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The Danny Kruger effect – politicalbetting.com

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  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,334
    edited September 22
    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Was that a Field scabious flashing past? Nice but not super rare or anything. Limestone and chalk grassland species.

    However, a quick search suggets there are also Pasque flowers, which are indeed rare, and the site is a SSSI. We've just spent a lot of effort introducing those to some limestone grassland from collected native seed because it is at serious risk of going extinct in Yorkshire.

    The heath will need cutting to manage it, as well as grazing, so the answer is to either have the kite festival after the hay is cut, or hold it on a part of the site not in the SSSI.

    Do you even need cut grass to fly a kite?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,315
    nico67 said:

    Finally the question was asked by the DT.

    EU nationals aren’t included who had settled status from the Withdrawal Agreement.

    Suspect this is less to do with refraining from upsetting the EU, and more to do with the colour of people's skin, sadly.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,179
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The site is described as a "heath," which in southern England are often under terrible pressure from developers and recreational disturbance. Very few left now. They can be precious habitats, and should be protected.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,661
    edited September 22
    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    Pulpstar said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    I don't know who they are, but the shit cancellation of the brilliant kite festival was well-publicised.

    Some links:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd18my2e31qo
    https://www.royston-crow.co.uk/news/24277847.royston-kite-festival-cancelled-government-concerns/

    NE don't seem to care about people's dogs shi**ing all over the place.
    Dr Lawrence Newport.

    Likes - Renewable energy
    Dislikes - XL bullies.
    Is that who they are?

    In this case, they've got a point. NE stopped a perfectly good event for locals, which raised oodles of money for charity. They did it on the merest of excuses, AIUI without looking into how their concerns could be mitigated.

    Big organisations like Natural England or the National Trust can do good work. They can also be utter ****s.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,298
    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    Finally the question was asked by the DT.

    EU nationals aren’t included who had settled status from the Withdrawal Agreement.

    Suspect this is less to do with refraining from upsetting the EU, and more to do with the colour of people's skin, sadly.
    It is probably because it is subject to an international treaty
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,800

    Pulpstar said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    I don't know who they are, but the shit cancellation of the brilliant kite festival was well-publicised.

    Some links:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd18my2e31qo
    https://www.royston-crow.co.uk/news/24277847.royston-kite-festival-cancelled-government-concerns/

    NE don't seem to care about people's dogs shi**ing all over the place.
    Dr Lawrence Newport.

    Likes - Renewable energy
    Dislikes - XL bullies.
    Is that who they are?

    In this case, they've got a point. NE stopped a perfectly good event for locals, which raised oodles of money for charity. They did it on the merest of excuses, AIUI without looking into how their concerns could be mitigated.

    Big organisations like Natural England or the National Trust can do good work. They can also be utter ****s.
    Bat Tunnel, anyone?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The site is described as a "heath," which in southern England are often under terrible pressure from developers and recreational disturbance. Very few left now. They can be precious habitats, and should be protected.
    I go there regularly. I have walked, cycled, and run, up and around it. There will be no housing pressure on that heath; and if they wanted to care for nature, they could always take over the adjacent gold course. ;)

    Next, it'll be banning people from it "to protect nature..."
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,510
    I've just heard Rachel Reeves say "...this government are..."

    Disgraceful.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,800

    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    Finally the question was asked by the DT.

    EU nationals aren’t included who had settled status from the Withdrawal Agreement.

    Suspect this is less to do with refraining from upsetting the EU, and more to do with the colour of people's skin, sadly.
    It is probably because it is subject to an international treaty
    I guess they think it's not worthwhile touching. As I understand it, no one is now eligible for it, and it cannot be passed on to children.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,634

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    Why now? Do they recognise Kemi as a policy free zone? Or are they worried about those on Reform's right? Or has someone at the BBC promised them as much airtime as they want despite the fact they are a (very) minor party at Westminster?
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,486

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    Yes and if they get into power there's nothing stopping them going even further in their mass deportation attempts.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446
    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    Finally the question was asked by the DT.

    EU nationals aren’t included who had settled status from the Withdrawal Agreement.

    Suspect this is less to do with refraining from upsetting the EU, and more to do with the colour of people's skin, sadly.
    Will Reform stop people accessing their pension which they’ve paid into for years if they’re deported . People could have spent years paying into the system and then because they don’t meet the salary requirement could be kicked out .
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The site is described as a "heath," which in southern England are often under terrible pressure from developers and recreational disturbance. Very few left now. They can be precious habitats, and should be protected.
    I go there regularly. I have walked, cycled, and run, up and around it. There will be no housing pressure on that heath; and if they wanted to care for nature, they could always take over the adjacent gold course. ;)

    Next, it'll be banning people from it "to protect nature..."
    The National Trust removed a foot bridge to try and prevent local people from walking through a piece of marshland. As they have done for centuries.

    They then did the “a bridge will cost £250,000”. For a fucking plank.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,510

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    But will Kemi (or Bobby J) follow them across?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    Battlebus said:

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    Why now? Do they recognise Kemi as a policy free zone? Or are they worried about those on Reform's right? Or has someone at the BBC promised them as much airtime as they want despite the fact they are a (very) minor party at Westminster?
    Good question.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,179

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The site is described as a "heath," which in southern England are often under terrible pressure from developers and recreational disturbance. Very few left now. They can be precious habitats, and should be protected.
    I go there regularly. I have walked, cycled, and run, up and around it. There will be no housing pressure on that heath; and if they wanted to care for nature, they could always take over the adjacent gold course. ;)

    Next, it'll be banning people from it "to protect nature..."
    I don't know the site, but if you want things like nightjars, woodlarks, etc., to survive in this country you simply have to restrict access, esp from dog walkers, trail bikers etc. These habitats are fragile and will be degraded without some measure of protection.
    The alternative is to live in a world of asphalt, dog shit, and crisp packets.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,334
    edited September 22

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The site is described as a "heath," which in southern England are often under terrible pressure from developers and recreational disturbance. Very few left now. They can be precious habitats, and should be protected.
    I go there regularly. I have walked, cycled, and run, up and around it. There will be no housing pressure on that heath; and if they wanted to care for nature, they could always take over the adjacent gold course. ;)

    Next, it'll be banning people from it "to protect nature..."
    The golf course is probably a haven from public pressure. The best bits of remnant dry lowland heath in the Flatlands are all on golf courses.

    I'm not a fan of Natural England - far from it - but in this case they have a statutory duty to protect SSSIs.

    You could certainly argue that the change of view on a particular event is unnecessary but it probably all goes back to the EU habitats directives.

    They could work on a compromise but there's probably just one person in an office somewhere that sees nothing but planning applications all day and no time to do anything other than object.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,000

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The site is described as a "heath," which in southern England are often under terrible pressure from developers and recreational disturbance. Very few left now. They can be precious habitats, and should be protected.
    I go there regularly. I have walked, cycled, and run, up and around it. There will be no housing pressure on that heath; and if they wanted to care for nature, they could always take over the adjacent gold course. ;)

    Next, it'll be banning people from it "to protect nature..."
    I'm a big right-to-roam advocate but if an environment is that rare and critical for biodiversity then yes, banning any access might well be justifiable. Capercaillie leks would be a good start; dogs would be blanket banned from all nature reserves if we were serious about conservation.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,682

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,510

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The site is described as a "heath," which in southern England are often under terrible pressure from developers and recreational disturbance. Very few left now. They can be precious habitats, and should be protected.
    I go there regularly. I have walked, cycled, and run, up and around it. There will be no housing pressure on that heath; and if they wanted to care for nature, they could always take over the adjacent gold course. ;)

    Next, it'll be banning people from it "to protect nature..."
    People should be banned from a lot of places to protect nature.

    Whenever I read about money being spent at a wildlife site "to improve public access" I shake my head.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,859
    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    edited September 22

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    But will Kemi (or Bobby J) follow them across?
    No, Reform will leave room on the 'right wing of the centre right' as it were for the Tories to slot into on immigration and try to win back those uncomfortable with an extremely hardline immigration offering. Certainly in Kemis case.... I cant see Jenrick outmanouvering on the right of this either
  • Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,315

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The site is described as a "heath," which in southern England are often under terrible pressure from developers and recreational disturbance. Very few left now. They can be precious habitats, and should be protected.
    I go there regularly. I have walked, cycled, and run, up and around it. There will be no housing pressure on that heath; and if they wanted to care for nature, they could always take over the adjacent gold course. ;)

    Next, it'll be banning people from it "to protect nature..."
    The National Trust removed a foot bridge to try and prevent local people from walking through a piece of marshland. As they have done for centuries.

    They then did the “a bridge will cost £250,000”. For a fucking plank.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust
    Inveterate back-coverers, the NT. Perhaps with cause, though.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,492
    Battlebus said:

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    Why now? Do they recognise Kemi as a policy free zone? Or are they worried about those on Reform's right? Or has someone at the BBC promised them as much airtime as they want despite the fact they are a (very) minor party at Westminster?
    I strongly suspect Nigel has heard rumblings that he might soon be the target of a coup. The Far-Right would have been emboldened by the recent Trafalgar Square rally and they've got access to some serious resources - Musk being only a part of it. This all smacks of Nigel shoring up his right flank in panic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,456
    edited September 22

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    But will Kemi (or Bobby J) follow them across?
    I doubt it 'Reform will abolish the right of migrants to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) - a permanent status which give migrants rights and access to benefits.

    Reform will also unveil plans to bar anyone other than British citizens from accessing welfare. Taken together the party claims their plans would save £234bn over several decades, though this figure is contested.' These are the type of policies only the far right parties like the BNP might have considered in the past, no way for migrants to gain citizenship. The benefits point also is somewhat unfair if migrants have contributed and paid NI and tax while working, they should at least be eligible for JSA and the state pension even if not UC.

    This is Reform doubling down on its anti immigration core vote. Much as via recognising a Palestinian state yesterday before Hamas released its hostages Starmer is doubling down on Labour's traditional leftwing core vote. We will see what the next polls show, should be some opportunity for the Tories to take the middle ground and on the former the LDs too (though Davey has also backed a Palestinian state now)
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    edited September 22
    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
  • HYUFD said:

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    But will Kemi (or Bobby J) follow them across?
    I doubt it 'Reform will abolish the right of migrants to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) - a permanent status which give migrants rights and access to benefits.

    Reform will also unveil plans to bar anyone other than British citizens from accessing welfare. Taken together the party claims their plans would save £234bn over several decades, though this figure is contested.' These are the type of policies only the far right parties like the BNP might have considered in the past, no way for migrants to gain citizenship and of course. The benefits point also is somewhat unfair if migrants have contributed and paid NI and tax while working, they should at least be eligible for JSA and the state pension even if not UC.

    This is Reform doubling down on its anti immigration core vote. Much as via recognising a Palestinian state yesterday before Hamas released its hostages Starmer is doubling down on Labour's traditional leftwing core vote. We will see what the next polls show, should be some opportunity for the Tories to take the middle ground and on the former the LDs too (though Davey has also backed a Palestinian state now)
    Good post
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,179

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The more lurid the personality, and the more egregious the opinions, the more "cut through" in a world of social media. Farage is learning from Trump, with a beery 'spoons take for the UK market.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    edited September 22

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,301
    Battlebus said:

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    Why now? Do they recognise Kemi as a policy free zone? Or are they worried about those on Reform's right? Or has someone at the BBC promised them as much airtime as they want despite the fact they are a (very) minor party at Westminster?
    Someone suggested the success of the Unite the Kingdom rally could have prompted it. Either it gave them the confidence to be bolder, or they thought there was a risk of being outflanked to their right, and they want to get Musk's support.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,074
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Morning, PB. I see Elon is now posting prayers on X. Evangelical Christianity, is coming our way.

    Elon Swaggart, or Jimmy Musk.

    It's complicated. Evangelicalism is a term like 'left' or 'right' in politics. Until you drill down into micro detail you have no idea what the term means in any individual case. (I am not one)

    Like the term 'right' there are in fact no interesting features of 'evangelicalism' which characterise all who use the label and at the same time distinguish them from other Christian identities.

    This is partly because the movement as a whole is an extraordinary amalgam of two incompatible theologies + various incompatible add ons.

    English evangelicals are almost all really nice decent people who love Jesus and try to do the square thing by their neighbour and are sometimes a bit boring and tend to think, wrongly, that they all agree with each other. they buy and read completely terrible books, funding an entire paper wasting industry.

    USA evangelicalism is a menace, deeply attached to race and politics, as we are seeing.
    There are some common traits, most evangelicals in the UK and USA for example tend to be Bible based and oppose same sex marriage and want to reduce abortions and take a traditional gender view of sexuality. There are also plenty of black evangelicals as well
    All Christians are 'Bible based', and the term is meaningless in separating out different Christian identities. It's just a slogan.

    To be conservative on same sex marriage, abortion and gender characterises Roman Catholics and many other identities as well as evangelicals. I suggest 'evangelical'as a label has not a single identifying 'USP'.
    I think he means “fundamentalist” by “bible based”
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300
    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The site is described as a "heath," which in southern England are often under terrible pressure from developers and recreational disturbance. Very few left now. They can be precious habitats, and should be protected.
    I go there regularly. I have walked, cycled, and run, up and around it. There will be no housing pressure on that heath; and if they wanted to care for nature, they could always take over the adjacent gold course. ;)

    Next, it'll be banning people from it "to protect nature..."
    The National Trust removed a foot bridge to try and prevent local people from walking through a piece of marshland. As they have done for centuries.

    They then did the “a bridge will cost £250,000”. For a fucking plank.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust
    Inveterate back-coverers, the NT. Perhaps with cause, though.
    My favourite of their fuckups was when they tried to evict the little old lady who was living in the flat at the top of a house donated by the family - usual thing of "for her lifetime" etc.

    A member of the Hoare family.

    Strangely, they ended up whining about how unfair it was that their opponents had such good lawyers.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The site is described as a "heath," which in southern England are often under terrible pressure from developers and recreational disturbance. Very few left now. They can be precious habitats, and should be protected.
    I go there regularly. I have walked, cycled, and run, up and around it. There will be no housing pressure on that heath; and if they wanted to care for nature, they could always take over the adjacent gold course. ;)

    Next, it'll be banning people from it "to protect nature..."
    People should be banned from a lot of places to protect nature.

    Whenever I read about money being spent at a wildlife site "to improve public access" I shake my head.
    If they don't want public access, they should get no public funding. And any land given to them with the expectation that public access should be provided should be given to an organisation that will.

    People have to live and work with nature. In extreme cases, nature can be safeguarded. But safeguarding all of nature will do nothing to help man's interaction with, and understanding of, nature.

    You'd just have a 21st century Kinder Trespass situation occurring, with the 'gamekeepers' employed not by landed gentry, but by faceless bureaucracies.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    I would be careful about the idea that remigration is unpopular to have a significant impact - as we saw with Trump people will vote for the face eating party believing that the leopard will be too busy to eat their face..
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,192

    Roger said:

    About as close as Alastair Campbell will ever get to complimenting Nigel Farage…
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hteDhCJWIf8

    45 seconds of TRiP clip most interesting for the throwaway criticism of government ministers.

    An interesting conspiracy theory on the clip after the Alastair Campbell one........

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
    I don't buy the full conspiracy but yes, Gaza is one of the issues, and Epstein another, on which the MAGA support ship is starting to founder. Some of the ICE raids too. It is interesting that Americans can applaud Trump for blocking illegal immigration while not wanting commando raids on shopkeepers with funny accents. (This may be a lesson for Reform too, where they are just starting to talk about deporting legal immigrants. People have an innate sense of fairness.)
    A more rounded look at Charlie Kirk. I don't either but hCK's interview early on in this clip is interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,164
    I think it is plausible that Reform might have pushed the envelope a bit too far with the ILR stuff.

    I think they can easily build a coalition of people who are very concerned about immigration and want to stop/severely limit further arrivals. I think once they turn to the issue of who is already here legally, that position is much more nuanced and I think this could cost them some, otherwise potential, support.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778

    AnneJGP said:

    I can never fathom why anyone who has committed themselves to one political party, even if only for career reasons, would change straight over to another party. In that situation, I would be spending at least 6 months as an independent.

    I think we underestimate the extent to which politicians are people and their relationships matter to them. A defection may be as much about a relationship someone has developed with a politician in another party that they find is surprisingly like-minded, then it is about ideology or career ambitions.
    I suppose it's always worth considering that politicians only support part of their party's platform, just like the rest of us. I usually vote Tory in general elections but it's unlikely I support 50% of their manifesto, just I agree with less of the other parties'. If I support 40% of the LibDems' manifesto then I am close to switching (and in fact I normally vote Lib Dem in local elections)

    You'd expect a MP to support a bit more of their party's platform, but platforms change and other parties may become better at representing their views
    My apolitical Russian mother's family left Russia in 1927 not because they passionately disagreed with the Revolution but because it was increasingly mandatory to support the current government line *which frequently changed*. They moved to Danzig/Gdansk, and found it was in some ways worse, with the future Gauleiter living next door and flying the Nazi flag (they put up a Soviet flag as a way of avoiding guilt by association). My grandfather, very talented in languages, started a second legal career in Berlin. They sheltered Jewish families in Gdansk and muddled on until 1937, when the trend was clear, and then used banking connections to move to Britain, except my grandfather, who started a third civil legal career in Argentina. The idea was that the family would join him once he was established, but WW2 intervened and stopped all civilian traffic; by the time it resumed the amicable separation was permanent. Fed up with Continental fanaticism, my mother loved the apolitical British and enthusiastically adopted British nationality, speakig English without an accent very quickly. She refused to teach me Russian, on the basis that bilingual kids didn't have a solld allegiance, and we were British, full stop. She voted Tory throughout her adult life on the basis that they were blessedly free of dogma - she revised her opinion on the arrival of Thatcher, and joined Chelsea Labour Party so as to support me, though she'd turn up to branch meetings wearing her fur coat and looking distinctly out of place. She bonded with the one genuinely working-class member, who recognised her genuine friendliness, but regarded the various earnest middle-class leftists with suspicion.

    Strange background! I've never disowned it, any more than I've disowned my teenage communist sympathies that reacted against my apolitical parents. We are all creatures of our environment.
    Fascinating, Nick. Have you ever thought of publishing your memoirs?
  • Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    My wife has just said this is terrible and many will be scared by such a shocking policy and should not be

    I would add - this is not the British way of treating people

    I want the boats stopped, sensible immigration, and to make sure everyone living and working in our communities do not feel threatened by a right wing mob copying Trump
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    Personally, I'd like to see a Palestinian state recognised.

    But I'm very wary about that state being run by Hamas, and there's no way I'd recognise it whilst they're still holding hostages.

    Others may differ.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,074
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Its a rather a self-righteous, hypocritical love though isn't it, given that according to their theology they believe most of their persecutors are destined for eternal torment in hell.
    I’m not sure I would have had it in me, at a memorial service for a loved one brutally murdered in public for his views, to espouse feelings of forgiveness towards the killer.

    Especially not in a stadium full of people including the President and most of the government.

    Of course it’s the right thing to say, but it takes a very special person to say the right thing in the aftermath of something so shocking.

    The court of law obviously takes a different view to the court of God, and this young man is going to spend the rest of his life in prison.
    It will be truly impressive if she asks the court not to execute him
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    eek said:

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    I would be careful about the idea that remigration is unpopular to have a significant impact - as we saw with Trump people will vote for the face eating party believing that the leopard will be too busy to eat their face..
    True, but I think hes gone too far for an election winning coalition of UK voters.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,492

    Battlebus said:

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    Why now? Do they recognise Kemi as a policy free zone? Or are they worried about those on Reform's right? Or has someone at the BBC promised them as much airtime as they want despite the fact they are a (very) minor party at Westminster?
    Someone suggested the success of the Unite the Kingdom rally could have prompted it. Either it gave them the confidence to be bolder, or they thought there was a risk of being outflanked to their right, and they want to get Musk's support.
    After the Unite the Kingdom rally Reform did start to look a bit old hat. It was notable that, even after Sir Keir's week of horror, Reform didn't really improve much in the polls. Large elements of the British Right were dissatisfied with Nigel as it was. After Tommy's triumph Nigel will have been put on notice and instructed very much to up his game.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,682

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    If they are told what a great guy he is they will support his one man party.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62zdpke8kko.amp
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Is there any issue with the very high lead oxide content ?
    I've never really seen a satisfactorily definitive answer to that.

    PB chemists ?
    Very quick scan suggests taking care and not being pregnant. It's probably ok as an odd treat but I'm not sure I'd use it everyday. The really important bit is not to store liquids in leaded glassware as leaching will occur over time, so the longer there is contact the worse it will be. So a leaded decanter is far worse than the odd drink from a leaded glass.
    I looked into this when I got into this antiques stuff - quite recently. I was tempted by antique silver tea pots (also cheap) but they really are a bit iffy. And potentially toxic. Unless maybe you can get an amazing perfect flawless example

    However the danger from lead glass is, in practise, absolutely minimal. I saw one estimate that said “you probably ingest more lead in one day living in london than a week of drinking wine from a Georgian glass” - lead piping is more the risk, these days, than air

    A modest danger might arise if you left wine for weeks in a glass or stored it for months in a decanter. Surprisingly, that’s not my style
    Colonel Mustard. Killed over several years by the lead piping. In the Bar.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    My wife has just said this is terrible and many will be scared by such a shocking policy and should not be

    I would add - this is not the British way of treating people

    I want the boats stopped, sensible immigration, and to make sure everyone living and working in our communities do not feel threatened by a right wing mob copying Trump
    You'll find no disagreement from me to any of that
  • Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    If they are told what a great guy he is they will support his one man party.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62zdpke8kko.amp
    Has Farage crossed the Rubicon today ?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,315
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300

    Personally, I'd like to see a Palestinian state recognised.

    But I'm very wary about that state being run by Hamas, and there's no way I'd recognise it whilst they're still holding hostages.

    Others may differ.

    IIRC the Palestinian State that is being recognised is that run by the Palestinian Authority. Which is run by Fatah. Whose representatives in Gaza were murdered by Hamas in their takeover.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,682

    Personally, I'd like to see a Palestinian state recognised.

    But I'm very wary about that state being run by Hamas, and there's no way I'd recognise it whilst they're still holding hostages.

    Others may differ.

    You do realise that Bibi tacitly "supported" and allowed overseas funding of Hamas in order to keep disorder in the West Bnk and undermine Abbas.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

    Note the source.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The site is described as a "heath," which in southern England are often under terrible pressure from developers and recreational disturbance. Very few left now. They can be precious habitats, and should be protected.
    I go there regularly. I have walked, cycled, and run, up and around it. There will be no housing pressure on that heath; and if they wanted to care for nature, they could always take over the adjacent gold course. ;)

    Next, it'll be banning people from it "to protect nature..."
    I'm a big right-to-roam advocate but if an environment is that rare and critical for biodiversity then yes, banning any access might well be justifiable. Capercaillie leks would be a good start; dogs would be blanket banned from all nature reserves if we were serious about conservation.
    Yes, I agree. In rare cases it may be needed to prevent access, particularly at certain times of year. But that's very different from total bans.

    In this case, there has been a kite festival on that site for decades. The organisers proposed no changes to the existing arrangements.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446

    I think it is plausible that Reform might have pushed the envelope a bit too far with the ILR stuff.

    I think they can easily build a coalition of people who are very concerned about immigration and want to stop/severely limit further arrivals. I think once they turn to the issue of who is already here legally, that position is much more nuanced and I think this could cost them some, otherwise potential, support.

    That depends on whether the media actually report the policy properly .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,719
    edited September 22
    This is yet more hysteria. Farage is not going to deport a single British subject or EU citizen. That’s what he says

    He is making it tougher for the Boriswave to stay. As he should do. Because otherwise our welfare state will collapse
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,634

    Battlebus said:

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    Why now? Do they recognise Kemi as a policy free zone? Or are they worried about those on Reform's right? Or has someone at the BBC promised them as much airtime as they want despite the fact they are a (very) minor party at Westminster?
    I strongly suspect Nigel has heard rumblings that he might soon be the target of a coup. The Far-Right would have been emboldened by the recent Trafalgar Square rally and they've got access to some serious resources - Musk being only a part of it. This all smacks of Nigel shoring up his right flank in panic.
    I worry about Kemi. Not even going to be a Truss.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,800
    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
    Getting a car because you have anxiety or are depressed is utterly ridiculous.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,719
    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
    Getting a car because you have anxiety or are depressed is utterly ridiculous.
    Or “alcoholic”. That’s ideal. What does an alcoholic really need? A car to drive around, flattening people
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,719

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    My wife has just said this is terrible and many will be scared by such a shocking policy and should not be

    I would add - this is not the British way of treating people

    I want the boats stopped, sensible immigration, and to make sure everyone living and working in our communities do not feel threatened by a right wing mob copying Trump
    You'll find no disagreement from me to any of that
    Would you give Indefinite Leave to Remain to the entire Boriswave? That seems to be your position. Farcical
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,985

    'The UK's now in a peculiar position of recognising Palestine, which barely functions as a political entity, yet we do not extend recognition to Taiwan or Somaliland, both of which have governments, legislatures and electoral systems, and are actually operative polities.'

    https://x.com/EliotWilson2/status/1969915565507555468

    In fairness to Labour/Starmer, the recognition of a state is by definition political and so not necessarily logical
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193
    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
    Did the story about 20% of new car sales being via Motability ever get stood up, or is there something else going on?

    Surely the government could start by limiting the scheme to cars made in the UK, so as not to be sending subsidy money abroad?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    Tories announce their candidate for Cheshire and Warrington mayor to be fought in 2027. Under STV that's one they'll have a reasonable shot at winning
    https://x.com/lukerobertblack/status/1970050520514535807?s=19
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781

    Nigel has certainly eschewed any type of Ming Vase strategy. This could be make-or-break time for him.

    Probably makes the DNV to Reform voters firmer converts but it will start to erode the 'lifelong tory' and grey vote as they recoil from the policy as too severe. It is also the sort of policy platform that, if heavily focused on in an election, will activate anti Reform tactical voting.

    They are not going to 'recoil'. They may prefer Kemi's ten year delay, they may not.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    Leon said:

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    My wife has just said this is terrible and many will be scared by such a shocking policy and should not be

    I would add - this is not the British way of treating people

    I want the boats stopped, sensible immigration, and to make sure everyone living and working in our communities do not feel threatened by a right wing mob copying Trump
    You'll find no disagreement from me to any of that
    Would you give Indefinite Leave to Remain to the entire Boriswave? That seems to be your position. Farcical
    I wouldn't be revisiting ILR already granted.
    Im open to a review of future ILR and who gets it etc
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,492
    Leon said:

    This is yet more hysteria. Farage is not going to deport a single British subject or EU citizen. That’s what he says

    He is making it tougher for the Boriswave to stay. As he should do. Because otherwise our welfare state will collapse

    Do you think Boris was an idiot? He invited those immigrants from further afield for perfectly legitimate economic reasons. This is the man who masterminded Brexit. National interest and correct courses of actions are pumped like blood through his very veins.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,214
    Leon said:

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    My wife has just said this is terrible and many will be scared by such a shocking policy and should not be

    I would add - this is not the British way of treating people

    I want the boats stopped, sensible immigration, and to make sure everyone living and working in our communities do not feel threatened by a right wing mob copying Trump
    You'll find no disagreement from me to any of that
    Would you give Indefinite Leave to Remain to the entire Boriswave? That seems to be your position. Farcical
    No. It’s insane. Only give it to people who will be net contributors
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446
    Reform are a cancer on the UK . After they’ve finished rounding up legal migrants and the angry mob still think their life is crap they’ll move onto the next group to use as scapegoats.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,734

    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over

    Better to talk tough then give in a smidge. I think this is like low balling an Estate Agent when bidding for a house, if the most you can afford is 800 you offer 700 in the hope of paying 750. Politicians throw out their low bid knowing they’ll get talked into being slightly more reasonable
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,682
    edited September 22
    Leon said:

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    My wife has just said this is terrible and many will be scared by such a shocking policy and should not be

    I would add - this is not the British way of treating people

    I want the boats stopped, sensible immigration, and to make sure everyone living and working in our communities do not feel threatened by a right wing mob copying Trump
    You'll find no disagreement from me to any of that
    Would you give Indefinite Leave to Remain to the entire Boriswave? That seems to be your position. Farcical
    Can we please refer to the Boriswave as the Starmerwave? What if Boris wants another shot at UKPM? Calling the Starmerwave the Boriswave won't help him.
  • Leon said:

    This is yet more hysteria. Farage is not going to deport a single British subject or EU citizen. That’s what he says

    He is making it tougher for the Boriswave to stay. As he should do. Because otherwise our welfare state will collapse

    Do you think Boris was an idiot? He invited those immigrants from further afield for perfectly legitimate economic reasons. This is the man who masterminded Brexit. National interest and correct courses of actions are pumped like blood through his very veins.
    It also includes Ukranians, Hong Kong citizens, and Afghans
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    edited September 22
    nico67 said:

    Reform are a cancer on the UK . After they’ve finished rounding up legal migrants and the angry mob still think their life is crap they’ll move onto the next group to use as scapegoats.

    That's the problem with leaving the EU, the easiest thing to blame (the EU) no longer existed (as an excuse) so they could no longer hide their latent racism...
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,177

    Leon said:

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    My wife has just said this is terrible and many will be scared by such a shocking policy and should not be

    I would add - this is not the British way of treating people

    I want the boats stopped, sensible immigration, and to make sure everyone living and working in our communities do not feel threatened by a right wing mob copying Trump
    You'll find no disagreement from me to any of that
    Would you give Indefinite Leave to Remain to the entire Boriswave? That seems to be your position. Farcical
    I wouldn't be revisiting ILR already granted.
    Im open to a review of future ILR and who gets it etc
    Yes agreed. Personally I thought the Hong Kong arrangements were absurdly generous but they were invited to come here with under certain arrangements (as were all of the many others with ILR) and it's unfair not to honour them.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,432

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Its a rather a self-righteous, hypocritical love though isn't it, given that according to their theology they believe most of their persecutors are destined for eternal torment in hell.
    I’m not sure I would have had it in me, at a memorial service for a loved one brutally murdered in public for his views, to espouse feelings of forgiveness towards the killer.

    Especially not in a stadium full of people including the President and most of the government.

    Of course it’s the right thing to say, but it takes a very special person to say the right thing in the aftermath of something so shocking.

    The court of law obviously takes a different view to the court of God, and this young man is going to spend the rest of his life in prison.
    It will be truly impressive if she asks the court not to execute him
    Why? That would mean he spends the rest of his days in a US prison. Execution would be kinder I would have thought.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,230
    It's the LibDem conference week so what does BBC Politics Show focus on in its opening segment?

    Why, Farage and Reform and their plans for ILR of course!

    The BBC has a death wish.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
    Did the story about 20% of new car sales being via Motability ever get stood up, or is there something else going on?

    Surely the government could start by limiting the scheme to cars made in the UK, so as not to be sending subsidy money abroad?
    We don't make any cars nowadays except Sunderland or very expensive ones.

    And cheap Nissan cars aren't made in the UK - the new Micra is built in Douai, France
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,719

    Leon said:

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    My wife has just said this is terrible and many will be scared by such a shocking policy and should not be

    I would add - this is not the British way of treating people

    I want the boats stopped, sensible immigration, and to make sure everyone living and working in our communities do not feel threatened by a right wing mob copying Trump
    You'll find no disagreement from me to any of that
    Would you give Indefinite Leave to Remain to the entire Boriswave? That seems to be your position. Farcical
    I wouldn't be revisiting ILR already granted.
    Im open to a review of future ILR and who gets it etc
    So you agree with the idea that some of the Boriswave must be deported. They won’t all get ILR. In which case your only dispute is the exact level of deportations, or the income level for new visas
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,510
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    About as close as Alastair Campbell will ever get to complimenting Nigel Farage…
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hteDhCJWIf8

    45 seconds of TRiP clip most interesting for the throwaway criticism of government ministers.

    An interesting conspiracy theory on the clip after the Alastair Campbell one........

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
    I don't buy the full conspiracy but yes, Gaza is one of the issues, and Epstein another, on which the MAGA support ship is starting to founder. Some of the ICE raids too. It is interesting that Americans can applaud Trump for blocking illegal immigration while not wanting commando raids on shopkeepers with funny accents. (This may be a lesson for Reform too, where they are just starting to talk about deporting legal immigrants. People have an innate sense of fairness.)
    A more rounded look at Charlie Kirk. I don't either but hCK's interview early on in this clip is interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
    While Erika Kirk spoke of forgiveness, Donald Trump spoke of hate.

  • TazTaz Posts: 21,214

    It's the LibDem conference week so what does BBC Politics Show focus on in its opening segment?

    Why, Farage and Reform and their plans for ILR of course!

    The BBC has a death wish.

    I hope it’s granted so I don’t have to pay a fortune to watch live TV
  • Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    If they are told what a great guy he is they will support his one man party.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62zdpke8kko.amp
    Has Farage crossed the Rubicon today ?
    One can but hope.

    But what's the right model- a Rubicon that you cross, or a frog that you boil?

    Farage has been pushing the edge of what's OK to say in civilised society for as long as he's been in politics. He's not the only one, but he has contributed to us being here.

    He has been a master of being shocking, but not too shocking. How does he respond now that others are playing the shock game, but with less sense of where the line is?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    My wife has just said this is terrible and many will be scared by such a shocking policy and should not be

    I would add - this is not the British way of treating people

    I want the boats stopped, sensible immigration, and to make sure everyone living and working in our communities do not feel threatened by a right wing mob copying Trump
    You'll find no disagreement from me to any of that
    Would you give Indefinite Leave to Remain to the entire Boriswave? That seems to be your position. Farcical
    I wouldn't be revisiting ILR already granted.
    Im open to a review of future ILR and who gets it etc
    So you agree with the idea that some of the Boriswave must be deported. They won’t all get ILR. In which case your only dispute is the exact level of deportations, or the income level for new visas
    Anyone who doesnt have ILR should leave once their visa expires if its not renewed or ILR when granted. We need a sensible policy around that. Im vehemently opposed to kicking out people told they can stay.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,214
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
    Did the story about 20% of new car sales being via Motability ever get stood up, or is there something else going on?

    Surely the government could start by limiting the scheme to cars made in the UK, so as not to be sending subsidy money abroad?
    We don't make any cars nowadays except Sunderland or very expensive ones.

    And cheap Nissan cars aren't made in the UK - the new Micra is built in Douai, France
    So what. They can still limit it if they choose and we make or assemble more than just Nissan and JLR ctap hete. Mini, Vauxhall, Toyota among others
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,682
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
    Did the story about 20% of new car sales being via Motability ever get stood up, or is there something else going on?

    Surely the government could start by limiting the scheme to cars made in the UK, so as not to be sending subsidy money abroad?
    Wasn't it over 30%?

    Motability was set up to replace the Invacar three wheeled scooter.

    Why does anyone need a choice? If a user needs a small car, a basic Corsa should suffice. If a larger car is required a Citroen Berlingo should do the trick. If one can afford to upgrade to a BMW M5 they don't need a Motability car.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    edited September 22
    He's been saying that since the year dot. He was a Farage fan boy until Yusuf was a shit to his wife
  • It's the LibDem conference week so what does BBC Politics Show focus on in its opening segment?

    Why, Farage and Reform and their plans for ILR of course!

    The BBC has a death wish.

    Didn't parties used to have a gentleman's agreement not to make big announcements during the other lot's conference? Seem to remember some muttering about something Brown did.

    Farage, of course, isn't a gentleman.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,315
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
    Did the story about 20% of new car sales being via Motability ever get stood up, or is there something else going on?

    Surely the government could start by limiting the scheme to cars made in the UK, so as not to be sending subsidy money abroad?
    Better to simply have Motability's VAT exemption taken away. Then only the cheap small cars could be afforded with the PIP payments anyway, and the government would get the usual VAT.

    (Allegedly, it's 50% in Northern Ireland. Hard to believe...)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,682

    He's been saying that since the year dot. He was a Farage fan boy until Yusuf was a shit to his wife
    Have you missed the thrust of his point? "Not one Conservative MP". Not even Suella?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,464
    I suffer from anxiety and depression. I don't even bother applying for benefits for it since unlike what tabloids would have you believe I know the chances of me getting it are a) remote & b) cause me so much stress as to make me worse.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,164

    It's the LibDem conference week so what does BBC Politics Show focus on in its opening segment?

    Why, Farage and Reform and their plans for ILR of course!

    The BBC has a death wish.

    Didn't parties used to have a gentleman's agreement not to make big announcements during the other lot's conference? Seem to remember some muttering about something Brown did.

    Farage, of course, isn't a gentleman.
    Ofcom do need to look again at how fair coverage is defined. I get the feeling that everyone is making it up as they go along at the moment. It’s easy to justify Reform getting a fair bit of coverage, IMHO, on the basis that they lead the opinion polls. But nobody seems to have the foggiest how to give balance to all the parties at the moment, hence throwing up all these concerns about coverage.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    Figures fall apart at initial contact with reality

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1970090020129169671?s=19
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781
    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    Reform are a cancer on the UK . After they’ve finished rounding up legal migrants and the angry mob still think their life is crap they’ll move onto the next group to use as scapegoats.

    That's the problem with leaving the EU, the easiest thing to blame (the EU) no longer existed (as an excuse) so they could no longer hide their latent racism...
    Can we just take the daft 'hateful racist' tag as read for anyone who suggests a serious policy about anything? I can feel brain cells ebbing away as I read.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,512
    edited September 22
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Its a rather a self-righteous, hypocritical love though isn't it, given that according to their theology they believe most of their persecutors are destined for eternal torment in hell.
    No, I get the impression (FWIW) that she's genuine, though I have a very different world view.
    The rest of the event was... somewhat different.
    I'm sure she was genuine and she believes all the 'love thy enemy' and 'salvation through Christ' evangelism.

    But that evangelism also believes that those who haven't turned to Jesus are destined for eternal torment.

    So her husband's killer gets a place in heaven if he 'discovers Jesus' while kind, moral, helpful people go to hell merely because they have the wrong or no religion.

    I'm not an admirer of 'salvationist' beliefs.
    Virtuous non believers who don't believe won't go to hell, they go to purgatory until they find salvation through Christ, certainly on RC doctrine.

    Only those who actively reject Christ and embraced evil and the Devil and all his works go to hell
    Is there a reserved section in Hell for bad people who pretend to be devout Christians?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,315

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
    Did the story about 20% of new car sales being via Motability ever get stood up, or is there something else going on?

    Surely the government could start by limiting the scheme to cars made in the UK, so as not to be sending subsidy money abroad?
    Wasn't it over 30%?

    Motability was set up to replace the Invacar three wheeled scooter.

    Why does anyone need a choice? If a user needs a small car, a basic Corsa should suffice. If a larger car is required a Citroen Berlingo should do the trick. If one can afford to upgrade to a BMW M5 they don't need a Motability car.
    PIP is not means tested.

    Because of the VAT exemption, the lease is less than half the price (46% per Motability themselves) so they can only afford the M5 by using motability's VAT exemption.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
    Did the story about 20% of new car sales being via Motability ever get stood up, or is there something else going on?

    Surely the government could start by limiting the scheme to cars made in the UK, so as not to be sending subsidy money abroad?
    Wasn't it over 30%?

    Motability was set up to replace the Invacar three wheeled scooter.

    Why does anyone need a choice? If a user needs a small car, a basic Corsa should suffice. If a larger car is required a Citroen Berlingo should do the trick. If one can afford to upgrade to a BMW M5 they don't need a Motability car.
    I don;t think so.

    Motobility have 815,000 leased vehicles looking at their 2024 report.
    The UK had 1,952,000 cars sold in 2024.

    Motobility leases are 3 to 5 years (depending on adaptions) so that to me looks like 8/57 so 14% of the market is motobility.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636

    He's been saying that since the year dot. He was a Farage fan boy until Yusuf was a shit to his wife
    Have you missed the thrust of his point? "Not one Conservative MP". Not even Suella?
    He answers that point in the replies 'its nothing personal blah blah blah'
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,719

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning

    Returning from town, switch on TV, and Farage is front, centre, and everywhere dominating the media over his unacceptable proposals over immigration

    He not only receives media coverage almost daily and answers every question put to him

    He may be speaking to millions but it is all so divisive

    And Ed Davey, is he having a conference as he hardly appears in the media ?

    Ed Davey coming onto the conference stage to the clown music was quite remarkable.

    Nigel is box office, particularly in the Trump era. The BBC and Sky love him. If Nigel becomes PM it will be in no small part due to ramping by the mainstream media. One can hope that Trump brings him down over the next three years.
    The UK electorate need to bring Farage down
    This is probably the start of them doing so. There will be stories of people who have been here years, friends, neighbours etc who might get deported,or families separated over the policy and a number of current Reformites will say 'hang on.......' and those not wedded to hardline immigration policy will likewise react to stop them.
    Remigration is not popular enough as a concept to win an election but its unpopular enough to stop someone winning one
    My wife has just said this is terrible and many will be scared by such a shocking policy and should not be

    I would add - this is not the British way of treating people

    I want the boats stopped, sensible immigration, and to make sure everyone living and working in our communities do not feel threatened by a right wing mob copying Trump
    You'll find no disagreement from me to any of that
    Would you give Indefinite Leave to Remain to the entire Boriswave? That seems to be your position. Farcical
    I wouldn't be revisiting ILR already granted.
    Im open to a review of future ILR and who gets it etc
    So you agree with the idea that some of the Boriswave must be deported. They won’t all get ILR. In which case your only dispute is the exact level of deportations, or the income level for new visas
    Anyone who doesnt have ILR should leave once their visa expires if its not renewed or ILR when granted. We need a sensible policy around that. Im vehemently opposed to kicking out people told they can stay.
    He’s not saying they are all going to be expelled. He’s saying that they will tighten the rules on the ILR status, so yes some will be deported

    It’s not nice. But then to my mind what mass migration has done to Britain is not nice. We’ve gone beyond nice, tragically - due to both main parties calamitously lying about and mishandling immigration

    Any solution to the problem is going to be unpleasant for some people, just as open borders have been very very unpleasant for a lot of Brits
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,859
    nico67 said:

    Reform are a cancer on the UK . After they’ve finished rounding up legal migrants and the angry mob still think their life is crap they’ll move onto the next group to use as scapegoats.

    Reform are a symptom not a cause. They articulate the opinions of a large chunk of the electorate, and if Reform disappeared tomorrow a substitute would appear before too long. Whether that would be on the right wing of the Conservatives, or grouped around Tommy Robinson, or something else, we do not know.

    But the root causes of Reform's rise won't have disappeared.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,315
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
    Did the story about 20% of new car sales being via Motability ever get stood up, or is there something else going on?

    Surely the government could start by limiting the scheme to cars made in the UK, so as not to be sending subsidy money abroad?
    Wasn't it over 30%?

    Motability was set up to replace the Invacar three wheeled scooter.

    Why does anyone need a choice? If a user needs a small car, a basic Corsa should suffice. If a larger car is required a Citroen Berlingo should do the trick. If one can afford to upgrade to a BMW M5 they don't need a Motability car.
    I don;t think so.

    Motobility have 815,000 leased vehicles looking at their 2024 report.
    The UK had 1,952,000 cars sold in 2024.

    Motobility leases are 3 to 5 years (depending on adaptions) so that to me looks like 8/57 so 14% of the market is motobility.
    Only about 7% of Motability cars are adapted. A further 5% are specialist wheelchair-accessible vehicles. The other 88% are just unmodified cars for half price.
  • Figures fall apart at initial contact with reality

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1970090020129169671?s=19

    Hasn't harmed Farage so far in his career.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    Reform are a cancer on the UK . After they’ve finished rounding up legal migrants and the angry mob still think their life is crap they’ll move onto the next group to use as scapegoats.

    That's the problem with leaving the EU, the easiest thing to blame (the EU) no longer existed (as an excuse) so they could no longer hide their latent racism...
    Can we just take the daft 'hateful racist' tag as read for anyone who suggests a serious policy about anything? I can feel brain cells ebbing away as I read.
    Remember that Farage’s immigration Brexit poster was that Turks would be allowed to come here. He knows his audience
This discussion has been closed.