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Sir Ed Davey is the most popular GB wide party leader – politicalbetting.com

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  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,499
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,804

    Stop punishing the rich, Left-leaning think tank tells Labour
    Resolution Foundation founder says Britain must ‘get back to having some spoils of growth to share’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/18/stop-punishing-rich-resolution-foundation-founder-labour/ (£££)



    Liz Truss was right.

    right wing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,395
    Leon said:

    Starmer has successfully deported one migrant

    We now wait the airship from Boulogne carrying 300,000 asylum seekers as part of the reciprocal scheme

    Don't be puerile. Just rejoice in that news.
  • AnthonyTAnthonyT Posts: 169
    Ed Davey is overrated. Far too prone to jump on bandwagons. Better than Kemi and more human than Starmer but these are low bars.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    Boats stopped. One migrant successfully deported to France.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,479
    edited 10:47AM
    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    Roger said:

    Davey is a lot smarter than people give him credit for being. He's always on the side of the angels (particularly Gaza) without screaming it from the rooftops. A quiet protest against it with the Trump visit that got him plenty of coverage. He's becoming everyone's safe and decent choice. I too wish we had a PM who could be 'nice'

    Davey is "everyone's safe and decent choice", but only getting 12-15% in the opinion polls. The LDs are failing to capitalise on Labour and Tory woes.
    I don't detest the LibDems at all, but to attract more people they need to take some risks and adopt a clear profile.
    That is very hard to achieve. The media ignore them generally. They are not going to come out with stuff that is extreme and might get attention as that would not be liberal. Sometimes stuff does happen that gets attention, like Iraq. Strong areas like electoral reform are of no interest to most people.

    As we have seen sadly the best way of getting the attention of the media and public seems to be to do a bungee jump.

    Can you suggest anything that might work? Rejoin the EU might, but realistically it isn't practical in the short term.
    Something big and radical on tax, for example:
    1. Abolish NI and roll into income tax and corporation tax
    2. Get rid of the cliff edges - move the bands and rates as needed to compensate, but lose all the tapers
    3. Introduce a wealth/property tax and abolish council tax
    4. Abolish inheritance tax, but tax inheritors, either as income tax or a lifetime/yearly tax-free gift allowance
    Off the top of my head and some likely stupid ideas, but tearing up the tax system and starting again would be radical, big news and could also be rooted in liberal principles. Full of risk too, but a good revision should be sellable.
    The field the LDs could have entirely to themselves is the arena of ideas in the form of a total manifesto delivered in non-tortured non-euphemistic language that are clear, truthful, sensible, necessary, costed, progressive, problem solving and reforming, and will cost identifiable voters quantifiable amounts of money and is undergirded by clear political principle.

    Parties have tried everything else. As the LDs can't form a government or win an electiion they might as well set the standard.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,912
    Pulpstar said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    Some big price differences.

    Tom Felton charging almost 800 quid a vid !

    Le Tiss £26 or so..
    I guess that Harry Potter fans in the US are price insensitive?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,266
    Sky

    3 people arrested in Essex on suspicion of spying for Russis
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,810
    Essex is full of traitors.

    Two men and a woman have been arrested in Essex on suspicion of assisting the Russian intelligence service, the Metropolitan police said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/sep/18/three-people-arrested-in-essex-on-suspicion-of-assisting-russian-intelligence-service
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,841
    The fifth highest paved road in Europe; perfect viz and not a cloud in the sky


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,209
    AnthonyT said:

    Ed Davey is overrated. Far too prone to jump on bandwagons...

    Rubbish.

    It's bouncy castles.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,338

    Essex is full of traitors.

    Two men and a woman have been arrested in Essex on suspicion of assisting the Russian intelligence service, the Metropolitan police said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/sep/18/three-people-arrested-in-essex-on-suspicion-of-assisting-russian-intelligence-service

    I thought Chequers was in Buckinghamshire not Essex.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,479
    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


    Instead of adjusting his seat to match his economics, Farage will adjust his message and plans to conform with the wishes of the voters of Clacton and a few hundred other seats. There isn't a single seat in the UK which actually wants significantly lower levels of state managed expenditure. Nationalist social democracy + closed borders (+ high tax but whisper it quietly) here we come.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,266
    IanB2 said:

    The fifth highest paved road in Europe; perfect viz and not a cloud in the sky


    Our son and his family drove their campervan down it last month on their way to Venice
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,912
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    1. He seems to have reported
    2. 28 hours isn’t much - ministers have it far harder. Ultimately up to the voters whether they are getting the level of service they desire
    3. Optics - sure
    4. Money laundering - fair point. Quite a lot of work, but potentially worth doing if you are that way inclined
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,688

    Sky

    3 people arrested in Essex on suspicion of spying for Russis

    Clacton? :lol:
  • eekeek Posts: 31,333

    Stop punishing the rich, Left-leaning think tank tells Labour
    Resolution Foundation founder says Britain must ‘get back to having some spoils of growth to share’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/18/stop-punishing-rich-resolution-foundation-founder-labour/ (£££)



    Liz Truss was right.

    That chart tells you not very much what in 1997 == 100?

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,912

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,266
    BOE holds interest rate at 4%
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,392

    Roger said:

    Davey is a lot smarter than people give him credit for being. He's always on the side of the angels (particularly Gaza) without screaming it from the rooftops. A quiet protest against it with the Trump visit that got him plenty of coverage. He's becoming everyone's safe and decent choice. I too wish we had a PM who could be 'nice'

    Davey is "everyone's safe and decent choice", but only getting 12-15% in the opinion polls. The LDs are failing to capitalise on Labour and Tory woes.
    I don't detest the LibDems at all, but to attract more people they need to take some risks and adopt a clear profile.
    The LibDems do have a clear profile as the Waitrose party.

    The risk would be to leave that comfort zone to try to appeal to other demographics.
    If they want to break through in the north, they need t become the Booths Party.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,688

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    Quite the endorsement, 'MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION'. I'd have thought he'd have gone for 'PATHETIC UNLOVED RATINGS CHALLENGED ZERO TALENT LOSER TERRORIST ORGANISATION'.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,912
    eek said:

    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Dopermean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    "71% of the public have an unfavourable rating with Brits"

    We hate each other ?

    Yes, that seems to be the core problem!
    Starmer has found a solution though. He sold UK plc to the Yanks for £150bn yesterday. Not a great price but he is not good at numbers. Now we will have to do what we are told, whether it is burning gas to feed AI data centres, abolishing the Digital tax or whatever. I think that America is allowing Parliament to remain as a decorative part of our constitution, which is a plus for political betting at least.
    Good morning

    The government are spinning the £150bn investment creating 75,000 jobs across the airwaves this morning

    When I heard 75,000 jobs for £150bn I assumed it was misspoken as I would want a whole lot more jobs for that investment, but it appears it is over 10 years on projects that have to pass design, planning and environmental issues and data centres that will consume vast quantities of electricity and water that is not readily available

    Add in the cost on consumers bills this seems much like the 1.5 million new homes, all smoke and mirrors

    I would suggest this investment would have happened anyway, but it is long term and in that long term is welcome but Starmer has less than 4 years and I doubt very little of it will be noticed by the public who are impatient for change

    And on Ed Davey, I don't generally comment too much about him because I respect many of the Lib Dems who post on here, but if I am being honest I wasn't impressed with his stunts and on policy I know and understand his crusade for carers, not least because of his own family issues, and on Europe and WASPI women but I have no idea what his tax and spending policies are and look on him mainly as representing an English, largely south based party, which is reflected when it comes to Wales, and to a degree Scotland, where he struggles to be relevant
    I'm surprised it's even 75,000 jobs if it's data centres.

    And the problem with modern data centres is they consume stupid amounts of power that they need 24/7/365. So where are the gWs of power to keep them online coming from.
    Don't they also need stupid amounts of water for cooling? Luckily there aren't any water shortages..
    Just use the Trent, erm, I see what you mean ...

    Are they going to build them on Rannoch Moor? No, not enough nice bistros for tech bros.

    Most data centres now used closed loop water cooling. Think air conditioning on a vast scale.

    That’s why they don’t have giant cooling towers belching clouds.
    Good - doesn't surprise me given their Usonian origins.
    Presumably air-cooling wouldn't be closed loop, so how would they capture that heat?
    It’s just heat exchange. Hot water comes out of the data centre cooling system. You can either dump the heat into air, or into people’s homes to heat them, or whatever. Then the water (now coldish) goes back to the data centre.
    As someone whose tech and engineering knowledge would make a Neanderthal blush with pity could I ask if the following has been considered and if so/not what are the things that would make it impossible.

    If they built data centres in modular waterproof “boxes” which were then anchored underwater in the North Sea, for example, couldn’t they massively reduce their need for electricity for cooling by benefiting from the cooler ambient temperatures of the deeper water and using the surrounding cold water to aid some sort of cooling system.

    I know it might all seem a bit 1960s underseasea kingdom with these worlds under the sea but they could be serviced from adapted closed rigs above for housing staff and kit.

    I’m probably going to look an absolute moron for suggesting as brighter minds have inevitably looked for options but thought I would ask anyway.
    They already immerse the chips in a cooling fluid (I forget what it is). I assume if they did as you suggested then the increased cost of maintenance would outweigh the savings from cooling.
    Microsoft experimented with underwater data centres a while back. The attempt was reported as successful but has never been repeated but I suspect that's because power consumption (so cooling requirements) have increased significantly since then...
    Heating sea water is not consequence free from an environmental perspective
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,564
    edited 11:05AM

    Dopermean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    "71% of the public have an unfavourable rating with Brits"

    We hate each other ?

    Yes, that seems to be the core problem!
    Starmer has found a solution though. He sold UK plc to the Yanks for £150bn yesterday. Not a great price but he is not good at numbers. Now we will have to do what we are told, whether it is burning gas to feed AI data centres, abolishing the Digital tax or whatever. I think that America is allowing Parliament to remain as a decorative part of our constitution, which is a plus for political betting at least.
    Good morning

    The government are spinning the £150bn investment creating 75,000 jobs across the airwaves this morning

    When I heard 75,000 jobs for £150bn I assumed it was misspoken as I would want a whole lot more jobs for that investment, but it appears it is over 10 years on projects that have to pass design, planning and environmental issues and data centres that will consume vast quantities of electricity and water that is not readily available

    Add in the cost on consumers bills this seems much like the 1.5 million new homes, all smoke and mirrors

    I would suggest this investment would have happened anyway, but it is long term and in that long term is welcome but Starmer has less than 4 years and I doubt very little of it will be noticed by the public who are impatient for change

    And on Ed Davey, I don't generally comment too much about him because I respect many of the Lib Dems who post on here, but if I am being honest I wasn't impressed with his stunts and on policy I know and understand his crusade for carers, not least because of his own family issues, and on Europe and WASPI women but I have no idea what his tax and spending policies are and look on him mainly as representing an English, largely south based party, which is reflected when it comes to Wales, and to a degree Scotland, where he struggles to be relevant
    I'm surprised it's even 75,000 jobs if it's data centres.

    And the problem with modern data centres is they consume stupid amounts of power that they need 24/7/365. So where are the gWs of power to keep them online coming from.
    Don't they also need stupid amounts of water for cooling? Luckily there aren't any water shortages..
    Just use the Trent, erm, I see what you mean ...

    Are they going to build them on Rannoch Moor? No, not enough nice bistros for tech bros.

    Most data centres now used closed loop water cooling. Think air conditioning on a vast scale.

    That’s why they don’t have giant cooling towers belching clouds.
    Good - doesn't surprise me given their Usonian origins.
    Presumably air-cooling wouldn't be closed loop, so how would they capture that heat?
    It’s just heat exchange. Hot water comes out of the data centre cooling system. You can either dump the heat into air, or into people’s homes to heat them, or whatever. Then the water (now coldish) goes back to the data centre.
    That would work best somewhere like Ravenscraig where the data centre can be built in conjunction with new houses, instead of trying to retrofit.
    Also Firth of Clyde for cooling [edit] as an alternative - one reason for the original power station site there IIRC (though the quay for offloading coal in bulk isn't quite so useful now).
  • eekeek Posts: 31,333
    edited 11:08AM

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    More reasons for ICE to pick people up and place them in their detention centres...

    Remember the desired end result is - your face / skin colour doesn't look right, ICE can detain you for their own lols.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,912
    eek said:

    Stop punishing the rich, Left-leaning think tank tells Labour
    Resolution Foundation founder says Britain must ‘get back to having some spoils of growth to share’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/18/stop-punishing-rich-resolution-foundation-founder-labour/ (£££)



    Liz Truss was right.

    That chart tells you not very much what in 1997 == 100?

    Output per hour worked?

    Increased nicely until 2008, then slower until 2020 since when it has retreated
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,989
    eek said:

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    More reasons for ICE to pick people up and place them in their detention centres...
    Is Antifa actually a single organizational entity?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,831
    Scott_xP said:
    I don't understand this skeet. Is she saying they are doing another poor Star Wars story, ignoring the lesson of Tony Gilroy's work on the television series "Andor"? Or is she saying that their corporate shenanigans are poorly planned, ignoring the lessons of the plot of "Andor"?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,912
    eek said:

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    More reasons for ICE to pick people up and place them in their detention centres...

    Remember the desired end result is - your face / skin colour doesn't look right, ICE can detain you for their own lols.
    That was my “exiled” point, yes
  • eekeek Posts: 31,333
    edited 11:09AM

    eek said:

    Stop punishing the rich, Left-leaning think tank tells Labour
    Resolution Foundation founder says Britain must ‘get back to having some spoils of growth to share’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/18/stop-punishing-rich-resolution-foundation-founder-labour/ (£££)



    Liz Truss was right.

    That chart tells you not very much what in 1997 == 100?

    Output per hour worked?

    Increased nicely until 2008, then slower until 2020 since when it has retreated
    But what is the definition of output they are measuring?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,912
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Stop punishing the rich, Left-leaning think tank tells Labour
    Resolution Foundation founder says Britain must ‘get back to having some spoils of growth to share’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/18/stop-punishing-rich-resolution-foundation-founder-labour/ (£££)



    Liz Truss was right.

    That chart tells you not very much what in 1997 == 100?

    Output per hour worked?

    Increased nicely until 2008, then slower until 2020 since when it has retreated
    But what is the definition of output they are measuring?
    I’d assume ONS definition but don’t have the backup
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,680
    edited 11:11AM

    eek said:

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    More reasons for ICE to pick people up and place them in their detention centres...
    Is Antifa actually a single organizational entity?
    No. It doesn't exist.
    So concluded the last non-Trump appointed head of the FBI.
    Therefore to MAGA that proves it does.
    Its leaders are Jimmy Kimmel and Taylor Swift.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,980

    boulay said:

    Dopermean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    "71% of the public have an unfavourable rating with Brits"

    We hate each other ?

    Yes, that seems to be the core problem!
    Starmer has found a solution though. He sold UK plc to the Yanks for £150bn yesterday. Not a great price but he is not good at numbers. Now we will have to do what we are told, whether it is burning gas to feed AI data centres, abolishing the Digital tax or whatever. I think that America is allowing Parliament to remain as a decorative part of our constitution, which is a plus for political betting at least.
    Good morning

    The government are spinning the £150bn investment creating 75,000 jobs across the airwaves this morning

    When I heard 75,000 jobs for £150bn I assumed it was misspoken as I would want a whole lot more jobs for that investment, but it appears it is over 10 years on projects that have to pass design, planning and environmental issues and data centres that will consume vast quantities of electricity and water that is not readily available

    Add in the cost on consumers bills this seems much like the 1.5 million new homes, all smoke and mirrors

    I would suggest this investment would have happened anyway, but it is long term and in that long term is welcome but Starmer has less than 4 years and I doubt very little of it will be noticed by the public who are impatient for change

    And on Ed Davey, I don't generally comment too much about him because I respect many of the Lib Dems who post on here, but if I am being honest I wasn't impressed with his stunts and on policy I know and understand his crusade for carers, not least because of his own family issues, and on Europe and WASPI women but I have no idea what his tax and spending policies are and look on him mainly as representing an English, largely south based party, which is reflected when it comes to Wales, and to a degree Scotland, where he struggles to be relevant
    I'm surprised it's even 75,000 jobs if it's data centres.

    And the problem with modern data centres is they consume stupid amounts of power that they need 24/7/365. So where are the gWs of power to keep them online coming from.
    Don't they also need stupid amounts of water for cooling? Luckily there aren't any water shortages..
    Just use the Trent, erm, I see what you mean ...

    Are they going to build them on Rannoch Moor? No, not enough nice bistros for tech bros.

    Most data centres now used closed loop water cooling. Think air conditioning on a vast scale.

    That’s why they don’t have giant cooling towers belching clouds.
    Good - doesn't surprise me given their Usonian origins.
    Presumably air-cooling wouldn't be closed loop, so how would they capture that heat?
    It’s just heat exchange. Hot water comes out of the data centre cooling system. You can either dump the heat into air, or into people’s homes to heat them, or whatever. Then the water (now coldish) goes back to the data centre.
    As someone whose tech and engineering knowledge would make a Neanderthal blush with pity could I ask if the following has been considered and if so/not what are the things that would make it impossible.

    If they built data centres in modular waterproof “boxes” which were then anchored underwater in the North Sea, for example, couldn’t they massively reduce their need for electricity for cooling by benefiting from the cooler ambient temperatures of the deeper water and using the surrounding cold water to aid some sort of cooling system.

    I know it might all seem a bit 1960s underseasea kingdom with these worlds under the sea but they could be serviced from adapted closed rigs above for housing staff and kit.

    I’m probably going to look an absolute moron for suggesting as brighter minds have inevitably looked for options but thought I would ask anyway.
    Microsoft experimented with an underwater data centre. I am out on a walk, so cannot link to it, but Google is your friend.
    The experiment failed

    1) seawater ruins everything.
    2) seawater vapour really ruins everything
    3) maratime operations are expensive
    4) sticking something in a can and putting it in the water isn’t efficient cooling. So you still need elaborate heat exchange technology.

    In the end, it would be cheaper to build your conventional data centre next to the sea and use pumped seawater to cool a primary loop.
    They should put the DC several hundred feet down in the middle of Loch Ness.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,392
    Is antifa supposed to be pronounced "An-Teefa" or "Anti-Fa"? I always pronounce it a the latter in my head.

    Also Bob Vylan - I pronounce as "Vie-Lan" not "Villain" in my head whenever I read it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,831

    eek said:

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    More reasons for ICE to pick people up and place them in their detention centres...
    Is Antifa actually a single organizational entity?
    Not quite...which is a problem

    If it isn't defined in terms of hierarchy or membership (it's more a set of people with common goals who communicate with each other individually but not continuously), then anybody can be labelled as "antifa" and put in whatever oubliette Trump sees fit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,209

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    Hard to say, for now, since there's no actual organisation to contest this in the courts.
    Who has standing to appeal the decision ?

    Anyone, or no one ?

    TERRORISM EXPERT HERE: You cannot designate an idea as a terrorist group.

    There is no organization called ANTIFA. There is no leadership or funding path. There is no membership. Also there is no law in American to charge terrorism. Ask Luigi.

    What he is doing is setting the stage to designate ANY American as a terrorist. That’s Fascism.

    https://x.com/MalcolmNance/status/1968495483266986067
  • eekeek Posts: 31,333

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Stop punishing the rich, Left-leaning think tank tells Labour
    Resolution Foundation founder says Britain must ‘get back to having some spoils of growth to share’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/18/stop-punishing-rich-resolution-foundation-founder-labour/ (£££)



    Liz Truss was right.

    That chart tells you not very much what in 1997 == 100?

    Output per hour worked?

    Increased nicely until 2008, then slower until 2020 since when it has retreated
    But what is the definition of output they are measuring?
    I’d assume ONS definition but don’t have the backup
    But that doesn't give me an actual definition and a very different chart

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/l2kq/pn2
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,209

    eek said:

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    More reasons for ICE to pick people up and place them in their detention centres...
    Is Antifa actually a single organizational entity?
    No.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,923
    algarkirk said:

    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


    Instead of adjusting his seat to match his economics, Farage will adjust his message and plans to conform with the wishes of the voters of Clacton and a few hundred other seats. There isn't a single seat in the UK which actually wants significantly lower levels of state managed expenditure. Nationalist social democracy + closed borders (+ high tax but whisper it quietly) here we come.
    Sounds amazing. Although I think Reform will actually go for Truss style unfunded tax cuts along with some assault on the welfare state. Cue rage among Reform voters in Clackton, Skeggie etc combined with a bond market revolt. No doubt combined with plenty of Trump style BS to distract their supporters. In other words, we will become the shithole they think we are already.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,804
    Selebian said:

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    Quite the endorsement, 'MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION'. I'd have thought he'd have gone for 'PATHETIC UNLOVED RATINGS CHALLENGED ZERO TALENT LOSER TERRORIST ORGANISATION'.
    Fascist doesn't like Antifascists is not news, I would have thought.

    The ultimate backlash from all of this is going to be extraordinary.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,048

    eek said:

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    More reasons for ICE to pick people up and place them in their detention centres...
    Is Antifa actually a single organizational entity?
    That's the beauty of the designation. Anyone giving opposition to fascists can be deemed to be antifa, and thus a terrorist.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,980

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    It’s most likey to be an attempt to understand how these violent groups are being funded, to shut down bank accounts, social media accounts, websites, deport foreigners involved etc.

    Antifa is a loose coalition of organised anarchists, as opposed to a single entity with a structure such as drugs gang.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,048
    edited 11:23AM

    Is antifa supposed to be pronounced "An-Teefa" or "Anti-Fa"? I always pronounce it a the latter in my head.

    Also Bob Vylan - I pronounce as "Vie-Lan" not "Villain" in my head whenever I read it.

    I'm trying to imagine it pronounced in a plummy accent now, something along the lines of, "Aunty Far"
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,844
    Cicero said:

    Stop punishing the rich, Left-leaning think tank tells Labour
    Resolution Foundation founder says Britain must ‘get back to having some spoils of growth to share’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/18/stop-punishing-rich-resolution-foundation-founder-labour/ (£££)



    Liz Truss was right.

    right wing.
    Liz Truss was right about the need to return to the steeper incline before the Bullingdon lot got their hands on the economy.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,688

    eek said:

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    More reasons for ICE to pick people up and place them in their detention centres...
    Is Antifa actually a single organizational entity?
    That's the beauty of the designation. Anyone giving opposition to fascists can be deemed to be antifa, and thus a terrorist.
    Will those of us wondering how the hell to accommodate the FA's decision to change U7 football to 3v3 (from 5v5) from next season also fall under the antiFA definition for these purposes? :hushed:

    (Hoping for limited personal impact: my eldest son is in U8 already, so just stays 5v5 longer, daughter who would be caught up is not fussed about football, next child - son - will be starting the U5/reception group next season so there are two years for it to settle down or be reversed before it really affects him much. At a club level though, it's a bit of a headache.)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,688
    Cicero said:

    Stop punishing the rich, Left-leaning think tank tells Labour
    Resolution Foundation founder says Britain must ‘get back to having some spoils of growth to share’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/18/stop-punishing-rich-resolution-foundation-founder-labour/ (£££)



    Liz Truss was right.

    right wing.
    right wingnut
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,564
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Dopermean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    "71% of the public have an unfavourable rating with Brits"

    We hate each other ?

    Yes, that seems to be the core problem!
    Starmer has found a solution though. He sold UK plc to the Yanks for £150bn yesterday. Not a great price but he is not good at numbers. Now we will have to do what we are told, whether it is burning gas to feed AI data centres, abolishing the Digital tax or whatever. I think that America is allowing Parliament to remain as a decorative part of our constitution, which is a plus for political betting at least.
    Good morning

    The government are spinning the £150bn investment creating 75,000 jobs across the airwaves this morning

    When I heard 75,000 jobs for £150bn I assumed it was misspoken as I would want a whole lot more jobs for that investment, but it appears it is over 10 years on projects that have to pass design, planning and environmental issues and data centres that will consume vast quantities of electricity and water that is not readily available

    Add in the cost on consumers bills this seems much like the 1.5 million new homes, all smoke and mirrors

    I would suggest this investment would have happened anyway, but it is long term and in that long term is welcome but Starmer has less than 4 years and I doubt very little of it will be noticed by the public who are impatient for change

    And on Ed Davey, I don't generally comment too much about him because I respect many of the Lib Dems who post on here, but if I am being honest I wasn't impressed with his stunts and on policy I know and understand his crusade for carers, not least because of his own family issues, and on Europe and WASPI women but I have no idea what his tax and spending policies are and look on him mainly as representing an English, largely south based party, which is reflected when it comes to Wales, and to a degree Scotland, where he struggles to be relevant
    I'm surprised it's even 75,000 jobs if it's data centres.

    And the problem with modern data centres is they consume stupid amounts of power that they need 24/7/365. So where are the gWs of power to keep them online coming from.
    Don't they also need stupid amounts of water for cooling? Luckily there aren't any water shortages..
    Just use the Trent, erm, I see what you mean ...

    Are they going to build them on Rannoch Moor? No, not enough nice bistros for tech bros.

    Most data centres now used closed loop water cooling. Think air conditioning on a vast scale.

    That’s why they don’t have giant cooling towers belching clouds.
    Good - doesn't surprise me given their Usonian origins.
    Presumably air-cooling wouldn't be closed loop, so how would they capture that heat?
    It’s just heat exchange. Hot water comes out of the data centre cooling system. You can either dump the heat into air, or into people’s homes to heat them, or whatever. Then the water (now coldish) goes back to the data centre.
    As someone whose tech and engineering knowledge would make a Neanderthal blush with pity could I ask if the following has been considered and if so/not what are the things that would make it impossible.

    If they built data centres in modular waterproof “boxes” which were then anchored underwater in the North Sea, for example, couldn’t they massively reduce their need for electricity for cooling by benefiting from the cooler ambient temperatures of the deeper water and using the surrounding cold water to aid some sort of cooling system.

    I know it might all seem a bit 1960s underseasea kingdom with these worlds under the sea but they could be serviced from adapted closed rigs above for housing staff and kit.

    I’m probably going to look an absolute moron for suggesting as brighter minds have inevitably looked for options but thought I would ask anyway.
    Microsoft experimented with an underwater data centre. I am out on a walk, so cannot link to it, but Google is your friend.
    The experiment failed

    1) seawater ruins everything.
    2) seawater vapour really ruins everything
    3) maratime operations are expensive
    4) sticking something in a can and putting it in the water isn’t efficient cooling. So you still need elaborate heat exchange technology.

    In the end, it would be cheaper to build your conventional data centre next to the sea and use pumped seawater to cool a primary loop.
    They should put the DC several hundred feet down in the middle of Loch Ness.
    Might not be enough current. The Loch has some really weird limnology - one would need to dig into it (so to speak).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,680
    edited 11:30AM
    Sandpit said:

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    It’s most likey to be an attempt to understand how these violent groups are being funded, to shut down bank accounts, social media accounts, websites, deport foreigners involved etc.

    Antifa is a loose coalition of organised anarchists, as opposed to a single entity with a structure such as drugs gang.
    It's most likely an attempt to get a catch-all premiss to shut down anyone who doesn't swallow whole the MAGA bollocks.
    His Authoritarianism is accelerating at a rate.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,923
    dixiedean said:

    The vast majority on here have said worse about MAGA than what got Kimmel shut down.
    I won't be booking any trips to the US any time soon.

    I'm going in a few weeks. Let's see what happens!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,844
    Guardian letter-writer suggests raising Premium Bonds limit:-

    Almost half of that £130bn is in the hands of individuals holding the maximum of £50,000. If that maximum holding limit were to be increased, the government would receive a considerable influx of funds at the cost of a relatively low interest rate.
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/sep/17/premium-bonds-might-beat-the-bond-market-bullies
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,209
    Sandpit said:

    "I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION..." - President Donald J. Trump
    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968472434224337221

    What are the practical implications of that designation? Any supporters can be exiled/terminated?
    It’s most likey to be an attempt to understand how these violent groups are being funded, to shut down bank accounts, social media accounts, websites, deport foreigners involved etc.

    Antifa is a loose coalition of organised anarchists, as opposed to a single entity with a structure such as drugs gang.
    Which 'groups' ?
    How are they defined ?

    A terrorist designation is not an "attempt to understand"; it's predicated on knowing what it is that you're proscribing.

    Are we banning "loose coalitions" ?

    What does this add to existing law which can be used to address violence ?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,680

    dixiedean said:

    The vast majority on here have said worse about MAGA than what got Kimmel shut down.
    I won't be booking any trips to the US any time soon.

    I'm going in a few weeks. Let's see what happens!
    Good luck.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,479

    algarkirk said:

    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


    Instead of adjusting his seat to match his economics, Farage will adjust his message and plans to conform with the wishes of the voters of Clacton and a few hundred other seats. There isn't a single seat in the UK which actually wants significantly lower levels of state managed expenditure. Nationalist social democracy + closed borders (+ high tax but whisper it quietly) here we come.
    Sounds amazing. Although I think Reform will actually go for Truss style unfunded tax cuts along with some assault on the welfare state. Cue rage among Reform voters in Clackton, Skeggie etc combined with a bond market revolt. No doubt combined with plenty of Trump style BS to distract their supporters. In other words, we will become the shithole they think we are already.
    These two prognostications encompass what is most important about Reform. In a sense the difference between us is that I think Reform, if they win in 2029, will want to win again in 2023/4, and you think that Reform will knowingly trash the state and burn the crops and villages in emulation of Truss, knowing that this will make it impossible to win in 2033/4.

    In a sense there is no evidence either way, and there probably won't be until we see the 2029 manifesto. But the question deserves high quality journalistic scrutiny. Andrew Neil's take on it will be interesting. The question of how Reform would actually govern is getting scant attention.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,438
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    The vast majority on here have said worse about MAGA than what got Kimmel shut down.
    I won't be booking any trips to the US any time soon.

    I'm going in a few weeks. Let's see what happens!
    Good luck.
    ..


  • isamisam Posts: 42,646
    algarkirk said:

    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


    Instead of adjusting his seat to match his economics, Farage will adjust his message and plans to conform with the wishes of the voters of Clacton and a few hundred other seats. There isn't a single seat in the UK which actually wants significantly lower levels of state managed expenditure. Nationalist social democracy + closed borders (+ high tax but whisper it quietly) here we come.
    Clacton contains Jaywick, which is one of the worst places to live in England, and Frinton, which is a genteel, little seaside town. Both of those demographics play well for a Reform. It was also the most Leave friendly seat in the country I think, so it wasn’t that odd a choice by Farage.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,469

    Cicero said:

    Stop punishing the rich, Left-leaning think tank tells Labour
    Resolution Foundation founder says Britain must ‘get back to having some spoils of growth to share’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/18/stop-punishing-rich-resolution-foundation-founder-labour/ (£££)



    Liz Truss was right.

    right wing.
    Liz Truss was right about the need to return to the steeper incline before the Bullingdon lot got their hands on the economy.
    Isn't 2000-2015 an aberration caused by abolishing boom and bust, then a reversion to the mean? Holding a ruler up to the graph, 1999, and 2016-2019 looks like it all more or less lies on the same straight line?

    The real problem looks like Covid (or rather the government's response to it) as that was the moment productivity growth started going backward. One might think this is related to a) importing millions of unskilled people from the 3rd world* and b) the government employing loads of people for very little extra output but I couldn't possibly comment!

    *productivity growth usually happens when the labour supply is constrained.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,209
    There is, as this suggests, no existing US law which enables the designation of domestic organisations or groups as terrorist.

    There’s no legal mechanism under current U.S. law for a president to designate a domestic group as a terrorist organization. Also, Antifa (short for anti-fascist) is not a formal organization.
    https://x.com/steadystate2025/status/1968497749696913457

    The relevant current law comprises the Patriot Act:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

    And Bush's executive order 13224, which has renewed annually.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13224

    I don't know WTF the legal status of Trump's spew today might be.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,688
    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,586

    eek said:

    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Dopermean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    "71% of the public have an unfavourable rating with Brits"

    We hate each other ?

    Yes, that seems to be the core problem!
    Starmer has found a solution though. He sold UK plc to the Yanks for £150bn yesterday. Not a great price but he is not good at numbers. Now we will have to do what we are told, whether it is burning gas to feed AI data centres, abolishing the Digital tax or whatever. I think that America is allowing Parliament to remain as a decorative part of our constitution, which is a plus for political betting at least.
    Good morning

    The government are spinning the £150bn investment creating 75,000 jobs across the airwaves this morning

    When I heard 75,000 jobs for £150bn I assumed it was misspoken as I would want a whole lot more jobs for that investment, but it appears it is over 10 years on projects that have to pass design, planning and environmental issues and data centres that will consume vast quantities of electricity and water that is not readily available

    Add in the cost on consumers bills this seems much like the 1.5 million new homes, all smoke and mirrors

    I would suggest this investment would have happened anyway, but it is long term and in that long term is welcome but Starmer has less than 4 years and I doubt very little of it will be noticed by the public who are impatient for change

    And on Ed Davey, I don't generally comment too much about him because I respect many of the Lib Dems who post on here, but if I am being honest I wasn't impressed with his stunts and on policy I know and understand his crusade for carers, not least because of his own family issues, and on Europe and WASPI women but I have no idea what his tax and spending policies are and look on him mainly as representing an English, largely south based party, which is reflected when it comes to Wales, and to a degree Scotland, where he struggles to be relevant
    I'm surprised it's even 75,000 jobs if it's data centres.

    And the problem with modern data centres is they consume stupid amounts of power that they need 24/7/365. So where are the gWs of power to keep them online coming from.
    Don't they also need stupid amounts of water for cooling? Luckily there aren't any water shortages..
    Just use the Trent, erm, I see what you mean ...

    Are they going to build them on Rannoch Moor? No, not enough nice bistros for tech bros.

    Most data centres now used closed loop water cooling. Think air conditioning on a vast scale.

    That’s why they don’t have giant cooling towers belching clouds.
    Good - doesn't surprise me given their Usonian origins.
    Presumably air-cooling wouldn't be closed loop, so how would they capture that heat?
    It’s just heat exchange. Hot water comes out of the data centre cooling system. You can either dump the heat into air, or into people’s homes to heat them, or whatever. Then the water (now coldish) goes back to the data centre.
    As someone whose tech and engineering knowledge would make a Neanderthal blush with pity could I ask if the following has been considered and if so/not what are the things that would make it impossible.

    If they built data centres in modular waterproof “boxes” which were then anchored underwater in the North Sea, for example, couldn’t they massively reduce their need for electricity for cooling by benefiting from the cooler ambient temperatures of the deeper water and using the surrounding cold water to aid some sort of cooling system.

    I know it might all seem a bit 1960s underseasea kingdom with these worlds under the sea but they could be serviced from adapted closed rigs above for housing staff and kit.

    I’m probably going to look an absolute moron for suggesting as brighter minds have inevitably looked for options but thought I would ask anyway.
    They already immerse the chips in a cooling fluid (I forget what it is). I assume if they did as you suggested then the increased cost of maintenance would outweigh the savings from cooling.
    Microsoft experimented with underwater data centres a while back. The attempt was reported as successful but has never been repeated but I suspect that's because power consumption (so cooling requirements) have increased significantly since then...
    Heating sea water is not consequence free from an environmental perspective
    Nope, hence the revival of the Colchester Native after Bradwell was shutdown
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,923
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


    Instead of adjusting his seat to match his economics, Farage will adjust his message and plans to conform with the wishes of the voters of Clacton and a few hundred other seats. There isn't a single seat in the UK which actually wants significantly lower levels of state managed expenditure. Nationalist social democracy + closed borders (+ high tax but whisper it quietly) here we come.
    Sounds amazing. Although I think Reform will actually go for Truss style unfunded tax cuts along with some assault on the welfare state. Cue rage among Reform voters in Clackton, Skeggie etc combined with a bond market revolt. No doubt combined with plenty of Trump style BS to distract their supporters. In other words, we will become the shithole they think we are already.
    These two prognostications encompass what is most important about Reform. In a sense the difference between us is that I think Reform, if they win in 2029, will want to win again in 2023/4, and you think that Reform will knowingly trash the state and burn the crops and villages in emulation of Truss, knowing that this will make it impossible to win in 2033/4.

    In a sense there is no evidence either way, and there probably won't be until we see the 2029 manifesto. But the question deserves high quality journalistic scrutiny. Andrew Neil's take on it will be interesting. The question of how Reform would actually govern is getting scant attention.
    The thing about Truss is that she didn't think she was burning the country down or precluding her chance of reelection. Reform may well think that a bit of Truss style supply side tax cuts will ultimately pay dividends even if the bond market isn't keen at first. They might think that the only way they get reelected is to do something radical and different. They may also judge that they can cut welfare in ways that leaves their winning coalition largely intact, especially if they also go big on all the other stuff their supporters like on 'woke' etc. Certainly, when Reform talk to people in the City they talk up the tax and spending cuts.
    I think the agenda is: get elected without scaring off the elderly welfare junkies and hoping to escape scrutiny (easy because nobody listens to experts or independent media); do some radical tax and spending cuts, hoping they can ride out bond market and political ructions; hope to win next time on a 'yes it hurt yes it worked' message combined with other populist BS. Maybe it will work.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,048
    edited 11:48AM
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


    Instead of adjusting his seat to match his economics, Farage will adjust his message and plans to conform with the wishes of the voters of Clacton and a few hundred other seats. There isn't a single seat in the UK which actually wants significantly lower levels of state managed expenditure. Nationalist social democracy + closed borders (+ high tax but whisper it quietly) here we come.
    Sounds amazing. Although I think Reform will actually go for Truss style unfunded tax cuts along with some assault on the welfare state. Cue rage among Reform voters in Clackton, Skeggie etc combined with a bond market revolt. No doubt combined with plenty of Trump style BS to distract their supporters. In other words, we will become the shithole they think we are already.
    These two prognostications encompass what is most important about Reform. In a sense the difference between us is that I think Reform, if they win in 2029, will want to win again in 2023/4, and you think that Reform will knowingly trash the state and burn the crops and villages in emulation of Truss, knowing that this will make it impossible to win in 2033/4.

    In a sense there is no evidence either way, and there probably won't be until we see the 2029 manifesto. But the question deserves high quality journalistic scrutiny. Andrew Neil's take on it will be interesting. The question of how Reform would actually govern is getting scant attention.
    The perennial question arises: Why does Farage want to become PM?

    We know the answer for Trump: he wants to steal money from the US Treasury, put an end to any criminal accountability for breaking the law, and cosplay as an authoritarian dictator. This leads to the conclusion that he will attempt to interfere with the election process to avoid losing in the future.

    Are those Farage's motivations? I find it hard to judge.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,884
    Selebian said:

    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?

    We are promoting small bottoms.

    But they do look like "Hoverchairs by Laura Ashley".
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    Nigelb said:

    There is, as this suggests, no existing US law which enables the designation of domestic organisations or groups as terrorist.

    There’s no legal mechanism under current U.S. law for a president to designate a domestic group as a terrorist organization. Also, Antifa (short for anti-fascist) is not a formal organization.
    https://x.com/steadystate2025/status/1968497749696913457

    The relevant current law comprises the Patriot Act:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

    And Bush's executive order 13224, which has renewed annually.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13224

    I don't know WTF the legal status of Trump's spew today might be.

    Trump must be getting US and UK legislation mixed up
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,862
    Selebian said:

    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?

    Sadly, I haven't been hard up in a long time....
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,586
    Selebian said:

    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?

    I think they're normal-sized chairs, it's just a massive arse
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,048
    Selebian said:

    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?

    Haven't been replaced since Sunak was PM. Had to have smaller chairs then...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,980
    Selebian said:

    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?

    Just imagine the scandal once the press got hold of the PM authorising however many tens of thousands of pounds required to update the furniture in his *third* house.

    They don’t need “updating” though, they’re likely antiques older than the home country of today’s visitor. The current house at Chequers dates from 1565.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,209
    theProle said:

    Cicero said:

    Stop punishing the rich, Left-leaning think tank tells Labour
    Resolution Foundation founder says Britain must ‘get back to having some spoils of growth to share’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/09/18/stop-punishing-rich-resolution-foundation-founder-labour/ (£££)



    Liz Truss was right.

    right wing.
    Liz Truss was right about the need to return to the steeper incline before the Bullingdon lot got their hands on the economy.
    Isn't 2000-2015 an aberration caused by abolishing boom and bust, then a reversion to the mean? Holding a ruler up to the graph, 1999, and 2016-2019 looks like it all more or less lies on the same straight line?

    The real problem looks like Covid (or rather the government's response to it) as that was the moment productivity growth started going backward. One might think this is related to a) importing millions of unskilled people from the 3rd world* and b) the government employing loads of people for very little extra output but I couldn't possibly comment!

    *productivity growth usually happens when the labour supply is constrained.
    We've also had one of the lowest rates of business investment among developed economies for decades.

    Recent immigration rates are quite possibly more symptom than cause.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,980
    MattW said:

    Selebian said:

    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?

    We are promoting small bottoms.

    But they do look like "Hoverchairs by Laura Ashley".
    Insert joke here about the two massive arses currently occupying them.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,884
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


    Instead of adjusting his seat to match his economics, Farage will adjust his message and plans to conform with the wishes of the voters of Clacton and a few hundred other seats. There isn't a single seat in the UK which actually wants significantly lower levels of state managed expenditure. Nationalist social democracy + closed borders (+ high tax but whisper it quietly) here we come.
    Sounds amazing. Although I think Reform will actually go for Truss style unfunded tax cuts along with some assault on the welfare state. Cue rage among Reform voters in Clackton, Skeggie etc combined with a bond market revolt. No doubt combined with plenty of Trump style BS to distract their supporters. In other words, we will become the shithole they think we are already.
    These two prognostications encompass what is most important about Reform. In a sense the difference between us is that I think Reform, if they win in 2029, will want to win again in 2023/4, and you think that Reform will knowingly trash the state and burn the crops and villages in emulation of Truss, knowing that this will make it impossible to win in 2033/4.

    In a sense there is no evidence either way, and there probably won't be until we see the 2029 manifesto. But the question deserves high quality journalistic scrutiny. Andrew Neil's take on it will be interesting. The question of how Reform would actually govern is getting scant attention.
    Farage does seem just slightly like De Lorean Man !
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,833

    Guardian letter-writer suggests raising Premium Bonds limit:-

    Almost half of that £130bn is in the hands of individuals holding the maximum of £50,000. If that maximum holding limit were to be increased, the government would receive a considerable influx of funds at the cost of a relatively low interest rate.
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/sep/17/premium-bonds-might-beat-the-bond-market-bullies

    It's an interesting idea - but all else being equal I would think that the money above £50k that might well be put into Premium Bonds in such a scenario is currently in cash savings accounts earning (say) 4% and being taxed as income above the savings limit - so it's not going to be 'zero cost'. Might well still be worthwhile of course given the poor effective interest rate on Premium Bonds.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,438
    Some juicy gossip from the Telegraph via the Guardian Blog:

    "Ahead of the state visit, the Newsmax CEO Christopher Ruddy (see 10.11am) hosted a party attended by senior rightwing British politicians. In an article for the Daily Telegraph, Gordon Rayner says the event degenerated into a row between the senior Tories over record of the last government.

    After [Nigel] Farage, [Marco] Rubio and [Scott] Bessent had left to attend another event, the Tory big beasts and a smattering of Reform bigwigs sat down to an evening of dinner and civil war.

    [Boris] Johnson, [Liz] Truss, former transport secretary, Mark Harper, and broadcaster, Andrew Neil, argued about the Tories’ record in government, particularly on immigration, and what the future direction of travel should be.

    Jacob Rees-Mogg, who could be regarded as the current standard-bearer of uniting the Right, (he even attended the Reform conference this month), tried and failed to argue that they should all work together for the good of the country. Reform members smiled wryly as they watched the Tories tear lumps out of each other.

    There is a lot of talk in the UK at the moment from people how think the right can only win the next election if the Conservatives and Reform UK can somehow work together. The former Tory minister Steve Baker said only this week he thought some sort of deal was unacceptable.

    But Rayner suggests that will be difficult. Referring to Boris Johnson, he quotes a “senior Reform figure” as saying:

    [Johnson] elicits a visceral emotion in our members. One of the most consensual opinions among Reform members is that he was a disaster, and has already claimed the title of the man who ended the Conservative party’s chances of ever regaining power.

    If we let him join Reform, there would be an exodus of 99.9% of our members.
    "
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,338
    Selebian said:

    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?

    I like the attention to detail where someone has just lobbed one of the scatter cushions on the floor to start’s right and nobody thought to tidy it away for the big photo.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,301
    edited 11:53AM
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Dopermean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    "71% of the public have an unfavourable rating with Brits"

    We hate each other ?

    Yes, that seems to be the core problem!
    Starmer has found a solution though. He sold UK plc to the Yanks for £150bn yesterday. Not a great price but he is not good at numbers. Now we will have to do what we are told, whether it is burning gas to feed AI data centres, abolishing the Digital tax or whatever. I think that America is allowing Parliament to remain as a decorative part of our constitution, which is a plus for political betting at least.
    Good morning

    The government are spinning the £150bn investment creating 75,000 jobs across the airwaves this morning

    When I heard 75,000 jobs for £150bn I assumed it was misspoken as I would want a whole lot more jobs for that investment, but it appears it is over 10 years on projects that have to pass design, planning and environmental issues and data centres that will consume vast quantities of electricity and water that is not readily available

    Add in the cost on consumers bills this seems much like the 1.5 million new homes, all smoke and mirrors

    I would suggest this investment would have happened anyway, but it is long term and in that long term is welcome but Starmer has less than 4 years and I doubt very little of it will be noticed by the public who are impatient for change

    And on Ed Davey, I don't generally comment too much about him because I respect many of the Lib Dems who post on here, but if I am being honest I wasn't impressed with his stunts and on policy I know and understand his crusade for carers, not least because of his own family issues, and on Europe and WASPI women but I have no idea what his tax and spending policies are and look on him mainly as representing an English, largely south based party, which is reflected when it comes to Wales, and to a degree Scotland, where he struggles to be relevant
    I'm surprised it's even 75,000 jobs if it's data centres.

    And the problem with modern data centres is they consume stupid amounts of power that they need 24/7/365. So where are the gWs of power to keep them online coming from.
    Don't they also need stupid amounts of water for cooling? Luckily there aren't any water shortages..
    Just use the Trent, erm, I see what you mean ...

    Are they going to build them on Rannoch Moor? No, not enough nice bistros for tech bros.

    Most data centres now used closed loop water cooling. Think air conditioning on a vast scale.

    That’s why they don’t have giant cooling towers belching clouds.
    Good - doesn't surprise me given their Usonian origins.
    Presumably air-cooling wouldn't be closed loop, so how would they capture that heat?
    It’s just heat exchange. Hot water comes out of the data centre cooling system. You can either dump the heat into air, or into people’s homes to heat them, or whatever. Then the water (now coldish) goes back to the data centre.
    As someone whose tech and engineering knowledge would make a Neanderthal blush with pity could I ask if the following has been considered and if so/not what are the things that would make it impossible.

    If they built data centres in modular waterproof “boxes” which were then anchored underwater in the North Sea, for example, couldn’t they massively reduce their need for electricity for cooling by benefiting from the cooler ambient temperatures of the deeper water and using the surrounding cold water to aid some sort of cooling system.

    I know it might all seem a bit 1960s underseasea kingdom with these worlds under the sea but they could be serviced from adapted closed rigs above for housing staff and kit.

    I’m probably going to look an absolute moron for suggesting as brighter minds have inevitably looked for options but thought I would ask anyway.
    Microsoft experimented with an underwater data centre. I am out on a walk, so cannot link to it, but Google is your friend.
    The experiment failed

    1) seawater ruins everything.
    2) seawater vapour really ruins everything
    3) maratime operations are expensive
    4) sticking something in a can and putting it in the water isn’t efficient cooling. So you still need elaborate heat exchange technology.

    In the end, it would be cheaper to build your conventional data centre next to the sea and use pumped seawater to cool a primary loop.
    They should put the DC several hundred feet down in the middle of Loch Ness.
    Might not be enough current. The Loch has some really weird limnology - one would need to dig into it (so to speak).
    The arctic char wouldn't enjoy it either. Cue 10 years of planning inquiry.

    Though there is local power, of course, whatever you think of the new hydropower gold rush.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,209
    edited 11:57AM
    Selebian said:

    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?

    The wide angle lens also has a distorting effect, which make stuff behind the immediate foreground appear smaller than would our eyeball perspective.

    They're small, but probably not quite as small as they seem there.

    (If Trump were leaning back slightly, he'd look a lot smaller than Starmer.)
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,586
    edited 11:56AM

    algarkirk said:

    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


    Instead of adjusting his seat to match his economics, Farage will adjust his message and plans to conform with the wishes of the voters of Clacton and a few hundred other seats. There isn't a single seat in the UK which actually wants significantly lower levels of state managed expenditure. Nationalist social democracy + closed borders (+ high tax but whisper it quietly) here we come.
    Sounds amazing. Although I think Reform will actually go for Truss style unfunded tax cuts along with some assault on the welfare state. Cue rage among Reform voters in Clackton, Skeggie etc combined with a bond market revolt. No doubt combined with plenty of Trump style BS to distract their supporters. In other words, we will become the shithole they think we are already.
    They'll go with keeping people unhappy and blaming an othered group for that unhappiness.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,137
    Nigelb said:

    There is, as this suggests, no existing US law which enables the designation of domestic organisations or groups as terrorist.

    There’s no legal mechanism under current U.S. law for a president to designate a domestic group as a terrorist organization. Also, Antifa (short for anti-fascist) is not a formal organization.
    https://x.com/steadystate2025/status/1968497749696913457

    The relevant current law comprises the Patriot Act:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

    And Bush's executive order 13224, which has renewed annually.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13224

    I don't know WTF the legal status of Trump's spew today might be.

    Doesn’t matter. L’état c’est lui.

    What’s the opposite of Antifa? “Profa”? Antiantifa? Simply “Fa”?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,496
    Can both major candidates be popular with the public? I know of one example in American politics, the 1952 presidential election, where Eisenhower and Stevenson were both popular with the public, though "Ike" far more so.

    Stevenson lost in a "landslide" -- but still won more votes than Truman had in 1948; in fact he won more votes than Truman + Thurmond + Wallace. (Both Thurmond and Wallace had been Democrats.)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,688
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    There is, as this suggests, no existing US law which enables the designation of domestic organisations or groups as terrorist.

    There’s no legal mechanism under current U.S. law for a president to designate a domestic group as a terrorist organization. Also, Antifa (short for anti-fascist) is not a formal organization.
    https://x.com/steadystate2025/status/1968497749696913457

    The relevant current law comprises the Patriot Act:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

    And Bush's executive order 13224, which has renewed annually.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13224

    I don't know WTF the legal status of Trump's spew today might be.

    Doesn’t matter. L’état c’est lui.

    What’s the opposite of Antifa? “Profa”? Antiantifa? Simply “Fa”?
    Sweet on fascism or sweetFA for short?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,423
    CatMan said:

    Some juicy gossip from the Telegraph via the Guardian Blog:

    "Ahead of the state visit, the Newsmax CEO Christopher Ruddy (see 10.11am) hosted a party attended by senior rightwing British politicians. In an article for the Daily Telegraph, Gordon Rayner says the event degenerated into a row between the senior Tories over record of the last government.

    After [Nigel] Farage, [Marco] Rubio and [Scott] Bessent had left to attend another event, the Tory big beasts and a smattering of Reform bigwigs sat down to an evening of dinner and civil war.

    [Boris] Johnson, [Liz] Truss, former transport secretary, Mark Harper, and broadcaster, Andrew Neil, argued about the Tories’ record in government, particularly on immigration, and what the future direction of travel should be.

    Jacob Rees-Mogg, who could be regarded as the current standard-bearer of uniting the Right, (he even attended the Reform conference this month), tried and failed to argue that they should all work together for the good of the country. Reform members smiled wryly as they watched the Tories tear lumps out of each other.

    There is a lot of talk in the UK at the moment from people how think the right can only win the next election if the Conservatives and Reform UK can somehow work together. The former Tory minister Steve Baker said only this week he thought some sort of deal was unacceptable.

    But Rayner suggests that will be difficult. Referring to Boris Johnson, he quotes a “senior Reform figure” as saying:

    [Johnson] elicits a visceral emotion in our members. One of the most consensual opinions among Reform members is that he was a disaster, and has already claimed the title of the man who ended the Conservative party’s chances of ever regaining power.

    If we let him join Reform, there would be an exodus of 99.9% of our members.
    "

    That's a damning assessment from the Right of Boris 'Golden Age' Johnson. It's mostly down to the Boris Wave presumably. (I can't see the movement of vaccine deniers and lockdown haters getting that het up over Party-Gate.)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,976
    boulay said:

    Selebian said:

    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?

    I like the attention to detail where someone has just lobbed one of the scatter cushions on the floor to start’s right and nobody thought to tidy it away for the big photo.
    Chairs are bogging , would only expect something like that in a 50's bungalow that had original owner still living in it. Horrific.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,128
    edited 12:07PM

    boulay said:

    Dopermean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    "71% of the public have an unfavourable rating with Brits"

    We hate each other ?

    Yes, that seems to be the core problem!
    Starmer has found a solution though. He sold UK plc to the Yanks for £150bn yesterday. Not a great price but he is not good at numbers. Now we will have to do what we are told, whether it is burning gas to feed AI data centres, abolishing the Digital tax or whatever. I think that America is allowing Parliament to remain as a decorative part of our constitution, which is a plus for political betting at least.
    Good morning

    The government are spinning the £150bn investment creating 75,000 jobs across the airwaves this morning

    When I heard 75,000 jobs for £150bn I assumed it was misspoken as I would want a whole lot more jobs for that investment, but it appears it is over 10 years on projects that have to pass design, planning and environmental issues and data centres that will consume vast quantities of electricity and water that is not readily available

    Add in the cost on consumers bills this seems much like the 1.5 million new homes, all smoke and mirrors

    I would suggest this investment would have happened anyway, but it is long term and in that long term is welcome but Starmer has less than 4 years and I doubt very little of it will be noticed by the public who are impatient for change

    And on Ed Davey, I don't generally comment too much about him because I respect many of the Lib Dems who post on here, but if I am being honest I wasn't impressed with his stunts and on policy I know and understand his crusade for carers, not least because of his own family issues, and on Europe and WASPI women but I have no idea what his tax and spending policies are and look on him mainly as representing an English, largely south based party, which is reflected when it comes to Wales, and to a degree Scotland, where he struggles to be relevant
    I'm surprised it's even 75,000 jobs if it's data centres.

    And the problem with modern data centres is they consume stupid amounts of power that they need 24/7/365. So where are the gWs of power to keep them online coming from.
    Don't they also need stupid amounts of water for cooling? Luckily there aren't any water shortages..
    Just use the Trent, erm, I see what you mean ...

    Are they going to build them on Rannoch Moor? No, not enough nice bistros for tech bros.

    Most data centres now used closed loop water cooling. Think air conditioning on a vast scale.

    That’s why they don’t have giant cooling towers belching clouds.
    Good - doesn't surprise me given their Usonian origins.
    Presumably air-cooling wouldn't be closed loop, so how would they capture that heat?
    It’s just heat exchange. Hot water comes out of the data centre cooling system. You can either dump the heat into air, or into people’s homes to heat them, or whatever. Then the water (now coldish) goes back to the data centre.
    As someone whose tech and engineering knowledge would make a Neanderthal blush with pity could I ask if the following has been considered and if so/not what are the things that would make it impossible.

    If they built data centres in modular waterproof “boxes” which were then anchored underwater in the North Sea, for example, couldn’t they massively reduce their need for electricity for cooling by benefiting from the cooler ambient temperatures of the deeper water and using the surrounding cold water to aid some sort of cooling system.

    I know it might all seem a bit 1960s underseasea kingdom with these worlds under the sea but they could be serviced from adapted closed rigs above for housing staff and kit.

    I’m probably going to look an absolute moron for suggesting as brighter minds have inevitably looked for options but thought I would ask anyway.
    Microsoft experimented with an underwater data centre. I am out on a walk, so cannot link to it, but Google is your friend.
    Now I'm back from the walk, here's some linkies
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Natick
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54146718

    It was actually off the coast of Orkney, and was *really* small in data centre terms.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,646
    Everything that angers people about Asylum seekers in one horrible story;

    Convicted terrorist
    Staying in a 4 star hotel at our expense
    Sexual predator
    Pretend PTSD
    Wife and kids back in Turkey
    Not a genuine asylum seeker

    An Egyptian asylum seeker who was jailed for raping a woman in London's Hyde Park is a convicted Islamic terrorist, it has emerged.

    Abdelrahmen Adnan Abouelela, 42, was found guilty in his absence of being part of a bomb-making cell in Egypt and given a seven-year jail sentence on May 5, 2015.

    Abouelela, a member of the radical Muslim Brotherhood movement, escaped from Egypt before being convicted.


    https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/hyde-park-rape-migrant-convicted-terrorist-5HjdDCW_2/
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,423
    malcolmg said:

    boulay said:

    Selebian said:

    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?

    I like the attention to detail where someone has just lobbed one of the scatter cushions on the floor to start’s right and nobody thought to tidy it away for the big photo.
    Chairs are bogging , would only expect something like that in a 50's bungalow that had original owner still living in it. Horrific.
    My grandad had chairs of identical design, though they were in a sort of crimson crushed velvet.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,646

    CatMan said:

    Some juicy gossip from the Telegraph via the Guardian Blog:

    "Ahead of the state visit, the Newsmax CEO Christopher Ruddy (see 10.11am) hosted a party attended by senior rightwing British politicians. In an article for the Daily Telegraph, Gordon Rayner says the event degenerated into a row between the senior Tories over record of the last government.

    After [Nigel] Farage, [Marco] Rubio and [Scott] Bessent had left to attend another event, the Tory big beasts and a smattering of Reform bigwigs sat down to an evening of dinner and civil war.

    [Boris] Johnson, [Liz] Truss, former transport secretary, Mark Harper, and broadcaster, Andrew Neil, argued about the Tories’ record in government, particularly on immigration, and what the future direction of travel should be.

    Jacob Rees-Mogg, who could be regarded as the current standard-bearer of uniting the Right, (he even attended the Reform conference this month), tried and failed to argue that they should all work together for the good of the country. Reform members smiled wryly as they watched the Tories tear lumps out of each other.

    There is a lot of talk in the UK at the moment from people how think the right can only win the next election if the Conservatives and Reform UK can somehow work together. The former Tory minister Steve Baker said only this week he thought some sort of deal was unacceptable.

    But Rayner suggests that will be difficult. Referring to Boris Johnson, he quotes a “senior Reform figure” as saying:

    [Johnson] elicits a visceral emotion in our members. One of the most consensual opinions among Reform members is that he was a disaster, and has already claimed the title of the man who ended the Conservative party’s chances of ever regaining power.

    If we let him join Reform, there would be an exodus of 99.9% of our members.
    "

    That's a damning assessment from the Right of Boris 'Golden Age' Johnson. It's mostly down to the Boris Wave presumably. (I can't see the movement of vaccine deniers and lockdown haters getting that het up over Party-Gate.)
    Boris is trying to claim that immigration didn’t go up on his watch! He had his chance and he blew it
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,136
    So the migrant we returned to France was an Indian national. We have a returns agreement with India:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migration-and-mobility-partnership/mou-on-migration-and-mobility-partnership-between-india-and-the-united-kingdom#chapter-4

    So I wonder if there are special circumstances?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,301
    edited 12:12PM

    malcolmg said:

    boulay said:

    Selebian said:

    Off-topic. These chairs at Chequers :hushed:

    image

    Not only do they look out of the 70s, or before, they also look kind of tiny. Are we that hard up?

    I like the attention to detail where someone has just lobbed one of the scatter cushions on the floor to start’s right and nobody thought to tidy it away for the big photo.
    Chairs are bogging , would only expect something like that in a 50's bungalow that had original owner still living in it. Horrific.
    My grandad had chairs of identical design, though they were in a sort of crimson crushed velvet.
    It could be worse. Boris could have had Lulu Lytle in.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,338
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    There is, as this suggests, no existing US law which enables the designation of domestic organisations or groups as terrorist.

    There’s no legal mechanism under current U.S. law for a president to designate a domestic group as a terrorist organization. Also, Antifa (short for anti-fascist) is not a formal organization.
    https://x.com/steadystate2025/status/1968497749696913457

    The relevant current law comprises the Patriot Act:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

    And Bush's executive order 13224, which has renewed annually.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13224

    I don't know WTF the legal status of Trump's spew today might be.

    Doesn’t matter. L’état c’est lui.

    What’s the opposite of Antifa? “Profa”? Antiantifa? Simply “Fa”?
    It’s “psycho killer fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa.”
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,261
    isam said:

    Everything that angers people about Asylum seekers in one horrible story;

    Convicted terrorist
    Staying in a 4 star hotel at our expense
    Sexual predator
    Pretend PTSD
    Wife and kids back in Turkey
    Not a genuine asylum seeker

    An Egyptian asylum seeker who was jailed for raping a woman in London's Hyde Park is a convicted Islamic terrorist, it has emerged.

    Abdelrahmen Adnan Abouelela, 42, was found guilty in his absence of being part of a bomb-making cell in Egypt and given a seven-year jail sentence on May 5, 2015.

    Abouelela, a member of the radical Muslim Brotherhood movement, escaped from Egypt before being convicted.


    https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/hyde-park-rape-migrant-convicted-terrorist-5HjdDCW_2/

    Jesus F C

    Just throw them all out. All of them. All the asylum seekers. And no more can come. How long should we tolerate this???
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,884
    CatMan said:

    Some juicy gossip from the Telegraph via the Guardian Blog:

    "Ahead of the state visit, the Newsmax CEO Christopher Ruddy (see 10.11am) hosted a party attended by senior rightwing British politicians. In an article for the Daily Telegraph, Gordon Rayner says the event degenerated into a row between the senior Tories over record of the last government.

    After [Nigel] Farage, [Marco] Rubio and [Scott] Bessent had left to attend another event, the Tory big beasts and a smattering of Reform bigwigs sat down to an evening of dinner and civil war.

    [Boris] Johnson, [Liz] Truss, former transport secretary, Mark Harper, and broadcaster, Andrew Neil, argued about the Tories’ record in government, particularly on immigration, and what the future direction of travel should be.

    Jacob Rees-Mogg, who could be regarded as the current standard-bearer of uniting the Right, (he even attended the Reform conference this month), tried and failed to argue that they should all work together for the good of the country. Reform members smiled wryly as they watched the Tories tear lumps out of each other.

    There is a lot of talk in the UK at the moment from people how think the right can only win the next election if the Conservatives and Reform UK can somehow work together. The former Tory minister Steve Baker said only this week he thought some sort of deal was unacceptable.

    But Rayner suggests that will be difficult. Referring to Boris Johnson, he quotes a “senior Reform figure” as saying:

    [Johnson] elicits a visceral emotion in our members. One of the most consensual opinions among Reform members is that he was a disaster, and has already claimed the title of the man who ended the Conservative party’s chances of ever regaining power.

    If we let him join Reform, there would be an exodus of 99.9% of our members.
    "

    The full Telegraph article:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/ea4c74acf47d1d29

    Scott Bessent was there as well to be involved in the plotting, so Trump sent his top man !!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,261
    One sentence from that terrible story sums up the dismal, treacherous state of affairs


    "The Home Office took 17 months to make a decision about his asylum application despite reportedly being aware of his bomb-making conviction, before he raped a woman in Hyde Park last November."

    ENOUGH
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,209
    Is NVidia looking to acquire its own domestic manufacturing capacity in the US ?

    Intel and NVIDIA to Jointly Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products
    https://newsroom.intel.com/artificial-intelligence/intel-and-nvidia-to-jointly-develop-ai-infrastructure-and-personal-computing-products

    A very big deal for Intel, in any event.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,884

    carnforth said:

    So the migrant we returned to France was an Indian national. We have a returns agreement with India:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migration-and-mobility-partnership/mou-on-migration-and-mobility-partnership-between-india-and-the-united-kingdom#chapter-4

    So I wonder if there are special circumstances?

    The special circumstance is that they needed to find someone to return to France to get the ball rolling so they could say that they'd started.
    Is it technically possible for the "one in" to be the same as the "one out" after they have gone to the embassy to make a request for asylum?

    That would wind up the press.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,523
    Nigelb said:

    Is NVidia looking to acquire its own domestic manufacturing capacity in the US ?

    Intel and NVIDIA to Jointly Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products
    https://newsroom.intel.com/artificial-intelligence/intel-and-nvidia-to-jointly-develop-ai-infrastructure-and-personal-computing-products

    A very big deal for Intel, in any event.

    Probably 25% political, currying favour with Trump, 25% hedging their bets in case Xi attacks Taiwan, 25% to give them more negotiating power with TSMC, and maybe 25% that Intel actually has a competitive node able of meeting some of the crazy demand for Nvidia GPUs.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,479
    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


    Instead of adjusting his seat to match his economics, Farage will adjust his message and plans to conform with the wishes of the voters of Clacton and a few hundred other seats. There isn't a single seat in the UK which actually wants significantly lower levels of state managed expenditure. Nationalist social democracy + closed borders (+ high tax but whisper it quietly) here we come.
    Clacton contains Jaywick, which is one of the worst places to live in England, and Frinton, which is a genteel, little seaside town. Both of those demographics play well for a Reform. It was also the most Leave friendly seat in the country I think, so it wasn’t that odd a choice by Farage.
    Neither Jaywick nor Frinton will want cuts to expenditure on their pensions, welfare and NHS. The demographics play well for electing Reform, but not for continuing to do so if they go for the small state. The question is whether Reform want to be elected once or more than once.

  • isamisam Posts: 42,646
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Everything that angers people about Asylum seekers in one horrible story;

    Convicted terrorist
    Staying in a 4 star hotel at our expense
    Sexual predator
    Pretend PTSD
    Wife and kids back in Turkey
    Not a genuine asylum seeker

    An Egyptian asylum seeker who was jailed for raping a woman in London's Hyde Park is a convicted Islamic terrorist, it has emerged.

    Abdelrahmen Adnan Abouelela, 42, was found guilty in his absence of being part of a bomb-making cell in Egypt and given a seven-year jail sentence on May 5, 2015.

    Abouelela, a member of the radical Muslim Brotherhood movement, escaped from Egypt before being convicted.


    https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/hyde-park-rape-migrant-convicted-terrorist-5HjdDCW_2/

    Jesus F C

    Just throw them all out. All of them. All the asylum seekers. And no more can come. How long should we tolerate this???
    I wonder whether there is a Christian group trying to get kids into both God & Football called Jesus FC?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,766
    Nigelb said:

    Is NVidia looking to acquire its own domestic manufacturing capacity in the US ?

    Intel and NVIDIA to Jointly Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products
    https://newsroom.intel.com/artificial-intelligence/intel-and-nvidia-to-jointly-develop-ai-infrastructure-and-personal-computing-products

    A very big deal for Intel, in any event.

    Yes, Intel avoids extinction with this deal. If the node does turn out to be competitive and they've got Nvidia in the bag for it then they'll get other players too. Qualcomm and Apple will probably have a lot of pressure applied to take 14A alongside TSMC 2nm if it's competitive enough and Intel can prove they're able to deliver to Nvidia.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,479
    edited 12:40PM

    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


    Instead of adjusting his seat to match his economics, Farage will adjust his message and plans to conform with the wishes of the voters of Clacton and a few hundred other seats. There isn't a single seat in the UK which actually wants significantly lower levels of state managed expenditure. Nationalist social democracy + closed borders (+ high tax but whisper it quietly) here we come.
    Sounds amazing. Although I think Reform will actually go for Truss style unfunded tax cuts along with some assault on the welfare state. Cue rage among Reform voters in Clackton, Skeggie etc combined with a bond market revolt. No doubt combined with plenty of Trump style BS to distract their supporters. In other words, we will become the shithole they think we are already.
    These two prognostications encompass what is most important about Reform. In a sense the difference between us is that I think Reform, if they win in 2029, will want to win again in 2023/4, and you think that Reform will knowingly trash the state and burn the crops and villages in emulation of Truss, knowing that this will make it impossible to win in 2033/4.

    In a sense there is no evidence either way, and there probably won't be until we see the 2029 manifesto. But the question deserves high quality journalistic scrutiny. Andrew Neil's take on it will be interesting. The question of how Reform would actually govern is getting scant attention.
    The thing about Truss is that she didn't think she was burning the country down or precluding her chance of reelection. Reform may well think that a bit of Truss style supply side tax cuts will ultimately pay dividends even if the bond market isn't keen at first. They might think that the only way they get reelected is to do something radical and different. They may also judge that they can cut welfare in ways that leaves their winning coalition largely intact, especially if they also go big on all the other stuff their supporters like on 'woke' etc. Certainly, when Reform talk to people in the City they talk up the tax and spending cuts.
    I think the agenda is: get elected without scaring off the elderly welfare junkies and hoping to escape scrutiny (easy because nobody listens to experts or independent media); do some radical tax and spending cuts, hoping they can ride out bond market and political ructions; hope to win next time on a 'yes it hurt yes it worked' message combined with other populist BS. Maybe it will work.
    Maybe. The crucial test would come in 2033/4. However, some flesh needs to go on the predictions.

    My view: Three/four years into a Reform government Total Managed Expenditure will not (taking inflation into account) be reduced by more than 1% compared with now (now is about £1.4 trillion).

    TME will be about the same - within 1% point - as a % of GDP as now (now being about 44.5%.)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,322
    algarkirk said:

    isam said:

    algarkirk said:

    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader, but also the second-most unpopular (based on the chart in the header). You know who else was Marmite and how many general elections she won?

    And we have independent confirmation of Farage's popularity in his declared earnings of tens of thousands a month from recording personal greetings – remember Up the Ra!

    Reportedly it is closer to hundreds of thousands:

    Mr Farage's register of interests revealed that he made £27,342 from the service in December (2024), almost double the amount he has previously registered for a single month.

    He spent 28 hours - more than three full average working days - filming hundreds of messages on top of his work as an Essex MP and Reform leader, giving him an hourly pay rate of £977.

    ..
    Since the election, Mr Farage has registered more than £81,000 he has made from Cameo alone.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14360025/Nigel-Farage-27k-Cameo-Christmas-bonus-Reform-UK-Christmas-morning.html

    (I think he started around 20-21.)
    Cameo is good outside income. I can’t see there is a conflict / providing a harmless service to his fans and getting well paid. I’d take £81k for a weekend’s work.
    That's fair comment.

    But it depends on reporting etc. his ability to do three or four jobs whilst attending to his constituents in Clacton, and has potential optics problems for Reform UK.
    Went looking for the Indices of Multiple Deprivation for Clacton and found this. There are some serious issues with crime, low income families, and u-16's with low educational attainment. Seems an odd choice of seat for his brand of economics. Alternatively there will be a chicken run in the next few years years.


    Instead of adjusting his seat to match his economics, Farage will adjust his message and plans to conform with the wishes of the voters of Clacton and a few hundred other seats. There isn't a single seat in the UK which actually wants significantly lower levels of state managed expenditure. Nationalist social democracy + closed borders (+ high tax but whisper it quietly) here we come.
    Clacton contains Jaywick, which is one of the worst places to live in England, and Frinton, which is a genteel, little seaside town. Both of those demographics play well for a Reform. It was also the most Leave friendly seat in the country I think, so it wasn’t that odd a choice by Farage.
    Neither Jaywick nor Frinton will want cuts to expenditure on their pensions, welfare and NHS. The demographics play well for electing Reform, but not for continuing to do so if they go for the small state. The question is whether Reform want to be elected once or more than once.

    Clacton result in 202x will be interesting. How will Farage fare versus 2024 and versus Carswell's defence of it for UKIP 2015?
    He will obviously win but does he get the sort of vote Giles Watling got in 2019? And do the Tories retain ca 30% and remain the alternative
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