Skip to content

Don’t push too far, your dreams are China in your hand – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,736
edited October 16 in General
Don’t push too far, your dreams are China in your hand – politicalbetting.com

With the government's role in the collapsed China spy case being questioned by the Conservatives and Lib Dems, just 14% of Britons say they are paying close attention to the storyVery / fairly closely: 14%Not very / not at all closely: 53%Not aware: 33%yougov.co.uk/topics/socie…

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,571
    edited October 16
    The 25% of Reform voters who say they are following the story very/fairly closely doesn't square with the normal image of Reform voters being disproportionately disengaged non-voters.

    Are Reform pushing the story particularly strongly through their social media?

    Even so, that result perhaps tells us something about the YouGov sample more than the actual public.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,486
    T'Pau

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,486
    On the topic - I also have not really been following this story.

    Has Jackson Lamb said who's guilty of spying yet?
  • T'Pau

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle 80s music reference.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,529

    T'Pau

    Star Trek
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,351
    edited October 16

    The 25% of Reform voters who say they are following the story very/fairly closely doesn't square with the normal image of Reform voters being disproportionately disengaged non-voters.

    Are Reform pushing the story particularly strongly through their social media?

    Even so, that result perhaps tells us something about the YouGov sample more than the actual public.

    It's been pushed on GB News a lot, it's a dream Reform story.

    Labour stops a trial against people who are accused of spying for China.

    Said accused worked for Tory MPs.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,562

    T'Pau

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle 80s music reference.
    Mr Eagles, your definition of subtle is somewhat different to the rest of us. That one’s as subtle as a brick through the window.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,535
    “He said while there was sufficient evidence when charges were originally brought against the two men, a precedent set by another spying case earlier this year meant China would need to have been labelled a "threat to national security" at the time of the alleged offences.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ex172rxwzo

    What I don’t understand is why that is the case? It seems an oddly specific requirement. And the failure appears to be on the CPS not saying, “We need these exact words.”
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,215
    Just listened to the 8am news on Heart FM, so you don't have to.

    Top story was ADHD diagnoses and fat jabs driving up waiting lists.

    Then there was the GDP numbers, prefaced as good news.

    Final story was Kim Kardashian and Kanye.

    Neither/none of the China scandals was anywhere.

    You're up to date.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,966

    Just listened to the 8am news on Heart FM, so you don't have to.

    Top story was ADHD diagnoses and fat jabs driving up waiting lists.

    Then there was the GDP numbers, prefaced as good news.

    Final story was Kim Kardashian and Kanye.

    Neither/none of the China scandals was anywhere.

    You're up to date.

    On the other hand, the Beeb is leading with the China spy story.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,503

    T'Pau

    I saw them play live once, supporting somebody else that I don't remember
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,136
    The first thing about this that I registered was that no misdeeds had happened at the time but current thinking sees the deeds as misdeeds now. Something about retroactive legislation needed perhaps.

    Goog morning, everybody.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,212

    T'Pau

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle 80s music reference.
    You put your heart and soul into it...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,351
    edited October 16
    Crikey, Survation have found there's a 37% Lab to Reform swing in Caerphilly

    Headline Voting Intention (likely voters vs 2021 Senedd elections)

    Base: All those likely to vote with undecided squeezed and those still undecided and refused removed
    If the by-election were held today:

    Llŷr Tomos Powell – Reform UK: 42% (+40)

    Lindsay Whittle – Plaid Cymru: 38% (+10)

    Richard Tunnicliffe – Labour: 12% (-34)

    Gareth John Potter – Conservative: 4% (-14)

    Steve Aicheler – Liberal Democrat: 1% (-1)

    Gareth Hughes – Green Party: 3% (+3)

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,486

    The 25% of Reform voters who say they are following the story very/fairly closely doesn't square with the normal image of Reform voters being disproportionately disengaged non-voters.

    Are Reform pushing the story particularly strongly through their social media?

    Even so, that result perhaps tells us something about the YouGov sample more than the actual public.

    It's been pushed on GB News a lot, it's a dream Reform story.

    Labour stops a trial against people who are accused of spying for China.

    Said accused worked for Tory MPs.
    If it was Russian espionage though?

  • The 25% of Reform voters who say they are following the story very/fairly closely doesn't square with the normal image of Reform voters being disproportionately disengaged non-voters.

    Are Reform pushing the story particularly strongly through their social media?

    Even so, that result perhaps tells us something about the YouGov sample more than the actual public.

    It's been pushed on GB News a lot, it's a dream Reform story.

    Labour stops a trial against people who are accused of spying for China.

    Said accused worked for Tory MPs.
    If it was Russian espionage though?

    ::Tumbleweeds::
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,562
    viewcode said:

    T'Pau

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle 80s music reference.
    You put your heart and soul into it...
    Much more subtle, that’s how you do ‘80s music references.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,535
    Sandpit said:

    “He said while there was sufficient evidence when charges were originally brought against the two men, a precedent set by another spying case earlier this year meant China would need to have been labelled a "threat to national security" at the time of the alleged offences.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ex172rxwzo

    What I don’t understand is why that is the case? It seems an oddly specific requirement. And the failure appears to be on the CPS not saying, “We need these exact words.”

    Every minister, shadow minister, and government department concerned with such matters, should be shouting from the rooftops that China is a threat to national security.

    Everyone needs to understand that China is a massive threat to national security, the biggest threat we’ve faced since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.
    It’s Russia who has actually invaded its neighbours and is behind numerous cyberattacks, but whichever you want to put as #1 in your list, that’s nothing to do with my point.

    My point is why does the criminal case require such a precise wording and why did the CPS not clearly communicate this need to government?
  • Sandpit said:

    “He said while there was sufficient evidence when charges were originally brought against the two men, a precedent set by another spying case earlier this year meant China would need to have been labelled a "threat to national security" at the time of the alleged offences.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ex172rxwzo

    What I don’t understand is why that is the case? It seems an oddly specific requirement. And the failure appears to be on the CPS not saying, “We need these exact words.”

    Every minister, shadow minister, and government department concerned with such matters, should be shouting from the rooftops that China is a threat to national security.

    Everyone needs to understand that China is a massive threat to national security, the biggest threat we’ve faced since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.
    It’s Russia who has actually invaded its neighbours and is behind numerous cyberattacks, but whichever you want to put as #1 in your list, that’s nothing to do with my point.

    My point is why does the criminal case require such a precise wording and why did the CPS not clearly communicate this need to government?
    A rare flaw with lawyers (perhaps the only flaw) is that they get bogged down in epistemological issues that do not need to exist.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,500
    The 14% who are following the China spy case closely need to find a life !
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,364
    Manager Appreciation Day (or National Boss’s Day) is October 16 and celebrates the leadership, guidance, and hard work that managers bring to the workplace.
    https://wellhub.com/en-us/blog/organizational-development/manager-appreciation-day/
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,547

    T'Pau

    Whose lead singer is so far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole she’d make certain PBers blush.

  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,186

    “He said while there was sufficient evidence when charges were originally brought against the two men, a precedent set by another spying case earlier this year meant China would need to have been labelled a "threat to national security" at the time of the alleged offences.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ex172rxwzo

    What I don’t understand is why that is the case? It seems an oddly specific requirement. And the failure appears to be on the CPS not saying, “We need these exact words.”

    My guess is that what they were passing on was sufficiently low grade to not constitute any kind of criminal offence if it were provided to a friendly or neutral government.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,612

    T'Pau

    Loved that song, brings back memories as I used to listen to the album along with another couple of big hit albums including the Pet Shop Boys at the time on my old cassette headphones walking to and from work when I was a newly qualified staff nurse when I started my first job in Edinburgh. I could not be bothered with taking more than one bus to and from work the shifts I worked, so I when I discovered I would have to hang around and take two, I just got into the habit of walking the whole journey directly from my flat to the hospital everyday listening to music.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,621

    Manager Appreciation Day (or National Boss’s Day) is October 16 and celebrates the leadership, guidance, and hard work that managers bring to the workplace.
    https://wellhub.com/en-us/blog/organizational-development/manager-appreciation-day/

    Coincidentally, this is also the time of year when bosses decide on the pay rises for their underlings.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,178
    Sandpit said:

    “He said while there was sufficient evidence when charges were originally brought against the two men, a precedent set by another spying case earlier this year meant China would need to have been labelled a "threat to national security" at the time of the alleged offences.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ex172rxwzo

    What I don’t understand is why that is the case? It seems an oddly specific requirement. And the failure appears to be on the CPS not saying, “We need these exact words.”

    Every minister, shadow minister, and government department concerned with such matters, should be shouting from the rooftops that China is a threat to national security.

    Everyone needs to understand that China is a massive threat to national security, the biggest threat we’ve faced since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.
    It’s a very different threat than the one we faced from the USSR - or indeed its belligerent successor.

    Russia never seriously challenged the west economically; China threatens to match us, and in some sectors clearly has already.
    The contest is less a military one (though they present a serious threat to the region, and perhaps globally) than it is to show that liberal democracies can overmatch them economically while retaining their freedoms.
  • T'Pau

    Whose lead singer is so far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole she’d make certain PBers blush.

    She did make me smile when she called Welsh a foreign language.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,562
    edited October 16

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,612

    T'Pau

    Whose lead singer is so far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole she’d make certain PBers blush.

    Oh, I thought for a minute you were referring to a Scottish lead singer who is well known for her support for Indy, but then some of her claims would equally make PBers blush....
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,835

    T'Pau

    By coincidence, I reminded myself of the top few songs of the fairly shallow T'Pau canon as recently as this weekend on a small trail of directing Spotify from The Subway to dream pop, George Harrison and back into the female led pop of the 1980s, which majored on Voice of the Beehive.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,547
    Ok, if AI can synthesise this particular brand of mediocrity camouflaged by blustering orotundity, I am now willing to bow down to out new overlords.

    https://x.com/adambienkov/status/1978719652143378473?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • T'Pau

    Whose lead singer is so far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole she’d make certain PBers blush.

    Although she provided a considerable public service when she was the landlady of the Cherry Tree Inn at Stoke Row. An excellent pub.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,758

    T'Pau

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle 80s music reference.
    Star Trek, surely.
  • Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    There is of course a way forward - develop and manufacture batteries in the west.

    MURICA - Batteries are ANTIFA
    UK - Ah, Yes, Brugh, BRITVOLT, er, right, oh
    EU - we want to make profit from the engines we already make

    Electrification is here and it can't be stopped. What the rage baiters foaming on about EVs don't get is that most people don't care that much about cars. Offer them a new one thats easier to drive cheaper to maintain and more reliable and they'll take it. And they are, with EV sales continuing to rise.

    ICE is on its way out, and China will rule the world unless the west wakes up and starts investing serious money.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,758
    edited October 16
    Phil said:

    Just listened to the 8am news on Heart FM, so you don't have to.

    Top story was ADHD diagnoses and fat jabs driving up waiting lists.

    Then there was the GDP numbers, prefaced as good news.

    Final story was Kim Kardashian and Kanye.

    Neither/none of the China scandals was anywhere.

    You're up to date.

    On the other hand, the Beeb is leading with the China spy story.
    Bash the government until they hand over more cash (licence fees or license fees for LuckyGuy)
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,209
    edited October 16
    I'll keep saying it. The reality story is Mandelson.Everything else is chaff.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,374
    The thing with spying is they spy on us, we spy on them. That probably applies to an extent to our supposed friends too, not just enemies and frenemies.

    Obviously it needs dealing with when we catch them, but I struggle to get particularly interested in it and can see why the public are indifferent.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,662

    “He said while there was sufficient evidence when charges were originally brought against the two men, a precedent set by another spying case earlier this year meant China would need to have been labelled a "threat to national security" at the time of the alleged offences.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ex172rxwzo

    What I don’t understand is why that is the case? It seems an oddly specific requirement. And the failure appears to be on the CPS not saying, “We need these exact words.”

    Best quite short analysis I have seen so far by someone who knows what they are talking about.

    https://davidallengreen.com/2025/10/trying-to-make-sense-of-the-nonsensical-decision-to-drop-the-chinese-spying-prosecutions/


    His conclusion - obvious to all really:

    The more one knows about this case, the more confusing it becomes.

    The CPS insists on further evidence it does not require, and the government insists it could not give that evidence, even though it could.

    Neither side makes sense, and together they make no sense absolutely.

    So either the CPS and the government simultaneously get themselves into an utter muddle on a major espionage prosecution.

    And such concurrent cock-ups are conceivable.

    Or there is another explanation.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,374

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    From a government politicians point of view. If we get on the wrong side of China, the price of stuff we don't need goes up, voters dislike inflation and will kick us out.

    From the opposition politicians point of view. Great opportunity to pretend I'd do differently, when I'd really do the same.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,595
    edited October 16

    I'll keep saying it. The reality story is Mandelson.Everything else is chaff.

    Surely you mean Nathan Gill?

    Though on the Epstein case this makes interesting reading. Very sad.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/15/prince-andrew-virginia-giuffre-abuse-epstein-maxwell?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,521
    Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    I think China is overplaying its hand here.

    There is a short-term hit from any such export controls for other countries. But medium-term it 1) accelerates the need for countries to diversity the source of key components - either reshoring or locating to developing nations; and 2) tariffs are inevitable on products like Chinese cars that are defacto subsidies by other Chinese trade policies.

    Given how little manufacturing the UK has left to protect, we might end up just importing lots of cheap Chinese cars etc as one of the only major economies without tariffs.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,364

    Ok, if AI can synthesise this particular brand of mediocrity camouflaged by blustering orotundity, I am now willing to bow down to out new overlords.

    https://x.com/adambienkov/status/1978719652143378473?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    The Mail might be wondering who actually writes the columns they pay Boris for.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,618
    Pro_Rata said:

    T'Pau

    By coincidence, I reminded myself of the top few songs of the fairly shallow T'Pau canon as recently as this weekend on a small trail of directing Spotify from The Subway to dream pop, George Harrison and back into the female led pop of the 1980s, which majored on Voice of the Beehive.
    Weirdly, on female led pop of the 80s, I ended up down a rabbit hole in a similar vein which brought up Strawberry Switchblade who I hadn’t heard for a very long time, much darker than my memory of them being pop music.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,562
    Another Russian S400 air defence radar taken out by a Ukranian drone.

    https://x.com/euromaidanpress/status/1978681835405107337

    Not sure how many of these the Russians have left now, they started the war with 54 of them in the whole of Russia.

    It’s hellishly amusing to see an *air defence system* crippled by flying weapons, when surely the whole point of an air defence system…
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,562
    boulay said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    T'Pau

    By coincidence, I reminded myself of the top few songs of the fairly shallow T'Pau canon as recently as this weekend on a small trail of directing Spotify from The Subway to dream pop, George Harrison and back into the female led pop of the 1980s, which majored on Voice of the Beehive.
    Weirdly, on female led pop of the 80s, I ended up down a rabbit hole in a similar vein which brought up Strawberry Switchblade who I hadn’t heard for a very long time, much darker than my memory of them being pop music.
    I’ve not listened to them since yesterday.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,618
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    T'Pau

    By coincidence, I reminded myself of the top few songs of the fairly shallow T'Pau canon as recently as this weekend on a small trail of directing Spotify from The Subway to dream pop, George Harrison and back into the female led pop of the 1980s, which majored on Voice of the Beehive.
    Weirdly, on female led pop of the 80s, I ended up down a rabbit hole in a similar vein which brought up Strawberry Switchblade who I hadn’t heard for a very long time, much darker than my memory of them being pop music.
    I’ve not listened to them since yesterday.
    Very droll.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,585

    a

    Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    There is of course a way forward - develop and manufacture batteries in the west.

    MURICA - Batteries are ANTIFA
    UK - Ah, Yes, Brugh, BRITVOLT, er, right, oh
    EU - we want to make profit from the engines we already make

    Electrification is here and it can't be stopped. What the rage baiters foaming on about EVs don't get is that most people don't care that much about cars. Offer them a new one thats easier to drive cheaper to maintain and more reliable and they'll take it. And they are, with EV sales continuing to rise.

    ICE is on its way out, and China will rule the world unless the west wakes up and starts investing serious money.
    And a reminder

    1) A speech about building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    2) A report on building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    3) A policy on building batteries isn’t building batteries.

    Building fuck off gigantic factories building batteries *is* building batteries.
    And solar panels. Of all the stupid things the Reform clowns want to do, switch off renewables is top of the heap. We will end up having to reverse course some years later and be so far behind that we will always then be reliant on other countries.

    We have abundant renewable sources, with so much energy flowing that we have to pay the companies to dump it as we can't transmit it and we can't consume it quickly enough. The obvious solution is better transmission - needed anyway as so little money has been spent by the private sector - and battery storage. And not just at big sites - local generation and storage.

    But no, the fukers want to shut the whole thing down, import more LNG and then we're fine apparently. Asshats the lot of them, whether they turn up to selection meetings in union jack shorts or not.
    The problem is that the other parties are no better.

    One Labour MP got interested in space for about 10 seconds. Then lambasted the British Government for not encouraging more launch start ups in the UK. When it was pointed out that they had personally campaigned against a particular test stand for rocket engines* in the UK - "but that's different"

    If you turned up in Northumberland and said "I want to build a gigafactory", you'd be on the receiving end of a political shit storm.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,562

    a

    Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    There is of course a way forward - develop and manufacture batteries in the west.

    MURICA - Batteries are ANTIFA
    UK - Ah, Yes, Brugh, BRITVOLT, er, right, oh
    EU - we want to make profit from the engines we already make

    Electrification is here and it can't be stopped. What the rage baiters foaming on about EVs don't get is that most people don't care that much about cars. Offer them a new one thats easier to drive cheaper to maintain and more reliable and they'll take it. And they are, with EV sales continuing to rise.

    ICE is on its way out, and China will rule the world unless the west wakes up and starts investing serious money.
    And a reminder

    1) A speech about building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    2) A report on building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    3) A policy on building batteries isn’t building batteries.

    Building fuck off gigantic factories building batteries *is* building batteries.
    https://strangestloop.io/essays/things-that-arent-doing-the-thing

    Preparing to do the thing isn't doing the thing.

    Scheduling time to do the thing isn't doing the thing.

    Making a to-do list for the thing isn't doing the thing.

    Telling people you're going to do the thing isn't doing the thing.

    Messaging friends who may or may not be doing the thing isn't doing the thing.

    Writing a banger tweet about how you're going to do the thing isn't doing the thing.

    Hating on yourself for not doing the thing isn't doing the thing. Hating on other people who have done the thing isn't doing the thing. Hating on the obstacles in the way of doing the thing isn't doing the thing.

    Fantasizing about all of the adoration you'll receive once you do the thing isn't doing the thing.

    Reading about how to do the thing isn't doing the thing. Reading about how other people did the thing isn't doing the thing. Reading this essay isn't doing the thing.

    The only thing that is doing the thing is doing the thing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,562
    boulay said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    T'Pau

    By coincidence, I reminded myself of the top few songs of the fairly shallow T'Pau canon as recently as this weekend on a small trail of directing Spotify from The Subway to dream pop, George Harrison and back into the female led pop of the 1980s, which majored on Voice of the Beehive.
    Weirdly, on female led pop of the 80s, I ended up down a rabbit hole in a similar vein which brought up Strawberry Switchblade who I hadn’t heard for a very long time, much darker than my memory of them being pop music.
    I’ve not listened to them since yesterday.
    Very droll.
    Just trying to show Mr Eagles how to do subtle ‘80s pop music references.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,585
    Sandpit said:

    Another Russian S400 air defence radar taken out by a Ukranian drone.

    https://x.com/euromaidanpress/status/1978681835405107337

    Not sure how many of these the Russians have left now, they started the war with 54 of them in the whole of Russia.

    It’s hellishly amusing to see an *air defence system* crippled by flying weapons, when surely the whole point of an air defence system…

    Read the history of SEAD....

  • Crikey, Survation have found there's a 37% Lab to Reform swing in Caerphilly

    Headline Voting Intention (likely voters vs 2021 Senedd elections)

    Base: All those likely to vote with undecided squeezed and those still undecided and refused removed
    If the by-election were held today:

    Llŷr Tomos Powell – Reform UK: 42% (+40)

    Lindsay Whittle – Plaid Cymru: 38% (+10)

    Richard Tunnicliffe – Labour: 12% (-34)

    Gareth John Potter – Conservative: 4% (-14)

    Steve Aicheler – Liberal Democrat: 1% (-1)

    Gareth Hughes – Green Party: 3% (+3)

    Good morning

    I am not the least bit surprised
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,903
    Interesting contrast. Countries spy on each other... Boo hoo.

    The UK has massively upped its activities in, for example, the European Union, since that is what the UK government needs to know more about, and whereas we used to simply ask, now we actually need to find out covertly.

    So of course China undertakes covert information operations against the UK. Unfortunately a couple of well placed sources seem to have been prepared to wittingly hand over information to Chinese intelligence. The cock up is that the prosecution have been able to argue that "China is not a threat". In fact *all* countries are a threat, so it really is abject incompetence that the case collapsed.

    Meanwhile Russia, a direct and explicit *military* threat to the UK, has been successfully bribing British politicians not merely to provide information, but to work actively for them. The egregious corruption that appears in the leadership of Reform UK, and the unresolved connections not merely to Russian intelligence but Russian active subversion against the UK is far more serious than the activities of the Chinese, and the relative silence in the media about long term connections between Russia and Farage is extremely sinister..

    Putin is a far greater danger than Xi, but that threat is being diminished by the courage and determination of Ukraine.

    "Red sky at night, Refinery's alight"
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,595
    boulay said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    T'Pau

    By coincidence, I reminded myself of the top few songs of the fairly shallow T'Pau canon as recently as this weekend on a small trail of directing Spotify from The Subway to dream pop, George Harrison and back into the female led pop of the 1980s, which majored on Voice of the Beehive.
    Weirdly, on female led pop of the 80s, I ended up down a rabbit hole in a similar vein which brought up Strawberry Switchblade who I hadn’t heard for a very long time, much darker than my memory of them being pop music.
    Recently I Ihave rediscovered Dolly Mixture, The Shop Assistants, The Pastels and a few more Eighties girl singer bands that had faded from my memory. All criminally underrated and neglected now.

  • a

    Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    There is of course a way forward - develop and manufacture batteries in the west.

    MURICA - Batteries are ANTIFA
    UK - Ah, Yes, Brugh, BRITVOLT, er, right, oh
    EU - we want to make profit from the engines we already make

    Electrification is here and it can't be stopped. What the rage baiters foaming on about EVs don't get is that most people don't care that much about cars. Offer them a new one thats easier to drive cheaper to maintain and more reliable and they'll take it. And they are, with EV sales continuing to rise.

    ICE is on its way out, and China will rule the world unless the west wakes up and starts investing serious money.
    And a reminder

    1) A speech about building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    2) A report on building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    3) A policy on building batteries isn’t building batteries.

    Building fuck off gigantic factories building batteries *is* building batteries.
    And solar panels. Of all the stupid things the Reform clowns want to do, switch off renewables is top of the heap. We will end up having to reverse course some years later and be so far behind that we will always then be reliant on other countries.

    We have abundant renewable sources, with so much energy flowing that we have to pay the companies to dump it as we can't transmit it and we can't consume it quickly enough. The obvious solution is better transmission - needed anyway as so little money has been spent by the private sector - and battery storage. And not just at big sites - local generation and storage.

    But no, the fukers want to shut the whole thing down, import more LNG and then we're fine apparently. Asshats the lot of them, whether they turn up to selection meetings in union jack shorts or not.
    The problem is that the other parties are no better.

    One Labour MP got interested in space for about 10 seconds. Then lambasted the British Government for not encouraging more launch start ups in the UK. When it was pointed out that they had personally campaigned against a particular test stand for rocket engines* in the UK - "but that's different"

    If you turned up in Northumberland and said "I want to build a gigafactory", you'd be on the receiving end of a political shit storm.
    Come build it here in Aberdeenshire. We are a world centre for energy, have a huge amount of technical expertise, great transport links including a choice of large ports geared to the needs of the energy sector, and more green power than we can transmit.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,374
    Absolutely shocked that Mone's company entered administration rather than pay back the country what they owe. Flabbergasted, I would have expected far better of a member of the House of Lords determined to clear her name.

    At least surely now the courts will step in and take quick and strident action against the directors and psc's.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,264

    Just listened to the 8am news on Heart FM, so you don't have to.

    Top story was ADHD diagnoses and fat jabs driving up waiting lists.

    Then there was the GDP numbers, prefaced as good news.

    Final story was Kim Kardashian and Kanye.

    Neither/none of the China scandals was anywhere.

    You're up to date.

    The economy expanded by 0.1%, the Office for National Statistics said, after contracting by 0.1% in July.

    That's a 0.01% contraction all else being equal.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,212

    Ok, if AI can synthesise this particular brand of mediocrity camouflaged by blustering orotundity, I am now willing to bow down to out new overlords.

    https://x.com/adambienkov/status/1978719652143378473?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    The Mail might be wondering who actually writes the columns they pay Boris for.
    An online newspaper automatically uploads unchecked an essay written by AI which is then clicked on by bots who didn't read it, so that podcasts with a neon sign and a microphone breathlessly discuss the essay they didn't read and lambast the author who didn't write it.

    I hate the 2020's.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,582

    a

    Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    There is of course a way forward - develop and manufacture batteries in the west.

    MURICA - Batteries are ANTIFA
    UK - Ah, Yes, Brugh, BRITVOLT, er, right, oh
    EU - we want to make profit from the engines we already make

    Electrification is here and it can't be stopped. What the rage baiters foaming on about EVs don't get is that most people don't care that much about cars. Offer them a new one thats easier to drive cheaper to maintain and more reliable and they'll take it. And they are, with EV sales continuing to rise.

    ICE is on its way out, and China will rule the world unless the west wakes up and starts investing serious money.
    And a reminder

    1) A speech about building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    2) A report on building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    3) A policy on building batteries isn’t building batteries.

    Building fuck off gigantic factories building batteries *is* building batteries.
    Yeah, but (1) to (3) is what our state is good at. These speeches, reports and policy documents will no doubt be very eloquent and with the appropriate classical references. The actual building stuff is a bit infra dig.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,264

    Crikey, Survation have found there's a 37% Lab to Reform swing in Caerphilly

    Headline Voting Intention (likely voters vs 2021 Senedd elections)

    Base: All those likely to vote with undecided squeezed and those still undecided and refused removed
    If the by-election were held today:

    Llŷr Tomos Powell – Reform UK: 42% (+40)

    Lindsay Whittle – Plaid Cymru: 38% (+10)

    Richard Tunnicliffe – Labour: 12% (-34)

    Gareth John Potter – Conservative: 4% (-14)

    Steve Aicheler – Liberal Democrat: 1% (-1)

    Gareth Hughes – Green Party: 3% (+3)

    Excellent for Plaid, east Glamorganshire is quite a way from their normal hunting grounds I think. Looks disastrous for Labour, if that's repeated across the valleys.
  • fitalass said:

    Foxy said:

    Funny how Reform voters are so interested in the rather opaque China spying trial collapse, yet completely uninterested in the conviction of a key friend and colleague of Farage for taking bribes to further the interests of Russia.

    I wonder why.

    Why don't you ask the Westminster Lobby or the UK wide news channels why that is the case, its been a serious problem now since devolution. There has been numerous political scandals in Scotland, Wales and NI for the last twenty five years and they simple do not get reported or forensically scrutinised by the London media. In fact a case in point, Nicola Sturgeon's actual record as FM in Scotland is absolutely terrible, she launched a ferry with no windows or funnels in 2017, it never saw service for another eight years and should never have been launched when it was for that big Sturgeon headline on the Scottish news. But the London media fawned over her and believed the huge spad driven narrative without so much as doing the most basic homework of scraping below the surface. The endless list of SNP government scandals would have ended a Westminster government years ago. And as for the Labour run Welsh government, ditto!

    So poor is the UK wide coverage of the devolved areas in the UK and the poor governance or scandals I once watched an episode of Question Time where an audience member in Wales ranted about the Westminster government's poor running of NHS Wales when they had not been in charge of it for years! It was embarrassing and it should have been a huge wake up call to the UK media, but it wasn't. So excuse me if I am not in the least surprised that the conviction of a key friend and colleague of Farage in Wales for taking bribes to further the interests of Russia has been of any more interest to Reform voters UK wide the rest of the UK electorate. And that is because they have probable not even heard about it thanks to the lack of UK wide reporting while the scandal of the Westminster China Spying trial is making the frontpages UK wide.

    To be fair to Newsnight, they did run a story a few years back about the ferries scandal in Scotland, but who was watching apart from political anoraks like me? I will go one better, why not ask Reform, Conservative, Labour, Libdem or any other voters on the mainland UK how many of them knew that there was no functioning devolved government at Stormont for three years? You get my point, if the UK media doesn't ever bother to scrutinise or report news from devolved areas in the way they do Westminster, don't bother trying to blame the ordinary voters from parties you don't like for not being aware of it. And I say this as a frustrated member of the Scottish Conservatives who are currently being hammered in the polls here by a faceless Scottish Reform party with no discernable leadership or policies while my party has been the most effective Opposition to the SNP and thankfully saw off the terrible GRR bill and its awful implications for women in Scotland!
    Its a problem. I was genuinely impressed by one of yours railing against Swinney openly lying to parliament - and of course the cybernats swing in with misinformation and abuse.

    Misinformation by the nats is in part why we have this comprehension mess in Scotland. They have been in office since General Wade and push so much guff in government that the bit of reporting we get is of the guff, and when you question it they say you're against Scotland.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,822
    edited October 16
    Regarding the MRP which gave "Your Party" 13 seats, this was my list of constituencies filtered by proportion of voters who went for an Islamic Indy in GE24 + Green over the Muslim population (Islamic Indy+Green)/Muslim population




    Ranked by Muslim proportion of the population it seems to resemble the MRP, which was

    Bradford West
    Blackburn
    Islington North
    Bethnal Green and Stepney
    Birmingham Ladywood
    Leicester South
    Birmingham Perry Barr
    Dewsbury and Batley
    Birmingham Hall Green and Moseley
    Slough
    Ilford South
    Ilford North
    East Ham



  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,585
    DavidL said:

    a

    Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    There is of course a way forward - develop and manufacture batteries in the west.

    MURICA - Batteries are ANTIFA
    UK - Ah, Yes, Brugh, BRITVOLT, er, right, oh
    EU - we want to make profit from the engines we already make

    Electrification is here and it can't be stopped. What the rage baiters foaming on about EVs don't get is that most people don't care that much about cars. Offer them a new one thats easier to drive cheaper to maintain and more reliable and they'll take it. And they are, with EV sales continuing to rise.

    ICE is on its way out, and China will rule the world unless the west wakes up and starts investing serious money.
    And a reminder

    1) A speech about building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    2) A report on building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    3) A policy on building batteries isn’t building batteries.

    Building fuck off gigantic factories building batteries *is* building batteries.
    Yeah, but (1) to (3) is what our state is good at. These speeches, reports and policy documents will no doubt be very eloquent and with the appropriate classical references. The actual building stuff is a bit infra dig.
    Do you think we could get the Chinese to steal the secrets at why we are so good at 1-3 ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,582

    a

    Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    There is of course a way forward - develop and manufacture batteries in the west.

    MURICA - Batteries are ANTIFA
    UK - Ah, Yes, Brugh, BRITVOLT, er, right, oh
    EU - we want to make profit from the engines we already make

    Electrification is here and it can't be stopped. What the rage baiters foaming on about EVs don't get is that most people don't care that much about cars. Offer them a new one thats easier to drive cheaper to maintain and more reliable and they'll take it. And they are, with EV sales continuing to rise.

    ICE is on its way out, and China will rule the world unless the west wakes up and starts investing serious money.
    And a reminder

    1) A speech about building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    2) A report on building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    3) A policy on building batteries isn’t building batteries.

    Building fuck off gigantic factories building batteries *is* building batteries.
    And solar panels. Of all the stupid things the Reform clowns want to do, switch off renewables is top of the heap. We will end up having to reverse course some years later and be so far behind that we will always then be reliant on other countries.

    We have abundant renewable sources, with so much energy flowing that we have to pay the companies to dump it as we can't transmit it and we can't consume it quickly enough. The obvious solution is better transmission - needed anyway as so little money has been spent by the private sector - and battery storage. And not just at big sites - local generation and storage.

    But no, the fukers want to shut the whole thing down, import more LNG and then we're fine apparently. Asshats the lot of them, whether they turn up to selection meetings in union jack shorts or not.
    The problem is that the other parties are no better.

    One Labour MP got interested in space for about 10 seconds. Then lambasted the British Government for not encouraging more launch start ups in the UK. When it was pointed out that they had personally campaigned against a particular test stand for rocket engines* in the UK - "but that's different"

    If you turned up in Northumberland and said "I want to build a gigafactory", you'd be on the receiving end of a political shit storm.
    Come build it here in Aberdeenshire. We are a world centre for energy, have a huge amount of technical expertise, great transport links including a choice of large ports geared to the needs of the energy sector, and more green power than we can transmit.
    And the jolly chaps and chapesses in Edinburgh and London - they will help? As opposed to sit back and watch as the Enquiry Industrial Complex fires up?

    A few years back, a friend was told that factories weren't wanted in the former Industrial North East - well, they were wanted, but not his* actual factory, and he needed to x, y and z before they would think about maybe not opposing it it too violently.

    So he built it in Malaysia. Where the government attitude was "Yay, factory! Here's agreements for next 20 years covering taxes, rules and regs. Here's the local union chap with a copy of the usual non-strike, negotiation setup here. Here are the 27 existing locations for factories. Here are the reps of the all the local factory construction companies.... Can we pencil you in for starting Wednesday?"

    *The company he worked for.
    In fairness there is a whole generation of private school pupils whose fees were paid by the endless inquiries into the Aberdeen by pass (and indeed the Piper Alpha case before that). It is time that Aberdeen thought about the next generation.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,374
    To those who still believe in both making cuts and law order, this is what we are doing to save £7m, or £1 a year per Londoner:

    "London will be left with just two police stations with front counters operating 24 hours a day, as ten more are set to close under cost-cutting measures - breaking a pledge made by the Metropolitan Police and the mayor of London.

    The number of front counters where the public can speak to officers will drop from 37 to 27, and be staffed between10:00 to 22:00 on weekdays and 09:00 to 19:00 on weekends.

    Only Lewisham and Charing Cross - where ten officers are currently under investigation by the police watchdog - will remain open 24 hours.

    The Met said it would save £7m but some of its staff and victim support groups say it could leave some people at risk if they need face-to-face contact."
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,582

    To those who still believe in both making cuts and law order, this is what we are doing to save £7m, or £1 a year per Londoner:

    "London will be left with just two police stations with front counters operating 24 hours a day, as ten more are set to close under cost-cutting measures - breaking a pledge made by the Metropolitan Police and the mayor of London.

    The number of front counters where the public can speak to officers will drop from 37 to 27, and be staffed between10:00 to 22:00 on weekdays and 09:00 to 19:00 on weekends.

    Only Lewisham and Charing Cross - where ten officers are currently under investigation by the police watchdog - will remain open 24 hours.

    The Met said it would save £7m but some of its staff and victim support groups say it could leave some people at risk if they need face-to-face contact."

    All I can say is thank goodness that our criminals keep regular hours as required under the Working Time Directive.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,212
    Pulpstar said:

    Crikey, Survation have found there's a 37% Lab to Reform swing in Caerphilly

    Headline Voting Intention (likely voters vs 2021 Senedd elections)

    Base: All those likely to vote with undecided squeezed and those still undecided and refused removed
    If the by-election were held today:

    Llŷr Tomos Powell – Reform UK: 42% (+40)

    Lindsay Whittle – Plaid Cymru: 38% (+10)

    Richard Tunnicliffe – Labour: 12% (-34)

    Gareth John Potter – Conservative: 4% (-14)

    Steve Aicheler – Liberal Democrat: 1% (-1)

    Gareth Hughes – Green Party: 3% (+3)

    Excellent for Plaid, east Glamorganshire is quite a way from their normal hunting grounds I think. Looks disastrous for Labour, if that's repeated across the valleys.
    Reform are 1/3 at Ladbrokes, Plaid are 2/1, Labour are 20/1. Plaid *might* be value here?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,595
    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    T'Pau

    By coincidence, I reminded myself of the top few songs of the fairly shallow T'Pau canon as recently as this weekend on a small trail of directing Spotify from The Subway to dream pop, George Harrison and back into the female led pop of the 1980s, which majored on Voice of the Beehive.
    Weirdly, on female led pop of the 80s, I ended up down a rabbit hole in a similar vein which brought up Strawberry Switchblade who I hadn’t heard for a very long time, much darker than my memory of them being pop music.
    Recently I Ihave rediscovered Dolly Mixture, The Shop Assistants, The Pastels and a few more Eighties girl singer bands that had faded from my memory. All criminally underrated and neglected now.

    Topically, here's "Somewhere in China" by the Shop Assistants:

    https://open.spotify.com/track/3NgzDpTQpAVHc2S5tGAlD0?si=nIWqUnwXRZiTN1UFSPz7zw
  • isamisam Posts: 42,822
    edited October 16
    Sorry, this was the relevant filter;

    Labour vote 24-(Islamic Indy 24-Green 24)

    Rank
    6 Blackburn
    8 Dewsbury & Batley
    1 Bradford W
    14 Leicester S
    9 Birmingham PB
    2 Birmingham HG & Mosely
    20 Ilford N
    10 Birmingham Yardley
    22 Rochdale
    12 Birmingham HH & SN
    4 Bethnal Green
    3 Birmingham Ladywood
    19 Slough
    18 Oldham W
    33 Walsall and Bloxwich
    21 Luton S
    11 Ilford South
    7 Bradford E
    16 Luton N
    38 Bradford S
    26 West Ham & Beckton
    35 Oldham E & Saddleworth
    28 Leicester E
    29 Bolton S
    15 Manchester Rusholme
    37 Holborn & St P
    13 Poplar & Limehouse
    25 Barking
    5 East Ham
    17 Stratford & Bow
    40 Smethwick
    23 Gorton & Denton
    34 Hudddersfield
    24 Brent E
    36 Ealing N
    31 Edmonton & Winchmore Hill
    27 Queens Park & Maida Vale
    39 Hayes & Harlington
    32 Leyton & Wanstead
    30 Walthamstow


    and the MRP had

    Bradford West
    Blackburn
    Islington North
    Bethnal Green and Stepney
    Birmingham Ladywood
    Leicester South
    Birmingham Perry Barr
    Dewsbury and Batley
    Birmingham Hall Green and Moseley
    Slough
    Ilford South
    Ilford North
    East Ham
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,178

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    Everything else.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,621
    Pulpstar said:

    Just listened to the 8am news on Heart FM, so you don't have to.

    Top story was ADHD diagnoses and fat jabs driving up waiting lists.

    Then there was the GDP numbers, prefaced as good news.

    Final story was Kim Kardashian and Kanye.

    Neither/none of the China scandals was anywhere.

    You're up to date.

    The economy expanded by 0.1%, the Office for National Statistics said, after contracting by 0.1% in July.

    That's a 0.01% contraction all else being equal.
    Time for a lecture on the difference between accuracy and precision?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,212
    Pulpstar said:

    Crikey, Survation have found there's a 37% Lab to Reform swing in Caerphilly

    Headline Voting Intention (likely voters vs 2021 Senedd elections)

    Base: All those likely to vote with undecided squeezed and those still undecided and refused removed
    If the by-election were held today:

    Llŷr Tomos Powell – Reform UK: 42% (+40)

    Lindsay Whittle – Plaid Cymru: 38% (+10)

    Richard Tunnicliffe – Labour: 12% (-34)

    Gareth John Potter – Conservative: 4% (-14)

    Steve Aicheler – Liberal Democrat: 1% (-1)

    Gareth Hughes – Green Party: 3% (+3)

    ...Looks disastrous for Labour, if that's repeated across the valleys.
    This is why I keep muttering "Olympus has fallen" whenever things like this come out. We have discussed the end of Conservative Party as a serious force, but we haven't internalised a similar fate for Labour. If the valleys go Reform, where is left for them?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,178

    Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    There is of course a way forward - develop and manufacture batteries in the west.

    MURICA - Batteries are ANTIFA
    UK - Ah, Yes, Brugh, BRITVOLT, er, right, oh
    EU - we want to make profit from the engines we already make

    Electrification is here and it can't be stopped. What the rage baiters foaming on about EVs don't get is that most people don't care that much about cars. Offer them a new one thats easier to drive cheaper to maintain and more reliable and they'll take it. And they are, with EV sales continuing to rise.

    ICE is on its way out, and China will rule the world unless the west wakes up and starts investing serious money.
    That's been clear for a decade.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,264

    Pulpstar said:

    Just listened to the 8am news on Heart FM, so you don't have to.

    Top story was ADHD diagnoses and fat jabs driving up waiting lists.

    Then there was the GDP numbers, prefaced as good news.

    Final story was Kim Kardashian and Kanye.

    Neither/none of the China scandals was anywhere.

    You're up to date.

    The economy expanded by 0.1%, the Office for National Statistics said, after contracting by 0.1% in July.

    That's a 0.01% contraction all else being equal.
    Time for a lecture on the difference between accuracy and precision?
    No. All else being equal

    In other news.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/meze-mangal-london-lewisham-restaurant-kitchen-fan-council-planning-rules-b1251616.html

    OK So they should have got PP for the fan, but denying retrospective pp for a restaurant extractor system seems extraordinary by the council, and the penalty completely excessive.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,547
    Shocking how the state broadcaster continually lets off the EssEnPee.

    Google search: Scottish ferry scandal bbc

    About 67,200 results (0.36s)

    Time they put objective Scottish commentators like FTP1690 in charge.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 232
    Pulpstar said:

    Crikey, Survation have found there's a 37% Lab to Reform swing in Caerphilly

    Headline Voting Intention (likely voters vs 2021 Senedd elections)

    Base: All those likely to vote with undecided squeezed and those still undecided and refused removed
    If the by-election were held today:

    Llŷr Tomos Powell – Reform UK: 42% (+40)

    Lindsay Whittle – Plaid Cymru: 38% (+10)

    Richard Tunnicliffe – Labour: 12% (-34)

    Gareth John Potter – Conservative: 4% (-14)

    Steve Aicheler – Liberal Democrat: 1% (-1)

    Gareth Hughes – Green Party: 3% (+3)

    Excellent for Plaid, east Glamorganshire is quite a way from their normal hunting grounds I think. Looks disastrous for Labour, if that's repeated across the valleys.
    Point of order. Caerphilly is now considered as part of Gwent. They have also won the neighbouring Islwyn seat previously, so not that unknown for them.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,612

    fitalass said:

    Foxy said:

    Funny how Reform voters are so interested in the rather opaque China spying trial collapse, yet completely uninterested in the conviction of a key friend and colleague of Farage for taking bribes to further the interests of Russia.

    I wonder why.

    Why don't you ask the Westminster Lobby or the UK wide news channels why that is the case, its been a serious problem now since devolution. There has been numerous political scandals in Scotland, Wales and NI for the last twenty five years and they simple do not get reported or forensically scrutinised by the London media. In fact a case in point, Nicola Sturgeon's actual record as FM in Scotland is absolutely terrible, she launched a ferry with no windows or funnels in 2017, it never saw service for another eight years and should never have been launched when it was for that big Sturgeon headline on the Scottish news. But the London media fawned over her and believed the huge spad driven narrative without so much as doing the most basic homework of scraping below the surface. The endless list of SNP government scandals would have ended a Westminster government years ago. And as for the Labour run Welsh government, ditto!

    So poor is the UK wide coverage of the devolved areas in the UK and the poor governance or scandals I once watched an episode of Question Time where an audience member in Wales ranted about the Westminster government's poor running of NHS Wales when they had not been in charge of it for years! It was embarrassing and it should have been a huge wake up call to the UK media, but it wasn't. So excuse me if I am not in the least surprised that the conviction of a key friend and colleague of Farage in Wales for taking bribes to further the interests of Russia has been of any more interest to Reform voters UK wide the rest of the UK electorate. And that is because they have probable not even heard about it thanks to the lack of UK wide reporting while the scandal of the Westminster China Spying trial is making the frontpages UK wide.

    To be fair to Newsnight, they did run a story a few years back about the ferries scandal in Scotland, but who was watching apart from political anoraks like me? I will go one better, why not ask Reform, Conservative, Labour, Libdem or any other voters on the mainland UK how many of them knew that there was no functioning devolved government at Stormont for three years? You get my point, if the UK media doesn't ever bother to scrutinise or report news from devolved areas in the way they do Westminster, don't bother trying to blame the ordinary voters from parties you don't like for not being aware of it. And I say this as a frustrated member of the Scottish Conservatives who are currently being hammered in the polls here by a faceless Scottish Reform party with no discernable leadership or policies while my party has been the most effective Opposition to the SNP and thankfully saw off the terrible GRR bill and its awful implications for women in Scotland!
    Its a problem. I was genuinely impressed by one of yours railing against Swinney openly lying to parliament - and of course the cybernats swing in with misinformation and abuse.

    Misinformation by the nats is in part why we have this comprehension mess in Scotland. They have been in office since General Wade and push so much guff in government that the bit of reporting we get is of the guff, and when you question it they say you're against Scotland.
    RochdalePioneers, seconded. But we have the added the problem of such poor and hollowed out journalistic reporting from BBC Scotland and STV News which I jokingly call SNP News. Thank god for the again now hollowed out printed media in Scotland for doing all the heavy lifting mostly on their own and mostly ignored by BBC Scotland and STV. I am trying to remember which SNP scandal it was that broke a couple of years ago, but the STV teatime news didn't mention it for two days!

    I read an article a couple of days ago about how BBC Scotland was struggling to invest and make enough content and as a result it was struggling to compete with streaming channels. But thanks to the pressure from the SNP Government in Scotland they launched that white elephant of a second channel and all to produce a fecking 'Scottish' evening news programme that no one watches and they were left to fill the rest of their small evening programme with mostly repeats from the BBC Scotland archives from years ago!

    How many news journalists or new Scottish programming fell by the way side funding this ridiculous demand by the SNP Government. Its just yet another example of their wasteful incompetent demands in an attempt to appear a nation in waiting for Indy. And do not get me started on the wasteful 'Scottish' extortionately expensive' embassies that do sod all to promote or help Scots abroad and simple give Angus Robertson a reason to visit them on his many travels abroad!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,081
    How difficult would 12% for Labour in Caerphilly be for Starmer?
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,874
    ...
    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Crikey, Survation have found there's a 37% Lab to Reform swing in Caerphilly

    Headline Voting Intention (likely voters vs 2021 Senedd elections)

    Base: All those likely to vote with undecided squeezed and those still undecided and refused removed
    If the by-election were held today:

    Llŷr Tomos Powell – Reform UK: 42% (+40)

    Lindsay Whittle – Plaid Cymru: 38% (+10)

    Richard Tunnicliffe – Labour: 12% (-34)

    Gareth John Potter – Conservative: 4% (-14)

    Steve Aicheler – Liberal Democrat: 1% (-1)

    Gareth Hughes – Green Party: 3% (+3)

    ...Looks disastrous for Labour, if that's repeated across the valleys.
    This is why I keep muttering "Olympus has fallen" whenever things like this come out. We have discussed the end of Conservative Party as a serious force, but we haven't internalised a similar fate for Labour. If the valleys go Reform, where is left for them?

    Not the young - YouGov now have Green/Lab crossover in the 18-24 range.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,374
    DavidL said:

    To those who still believe in both making cuts and law order, this is what we are doing to save £7m, or £1 a year per Londoner:

    "London will be left with just two police stations with front counters operating 24 hours a day, as ten more are set to close under cost-cutting measures - breaking a pledge made by the Metropolitan Police and the mayor of London.

    The number of front counters where the public can speak to officers will drop from 37 to 27, and be staffed between10:00 to 22:00 on weekdays and 09:00 to 19:00 on weekends.

    Only Lewisham and Charing Cross - where ten officers are currently under investigation by the police watchdog - will remain open 24 hours.

    The Met said it would save £7m but some of its staff and victim support groups say it could leave some people at risk if they need face-to-face contact."

    All I can say is thank goodness that our criminals keep regular hours as required under the Working Time Directive.
    Finishing early Saturday evenings feels particularly strange, although the late night pub fights do seem far less of a thing than 25 years ago or beyond.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,585
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just listened to the 8am news on Heart FM, so you don't have to.

    Top story was ADHD diagnoses and fat jabs driving up waiting lists.

    Then there was the GDP numbers, prefaced as good news.

    Final story was Kim Kardashian and Kanye.

    Neither/none of the China scandals was anywhere.

    You're up to date.

    The economy expanded by 0.1%, the Office for National Statistics said, after contracting by 0.1% in July.

    That's a 0.01% contraction all else being equal.
    Time for a lecture on the difference between accuracy and precision?
    No. All else being equal

    In other news.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/meze-mangal-london-lewisham-restaurant-kitchen-fan-council-planning-rules-b1251616.html

    OK So they should have got PP for the fan, but denying retrospective pp for a restaurant extractor system seems extraordinary by the council, and the penalty completely excessive.
    In Hammersmith, recently, they did an immigration employment raid

    Managed to miss the chain outlets. And the Deliveroo riders. And the place that is known to be owned by a Turkish gangster (very nasty guy)

    But they managed to accident raid several places (right next to Kaiser Soze) owned by independents.

    Funny that.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,571
    DavidL said:

    a

    Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    There is of course a way forward - develop and manufacture batteries in the west.

    MURICA - Batteries are ANTIFA
    UK - Ah, Yes, Brugh, BRITVOLT, er, right, oh
    EU - we want to make profit from the engines we already make

    Electrification is here and it can't be stopped. What the rage baiters foaming on about EVs don't get is that most people don't care that much about cars. Offer them a new one thats easier to drive cheaper to maintain and more reliable and they'll take it. And they are, with EV sales continuing to rise.

    ICE is on its way out, and China will rule the world unless the west wakes up and starts investing serious money.
    And a reminder

    1) A speech about building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    2) A report on building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    3) A policy on building batteries isn’t building batteries.

    Building fuck off gigantic factories building batteries *is* building batteries.
    Yeah, but (1) to (3) is what our state is good at. These speeches, reports and policy documents will no doubt be very eloquent and with the appropriate classical references. The actual building stuff is a bit infra dig.
    One of the exemplars of this was when a Tory Cabinet Minister had the photo opportunity with the winning design in a competition for EV car chargers, which the government was going to fund the installation of precisely zero chargers.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,500
    Andy_JS said:

    How difficult would 12% for Labour in Caerphilly be for Starmer?

    It might be even less than that if there’s tactical voting to keep out Reform !
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,947
    edited October 16
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Foxy said:

    Funny how Reform voters are so interested in the rather opaque China spying trial collapse, yet completely uninterested in the conviction of a key friend and colleague of Farage for taking bribes to further the interests of Russia.

    I wonder why.

    Why don't you ask the Westminster Lobby or the UK wide news channels why that is the case, its been a serious problem now since devolution. There has been numerous political scandals in Scotland, Wales and NI for the last twenty five years and they simple do not get reported or forensically scrutinised by the London media. In fact a case in point, Nicola Sturgeon's actual record as FM in Scotland is absolutely terrible, she launched a ferry with no windows or funnels in 2017, it never saw service for another eight years and should never have been launched when it was for that big Sturgeon headline on the Scottish news. But the London media fawned over her and believed the huge spad driven narrative without so much as doing the most basic homework of scraping below the surface. The endless list of SNP government scandals would have ended a Westminster government years ago. And as for the Labour run Welsh government, ditto!

    So poor is the UK wide coverage of the devolved areas in the UK and the poor governance or scandals I once watched an episode of Question Time where an audience member in Wales ranted about the Westminster government's poor running of NHS Wales when they had not been in charge of it for years! It was embarrassing and it should have been a huge wake up call to the UK media, but it wasn't. So excuse me if I am not in the least surprised that the conviction of a key friend and colleague of Farage in Wales for taking bribes to further the interests of Russia has been of any more interest to Reform voters UK wide the rest of the UK electorate. And that is because they have probable not even heard about it thanks to the lack of UK wide reporting while the scandal of the Westminster China Spying trial is making the frontpages UK wide.

    To be fair to Newsnight, they did run a story a few years back about the ferries scandal in Scotland, but who was watching apart from political anoraks like me? I will go one better, why not ask Reform, Conservative, Labour, Libdem or any other voters on the mainland UK how many of them knew that there was no functioning devolved government at Stormont for three years? You get my point, if the UK media doesn't ever bother to scrutinise or report news from devolved areas in the way they do Westminster, don't bother trying to blame the ordinary voters from parties you don't like for not being aware of it. And I say this as a frustrated member of the Scottish Conservatives who are currently being hammered in the polls here by a faceless Scottish Reform party with no discernable leadership or policies while my party has been the most effective Opposition to the SNP and thankfully saw off the terrible GRR bill and its awful implications for women in Scotland!
    Its a problem. I was genuinely impressed by one of yours railing against Swinney openly lying to parliament - and of course the cybernats swing in with misinformation and abuse.

    Misinformation by the nats is in part why we have this comprehension mess in Scotland. They have been in office since General Wade and push so much guff in government that the bit of reporting we get is of the guff, and when you question it they say you're against Scotland.
    RochdalePioneers, seconded. But we have the added the problem of such poor and hollowed out journalistic reporting from BBC Scotland and STV News which I jokingly call SNP News. Thank god for the again now hollowed out printed media in Scotland for doing all the heavy lifting mostly on their own and mostly ignored by BBC Scotland and STV. I am trying to remember which SNP scandal it was that broke a couple of years ago, but the STV teatime news didn't mention it for two days!

    I read an article a couple of days ago about how BBC Scotland was struggling to invest and make enough content and as a result it was struggling to compete with streaming channels. But thanks to the pressure from the SNP Government in Scotland they launched that white elephant of a second channel and all to produce a fecking 'Scottish' evening news programme that no one watches and they were left to fill the rest of their small evening programme with mostly repeats from the BBC Scotland archives from years ago!

    How many news journalists or new Scottish programming fell by the way side funding this ridiculous demand by the SNP Government. Its just yet another example of their wasteful incompetent demands in an attempt to appear a nation in waiting for Indy. And do not get me started on the wasteful 'Scottish' extortionately expensive' embassies that do sod all to promote or help Scots abroad and simple give Angus Robertson a reason to visit them on his many travels abroad!
    I think you must not be old enough to remember what happened to the Scottish national newspapers.

    Scotsman - went from middle of the road to hard Unionist DT emulator, and abandoned its central Edinburgh office building for a new one opposite Holyrood which it then abandoned for some industrial estate somewhere I can't remember

    Herald - ditto change from middle of the road, lost so much circulation it had to set up the National as a not very SNP-friendly way of trying to recover some of the lost income

    Edit: A decade and more later, I'm still bitterly angry about the Scotsman. I grew up on it and miss it enormously.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,081
    Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    We mustn't be dependent on them for anything important.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,264

    Pulpstar said:

    Crikey, Survation have found there's a 37% Lab to Reform swing in Caerphilly

    Headline Voting Intention (likely voters vs 2021 Senedd elections)

    Base: All those likely to vote with undecided squeezed and those still undecided and refused removed
    If the by-election were held today:

    Llŷr Tomos Powell – Reform UK: 42% (+40)

    Lindsay Whittle – Plaid Cymru: 38% (+10)

    Richard Tunnicliffe – Labour: 12% (-34)

    Gareth John Potter – Conservative: 4% (-14)

    Steve Aicheler – Liberal Democrat: 1% (-1)

    Gareth Hughes – Green Party: 3% (+3)

    Excellent for Plaid, east Glamorganshire is quite a way from their normal hunting grounds I think. Looks disastrous for Labour, if that's repeated across the valleys.
    Point of order. Caerphilly is now considered as part of Gwent. They have also won the neighbouring Islwyn seat previously, so not that unknown for them.
    I prefer historic counties, the ones where Middlesborough is in the right place.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 232
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Crikey, Survation have found there's a 37% Lab to Reform swing in Caerphilly

    Headline Voting Intention (likely voters vs 2021 Senedd elections)

    Base: All those likely to vote with undecided squeezed and those still undecided and refused removed
    If the by-election were held today:

    Llŷr Tomos Powell – Reform UK: 42% (+40)

    Lindsay Whittle – Plaid Cymru: 38% (+10)

    Richard Tunnicliffe – Labour: 12% (-34)

    Gareth John Potter – Conservative: 4% (-14)

    Steve Aicheler – Liberal Democrat: 1% (-1)

    Gareth Hughes – Green Party: 3% (+3)

    Excellent for Plaid, east Glamorganshire is quite a way from their normal hunting grounds I think. Looks disastrous for Labour, if that's repeated across the valleys.
    Point of order. Caerphilly is now considered as part of Gwent. They have also won the neighbouring Islwyn seat previously, so not that unknown for them.
    I prefer historic counties, the ones where Middlesborough is in the right place.
    I quite agree. Bring back greater Monmouthshire!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,264
    Nigelb said:

    .

    a

    Sandpit said:

    If we get on the wrong side of China, they might stop selling us tat that we don't need.

    What am I missing here?

    It’s worse than that.

    Their plan is to stop selling us things that we might really need, such as EV batteries, so they can instead sell us their cars by denying European and American manufacturers the batteries - because Europe and America don’t have the technology to produce the new improved batteries the Chinese are now making.

    This is why Trump is talking about 100% tariffs on China, and other Western nations face the same dilemma.
    There is of course a way forward - develop and manufacture batteries in the west.

    MURICA - Batteries are ANTIFA
    UK - Ah, Yes, Brugh, BRITVOLT, er, right, oh
    EU - we want to make profit from the engines we already make

    Electrification is here and it can't be stopped. What the rage baiters foaming on about EVs don't get is that most people don't care that much about cars. Offer them a new one thats easier to drive cheaper to maintain and more reliable and they'll take it. And they are, with EV sales continuing to rise.

    ICE is on its way out, and China will rule the world unless the west wakes up and starts investing serious money.
    And a reminder

    1) A speech about building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    2) A report on building batteries isn’t building batteries.
    3) A policy on building batteries isn’t building batteries.

    Building fuck off gigantic factories building batteries *is* building batteries.
    And solar panels. Of all the stupid things the Reform clowns want to do, switch off renewables is top of the heap. We will end up having to reverse course some years later and be so far behind that we will always then be reliant on other countries.

    We have abundant renewable sources, with so much energy flowing that we have to pay the companies to dump it as we can't transmit it and we can't consume it quickly enough. The obvious solution is better transmission - needed anyway as so little money has been spent by the private sector - and battery storage. And not just at big sites - local generation and storage.

    But no, the fukers want to shut the whole thing down, import more LNG and then we're fine apparently. Asshats the lot of them, whether they turn up to selection meetings in union jack shorts or not.
    ALL of that has been pretty clear for a decade. We've certainly been arguing about it here for at least as long as that.

    The difference is that all the stuff people said wouldn't happen - renewables cheaper than fossil fuel; EVs cheaper than ICE cars; battery storage capable of solving daily intermittency economically etc has either now happened, or is about to be delivered within this decade.

    We've not seriously planned for any of that - while China bet their future on it.

    Time to end the denial.
    China has no ideological opposition to either coal or solar. They are using terawatts of both, an entirely practical energy policy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,264
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Crikey, Survation have found there's a 37% Lab to Reform swing in Caerphilly

    Headline Voting Intention (likely voters vs 2021 Senedd elections)

    Base: All those likely to vote with undecided squeezed and those still undecided and refused removed
    If the by-election were held today:

    Llŷr Tomos Powell – Reform UK: 42% (+40)

    Lindsay Whittle – Plaid Cymru: 38% (+10)

    Richard Tunnicliffe – Labour: 12% (-34)

    Gareth John Potter – Conservative: 4% (-14)

    Steve Aicheler – Liberal Democrat: 1% (-1)

    Gareth Hughes – Green Party: 3% (+3)

    Excellent for Plaid, east Glamorganshire is quite a way from their normal hunting grounds I think. Looks disastrous for Labour, if that's repeated across the valleys.
    Point of order. Caerphilly is now considered as part of Gwent. They have also won the neighbouring Islwyn seat previously, so not that unknown for them.
    I prefer historic counties, the ones where Middlesborough is in the right place.
    Middlesbrough !
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,621
    edited October 16
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Crikey, Survation have found there's a 37% Lab to Reform swing in Caerphilly

    Headline Voting Intention (likely voters vs 2021 Senedd elections)

    Base: All those likely to vote with undecided squeezed and those still undecided and refused removed
    If the by-election were held today:

    Llŷr Tomos Powell – Reform UK: 42% (+40)

    Lindsay Whittle – Plaid Cymru: 38% (+10)

    Richard Tunnicliffe – Labour: 12% (-34)

    Gareth John Potter – Conservative: 4% (-14)

    Steve Aicheler – Liberal Democrat: 1% (-1)

    Gareth Hughes – Green Party: 3% (+3)

    Excellent for Plaid, east Glamorganshire is quite a way from their normal hunting grounds I think. Looks disastrous for Labour, if that's repeated across the valleys.
    Point of order. Caerphilly is now considered as part of Gwent. They have also won the neighbouring Islwyn seat previously, so not that unknown for them.
    I prefer historic counties, the ones where Middlesborough is in the right place.
    Small town in Yorkshire
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,222

    fitalass said:

    Foxy said:

    Funny how Reform voters are so interested in the rather opaque China spying trial collapse, yet completely uninterested in the conviction of a key friend and colleague of Farage for taking bribes to further the interests of Russia.

    I wonder why.

    Why don't you ask the Westminster Lobby or the UK wide news channels why that is the case, its been a serious problem now since devolution. There has been numerous political scandals in Scotland, Wales and NI for the last twenty five years and they simple do not get reported or forensically scrutinised by the London media. In fact a case in point, Nicola Sturgeon's actual record as FM in Scotland is absolutely terrible, she launched a ferry with no windows or funnels in 2017, it never saw service for another eight years and should never have been launched when it was for that big Sturgeon headline on the Scottish news. But the London media fawned over her and believed the huge spad driven narrative without so much as doing the most basic homework of scraping below the surface. The endless list of SNP government scandals would have ended a Westminster government years ago. And as for the Labour run Welsh government, ditto!

    So poor is the UK wide coverage of the devolved areas in the UK and the poor governance or scandals I once watched an episode of Question Time where an audience member in Wales ranted about the Westminster government's poor running of NHS Wales when they had not been in charge of it for years! It was embarrassing and it should have been a huge wake up call to the UK media, but it wasn't. So excuse me if I am not in the least surprised that the conviction of a key friend and colleague of Farage in Wales for taking bribes to further the interests of Russia has been of any more interest to Reform voters UK wide the rest of the UK electorate. And that is because they have probable not even heard about it thanks to the lack of UK wide reporting while the scandal of the Westminster China Spying trial is making the frontpages UK wide.

    To be fair to Newsnight, they did run a story a few years back about the ferries scandal in Scotland, but who was watching apart from political anoraks like me? I will go one better, why not ask Reform, Conservative, Labour, Libdem or any other voters on the mainland UK how many of them knew that there was no functioning devolved government at Stormont for three years? You get my point, if the UK media doesn't ever bother to scrutinise or report news from devolved areas in the way they do Westminster, don't bother trying to blame the ordinary voters from parties you don't like for not being aware of it. And I say this as a frustrated member of the Scottish Conservatives who are currently being hammered in the polls here by a faceless Scottish Reform party with no discernable leadership or policies while my party has been the most effective Opposition to the SNP and thankfully saw off the terrible GRR bill and its awful implications for women in Scotland!
    Its a problem. I was genuinely impressed by one of yours railing against Swinney openly lying to parliament - and of course the cybernats swing in with misinformation and abuse.

    Misinformation by the nats is in part why we have this comprehension mess in Scotland. They have been in office since General Wade and push so much guff in government that the bit of reporting we get is of the guff, and when you question it they say you're against Scotland.
    Essentially the SNP are able to present themselves as "Scotland's party" and are best able to to extricate a deal from Westminster. And, to be fair, judging by the Barnett consequentials, the threat from Indy has worked the trick. Scotland gets a great deal but the Westminster parties get very little credit. Always easier to feel hard-done-by than satisfied.

    Also, supporters of the SNP are much less transactional than those for the other parties. More like football fans. You don't stop supporting Celtic because the management is rubbish, or they keep scoring own goals.
Sign In or Register to comment.