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My 100/1 tip on Ed Miliband is looking good – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,055
    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Craig Murray jumping the shark

    '@CraigMurrayOrg
    A day I shall never forget.
    Speaking at the UN in Geneva in favour of Scottish Independence, I stated that the UK is a force for evil in the world.
    And people from all over the globe interrupted with spontaneous applause'
    https://x.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1968720543416287530

    O wad some Power the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion.
    Perhaps I'm reaching here, but I doubt if those who are applauding are the representatives of liberal democracies.

    The kinds of states that Craig Murray admires are the places that people escape from, rather than escape to.
    When the Berlin Wall fell, how come the human traffic was only in one direction?
    Murray firmly believes that Mossad (who else?) were behind the Salisbury poisonings. It goes without saying that he is totally opposed to assisting Ukraine.
    Candace Owens is already saying that Mossad killed Charlie Kirk.

    There’s a bunch of crazies out there who wish to blame Israel for everything. They’ve been accused of 1000 of the last 10 things they’ve done.
    That's the thing about blaming the Jews for everything. Not only are they extremely evil, they are extremely effective. There is no coup that they cannot pull off, and governments danc3e to their tune.
    Same as us really. We're able to do anything and be everywhere. We're currently cutting undersea cables in the Baltic, using drones to attack Russia and the late Queen ruled everything and everyone danced to her tune..... or so the Russians would have you believe.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,455
    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Craig Murray jumping the shark

    '@CraigMurrayOrg
    A day I shall never forget.
    Speaking at the UN in Geneva in favour of Scottish Independence, I stated that the UK is a force for evil in the world.
    And people from all over the globe interrupted with spontaneous applause'
    https://x.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1968720543416287530

    O wad some Power the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion.
    Perhaps I'm reaching here, but I doubt if those who are applauding are the representatives of liberal democracies.

    The kinds of states that Craig Murray admires are the places that people escape from, rather than escape to.
    When the Berlin Wall fell, how come the human traffic was only in one direction?
    Murray firmly believes that Mossad (who else?) were behind the Salisbury poisonings. It goes without saying that he is totally opposed to assisting Ukraine.
    Candace Owens is already saying that Mossad killed Charlie Kirk.

    There’s a bunch of crazies out there who wish to blame Israel for everything. They’ve been accused of 1000 of the last 10 things they’ve done.
    That's the thing about blaming the Jews for everything. Not only are they extremely evil, they are extremely effective. There is no coup that they cannot pull off, and governments danc3e to their tune.
    I think anti semitism is still a lot more prevalent than we'd like to have thought.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,301

    kle4 said:

    Ed M's ambition and persistence, sticking around at the top of the party after defeat and still hunting for the top job 10 years on, demonstrates why he had 10x more leadership skills than David.

    He's yesterday's man though, he needs to let it go.

    I said the same about Trump, but there he is, President again.
    It's always said about that, that you can't 'go back' or you can't 'do a Wilson'. But I wonder if the autum of 1970 whether people had written Wilson off being PM again, but there you were, four years later and he was.

    I'm biased though. I like Ed Miliband and think he would've made a decent (not great) Prime Minister. He might still though I think it's unlikely now.
    Because of the change in political culture since Wilson’s time it’s much more likely in this country that we see GE’s as the ultimate verdict on a leader now, and being a GE loser is more or less the mark of Cain. Back in the day the political culture was that leaders were first among equals, figureheads of their wider movement, and serving pretty much at their pleasure until the men in grey suits had a polite word and let them know it was time for the new leader to ‘emerge’.

    That said, its not inconceivable for someone to stand as leader in an election again, despite losing one already (indeed, we have a practical example of this from only six years ago in Corbyn). But I think there does have to be an unusual set of circumstances enabling it. In Corbyn’s case, he surprised significantly on the upside electorally - the first time around. For Miliband, he was the complete opposite. We all thought he stood a chance of at least delivering largest party status in 2015, even if a majority looked like a stretch.
    Cameron gave us three referendums, and they each destroyed the leadership of the then three largest parties.

    The lost AV referendum signified the death knell for Nick Clegg. The Brexit referendum saw off David Cameron. Ed Miliband was undone by the Indyref.

    Had Miliband not lost 40 MPs in Scotland then he would have gained seats overall, and may have won more seats against the Tories in England without the threat of being in thrall to the SNP.

    He might just have been able to prevent Cameron from winning a majority and would have been snapping at the heels of a minority administration.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    Tip I've just seen and never seen before (so will post here).

    if you use Gmail visiting https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#sub will show you all the mailing lists you are subscribed to and even has an unsubscribe button alongside each one to click on.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,229
    The rentboy / arsonist trial is scheduled for late April. Locals in the middle of it on 6th May. Starmer just needs to hold on long enough for the World Cup in 11th June and he’s probably safe until conference season again.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,055
    edited September 19

    "Is the US entering a new era of McCarthyism"?

    https://www.ft.com/content/54bee7cc-b0b4-4acb-9776-9ad6d39f3400

    No, its entering a new era of Goebbelsism. The parallels between the US and 1933 Germany are clear.

    Thats over the top. If anyone takes the time to actually study Nazi Germany then they would see that. An easy one is this - Trump, whatever one may think of him, actually won the position in a vote. Hitler didn't.

    Which political parties have the US government proscribed? Where are the concentration camps? Where are the brown shirts - the Republican party militia?

    There is a free press in the States. Jimmy Kimmel notwithstanding. As far as I was aware its the UK that arrests people for posts on X, not the US.
    It isn't over the top. Hitler won the election was duly appointed Chancellor leading a minority government.

    I am equating this to the Reichstag fire. Your questions are about what happened after Hitler seized total power - a while after the fire. But there are plenty of signs. The brownshirts are ICE. The concentration camps were established after the fire, but in the US that they are already creating camps for illegals (alligator alcatraz etc).

    As for free press, there is not. Trump sues any media outlet that speak against him. And they are arresting people at the border for memes.
    The brownshirts were a party militia that had murdered hundreds in fighting over the previous few years. ICE are an department of the US government. I don't recall them brawling with Democrats at political rallies. Concentration camps were for political opponents, and in the early stages were often set up up by the local SA, often in collusion with local police.

    America has become a very litigious society. The home of suing a food seller for selling you a hot drink. There is free speech there. Its fun to make comparisions with the Nazis but its ludicrous too.
    Sorry if you dislike the comparions. In no way is anyone saying that history is repeating itself - America today is not Germany 1933. But the pattern of behaviour is there. Doing the same shit in a different way. Its absurd to claim that America is the land of free speech when the President is suing a major media outlet for their crime of not backing him. They are actively trying to silence and subjugate it just as they are bending the constitution to suit their will.

    At which point will you accept this is authoritarianism? They are going to lose power in the midterms. Which is why they are engineering a way around that.
    Needs another like. The posts saying Trump won't be President on 21st January 2029 need to step back a little and look at things happening in the United States.
    I agree, he probably won't be, but I think that's because he'll be dead.

    But if he's alive and is still sufficiently robust in body and mind (I think he'll either be dead, or so senile he can't function) then I wouldn't say their is zero chance of him still being US President. I'd probably put it about 40%.

    Honestly though, I think JD Vance will be President then.... and probably President on 21st January 2039 too........
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,455

    Two things I do not believe will happen.

    1) Emma Raducanu ever winning a Slam again
    2) Donald Trump being in office past Jan 2029

    The only way Trump isn't in office in 2029 is if he dies first. Anyone who thinks he'll just step down as required by the constitution is naive to put it mildly.
    Now he's immune from any practical legal consequences even for non-presidential conduct (thanks SC!) he should, one hopes, feel less inclined to cause another crisis. The next GOP candidate will be his pick after all.
  • Two things I do not believe will happen.

    1) Emma Raducanu ever winning a Slam again
    2) Donald Trump being in office past Jan 2029

    The only way Trump isn't in office in 2029 is if he dies first. Anyone who thinks he'll just step down as required by the constitution is naive to put it mildly.
    Presidents don't step down, they're elected for a fixed term of office.

    So the next President will be elected in November 2028 and will take office in January 2029.

    Trump can blockade himself in the White House and huff and puff all he wants.

    And nobody will pay any attention beyond him being evicted and taken off to a care home.
    I think you are badly underestimating how Trump has corrupted the US. He has spent his entire time in office doing a succession of things that are blatantly not legal, but who stops him? Nobody.

    He has millions of supporters who seem to be prepared to back him come what may, and a nascent private goon squad in ICE. If he decides there's not going to be elections in 2028 because 'the dems are a threat to America', who stops him from doing that? What happens when Republican governors agree and refuse to permit their states to take part in a presidential election?

    The only way to remove him is for the military to step in a take control temporarily, but I'm very sceptical they'll do that because he's well on the way to purging any senior commanders who'll stand up to him.

    Much more likely Republican run states continue to accept Trump as President but others will run an election that returns a Democrat president, and the US effectively splits in two. Trump will do this because both he and his associates know what happens to them the moment a Democrat president takes power - a process starts that will see many of them end up in jail cells.

    I sincerely hope you're right and I'm not, but the US is in a terrible place right now and it's getting worse every day.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,985
    https://xcancel.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1968776429849497893#m
    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 16% (-3)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (+1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 12% (-)

    Changes from 10th September
    [Find Out Now, 17-18th September, N=4,795]

    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1968783752852611082#m

    image
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,195
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Craig Murray jumping the shark

    '@CraigMurrayOrg
    A day I shall never forget.
    Speaking at the UN in Geneva in favour of Scottish Independence, I stated that the UK is a force for evil in the world.
    And people from all over the globe interrupted with spontaneous applause'
    https://x.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1968720543416287530

    O wad some Power the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion.
    Perhaps I'm reaching here, but I doubt if those who are applauding are the representatives of liberal democracies.

    The kinds of states that Craig Murray admires are the places that people escape from, rather than escape to.
    When the Berlin Wall fell, how come the human traffic was only in one direction?
    Murray firmly believes that Mossad (who else?) were behind the Salisbury poisonings. It goes without saying that he is totally opposed to assisting Ukraine.
    Candace Owens is already saying that Mossad killed Charlie Kirk.

    There’s a bunch of crazies out there who wish to blame Israel for everything. They’ve been accused of 1000 of the last 10 things they’ve done.
    That's the thing about blaming the Jews for everything. Not only are they extremely evil, they are extremely effective. There is no coup that they cannot pull off, and governments danc3e to their tune.
    I think anti semitism is still a lot more prevalent than we'd like to have thought.
    That’s been very obvious in the past two years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JimVandeHei

    🚨🚨 AOC and her team are positioning her to run for president or the U.S. Senate in 2028, according to people familiar with her operation.

    https://x.com/JimVandeHei/status/1968985717289169230

    President or Senate? There’s a big difference there, and almost no chance a Representative makes a Presidential run.
    James Garfield would beg to differ.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,455

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Craig Murray jumping the shark

    '@CraigMurrayOrg
    A day I shall never forget.
    Speaking at the UN in Geneva in favour of Scottish Independence, I stated that the UK is a force for evil in the world.
    And people from all over the globe interrupted with spontaneous applause'
    https://x.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1968720543416287530

    O wad some Power the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion.
    Perhaps I'm reaching here, but I doubt if those who are applauding are the representatives of liberal democracies.

    The kinds of states that Craig Murray admires are the places that people escape from, rather than escape to.
    When the Berlin Wall fell, how come the human traffic was only in one direction?
    Murray firmly believes that Mossad (who else?) were behind the Salisbury poisonings. It goes without saying that he is totally opposed to assisting Ukraine.
    Candace Owens is already saying that Mossad killed Charlie Kirk.

    There’s a bunch of crazies out there who wish to blame Israel for everything. They’ve been accused of 1000 of the last 10 things they’ve done.
    That's the thing about blaming the Jews for everything. Not only are they extremely evil, they are extremely effective. There is no coup that they cannot pull off, and governments danc3e to their tune.
    Same as us really. We're able to do anything and be everywhere. We're currently cutting undersea cables in the Baltic, using drones to attack Russia and the late Queen ruled everything and everyone danced to her tune..... or so the Russians would have you believe.
    I maintain they only blame us for stuff so they don't appear to directly blame America for everything. As their main opponent they want to be more selective in their USA attacks.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,055
    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Foss said:

    Cookie said:

    OT I tried Burger King's waygu burger. After its mixed reviews, to put it kindly, I nixed the rocket and mayo and added a slice of cheese. Verdict: good; better than their ordinary burgers; £11 is a lot though.

    And the burger comes in a posh-looking cardboard box.
    I had some wagyu sausages, as they were on offer. Quite nice beef sausages but I wouldn't pay the normal premium.

    (Whatever happened to beef sausages? When I was a kid, they were almost as prominent as pork. Now you rarely see them. I suspect burgers are much more popular so all the beef offcuts go into them. Waitrose do beef & black pepper chipolatas, which I used to like, but I think they have gone skinless and in general I think they have lowered the quality of their "standard" range of sausages rather than put the price up)
    Beef sausages are all over the place and in many takeaways the only option (halal, you see).

    I'd agree about the drop in quality to keep the price down. I've stopped buying meat pies for that very reason.
    Maybe I don't live in an ethnically diverse enough area, but I don't often see beef sausages - Waitrose for example only used to have the one item, and that was only available in chipolata. They have now added the wagyu sausages which I will get if I see them on offer. Whereas loads of different pork sausages. I am going to pop into Sainsburys today so I will have a look. I do need to start buying butchers' sausages but my local butcher's sausages are expensive but not that good. We do have a couple of specialist sausage butchers, but they are a few miles away and, as ever, I can't be arsed.
    Tesco and Sainsburys used to do fantastic premium own brand sausages. They both changed their recipes (specifically, I think, of the skin) for reasons I can't remember, about 2 or 3 years ago, and are now much worse.
    Morrisons are pretty good. GF too...
    They sell girl friends?
    For a few weeks I'm experimenting with Hello Fresh, and so far ... not bad, as one component of a mix. The obviously dodgy thing is tiny bits of lots of ingredients in sealed plastic packaging.

    They don't do girlfriends, either.
    I liked Hello Fresh, but a neighbour rightly pointed out the level of plastic waste was astronomical. Box made of cardboard, but everything inside was in plastic bags, even the frozen water bags to keep things cool.
    I'm not sure I could've lived with myself carrying that on. And I'm not sure everything that was in plastic needed to be in plastic.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,195

    "Is the US entering a new era of McCarthyism"?

    https://www.ft.com/content/54bee7cc-b0b4-4acb-9776-9ad6d39f3400

    No, its entering a new era of Goebbelsism. The parallels between the US and 1933 Germany are clear.

    Thats over the top. If anyone takes the time to actually study Nazi Germany then they would see that. An easy one is this - Trump, whatever one may think of him, actually won the position in a vote. Hitler didn't.

    Which political parties have the US government proscribed? Where are the concentration camps? Where are the brown shirts - the Republican party militia?

    There is a free press in the States. Jimmy Kimmel notwithstanding. As far as I was aware its the UK that arrests people for posts on X, not the US.
    It isn't over the top. Hitler won the election was duly appointed Chancellor leading a minority government.

    I am equating this to the Reichstag fire. Your questions are about what happened after Hitler seized total power - a while after the fire. But there are plenty of signs. The brownshirts are ICE. The concentration camps were established after the fire, but in the US that they are already creating camps for illegals (alligator alcatraz etc).

    As for free press, there is not. Trump sues any media outlet that speak against him. And they are arresting people at the border for memes.
    The brownshirts were a party militia that had murdered hundreds in fighting over the previous few years. ICE are an department of the US government. I don't recall them brawling with Democrats at political rallies. Concentration camps were for political opponents, and in the early stages were often set up up by the local SA, often in collusion with local police.

    America has become a very litigious society. The home of suing a food seller for selling you a hot drink. There is free speech there. Its fun to make comparisions with the Nazis but its ludicrous too.
    Sorry if you dislike the comparions. In no way is anyone saying that history is repeating itself - America today is not Germany 1933. But the pattern of behaviour is there. Doing the same shit in a different way. Its absurd to claim that America is the land of free speech when the President is suing a major media outlet for their crime of not backing him. They are actively trying to silence and subjugate it just as they are bending the constitution to suit their will.

    At which point will you accept this is authoritarianism? They are going to lose power in the midterms. Which is why they are engineering a way around that.
    Needs another like. The posts saying Trump won't be President on 21st January 2029 need to step back a little and look at things happening in the United States.
    I agree, he probably won't be, but I think that's because he'll be dead.

    But if he's alive and is still sufficiently robust in body and mind (I think he'll either be dead, or so senile he can't function) then I wouldn't say their is zero chance of him still being US President. I'd probably put it about 40%.

    Honestly though, I think JD Vance will be President then.... and probably President on 21st January 2039 too........
    You reckon 40%, can I offer you £100 at 2/1 (33%)..?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,455
    viewcode said:

    https://xcancel.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1968776429849497893#m
    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 16% (-3)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (+1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 12% (-)

    Changes from 10th September
    [Find Out Now, 17-18th September, N=4,795]

    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1968783752852611082#m

    image

    That parts of Scotland supposedly remain Tory in a wipeout is very funny given where they were 97 onwards.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,055
    kle4 said:

    Two things I do not believe will happen.

    1) Emma Raducanu ever winning a Slam again
    2) Donald Trump being in office past Jan 2029

    The only way Trump isn't in office in 2029 is if he dies first. Anyone who thinks he'll just step down as required by the constitution is naive to put it mildly.
    Now he's immune from any practical legal consequences even for non-presidential conduct (thanks SC!) he should, one hopes, feel less inclined to cause another crisis. The next GOP candidate will be his pick after all.
    I agree. And his pick for the GOP candidate will be...... himself!
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,778
    edited September 19
    viewcode said:

    https://xcancel.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1968776429849497893#m
    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 16% (-3)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (+1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 12% (-)

    Changes from 10th September
    [Find Out Now, 17-18th September, N=4,795]

    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1968783752852611082#m

    image

    Liverpool? Lol.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    edited September 19
    US* venture cap guy on British startup culture.

    "revealingly innocent"

    "But we don't know if it's going to work yet."

    — British founder after I offered to invest more in her startup

    (I explained that funding things you don't know are going to work is what seed investing consists of.)

    https://x.com/paulg/status/1969006114470601130

    *Paul Graham was, of course, born in the UK.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Craig Murray jumping the shark

    '@CraigMurrayOrg
    A day I shall never forget.
    Speaking at the UN in Geneva in favour of Scottish Independence, I stated that the UK is a force for evil in the world.
    And people from all over the globe interrupted with spontaneous applause'
    https://x.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1968720543416287530

    O wad some Power the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion.
    Perhaps I'm reaching here, but I doubt if those who are applauding are the representatives of liberal democracies.

    The kinds of states that Craig Murray admires are the places that people escape from, rather than escape to.
    When the Berlin Wall fell, how come the human traffic was only in one direction?
    Murray firmly believes that Mossad (who else?) were behind the Salisbury poisonings. It goes without saying that he is totally opposed to assisting Ukraine.
    Candace Owens is already saying that Mossad killed Charlie Kirk.

    There’s a bunch of crazies out there who wish to blame Israel for everything. They’ve been accused of 1000 of the last 10 things they’ve done.
    That's the thing about blaming the Jews for everything. Not only are they extremely evil, they are extremely effective. There is no coup that they cannot pull off, and governments danc3e to their tune.
    Not being able to destroy Hamas or free their hostages 60,000+ dead civilians later is the starkest refutation of that view. Still, they almost won Eurovision!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,584

    Two things I do not believe will happen.

    1) Emma Raducanu ever winning a Slam again
    2) Donald Trump being in office past Jan 2029

    You may be right about both. But at least Raducanu has won more Slams than all her detractors combined. And she is a role model for anyone who needs reminding that you take your opportunities when you can because they don't hang around waiting for you to be ready, and monetise it while you can.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,546
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://xcancel.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1968776429849497893#m
    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 16% (-3)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (+1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 12% (-)

    Changes from 10th September
    [Find Out Now, 17-18th September, N=4,795]

    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1968783752852611082#m

    image

    That parts of Scotland supposedly remain Tory in a wipeout is very funny given where they were 97 onwards.
    It also has Cambridge going Reform. Which I somewhat doubt.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,055
    Sandpit said:


    You reckon 40%, can I offer you £100 at 2/1 (33%)..?

    I'm on this site for the politics. I don't bet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,456
    viewcode said:

    https://xcancel.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1968776429849497893#m
    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 16% (-3)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (+1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 12% (-)

    Changes from 10th September
    [Find Out Now, 17-18th September, N=4,795]

    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1968783752852611082#m

    image

    Labour plus Greens plus LDs on 41% combined to 34% for Reform, plenty of room for tactical voting once we get closer to the election.

    The Tories could also have a new leader who can win back some voters lost to Reform
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,055
    Foss said:

    viewcode said:

    https://xcancel.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1968776429849497893#m
    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 16% (-3)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (+1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 12% (-)

    Changes from 10th September
    [Find Out Now, 17-18th September, N=4,795]

    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1968783752852611082#m

    image

    Liverpool? Lol.
    I might vote Labour next time. Genuinely concerned for Bootle.....................
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300



    Nigelb said:

    EMICIPM?

    I can't see how. Starmer, for all his faults, has a huge majority. And time. If he goes, what does Milliband bring to the table? He is comprehensively stupid on energy, and consistently wrong. Part of the reasons for high energy costs is that we tie to gas, part is the net zero pricing added in by government.
    As I understand it, gas prices set the price of electricity in the UK (as the most expensive type of generation needed to meet demand) because of the marginal pricing system used in the energy market. So my question would be: Is there a viable alternative to a marginal pricing system? If so, why aren't we using it?
    Ask Ed.
    Ed seems to be religiously committed to "high prices to drive down consumption". You see similar stuff for water.

    What happens when solar plus enough battery to create 24 hour power gets significantly cheaper than other methods (on the verge of happening) doesn't seem to have been considered.

    Because it won't stop there. It will get cheaper.
    My assumption was that the profits drive renewable investments.
    Oh it does.

    But there’s some crazy prices down the road. I’m talking aluminium and titanium smelting prices…
  • isamisam Posts: 42,734
    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    algarkirk said:

    Two things I do not believe will happen.

    1) Emma Raducanu ever winning a Slam again
    2) Donald Trump being in office past Jan 2029

    You may be right about both. But at least Raducanu has won more Slams than all her detractors combined. And she is a role model for anyone who needs reminding that you take your opportunities when you can because they don't hang around waiting for you to be ready, and monetise it while you can.
    You've ruled out that I'm Jaimie Murray then? :D I am a huge fan of her, just don't think she has the capacity to go to the very very top. I hope I'm wrong.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,195
    New EU sanctions on Russian imports.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1969017858383392972
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300
    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    But is he a Protestant Atheist, to be sure?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,195

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    But is he a Protestant Atheist, to be sure?
    A bit like the Pakistani kebab shop worker in Belfast, who was asked whether he was a Catholic Muslim or a Protestant Muslim?
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,055

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    But is he a Protestant Atheist, to be sure?
    I can't recall. Was it here or elsewhere? I think in this country you can (somehow) be both.
    I'm an atheist. Blackness awaits me (finally a chance to catch up on some sleep!). But my wife is CoE and we go to Church and I help out at the local Christian charity.......

    I am an atheist..... but.........
    I think our religion hasn't taken on the nationalistic leanings the United States has, and the level of grift that so called 'pastors' in the US has. Supply Side Jesus is a wholly US idea, that I think hasn't imported at all in the UK.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,208
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    https://xcancel.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1968776429849497893#m
    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 16% (-3)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (+1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 12% (-)

    Changes from 10th September
    [Find Out Now, 17-18th September, N=4,795]

    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1968783752852611082#m

    image

    Labour plus Greens plus LDs on 41% combined to 34% for Reform, plenty of room for tactical voting once we get closer to the election.

    The Tories could also have a new leader who can win back some voters lost to Reform
    ...

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300
    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    But is he a Protestant Atheist, to be sure?
    A bit like the Pakistani kebab shop worker in Belfast, who was asked whether he was a Catholic Muslim or a Protestant Muslim?
    Or the actual classification by the Police Service of Northern Ireland of recruits.

    Which led to the Protestant Catholic…
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,778
    edited September 19
    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,334

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    What's the most alarming thing to me is that 2025 looks like it will have higher borrowing than 2021 which was a full pandemic year where tax receipts were down and we had huge subsidy schemes running. Labour have, in just one year, complete blown the budget to the extent that we're going to borrow more than when the government was paying millions furlough money.

    It's a complete shit show, Liz Truss in slow motion.

    Where is all the extra borrowing going? NHS, debt interest, ?
    Some of it is debt interest, but mostly it's just payroll, welfare and pensions.
    We're in a proper bloody mess. I'm sticking with the fundamentals being broken:
    Cost of living crisis means less cash circulating which kills growth
    Public services are simultaneously vastly expensive and delivering crap service
    Society is fraying at the edges

    Lets start with the cost of living - two massive drivers are energy and housing. We can't immediately fix housing - we lack both the workforce and the bricks to build sufficient housing even if people could afford to buy them. But we could declare war on the problem to at least get started.
    We can do something about energy. Our leccy bills are absurdly high because we almost entirely set the price on gas, and as we have minimal storage its the spot price. Despite only using gas a quarter of the time for actual generation, it sets the price all the time. So do as Spain did and decouple. Easier to do outside the EU. Set the price based on what we are actually using for power generation and bills drop instantly. Which makes *everything* cheaper.

    Starmer and the team are rabbits in the headlights.
    The big thing driving current inflation is actually shop/food/retail prices. It's why we're out of step with the rest of Europe on inflation now as the 2022-2024 high inflation period when basically the main measures of inflation were aligned across Europe and in the US.

    No, we're in a mess of the government's making. They decided to put taxes up on businesses and lie to themselves and the public that those businesses wouldn't simply put prices up to recover the money.

    Simply put, Labour fucked the economy. They came into power, they've maxed out the national credit card and now have no clue how to pay it off because the magic "growth" they kept banging on about before the election hasn't materialised. I mean with £40bn of tax rises any idiot could have told them that would be the case but apparently the chancellor worked for a bank.

    They own this mess and we're all going to pay the price for their failure. Taxes will keep going up and will yield less and less while growth slows to a crawl. The only way out is spending cuts, payroll cuts, pension cuts, welfare cuts. Not only will that save money immediately for the state, it will also bring aggregate demand down helping to bring inflation down. We can no longer pay people to sit at home doing nothing, whether that's the "wfh" public sector workers, early retirees taking massive defined benefit pensions or the "mentally" ill who get coaching to say the right things to enable them to receive a lifetime of benefits without needing to look for work.

    What you're talking about may magic up an extra 0.1% on GDP, even if it does double that it doesn't change the overall picture. The country is heading towards a completely unsustainable debt scenario, our debt is increasingly being held by hedge funds rather than pension funds, long dated gilt yields are already top high and they're rising. The government hasn't got a clue how to bring the deficit down and tax increases aren't yielding anywhere near what was predicted by the OBR because they're already too high.
    Ideally, we will get a government that is able to pursue meaningful reform in the coming years.

    My fear is that we won’t, and as a result we will be forced into it by the markets. That won’t be pretty and things will have to be much more unpleasant the longer they are left.

    In either case, there will be severe societal difficulties. But it will be far worse if it’s the latter option.

    There is a place for government spending. Unfortunately, it’s not in the places people want it. It needs to be used to fix acute problems (skills shortages, defence, investment in energy infrastructure etc). It can’t be used to subsidise pensions, healthcare and welfare in the way that people expect.
    I don't buy this catastrophising. We could solve most problems by a modest rise in basic taxes that would still leave us only in the second quartile of OECD nations by tax to GDP ratio. This is not a severe societal difficulty. It is only a severe psephological difficulty.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,634
    Have we mentioned global warming. Come in, the water's fine.




  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,630

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    But is he a Protestant Atheist, to be sure?
    No, an atheist Catholic (non-Roman), according to C of E doctrine. Protestants tend to be Dissenters and other disloyal, king-killing, sectarians.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,630
    edited September 19

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    But is he a Protestant Atheist, to be sure?
    I can't recall. Was it here or elsewhere? I think in this country you can (somehow) be both.
    I'm an atheist. Blackness awaits me (finally a chance to catch up on some sleep!). But my wife is CoE and we go to Church and I help out at the local Christian charity.......

    I am an atheist..... but.........
    I think our religion hasn't taken on the nationalistic leanings the United States has, and the level of grift that so called 'pastors' in the US has. Supply Side Jesus is a wholly US idea, that I think hasn't imported at all in the UK.
    Was a long time ago, but how about the Sermon on the Mound?

    [not a typo but Mrs T's notorious oration to the General Assembly of the Kirk of Scotland, whose Assembly Hall is at the top of the [Earthen] Mound, the artifical hill/slope cutting the Nor' Loch glacial ravine in two in Princes Street Gardens in Edinburgh]

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    CofE non believer, then ?

    He's got plenty of company, if so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,456
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    https://xcancel.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1968776429849497893#m
    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 16% (-3)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (+1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 12% (-)

    Changes from 10th September
    [Find Out Now, 17-18th September, N=4,795]

    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1968783752852611082#m

    image

    Labour plus Greens plus LDs on 41% combined to 34% for Reform, plenty of room for tactical voting once we get closer to the election.

    The Tories could also have a new leader who can win back some voters lost to Reform
    ...

    Cleverly had a 14% lead with all voters over Kemi at the time of the Tory leadership contest for example as to who would be most likely to be PM.

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/public-more-likely-see-james-cleverly-pm-other-conservative-leadership-candidates-none-score-highly

    A Conhome poll this summer also found Cleverly the favoured replacement from Tory MPs for Badenoch amongst Tory 2024 voters, though Reform voters preferred Jenrick.
    https://conservativehome.com/2025/08/07/the-return-of-boris-tory-voters-are-looking-back-to-the-future/

    As a former Home Secretary he could be the Michael Howard to Kemi's IDS

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,301
    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,456

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://xcancel.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1968776429849497893#m
    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 16% (-3)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (+1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 12% (-)

    Changes from 10th September
    [Find Out Now, 17-18th September, N=4,795]

    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1968783752852611082#m

    image

    That parts of Scotland supposedly remain Tory in a wipeout is very funny given where they were 97 onwards.
    It also has Cambridge going Reform. Which I somewhat doubt.
    You could have produced a similar landslide map for Poilievre's Conservatives in Canada until accounting for the tactical voting that happened at the election (and new Liberal PM and leader)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,546
    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Church is a community as well as a religion. I'm agnostic (not atheist), and I see myself as culturally Christian, in that I've been raised in a community and culture that is Christian. I went to school and celebrated Christian festivals, take time off at Christmas, know many of the Christian stories, have read the bible etc. I even pray often.

    It's just that I've yet to find a Christian church that is worth joining. And since @HYUFD told me I'm not welcome at his church, that's another option out. ;)

    People's relationship with God, religion and church is complex.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    This sort of calculation is possibly part of why she lost ?

    Harris says Buttigieg ‘first choice’ for VP in 2024 but proved ‘too risky’
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5509514-harris-buttigieg-2024-election-running-mate/

    “Well, I was surprised when I read that — I just believe in giving Americans more credit,” Buttigieg
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,456

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    But is he a Protestant Atheist, to be sure?
    I can't recall. Was it here or elsewhere? I think in this country you can (somehow) be both.
    I'm an atheist. Blackness awaits me (finally a chance to catch up on some sleep!). But my wife is CoE and we go to Church and I help out at the local Christian charity.......

    I am an atheist..... but.........
    I think our religion hasn't taken on the nationalistic leanings the United States has, and the level of grift that so called 'pastors' in the US has. Supply Side Jesus is a wholly US idea, that I think hasn't imported at all in the UK.
    Our evangelical churches often have, especially the Pentecostal and Baptist ones.

    US Episcopalians on the other hand tend to be even more liberal than UK Anglicans
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    Yougov (US) polling tends to skew slightly liberal, I think ?
    But the trend does not lie.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5509022-lowest-approval-trump-second-term/
    ..President Trump’s approval rating dropped to its lowest level of his second term in the YouGov/Economist poll released Tuesday.
    In the weekly survey, conducted this past weekend, 39 percent of surveyed Americans approve of Trump’s handling of the presidency, down from the 41 percent recorded over the last three weeks and 40 percent recorded in mid-August.
    In the latest survey, 57 percent of Americans disapprove of the president’s handling of his post, also a record for his second term.
    Trump’s minus 18 net approval is the second-lowest recorded by the YouGov/Economist weekly poll from either of his two terms...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,546
    Farage sees his God whenever he looks in the mirror.

    The problem is, everyone else sees the devil. :)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,496
    Nigelb said:

    This sort of calculation is possibly part of why she lost ?

    Harris says Buttigieg ‘first choice’ for VP in 2024 but proved ‘too risky’
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5509514-harris-buttigieg-2024-election-running-mate/

    “Well, I was surprised when I read that — I just believe in giving Americans more credit,” Buttigieg

    Lucky escape for him I think but his time will come. He is ridiculously articulate. Probably the best since Bill Clinton.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218
    edited September 19

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,456
    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Of course if you are RC once christened the Vatican considers you RC for life, even if atheist.

    Starmer was christined C of E by his mother, Starmer Sr the toolmaker was a staunch atheist who never accompanied his wife to church his son's bio says
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    (Most local TV now being owned by a conservative billionaire.)

    “We’re going back to the era where local TV stations get to decide what the American people think.” - FCC Chair Brendan Carr
    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1968779684142833696
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,492
    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I don't think Sir Keir was necessarily worried about Trump (who does believe in God provided that god is himself). He was probably more worried about the 'Christian Nation' stuff Reform and its allies are promulgating, and that he'd be condemned as closet Muslim if he didn't explicitly identify with Christianity.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    This sort of calculation is possibly part of why she lost ?

    Harris says Buttigieg ‘first choice’ for VP in 2024 but proved ‘too risky’
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5509514-harris-buttigieg-2024-election-running-mate/

    “Well, I was surprised when I read that — I just believe in giving Americans more credit,” Buttigieg

    Lucky escape for him I think but his time will come. He is ridiculously articulate. Probably the best since Bill Clinton.
    And never flew the Lolita Express.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,301
    edited September 19
    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The other aspect is that I believe a lot of this sort of law has been written extremely broadly, so that the prosecution doesn't need to prove intent or harm, because those pesky details impede the prosecution.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,074
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I would love to comment on the Charlie Kirk and free speech debate, but I have to fly to the US next week, so I can't.

    You need to get some pro Trump comments on the record and in the bank.

    I'd like to assist. His behaviour during the state visit - not too bad at all, was it?

    Agreed?
    Letching over the Princess of Wales?
    Yes, he was as vomit-inducing as ever.

    But we're trying to help bondgezou here - we don't want him getting arrested at JFK.
    Speak for yourself!

    (That was a joke @bondegezou - I don’t really want you being thrown in jail in the US…)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,676
    edited September 19

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Church is a community as well as a religion. I'm agnostic (not atheist), and I see myself as culturally Christian, in that I've been raised in a community and culture that is Christian. I went to school and celebrated Christian festivals, take time off at Christmas, know many of the Christian stories, have read the bible etc. I even pray often.

    It's just that I've yet to find a Christian church that is worth joining. And since @HYUFD told me I'm not welcome at his church, that's another option out. ;)

    People's relationship with God, religion and church is complex.
    I have a surprisingly large number of friend - Jewish, Muslim or Christian - who will cheefully admit that they don't actually believe in the existence of god. But that doesn't stop them from going to the occasional religious service and describing themselves as an [x]. It is a particularly prevalent view among my Jewish friends.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218
    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    Caplin or Sharpe (In civil court)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,546

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I would love to comment on the Charlie Kirk and free speech debate, but I have to fly to the US next week, so I can't.

    You need to get some pro Trump comments on the record and in the bank.

    I'd like to assist. His behaviour during the state visit - not too bad at all, was it?

    Agreed?
    Letching over the Princess of Wales?
    Yes, he was as vomit-inducing as ever.

    But we're trying to help bondgezou here - we don't want him getting arrested at JFK.
    Speak for yourself!

    (That was a joke @bondegezou - I don’t really want you being thrown in jail in the US…)
    AIUI that's part of the point: it won't be a jail. It'll be 'immigrant detention', and maybe even solitary confinement. As they've done with over 10,000 people in the last year.

    A 'jail' might be luxury in comparison. Even a US one.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,496
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://xcancel.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1968776429849497893#m
    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 16% (-3)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (+1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 12% (-)

    Changes from 10th September
    [Find Out Now, 17-18th September, N=4,795]

    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1968783752852611082#m

    image

    That parts of Scotland supposedly remain Tory in a wipeout is very funny given where they were 97 onwards.
    And Labour slipping towards 3rd nationally. God that's a depressing map.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The other aspect is that I believe a lot of this sort of law has been written extremely broadly, so that the prosecution doesn't need to prove intent or harm, because those pesky details impede the prosecution.
    I'm moderately hopeful that Reform will just come in and repeal 'lorra it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,456
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Church is a community as well as a religion. I'm agnostic (not atheist), and I see myself as culturally Christian, in that I've been raised in a community and culture that is Christian. I went to school and celebrated Christian festivals, take time off at Christmas, know many of the Christian stories, have read the bible etc. I even pray often.

    It's just that I've yet to find a Christian church that is worth joining. And since @HYUFD told me I'm not welcome at his church, that's another option out. ;)

    People's relationship with God, religion and church is complex.
    I have a surprisingly large number of friend - Jewish, Muslim or Christian - who will cheefully admit that they don't actually believe in the existence of god. But that doesn't stop them from going to the occasional religious service and describing themselves as an [x]. It is a particularly prevalent view among my Jewish friends.
    After the Holocaust Jews also naturally feel closer to other Jews than anyone else, hence when outside of Israel Synagogue is an important networking base for the local community
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300
    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,456
    edited September 19
    Nigelb said:

    This sort of calculation is possibly part of why she lost ?

    Harris says Buttigieg ‘first choice’ for VP in 2024 but proved ‘too risky’
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5509514-harris-buttigieg-2024-election-running-mate/

    “Well, I was surprised when I read that — I just believe in giving Americans more credit,” Buttigieg

    Buttigieg dodged a bullet there, avoided being defeated VP nominee last year and is now leading the pack for the Democratic nomination in 2028. Most likely against GOP nominee VP Vance who is more intellectual but less charismatic than Trump and after the economic effects of Trump's tariffs have been felt
  • isamisam Posts: 42,734
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    CofE non believer, then ?

    He's got plenty of company, if so.

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Church is a community as well as a religion. I'm agnostic (not atheist), and I see myself as culturally Christian, in that I've been raised in a community and culture that is Christian. I went to school and celebrated Christian festivals, take time off at Christmas, know many of the Christian stories, have read the bible etc. I even pray often.

    It's just that I've yet to find a Christian church that is worth joining. And since @HYUFD told me I'm not welcome at his church, that's another option out. ;)

    People's relationship with God, religion and church is complex.
    Of course, but insincere Sir Keir is a Cultural Christian when he’s next to Trump and a militant atheist when he’s with left wing academics. He’s a vegetarian on ethical grounds as a point of principle, but he eats chicken when he’s hungry.

    Very similar to the character of Danglars in The Count of Monte Cristo chapter ‘Unlimited Credit’

    "I see; to your domestics you are `my lord,' the journalists style you `monsieur,' while your constituents call you `citizen.' These are distinctions very suitable under a constitutional government.

    https://www.literature.org/authors/dumas-alexandre/the-count-of-monte-cristo/chapter-46.html
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,845
    "Hundreds of Afghans who have been relocated to Britain under a multibillion-pound scheme to protect them from the Taliban have returned to Afghanistan for holidays and other trips, an Afghan source has revealed.

    The source, himself a former interpreter who served with British forces in Afghanistan before also starting a new life in the UK, said the excursions were evidence that the threat some of his countrymen say they face because of past links with the British has been exaggerated.

    "The only threat is unemployment," the man told Sky News, requesting anonymity to avoid repercussions for speaking out."

    https://news.sky.com/story/afghans-relocated-to-uk-exaggerating-taliban-threat-ex-interpreter-says-13423813
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The other aspect is that I believe a lot of this sort of law has been written extremely broadly, so that the prosecution doesn't need to prove intent or harm, because those pesky details impede the prosecution.
    Bit like if someone "war drives" your WiFi, and commits crimes, you are on the hook. Unless you can prove that you were hacked.

    And god help you, if someone stores criminal material on a computer or server you are nominally in charge of.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,089
    edited September 19

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    Yep, its a real problem. How on earth have we ended up with this Online Safety Act? And public safety laws mandating the arrest of a person wearing a Plasticine Action tshirt?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,630

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The other aspect is that I believe a lot of this sort of law has been written extremely broadly, so that the prosecution doesn't need to prove intent or harm, because those pesky details impede the prosecution.
    Bit like if someone "war drives" your WiFi, and commits crimes, you are on the hook. Unless you can prove that you were hacked.

    And god help you, if someone stores criminal material on a computer or server you are nominally in charge of.
    There's at least one category of suich material, I believe, which it is a crime simply to copy or open. So you're potentially screwed if you open it to find out what someone else has left on your PC. Or simply back up your HD as a whole.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,546
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    CofE non believer, then ?

    He's got plenty of company, if so.

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Church is a community as well as a religion. I'm agnostic (not atheist), and I see myself as culturally Christian, in that I've been raised in a community and culture that is Christian. I went to school and celebrated Christian festivals, take time off at Christmas, know many of the Christian stories, have read the bible etc. I even pray often.

    It's just that I've yet to find a Christian church that is worth joining. And since @HYUFD told me I'm not welcome at his church, that's another option out. ;)

    People's relationship with God, religion and church is complex.
    Of course, but insincere Sir Keir is a Cultural Christian when he’s next to Trump and a militant atheist when he’s with left wing academics. He’s a vegetarian on ethical grounds as a point of principle, but he eats chicken when he’s hungry.

    Very similar to the character of Danglars in The Count of Monte Cristo chapter ‘Unlimited Credit’

    "I see; to your domestics you are `my lord,' the journalists style you `monsieur,' while your constituents call you `citizen.' These are distinctions very suitable under a constitutional government.

    https://www.literature.org/authors/dumas-alexandre/the-count-of-monte-cristo/chapter-46.html
    I think you're really being quite silly in an attempt to get another hit in at Starmer. This one hasn't quite landed.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,074
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm shocked:

    https://obr.uk/docs/dlm_uploads/August-PSF-commentary.pdf

    Local authority revisions and lower-than-expected receipts push borrowing above forecast

    This morning’s ONS release estimates that borrowing in the first five months of 2025-26 totalled £83.8 billion. This is £16.2 billion above the same period last year and £11.4 billion above the monthly profile consistent with our March forecast. The overshoot in this month’s estimates compared to our March forecast profile is primarily due to revisions which have increased estimated borrowing by local authorities so far this year. In addition, VAT and other receipts were lower-than-expected in the month of August.

    Tax rises are eating into economic activity at a higher than expected rate. No fucking shit. Sometimes I wonder whether the people writing the models ever actually go outside and talk to people, experience real life a bit. I assume not.
    The OBR is not fit for purpose. As if they would ever forecast in good faith the reality of Labour's shit show.
    The OBR's projections for debt are absolutely catastrophic, and have been for some time (since about 2017 when they reflected how slow growth had been in the 2010s). Ultimately Labour's taxes and spending plans are immaterial compared with the overall picture - we're still miles off French/Scandi levels of tax for example.

    What's curious is that, given just how bad this is and for how long we have known it, why our borrowing costs are so low (relatively). If Max and the OBR are right, it should be nigh on impossible for the government to borrow over the long term.
    Defined benefit pension schemes needed a place to park their money for a long time which helped keep 30 year yields down. That upwards pressure on gilt prices has unwound substantially which is what has caused yields to rise here much faster than elsewhere. The holders of the UK's long term debt now has a much higher risk profile because it's bond investment funds and hedge funds rather than pension funds. The money is much more flighty than it used to be which is why I keep saying the same thing - this country is one adverse fiscal event away from a sovereign debt crisis.

    I don't relish the thought, we just have to hope there is enough competency in the government to keep the plates spinning for long enough that we get a new one that will come in and cut spending like the Tories did in 2010.
    The markets just don't believe it's that bad, for whatever reason. I think there is an assumption that fiscal drag will continue, that health spending growth will slow, that the State Pension will be unlocked. All this stuff takes decades to have an impact though, so I think there is a boiling frog thing going - "don't worry, I'm sure the Treasury will deal with it next year".

    It's also relative, no? Most other Western countries have a similar fiscal outlook to the UK, so as long as we're part of that pack well continue to attract investors as a relatively safe haven.
    Yes, the only thing keeping the markets away from a serious run on bond rates, is that most large developed economics are in similar positions.

    Everyone is now Japan circa 1999.
    At some point though the markets will realise it's a Ponzi scheme everywhere. The UK could try to get ahead of things by fixing things now, especially as our demographic pressures, compared to some peers, are not actually that bad.
    Yes, but do Labour have the cojones to cut public sector pensions and the state pension?
    There’s no way they have the cojones to tell the senior CS retirees currently on 2/3s of £100k final salary, that they need to learn to live on 20% less than that, nor to revalue them as career average.

    They might be able to get away with reducing NI by 5% and increasing IT by 5% though.
    Tearing up private contracts retrospectively would be a terrible mistake. The sanctity of contract is pretty much all that holds a capitalistic society together.

    Playing around with tax rates is the way to do it
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    They have the power to arrest for theft.
    In what % of cases do they use that one ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,630

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    Yep, its a real problem. How on earth have we ended up with this Online Safety Act? And public safety laws mandating the arrest of a person wearing a Plasticine Action tshirt?
    On the latter point, IIRC the Scottish case was of an over-zealous, or come to think of it quite possibly spelling-challenged, arrest, which was stopped when the custody (?) sergeant very sensibly but firmly pointed out to the senior officer in question that the relevant Act didn't actually contaim the word Plasticine.

    Not sure what happened in London, mind.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,012

    Andy_JS said:

    "Techne UK
    @techneUK

    Reform UK: 30% (-1)
    Labour: 20% (-1)
    Conservatives: 19% (+1)
    Lib Dems: 15% (+1)
    Greens: 9% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (+1)
    Others: 4% (=)

    1635 Surveyed
    Field Work: 17th & 18th Sep
    +/- 5th Sep
    Data: https://ll.ink/Lb52XT"

    https://x.com/techneUK/status/1968979194349494452

    Cons taking second place from Labour would cause some ripples...

    "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror - and were suddenly silenced..."
    Labour falling behind the Lib Dems is the big one to watch for.
    Dream on...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The other aspect is that I believe a lot of this sort of law has been written extremely broadly, so that the prosecution doesn't need to prove intent or harm, because those pesky details impede the prosecution.
    Bit like if someone "war drives" your WiFi, and commits crimes, you are on the hook. Unless you can prove that you were hacked.

    And god help you, if someone stores criminal material on a computer or server you are nominally in charge of.
    There's at least one category of suich material, I believe, which it is a crime simply to copy or open. So you're potentially screwed if you open it to find out what someone else has left on your PC. Or simply back up your HD as a whole.
    Forest Gate

    Cough! Cough!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    I would differentiate slightly the PA protesters who are deliberately breaking the law to prove a point from the other examples. Yes its a stupid law or application of the law but the government has proscribed PA and supporting them is now an offence.

    I am far less clear what offence wearing a 'bollocks to Blair' T-shirt is committing, or a sign saying remember Tibet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    edited September 19
    I have to admit to quite liking the current version of Newsom.

    DONNY PEAKED IN "THE APPRENTICE," NOW CAN'T STOP FIRING EVERYONE. (SAD) HOW ABOUT FIRING THE GUY WHO PAINTS HIS FACE WITH SWEET POTATO. OR THE STYLIST WHO PULLS HIS PANTS UP TO HIS NECK. OR THE WIZARD WHO MADE HIS HAIR & HANDS INVISIBLE. (YOU CAN'T FIRE ME OR SHARKS!)-- GCN 4EVER
    https://x.com/AwesomeNewsom/status/1968859111497334798
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    I would differentiate slightly the PA protesters who are deliberately breaking the law to prove a point from the other examples. Yes its a stupid law or application of the law but the government has proscribed PA and supporting them is now an offence.

    I am far less clear what offence wearing a 'bollocks to Blair' T-shirt is committing, or a sign saying remember Tibet.
    Nostalgia ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    CofE non believer, then ?

    He's got plenty of company, if so.

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Church is a community as well as a religion. I'm agnostic (not atheist), and I see myself as culturally Christian, in that I've been raised in a community and culture that is Christian. I went to school and celebrated Christian festivals, take time off at Christmas, know many of the Christian stories, have read the bible etc. I even pray often.

    It's just that I've yet to find a Christian church that is worth joining. And since @HYUFD told me I'm not welcome at his church, that's another option out. ;)

    People's relationship with God, religion and church is complex.
    Of course, but insincere Sir Keir is a Cultural Christian when he’s next to Trump and a militant atheist when he’s with left wing academics. He’s a vegetarian on ethical grounds as a point of principle, but he eats chicken when he’s hungry.

    Very similar to the character of Danglars in The Count of Monte Cristo chapter ‘Unlimited Credit’

    "I see; to your domestics you are `my lord,' the journalists style you `monsieur,' while your constituents call you `citizen.' These are distinctions very suitable under a constitutional government.

    https://www.literature.org/authors/dumas-alexandre/the-count-of-monte-cristo/chapter-46.html
    I am trying the remember which book had the following -

    "To my friends, I am David. To you, I am the Duke of X, Earl of Y etc etc {for about 3 lines}"
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,845

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    Hang on a minute — the police have the powers to arrest burglars, shoplifters, etc, but quite often they don't use those powers. So I'm a bit confused.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,298
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Craig Murray jumping the shark

    '@CraigMurrayOrg
    A day I shall never forget.
    Speaking at the UN in Geneva in favour of Scottish Independence, I stated that the UK is a force for evil in the world.
    And people from all over the globe interrupted with spontaneous applause'
    https://x.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1968720543416287530

    O wad some Power the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion.
    Perhaps I'm reaching here, but I doubt if those who are applauding are the representatives of liberal democracies.

    The kinds of states that Craig Murray admires are the places that people escape from, rather than escape to.
    When the Berlin Wall fell, how come the human traffic was only in one direction?
    Murray firmly believes that Mossad (who else?) were behind the Salisbury poisonings. It goes without saying that he is totally opposed to assisting Ukraine.
    Candace Owens is already saying that Mossad killed Charlie Kirk.

    There’s a bunch of crazies out there who wish to blame Israel for everything. They’ve been accused of 1000 of the last 10 things they’ve done.
    That's the thing about blaming the Jews for everything. Not only are they extremely evil, they are extremely effective. There is no coup that they cannot pull off, and governments danc3e to their tune.
    Same as us really. We're able to do anything and be everywhere. We're currently cutting undersea cables in the Baltic, using drones to attack Russia and the late Queen ruled everything and everyone danced to her tune..... or so the Russians would have you believe.
    I maintain they only blame us for stuff so they don't appear to directly blame America for everything. As their main opponent they want to be more selective in their USA attacks.
    There is a long history of Russia blaming us for stuff, especially when it is a bit sneaky. Goes back to the Great Game apparently
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,301
    edited September 19

    Andy_JS said:

    "Techne UK
    @techneUK

    Reform UK: 30% (-1)
    Labour: 20% (-1)
    Conservatives: 19% (+1)
    Lib Dems: 15% (+1)
    Greens: 9% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (+1)
    Others: 4% (=)

    1635 Surveyed
    Field Work: 17th & 18th Sep
    +/- 5th Sep
    Data: https://ll.ink/Lb52XT"

    https://x.com/techneUK/status/1968979194349494452

    Cons taking second place from Labour would cause some ripples...

    "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror - and were suddenly silenced..."
    Labour falling behind the Lib Dems is the big one to watch for.
    Dream on...
    I don't think I want it to happen, but it would be dramatic.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    I would differentiate slightly the PA protesters who are deliberately breaking the law to prove a point from the other examples. Yes its a stupid law or application of the law but the government has proscribed PA and supporting them is now an offence.

    I am far less clear what offence wearing a 'bollocks to Blair' T-shirt is committing, or a sign saying remember Tibet.
    Nostalgia ?
    Bollocks to Blair - allegedly causing "distress or alarm"

    The Remember Tibet signs were under some ancient Royal Parks legislation - early in New Labours run, the Chinese Premier visited. Tibet protesters, who were a very peaceful lot, were carefully rounded up, so that the Chinese delegation wouldn't have to suffer seeing them.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,298

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    I would differentiate slightly the PA protesters who are deliberately breaking the law to prove a point from the other examples. Yes its a stupid law or application of the law but the government has proscribed PA and supporting them is now an offence.

    I am far less clear what offence wearing a 'bollocks to Blair' T-shirt is committing, or a sign saying remember Tibet.
    The word bollocks is presumably still considered offensive in some circles, so some form of offensive behaviour offence.

    We still haven't been told how lighting up someone's house with a picture of the US President and his former best mate is somehow a malicious communication, or indeed if they have actually been charged. I can't imagine a jury would convict.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300

    Andy_JS said:

    "Techne UK
    @techneUK

    Reform UK: 30% (-1)
    Labour: 20% (-1)
    Conservatives: 19% (+1)
    Lib Dems: 15% (+1)
    Greens: 9% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (+1)
    Others: 4% (=)

    1635 Surveyed
    Field Work: 17th & 18th Sep
    +/- 5th Sep
    Data: https://ll.ink/Lb52XT"

    https://x.com/techneUK/status/1968979194349494452

    Cons taking second place from Labour would cause some ripples...

    "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror - and were suddenly silenced..."
    Labour falling behind the Lib Dems is the big one to watch for.
    Dream on...
    I don't think I want it to happen, but it would be dramatic.

    Every time that I look in the mirror
    All these lines on my face getting clearer
    The past is gone
    Oh, it went by like dusk to dawn
    Isn't that the way?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    I would differentiate slightly the PA protesters who are deliberately breaking the law to prove a point from the other examples. Yes its a stupid law or application of the law but the government has proscribed PA and supporting them is now an offence.

    I am far less clear what offence wearing a 'bollocks to Blair' T-shirt is committing, or a sign saying remember Tibet.
    The word bollocks is presumably still considered offensive in some circles, so some form of offensive behaviour offence.

    We still haven't been told how lighting up someone's house with a picture of the US President and his former best mate is somehow a malicious communication, or indeed if they have actually been charged. I can't imagine a jury would convict.
    Yep - we await the climb down from the authorities, but the key thing is that the miscreants were stopped...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,676

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm shocked:

    https://obr.uk/docs/dlm_uploads/August-PSF-commentary.pdf

    Local authority revisions and lower-than-expected receipts push borrowing above forecast

    This morning’s ONS release estimates that borrowing in the first five months of 2025-26 totalled £83.8 billion. This is £16.2 billion above the same period last year and £11.4 billion above the monthly profile consistent with our March forecast. The overshoot in this month’s estimates compared to our March forecast profile is primarily due to revisions which have increased estimated borrowing by local authorities so far this year. In addition, VAT and other receipts were lower-than-expected in the month of August.

    Tax rises are eating into economic activity at a higher than expected rate. No fucking shit. Sometimes I wonder whether the people writing the models ever actually go outside and talk to people, experience real life a bit. I assume not.
    The OBR is not fit for purpose. As if they would ever forecast in good faith the reality of Labour's shit show.
    The OBR's projections for debt are absolutely catastrophic, and have been for some time (since about 2017 when they reflected how slow growth had been in the 2010s). Ultimately Labour's taxes and spending plans are immaterial compared with the overall picture - we're still miles off French/Scandi levels of tax for example.

    What's curious is that, given just how bad this is and for how long we have known it, why our borrowing costs are so low (relatively). If Max and the OBR are right, it should be nigh on impossible for the government to borrow over the long term.
    Defined benefit pension schemes needed a place to park their money for a long time which helped keep 30 year yields down. That upwards pressure on gilt prices has unwound substantially which is what has caused yields to rise here much faster than elsewhere. The holders of the UK's long term debt now has a much higher risk profile because it's bond investment funds and hedge funds rather than pension funds. The money is much more flighty than it used to be which is why I keep saying the same thing - this country is one adverse fiscal event away from a sovereign debt crisis.

    I don't relish the thought, we just have to hope there is enough competency in the government to keep the plates spinning for long enough that we get a new one that will come in and cut spending like the Tories did in 2010.
    The markets just don't believe it's that bad, for whatever reason. I think there is an assumption that fiscal drag will continue, that health spending growth will slow, that the State Pension will be unlocked. All this stuff takes decades to have an impact though, so I think there is a boiling frog thing going - "don't worry, I'm sure the Treasury will deal with it next year".

    It's also relative, no? Most other Western countries have a similar fiscal outlook to the UK, so as long as we're part of that pack well continue to attract investors as a relatively safe haven.
    Yes, the only thing keeping the markets away from a serious run on bond rates, is that most large developed economics are in similar positions.

    Everyone is now Japan circa 1999.
    At some point though the markets will realise it's a Ponzi scheme everywhere. The UK could try to get ahead of things by fixing things now, especially as our demographic pressures, compared to some peers, are not actually that bad.
    Yes, but do Labour have the cojones to cut public sector pensions and the state pension?
    There’s no way they have the cojones to tell the senior CS retirees currently on 2/3s of £100k final salary, that they need to learn to live on 20% less than that, nor to revalue them as career average.

    They might be able to get away with reducing NI by 5% and increasing IT by 5% though.
    Tearing up private contracts retrospectively would be a terrible mistake. The sanctity of contract is pretty much all that holds a capitalistic society together.

    Playing around with tax rates is the way to do it
    Indeed: people entered into agreements to work based on a contract. It sends a terrible message that the word of the British government cannot be trusted.

    It's also important to distinguish between the various different government pension schemes in existence, some* of which are fully funded, some are partially funded, and others are completely unfunded.

    So: for University employees, there's the Universities Superannuation Scheme that is fully funded. There's then the Teachers Pension Scheme... which is partially funded. And then if you work for the Department of Education in Whitehall, well your pensions are completely unfunded.

    * well, a few
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300
    Incidentally, for the Palestinian Action types, I would introduce the new offence of Being a Bit Of Performative Twat In A Public Place.

    The punishment would be wearing a Harlequin outfit every time you go out in public, for a month.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Church is a community as well as a religion. I'm agnostic (not atheist), and I see myself as culturally Christian, in that I've been raised in a community and culture that is Christian. I went to school and celebrated Christian festivals, take time off at Christmas, know many of the Christian stories, have read the bible etc. I even pray often.

    It's just that I've yet to find a Christian church that is worth joining. And since @HYUFD told me I'm not welcome at his church, that's another option out. ;)

    People's relationship with God, religion and church is complex.
    And religion is notoriously hard to pin down.

    "If you had to guess what percentage of American adults are muslim..."

    Survey Guess: 27%

    Actual Share of the US Population: 1%

    - YouGov -

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1968774791424307481
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,195
    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    So the journalist has been charged with a crime, for reposting something that wasn’t considered a crime?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    I would differentiate slightly the PA protesters who are deliberately breaking the law to prove a point from the other examples. Yes its a stupid law or application of the law but the government has proscribed PA and supporting them is now an offence.

    I am far less clear what offence wearing a 'bollocks to Blair' T-shirt is committing, or a sign saying remember Tibet.
    The word bollocks is presumably still considered offensive in some circles, so some form of offensive behaviour offence.

    We still haven't been told how lighting up someone's house with a picture of the US President and his former best mate is somehow a malicious communication, or indeed if they have actually been charged. I can't imagine a jury would convict.
    Yep - we await the climb down from the authorities, but the key thing is that the miscreants were stopped...
    The authorities have nailed their trousers to the mast head, on this one.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,676
    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    Hang on a minute — the police have the powers to arrest burglars, shoplifters, etc, but quite often they don't use those powers. So I'm a bit confused.
    The problem is that these crimes are 'easy'. The evidence is online. There are no witnesses to corall. Etc.

    They help raise a police force's closure rate. (What percentage of reported crimes get closed?)

    The problem is that all too often, they are complete bullshit.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,676
    Sandpit said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    So the journalist has been charged with a crime, for reposting something that wasn’t considered a crime?
    That is correct.

    There is also essentially zero chance this ends in conviction, so it's an insane waste of time and (basically) harassment of a retired journalist.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,676
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Church is a community as well as a religion. I'm agnostic (not atheist), and I see myself as culturally Christian, in that I've been raised in a community and culture that is Christian. I went to school and celebrated Christian festivals, take time off at Christmas, know many of the Christian stories, have read the bible etc. I even pray often.

    It's just that I've yet to find a Christian church that is worth joining. And since @HYUFD told me I'm not welcome at his church, that's another option out. ;)

    People's relationship with God, religion and church is complex.
    I have a surprisingly large number of friend - Jewish, Muslim or Christian - who will cheefully admit that they don't actually believe in the existence of god. But that doesn't stop them from going to the occasional religious service and describing themselves as an [x]. It is a particularly prevalent view among my Jewish friends.
    After the Holocaust Jews also naturally feel closer to other Jews than anyone else, hence when outside of Israel Synagogue is an important networking base for the local community
    You know, I had an incredibly tasteless response to this comment, that I had to suppress. Be grateful.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Two things I do not believe will happen.

    1) Emma Raducanu ever winning a Slam again
    2) Donald Trump being in office past Jan 2029

    I think Emma will win at least one more but it could be a long wait.
    Emma Raducanu has the skill to compete at the top level but her body is made of glass. Continually changing coaches probably does not help resilience.
  • moonshine said:

    The rentboy / arsonist trial is scheduled for late April. Locals in the middle of it on 6th May. Starmer just needs to hold on long enough for the World Cup in 11th June and he’s probably safe until conference season again.

    Naughty!
  • isamisam Posts: 42,734

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    CofE non believer, then ?

    He's got plenty of company, if so.

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Church is a community as well as a religion. I'm agnostic (not atheist), and I see myself as culturally Christian, in that I've been raised in a community and culture that is Christian. I went to school and celebrated Christian festivals, take time off at Christmas, know many of the Christian stories, have read the bible etc. I even pray often.

    It's just that I've yet to find a Christian church that is worth joining. And since @HYUFD told me I'm not welcome at his church, that's another option out. ;)

    People's relationship with God, religion and church is complex.
    Of course, but insincere Sir Keir is a Cultural Christian when he’s next to Trump and a militant atheist when he’s with left wing academics. He’s a vegetarian on ethical grounds as a point of principle, but he eats chicken when he’s hungry.

    Very similar to the character of Danglars in The Count of Monte Cristo chapter ‘Unlimited Credit’

    "I see; to your domestics you are `my lord,' the journalists style you `monsieur,' while your constituents call you `citizen.' These are distinctions very suitable under a constitutional government.

    https://www.literature.org/authors/dumas-alexandre/the-count-of-monte-cristo/chapter-46.html
    I think you're really being quite silly in an attempt to get another hit in at Starmer. This one hasn't quite landed.
    Well you can think what you like, but on this occasion I have to disagree. He says he’s an atheist, but wouldn’t do so in front of Trump. To me it’s consistent with being insincere & slimy, like his meat eating when professing to be a vegetarian on ethical grounds. To me it says I can’t trust anything he says
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    Guy who just a few days ago publicly advocated "involuntary lethal injections" for the homeless.

    “Jimmy Kimmel’s comments went way too far.” - Brian Kilmeade
    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1968813576665129012

    Still employed by and broadcasting for Fox.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foss said:

    I really don't see what win our society gets from this? Journalist going to trial after highlighting porn shared by ex-MP on X

    I think this is target culture.

    Offences like this are easy to gather evidence for and to prosecute, and so everyone in the system gets to meet their productivity targets more easily.

    Supposedly this is the sort of thing that PCCs were supposed to tackle, to make sure police focused on offences the public were most concerned about, but they haven't been effective.
    Just astonishing that Greg Hadfield is being prosecuted for that. Sure, Caplin could try and sue him for defamation/libel. But a breach of the criminal law ?!? What sort of nation decides this is that.
    The MAGA twatishness aside, we do have a freedom of speech problem in the UK.

    The police being able to detain people for wearing T-shirts saying "Bollocks to Blair" and little old ladies holding up signs saying "Remember Tibet" in sight of the of the Chinese President. Or the Palestinian Action nonsense. Or Kneecap. Or the latest one, where Thames Valley Police couldn't tell a person what she was supposed to apologiser for. Then "lost the complaint".

    Anyone remember the arrest of an opposition politician for receiving leaked information? Said leaked information wasn't any actually secrets - it was the sequence of bullshit responses that spin doctors were going to use to deflect a story. So the opposition got in front of the governments spin.... That episode only ended when it was pointed out Gordon Brown had boasted of receiving leaks in opposition, and that if this went on, an MP who was a part time police officer would arrest him on the floor of the House of Commons, for the same "offence".

    As one policeman told me, directly, "They gave us these powers. We have to use them".
    Hang on a minute — the police have the powers to arrest burglars, shoplifters, etc, but quite often they don't use those powers. So I'm a bit confused.
    The problem is that these crimes are 'easy'. The evidence is online. There are no witnesses to corall. Etc.

    They help raise a police force's closure rate. (What percentage of reported crimes get closed?)

    The problem is that all too often, they are complete bullshit.
    Shoplifting is often video'd (as is phone snatching but the riders often cover their faces).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485

    Andy_JS said:

    Two things I do not believe will happen.

    1) Emma Raducanu ever winning a Slam again
    2) Donald Trump being in office past Jan 2029

    I think Emma will win at least one more but it could be a long wait.
    Emma Raducanu has the skill to compete at the top level but her body is made of glass. Continually changing coaches probably does not help resilience.
    Ultimately at the very top the most important difference is between the ears. Getting the job done, seizing the chance at love thirty on the opponents serve, backing up the break of serve. Arguably easier for women as the slams are still just three set matches (talk about sexual discrimination right there) so you only need to two good sets. Harder for men - how often do we the see the greats come back from 0-2 to win 3-2?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    viewcode said:

    https://xcancel.com/FindoutnowUK/status/1968776429849497893#m
    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 34% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 16% (-3)
    🔵 Conservatives: 16% (+1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 13% (+1)
    🟢 Greens: 12% (-)

    Changes from 10th September
    [Find Out Now, 17-18th September, N=4,795]

    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1968783752852611082#m

    image

    When a model is giving Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven (for example) to Reform, its broken. They got 10% in the by election in the constituency last night, UKIP managed 9% in 2015, the Brexit Party 3% in 2019, Reform didn't bother running there in 2024.
    These models are not much more use than a bit of clickbait
This discussion has been closed.