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I wish I spoke Dutch – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998
    HYUFD said:

    maxh said:

    I've had something rumbling around in my head for a few weeks. If I were Leon, I'd ham it up as a unique insight. Not being Leon, I suspect that what I'm about to write is in no way original. If the latter is true, I'd appreciate anyone pointing me towards anything I can read about it.

    Anyway, the thought: we make a real mistake when we compare Trump's dismantling of democracy and the rule of law with Nazism or even Fascism, because from our perspective in retrospect Nazism was so clearly evil and Fascism so clearly led to evil outcomes. It is not so clear, as least not to those on Trump's side right now, that what he is doing either is, or will lead to, evil. In fact it looks to them like the answer to their problems, otherwise they wouldn't support him.

    And thus the comparison with Hitler is easily rejected: Hitler was evil, Trump might be a bit 'out there' but he isn't evil, so these libs are just frothing unnecessarily.

    What is, I think, much more instructive, is to put ourselves in the minds of the average busy, stressed German or Italian in 1924, after the Beer Hall Putsch or the March on Rome. Perhaps you've got a family to feed, or a busy job. You're not that engaged in politics. A leader comes along who so clearly speaks to you about the flaws and failures in the current political system, and offers a radical solution to them. You have a few misgivings about their methods, but those methods sort of align with your prejudices so you damp down any disquiet. The frog gently boils.

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is that evil regimes don't (usually) seem evil in advance. Indeed, if democratically elected, they seem like the answer to our problems, just as Trump does for many, including some on here.

    So I think a much more interesting question than whether Trump is a Nazi is: what percentage risk is there that the USA develops into an evil regime over the next generation or two, either intentionally or otherwise? And what percentage risk is acceptable to a Trump supporter? What cognitive dissonance are they experiencing, and how can non-Trump supporters help make that cognitive dissonance more visible?

    Looking from the outside, with USA's still unique military and cultural dominance, I'd say the tolerable percentage risk of going full Dr. Evil is incredibly low. For an American I can see the tolerable risk is higher, and the challenge all Americans face is to highlight the risk in the ways the situation over there could develop into something that even a Trump supporter would recognise as evil.

    Anyway, I'm on a plane in 15 mins so may not reply for a bit, but if you know anyone writing about this I'd really appreciate you letting me know. Thanks.

    The problem is incrementalism.

    Trump is madly piling a bunch of levers, while the people he's brought along work on their own ideas.

    Trump will be 82+ at the end of his term. The question is really where MAGA goes from here - who's the next King?

    The survival of Peronism in Argentina is a possible parallel.
    Melania isn't quite Evita though and of course Peronism has shifted to the nationalist left from the corporatist nationalist right where it was for much of the last century in Argentina and Milei convincingly beat it from the libertarian right earlier this week
    No, Peronism hasn't shifted.

    It was always about Peron (and the Peronistas) against The System. The original (quite Anglocentric) elite of Argentina. Peronism was a combination of social fascism (lite) and quite left wing economics, in terms of nationalised industries and big sums of money handed out. The government spending in a big way was useful of course. With a big river, it is dip a cup or two without much notice....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,982
    edited October 31
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in sympathy with the Dutch, a result from last night:

    Bromsgrove South (Worcestershire) Council by-election:

    LibDem: 51.9% (+20.3)
    Ref: 33.4% (-1.5)
    Con: 11.3% (-5.8)
    Lab: 3.4% (-4.1)

    No Grn (-5.5) or Ind (-3.4) as previous.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Reform

    It looks like the non-Reform vote swung behind the LDs, taking the seat despite only a tiny drop in the Reform share, which augurs very well

    Looks like in middle class Bromsgrove at least even Tory voters as well as Labour and former Green and Independent voters tactically voted LD to beat Reform
    I wonder if they'll do that in Brentwood.

    Note; I saw a couple of weeks ago that they didn't do so in the (IIRC) fairly well-off suburb of Hutton.


    And Top of the Morning to everyone!
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,437
    ydoethur said:

    maxh said:

    I've had something rumbling around in my head for a few weeks. If I were Leon, I'd ham it up as a unique insight. Not being Leon, I suspect that what I'm about to write is in no way original. If the latter is true, I'd appreciate anyone pointing me towards anything I can read about it.

    Anyway, the thought: we make a real mistake when we compare Trump's dismantling of democracy and the rule of law with Nazism or even Fascism, because from our perspective in retrospect Nazism was so clearly evil and Fascism so clearly led to evil outcomes. It is not so clear, as least not to those on Trump's side right now, that what he is doing either is, or will lead to, evil. In fact it looks to them like the answer to their problems, otherwise they wouldn't support him.

    And thus the comparison with Hitler is easily rejected: Hitler was evil, Trump might be a bit 'out there' but he isn't evil, so these libs are just frothing unnecessarily.

    What is, I think, much more instructive, is to put ourselves in the minds of the average busy, stressed German or Italian in 1924, after the Beer Hall Putsch or the March on Rome. Perhaps you've got a family to feed, or a busy job. You're not that engaged in politics. A leader comes along who so clearly speaks to you about the flaws and failures in the current political system, and offers a radical solution to them. You have a few misgivings about their methods, but those methods sort of align with your prejudices so you damp down any disquiet. The frog gently boils.

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is that evil regimes don't (usually) seem evil in advance. Indeed, if democratically elected, they seem like the answer to our problems, just as Trump does for many, including some on here.

    So I think a much more interesting question than whether Trump is a Nazi is: what percentage risk is there that the USA develops into an evil regime over the next generation or two, either intentionally or otherwise? And what percentage risk is acceptable to a Trump supporter? What cognitive dissonance are they experiencing, and how can non-Trump supporters help make that cognitive dissonance more visible?

    Looking from the outside, with USA's still unique military and cultural dominance, I'd say the tolerable percentage risk of going full Dr. Evil is incredibly low. For an American I can see the tolerable risk is higher, and the challenge all Americans face is to highlight the risk in the ways the situation over there could develop into something that even a Trump supporter would recognise as evil.

    Anyway, I'm on a plane in 15 mins so may not reply for a bit, but if you know anyone writing about this I'd really appreciate you letting me know. Thanks.

    The Bierkellar Putsch didn't lead to the Nazi regime. They took power rather more than nine years later.
    And January 6 didn't lead directly to the MAGA takeover of the US. They won a presidential election 4 years later but can't be said to have "taken power" yet. If that is going to happen, it probably won't happen until at least the next Presidential election which is, er, 8 years later
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,441

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP doesn't have 60 senators so it doesn't control every branch of government.
    They don’t need 60 senators
    They do to pass a budget.

    As the GOP wont support what the Dems want and the Dems wont support what the GOP want there is no funding approved and so the shutdown.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,509
    maxh said:

    I've had something rumbling around in my head for a few weeks. If I were Leon, I'd ham it up as a unique insight. Not being Leon, I suspect that what I'm about to write is in no way original. If the latter is true, I'd appreciate anyone pointing me towards anything I can read about it.

    Anyway, the thought: we make a real mistake when we compare Trump's dismantling of democracy and the rule of law with Nazism or even Fascism, because from our perspective in retrospect Nazism was so clearly evil and Fascism so clearly led to evil outcomes. It is not so clear, as least not to those on Trump's side right now, that what he is doing either is, or will lead to, evil. In fact it looks to them like the answer to their problems, otherwise they wouldn't support him.

    And thus the comparison with Hitler is easily rejected: Hitler was evil, Trump might be a bit 'out there' but he isn't evil, so these libs are just frothing unnecessarily.

    What is, I think, much more instructive, is to put ourselves in the minds of the average busy, stressed German or Italian in 1924, after the Beer Hall Putsch or the March on Rome. Perhaps you've got a family to feed, or a busy job. You're not that engaged in politics. A leader comes along who so clearly speaks to you about the flaws and failures in the current political system, and offers a radical solution to them. You have a few misgivings about their methods, but those methods sort of align with your prejudices so you damp down any disquiet. The frog gently boils.

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is that evil regimes don't (usually) seem evil in advance. Indeed, if democratically elected, they seem like the answer to our problems, just as Trump does for many, including some on here.

    So I think a much more interesting question than whether Trump is a Nazi is: what percentage risk is there that the USA develops into an evil regime over the next generation or two, either intentionally or otherwise? And what percentage risk is acceptable to a Trump supporter? What cognitive dissonance are they experiencing, and how can non-Trump supporters help make that cognitive dissonance more visible?

    Looking from the outside, with USA's still unique military and cultural dominance, I'd say the tolerable percentage risk of going full Dr. Evil is incredibly low. For an American I can see the tolerable risk is higher, and the challenge all Americans face is to highlight the risk in the ways the situation over there could develop into something that even a Trump supporter would recognise as evil.

    Anyway, I'm on a plane in 15 mins so may not reply for a bit, but if you know anyone writing about this I'd really appreciate you letting me know. Thanks.

    An interesting (and, not I suspect, entirely original) series if thoughts.

    Concepts of "good" and "evil" are overstated - most states function on a basis of motivated self interest. The current American administration is more overt about this than many of its predecessors but for example seeking to halt the spread of Communism across the world was in America's interests economically and militarily and so it backed occasionally awful despotic regimes simply because they killed a greater proportion of Communists in their country than liberals, conservatives and others (to be cynical).

    Soviet policy was the same and they were overt about it propping up at ultimately catastrophic cost sclerotic regimes in Eastern Europe and elsewhere which eventually blew away in the first strong breeze.

    Yes, when things look bad, it's easy to be attracted to someone peddling "answers" or blaming someone else for everything wrong in society and we see it now. Add in the skills of mass propaganda and you get the view every asylum seeker is a rapist or a child molester and every person who follows the Islamic faith is a terrorist etc, etc.

    Needless to say, once in power, some groups try to secure their position by legal or extra-legal means and that's where the strength of democratic systems gets tested - are the checks and balances sufficient to hold back a potential autocrat?

    Some have argued benevolent despotism is perhaps the best form of Government - the problem is how any such despotic regime deals with its critics or opponents - does it tolerate them, ignore them or incarcerate them? The trouble is many despots don't take kindly to criticism for whatever reason and the inability to enact change leaves the despot isolated as society, technology and culture evolve past them.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,125

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP doesn't have 60 senators so it doesn't control every branch of government.
    They don’t need 60 senators
    They do to pass a budget.

    As the GOP wont support what the Dems want and the Dems wont support what the GOP want there is no funding approved and so the shutdown.

    No they don’t. That requirement only exists because the GOP want it to remain.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,811

    This week, green power provided a huge percentage of UK's energy use

    Also this week, near zero small boat crossings

    Proof, as if it were needed, that burning fossil fuels causes illegal immigration

    A mild and breezy winter will help the government in all sorts of ways.
    Latest ECMWF deterministic forecast does have a Scandinavian high at day 10 which wasn't in the forecast yesterday. Will be interesting to see if that's still in subsequent forecasts.

    Have the Express rolled out the first, "we're going to be buried in snow," story of the winter yet?
    Along with the Mail the Express will be preoccupied with explaining how it got the Reeves story wrong and apologising at length.

    They will also have a bit on Andrew, I expect.
    The Express used to have a meteorological company on a retainer to produce hysterical longterm forecasts for quiet (or busy) news weeks.
  • ydoethur said:

    maxh said:

    I've had something rumbling around in my head for a few weeks. If I were Leon, I'd ham it up as a unique insight. Not being Leon, I suspect that what I'm about to write is in no way original. If the latter is true, I'd appreciate anyone pointing me towards anything I can read about it.

    Anyway, the thought: we make a real mistake when we compare Trump's dismantling of democracy and the rule of law with Nazism or even Fascism, because from our perspective in retrospect Nazism was so clearly evil and Fascism so clearly led to evil outcomes. It is not so clear, as least not to those on Trump's side right now, that what he is doing either is, or will lead to, evil. In fact it looks to them like the answer to their problems, otherwise they wouldn't support him.

    And thus the comparison with Hitler is easily rejected: Hitler was evil, Trump might be a bit 'out there' but he isn't evil, so these libs are just frothing unnecessarily.

    What is, I think, much more instructive, is to put ourselves in the minds of the average busy, stressed German or Italian in 1924, after the Beer Hall Putsch or the March on Rome. Perhaps you've got a family to feed, or a busy job. You're not that engaged in politics. A leader comes along who so clearly speaks to you about the flaws and failures in the current political system, and offers a radical solution to them. You have a few misgivings about their methods, but those methods sort of align with your prejudices so you damp down any disquiet. The frog gently boils.

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is that evil regimes don't (usually) seem evil in advance. Indeed, if democratically elected, they seem like the answer to our problems, just as Trump does for many, including some on here.

    So I think a much more interesting question than whether Trump is a Nazi is: what percentage risk is there that the USA develops into an evil regime over the next generation or two, either intentionally or otherwise? And what percentage risk is acceptable to a Trump supporter? What cognitive dissonance are they experiencing, and how can non-Trump supporters help make that cognitive dissonance more visible?

    Looking from the outside, with USA's still unique military and cultural dominance, I'd say the tolerable percentage risk of going full Dr. Evil is incredibly low. For an American I can see the tolerable risk is higher, and the challenge all Americans face is to highlight the risk in the ways the situation over there could develop into something that even a Trump supporter would recognise as evil.

    Anyway, I'm on a plane in 15 mins so may not reply for a bit, but if you know anyone writing about this I'd really appreciate you letting me know. Thanks.

    The Bierkellar Putsch didn't lead to the Nazi regime. They took power rather more than nine years later.
    And January 6 didn't lead directly to the MAGA takeover of the US. They won a presidential election 4 years later but can't be said to have "taken power" yet. If that is going to happen, it probably won't happen until at least the next Presidential election which is, er, 8 years later
    Are you entirely sure there's going to be another Presidential election....I mean, a free and fair one?

    I'll put you in the Optimist column.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,890

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,324
    How many times can the Beeb use 'Andrew formally known as Prince' and expect their listeners to smile
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,437
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Better hours in hospitality is problematic. The whole point is their peak is everyone else's leisure. A restaurant that opened 9 to 5 and closed for an hour at lunchtime would not have many customers.

    Easier is to block book the hotel to the Home Office for a guaranteed income stream.
    Block booking a hotel 24/366 is an owners dream, in any time. You have a defined income, massively reduced coasts (shut the fancy stuff). Which is why they *should* have been booked at a massive discount.

    That they weren't is an example of why the government is so bad at spending money - feast or famine only. And then politicians wonder why ordinary people think that their taxes are wasted.
    The financial benefit has to be balanced against the risk of your hotel being burned down.
    That'll either be commercially or effectively gov't insured against.
    And they'll get a new hotel out of it, or maybe get to sell the land for development, a win-win I'd say.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,125
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
    Why should the Dems care what the Airlines think? There’s nothing in it for them to pass the CR. So either the GOP compromises or it continues to fail.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,890

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
    Why should the Dems care what the Airlines think? There’s nothing in it for them to pass the CR. So either the GOP compromises or it continues to fail.
    Why should the GOP compromise on continuing Biden’s budget?
  • eekeek Posts: 31,705
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
    And the Democrats are going to be looking at who are the public blaming - because that's all that matters to them...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,880
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
    Why should the Dems care what the Airlines think? There’s nothing in it for them to pass the CR. So either the GOP compromises or it continues to fail.
    Why should the GOP compromise on continuing Biden’s budget?
    Why should the Democrats pass a budget when the Republicans are refusing to let the House sit and the President openly talks of using violence against cities controlled by their party?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,982
    Roger said:

    How many times can the Beeb use 'Andrew formally known as Prince' and expect their listeners to smile

    He was formerly formally known as Prince, but he isn't now.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,880
    Is it too much to expect the police to do this kind of thing rather than journalists?
    https://www.londoncentric.media/p/london-phone-thieves-bury-devices-in-flowerbeds-phoenix-garden
  • eekeek Posts: 31,705
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Better hours in hospitality is problematic. The whole point is their peak is everyone else's leisure. A restaurant that opened 9 to 5 and closed for an hour at lunchtime would not have many customers.

    Easier is to block book the hotel to the Home Office for a guaranteed income stream.
    Block booking a hotel 24/366 is an owners dream, in any time. You have a defined income, massively reduced coasts (shut the fancy stuff). Which is why they *should* have been booked at a massive discount.

    That they weren't is an example of why the government is so bad at spending money - feast or famine only. And then politicians wonder why ordinary people think that their taxes are wasted.
    The financial benefit has to be balanced against the risk of your hotel being burned down.
    Most of the hotels being used would struggle to get more than a handful of free market guests.

    The one in Leicester is noted for its wildlife, mostly rats and bed bugs.
    And now they have a single customer willing to pay the nightly rack rate for every room for a couple of years, and they don’t care about the restaurant or the pool or the gym.

    The issue is the government being crap at negotiating contracts, the hotelier can now finance his whole refurb with the cheque the government has just written, it’s a total no-brainer in his eyes.
    While the Government may be crap at negotiating contracts - the fact was the Government had a beyond bad hand.

    If you know that the Government needs x00 beds and you are the only option they have why wouldn't you insist on every penny possible...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,735
    Completely O/T listening to Lennie James on Desert Island Discs. What a fine, interesting, intelligent and human individual. Some great music choices too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,861
    edited October 31

    maxh said:

    I've had something rumbling around in my head for a few weeks. If I were Leon, I'd ham it up as a unique insight. Not being Leon, I suspect that what I'm about to write is in no way original. If the latter is true, I'd appreciate anyone pointing me towards anything I can read about it.

    Anyway, the thought: we make a real mistake when we compare Trump's dismantling of democracy and the rule of law with Nazism or even Fascism, because from our perspective in retrospect Nazism was so clearly evil and Fascism so clearly led to evil outcomes. It is not so clear, as least not to those on Trump's side right now, that what he is doing either is, or will lead to, evil. In fact it looks to them like the answer to their problems, otherwise they wouldn't support him.

    And thus the comparison with Hitler is easily rejected: Hitler was evil, Trump might be a bit 'out there' but he isn't evil, so these libs are just frothing unnecessarily.

    What is, I think, much more instructive, is to put ourselves in the minds of the average busy, stressed German or Italian in 1924, after the Beer Hall Putsch or the March on Rome. Perhaps you've got a family to feed, or a busy job. You're not that engaged in politics. A leader comes along who so clearly speaks to you about the flaws and failures in the current political system, and offers a radical solution to them. You have a few misgivings about their methods, but those methods sort of align with your prejudices so you damp down any disquiet. The frog gently boils.

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is that evil regimes don't (usually) seem evil in advance. Indeed, if democratically elected, they seem like the answer to our problems, just as Trump does for many, including some on here.

    So I think a much more interesting question than whether Trump is a Nazi is: what percentage risk is there that the USA develops into an evil regime over the next generation or two, either intentionally or otherwise? And what percentage risk is acceptable to a Trump supporter? What cognitive dissonance are they experiencing, and how can non-Trump supporters help make that cognitive dissonance more visible?

    Looking from the outside, with USA's still unique military and cultural dominance, I'd say the tolerable percentage risk of going full Dr. Evil is incredibly low. For an American I can see the tolerable risk is higher, and the challenge all Americans face is to highlight the risk in the ways the situation over there could develop into something that even a Trump supporter would recognise as evil.

    Anyway, I'm on a plane in 15 mins so may not reply for a bit, but if you know anyone writing about this I'd really appreciate you letting me know. Thanks.

    The problem is incrementalism.

    Trump is madly piling a bunch of levers, while the people he's brought along work on their own ideas.

    Trump will be 82+ at the end of his term. The question is really where MAGA goes from here - who's the next King?

    The survival of Peronism in Argentina is a possible parallel.
    A Nazi comparison is OTT, however the point of a 'warning from history' is to be alert to signs that it might happen again rather than wait until it has.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,825

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
    Why should the Dems care what the Airlines think? There’s nothing in it for them to pass the CR. So either the GOP compromises or it continues to fail.
    If the Democrats vote for a budget that doubles health insurance premiums they will be destroyed at subsequent elections.

    That is why the GOP are pushing so hard for the Democrats to vote for it.

    It's the administration that is ending SNAP, even though they still have the money to fund it.

    This is a public relations battle.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,125
    edited October 31
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
    Why should the Dems care what the Airlines think? There’s nothing in it for them to pass the CR. So either the GOP compromises or it continues to fail.
    Why should the GOP compromise on continuing Biden’s budget?
    Because they have to if they want to pass a budget without removing the filibuster. They’re in government so it’s their problem.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,890
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Better hours in hospitality is problematic. The whole point is their peak is everyone else's leisure. A restaurant that opened 9 to 5 and closed for an hour at lunchtime would not have many customers.

    Easier is to block book the hotel to the Home Office for a guaranteed income stream.
    Block booking a hotel 24/366 is an owners dream, in any time. You have a defined income, massively reduced coasts (shut the fancy stuff). Which is why they *should* have been booked at a massive discount.

    That they weren't is an example of why the government is so bad at spending money - feast or famine only. And then politicians wonder why ordinary people think that their taxes are wasted.
    The financial benefit has to be balanced against the risk of your hotel being burned down.
    Most of the hotels being used would struggle to get more than a handful of free market guests.

    The one in Leicester is noted for its wildlife, mostly rats and bed bugs.
    And now they have a single customer willing to pay the nightly rack rate for every room for a couple of years, and they don’t care about the restaurant or the pool or the gym.

    The issue is the government being crap at negotiating contracts, the hotelier can now finance his whole refurb with the cheque the government has just written, it’s a total no-brainer in his eyes.
    While the Government may be crap at negotiating contracts - the fact was the Government had a beyond bad hand.

    If you know that the Government needs x00 beds and you are the only option they have why wouldn't you insist on every penny possible...
    IMHO they should have gone with military bases rather than than hotels.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,571
    The GOP could remove the filibuster with one vote but don’t want to as that sets a precedent in case there’s another Dem win in the future. That of course relies on there being another free and fair election !

    The term free and fair is doing heavy lifting because the GOP have for years been trying to suppress urban votes in red states .
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,890
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
    Why should the Dems care what the Airlines think? There’s nothing in it for them to pass the CR. So either the GOP compromises or it continues to fail.
    Why should the GOP compromise on continuing Biden’s budget?
    Why should the Democrats pass a budget when the Republicans are refusing to let the House sit and the President openly talks of using violence against cities controlled by their party?
    The Republicans will let the House sit as soon as the Senate passes the Budget.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,125
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
    Why should the Dems care what the Airlines think? There’s nothing in it for them to pass the CR. So either the GOP compromises or it continues to fail.
    Why should the GOP compromise on continuing Biden’s budget?
    Why should the Democrats pass a budget when the Republicans are refusing to let the House sit and the President openly talks of using violence against cities controlled by their party?
    The Republicans will let the House sit as soon as the Senate passes the Budget.
    You’ll believe anything
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,861
    boulay said:

    Completely O/T listening to Lennie James on Desert Island Discs. What a fine, interesting, intelligent and human individual. Some great music choices too.

    Keir Starmer was good on that too.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,705
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Better hours in hospitality is problematic. The whole point is their peak is everyone else's leisure. A restaurant that opened 9 to 5 and closed for an hour at lunchtime would not have many customers.

    Easier is to block book the hotel to the Home Office for a guaranteed income stream.
    Block booking a hotel 24/366 is an owners dream, in any time. You have a defined income, massively reduced coasts (shut the fancy stuff). Which is why they *should* have been booked at a massive discount.

    That they weren't is an example of why the government is so bad at spending money - feast or famine only. And then politicians wonder why ordinary people think that their taxes are wasted.
    The financial benefit has to be balanced against the risk of your hotel being burned down.
    Most of the hotels being used would struggle to get more than a handful of free market guests.

    The one in Leicester is noted for its wildlife, mostly rats and bed bugs.
    And now they have a single customer willing to pay the nightly rack rate for every room for a couple of years, and they don’t care about the restaurant or the pool or the gym.

    The issue is the government being crap at negotiating contracts, the hotelier can now finance his whole refurb with the cheque the government has just written, it’s a total no-brainer in his eyes.
    While the Government may be crap at negotiating contracts - the fact was the Government had a beyond bad hand.

    If you know that the Government needs x00 beds and you are the only option they have why wouldn't you insist on every penny possible...
    IMHO they should have gone with military bases rather than than hotels.
    Checks the constituency Catterick is in - hmm I wonder why that idea was never suggested
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,825
    rkrkrk said:

    Is it too much to expect the police to do this kind of thing rather than journalists?
    https://www.londoncentric.media/p/london-phone-thieves-bury-devices-in-flowerbeds-phoenix-garden

    The criminals are so many steps ahead of the police that it's embarrassing.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,705
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
    Why should the Dems care what the Airlines think? There’s nothing in it for them to pass the CR. So either the GOP compromises or it continues to fail.
    Why should the GOP compromise on continuing Biden’s budget?
    Why should the Democrats pass a budget when the Republicans are refusing to let the House sit and the President openly talks of using violence against cities controlled by their party?
    The Republicans will let the House sit as soon as the Senate passes the Budget.
    Equally the Democrats could pass the bill as soon as the Republicans have let the House sit.

    All you’ve described there is one side of just one of the current impasses
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,596

    stodge said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    60 seconds of searching gets some facts.....



    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06022/
    By choice.

    Its not a law of nature or economics.

    Continually leaking £30bn out of the country, year after year, decade after decade, eventually you end up wondering why so many of the country's assets are foreign owned.
    Well, all right, but if we follow that argument to its logical conclusion, we would ban people from taking holidays abroad and force them to enjoy what were called "staycations" a few years back.

    The problem is if you want some warmth and sunshine (almost guaranteed) you can wait for climate change to bring it to the UK or you can go to France, Italy, Spain, Greece or wherever which will be fine until conditions become unbearable in high summer sue to the heat, forest fires, lack of water etc in a few decades (apparently).

    The advent of relatively inexpensive transport to warmer places has had the effect you'd expect it to have and the figures for Denmark and Sweden might be enlightening.
    At first glance that graph shows surprisingly stability - that the proportions of tourists to the UK and from the UK have remained the same, pretty much, as the world got richer.

    Not to mention the cultural belief in the UK that a holiday *has* to have sun. Hence the popularity of desert islands a short flight away.

    The reluctance of immigrants to the UK to take holidays in the UK has been noted. It's not fear of racism - it's simply that they regard the idea of walking around the Lake District vs beach in Turkey as a no-brainer.
    Oct-Apr: I prefer abroad for better weather and given its cheaper, that makes it a no brainer.
    May-Sept: I prefer the UK but given its a lot more expensive, value for money makes it a toss up.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,324
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in sympathy with the Dutch, a result from last night:

    Bromsgrove South (Worcestershire) Council by-election:

    LibDem: 51.9% (+20.3)
    Ref: 33.4% (-1.5)
    Con: 11.3% (-5.8)
    Lab: 3.4% (-4.1)

    No Grn (-5.5) or Ind (-3.4) as previous.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Reform

    It looks like the non-Reform vote swung behind the LDs, taking the seat despite only a tiny drop in the Reform share, which augurs very well

    Looks like in middle class Bromsgrove at least even Tory voters as well as Labour and former Green and Independent voters tactically voted LD to beat Reform
    Reform are on their way out. You can just feel it. Like wearing flares in the 80's. Voters want something they can rely on. They've had enough of spivs....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=vw+casino+advert#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a7fd42f8,vid:O-M8cqWccdw,st:0
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,596
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Better hours in hospitality is problematic. The whole point is their peak is everyone else's leisure. A restaurant that opened 9 to 5 and closed for an hour at lunchtime would not have many customers.

    Easier is to block book the hotel to the Home Office for a guaranteed income stream.
    Block booking a hotel 24/366 is an owners dream, in any time. You have a defined income, massively reduced coasts (shut the fancy stuff). Which is why they *should* have been booked at a massive discount.

    That they weren't is an example of why the government is so bad at spending money - feast or famine only. And then politicians wonder why ordinary people think that their taxes are wasted.
    The financial benefit has to be balanced against the risk of your hotel being burned down.
    Most of the hotels being used would struggle to get more than a handful of free market guests.

    The one in Leicester is noted for its wildlife, mostly rats and bed bugs.
    And now they have a single customer willing to pay the nightly rack rate for every room for a couple of years, and they don’t care about the restaurant or the pool or the gym.

    The issue is the government being crap at negotiating contracts, the hotelier can now finance his whole refurb with the cheque the government has just written, it’s a total no-brainer in his eyes.
    Are we actually paying the nightly rack rate or is this just an assumption?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Better hours in hospitality is problematic. The whole point is their peak is everyone else's leisure. A restaurant that opened 9 to 5 and closed for an hour at lunchtime would not have many customers.

    Easier is to block book the hotel to the Home Office for a guaranteed income stream.
    Block booking a hotel 24/366 is an owners dream, in any time. You have a defined income, massively reduced coasts (shut the fancy stuff). Which is why they *should* have been booked at a massive discount.

    That they weren't is an example of why the government is so bad at spending money - feast or famine only. And then politicians wonder why ordinary people think that their taxes are wasted.
    The financial benefit has to be balanced against the risk of your hotel being burned down.
    Most of the hotels being used would struggle to get more than a handful of free market guests.

    The one in Leicester is noted for its wildlife, mostly rats and bed bugs.
    And now they have a single customer willing to pay the nightly rack rate for every room for a couple of years, and they don’t care about the restaurant or the pool or the gym.

    The issue is the government being crap at negotiating contracts, the hotelier can now finance his whole refurb with the cheque the government has just written, it’s a total no-brainer in his eyes.
    While the Government may be crap at negotiating contracts - the fact was the Government had a beyond bad hand.

    If you know that the Government needs x00 beds and you are the only option they have why wouldn't you insist on every penny possible...
    There are enough hotels and operators that, without outright and illegal collusion, someone would take the lower offers.

    This is simply what happens in the commercial world. The kind of sensible cost reduction that government can’t seem to do.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,558
    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,591

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Better hours in hospitality is problematic. The whole point is their peak is everyone else's leisure. A restaurant that opened 9 to 5 and closed for an hour at lunchtime would not have many customers.

    Easier is to block book the hotel to the Home Office for a guaranteed income stream.
    I was more thinking about more consistent / planned hours. Part of the problem is they expect people to be available and then send them home without pay if there are no customers
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,591
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Yes, higher prices and shorter hours in the UK put both foreigners and Britons from holidaying here.

    It might be good for domestic hospitality workers, but isn't good for the balance of payments.
    Your lack of sympathy for the overworked and underpaid British employee is remarkable
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,941
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in sympathy with the Dutch, a result from last night:

    Bromsgrove South (Worcestershire) Council by-election:

    LibDem: 51.9% (+20.3)
    Ref: 33.4% (-1.5)
    Con: 11.3% (-5.8)
    Lab: 3.4% (-4.1)

    No Grn (-5.5) or Ind (-3.4) as previous.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Reform

    It looks like the non-Reform vote swung behind the LDs, taking the seat despite only a tiny drop in the Reform share, which augurs very well

    Looks like in middle class Bromsgrove at least even Tory voters as well as Labour and former Green and Independent voters tactically voted LD to beat Reform
    Reform are on their way out. You can just feel it. Like wearing flares in the 80's. Voters want something they can rely on. They've had enough of spivs....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=vw+casino+advert#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a7fd42f8,vid:O-M8cqWccdw,st:0
    You do realise they're net+ council seats this week?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,596

    rkrkrk said:

    Is it too much to expect the police to do this kind of thing rather than journalists?
    https://www.londoncentric.media/p/london-phone-thieves-bury-devices-in-flowerbeds-phoenix-garden

    The criminals are so many steps ahead of the police that it's embarrassing.
    Perhaps they could plant someone inside these criminal gangs?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,596

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    I'll be investing heavily in a chain of paella shops across Margate, Blackpool and Yarmouth come 2035.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,857
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in sympathy with the Dutch, a result from last night:

    Bromsgrove South (Worcestershire) Council by-election:

    LibDem: 51.9% (+20.3)
    Ref: 33.4% (-1.5)
    Con: 11.3% (-5.8)
    Lab: 3.4% (-4.1)

    No Grn (-5.5) or Ind (-3.4) as previous.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Reform

    It looks like the non-Reform vote swung behind the LDs, taking the seat despite only a tiny drop in the Reform share, which augurs very well

    Looks like in middle class Bromsgrove at least even Tory voters as well as Labour and former Green and Independent voters tactically voted LD to beat Reform
    Reform are on their way out. You can just feel it. Like wearing flares in the 80's. Voters want something they can rely on. They've had enough of spivs....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=vw+casino+advert#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a7fd42f8,vid:O-M8cqWccdw,st:0
    Reform are currently 12% ahead of Labour, on average, and have gained (net) over a hundred councillors since May.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,591
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    Because the Trump administration is not trustworthy and the GOP are refusing to have meaningful discussions on the shape of the budget

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    I'll be investing heavily in a chain of paella shops across Margate, Blackpool and Yarmouth come 2035.
    Back in the late 1980s, Jonathon Porrit of the Greens came on Radio 4 to tell us of the dangers of Global Warming.

    He finished by saying that if nothing was done, “they will be growing palm trees on the beach at Bournemouth”.

    I was very young but I remember thinking that that argument was a terrible way to convince people there was a problem.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,301
    edited October 31
    Just checked our pensions, my colleague has achieved a 16.55% annual rate of return on her SIPP since she joined us in 2010(ish). I'm at a paltry 9.88, our pots are actually fairly similar in size now :D
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998
    Foss said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in sympathy with the Dutch, a result from last night:

    Bromsgrove South (Worcestershire) Council by-election:

    LibDem: 51.9% (+20.3)
    Ref: 33.4% (-1.5)
    Con: 11.3% (-5.8)
    Lab: 3.4% (-4.1)

    No Grn (-5.5) or Ind (-3.4) as previous.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Reform

    It looks like the non-Reform vote swung behind the LDs, taking the seat despite only a tiny drop in the Reform share, which augurs very well

    Looks like in middle class Bromsgrove at least even Tory voters as well as Labour and former Green and Independent voters tactically voted LD to beat Reform
    Reform are on their way out. You can just feel it. Like wearing flares in the 80's. Voters want something they can rely on. They've had enough of spivs....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=vw+casino+advert#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a7fd42f8,vid:O-M8cqWccdw,st:0
    You do realise they're net+ council seats this week?
    Shhhhhhhsh!

    A mark is a valuable asset to a gambler….
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,880
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
    Why should the Dems care what the Airlines think? There’s nothing in it for them to pass the CR. So either the GOP compromises or it continues to fail.
    Why should the GOP compromise on continuing Biden’s budget?
    Why should the Democrats pass a budget when the Republicans are refusing to let the House sit and the President openly talks of using violence against cities controlled by their party?
    The Republicans will let the House sit as soon as the Senate passes the Budget.
    No they won't.

    Mike Johnson is not blocking the House from sitting because of the budget, but because he's a Cummings-style crook.

    This is the only lever the Democrats have to force him to back down. Whether it's smart to use it in this way is a different question, but it's entirely understandable that they are.

    And I note you didn't address the issue of crimes against Democratic-controlled cities and states.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,596

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    I'll be investing heavily in a chain of paella shops across Margate, Blackpool and Yarmouth come 2035.
    Back in the late 1980s, Jonathon Porrit of the Greens came on Radio 4 to tell us of the dangers of Global Warming.

    He finished by saying that if nothing was done, “they will be growing palm trees on the beach at Bournemouth”.

    I was very young but I remember thinking that that argument was a terrible way to convince people there was a problem.
    In the UK and much of the world the initial problems are more the increase in extreme weather rather than the temperature rise. Not sure if they knew that was also coming back in the 80s or not.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,222

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    I'll be investing heavily in a chain of paella shops across Margate, Blackpool and Yarmouth come 2035.
    Back in the late 1980s, Jonathon Porrit of the Greens came on Radio 4 to tell us of the dangers of Global Warming.

    He finished by saying that if nothing was done, “they will be growing palm trees on the beach at Bournemouth”.

    I was very young but I remember thinking that that argument was a terrible way to convince people there was a problem.
    Thinking of the greywacke hills of the Borders. All that potential for wine terraces.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,439
    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in sympathy with the Dutch, a result from last night:

    Bromsgrove South (Worcestershire) Council by-election:

    LibDem: 51.9% (+20.3)
    Ref: 33.4% (-1.5)
    Con: 11.3% (-5.8)
    Lab: 3.4% (-4.1)

    No Grn (-5.5) or Ind (-3.4) as previous.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Reform

    It looks like the non-Reform vote swung behind the LDs, taking the seat despite only a tiny drop in the Reform share, which augurs very well

    Looks like in middle class Bromsgrove at least even Tory voters as well as Labour and former Green and Independent voters tactically voted LD to beat Reform
    Reform are on their way out. You can just feel it. Like wearing flares in the 80's. Voters want something they can rely on. They've had enough of spivs....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=vw+casino+advert#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a7fd42f8,vid:O-M8cqWccdw,st:0
    Reform are currently 12% ahead of Labour, on average, and have gained (net) over a hundred councillors since May.
    Reform's problem, like the PVV's, is what does a NOTA party do once it becomes AOTA.

    And the problem for Western Democracy is how long are we going to keep cycling round NOTA parties? Like the "everyone you meet is nasty" theory, if every government we elect is a letdown, maybe the problem isn't the governments...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,222

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    I'll be investing heavily in a chain of paella shops across Margate, Blackpool and Yarmouth come 2035.
    Might need to sell out pdq to someone not too au fait with coastal flooding.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Yes, higher prices and shorter hours in the UK put both foreigners and Britons from holidaying here.

    It might be good for domestic hospitality workers, but isn't good for the balance of payments.
    Your lack of sympathy for the overworked and underpaid British employee is remarkable
    IIRC lots of sympathy was displayed for those poor souls whose pay was such that their pension contributions hit the upper limits.

    The obvious answer, not taken, was to reduce their pay and pension contributions. Which would be good for the balance of payments.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,558
    President Trump is not the problem. Rather, it is the hard men running things behind the friendly facade of a Reagan, Bush or, yes, Donald Trump. Project 2025 now, and they are not term-limited by the constitution.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,705

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Yes, higher prices and shorter hours in the UK put both foreigners and Britons from holidaying here.

    It might be good for domestic hospitality workers, but isn't good for the balance of payments.
    Your lack of sympathy for the overworked and underpaid British employee is remarkable
    IIRC lots of sympathy was displayed for those poor souls whose pay was such that their pension contributions hit the upper limits.

    The obvious answer, not taken, was to reduce their pay and pension contributions. Which would be good for the balance of payments.
    Because at that point they would just retire.

    As I pointed out last week if the Government messes around with pensions in November there are a lot of people who may switch to a 2 or 3 day week or simply completely retire...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    I'll be investing heavily in a chain of paella shops across Margate, Blackpool and Yarmouth come 2035.
    Back in the late 1980s, Jonathon Porrit of the Greens came on Radio 4 to tell us of the dangers of Global Warming.

    He finished by saying that if nothing was done, “they will be growing palm trees on the beach at Bournemouth”.

    I was very young but I remember thinking that that argument was a terrible way to convince people there was a problem.
    In the UK and much of the world the initial problems are more the increase in extreme weather rather than the temperature rise. Not sure if they knew that was also coming back in the 80s or not.
    They didn't. The assumption seemed to be, IIRC, that temperatures would increase all round, fairly evenly. In retrospect, the addition of energy into weather systems causing more extreme events should have been obvious.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,439

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    I'll be investing heavily in a chain of paella shops across Margate, Blackpool and Yarmouth come 2035.
    Back in the late 1980s, Jonathon Porrit of the Greens came on Radio 4 to tell us of the dangers of Global Warming.

    He finished by saying that if nothing was done, “they will be growing palm trees on the beach at Bournemouth”.

    I was very young but I remember thinking that that argument was a terrible way to convince people there was a problem.
    In the UK and much of the world the initial problems are more the increase in extreme weather rather than the temperature rise. Not sure if they knew that was also coming back in the 80s or not.
    The geologists I worked alongside in the early 90s had a pretty shrewd idea. The big picture stuff is just energy flows, after all. But because it was modelling, and because of the weather/climate difference, it was fairly easy to overlook, if that's what you wanted to do.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,437

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    The problem Europe has is that there are few beaches *just a little bit further north*. You can go to the Baltic but you are no better off than the UK. Maybe the French Atlantic coast will benefit. I have adapted by travelling in shoulder season, but obviously you can't if you have kids.

    Europe is now less hospitable than the tropics, temperatures over 40 degrees are now commonplace whereas as far as I can see most of SE Asia seems to be constant around high 20s to mid 30s
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998
    edited October 31

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in sympathy with the Dutch, a result from last night:

    Bromsgrove South (Worcestershire) Council by-election:

    LibDem: 51.9% (+20.3)
    Ref: 33.4% (-1.5)
    Con: 11.3% (-5.8)
    Lab: 3.4% (-4.1)

    No Grn (-5.5) or Ind (-3.4) as previous.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Reform

    It looks like the non-Reform vote swung behind the LDs, taking the seat despite only a tiny drop in the Reform share, which augurs very well

    Looks like in middle class Bromsgrove at least even Tory voters as well as Labour and former Green and Independent voters tactically voted LD to beat Reform
    Reform are on their way out. You can just feel it. Like wearing flares in the 80's. Voters want something they can rely on. They've had enough of spivs....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=vw+casino+advert#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a7fd42f8,vid:O-M8cqWccdw,st:0
    Reform are currently 12% ahead of Labour, on average, and have gained (net) over a hundred councillors since May.
    Reform's problem, like the PVV's, is what does a NOTA party do once it becomes AOTA.

    And the problem for Western Democracy is how long are we going to keep cycling round NOTA parties? Like the "everyone you meet is nasty" theory, if every government we elect is a letdown, maybe the problem isn't the governments...
    The problem *is* the governments. Saying "only shit can get elected" is rubbish.

    Having some convictions and some courage to stick to them will go a long way.

    No one has tried - "We have a plan. It will take x years, because that's how long changing things takes. Here it is."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,222

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    I'll be investing heavily in a chain of paella shops across Margate, Blackpool and Yarmouth come 2035.
    Back in the late 1980s, Jonathon Porrit of the Greens came on Radio 4 to tell us of the dangers of Global Warming.

    He finished by saying that if nothing was done, “they will be growing palm trees on the beach at Bournemouth”.

    I was very young but I remember thinking that that argument was a terrible way to convince people there was a problem.
    In the UK and much of the world the initial problems are more the increase in extreme weather rather than the temperature rise. Not sure if they knew that was also coming back in the 80s or not.
    So far ... but the temperature rise is what causes more extreme weather, vide the current hurricane (warmer seas etc.)

    As for the 1980s, I would have thought so. Very obvious consequence of the normal distribution curve, and its inflection at either end. But a look in New Scientist or Google Advanced Book Search will prolly yield something - here, for instamce, first thing that came up, a 1989 report shows at least an aware ness of the basic statistical issue.

    https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Potential_Effects_of_Global_Climate/umgTAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=extreme+weather+events&pg=SA6-PA5&printsec=frontcover
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,483

    Wot - centrist/progressive party makes huge gains at the expense nasty populists? Imagine if that becomes a thing....

    So July 2024 redux.

    Good morning everyone.
  • dunhamdunham Posts: 49
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in sympathy with the Dutch, a result from last night:

    Bromsgrove South (Worcestershire) Council by-election:

    LibDem: 51.9% (+20.3)
    Ref: 33.4% (-1.5)
    Con: 11.3% (-5.8)
    Lab: 3.4% (-4.1)

    No Grn (-5.5) or Ind (-3.4) as previous.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Reform

    It looks like the non-Reform vote swung behind the LDs, taking the seat despite only a tiny drop in the Reform share, which augurs very well

    Looks like in middle class Bromsgrove at least even Tory voters as well as Labour and former Green and Independent voters tactically voted LD to beat Reform
    Reform are on their way out. You can just feel it. Like wearing flares in the 80's. Voters want something they can rely on. They've had enough of spivs....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=vw+casino+advert#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a7fd42f8,vid:O-M8cqWccdw,st:0
    As you often do, you are drawing the wrong conclusion. Reform's strength is in the former Danelaw. South and West of Watling Street, the LDs provide strong competition, as do PC and the SNP in Wales and Scotland respectively, but these areas comprise no more than a third of the population of Great Britain.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,222
    edited October 31

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    The problem Europe has is that there are few beaches *just a little bit further north*. You can go to the Baltic but you are no better off than the UK. Maybe the French Atlantic coast will benefit. I have adapted by travelling in shoulder season, but obviously you can't if you have kids.

    Europe is now less hospitable than the tropics, temperatures over 40 degrees are now commonplace whereas as far as I can see most of SE Asia seems to be constant around high 20s to mid 30s
    'few beaches *just a little bit further north*'

    Plenty in the UK north of Ribble or Humber. Though I dread tdo think of the adjustment the Free Kirk Leodhasach would have to make if Stornoway became the new Ibiza, certainly on Sundays.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,125
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Yes, higher prices and shorter hours in the UK put both foreigners and Britons from holidaying here.

    It might be good for domestic hospitality workers, but isn't good for the balance of payments.
    Your lack of sympathy for the overworked and underpaid British employee is remarkable
    IIRC lots of sympathy was displayed for those poor souls whose pay was such that their pension contributions hit the upper limits.

    The obvious answer, not taken, was to reduce their pay and pension contributions. Which would be good for the balance of payments.
    Because at that point they would just retire.

    As I pointed out last week if the Government messes around with pensions in November there are a lot of people who may switch to a 2 or 3 day week or simply completely retire...
    More jobs for the rest of us
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Yes, higher prices and shorter hours in the UK put both foreigners and Britons from holidaying here.

    It might be good for domestic hospitality workers, but isn't good for the balance of payments.
    Your lack of sympathy for the overworked and underpaid British employee is remarkable
    IIRC lots of sympathy was displayed for those poor souls whose pay was such that their pension contributions hit the upper limits.

    The obvious answer, not taken, was to reduce their pay and pension contributions. Which would be good for the balance of payments.
    Because at that point they would just retire.

    As I pointed out last week if the Government messes around with pensions in November there are a lot of people who may switch to a 2 or 3 day week or simply completely retire...
    Just raise the pension age for them. That way the workshy so-and-soes would be forced to carry on helping the country instead of polishing their bottoms.

    If it's good enough for the minimum wage workers, it's good enough for those on mid 6 figures.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,705

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in sympathy with the Dutch, a result from last night:

    Bromsgrove South (Worcestershire) Council by-election:

    LibDem: 51.9% (+20.3)
    Ref: 33.4% (-1.5)
    Con: 11.3% (-5.8)
    Lab: 3.4% (-4.1)

    No Grn (-5.5) or Ind (-3.4) as previous.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Reform

    It looks like the non-Reform vote swung behind the LDs, taking the seat despite only a tiny drop in the Reform share, which augurs very well

    Looks like in middle class Bromsgrove at least even Tory voters as well as Labour and former Green and Independent voters tactically voted LD to beat Reform
    Reform are on their way out. You can just feel it. Like wearing flares in the 80's. Voters want something they can rely on. They've had enough of spivs....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=vw+casino+advert#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a7fd42f8,vid:O-M8cqWccdw,st:0
    Reform are currently 12% ahead of Labour, on average, and have gained (net) over a hundred councillors since May.
    Reform's problem, like the PVV's, is what does a NOTA party do once it becomes AOTA.

    And the problem for Western Democracy is how long are we going to keep cycling round NOTA parties? Like the "everyone you meet is nasty" theory, if every government we elect is a letdown, maybe the problem isn't the governments...
    The problem *is* the governments. Saying "only shit can get elected" is rubbish.

    Having some convictions and some courage to stick to them will go a long way.

    No one has tried - "We have a plan. It will take x years, because that's how long changing things takes. Here it is."
    A lot of people voted Labour hoping they would fix some blatently obvious problems - and yet the biggest one of those (government revenue and spending) they screwed up before they were even elected..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998
    Carnyx said:

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    The problem Europe has is that there are few beaches *just a little bit further north*. You can go to the Baltic but you are no better off than the UK. Maybe the French Atlantic coast will benefit. I have adapted by travelling in shoulder season, but obviously you can't if you have kids.

    Europe is now less hospitable than the tropics, temperatures over 40 degrees are now commonplace whereas as far as I can see most of SE Asia seems to be constant around high 20s to mid 30s
    'few beaches *just a little bit further north*'

    Plenty in the UK north of Ribble or Humber. Though I dread tdo think of the adjustment the Free Kirk Leodhasach would have to make if Stornoway became the new Ibiza, certainly on Sundays.
    Pitch it to them to become a tourist attraction - like the Amish?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,222
    edited October 31

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Yes, higher prices and shorter hours in the UK put both foreigners and Britons from holidaying here.

    It might be good for domestic hospitality workers, but isn't good for the balance of payments.
    Your lack of sympathy for the overworked and underpaid British employee is remarkable
    IIRC lots of sympathy was displayed for those poor souls whose pay was such that their pension contributions hit the upper limits.

    The obvious answer, not taken, was to reduce their pay and pension contributions. Which would be good for the balance of payments.
    Because at that point they would just retire.

    As I pointed out last week if the Government messes around with pensions in November there are a lot of people who may switch to a 2 or 3 day week or simply completely retire...
    More jobs for the rest of us
    And because you're young and nearer the bottom of the career, still more jobs.

    Which for some unaccountable reason never seems to be regarded edit: on PB as a positive feature of retirement.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,222

    Carnyx said:

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    The problem Europe has is that there are few beaches *just a little bit further north*. You can go to the Baltic but you are no better off than the UK. Maybe the French Atlantic coast will benefit. I have adapted by travelling in shoulder season, but obviously you can't if you have kids.

    Europe is now less hospitable than the tropics, temperatures over 40 degrees are now commonplace whereas as far as I can see most of SE Asia seems to be constant around high 20s to mid 30s
    'few beaches *just a little bit further north*'

    Plenty in the UK north of Ribble or Humber. Though I dread tdo think of the adjustment the Free Kirk Leodhasach would have to make if Stornoway became the new Ibiza, certainly on Sundays.
    Pitch it to them to become a tourist attraction - like the Amish?
    Be more likely to proselytise. I don't think the Amish do?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,756

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP doesn't have 60 senators so it doesn't control every branch of government.
    There it is — Trump calls for Senate Republicans to nuke the filibuster.
    https://x.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1984088230875295791
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,301
    edited October 31

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    I'll be investing heavily in a chain of paella shops across Margate, Blackpool and Yarmouth come 2035.
    Back in the late 1980s, Jonathon Porrit of the Greens came on Radio 4 to tell us of the dangers of Global Warming.

    He finished by saying that if nothing was done, “they will be growing palm trees on the beach at Bournemouth”.

    I was very young but I remember thinking that that argument was a terrible way to convince people there was a problem.
    In the UK and much of the world the initial problems are more the increase in extreme weather rather than the temperature rise. Not sure if they knew that was also coming back in the 80s or not.
    The geologists I worked alongside in the early 90s had a pretty shrewd idea. The big picture stuff is just energy flows, after all. But because it was modelling, and because of the weather/climate difference, it was fairly easy to overlook, if that's what you wanted to do.
    Central England temperature, year to 28th October (Date most recently updated) in visual form 1773 - 2025

    Anything over 10 is red, under 9 is blue. 9-10 is light red.

    See next post for pic :)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,222
    Pulpstar said:

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    I'll be investing heavily in a chain of paella shops across Margate, Blackpool and Yarmouth come 2035.
    Back in the late 1980s, Jonathon Porrit of the Greens came on Radio 4 to tell us of the dangers of Global Warming.

    He finished by saying that if nothing was done, “they will be growing palm trees on the beach at Bournemouth”.

    I was very young but I remember thinking that that argument was a terrible way to convince people there was a problem.
    In the UK and much of the world the initial problems are more the increase in extreme weather rather than the temperature rise. Not sure if they knew that was also coming back in the 80s or not.
    The geologists I worked alongside in the early 90s had a pretty shrewd idea. The big picture stuff is just energy flows, after all. But because it was modelling, and because of the weather/climate difference, it was fairly easy to overlook, if that's what you wanted to do.
    Central England temperature, year to 28th October (Date most recently updated) in visual form 1773 - 2025
    The vision is off on your monitor?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,324
    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in sympathy with the Dutch, a result from last night:

    Bromsgrove South (Worcestershire) Council by-election:

    LibDem: 51.9% (+20.3)
    Ref: 33.4% (-1.5)
    Con: 11.3% (-5.8)
    Lab: 3.4% (-4.1)

    No Grn (-5.5) or Ind (-3.4) as previous.

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Reform

    It looks like the non-Reform vote swung behind the LDs, taking the seat despite only a tiny drop in the Reform share, which augurs very well

    Looks like in middle class Bromsgrove at least even Tory voters as well as Labour and former Green and Independent voters tactically voted LD to beat Reform
    Reform are on their way out. You can just feel it. Like wearing flares in the 80's. Voters want something they can rely on. They've had enough of spivs....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=vw+casino+advert#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a7fd42f8,vid:O-M8cqWccdw,st:0
    Reform are currently 12% ahead of Labour, on average, and have gained (net) over a hundred councillors since May.
    That's the thing with fads....Suddenly they're not fashionable any more. You'll still get your Blackpools and your Jaywicks but most will move on.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,301
    Temp:
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,697
    ydoethur said:

    Factoid of the day:

    America’s rig count, which is an indicator of future activity, has dropped from 482 to 420 since Trump moved into the White House.

    Telegraph

    Drill, baby, drill.

    A Gulf between what he promised and what he delivered.
    I thought a rig count counted how many elections he'd rigged.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,880

    ydoethur said:

    Factoid of the day:

    America’s rig count, which is an indicator of future activity, has dropped from 482 to 420 since Trump moved into the White House.

    Telegraph

    Drill, baby, drill.

    A Gulf between what he promised and what he delivered.
    I thought a rig count counted how many elections he'd rigged.
    That's only obvious with 20/20 hindsight.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,558
    Confidential information leaked after MoD official left laptop open on train
    Exclusive: Details of 49 data breaches at MoD include personal data accidentally sent to a civil service sports club with 140,000 members

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/afghan-ministry-of-defence-data-breach-taliban-b2853652.html

    Stay safe, everyone, unlike confidential information in government hands.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,439

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Yes, higher prices and shorter hours in the UK put both foreigners and Britons from holidaying here.

    It might be good for domestic hospitality workers, but isn't good for the balance of payments.
    Your lack of sympathy for the overworked and underpaid British employee is remarkable
    IIRC lots of sympathy was displayed for those poor souls whose pay was such that their pension contributions hit the upper limits.

    The obvious answer, not taken, was to reduce their pay and pension contributions. Which would be good for the balance of payments.
    Because at that point they would just retire.

    As I pointed out last week if the Government messes around with pensions in November there are a lot of people who may switch to a 2 or 3 day week or simply completely retire...
    Just raise the pension age for them. That way the workshy so-and-soes would be forced to carry on helping the country instead of polishing their bottoms.

    If it's good enough for the minimum wage workers, it's good enough for those on mid 6 figures.
    Catch is, if you are middle class enough, the formal bits of the pension that the government controls aren't really the important bit.

    If you have a paid-off mortgage, and especially if the kids have left home properly, it can be a challenge to spend the money coming in. If you have an inheritance throwing off cash as well, doubly so.

    See the pearl-clutching at the idea of not being able to put 20k a year into a cash ISA. For normal people, that's pretty unimaginable.

    How to motivate people to work when really don't need the money is one of the great unsolved problems of our time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,880
    edited October 31

    Confidential information leaked after MoD official left laptop open on train
    Exclusive: Details of 49 data breaches at MoD include personal data accidentally sent to a civil service sports club with 140,000 members

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/afghan-ministry-of-defence-data-breach-taliban-b2853652.html

    Stay safe, everyone, unlike confidential information in government hands.

    What I want to know is, how the fuck do these people get jobs in government?

    So stupid that they would actually not get a job overseeing the milking of caterpillars on the grounds they lack mental capacity, yet are entrusted with important info?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998
    a
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Factoid of the day:

    America’s rig count, which is an indicator of future activity, has dropped from 482 to 420 since Trump moved into the White House.

    Telegraph

    Drill, baby, drill.

    A Gulf between what he promised and what he delivered.
    I thought a rig count counted how many elections he'd rigged.
    That's only obvious with 20/20 hindsight.
    20/28, Shirley?

    Maybe I need to get my eyes checked. Anyone know a good optician, near Barnard Castle?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,697

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Do REALLY believe that? I mean, generally you are far brighter than parroting the Speaker's bollocks...
    Sandpit? Parroting Republican talking points?! What strange bizarro world have I awoken in.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,454
    Pulpstar said:

    Temp:

    Pretty. But meaningless without numbers. What numerical values do the colours have?
  • eekeek Posts: 31,705

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Yes, higher prices and shorter hours in the UK put both foreigners and Britons from holidaying here.

    It might be good for domestic hospitality workers, but isn't good for the balance of payments.
    Your lack of sympathy for the overworked and underpaid British employee is remarkable
    IIRC lots of sympathy was displayed for those poor souls whose pay was such that their pension contributions hit the upper limits.

    The obvious answer, not taken, was to reduce their pay and pension contributions. Which would be good for the balance of payments.
    Because at that point they would just retire.

    As I pointed out last week if the Government messes around with pensions in November there are a lot of people who may switch to a 2 or 3 day week or simply completely retire...
    Just raise the pension age for them. That way the workshy so-and-soes would be forced to carry on helping the country instead of polishing their bottoms.

    If it's good enough for the minimum wage workers, it's good enough for those on mid 6 figures.
    Catch is, if you are middle class enough, the formal bits of the pension that the government controls aren't really the important bit.

    If you have a paid-off mortgage, and especially if the kids have left home properly, it can be a challenge to spend the money coming in. If you have an inheritance throwing off cash as well, doubly so.

    See the pearl-clutching at the idea of not being able to put 20k a year into a cash ISA. For normal people, that's pretty unimaginable.

    How to motivate people to work when really don't need the money is one of the great unsolved problems of our time.
    Yep - and that's me now.

    House paid off - so our outgoings are approximately £900 a month (bills go out tomorrow and I was shifting money round earlier) before food which again isn't massive.

    Now I enjoy work but I'm at the point where I really can go - if I don't like the project I can take a few months off and not panic...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,596
    edited October 31
    ydoethur said:

    Confidential information leaked after MoD official left laptop open on train
    Exclusive: Details of 49 data breaches at MoD include personal data accidentally sent to a civil service sports club with 140,000 members

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/afghan-ministry-of-defence-data-breach-taliban-b2853652.html

    Stay safe, everyone, unlike confidential information in government hands.

    What I want to know is, how the fuck do these people get jobs in government?

    So stupid that they would actually not get a job overseeing the milking of caterpillars on the grounds they lack mental capacity, yet are entrusted with important info?
    It is fairly obvious from pb isn't it? We have lots of bright, successful tech types. A high proportion of them love to complain about public sector benefits like pensions but wouldn't dream of taking those jobs as they get better overall benefits elsewhere.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,697
    eek said:

    Here is my discovery of the day - I knew the US was a country of have and have nots but

    Roughly one in eight people in the United States receive food stamps, which average around $187 a month and cost the federal government about $8 billion monthly.

    In most countries, we just give money to the poorest, but in the US, they don't trust the poor to spend their money on food, so it's food stamps instead.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,866
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    The problem Europe has is that there are few beaches *just a little bit further north*. You can go to the Baltic but you are no better off than the UK. Maybe the French Atlantic coast will benefit. I have adapted by travelling in shoulder season, but obviously you can't if you have kids.

    Europe is now less hospitable than the tropics, temperatures over 40 degrees are now commonplace whereas as far as I can see most of SE Asia seems to be constant around high 20s to mid 30s
    'few beaches *just a little bit further north*'

    Plenty in the UK north of Ribble or Humber. Though I dread tdo think of the adjustment the Free Kirk Leodhasach would have to make if Stornoway became the new Ibiza, certainly on Sundays.
    Pitch it to them to become a tourist attraction - like the Amish?
    Be more likely to proselytise. I don't think the Amish do?
    How do you say "We're doomed" in Gaelic so I can recognise them when visiting?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    What do we expect if we jack up visa fees to ridiculous levels, impose absurdly high aviation taxes, don't build nearly enough airport capacity, stop tourists from reclaiming VAT to the delight of the Frogs and impose planning regulations that mean that building cheap accommodation is impossible?

    As usual, a greedy, incompetent, short-sighted and stupid government (this one and the last one) shoots itself and the country in both feet.
    Why would someone come on holiday to a country where most of the news about hotels is of racists protesting outside them?
    Also the hospitality industry is particularly reliant on low waged immigrant staff. Stopping them from coming is harming our domestic tourism industry.

    Actions have consequences. Hotels and restaurants really struggle for staff.

    Perhaps they should increase wages and offer better hours?

    Actions have consequences
    Yes, higher prices and shorter hours in the UK put both foreigners and Britons from holidaying here.

    It might be good for domestic hospitality workers, but isn't good for the balance of payments.
    Your lack of sympathy for the overworked and underpaid British employee is remarkable
    IIRC lots of sympathy was displayed for those poor souls whose pay was such that their pension contributions hit the upper limits.

    The obvious answer, not taken, was to reduce their pay and pension contributions. Which would be good for the balance of payments.
    Because at that point they would just retire.

    As I pointed out last week if the Government messes around with pensions in November there are a lot of people who may switch to a 2 or 3 day week or simply completely retire...
    Just raise the pension age for them. That way the workshy so-and-soes would be forced to carry on helping the country instead of polishing their bottoms.

    If it's good enough for the minimum wage workers, it's good enough for those on mid 6 figures.
    Catch is, if you are middle class enough, the formal bits of the pension that the government controls aren't really the important bit.

    If you have a paid-off mortgage, and especially if the kids have left home properly, it can be a challenge to spend the money coming in. If you have an inheritance throwing off cash as well, doubly so.

    See the pearl-clutching at the idea of not being able to put 20k a year into a cash ISA. For normal people, that's pretty unimaginable.

    How to motivate people to work when really don't need the money is one of the great unsolved problems of our time.
    Something to understand, is how different the past was.

    To my Aunt, for example, who lived through the post war boom. The increases in wages went into savings against the inevitable bust. So she and her husband, put 25-35% of their post tax income in investments, *on top of their pensions* - not because they were rich, but because they thought they had to.

    That's who the ISA system was invented for.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998
    ydoethur said:

    Confidential information leaked after MoD official left laptop open on train
    Exclusive: Details of 49 data breaches at MoD include personal data accidentally sent to a civil service sports club with 140,000 members

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/afghan-ministry-of-defence-data-breach-taliban-b2853652.html

    Stay safe, everyone, unlike confidential information in government hands.

    What I want to know is, how the fuck do these people get jobs in government?

    So stupid that they would actually not get a job overseeing the milking of caterpillars on the grounds they lack mental capacity, yet are entrusted with important info?
    Data point - Liz Truss.

    Why should one expect the civil servants to be of higher calibre than the Prime Minister?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,707
    On topic, if you’re looking for a polling bust for betting purposes, NYC mayoral may be the one. Otoh it might be the self deluding persuading themselves that a serial harasser of women is just what the city wants and needs. 12/1 on comeback kid Cuomo.

    https://x.com/kathleenwood730/status/1984050325062611193?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,697
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, a good result for D66 and again an example of a liberal party coming top to beat a party of the populist right.

    As also happened in Canada earlier this year and in France in the 2022 French presidential and legislative elections.

    Hence the better Reform do, the more there may be an opportunity for the LDs in the liberal centre if the next general election becomes more about cultural issues than the economy and the traditional battle between Conservatives and Labour (though the tax rising budget expected may see a shift back to that)

    The Lib Dems’ appeal is a niche one - in very affluent seats.

    The two seats that Reform won last night, are in parts of the country that are completely out of reach for the Lib Dem’s.
    Yes they need to broaden their appeal to C1 and C2 majority seats from AB heavy seats to really stop Reform
    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49978-how-britain-voted-in-the-2024-general-election gives 2024 voting by class.

    LibDems
    ABC1 14%
    C2DE 11%

    It's not a huge difference. The only party with a big difference is Reform (11% v 20%).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,483
    Carnyx said:

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    The problem Europe has is that there are few beaches *just a little bit further north*. You can go to the Baltic but you are no better off than the UK. Maybe the French Atlantic coast will benefit. I have adapted by travelling in shoulder season, but obviously you can't if you have kids.

    Europe is now less hospitable than the tropics, temperatures over 40 degrees are now commonplace whereas as far as I can see most of SE Asia seems to be constant around high 20s to mid 30s
    'few beaches *just a little bit further north*'

    Plenty in the UK north of Ribble or Humber. Though I dread tdo think of the adjustment the Free Kirk Leodhasach would have to make if Stornoway became the new Ibiza, certainly on Sundays.
    We're going to have to develop Scotland. :smile:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,998
    Battlebus said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    The problem Europe has is that there are few beaches *just a little bit further north*. You can go to the Baltic but you are no better off than the UK. Maybe the French Atlantic coast will benefit. I have adapted by travelling in shoulder season, but obviously you can't if you have kids.

    Europe is now less hospitable than the tropics, temperatures over 40 degrees are now commonplace whereas as far as I can see most of SE Asia seems to be constant around high 20s to mid 30s
    'few beaches *just a little bit further north*'

    Plenty in the UK north of Ribble or Humber. Though I dread tdo think of the adjustment the Free Kirk Leodhasach would have to make if Stornoway became the new Ibiza, certainly on Sundays.
    Pitch it to them to become a tourist attraction - like the Amish?
    Be more likely to proselytise. I don't think the Amish do?
    How do you say "We're doomed" in Gaelic so I can recognise them when visiting?
    They radiate dour gloom the way that Plutonium 238 radiates. Steadily and for a long, long time.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,806
    kinabalu said:

    maxh said:

    I've had something rumbling around in my head for a few weeks. If I were Leon, I'd ham it up as a unique insight. Not being Leon, I suspect that what I'm about to write is in no way original. If the latter is true, I'd appreciate anyone pointing me towards anything I can read about it.

    Anyway, the thought: we make a real mistake when we compare Trump's dismantling of democracy and the rule of law with Nazism or even Fascism, because from our perspective in retrospect Nazism was so clearly evil and Fascism so clearly led to evil outcomes. It is not so clear, as least not to those on Trump's side right now, that what he is doing either is, or will lead to, evil. In fact it looks to them like the answer to their problems, otherwise they wouldn't support him.

    And thus the comparison with Hitler is easily rejected: Hitler was evil, Trump might be a bit 'out there' but he isn't evil, so these libs are just frothing unnecessarily.

    What is, I think, much more instructive, is to put ourselves in the minds of the average busy, stressed German or Italian in 1924, after the Beer Hall Putsch or the March on Rome. Perhaps you've got a family to feed, or a busy job. You're not that engaged in politics. A leader comes along who so clearly speaks to you about the flaws and failures in the current political system, and offers a radical solution to them. You have a few misgivings about their methods, but those methods sort of align with your prejudices so you damp down any disquiet. The frog gently boils.

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is that evil regimes don't (usually) seem evil in advance. Indeed, if democratically elected, they seem like the answer to our problems, just as Trump does for many, including some on here.

    So I think a much more interesting question than whether Trump is a Nazi is: what percentage risk is there that the USA develops into an evil regime over the next generation or two, either intentionally or otherwise? And what percentage risk is acceptable to a Trump supporter? What cognitive dissonance are they experiencing, and how can non-Trump supporters help make that cognitive dissonance more visible?

    Looking from the outside, with USA's still unique military and cultural dominance, I'd say the tolerable percentage risk of going full Dr. Evil is incredibly low. For an American I can see the tolerable risk is higher, and the challenge all Americans face is to highlight the risk in the ways the situation over there could develop into something that even a Trump supporter would recognise as evil.

    Anyway, I'm on a plane in 15 mins so may not reply for a bit, but if you know anyone writing about this I'd really appreciate you letting me know. Thanks.

    The problem is incrementalism.

    Trump is madly piling a bunch of levers, while the people he's brought along work on their own ideas.

    Trump will be 82+ at the end of his term. The question is really where MAGA goes from here - who's the next King?

    The survival of Peronism in Argentina is a possible parallel.
    A Nazi comparison is OTT, however the point of a 'warning from history' is to be alert to signs that it might happen again rather than wait until it has.
    But this is just my point. It's all very well you and I being alert to the warning of history. We're not the ones that need to heed that warning (except, perhaps, if Tommy Robinson takes over Reform). The ones who need to heed that warning currently seem blind to it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,454

    On topic, if you’re looking for a polling bust for betting purposes, NYC mayoral may be the one. Otoh it might be the self deluding persuading themselves that a serial harasser of women is just what the city wants and needs. 12/1 on comeback kid Cuomo.

    https://x.com/kathleenwood730/status/1984050325062611193?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Polls are occasionally wrong
    But they're usually not *that* wrong

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_New_York_City_mayoral_election#Polling
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,697
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    American Airlines joins Delta airlines, in asking the US Congress to pass the Continuing Resolution to fund the government.

    Air traffic controllers, airport security agents, and border immigration agents, are all not getting their paycheques today.

    https://x.com/mcccanm/status/1984145286714032354

    There's going to be quite the flu epidemic in those control towers. Just in time to mess up flights for Thanksgiving...

    At what point do the Republicans in Congress see they are committing mass seppuku?
    The issue is with the Democrats in the Senate, who have voted against the CR 14 times now.

    The Senate needs 60 votes.
    Why would Democrat Senators vote for things when Congress isn’t meeting because the Republicans refuse to let it meet.

    Eh?

    The Republican Senators have turned up every day to vote for the CR, and the Democrats senators (with the notable exception of Sen Fetterman) have voted it down.
    The GOP controls every branch of government.
    Expecting the opposition to rubber stamp whatever they choose doesn't really wash, does it ?
    The GOP has no interest in “negotiating” with the Dems re a further budget. It’s an absolute nonsense that the Dems will get anything out of voting for the CR other than giving Trump a win.
    Okay, so the federal paychecks don’t go out and the SNAP benefits stop, with the Dem Senators clearly being the roadblock.

    Dem Senators are already describing the loss of SNAP benefits as ‘leverage’ against Trump.
    Republicans will no doubt argue that it's a problem caused by the (not in power) Dems but I suspect most people blame whoever is in government for any disruption like this, every time.
    Sure, but large businesses such as the airlines are clearly taking the GOP line that a Continuing Resolution needs to be passed by the Senate.

    They don’t care about party politics, just want to see security staff, border agents, and air traffic control get their paychecks.
    Why should the Dems care what the Airlines think? There’s nothing in it for them to pass the CR. So either the GOP compromises or it continues to fail.
    Why should the GOP compromise on continuing Biden’s budget?
    Why should the Democrats pass a budget when the Republicans are refusing to let the House sit and the President openly talks of using violence against cities controlled by their party?
    The Republicans will let the House sit as soon as the Senate passes the Budget.
    What part of the constitution says the House can't sit until the Senate passes the Budget? Whether the House sits or not shouldn't be a bargaining chip: it should sit because that's how democracy works!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,301
    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Temp:

    Pretty. But meaningless without numbers. What numerical values do the colours have?
    @PBModerator Apologies in advance for a 2nd image :E
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,483
    A briefing on the new Renters Rights Act from Pinsent-Mason:

    https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/renters-rights-act-2025-guide-private-landlords-england

    I have not dug in far yet, but areas that will need watching by PBers whether renting or letting will include:

    1 - National Register of Landlords.
    2 - New arrangements for rent increases.
    3 - Changes to the repossession process.

    If your T is a barrack-room lawyer, attention to detail is critical.

    What we need for both Ls and Ts is existing per-Council Landlord Licensing arrangements to be standardised nationally. Currently it is a mess.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,302
    The Dutch election result is actually 26 seats each for D66 and PVV. It was only 27/25 for a short time after the exit poll was released.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,454
    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Temp:

    Pretty. But meaningless without numbers. What numerical values do the colours have?
    @PBModerator Apologies in advance for a 2nd image :E
    Thank you. Am I correct in thinking that they are absolute values (eg 7.24 = 7.24 degrees) and not changes?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,222
    Pulpstar said:

    Temp:

    Thank you!

    For me it was the amateur met chap who then lived in the house behind us. He'd been there since 1963 or so. He showed me the local met data - average annual temp from his records, avewraged out over a rolling three year period. Beautiful ski jump. And that was about 1998.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,697

    Roger said:

    The UK had a £26bn tourism deficit in the first half of the year:

    Overseas residents made an estimated 7.2 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £4.7 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Overseas residents made an estimated 9.3 million visits to Great Britain and spent an estimated £7.9 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 18.7 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £16.5 billion in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2025.

    Residents of Great Britain made an estimated 26.0 million visits outside of the UK and spent an estimated £22.1 billion in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2025.


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/bulletins/overseastravelandtourismprovisional/januarytomarchandapriltojune2025

    Which is approximately how much money the government borrowed from foreign sources.

    Just think if we could only create a giant sun and get rid of the excrement from the South Coast beaches we could have our own Cote d'Azur and all Rachel's problems would be over
    That might happen, as tourists notice the traditional Mediterranean resorts are becoming unpleasantly hot, and look for alternatives.
    I'll be investing heavily in a chain of paella shops across Margate, Blackpool and Yarmouth come 2035.
    Back in the late 1980s, Jonathon Porrit of the Greens came on Radio 4 to tell us of the dangers of Global Warming.

    He finished by saying that if nothing was done, “they will be growing palm trees on the beach at Bournemouth”.

    I was very young but I remember thinking that that argument was a terrible way to convince people there was a problem.
    In the UK and much of the world the initial problems are more the increase in extreme weather rather than the temperature rise. Not sure if they knew that was also coming back in the 80s or not.
    They didn't. The assumption seemed to be, IIRC, that temperatures would increase all round, fairly evenly. In retrospect, the addition of energy into weather systems causing more extreme events should have been obvious.
    There were many predictions of more extreme events early on. For example, in the 1979 Charney Report, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charney_Report
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