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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,508

    Prince Andrew met the top Chinese official at the centre of the Beijing spy case at least three times, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The top chinese official was 17 years old?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,508

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Xi is firing more generals than Trump did - six in ten of the senior leadership..

    Who has Xi purged from the CCP Central Committee?

    Attendance at next week's Fourth Plenum will reveal the extent of his recent "purge surge"

    If all rumors are true, only 168/205 members (82%) and 159/171 alternates (93%) will be there

    And only 17/44 of PLA members (39%)!

    https://x.com/neilthomas123/status/1978499540836552864

    I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that he hasn't cleared out yes-men to replace them with people who will challenge him, thus improving the quality of decision-making.
    The worrying thing about this is the highly disproportionate number of military leaders who appear to have been purged.

    If it's about the ageing Xi being in a hurry to cement his legacy, then it might be more than a bit worrying.

    Anyone know if the hard liners are the ones purged, or those still in place ?
    Markets have no clue how to price this sort of geopol risk, so they tend to just ignore it until it happens and then correct sharply. But the risk of a major conflagration between the US and China is far higher than many are prepared to admit.
    The risk of a violent conflagration is extremely low, nuclear weapons ensure that.

    The risk of an economic one? Very high.

    Given how much debt the USA is in, and its persistent deficit, they are very vulnerable to that too.
    Sorry to say but that’s a very complacent view.
    Yes; Taiwan doesn't have nuclear weapons.
    It would be very difficult for China to take Taiwan without resorting to nuclear weapons. I doubt they want the Island that much.
    Emperor Xi isn't getting any younger though.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,345
    kle4 said:

    I remember when the FA wouldn't light up Wembley arch to recognise Oct 7th, despite having done it for lots of previous incidents, something something worried about Austrlia when they play an Arab team.

    And now the policy no signs of support in such a manner.

    Telling that the policy had to be updated on that specific issue. Says more than they probably thuoght it did.
    It was absolutely disgraceful.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,274
    viewcode said:
    In the comments:

    Hi Jay and Mark, the map you used in your thumbnail and at 0:58 is very inaccurate but has sadly been rapidly spreading all over the internet. Most of what is depicted as 'sea' in 1300, was in fact perfectly walkable land with towns and cities on it.

    I have done some research on this map a couple of years ago, and it turned out it was created in 2017 by a Reddit user. While this person undoubtedly had no bad intentions, he severely misinterpreted another map that he used as a source. This original map was made by professor Sander van der Leeuw, who intended to depict all areas where any drainage had occurred at all - rather than actual sea being turned into land. Professor Van der Leeuw confirmed this in an e-mail to me: "I intended to summarize the drained swamps and lakes, some of which were created by the inhabitants of the various periods concerned. I did not intend to depict actual sea turned into land."
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,559

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Utterly disgusting, that Villa decision.

    Ban Jews from supporting their club because people are so racist they might not be safe? What a disgraceful victim-blaming attitude.

    Villa are a crap club with wankers for fans.

    The West Mids Police are a disgrace.
    Not sure how much this is Villa's fault.

    The Police much more to blame.

    If Villa and the Police can't ensure safety it should be relocated to be played in another country that can keep fans safe.


    I never said it was Villa’s fault. I just made an observation about the club and its supporters.
    Macabi Tel Aviv fans are not always the peace-loving soccerballists some on pb imagine.
    Some football supporters have a tendency towards bad behaviour.

    That’s hardly news. Even my beloved Birmingham City has the odd one or two pre-disposed towards violence including one of my former Managers
    This is the lot who were chanting such lovely things over in Amsterdam? Something about there being 'no schools in Gaza' and 'may your village burn' also quite a bit of wishing death to Arabs? One can't understand why the police wouldn't want them in Birmingham.

    Would our PBers who dislike the Gaza protests also defend this bunch of extremists?
    As a supporter of a club with a reputation for violent fans it is only a small minority who engage in such stuff. No it is not right or defendable but why just single them out if this is the issue.

    Why just ban the Israeli teams supporters.

    What about England fans who sing ‘2 world wars’, ‘no surrender to the IRA/Taleban’ or the song about German bombers ?

    Celtic and Rangers fans with their sectarian chants about the North of Ireland.

    Why not ban other clubs with equally awful fans. In Newcastle when they were last in the champions league the opposition fans hardly disnguished themselves as model supporters. No one calls for bans on them.
    Are the chants and actions of the Maccabi fans really equivalent to England fans chanting the classics? I think I would share your view if we hadn't seen what they got up to in Amsterdam. They have form, are universally known to be pretty horrible and Birmingham is not the place for it.
    Plenty of European teams fans are. ‘Universally known’ to be scumbags.

    So if the fans are that bad why were they not banned from away games full stop ?

    If there is a problem it should be dealt with by UEFA and why should all fans be punished for the actions of a minority. Anyway in Amsterdam the home supporters were hardly blameless.

    We’ve had Italian and east European fans with far right leanings not banned.
    I don't know why they weren’t banned for it. Of course the footballing precedent is to ban all fans if enough cause trouble so this situation is not unique to the Israelis. And yes the Amsterdam fracas was not just Maccabi fans but they didn't help themselves, I remember that they were cheering during a minutes silence for flood victims, more of a Millwall approach to international relations.
    England fans boo other nations National Anthems.

    Guess that’s just patriotism
  • new iPhone fun. Need to log into my microsoft account. On the authenticator app. What does the login on the authenticator app require? Yup - a code from the authenticator app/

    I hate Microsoft
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,756

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Utterly disgusting, that Villa decision.

    Ban Jews from supporting their club because people are so racist they might not be safe? What a disgraceful victim-blaming attitude.

    Villa are a crap club with wankers for fans.

    The West Mids Police are a disgrace.
    Not sure how much this is Villa's fault.

    The Police much more to blame.

    If Villa and the Police can't ensure safety it should be relocated to be played in another country that can keep fans safe.


    I never said it was Villa’s fault. I just made an observation about the club and its supporters.
    Macabi Tel Aviv fans are not always the peace-loving soccerballists some on pb imagine.
    Cute victim-blaming there.

    That's not the reason they're being banned, though, is it?

    Galatasaray fans and other clubs fans aren't always peace-loving, but they're not banned.
    This episode is as shameful a moment for modern Britain as I can remember.
    The Chief Constable of West Midlands really should resign. This is appalling.
    I can understand the concern. But the response is wrong. Move the game. Abroad if necessary.
    Feck off. Send the army in, if necessary. The very idea that it is simply not safe for fans to come and watch a football match in this country is nothing short of humiliating.
    I don't think we should be under the illusion that Maccabi fans are angels. Any trouble would almost certainly be partly their doing. But the problem is specific to certain locations.

    I reckon the god-awful Bet365 in Stoke would be a better venue as no one is making the effort to go there to cause trouble.
    Weirdly it is that long ago that Stoke had a really bad reputation for trouble.
    You're talking about football fans looking for trouble! I'm sure Stoke still have their fare-share of trouble makers.
    Stoke "firm" had a crap name, Naughty Forty, but they were still going strong in the noughties when lots of other clubs had managed to quieten the trouble.

    Post covid my club Crewe has managed to somehow go from a family friendly club to being featured on a hooligan documentary. Nothing like the 80s, but 100s of little scrouts who attack away fans arriving by train.
    I always found Port Vale to be a bit edgy. Although I did have a pint with some of their casuals on one visit.
    Watching Swindon there a few years back one of the police out side said ‘Inhope you bloody stuff em”. Turned out he was a Stoke fan. Never felt anything round Port Vale. Did once go to Luton vs Watford with a mate, which was ‘fun’.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,756
    Leon said:

    The weird thing in America is that in the morning you can meet a charming, generous, hospitable Republican and in the afternoon you can meet a charming, generous hospitable Democrat - and as an outsider what strikes you is how similar they are. And yet they utterly loathe each other

    Do they? Or is the amplifying effect of social media shouting loudly plus 24 h news?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,756
    Cookie said:

    Denizens of thisbiarf might be interested to know I am at an evenin with Jimmy Anderson at tge Lowry. Amongst otger things, he is entertainingly disparaging about tge Hundred.

    From your typing, drinks have been taken…
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,756

    Cookie said:

    Denizens of thisbiarf might be interested to know I am at an evenin with Jimmy Anderson at tge Lowry. Amongst otger things, he is entertainingly disparaging about tge Hundred.

    What sort of person actually likes the 100?
    Non cricket fans who take their young kids.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,207
    This needs to be front and centre of future UK defence procurement.
    We should not be wasting billions on Ajax and Challenger 3 until we work through this.

    https://x.com/nicholadrummond/status/1978729260274561287
    NATO armies cannot revise their manoeuvre doctrine until they have acquired significant air defence and counter-drone capabilities. When we can blast aerial threats out of the sky at will, we’ll be able to test new combined arms tactics and see whether heavy armour has a future.

    The modern battlefield has changed forever.

    I’ve seen it firsthand over the last three and a half years training Ukrainian soldiers as a volunteer combat advisor/trainer across multiple fronts.

    What used to be decided by armour, artillery, and speed is now dictated by what happens above your head. Drones, loitering munitions, and constant aerial reconnaissance have redefined how we fight, move, and survive.

    No NATO army can realistically revise its manoeuvre doctrine until it achieves real dominance in air defence and counter-drone warfare. I’ve watched entire Ukrainian units learn to adapt under constant drone threat—changing routes, dispersing formations, even halting movement entirely just to avoid being spotted. In this environment, no tank, no infantry column, and no convoy can operate freely without protection from the air.

    The lesson is clear: before manoeuvre warfare can evolve, we must first reclaim freedom of movement under the sky. NATO must invest heavily in short-, medium-, and long-range air defence systems and make counter-drone training part of every combat unit’s core curriculum.

    Once we can neutralize aerial threats at will, only then can we truly test the future of combined arms tactics and determine whether heavy armour still has a meaningful role.

    I’ve watched Ukrainian soldiers learn, adapt, and fight through conditions that most Western armies have never faced. Their experience should guide NATO’s future doctrine, not the other way around.
    ..
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,141

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Utterly disgusting, that Villa decision.

    Ban Jews from supporting their club because people are so racist they might not be safe? What a disgraceful victim-blaming attitude.

    Villa are a crap club with wankers for fans.

    The West Mids Police are a disgrace.
    Not sure how much this is Villa's fault.

    The Police much more to blame.

    If Villa and the Police can't ensure safety it should be relocated to be played in another country that can keep fans safe.


    I never said it was Villa’s fault. I just made an observation about the club and its supporters.
    Macabi Tel Aviv fans are not always the peace-loving soccerballists some on pb imagine.
    Cute victim-blaming there.

    That's not the reason they're being banned, though, is it?

    Galatasaray fans and other clubs fans aren't always peace-loving, but they're not banned.
    This episode is as shameful a moment for modern Britain as I can remember.
    The Chief Constable of West Midlands really should resign. This is appalling.
    I can understand the concern. But the response is wrong. Move the game. Abroad if necessary.
    Feck off. Send the army in, if necessary. The very idea that it is simply not safe for fans to come and watch a football match in this country is nothing short of humiliating.
    I don't think we should be under the illusion that Maccabi fans are angels. Any trouble would almost certainly be partly their doing. But the problem is specific to certain locations.

    I reckon the god-awful Bet365 in Stoke would be a better venue as no one is making the effort to go there to cause trouble.
    Weirdly it is that long ago that Stoke had a really bad reputation for trouble.
    You're talking about football fans looking for trouble! I'm sure Stoke still have their fare-share of trouble makers.
    Stoke "firm" had a crap name, Naughty Forty, but they were still going strong in the noughties when lots of other clubs had managed to quieten the trouble.

    Post covid my club Crewe has managed to somehow go from a family friendly club to being featured on a hooligan documentary. Nothing like the 80s, but 100s of little scrouts who attack away fans arriving by train.
    I always found Port Vale to be a bit edgy. Although I did have a pint with some of their casuals on one visit.
    Had my first visit to the Burslem Bernabeu a few weeks ago. Facilities a bit rough and ready, but a better ground than their neighbour's.
    The maximum pitch size is absolutely massive. Back in their hey day under John Rudge away teams didn't know what hit them when they had two winners who hogged the touchline and the opposition had to do the sort of running you see at Wembley.
    Another learning point! I thought all (adult) football pitches were the same size.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,555
    edited October 16
    Off topic: The US Army plans something sensible; the WaPo notices and commends the plan:
    The military is planning to go big on nuclear energy — by going small. The only problem with this excellent idea is that it can’t come fast enough.

    The U.S. Army announced this week that it is launching a program to power domestic military bases with small nuclear reactors – three years from now. No “microreactor” currently operates in the United States, but it’s a worthy gamble that could provide benefits far beyond its military applications.
    Much as I favor this initiative, I have to agree with the editorial that three years is ambitious.
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/10/15/nuclear-power-microreactors-military-army-janus/

    But it's a start.

    (Such reactors could help with logistics, as I am sure almost all of you noticed.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,508

    Leon said:

    The weird thing in America is that in the morning you can meet a charming, generous, hospitable Republican and in the afternoon you can meet a charming, generous hospitable Democrat - and as an outsider what strikes you is how similar they are. And yet they utterly loathe each other

    Do they? Or is the amplifying effect of social media shouting loudly plus 24 h news?
    I don't think politics gets quite as bad as it is there without it being somewhat true, even if not fully to the social media extreme.

    I know plenty of Labour/Tories/LDs/Reform people who get on pretty well, at least when they avoid political talk, adn even the politicians can get on reasonably well, but Democrats and Republican reps? Doesn't seem like it now. It's vitriol and lawfare every day.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,220

    new iPhone fun. Need to log into my microsoft account. On the authenticator app. What does the login on the authenticator app require? Yup - a code from the authenticator app/

    I hate Microsoft

    If you solve this, the universe reverses itself inside-out.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,274
    Carnyx said:

    O/T but in latest news, something else for the PB grumps to get aerated about:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/oct/16/great-british-railways-clock-launches-london-bridge

    Keeping an open mind myself; the Frank Pick underground map did take time to be accepted and more.

    Harry Beck map?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,495
    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,222
    Leon said:

    The weird thing in America is that in the morning you can meet a charming, generous, hospitable Republican and in the afternoon you can meet a charming, generous hospitable Democrat - and as an outsider what strikes you is how similar they are. And yet they utterly loathe each other

    It is weird, and it explains why the country as a whole is going to Hell.

    Some of it must be the way that the country has sorted itself politically and socially. Which can't be healthy. It was probably bad enough when that sorting was geographic, and now it's a million times worse now there are two media bubbles.

    The other is inspired by watching The Traitors on catch-up. It's amazing how little evidence it takes to convince us that someone else is a bad guy...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,274
    Leon said:

    We all know why Jewish fans are banned from Birmingham but not a single PBer will state the simple reason. It is pitiful

    And it is this centrist Dad cowardice that has led the UK - and several other European nations - to such a perilous and mortifying place

    Centrist? You mean RADICAL LEFT LUNATICS!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,449
    Missed this:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cge23p7r9det

    Sumo Grand Tournament held at Royal Albert Hall - only the second time outside Japan.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,956

    Carnyx said:

    O/T but in latest news, something else for the PB grumps to get aerated about:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/oct/16/great-british-railways-clock-launches-london-bridge

    Keeping an open mind myself; the Frank Pick underground map did take time to be accepted and more.

    Harry Beck map?
    Ah yes, thanks - was muddling with the wider design makeover by Pick. Very similar sounding names.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,314
    edited October 16
    Taz said:


    Have the Reform obsessives covered this ?

    A police investigation into allegations against Reform councillors and their election agent of overspending on election expenses has been dropped.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj0ejjdqme6o

    I'm not sure if I qualify for the label :smile: .

    It seems to be a "they overspent their legal limit through cockup" rather than "they overspent their legal limit on purpose", with some parish pump rivalries and loyalty allegations attached, around which the other bloke had been chucked out back in the summer.

    In the spirit of such a label, there are investigations into another 5 or 6, including the one in Kent for threatening to kill his (possibly ex-) wife, who is currently charged and out on bail for next Magistrates Court next May.

    And I'm not sure if stability has improved, given that RefUK lost 1% of their Councillors (8 or 9) just in September.

    But at present the interesting stuff is Councils deciding they will in fact raise Council Tax despite promises (the Times says 8 so far), preparation of budgets, those demanding bailouts from the Government, and the recruiting of more serious Tories by Reform as opposed to waifs, strays and careerists. It's looking interesting for Kemi.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,956

    Cookie said:

    Denizens of thisbiarf might be interested to know I am at an evenin with Jimmy Anderson at tge Lowry. Amongst otger things, he is entertainingly disparaging about tge Hundred.

    From your typing, drinks have been taken…
    The wording raises alarming evocations of technicolor yawns, too: quite accidentally I am sure.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,274

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    Sgt. Hartman: "I don't like the name Lawrence. Only f*ggots and sailors are called Lawrence. From now on you're Gomer Pyle!"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,311
    edited October 16
    AnneJGP said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Utterly disgusting, that Villa decision.

    Ban Jews from supporting their club because people are so racist they might not be safe? What a disgraceful victim-blaming attitude.

    Villa are a crap club with wankers for fans.

    The West Mids Police are a disgrace.
    Not sure how much this is Villa's fault.

    The Police much more to blame.

    If Villa and the Police can't ensure safety it should be relocated to be played in another country that can keep fans safe.


    I never said it was Villa’s fault. I just made an observation about the club and its supporters.
    Macabi Tel Aviv fans are not always the peace-loving soccerballists some on pb imagine.
    Cute victim-blaming there.

    That's not the reason they're being banned, though, is it?

    Galatasaray fans and other clubs fans aren't always peace-loving, but they're not banned.
    This episode is as shameful a moment for modern Britain as I can remember.
    The Chief Constable of West Midlands really should resign. This is appalling.
    I can understand the concern. But the response is wrong. Move the game. Abroad if necessary.
    Feck off. Send the army in, if necessary. The very idea that it is simply not safe for fans to come and watch a football match in this country is nothing short of humiliating.
    I don't think we should be under the illusion that Maccabi fans are angels. Any trouble would almost certainly be partly their doing. But the problem is specific to certain locations.

    I reckon the god-awful Bet365 in Stoke would be a better venue as no one is making the effort to go there to cause trouble.
    Weirdly it is that long ago that Stoke had a really bad reputation for trouble.
    You're talking about football fans looking for trouble! I'm sure Stoke still have their fare-share of trouble makers.
    Stoke "firm" had a crap name, Naughty Forty, but they were still going strong in the noughties when lots of other clubs had managed to quieten the trouble.

    Post covid my club Crewe has managed to somehow go from a family friendly club to being featured on a hooligan documentary. Nothing like the 80s, but 100s of little scrouts who attack away fans arriving by train.
    I always found Port Vale to be a bit edgy. Although I did have a pint with some of their casuals on one visit.
    Had my first visit to the Burslem Bernabeu a few weeks ago. Facilities a bit rough and ready, but a better ground than their neighbour's.
    The maximum pitch size is absolutely massive. Back in their hey day under John Rudge away teams didn't know what hit them when they had two winners who hogged the touchline and the opposition had to do the sort of running you see at Wembley.
    Another learning point! I thought all (adult) football pitches were the same size.
    So I believe in recent years they changed the rules so there is a ideal size, but if your current pitch can't accommodate it you can not meet the standard e.g. my club Crewe pitch is definitely undersized.

    But back in the day there were all sorts of shenanigans over pitch sizes. I seemed to remember Wolves at one point would change the width depending on the team. I presume against teams with fast creative wingers they would bring in the pitch to reduce free space .
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,495
    Nobel peace prize application latest:



    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    ·
    1h
    Trump: “If Hamas continues to kill people in Gaza…we will have no choice but to go in and kill them.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1978884005123481828
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,345
    AnneJGP said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Utterly disgusting, that Villa decision.

    Ban Jews from supporting their club because people are so racist they might not be safe? What a disgraceful victim-blaming attitude.

    Villa are a crap club with wankers for fans.

    The West Mids Police are a disgrace.
    Not sure how much this is Villa's fault.

    The Police much more to blame.

    If Villa and the Police can't ensure safety it should be relocated to be played in another country that can keep fans safe.


    I never said it was Villa’s fault. I just made an observation about the club and its supporters.
    Macabi Tel Aviv fans are not always the peace-loving soccerballists some on pb imagine.
    Cute victim-blaming there.

    That's not the reason they're being banned, though, is it?

    Galatasaray fans and other clubs fans aren't always peace-loving, but they're not banned.
    This episode is as shameful a moment for modern Britain as I can remember.
    The Chief Constable of West Midlands really should resign. This is appalling.
    I can understand the concern. But the response is wrong. Move the game. Abroad if necessary.
    Feck off. Send the army in, if necessary. The very idea that it is simply not safe for fans to come and watch a football match in this country is nothing short of humiliating.
    I don't think we should be under the illusion that Maccabi fans are angels. Any trouble would almost certainly be partly their doing. But the problem is specific to certain locations.

    I reckon the god-awful Bet365 in Stoke would be a better venue as no one is making the effort to go there to cause trouble.
    Weirdly it is that long ago that Stoke had a really bad reputation for trouble.
    You're talking about football fans looking for trouble! I'm sure Stoke still have their fare-share of trouble makers.
    Stoke "firm" had a crap name, Naughty Forty, but they were still going strong in the noughties when lots of other clubs had managed to quieten the trouble.

    Post covid my club Crewe has managed to somehow go from a family friendly club to being featured on a hooligan documentary. Nothing like the 80s, but 100s of little scrouts who attack away fans arriving by train.
    I always found Port Vale to be a bit edgy. Although I did have a pint with some of their casuals on one visit.
    Had my first visit to the Burslem Bernabeu a few weeks ago. Facilities a bit rough and ready, but a better ground than their neighbour's.
    The maximum pitch size is absolutely massive. Back in their hey day under John Rudge away teams didn't know what hit them when they had two winners who hogged the touchline and the opposition had to do the sort of running you see at Wembley.
    Another learning point! I thought all (adult) football pitches were the same size.
    Different competitions have different rules. I think it was Bolton under Allardyce who had to have a bigger pitch in Europe and you could see the regular pitch marks covered in green paint.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,553
    kle4 said:

    Prince Andrew met the top Chinese official at the centre of the Beijing spy case at least three times, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The top chinese official was 17 years old?
    Or legal as Andrew calls it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,756
    AnneJGP said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Utterly disgusting, that Villa decision.

    Ban Jews from supporting their club because people are so racist they might not be safe? What a disgraceful victim-blaming attitude.

    Villa are a crap club with wankers for fans.

    The West Mids Police are a disgrace.
    Not sure how much this is Villa's fault.

    The Police much more to blame.

    If Villa and the Police can't ensure safety it should be relocated to be played in another country that can keep fans safe.


    I never said it was Villa’s fault. I just made an observation about the club and its supporters.
    Macabi Tel Aviv fans are not always the peace-loving soccerballists some on pb imagine.
    Cute victim-blaming there.

    That's not the reason they're being banned, though, is it?

    Galatasaray fans and other clubs fans aren't always peace-loving, but they're not banned.
    This episode is as shameful a moment for modern Britain as I can remember.
    The Chief Constable of West Midlands really should resign. This is appalling.
    I can understand the concern. But the response is wrong. Move the game. Abroad if necessary.
    Feck off. Send the army in, if necessary. The very idea that it is simply not safe for fans to come and watch a football match in this country is nothing short of humiliating.
    I don't think we should be under the illusion that Maccabi fans are angels. Any trouble would almost certainly be partly their doing. But the problem is specific to certain locations.

    I reckon the god-awful Bet365 in Stoke would be a better venue as no one is making the effort to go there to cause trouble.
    Weirdly it is that long ago that Stoke had a really bad reputation for trouble.
    You're talking about football fans looking for trouble! I'm sure Stoke still have their fare-share of trouble makers.
    Stoke "firm" had a crap name, Naughty Forty, but they were still going strong in the noughties when lots of other clubs had managed to quieten the trouble.

    Post covid my club Crewe has managed to somehow go from a family friendly club to being featured on a hooligan documentary. Nothing like the 80s, but 100s of little scrouts who attack away fans arriving by train.
    I always found Port Vale to be a bit edgy. Although I did have a pint with some of their casuals on one visit.
    Had my first visit to the Burslem Bernabeu a few weeks ago. Facilities a bit rough and ready, but a better ground than their neighbour's.
    The maximum pitch size is absolutely massive. Back in their hey day under John Rudge away teams didn't know what hit them when they had two winners who hogged the touchline and the opposition had to do the sort of running you see at Wembley.
    Another learning point! I thought all (adult) football pitches were the same size.
    Lots of sports have exact sizes (swimming pools, athletics tracks, snooker, tennis). Lots have maximum and minimum sizes. Can be part of tactics. Some rugby pitches have very small in goal areas ( the bit where you score a try). Others are huge (Murrayfield springs to mind).

    My other favourite thing is games that are ended by the clock, and games that are in pricinple endless. In football the game is stopped with the ball in play, usually. Hence the nonsense of waiting for a kick off to blow the whistle. In rugby the game only ends when the ball goes dead. In theory it could go on for ever. And some games have drone on well past time over the years.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,311
    Cookie said:

    Denizens of thisbiarf might be interested to know I am at an evenin with Jimmy Anderson at tge Lowry. Amongst otger things, he is entertainingly disparaging about tge Hundred.

    Nothing to do with the fact he hardly got a game?
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,559

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    Sgt. Hartman: "I don't like the name Lawrence. Only f*ggots and sailors are called Lawrence. From now on you're Gomer Pyle!"
    You could suck a golf ball through a garden hose.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,314

    AnneJGP said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Utterly disgusting, that Villa decision.

    Ban Jews from supporting their club because people are so racist they might not be safe? What a disgraceful victim-blaming attitude.

    Villa are a crap club with wankers for fans.

    The West Mids Police are a disgrace.
    Not sure how much this is Villa's fault.

    The Police much more to blame.

    If Villa and the Police can't ensure safety it should be relocated to be played in another country that can keep fans safe.


    I never said it was Villa’s fault. I just made an observation about the club and its supporters.
    Macabi Tel Aviv fans are not always the peace-loving soccerballists some on pb imagine.
    Cute victim-blaming there.

    That's not the reason they're being banned, though, is it?

    Galatasaray fans and other clubs fans aren't always peace-loving, but they're not banned.
    This episode is as shameful a moment for modern Britain as I can remember.
    The Chief Constable of West Midlands really should resign. This is appalling.
    I can understand the concern. But the response is wrong. Move the game. Abroad if necessary.
    Feck off. Send the army in, if necessary. The very idea that it is simply not safe for fans to come and watch a football match in this country is nothing short of humiliating.
    I don't think we should be under the illusion that Maccabi fans are angels. Any trouble would almost certainly be partly their doing. But the problem is specific to certain locations.

    I reckon the god-awful Bet365 in Stoke would be a better venue as no one is making the effort to go there to cause trouble.
    Weirdly it is that long ago that Stoke had a really bad reputation for trouble.
    You're talking about football fans looking for trouble! I'm sure Stoke still have their fare-share of trouble makers.
    Stoke "firm" had a crap name, Naughty Forty, but they were still going strong in the noughties when lots of other clubs had managed to quieten the trouble.

    Post covid my club Crewe has managed to somehow go from a family friendly club to being featured on a hooligan documentary. Nothing like the 80s, but 100s of little scrouts who attack away fans arriving by train.
    I always found Port Vale to be a bit edgy. Although I did have a pint with some of their casuals on one visit.
    Had my first visit to the Burslem Bernabeu a few weeks ago. Facilities a bit rough and ready, but a better ground than their neighbour's.
    The maximum pitch size is absolutely massive. Back in their hey day under John Rudge away teams didn't know what hit them when they had two winners who hogged the touchline and the opposition had to do the sort of running you see at Wembley.
    Another learning point! I thought all (adult) football pitches were the same size.
    So I believe in recent years they changed the rules so there is a ideal size, but if your current pitch can't accommodate it you can not meet the standard e.g. my club Crewe pitch is definitely undersized.

    But back in the day there were all sorts of shenanigans over pitch sizes. I seemed to remember Wolves at one point would change the width depending on the team. I presume against teams with fast creative wingers they would bring in the pitch to reduce free space .
    Just like Somerset Cricket Ground.

    ("How did you get so many sixes, Both?")
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,986

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Utterly disgusting, that Villa decision.

    Ban Jews from supporting their club because people are so racist they might not be safe? What a disgraceful victim-blaming attitude.

    Villa are a crap club with wankers for fans.

    The West Mids Police are a disgrace.
    Not sure how much this is Villa's fault.

    The Police much more to blame.

    If Villa and the Police can't ensure safety it should be relocated to be played in another country that can keep fans safe.


    I never said it was Villa’s fault. I just made an observation about the club and its supporters.
    Macabi Tel Aviv fans are not always the peace-loving soccerballists some on pb imagine.
    Some football supporters have a tendency towards bad behaviour.

    That’s hardly news. Even my beloved Birmingham City has the odd one or two pre-disposed towards violence including one of my former Managers
    This is the lot who were chanting such lovely things over in Amsterdam? Something about there being 'no schools in Gaza' and 'may your village burn' also quite a bit of wishing death to Arabs? One can't understand why the police wouldn't want them in Birmingham.

    Would our PBers who dislike the Gaza protests also defend this bunch of extremists?
    As a supporter of a club with a reputation for violent fans it is only a small minority who engage in such stuff. No it is not right or defendable but why just single them out if this is the issue.

    Why just ban the Israeli teams supporters.

    What about England fans who sing ‘2 world wars’, ‘no surrender to the IRA/Taleban’ or the song about German bombers ?

    Celtic and Rangers fans with their sectarian chants about the North of Ireland.

    Why not ban other clubs with equally awful fans. In Newcastle when they were last in the champions league the opposition fans hardly disnguished themselves as model supporters. No one calls for bans on them.
    Are the chants and actions of the Maccabi fans really equivalent to England fans chanting the classics? I think I would share your view if we hadn't seen what they got up to in Amsterdam. They have form, are universally known to be pretty horrible and Birmingham is not the place for it.
    Plenty of European teams fans are. ‘Universally known’ to be scumbags.

    So if the fans are that bad why were they not banned from away games full stop ?

    If there is a problem it should be dealt with by UEFA and why should all fans be punished for the actions of a minority. Anyway in Amsterdam the home supporters were hardly blameless.

    We’ve had Italian and east European fans with far right leanings not banned.
    I don't know why they weren’t banned for it. Of course the footballing precedent is to ban all fans if enough cause trouble so this situation is not unique to the Israelis. And yes the Amsterdam fracas was not just Maccabi fans but they didn't help themselves, I remember that they were cheering during a minutes silence for flood victims, more of a Millwall approach to international relations.
    England fans boo other nations National Anthems.

    Guess that’s just patriotism
    I detest booing other nations anthems. Want to,show how patriotic you are? Sing your own one loudly.
    At football (soccer football) matches in the US they play the national anthem before the game, like it's an international. (If it's a US team and a Canadian team playing, they do both anthems.)

    Here's the thing: of the 22 players on the pitch, maybe only 3 or 4 are actually American. So, the whole thing feels very weird.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,495

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    All I remember about him is he made a fuss about being allowed to smoke on telly or something?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,495
    @Sunil_Prasannan probably already knows all about this but it was news to me:


    Tim Dunn
    @MrTimDunn

    Today I had the privilege of hosting the launch of one of the best pieces of railway design that I’ve seen in years. We launched the new British Railway Clock at @NetworkRailLBG: and it is beautiful. It is elegant, graceful, simple and clear. It is a symbol of unity and of precision, with impeccable design heritage and subtle modernity.

    https://x.com/MrTimDunn/status/1978899991637754030
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067

    Leon said:

    The weird thing in America is that in the morning you can meet a charming, generous, hospitable Republican and in the afternoon you can meet a charming, generous hospitable Democrat - and as an outsider what strikes you is how similar they are. And yet they utterly loathe each other

    Do they? Or is the amplifying effect of social media shouting loudly plus 24 h news?
    They really do. They will say it spontaneously. Democrats are louder but both sides do it
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,314
    Nigelb said:

    This needs to be front and centre of future UK defence procurement.
    We should not be wasting billions on Ajax and Challenger 3 until we work through this.

    https://x.com/nicholadrummond/status/1978729260274561287
    NATO armies cannot revise their manoeuvre doctrine until they have acquired significant air defence and counter-drone capabilities. When we can blast aerial threats out of the sky at will, we’ll be able to test new combined arms tactics and see whether heavy armour has a future.

    The modern battlefield has changed forever.

    I’ve seen it firsthand over the last three and a half years training Ukrainian soldiers as a volunteer combat advisor/trainer across multiple fronts.

    What used to be decided by armour, artillery, and speed is now dictated by what happens above your head. Drones, loitering munitions, and constant aerial reconnaissance have redefined how we fight, move, and survive.

    No NATO army can realistically revise its manoeuvre doctrine until it achieves real dominance in air defence and counter-drone warfare. I’ve watched entire Ukrainian units learn to adapt under constant drone threat—changing routes, dispersing formations, even halting movement entirely just to avoid being spotted. In this environment, no tank, no infantry column, and no convoy can operate freely without protection from the air.

    The lesson is clear: before manoeuvre warfare can evolve, we must first reclaim freedom of movement under the sky. NATO must invest heavily in short-, medium-, and long-range air defence systems and make counter-drone training part of every combat unit’s core curriculum.

    Once we can neutralize aerial threats at will, only then can we truly test the future of combined arms tactics and determine whether heavy armour still has a meaningful role.

    I’ve watched Ukrainian soldiers learn, adapt, and fight through conditions that most Western armies have never faced. Their experience should guide NATO’s future doctrine, not the other way around.
    ..

    That's an excellent piece.

    One interesting number I did see today is that the UK has supplied 85k drones to Ukraine this year:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-nato-nations-ramp-up-response-to-putins-aggression-in-ukraine-and-incursions-into-europe
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,274

    @Sunil_Prasannan probably already knows all about this but it was news to me:


    Tim Dunn
    @MrTimDunn

    Today I had the privilege of hosting the launch of one of the best pieces of railway design that I’ve seen in years. We launched the new British Railway Clock at @NetworkRailLBG: and it is beautiful. It is elegant, graceful, simple and clear. It is a symbol of unity and of precision, with impeccable design heritage and subtle modernity.

    https://x.com/MrTimDunn/status/1978899991637754030

    It's crap, son :lol:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,274
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Utterly disgusting, that Villa decision.

    Ban Jews from supporting their club because people are so racist they might not be safe? What a disgraceful victim-blaming attitude.

    Villa are a crap club with wankers for fans.

    The West Mids Police are a disgrace.
    Not sure how much this is Villa's fault.

    The Police much more to blame.

    If Villa and the Police can't ensure safety it should be relocated to be played in another country that can keep fans safe.


    I never said it was Villa’s fault. I just made an observation about the club and its supporters.
    Macabi Tel Aviv fans are not always the peace-loving soccerballists some on pb imagine.
    Some football supporters have a tendency towards bad behaviour.

    That’s hardly news. Even my beloved Birmingham City has the odd one or two pre-disposed towards violence including one of my former Managers
    This is the lot who were chanting such lovely things over in Amsterdam? Something about there being 'no schools in Gaza' and 'may your village burn' also quite a bit of wishing death to Arabs? One can't understand why the police wouldn't want them in Birmingham.

    Would our PBers who dislike the Gaza protests also defend this bunch of extremists?
    As a supporter of a club with a reputation for violent fans it is only a small minority who engage in such stuff. No it is not right or defendable but why just single them out if this is the issue.

    Why just ban the Israeli teams supporters.

    What about England fans who sing ‘2 world wars’, ‘no surrender to the IRA/Taleban’ or the song about German bombers ?

    Celtic and Rangers fans with their sectarian chants about the North of Ireland.

    Why not ban other clubs with equally awful fans. In Newcastle when they were last in the champions league the opposition fans hardly disnguished themselves as model supporters. No one calls for bans on them.
    Are the chants and actions of the Maccabi fans really equivalent to England fans chanting the classics? I think I would share your view if we hadn't seen what they got up to in Amsterdam. They have form, are universally known to be pretty horrible and Birmingham is not the place for it.
    Plenty of European teams fans are. ‘Universally known’ to be scumbags.

    So if the fans are that bad why were they not banned from away games full stop ?

    If there is a problem it should be dealt with by UEFA and why should all fans be punished for the actions of a minority. Anyway in Amsterdam the home supporters were hardly blameless.

    We’ve had Italian and east European fans with far right leanings not banned.
    I don't know why they weren’t banned for it. Of course the footballing precedent is to ban all fans if enough cause trouble so this situation is not unique to the Israelis. And yes the Amsterdam fracas was not just Maccabi fans but they didn't help themselves, I remember that they were cheering during a minutes silence for flood victims, more of a Millwall approach to international relations.
    England fans boo other nations National Anthems.

    Guess that’s just patriotism
    I detest booing other nations anthems. Want to,show how patriotic you are? Sing your own one loudly.
    At football (soccer football) matches in the US they play the national anthem before the game, like it's an international. (If it's a US team and a Canadian team playing, they do both anthems.)

    Here's the thing: of the 22 players on the pitch, maybe only 3 or 4 are actually American. So, the whole thing feels very weird.
    Football is football. American "football" should be called something else entirely, as they play with their hands!

    Dumbass colonists!
  • new iPhone fun. Need to log into my microsoft account. On the authenticator app. What does the login on the authenticator app require? Yup - a code from the authenticator app/

    I hate Microsoft

    If you solve this, the universe reverses itself inside-out.
    Had to get Microsoft tech support on the phone. Involved creating a new ghost account on my corporate email (good job I am the admin), set that up on the authenticator, then take control of my account with the ghost account to force a clean login (took multiple attempts) to then eventually login to the authenticator.

    Copying from one Apple device to another is like transferring from one Tesla to another - seamless. Microfuckingsoft? Gaaaah.

    This is why I hate Windows. Endless sodding menus and security crap you don't understand.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,508
    ohnotnow said:

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    All I remember about him is he made a fuss about being allowed to smoke on telly or something?
    I liked him as Palmerston in that show Victoria.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,487
    Banning away fans isn't a new thing

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/oct/16/maccabi-tel-aviv-fans-banned-from-game-at-aston-villa-in-europa-league

    "This season Ajax were prevented last month from taking fans to a Champions League match in Marseille after the French interior ministry banned “anyone claiming to be an Ajax Amsterdam supporter” from travelling between the French border and the southern city.

    Ajax said they had been informed the decision had been taken “on grounds of public safety and security”. That same week, the prefecture of Naples prevented the selling of tickets to Eintracht Frankfurt fans hoping to travel to their Champions League match against Napoli.
    "
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,314
    edited October 16
    ohnotnow said:

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    All I remember about him is he made a fuss about being allowed to smoke on telly or something?
    He got himself sacked from GB News for being too rude about a woman along with Dan Wootton, and has not stopped faceplanting since. He has a problem about black people, a problem about women, a problem with Sikhs, and a problem about opening his mouth before checking what actually happened. He's also done a Pride Flag as swastika, and himself in blackface.

    I'm sure there is plenty more to come.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,222
    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    All I remember about him is he made a fuss about being allowed to smoke on telly or something?
    He got himself sacked from GB News for being too rude about a woman along with Dan Wootton, and has not stopped faceplanting since. He has a problem about black people, a problem about women, a problem with Sikhs, and a problem about opening his mouth before checking what actually happened.

    I'm sure there is plenty more to come.
    If you have a problem with one group, it may be them.

    If you have a problem with everyone, it's you.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,274
    edited October 16
    Hijab row in Kerala State, southern India (roughly 55% Hindu, 25% Muslim, 20% Christian):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld0hFnL1mgU

    A hijab controversy has erupted at St. Rita's Public School in Kochi, Kerala, after a Class 8 student was not allowed to attend classes wearing a hijab, citing school uniform rules. The student's family, with support from some locals, protested, prompting police protection and a temporary two-day school closure. The incident has raised questions about the politicization of schools, especially as other Muslim students at the school have adhered to the uniform rules without issue.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,207
    C.I.A. Deputy Director Has Replaced Agency’s Top Legal Official With Himself

    It is not clear what is behind the move by Michael Ellis, a Trump loyalist...

    https://x.com/charlie_savage/status/1975305204057997484
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,562

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    This govt is crap pt 94

    The firm at the heart of Britain's critical minerals strategy has ditched plans for a rare earths refinery in the UK, and will build it in the US instead.

    It's a serious blow to the Chancellor and her plans for "securonomics" ahead of next month's Budget

    https://x.com/edconwaysky/status/1978745822704447573?s=61

    Is this Net Zero energy costs again?
    This is what Ed Conway says.

    Lack of support. That ‘may’ include energy but, like Biopharma, it looks like the US wants to support these key industries more than other nations.

    ‘But now I've learnt Pensana has decided to ditch its plans for a UK rare earths refinery and will instead refine its metals in the US instead.

    Why? Because the US is providing far more support and security to critical minerals firms. Britain & Europe are losing the race’
    This one isn't a race.
    It's about strategic independence.

    There's no real need to beat the US to it (in itself it's not a particularly large market); but there is an absolute need to have independent European production capacity.
    Agreed, though there is a difference between battery/panel materials and hydrocarbons. It's a variant on the capital/revenue spend confusion I occasionally rant about.

    At the moment, we are too China-dependent for panel and battery materials, definitely. But they are mostly one-off things; once we have them, they work for years and are recyclable for decades.

    Before that, we were too dependent on all sorts of dodgy countries for oil and methane. And because we burned those, we needed an ongoing supply. With the bad geopolitical effects around us.

    Apart from Norway, has any hydrocarbon nation really been happy as a result? When I was a sort-of Earth Scientist, we used on this... see also the lottery winners who ruin their lives as a result.
    Waves from Dubai, where life is pretty damn good!
  • CatMan said:

    Banning away fans isn't a new thing

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/oct/16/maccabi-tel-aviv-fans-banned-from-game-at-aston-villa-in-europa-league

    "This season Ajax were prevented last month from taking fans to a Champions League match in Marseille after the French interior ministry banned “anyone claiming to be an Ajax Amsterdam supporter” from travelling between the French border and the southern city.

    Ajax said they had been informed the decision had been taken “on grounds of public safety and security”. That same week, the prefecture of Naples prevented the selling of tickets to Eintracht Frankfurt fans hoping to travel to their Champions League match against Napoli.
    "

    Banning them because their fans will kick off and cause a public nuisance is one thing, banning them because your town is such a hotbed of seething anti jewish hatred that you can’t maintain public order is something else entirely.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067
    Skyr has Spoke and said the football thing is Bad

    Not sure he will do anything

    At least we now all know that multiculturalism has failed. OFFICIAL
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    All I remember about him is he made a fuss about being allowed to smoke on telly or something?
    He got himself sacked from GB News for being too rude about a woman along with Dan Wootton, and has not stopped faceplanting since. He has a problem about black people, a problem about women, a problem with Sikhs, and a problem about opening his mouth before checking what actually happened.

    I'm sure there is plenty more to come.
    If you have a problem with one group, it may be them.

    If you have a problem with everyone, it's you.
    A harsh critique of Islam
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,441
    Evening all :)

    Anyone following the Grand Sumo tournament in London? About time we had some proper sport.

    I've been trying to find a market on the outcome without success.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,345
    CatMan said:

    Banning away fans isn't a new thing

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/oct/16/maccabi-tel-aviv-fans-banned-from-game-at-aston-villa-in-europa-league

    "This season Ajax were prevented last month from taking fans to a Champions League match in Marseille after the French interior ministry banned “anyone claiming to be an Ajax Amsterdam supporter” from travelling between the French border and the southern city.

    Ajax said they had been informed the decision had been taken “on grounds of public safety and security”. That same week, the prefecture of Naples prevented the selling of tickets to Eintracht Frankfurt fans hoping to travel to their Champions League match against Napoli.
    "

    It is in this country. It’s absolutely f***ing rich that Marseille and Naples would ban away fans on football trouble grounds.

    I travel around Europe with Arsenal and away fans are treated like dirt except in England and Germany.

    So bringing up the nonsense that happens in places like Naples isn’t particularly relevant.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,562
    Leon said:

    The weird thing in America is that in the morning you can meet a charming, generous, hospitable Republican and in the afternoon you can meet a charming, generous hospitable Democrat - and as an outsider what strikes you is how similar they are. And yet they utterly loathe each other

    Yes, when they actually talk to each other in person, they agree on way more than they disagree.

    #WeAreCharlieKirk
  • On topic, I would bet on Ref UK here. With only a week to go, I can't help feeling that anyone who was going to abandon Lab for Plaid has probably already done so by now.

    Bearing in mind that Lab have won every single election in the Caerphilly Westminster and Senedd seats ever, there has to be a rump of Lab till they die voters who will never ever switch.

    My guess is that Lab will ultimately do slightly better and Plaid slightly worse than this poll. Also Plaid aren't just another generic left wing party but Welsh nationalists, which ought to put a few people off (perhaps there might be a small number of anti-Plaid people who tactically vote for Ref)
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,222
    edited October 16
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    All I remember about him is he made a fuss about being allowed to smoke on telly or something?
    He got himself sacked from GB News for being too rude about a woman along with Dan Wootton, and has not stopped faceplanting since. He has a problem about black people, a problem about women, a problem with Sikhs, and a problem about opening his mouth before checking what actually happened.

    I'm sure there is plenty more to come.
    If you have a problem with one group, it may be them.

    If you have a problem with everyone, it's you.
    A harsh critique of Islam
    Hardly.

    You've visited Seville, I lived there. It was an awful lot more civilised and (let's say it) inclusive as part of al-Andalus than in reconquista Spain.

    Bottom line- if politics co-opts religion, especially to create an enemy, it's generally a bad sign.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,097
    Leon said:

    We all know why Jewish fans are banned from Birmingham but not a single PBer will state the simple reason. It is pitiful

    And it is this centrist Dad cowardice that has led the UK - and several other European nations - to such a perilous and mortifying place

    Fuck em. Israeli teams shouldn't be playing in Europe any more than Russian ones should.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,274
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    All I remember about him is he made a fuss about being allowed to smoke on telly or something?
    He got himself sacked from GB News for being too rude about a woman along with Dan Wootton, and has not stopped faceplanting since. He has a problem about black people, a problem about women, a problem with Sikhs, and a problem about opening his mouth before checking what actually happened.

    I'm sure there is plenty more to come.
    If you have a problem with one group, it may be them.

    If you have a problem with everyone, it's you.
    A harsh critique of Islam
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCHHfBeu0QE
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,311
    Leon said:

    Skyr has Spoke and said the football thing is Bad

    Not sure he will do anything

    At least we now all know that multiculturalism has failed. OFFICIAL

    Amazing what crosses his desk and what doesn't.....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,311
    BBC News - Former Trump adviser John Bolton criminally indicted
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,067

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    All I remember about him is he made a fuss about being allowed to smoke on telly or something?
    He got himself sacked from GB News for being too rude about a woman along with Dan Wootton, and has not stopped faceplanting since. He has a problem about black people, a problem about women, a problem with Sikhs, and a problem about opening his mouth before checking what actually happened.

    I'm sure there is plenty more to come.
    If you have a problem with one group, it may be them.

    If you have a problem with everyone, it's you.
    A harsh critique of Islam
    Hardly.

    You've visited Seville, I lived there. It was an awful lot more civilised and (let's say it) inclusive as part of al-Andalus than in reconquista Spain.

    Bottom line- if politics co-opts religion, especially to create an enemy, it's generally a bad sign.
    What the fuck are you on about
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,223
    Leon said:

    The weird thing in America is that in the morning you can meet a charming, generous, hospitable Republican and in the afternoon you can meet a charming, generous hospitable Democrat - and as an outsider what strikes you is how similar they are. And yet they utterly loathe each other

    It's not what they say to your face, is what they write about on the internet afterwards that matters... ☹️
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,577

    new iPhone fun. Need to log into my microsoft account. On the authenticator app. What does the login on the authenticator app require? Yup - a code from the authenticator app/

    I hate Microsoft

    If you solve this, the universe reverses itself inside-out.
    I faced this problem recently and I did find a workaround, but I forget what it was.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,345
    I think this is sailing very close to the wind:

    https://x.com/iqbalmohamedMP/status/1978894124968255833

    Iqbal Mohamed MP
    @iqbalmohamedMP
    Thank you all who put the safety of Aston Villa fans, Birmingham residents snd the British public above the zionist and political pressure to let Israeli hooligans and terrorists run riot in our country.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,311
    edited October 16
    The police claim they have specific intelligence of a danger for the Israeli fans. If I was a leading politician I think i would ask to know what that is before making a stance one way or another. But we know uninterested some politicians are about intelligence claims.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,577

    AnneJGP said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Utterly disgusting, that Villa decision.

    Ban Jews from supporting their club because people are so racist they might not be safe? What a disgraceful victim-blaming attitude.

    Villa are a crap club with wankers for fans.

    The West Mids Police are a disgrace.
    Not sure how much this is Villa's fault.

    The Police much more to blame.

    If Villa and the Police can't ensure safety it should be relocated to be played in another country that can keep fans safe.


    I never said it was Villa’s fault. I just made an observation about the club and its supporters.
    Macabi Tel Aviv fans are not always the peace-loving soccerballists some on pb imagine.
    Cute victim-blaming there.

    That's not the reason they're being banned, though, is it?

    Galatasaray fans and other clubs fans aren't always peace-loving, but they're not banned.
    This episode is as shameful a moment for modern Britain as I can remember.
    The Chief Constable of West Midlands really should resign. This is appalling.
    I can understand the concern. But the response is wrong. Move the game. Abroad if necessary.
    Feck off. Send the army in, if necessary. The very idea that it is simply not safe for fans to come and watch a football match in this country is nothing short of humiliating.
    I don't think we should be under the illusion that Maccabi fans are angels. Any trouble would almost certainly be partly their doing. But the problem is specific to certain locations.

    I reckon the god-awful Bet365 in Stoke would be a better venue as no one is making the effort to go there to cause trouble.
    Weirdly it is that long ago that Stoke had a really bad reputation for trouble.
    You're talking about football fans looking for trouble! I'm sure Stoke still have their fare-share of trouble makers.
    Stoke "firm" had a crap name, Naughty Forty, but they were still going strong in the noughties when lots of other clubs had managed to quieten the trouble.

    Post covid my club Crewe has managed to somehow go from a family friendly club to being featured on a hooligan documentary. Nothing like the 80s, but 100s of little scrouts who attack away fans arriving by train.
    I always found Port Vale to be a bit edgy. Although I did have a pint with some of their casuals on one visit.
    Had my first visit to the Burslem Bernabeu a few weeks ago. Facilities a bit rough and ready, but a better ground than their neighbour's.
    The maximum pitch size is absolutely massive. Back in their hey day under John Rudge away teams didn't know what hit them when they had two winners who hogged the touchline and the opposition had to do the sort of running you see at Wembley.
    Another learning point! I thought all (adult) football pitches were the same size.
    Lots of sports have exact sizes (swimming pools, athletics tracks, snooker, tennis). Lots have maximum and minimum sizes. Can be part of tactics. Some rugby pitches have very small in goal areas ( the bit where you score a try). Others are huge (Murrayfield springs to mind).

    My other favourite thing is games that are ended by the clock, and games that are in pricinple endless. In football the game is stopped with the ball in play, usually. Hence the nonsense of waiting for a kick off to blow the whistle. In rugby the game only ends when the ball goes dead. In theory it could go on for ever. And some games have drone on well past time over the years.
    At the last World Cup Ireland kept the ball live for a very long time past time running out in an attempt to win the game at the death. It was a mesmerising sequence of play.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,610

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    This govt is crap pt 94

    The firm at the heart of Britain's critical minerals strategy has ditched plans for a rare earths refinery in the UK, and will build it in the US instead.

    It's a serious blow to the Chancellor and her plans for "securonomics" ahead of next month's Budget

    https://x.com/edconwaysky/status/1978745822704447573?s=61

    Is this Net Zero energy costs again?
    This is what Ed Conway says.

    Lack of support. That ‘may’ include energy but, like Biopharma, it looks like the US wants to support these key industries more than other nations.

    ‘But now I've learnt Pensana has decided to ditch its plans for a UK rare earths refinery and will instead refine its metals in the US instead.

    Why? Because the US is providing far more support and security to critical minerals firms. Britain & Europe are losing the race’
    This one isn't a race.
    It's about strategic independence.

    There's no real need to beat the US to it (in itself it's not a particularly large market); but there is an absolute need to have independent European production capacity.
    Agreed, though there is a difference between battery/panel materials and hydrocarbons. It's a variant on the capital/revenue spend confusion I occasionally rant about.

    At the moment, we are too China-dependent for panel and battery materials, definitely. But they are mostly one-off things; once we have them, they work for years and are recyclable for decades.

    Before that, we were too dependent on all sorts of dodgy countries for oil and methane. And because we burned those, we needed an ongoing supply. With the bad geopolitical effects around us.

    Apart from Norway, has any hydrocarbon nation really been happy as a result? When I was a sort-of Earth Scientist, we used on this... see also the lottery winners who ruin their lives as a result.
    In the oil industry, some used to call oil The Devil’s Piss.

    Fucks up every country - resource curse, corruption, dictators love it…
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,345

    The police claim they have specific intelligence of a danger for the Israeli fans. If I was a leading politician I think i would ask to know what that is before making a stance one way or another. But we know uninterested some politicians are about intelligence claims.

    Surely the next move is for Maccabi to question the ability of the police to keep their players and staff safe.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,800
    Caerphilly Senedd by election looks like the Senedd election overall next year.

    Reform and Plaid neck and neck, though tactical votes from Labour may see Plaid home next Thursday and Labour may prop up Plaid in the Senedd next year too
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,508
    tlg86 said:

    I think this is sailing very close to the wind:

    https://x.com/iqbalmohamedMP/status/1978894124968255833

    Iqbal Mohamed MP
    @iqbalmohamedMP
    Thank you all who put the safety of Aston Villa fans, Birmingham residents snd the British public above the zionist and political pressure to let Israeli hooligans and terrorists run riot in our country.

    I'm sure it is very popular with his constituents.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,207
    Today is the tenth anniversary of this tweet.

    'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
    https://x.com/Cavalorn/status/654934442549620736
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,141

    Leon said:

    We all know why Jewish fans are banned from Birmingham but not a single PBer will state the simple reason. It is pitiful

    And it is this centrist Dad cowardice that has led the UK - and several other European nations - to such a perilous and mortifying place

    Fuck em. Israeli teams shouldn't be playing in Europe any more than Russian ones should.
    I believe their singers compete in the Eurovision Song Contest.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,610
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Xi is firing more generals than Trump did - six in ten of the senior leadership..

    Who has Xi purged from the CCP Central Committee?

    Attendance at next week's Fourth Plenum will reveal the extent of his recent "purge surge"

    If all rumors are true, only 168/205 members (82%) and 159/171 alternates (93%) will be there

    And only 17/44 of PLA members (39%)!

    https://x.com/neilthomas123/status/1978499540836552864

    I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that he hasn't cleared out yes-men to replace them with people who will challenge him, thus improving the quality of decision-making.
    The worrying thing about this is the highly disproportionate number of military leaders who appear to have been purged.

    If it's about the ageing Xi being in a hurry to cement his legacy, then it might be more than a bit worrying.

    Anyone know if the hard liners are the ones purged, or those still in place ?
    Markets have no clue how to price this sort of geopol risk, so they tend to just ignore it until it happens and then correct sharply. But the risk of a major conflagration between the US and China is far higher than many are prepared to admit.
    The risk of a violent conflagration is extremely low, nuclear weapons ensure that.

    The risk of an economic one? Very high.

    Given how much debt the USA is in, and its persistent deficit, they are very vulnerable to that too.
    Sorry to say but that’s a very complacent view.
    Yes; Taiwan doesn't have nuclear weapons.
    So they like you to think.
    Given the technological sophistication of that country that would be.... surprising. Even if they currently don't they could have them within months and no doubt will if the US umbrella is withdrawn.
    They have been very careful to be NPT compliant.

    Since the 80s, when they, it is said, got with days of assembling a test device.

    What happened to the nuclear material involved is a question that hasn’t been openly answered.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,237
    edited October 16

    CatMan said:

    Banning away fans isn't a new thing

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/oct/16/maccabi-tel-aviv-fans-banned-from-game-at-aston-villa-in-europa-league

    "This season Ajax were prevented last month from taking fans to a Champions League match in Marseille after the French interior ministry banned “anyone claiming to be an Ajax Amsterdam supporter” from travelling between the French border and the southern city.

    Ajax said they had been informed the decision had been taken “on grounds of public safety and security”. That same week, the prefecture of Naples prevented the selling of tickets to Eintracht Frankfurt fans hoping to travel to their Champions League match against Napoli.
    "

    Banning them because their fans will kick off and cause a public nuisance is one thing, banning them because your town is such a hotbed of seething anti jewish hatred that you can’t maintain public order is something else entirely.
    The problem for the police is a bunch of Maccabi fans will (likely) do what they can to stir up that kind of anti-Semitism with their own offensive behaviour - that's their record in other European cities.

    It's an exceptionally tricky circumstance and I think the only option is closed doors at a training venue or something.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,222
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    All I remember about him is he made a fuss about being allowed to smoke on telly or something?
    He got himself sacked from GB News for being too rude about a woman along with Dan Wootton, and has not stopped faceplanting since. He has a problem about black people, a problem about women, a problem with Sikhs, and a problem about opening his mouth before checking what actually happened.

    I'm sure there is plenty more to come.
    If you have a problem with one group, it may be them.

    If you have a problem with everyone, it's you.
    A harsh critique of Islam
    Hardly.

    You've visited Seville, I lived there. It was an awful lot more civilised and (let's say it) inclusive as part of al-Andalus than in reconquista Spain.

    Bottom line- if politics co-opts religion, especially to create an enemy, it's generally a bad sign.
    What the fuck are you on about
    Sorry, I forgot to dumb it down for the Remove.

    Islam itself doesn't need a harsh critique.

    Islamist politics, of which there's way too much in the world, definitely does.

    Catholicist politics, as seen as Spain expanded and retook Andalusia, or in the Ireland of Magdalene Laundries, definitely does.

    Protestantist politics, as seen in reformation Europe, pilgrim America and MAGAland, definitely does.

    Notice the common factor? Of course you do, because you're bright. But in case you don't- faith is a great force for changing ourselves and creating kingdoms not of this world. It's a terrible one for forcing others to change and creating worldly kingdoms.

    The actual colour of the faith matters a lot less than what you choose to do with it.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 233
    Voting over in today's council by elections

    Unusually nowadays for a Scottish council, Ayr North (S Ayrshire) are counting tonight

    The independent candidate Wullie Hogg is putting in a very strong challenge to the established parties, I would not be surprised if he won
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,274
    AnneJGP said:

    Leon said:

    We all know why Jewish fans are banned from Birmingham but not a single PBer will state the simple reason. It is pitiful

    And it is this centrist Dad cowardice that has led the UK - and several other European nations - to such a perilous and mortifying place

    Fuck em. Israeli teams shouldn't be playing in Europe any more than Russian ones should.
    I believe their singers compete in the Eurovision Song Contest.
    And they've won it four times!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,800
    edited October 16
    The most astonishing result I think of that Caerphilly poll is the Conservatives doing better with 18-34s and 34-55s than over 55s. Kemi can finally say the party is no longer the party of pensioners, even if it did require collapsing to just 4% of the vote to say it!

    It seems the Conservative pensioner and over 50 vote there has collapsed to Reform. Whereas Reform as would normally be expected of a rightwing party do better the older the voter and Plaid as would be expected of a leftwing party do better the younger the voter as do the Greens.

    Labour having lost younger voters to the Greens and Plaid in the seat also surprisingly do slightly better with middle aged and pensioner voters, as do the LDs
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,800
    'John Bolton, who served as Donald Trump's national security adviser before becoming a vocal critic of the president, has been criminally indicted on federal charges, and is facing decades in prison.

    The Department of Justice presented a case to a grand jury in Maryland on Thursday, and they agreed there was enough evidence to indict Bolton.

    It comes after FBI agents searched Bolton's home and office in August as part of an investigation into the handling of classified information.

    The indictment makes Bolton, 76, the third of the US president's political opponents to face charges in recent week, after former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James.

    According to a 26-page indictment filed at a court in Greenbelt, Maryland, on Thursday, Bolton is charged with eight counts of transmission of national defence information (NDI) and 10 counts of unlawful retention of NDI.

    Prosecutors accuse him of illegally transmitting top secret information'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,620
    Interesting thread on why FON polls score Reform and Greens higher than other polls. Maybe they are onto something:

    Given FindOutNow polls keep making news it's worth saying a bit more about their methodology.

    Unlike other online pollsters it doesn't use a panel of people who've signed up to do polls. Instead they ask a small number of Qs to people playing the Pick my Postcode lottery. (Thread)

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3m3crvd36z22b
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,816
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Anyone following the Grand Sumo tournament in London? About time we had some proper sport.

    I've been trying to find a market on the outcome without success.

    You might find it is more of a spectacle than an actual tournament, the wrestlers are a heavily incentivised not to get injured and inclined not to beat the more senior ones.
  • dunhamdunham Posts: 34

    On topic, I would bet on Ref UK here. With only a week to go, I can't help feeling that anyone who was going to abandon Lab for Plaid has probably already done so by now.

    Bearing in mind that Lab have won every single election in the Caerphilly Westminster and Senedd seats ever, there has to be a rump of Lab till they die voters who will never ever switch.

    My guess is that Lab will ultimately do slightly better and Plaid slightly worse than this poll. Also Plaid aren't just another generic left wing party but Welsh nationalists, which ought to put a few people off (perhaps there might be a small number of anti-Plaid people who tactically vote for Ref)

    Sadly, I agree. There isn't enough 3rd party anyone-but-Reform vote left for PC to squeeze, and monoglot English-speakers in South Wales fear PC's language agenda.

    Off topic, SKS has made yet another unwise and unpopular judgement call (albeit a relatively trivial one). He would be better off saying nowt.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,224

    BBC News - Former Trump adviser John Bolton criminally indicted
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo

    USA continues its descent into the next level of Mafiadom.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,345

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Reform? Advance?


    Laurence Fox
    @LozzaFox
    ·
    4h
    🚨ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    I will be making a statement on here at 10 am UK time tomorrow Friday 17th October.

    All I remember about him is he made a fuss about being allowed to smoke on telly or something?
    He got himself sacked from GB News for being too rude about a woman along with Dan Wootton, and has not stopped faceplanting since. He has a problem about black people, a problem about women, a problem with Sikhs, and a problem about opening his mouth before checking what actually happened.

    I'm sure there is plenty more to come.
    If you have a problem with one group, it may be them.

    If you have a problem with everyone, it's you.
    A harsh critique of Islam
    Hardly.

    You've visited Seville, I lived there. It was an awful lot more civilised and (let's say it) inclusive as part of al-Andalus than in reconquista Spain.

    Bottom line- if politics co-opts religion, especially to create an enemy, it's generally a bad sign.
    What the fuck are you on about
    Sorry, I forgot to dumb it down for the Remove.

    Islam itself doesn't need a harsh critique.

    Islamist politics, of which there's way too much in the world, definitely does.

    Catholicist politics, as seen as Spain expanded and retook Andalusia, or in the Ireland of Magdalene Laundries, definitely does.

    Protestantist politics, as seen in reformation Europe, pilgrim America and MAGAland, definitely does.

    Notice the common factor? Of course you do, because you're bright. But in case you don't- faith is a great force for changing ourselves and creating kingdoms not of this world. It's a terrible one for forcing others to change and creating worldly kingdoms.

    The actual colour of the faith matters a lot less than what you choose to do with it.
    Not sure I completely agree with this as different religions have different outlooks on life. However, what I would say is, it’s not up to the non-believers to protect the reputation of a religion.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,800

    BBC News - Former Trump adviser John Bolton criminally indicted
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo

    USA continues its descent into the next level of Mafiadom.
    Somewhat conflicted outcome for the anti war hard left, do they loathe Bolton even more than Trump, in which case they wouldn't be too sad if he was jailed despite the perhaps less than natural justice outcome likely
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 134
    Why is Starmer so obsessed with judaism ? Its weird and feels like he is letting his personal life interfere with his job as pm

    Wrong pm at the wrong time imo.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,495
    HYUFD said:

    'John Bolton, who served as Donald Trump's national security adviser before becoming a vocal critic of the president, has been criminally indicted on federal charges, and is facing decades in prison.

    The Department of Justice presented a case to a grand jury in Maryland on Thursday, and they agreed there was enough evidence to indict Bolton.

    It comes after FBI agents searched Bolton's home and office in August as part of an investigation into the handling of classified information.

    The indictment makes Bolton, 76, the third of the US president's political opponents to face charges in recent week, after former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James.

    According to a 26-page indictment filed at a court in Greenbelt, Maryland, on Thursday, Bolton is charged with eight counts of transmission of national defence information (NDI) and 10 counts of unlawful retention of NDI.

    Prosecutors accuse him of illegally transmitting top secret information'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo

    I wonder what the more thinking members of Trump's current circle of aides, advisors and serving executive officers think about this in the wee hours of the night?

    One day they will fall out of favour and they too will be facing a grand jury.

    This is what happens.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,311

    BBC News - Former Trump adviser John Bolton criminally indicted
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo

    USA continues its descent into the next level of Mafiadom.
    You want to be careful saying such things, you wouldn't want to wake up to a horses head at the end of the bed....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,298

    Cookie said:

    Denizens of thisbiarf might be interested to know I am at an evenin with Jimmy Anderson at tge Lowry. Amongst otger things, he is entertainingly disparaging about tge Hundred.

    From your typing, drinks have been taken…
    A couple! But the quality of the typing owes more to me wearing my distance glasses!
    His biggest issue with the Hundred was that one of his favourite things about cricket is playing it with teammates you have formed a bond with - and for the Hundred, the team first got together two days before the season started.
  • Foxy said:

    Interesting thread on why FON polls score Reform and Greens higher than other polls. Maybe they are onto something:

    Given FindOutNow polls keep making news it's worth saying a bit more about their methodology.

    Unlike other online pollsters it doesn't use a panel of people who've signed up to do polls. Instead they ask a small number of Qs to people playing the Pick my Postcode lottery. (Thread)

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3m3crvd36z22b

    The bit where I really don't envy the pollsters is turnout.

    There is a large group of voters who "always" vote in major elections. Then there is a second pool who "sometimes" vote and a 3rd pool who "never" vote.

    The challenge is trying to work out when the "sometimes" pool is actually going to show up.

    My interpretation is that YouGov are down weighting the sometimes pool, while Find Out Now aren't
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,311
    edited October 16
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Denizens of thisbiarf might be interested to know I am at an evenin with Jimmy Anderson at tge Lowry. Amongst otger things, he is entertainingly disparaging about tge Hundred.

    From your typing, drinks have been taken…
    A couple! But the quality of the typing owes more to me wearing my distance glasses!
    His biggest issue with the Hundred was that one of his favourite things about cricket is playing it with teammates you have formed a bond with - and for the Hundred, the team first got together two days before the season started.
    Because it doesn't pay that well, also it quite common for guns for hire to leave half way through the competition for CPL (and previous years MLC).

    One advantage of the Indians taking over they will rejig the calendar to ensure the players are less likely to do this.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,398
    edited October 16
    Radio 4 news interviewing a Chinese representative.

    "Why would we spy on you when you have nothing we want and aren't a competitor"?

    Was simultaneously insulting and a non-denial denial, and reminiscent of Trump in asserting that black is white.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,207
    edited October 16
    HYUFD said:

    BBC News - Former Trump adviser John Bolton criminally indicted
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo

    USA continues its descent into the next level of Mafiadom.
    Somewhat conflicted outcome for the anti war hard left, do they loathe Bolton even more than Trump, in which case they wouldn't be too sad if he was jailed despite the perhaps less than natural justice outcome likely
    That's frankly irrelevant, and a pretty feeble comment on what is pretty clearly a political prosecution.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,222

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    The weird thing in America is that in the morning you can meet a charming, generous, hospitable Republican and in the afternoon you can meet a charming, generous hospitable Democrat - and as an outsider what strikes you is how similar they are. And yet they utterly loathe each other

    Yes, when they actually talk to each other in person, they agree on way more than they disagree.

    #WeAreCharlieKirk
    I am not Charlie Kirk.

    I'm in DC right now and have seen a number of Trump administration officials or proxies speaking at various conferences and meetings. Two things strike me: they are often quite ill informed and they are always extremely sure that they are right. In short, they are zealots.
    Meanwhile there are troops standing around on street corners like this is some kind of third world dictatorship. This is a country heading in a very scary direction. There is simply no equivalence between Democrats and MAGA Republicans.
    There are two sorts of conversation- those that aim to share, and those that aim to convince. They are different things. Neither is intrinsically dishonourable, but dressing a persuading conversation as a sharing conversation is.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,508

    BBC News - Former Trump adviser John Bolton criminally indicted
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgql2qzkz5zo

    USA continues its descent into the next level of Mafiadom.
    Almost certainly, although it does seem as though everyone in America has confidential documents in their home.
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