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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,612

    Radio 4 news interviewing a Chinese representative.

    "Why would we spy on you when you have nothing we want and aren't a competitor"?

    Was simultaneously an insult and a non-denial denial, and reminiscent of Trump in asserting that black is white.

    Spying is a normal activity for governments. I expect that we are spying on China (indeed would think it very remiss of us if we weren't). We should also spy on Russia, India, USA, Argentina, Pakistan, France Germany, Ireland, pretty much everyone.

    We can probably safely omit Tuvalu.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,508
    bobbob said:

    Why is Starmer so obsessed with judaism ? Its weird and feels like he is letting his personal life interfere with his job as pm

    Wrong pm at the wrong time imo.

    How does he demonstrate this 'obsession'?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,612
    kle4 said:

    BBC News - Former Trump adviser John Bolton criminally indicted
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo

    USA continues its descent into the next level of Mafiadom.
    Almost certainly, although it does seem as though everyone in America has confidential documents in their home.
    It's a bit ironic if Bolton gets chucked in the slammer for doing much the same as Trump did when he held office.

    The revolution eats itself.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,693
    HYUFD said:

    BBC News - Former Trump adviser John Bolton criminally indicted
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo

    USA continues its descent into the next level of Mafiadom.
    Somewhat conflicted outcome for the anti war hard left, do they loathe Bolton even more than Trump, in which case they wouldn't be too sad if he was jailed despite the perhaps less than natural justice outcome likely
    You do see that from some on the left, ranking neocons like Bolton as a greater evil than Trump, and I think it's very sloppy.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,449
    kle4 said:

    BBC News - Former Trump adviser John Bolton criminally indicted
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo

    USA continues its descent into the next level of Mafiadom.
    Almost certainly, although it does seem as though everyone in America has confidential documents in their home.
    I wonder how many here would fail that test. Former prime ministers?
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,521
    Midterms in just over 12 months feel like a critical juncture in maintaining real democracy in the US.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,134
    Leon said:

    I’ve just been commissioned to go to Saudi Arabia

    they tried to send Leon to Riyadh and he said yes, yes, yes
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,397
    Foxy said:

    Radio 4 news interviewing a Chinese representative.

    "Why would we spy on you when you have nothing we want and aren't a competitor"?

    Was simultaneously an insult and a non-denial denial, and reminiscent of Trump in asserting that black is white.

    Spying is a normal activity for governments. I expect that we are spying on China (indeed would think it very remiss of us if we weren't). We should also spy on Russia, India, USA, Argentina, Pakistan, France Germany, Ireland, pretty much everyone.

    We can probably safely omit Tuvalu.
    Of course we do, as do they, although I doubt we put spyware in half the things we sell.

    It was the ridiculous denials that were amusing.

    He also said they'd already 'surpassed' the US although he didn't say in what way, exactly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,201
    Trump says he and Putin have agreed to meet in Budapest, though it's not clear when. He says their respective teams, including Secretary Rubio, will meet first.
    https://x.com/kaitlancollins/status/1978872175680438664
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067
    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve just been commissioned to go to Saudi Arabia

    they tried to send Leon to Riyadh and he said yes, yes, yes
    Very good!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,960
    So, we have now become a country where "Jews" are banned from public events? Are we Britain 2024 or Germany 1934?

    *Asking for a friend*
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,693
    Ratters said:

    Midterms in just over 12 months feel like a critical juncture in maintaining real democracy in the US.

    Yes. Last chance saloon.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,096

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    The weird thing in America is that in the morning you can meet a charming, generous, hospitable Republican and in the afternoon you can meet a charming, generous hospitable Democrat - and as an outsider what strikes you is how similar they are. And yet they utterly loathe each other

    Yes, when they actually talk to each other in person, they agree on way more than they disagree.

    #WeAreCharlieKirk
    I am not Charlie Kirk.

    I'm in DC right now and have seen a number of Trump administration officials or proxies speaking at various conferences and meetings. Two things strike me: they are often quite ill informed and they are always extremely sure that they are right. In short, they are zealots.
    Meanwhile there are troops standing around on street corners like this is some kind of third world dictatorship. This is a country heading in a very scary direction. There is simply no equivalence between Democrats and MAGA Republicans.
    There are two sorts of conversation- those that aim to share, and those that aim to convince. They are different things. Neither is intrinsically dishonourable, but dressing a persuading conversation as a sharing conversation is.
    Stephen Miran's speech a couple of weeks ago is a classic example.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    Impressive that such a complicated-sounding petition text has managed to get 82,000 signatures so far.

    "Make Play and Continuous Provision statutory in England's Key Stage 1 Curriculum
    Revise statutory guidance for KS1 to make play based pedagogy a core part of the Key Stage One National Curriculum, extending the best practice that we see in Early Years to ensure all Key Stage One children continue to have a developmentally appropriate play based approach to their learning."

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/729440
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,096
    GIN1138 said:

    So, we have now become a country where "Jews" are banned from public events? Are we Britain 2024 or Germany 1934?

    *Asking for a friend*

    QTWTAIN
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094

    Radio 4 news interviewing a Chinese representative.

    "Why would we spy on you when you have nothing we want and aren't a competitor"?

    Was simultaneously insulting and a non-denial denial, and reminiscent of Trump in asserting that black is white.

    If we have nothing they want, why are so many of their students over here?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798
    edited October 16
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC News - Former Trump adviser John Bolton criminally indicted
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo

    USA continues its descent into the next level of Mafiadom.
    Somewhat conflicted outcome for the anti war hard left, do they loathe Bolton even more than Trump, in which case they wouldn't be too sad if he was jailed despite the perhaps less than natural justice outcome likely
    You do see that from some on the left, ranking neocons like Bolton as a greater evil than Trump, and I think it's very sloppy.
    George Galloway a case in point, he loathes Bolton but preferred Trump to Hillary Clinton
  • isamisam Posts: 42,829
    What a disgrace that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans aren’t allowed to attend the game at Aston Villa. I hope Tommy Robinson and co march through Birmingham with Star of David flags that day
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,933
    GIN1138 said:

    So, we have now become a country where "Jews" are banned from public events? Are we Britain 2024 or Germany 1934?

    *Asking for a friend*

    2025 actually
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,298
    isam said:

    What a disgrace that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans aren’t allowed to attend the game at Aston Villa. I hope Tommy Robinson and co march through Birmingham with Star of David flags that day

    Who was responsible for barring them? AVFC? WMP? The council? Someone else?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,960

    GIN1138 said:

    So, we have now become a country where "Jews" are banned from public events? Are we Britain 2024 or Germany 1934?

    *Asking for a friend*

    2025 actually
    Divert. Divert. Divert. Wriggle. Wriggle. Wriggle.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,216
    isam said:

    What a disgrace that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans aren’t allowed to attend the game at Aston Villa. I hope Tommy Robinson and co march through Birmingham with Star of David flags that day

    ...because that will make things better??? 🤔
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,298

    Leon said:

    We all know why Jewish fans are banned from Birmingham but not a single PBer will state the simple reason. It is pitiful

    And it is this centrist Dad cowardice that has led the UK - and several other European nations - to such a perilous and mortifying place

    Fuck em. Israeli teams shouldn't be playing in Europe any more than Russian ones should.
    They're surrounded by countries who wish to kill them. Is it any surprise they demur from playing them at football?
    ISTR in the 80s Israel played in the Oceania division of world footbalk.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 134
    edited October 16
    kle4 said:

    bobbob said:

    Why is Starmer so obsessed with judaism ? Its weird and feels like he is letting his personal life interfere with his job as pm

    Wrong pm at the wrong time imo.

    How does he demonstrate this 'obsession'?
    Always in the news taking taking about it having personally intervened for one reason or another

    Said it before but politicians and journalists are obsessed with trans and jews. Not sure thr public care much about either. Far more interested in immigrants.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,495
    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    All I remember about him is he made a fuss about being allowed to smoke on telly or something?
    He got himself sacked from GB News for being too rude about a woman along with Dan Wootton, and has not stopped faceplanting since. He has a problem about black people, a problem about women, a problem with Sikhs, and a problem about opening his mouth before checking what actually happened. He's also done a Pride Flag as swastika, and himself in blackface.

    I'm sure there is plenty more to come.
    He sounds delightful....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    Ash Sarkar has just made a contribution on BBC Question Time which I totally agreed with, about AI.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 134
    edited October 16

    Foxy said:

    Radio 4 news interviewing a Chinese representative.

    "Why would we spy on you when you have nothing we want and aren't a competitor"?

    Was simultaneously an insult and a non-denial denial, and reminiscent of Trump in asserting that black is white.

    Spying is a normal activity for governments. I expect that we are spying on China (indeed would think it very remiss of us if we weren't). We should also spy on Russia, India, USA, Argentina, Pakistan, France Germany, Ireland, pretty much everyone.

    We can probably safely omit Tuvalu.
    Of course we do, as do they, although I doubt we put spyware in half the things we sell.
    Uhhh why?

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,755
    Andy_JS said:

    Ash Sarkar has just made a contribution on BBC Question Time which I totally agreed with, about AI.

    That it’s communist?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,271
    bobbob said:

    Why is Starmer so obsessed with judaism ? Its weird and feels like he is letting his personal life interfere with his job as pm

    Wrong pm at the wrong time imo.

    Why is the Left so obsessed with Palestine?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,306
    Andy_JS said:

    Ash Sarkar has just made a contribution on BBC Question Time which I totally agreed with, about AI.

    Stopped clock and all that....I totally agreed with a Jezza take the other week. I did feel so dirty though, I spent the rest of the week washing in dettol.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,755

    bobbob said:

    Why is Starmer so obsessed with judaism ? Its weird and feels like he is letting his personal life interfere with his job as pm

    Wrong pm at the wrong time imo.

    Why is the Left so obsessed with Palestine?
    Victims/the oppressed.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,960
    edited October 16
    On topic: Since when did a 4% lead for one party (who is +40 on it's nearest competitor who is only +10) become "neck and neck" ? 🤷‍♂️
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,495
    In somewhat off-yet-on topic, tonight I rewatched the pilot episode of 'Mr Palfrey of Westminster'. Really quite enjoyable.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0946684/

    Over the weekend I shall rewatch this episode of the series that followed (in a very Kim Philby line) :

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0652094/

    One of the best turns Leslie Phillips ever put in, imho.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094

    Andy_JS said:

    Ash Sarkar has just made a contribution on BBC Question Time which I totally agreed with, about AI.

    That it’s communist?
    That it's not necessarily a good thing, and the Silicon Valley obsessives who want it to become more powerful are possibly being a bit stupid.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    Foxy said:

    Interesting thread on why FON polls score Reform and Greens higher than other polls. Maybe they are onto something:

    Given FindOutNow polls keep making news it's worth saying a bit more about their methodology.

    Unlike other online pollsters it doesn't use a panel of people who've signed up to do polls. Instead they ask a small number of Qs to people playing the Pick my Postcode lottery. (Thread)

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3m3crvd36z22b

    Very interesting thread, thanks for flagging it up.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,861
    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve just been commissioned to go to Saudi Arabia

    they tried to send Leon to Riyadh and he said yes, yes, yes
    Don’t send us a photo of your G&T, @Leon. They may not let you out!
  • isamisam Posts: 42,829
    Fair play to Sir Keir

    This is the wrong decision.

    We will not tolerate antisemitism on our streets.

    The role of the police is to ensure all football fans can enjoy the game, without fear of violence or intimidation.


    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1978914187649618400?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,554
    Years ago, there was a good blog written by dissident Venezuelans called "The Devil's Excrement".
    https://devilexcrement.com/
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,960
    isam said:

    What a disgrace that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans aren’t allowed to attend the game at Aston Villa. I hope Tommy Robinson and co march through Birmingham with Star of David flags that day

    Is "Tommy" a friend of Jews? Really? I doubt it!
  • isamisam Posts: 42,829
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting thread on why FON polls score Reform and Greens higher than other polls. Maybe they are onto something:

    Given FindOutNow polls keep making news it's worth saying a bit more about their methodology.

    Unlike other online pollsters it doesn't use a panel of people who've signed up to do polls. Instead they ask a small number of Qs to people playing the Pick my Postcode lottery. (Thread)

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3m3crvd36z22b

    Very interesting thread, thanks for flagging it up.
    Getting the less politically engaged’s VI is something I think pollsters should have been doing for years

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-problem-with-opinion-polls-polls.html
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,960
    isam said:

    Fair play to Sir Keir

    This is the wrong decision.

    We will not tolerate antisemitism on our streets.

    The role of the police is to ensure all football fans can enjoy the game, without fear of violence or intimidation.


    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1978914187649618400?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Unfortunately, he'll be thrown overboard next year... :(
  • isamisam Posts: 42,829
    edited October 16
    GIN1138 said:

    isam said:

    What a disgrace that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans aren’t allowed to attend the game at Aston Villa. I hope Tommy Robinson and co march through Birmingham with Star of David flags that day

    Is "Tommy" a friend of Jews? Really? I doubt it!
    Well, Israel have invited him there I think. I don’t think he has a problem with anything other than extreme Islam to be honest. I wouldn’t have him down as a racist or anti semite
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,271
    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    isam said:

    What a disgrace that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans aren’t allowed to attend the game at Aston Villa. I hope Tommy Robinson and co march through Birmingham with Star of David flags that day

    Is "Tommy" a friend of Jews? Really? I doubt it!
    Well, Israel have invited him there I think. I don’t think he has a problem with anything other than extreme Islam to be honest. I wouldn’t have him down as a racist or anti semite
    I think he said "Islam is Peaceful" on Piers Morgan's show.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    I've avoided Question Time for about 10 years because it's always disappointing but maybe it's finally turned itself around because today's show is quite good. Having Matthew Syed on helps.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,554

    I wonder what the more thinking members of Trump's current circle of aides, advisors and serving executive officers think about this in the wee hours of the night?

    One day they will fall out of favour and they too will be facing a grand jury.

    This is what happens.

    I guess they are planning on the GOP never relinquishing power. If the boot is ever on the other foot again they will be lucky if they merely face prison sentences. The US is headed at speed in a direction where peaceful transitions of government tend not to occur.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    edited October 16
    Unusually, the LDs have lost a seat to Reform.

    "Babergh, Copdock and Washbrook

    RefUK 323
    LD 292
    Green 238
    Con 140
    Lab 17

    RefUK gain from LD


    Ref 31.98%
    LD 28.91%
    Grn 23.56%
    Con 13.86%
    Lab 1.68%

    LD -27.5%
    Grn +9.5%
    Con -15.7%"

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19742/local-council-elections-16th-october?page=2
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,861
    Andy_JS said:

    I've avoided Question Time for about 10 years because it's always disappointing but maybe it's finally turned itself around because today's show is quite good. Having Matthew Syed on helps.

    It would be much better if Fiona Bruce was replaced by a competent chair.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,256
    isam said:

    Fair play to Sir Keir

    This is the wrong decision.

    We will not tolerate antisemitism on our streets.

    The role of the police is to ensure all football fans can enjoy the game, without fear of violence or intimidation.


    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1978914187649618400?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Yes, fair play to him on this one.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,216
    Foxy said:

    Interesting thread on why FON polls score Reform and Greens higher than other polls. Maybe they are onto something:

    Given FindOutNow polls keep making news it's worth saying a bit more about their methodology.

    Unlike other online pollsters it doesn't use a panel of people who've signed up to do polls. Instead they ask a small number of Qs to people playing the Pick my Postcode lottery. (Thread)

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3m3crvd36z22b

    See also

    https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/how-pollsters-may-be-understating-the-reform-vote/

  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 233
    Independent win (Willie Hogg) in Ayr North, by election held due to death of sitting independent (was elected SNP in 2022)

    8 candidates, figures dont appear to be out yet
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    edited October 16
    Goodness me, they want to postpone these elections again, for another year?

    "Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    🚨 NEW: The Government is considering delaying 7 council elections for another year amid fears Reform gains could threaten its plans to overhaul local government

    [@thetimes]"

    "The councils are Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East and West Sussex and Hampshire

    Council leaders are "lobbying hard" for the elections to be pushed to 2027, ahead of new larger councils set for 2028 - a move that would extend current Tory councillors’ terms from 5 to 7 yrs"

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1978940234482983035
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,554
    As bettors, you may be interested in this story:
    Illinois Gov. JB Pritzker (D) reported $1.4 million in gambling winnings from a trip to Las Vegas last year, according to tax summaries released Thursday by his campaign.
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/10/16/pritzer-gambling-earnings-las-vegas/

    Many of you may know that -- in the past -- some US politicians had quite good luck when playing cards with lobbyists. I have no reason to think that explains Pritzker's latest winnings. (A more prudent politician would have avoid card games for high stakes.)
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,738
    glw said:

    I wonder what the more thinking members of Trump's current circle of aides, advisors and serving executive officers think about this in the wee hours of the night?

    One day they will fall out of favour and they too will be facing a grand jury.

    This is what happens.

    I guess they are planning on the GOP never relinquishing power. If the boot is ever on the other foot again they will be lucky if they merely face prison sentences. The US is headed at speed in a direction where peaceful transitions of government tend not to occur.
    The good guys always play by the rules, that's why they inevitably lose
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,960
    Andy_JS said:

    Unusually, the LDs have lost a seat to Reform.

    "Babergh, Copdock and Washbrook

    RefUK 323
    LD 292
    Green 238
    Con 140
    Lab 17

    RefUK gain from LD


    Ref 31.98%
    LD 28.91%
    Grn 23.56%
    Con 13.86%
    Lab 1.68%

    LD -27.5%
    Grn +9.5%
    Con -15.7%"

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19742/local-council-elections-16th-october?page=2

    REFORM winning here? :D
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    edited October 16
    DoctorG said:

    Independent win (Willie Hogg) in Ayr North, by election held due to death of sitting independent (was elected SNP in 2022)

    8 candidates, figures dont appear to be out yet

    Bad/lazy journalism to be honest, because they announce the votes and the winner at the same time.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,180
    edited October 16
    Andy_JS said:

    Goodness me, they want to postpone these elections again, for another year?

    "Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    🚨 NEW: The Government is considering delaying 7 council elections for another year amid fears Reform gains could threaten its plans to overhaul local government

    [@thetimes]"

    "The councils are Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East and West Sussex and Hampshire

    Council leaders are "lobbying hard" for the elections to be pushed to 2027, ahead of new larger councils set for 2028 - a move that would extend current Tory councillors’ terms from 5 to 7 yrs"

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1978940234482983035

    Much as I would rather see a Tory Council to a Reform Council this is a bit Trumpian for my tastes.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 233
    edited October 16
    Andy_JS said:

    DoctorG said:

    Independent win (Willie Hogg) in Ayr North, by election held due to death of sitting independent (was elected SNP in 2022)

    8 candidates, figures dont appear to be out yet

    Bad/lazy journalism to be honest, because they announce the votes and the winner at the same time.
    Council have announced it about 15 mins later. In order

    Ayr north

    Wullie Hogg (Independent) 850
    Ian Douglas (SNP) 790
    John Duncan (Lab) 691
    Andrew Russell (Reform) 584
    David Paterson (Con) 195
    David Petrie (Ind) 151
    Mason Graham (L dem) 78
    Orhan Bulikj (Ind) 51

    These are first pref votes, Wullie Hogg elected at stage 8

    Turnout was 27%
  • isamisam Posts: 42,829
    MP for Dewsbury & Batley.

    There’ll be plenty more of this kind of thing to come, the cat is out of the bag

    Thank you all who put the safety of Aston Villa fans, Birmingham residents snd the British public above the zionist and political pressure to let Israeli hooligans and terrorists run riot in our country.

    https://x.com/iqbalmohamedmp/status/1978894124968255833?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodness me, they want to postpone these elections again, for another year?

    "Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    🚨 NEW: The Government is considering delaying 7 council elections for another year amid fears Reform gains could threaten its plans to overhaul local government

    [@thetimes]"

    "The councils are Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East and West Sussex and Hampshire

    Council leaders are "lobbying hard" for the elections to be pushed to 2027, ahead of new larger councils set for 2028 - a move that would extend current Tory councillors’ terms from 5 to 7 yrs"

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1978940234482983035

    Much as I would rather see a Tory Council to a Reform Council this is a bit Trumpian for my tastes.
    There will be unitary elections for them in 2027, it is a complete waste of money to elect councillors to just serve a 1 year term from next year.

    Just let those 7 counties have their Mayoral election next year and then the new unitary council elections the following year. A rare sensible decision from this government
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798
    edited October 16
    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Unusually, the LDs have lost a seat to Reform.

    "Babergh, Copdock and Washbrook

    RefUK 323
    LD 292
    Green 238
    Con 140
    Lab 17

    RefUK gain from LD


    Ref 31.98%
    LD 28.91%
    Grn 23.56%
    Con 13.86%
    Lab 1.68%

    LD -27.5%
    Grn +9.5%
    Con -15.7%"

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19742/local-council-elections-16th-october?page=2

    REFORM winning here? :D
    On just 31% of the vote, the other parties voters are going to have to start to vote tactically for whichever of them is closest to Reform if they want to beat Farage not only locally but nationally at the next GE too.

    Certainly had the Greens voters tactically voted LD in this seat the LDs would almost certainly have held it and beaten Reform
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    edited October 16
    Preston, Ashton

    Lib Dem Gain from Labour

    LD Ronan Hodgson - 659
    RFM Lee Slater - 548
    LAB Mark Routledge - 429
    IND Ann Cowell - 101
    CON Kevin Brockbank 61
    IND Aran Bailey - 60


    LD 35.47% [+14.02]
    Ref 29.49% [new]
    Lab 23.09% [-35.75]
    Ind Cowell 5.44% [new]
    Con 3.28% [-16.43]
    Ind Bailey 3.23% [new]
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodness me, they want to postpone these elections again, for another year?

    "Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    🚨 NEW: The Government is considering delaying 7 council elections for another year amid fears Reform gains could threaten its plans to overhaul local government

    [@thetimes]"

    "The councils are Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East and West Sussex and Hampshire

    Council leaders are "lobbying hard" for the elections to be pushed to 2027, ahead of new larger councils set for 2028 - a move that would extend current Tory councillors’ terms from 5 to 7 yrs"

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1978940234482983035

    Much as I would rather see a Tory Council to a Reform Council this is a bit Trumpian for my tastes.
    There will be unitary elections for them in 2027, it is a complete waste of money to elect councillors to just serve a 1 year term from next year.

    Just let those 7 counties have their Mayoral election next year and then the new unitary council elections the following year. A rare sensible decision from this government
    So councillors will sit for 7 years?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,819
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting thread on why FON polls score Reform and Greens higher than other polls. Maybe they are onto something:

    Given FindOutNow polls keep making news it's worth saying a bit more about their methodology.

    Unlike other online pollsters it doesn't use a panel of people who've signed up to do polls. Instead they ask a small number of Qs to people playing the Pick my Postcode lottery. (Thread)

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3m3crvd36z22b

    Very interesting thread, thanks for flagging it up.
    There’s no way that is representative!
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 134
    edited October 16
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Unusually, the LDs have lost a seat to Reform.

    "Babergh, Copdock and Washbrook

    RefUK 323
    LD 292
    Green 238
    Con 140
    Lab 17

    RefUK gain from LD


    Ref 31.98%
    LD 28.91%
    Grn 23.56%
    Con 13.86%
    Lab 1.68%

    LD -27.5%
    Grn +9.5%
    Con -15.7%"

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19742/local-council-elections-16th-october?page=2

    REFORM winning here? :D
    On just 31% of the vote, the other parties voters are going to have to start to vote tactically for whichever of them is closest to Reform if they want to beat Farage not only locally but nationally at the next GE too.

    Certainly had the Greens voters tactically voted LD in this seat the LDs would almost certainly have held it and beaten Reform
    It will be hard for voters to know how to vote tactically with such big swings (assuming they want to as not all will)

    Think 2029 will be a mess with many seats won on low %s and small leads because of this makes it hard to predict

    Lots of constituencies could look like South West Norfolk
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,096
    isam said:

    What a disgrace that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans aren’t allowed to attend the game at Aston Villa. I hope Tommy Robinson and co march through Birmingham with Star of David flags that day

    The insanity of the modern right, that they instinctively side with foreign football hooligans rather than the British police.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    Massive LD win from Greens in Staines considering they, the LDs, didn't stand in the previous election.

    Spelthorne, Staines:

    LD 804
    Reform 499
    Ind 261
    Con 231
    Green 163
    Lab 158
    Tusc 8
    37.5%

    Lib Dem gain from Green


    LD 37.85% [new]
    Ref 23.49% [new]
    Ind 12.29% [new unless comparing to the previous ind]
    Con 10.88% [-4.73]
    Grn 7.67% [-27.84]
    Lab 7.44% [-14.07]
    TUSC 0.38% [new]

    {previous Ind -> 27.38%}
  • Andy_JS said:

    Massive LD win from Greens in Staines considering they, the LDs, didn't stand in the previous election.

    Spelthorne, Staines:

    LD 804
    Reform 499
    Ind 261
    Con 231
    Green 163
    Lab 158
    Tusc 8
    37.5%

    Lib Dem gain from Green


    LD 37.85% [new]
    Ref 23.49% [new]
    Ind 12.29% [new unless comparing to the previous ind]
    Con 10.88% [-4.73]
    Grn 7.67% [-27.84]
    Lab 7.44% [-14.07]
    TUSC 0.38% [new]

    {previous Ind -> 27.38%}

    That’s a curious one.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,978
    Andy_JS said:

    Massive LD win from Greens in Staines considering they, the LDs, didn't stand in the previous election.

    Spelthorne, Staines:

    LD 804
    Reform 499
    Ind 261
    Con 231
    Green 163
    Lab 158
    Tusc 8
    37.5%

    Lib Dem gain from Green


    LD 37.85% [new]
    Ref 23.49% [new]
    Ind 12.29% [new unless comparing to the previous ind]
    Con 10.88% [-4.73]
    Grn 7.67% [-27.84]
    Lab 7.44% [-14.07]
    TUSC 0.38% [new]

    {previous Ind -> 27.38%}

    Neither of the top two stood last time.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,180
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodness me, they want to postpone these elections again, for another year?

    "Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    🚨 NEW: The Government is considering delaying 7 council elections for another year amid fears Reform gains could threaten its plans to overhaul local government

    [@thetimes]"

    "The councils are Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East and West Sussex and Hampshire

    Council leaders are "lobbying hard" for the elections to be pushed to 2027, ahead of new larger councils set for 2028 - a move that would extend current Tory councillors’ terms from 5 to 7 yrs"

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1978940234482983035

    Much as I would rather see a Tory Council to a Reform Council this is a bit Trumpian for my tastes.
    There will be unitary elections for them in 2027, it is a complete waste of money to elect councillors to just serve a 1 year term from next year.

    Just let those 7 counties have their Mayoral election next year and then the new unitary council elections the following year. A rare sensible decision from this government
    I don't disagree, however it smells like Labour and the Tories are tucking up Reform. Sir Nigel will have a field day.

    Have you seen Bolton has been indicted at Trump's behest? It looks a stronger vindictive case than the Comey vindictive indictment.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798
    edited October 16
    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Unusually, the LDs have lost a seat to Reform.

    "Babergh, Copdock and Washbrook

    RefUK 323
    LD 292
    Green 238
    Con 140
    Lab 17

    RefUK gain from LD


    Ref 31.98%
    LD 28.91%
    Grn 23.56%
    Con 13.86%
    Lab 1.68%

    LD -27.5%
    Grn +9.5%
    Con -15.7%"

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19742/local-council-elections-16th-october?page=2

    REFORM winning here? :D
    On just 31% of the vote, the other parties voters are going to have to start to vote tactically for whichever of them is closest to Reform if they want to beat Farage not only locally but nationally at the next GE too.

    Certainly had the Greens voters tactically voted LD in this seat the LDs would almost certainly have held it and beaten Reform
    It will be hard for voters to know how to vote tactically with such big swings (assuming they want to as not all will)

    Think 2029 will be a mess with many seats won on low %s and small leads because of this makes it hard to predict

    Lots of constituencies could look like South West Norfolk
    The local elections beforehand will give a reasonable guide and otherwise the assumption will be that whichever of the non Reform parties ie Labour, Tory, LD, Green, SNP, Plaid etc won the parliamentary seat in 2024 will be the main opponent of Reform at the next GE anti Farage voters therefore have to tactically vote for. In the case of the 5 seats Reform won it will be whichever party was second to them (albeit Reform will certainly hold those seats with an increased majority)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Massive LD win from Greens in Staines considering they, the LDs, didn't stand in the previous election.

    Spelthorne, Staines:

    LD 804
    Reform 499
    Ind 261
    Con 231
    Green 163
    Lab 158
    Tusc 8
    37.5%

    Lib Dem gain from Green


    LD 37.85% [new]
    Ref 23.49% [new]
    Ind 12.29% [new unless comparing to the previous ind]
    Con 10.88% [-4.73]
    Grn 7.67% [-27.84]
    Lab 7.44% [-14.07]
    TUSC 0.38% [new]

    {previous Ind -> 27.38%}

    Neither of the top two stood last time.
    Con and Lab are not having the best of nights so far to put it mildly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodness me, they want to postpone these elections again, for another year?

    "Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    🚨 NEW: The Government is considering delaying 7 council elections for another year amid fears Reform gains could threaten its plans to overhaul local government

    [@thetimes]"

    "The councils are Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East and West Sussex and Hampshire

    Council leaders are "lobbying hard" for the elections to be pushed to 2027, ahead of new larger councils set for 2028 - a move that would extend current Tory councillors’ terms from 5 to 7 yrs"

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1978940234482983035

    Much as I would rather see a Tory Council to a Reform Council this is a bit Trumpian for my tastes.
    There will be unitary elections for them in 2027, it is a complete waste of money to elect councillors to just serve a 1 year term from next year.

    Just let those 7 counties have their Mayoral election next year and then the new unitary council elections the following year. A rare sensible decision from this government
    So councillors will sit for 7 years?
    6 in terms of county councillors there, Shadow authorities will arrive from those elected in 2027 becoming the full unitaries in 2027. Taxpayers won't have to pay millions either for elected councillors for one year terms.

    French presidential elections used to be every 7 years, arguably the best system, ensures enough time to govern properly without constant populist protest votes
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,180
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodness me, they want to postpone these elections again, for another year?

    "Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    🚨 NEW: The Government is considering delaying 7 council elections for another year amid fears Reform gains could threaten its plans to overhaul local government

    [@thetimes]"

    "The councils are Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East and West Sussex and Hampshire

    Council leaders are "lobbying hard" for the elections to be pushed to 2027, ahead of new larger councils set for 2028 - a move that would extend current Tory councillors’ terms from 5 to 7 yrs"

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1978940234482983035

    Much as I would rather see a Tory Council to a Reform Council this is a bit Trumpian for my tastes.
    There will be unitary elections for them in 2027, it is a complete waste of money to elect councillors to just serve a 1 year term from next year.

    Just let those 7 counties have their Mayoral election next year and then the new unitary council elections the following year. A rare sensible decision from this government
    So councillors will sit for 7 years?
    6 in terms of county councillors there, Shadow authorities will arrive from those elected in 2027 becoming the full unitaries in 2027. Taxpayers won't have to pay millions either for elected councillors for one year terms.

    French presidential elections used to be every 7 years, arguably the best system, ensures enough time to govern properly without constant populist protest votes
    The practical element of this counts for nothing. Farage will say he is being disadvantaged or even knobbled by the Labour-Tory cabal. The axis of elitist evil, if you like.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,245
    Lib Dems are smashing it in Surrey.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067
    I’m gonna say it again, America is now richer than Europe to a quite astonishing degree. Seattle airport is at Doha/Singapore levels of public opulence

    And this is just Seattle airport. It’s not the great national flagship

    And you see this wealth everywhere. It’s not pockets of affluence. The affluence is ubiquitous, it’s poverty you see in pockets
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798
    edited 12:13AM

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodness me, they want to postpone these elections again, for another year?

    "Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    🚨 NEW: The Government is considering delaying 7 council elections for another year amid fears Reform gains could threaten its plans to overhaul local government

    [@thetimes]"

    "The councils are Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East and West Sussex and Hampshire

    Council leaders are "lobbying hard" for the elections to be pushed to 2027, ahead of new larger councils set for 2028 - a move that would extend current Tory councillors’ terms from 5 to 7 yrs"

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1978940234482983035

    Much as I would rather see a Tory Council to a Reform Council this is a bit Trumpian for my tastes.
    There will be unitary elections for them in 2027, it is a complete waste of money to elect councillors to just serve a 1 year term from next year.

    Just let those 7 counties have their Mayoral election next year and then the new unitary council elections the following year. A rare sensible decision from this government
    So councillors will sit for 7 years?
    6 in terms of county councillors there, Shadow authorities will arrive from those elected in 2027 becoming the full unitaries in 2027. Taxpayers won't have to pay millions either for elected councillors for one year terms.

    French presidential elections used to be every 7 years, arguably the best system, ensures enough time to govern properly without constant populist protest votes
    The practical element of this counts for nothing. Farage will say he is being disadvantaged or even knobbled by the Labour-Tory cabal. The axis of elitist evil, if you like.
    Who cares? Reform would near sweep the board next year in all those counties save Surrey and the poshest parts of Hampshire and Suffolk and Norfolk and Chelmsford on current polls if elections went ahead next year.

    Delaying them to 2027 might allow better awareness of tactical voting by his opponents, maybe too with more electable Cleverly and Burnham having replaced Kemi and Starmer as Tory and Labour leaders too
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067
    edited 12:14AM
    I now believe those stories about Yanqui car wash managers earning as much as UK Cabinet Ministers

    When was the cis-Atlantic gulf in wealth last this large? Just after world war 2?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    Surrey, Camberley West

    Lib Dem gain from Con

    Alan Ashbery (LD) 1,617
    RFM 845
    CON 666
    LAB 140

    LD 49.48% [+16.61]
    Ref 25.86% [new]
    Con 20.38% [-28.80]
    Lab 4.28% [-11.40]

    {WP which polled 2.27% last time}


    Surrey, Guildford South East

    Lib Dem gain from Residents

    LD 1426
    Con 788
    Res 565
    Reform 416
    Green 172
    Lab 89
    33% turnout


    LD 41.26% [+18.04]
    Con 22.80% [-8.07]
    Res 16.35% [-21.35]
    Ref 12.04% [new]
    Grn 4.98% [new]
    Lab 2.58% [-5.63]
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067
    Americans don’t realise how lucky they are, and Europeans are only beginning to realise how fucked they are
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798
    edited 12:18AM
    Leon said:

    I’m gonna say it again, America is now richer than Europe to a quite astonishing degree. Seattle airport is at Doha/Singapore levels of public opulence

    And this is just Seattle airport. It’s not the great national flagship

    And you see this wealth everywhere. It’s not pockets of affluence. The affluence is ubiquitous, it’s poverty you see in pockets

    Depends which parts. Switzerland, Luxembourg, London and Surrey and Monaco and Norway are certainly far richer than Alabama, West Virginia, Arkansas, New Mexico etc. Seattle by contrast is part of the IT and tech hub of the US with Silicon Valley.

    The US also has more extreme poverty than most western nations with very limited welfare state, little social and public housing and no public healthcare for most, I have never seen more homeless people in a developed nation than I did when I went to Los Angeles for example
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,874
    Andy_JS said:

    Ash Sarkar has just made a contribution on BBC Question Time which I totally agreed with, about AI.

    As professional commentator it must be hard knowing your entire industry can now be replaced by a very small drivel bot.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798
    Leon said:

    Americans don’t realise how lucky they are, and Europeans are only beginning to realise how fucked they are

    An American who is unemployed or needs regular healthcare but can't afford private health insurance is certainly not lucky. The US minimum wage is also far lower now than that in the UK or most of Europe.

    Americans earning over $100 000 fair enough are very lucky, with much lower tax than most of Europe, bigger homes and able to have more expensive food and consumer goods and smarter cars and afford the best private healthcare and private schools for their children or top public schools in wealthy suburbs
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067
    edited 12:22AM
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I’m gonna say it again, America is now richer than Europe to a quite astonishing degree. Seattle airport is at Doha/Singapore levels of public opulence

    And this is just Seattle airport. It’s not the great national flagship

    And you see this wealth everywhere. It’s not pockets of affluence. The affluence is ubiquitous, it’s poverty you see in pockets

    Depends which parts. Switzerland, Luxembourg, London and Surrey and Monaco and Norway are certainly far richer than Alabama, West Virginia, Arkansas, New Mexico etc. Seattle by contrast is part of the IT and tech hub of the US with Silicon Valley.

    The US also has more extreme poverty than most western nations with very limited welfare state, little social and public housing and no public healthcare for most, I have never seen more homeless people in a developed nation than I did when I went to Los Angeles for example
    Your take is outdated

    I’ve seen vast and obvious wealth on 90% of this drive. From LA up to Seattle

    Sure there are rundown towns. I saw them. Grisly. But we have easily as bad in the UK, just different in looks. Hopeless towns

    In the last year I’ve also been to four of the five poorest states in the union. Kentucky, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia. Even there the poverty is limited. There are also rich towns and lavish suburbs

    It’s terrifying how Europe is being left for dust
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067
    Also, saying “well Mayfair is still richer than Alabama” isn’t really that much consolation
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798
    edited 12:24AM
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I’m gonna say it again, America is now richer than Europe to a quite astonishing degree. Seattle airport is at Doha/Singapore levels of public opulence

    And this is just Seattle airport. It’s not the great national flagship

    And you see this wealth everywhere. It’s not pockets of affluence. The affluence is ubiquitous, it’s poverty you see in pockets

    Depends which parts. Switzerland, Luxembourg, London and Surrey and Monaco and Norway are certainly far richer than Alabama, West Virginia, Arkansas, New Mexico etc. Seattle by contrast is part of the IT and tech hub of the US with Silicon Valley.

    The US also has more extreme poverty than most western nations with very limited welfare state, little social and public housing and no public healthcare for most, I have never seen more homeless people in a developed nation than I did when I went to Los Angeles for example
    Your take is outdated

    I’ve seen vast and obvious wealth on 90% of this drive. From LA up to Seattle

    Sure there are rundown towns. I saw them. Terrible. But we have easily as bad in the UK, just different in looks. Hopeless towns

    In the last year I’ve also been to four of the five poorest states in the union. Kentucky, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia. Even there the poverty is limited. There are also rich towns and lavish suburbs

    It’s terrifying how Europe is being left for dust
    'From LA up to Seattle' ie about the wealthiest part of the US apart from NYC and DC and their commuter belts.

    If you are unemployed or on minimum wage in Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia etc you are certainly better off in most of Europe
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I’m gonna say it again, America is now richer than Europe to a quite astonishing degree. Seattle airport is at Doha/Singapore levels of public opulence

    And this is just Seattle airport. It’s not the great national flagship

    And you see this wealth everywhere. It’s not pockets of affluence. The affluence is ubiquitous, it’s poverty you see in pockets

    Depends which parts. Switzerland, Luxembourg, London and Surrey and Monaco and Norway are certainly far richer than Alabama, West Virginia, Arkansas, New Mexico etc. Seattle by contrast is part of the IT and tech hub of the US with Silicon Valley.

    The US also has more extreme poverty than most western nations with very limited welfare state, little social and public housing and no public healthcare for most, I have never seen more homeless people in a developed nation than I did when I went to Los Angeles for example
    Your take is outdated

    I’ve seen vast and obvious wealth on 90% of this drive. From LA up to Seattle

    Sure there are rundown towns. I saw them. Terrible. But we have easily as bad in the UK, just different in looks. Hopeless towns

    In the last year I’ve also been to four of the five poorest states in the union. Kentucky, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia. Even there the poverty is limited. There are also rich towns and lavish suburbs

    It’s terrifying how Europe is being left for dust
    'From LA up to Seattle' ie about the wealthiest part of the US apart from NYC and DC and their commuter belts.

    If you are unemployed or on minimum wage in Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia etc you are certainly better off in most of Europe
    But most Americans are not “unemployed in West Virginia”

    The American economy is an astonishing wealth-creating machine

    Inter alia I have been listening to “valley of genius” on audiobook throughout this drive. A history of Silicon Valley. It is superb. An oral history of American innovation. It also makes it quite plain how America has boomed as Europe has stagnated
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    Trafford, Broadheath

    Con gain from Lab — [Lab were defending a majority of 6 votes over Con]

    Con 1614
    Lab 978
    LD 841
    Ref 723
    Grn 204
    Ind 22[/quote]

    Con 36.83% [-4.36]
    Lab 22.32% [-19.02]
    LD 19.19% [+14.88]
    Ref 16.50% [+11.22]
    Grn 4.66% [-1.87]
    Ind 0.50% [-0.85]

    Turnout 49.6%
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798
    edited 12:37AM
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I’m gonna say it again, America is now richer than Europe to a quite astonishing degree. Seattle airport is at Doha/Singapore levels of public opulence

    And this is just Seattle airport. It’s not the great national flagship

    And you see this wealth everywhere. It’s not pockets of affluence. The affluence is ubiquitous, it’s poverty you see in pockets

    Depends which parts. Switzerland, Luxembourg, London and Surrey and Monaco and Norway are certainly far richer than Alabama, West Virginia, Arkansas, New Mexico etc. Seattle by contrast is part of the IT and tech hub of the US with Silicon Valley.

    The US also has more extreme poverty than most western nations with very limited welfare state, little social and public housing and no public healthcare for most, I have never seen more homeless people in a developed nation than I did when I went to Los Angeles for example
    Your take is outdated

    I’ve seen vast and obvious wealth on 90% of this drive. From LA up to Seattle

    Sure there are rundown towns. I saw them. Terrible. But we have easily as bad in the UK, just different in looks. Hopeless towns

    In the last year I’ve also been to four of the five poorest states in the union. Kentucky, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia. Even there the poverty is limited. There are also rich towns and lavish suburbs

    It’s terrifying how Europe is being left for dust
    'From LA up to Seattle' ie about the wealthiest part of the US apart from NYC and DC and their commuter belts.

    If you are unemployed or on minimum wage in Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia etc you are certainly better off in most of Europe
    But most Americans are not “unemployed in West Virginia”

    The American economy is an astonishing wealth-creating machine

    Inter alia I have been listening to “valley of genius” on audiobook throughout this drive. A history of Silicon Valley. It is superb. An oral history of American innovation. It also makes it quite plain how America has boomed as Europe has stagnated
    Some are though and many more are on minimum wage which is significantly lower in West Virginia than it is now in the UK.

    Trump's tariffs are also starting to push up inflation which will hit Main Street US and even Silicon Valley in terms of its import costs, with not much evidence yet of a surge in rustbelt manufacturing jobs Trump voters voted for. Seattle went a massive 73% for Harris anyway, in Silicon Valley a huge 80% of San Francisco county went for Harris, ironically the most educated and highest earning US voters voted for the losing Democrats last year. Harris was the first Democrat presidential candidate ever to win most voters earning over $100k a year
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I’m gonna say it again, America is now richer than Europe to a quite astonishing degree. Seattle airport is at Doha/Singapore levels of public opulence

    And this is just Seattle airport. It’s not the great national flagship

    And you see this wealth everywhere. It’s not pockets of affluence. The affluence is ubiquitous, it’s poverty you see in pockets

    Depends which parts. Switzerland, Luxembourg, London and Surrey and Monaco and Norway are certainly far richer than Alabama, West Virginia, Arkansas, New Mexico etc. Seattle by contrast is part of the IT and tech hub of the US with Silicon Valley.

    The US also has more extreme poverty than most western nations with very limited welfare state, little social and public housing and no public healthcare for most, I have never seen more homeless people in a developed nation than I did when I went to Los Angeles for example
    Your take is outdated

    I’ve seen vast and obvious wealth on 90% of this drive. From LA up to Seattle

    Sure there are rundown towns. I saw them. Grisly. But we have easily as bad in the UK, just different in looks. Hopeless towns

    In the last year I’ve also been to four of the five poorest states in the union. Kentucky, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia. Even there the poverty is limited. There are also rich towns and lavish suburbs

    It’s terrifying how Europe is being left for dust
    I suppose the question is: where would the average person prefer to live? USA or north-west Europe.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I’m gonna say it again, America is now richer than Europe to a quite astonishing degree. Seattle airport is at Doha/Singapore levels of public opulence

    And this is just Seattle airport. It’s not the great national flagship

    And you see this wealth everywhere. It’s not pockets of affluence. The affluence is ubiquitous, it’s poverty you see in pockets

    Depends which parts. Switzerland, Luxembourg, London and Surrey and Monaco and Norway are certainly far richer than Alabama, West Virginia, Arkansas, New Mexico etc. Seattle by contrast is part of the IT and tech hub of the US with Silicon Valley.

    The US also has more extreme poverty than most western nations with very limited welfare state, little social and public housing and no public healthcare for most, I have never seen more homeless people in a developed nation than I did when I went to Los Angeles for example
    Your take is outdated

    I’ve seen vast and obvious wealth on 90% of this drive. From LA up to Seattle

    Sure there are rundown towns. I saw them. Grisly. But we have easily as bad in the UK, just different in looks. Hopeless towns

    In the last year I’ve also been to four of the five poorest states in the union. Kentucky, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia. Even there the poverty is limited. There are also rich towns and lavish suburbs

    It’s terrifying how Europe is being left for dust
    I suppose the question is: where would the average person prefer to live? USA or north-west Europe.
    Cost of living, especially for healthcare swings it for Europe I think..🧐🤨
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798
    edited 12:40AM
    Andy_JS said:

    Trafford, Broadheath

    Con gain from Lab — [Lab were defending a majority of 6 votes over Con]

    Con 1614
    Lab 978
    LD 841
    Ref 723
    Grn 204
    Ind 22[/quote]

    Con 36.83% [-4.36]
    Lab 22.32% [-19.02]
    LD 19.19% [+14.88]
    Ref 16.50% [+11.22]
    Grn 4.66% [-1.87]
    Ind 0.50% [-0.85]

    Turnout 49.6%

    Looks like some Conservative votes gained from Labour there also nearly outweighed Conservative votes lost to Reform
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,798
    edited 12:41AM
    Leon said:

    Also, saying “well Mayfair is still richer than Alabama” isn’t really that much consolation

    It is if you live in Mayfair and say have a penthouse in Manhattan and perhaps a beach house in Florida as well
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,180
    Leon said:

    Americans don’t realise how lucky they are, and Europeans are only beginning to realise how fucked they are

    You won't be drinking as much as you have been drinking tonight when you are a guest of the House of Saud.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,094

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I’m gonna say it again, America is now richer than Europe to a quite astonishing degree. Seattle airport is at Doha/Singapore levels of public opulence

    And this is just Seattle airport. It’s not the great national flagship

    And you see this wealth everywhere. It’s not pockets of affluence. The affluence is ubiquitous, it’s poverty you see in pockets

    Depends which parts. Switzerland, Luxembourg, London and Surrey and Monaco and Norway are certainly far richer than Alabama, West Virginia, Arkansas, New Mexico etc. Seattle by contrast is part of the IT and tech hub of the US with Silicon Valley.

    The US also has more extreme poverty than most western nations with very limited welfare state, little social and public housing and no public healthcare for most, I have never seen more homeless people in a developed nation than I did when I went to Los Angeles for example
    Your take is outdated

    I’ve seen vast and obvious wealth on 90% of this drive. From LA up to Seattle

    Sure there are rundown towns. I saw them. Grisly. But we have easily as bad in the UK, just different in looks. Hopeless towns

    In the last year I’ve also been to four of the five poorest states in the union. Kentucky, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia. Even there the poverty is limited. There are also rich towns and lavish suburbs

    It’s terrifying how Europe is being left for dust
    I suppose the question is: where would the average person prefer to live? USA or north-west Europe.
    Cost of living, especially for healthcare swings it for Europe I think..🧐🤨
    We all know the USA is a great place to live if you're in the top 30%.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I’m gonna say it again, America is now richer than Europe to a quite astonishing degree. Seattle airport is at Doha/Singapore levels of public opulence

    And this is just Seattle airport. It’s not the great national flagship

    And you see this wealth everywhere. It’s not pockets of affluence. The affluence is ubiquitous, it’s poverty you see in pockets

    Depends which parts. Switzerland, Luxembourg, London and Surrey and Monaco and Norway are certainly far richer than Alabama, West Virginia, Arkansas, New Mexico etc. Seattle by contrast is part of the IT and tech hub of the US with Silicon Valley.

    The US also has more extreme poverty than most western nations with very limited welfare state, little social and public housing and no public healthcare for most, I have never seen more homeless people in a developed nation than I did when I went to Los Angeles for example
    Your take is outdated

    I’ve seen vast and obvious wealth on 90% of this drive. From LA up to Seattle

    Sure there are rundown towns. I saw them. Grisly. But we have easily as bad in the UK, just different in looks. Hopeless towns

    In the last year I’ve also been to four of the five poorest states in the union. Kentucky, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia. Even there the poverty is limited. There are also rich towns and lavish suburbs

    It’s terrifying how Europe is being left for dust
    I suppose the question is: where would the average person prefer to live? USA or north-west Europe.
    Cost of living, especially for healthcare swings it for Europe I think..🧐🤨
    Yeah. The NHS. Envy of the world

    JeeeZ

    The only thing Europe has going for it now is, well, Europe. It’s so beautiful and varied and historic and packed into a small space. It is by far the most beautiful and interesting corner of the world, even as it grows more stagnant daily

    America is endlessly wealthy but also a tiny bit monotonous in culture. Drive for five hours and you’re still in the land of strip malls. Drive for five hours across Europe and you go from Venice to Munich - through the Alps

    However if I was young I’d think “fuck this I can come to Europe on holiday” and I would be praying that Trump brings in that law favouring European refugees and migrants

  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067

    Leon said:

    Americans don’t realise how lucky they are, and Europeans are only beginning to realise how fucked they are

    You won't be drinking as much as you have been drinking tonight when you are a guest of the House of Saud.
    Er, it’s 5pm and I’ve had half a glass of Californian white
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,180
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Americans don’t realise how lucky they are, and Europeans are only beginning to realise how fucked they are

    You won't be drinking as much as you have been drinking tonight when you are a guest of the House of Saud.
    Er, it’s 5pm and I’ve had half a glass of Californian white
    It must be a quart glass. How else should we explain your pro-USA, anti- European treason?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,367
    edited 1:03AM
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Goodness me, they want to postpone these elections again, for another year?

    "Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    🚨 NEW: The Government is considering delaying 7 council elections for another year amid fears Reform gains could threaten its plans to overhaul local government

    [@thetimes]"

    "The councils are Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East and West Sussex and Hampshire

    Council leaders are "lobbying hard" for the elections to be pushed to 2027, ahead of new larger councils set for 2028 - a move that would extend current Tory councillors’ terms from 5 to 7 yrs"

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1978940234482983035

    Much as I would rather see a Tory Council to a Reform Council this is a bit Trumpian for my tastes.
    There will be unitary elections for them in 2027, it is a complete waste of money to elect councillors to just serve a 1 year term from next year.

    Just let those 7 counties have their Mayoral election next year and then the new unitary council elections the following year. A rare sensible decision from this government
    So councillors will sit for 7 years?
    6 in terms of county councillors there, Shadow authorities will arrive from those elected in 2027 becoming the full unitaries in 2027. Taxpayers won't have to pay millions either for elected councillors for one year terms.

    French presidential elections used to be every 7 years, arguably the best system, ensures enough time to govern properly without constant populist protest votes
    My assumption would have been that those Counties wouldn't have another election ever again. They were due an all-out election this year, why just postpone it for a year? Makes no sense to elect a council for one year rather than two.

    The question is, what happens to the District councillors due to be elected in 2026?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,252
    Andy_JS said:

    Surrey, Camberley West

    Lib Dem gain from Con

    Alan Ashbery (LD) 1,617
    RFM 845
    CON 666
    LAB 140

    LD 49.48% [+16.61]
    Ref 25.86% [new]
    Con 20.38% [-28.80]
    Lab 4.28% [-11.40]

    {WP which polled 2.27% last time}


    Surrey, Guildford South East

    Lib Dem gain from Residents

    LD 1426
    Con 788
    Res 565
    Reform 416
    Green 172
    Lab 89
    33% turnout


    LD 41.26% [+18.04]
    Con 22.80% [-8.07]
    Res 16.35% [-21.35]
    Ref 12.04% [new]
    Grn 4.98% [new]
    Lab 2.58% [-5.63]

    The Guildford seat was previously a Tory seat lost to R4GV last time around.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 134
    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Unusually, the LDs have lost a seat to Reform.

    "Babergh, Copdock and Washbrook

    RefUK 323
    LD 292
    Green 238
    Con 140
    Lab 17

    RefUK gain from LD


    Ref 31.98%
    LD 28.91%
    Grn 23.56%
    Con 13.86%
    Lab 1.68%

    LD -27.5%
    Grn +9.5%
    Con -15.7%"

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19742/local-council-elections-16th-october?page=2

    REFORM winning here? :D
    On just 31% of the vote, the other parties voters are going to have to start to vote tactically for whichever of them is closest to Reform if they want to beat Farage not only locally but nationally at the next GE too.

    Certainly had the Greens voters tactically voted LD in this seat the LDs would almost certainly have held it and beaten Reform
    It will be hard for voters to know how to vote tactically with such big swings (assuming they want to as not all will)

    Think 2029 will be a mess with many seats won on low %s and small leads because of this makes it hard to predict

    Lots of constituencies could look like South West Norfolk
    The local elections beforehand will give a reasonable guide and otherwise the assumption will be that whichever of the non Reform parties ie Labour, Tory, LD, Green, SNP, Plaid etc won the parliamentary seat in 2024 will be the main opponent of Reform at the next GE anti Farage voters therefore have to tactically vote for. In the case of the 5 seats Reform won it will be whichever party was second to them (albeit Reform will certainly hold those seats with an increased majority)
    Ehh I’m not sure how many people will blindly vote anti-reform tactically ignoring all other political beliefs.

    Also this gov and Starmer is so divisive and unpopular that I can see people thinking “I don’t want reform to win but I don’t want Labour to win either” and working out how to vote based on that. Could see Lib Dem’s over performing in places based on this
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