I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
It pays to be a good ally. Denmark yesterday announced our biggest defence investment ever. We will buy air defence for 8 billion euros, and it will all come from European producers. It has been a strong political desire to buy from reliable and non-threatening partners. https://x.com/RasmusJarlov/status/1966823259728736516
Denmark will bypass more than 20 laws and regulations to allow 🇺🇦Ukrainian company Fire Point to build a solid rocket fuel plant near Skridstrup air base, — DR.
The government will use a special law that allows it to ignore environmental and building codes for defense needs. Fire Point will also be temporarily exempted from rules on controlling the risks of major accidents. The authorities promise constant supervision and a gradual bringing of the plant to standard requirements. https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967222535830815159
"Kirk Shooting Suspect Held 'Leftist Ideology,' Utah Governor Says Gov. Spencer Cox said the suspect had been "radicalized," and noted he had a romantic partner who is transitioning from male to female who is cooperating fully with investigators."
The mental gymnastics can finally end. The assassin was a radical leftist and it looks like he planned the assassination on discord with a transgender furry group who are now all being rounded up by the FBI.
I've got some insider sources that say the shooter took the Transpennine Express from Chester-le-Street to Redcar in 2019.
Nothing insider about it, this is all over the internet already. The intrepid users of /pol/ already found his Steam ID, Discord ID and channels he was in, they found his associates and infiltrated the private groups he was in and posted it all online last night which prompted the FBI investigation.
I mean even the Telegraph is reporting the Discord group chat and his joking posts in there after he'd done the assassination, give the media another couple of days and they'll catch up. Though I suspect the leftist media will attempt to muddy the water or just stop reporting it entirely.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Interesting comparison between Liverpool FC and Manchester United is the completely different legacy of succession when it comes to Managers at the two clubs.
Slot succeeding Klopp as a league title winner follows a good history throughout Liverpool's history of having successive Managers bringing success.
Slot followed Klopp.
Dalglish followed Fagan who followed Paisley who followed Shankly. The famous Boot Room.
In the interwar period, McQueen followed Ashworth.
In contrast, Man Utd have never had a successful transition. Ever.
Mangnall pre WWI. Busby postwar. Ferguson.
Those are the only ever first division title winners, with a long period in the wilderness between. Indeed after Mangnall and Busby they were eventually relegated before seeing success again, so getting into a relegation scrap now is par for the course.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Plenty of that is out of context. Eg (if I knew that forty per cent of airline pilots were picked because they were black due to DEI) then if I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified
And what of it is "vile"?
I don't agree with it all. But I know that he just wanted to talk about it
"We record all of it so that we put [it] on the internet so people can see these ideas collide. When people stop talking, that’s when you get violence. That’s when civil war happens, because you start to think the other side is so evil, and they lose their humanity."
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
The strictly curse is supposed to be during the competition not before it. I think we know why he went mental during the press day now, clearly the media had the story.
Any thought he might turn his popular social media to politics is definitely ki-boshed now.
"Kirk Shooting Suspect Held 'Leftist Ideology,' Utah Governor Says Gov. Spencer Cox said the suspect had been "radicalized," and noted he had a romantic partner who is transitioning from male to female who is cooperating fully with investigators."
The mental gymnastics can finally end. The assassin was a radical leftist and it looks like he planned the assassination on discord with a transgender furry group who are now all being rounded up by the FBI.
I've got some insider sources that say the shooter took the Transpennine Express from Chester-le-Street to Redcar in 2019.
Nothing insider about it, this is all over the internet already. The intrepid users of /pol/ already found his Steam ID, Discord ID and channels he was in, they found his associates and infiltrated the private groups he was in and posted it all online last night which prompted the FBI investigation.
I mean even the Telegraph is reporting the Discord group chat and his joking posts in there after he'd done the assassination, give the media another couple of days and they'll catch up. Though I suspect the leftist media will attempt to muddy the water or just stop reporting it entirely.
Taz lives in Chester-le-Street and going to Redcar would explain his depression...
The strictly curse is supposed to be during the competition not before it. I think we know why he went mental during the press day now, clearly the media had the story.
Any thought he might turn his popular social media to politics is definitely ki-boshed now.
In this timeline? Really? The Greens just elected a leader who hypnotised women to make their boobs bigger. I think all bets are off.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
I know well the area where she grew up and went to school (and became Head Girl). Working class it is not. Going on to read classics at Cambridge, joining the Goldmans Grad scheme, a quick detour as a Tory spad and then a safe shire seat… there is nothing inherently wrong with any of this. But this is very far from the fresh approach that you claim.
On-topic, though. Similar to Burnham in some ways. Superficially fresh face and clean hands, said some things that appeal to the selectorate, but not really plausible. (In Lam's case, get back to us in half a decade, preferably a decade.)
That we're talking about Andy and Katie tells of the general cheesed-offness we all have with all politicians on general. Even Ed Davey is being sniped at;
Farage owning his party so he can't be sacked is both bizarre and actually quite practical.
I thought Ed Davey should stand down before the next election if only because matching the result from last time would be rather challenging, they won practically all their target seats.
They now have a fair few new target seats... for every three Tory MPs there are two Lib Dems, and Davey only has to take 29 MPs from the Tories and hold what he has and he becomes the Leader of the Opposition. Not to mention that the average Tory majority is lower than the average Tory one. The general feeling is that while RefUk and the Cons batter each other, the Lib Dems can come through in a number of seats. The poll ratings for the Lib Dems have been pretty solid and the local by elections stronger still.
Ed still has plenty to play for, and he still seems to be enjoying the job. Obviously the health of his son and wife comes first, but he seems still up for the fight to me.
The strictly curse is supposed to be during the competition not before it. I think we know why he went mental during the press day now, clearly the media had the story.
Any thought he might turn his popular social media to politics is definitely ki-boshed now.
In this timeline? Really? The Greens just elected a leader who hypnotised women to make their boobs bigger. I think all bets are off.
But his whole brand was he was a naughty boy done good and now a hard working family man giving positive messages out on socials.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
I know well the area where she grew up and went to school (and became Head Girl). Working class it is not. Going on to read classics at Cambridge, joining the Goldmans Grad scheme, a quick detour as a Tory spad and then a safe shire seat… there is nothing inherently wrong with any of this. But this is very far from the fresh approach that you claim.
On-topic, though. Similar to Burnham in some ways. Superficially fresh face and clean hands, said some things that appeal to the selectorate, but not really plausible. (In Lam's case, get back to us in half a decade, preferably a decade.)
That we're talking about Andy and Katie tells of the general cheesed-offness we all have with all politicians on general. Even Ed Davey is being sniped at;
Farage owning his party so he can't be sacked is both bizarre and actually quite practical.
I thought Ed Davey should stand down before the next election if only because matching the result from last time would be rather challenging, they won practically all their target seats.
They now have a fair few new target seats... for every three Tory MPs there are two Lib Dems, and Davey only has to take 29 MPs from the Tories and hold what he has and he becomes the Leader of the Opposition. Not to mention that the average Tory majority is lower than the average Tory one. The general feeling is that while RefUk and the Cons batter each other, the Lib Dems can come through in a number of seats. The poll ratings for the Lib Dems have been pretty solid and the local by elections stronger still.
Ed still has plenty to play for, and he still seems to be enjoying the job. Obviously the health of his son and wife comes first, but he seems still up for the fight to me.
Similar to 2010, the next election could see the Lib Dems get into government even if they win fewer seats than last time. I think Lib Dems would form a coalition with Labour, particularly if the alternative was a Reform govt.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Again I don't agree with the view, but if you believe as he did that life begins at conception and that abortion is murder, its the logical and right opinion to take.
It is a repugnant scenario, but his response is his view, not vile.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Plenty of that is out of context. Eg (if I knew that forty per cent of airline pilots were picked because they were black due to DEI) then if I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified
And what of it is "vile"?
I don't agree with it all. But I know that he just wanted to talk about it
"We record all of it so that we put [it] on the internet so people can see these ideas collide. When people stop talking, that’s when you get violence. That’s when civil war happens, because you start to think the other side is so evil, and they lose their humanity."
You asked for one or two examples. I demonstrated using a Guardian article that gave a number of examples demonstrating why I believe Mr Kirk's views were in my opinion quite repulsive. You have confirmed that they weren't "vile"so I suppose we will have agreed to disagree.
I have at no time condoned the assassination of Mr Kirk, but should he be a martyr? No.
I know everyone has their zones of interest but genuinely I have no idea who Thomas Skinner or Narinder are.
I'm still not sure who the "Kirk" guy is either - first I'd heard of the name was on here saying he'd been shot. I feel like I don't follow US politics enough to keep track of all the screaming and shooting.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
If you believe abortion is murder, then just because someone is raped doesn't justify murdering an innocent. If someone doesnt want the reminder then the baby could be put up for adoption etc.
I am of the opposite extreme, I believe life begins at birth, so I think abortion should be legal and available until that point. While I vehemently disagree with Kirk’s views, I don't consider them vile, they are the principled consequences of his views.
You should be capable of disagreeing with people without calling those you disagree with vile.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
It's not vile, it's disagreeable. He's perfectly welcome to hold this beliefs and argue in favour of them and we are capable of disagreeing and arguing against. Isn't this what debating people is about? He holds views you disagree with so have the debate, don't try and shut it down with words like "vile" which doesn't change anyone's mind, in fact I'd say it does the opposite.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
Which is why I think abortion should be legal until birth.
Those who don't agree with you and me, are entitled to disagree us though.
Many people here want a messy compromise whereby abortion is legal until a set number of weeks, then a woman past that point is forced to continue to carry the baby, even if she didn't know she was pregnant until the point had been passed.
I don't see why forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy at 25 weeks is any more humane that forcing her to carry it at week 5.
I don't think those who disagree with me are vile though, they just have different principles. In a free society, people are entitled to have different principles.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
It's not vile, it's disagreeable. He's perfectly welcome to hold this beliefs and argue in favour of them and we are capable of disagreeing and arguing against. Isn't this what debating people is about? He holds views you disagree with so have the debate, don't try and shut it down with words like "vile" which doesn't change anyone's mind, in fact I'd say it does the opposite.
"Kirk Shooting Suspect Held 'Leftist Ideology,' Utah Governor Says Gov. Spencer Cox said the suspect had been "radicalized," and noted he had a romantic partner who is transitioning from male to female who is cooperating fully with investigators."
The mental gymnastics can finally end. The assassin was a radical leftist and it looks like he planned the assassination on discord with a transgender furry group who are now all being rounded up by the FBI.
I've got some insider sources that say the shooter took the Transpennine Express from Chester-le-Street to Redcar in 2019.
Anyone who doesn't get off at Saltburn and ends up in Redcar deserves what they get.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
What's disturbing to me is that this air of celebration seems to be about encouraging other radical leftists to take up arms and assassinate other prominent right wingers. Yet I doubt that celebratory attitude will last if the opposite happens and the radical right take up their guns and start mowing down prominent left wingers.
Condoning this kind of violence just seems to be opening such an awful door and where does the line get drawn, who draws that line? I'm at a loss to understand why people would cheer this on, because they disagreed with him. Will these same people cheer when some random right winger targets Owen Jones?! I doubt it, yet that's what the door is being opened for and it's such a dangerous one to open up. Their attitude is completely self defeating too because in the US, at least, it's the right wingers that have all the guns and it's the right wingers that hold control over the military. I don't know what the thought process is, maybe they're just so stupid they can't see what it is they're encouraging.
The strictly curse is supposed to be during the competition not before it. I think we know why he went mental during the press day now, clearly the media had the story.
Any thought he might turn his popular social media to politics is definitely ki-boshed now.
In this timeline? Really? The Greens just elected a leader who hypnotised women to make their boobs bigger.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
It's not vile, it's disagreeable. He's perfectly welcome to hold this beliefs and argue in favour of them and we are capable of disagreeing and arguing against. Isn't this what debating people is about? He holds views you disagree with so have the debate, don't try and shut it down with words like "vile" which doesn't change anyone's mind, in fact I'd say it does the opposite.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
It's not vile, it's disagreeable. He's perfectly welcome to hold this beliefs and argue in favour of them and we are capable of disagreeing and arguing against. Isn't this what debating people is about? He holds views you disagree with so have the debate, don't try and shut it down with words like "vile" which doesn't change anyone's mind, in fact I'd say it does the opposite.
You think you’re so clever, but you’re not. You’re just a hypocrite. You shut down any discussion on trans rights in exactly the same way, for example.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
What's disturbing to me is that this air of celebration seems to be about encouraging other radical leftists to take up arms and assassinate other prominent right wingers. Yet I doubt that celebratory attitude will last if the opposite happens and the radical right take up their guns and start mowing down prominent left wingers.
Condoning this kind of violence just seems to be opening such an awful door and where does the line get drawn, who draws that line? I'm at a loss to understand why people would cheer this on, because they disagreed with him. Will these same people cheer when some random right winger targets Owen Jones?! I doubt it, yet that's what the door is being opened for and it's such a dangerous one to open up. Their attitude is completely self defeating too because in the US, at least, it's the right wingers that have all the guns and it's the right wingers that hold control over the military. I don't know what the thought process is, maybe they're just so stupid they can't see what it is they're encouraging.
Left-wingers have already been assassinated, for example the Minnesota Democrat Melissa Hortman and her husband, exactly three months ago today.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations being some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
"Kirk Shooting Suspect Held 'Leftist Ideology,' Utah Governor Says Gov. Spencer Cox said the suspect had been "radicalized," and noted he had a romantic partner who is transitioning from male to female who is cooperating fully with investigators."
The mental gymnastics can finally end. The assassin was a radical leftist and it looks like he planned the assassination on discord with a transgender furry group who are now all being rounded up by the FBI.
I've got some insider sources that say the shooter took the Transpennine Express from Chester-le-Street to Redcar in 2019.
Anyone who doesn't get off at Saltburn and ends up in Redcar deserves what they get.
I caught a Transpennine Express the other day and was pleasantly surprised, reserved seats, a luggage rack you can actually fit luggage in, on time, and a fairly new train without the stuffing hanging out of the seats. Certainly an improvement
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
The strictly curse is supposed to be during the competition not before it. I think we know why he went mental during the press day now, clearly the media had the story.
Any thought he might turn his popular social media to politics is definitely ki-boshed now.
In this timeline? Really? The Greens just elected a leader who hypnotised women to make their boobs bigger.
Does it work? I can see that being quite popular
Once upon a time, Boris suggested voting Tory ""will cause your wife to have bigger breasts and increase your chances of owning a BMW M3."
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
It's not vile, it's disagreeable. He's perfectly welcome to hold this beliefs and argue in favour of them and we are capable of disagreeing and arguing against. Isn't this what debating people is about? He holds views you disagree with so have the debate, don't try and shut it down with words like "vile" which doesn't change anyone's mind, in fact I'd say it does the opposite.
You think you’re so clever, but you’re not. You’re just a hypocrite. You shut down any discussion on trans rights in exactly the same way, for example.
No I don't, people are free to say what they want, I'm free to disagree with them. I even said after the court victory for biology that the trans lobby was free to campaign for a change in the law, I just didn't think they'd get anywhere because public opinion has moved decisively in favour of biology.
What's actually happened is that people who were on the fence about the subject have shifted in favour of biological reality so the discussion about transgender stuff has just become less prominent and less common.
If anything you'll find the last few threads on this subject will have few to no posts from me because I've just opted out now that the argument has been won in the courts and among the wider public. I consider the subject closed until such time as the existing protections granted to biological women by the courts come under threat.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I cannot accept there is any humanity in someone who will force a woman who suffered the trauma of rape to then be forced to carry that child against their will .
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Plenty of that is out of context. Eg (if I knew that forty per cent of airline pilots were picked because they were black due to DEI) then if I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified
And what of it is "vile"?
I don't agree with it all. But I know that he just wanted to talk about it
"We record all of it so that we put [it] on the internet so people can see these ideas collide. When people stop talking, that’s when you get violence. That’s when civil war happens, because you start to think the other side is so evil, and they lose their humanity."
You asked for one or two examples. I demonstrated using a Guardian article that gave a number of examples demonstrating why I believe Mr Kirk's views were in my opinion quite repulsive. You have confirmed that they weren't "vile"so I suppose we will have agreed to disagree.
I have at no time condoned the assassination of Mr Kirk, but should he be a martyr? No.
And there's an elegant debate club game here as well.
Many of the things Kirk said were, written down in isolation, debatable. A lot of the repulsiveness of his stated views comes from them all coming out of one mouth.
His death diminishes is all. But I can't say that his views, or his pro-am debate style were an adornment to society.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
Now who do you think Katie models herself on? Seems to make a few people go weak at the knees.
I cannot accept there is any humanity in someone who will force a woman who suffered the trauma of rape to then be forced to carry that child against their will .
There isn't - it was one of the stories continually used in Ireland during the abortion referendum because most people couldn't bear the idea of it happening to someone they knew..
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
Which is why I think abortion should be legal until birth.
Those who don't agree with you and me, are entitled to disagree us though.
Many people here want a messy compromise whereby abortion is legal until a set number of weeks, then a woman past that point is forced to continue to carry the baby, even if she didn't know she was pregnant until the point had been passed.
I don't see why forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy at 25 weeks is any more humane that forcing her to carry it at week 5.
I don't think those who disagree with me are vile though, they just have different principles. In a free society, people are entitled to have different principles.
Why not post birth abortion?
24 weeks is based on the in independent viability of the foetus.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
What's disturbing to me is that this air of celebration seems to be about encouraging other radical leftists to take up arms and assassinate other prominent right wingers. Yet I doubt that celebratory attitude will last if the opposite happens and the radical right take up their guns and start mowing down prominent left wingers.
Condoning this kind of violence just seems to be opening such an awful door and where does the line get drawn, who draws that line? I'm at a loss to understand why people would cheer this on, because they disagreed with him. Will these same people cheer when some random right winger targets Owen Jones?! I doubt it, yet that's what the door is being opened for and it's such a dangerous one to open up. Their attitude is completely self defeating too because in the US, at least, it's the right wingers that have all the guns and it's the right wingers that hold control over the military. I don't know what the thought process is, maybe they're just so stupid they can't see what it is they're encouraging.
Distasteful commentary is not just from the left.
The Minnesota assassination were used by Republican law makers as an attempt to undermine Tim Walz.
"Kirk Shooting Suspect Held 'Leftist Ideology,' Utah Governor Says Gov. Spencer Cox said the suspect had been "radicalized," and noted he had a romantic partner who is transitioning from male to female who is cooperating fully with investigators."
The mental gymnastics can finally end. The assassin was a radical leftist and it looks like he planned the assassination on discord with a transgender furry group who are now all being rounded up by the FBI.
I've got some insider sources that say the shooter took the Transpennine Express from Chester-le-Street to Redcar in 2019.
Anyone who doesn't get off at Saltburn and ends up in Redcar deserves what they get.
Redcar comes first, neither have ticket barriers IIRC. A Jenrick-free zone, though one of the stations on that line has rubbish access for cyclists. I can't remember which, I was mostly drunk on that trip.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
Which is why I think abortion should be legal until birth.
Those who don't agree with you and me, are entitled to disagree us though.
Many people here want a messy compromise whereby abortion is legal until a set number of weeks, then a woman past that point is forced to continue to carry the baby, even if she didn't know she was pregnant until the point had been passed.
I don't see why forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy at 25 weeks is any more humane that forcing her to carry it at week 5.
I don't think those who disagree with me are vile though, they just have different principles. In a free society, people are entitled to have different principles.
Now I am pro abortion to an extent, it’s a terrible terrible thing to do and to have to consider doing. But the idea of abortion to birth is utterly fucked up.
I don’t have children but I have nephews and nieces, I saw them just after birth and they were little human beings. Up to birth is accepting, frankly, the murder of a fully functional human being.
For what.
If you have gone that far and still have no desire to keep the child there are thousands of people who want a child and would love it.
I’m really sorry but I can never take anything you say to be cloaked in the slightest level of intelligent thought if you think “abortion up to birth” is in any way civilised or human.
You are a very basic maximalist who has no sense of nuance in any of your arguments on here. I will stop there before I tell you what I really think of you on that view. Look at your own children right now and consider your wife deciding she doesn’t want them a week before they were born.
I cannot accept there is any humanity in someone who will force a woman who suffered the trauma of rape to then be forced to carry that child against their will .
I'm in favour of abortion on demand, but "you can't have abortion except in cases of rape" makes no sense to me. How is it the child's fault? Just be against it or for it.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
Which is why I think abortion should be legal until birth.
Those who don't agree with you and me, are entitled to disagree us though.
Many people here want a messy compromise whereby abortion is legal until a set number of weeks, then a woman past that point is forced to continue to carry the baby, even if she didn't know she was pregnant until the point had been passed.
I don't see why forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy at 25 weeks is any more humane that forcing her to carry it at week 5.
I don't think those who disagree with me are vile though, they just have different principles. In a free society, people are entitled to have different principles.
Why not post birth abortion?
24 weeks is based on the in independent viability of the foetus.
Post-birth because then you actually have a living, independent person in their own body.
Can a woman who is 25 weeks pregnant and does not desire to be pregnant seek to have the baby delivered as an alternative to abortion, if it is so-called independently viable? Or will the NHS refuse to deliver at 25 weeks if its not medically necessary as it is unsafe to do so, thus forcing the woman to continue with an unwanted pregnancy?
Its entirely reasonable to cease to offer abortion if delivery is an alternative option, but if its not then abortion should be an option. Either way there should be a way to terminate a pregnancy until birth, with either abortion or delivery as means of terminating it.
No woman should be compelled to be pregnant against her will. That's my view at least.
"Kirk Shooting Suspect Held 'Leftist Ideology,' Utah Governor Says Gov. Spencer Cox said the suspect had been "radicalized," and noted he had a romantic partner who is transitioning from male to female who is cooperating fully with investigators."
The mental gymnastics can finally end. The assassin was a radical leftist and it looks like he planned the assassination on discord with a transgender furry group who are now all being rounded up by the FBI.
I've got some insider sources that say the shooter took the Transpennine Express from Chester-le-Street to Redcar in 2019.
Anyone who doesn't get off at Saltburn and ends up in Redcar deserves what they get.
Redcar comes first, neither have ticket barriers IIRC. A Jenrick-free zone.
Surely if you don't get off at Redcar, you end up in Saltburn, the latter being the current terminus.
"Kirk Shooting Suspect Held 'Leftist Ideology,' Utah Governor Says Gov. Spencer Cox said the suspect had been "radicalized," and noted he had a romantic partner who is transitioning from male to female who is cooperating fully with investigators."
The mental gymnastics can finally end. The assassin was a radical leftist and it looks like he planned the assassination on discord with a transgender furry group who are now all being rounded up by the FBI.
I've got some insider sources that say the shooter took the Transpennine Express from Chester-le-Street to Redcar in 2019.
Anyone who doesn't get off at Saltburn and ends up in Redcar deserves what they get.
Redcar comes first, neither have ticket barriers IIRC. A Jenrick-free zone.
Surely if you don't get off at Redcar, you end up in Saltburn, the latter being the current terminus.
Forgive me! I have only been to Saltburn and Redcar by car, and misunderstood the order...
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
Which is why I think abortion should be legal until birth.
Those who don't agree with you and me, are entitled to disagree us though.
Many people here want a messy compromise whereby abortion is legal until a set number of weeks, then a woman past that point is forced to continue to carry the baby, even if she didn't know she was pregnant until the point had been passed.
I don't see why forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy at 25 weeks is any more humane that forcing her to carry it at week 5.
I don't think those who disagree with me are vile though, they just have different principles. In a free society, people are entitled to have different principles.
Now I am pro abortion to an extent, it’s a terrible terrible thing to do and to have to consider doing. But the idea of abortion to birth is utterly fucked up.
I don’t have children but I have nephews and nieces, I saw them just after birth and they were little human beings. Up to birth is accepting, frankly, the murder of a fully functional human being.
For what.
If you have gone that far and still have no desire to keep the child there are thousands of people who want a child and would love it.
I’m really sorry but I can never take anything you say to be cloaked in the slightest level of intelligent thought if you think “abortion up to birth” is in any way civilised or human.
You are a very basic maximalist who has no sense of nuance in any of your arguments on here. I will stop there before I tell you what I really think of you on that view. Look at your own children right now and consider your wife deciding she doesn’t want them a week before they were born.
I agree its utterly fucked up, but compelling a woman to be pregnant against her will is fucked up too.
If the alternative is delivery instead of abortion then I'm OK with that. Saying "we are at the point this baby is viable, we will deliver it today and put it up for adoption" then I'm fine with that.
Saying "we are at the point this baby is viable, so you need to go home and continue to be pregnant for five more months, whether you desire to be pregnant or not" is not OK in my eyes.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
Which is why I think abortion should be legal until birth.
Those who don't agree with you and me, are entitled to disagree us though.
Many people here want a messy compromise whereby abortion is legal until a set number of weeks, then a woman past that point is forced to continue to carry the baby, even if she didn't know she was pregnant until the point had been passed.
I don't see why forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy at 25 weeks is any more humane that forcing her to carry it at week 5.
I don't think those who disagree with me are vile though, they just have different principles. In a free society, people are entitled to have different principles.
Why not post birth abortion?
24 weeks is based on the in independent viability of the foetus.
The American right is pro post-birth abortion, via the method of randomised school shootings.
Apparently there have been 11,000 applications to Turning Point USA to open a chapter at schools and college campuses across the US. The spread of right wing ideology among American young people is going to have rocket boosters attached to it over the next decade. This will end up being Charlie Kirk's legacy, delivering Gen Z and Gen Alpha to the right wing.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
Now who do you think Katie models herself on? Seems to make a few people go weak at the knees.
Eerily familiar.
Couple that with the Top Professional Services skill of 'providing a fat analysis of why your terrible idea is brilliant, especially if you tweak it like this', and she'll go all the way.
(If I were one of Lam's enemies, I'd be looking for pairs of photos where Lam looks like Thatcher and Thatcher looks like Truss, and leave out the middle person.)
Apparently there have been 11,000 applications to Turning Point USA to open a chapter at schools and college campuses across the US. The spread of right wing ideology among American young people is going to have rocket boosters attached to it over the next decade. This will end up being Charlie Kirk's legacy, delivering Gen Z and Gen Alpha to the right wing.
Does Turning Point offer money to schools offering such chapters? If so it really doesn't surprise me given how poor some school districts are..
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
What the actual fuck has happened here?
No different from companies not wanting to keep employing people who are racist or homophobic.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
What the actual fuck has happened here?
Remember for left wingers words are violence so me or you saying that men in dresses aren't women is the same level as actually killing someone and deserving of the same punishment. They've literally accused JK Rowling of committing a transgender genocide, it's truly laughable.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
What the actual fuck has happened here?
Remember for left wingers words are violence so me or you saying that men in dresses aren't women is the same level as actually killing someone and deserving of the same punishment. They've literally accused JK Rowling of committing a transgender genocide, it's truly laughable.
Exactly three months ago today, a right-winger assassinated Melissa Hortman and her husband.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
What the actual fuck has happened here?
No different from companies not wanting to keep employing people who are racist or homophobic.
The whole thing has exposed who are the real snowflakes. Shoes on the other foot and MAGA don't like.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
What the actual fuck has happened here?
No different from companies not wanting to keep employing people who are racist or homophobic.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
What the actual fuck has happened here?
No different from companies not wanting to keep employing people who are racist or homophobic.
I don't think that I've ever disagreed with that
Well fair enough. But a lot of “right wingers” did complain when people got sacked for bleating on social media. For what it’s worth I don’t blame companies for sacking employees for celebrating Charlie Kirk’s death. Stupid thing to do.
I cannot accept there is any humanity in someone who will force a woman who suffered the trauma of rape to then be forced to carry that child against their will .
I'm in favour of abortion on demand, but "you can't have abortion except in cases of rape" makes no sense to me. How is it the child's fault? Just be against it or for it.
I think you’re misunderstanding my post. I’m pro abortion upto the current limits .
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
What the actual fuck has happened here?
No different from companies not wanting to keep employing people who are racist or homophobic.
I don't think that I've ever disagreed with that
Well fair enough. But a lot of “right wingers” did complain when people got sacked for bleating on social media. For what it’s worth I don’t blame companies for sacking employees for celebrating Charlie Kirk’s death. Stupid thing to do.
How many of those sacked before were cheering murder?
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
What the actual fuck has happened here?
No different from companies not wanting to keep employing people who are racist or homophobic.
I don't think that I've ever disagreed with that
Well fair enough. But a lot of “right wingers” did complain when people got sacked for bleating on social media. For what it’s worth I don’t blame companies for sacking employees for celebrating Charlie Kirk’s death. Stupid thing to do.
How many of those sacked before were cheering murder?
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .
Indeed. And remember. He isn't talking about a woman here. He's discussing his 10 year old daughter. Our vileometers are obviously differently calibrated.
I cannot accept there is any humanity in someone who will force a woman who suffered the trauma of rape to then be forced to carry that child against their will .
I'm in favour of abortion on demand, but "you can't have abortion except in cases of rape" makes no sense to me. How is it the child's fault? Just be against it or for it.
I think you’re misunderstanding my post. I’m pro abortion upto the current limits .
Me too. But if someone is against abortion, I don't see why they should make an exception for rape.
Or, more accurately, if they're for it in cases of rape, they're not really against it, and they should capitulate.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
What the actual fuck has happened here?
No different from companies not wanting to keep employing people who are racist or homophobic.
I don't think that I've ever disagreed with that
Well fair enough. But a lot of “right wingers” did complain when people got sacked for bleating on social media. For what it’s worth I don’t blame companies for sacking employees for celebrating Charlie Kirk’s death. Stupid thing to do.
How many of those sacked before were cheering murder?
I don’t know. What relevance does that have?
I was criticising people for cheering murder. You compared them to people sacked for bigotry
Is bigotry worse than cheering murder?
I don't think it is. But I don't want you arrested for disagreeing
X loons now claiming 3 million marched in London yesterday.
That’s as mad as the Met saying “110,000”
What did they hope to gain with this ludicrously precise answer? An air of authority?
Tho I note they’ve recently changed this to “110,000-150,000, probably”
They probably either use video analytics at the choke points, or estimate the crowd from mobile phone carrier data. Both of which should give a better estimate than any person guessing which is what 99% of people are doing.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
What the actual fuck has happened here?
No different from companies not wanting to keep employing people who are racist or homophobic.
I don't think that I've ever disagreed with that
Well fair enough. But a lot of “right wingers” did complain when people got sacked for bleating on social media. For what it’s worth I don’t blame companies for sacking employees for celebrating Charlie Kirk’s death. Stupid thing to do.
How many of those sacked before were cheering murder?
I don’t know. What relevance does that have?
I was criticising people for cheering murder. You compared them to people sacked for bigotry
Is bigotry worse cheering murder?
I don't think it is. But I don't want you arrested for disagreeing
No, I said they were both examples of corporate cancel culture, which they are. Celebrating someone’s death on social media and being racist on social media are both examples of stupidity.
To be fair, they haven't collapsed like Liverpool.
Even at our worst in my lifetime we never finished a season at 16th and just above the relegation zone.
Even at our worst in that period we were never eclipsed by Everton, nor became our cities second club.
They've collapsed far harder and faster than Liverpool.
Were you alive 85-87? Admittedly falling from the best team in the country to second wasn't too precipitous.
I was alive in the eighties (albeit 2-4 at end of season in those years) and I would say that Everton were the second-best club in the country then. Sure you won it sometimes, but even in years when you won it, we were still the better club overall. Indeed we won the title and FA Cup even in that window in 86. Of course, growing up in Merseyside in the 80s the only question was whether you were red or blue and whether red or blue would win it this year.
EG after Man City's first title in nearly half a century in 2012 I wouldn't have said City had eclipsed United overall. After more than a decade of sustained superiority, by now I would.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Would this count?
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
From the above link:
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape. After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel
Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?
Have you never seen a mirror?
I asked my question first
There are two kinds
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
So you’re ok with corporate cancel culture. That’s fine just something for us to all note for the future.
Companies not wanting to keep employing people who have celebrated unjustified assassinations (aka murders) is now known as "corporate cancel culture"?!?!?
What the actual fuck has happened here?
Remember for left wingers words are violence so me or you saying that men in dresses aren't women is the same level as actually killing someone and deserving of the same punishment. They've literally accused JK Rowling of committing a transgender genocide, it's truly laughable.
Exactly three months ago today, a right-winger assassinated Melissa Hortman and her husband.
Really? I definitely read on here that it was a Dem that murdered them and the Democrats were turning on each other.
I cannot accept there is any humanity in someone who will force a woman who suffered the trauma of rape to then be forced to carry that child against their will .
I'm in favour of abortion on demand, but "you can't have abortion except in cases of rape" makes no sense to me. How is it the child's fault? Just be against it or for it.
I think you’re misunderstanding my post. I’m pro abortion upto the current limits .
Me too. But if someone is against abortion, I don't see why they should make an exception for rape.
Or, more accurately, if they're for it in cases of rape, they're not really against it, and they should capitulate.
I get your point . But some people who are anti abortion in general still believe in certain exceptions.
I cannot accept there is any humanity in someone who will force a woman who suffered the trauma of rape to then be forced to carry that child against their will .
What a ridiculous statement. It shouldn’t be hard to understand that there’s a horrible and complex dilemma between balancing the rights of a mother against those of the unborn child. Different people come to a different conclusion on how to weigh those scales. There is the full range of views on display on this forum.
Your implication is that Kirk’s position, because it was different to yours, somehow made him sub human. Why not just call him an untermensch and be done with it.
I cannot accept there is any humanity in someone who will force a woman who suffered the trauma of rape to then be forced to carry that child against their will .
What a ridiculous statement. It shouldn’t be hard to understand that there’s a horrible and complex dilemma between balancing the rights of a mother against those of the unborn child. Different people come to a different conclusion on how to weigh those scales. There is the full range of views on display on this forum.
Your implication is that Kirk’s position, because it was different to yours, somehow made him sub human. Why not just call him an untermensch and be done with it.
Well my viewpoint is that Kirk's position would have been different if what he described actually happened to his daughter.
And remember that MAGA seem very much into do as I say and please ignore the things we actually do.
I note that no one on PB has ever used any word like "vile" about the relatively mainstream policies of Jeremy Corbyn which won 40% of the electorate.
Otoh, the words "moronic", "disastrous", "self-destructive", "ruinous" and "suicidal" often described Labour's plans between about 2015 and 2020 on this site and more generally ...
I really want a Charlie Kirk hater to post a video clip of Charlie being vile or hateful
I wasn't a big fan, but I'd seen a few clips of his videos. He seemed intelligent and friendly, but rather self assured and too Christian for my liking
Since his death I've seen more videos than I could ever watch. But where I have watched he was never hateful, or in any other way vile
He has a self or Jesus assured arrogance that he's right, but he's also kind and friendly to everyone he debates
I struggle to understand how he could have possibly inspired such deadly hatred
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/charlie-kirk-quotes-beliefs
"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexalisitza/viral-charlie-kirk-quotes
https://x.com/RasmusJarlov/status/1966823259728736516
Denmark will bypass more than 20 laws and regulations to allow 🇺🇦Ukrainian company Fire Point to build a solid rocket fuel plant near Skridstrup air base, — DR.
The government will use a special law that allows it to ignore environmental and building codes for defense needs. Fire Point will also be temporarily exempted from rules on controlling the risks of major accidents. The authorities promise constant supervision and a gradual bringing of the plant to standard requirements.
https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967222535830815159
I mean even the Telegraph is reporting the Discord group chat and his joking posts in there after he'd done the assassination, give the media another couple of days and they'll catch up. Though I suspect the leftist media will attempt to muddy the water or just stop reporting it entirely.
Slot succeeding Klopp as a league title winner follows a good history throughout Liverpool's history of having successive Managers bringing success.
Slot followed Klopp.
Dalglish followed Fagan who followed Paisley who followed Shankly. The famous Boot Room.
In the interwar period, McQueen followed Ashworth.
In contrast, Man Utd have never had a successful transition. Ever.
Mangnall pre WWI.
Busby postwar.
Ferguson.
Those are the only ever first division title winners, with a long period in the wilderness between. Indeed after Mangnall and Busby they were eventually relegated before seeing success again, so getting into a relegation scrap now is par for the course.
And what of it is "vile"?
I don't agree with it all. But I know that he just wanted to talk about it
"We record all of it so that we put [it] on the internet so people can see these ideas collide. When people stop talking, that’s when you get violence. That’s when civil war happens, because you start to think the other side is so evil, and they lose their humanity."
The dirty adulterer has been caught out, his missus has had a worse honeymoon that Sir Keir.
https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/08/14/could-one-man-win-both-strictly-come-dancing-and-the-next-london-mayoral-election/
Strictly star Thomas Skinner admits to cheating on wife weeks after their wedding
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/thomas-skinner-strictly-cheating-wife-wedding-b2826134.html
Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.
Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.
I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?
Any thought he might turn his popular social media to politics is definitely ki-boshed now.
"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape.
After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""
Ed still has plenty to play for, and he still seems to be enjoying the job. Obviously the health of his son and wife comes first, but he seems still up for the fight to me.
Greens being whackos is totally on brand.
But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it
It's not vile
I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.
It is a repugnant scenario, but his response is his view, not vile.
I have at no time condoned the assassination of Mr Kirk, but should he be a martyr? No.
I am of the opposite extreme, I believe life begins at birth, so I think abortion should be legal and available until that point. While I vehemently disagree with Kirk’s views, I don't consider them vile, they are the principled consequences of his views.
You should be capable of disagreeing with people without calling those you disagree with vile.
But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him
I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free
What did they hope to gain with this ludicrously precise answer? An air of authority?
Tho I note they’ve recently changed this to “110,000-150,000, probably”
Those who don't agree with you and me, are entitled to disagree us though.
Many people here want a messy compromise whereby abortion is legal until a set number of weeks, then a woman past that point is forced to continue to carry the baby, even if she didn't know she was pregnant until the point had been passed.
I don't see why forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy at 25 weeks is any more humane that forcing her to carry it at week 5.
I don't think those who disagree with me are vile though, they just have different principles. In a free society, people are entitled to have different principles.
I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..
And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.
Condoning this kind of violence just seems to be opening such an awful door and where does the line get drawn, who draws that line? I'm at a loss to understand why people would cheer this on, because they disagreed with him. Will these same people cheer when some random right winger targets Owen Jones?! I doubt it, yet that's what the door is being opened for and it's such a dangerous one to open up. Their attitude is completely self defeating too because in the US, at least, it's the right wingers that have all the guns and it's the right wingers that hold control over the military. I don't know what the thought process is, maybe they're just so stupid they can't see what it is they're encouraging.
@bphillipsonMP
This is why I’m running to be Deputy Leader of the Labour Party.
https://x.com/bphillipsonMP/status/1967178136518566377
Not bad, but can no one get her to speak a tad slower?
It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up
What's actually happened is that people who were on the fence about the subject have shifted in favour of biological reality so the discussion about transgender stuff has just become less prominent and less common.
If anything you'll find the last few threads on this subject will have few to no posts from me because I've just opted out now that the argument has been won in the courts and among the wider public. I consider the subject closed until such time as the existing protections granted to biological women by the courts come under threat.
Many of the things Kirk said were, written down in isolation, debatable. A lot of the repulsiveness of his stated views comes from them all coming out of one mouth.
His death diminishes is all. But I can't say that his views, or his pro-am debate style were an adornment to society.
24 weeks is based on the in independent viability of the foetus.
The Minnesota assassination were used by Republican law makers as an attempt to undermine Tim Walz.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/06/17/mike-lees-posts-minnesota-shooting-backlash/84241124007/
Trump's contrasting views of both events are interesting.
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-response-charlie-kirk-melissa-hortman-shootings-rcna230825
Ban that view bring expressed!
or
Spread that view being stupidly expressed so that everyone knows that it's stupid
There are risks in both, but I prefer the latter
Lucy Connolly was the first, assassination fans are the second
I want you to know how stupid they are, and if you hire them fire them
But I don't want them imprisoned
I don’t have children but I have nephews and nieces, I saw them just after birth and they were little human beings. Up to birth is accepting, frankly, the murder of a fully functional human being.
For what.
If you have gone that far and still have no desire to keep the child there are thousands of people who want a child and would love it.
I’m really sorry but I can never take anything you say to be cloaked in the slightest level of intelligent thought if you think “abortion up to birth” is in any way civilised or human.
You are a very basic maximalist who has no sense of nuance in any of your arguments on here. I will stop there before I tell you what I really think of you on that view. Look at your own children right now and consider your wife deciding she doesn’t want them a week before they were born.
Can a woman who is 25 weeks pregnant and does not desire to be pregnant seek to have the baby delivered as an alternative to abortion, if it is so-called independently viable? Or will the NHS refuse to deliver at 25 weeks if its not medically necessary as it is unsafe to do so, thus forcing the woman to continue with an unwanted pregnancy?
Its entirely reasonable to cease to offer abortion if delivery is an alternative option, but if its not then abortion should be an option. Either way there should be a way to terminate a pregnancy until birth, with either abortion or delivery as means of terminating it.
No woman should be compelled to be pregnant against her will. That's my view at least.
If the alternative is delivery instead of abortion then I'm OK with that. Saying "we are at the point this baby is viable, we will deliver it today and put it up for adoption" then I'm fine with that.
Saying "we are at the point this baby is viable, so you need to go home and continue to be pregnant for five more months, whether you desire to be pregnant or not" is not OK in my eyes.
What the actual fuck has happened here?
Couple that with the Top Professional Services skill of 'providing a fat analysis of why your terrible idea is brilliant, especially if you tweak it like this', and she'll go all the way.
(If I were one of Lam's enemies, I'd be looking for pairs of photos where Lam looks like Thatcher and Thatcher looks like Truss, and leave out the middle person.)
At the risk of upsetting @Mexicanpete latest from the Telegraph on Burnham
Benefits rebels back Andy Burnham
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/14/starmer-allies-attempt-to-fight-off-burnham-threat-labour/
Admittedly falling from the best team in the country to second wasn't too precipitous.
And remember. He isn't talking about a woman here. He's discussing his 10 year old daughter.
Our vileometers are obviously differently calibrated.
Or, more accurately, if they're for it in cases of rape, they're not really against it, and they should capitulate.
Is bigotry worse than cheering murder?
I don't think it is. But I don't want you arrested for disagreeing
EG after Man City's first title in nearly half a century in 2012 I wouldn't have said City had eclipsed United overall. After more than a decade of sustained superiority, by now I would.
Your implication is that Kirk’s position, because it was different to yours, somehow made him sub human. Why not just call him an untermensch and be done with it.
And remember that MAGA seem very much into do as I say and please ignore the things we actually do.
I wasn't a big fan, but I'd seen a few clips of his videos. He seemed intelligent and friendly, but rather self assured and too Christian for my liking
Since his death I've seen more videos than I could ever watch. But where I have watched he was never hateful, or in any other way vile
He has a self or Jesus assured arrogance that he's right, but he's also kind and friendly to everyone he debates
I struggle to understand how he could have possibly inspired such deadly hatred