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The game’s afoot as Burnham wants to be the new Lord Home – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,678
edited 7:26AM in General
The game’s afoot as Burnham wants to be the new Lord Home – politicalbetting.com

EXCL: Secret plot to get Andy Burnham a seat in Parliament so he can challenge Keir Starmer for No10 revealed!Labour rebels dubbed the "Manchester Mafia" want Andrew Gwynne to give up his seat for the King of the North.One insider says: "They are calling it the Etihad coup"

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Comments

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,130
    Burnham looks like the PM from a future Season of The Crown. Starmer looks like one from The Thick Of It.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,148
    Phillipson is 38 and Powell 75 as next PM on Betfair. Both good value, particularly Phillipson.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,235
    edited 7:34AM
    When one sees the state of the NHS fifteen years after Burnham's incompetence was booted from office, imagine what the nation will be like fifteen years after he is kicked out of No 10 by the RefConners.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,734
    Foxy said:

    Phillipson is 38 and Powell 75 as next PM on Betfair. Both good value, particularly Phillipson.

    I know, I tipped it in a header.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/09/11/i-am-prolier-than-thou-2/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,185
    @aric.bsky.social‬

    The Utah shooter joked on Discord with his friends that his doppelganger killed Charlie Kirk when they asked him about it

    https://bsky.app/profile/aric.bsky.social/post/3lyr3kglii22h
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,130
    Scott_xP said:

    @aric.bsky.social‬

    The Utah shooter joked on Discord with his friends that his doppelganger killed Charlie Kirk when they asked him about it

    https://bsky.app/profile/aric.bsky.social/post/3lyr3kglii22h

    There’s some excitable stories going around of other posters linked to the shooter making ominous posts before and celebratory posts after the event, that might imply foreknowledge. Will be interesting to see if further arrests are made.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,142
    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,035
    What state is the Labour Party in when Burnham is seen as its saviour. Do the people supporting him not remember his pitiful run at the leadership previously. A campaign which made Kamala Harris’s for the Democratic nomination seem inspired.

    I think Labour should persist with Starmer, get through the next locals, and Starmer needs to start grooming the next generation and promoting them.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,451
    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,734

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    It is amusing bit of irony the first scandal that brought down Peter Mandelson was not being entirely honest in a mortgage application.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,344

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Kilroy was here.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,152
    I'm wondering whether the new metro mayors are going to move us towards a US style situation where people prefer Governors to Senators for the top job. You can say what you want about Burnham's legislative and cabinet record but he arguably has more experience of actually governing somewhere than almost any other politician apart from the PM. I also think that if he stands for a Manchester seat he's bound to win off the back of his mayoral popularity. The biggest obstacle is getting the nomination in the first place of the party leader is hostile.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,235
    edited 7:39AM

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    He could embrace it and after the Civil War and ride General Franco-like into decades of inertia.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,734
    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,257
    FPT, but relevant here:

    It's very hard indeed to see Burnham as a threat. He's outside Parliament and the barriers to his return are actually pretty formidable. He would have to find a seat Labour could win, and then win it, and resign as Mayor to take it up which would neutralise his power base.

    I suspect name recognition, a lack of association with the Cabinet and wishful thinking are driving talk about his return, rather than a realistic assessment of the possibility.

    Which is why I say again the one we should be watching is David Lammy. He's consistently underestimated by everyone but he's quietly manoeuvred himself into an extremely powerful position.

    (And as you say, he's also a pretty poor politician. Who could forget the infamous time he stood in front of a banner saying 'Defend our NHS' and accidentally blocked out the first three letters - if only because Paul Staines keeps reminding us?)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,273

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    They really are unhinged . The King isn’t going to give a tribute to someone who had called the civil rights act a mistake .
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,775
    Apart from being a faster talker than Starmer (which is pretty much everyone) and not having been in government recently (gives you clean hands, sure, but is otherwise a downside), what exactly is Burnham's appeal?

    How would his government be better?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,734
    ydoethur said:

    FPT, but relevant here:

    It's very hard indeed to see Burnham as a threat. He's outside Parliament and the barriers to his return are actually pretty formidable. He would have to find a seat Labour could win, and then win it, and resign as Mayor to take it up which would neutralise his power base.

    I suspect name recognition, a lack of association with the Cabinet and wishful thinking are driving talk about his return, rather than a realistic assessment of the possibility.

    Which is why I say again the one we should be watching is David Lammy. He's consistently underestimated by everyone but he's quietly manoeuvred himself into an extremely powerful position.

    (And as you say, he's also a pretty poor politician. Who could forget the infamous time he stood in front of a banner saying 'Defend our NHS' and accidentally blocked out the first three letters - if only because Paul Staines keeps reminding us?)

    Lammy's a lawyer too which should make him even more nailed on.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,451

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    Just off to choral mattins followed by a drunken fight. Tweed jacket, brown brogues, college tie, knuckleduster. Cry God for England.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,235

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    The leftie trans guy (as confirmed on here by Leon last evening) couldn't have imagined the level of martyrdom he would inadvertently bestow on Kirk once the trigger was pulled.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,074

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    That would have been insincere, since the King was likely unaware, before the event, of his existence ?
    Still, as he's shortly to host Trump, briefings would be in order.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,235

    Apart from being a faster talker than Starmer (which is pretty much everyone) and not having been in government recently (gives you clean hands, sure, but is otherwise a downside), what exactly is Burnham's appeal?

    How would his government be better?

    Comms would be a million times better, and er...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,884
    Burnham and Starmer have one thing in common: when they were on the ballot for Labour leader I didn't vote for either of them.
    I hope @TimS made it back from cenral London without running into any of Tommeh's mouth breathers. We didn't see any on our excursion into Fitzrovia, thankfully.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,775
    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    Is there a link between this and the way that some fash-fluffers are trying to push the story of Christian Revival amongst young men? Though not all of Leviticus, obviously;

    ...the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,142

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    The leftie trans guy (as confirmed on here by Leon last evening) couldn't have imagined the level of martyrdom he would inadvertently bestow on Kirk once the trigger was pulled.
    Worse than lefty trans, he was a MASK WEARER! Well, he naively let photographs be taken which could have masks badly photoshopped onto them.



    https://x.com/taftermath2020/status/1966642274617479368?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,468
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    Just off to choral mattins followed by a drunken fight. Tweed jacket, brown brogues, college tie, knuckleduster. Cry God for England.
    Razorblades sewn into the lapels, obvs.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138
    Peter Kyle on Trevor Phillips having a nightmare over Mandelson, even turning on Phillips saying the media should have questioned Mandelson's appointment in the first place

    And Keir Starmer has raised standards in public life !!!!!!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,257
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    That would have been insincere, since the King was likely unaware, before the event, of his existence ?
    Still, as he's shortly to host Trump, briefings would be in order.
    The King's probably a much better shot than this Crooks(?) guy was 🤔
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,074
    French aerospace manufacturing is on a roll.

    Portugal picks French Rafale over America’s F-35 for NATO fleet modernization.
    https://x.com/AlexandruC4/status/1966933040934121841

    India considering a huge Rafale purchase. ‘The defence ministry has begun examining a proposal from the Indian Air Force to procure 114 "Made in India" Rafale fighter jets
    https://x.com/shashj/status/1966953610111021100

    The reasons are likely part political (no one trusts Trump) and partly practical - see our dismal experience with getting any F35 upgrades.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,142
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    That would have been insincere, since the King was likely unaware, before the event, of his existence ?
    Still, as he's shortly to host Trump, briefings would be in order.
    Particularly since Trump is very likely to bring it up in any public utterances while he’s in the UK.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,451

    Apart from being a faster talker than Starmer (which is pretty much everyone) and not having been in government recently (gives you clean hands, sure, but is otherwise a downside), what exactly is Burnham's appeal?

    How would his government be better?

    Assuming what we need as PM is someone who is competent, inspirational, leads from the front, commands the narrative, is in charge of the backbenchers can change the political weather, see off Reform and comprehends the problems of debt, deficit, spending, welfare, housing, migration and tax I think we should look elsewhere. I doubt if Burnham is close to being that person.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,185
    @gabyhinsliff.bsky.social‬

    Everyone saying PM shd condemn far right violence in London yday (Shabana Mahmood already has)/ leave X is right. But same for Kemi Badenoch. No Conservative Party can condone thugs attacking police horses & calls for violent uprising. Even Farage has gone up against Yaxley-Lennon ffs.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gabyhinsliff.bsky.social/post/3lyrs7ox2rs2j
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138
    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    The leftie trans guy (as confirmed on here by Leon last evening) couldn't have imagined the level of martyrdom he would inadvertently bestow on Kirk once the trigger was pulled.
    @molly.wiki‬

    > the shooter is trans
    > ok the bullets were trans
    > ok the roommate is trans



    It is increasingly clear that the guy was a terminally online gamer and shooting Kirk was basically the ultimate shitpost
    This is interesting but a good way away from my knowledge of the subject

    https://news.sky.com/story/bella-ciao-to-owo-what-do-the-engravings-on-the-bullets-in-the-charlie-kirk-shooting-mean-13430554
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,468
    edited 7:54AM

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    fitalass said:

    Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'

    "According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.

    'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.

    'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.

    The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.

    No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.

    But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.

    Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.

    Supporters hope Mr Burnham will return to the Commons in a by-election, making him eligible for a leadership bid."
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15095781/Starmer-cried-showdown-PM-key-aide-Westminster.html

    Backing Powell is starting to look like easy money?
    I don't think so.

    I think Phillipson will win comfortably and have bet accordingly.

    Politically these is little between her and Powell, both being soft left. Phillipson is the better speaker. Here she is at the #TUC last week:

    https://www.youtube.com/live/8GRutRRkLc4?si=dygUjELbDJtY65Tc

    I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!



    Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.

    Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
    The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.

    You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
    Frankly, who wants to do this boring governing thing when you can emote about things you can't actually do anything about? It's deeply unfashionable.
    Over time, I appreciate emperors like Antoninus Pius and Anastasius ever more. No flashy buildings, no military glory, but they governed very competently for decades.
    FPT but, in re Antonini Pii, I must ask: what about this honking great wall on the Forth-Clyde Isthmus, with [edit] forts and (possibly) a monumental temple on the road through?*

    *Arthur's Oon [oven]. Sadly demolished. https://falkirklocalhistory.club/around-the-area/castles/arthurs-oon/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,185
    @KevinASchofield

    Not sure who advised Peter Kyle to go on the TV this morning and repeatedly talk about Peter Mandelson's "singular and outstanding talents".

    Read the room.

    @DPJHodges

    I suspect it was Peter Mandelson.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,273
    Scott_xP said:

    @gabyhinsliff.bsky.social‬

    Everyone saying PM shd condemn far right violence in London yday (Shabana Mahmood already has)/ leave X is right. But same for Kemi Badenoch. No Conservative Party can condone thugs attacking police horses & calls for violent uprising. Even Farage has gone up against Yaxley-Lennon ffs.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gabyhinsliff.bsky.social/post/3lyrs7ox2rs2j

    Starmer is waiting to be advised if he should condemn the violence . He will then be given his feed and burped before being put back in his cot !
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138
    algarkirk said:

    Apart from being a faster talker than Starmer (which is pretty much everyone) and not having been in government recently (gives you clean hands, sure, but is otherwise a downside), what exactly is Burnham's appeal?

    How would his government be better?

    Assuming what we need as PM is someone who is competent, inspirational, leads from the front, commands the narrative, is in charge of the backbenchers can change the political weather, see off Reform and comprehends the problems of debt, deficit, spending, welfare, housing, migration and tax I think we should look elsewhere. I doubt if Burnham is close to being that person.

    I do not see Burnham as PM but I do see him causing considerable problems for Starmer even from outside Parliament
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,235
    Scott_xP said:

    @gabyhinsliff.bsky.social‬

    Everyone saying PM shd condemn far right violence in London yday (Shabana Mahmood already has)/ leave X is right. But same for Kemi Badenoch. No Conservative Party can condone thugs attacking police horses & calls for violent uprising. Even Farage has gone up against Yaxley-Lennon ffs.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gabyhinsliff.bsky.social/post/3lyrs7ox2rs2j

    Oh behave. Give hime time he's not back at his desk until 8.30 Monday.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,035

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    Is he on drugs ?

    That’s just batshit.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,888
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    fitalass said:

    Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'

    "According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.

    'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.

    'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.

    The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.

    No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.

    But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.

    Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.

    Supporters hope Mr Burnham will return to the Commons in a by-election, making him eligible for a leadership bid."
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15095781/Starmer-cried-showdown-PM-key-aide-Westminster.html

    Backing Powell is starting to look like easy money?
    I don't think so.

    I think Phillipson will win comfortably and have bet accordingly.

    Politically these is little between her and Powell, both being soft left. Phillipson is the better speaker. Here she is at the #TUC last week:

    https://www.youtube.com/live/8GRutRRkLc4?si=dygUjELbDJtY65Tc

    I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!



    Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.

    Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
    The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.

    You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
    Frankly, who wants to do this boring governing thing when you can emote about things you can't actually do anything about? It's deeply unfashionable.
    Over time, I appreciate emperors like Antoninus Pius and Anastasius ever more. No flashy buildings, no military glory, but they governed very competently for decades.
    FPT but, in re Antonini Pii, I must ask: what about this honking great wall on the Forth-Clyde Isthmus, with [edit] forts and (possibly) a monumental temple on the road through?*

    *Arthur's Oon [oven]. Sadly demolished. https://falkirklocalhistory.club/around-the-area/castles/arthurs-oon/
    To be fair, the Antonine Wall did serve a practical purpose. It wasn't just Temple #57 or Church LookAtMyMegalomania. But you're right, I did forget about it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,220
    Had Burnham won the Labour leadership in 2015 Labour may well have beaten May and the Tories in 2017. The reason Labour MPs want him back as their leader is he polls better than Starmer and Farage and Badenoch, though whether Starmer would allow him on the approved list for a by election is another matter
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,035
    Social media is a depressing place. Last week the Far Left Palestine loons attacked the cops. This week it’s so called patriots. The demonisation and deification of online right wing grifter, Charlie Kirk, is tedious. Yet among all this drivel. Including here, there are some truly joyous moments. The Fonz catching fish is one of them.


  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,775
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    Is he on drugs ?

    That’s just batshit.
    Probably.

    Quite a lot of the Musky Right are.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138
    Michael Gove on Lucy Powell on Trevor Phillips programme

    'Andy Burnham's trained killer and will win the deputy leadership'
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,710
    Taz said:

    Social media is a depressing place. Last week the Far Left Palestine loons attacked the cops. This week it’s so called patriots. The demonisation and deification of online right wing grifter, Charlie Kirk, is tedious. Yet among all this drivel. Including here, there are some truly joyous moments. The Fonz catching fish is one of them.


    Will no-one think of the fish?
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,464
    ydoethur said:

    FPT, but relevant here:

    It's very hard indeed to see Burnham as a threat. He's outside Parliament and the barriers to his return are actually pretty formidable. He would have to find a seat Labour could win, and then win it, and resign as Mayor to take it up which would neutralise his power base.

    I suspect name recognition, a lack of association with the Cabinet and wishful thinking are driving talk about his return, rather than a realistic assessment of the possibility.

    Which is why I say again the one we should be watching is David Lammy. He's consistently underestimated by everyone but he's quietly manoeuvred himself into an extremely powerful position.

    (And as you say, he's also a pretty poor politician. Who could forget the infamous time he stood in front of a banner saying 'Defend our NHS' and accidentally blocked out the first three letters - if only because Paul Staines keeps reminding us?)

    That isn't even the most stupid thing he's done on camera - his finest hour was probably the "there's no police round here, we never see no police round here" interview with PC Plod strolling around in the back of the shot.

    Vote Leave (iirc) put out a short video mocking him mainly via clips of him in action which went pretty viral, mostly because it was really funny.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,286
    Morning all :)

    I find it fascinating so many people's views of individual politicians are created/affirmed by trifling and trivial incidents. Somebody once said about all the world being a stage and politics is often described as theatre but there has to be more to our opinion forming than how someone looks, what they wear, what or who they are standing behind.

    A powerful if often incoherent message from "Unite the Kingdom" yesterday - as others have said, what supporters of democracy may need to be concerned about isn't Reform but what might follow them if (or perhaps when) Reform themselves crash and burn. Advance is or seems to be the next stage of that though still struggling to form and develop an identity.

    As has often happened with these large scale political marches (though not with the anti-Iraq War or Countryside Alliance marches which were miuch bigger and if memory serves entirely violence-free), a tiny element came looking for trouble and that has to be condemned unequivocally by all sides (including the march organisers).

    The British system isn't like the house made of straw especially if you have a party with a large majority in office. All the huffing and puffing in the world won't make it fall down from the outside - it might fall from the inside but that's different. Many might want an election but its' far from the first time there have been calls for "an early election" when a Government has disappointed - it didn't happen then and it won't happen now.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,889
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    Is he on drugs ?

    That’s just batshit.
    Please do not insult people on drugs like that.

    Our local Shouting At Pigeons, vagrant type, who is frequently smoking something from a glass pipe, is frankly an adornment to the community, compared to the rum blossom you have linked to.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,035
    From the protest yesterday. A woman with a placard ‘Get them out’ in this case I heartily concur.

    https://x.com/lordashcroft/status/1966946429580329415?s=61
  • AnthonyTAnthonyT Posts: 161
    Taz said:

    What state is the Labour Party in when Burnham is seen as its saviour. Do the people supporting him not remember his pitiful run at the leadership previously. A campaign which made Kamala Harris’s for the Democratic nomination seem inspired.

    I think Labour should persist with Starmer, get through the next locals, and Starmer needs to start grooming the next generation and promoting them.

    Exactly. He was in charge of the NHS when the Staffordshire scandal happened. His record on grooming gangs in Manchester is not good either. He got a pitiful number of votes when he last stood and he simply jumps from bandwagon to bandwagon.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,035

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    Is he on drugs ?

    That’s just batshit.
    Please do not insult people on drugs like that.

    Our local Shouting At Pigeons, vagrant type, who is frequently smoking something from a glass pipe, is frankly an adornment to the community, compared to the rum blossom you have linked to.
    When I worked at the tube depot in Golders Green there were a couple of local addicts. One I remember had a softtoy tiger and used to regularly fall asleep, spooning with it, under the bridge next to the depot.

    He was on drugs. Not sure about the tiger.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,035

    Taz said:

    Social media is a depressing place. Last week the Far Left Palestine loons attacked the cops. This week it’s so called patriots. The demonisation and deification of online right wing grifter, Charlie Kirk, is tedious. Yet among all this drivel. Including here, there are some truly joyous moments. The Fonz catching fish is one of them.


    He’s finally jumped the trout.
    Very good 😂😂😂😂
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,035

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    Is he on drugs ?

    That’s just batshit.
    Probably.

    Quite a lot of the Musky Right are.
    I suspect it’s not just limited to the right, but also the extreme left too.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,953
    Yesterday’s performance is the end of Tesla as an investable business. The share price is as large as it is because of automation and robotics.

    Which government is going to license Optimus robots when the owner calls for the violent overthrow of democratic governments?

    Even the car business will struggle to get FSD past regulators. He needs to work with governments not call for their violent overthrow.

    What a cockwomble.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,148

    Michael Gove on Lucy Powell on Trevor Phillips programme

    'Andy Burnham's trained killer and will win the deputy leadership'

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    Is he on drugs ?

    That’s just batshit.
    The thread answers itself...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,953
    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,593
    Was this protest inspired by the killing of Kirk or scheduled anyway?

    I wish we wouldn't import these things from America, it's deeply depressing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,593

    Yesterday’s performance is the end of Tesla as an investable business. The share price is as large as it is because of automation and robotics.

    Which government is going to license Optimus robots when the owner calls for the violent overthrow of democratic governments?

    Even the car business will struggle to get FSD past regulators. He needs to work with governments not call for their violent overthrow.

    What a cockwomble.

    Licence.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,468

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    fitalass said:

    Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'

    "According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.

    'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.

    'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.

    The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.

    No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.

    But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.

    Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.

    Supporters hope Mr Burnham will return to the Commons in a by-election, making him eligible for a leadership bid."
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15095781/Starmer-cried-showdown-PM-key-aide-Westminster.html

    Backing Powell is starting to look like easy money?
    I don't think so.

    I think Phillipson will win comfortably and have bet accordingly.

    Politically these is little between her and Powell, both being soft left. Phillipson is the better speaker. Here she is at the #TUC last week:

    https://www.youtube.com/live/8GRutRRkLc4?si=dygUjELbDJtY65Tc

    I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!



    Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.

    Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
    The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.

    You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
    Frankly, who wants to do this boring governing thing when you can emote about things you can't actually do anything about? It's deeply unfashionable.
    Over time, I appreciate emperors like Antoninus Pius and Anastasius ever more. No flashy buildings, no military glory, but they governed very competently for decades.
    FPT but, in re Antonini Pii, I must ask: what about this honking great wall on the Forth-Clyde Isthmus, with [edit] forts and (possibly) a monumental temple on the road through?*

    *Arthur's Oon [oven]. Sadly demolished. https://falkirklocalhistory.club/around-the-area/castles/arthurs-oon/
    To be fair, the Antonine Wall did serve a practical purpose. It wasn't just Temple #57 or Church LookAtMyMegalomania. But you're right, I did forget about it.
    I was in two minds myself - but it got shut down within a few years of the Emperor's death. Well worth visiting btw though more for the enthusiast perhaps. The Legionary sector construction memorial slabs, many at the Hunterian Museum in Glasgow Uni, are quite something.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138

    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.

    Though, it does show what a shambles labour are in, and in particular Starmer and Reeves performance over the last 15 months
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,889
    AnthonyT said:

    Taz said:

    What state is the Labour Party in when Burnham is seen as its saviour. Do the people supporting him not remember his pitiful run at the leadership previously. A campaign which made Kamala Harris’s for the Democratic nomination seem inspired.

    I think Labour should persist with Starmer, get through the next locals, and Starmer needs to start grooming the next generation and promoting them.

    Exactly. He was in charge of the NHS when the Staffordshire scandal happened. His record on grooming gangs in Manchester is not good either. He got a pitiful number of votes when he last stood and he simply jumps from bandwagon to bandwagon.
    The Mid-Staffs thing has the potential to become a problem. There was a concerted campaign against the whistleblowers and some politicians actually backed this on a “protect the NHS” basis
  • glwglw Posts: 10,507

    Peter Kyle on Trevor Phillips having a nightmare over Mandelson, even turning on Phillips saying the media should have questioned Mandelson's appointment in the first place

    I can't recall for certain but I suspect that a big chunk of the media did question his appointment, and the wisdom of appointing Mandelson.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,235

    Yesterday’s performance is the end of Tesla as an investable business. The share price is as large as it is because of automation and robotics.

    Which government is going to license Optimus robots when the owner calls for the violent overthrow of democratic governments?

    Even the car business will struggle to get FSD past regulators. He needs to work with governments not call for their violent overthrow.

    What a cockwomble.

    But life would become a great deal easier for Elon if Ten-Names became President of the British Empire.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,593

    Taz said:

    Social media is a depressing place. Last week the Far Left Palestine loons attacked the cops. This week it’s so called patriots. The demonisation and deification of online right wing grifter, Charlie Kirk, is tedious. Yet among all this drivel. Including here, there are some truly joyous moments. The Fonz catching fish is one of them.


    He’s finally jumped the trout.
    Just doing it all for a-tench-ion.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,889
    Foxy said:

    Michael Gove on Lucy Powell on Trevor Phillips programme

    'Andy Burnham's trained killer and will win the deputy leadership'

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    Is he on drugs ?

    That’s just batshit.
    The thread answers itself...
    Incidentally, batshit is an extremely valuable fertiliser that massive improves crop yields (see guano), and restores the soil.

    If you spread MAGA crap on the fields….
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,468

    Taz said:

    Social media is a depressing place. Last week the Far Left Palestine loons attacked the cops. This week it’s so called patriots. The demonisation and deification of online right wing grifter, Charlie Kirk, is tedious. Yet among all this drivel. Including here, there are some truly joyous moments. The Fonz catching fish is one of them.


    He’s finally jumped the trout.
    Just doing it all for a-tench-ion.
    Nobody's being char-itable this morning, apart from LG. Vicious.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,035

    AnthonyT said:

    Taz said:

    What state is the Labour Party in when Burnham is seen as its saviour. Do the people supporting him not remember his pitiful run at the leadership previously. A campaign which made Kamala Harris’s for the Democratic nomination seem inspired.

    I think Labour should persist with Starmer, get through the next locals, and Starmer needs to start grooming the next generation and promoting them.

    Exactly. He was in charge of the NHS when the Staffordshire scandal happened. His record on grooming gangs in Manchester is not good either. He got a pitiful number of votes when he last stood and he simply jumps from bandwagon to bandwagon.
    The Mid-Staffs thing has the potential to become a problem. There was a concerted campaign against the whistleblowers and some politicians actually backed this on a “protect the NHS” basis
    He also privatised an NHS hospital, Hitchinbrooke.

    Oops
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,468
    edited 8:29AM
    glw said:

    Peter Kyle on Trevor Phillips having a nightmare over Mandelson, even turning on Phillips saying the media should have questioned Mandelson's appointment in the first place

    I can't recall for certain but I suspect that a big chunk of the media did question his appointment, and the wisdom of appointing Mandelson.
    They did, but on old stuff? Edit: and as much for within-party issues as anything else?

    https://news.sky.com/story/peter-mandelson-returns-as-starmers-new-us-ambassador-13276728
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,889

    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.

    Though, it does show what a shambles labour are in, and in particular Starmer and Reeves performance over the last 15 months
    It speaks to the paucity of talent in British politics. Every party is led by the second rate. Backed by the fifth rate.

    You look at Thatcher’s cabinets - sure, there were one or two clowns. But a good half of them could have been PM.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,507
    Scott_xP said:

    @molly.wiki‬

    > the shooter is trans
    > ok the bullets were trans
    > ok the roommate is trans



    It is increasingly clear that the guy was a terminally online gamer and shooting Kirk was basically the ultimate shitpost

    That is exactly what it seems to be. There's no apparent manifesto or video giving a reason. If he was far-left there appears to be little evidence of it. It fits much more in line with a string of other recent shootings, and attemps/plots, driven by a sub-culture that is basically invisibile to most of the media, and doesnt' really fit anyone's agenda.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,035
    Sound out of sync on Kuensberg this morning. Unwatchable.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246

    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.

    Though, it does show what a shambles labour are in, and in particular Starmer and Reeves performance over the last 15 months
    It speaks to the paucity of talent in British politics. Every party is led by the second rate. Backed by the fifth rate.

    You look at Thatcher’s cabinets - sure, there were one or two clowns. But a good half of them could have been PM.
    Again who would want to be a politician. If we look at the people on here - the only one who does runs a youtube channel and has little chance of actually being elected...
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,029
    edited 8:37AM
    Re the next Labour leader, is there not also a rather unsaid element that doesn’t help Burnham - i.e he’s a straight white man?

    I don’t endorse this obsession with identity above all, but there’s plenty in the Labour Party who will see the optics of never having had a woman leader, or a leader from an ethnic minority as being very bad. Look at the stuff recently about the deputy vote - it had to be a northern woman for a number of figures.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246

    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.

    Look at the people in Parliament though - the problem we have is Burnham (and Kahn) look like giants against them.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,888
    F1: too late but Sainz's incident with Lawson at Zandvoort has been now deemed a racing incident and the penalty points removed from Sainz's record.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,933

    Re the next Labour leader, is there not also a rather unsaid element that doesn’t help Burnham - i.e he’s a straight white man?

    I don’t endorse this obsession with identity above all, but there’s plenty in the Labour Party who will see the optics of never having had a woman leader, or a leader from an ethnic minority as being very bad. Look at the stuff recently about the deputy vote - it had to be a northern woman for a number of figures.

    You have a short memory! They had that old Neanderthal washerwoman Brown.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,235
    Taz said:

    Sound out of sync on Kuensberg this morning. Unwatchable.

    Out of sync? Not as pro-Tory/ Reform as we were expecting/hoping?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,849
    nico67 said:

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    They really are unhinged . The King isn’t going to give a tribute to someone who had called the civil rights act a mistake .
    He ain’t going to give a tribute to any US political figure not in a senior position (I’d assume only the President and may be the VP and US Ambassador to the Court of St James).
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,849
    Nigelb said:

    French aerospace manufacturing is on a roll.

    Portugal picks French Rafale over America’s F-35 for NATO fleet modernization.
    https://x.com/AlexandruC4/status/1966933040934121841

    India considering a huge Rafale purchase. ‘The defence ministry has begun examining a proposal from the Indian Air Force to procure 114 "Made in India" Rafale fighter jets
    https://x.com/shashj/status/1966953610111021100

    The reasons are likely part political (no one trusts Trump) and partly practical - see our dismal experience with getting any F35 upgrades.

    Ben Wallace’s comments yesterday were interesting
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,286

    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.

    Though, it does show what a shambles labour are in, and in particular Starmer and Reeves performance over the last 15 months
    It wasn't so long ago the Conservatives decided Boris Johnson was "the answer" and about the same time, the Liberal Democrats thought Jo Swinson was "the answer".

    Not knowing or understanding the question is hardly the monopoly of the Labour Party.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,775

    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.

    Though, it does show what a shambles labour are in, and in particular Starmer and Reeves performance over the last 15 months
    It speaks to the paucity of talent in British politics. Every party is led by the second rate. Backed by the fifth rate.

    You look at Thatcher’s cabinets - sure, there were one or two clowns. But a good half of them could have been PM.
    And the same was true of those on the Opposition benches. Even when they were wrong (Foot, say) or a bit mad (Benn), they were people of substance.

    I think you've pointed out before that people of substance mostly don't want to touch public service through government with a bargepole. Partly because there are easier ways of making a better living, but also... why would you? Why go on the stage when a million Waldorfs and Statlers are going to heckle your every action.

    And on top of that, the 'sack the manager' syndrome means that what little talent there is get pushed to the top jobs before they are ready and are quickly binned when they inevitably fail. Since World War 2, the supply of people capable of being an effective PM has been... 1 or 2 a decade? In recent years, demand has exceeded supply.

    I know it triggers some when I say it, but Starmer and Badenoch are the least rancid options on the shelf. Changing either of them would be another change for the worse. And the idea that 'the public deserves better' is largely tosh as well. We may not have done it deliberately, but the society around us is the consequence of the totality of the choices we have collectively made over decades. We have almost exactly the quality of politicians we deserve.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246

    Nigelb said:

    French aerospace manufacturing is on a roll.

    Portugal picks French Rafale over America’s F-35 for NATO fleet modernization.
    https://x.com/AlexandruC4/status/1966933040934121841

    India considering a huge Rafale purchase. ‘The defence ministry has begun examining a proposal from the Indian Air Force to procure 114 "Made in India" Rafale fighter jets
    https://x.com/shashj/status/1966953610111021100

    The reasons are likely part political (no one trusts Trump) and partly practical - see our dismal experience with getting any F35 upgrades.

    Ben Wallace’s comments yesterday were interesting
    Ben Wallace is merely explaining why everyone else is looking at the Rafale - the US are no longer trustworthy...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,148

    AnthonyT said:

    Taz said:

    What state is the Labour Party in when Burnham is seen as its saviour. Do the people supporting him not remember his pitiful run at the leadership previously. A campaign which made Kamala Harris’s for the Democratic nomination seem inspired.

    I think Labour should persist with Starmer, get through the next locals, and Starmer needs to start grooming the next generation and promoting them.

    Exactly. He was in charge of the NHS when the Staffordshire scandal happened. His record on grooming gangs in Manchester is not good either. He got a pitiful number of votes when he last stood and he simply jumps from bandwagon to bandwagon.
    The Mid-Staffs thing has the potential to become a problem. There was a concerted campaign against the whistleblowers and some politicians actually backed this on a “protect the NHS” basis
    I dont think the next Labour leader will be one who served in the Blair and Brown governments. Indeed that is one reason that Corbyn got the gig.

    Burnham can have influence, and has reinvented himself as King of the North, but Labour need and want a fresher face.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,981
    On Topic.

    The Centrists like Burnham need to let SKS and his Red Tories crash and burn electorally before mounting a challenge. After GE 2029 only gonna need about 10 MP nominations to stand and people like Akehurst,Streeting,Reeves,Cooper will be retired to the Lkrds
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246
    Foxy said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Taz said:

    What state is the Labour Party in when Burnham is seen as its saviour. Do the people supporting him not remember his pitiful run at the leadership previously. A campaign which made Kamala Harris’s for the Democratic nomination seem inspired.

    I think Labour should persist with Starmer, get through the next locals, and Starmer needs to start grooming the next generation and promoting them.

    Exactly. He was in charge of the NHS when the Staffordshire scandal happened. His record on grooming gangs in Manchester is not good either. He got a pitiful number of votes when he last stood and he simply jumps from bandwagon to bandwagon.
    The Mid-Staffs thing has the potential to become a problem. There was a concerted campaign against the whistleblowers and some politicians actually backed this on a “protect the NHS” basis
    I dont think the next Labour leader will be one who served in the Blair and Brown governments. Indeed that is one reason that Corbyn got the gig.

    Burnham can have influence, and has reinvented himself as King of the North, but Labour need and want a fresher face.
    I can't see past Shabana Mahmood as leader if she manages to do anything at all about the boats (which granted is an awkward bar to resolve).
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,775
    eek said:

    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.

    Look at the people in Parliament though - the problem we have is Burnham (and Kahn) look like giants against them.
    How much of that is because Metro Mayor is an easier job, so it's easier to look good doing it?

    (It's why stealthily not-quite forcing Mayors on everywhere, and giving them a decent wodge of responsibilities, is probably a good thing.

    "More politicians" is a hard sell. But if it means that each of those politicians has a small enough role that they can actually do it... That will help a lot.)
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,029
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Taz said:

    What state is the Labour Party in when Burnham is seen as its saviour. Do the people supporting him not remember his pitiful run at the leadership previously. A campaign which made Kamala Harris’s for the Democratic nomination seem inspired.

    I think Labour should persist with Starmer, get through the next locals, and Starmer needs to start grooming the next generation and promoting them.

    Exactly. He was in charge of the NHS when the Staffordshire scandal happened. His record on grooming gangs in Manchester is not good either. He got a pitiful number of votes when he last stood and he simply jumps from bandwagon to bandwagon.
    The Mid-Staffs thing has the potential to become a problem. There was a concerted campaign against the whistleblowers and some politicians actually backed this on a “protect the NHS” basis
    I dont think the next Labour leader will be one who served in the Blair and Brown governments. Indeed that is one reason that Corbyn got the gig.

    Burnham can have influence, and has reinvented himself as King of the North, but Labour need and want a fresher face.
    I can't see past Shabana Mahmood as leader if she manages to do anything at all about the boats (which granted is an awkward bar to resolve).
    Possibly. Though she also has to do it in a way that doesn’t upset the selectorate. If, as seems to be the messaging, she is going for the right wing authoritarian firebrand position, in the style of say Blunkett, she might get some results but it won’t endear her to a lot of the people who decide who the next leader is.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246

    eek said:

    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.

    Look at the people in Parliament though - the problem we have is Burnham (and Kahn) look like giants against them.
    How much of that is because Metro Mayor is an easier job, so it's easier to look good doing it?

    (It's why stealthily not-quite forcing Mayors on everywhere, and giving them a decent wodge of responsibilities, is probably a good thing.

    "More politicians" is a hard sell. But if it means that each of those politicians has a small enough role that they can actually do it... That will help a lot.)
    Why do you think I said look like giants - it's a far easier job - because if things go wrong you can blame someone else.

    Which is why leaving the EU was such a problem for Westminister - the buck now stops at No 10 and you can't put the blame on the awkward part from a set of no win options on someone else.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246
    edited 8:59AM
    @RochdalePioneers - you may like this one Ben Houchen has been caught lying yet again https://teesside.thelead.uk/p/ben-houchen-lied-about-contact-with
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,035

    Taz said:

    Sound out of sync on Kuensberg this morning. Unwatchable.

    Out of sync? Not as pro-Tory/ Reform as we were expecting/hoping?
    WTF are you going on about, you idiot.

    The sound is not in sync with the speakers mouth movement.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,057
    edited 9:05AM

    On Topic.

    The Centrists like Burnham need to let SKS and his Red Tories crash and burn electorally before mounting a challenge. After GE 2029 only gonna need about 10 MP nominations to stand and people like Akehurst,Streeting,Reeves,Cooper will be retired to the Lkrds

    I agree and congratulations on being the most prescient commentator on here particularly on Gaza. I thought you might find this interesting. Nothing most of us didn't know but something very few were prepared to accept as they followed the Telegraph agenda and the herd.

    https://www.youtube.com/live/IETxE7VErPA?t=2s
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,431
    Just about the only seat Labour might hold in a by-election in Manchester is probably Manchester Central and I can't see Lucy Powell going anywhere.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,953
    eek said:

    @RochdalePioneers - you may like this one Ben Houchen has been caught lying yet again https://teesside.thelead.uk/p/ben-houchen-lied-about-contact-with

    Mrs P: You can tell when Houchen is lying, its when his lips are moving"
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    Andy_JS said:

    Just about the only seat Labour might hold in a by-election in Manchester is probably Manchester Central and I can't see Lucy Powell going anywhere.

    Surely he'd win one of the Liverpool seats?
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