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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,561

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    With you on the black toast. Great.

    Bizarrely, mother had a friend who had a large magician-style white rabbit that lived free-range in their house. It used to have a terrible temper in the mornings until it was placated with blackened toast.

    The great mystery was how they ever discovered this.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,994
    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    Hopefully before the explosion?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,526
    Sandpit said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    I don't think they can. We've seen quite a lot of Labour MPs talk about how important it was to not break the manifesto promises on tax. Just as they failed to make the change to winter fuel allowance stick, and MPs prevented the changes to PIP, I don't think there's a set of tax and spending changes to balance the budget that this PM and Chancellor can make that will pass the PLP.

    This budget will simply be the proof of it. Starmer has to go.

    A new PM will then have one chance - just one - to turn things around.
    Imagine the chaos that would ensue if Starmer couldn’t get their turkeys in Parliament to vote for the Christmas budget despite a majority of 150. Could we soon see a large group of former Labour MPs on the Opposition benches?
    They wouldn't vote for a rise in the basic rate of income tax, they likely will vote for the increase in tax on expensive properties which seems to be the likeliest outcome of the budget now
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,029

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    You can make cheese on toast if you put the toaster on it's side, a la the naked chef.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,585
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:
    That article argues that if you're going to suffer unpopularity, you might as well do something significant and worthwhile, that either delivers or allows you to afford some big compensating wins elsewhere. That is the argument for the 2p tax rise that almost woz.....
    It makes a good case for getting rid of the Triple Lock.

    We all know that it has to go at some point, and its not as if pensioners vote Labour.
    Just hike NI and all worries are over , that is the fair thing to do , make the workers pay.
    Typical lazy welfare parasite, just wanting working people to pay for their welfare.
    Hey Dumbo , I am working you stupid clown. Just don't have tyo pay NI as I have paid a fortune over 50 years unlike losers like yourself. Go push another pensioner over.
    Listen knucklehead, so by your own admission you are not on the same tax rate as others.

    And try and get this through your thick skull, but whatever 'fortune' you paid in past decades was already pissed away by your governments then. It was not get set aside to fund today.

    Indeed the taxes you paid then were not enough to cover expenditure then, let alone today, which is why we are burdened with so much interest now.
    I pay higher rate and get no tax allowance , how cretinous can you be. Fact those bozos are almost as dumb as you and unable to balance the books does not mean I should pay twice.
    Sorry knucklehead but you are not paying twice, you have not paid for future expenditure even once yet.

    All your taxes from the past are gone, spent. And then some. With interest, a mountain of interest from the shortfall.

    Your notion you should have a lower tax rate than someone earning the same today, because you paid taxes in the past that were insufficient to cover expenditure then, let alone be set aside for the future, is patently ignorant and absurd.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,526

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,084

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    Hopefully before the explosion?
    Thankfully while he was still trying to figure out the controls.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,334
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    I don't think they can. We've seen quite a lot of Labour MPs talk about how important it was to not break the manifesto promises on tax. Just as they failed to make the change to winter fuel allowance stick, and MPs prevented the changes to PIP, I don't think there's a set of tax and spending changes to balance the budget that this PM and Chancellor can make that will pass the PLP.

    This budget will simply be the proof of it. Starmer has to go.

    A new PM will then have one chance - just one - to turn things around.
    Imagine the chaos that would ensue if Starmer couldn’t get their turkeys in Parliament to vote for the Christmas budget despite a majority of 150. Could we soon see a large group of former Labour MPs on the Opposition benches?
    They wouldn't vote for a rise in the basic rate of income tax, they likely will vote for the increase in tax on expensive properties which seems to be the likeliest outcome of the budget now
    How expensive is expensive ?

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,336
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting. A flip to "flood the zone and publish it all" by Trump was one of the scenarios in the Rest is Politics US I linked yesterday.

    IMO that means a) He knows it's all coming out with GOP support and there is nothing he can do, b) He is not in the records as an offender and thinks the others will help triangulate, or c) He thinks he has successfully excluded his problems by censorship.

    Scaramucci said that it is also Trump being politically far better at setting agendas rather than being on the run responding to them. His mob has moved and he wants to be standing in front of it again.

    US President Donald Trump has urged lawmakers in his own party to vote to release files relating to the late convicted paedophile financier Jeffrey Epstein.

    Trump wrote on Sunday night that Republicans in the House of Representatives should do so "because we have nothing to hide".

    The reversal of his recent position follows a slow drip feed of documents concerning the disgraced financier by House Democrats, some of which reference Trump, who has always denied any link to Epstein's sex abuse and trafficking.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgv653v1vjo

    It’s a variant of (a). He knows the GOP was breaking ranks so he wants to be ahead of them rather than being seen as a loser. AIUI the senate can just not bring it to a vote anyway
    He also knows what he did and didn’t do, so must be pretty sure that what we’ve seen in the last few days is all that has Trump’s name on it directly.

    He’ll also know that the release of the files will be a bomb under the whole American political Establishment, with hundreds of politicans and political donors implicated from all sides. It’ll be the biggest news story of the year, and will run for weeks to the exclusion of pretty much anything else.
    What a dilemma! If Mr Trump figures in it, there'll be bad publicity, but if he doesn't it will suck up all the oxygen from his daily show.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,395

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trump says vote to release the Epstein files .

    Knowing that the sham investigation into Clinton and other Democrats will mean that they can’t be released.

    This sudden change of heart from Trump should fool no one .

    Very funny.

    Trump doesn't want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Trump does want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Indeed, start with OrangeManBad and work backwards, even if he’s exposing child abuse it’s still bad.
    Let's be honest though, no one in their right mind thinks any of this is about Trump exposing child abuse... or doing anything indeed apart from helping Trump.
    Oh of course, but it’s funny to see nearly everyone do a 180 on the subject depending on what the president’s last comment on it happened to be.

    Democrats in the US had almost nothing to say on Epstein for years, until they sensed a split within the Republicans.
    I suspect if the Dems had been more proactive regarding the Epstein files Trump would not have been elected President again.

    You probably have a point that the Dems were protecting their own by their inaction, but that doesn't absolve Trump of anything.
    There were some reasons why more wasn't done during Biden's presidency (not least, Maxwell's trial and appeal being ongoing), but it's true that many of the old Dem establishment seemed almost as ready as the GOP to bury the whole thing.

    The younger generation take rather more of a fiat justitia ruat caelum view.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,364

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trump says vote to release the Epstein files .

    Knowing that the sham investigation into Clinton and other Democrats will mean that they can’t be released.

    This sudden change of heart from Trump should fool no one .

    Very funny.

    Trump doesn't want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Trump does want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Indeed, start with OrangeManBad and work backwards, even if he’s exposing child abuse it’s still bad.
    Let's be honest though, no one in their right mind thinks any of this is about Trump exposing child abuse... or doing anything indeed apart from helping Trump.
    Oh of course, but it’s funny to see nearly everyone do a 180 on the subject depending on what the president’s last comment on it happened to be.

    Democrats in the US had almost nothing to say on Epstein for years, until they sensed a split within the Republicans.
    I suspect if the Dems had been more proactive regarding the Epstein files Trump would not have been elected President again.

    You probably have a point that the Dems were protecting their own by their inaction, but that doesn't absolve Trump of anything.
    Now obviously we don’t know exactly what’s in the FBI’s warehouse, but Trump must be pretty confident in himself that there’s nothing that can sink him.

    I’ve always thought that if there was something in there regarding Trump that was so bad as to be disqualifying, Biden’s DOJ would have found a way to get it out before the election.

    The full revelations will almost certainly bring down dozens of people involved in politics though, on all sides. It’s of note that most of the Congressmen and women voting to release the files are from the younger recent intakes, who were a lot less likely to have moved in Epstein’s circles when he was alive. Senators, governors, judges, and a lot of political donors, on the other hand…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,395
    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    Well, you could...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,437
    edited 9:43AM

    TOPPING said:

    Shocked face.

    At least 98 Palestinians have died in custody since October 2023, Israeli data shows

    Exclusive: Real toll likely substantially higher as hundreds of detainees from Gaza are missing, says NGO Physicians for Human Rights - Israel


    Israeli data shows at least 98 Palestinians have died in custody since October 2023, and the real toll is likely substantially higher because hundreds of people detained in Gaza are missing, an Israel-based human rights group has said.

    Physicians for Human Rights – Israel (PHRI) tracked deaths from causes including physical violence, medical neglect and malnutrition for a new report, using freedom of information requests, forensic reports and interviews with lawyers, activists, relatives and witnesses.

    Israeli authorities only provided comprehensive data for the first eight months of the war. Over this period official figures show an unprecedented casualty rate among Palestinian detainees, on average one death every four days.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/17/at-least-98-palestinians-have-died-in-custody-since-october-2023-israeli-data-shows

    Isn't it wonderful how such a diverse and tolerant society as Israel can include groups such as this, who disagree with the government's actions and call them out when they occur. Reminds me of that group in Gaza which does the same thing and campaigns against Hamas. What was its name, again? It eludes me. I'm sure it is on the tip of your tongue.
    I am not sure of your point. Although it must be a good one because someone liked it.

    I don't believe anyone here is flying the flag for Hamas who are a lawless death cult. I don't believe the opposition (or lack of it) to Hamas is measurable in terms set out by western opinion pollsters, and the data collection even more sketchy, but who knows?

    I would like to believe that a democratically elected government in a civilised country would operate to a more rigorous set of rules regarding the safety of civilians than Hamas does, and using United Nations guidance, even in the face of a lawless death cult.
    Of course. But first, we don't know whether, how, or why these prisoners died. And secondly, that was part of the point I was making. I mean Bloody Sunday enquiries and whatnot aside (more "whataboutery" I'm sure people will say, although again as BR as pointed out, it's also context), you yourself have said that Israel is fighting a "lawless death cult". If only such analysis had been brought to the 2-year conflict as you finally have alighted on here. Because usually that assessment is then followed by a "...but..." and then by criticisism of the Israelis.

    As you agree, Israel has both been fighting a lawless death cult for two years and also is being held to the highest account by its own domestic groups. What a place. Is all my first point observied.

    I'm delighted that we align on this.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,781
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Still 10 days until the Budget, how many more leaks are we going to get to the media out of the Treasury?

    I saw one yesterday which was the milkshake tax, a policy of removing the exemption from the Soft Drinks industry levy from milk shake products. It was sucking the bottom of the glass for me.
    What odds that Reeves breaks out in song mid speech?:

    "My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
    And they're like it's better than yours
    Damn right, it's better than yours
    I could teach you, but I'd have to charge"
    "Neighbours—everybody needs good neighbours.
    Just a friendly wave each morning helps to make a better day.
    Neighbours need to get to know each other.
    Next door is only a footstep away.
    Neighbours—everybody needs good neighbours.
    With a little understanding, you can find a perfect blend.
    Neighbours should be there for one another.
    That's when good neighbours become good friends."

    — John Smith (Shadow Chancellor) in 1989 on tensions between Numbers 10 and 11.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,797
    edited 9:46AM

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trump says vote to release the Epstein files .

    Knowing that the sham investigation into Clinton and other Democrats will mean that they can’t be released.

    This sudden change of heart from Trump should fool no one .

    Very funny.

    Trump doesn't want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Trump does want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Indeed, start with OrangeManBad and work backwards, even if he’s exposing child abuse it’s still bad.
    Let's be honest though, no one in their right mind thinks any of this is about Trump exposing child abuse... or doing anything indeed apart from helping Trump.
    Oh of course, but it’s funny to see nearly everyone do a 180 on the subject depending on what the president’s last comment on it happened to be.

    Democrats in the US had almost nothing to say on Epstein for years, until they sensed a split within the Republicans.
    I suspect if the Dems had been more proactive regarding the Epstein files Trump would not have been elected President again.

    You probably have a point that the Dems were protecting their own by their inaction, but that doesn't absolve Trump of anything.
    A different angle is that there were severe doubts about prosecuting Trump for his stealing of top secret material in Florida.

    They knew that there was a 20% chance of getting Aileen Cannon (spelling?) in the District of South Florida, and that she was a corrupt Judge who would manipulate things to protect Trump. There was repeated advice to that effect at a multitude of meetings.

    The alternative was prosecution in Washington DC.

    Jack Smith made the Florida decision, rolled the die and lost. And also treated Trump with exaggerated respect. They could have arrested him on the spot when they found the tranche of stolen top secret material.

    The rest is history.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,905
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trump says vote to release the Epstein files .

    Knowing that the sham investigation into Clinton and other Democrats will mean that they can’t be released.

    This sudden change of heart from Trump should fool no one .

    Very funny.

    Trump doesn't want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Trump does want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Indeed, start with OrangeManBad and work backwards, even if he’s exposing child abuse it’s still bad.
    Let's be honest though, no one in their right mind thinks any of this is about Trump exposing child abuse... or doing anything indeed apart from helping Trump.
    Oh of course, but it’s funny to see nearly everyone do a 180 on the subject depending on what the president’s last comment on it happened to be.

    Democrats in the US had almost nothing to say on Epstein for years, until they sensed a split within the Republicans.
    I suspect if the Dems had been more proactive regarding the Epstein files Trump would not have been elected President again.

    You probably have a point that the Dems were protecting their own by their inaction, but that doesn't absolve Trump of anything.
    Now obviously we don’t know exactly what’s in the FBI’s warehouse, but Trump must be pretty confident in himself that there’s nothing that can sink him.

    I’ve always thought that if there was something in there regarding Trump that was so bad as to be disqualifying, Biden’s DOJ would have found a way to get it out before the election.

    The full revelations will almost certainly bring down dozens of people involved in politics though, on all sides. It’s of note that most of the Congressmen and women voting to release the files are from the younger recent intakes, who were a lot less likely to have moved in Epstein’s circles when he was alive. Senators, governors, judges, and a lot of political donors, on the other hand…
    Yes, this sounds like a juicy can of worms about to be opened.

    Popcorn, anyone?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,526

    Fpt

    Foxy said:
    Marjorie Taylor Southam!

    Tim ex of PB is still on board I think, but he cuts a sad figure on twitter nowadays, tilting exclusively at Len McClusky, Zarah, Jezza etc. Can’t remember the last time he had a go at a Tory.
    Coincidentally I drove through Southam last week. The mean streets are liberally adorned with patriotic flags. With Kenilworth trending Green, Sir Jeremy Wright could have better prospects in Coventry South next time.
    There is zero chance Kenilworth would vote for Marxist Polanski nor would it vote for Farage unlike Coventry South
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,994
    edited 9:47AM
    It's a strange expression really: "He's toast"

    In my book toast is a massive improvement on stale bread.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,437
    In fact I'm liking @Mexicanpete's take on it all and in the spirit of PB I will suggest a new game for I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue.

    The challenge is to fill in the bit after the "but" which must include criticism of the Israelis.

    I'll start.

    "Israel is fighting a lawless death cult which murders its domestic enemies and launched an horrific attack on civilians on October 7th, killing over a thousand people and taking hundreds hostage, but..."
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,797
    edited 9:53AM

    It's a strange expression really: "He's toast"

    In my book toast is a massive improvement on stale bread.

    The popularity may be down to Ghostbusters:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Yx4dhulh0

    And it has many uses:
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,437
    Speaking of the Orange One, has anyone read his peace plan for Gaza. Does it make any sense.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,994
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trump says vote to release the Epstein files .

    Knowing that the sham investigation into Clinton and other Democrats will mean that they can’t be released.

    This sudden change of heart from Trump should fool no one .

    Very funny.

    Trump doesn't want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Trump does want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Indeed, start with OrangeManBad and work backwards, even if he’s exposing child abuse it’s still bad.
    Let's be honest though, no one in their right mind thinks any of this is about Trump exposing child abuse... or doing anything indeed apart from helping Trump.
    Oh of course, but it’s funny to see nearly everyone do a 180 on the subject depending on what the president’s last comment on it happened to be.

    Democrats in the US had almost nothing to say on Epstein for years, until they sensed a split within the Republicans.
    I suspect if the Dems had been more proactive regarding the Epstein files Trump would not have been elected President again.

    You probably have a point that the Dems were protecting their own by their inaction, but that doesn't absolve Trump of anything.
    There were some reasons why more wasn't done during Biden's presidency (not least, Maxwell's trial and appeal being ongoing), but it's true that many of the old Dem establishment seemed almost as ready as the GOP to bury the whole thing.

    The younger generation take rather more of a fiat justitia ruat caelum view.
    Made slightly easier by the fact that none of them will have ever had any contact with Epstein.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,526
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:
    That article argues that if you're going to suffer unpopularity, you might as well do something significant and worthwhile, that either delivers or allows you to afford some big compensating wins elsewhere. That is the argument for the 2p tax rise that almost woz.....
    It makes a good case for getting rid of the Triple Lock.

    We all know that it has to go at some point, and its not as if pensioners vote Labour.
    The state pension is below minimum wage, there may be a case for means testing it but not ending it completely
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,781
    Nigelb said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    Well, you could...
    But only once. Never *reheat* an unopened jar of pasta sauce in a microwave is a sound principle to live by, even after you've swept up all the bits.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,319
    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trump says vote to release the Epstein files .

    Knowing that the sham investigation into Clinton and other Democrats will mean that they can’t be released.

    This sudden change of heart from Trump should fool no one .

    Very funny.

    Trump doesn't want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Trump does want to release the files: PB in uproar
    PB never fails to amuse.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,437
    Speaking of the budget and Lab, I was of the opinion that despite the ups and downs of sentiment and the polls, no one was going anywhere until 2029, at which point it is likely that we will get another five years of the same.

    Now, I am not so sure. Lab ofc proverbially do not defenestrate their leaders but (Israel's response has been overwhelmingly evil and - oops sorry, I saw a "but" and launched in). But, there are now so many rumours and briefings and so forth that I think they might do the unthinkable and get rid of Starmer. I still am not at the backing that course of action stage.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,334
    HYUFD said:

    Fpt

    Foxy said:
    Marjorie Taylor Southam!

    Tim ex of PB is still on board I think, but he cuts a sad figure on twitter nowadays, tilting exclusively at Len McClusky, Zarah, Jezza etc. Can’t remember the last time he had a go at a Tory.
    Coincidentally I drove through Southam last week. The mean streets are liberally adorned with patriotic flags. With Kenilworth trending Green, Sir Jeremy Wright could have better prospects in Coventry South next time.
    There is zero chance Kenilworth would vote for Marxist Polanski nor would it vote for Farage unlike Coventry South
    Villages like Stoneleigh, Bubbenhall, Princethorpe and Ryton are probably some of the last Tory holdouts in the Midlands.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,752
    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    What an idiot! That wouldn't be a good meal. One would need to also microwave an unopened packet of pasta.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,319

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    I guess he could have put the toaster on its side 😉
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,797
    Selebian said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    What an idiot! That wouldn't be a good meal. One would need to also microwave an unopened packet of pasta.
    Goose Egg.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,319
    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:
    That article argues that if you're going to suffer unpopularity, you might as well do something significant and worthwhile, that either delivers or allows you to afford some big compensating wins elsewhere. That is the argument for the 2p tax rise that almost woz.....

    2p on income tax gives this Government money to spend. Pick a few projects, get spades in the ground and people will appreciate it and provided their area improves a bit vote for the party in power...
    Yes it would but it won’t happen as she won’t get it past her backbenchers and the highly influential Lucy Powell has refused to accept it too.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,394
    HYUFD said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
    I have rewatched the end of Truss over the weekend when mulling over the state of Starmer.

    Fascinating to watch the winding up of the fracking debate. The minister proudly boasts about how the Conservatives had massively developed renewable energy. Because its right for Britain and puts us in a good place for the future.

    Whatever happened to the Conservative Party? Even at its zenith of loopyness it was still better grounded in reality than Badenoch's mob.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,334
    With tax thresholds seemingly frozen it seems inevitable (Not this budget) that the state pension will go above the (normal) PA.

    So does Starmer, Streeting or 'our Ang'

    a) Do a pensioners carve out on the PA
    b) Deduct tax at source
    c) Explicitly ditch the triple lock
    d) Require pensioners to do self assessment

    Answers on a postcard :)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,781
    HYUFD said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
    That was not Liz Truss's problem. It was that before cutting taxes, she bypassed the institutional safeguards, the ‘adults in the room’. This told the markets that there must be something toxic hidden in the budget that the Treasury and OBR would not have passed.

    It is the Truss market meltdown that means Reeves won't so much as cross the road without OBR's approval, even though its economic forecasts swing so wildly as to discredit that body.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,416

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    Toast remains at rest, or in motion at a constant speed in a straight line, unless it is acted upon by a force.

    I think we can all agree on that.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,084
    Selebian said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    What an idiot! That wouldn't be a good meal. One would need to also microwave an unopened packet of pasta.
    When I say unopened, I don't just mean metal lid firmly on, I mean plastic seal unbroken.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,797
    edited 10:01AM
    Brain Trust.

    So the new Macbook has arrived. (13.6", 16/256 Gb, £699).

    It's a normal Apple thing - some things superb, and others a blast from the past. For some reason they still require me to plug their "Magic Mouse" into USB in order to charge it. Which reminds me of the One Button Mouse that they maintained for years and years, because Steve Jobs was a purist and practicality and utility could go hang.

    But I need recommendations for a suitable carrying / slip case. I probably want one with hard sides as small as possible around the Macbook, to give good protection. Any advice will be welcome.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,994
    TOPPING said:

    In fact I'm liking @Mexicanpete's take on it all and in the spirit of PB I will suggest a new game for I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue.

    The challenge is to fill in the bit after the "but" which must include criticism of the Israelis.

    I'll start.

    "Israel is fighting a lawless death cult which murders its domestic enemies and launched an horrific attack on civilians on October 7th, killing over a thousand people and taking hundreds hostage, but..."

    "... none of Israel's actions will prevent a future similar event."

    "... in return Israel has killed nearly 70,000 Palestinians, so which is the major offender?"

    "... Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saw it as a wonderful opportunity to delay his corruption trial."
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,319
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fpt

    Foxy said:
    Marjorie Taylor Southam!

    Tim ex of PB is still on board I think, but he cuts a sad figure on twitter nowadays, tilting exclusively at Len McClusky, Zarah, Jezza etc. Can’t remember the last time he had a go at a Tory.
    Coincidentally I drove through Southam last week. The mean streets are liberally adorned with patriotic flags. With Kenilworth trending Green, Sir Jeremy Wright could have better prospects in Coventry South next time.
    There is zero chance Kenilworth would vote for Marxist Polanski nor would it vote for Farage unlike Coventry South
    Villages like Stoneleigh, Bubbenhall, Princethorpe and Ryton are probably some of the last Tory holdouts in the Midlands.
    A company I used to work for had a place on Stoneleigh Deer Park.

    Most plush for the great and the good. We proles had a unit on on industrial estate.

    When visiting the instructions included a request to drive slowly for fear of hitting one of the many bunny rabbits who resided in the grounds.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,882
    Taz said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    I guess he could have put the toaster on its side 😉
    Don't be silly, attaching the cheese to the bread with rubber bands is the obvious solution.
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 505
    A few days ago, some people on here were discussing councillor defections. In case it is of any interest, here is the link to my latest observations and statistics on the subject.

    https://liberalengland.blogspot.com/2025/11/guest-post-reform-are-still-gaining.html

    My methodology is just as likely to be wrong as anyone else's, but I think I have given a realistic summary of the situation over the last few months. E&OE, and DYOR.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,428
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Shocked face.

    At least 98 Palestinians have died in custody since October 2023, Israeli data shows

    Exclusive: Real toll likely substantially higher as hundreds of detainees from Gaza are missing, says NGO Physicians for Human Rights - Israel


    Israeli data shows at least 98 Palestinians have died in custody since October 2023, and the real toll is likely substantially higher because hundreds of people detained in Gaza are missing, an Israel-based human rights group has said.

    Physicians for Human Rights – Israel (PHRI) tracked deaths from causes including physical violence, medical neglect and malnutrition for a new report, using freedom of information requests, forensic reports and interviews with lawyers, activists, relatives and witnesses.

    Israeli authorities only provided comprehensive data for the first eight months of the war. Over this period official figures show an unprecedented casualty rate among Palestinian detainees, on average one death every four days.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/17/at-least-98-palestinians-have-died-in-custody-since-october-2023-israeli-data-shows

    Isn't it wonderful how such a diverse and tolerant society as Israel can include groups such as this, who disagree with the government's actions and call them out when they occur. Reminds me of that group in Gaza which does the same thing and campaigns against Hamas. What was its name, again? It eludes me. I'm sure it is on the tip of your tongue.
    Why is every response to a report of Israeli wrongdoing a piece of whataboutery ?
    An exception. An honest Israeli

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNJbNCCejvg&t=14
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,797
    Pulpstar said:

    With tax thresholds seemingly frozen it seems inevitable (Not this budget) that the state pension will go above the (normal) PA.

    So does Starmer, Streeting or 'our Ang'

    a) Do a pensioners carve out on the PA
    b) Deduct tax at source
    c) Explicitly ditch the triple lock
    d) Require pensioners to do self assessment

    Answers on a postcard :)

    Establishes the Personal Allowance at the pension threshold.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,774
    edited 10:06AM
    Pulpstar said:

    With tax thresholds seemingly frozen it seems inevitable (Not this budget) that the state pension will go above the (normal) PA.

    So does Starmer, Streeting or 'our Ang'

    a) Do a pensioners carve out on the PA
    b) Deduct tax at source
    c) Explicitly ditch the triple lock
    d) Require pensioners to do self assessment

    Answers on a postcard :)

    a) seems the easiest but will be expensive over time. Even if the triple lock is ditched, any sort of increase to the full new state pension in 2027 will push it past the personal allowance of £12,570 given the 2026 pension will be around £12,500.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,788
    edited 10:04AM
    Sandpit said:

    FF43 said:

    "Small boat migrants to have jewellery & assets seized to pay for accommodation as part of Home Sec’s arrivals crackdown"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37340079/migrants-jewellery-seized-accommodation/

    Taking the jewellery from those sent to the gas chambers vibes.

    Must be a vote winner.
    Imagine the reaction from Labour, if Farage or anyone in the last government had made the same suggestion.
    Labour in government have always been pretty authoritarian, probably more so than the average UK HMG. In opposition they are much more liberal but the liberal voices never get appointed to the Home Office or Justice roles.

    From here, I think most of the new suggestions are sensible but wary of the jewellery and assets one. Depending on the detail it could be just about be ok - someone coming into the country with £100k+ shouldn't be subsidised by the state, whereas someone with a family heirloom wedding ring worth £2k shouldn't have to give it up.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,282

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:
    That article argues that if you're going to suffer unpopularity, you might as well do something significant and worthwhile, that either delivers or allows you to afford some big compensating wins elsewhere. That is the argument for the 2p tax rise that almost woz.....
    It makes a good case for getting rid of the Triple Lock.

    We all know that it has to go at some point, and its not as if pensioners vote Labour.
    Just hike NI and all worries are over , that is the fair thing to do , make the workers pay.
    Typical lazy welfare parasite, just wanting working people to pay for their welfare.
    Hey Dumbo , I am working you stupid clown. Just don't have tyo pay NI as I have paid a fortune over 50 years unlike losers like yourself. Go push another pensioner over.
    Listen knucklehead, so by your own admission you are not on the same tax rate as others.

    And try and get this through your thick skull, but whatever 'fortune' you paid in past decades was already pissed away by your governments then. It was not get set aside to fund today.

    Indeed the taxes you paid then were not enough to cover expenditure then, let alone today, which is why we are burdened with so much interest now.
    I pay higher rate and get no tax allowance , how cretinous can you be. Fact those bozos are almost as dumb as you and unable to balance the books does not mean I should pay twice.
    Great insult and counter-insult from Dumbo and Knucklehead there. Brightened my day at least.

    (For what it's worth, I'm with Dumbo on this one; sorry Knucklehead.)
    Hard to take in Ben , I will forgive you as you sometimes post sensible stuff , Dumbo is irretreivable and even his village would prefer someone else's idiot to come back rather than him.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,994
    edited 10:04AM
    Pulpstar said:

    With tax thresholds seemingly frozen it seems inevitable (Not this budget) that the state pension will go above the (normal) PA.

    So does Starmer, Streeting or 'our Ang'

    a) Do a pensioners carve out on the PA
    b) Deduct tax at source
    c) Explicitly ditch the triple lock
    d) Require pensioners to do self assessment

    Answers on a postcard :)

    b) Would be the obvious answer. Why on earth HMRC requires every income provider except the DWP to be able to deduct PAYE is utterly baffling.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,227

    HYUFD said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
    I have rewatched the end of Truss over the weekend when mulling over the state of Starmer.

    Fascinating to watch the winding up of the fracking debate. The minister proudly boasts about how the Conservatives had massively developed renewable energy. Because its right for Britain and puts us in a good place for the future.

    Whatever happened to the Conservative Party? Even at its zenith of loopyness it was still better grounded in reality than Badenoch's mob.
    One thing occurs. When Thatcher and Howe took over in 1979 there was a budget deficit and high inflation. They choose to try to squeeze inflation out of the system which eventually led to a strong upturn in the economy, although not without an awful lot of pain en route. The deficit was definitely a BAD thing and should be avoided.

    Now we have been living with deficits for decades and arguably it has become normalised. In some ways its the same a the availability of cheap credit to all of us. Want that new car? Credit makes it happen. Want that new phone? Stick it on your credit card. Etc etc.

    Have our politicians just come to accept that deficits don't really matter? Is that why no-one is ever serious about getting rid of them?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,364

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trump says vote to release the Epstein files .

    Knowing that the sham investigation into Clinton and other Democrats will mean that they can’t be released.

    This sudden change of heart from Trump should fool no one .

    Very funny.

    Trump doesn't want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Trump does want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Indeed, start with OrangeManBad and work backwards, even if he’s exposing child abuse it’s still bad.
    Let's be honest though, no one in their right mind thinks any of this is about Trump exposing child abuse... or doing anything indeed apart from helping Trump.
    Oh of course, but it’s funny to see nearly everyone do a 180 on the subject depending on what the president’s last comment on it happened to be.

    Democrats in the US had almost nothing to say on Epstein for years, until they sensed a split within the Republicans.
    I suspect if the Dems had been more proactive regarding the Epstein files Trump would not have been elected President again.

    You probably have a point that the Dems were protecting their own by their inaction, but that doesn't absolve Trump of anything.
    Now obviously we don’t know exactly what’s in the FBI’s warehouse, but Trump must be pretty confident in himself that there’s nothing that can sink him.

    I’ve always thought that if there was something in there regarding Trump that was so bad as to be disqualifying, Biden’s DOJ would have found a way to get it out before the election.

    The full revelations will almost certainly bring down dozens of people involved in politics though, on all sides. It’s of note that most of the Congressmen and women voting to release the files are from the younger recent intakes, who were a lot less likely to have moved in Epstein’s circles when he was alive. Senators, governors, judges, and a lot of political donors, on the other hand…
    Yes, this sounds like a juicy can of worms about to be opened.

    Popcorn, anyone?
    Given what happened to the Andrew formerly known as Prince, which started with one harmless-looking photo, there’s going to be a lot of Americans (and others) very nervous about what might be about to be made public.

    Wealthy people who thought they were too well-connected to ever end up in trouble, who had paid off the right movers and fixers over the decades.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,788
    Pulpstar said:

    With tax thresholds seemingly frozen it seems inevitable (Not this budget) that the state pension will go above the (normal) PA.

    So does Starmer, Streeting or 'our Ang'

    a) Do a pensioners carve out on the PA
    b) Deduct tax at source
    c) Explicitly ditch the triple lock
    d) Require pensioners to do self assessment

    Answers on a postcard :)

    If its a few hundred pounds they will just raise the tax threshold for everyone.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,585
    MattW said:

    It's a strange expression really: "He's toast"

    In my book toast is a massive improvement on stale bread.

    The popularity may be down to Ghostbusters:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Yx4dhulh0

    And it has many uses:
    Not only is it down to Ghostbusters, but its another instance where that wasn't even the line in the script and he ad libbed it.

    Now it is everyday usage.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,437

    TOPPING said:

    In fact I'm liking @Mexicanpete's take on it all and in the spirit of PB I will suggest a new game for I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue.

    The challenge is to fill in the bit after the "but" which must include criticism of the Israelis.

    I'll start.

    "Israel is fighting a lawless death cult which murders its domestic enemies and launched an horrific attack on civilians on October 7th, killing over a thousand people and taking hundreds hostage, but..."

    "... none of Israel's actions will prevent a future similar event."

    "... in return Israel has killed nearly 70,000 Palestinians, so which is the major offender?"

    "... Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saw it as a wonderful opportunity to delay his corruption trial."
    Bingo! Humph would have been proud of you. And all, in keeping with the programme, very funny with little seriousness to any of the entries.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,819

    Pulpstar said:

    With tax thresholds seemingly frozen it seems inevitable (Not this budget) that the state pension will go above the (normal) PA.

    So does Starmer, Streeting or 'our Ang'

    a) Do a pensioners carve out on the PA
    b) Deduct tax at source
    c) Explicitly ditch the triple lock
    d) Require pensioners to do self assessment

    Answers on a postcard :)

    b) Would be the obvious answer. Why on earth HMRC requires every income provider except the DWP to be able to deduct PAYE is utterly baffling.
    I imagine that because it is universal to an identifiable group and state pension is relatively well managed the reason for not deducting IT at source on a PAYE basis is (1) that for millions they don't fall into IT anyway, so they would have to reclaim it, and (2) as it is universal it simply counts conveniently for everyone as the foundation of the personal allowance for almost everyone.

    I don't think there is any possibility of the treasury/HMRC allowing millions of pensions to be paid either liable to a small amount of tax, or tax deducted and 20 million P60s having to be generated for everyone.

    Either a carve out for max state pension, or threshold to rise in line is most likely.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,364
    MattW said:

    Brain Trust.

    So the new Macbook has arrived. (13.6", 16/256 Gb, £699).

    It's a normal Apple thing - some things superb, and others a blast from the past. For some reason they still require me to plug their "Magic Mouse" into USB in order to charge it. Which reminds me of the One Button Mouse that they maintained for years and years, because Steve Jobs was a purist and practicality and utility could go hang.

    But I need recommendations for a suitable carrying / slip case. I probably want one with hard sides as small as possible around the Macbook, to give good protection. Any advice will be welcome.

    Don’t buy one of the plastic clip-on hard cases which attach to the frame. They can lead to the device overheating, pressure on the screen surround, additional weight on the hinges etc. which cause failures.

    https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/should-you-really-put-a-hardshell-case-on-your-macbook/
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,585
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    I guess he could have put the toaster on its side 😉
    Don't be silly, attaching the cheese to the bread with rubber bands is the obvious solution.
    If it’s a mild cheddar would anyone notice the difference ?
    If it is American cheese, it might improve the taste.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,951
    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    Hope he wasn't doing Chemical Engineering.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,336
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    I guess he could have put the toaster on its side 😉
    Don't be silly, attaching the cheese to the bread with rubber bands is the obvious solution.
    If it’s a mild cheddar would anyone notice the difference ?
    Yes because burnt rubber doesn't taste like cheese. At least, I doubt it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,282

    Pulpstar said:

    With tax thresholds seemingly frozen it seems inevitable (Not this budget) that the state pension will go above the (normal) PA.

    So does Starmer, Streeting or 'our Ang'

    a) Do a pensioners carve out on the PA
    b) Deduct tax at source
    c) Explicitly ditch the triple lock
    d) Require pensioners to do self assessment

    Answers on a postcard :)

    b) Would be the obvious answer. Why on earth HMRC requires every income provider except the DWP to be able to deduct PAYE is utterly baffling.
    Criminal that benefits are not taxed
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,319

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    I guess he could have put the toaster on its side 😉
    Don't be silly, attaching the cheese to the bread with rubber bands is the obvious solution.
    If it’s a mild cheddar would anyone notice the difference ?
    If it is American cheese, it might improve the taste.
    God yes, Monterrey Jack is beyond redemption.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,017

    HYUFD said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
    I have rewatched the end of Truss over the weekend when mulling over the state of Starmer.

    Fascinating to watch the winding up of the fracking debate. The minister proudly boasts about how the Conservatives had massively developed renewable energy. Because its right for Britain and puts us in a good place for the future.

    Whatever happened to the Conservative Party? Even at its zenith of loopyness it was still better grounded in reality than Badenoch's mob.
    One thing occurs. When Thatcher and Howe took over in 1979 there was a budget deficit and high inflation. They choose to try to squeeze inflation out of the system which eventually led to a strong upturn in the economy, although not without an awful lot of pain en route. The deficit was definitely a BAD thing and should be avoided.

    Now we have been living with deficits for decades and arguably it has become normalised. In some ways its the same a the availability of cheap credit to all of us. Want that new car? Credit makes it happen. Want that new phone? Stick it on your credit card. Etc etc.

    Have our politicians just come to accept that deficits don't really matter? Is that why no-one is ever serious about getting rid of them?
    What Osborne established is that the markets are mollified by a barely credible plan to cut the deficit (to some extent) in the future, but that future can (at least at the moment) be put off indefinitely.

    What this achieves for the markets is that the deficit is kept under a degree of control, and there's at least an outline sketch of how Britain would get the budget back into balance if it ever really needed to. The thing with markets is that, at the end of the day, it's all a matter of confidence. As long as they remain confident in Britain's ability to pay them back, then it doesn't matter, but Britain has to keep up some degree of pretence that it matters to retain that confidence.

    So we have a situation that can fall apart very rapidly - as Truss/Kwarteng discovered - but provided Britain doesn't wilfully throw itself from the top of the cliff, it provides the latitude to borrow more than £150bn (~5% of GDP) a year. Shame that Britain isn't getting much in return for that borrowing.

    Quiz Question: How many years has Britain run a surplus since WWII, and how many years each for Labour/Conservatives?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,227
    Battlebus said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    Hope he wasn't doing Chemical Engineering.
    Its ok - if he was a newbie. If he was a PhD student then yes...
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,084
    Battlebus said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    Hope he wasn't doing Chemical Engineering.
    Law, of all things...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,797
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trump says vote to release the Epstein files .

    Knowing that the sham investigation into Clinton and other Democrats will mean that they can’t be released.

    This sudden change of heart from Trump should fool no one .

    Very funny.

    Trump doesn't want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Trump does want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Indeed, start with OrangeManBad and work backwards, even if he’s exposing child abuse it’s still bad.
    Let's be honest though, no one in their right mind thinks any of this is about Trump exposing child abuse... or doing anything indeed apart from helping Trump.
    Oh of course, but it’s funny to see nearly everyone do a 180 on the subject depending on what the president’s last comment on it happened to be.

    Democrats in the US had almost nothing to say on Epstein for years, until they sensed a split within the Republicans.
    I suspect if the Dems had been more proactive regarding the Epstein files Trump would not have been elected President again.

    You probably have a point that the Dems were protecting their own by their inaction, but that doesn't absolve Trump of anything.
    Now obviously we don’t know exactly what’s in the FBI’s warehouse, but Trump must be pretty confident in himself that there’s nothing that can sink him.

    I’ve always thought that if there was something in there regarding Trump that was so bad as to be disqualifying, Biden’s DOJ would have found a way to get it out before the election.

    The full revelations will almost certainly bring down dozens of people involved in politics though, on all sides. It’s of note that most of the Congressmen and women voting to release the files are from the younger recent intakes, who were a lot less likely to have moved in Epstein’s circles when he was alive. Senators, governors, judges, and a lot of political donors, on the other hand…
    Yes, this sounds like a juicy can of worms about to be opened.

    Popcorn, anyone?
    Given what happened to the Andrew formerly known as Prince, which started with one harmless-looking photo, there’s going to be a lot of Americans (and others) very nervous about what might be about to be made public.

    Wealthy people who thought they were too well-connected to ever end up in trouble, who had paid off the right movers and fixers over the decades.
    There are also issues around banks who distributed his criminal money without reporting, are there not?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,994
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:
    That article argues that if you're going to suffer unpopularity, you might as well do something significant and worthwhile, that either delivers or allows you to afford some big compensating wins elsewhere. That is the argument for the 2p tax rise that almost woz.....
    It makes a good case for getting rid of the Triple Lock.

    We all know that it has to go at some point, and its not as if pensioners vote Labour.
    The state pension is below minimum wage, there may be a case for means testing it but not ending it completely
    ...but well above Universal Credit (£230.25 pw versus £92.34 pw).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,227
    AnneJGP said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    I guess he could have put the toaster on its side 😉
    Don't be silly, attaching the cheese to the bread with rubber bands is the obvious solution.
    If it’s a mild cheddar would anyone notice the difference ?
    Yes because burnt rubber doesn't taste like cheese. At least, I doubt it.
    Secret confession as we are all friends on PB - I love the crunchy cheese that's been melted and then cooled down from a toasted sandwich.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,319
    edited 10:23AM
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    With tax thresholds seemingly frozen it seems inevitable (Not this budget) that the state pension will go above the (normal) PA.

    So does Starmer, Streeting or 'our Ang'

    a) Do a pensioners carve out on the PA
    b) Deduct tax at source
    c) Explicitly ditch the triple lock
    d) Require pensioners to do self assessment

    Answers on a postcard :)

    b) Would be the obvious answer. Why on earth HMRC requires every income provider except the DWP to be able to deduct PAYE is utterly baffling.
    Criminal that benefits are not taxed
    Certainly above the personal allowance level and we will see a big increase, several billion, when the 2 child limit is removed to ‘fight poverty’ which is an arbitrary measure based on 60% of the national average income rather than tangible measures. So poverty will only be eradicated by wage compression towards the average.

    https://news.sky.com/story/inside-the-town-where-6-out-of-7-children-grow-up-in-poverty-and-live-in-fear-of-homelessness-13470171
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,146
    F1: chance of rain this weekend. On a circuit already notorious for low grip in the dry, could make things a bit chaotic.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,258
    Lovely and sunny, but cold
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,394

    HYUFD said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
    I have rewatched the end of Truss over the weekend when mulling over the state of Starmer.

    Fascinating to watch the winding up of the fracking debate. The minister proudly boasts about how the Conservatives had massively developed renewable energy. Because its right for Britain and puts us in a good place for the future.

    Whatever happened to the Conservative Party? Even at its zenith of loopyness it was still better grounded in reality than Badenoch's mob.
    One thing occurs. When Thatcher and Howe took over in 1979 there was a budget deficit and high inflation. They choose to try to squeeze inflation out of the system which eventually led to a strong upturn in the economy, although not without an awful lot of pain en route. The deficit was definitely a BAD thing and should be avoided.

    Now we have been living with deficits for decades and arguably it has become normalised. In some ways its the same a the availability of cheap credit to all of us. Want that new car? Credit makes it happen. Want that new phone? Stick it on your credit card. Etc etc.

    Have our politicians just come to accept that deficits don't really matter? Is that why no-one is ever serious about getting rid of them?
    The global economy doesn't expect sovereign debt to be repaid, only refinanced.

    We absolutely could borrow to invest in capex. Our problem is that we have stopped doing capex projects and we're borrowing to pay the in year costs of our declining economy.

    Borrow to invest? Return on investment, economy grows. Borrow for a black hole? More debt, economy slows. So of course we're doing the latter. We need to invest our way out of the hole...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,364
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trump says vote to release the Epstein files .

    Knowing that the sham investigation into Clinton and other Democrats will mean that they can’t be released.

    This sudden change of heart from Trump should fool no one .

    Very funny.

    Trump doesn't want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Trump does want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Indeed, start with OrangeManBad and work backwards, even if he’s exposing child abuse it’s still bad.
    Let's be honest though, no one in their right mind thinks any of this is about Trump exposing child abuse... or doing anything indeed apart from helping Trump.
    Oh of course, but it’s funny to see nearly everyone do a 180 on the subject depending on what the president’s last comment on it happened to be.

    Democrats in the US had almost nothing to say on Epstein for years, until they sensed a split within the Republicans.
    I suspect if the Dems had been more proactive regarding the Epstein files Trump would not have been elected President again.

    You probably have a point that the Dems were protecting their own by their inaction, but that doesn't absolve Trump of anything.
    Now obviously we don’t know exactly what’s in the FBI’s warehouse, but Trump must be pretty confident in himself that there’s nothing that can sink him.

    I’ve always thought that if there was something in there regarding Trump that was so bad as to be disqualifying, Biden’s DOJ would have found a way to get it out before the election.

    The full revelations will almost certainly bring down dozens of people involved in politics though, on all sides. It’s of note that most of the Congressmen and women voting to release the files are from the younger recent intakes, who were a lot less likely to have moved in Epstein’s circles when he was alive. Senators, governors, judges, and a lot of political donors, on the other hand…
    Yes, this sounds like a juicy can of worms about to be opened.

    Popcorn, anyone?
    Given what happened to the Andrew formerly known as Prince, which started with one harmless-looking photo, there’s going to be a lot of Americans (and others) very nervous about what might be about to be made public.

    Wealthy people who thought they were too well-connected to ever end up in trouble, who had paid off the right movers and fixers over the decades.
    There are also issues around banks who distributed his criminal money without reporting, are there not?
    Potentially yes, there’s one large bank under investigation for a lack of due diligence to the money coming in and going out of his accounts.

    https://www.npr.org/2025/09/09/nx-s1-5535548/how-j-p-morgan-enabled-jeffrey-epstein
  • eekeek Posts: 31,929

    F1: chance of rain this weekend. On a circuit already notorious for low grip in the dry, could make things a bit chaotic.

    Also cold - think temperature will be 6-8 degrees, keeping tyres warm will be fun
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,913
    Roger said:


    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Shocked face.

    At least 98 Palestinians have died in custody since October 2023, Israeli data shows

    Exclusive: Real toll likely substantially higher as hundreds of detainees from Gaza are missing, says NGO Physicians for Human Rights - Israel


    Israeli data shows at least 98 Palestinians have died in custody since October 2023, and the real toll is likely substantially higher because hundreds of people detained in Gaza are missing, an Israel-based human rights group has said.

    Physicians for Human Rights – Israel (PHRI) tracked deaths from causes including physical violence, medical neglect and malnutrition for a new report, using freedom of information requests, forensic reports and interviews with lawyers, activists, relatives and witnesses.

    Israeli authorities only provided comprehensive data for the first eight months of the war. Over this period official figures show an unprecedented casualty rate among Palestinian detainees, on average one death every four days.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/17/at-least-98-palestinians-have-died-in-custody-since-october-2023-israeli-data-shows

    Isn't it wonderful how such a diverse and tolerant society as Israel can include groups such as this, who disagree with the government's actions and call them out when they occur. Reminds me of that group in Gaza which does the same thing and campaigns against Hamas. What was its name, again? It eludes me. I'm sure it is on the tip of your tongue.
    Why is every response to a report of Israeli wrongdoing a piece of whataboutery ?
    An exception. An honest Israeli

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNJbNCCejvg&t=14
    Singling out an entire population (save one) as dishonest? Hmmm. What would you call me if I did that for any other country?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,994
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    With tax thresholds seemingly frozen it seems inevitable (Not this budget) that the state pension will go above the (normal) PA.

    So does Starmer, Streeting or 'our Ang'

    a) Do a pensioners carve out on the PA
    b) Deduct tax at source
    c) Explicitly ditch the triple lock
    d) Require pensioners to do self assessment

    Answers on a postcard :)

    b) Would be the obvious answer. Why on earth HMRC requires every income provider except the DWP to be able to deduct PAYE is utterly baffling.
    Criminal that benefits are not taxed
    Many are. Which of those which are not taxed would you like to see taxed?

    - Attendance Allowance
    - Bereavement support payment
    - Disability Living Allowance
    - free TV licence for over-75s
    - Guardian’s Allowance
    - Housing Benefit
    - Income Support - though you may have to pay tax on Income Support if you’re involved in a strike
    - Income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
    - Industrial Injuries Benefit
    - Lump-sum bereavement payments
    - Maternity Allowance
    - Pension Credit
    - Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
    - Severe Disablement Allowance
    - Universal Credit
    - War Widow’s Pension
    - Winter Fuel Payments and Christmas Bonus

    UC is a special case because there is in effect a 55% marginal tax rate for any other income the recipient earns.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,797

    HYUFD said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
    I have rewatched the end of Truss over the weekend when mulling over the state of Starmer.

    Fascinating to watch the winding up of the fracking debate. The minister proudly boasts about how the Conservatives had massively developed renewable energy. Because its right for Britain and puts us in a good place for the future.

    Whatever happened to the Conservative Party? Even at its zenith of loopyness it was still better grounded in reality than Badenoch's mob.
    One thing occurs. When Thatcher and Howe took over in 1979 there was a budget deficit and high inflation. They choose to try to squeeze inflation out of the system which eventually led to a strong upturn in the economy, although not without an awful lot of pain en route. The deficit was definitely a BAD thing and should be avoided.

    Now we have been living with deficits for decades and arguably it has become normalised. In some ways its the same a the availability of cheap credit to all of us. Want that new car? Credit makes it happen. Want that new phone? Stick it on your credit card. Etc etc.

    Have our politicians just come to accept that deficits don't really matter? Is that why no-one is ever serious about getting rid of them?
    What Osborne established is that the markets are mollified by a barely credible plan to cut the deficit (to some extent) in the future, but that future can (at least at the moment) be put off indefinitely.

    What this achieves for the markets is that the deficit is kept under a degree of control, and there's at least an outline sketch of how Britain would get the budget back into balance if it ever really needed to. The thing with markets is that, at the end of the day, it's all a matter of confidence. As long as they remain confident in Britain's ability to pay them back, then it doesn't matter, but Britain has to keep up some degree of pretence that it matters to retain that confidence.

    So we have a situation that can fall apart very rapidly - as Truss/Kwarteng discovered - but provided Britain doesn't wilfully throw itself from the top of the cliff, it provides the latitude to borrow more than £150bn (~5% of GDP) a year. Shame that Britain isn't getting much in return for that borrowing.

    Quiz Question: How many years has Britain run a surplus since WWII, and how many years each for Labour/Conservatives?
    I'd be interested in one of those graphs with the profile over time, and what all the annual forecasts predicted for the next decade. For example the one from 2022/3 predicted it would be down to 2% of GDP by 2026.

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06167/#:~:text=1.,the 2008-2009 financial crisis.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,882

    AnneJGP said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    I guess he could have put the toaster on its side 😉
    Don't be silly, attaching the cheese to the bread with rubber bands is the obvious solution.
    If it’s a mild cheddar would anyone notice the difference ?
    Yes because burnt rubber doesn't taste like cheese. At least, I doubt it.
    Secret confession as we are all friends on PB - I love the crunchy cheese that's been melted and then cooled down from a toasted sandwich.
    Ok, let’s get down to total food perv tacks.

    We tend to have a bacon & egg breakfast once a week, Sundays. I grill the bacon (healthy option obvs) but I negate any benefit by surreptitiously mopping up the delicious, fatty, salty residue from the oven tray with a bit of bread. Almost stale sourdough works best I find.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,797
    Foss said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    I guess he could have put the toaster on its side 😉
    Don't be silly, attaching the cheese to the bread with rubber bands is the obvious solution.
    If it’s a mild cheddar would anyone notice the difference ?
    Yes because burnt rubber doesn't taste like cheese. At least, I doubt it.
    Secret confession as we are all friends on PB - I love the crunchy cheese that's been melted and then cooled down from a toasted sandwich.
    That bit of crispy cheese on the edge of the lasagna dish is just wonderful.
    How many people did not have a "scrape the pie dish" family tradition?

    Confession: yes we did. I still do.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,319
    Foss said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    I guess he could have put the toaster on its side 😉
    Don't be silly, attaching the cheese to the bread with rubber bands is the obvious solution.
    If it’s a mild cheddar would anyone notice the difference ?
    Yes because burnt rubber doesn't taste like cheese. At least, I doubt it.
    Secret confession as we are all friends on PB - I love the crunchy cheese that's been melted and then cooled down from a toasted sandwich.
    That bit of crispy cheese on the edge of the lasagna dish is just wonderful.
    It’s utterly glorious.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,146
    eek said:

    F1: chance of rain this weekend. On a circuit already notorious for low grip in the dry, could make things a bit chaotic.

    Also cold - think temperature will be 6-8 degrees, keeping tyres warm will be fun
    Aye. Looking like Verstappen and Mercedes should be in good shape, the former if wet, the latter if dry. Hard to say with Norris. He's good in the wet but the McLaren being good at keeping tyre temperatures down in standard conditions could be a weakness here.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,585

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    With tax thresholds seemingly frozen it seems inevitable (Not this budget) that the state pension will go above the (normal) PA.

    So does Starmer, Streeting or 'our Ang'

    a) Do a pensioners carve out on the PA
    b) Deduct tax at source
    c) Explicitly ditch the triple lock
    d) Require pensioners to do self assessment

    Answers on a postcard :)

    b) Would be the obvious answer. Why on earth HMRC requires every income provider except the DWP to be able to deduct PAYE is utterly baffling.
    Criminal that benefits are not taxed
    Many are. Which of those which are not taxed would you like to see taxed?

    - Attendance Allowance
    - Bereavement support payment
    - Disability Living Allowance
    - free TV licence for over-75s
    - Guardian’s Allowance
    - Housing Benefit
    - Income Support - though you may have to pay tax on Income Support if you’re involved in a strike
    - Income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
    - Industrial Injuries Benefit
    - Lump-sum bereavement payments
    - Maternity Allowance
    - Pension Credit
    - Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
    - Severe Disablement Allowance
    - Universal Credit
    - War Widow’s Pension
    - Winter Fuel Payments and Christmas Bonus

    UC is a special case because there is in effect a 55% marginal tax rate for any other income the recipient earns.
    Which benefits are taxed via National Insurance, the same as earned incomes are?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,752
    Foss said:

    Selebian said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    What an idiot! That wouldn't be a good meal. One would need to also microwave an unopened packet of pasta.
    When I say unopened, I don't just mean metal lid firmly on, I mean plastic seal unbroken.
    Ah, it'd be fine then, I guess :smiley:

    Leads me to muse on what happens if one tries to microwave an unopened tin of beans. Does the tin act as a Faraday cage/shield so there's no penetration inside and no heating inside? So akin to running the microwave emtpy - trash the microwave, but no exploding beans?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,994

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    With tax thresholds seemingly frozen it seems inevitable (Not this budget) that the state pension will go above the (normal) PA.

    So does Starmer, Streeting or 'our Ang'

    a) Do a pensioners carve out on the PA
    b) Deduct tax at source
    c) Explicitly ditch the triple lock
    d) Require pensioners to do self assessment

    Answers on a postcard :)

    b) Would be the obvious answer. Why on earth HMRC requires every income provider except the DWP to be able to deduct PAYE is utterly baffling.
    Criminal that benefits are not taxed
    Many are. Which of those which are not taxed would you like to see taxed?

    - Attendance Allowance
    - Bereavement support payment
    - Disability Living Allowance
    - free TV licence for over-75s
    - Guardian’s Allowance
    - Housing Benefit
    - Income Support - though you may have to pay tax on Income Support if you’re involved in a strike
    - Income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
    - Industrial Injuries Benefit
    - Lump-sum bereavement payments
    - Maternity Allowance
    - Pension Credit
    - Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
    - Severe Disablement Allowance
    - Universal Credit
    - War Widow’s Pension
    - Winter Fuel Payments and Christmas Bonus

    UC is a special case because there is in effect a 55% marginal tax rate for any other income the recipient earns.
    Which benefits are taxed via National Insurance, the same as earned incomes are?
    You know I agree with you that all income should be taxed on the same basis - no NI surcharge for earned income.

    Although a lot of those benefits I listed are means tested and would not be payable if your income is above the Personal Allowance
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,227

    HYUFD said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
    I have rewatched the end of Truss over the weekend when mulling over the state of Starmer.

    Fascinating to watch the winding up of the fracking debate. The minister proudly boasts about how the Conservatives had massively developed renewable energy. Because its right for Britain and puts us in a good place for the future.

    Whatever happened to the Conservative Party? Even at its zenith of loopyness it was still better grounded in reality than Badenoch's mob.
    One thing occurs. When Thatcher and Howe took over in 1979 there was a budget deficit and high inflation. They choose to try to squeeze inflation out of the system which eventually led to a strong upturn in the economy, although not without an awful lot of pain en route. The deficit was definitely a BAD thing and should be avoided.

    Now we have been living with deficits for decades and arguably it has become normalised. In some ways its the same a the availability of cheap credit to all of us. Want that new car? Credit makes it happen. Want that new phone? Stick it on your credit card. Etc etc.

    Have our politicians just come to accept that deficits don't really matter? Is that why no-one is ever serious about getting rid of them?
    The global economy doesn't expect sovereign debt to be repaid, only refinanced.

    We absolutely could borrow to invest in capex. Our problem is that we have stopped doing capex projects and we're borrowing to pay the in year costs of our declining economy.

    Borrow to invest? Return on investment, economy grows. Borrow for a black hole? More debt, economy slows. So of course we're doing the latter. We need to invest our way out of the hole...
    I absolutely get it that the national finances are not the same as a household budget. but at some point people have to understand just how much money we spend each year paying off loans.

    I do agree we need to spend on investment. But both recent flavours of government have been shit at this. The Tories destroyed HS2. And then in come the ming vase crowd and can loads of roads projects (e.g. Stonehenge, where millions has already been spent). Projects in the UK pump prime things. If you are spending money on construction all those workers are being paid etc.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,752
    Foss said:

    Battlebus said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    Hope he wasn't doing Chemical Engineering.
    Law, of all things...
    Figured there were no clear warnings/training in place and so there could be lucrative negligence lawsuit against the uni for any trauma? :wink:
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,585

    Battlebus said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    Hope he wasn't doing Chemical Engineering.
    Its ok - if he was a newbie. If he was a PhD student then yes...
    Just call it an experiment ...
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,502
    Selebian said:

    Foss said:

    Selebian said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    What an idiot! That wouldn't be a good meal. One would need to also microwave an unopened packet of pasta.
    When I say unopened, I don't just mean metal lid firmly on, I mean plastic seal unbroken.
    Ah, it'd be fine then, I guess :smiley:

    Leads me to muse on what happens if one tries to microwave an unopened tin of beans. Does the tin act as a Faraday cage/shield so there's no penetration inside and no heating inside? So akin to running the microwave emtpy - trash the microwave, but no exploding beans?
    Good question
    When you've tried it, let us know.
    I'm really interested.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,994
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trump says vote to release the Epstein files .

    Knowing that the sham investigation into Clinton and other Democrats will mean that they can’t be released.

    This sudden change of heart from Trump should fool no one .

    Very funny.

    Trump doesn't want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Trump does want to release the files: PB in uproar
    Indeed, start with OrangeManBad and work backwards, even if he’s exposing child abuse it’s still bad.
    Let's be honest though, no one in their right mind thinks any of this is about Trump exposing child abuse... or doing anything indeed apart from helping Trump.
    Oh of course, but it’s funny to see nearly everyone do a 180 on the subject depending on what the president’s last comment on it happened to be.

    Democrats in the US had almost nothing to say on Epstein for years, until they sensed a split within the Republicans.
    I suspect if the Dems had been more proactive regarding the Epstein files Trump would not have been elected President again.

    You probably have a point that the Dems were protecting their own by their inaction, but that doesn't absolve Trump of anything.
    Now obviously we don’t know exactly what’s in the FBI’s warehouse, but Trump must be pretty confident in himself that there’s nothing that can sink him.

    I’ve always thought that if there was something in there regarding Trump that was so bad as to be disqualifying, Biden’s DOJ would have found a way to get it out before the election.

    The full revelations will almost certainly bring down dozens of people involved in politics though, on all sides. It’s of note that most of the Congressmen and women voting to release the files are from the younger recent intakes, who were a lot less likely to have moved in Epstein’s circles when he was alive. Senators, governors, judges, and a lot of political donors, on the other hand…
    Yes, this sounds like a juicy can of worms about to be opened.

    Popcorn, anyone?
    Given what happened to the Andrew formerly known as Prince, which started with one harmless-looking photo, there’s going to be a lot of Americans (and others) very nervous about what might be about to be made public.

    Wealthy people who thought they were too well-connected to ever end up in trouble, who had paid off the right movers and fixers over the decades.
    There are also issues around banks who distributed his criminal money without reporting, are there not?
    Potentially yes, there’s one large bank under investigation for a lack of due diligence to the money coming in and going out of his accounts.

    https://www.npr.org/2025/09/09/nx-s1-5535548/how-j-p-morgan-enabled-jeffrey-epstein
    Why aren't banks held liable for handling the proceeds of crime? The money is after all stolen goods.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,929

    HYUFD said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
    I have rewatched the end of Truss over the weekend when mulling over the state of Starmer.

    Fascinating to watch the winding up of the fracking debate. The minister proudly boasts about how the Conservatives had massively developed renewable energy. Because its right for Britain and puts us in a good place for the future.

    Whatever happened to the Conservative Party? Even at its zenith of loopyness it was still better grounded in reality than Badenoch's mob.
    One thing occurs. When Thatcher and Howe took over in 1979 there was a budget deficit and high inflation. They choose to try to squeeze inflation out of the system which eventually led to a strong upturn in the economy, although not without an awful lot of pain en route. The deficit was definitely a BAD thing and should be avoided.

    Now we have been living with deficits for decades and arguably it has become normalised. In some ways its the same a the availability of cheap credit to all of us. Want that new car? Credit makes it happen. Want that new phone? Stick it on your credit card. Etc etc.

    Have our politicians just come to accept that deficits don't really matter? Is that why no-one is ever serious about getting rid of them?
    The global economy doesn't expect sovereign debt to be repaid, only refinanced.

    We absolutely could borrow to invest in capex. Our problem is that we have stopped doing capex projects and we're borrowing to pay the in year costs of our declining economy.

    Borrow to invest? Return on investment, economy grows. Borrow for a black hole? More debt, economy slows. So of course we're doing the latter. We need to invest our way out of the hole...
    I absolutely get it that the national finances are not the same as a household budget. but at some point people have to understand just how much money we spend each year paying off loans.

    I do agree we need to spend on investment. But both recent flavours of government have been shit at this. The Tories destroyed HS2. And then in come the ming vase crowd and can loads of roads projects (e.g. Stonehenge, where millions has already been spent). Projects in the UK pump prime things. If you are spending money on construction all those workers are being paid etc.
    From what I’ve heard the lack of rail projects is decimating the industry to the extent that it will never be able to recover
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,428
    edited 10:42AM
    biggles said:

    Roger said:


    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Shocked face.

    At least 98 Palestinians have died in custody since October 2023, Israeli data shows

    Exclusive: Real toll likely substantially higher as hundreds of detainees from Gaza are missing, says NGO Physicians for Human Rights - Israel


    Israeli data shows at least 98 Palestinians have died in custody since October 2023, and the real toll is likely substantially higher because hundreds of people detained in Gaza are missing, an Israel-based human rights group has said.

    Physicians for Human Rights – Israel (PHRI) tracked deaths from causes including physical violence, medical neglect and malnutrition for a new report, using freedom of information requests, forensic reports and interviews with lawyers, activists, relatives and witnesses.

    Israeli authorities only provided comprehensive data for the first eight months of the war. Over this period official figures show an unprecedented casualty rate among Palestinian detainees, on average one death every four days.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/17/at-least-98-palestinians-have-died-in-custody-since-october-2023-israeli-data-shows

    Isn't it wonderful how such a diverse and tolerant society as Israel can include groups such as this, who disagree with the government's actions and call them out when they occur. Reminds me of that group in Gaza which does the same thing and campaigns against Hamas. What was its name, again? It eludes me. I'm sure it is on the tip of your tongue.
    Why is every response to a report of Israeli wrongdoing a piece of whataboutery ?
    An exception. An honest Israeli

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNJbNCCejvg&t=14
    Singling out an entire population (save one) as dishonest? Hmmm. What would you call me if I did that for any other country?
    Well try listening to it. They are two and both heads of large organisations in Israel who explain to CNN why the information out of a so called 'democratic country' has become so distorted and corrupted which was Nigels original question

    (Well worth listening to)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,364

    F1: chance of rain this weekend. On a circuit already notorious for low grip in the dry, could make things a bit chaotic.

    It was raining in Vegas this weekend, cold as well in the evenings. Could be 10ºC or below air temperature, coldest running of the whole season.

    https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/Las+Vegas+Nevada+89149?canonicalCityId=7273bb67b4bcfc434fca16d0d1ba723b
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,084
    Selebian said:

    Foss said:

    Selebian said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    What an idiot! That wouldn't be a good meal. One would need to also microwave an unopened packet of pasta.
    When I say unopened, I don't just mean metal lid firmly on, I mean plastic seal unbroken.
    Ah, it'd be fine then, I guess :smiley:

    Leads me to muse on what happens if one tries to microwave an unopened tin of beans. Does the tin act as a Faraday cage/shield so there's no penetration inside and no heating inside? So akin to running the microwave emtpy - trash the microwave, but no exploding beans?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhOHBes6ha4
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,752
    edited 10:47AM
    Barnesian said:

    Selebian said:

    Foss said:

    Selebian said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    What an idiot! That wouldn't be a good meal. One would need to also microwave an unopened packet of pasta.
    When I say unopened, I don't just mean metal lid firmly on, I mean plastic seal unbroken.
    Ah, it'd be fine then, I guess :smiley:

    Leads me to muse on what happens if one tries to microwave an unopened tin of beans. Does the tin act as a Faraday cage/shield so there's no penetration inside and no heating inside? So akin to running the microwave emtpy - trash the microwave, but no exploding beans?
    Good question
    When you've tried it, let us know.
    I'm really interested.
    Anyone got a spare microave and long extension lead? (to conduct said experiment in the garden).

    ETA: Been done, of course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhOHBes6ha4 The garden would be the correct place!

    Wonder why though - is the metal heating up? The waves penetrating the metal (but the door grill blocks the waves as expected). Anyone with more recent physics knowledge than a half forgotten degree two decades ago like to explain?

    E2TA: I mean, I'm starting to worry about the utility of tin-foil hats, given that! :disappointed:
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,913
    Selebian said:

    Foss said:

    Selebian said:

    Foss said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    On the subject of toast, I am someone who likes it charcoal black. I once set fire to a Novotel toaster in an effort to get it to go beyond the 'dried bread' anaemia stage (it was the third pass that did for it, as I recall).

    And yes, I know burnt toast is potentially carcinogenic - I limit myself to toast once a fortnight or so.
    I did see a hotel toaster set on fire, but as I recall it was because someone sent a croissant through it, so not you that time.
    I recall a fellow student making cheese on toast in a toaster. I imagine this is how Sir Isaac Newton discovered gravity.
    First week at uni I had to explain to someone that would couldn't just microwave an unopened jar of pasta sauce.
    What an idiot! That wouldn't be a good meal. One would need to also microwave an unopened packet of pasta.
    When I say unopened, I don't just mean metal lid firmly on, I mean plastic seal unbroken.
    Ah, it'd be fine then, I guess :smiley:

    Leads me to muse on what happens if one tries to microwave an unopened tin of beans. Does the tin act as a Faraday cage/shield so there's no penetration inside and no heating inside? So akin to running the microwave emtpy - trash the microwave, but no exploding beans?
    Probably. But, depending on size/type/location/angle of tin you could get an arc.

    Either way you’re off to the shops for a new one the next day.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,797
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Brain Trust.

    So the new Macbook has arrived. (13.6", 16/256 Gb, £699).

    It's a normal Apple thing - some things superb, and others a blast from the past. For some reason they still require me to plug their "Magic Mouse" into USB in order to charge it. Which reminds me of the One Button Mouse that they maintained for years and years, because Steve Jobs was a purist and practicality and utility could go hang.

    But I need recommendations for a suitable carrying / slip case. I probably want one with hard sides as small as possible around the Macbook, to give good protection. Any advice will be welcome.

    Don’t buy one of the plastic clip-on hard cases which attach to the frame. They can lead to the device overheating, pressure on the screen surround, additional weight on the hinges etc. which cause failures.

    https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/should-you-really-put-a-hardshell-case-on-your-macbook/
    Thanks. My main concern is in transit, as it could be in a cycle pannier sometimes.

    What are the Apple Incase cases like?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,017
    No surprise that the French are enthusiastic to sell Ukraine weapons just as Europe inches closer to using frozen Russian assets for Ukraine to spend on armaments. I think their total support for Ukraine has been less than Sweden's - they're certainly one of the main laggards in Europe, except when they might receive money instead of spend it.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,394

    HYUFD said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
    I have rewatched the end of Truss over the weekend when mulling over the state of Starmer.

    Fascinating to watch the winding up of the fracking debate. The minister proudly boasts about how the Conservatives had massively developed renewable energy. Because its right for Britain and puts us in a good place for the future.

    Whatever happened to the Conservative Party? Even at its zenith of loopyness it was still better grounded in reality than Badenoch's mob.
    One thing occurs. When Thatcher and Howe took over in 1979 there was a budget deficit and high inflation. They choose to try to squeeze inflation out of the system which eventually led to a strong upturn in the economy, although not without an awful lot of pain en route. The deficit was definitely a BAD thing and should be avoided.

    Now we have been living with deficits for decades and arguably it has become normalised. In some ways its the same a the availability of cheap credit to all of us. Want that new car? Credit makes it happen. Want that new phone? Stick it on your credit card. Etc etc.

    Have our politicians just come to accept that deficits don't really matter? Is that why no-one is ever serious about getting rid of them?
    The global economy doesn't expect sovereign debt to be repaid, only refinanced.

    We absolutely could borrow to invest in capex. Our problem is that we have stopped doing capex projects and we're borrowing to pay the in year costs of our declining economy.

    Borrow to invest? Return on investment, economy grows. Borrow for a black hole? More debt, economy slows. So of course we're doing the latter. We need to invest our way out of the hole...
    I absolutely get it that the national finances are not the same as a household budget. but at some point people have to understand just how much money we spend each year paying off loans.

    I do agree we need to spend on investment. But both recent flavours of government have been shit at this. The Tories destroyed HS2. And then in come the ming vase crowd and can loads of roads projects (e.g. Stonehenge, where millions has already been spent). Projects in the UK pump prime things. If you are spending money on construction all those workers are being paid etc.
    We can't just build things. Because we will need to spend 7 years and £250m writing a report about Newts.

    So we need a Planning Enabling Act. We're going to JFDI Twyford Down style.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,364
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
    I have rewatched the end of Truss over the weekend when mulling over the state of Starmer.

    Fascinating to watch the winding up of the fracking debate. The minister proudly boasts about how the Conservatives had massively developed renewable energy. Because its right for Britain and puts us in a good place for the future.

    Whatever happened to the Conservative Party? Even at its zenith of loopyness it was still better grounded in reality than Badenoch's mob.
    One thing occurs. When Thatcher and Howe took over in 1979 there was a budget deficit and high inflation. They choose to try to squeeze inflation out of the system which eventually led to a strong upturn in the economy, although not without an awful lot of pain en route. The deficit was definitely a BAD thing and should be avoided.

    Now we have been living with deficits for decades and arguably it has become normalised. In some ways its the same a the availability of cheap credit to all of us. Want that new car? Credit makes it happen. Want that new phone? Stick it on your credit card. Etc etc.

    Have our politicians just come to accept that deficits don't really matter? Is that why no-one is ever serious about getting rid of them?
    The global economy doesn't expect sovereign debt to be repaid, only refinanced.

    We absolutely could borrow to invest in capex. Our problem is that we have stopped doing capex projects and we're borrowing to pay the in year costs of our declining economy.

    Borrow to invest? Return on investment, economy grows. Borrow for a black hole? More debt, economy slows. So of course we're doing the latter. We need to invest our way out of the hole...
    I absolutely get it that the national finances are not the same as a household budget. but at some point people have to understand just how much money we spend each year paying off loans.

    I do agree we need to spend on investment. But both recent flavours of government have been shit at this. The Tories destroyed HS2. And then in come the ming vase crowd and can loads of roads projects (e.g. Stonehenge, where millions has already been spent). Projects in the UK pump prime things. If you are spending money on construction all those workers are being paid etc.
    From what I’ve heard the lack of rail projects is decimating the industry to the extent that it will never be able to recover
    HS2 had to set up several training centres at the start of the project, because they couldn’t find skills they needed.

    The industry and government needs to ensure there’s a steady pipeline of rail projects when HS2 is completed, otherwise people will drift off into other jobs and the skills will again be lost.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,227

    HYUFD said:

    On topic - the budget is already sinking and there is a week and a half to go. They have managed to get to an extraordinary position where whatever they unveil, the response from political wonks will be "is that it?" and the response from market wonks will be "don't like that".

    And so the recriminations. I'm on record saying McSweeney will the first up against the wall, gone by the 2nd week of December as the budget fallout gets brutal.

    After that? Starmer is toast. The kind of toast where you're desperately scraping it with your knife to try and save it, but knowing in your heart that you will still be able to taste the burn.

    There won't be a general election before 2029, so we have to put up with this shit. So let's hope someone with some nous and some vision comes forward or we truly will be sunk.

    There is a model that the government could adopt - the miracle of Manchester. This has been a 30 year turnaround so its not all on Burnham, but as the metro mayor he knows what works and how to get significant changes done effectively. Shift Gwynne aside and get him into parliament. Whilst there is still time...

    It is time to shit or get off the toilet.

    Do what you think needs to be done to balance the budget, or you don't deserve to be in office.
    He doesn't know how. Then again, neither do the Tories. We need to drive growth to generate tax revenues. But collectively seem to think that making people have less money in their pocket - cuts and tax rises - will make that happen.

    I blame the Treasury. Liz Truss was right as much as she was bonkers - she turned her guns on the Treasury. She just didn't go far enough.
    Truss cut tax without cutting spending which with the size of the deficit the markets wouldn't have
    I have rewatched the end of Truss over the weekend when mulling over the state of Starmer.

    Fascinating to watch the winding up of the fracking debate. The minister proudly boasts about how the Conservatives had massively developed renewable energy. Because its right for Britain and puts us in a good place for the future.

    Whatever happened to the Conservative Party? Even at its zenith of loopyness it was still better grounded in reality than Badenoch's mob.
    One thing occurs. When Thatcher and Howe took over in 1979 there was a budget deficit and high inflation. They choose to try to squeeze inflation out of the system which eventually led to a strong upturn in the economy, although not without an awful lot of pain en route. The deficit was definitely a BAD thing and should be avoided.

    Now we have been living with deficits for decades and arguably it has become normalised. In some ways its the same a the availability of cheap credit to all of us. Want that new car? Credit makes it happen. Want that new phone? Stick it on your credit card. Etc etc.

    Have our politicians just come to accept that deficits don't really matter? Is that why no-one is ever serious about getting rid of them?
    The global economy doesn't expect sovereign debt to be repaid, only refinanced.

    We absolutely could borrow to invest in capex. Our problem is that we have stopped doing capex projects and we're borrowing to pay the in year costs of our declining economy.

    Borrow to invest? Return on investment, economy grows. Borrow for a black hole? More debt, economy slows. So of course we're doing the latter. We need to invest our way out of the hole...
    I absolutely get it that the national finances are not the same as a household budget. but at some point people have to understand just how much money we spend each year paying off loans.

    I do agree we need to spend on investment. But both recent flavours of government have been shit at this. The Tories destroyed HS2. And then in come the ming vase crowd and can loads of roads projects (e.g. Stonehenge, where millions has already been spent). Projects in the UK pump prime things. If you are spending money on construction all those workers are being paid etc.
    We can't just build things. Because we will need to spend 7 years and £250m writing a report about Newts.

    So we need a Planning Enabling Act. We're going to JFDI Twyford Down style.
    So essentially the reason we are screwed is down to the bloody environmentalists? I knew it.

    And they gave Attenborough as knighthood...
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