"Britons split on whether they would prefer Labour or Reform UK to win the next election
If given a choice between the Labour party led by Keir Starmer and Reform UK led by Nigel Farage, Britons are split on which party they would prefer to win the next General Election. 38% say the Labour party led by Keir Starmer, while 35% say Reform UK led by Nigel Farage."
Imgur access in the United Kingdom From September 30, 2025, access to Imgur from the United Kingdom is no longer available. UK users will not be able to log in, view content, or upload images. Imgur content embedded on third-party sites will not display for UK users.
OSA
first blood to OSA
The unintended consequences slowly take effect - not that I will notice from "Ireland"...
Teaching an entire generation of teens about Tor and VPNs is going to have exactly zero downsides.
What it's going to do is move using a VPN from being something for adult purposes to something required to just ensure a site still makes sense.
There are a number of forums I visit where Imgur is part of the entertainment, it's probably going to result in me needing to install a VPN for my wife as well as just my personal use...
Replace your current router with a Unifi one. Setup a VPN client connection from your router to a reliable VPN provider (like Proton). Setup traffic rules on the router to ensure that communication with imgur is over the VPN.
I could but that's more work than I'm arsed to do - may as well just reroute the lot - so far the only downside is adverts for a particular Galway bar (if I'm in the area I will visit just to apologise for the "wasted" advertising spend
On the racism stuff, Starmer chose his words very carefully. He did not throw the racism allegation at Reform, Farage, or Reform voters. It was aimed at one specific Reform policy - namely the threat to retrospectively deport some people who have already been granted ILR or settled status or whatever you want to call it. He explicitly said that it is not racist to want to control our borders, or to deport those who are here illegally or have committed serious crimes.
Farage, in the video I've seen, is deliberately misrepresenting what Starmer said. No surprise, though.
If he said it and didn’t factor in the risk of being misrepresented on that point, he’s a fool.
I'm sure he did factor that in, and went ahead anyway. Did you listen to the speech? The 'racism' point was contextualised well, referring to the potential threat to long-term immigrants who are our family, friends, colleagues, NHS workers and so on. It's a fair point, and he made it well.
I understand the argument. And I understand what he is saying. I think the Reform policy on ILR is the biggest gap in their armour that they’ve exposed so far, so Labour are right to attack it. My point is that going in with the “r” word is high risk strategy from Labour. Used sparingly and effectively it might work. The danger is that for all the caveats, it is easy for opponents to represent it as a “Labour are calling everyone who disagrees with them racist”. That is the risk in an age of instant news and social media.
It is also much riskier advancing that argument against a party with 28-33% support in the polls, rather than 2-5%.
I agree it's a risky strategy, and I agree that Starmer's words will be misquoted and distorted. But what he is trying to do is address not the 30-40% who may or will vote Reform but the 60% or so who won't. in the end both Labour and sanity need a lot of people to vote tactically. In a lot of cases that's Labour. He can't say that but that is the effective implication of morally isolating Reform.
The real problem is with the Tories. Do they join with Lab, LD etc in isolating Reform or not. Probably not.
Electorally, looking at 2029 I suspect Labour's real tactic is twofold. One, identify and mobilise the 60% who won't vote Reform. Two, ensure that the Tory vote impinges on the Reform vote, and vice versa. If either Tory of Reform collect all the right leaning votes, they win. If they split with, say low 20s % points each, they don't. For Labour to win, they need to do better, and they need the Tories to do better too. He will never say so, but read between the lines of today's speech. No real attack on the Tories.
I suspect for once Starmer is right, and a very, very indignant Farage took the bait. Having said that his angry broadcast was highly polished.
I see the only way it goes wrong for Starmer is if Antifa assassinate a Reform politician. Maybe even a Reform politician who has fallen out bigly with Nigel. Should that happen both Starmer and Labour are finished.
Linking Kirk's assassination to Starmer was quite a clever leap, if a little unhinged.
And that's pretty unlikely in the UK, because there are way fewer guns in general, and infinitely fewer guns in the hands of maladjusted nutters.
I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.
Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?
Asking for a friend.
Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.
If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile. If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
Imgur access in the United Kingdom From September 30, 2025, access to Imgur from the United Kingdom is no longer available. UK users will not be able to log in, view content, or upload images. Imgur content embedded on third-party sites will not display for UK users.
OSA
first blood to OSA
The unintended consequences slowly take effect - not that I will notice from "Ireland"...
Teaching an entire generation of teens about Tor and VPNs is going to have exactly zero downsides.
What it's going to do is move using a VPN from being something for adult purposes to something required to just ensure a site still makes sense.
There are a number of forums I visit where Imgur is part of the entertainment, it's probably going to result in me needing to install a VPN for my wife as well as just my personal use...
Replace your current router with a Unifi one. Setup a VPN client connection from your router to a reliable VPN provider (like Proton). Setup traffic rules on the router to ensure that communication with imgur is over the VPN.
Or use Opera as your browser. Built in VPN. No faffing around.
As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game. If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen). Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley) The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.
If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not
The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
You can get a hint of her approach when she described Starmer v Farage as '2 boys squabbling in the playground'
Also labour need a conservative recovery otherwise it will be Farage in no 10
I heard that. I didn't think patronising was the way to go for her particularly as her reputation is veering towards 'the head prefect' She absolutely needs a lighter touch. More Mrs May less Ann Widdicombe
Not a very good day for Starmer, but a fantastic one for Farage.
The usual PB Tory wishcasters seem to believe it was a good day for them too. Unless they concede and join Reform, I am not sure how.
The jury is out on all of that
Let's see where the polls settle post the conservative conference
I hope Badenoch rises above all the name calling, and lays out her policies on the cost of living, immigration, NHS, education, welfare, taxes, and support for businesses who generate the growth everyone wants
If she is wise she needs to be 'the grown up' and avoid name calling because these are the issues the public want answers to, not anything else
The Cons big structural problem is they've lost their USP as safe with the economy.
At some point they need to give up any thought of winning 2029 and start planning to be largest party in 2033/4. Which means in 2029 they probably need 22 to 26%. Playing the economy card obviously wint get them back to pre Truss levels but time and despair with Labour makes that range achievable. Big Sam Survival for 2029, go for Europe 2034
It's a brave thing to do. Accepting that your role is more John the Baptist than Jesus.
I'm pretty sure Michael Howard recognised it. Did Neil (that speech was 40 years ago) Kinnock? It's possibly what Starmer signed up for, until it all went so wrong...
Has Kemi reached that degree of acceptance? What about Bob? Or most current Conservative MPs?
This is very much the problem. I think they think they can win 250 seats and lead a minority government. Not happening. Exceeding 150 seats would be miraculous from here, exceeding 120 a pretty good result
In which case, they are probably dead.
One of the things that turned 2024 from a disaster into a rout was where the Conservatives tried to draw the defensive line- for a long time, it was around seat 330, wasn't it? (Did that change during the short campaign?)
Starting to pick up some concern from Labour MPs, particularly Red Wall MPs, that the attacks on Farage may have gone over the top. Worried the distinction between attacking Reform and attacking their voters is going to be lost. David Lammy coming in for serious criticism."
That's the single most predictable statement one might expect from Hodges. Of course he might be guessing right, but I doubt anyone has volunteered their opinion to him.
It has to be done, and if it were me I would beat Farage over the head with convicted Russian shill Nathan Gill. Perhaps ease off on the racist narrative and double down on the admirer of Putin, enemy of Ukraine story.
"Britons split on whether they would prefer Labour or Reform UK to win the next election
If given a choice between the Labour party led by Keir Starmer and Reform UK led by Nigel Farage, Britons are split on which party they would prefer to win the next General Election. 38% say the Labour party led by Keir Starmer, while 35% say Reform UK led by Nigel Farage."
And it can only get worse for Farage. And as insurance Every Party with the possible exception of the Tories would vote tactically to keep the racists out. SKS nailed it today. I sense he's employed some decent research at last. Labour were crying out for a leader who would call out the racists and fascists for what they are and finally he did it. NB notice the biggest cheer of the day was for GAZA and for once Starmer didn't flinch from the applause
I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.
Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?
Asking for a friend.
Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
TBF to Blair and our very own Foreign Secretary they have been very keen to apportion the blame, I mean ladle the credit over Trump.
He was busy rambling, so clearly had not a clue what any of the twenty points were, let alone who Blair was.
My take on this is it's a mixture of wasting everybody's time and enabling Netanyahu to carry on the war. Similar to Trump's Ukraine efforts if we substitute Putin for Netanyahu.
If I were Farage right now I’d be organising some softer focus photo ops. Talking to elderly spinsters and market town shopkeepers and the like, rather than doing his snazzy policy launch events for a while. That would be the smart way to neutralise the “he doesn’t like Britain” stuff, but that doesn’t give him the same attention and focus so it’ll be bad for his ego.
On the racism stuff, Starmer chose his words very carefully. He did not throw the racism allegation at Reform, Farage, or Reform voters. It was aimed at one specific Reform policy - namely the threat to retrospectively deport some people who have already been granted ILR or settled status or whatever you want to call it. He explicitly said that it is not racist to want to control our borders, or to deport those who are here illegally or have committed serious crimes.
Farage, in the video I've seen, is deliberately misrepresenting what Starmer said. No surprise, though.
If he said it and didn’t factor in the risk of being misrepresented on that point, he’s a fool.
I'm sure he did factor that in, and went ahead anyway. Did you listen to the speech? The 'racism' point was contextualised well, referring to the potential threat to long-term immigrants who are our family, friends, colleagues, NHS workers and so on. It's a fair point, and he made it well.
I understand the argument. And I understand what he is saying. I think the Reform policy on ILR is the biggest gap in their armour that they’ve exposed so far, so Labour are right to attack it. My point is that going in with the “r” word is high risk strategy from Labour. Used sparingly and effectively it might work. The danger is that for all the caveats, it is easy for opponents to represent it as a “Labour are calling everyone who disagrees with them racist”. That is the risk in an age of instant news and social media.
It is also much riskier advancing that argument against a party with 28-33% support in the polls, rather than 2-5%.
I agree it's a risky strategy, and I agree that Starmer's words will be misquoted and distorted. But what he is trying to do is address not the 30-40% who may or will vote Reform but the 60% or so who won't. in the end both Labour and sanity need a lot of people to vote tactically. In a lot of cases that's Labour. He can't say that but that is the effective implication of morally isolating Reform.
The real problem is with the Tories. Do they join with Lab, LD etc in isolating Reform or not. Probably not.
Electorally, looking at 2029 I suspect Labour's real tactic is twofold. One, identify and mobilise the 60% who won't vote Reform. Two, ensure that the Tory vote impinges on the Reform vote, and vice versa. If either Tory of Reform collect all the right leaning votes, they win. If they split with, say low 20s % points each, they don't. For Labour to win, they need to do better, and they need the Tories to do better too. He will never say so, but read between the lines of today's speech. No real attack on the Tories.
I suspect for once Starmer is right, and a very, very indignant Farage took the bait. Having said that his angry broadcast was highly polished.
I see the only way it goes wrong for Starmer is if Antifa assassinate a Reform politician. Maybe even a Reform politician who has fallen out bigly with Nigel. Should that happen both Starmer and Labour are finished.
Linking Kirk's assassination to Starmer was quite a clever leap, if a little unhinged.
And that's pretty unlikely in the UK, because there are way fewer guns in general, and infinitely fewer guns in the hands of maladjusted nutters.
Aren't they standard service issue at say USAF Lakenheath?
Not a very good day for Starmer, but a fantastic one for Farage.
The usual PB Tory wishcasters seem to believe it was a good day for them too. Unless they concede and join Reform, I am not sure how.
The jury is out on all of that
Let's see where the polls settle post the conservative conference
I hope Badenoch rises above all the name calling, and lays out her policies on the cost of living, immigration, NHS, education, welfare, taxes, and support for businesses who generate the growth everyone wants
If she is wise she needs to be 'the grown up' and avoid name calling because these are the issues the public want answers to, not anything else
The Cons big structural problem is they've lost their USP as safe with the economy.
At some point they need to give up any thought of winning 2029 and start planning to be largest party in 2033/4. Which means in 2029 they probably need 22 to 26%. Playing the economy card obviously wint get them back to pre Truss levels but time and despair with Labour makes that range achievable. Big Sam Survival for 2029, go for Europe 2034
It's a brave thing to do. Accepting that your role is more John the Baptist than Jesus.
I'm pretty sure Michael Howard recognised it. Did Neil (that speech was 40 years ago) Kinnock? It's possibly what Starmer signed up for, until it all went so wrong...
Has Kemi reached that degree of acceptance? What about Bob? Or most current Conservative MPs?
This is very much the problem. I think they think they can win 250 seats and lead a minority government. Not happening. Exceeding 150 seats would be miraculous from here, exceeding 120 a pretty good result
In which case, they are probably dead.
One of the things that turned 2024 from a disaster into a rout was where the Conservatives tried to draw the defensive line- for a long time, it was around seat 330, wasn't it? (Did that change during the short campaign?)
They went from defending seat 330 to Sunak rocking up in Torridge and Tavistock. There was no proper strategy and the universality of proportionate decline caught them on the hop. The vote did not hold up at all, anywhere. I think this time a few traditional areas of strength might come back a bit - especially rural seats but only enough to kee0 them on the board as it were but some areas where years of work had paid off will utterly disintegrate to deposit losing levels
"Britons split on whether they would prefer Labour or Reform UK to win the next election
If given a choice between the Labour party led by Keir Starmer and Reform UK led by Nigel Farage, Britons are split on which party they would prefer to win the next General Election. 38% say the Labour party led by Keir Starmer, while 35% say Reform UK led by Nigel Farage."
And it can only get worse for Farage. And as insurance Every Party with the possible exception of the Tories would vote tactically to keep the racists out. SKS nailed it today. I sense he's employed some decent research at last. Labour were crying out for a leader who would call out the racists and fascists for what they are and finally he did it. NB notice the biggest cheer of the day was for GAZA and for once Starmer didn't flinch from the applause
The jeopardy for Starmer is not over yet. Starmer plays Ned Beatty to Nick Ferrari 's Deliverance redneck tomorrow morning on LBC. That could go horribly wrong.
Not a very good day for Starmer, but a fantastic one for Farage.
The usual PB Tory wishcasters seem to believe it was a good day for them too. Unless they concede and join Reform, I am not sure how.
The jury is out on all of that
Let's see where the polls settle post the conservative conference
I hope Badenoch rises above all the name calling, and lays out her policies on the cost of living, immigration, NHS, education, welfare, taxes, and support for businesses who generate the growth everyone wants
If she is wise she needs to be 'the grown up' and avoid name calling because these are the issues the public want answers to, not anything else
The Cons big structural problem is they've lost their USP as safe with the economy.
At some point they need to give up any thought of winning 2029 and start planning to be largest party in 2033/4. Which means in 2029 they probably need 22 to 26%. Playing the economy card obviously wint get them back to pre Truss levels but time and despair with Labour makes that range achievable. Big Sam Survival for 2029, go for Europe 2034
It's a brave thing to do. Accepting that your role is more John the Baptist than Jesus.
I'm pretty sure Michael Howard recognised it. Did Neil (that speech was 40 years ago) Kinnock? It's possibly what Starmer signed up for, until it all went so wrong...
Has Kemi reached that degree of acceptance? What about Bob? Or most current Conservative MPs?
This is very much the problem. I think they think they can win 250 seats and lead a minority government. Not happening. Exceeding 150 seats would be miraculous from here, exceeding 120 a pretty good result
I suspect you have read the current Tory leadership like a thrift shop book. They haven't come to terms with their current seat tally and in their minds eye it is double the reality. Kemi was careful to confirm Nigel is no racist earlier. Farage is not her friend.
Unless they all plan to join Farage I believe that leaving Farage to do the Devil's work could be an error.
My slightly bonkers but sometimes very insightful brother reckons Trump was telling the generals America is gonna withdraw from NATO
🤷🏼♂️
I'm not 100% convinced Trump is intending anything these days. It's the people around him.
Yes, I think it's underappreciated how much he's driven by caprice and narcissism. He wants attention, acclaim, deference, money and power. For himself. That's pretty much it imo.
My slightly bonkers but sometimes very insightful brother reckons Trump was telling the generals America is gonna withdraw from NATO
🤷🏼♂️
I'm not 100% convinced Trump is intending anything these days. It's the people around him.
Yes, I think it's underappreciated how much he's driven by caprice and narcissism. He wants attention, acclaim, deference, money and power. For himself. That's pretty much it imo.
Imgur access in the United Kingdom From September 30, 2025, access to Imgur from the United Kingdom is no longer available. UK users will not be able to log in, view content, or upload images. Imgur content embedded on third-party sites will not display for UK users.
OSA
first blood to OSA
The unintended consequences slowly take effect - not that I will notice from "Ireland"...
Teaching an entire generation of teens about Tor and VPNs is going to have exactly zero downsides.
What it's going to do is move using a VPN from being something for adult purposes to something required to just ensure a site still makes sense.
There are a number of forums I visit where Imgur is part of the entertainment, it's probably going to result in me needing to install a VPN for my wife as well as just my personal use...
Replace your current router with a Unifi one. Setup a VPN client connection from your router to a reliable VPN provider (like Proton). Setup traffic rules on the router to ensure that communication with imgur is over the VPN.
Or use Opera as your browser. Built in VPN. No faffing around.
You know Opera is controlled by the CCP, right?
"In 2021, Kunlun, a Chinese public company and our largest investor, increased its ownership stake in us beyond 50%, and as a result we became a consolidated subsidiary of Kunlun … as a subsidiary of Kunlun, we are additionally subject to certain of the listing rules of the Shenzhen Stock Exchange and Chinese corporate governance standards."
Not a very good day for Starmer, but a fantastic one for Farage.
The usual PB Tory wishcasters seem to believe it was a good day for them too. Unless they concede and join Reform, I am not sure how.
The jury is out on all of that
Let's see where the polls settle post the conservative conference
I hope Badenoch rises above all the name calling, and lays out her policies on the cost of living, immigration, NHS, education, welfare, taxes, and support for businesses who generate the growth everyone wants
If she is wise she needs to be 'the grown up' and avoid name calling because these are the issues the public want answers to, not anything else
The Cons big structural problem is they've lost their USP as safe with the economy.
At some point they need to give up any thought of winning 2029 and start planning to be largest party in 2033/4. Which means in 2029 they probably need 22 to 26%. Playing the economy card obviously wint get them back to pre Truss levels but time and despair with Labour makes that range achievable. Big Sam Survival for 2029, go for Europe 2034
It's a brave thing to do. Accepting that your role is more John the Baptist than Jesus.
I'm pretty sure Michael Howard recognised it. Did Neil (that speech was 40 years ago) Kinnock? It's possibly what Starmer signed up for, until it all went so wrong...
Has Kemi reached that degree of acceptance? What about Bob? Or most current Conservative MPs?
This is very much the problem. I think they think they can win 250 seats and lead a minority government. Not happening. Exceeding 150 seats would be miraculous from here, exceeding 120 a pretty good result
I suspect you have read the current Tory leadership like a thrift shop book. They haven't come to terms with their current seat tally and in their minds eye it is double the reality. Kemi was careful to confirm Nigel is no racist earlier. Farage is not her friend.
Unless they all plan to join Farage I believe that leaving Farage to do the Devil's work could be an error.
Long hard slog to get back up the hill they fell down. Bout time they start back up and not pretending theres a wonderful view from their lofty perch. I fear they cant be bothered because they 'shouldnt have to'. If that is so, they deserve whats coming
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spiv with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
Not a very good day for Starmer, but a fantastic one for Farage.
The usual PB Tory wishcasters seem to believe it was a good day for them too. Unless they concede and join Reform, I am not sure how.
The jury is out on all of that
Let's see where the polls settle post the conservative conference
I hope Badenoch rises above all the name calling, and lays out her policies on the cost of living, immigration, NHS, education, welfare, taxes, and support for businesses who generate the growth everyone wants
If she is wise she needs to be 'the grown up' and avoid name calling because these are the issues the public want answers to, not anything else
The Cons big structural problem is they've lost their USP as safe with the economy.
At some point they need to give up any thought of winning 2029 and start planning to be largest party in 2033/4. Which means in 2029 they probably need 22 to 26%. Playing the economy card obviously wint get them back to pre Truss levels but time and despair with Labour makes that range achievable. Big Sam Survival for 2029, go for Europe 2034
It's a brave thing to do. Accepting that your role is more John the Baptist than Jesus.
I'm pretty sure Michael Howard recognised it. Did Neil (that speech was 40 years ago) Kinnock? It's possibly what Starmer signed up for, until it all went so wrong...
Has Kemi reached that degree of acceptance? What about Bob? Or most current Conservative MPs?
This is very much the problem. I think they think they can win 250 seats and lead a minority government. Not happening. Exceeding 150 seats would be miraculous from here, exceeding 120 a pretty good result
I suspect you have read the current Tory leadership like a thrift shop book. They haven't come to terms with their current seat tally and in their minds eye it is double the reality. Kemi was careful to confirm Nigel is no racist earlier. Farage is not her friend.
Unless they all plan to join Farage I believe that leaving Farage to do the Devil's work could be an error.
Long hard slog to get back up the hill they fell down. Bout time they start back up and not pretending theres a wonderful view from their lofty perch. I fear they cant be bothered because they 'shouldnt have to'. If that is so, they deserve whats coming
The easy option would be to just jump on board with Farage. No effort and no soiled "Conservative" name.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
Time will tell but my feeling is it strengthens Reforms voters resolve as many will feel 'accused by association' Id have gone hard on Reform being novices, retreads, rejects with an empty policy cabinet
Stsrmers speech was certainly not for me but i imagine it has fired up his base a bit. Im not at all sure of the wider appeal
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spin with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
Not enough people will know who Toad of Toad Hall is.
It’s much worse than they’re letting on, Ukranian “kinetic sanctions” are working, and the russian economy is going to be totally screwed if they have to import fuel for the winter, if they even find anyone to sell it to them.
The queues for petrol are already damn close to Moscow, and RT propogandists were talking this morning about the benefits of battlefield cavalry, because they’re out of proper vehicles.
What is it they say about things happening slowly, then happening quickly?
No - I expect that Russia will continue to wage war in ever more broken back fashion
It’s existential for the Russian leadership. If they are not seen to win on the terms of their own irredentist nationalism - obliterating the independence of Ukraine - they will be out the window. Not just Putin, but the whole apparatus around him.
The Russian government under Putin has enough grasp on power to maintain power. And, further, they understand that they will either hang together or hang separately.
So it will stagger on.
Oh it will stagger on, that’s for sure, but horses vs HIMARS doesn’t seem like a particularly fair fight to me.
Half a dozen well-placed Tomahawks on the Kerch Bridge and they’re left fighting with whose army?
It seems fairly clear the West (except Poland, the U.K. and the Baltics) will reduce support for Ukraine to prevent a repeat of the successful offensive.
Why? The West would benefit - particularly in terms of much cheaper energy - from the collapse of the Putin regime. Indeed, a long drawn our war, where Russian energy exports head towards zero is an absolute disaster for the energy importing countries of Europe.
There remains a school of thought that the collapse of Putin’s regime might fragment the Russian Federation. And while superficially this might seem amusing to the likes of us, it scares security analysts rigid. Half a dozen breakaway statelets with their own nuclear arsenals.
This fear has driven western policy in this war since autumn 2022, when the Russian army was allowed to retreat from the right bank of the river in Kherson.
I feel the opposite to Malms and Leon’s brother however. I think the US is readying to reaffirm its commitment to NATO’s red lines and will if given the opportunity take kinetic action vs Russia to underline the point.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spin with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
Not enough people will know who Toad of Toad Hall is.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spin with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
Not enough people will know who Toad of Toad Hall is.
I think they would. The Wind in the Willows remains popular in school reading lists.
Not a very good day for Starmer, but a fantastic one for Farage.
The usual PB Tory wishcasters seem to believe it was a good day for them too. Unless they concede and join Reform, I am not sure how.
The jury is out on all of that
Let's see where the polls settle post the conservative conference
I hope Badenoch rises above all the name calling, and lays out her policies on the cost of living, immigration, NHS, education, welfare, taxes, and support for businesses who generate the growth everyone wants
If she is wise she needs to be 'the grown up' and avoid name calling because these are the issues the public want answers to, not anything else
The Cons big structural problem is they've lost their USP as safe with the economy.
At some point they need to give up any thought of winning 2029 and start planning to be largest party in 2033/4. Which means in 2029 they probably need 22 to 26%. Playing the economy card obviously wint get them back to pre Truss levels but time and despair with Labour makes that range achievable. Big Sam Survival for 2029, go for Europe 2034
It's a brave thing to do. Accepting that your role is more John the Baptist than Jesus.
I'm pretty sure Michael Howard recognised it. Did Neil (that speech was 40 years ago) Kinnock? It's possibly what Starmer signed up for, until it all went so wrong...
Has Kemi reached that degree of acceptance? What about Bob? Or most current Conservative MPs?
This is very much the problem. I think they think they can win 250 seats and lead a minority government. Not happening. Exceeding 150 seats would be miraculous from here, exceeding 120 a pretty good result
I suspect you have read the current Tory leadership like a thrift shop book. They haven't come to terms with their current seat tally and in their minds eye it is double the reality. Kemi was careful to confirm Nigel is no racist earlier. Farage is not her friend.
Unless they all plan to join Farage I believe that leaving Farage to do the Devil's work could be an error.
Long hard slog to get back up the hill they fell down. Bout time they start back up and not pretending theres a wonderful view from their lofty perch. I fear they cant be bothered because they 'shouldnt have to'. If that is so, they deserve whats coming
The easy option would be to just jump on board with Farage. No effort and no soiled "Conservative" name.
Certainly the easy option the defectors have chosen. Id rather they take the hard road. Because it means something. I was a member 2005 to after the 2010 GE. Because i felt they finally wanted to earn it again and it was worth the fight. Ill probably back them next time if they look like they understand the work that needs to be done. If they take easy street they can fuck off
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spiv with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
A fair point. But can we still just call him a ****!
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spiv with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
A fair point. But can we still just call him a ****!
Does anyone under 50 know who the hell Toad of Toad Hall is?
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spiv with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
A fair point. But can we still just call him a ****!
Does anyone under 50 know who the hell Toad of Toad Hall is?
Even if that were true (which it isn't) Reform's voters are overwhelmingly over 50.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spin with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
Not enough people will know who Toad of Toad Hall is.
Mr Toad evokes national treasure David Jason.
Peter Sallis = Ratty Michael Hordern = Badger Richard Pearson = Mole
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
Time will tell but my feeling is it strengthens Reforms voters resolve as many will feel 'accused by association' Id have gone hard on Reform being novices, retreads, rejects with an empty policy cabinet
Stsrmers speech was certainly not for me but i imagine it has fired up his base a bit. Im not at all sure of the wider appeal
That doesn't really work while Starmer's Government are "novices, retreads, rejects with an empty policy cabinet ".
Perhaps it is best just stick to Farage apparently disliking people with a dark complexion and his Putin adjacency.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
You do not add to constructive debate by making sarcastic or weird comments that exaggerate or, no doubt, you think are clever
Badenoch comments were a sensible response when asked by the media and I did say Starmer has calmed his party and I agreed with his ending of the 50% going to University
This forum is a wonderful place to debate and make arguments but all you seem to want to do is express an extreme interpretation of the nuance of the arguments
That belies the argument that the current 70% who do not support Reform, will dutifully line up behind whichever candidate is best placed to defeat them.
City total chaos and mess almost everywhere. But safer than it was. But my god the litter and graffiti
Still my favourite Italian city. Top 10 worldwide
Whereas I'm in a bar on the Bay of Kotor, catching a bus to Bosnia (actually, Herzegovina which apparently I'm already in) tomorrow. It will be late, such are the Balkans, I will have a kuvana kava while I wait. I am paying for the trip myself
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spiv with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
A fair point. But can we still just call him a ****!
Does anyone under 50 know who the hell Toad of Toad Hall is?
Even if that were true (which it isn't) Reform's voters are overwhelmingly over 50.
It wouldn't surprise me if they do indeed think of Farage in those terms, and like him all the more for it parp parp
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spiv with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
The risk is that, at some level, Toad is a loveable rogue. Go too hard, and the nation could have another Dave the Chameleon on its hands.
Yes, the way to destroy Farage, like all proud sprites, is to mock him. But it needs to be subtle.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
You do not add to constructive debate by making sarcastic or weird comments that exaggerate or, no doubt, you think are clever
Badenoch comments were a sensible response when asked by the media and I did say Starmer has calmed his party and I agreed with his ending of the 50% going to University
This forum is a wonderful place to debate and make arguments but all you seem to want to do is express an extreme interpretation of the nuance of the arguments
I wholly disagree with a Labour Government restricting young people from attending University. That is non-meritocratic nonsense. That is disgusting.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spiv with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
A fair point. But can we still just call him a ****!
Does anyone under 50 know who the hell Toad of Toad Hall is?
Even if that were true (which it isn't) Reform's voters are overwhelmingly over 50.
Reforms vote is not skewed elderly like the Tory vote, they have pretty broad support in all age groups, especially 25+
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
Time will tell but my feeling is it strengthens Reforms voters resolve as many will feel 'accused by association' Id have gone hard on Reform being novices, retreads, rejects with an empty policy cabinet
Stsrmers speech was certainly not for me but i imagine it has fired up his base a bit. Im not at all sure of the wider appeal
That doesn't really work while Starmer's Government are "novices, retreads, rejects with an empty policy cabinet ".
Perhaps it is best just stick to Farage apparently disliking people with a dark complexion and his Putin adjacency.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spiv with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
A fair point. But can we still just call him a ****!
Does anyone under 50 know who the hell Toad of Toad Hall is?
Even if that were true (which it isn't) Reform's voters are overwhelmingly over 50.
Reforms vote is not skewed elderly like the Tory vote, they have pretty broad support in all age groups, especially 25+
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spin with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
Not enough people will know who Toad of Toad Hall is.
I think they would. The Wind in the Willows remains popular in school reading lists.
As it should both as a superbly evocative book, with hints of the Fortean (Pan), and a story of Old England.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
I cannot understand why every single Labour poster, broadcast, social media post isn't depicting Farage as Toad of Toad Hall.
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spin with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
Not enough people will know who Toad of Toad Hall is.
I think they would. The Wind in the Willows remains popular in school reading lists.
As it should both as a superbly evocative book, with hints of the Fortean (Pan), and a story of Old England.
It's best as an audiobook read by Kenneth Williams
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
You do not add to constructive debate by making sarcastic or weird comments that exaggerate or, no doubt, you think are clever
Badenoch comments were a sensible response when asked by the media and I did say Starmer has calmed his party and I agreed with his ending of the 50% going to University
This forum is a wonderful place to debate and make arguments but all you seem to want to do is express an extreme interpretation of the nuance of the arguments
I wholly disagree with a Labour Government restricting young people from attending University. That is non-meritocratic nonsense. That is disgusting.
No it is not
It was always an idiotic policy and good on Starmer for moving to a balanced University - FE colleges
We need far more practical people learning their trade and in many cases earning as well as apprenticeships
Since when did nurses and policemen require a degree
When I left Grammar School at 16 only about 5% went to University
Whilst I had 5 GCEs it did not prevent me developing 2 very successful businesses over my 49 years working, with lots of secure well paid jobs and a wonderful workforce many of whom are friends
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
Time will tell but my feeling is it strengthens Reforms voters resolve as many will feel 'accused by association' Id have gone hard on Reform being novices, retreads, rejects with an empty policy cabinet
Stsrmers speech was certainly not for me but i imagine it has fired up his base a bit. Im not at all sure of the wider appeal
That doesn't really work while Starmer's Government are "novices, retreads, rejects with an empty policy cabinet ".
Perhaps it is best just stick to Farage apparently disliking people with a dark complexion and his Putin adjacency.
Starmer can't diss the orange man as Ed Davey could with his 'don't let Trump's America become Farage's Britain'. That's a problem for this strategy. All the worst aspects of Reform are a copy of Maga. But Starmer can't let rip on that. Or feels he can't.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
Labour didn’t call Reform voters racist. Regardless today was about responding to hacked off Labour voters who think the party has been too reluctant to criticize Reform .
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
Starmer has been at pains not to paint Reform voters as racist. He's quite probably wrong about many of them. Farage has mischievously made the connection.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
Time will tell but my feeling is it strengthens Reforms voters resolve as many will feel 'accused by association' Id have gone hard on Reform being novices, retreads, rejects with an empty policy cabinet
Stsrmers speech was certainly not for me but i imagine it has fired up his base a bit. Im not at all sure of the wider appeal
That doesn't really work while Starmer's Government are "novices, retreads, rejects with an empty policy cabinet ".
Perhaps it is best just stick to Farage apparently disliking people with a dark complexion and his Putin adjacency.
Starmer can't diss the orange man as Ed Davey could with his 'don't let Trump's America become Farage's Britain'. That's a problem for this strategy. All the worst aspects of Reform are a copy of Maga. But Starmer can't let rip on that. Or feels he can't.
I can't help thinking that by 2029 Trump could well have soiled Reform (or whatever they will be called by then) into unelectability.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
Labour didn’t call Reform voters racist. Regardless today was about responding to hacked off Labour voters who think the party has been too reluctant to criticize Reform .
Parties that focus on making their core vote feel good about themselves don’t tend to be parties that hold onto power for long.
Fascinated by the Hegseth ‘office junior accidentally gets to be the boss for a day, gets carried away’ vibe of this speech www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025... where he’s apparently summoned a load of generals in the middle of escalating tension with Russia just to say they’re fatter than him?
Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.
Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter - https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3
Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.
Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
To be fair Labour are quite clear that they are trying to address those concerns.
The days of the Boriswave are gone (at least until Canada gets invaded). To get ILR migrants will need to stay 10 years rather than five, volunteer and be net tax payers. That is a fairly substantial change. Deportations are running significantly higher than under the Tories.
Voters aren't in the mood to listen, at least not yet, but Labour have moved substantially from the more permissive Conservative policies.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
Labour didn’t call Reform voters racist. Regardless today was about responding to hacked off Labour voters who think the party has been too reluctant to criticize Reform .
All voters will hear is "Labour calls someone racist" and they will not be in the least surprised, and the word will lose a bit more of what power it may once have had. Labour are never happier than when calling someone racist, and if no-one is immediately available they can have almost as much fun calling each other racist. It doesn't help win any arguments or votes, but it makes the racist-caller feel superior, and that, after all, is the point of the exercise.
That belies the argument that the current 70% who do not support Reform, will dutifully line up behind whichever candidate is best placed to defeat them.
They might have mistakenly added the RefCon figure together.
Although on a good day Reform could get 52 to everyone elses's 48.
Fascinated by the Hegseth ‘office junior accidentally gets to be the boss for a day, gets carried away’ vibe of this speech www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025... where he’s apparently summoned a load of generals in the middle of escalating tension with Russia just to say they’re fatter than him?
The most important meeting in the entire 6 or so months of this administration.
The largest collection of US generals in decades did not clap like circus seals on prozac as Hegseth and Trump did their faux hard green beret vaudeville act.
They remained silent.
The line has been drawn imho - its subtle but clear - and Trump would be very very stupid to push this further.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
To be fair Labour are quite clear that they are trying to address those concerns.
The days of the Boriswave are gone (at least until Canada gets invaded). To get ILR migrants will need to stay 10 years rather than five, volunteer and be net tax payers. That is a fairly substantial change. Deportations are running significantly higher than under the Tories.
Voters aren't in the mood to listen, at least not yet, but Labour have moved substantially from the more permissive Conservative policies.
A lot of voters, wrongly, think hundreds of thousands are arriving via small boats each year, and are fed up that nothing is done to stop it. Might not be accurate or logical, but that’s the truth as they see it.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
To be fair Labour are quite clear that they are trying to address those concerns.
The days of the Boriswave are gone (at least until Canada gets invaded). To get ILR migrants will need to stay 10 years rather than five, volunteer and be net tax payers. That is a fairly substantial change. Deportations are running significantly higher than under the Tories.
Voters aren't in the mood to listen, at least not yet, but Labour have moved substantially from the more permissive Conservative policies.
Well yes, but necessary but not nearly sufficient. The boats continue as voluminously and visibly as ever, with Labour doing nothing to dispel the impression that it values the rights of dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East over the rights of people from Essex, and indeed likes them rather more.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
To be fair Labour are quite clear that they are trying to address those concerns.
The days of the Boriswave are gone (at least until Canada gets invaded). To get ILR migrants will need to stay 10 years rather than five, volunteer and be net tax payers. That is a fairly substantial change. Deportations are running significantly higher than under the Tories.
Voters aren't in the mood to listen, at least not yet, but Labour have moved substantially from the more permissive Conservative policies.
A lot of voters, wrongly, think hundreds of thousands are arriving via small boats each year, and are fed up that nothing is done to stop it. Might not be accurate or logical, but that’s the truth as they see it.
Well sure, that is what the broligarchs pay to have them think. Not because they care either way, but because it is a way to shift power from nation states to themselves.
I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.
There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.
Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
Starmer has been at pains not to paint Reform voters as racist. He's quite probably wrong about many of them. Farage has mischievously made the connection.
Isn’t this like the Will Self line on leave voters? Not all leave supporters are racist but all racists are leave supporters. Or something like that. I am pretty sure similar applies for Reform’s support (albeit I daresay there will be a few racists who think Reform isn’t right wing enough).
However, working out that pithy categorisation gets you nowhere. You still need to work out how you are going to claw back the (ideally non-racist) supporters you’ve lost to Reform. Personally, I think there is a bit of problem in politics at the moment about the simple solutionists. The populist right is chock full of people that think there is a simple solution to all the many problems in the UK and beyond (and to be honest it is not just the populist right that lean to this). There isn’t. But if your message is “actually it’s a little bit more complicated than that” then you’ve already lost them.
The only thing that serious politicians can do is deliver (and if in opposition then look competent and trustworthy). I think Labour in opposition did look a plausible government. What they have proven so far is that appearances can be deceiving. However, it is early days, and at the back of my mind I assume Farage / Reform will at some point explode (or be tainted by association) - surely he can’t keep this up with all the attention until 2028/29?
It’s much worse than they’re letting on, Ukranian “kinetic sanctions” are working, and the russian economy is going to be totally screwed if they have to import fuel for the winter, if they even find anyone to sell it to them.
The queues for petrol are already damn close to Moscow, and RT propogandists were talking this morning about the benefits of battlefield cavalry, because they’re out of proper vehicles.
What is it they say about things happening slowly, then happening quickly?
No - I expect that Russia will continue to wage war in ever more broken back fashion
It’s existential for the Russian leadership. If they are not seen to win on the terms of their own irredentist nationalism - obliterating the independence of Ukraine - they will be out the window. Not just Putin, but the whole apparatus around him.
The Russian government under Putin has enough grasp on power to maintain power. And, further, they understand that they will either hang together or hang separately.
So it will stagger on.
I strongly disagree that the war is existential for Putin and his cabal. I don't see any evidence of an alternative locus of power, I think he's eliminated anyone with the capacity for independent thought.
Saddam was able to hang on in Iraq following defeat in Kuwait and I expect Putin to do the same after losing his war with Ukraine. When Russia does lose I expect the end will come when Putin decides that he needs to withdraw what remains of the Russian army to help preserve his rule.
Saddam only hung on with a mini civil war and butchering his opponents on a grand scale. He neatly lost.
Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.
Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter - https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3
Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.
Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
Interestingly, Herceg Novi, where I am staying, was briefly Spanish. Also Bosnian, Ottoman, Venetian, French, briefly again Russian, and then Austrian.
I haven't travelled over the summer - to be honest most months I have found an excuse to go away in the UK - I thought I had lost my mojo but seem to be getting it back.
Hoping you do get to travel soon. I do like Ottoman Southern Europe and wonder what Naples would be like if Piri Reis or Hayrettin Barbarossa had ever conquered it.
Housing is what the government should be concentrating on -
- building more - Building a variety of high quality homes - sorting out the post-Grenfell mess - Training proper construction tradesmen and craftsmen - Improving standards in existing homes - Sorting out leasehold issues & the rental market
Not faffing around calling Reform voters names.
Peter Apps who has written extensively about Grenfell and the housing market could give them a few ideas.
They should just get on with their fucking job rather than making adenoidal speeches written by half-witted interns and AI which sound like the sort of rubbish you see printed on overpriced mugs.
Fascinated by the Hegseth ‘office junior accidentally gets to be the boss for a day, gets carried away’ vibe of this speech www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025... where he’s apparently summoned a load of generals in the middle of escalating tension with Russia just to say they’re fatter than him?
Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.
Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter - https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3
Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.
Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
Best wishes.
Italian unification was in reality, a conquest of The Two Sicilies, whose people had to be put down very brutally, by the House of Savoy.
Fascinated by the Hegseth ‘office junior accidentally gets to be the boss for a day, gets carried away’ vibe of this speech www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025... where he’s apparently summoned a load of generals in the middle of escalating tension with Russia just to say they’re fatter than him?
Comments
"I wanna go to Lakesiiide"
It's the people around him.
If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
Not the right way to go about things
https://bsky.app/profile/mortenmorland.bsky.social/post/3m23ad4lbts25
One of the things that turned 2024 from a disaster into a rout was where the Conservatives tried to draw the defensive line- for a long time, it was around seat 330, wasn't it? (Did that change during the short campaign?)
It has to be done, and if it were me I would beat Farage over the head with convicted Russian shill Nathan Gill. Perhaps ease off on the racist narrative and double down on the admirer of Putin, enemy of Ukraine story.
I think this time a few traditional areas of strength might come back a bit - especially rural seats but only enough to kee0 them on the board as it were but some areas where years of work had paid off will utterly disintegrate to deposit losing levels
Pizza still the best in the world
Coffee probably ditto
City total chaos and mess almost everywhere. But safer than it was. But my god the litter and graffiti
Still my favourite Italian city. Top 10 worldwide
Doomscrolling.
https://www.espresso-international.co.uk/passalacqua-espresso-harem-250g-moka-ground-coffee
Unless they all plan to join Farage I believe that leaving Farage to do the Devil's work could be an error.
February 7
"Brian Stelter posted a December 9, 2017, quote from the New York Times:
"Before taking office, Mr. Trump told top aides to think of each presidential day as an episode in a television show in which he vanquishes rivals."
Stelter wrote: “I think about this quote a lot.” "
Heather Richardson email - 'Letters from an American'
"In 2021, Kunlun, a Chinese public company and our largest investor, increased its ownership stake in us beyond 50%, and as a result we became a consolidated subsidiary of Kunlun … as a subsidiary of Kunlun, we are additionally subject to certain of the listing rules of the Shenzhen Stock Exchange and Chinese corporate governance standards."
I fear they cant be bothered because they 'shouldnt have to'. If that is so, they deserve whats coming
Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).
I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
The character's an exact match. The arrogant spiv with too much money, too little intellect, an obsession with every passing fad and too little sense.
And he looks like one too.
Id have gone hard on Reform being novices, retreads, rejects with an empty policy cabinet
Stsrmers speech was certainly not for me but i imagine it has fired up his base a bit. Im not at all sure of the wider appeal
This fear has driven western policy in this war since autumn 2022, when the Russian army was allowed to retreat from the right bank of the river in Kherson.
I feel the opposite to Malms and Leon’s brother however. I think the US is readying to reaffirm its commitment to NATO’s red lines and will if given the opportunity take kinetic action vs Russia to underline the point.
Spencer Hakimian
@SpencerHakimian
Trump’s 2nd term approval rating has hit a new all time low today:
https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1973114994394038619
Id rather they take the hard road. Because it means something.
I was a member 2005 to after the 2010 GE. Because i felt they finally wanted to earn it again and it was worth the fight.
Ill probably back them next time if they look like they understand the work that needs to be done.
If they take easy street they can fuck off
Michael Hordern = Badger
Richard Pearson = Mole
Perhaps it is best just stick to Farage apparently disliking people with a dark complexion and his Putin adjacency.
Badenoch comments were a sensible response when asked by the media and I did say Starmer has calmed his party and I agreed with his ending of the 50% going to University
This forum is a wonderful place to debate and make arguments but all you seem to want to do is express an extreme interpretation of the nuance of the arguments
That belies the argument that the current 70% who do not support Reform, will dutifully line up behind whichever candidate is best placed to defeat them.
parp parp
Yes, the way to destroy Farage, like all proud sprites, is to mock him. But it needs to be subtle.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/celebrity/articles/alex-jones-makes-bold-dubious-211348038.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAILn-MAyHfyN96DmOr5h1VkgOk85uDccR8mV5qf6vF21zGJ7pMV4mPw2LcC4l65ieffiKU_ynkRs1pOlYjVfAt3niT_hiZGbkJKtXjlvrCjA9qvBSHZsPlEgX8M2ODp57ad-nLa9UmkvoLIpb6BaMRhMGyucpKjAyfgpclCjZgGp
If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
It was always an idiotic policy and good on Starmer for moving to a balanced University - FE colleges
We need far more practical people learning their trade and in many cases earning as well as apprenticeships
Since when did nurses and policemen require a degree
When I left Grammar School at 16 only about 5% went to University
Whilst I had 5 GCEs it did not prevent me developing 2 very successful businesses over my 49 years working, with lots of secure well paid jobs and a wonderful workforce many of whom are friends
No, I mentioned Professor Alice upthread!
@BillKristol
Trump desperately begging for applause. Military officers maintaining discipline
https://x.com/BillKristol
Well I live in hope.
Fascinated by the Hegseth ‘office junior accidentally gets to be the boss for a day, gets carried away’ vibe of this speech www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025... where he’s apparently summoned a load of generals in the middle of escalating tension with Russia just to say they’re fatter than him?
https://bsky.app/profile/gabyhinsliff.bsky.social/post/3m23emppfkk2y
Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.
Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter -
https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3
Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.
Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
The days of the Boriswave are gone (at least until Canada gets invaded). To get ILR migrants will need to stay 10 years rather than five, volunteer and be net tax payers. That is a fairly substantial change. Deportations are running significantly higher than under the Tories.
Voters aren't in the mood to listen, at least not yet, but Labour have moved substantially from the more permissive Conservative policies.
It doesn't help win any arguments or votes, but it makes the racist-caller feel superior, and that, after all, is the point of the exercise.
Although on a good day Reform could get 52 to everyone elses's 48.
The largest collection of US generals in decades did not clap like circus seals on prozac as Hegseth and Trump did their faux hard green beret vaudeville act.
They remained silent.
The line has been drawn imho - its subtle but clear - and Trump would be very very stupid to push this further.
However, working out that pithy categorisation gets you nowhere. You still need to work out how you are going to claw back the (ideally non-racist) supporters you’ve lost to Reform. Personally, I think there is a bit of problem in politics at the moment about the simple solutionists. The populist right is chock full of people that think there is a simple solution to all the many problems in the UK and beyond (and to be honest it is not just the populist right that lean to this). There isn’t. But if your message is “actually it’s a little bit more complicated than that” then you’ve already lost them.
The only thing that serious politicians can do is deliver (and if in opposition then look competent and trustworthy). I think Labour in opposition did look a plausible government. What they have proven so far is that appearances can be deceiving. However, it is early days, and at the back of my mind I assume Farage / Reform will at some point explode (or be tainted by association) - surely he can’t keep this up with all the attention until 2028/29?
A LFC late penalty overturned.
Sign of the Apocalypse?
Doesn’t sound like a plan to play for.
I haven't travelled over the summer - to be honest most months I have found an excuse to go away in the UK - I thought I had lost my mojo but seem to be getting it back.
Hoping you do get to travel soon. I do like Ottoman Southern Europe and wonder what Naples would be like if Piri Reis or Hayrettin Barbarossa had ever conquered it.
- building more
- Building a variety of high quality homes
- sorting out the post-Grenfell mess
- Training proper construction tradesmen and craftsmen
- Improving standards in existing homes
- Sorting out leasehold issues & the rental market
Not faffing around calling Reform voters names.
Peter Apps who has written extensively about Grenfell and the housing market could give them a few ideas.
They should just get on with their fucking job rather than making adenoidal speeches written by half-witted interns and AI which sound like the sort of rubbish you see printed on overpriced mugs.
Italian unification was in reality, a conquest of The Two Sicilies, whose people had to be put down very brutally, by the House of Savoy.