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The betting markets are so far unmoved by Starmer’s speech – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,709
edited September 30 in General
The betting markets are so far unmoved by Starmer’s speech – politicalbetting.com

I’ve not been able to watch Starmer’s speech due to work commitments so cannot comment upon it yet, a colleague observed earlier on they would expect Starmer to remind the country that he’s a lawyer.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,200
    ...and, of course, a toolmaker's son.
  • Off Topic, but PSA (as I don't think this got much coverage) when the headlines about the 20 euros (rather than 7 euros) was announced...

    How much does the ETIAS application cost?

    When applying using this official ETIAS website, you will be charged a fee of EUR 20. Applicants who are under 18 or over 70 years of age are exempt from this payment. Also exempt are family members of EU citizens and family members of non-EU nationals who have the right to move freely throughout the European Union.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,583
    edited September 30
    Second? Speech was OK though toe curling. At least an attempt to say that the glass is half full and getting fuller rather than it's empty and we haven't any thoughts much.

    No 4th.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    edited September 30
    "Nigel Farage: Labour rhetoric incites violence against Reform

    The party leader will claim today that Keir Starmer’s labelling of his migrant plan as ‘racist’ has endangered the safety of his candidates and activists" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d1f74fcb-7c9d-4fbe-b553-d55858c3fae0
  • I would just say that the media concentrated a lot on Rachel Reeves during Starmer's speech and frankly she looked like she was about to burst out into tears

    She certainly looks extremely worried, and no doubt November is bearing down on her and as Sam Coates said the 30 billion shortfall is all of Labour's making, especially as she said her last 40 billion tax raid wiped the slate clean

    And that is 70 billion tax rises in less than 18 months

    Frightening
  • Welease the wurst
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,773
    Cookie said:

    ...and, of course, a toolmaker's son.

    The only one who could ever reach me was the son of a toolmaker man.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,052
    edited September 30
    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage: Labour rhetoric incites violence against Reform

    The party leader will claim today that Keir Starmer’s labelling of his migrant plan as ‘racist’ has endangered the safety of his candidates and activists" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d1f74fcb-7c9d-4fbe-b553-d55858c3fae0

    Here is the response,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEKKLpiALMo

    I have to say its quite clever of Reform that they have built a permanent studio so they are able to bypass media and just put out stuff on social media whenever they like.

    It does seem like the whole you shut up during other people's conferences has all gone out the window.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,164
    Sounds like it wasn’t a complete disaster, at least.

    Whether the Labour vs Reform tactic will work to tighten the polls, one speech will not change that. Only time and consistency of messaging will tell.

    Still. In a funny way I do feel somewhat pleased for SKS that it wasn’t terrible. Everyone deserves a good day in the office now and again.
  • Young people – backed.
    The class ceiling – smashed.

    That’s national renewal. That’s what I fight for every day.

    StaLLMer
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,655
    edited September 30
    Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage: Labour rhetoric incites violence against Reform

    The party leader will claim today that Keir Starmer’s labelling of his migrant plan as ‘racist’ has endangered the safety of his candidates and activists" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d1f74fcb-7c9d-4fbe-b553-d55858c3fae0

    I despise Farage but it was a very effective speech. Farage's speech is getting all the air time on LBC News. Nigel has shot Starmer's fox!

    The line that Starmer has invited Antifa to assassinate Reform politicians will get Mason's eye
  • Young people – backed.
    The class ceiling – smashed.

    That’s national renewal. That’s what I fight for every day.

    StaLLMer

    ChatGPT 5 isn't very good is it.....I have been using over the past few weeks and it does really like to pump out Starmer-isms.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,283
    I read the highlights of the speech on the Guardian live blog. I didn't discern much in the way of preparing the country for further tax rises in the budget.

    For those of us on here, hanging on every monthly update from the ONS, tax rises at the budget are not going to be a surprise, but I think that they're going to be an unpleasant surprise to a lot of people who aren't following so closely.

    I thought that the speech was confused and contradictory in places. On the one hand he said that Labour had to avoid falling into the trap of defending the status quo. Then he defended the status quo by arguing at length that Britain wasn't broken.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,765
    If Imgur's UK shutdown heralds a bunch of similar sites leaving the UK market then it's going to play out badly amongst a chunk of the junior end of the vote.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,052
    edited September 30
    Foss said:

    If Imgur's UK shutdown heralds a bunch of similar sites leaving the UK market then it's going to play out badly amongst a chunk of the junior end of the vote.

    TBH, I didn't even know Imgur was still a thing. Is Flickr still going as well?

    I am not sure what need they service these days where everybody has iCloud, Google Cloud, OneDrive etc, as well as all the social media apps.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,283
    Nigelb said:
    I guess we've found the one guy who will be impressed by the Russian use of cavalry on the battlefield of Ukraine.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,080
    edited September 30
    I listened to the Starmer speech and I'd give it maybe 7./10.

    Party political conferences are for tribal speeches, in addition to political, and Farage is the correct target for now. I don't think Starmer went for Farage anything like hard enough, and I hope he makes a suitably blunt response to whatever Farage says. He needs to define

    SKS is not a great orator, and it shows.

    Listening to Farage's response, he is upset at being called out for what he is.

    LOL I see that Nigel is wibbling on about Anfifa, just like Trump (Antifa? In the UK? Where?), and he's shocked, shocked I tell you.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,530
    A simpsons Movie sequel to be made:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2x4dp5xxvo
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,080
    MattW said:

    I listened to the Starmer speech and I'd give it maybe 7./10.

    Party political conferences are for tribal speeches, in addition to political, and Farage is the correct target for now. I don't think Starmer went for Farage anything like hard enough, and I hope he makes a suitably blunt response to whatever Farage says. He needs to define

    SKS is not a great orator, and it shows.

    Listening to Farage's response, he is upset at being called out for what he is.

    LOL I see that Nigel is wibbling on about Anfifa, just like Trump (Antifa? In the UK? Where?), and he's shocked, shocked I tell you.

    Soddit. "He needs to define who Farage is, rather than the other way around."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,665
    MattW said:

    I listened to the Starmer speech and I'd give it maybe 7./10.

    Party political conferences are for tribal speeches, in addition to political, and Farage is the correct target for now. I don't think Starmer went for Farage anything like hard enough, and I hope he makes a suitably blunt response to whatever Farage says. He needs to define

    SKS is not a great orator, and it shows.

    Listening to Farage's response, he is upset at being called out for what he is.

    LOL I see that Nigel is wibbling on about Anfifa, just like Trump (Antifa? In the UK? Where?), and he's shocked, shocked I tell you.

    Farage appears to have no ideas that didn't originate in the US, these days.

    Antifa, FFS.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,627
    edited September 30
    Find out Now dropped some back polling with Your Party included from early Sept (1st to 8th)
    Corbyns snail like idiocy has seen them collapse back to 6% from 15%

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1972964678960890290?s=19
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,740
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    I listened to the Starmer speech and I'd give it maybe 7./10.

    Party political conferences are for tribal speeches, in addition to political, and Farage is the correct target for now. I don't think Starmer went for Farage anything like hard enough, and I hope he makes a suitably blunt response to whatever Farage says. He needs to define

    SKS is not a great orator, and it shows.

    Listening to Farage's response, he is upset at being called out for what he is.

    LOL I see that Nigel is wibbling on about Anfifa, just like Trump (Antifa? In the UK? Where?), and he's shocked, shocked I tell you.

    Farage appears to have no ideas that didn't originate in the US, these days.

    Antifa, FFS.
    Keeps the money rolling in from the billionaire defenders of Free Speech.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Nigel Farage: Labour rhetoric incites violence against Reform

    The party leader will claim today that Keir Starmer’s labelling of his migrant plan as ‘racist’ has endangered the safety of his candidates and activists" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d1f74fcb-7c9d-4fbe-b553-d55858c3fae0

    Here is the response,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEKKLpiALMo

    I have to say its quite clever of Reform that they have built a permanent studio so they are able to bypass media and just put out stuff on social media whenever they like.

    It does seem like the whole you shut up during other people's conferences has all gone out the window.
    They'd have done better to cut the dead time from the start.


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,665

    Nigelb said:
    I guess we've found the one guy who will be impressed by the Russian use of cavalry on the battlefield of Ukraine.
    That was one of the more lucid bits.
    Whereas
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1973032556153950392
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193

    Off Topic, but PSA (as I don't think this got much coverage) when the headlines about the 20 euros (rather than 7 euros) was announced...

    How much does the ETIAS application cost?

    When applying using this official ETIAS website, you will be charged a fee of EUR 20. Applicants who are under 18 or over 70 years of age are exempt from this payment. Also exempt are family members of EU citizens and family members of non-EU nationals who have the right to move freely throughout the European Union.

    It’s rather amusing to see American Twitter going totally mad at this scheme from the EU, seemingly unaware that their own country has been doing exactly the same to visitors the other way for more than a decade!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,530
    Nigelb said:
    Drachinifel and the excellent Battleship New Jersey channel did a section on bringing back the Iowas:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAZxDJjWKFQ

    It's a stupid idea, especially with the Iowas. Although I would love to see one at sea again. You'd be much better of converting more of the Iowa submarines to be arsenal ships...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,052
    edited September 30
    Sandpit said:

    Off Topic, but PSA (as I don't think this got much coverage) when the headlines about the 20 euros (rather than 7 euros) was announced...

    How much does the ETIAS application cost?

    When applying using this official ETIAS website, you will be charged a fee of EUR 20. Applicants who are under 18 or over 70 years of age are exempt from this payment. Also exempt are family members of EU citizens and family members of non-EU nationals who have the right to move freely throughout the European Union.

    It’s rather amusing to see American Twitter going totally mad at this scheme from the EU, seemingly unaware that their own country has been doing exactly the same to visitors the other way for more than a decade!
    And it will double from $20 to $40 (I think from today).
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,109
    edited September 30
    A very disappointing thread header, TSE.
    I’ve not been able to watch Starmer’s speech due to work commitments so cannot comment upon it yet...
    is surely against the spirit of PB, where the reverse usually applies.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,294

    Nigelb said:
    I guess we've found the one guy who will be impressed by the Russian use of cavalry on the battlefield of Ukraine.
    The battleships went away for a couple of reasons.

    The 1-2 bricks they could lob 20 miles had about a 1% chance of a hit. Plus the explosive content was tiny. So guns sucked and were replaced by torpedoes, aircraft bombs and missiles.

    The amount of actual armour was a 30% of the displacement, very often, but covered a tiny percentage of the ship’s *sides*. The armour on top or underneath was thin or non-existent. The Royal Navy tried to design a ship with 12 inch deck armour, but getting it to float right side up was a problem.

    Further, missiles carrying tons of explosives were appearing. When hardened armour is hit by a huge explosion, it turns into massive fragments that destroy everything. And the rigidity of the armour propagates the shock everywhere. When the RN was worried about the Russians false claims to be completing their battleships, post war, they (the RN) did some tests with Sea Slug (huge anti aircraft missile). Which showed that one hit would utterly wreck a battleship - kick in the side armour, fragment opening compartments etc etc.

    So the guns sucked. Get rid of them and replace with missiles or aircraft. The armour was an actual hazard. So get rid of that. And guess what you are left with?

    Modern warships.
  • Badenoch good line

    'Two boys squabbling in the playground'
  • Nigelb said:
    How can we tell?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218

    Find out Now dropped some back polling with Your Party included from early Sept (1st to 8th)
    Corbyns snail like idiocy has seen them collapse back to 6% from 15%

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1972964678960890290?s=19

    Not sure why Sultana is bothering with him in a leadership role. Getting the party established then invite him in would have been the better route for her. Was always going to be a foot dragger.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,080
    Sandpit said:

    Off Topic, but PSA (as I don't think this got much coverage) when the headlines about the 20 euros (rather than 7 euros) was announced...

    How much does the ETIAS application cost?

    When applying using this official ETIAS website, you will be charged a fee of EUR 20. Applicants who are under 18 or over 70 years of age are exempt from this payment. Also exempt are family members of EU citizens and family members of non-EU nationals who have the right to move freely throughout the European Union.

    It’s rather amusing to see American Twitter going totally mad at this scheme from the EU, seemingly unaware that their own country has been doing exactly the same to visitors the other way for more than a decade!
    I have to admit I'm surprised at that.

    Why are they animated, when the EU is the kind of woke empire that they would never wish to visit?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,200
    Peter Zeihan posts an interesting 5 minute talk on Russia's current problems with it's oil industry. But wtf has happened to his hair?
    https://youtu.be/Rs-zQppucJA?si=EyJ3_4E9lJzaLqko
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,511

    I read the highlights of the speech on the Guardian live blog. I didn't discern much in the way of preparing the country for further tax rises in the budget.

    For those of us on here, hanging on every monthly update from the ONS, tax rises at the budget are not going to be a surprise, but I think that they're going to be an unpleasant surprise to a lot of people who aren't following so closely.

    I thought that the speech was confused and contradictory in places. On the one hand he said that Labour had to avoid falling into the trap of defending the status quo. Then he defended the status quo by arguing at length that Britain wasn't broken.

    Yes, tricky one. The 'country gone to the dogs' drivel is classic pitchrolling for extremists and charlatans. You have to rebut that. But in doing so you don't want to look like you think all is well. Esp when you used CHANGE as your motif for getting elected just last year. I haven't seen the speech yet so can't opine on whether he managed to tread that line. You obviously think he didn't.

    Fwiw I find 'Britain is broken' to be brainless hyperbole. It plays into that whole pseudo-dynamic language of 'fixing' this and 'fixing' that as if the country is some sort of meccano set or malfunctioning machine. All this does is dumb everything down. It raises unrealistic expectations and implies hard tasks are easy. Pandering to the electorate is actually to disrespect them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193
    Cookie said:

    Peter Zeihan posts an interesting 5 minute talk on Russia's current problems with it's oil industry. But wtf has happened to his hair?
    https://youtu.be/Rs-zQppucJA?si=EyJ3_4E9lJzaLqko

    Russia dropping tarrifs on *IMPORTS* of oil and gas has to be one of the craziest stories today, in among a sea of crazy stories.

    https://x.com/delfoo/status/1972945908146045207

    It’s much worse than they’re letting on, Ukranian “kinetic sanctions” are working, and the russian economy is going to be totally screwed if they have to import fuel for the winter, if they even find anyone to sell it to them.

    The queues for petrol are already damn close to Moscow, and RT propogandists were talking this morning about the benefits of battlefield cavalry, because they’re out of proper vehicles.

    What is it they say about things happening slowly, then happening quickly?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,627
    edited September 30
    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,080
    Cookie said:

    Peter Zeihan posts an interesting 5 minute talk on Russia's current problems with it's oil industry. But wtf has happened to his hair?
    https://youtu.be/Rs-zQppucJA?si=EyJ3_4E9lJzaLqko

    He's a fan of Beavis and Butthead?

    https://youtu.be/oQ9Cp7cM4IA?t=3
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,294
    kinabalu said:

    I read the highlights of the speech on the Guardian live blog. I didn't discern much in the way of preparing the country for further tax rises in the budget.

    For those of us on here, hanging on every monthly update from the ONS, tax rises at the budget are not going to be a surprise, but I think that they're going to be an unpleasant surprise to a lot of people who aren't following so closely.

    I thought that the speech was confused and contradictory in places. On the one hand he said that Labour had to avoid falling into the trap of defending the status quo. Then he defended the status quo by arguing at length that Britain wasn't broken.

    Yes, tricky one. The 'country gone to the dogs' drivel is classic pitchrolling for extremists and charlatans. You have to rebut that. But in doing so you don't want to look like you think all is well. Esp when you used CHANGE as your motif for getting elected just last year. I haven't seen the speech yet so can't opine on whether he managed to tread that line. You obviously think he didn't.

    Fwiw I find 'Britain is broken' to be brainless hyperbole. It plays into that whole pseudo-dynamic language of 'fixing' this and 'fixing' that as if the country is some sort of meccano set or malfunctioning machine. All this does is dumb everything down. It raises unrealistic expectations and implies hard tasks are easy. Pandering to the electorate is actually to disrespect them.
    I know this is crazy populist reactionary fascism, but what about doing something?

    As opposed to talking about doing something.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,583
    The art of long speeches is in the delivery and timing. Actual texts when read of nearly all speeches are utterly dead and full of simplistic platitudes (Gettysburg is an exception).

    Starmer wasn't too bad today by his pretty low standards. It was, for me, an OK reminder that of all the badly performing circus acts that make up our parties at the moment, Labour is the least worst of those who could form a government. I listened rather than watched, so I missed any compulsory faux flag fluttering that went on among the North Korean element.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,655
    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,660

    Nigelb said:
    How can we tell?
    Highlights from summaries I've seen of Hegseth

    Changes to procurement - they can't see a fat budget without trying to steal some of it
    An end to whistleblower protections
    Open season for bullying and sexual harassment

    They assembled 800 of the top brass in the same room for this?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,504

    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?

    He mentioned 1000% reduction. So if it previously cost $100, in future you will receive $900 with your medication.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,655

    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?

    He mentioned 1000% reduction. So if it previously cost $100, in future you will receive $900 with your medication.
    Wow. That really is "the Art of the Deal". Impressive!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193
    edited September 30

    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?

    He mentioned 1000% reduction. So if it previously cost $100, in future you will receive $900 with your medication.
    He’s saying what he needs to say to get everyone talking about it.

    The crazy thing is that there’s actually plenty of 10 cent drugs that somehow manage to cost $100 in the US - that’s 1000x, 100,000% markup.

    US healthcare is that screwed, and everyone not directly benefitting from the system knows it.

    Meanwhile “Here is the NBC Nightly News, brought to you by Pfizer”.
  • algarkirk said:

    The art of long speeches is in the delivery and timing. Actual texts when read of nearly all speeches are utterly dead and full of simplistic platitudes (Gettysburg is an exception).

    Starmer wasn't too bad today by his pretty low standards. It was, for me, an OK reminder that of all the badly performing circus acts that make up our parties at the moment, Labour is the least worst of those who could form a government. I listened rather than watched, so I missed any compulsory faux flag fluttering that went on among the North Korean element.

    Careful now- some people need a trigger warning if you are going to say things like that.

    But it highlights another thing about Starmer. He gets there... the tragedy is that he (or the people who write his words) is so bloody slow and cautious to find the right point.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,627
    Foss said:
    Tories have e been doing better with women than men since the leap in Reforms polling. Male Tories have gone carousing with Nige
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,655
    Sandpit said:

    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?

    He mentioned 1000% reduction. So if it previously cost $100, in future you will receive $900 with your medication.
    He’s saying what he needs to say to get everyone talking about it.

    The crazy thing is that there’s actually plenty of 10 cent drugs that somehow manage to cost $100 in the US - that’s 1000x, 100,000% markup.

    US healthcare is that screwed, and everyone not directly benefitting from the system knows it.
    Alternatively he doesn't understand how percentages work.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,511

    kinabalu said:

    I read the highlights of the speech on the Guardian live blog. I didn't discern much in the way of preparing the country for further tax rises in the budget.

    For those of us on here, hanging on every monthly update from the ONS, tax rises at the budget are not going to be a surprise, but I think that they're going to be an unpleasant surprise to a lot of people who aren't following so closely.

    I thought that the speech was confused and contradictory in places. On the one hand he said that Labour had to avoid falling into the trap of defending the status quo. Then he defended the status quo by arguing at length that Britain wasn't broken.

    Yes, tricky one. The 'country gone to the dogs' drivel is classic pitchrolling for extremists and charlatans. You have to rebut that. But in doing so you don't want to look like you think all is well. Esp when you used CHANGE as your motif for getting elected just last year. I haven't seen the speech yet so can't opine on whether he managed to tread that line. You obviously think he didn't.

    Fwiw I find 'Britain is broken' to be brainless hyperbole. It plays into that whole pseudo-dynamic language of 'fixing' this and 'fixing' that as if the country is some sort of meccano set or malfunctioning machine. All this does is dumb everything down. It raises unrealistic expectations and implies hard tasks are easy. Pandering to the electorate is actually to disrespect them.
    I know this is crazy populist reactionary fascism, but what about doing something?

    As opposed to talking about doing something.
    Bit of that, sure, just don't rely on it to get reelected. I personally never wanted politics to become like this, much preferred the dull old days, but you have to adapt. No point whinging about it. Although I always am.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193

    Sandpit said:

    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?

    He mentioned 1000% reduction. So if it previously cost $100, in future you will receive $900 with your medication.
    He’s saying what he needs to say to get everyone talking about it.

    The crazy thing is that there’s actually plenty of 10 cent drugs that somehow manage to cost $100 in the US - that’s 1000x, 100,000% markup.

    US healthcare is that screwed, and everyone not directly benefitting from the system knows it.
    Alternatively he doesn't understand how percentages work.
    “We send £350m a week to the EU. Let’s spend it on the NHS instead”.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,781
    edited September 30
    Dopermean said:

    Nigelb said:
    How can we tell?
    Highlights from summaries I've seen of Hegseth

    Changes to procurement - they can't see a fat budget without trying to steal some of it
    An end to whistleblower protections
    Open season for bullying and sexual harassment

    They assembled 800 of the top brass in the same room for this?
    The meeting was held in a SCIF facility - for "sensitive compartmentalised" information.

    None of the information in the meeting publiy broadcast - supposedy all of it - was sensitive, which is fairly odd.

    There's a lot that's quite odd about this meeting, in both the format and location.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,765

    Foss said:
    Tories have e been doing better with women than men since the leap in Reforms polling. Male Tories have gone carousing with Nige
    Makes sense - I'd just not internalised the implications elsewhere.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,294
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Peter Zeihan posts an interesting 5 minute talk on Russia's current problems with it's oil industry. But wtf has happened to his hair?
    https://youtu.be/Rs-zQppucJA?si=EyJ3_4E9lJzaLqko

    Russia dropping tarrifs on *IMPORTS* of oil and gas has to be one of the craziest stories today, in among a sea of crazy stories.

    https://x.com/delfoo/status/1972945908146045207

    It’s much worse than they’re letting on, Ukranian “kinetic sanctions” are working, and the russian economy is going to be totally screwed if they have to import fuel for the winter, if they even find anyone to sell it to them.

    The queues for petrol are already damn close to Moscow, and RT propogandists were talking this morning about the benefits of battlefield cavalry, because they’re out of proper vehicles.

    What is it they say about things happening slowly, then happening quickly?
    No - I expect that Russia will continue to wage war in ever more broken back fashion

    It’s existential for the Russian leadership. If they are not seen to win on the terms of their own irredentist nationalism - obliterating the independence of Ukraine - they will be out the window. Not just Putin, but the whole apparatus around him.

    The Russian government under Putin has enough grasp on power to maintain power. And, further, they understand that they will either hang together or hang separately.

    So it will stagger on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,294

    Sandpit said:

    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?

    He mentioned 1000% reduction. So if it previously cost $100, in future you will receive $900 with your medication.
    He’s saying what he needs to say to get everyone talking about it.

    The crazy thing is that there’s actually plenty of 10 cent drugs that somehow manage to cost $100 in the US - that’s 1000x, 100,000% markup.

    US healthcare is that screwed, and everyone not directly benefitting from the system knows it.
    Alternatively he doesn't understand how percentages work.
    Why not both?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Peter Zeihan posts an interesting 5 minute talk on Russia's current problems with it's oil industry. But wtf has happened to his hair?
    https://youtu.be/Rs-zQppucJA?si=EyJ3_4E9lJzaLqko

    Russia dropping tarrifs on *IMPORTS* of oil and gas has to be one of the craziest stories today, in among a sea of crazy stories.

    https://x.com/delfoo/status/1972945908146045207

    It’s much worse than they’re letting on, Ukranian “kinetic sanctions” are working, and the russian economy is going to be totally screwed if they have to import fuel for the winter, if they even find anyone to sell it to them.

    The queues for petrol are already damn close to Moscow, and RT propogandists were talking this morning about the benefits of battlefield cavalry, because they’re out of proper vehicles.

    What is it they say about things happening slowly, then happening quickly?
    No - I expect that Russia will continue to wage war in ever more broken back fashion

    It’s existential for the Russian leadership. If they are not seen to win on the terms of their own irredentist nationalism - obliterating the independence of Ukraine - they will be out the window. Not just Putin, but the whole apparatus around him.

    The Russian government under Putin has enough grasp on power to maintain power. And, further, they understand that they will either hang together or hang separately.

    So it will stagger on.
    Oh it will stagger on, that’s for sure, but horses vs HIMARS doesn’t seem like a particularly fair fight to me.

    Half a dozen well-placed Tomahawks on the Kerch Bridge and they’re left fighting with whose army?
  • Foss said:
    Tories have e been doing better with women than men since the leap in Reforms polling. Male Tories have gone carousing with Nige
    Not this one
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,294
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Peter Zeihan posts an interesting 5 minute talk on Russia's current problems with it's oil industry. But wtf has happened to his hair?
    https://youtu.be/Rs-zQppucJA?si=EyJ3_4E9lJzaLqko

    Russia dropping tarrifs on *IMPORTS* of oil and gas has to be one of the craziest stories today, in among a sea of crazy stories.

    https://x.com/delfoo/status/1972945908146045207

    It’s much worse than they’re letting on, Ukranian “kinetic sanctions” are working, and the russian economy is going to be totally screwed if they have to import fuel for the winter, if they even find anyone to sell it to them.

    The queues for petrol are already damn close to Moscow, and RT propogandists were talking this morning about the benefits of battlefield cavalry, because they’re out of proper vehicles.

    What is it they say about things happening slowly, then happening quickly?
    No - I expect that Russia will continue to wage war in ever more broken back fashion

    It’s existential for the Russian leadership. If they are not seen to win on the terms of their own irredentist nationalism - obliterating the independence of Ukraine - they will be out the window. Not just Putin, but the whole apparatus around him.

    The Russian government under Putin has enough grasp on power to maintain power. And, further, they understand that they will either hang together or hang separately.

    So it will stagger on.
    Oh it will stagger on, that’s for sure, but horses vs HIMARS doesn’t seem like a particularly fair fight to me.

    Half a dozen well-placed Tomahawks on the Kerch Bridge and they’re left fighting with whose army?
    It seems fairly clear the West (except Poland, the U.K. and the Baltics) will reduce support for Ukraine to prevent a repeat of the successful offensive.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,627

    Foss said:
    Tories have e been doing better with women than men since the leap in Reforms polling. Male Tories have gone carousing with Nige
    Not this one
    Good man yourself!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,627
    Foss said:

    Foss said:
    Tories have e been doing better with women than men since the leap in Reforms polling. Male Tories have gone carousing with Nige
    Makes sense - I'd just not internalised the implications elsewhere.
    Worth saying 'doing better' is a very relative term here!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,655

    Sandpit said:

    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?

    He mentioned 1000% reduction. So if it previously cost $100, in future you will receive $900 with your medication.
    He’s saying what he needs to say to get everyone talking about it.

    The crazy thing is that there’s actually plenty of 10 cent drugs that somehow manage to cost $100 in the US - that’s 1000x, 100,000% markup.

    US healthcare is that screwed, and everyone not directly benefitting from the system knows it.
    Alternatively he doesn't understand how percentages work.
    Why not both?
    Yes that's probable.
  • Nigelb said:
    Drachinifel and the excellent Battleship New Jersey channel did a section on bringing back the Iowas:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAZxDJjWKFQ

    It's a stupid idea, especially with the Iowas. Although I would love to see one at sea again. You'd be much better of converting more of the Iowa submarines to be arsenal ships...
    "Under Siege" - the best Steven Seagal film ever made!!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,657
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Peter Zeihan posts an interesting 5 minute talk on Russia's current problems with it's oil industry. But wtf has happened to his hair?
    https://youtu.be/Rs-zQppucJA?si=EyJ3_4E9lJzaLqko

    Russia dropping tarrifs on *IMPORTS* of oil and gas has to be one of the craziest stories today, in among a sea of crazy stories.

    https://x.com/delfoo/status/1972945908146045207

    It’s much worse than they’re letting on, Ukranian “kinetic sanctions” are working, and the russian economy is going to be totally screwed if they have to import fuel for the winter, if they even find anyone to sell it to them.

    The queues for petrol are already damn close to Moscow, and RT propogandists were talking this morning about the benefits of battlefield cavalry, because they’re out of proper vehicles.

    What is it they say about things happening slowly, then happening quickly?
    No - I expect that Russia will continue to wage war in ever more broken back fashion

    It’s existential for the Russian leadership. If they are not seen to win on the terms of their own irredentist nationalism - obliterating the independence of Ukraine - they will be out the window. Not just Putin, but the whole apparatus around him.

    The Russian government under Putin has enough grasp on power to maintain power. And, further, they understand that they will either hang together or hang separately.

    So it will stagger on.
    Oh it will stagger on, that’s for sure, but horses vs HIMARS doesn’t seem like a particularly fair fight to me.

    Half a dozen well-placed Tomahawks on the Kerch Bridge and they’re left fighting with whose army?
    Sadly, my understanding is that there's now a trainline through Southern occupied Ukraine, so the Kerch bridge is less essential to keeping Crimea supplied than it was.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367

    Sandpit said:

    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?

    He mentioned 1000% reduction. So if it previously cost $100, in future you will receive $900 with your medication.
    He’s saying what he needs to say to get everyone talking about it.

    The crazy thing is that there’s actually plenty of 10 cent drugs that somehow manage to cost $100 in the US - that’s 1000x, 100,000% markup.

    US healthcare is that screwed, and everyone not directly benefitting from the system knows it.
    Alternatively he doesn't understand how percentages work.
    He's really sharp you know. Or senile. It's hard to tell...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,027
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?

    He mentioned 1000% reduction. So if it previously cost $100, in future you will receive $900 with your medication.
    He’s saying what he needs to say to get everyone talking about it.

    The crazy thing is that there’s actually plenty of 10 cent drugs that somehow manage to cost $100 in the US - that’s 1000x, 100,000% markup.

    US healthcare is that screwed, and everyone not directly benefitting from the system knows it.
    Alternatively he doesn't understand how percentages work.
    “We send £350m a week to the EU. Let’s spend it on the NHS instead”.
    It will not happen soon, it may not happen even soonish, but the NHS's days are numbered. You simply can't offer universal non-contributary healthcare in todays world.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Peter Zeihan posts an interesting 5 minute talk on Russia's current problems with it's oil industry. But wtf has happened to his hair?
    https://youtu.be/Rs-zQppucJA?si=EyJ3_4E9lJzaLqko

    Russia dropping tarrifs on *IMPORTS* of oil and gas has to be one of the craziest stories today, in among a sea of crazy stories.

    https://x.com/delfoo/status/1972945908146045207

    It’s much worse than they’re letting on, Ukranian “kinetic sanctions” are working, and the russian economy is going to be totally screwed if they have to import fuel for the winter, if they even find anyone to sell it to them.

    The queues for petrol are already damn close to Moscow, and RT propogandists were talking this morning about the benefits of battlefield cavalry, because they’re out of proper vehicles.

    What is it they say about things happening slowly, then happening quickly?
    No - I expect that Russia will continue to wage war in ever more broken back fashion

    It’s existential for the Russian leadership. If they are not seen to win on the terms of their own irredentist nationalism - obliterating the independence of Ukraine - they will be out the window. Not just Putin, but the whole apparatus around him.

    The Russian government under Putin has enough grasp on power to maintain power. And, further, they understand that they will either hang together or hang separately.

    So it will stagger on.
    Oh it will stagger on, that’s for sure, but horses vs HIMARS doesn’t seem like a particularly fair fight to me.

    Half a dozen well-placed Tomahawks on the Kerch Bridge and they’re left fighting with whose army?
    Sadly, my understanding is that there's now a trainline through Southern occupied Ukraine, so the Kerch bridge is less essential to keeping Crimea supplied than it was.
    Taking out any given railway line hasn’t proved particularly difficult in the past few weeks, and the symbolism of blowing the bridge makes it well worth spending a billion or two to make it happen.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,192

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,511
    edited September 30

    Foss said:
    Tories have e been doing better with women than men since the leap in Reforms polling. Male Tories have gone carousing with Nige
    Not this one
    Loving the staunchness and I sense it's for real. If Farage is going to become PM it won't be down to you.

    Course you were never a Leaver, were you. That is the strongest indicator of Reform switchers from either Con or Lab. And it's why there's a lot more of the former than the latter.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,192
    Nigelb said:
    Does anyone remember the lunatic asylum jokes of the late seventies? It was just before the Essex girl jokes....
  • Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    You can get a hint of her approach when she described Starmer v Farage as '2 boys squabbling in the playground'

    Also labour need a conservative recovery otherwise it will be Farage in no 10
  • Nigel Farrage dominating the coverage of the Labour conference, as with the LibDems the week before and, odds on to do the same to the Conservatives next week.

    He's some how managed to get the Labour party to renact the Last night of the Proms (without the annoying EU flags).

    He really is very good at this.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,627
    Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    Depends on how you define revive

    Right now can they revive to challenge for first in 2029? No
    Can they revive to challenge for opposition and 100 to 150 seats? Yes
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,655
    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?

    He mentioned 1000% reduction. So if it previously cost $100, in future you will receive $900 with your medication.
    He’s saying what he needs to say to get everyone talking about it.

    The crazy thing is that there’s actually plenty of 10 cent drugs that somehow manage to cost $100 in the US - that’s 1000x, 100,000% markup.

    US healthcare is that screwed, and everyone not directly benefitting from the system knows it.
    Alternatively he doesn't understand how percentages work.
    He's really sharp you know. Or senile. It's hard to tell...
    Jasmine Crocker showed me his University entrance IQ test results on YouTube. I doubt senility comes into the equation. I suspect he never understood percentages.
  • Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    The question the Conservatives need to ask is- what and who are they for?

    In the good old days, they were an uneasy coalition of red-meat patriots who were proud of it, pointy-headed ideologues who actually read CPS reports and "decent chaps" who considered themselves "not that political, actually". It shouldn't have worked, but it did- mostly because the alternative was some form of ghastly socialism.

    It's not obvious that any of them have a place in the current party. Nigel's offering redder meat, there hasn't been a good new idea on the right since the Big Society(!), and decent chaps have gone to fix church roofs with the Lib Dems instead.

    So, apart from ancestral memory, what's left? We might get an answer next week, but I doubt it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,294
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Peter Zeihan posts an interesting 5 minute talk on Russia's current problems with it's oil industry. But wtf has happened to his hair?
    https://youtu.be/Rs-zQppucJA?si=EyJ3_4E9lJzaLqko

    Russia dropping tarrifs on *IMPORTS* of oil and gas has to be one of the craziest stories today, in among a sea of crazy stories.

    https://x.com/delfoo/status/1972945908146045207

    It’s much worse than they’re letting on, Ukranian “kinetic sanctions” are working, and the russian economy is going to be totally screwed if they have to import fuel for the winter, if they even find anyone to sell it to them.

    The queues for petrol are already damn close to Moscow, and RT propogandists were talking this morning about the benefits of battlefield cavalry, because they’re out of proper vehicles.

    What is it they say about things happening slowly, then happening quickly?
    No - I expect that Russia will continue to wage war in ever more broken back fashion

    It’s existential for the Russian leadership. If they are not seen to win on the terms of their own irredentist nationalism - obliterating the independence of Ukraine - they will be out the window. Not just Putin, but the whole apparatus around him.

    The Russian government under Putin has enough grasp on power to maintain power. And, further, they understand that they will either hang together or hang separately.

    So it will stagger on.
    Oh it will stagger on, that’s for sure, but horses vs HIMARS doesn’t seem like a particularly fair fight to me.

    Half a dozen well-placed Tomahawks on the Kerch Bridge and they’re left fighting with whose army?
    Sadly, my understanding is that there's now a trainline through Southern occupied Ukraine, so the Kerch bridge is less essential to keeping Crimea supplied than it was.
    In the age of the $100 precision guided weapon, train lines for logistics are a monument to persistent stupidity.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,655

    Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    You can get a hint of her approach when she described Starmer v Farage as '2 boys squabbling in the playground'

    Also labour need a conservative recovery otherwise it will be Farage in no 10
    I understand that and I suspect Labour do too. The Conservatives seem content to piggy back on Farage into Downing Street. Quite what jobs in Government he'd have for them I am unsure. Cook, cleaner, chauffeur maybe.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,781
    edited September 30
    Yet another BBC Six o'clock News vox pop from a red wall seat. It's genuinely quite rare to see them anywhere else, nowadays.

    I think it's quite reasonable to assume that Robbie Gibb and other May and Johnson-era appointments have affected the tenor of BBC coverage, particularly with what's recently emerged about Gibb's memo encouraging "cultural understanding" of Reform.
  • kinabalu said:

    Foss said:
    Tories have e been doing better with women than men since the leap in Reforms polling. Male Tories have gone carousing with Nige
    Not this one
    Loving the staunchness and I sense it's for real. If Farage is going to become PM it won't be down to you.

    Course you were never a Leaver, were you. That is the strongest indicator of Reform switchers from either Con or Lab. And it's why there's a lot more of the former than the latter.
    I was 50/50 but did vote remain but very content we are out of the EU

    Starmer seems to have steadied labour's nerves and I absolutely endorse the idiotic 50% to go to University policy by Blair

    However, it does seem that the conference was about spending more and more money and now Reeves is to announce changes in the 2 child cap

    Labour are governing as always, and are simply not equipped for today's straightjacket on borrowing

    Interesting that Badenoch has again appealed to Starmer to come together to agree reductions in benefits on a cross party basis, which is good politics but he won't listen

    She will certainly oppose any increase in the 2 child cap anyway
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,655
    Not a very good day for Starmer, but a fantastic one for Farage.

    The usual PB Tory wishcasters seem to believe it was a good day for them too. Unless they concede and join Reform, I am not sure how.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,511

    Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    You can get a hint of her approach when she described Starmer v Farage as '2 boys squabbling in the playground'

    Also labour need a conservative recovery otherwise it will be Farage in no 10
    I understand that and I suspect Labour do too. The Conservatives seem content to piggy back on Farage into Downing Street. Quite what jobs in Government he'd have for them I am unsure. Cook, cleaner, chauffeur maybe.
    What about the hyperactive born again white Christian nationalist, Robert Jenrick, though?

    Surely he won't roll over for Nigel Farage. He's going to fight fight fight for that 'people with legitimate concerns about immigration' vote.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,443

    Yet another BBC News vox pop from a red wall seat. It's genuinely quite rare to see them elsewhere, nowadays.

    I think it's quite reasonable to assume that Robbie Gibb and other May and Johnson-era appointments are affecting the tenor of BBC coverage.

    It’s as if the only places that matter are the so called Red Wall . Surprisingly though it wasn’t the Starmer hate fest I expected .
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,781
    edited September 30
    nico67 said:

    Yet another BBC News vox pop from a red wall seat. It's genuinely quite rare to see them elsewhere, nowadays.

    I think it's quite reasonable to assume that Robbie Gibb and other May and Johnson-era appointments are affecting the tenor of BBC coverage.

    It’s as if the only places that matter are the so called Red Wall . Surprisingly though it wasn’t the Starmer hate fest I expected .
    Yea, Barnsley seems to still quite like Starner, which was interesting and not in the Farage script, I thought.

    Maybe he still has more hope than it's recently appeared. The Thiel and Ellison I.D. cards scheme has to go, however.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,027
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    You can get a hint of her approach when she described Starmer v Farage as '2 boys squabbling in the playground'

    Also labour need a conservative recovery otherwise it will be Farage in no 10
    I understand that and I suspect Labour do too. The Conservatives seem content to piggy back on Farage into Downing Street. Quite what jobs in Government he'd have for them I am unsure. Cook, cleaner, chauffeur maybe.
    What about the hyperactive born again white Christian nationalist, Robert Jenrick, though?

    Surely he won't roll over for Nigel Farage. He's going to fight fight fight for that 'people with legitimate concerns about immigration' vote.
    He's the Tories' Burnham.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,511
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    You can get a hint of her approach when she described Starmer v Farage as '2 boys squabbling in the playground'

    Also labour need a conservative recovery otherwise it will be Farage in no 10
    I understand that and I suspect Labour do too. The Conservatives seem content to piggy back on Farage into Downing Street. Quite what jobs in Government he'd have for them I am unsure. Cook, cleaner, chauffeur maybe.
    What about the hyperactive born again white Christian nationalist, Robert Jenrick, though?

    Surely he won't roll over for Nigel Farage. He's going to fight fight fight for that 'people with legitimate concerns about immigration' vote.
    He's the Tories' Burnham.
    In that he won't get the job? I tend to agree.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,027
    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    You can get a hint of her approach when she described Starmer v Farage as '2 boys squabbling in the playground'

    Also labour need a conservative recovery otherwise it will be Farage in no 10
    I understand that and I suspect Labour do too. The Conservatives seem content to piggy back on Farage into Downing Street. Quite what jobs in Government he'd have for them I am unsure. Cook, cleaner, chauffeur maybe.
    What about the hyperactive born again white Christian nationalist, Robert Jenrick, though?

    Surely he won't roll over for Nigel Farage. He's going to fight fight fight for that 'people with legitimate concerns about immigration' vote.
    He's the Tories' Burnham.
    In that he won't get the job? I tend to agree.
    Have you considered just agreeing?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,665

    Nigelb said:
    I guess we've found the one guy who will be impressed by the Russian use of cavalry on the battlefield of Ukraine.
    The battleships went away for a couple of reasons.

    The 1-2 bricks they could lob 20 miles had about a 1% chance of a hit. Plus the explosive content was tiny. So guns sucked and were replaced by torpedoes, aircraft bombs and missiles.

    The amount of actual armour was a 30% of the displacement, very often, but covered a tiny percentage of the ship’s *sides*. The armour on top or underneath was thin or non-existent. The Royal Navy tried to design a ship with 12 inch deck armour, but getting it to float right side up was a problem.

    Further, missiles carrying tons of explosives were appearing. When hardened armour is hit by a huge explosion, it turns into massive fragments that destroy everything. And the rigidity of the armour propagates the shock everywhere. When the RN was worried about the Russians false claims to be completing their battleships, post war, they (the RN) did some tests with Sea Slug (huge anti aircraft missile). Which showed that one hit would utterly wreck a battleship - kick in the side armour, fragment opening compartments etc etc.

    So the guns sucked. Get rid of them and replace with missiles or aircraft. The armour was an actual hazard. So get rid of that. And guess what you are left with?

    Modern warships.
    And even those are likely now on the way to being obsolete.
  • Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    You can get a hint of her approach when she described Starmer v Farage as '2 boys squabbling in the playground'

    Also labour need a conservative recovery otherwise it will be Farage in no 10
    I understand that and I suspect Labour do too. The Conservatives seem content to piggy back on Farage into Downing Street. Quite what jobs in Government he'd have for them I am unsure. Cook, cleaner, chauffeur maybe.
    What about the hyperactive born again white Christian nationalist, Robert Jenrick, though?

    Surely he won't roll over for Nigel Farage. He's going to fight fight fight for that 'people with legitimate concerns about immigration' vote.
    He's the Tories' Burnham.
    Harsh.

    Not sure who should be more offended by the comparison, so probably fair, but harsh.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,627

    Not a very good day for Starmer, but a fantastic one for Farage.

    The usual PB Tory wishcasters seem to believe it was a good day for them too. Unless they concede and join Reform, I am not sure how.

    Ive not seen anyone here comment that today was a good day for the Tories.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,665
    Sandpit said:

    Great deal with Big Pharma by Trump. He has got a between 50% and 100% discount for buyers from Pfizer. Does that mean free drugs?

    He mentioned 1000% reduction. So if it previously cost $100, in future you will receive $900 with your medication.
    He’s saying what he needs to say to get everyone talking about it.

    The crazy thing is that there’s actually plenty of 10 cent drugs that somehow manage to cost $100 in the US - that’s 1000x, 100,000% markup.

    US healthcare is that screwed, and everyone not directly benefitting from the system knows it.

    Meanwhile “Here is the NBC Nightly News, brought to you by Pfizer”.
    The US has cheaper generics than do we.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,491

    Nigelb said:
    I guess we've found the one guy who will be impressed by the Russian use of cavalry on the battlefield of Ukraine.
    The battleships went away for a couple of reasons.

    The 1-2 bricks they could lob 20 miles had about a 1% chance of a hit. Plus the explosive content was tiny. So guns sucked and were replaced by torpedoes, aircraft bombs and missiles.

    The amount of actual armour was a 30% of the displacement, very often, but covered a tiny percentage of the ship’s *sides*. The armour on top or underneath was thin or non-existent. The Royal Navy tried to design a ship with 12 inch deck armour, but getting it to float right side up was a problem.

    Further, missiles carrying tons of explosives were appearing. When hardened armour is hit by a huge explosion, it turns into massive fragments that destroy everything. And the rigidity of the armour propagates the shock everywhere. When the RN was worried about the Russians false claims to be completing their battleships, post war, they (the RN) did some tests with Sea Slug (huge anti aircraft missile). Which showed that one hit would utterly wreck a battleship - kick in the side armour, fragment opening compartments etc etc.

    So the guns sucked. Get rid of them and replace with missiles or aircraft. The armour was an actual hazard. So get rid of that. And guess what you are left with?

    Modern warships.
    It rather reminds me of Michelangelo carving David. You simply remove all the bits of marble that are not David. So with the modern battleship.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,630
    edited September 30

    Not a very good day for Starmer, but a fantastic one for Farage.

    The usual PB Tory wishcasters seem to believe it was a good day for them too. Unless they concede and join Reform, I am not sure how.

    The jury is out on all of that

    Let's see where the polls settle post the conservative conference

    I hope Badenoch rises above all the name calling, and lays out her policies on the cost of living, immigration, NHS, education, welfare, taxes, and support for businesses who generate the growth everyone wants

    If she is wise she needs to be 'the grown up' and avoid name calling because these are the issues the public want answers to, not anything else
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,511
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    You can get a hint of her approach when she described Starmer v Farage as '2 boys squabbling in the playground'

    Also labour need a conservative recovery otherwise it will be Farage in no 10
    I understand that and I suspect Labour do too. The Conservatives seem content to piggy back on Farage into Downing Street. Quite what jobs in Government he'd have for them I am unsure. Cook, cleaner, chauffeur maybe.
    What about the hyperactive born again white Christian nationalist, Robert Jenrick, though?

    Surely he won't roll over for Nigel Farage. He's going to fight fight fight for that 'people with legitimate concerns about immigration' vote.
    He's the Tories' Burnham.
    In that he won't get the job? I tend to agree.
    Have you considered just agreeing?
    Yes, but I'm only tending to in this case. 'I agree' - or the even firmer 'agreed' - would have given the wrong impression.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,027

    Not a very good day for Starmer, but a fantastic one for Farage.

    The usual PB Tory wishcasters seem to believe it was a good day for them too. Unless they concede and join Reform, I am not sure how.

    Ive not seen anyone here comment that today was a good day for the Tories.
    Yeah but there's a lot of that on politicalbettingandniceshoes.com
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,665

    Nigelb said:
    How can we tell?
    Ask Leon.
    He's our expert diagnostician.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781

    Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    You can get a hint of her approach when she described Starmer v Farage as '2 boys squabbling in the playground'

    Also labour need a conservative recovery otherwise it will be Farage in no 10
    Yes, a good line.

    It would seem a good time to reveal some of those THOUGHT OUT PLANS that she's been going on about for the last year. The trouble is with the THOUGHT OUT PLAN line though is that if one of her policies has a couple of snags or encounters unexpected opposition, it looks doubly bad. She has set herself up to fail unless she presents A PLAN that is completely unassailable, and I am not sure how likely that is.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,657
    Cookie said:

    Peter Zeihan posts an interesting 5 minute talk on Russia's current problems with it's oil industry. But wtf has happened to his hair?
    https://youtu.be/Rs-zQppucJA?si=EyJ3_4E9lJzaLqko

    Okay, there are a couple of technical inaccuracies in what was generally an interesting video. For a start, there are various different types of 'artifical lift' that are used to bring oil to the surface that can slowed down, so that - if the gap is relatively small - you don't necessarily need to have actual wells taken fully offline. So, for example if you're doing water injection, you can can reduce the quantity of water pumped in. Likewise the old 'nodding donkeys' can be set so they only run every other hour, etc.

    But his point is a generally good one: Russia is experiencing a world of hurt in its energy industry that is going to have massive (and potentially long-term) consequences.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,627
    Omnium said:

    Not a very good day for Starmer, but a fantastic one for Farage.

    The usual PB Tory wishcasters seem to believe it was a good day for them too. Unless they concede and join Reform, I am not sure how.

    Ive not seen anyone here comment that today was a good day for the Tories.
    Yeah but there's a lot of that on politicalbettingandniceshoes.com
    Expensive and ostentatious shoes. None of the shoes ever mentioned on RadioheadandPineapple dot com are nice
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,027
    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    As much as this was a key moment for Starmer, next weeks Tory conference will be high stakes. The Tories have drifted back by another point or so on average polling despite a slight uptick in Badenochs rating. They need to start a comeback or they risk marginalisation that cannot be reversed. Starmer barely mentioning them is a humbling moment for them but it also presents a possible opportunity - build their voter coalition back up a bit whilst Labour obsess over Farage. 'Last mover' in the conferences might help a bit if there is any interest gained to stick but essentially they have become detached from 20% which is really the minimum to stay in the game.
    If they can get even minimal traction, throw everything at North Wales, Monmouthshire, Pembrokeshire and the Vale then in Scotland the Borders and Aberdeenshire and the oddball Tory stronger niches like Ayr and Eastwood. They might just about equal Annabels nadir of 15 seats at Holyrood if they have a better end of expectations night (14% in both votes?), in Wales they should probably now just aim for fourth and double figures vote and seats (try and get 2 in both Clwyd and Monmouth/Torfaen).
    Local elections wise identify which District councils they can hold and focus on that, have a real go at Norfolk/Suffolk mayor and look for 'success' in London - gain Westminster and ine of Barnet/Wandsworth and hold Harrow, Kensington and Hillingdon would be a fair night (losing control of Bexley and Bromley)
    The point being, all of that and they are hanging on to relevance. They really are in a dreadful state at the moment and oblivion (relatively speaking) is moving from possible to at least as likely as not.

    If Farage can wreck their conference with a big defectionit might tip it to more likely than not

    The only way the Tories can revive is by mainlining from Farage which she can't and won't do so no one will notice what she does. Short of a strip tease at the podium I can think of nothing that will grab the outside audience's attention. They are currently a dead parrot
    You can get a hint of her approach when she described Starmer v Farage as '2 boys squabbling in the playground'

    Also labour need a conservative recovery otherwise it will be Farage in no 10
    I understand that and I suspect Labour do too. The Conservatives seem content to piggy back on Farage into Downing Street. Quite what jobs in Government he'd have for them I am unsure. Cook, cleaner, chauffeur maybe.
    What about the hyperactive born again white Christian nationalist, Robert Jenrick, though?

    Surely he won't roll over for Nigel Farage. He's going to fight fight fight for that 'people with legitimate concerns about immigration' vote.
    He's the Tories' Burnham.
    In that he won't get the job? I tend to agree.
    Have you considered just agreeing?
    Yes, but I'm only tending to in this case. 'I agree' - or the even firmer 'agreed' - would have given the wrong impression.
    I'm sure the fence posts will bring you round shortly.
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