I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Amorim will be replaced by the Crystal Palace manager this week. You heard it here first.
More likely Nuno, I think Glasner will be looking at German clubs and Man Utd are a clown show so he won’t want to tarnish his career.
He does actually make 3 at the back work though.
Playing on the break. Not sure that's what Man Utd aspire to.
All these hundreds of millions wasted on ordinary players getting extraordinary wages. Its bordering on pitiful.
I don't get why midfield wasn't the front and centre of their recruitment this summer. They're unlucky to lose Mason Mount to injury again, but the midfield is poor.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
Andy Burnham's an interesting one. Quite the ideological chameleon imo. Clearly ambitious. He'd sound like a Northerner which might be helpful against Farage. But not seen much of a program for what he'd do differently.
I thought he was weak during the Brown Government but he has reinvented himself in Manchester. He says the right things at the right time. He leads in the event of catastrophe and his comms are very good. I still don't like him but he is far less wooden than Starmer and would be quite content to call Farage to account.
"less wooden than Starmer". I mean, talk about low bars. We are in limbo territory here.
The bar is getting so low, even Warwick Davis is thinking he might struggle to limbo it.
I remember when the bar was lowered to he might have had a personality bypass, but he is honest and at least he appears to be vaguely competent.
In fact he is just a more boring form of liar without many signs of knowing what he is doing. He does always have a tidy desk though, as nothing ever f##king crosses it.
I've mentioned the two theories that have are plausible.
1) He never wanted to be an MP, the window for him becoming an MP was quite narrow so he didn't have much time to fully think it through, from retiring as DPP to deciding to stand.
and
2) Once he decided to become an MP his ambition was to be Attorney-General or Lord Chancellor but events (Corbyn and Brexit) saw him become leader.
Nobody expected him to become PM after the 2024 election given where Labour were starting from. Had Boris Johnson not had violated lockdown rules/lied about putting a sexual predator in a position of authority Boris Johnson might still be PM today/Tories still in power.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
Amorim will be replaced by the Crystal Palace manager this week. You heard it here first.
More likely Nuno, I think Glasner will be looking at German clubs and Man Utd are a clown show so he won’t want to tarnish his career.
He does actually make 3 at the back work though.
Playing on the break. Not sure that's what Man Utd aspire to.
I think they'll take not getting relegated right now.
For many fans of smaller clubs that’s always the first requirement. Fifty points in league two sees you safe. Town need another 32 for comfort…
Man United definitely looking at getting to 38 points for safety this season, though West Ham, Wolves and Leeds are absolutely shit and Villa can't buy a goal so I think they'll be safe regardless like we were last season.
Amorim will be replaced by the Crystal Palace manager this week. You heard it here first.
More likely Nuno, I think Glasner will be looking at German clubs and Man Utd are a clown show so he won’t want to tarnish his career.
He does actually make 3 at the back work though.
Playing on the break. Not sure that's what Man Utd aspire to.
I think they'll take not getting relegated right now.
For many fans of smaller clubs that’s always the first requirement. Fifty points in league two sees you safe. Town need another 32 for comfort…
Man United definitely looking at getting to 38 points for safety this season, though West Ham, Wolves and Leeds are absolutely shit and Villa can't buy a goal so I think they'll be safe regardless like we were last season.
Villa will turn it around, so will forest under Ange. And Burnley have something about them. Which means a straight shootout for the final relegation spot between Dirty Leeds and Yanited, with Wolves and West Ham goners.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
Andy Burnham's an interesting one. Quite the ideological chameleon imo. Clearly ambitious. He'd sound like a Northerner which might be helpful against Farage. But not seen much of a program for what he'd do differently.
I thought he was weak during the Brown Government but he has reinvented himself in Manchester. He says the right things at the right time. He leads in the event of catastrophe and his comms are very good. I still don't like him but he is far less wooden than Starmer and would be quite content to call Farage to account.
"less wooden than Starmer". I mean, talk about low bars. We are in limbo territory here.
The bar is getting so low, even Warwick Davis is thinking he might struggle to limbo it.
I remember when the bar was lowered to he might have had a personality bypass, but he is honest and at least he appears to be vaguely competent.
In fact he is just a more boring form of liar without many signs of knowing what he is doing. He does always have a tidy desk though, as nothing ever f##king crosses it.
I've mentioned the two theories that have are plausible.
1) He never wanted to be an MP, the window for him becoming an MP was quite narrow so he didn't have much time to fully think it through, from retiring as DPP to deciding to stand.
and
2) Once he decided to become an MP his ambition was to be Attorney-General or Lord Chancellor but events (Corbyn and Brexit) saw him become leader.
Nobody expected him to become PM after the 2024 election given where Labour were starting from. Had Boris Johnson not had violated lockdown rules/lied about putting a sexual predator in a position of authority Boris Johnson might still be PM today/Tories still in power.
It is impressive how fast he has managed to tank Labour ratings, hire a load of people who have had to go in disgrace, while personally he appears to have the political instincts of Rishi Sunak combined with the personal ratings of Boris post running Ibiza style foam parties in #10. People really really don't seem to like him at all without there being a specific thing that causes that reaction.
Amorim will be replaced by the Crystal Palace manager this week. You heard it here first.
More likely Nuno, I think Glasner will be looking at German clubs and Man Utd are a clown show so he won’t want to tarnish his career.
He does actually make 3 at the back work though.
Playing on the break. Not sure that's what Man Utd aspire to.
I remember when we were looking for Klopp's replacement the reason we went for Slot and not Amorim was the sporting director thought Amorim's style just wouldn't work in the premier league without spending a lot of money on reshaping the squad to find the players to fit his system.
Bullet dodged.
Prem football so tight in the middle, like a game of chess, Arsnil at Anfield, both sides couldn’t be played through, or even round. But before kick off, Amorim has conceded the middle, with an extra one in defence, and what should be at least one extra midfielder preventing them being played through marking nothing out wide as a wing back - that’s where you would want your opponent, out of shaping the game for long periods. It’s been crazy idea from the start, it was never going to work in the Prem.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think pb is really unrepresentative on this topic to be honest. It’s increasingly hard to find anyone that doesn’t think this country has gone stark raving mad in recent years with immigration. I even had a Labour Party official admit to me recently that they would be absolutely fine with a policy of net negative migration.
‘Arne Time’ has replaced Fergie Time as Liverpool show hunger to keep their title
Never leave a Liverpool match early. Those that have done so might think the champions are still awaiting their first victory of the season.
They took 88 minutes to secure the points against Bournemouth on the opening day, struck a winner in the 100th against Newcastle United and beat Arsenal with an 83rd-minute free-kick two weeks ago.
Amorim will be replaced by the Crystal Palace manager this week. You heard it here first.
More likely Nuno, I think Glasner will be looking at German clubs and Man Utd are a clown show so he won’t want to tarnish his career.
He does actually make 3 at the back work though.
Playing on the break. Not sure that's what Man Utd aspire to.
I think they'll take not getting relegated right now.
For many fans of smaller clubs that’s always the first requirement. Fifty points in league two sees you safe. Town need another 32 for comfort…
Man United definitely looking at getting to 38 points for safety this season, though West Ham, Wolves and Leeds are absolutely shit and Villa can't buy a goal so I think they'll be safe regardless like we were last season.
Villa will turn it around, so will forest under Ange. And Burnley have something about them. Which means a straight shootout for the final relegation spot between Dirty Leeds and Yanited, with Wolves and West Ham goners.
As a Spurs fan the idea that Ange will do well at Forest looks very remote to me. Nuno built that team on solid defence, very much what Spurs did before he arrived under Conte. For half a season Ange was able to do well because the defensive instinct of the team was able to balance his crazy all out attack approach and we nabbed 5th place. When it was a full season with Ange stamping out any defensive approach to matches it completely destroyed us and we finished 17th. Ange doesn't have a plan B and the players just have to wing it. I will always be grateful to him for delivering a trophy after so many of us had given up hope but over a nearly full season inheriting a team I don't feel that he will do well. Forest will do well to finish top half with him and if the ownership digs in they may find that relegation beckons.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Latest: The suspect arrested in Charlie Kirk aggravated murder case, Tyler Robinson, has not been providing information to investigators, sources told @CBSNews . His roommate is cooperating with law enforcement and isn't expected to be charged at this point. Sources cautioned that it's always possible that another witness or piece of evidence could emerge.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
Checking her wiki, apparently big into am-dram...please no more politicians coming out singing on stage.....
Andy Burnham's an interesting one. Quite the ideological chameleon imo. Clearly ambitious. He'd sound like a Northerner which might be helpful against Farage. But not seen much of a program for what he'd do differently.
I thought he was weak during the Brown Government but he has reinvented himself in Manchester. He says the right things at the right time. He leads in the event of catastrophe and his comms are very good. I still don't like him but he is far less wooden than Starmer and would be quite content to call Farage to account.
"less wooden than Starmer". I mean, talk about low bars. We are in limbo territory here.
The bar is getting so low, even Warwick Davis is thinking he might struggle to limbo it.
I remember when the bar was lowered to he might have had a personality bypass, but he is honest and at least he appears to be vaguely competent.
In fact he is just a more boring form of liar without many signs of knowing what he is doing. He does always have a tidy desk though, as nothing ever f##king crosses it.
I've mentioned the two theories that have are plausible.
1) He never wanted to be an MP, the window for him becoming an MP was quite narrow so he didn't have much time to fully think it through, from retiring as DPP to deciding to stand.
and
2) Once he decided to become an MP his ambition was to be Attorney-General or Lord Chancellor but events (Corbyn and Brexit) saw him become leader.
Nobody expected him to become PM after the 2024 election given where Labour were starting from. Had Boris Johnson not had violated lockdown rules/lied about putting a sexual predator in a position of authority Boris Johnson might still be PM today/Tories still in power.
It is impressive how fast he has managed to tank Labour ratings, hire a load of people who have had to go in disgrace, while personally he appears to have the political instincts of Rishi Sunak combined with the personal ratings of Boris post running Ibiza style foam parties in #10. People really really don't seem to like him at all without there being a specific thing that causes that reaction.
He’s proof that negative charisma exists. It is a thing. You can have anti-charm
I am slightly reassured that so many of my fellow Britons share my fierce reflexive dislike of him
I’d like to say I feel sorry for him but I don’t. He’s done so many things which are deliberately treacherous, eg Chagos
I just want him gone so I can never think about him again. I’d welcome Burnham as PM for simply that reason
Amorim will be replaced by the Crystal Palace manager this week. You heard it here first.
More likely Nuno, I think Glasner will be looking at German clubs and Man Utd are a clown show so he won’t want to tarnish his career.
He does actually make 3 at the back work though.
Playing on the break. Not sure that's what Man Utd aspire to.
I think they'll take not getting relegated right now.
For many fans of smaller clubs that’s always the first requirement. Fifty points in league two sees you safe. Town need another 32 for comfort…
Man United definitely looking at getting to 38 points for safety this season, though West Ham, Wolves and Leeds are absolutely shit and Villa can't buy a goal so I think they'll be safe regardless like we were last season.
Villa will turn it around, so will forest under Ange. And Burnley have something about them. Which means a straight shootout for the final relegation spot between Dirty Leeds and Yanited, with Wolves and West Ham goners.
As a Spurs fan the idea that Ange will do well at Forest looks very remote to me. Nuno built that team on solid defence, very much what Spurs did before he arrived under Conte. For half a season Ange was able to do well because the defensive instinct of the team was able to balance his crazy all out attack approach and we nabbed 5th place. When it was a full season with Ange stamping out any defensive approach to matches it completely destroyed us and we finished 17th. Ange doesn't have a plan B and the players just have to wing it. I will always be grateful to him for delivering a trophy after so many of us had given up hope but over a nearly full season inheriting a team I don't feel that he will do well. Forest will do well to finish top half with him and if the ownership digs in they may find that relegation beckons.
I agree. It’s not just the pundits saying for AngeBall he needs a completely different squad than he inherited at Forest - very fast defenders if you play such a high line, and forwards who can hold it and join in midfield - even with the squad for AngeBall it didn’t work at Spurs - no matter how many pacy defenders, such a high line is too great a risk. AngeBall is old fashioned TikiTaka, from days Barcelona ate out on it, but football has evolved to post TikiTaka, the line now is deep, deliberately so to draw your opponent on, open space in opponents to play through them.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
This is quite interesting. It lines up with others’ earlier analysis that even the sharp end of the spear as regards immigration concerns, will probably end up breaking for Farage rather than Advance or whatever they will go by at the next election.
Since people are asking, I went to the Unite the Kingdom rally to film interviews with people on the ground as well as Tommy and other speakers backstage. I have been to pro-Palestine, pro-Israel, climate protests etc so have a good sense of the rally in context of other events. Our film will be out soon.
My thoughts:
- The police estimate for attendance (110k) seems like a massive undercount and organiser claim of "millions" is an exaggeration. I would guess 400-600k.
- I saw no violence in the main area of the rally. Scuffles seem to have broken out on a side street away from the main protest (opposite Horse Guard) where due to large numbers of people attending many people who wanted to see the rally could not. I did not see the actual altercation but did see riot police slowly and very professionally moving back the protestors and then collecting a few dozen bottles that had clearly been thrown at them.
- Were the people in attendance "far right"? We should define "far right" which to me would be a racist party with neo-Nazi sympathies like the BNP. I obviously didn't speak to every single person there but I, a well known immigrant with Jewish ancestry, found it a challenge to walk through the crowd with dozens of people draped in England flags stopping to shake my hand and thank me for being there. I had absolutely no trouble being there and did not feel unsafe at any point. Both on stage and in the audience were many, many people of different races and colours. The day ended with a black choir signing Jerusalem.
- Among the speakers, there certainly were a few people who represent fringe parties of the European right. For someone like me who always thought a fake hatred of the French was a key part of British identity it was finny being at a patriotic British event where a speech was delivered in French by a politician (Eric Zemmour) in French. There were also speeches from the AfD, Vox and others. My sense overall was that some of the people on stage were probably far closer to being fringe rightists than those attending.
- Like every other protest I've attended, asking people what specifically they wanted to achieve did not typically produce substantive answers beyond "The politicians need to listen to the people", "We've had enough" etc. If I had to sum up the drivers of people attending, based on my conversations I would say that people's concerns centre around illegal immigration, censorship of speech and failures of integration.
Our film will be out today or tomorrow so you'll be able to watch and judge for yourself.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
Andy Burnham's an interesting one. Quite the ideological chameleon imo. Clearly ambitious. He'd sound like a Northerner which might be helpful against Farage. But not seen much of a program for what he'd do differently.
I thought he was weak during the Brown Government but he has reinvented himself in Manchester. He says the right things at the right time. He leads in the event of catastrophe and his comms are very good. I still don't like him but he is far less wooden than Starmer and would be quite content to call Farage to account.
"less wooden than Starmer". I mean, talk about low bars. We are in limbo territory here.
The bar is getting so low, even Warwick Davis is thinking he might struggle to limbo it.
I remember when the bar was lowered to he might have had a personality bypass, but he is honest and at least he appears to be vaguely competent.
In fact he is just a more boring form of liar without many signs of knowing what he is doing. He does always have a tidy desk though, as nothing ever f##king crosses it.
I've mentioned the two theories that have are plausible.
1) He never wanted to be an MP, the window for him becoming an MP was quite narrow so he didn't have much time to fully think it through, from retiring as DPP to deciding to stand.
and
2) Once he decided to become an MP his ambition was to be Attorney-General or Lord Chancellor but events (Corbyn and Brexit) saw him become leader.
Nobody expected him to become PM after the 2024 election given where Labour were starting from. Had Boris Johnson not had violated lockdown rules/lied about putting a sexual predator in a position of authority Boris Johnson might still be PM today/Tories still in power.
It is impressive how fast he has managed to tank Labour ratings, hire a load of people who have had to go in disgrace, while personally he appears to have the political instincts of Rishi Sunak combined with the personal ratings of Boris post running Ibiza style foam parties in #10. People really really don't seem to like him at all without there being a specific thing that causes that reaction.
He’s proof that negative charisma exists. It is a thing. You can have anti-charm
I would tend to think of negative charisma as when people are fascinatingly awful, rather than viscerally disliked, but in fairness if that were the case I'm not sure what term might be applicable for the latter.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
Reform's main concern is not knowing how much of the polling is actually support and how much is dissatisfaction. Not knowing how many of their 'grey vote' will, closer to sn actual election, find a reason to cling to what they know and go back to the Tories or even (heaven forbid) Labour (to a lesser extent younger Reformers too). Heavy dissatisfaction with govt and opposition is getting them GE winning leads in parts of the country in local elections but by no means all.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
Reform's main concern is not knowing how much of the polling is actually support and how much is dissatisfaction. Not knowing how many of their 'grey vote' will, closer to sn actual election, find a reason to cling to what they know and go back to the Tories or even (heaven forbid) Labour (to a lesser extent younger Reformers too). Heavy dissatisfaction with govt and opposition is getting them GE winning leads in parts of the country in local elections but by no means all.
The longer things go on without a Tory recovery (and none is in sight) the better the chance the dissatisfaction vote stays with Reform. I think it is as close as we've ever been to seeing the Tories fall - it's not assured yet, but it is far closer than their remaining support is acting like it is (those that are not just wanting to be taken over that is).
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
I know well the area where she grew up and went to school (and became Head Girl). Working class it is not. Going on to read classics at Cambridge, joining the Goldmans Grad scheme, a quick detour as a Tory spad and then a safe shire seat… there is nothing inherently wrong with any of this. But this is very far from the fresh approach that you claim.
Interesting that you would invite something so boring to share a space with you - even if it is your intestines.
Maggot cheese doesn't sound boring to me. It sounds altogether too ... lively.
The interesting thing about maggots is the enzymes they secrete and dump around them to rot their protein-rich homes. For instance, corpse maggots do. Probably have all sorts of effects on other organisms (primarily to deter competition).
This video argues that the locals are acclimatised: visitors, not so much. Especially in the intestines. Edit: But IANAE.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
she's about as working class as Starmer and Reeves
"Pecorino is most desirable if made from milk collected towards the end of June, due to the effects of the reproductive cycle of sheep on their lactation, and local fermentation traditions associate higher quality casu martzu with exposure to a warm sirocco wind, which is thought to additionally soften the cheese to encourage further maggot activity.[4] The overall fermentation process takes a total of three months.[4]"
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
Reform's main concern is not knowing how much of the polling is actually support and how much is dissatisfaction. Not knowing how many of their 'grey vote' will, closer to sn actual election, find a reason to cling to what they know and go back to the Tories or even (heaven forbid) Labour (to a lesser extent younger Reformers too). Heavy dissatisfaction with govt and opposition is getting them GE winning leads in parts of the country in local elections but by no means all.
The longer things go on without a Tory recovery (and none is in sight) the better the chance the dissatisfaction vote stays with Reform. I think it is as close as we've ever been to seeing the Tories fall - it's not assured yet, but it is far closer than their remaining support is acting like it is (those that are not just wanting to be taken over that is).
What does 'recovery' look like though? Opinion polling? Local elections results? Being second in the polls behind Reform and ahead of Labour? The current polling 'reality' has been with us for 4 and a half months only. It just feels like longer. Theres no real reason for the polling to change at the moment but polling is just noise, the next big test comes in May, almost twice as far away as the current Reform polling lead has been in place.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
I know well the area where she grew up and went to school (and became Head Girl). Working class it is not. Going on to read classics at Cambridge, joining the Goldmans Grad scheme, a quick detour as a Tory spad and then a safe shire seat… there is nothing inherently wrong with any of this. But this is very far from the fresh approach that you claim.
On-topic, though. Similar to Burnham in some ways. Superficially fresh face and clean hands, said some things that appeal to the selectorate, but not really plausible. (In Lam's case, get back to us in half a decade, preferably a decade.)
That we're talking about Andy and Katie tells of the general cheesed-offness we all have with all politicians on general. Even Ed Davey is being sniped at;
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
Like all big companies, it depends who you get, but I must say my experience of working with Goldman Sachs on a couple of financial transactions is the exact opposite - I found them a bunch of fly-by-night cowboys who would say anything to impress their clients and pocket their fees, and were great at selling sub-standard work (financial models in our case) for a fortune, and pretending they understood stuff when they didn't. They recruit from the same talent pool and have very much the same attitude to their staff as McKinseys, with similar, often disastrous, results for their clients unless those clients keep the closest of eyes on them and their work.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
Yes, I really like her. My tip for the top. Tried to back her at 100/1 as next Con leader and managed to get £3.75 at 80
No reason why a deal can't be cut with her and like minded Tories with Reform surely? I would like to think they won't put much effort into challenging her in Kent next time
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
She was SPAD to, inter alia, the following ministers, Robert Jenrick, Suella Braverman, and Boris Johnson.
She is no cleanskin and plenty of people in the Tory party know how to kibosh her.
Also a little disturbing, the Kdrama 'Tempest' just started airing. In the first episode, the presidential candidate is assassinated with a shot to the neck.
"Pecorino is most desirable if made from milk collected towards the end of June, due to the effects of the reproductive cycle of sheep on their lactation, and local fermentation traditions associate higher quality casu martzu with exposure to a warm sirocco wind, which is thought to additionally soften the cheese to encourage further maggot activity.[4] The overall fermentation process takes a total of three months.[4]"
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
She was SPAD to, inter alia, the following ministers, Robert Jenrick, Suella Braverman, and Boris Johnson.
She is no cleanskin and plenty of people in the Tory party know how to kibosh her.
IDK, being a SPAD is a pretty minimal thing, maybe being a glorified bag carrier could come to harm someone but I feel like it is being rather peripheral as far as political baggge goes.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
I know well the area where she grew up and went to school (and became Head Girl). Working class it is not. Going on to read classics at Cambridge, joining the Goldmans Grad scheme, a quick detour as a Tory spad and then a safe shire seat… there is nothing inherently wrong with any of this. But this is very far from the fresh approach that you claim.
On-topic, though. Similar to Burnham in some ways. Superficially fresh face and clean hands, said some things that appeal to the selectorate, but not really plausible. (In Lam's case, get back to us in half a decade, preferably a decade.)
That we're talking about Andy and Katie tells of the general cheesed-offness we all have with all politicians on general. Even Ed Davey is being sniped at;
Farage owning his party so he can't be sacked is both bizarre and actually quite practical.
I thought Ed Davey should stand down before the next election if only because matching the result from last time would be rather challenging, they won practically all their target seats.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
She was SPAD to, inter alia, the following ministers, Robert Jenrick, Suella Braverman, and Boris Johnson.
She is no cleanskin and plenty of people in the Tory party know how to kibosh her.
IDK, being a SPAD is a pretty minimal thing, maybe being a glorified bag carrier could come to harm someone but I feel like it is being rather peripheral as far as political baggge goes.
Seems like a futile argument to me as well. Can she really have exerted that much influence as the office junior?
I think the budget is going to critical to Starmer's immediate position. Anything Labour came in with about economic competence is in the bin right now. Sure they can 'tax the rich', whatever that means, but that dont help the masses does it.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
She was SPAD to, inter alia, the following ministers, Robert Jenrick, Suella Braverman, and Boris Johnson.
She is no cleanskin and plenty of people in the Tory party know how to kibosh her.
IDK, being a SPAD is a pretty minimal thing, maybe being a glorified bag carrier could come to harm someone but I feel like it is being rather peripheral as far as political baggge goes.
Say hypothetically the SPAD was a supporter of the OSA, the Boriswave, and putting asylum seekers in hotels, and wrote papers like that, how to implement those policies and strategies to deal with opposition to them, do you think that would be a hindrance or a help if that came out during a leadership election?
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
She was SPAD to, inter alia, the following ministers, Robert Jenrick, Suella Braverman, and Boris Johnson.
She is no cleanskin and plenty of people in the Tory party know how to kibosh her.
Besides, she's been an MP for just over a year.
One of Starmer's and Sunak's problems has been political inexperience.
If you are pushing Lam as next Conservative leader- are you out of your tiny mind?
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
She was SPAD to, inter alia, the following ministers, Robert Jenrick, Suella Braverman, and Boris Johnson.
She is no cleanskin and plenty of people in the Tory party know how to kibosh her.
IDK, being a SPAD is a pretty minimal thing, maybe being a glorified bag carrier could come to harm someone but I feel like it is being rather peripheral as far as political baggge goes.
Say hypothetically the SPAD was a supporter of the OSA, the Boriswave, and putting asylum seekers in hotels, and wrote papers like that, how to implement those policies and strategies to deal with opposition to them, do you think that would be a hindrance or a help if that came out during a leadership election?
Who cares what a SPAD supported? They'd say they were doing what they were told.
I don't think her prospects are great, but because she licked someone's boots to be a Spad? I don't think that will be a factor.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
Like all big companies, it depends who you get, but I must say my experience of working with Goldman Sachs on a couple of financial transactions is the exact opposite - I found them a bunch of fly-by-night cowboys who would say anything to impress their clients and pocket their fees, and were great at selling sub-standard work (financial models in our case) for a fortune, and pretending they understood stuff when they didn't. They recruit from the same talent pool and have very much the same attitude to their staff as McKinseys, with similar, often disastrous, results for their clients unless those clients keep the closest of eyes on them and their work.
Yes, my experience with Goldman alumni is that some are truly exceptional, others bizarrely mediocre, and others the absolute dregs. The very worst real life “girl boss in a mini” I have ever encountered was at Goldmans as a roughly contemporaneous intake to Katie Lam and left the same year she did. Sounds like Max has been very fortunate indeed with those he’s encountered.
I think the budget is going to critical to Starmer's immediate position. Anything Labour came in with about economic competence is in the bin right now. Sure they can 'tax the rich', whatever that means, but that dont help the masses does it.
Theres a very high chance with Torsten Bell involved that Labour will do something equally or more damaging to themselves as Winter fuel.
I think the budget is going to critical to Starmer's immediate position. Anything Labour came in with about economic competence is in the bin right now. Sure they can 'tax the rich', whatever that means, but that dont help the masses does it.
Theres a very high chance with Torsten Bell involved that Labour will do something equally or more damaging to themselves as Winter fuel.
I think the budget is going to critical to Starmer's immediate position. Anything Labour came in with about economic competence is in the bin right now. Sure they can 'tax the rich', whatever that means, but that dont help the masses does it.
Theres a very high chance with Torsten Bell involved that Labour will do something equally or more damaging to themselves as Winter fuel.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
Even I agree with Enoch Powell on the death penalty and nuclear weapons. Not much else.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
She was SPAD to, inter alia, the following ministers, Robert Jenrick, Suella Braverman, and Boris Johnson.
She is no cleanskin and plenty of people in the Tory party know how to kibosh her.
IDK, being a SPAD is a pretty minimal thing, maybe being a glorified bag carrier could come to harm someone but I feel like it is being rather peripheral as far as political baggge goes.
Say hypothetically the SPAD was a supporter of the OSA, the Boriswave, and putting asylum seekers in hotels, and wrote papers like that, how to implement those policies and strategies to deal with opposition to them, do you think that would be a hindrance or a help if that came out during a leadership election?
Boris was in charge of the Boriswave, Badenoch supported relaxing the rules for migration, and Jenrick boasted of putting asylum seekers in hotels, yet one is currently Conservative leader, one is favourite to be the next and the other is still tipped to be it again by many people, so I can't see how being a SPAD, nodding along while these things were done before she was an MP is going to harm Lam that much
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Their waists and hands were tied together, forcing them to bend down and lick water to drink. The unscreened bathrooms contained only a single sheet to cover their lower bodies. Sunlight barely penetrated through a fist-sized hole, and they were only allowed access to the small yard for two hours. Detained by US immigration authorities for eight days, the workers and their families expressed shock, describing human rights violations and absurdities they could not have imagined as ordinary Koreans living in 2025.
Tommy Robinson, political genius, discuss. I'm going to start with this weekend which I'm gong to put at 400,000 attendees.
By comparison -
Stop the War - 15 Feb 2003 - attendance, between 1-2 million (even at lowest estimate, London's largest ever political demo) - outcome, war not stopped.
Suffragettes’ Women’s Sunday march - 21 June 1908, attendance, 300,000 - outcome, women have suffrage in 1918 GE.
The Countryside Alliance’s 2002 march against a ban on hunting with dogs - 22 Sept 2022, attendance 400,000 - outcome, hunting with dogs still banned 23 years later.
Based on numbers we're looking at Countryside Alliance as the best comparator. Political geniuses?
Their waists and hands were tied together, forcing them to bend down and lick water to drink. The unscreened bathrooms contained only a single sheet to cover their lower bodies. Sunlight barely penetrated through a fist-sized hole, and they were only allowed access to the small yard for two hours. Detained by US immigration authorities for eight days, the workers and their families expressed shock, describing human rights violations and absurdities they could not have imagined as ordinary Koreans living in 2025.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
OT - Burnham would win that BE if, ironically, effectively as an opposition candidate!
However, others know this better than me but aren't Lab BE candidates pretty much under veto by Lab Head Office. Would they even let Burnham try to be the candidate?
Here's an idea for a fresh face for the Tories. Someone who wasn't head boy/girl. And never worked anywhere near finance or journalism.
Can someone without the false arrogance of a head boy/girl actually run the country? Or will they be overcome by the civil service? I'd hope so, but I'm not sure.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness
I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.
A curtailed career at Goldmans to become a spad before the age of 30. She’s the last thing this country needs right now.
A career at Goldmans makes her the perfect candidate, one thing that they instill in their people is a unflinching view of reality. Or at least that's been my experience of working with them, they're consistently the first ones to point out the flaws in a plan/policy and able to read a situation faster than others. I don't know if that still holds currently but it was definitely the case 10 or so years ago when I started my financial career and worked with a few Goldman alumni who were senior to me. Read what she's said and written about low wage immigration, how she's dissected the situation and proposed short and long term measures to bring it back down to earth.
My point more is that she has insufficient life experience. Had she done a decent shift at GS and then something outside of politics maybe. But this hurry to get to CCHQ no longer impresses me.
To make VP in six years is a decent shift IMO and you're going to hate this but to make VP in six years as a woman at GS is in itself an extremely impressive achievement, especially during the time she was coming up when banking and finance generally mocked the idea of DEI initiatives and it was basically individual performance and backstabbing that got promotions.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Her problem is that she was a SPAD during the last government, I am told her fingerprints are all over the OSA and the Boriswave.
It will be difficult to prove that, the briefings will likely come from Jenrick who she competes with. Ultimately I do think she offers the country something different to the current and previous batch of Tory leaders. She's also from a working class family and a 3rd generation immigrant. Again, there's character in there somewhere that we don't see that often.
I know well the area where she grew up and went to school (and became Head Girl). Working class it is not. Going on to read classics at Cambridge, joining the Goldmans Grad scheme, a quick detour as a Tory spad and then a safe shire seat… there is nothing inherently wrong with any of this. But this is very far from the fresh approach that you claim.
On-topic, though. Similar to Burnham in some ways. Superficially fresh face and clean hands, said some things that appeal to the selectorate, but not really plausible. (In Lam's case, get back to us in half a decade, preferably a decade.)
That we're talking about Andy and Katie tells of the general cheesed-offness we all have with all politicians on general. Even Ed Davey is being sniped at;
Farage owning his party so he can't be sacked is both bizarre and actually quite practical.
I thought Ed Davey should stand down before the next election if only because matching the result from last time would be rather challenging, they won practically all their target seats.
I wouldn't be surprised if he intends to. I got the impression he was enjoying his GE campaign because it would behis only one as Leader. I suspect had the outcome been the 25-30 seats everyone expected he would have stood down for Daisy Cooper quite quickly. But now there is more talent to draw on, I think he is holding on for a bit longer to give a chance for some to show what they're made of. Unfortunately, the media aren't the slightest bit interested so I've no idea.
I think if I were him I would announce at the party conference that I was going to stand for London Mayor. Khan is underwhelming and everyone else is worse or unknown.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
What?...
Je suis Charlie
I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.
Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?
Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw
Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
Well he wanted to post bail for the nutter who attacked Nancy Pelosi's husband.
And he said that Michelle Obama and other black women don't have 'brain processing power'.
And he said school shootings were a price worth paying for the 2nd amendment.
"Kirk Shooting Suspect Held 'Leftist Ideology,' Utah Governor Says Gov. Spencer Cox said the suspect had been "radicalized," and noted he had a romantic partner who is transitioning from male to female who is cooperating fully with investigators."
The mental gymnastics can finally end. The assassin was a radical leftist and it looks like he planned the assassination on discord with a transgender furry group who are now all being rounded up by the FBI.
Thomas Skinner has fallen from grace before he got started…
This has made Narinder even more upset about Strictly, so it has a positive side
Who?
A tiny Asian woman who sometimes gets called Fanny Flasher. I don't know who she is, but she keeps telling me on X that she should be on Strictly instead of Skinner. And someone else must think she's important; she was being filmed in from front of the counter-protest yesterday
"Kirk Shooting Suspect Held 'Leftist Ideology,' Utah Governor Says Gov. Spencer Cox said the suspect had been "radicalized," and noted he had a romantic partner who is transitioning from male to female who is cooperating fully with investigators."
The mental gymnastics can finally end. The assassin was a radical leftist and it looks like he planned the assassination on discord with a transgender furry group who are now all being rounded up by the FBI.
Their waists and hands were tied together, forcing them to bend down and lick water to drink. The unscreened bathrooms contained only a single sheet to cover their lower bodies. Sunlight barely penetrated through a fist-sized hole, and they were only allowed access to the small yard for two hours. Detained by US immigration authorities for eight days, the workers and their families expressed shock, describing human rights violations and absurdities they could not have imagined as ordinary Koreans living in 2025.
Unless they were North Koreans of course.
That was the joke ICE were making as they chained them up.
"Kirk Shooting Suspect Held 'Leftist Ideology,' Utah Governor Says Gov. Spencer Cox said the suspect had been "radicalized," and noted he had a romantic partner who is transitioning from male to female who is cooperating fully with investigators."
The mental gymnastics can finally end. The assassin was a radical leftist and it looks like he planned the assassination on discord with a transgender furry group who are now all being rounded up by the FBI.
I've got some insider sources that say the shooter took the Transpennine Express from Chester-le-Street to Redcar in 2019.
Comments
He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.
1) He never wanted to be an MP, the window for him becoming an MP was quite narrow so he didn't have much time to fully think it through, from retiring as DPP to deciding to stand.
and
2) Once he decided to become an MP his ambition was to be Attorney-General or Lord Chancellor but events (Corbyn and Brexit) saw him become leader.
Nobody expected him to become PM after the 2024 election given where Labour were starting from. Had Boris Johnson not had violated lockdown rules/lied about putting a sexual predator in a position of authority Boris Johnson might still be PM today/Tories still in power.
I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary
Good to hear him take a stand, finally.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/sep/14/britain-far-right-protesters-flag-keir-starmer
[Ryan] Giggs: We would never collapse like Liverpool
United winger reckons the successful foundations laid by Sir Alex Ferguson would save the club from a similar demise
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ryan-giggs-taunts-liverpool-saying-3335336
You literally drank shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_luwak
Participants ‘doctoring’ stones to make them more effective for throwing
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/14/stone-skimming-championships-cheating-scandal/ (£££)
Never leave a Liverpool match early. Those that have done so might think the champions are still awaiting their first victory of the season.
They took 88 minutes to secure the points against Bournemouth on the opening day, struck a winner in the 100th against Newcastle United and beat Arsenal with an 83rd-minute free-kick two weeks ago.
Now Burnley’s resistance was ended with a 95th-minute Mohamed Salah penalty
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/09/14/burnley-vs-liverpool-live-score-latest-premier-league-watch/ (£££)
Latest: The suspect arrested in Charlie Kirk aggravated murder case, Tyler Robinson, has not been providing information to investigators, sources told
@CBSNews
. His roommate is cooperating with law enforcement and isn't expected to be charged at this point. Sources cautioned that it's always possible that another witness or piece of evidence could emerge.
I am slightly reassured that so many of my fellow Britons share my fierce reflexive dislike of him
I’d like to say I feel sorry for him but I don’t. He’s done so many things which are deliberately treacherous, eg Chagos
I just want him gone so I can never think about him again. I’d welcome Burnham as PM for simply that reason
On the other hand, a lot of polls are finding it rising up the list of concerns since Farage's basically unchallenged summer of rhetoric on the issue.
There's stil.a lot of people, though, and according to all the surveys, for whom it still isn't a principal concern.
https://x.com/BassTunedToRed/status/1967283926193553708
https://x.com/konstantinkisin/status/1967249658146865494?s=46
Since people are asking, I went to the Unite the Kingdom rally to film interviews with people on the ground as well as Tommy and other speakers backstage. I have been to pro-Palestine, pro-Israel, climate protests etc so have a good sense of the rally in context of other events. Our film will be out soon.
My thoughts:
- The police estimate for attendance (110k) seems like a massive undercount and organiser claim of "millions" is an exaggeration. I would guess 400-600k.
- I saw no violence in the main area of the rally. Scuffles seem to have broken out on a side street away from the main protest (opposite Horse Guard) where due to large numbers of people attending many people who wanted to see the rally could not. I did not see the actual altercation but did see riot police slowly and very professionally moving back the protestors and then collecting a few dozen bottles that had clearly been thrown at them.
- Were the people in attendance "far right"? We should define "far right" which to me would be a racist party with neo-Nazi sympathies like the BNP. I obviously didn't speak to every single person there but I, a well known immigrant with Jewish ancestry, found it a challenge to walk through the crowd with dozens of people draped in England flags stopping to shake my hand and thank me for being there. I had absolutely no trouble being there and did not feel unsafe at any point. Both on stage and in the audience were many, many people of different races and colours. The day ended with a black choir signing Jerusalem.
- Among the speakers, there certainly were a few people who represent fringe parties of the European right. For someone like me who always thought a fake hatred of the French was a key part of British identity it was finny being at a patriotic British event where a speech was delivered in French by a politician (Eric Zemmour) in French. There were also speeches from the AfD, Vox and others. My sense overall was that some of the people on stage were probably far closer to being fringe rightists than those attending.
- Like every other protest I've attended, asking people what specifically they wanted to achieve did not typically produce substantive answers beyond "The politicians need to listen to the people", "We've had enough" etc. If I had to sum up the drivers of people attending, based on my conversations I would say that people's concerns centre around illegal immigration, censorship of speech and failures of integration.
Our film will be out today or tomorrow so you'll be able to watch and judge for yourself.
More than anything else she represents a complete break from the Boris and Truss era of the Tories rather than someone like Kemi or Jenrick who sat at the table rubber stamping all the poor decisions on spending and immigration under Boris.
Labour dont do female leaders
This video argues that the locals are acclimatised: visitors, not so much. Especially in the intestines. Edit: But IANAE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSX9WS_kqGg
Grab all they can
Everything Counts
In large amounts
At least Leon got it at its "best".
Theres no real reason for the polling to change at the moment but polling is just noise, the next big test comes in May, almost twice as far away as the current Reform polling lead has been in place.
That we're talking about Andy and Katie tells of the general cheesed-offness we all have with all politicians on general. Even Ed Davey is being sniped at;
Exclusive @theipaper.com: Sir Ed Davey has been told to raise his game by Liberal Democrat MPs amid growing concerns that the party is failing to cut through with the public
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/ed-davey-mps-raise-game-drop-stunts-3908970
Farage owning his party so he can't be sacked is both bizarre and actually quite practical.
No reason why a deal can't be cut with her and like minded Tories with Reform surely? I would like to think they won't put much effort into challenging her in Kent next time
She is no cleanskin and plenty of people in the Tory party know how to kibosh her.
In the first episode, the presidential candidate is assassinated with a shot to the neck.
One of Starmer's and Sunak's problems has been political inexperience.
If you are pushing Lam as next Conservative leader- are you out of your tiny mind?
I don't think her prospects are great, but because she licked someone's boots to be a Spad? I don't think that will be a factor.
Someone who wasn't head boy/girl. And never worked anywhere near finance or journalism.
https://bsky.app/profile/sharonk.bsky.social/post/3lysuzsn2vs2e
Their waists and hands were tied together, forcing them to bend down and lick water to drink. The unscreened bathrooms contained only a single sheet to cover their lower bodies. Sunlight barely penetrated through a fist-sized hole, and they were only allowed access to the small yard for two hours. Detained by US immigration authorities for eight days, the workers and their families expressed shock, describing human rights violations and absurdities they could not have imagined as ordinary Koreans living in 2025.
By comparison -
- Stop the War - 15 Feb 2003 - attendance, between 1-2 million (even at lowest estimate, London's largest ever political demo) - outcome, war not stopped.
- Suffragettes’ Women’s Sunday march - 21 June 1908, attendance, 300,000 - outcome, women have suffrage in 1918 GE.
- Poll tax protest - 31 March 1990, attendance 200,000 - outcome, poll tax abolished.
- The Countryside Alliance’s 2002 march against a ban on hunting with dogs - 22 Sept 2022, attendance 400,000 - outcome, hunting with dogs still banned 23 years later.
Based on numbers we're looking at Countryside Alliance as the best comparator. Political geniuses?Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge
However, others know this better than me but aren't Lab BE candidates pretty much under veto by Lab Head Office. Would they even let Burnham try to be the candidate?
I think if I were him I would announce at the party conference that I was going to stand for London Mayor. Khan is underwhelming and everyone else is worse or unknown.
And he said that Michelle Obama and other black women don't have 'brain processing power'.
And he said school shootings were a price worth paying for the 2nd amendment.
"Kirk Shooting Suspect Held 'Leftist Ideology,' Utah Governor Says
Gov. Spencer Cox said the suspect had been "radicalized," and noted he had a romantic partner who is transitioning from male to female who is cooperating fully with investigators."
The mental gymnastics can finally end. The assassin was a radical leftist and it looks like he planned the assassination on discord with a transgender furry group who are now all being rounded up by the FBI.
More than 20 Labour and Republican sources reveal how private outreach, public theatre and careful planning led to this week’s state visit
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/72fe5dc9c4076853
Gift link so no paywall.
Even at our worst in my lifetime we never finished a season at 16th and just above the relegation zone.
Even at our worst in that period we were never eclipsed by Everton, nor became our cities second club.
They've collapsed far harder and faster than Liverpool.