Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?
Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.
Robinson has already given his backing to Advance UK. Habib spoke at yesterday's rally
You've got to be on your toes to follow the shenanigans of the far right......,
What a time to rejoin the EU. If only we had a Labour leader with a little bit of backbone we could say goodbye to Trump and Mandy and steer a course back to civilisation
Sadly, I think that would lead to violent civil war.
Having a far right party on 25%+ in the polls is convergence with Europe - Italy, France, Germany. To name but a few.
Civilisation, eh?
As high as 56%, in Villefranche Sur Mer.
Whatever arguments there may be for rejoining the EU, marginalising the radical right is not one of them.
Otoh Brexiting doesn’t seem to have done much to marginalise the radical right either.
It was part of the same flow. The politicians sold the people on -
1) The People are Sovereign (no deference to an aristocracy) and can do as they wish - True Democracy 2) You aren’t allowed to change a growing number of parts of public life. The Process State regards you as a tomatoes to be processed into canned chopped tomato. Your part in the process is to shut up and obey. And jump in the can.
Strangely, the Sovereign People didn’t take well to (2)
Again, I would say that analysis is flawed. It's not the "Process State" that has processed people into canned chopped tomatoes: it's large corporations chasing profit. It's not a powerful state, it's a state that has ceded power to international corporations.
Yep. It isn't "the process state" that has closed down the High St in "left behind towns" it is Amazon.
It isn't "the process state" that has closed down your local butcher, greengrocer and pub, it's Asda, Tesco and Aldi.
It isn't "the process state" that has destroyed local and national newspapers, it is Social Media.
Etc etc.
And of course as consumers we have all played our part.
The process state though has massively increased turn over taxes which has absolutely hammered all those small businesses while Amazon can absorb them. I understand the thinking, turn-over taxes are hard to dodge so you get your money out of Amazon, but the level of turn over taxes is insane for small business.
There is a small business guy on YouTube who owns a wide range of successful businesses and employs over his various companies several 1000 people. A few years ago he bought an ice cream factory and the shops. He recently broke down the finances of his most successful ice cream cafe / shop location. On £1.5 million in gross turnover, once he has paid all the costs (remember he makes the ice cream himself), then the turn over taxes etc, he is down to less than £50k in profit. He had 10 shops and down to 2, because he said unless you can do over £1 million in gross turnover you will never make any money on a high street cafe. Its the turn over taxes that are the killer.
A massive problem that is hardly talked about in the UK (that isn't true in Germany), we have a small number of very large employers and a massive number of tiny employers. Now yes medium sized companies since the war have merged and been bought out, but the process system makes it incredible difficult to grow new small companies in the UK. We have hardly any that employ in the 1000s range.
That sounds like James Sinclair - watching him go from being very careful to be politically neutral to basically "this government is insane, why do they want to destroy small businesses" over the past year has been quite amusing.
He's right of course - loads of exemptions for the smallest businesses, as soon as you get to about 5 employees, or you want to move into a premises that over £12k a year in rent, or you somehow manage to make over £50k profit (on paper!) all of a sudden you get the full weight of all the taxation the government can throw at you. As someone who currently employs 5 people, and who would like to grow my business with some better premises etc etc, it feels like everything is pretty much designed to stop me.
Making it really easy to scale 3-5 person businesses into 10-20 businesses would probably do more for economic growth than almost anything else the government could do - even it was only achieved by some sorts of tax holidays that temporarily gave you some respite when you grow past a certain size.
Rebating business rates per FTE person employed might be an interesting thing to try which would help and incentivise business scaling.
It is him. His complaint over turn over taxes has been long held though. As long as I have watched his content he has brought up examples of the giant cost that is placed on businesses like his, and he isn't anti-regulation, in fact he credits strong regulation as giving him the ability to scale his child care business.
Politically, I reckon he probably didn't mind a bit of Tony Blair or David Cameron. Its since then that has had him increasingly struggling to stay "neutral".
All the changes in Reeves first budget will have hit him in particular really hard. He has businesses that requires lots of staff in child care and leisure industries, so higher minimum wage, higher employee NI, absolutely smash him. So not surprising ain't happy about the government.
What does he mean by turnover taxes? We have VAT, which is sort of (though not strictly) a turnover tax but has the highest registration threshold in Europe, and we have business rates which are a major headache and need reform, but are not turnover taxes in any sense.
Business rates and employers NI mainly. Also the steady ramping of the minimum wage to a point significantly higher than inflation.
I'm not sure there is a stupider form of taxation than taxing the provision of employment. Far better to abolish employers NI and raise corp/dividend tax rates to recover the lost revenue.
If you want to encourage business investment (which is where this mystical "growth" thing comes from) the idea tax regime is one where businesses are taxed very lightly (including on profits), but getting that profit out into the owners grubby little mitts is fairly heavily taxed (via dividends/income tax). But what do I know - I just run a small business that is struggling to grow because the system is so heavily stacked against it.
Can't have all the taxes depend on profit, or they would ebb and flow too greatly with the economic cycle.
Why's that a problem, provided the books balance over time? Government borrowing normally goes up in recessions and down in booms anyway, if the average tax take over 10/20 years balances the books, happy days.
The problem of course is that during the boom when the country is running a surplus, instead of paying debt down, the idiot politicians will spend it all on growing the state, assuming that their peak tax takes is normal, and then the debt will go mental during the bust. But that moron Gordon Brown did this anyway, which is one big underlying reasons why we're financially up the creek now.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Oswald Mosley...
Not really
Mosley was an established politician from a very wealthy upper class family, who then TRIED - and failed - to become a powerful demagogue
Not the same. All the best demagogues come from the gutter
Mosley was definitely a capable demagogue, and organised large marches, and street fights, and had a criminal record.
Although unless I've missed something, he was a lot more successful with women than Yaxley-Lennon.
The biggest rally Mosley organised was estimated at 10-12,000
There is no comparison
Lol, there’s actually an oswaldmosley.com. In typical bombastic style they say he organised the ‘largest indoor political meeting in the history of the world’, 30k at Earls Court.
There was certainly an infamous rally at Earls Court. Whether there were 30K there I don't recall.
I don’t even know how Liverpool have the brass neck to celebrate these late goals, when they are utterly unconvincing and undeserving of the win. It’s cringe seeing them go yeeeeaahhhhh with their arms in the air after the most unconvincing display of football week after week.
It was bizarre and cruel on Burnley
Can Man Utd get anything this afternoon? Lose 4.1 is Amorim sacked in the morning? It’s clear he’s lost the dressing room.
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I think you are being very generous and not quite realising just how angry labour mps are
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Oswald Mosley...
Not really
Mosley was an established politician from a very wealthy upper class family, who then TRIED - and failed - to become a powerful demagogue
Not the same. All the best demagogues come from the gutter
Mosley was definitely a capable demagogue, and organised large marches, and street fights, and had a criminal record.
Although unless I've missed something, he was a lot more successful with women than Yaxley-Lennon.
The biggest rally Mosley organised was estimated at 10-12,000
There is no comparison
Lol, there’s actually an oswaldmosley.com. In typical bombastic style they say he organised the ‘largest indoor political meeting in the history of the world’, 30k at Earls Court.
There was certainly an infamous rally at Earls Court. Whether there were 30K there I don't recall.
I don’t think Earls Court ever had 30k capacity. Google says 20k at its peak
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Oswald Mosley...
Not really
Mosley was an established politician from a very wealthy upper class family, who then TRIED - and failed - to become a powerful demagogue
Not the same. All the best demagogues come from the gutter
Mosley was definitely a capable demagogue, and organised large marches, and street fights, and had a criminal record.
Although unless I've missed something, he was a lot more successful with women than Yaxley-Lennon.
The biggest rally Mosley organised was estimated at 10-12,000
I don’t even know how Liverpool have the brass neck to celebrate these late goals, when they are utterly unconvincing and undeserving of the win. It’s cringe seeing them go yeeeeaahhhhh with their arms in the air after the most unconvincing display of football week after week.
Three points are three points, and you win the league by grinding out results on your poor days and going home with the points in the bag.
Poor days? They haven’t put a convincing performance together yet!
Euro fixtures will help, they are easy at this stage as Euro football is way off the Prem League.
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
And to be fair, if Starmer can get the economy pottering forward so that people steadily feel a bit better off, he will have deserved another term. Nobody has really managed that since 2008.
Total of 25 arrested at yesterday's march, using 300k as attendance which seems to be the accepted figure atm, that's a rate of about 0.008% or 0.83 per 10k. At Notting Hill carnival around 2,000,000 people attended over 3 days and 435 arrests were made a rate of 0.02% or 2.18 arrests per 10k.
I don't support Robinson at all, I think he's a **** of the highest order, however, attempts to characterise yesterday's march as violent is mistaken. Indeed it had less than half the incident rate as Notting Hill carnival which is celebrated by the hard left as an example of diversity etc...
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I think you are wrong. The hatchet job done on Starmer by the right wing media, both traditional and on X has done for him. He hasn't helped himself either.
The Telegraph has been particularly effective. The unhinged anti-Starmer headline normally bears little relationship to the text of the story. Allister Heath and Allison Pearson are the King and Queen of the unhinged Starmer headline.
Those who have debased Starmer had four years to prepare too. As they don't know yet who the next Labour PM will be that character has a window of advantage that Starmer did not.
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzy out in favour of something else to feign unhappiness. It’s how politics always works 99%. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I have said previously, at most there will be some sort of review of vetting procedures, Team Starmer found that they walked the line under the current guidance, he personally didn't see the full extent of it and nothing dodgy went close to his desk. And the upshot will be some poor sod nobody has ever heard of being given a cardboard box to stick his things in before being ejected from Downing Street as he will be pinned as the person who didn't look into things as hard as he could.
I agree, the game is there’s a media fuckmule volcano that needs fresh lava feed into it or a sacrificial lamb thrown into the volcano stops the eruption. It’s a bizarre game considering it should be so serious. I am beginning to equate politics with pro wrestling.
Is it the first “jobs for the boys” appointment that has ever gone wrong in British Politics? Or just the biggest most important ever?
Total of 25 arrested at yesterday's march, using 300k as attendance which seems to be the accepted figure atm, that's a rate of about 0.008% or 0.83 per 10k. At Notting Hill carnival around 2,000,000 people attended over 3 days and 435 arrests were made a rate of 0.02% or 2.18 arrests per 10k.
I don't support Robinson at all, I think he's a **** of the highest order, however, attempts to characterise yesterday's march as violent is mistaken. Indeed it had less than half the incident rate as Notting Hill carnival which is celebrated by the hard left as an example of diversity etc...
It's because it's the wrong people marching in support of the wrong things.
All sorts of excuses will be made one way, and vociferous condemnations the other.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
Total of 25 arrested at yesterday's march, using 300k as attendance which seems to be the accepted figure atm, that's a rate of about 0.008% or 0.83 per 10k. At Notting Hill carnival around 2,000,000 people attended over 3 days and 435 arrests were made a rate of 0.02% or 2.18 arrests per 10k.
I don't support Robinson at all, I think he's a **** of the highest order, however, attempts to characterise yesterday's march as violent is mistaken. Indeed it had less than half the incident rate as Notting Hill carnival which is celebrated by the hard left as an example of diversity etc...
I think both things can be true.
There does seem to have been some very ugly scenes and sure it will lead to more than 25 arrests in the end. Robinson definitely has a hardcore knuckle draggers that always attend his events and after a few cans of Stellar and some lines of Columbian marching powder they get like to have a ruck with the police. Every single time.
However, given the shear numbers of people, trying to portray it as a full on riot is ridiculous. It clearly wasn't just the usual EDL crowd and wasn't pitched battles. Its a bit like calling all Brexit voters racist, racists definitely voted Brexit, but not all Brexit voters are racists. There is clearly concern there, but a bit like all those people throwing their lot in with XR, I am not sure their high priest is one that you should be following.
Also, there were similar ugly scenes at BLM marches. But again that gets airbrushed.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Oh dear that bad ! Of course not as bad as Fox News who didn’t reprimand that loathsome creature for advocating the murder of homeless people .
Isn't it possible to think both view points are wrong and immoral? Why do you insist that people pick a side?
I’m not but apparently the right want free speech on steroids , although of course not if someone disagrees with their viewpoint ! Would the US administration be going after people if they made unsavoury comments about the death of a leftie. We know the answer.
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I think you are wrong. The hatchet job done on Starmer by the right wing media, both traditional and on X has done for him. He hasn't helped himself either.
The Telegraph has been particularly effective. The unhinged anti-Starmer headline normally bears little relationship to the text of the story. Allister Heath and Allison Pearson are the King and Queen of the unhinged Starmer headline.
Those who have debased Starmer had four years to prepare too. As they don't know yet who the next Labour PM will be that character has a window of advantage that Starmer did not.
I'd like the defenestration to happen quickly.
Bollocks.
Starmer came into office with a vast majority and a fair amount of good will.
He then proceeded to set fire to the goodwill. And burnt bridges with a range of the left.
He has done this to himself - you should really give him credit for the achievement.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Oswald Mosley...
Not really
Mosley was an established politician from a very wealthy upper class family, who then TRIED - and failed - to become a powerful demagogue
Not the same. All the best demagogues come from the gutter
Mosley was definitely a capable demagogue, and organised large marches, and street fights, and had a criminal record.
Although unless I've missed something, he was a lot more successful with women than Yaxley-Lennon.
BUF at peak has just under 40k members, How many members dies Yaxley-Lennon's organisation have?
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
The lowering of average IQs is now visible, all around. This is the art and politics of imbeciles
Indeed. Journalists who promote a bullshit narrative for hours into days until it ends up being shot down in flames.
Remember when Farage quoted Andrew Tate to promote the notion that Rudicabana was an asylum seeker. And PBs very own Leon quoted some MAGA f***tard about racist or transgender shit, but with Leon, where do we start?
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I think you are being very generous and not quite realising just how angry labour mps are
They are frustrated. But it’s the economy and lack of protecting working class people from cost of living they are frustrated by, the headline in flavour this week is just ephemeral.
Have you never experienced the situation where someone’s in a mood where everything you do is wrong, and you’ve got to work out what the underlying cause is? Fawlty Towers done it well where he was pretending he had forgotten the wedding anniversary. 😃
Behind all this are signs Number Ten have sussed out that underlying cause and working on it.
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzy out in favour of something else to feign unhappiness. It’s how politics always works 99%. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I have said previously, at most there will be some sort of review of vetting procedures, Team Starmer found that they walked the line under the current guidance, he personally didn't see the full extent of it and nothing dodgy went close to his desk. And the upshot will be some poor sod nobody has ever heard of being given a cardboard box to stick his things in before being ejected from Downing Street as he will be pinned as the person who didn't look into things as hard as he could.
I agree, the game is there’s a media fuckmule volcano that needs fresh lava feed into it or a sacrificial lamb thrown into the volcano stops the eruption. It’s a bizarre game considering it should be so serious. I am beginning to equate politics with pro wrestling.
Is it the first “jobs for the boys” appointment that has ever gone wrong in British Politics? Or just the biggest most important ever?
It was the bizarre idea that a “celeb” ambassador was better than a pro.
Then the more bizarre idea that the wining move was to appoint a man who is famous for resigning as a result of scandals. Scandals due to his friendships with rich, dubious characters.
Mandelbrot then trod on the proffered rake, in the style of Sideshow Bob
I don’t even know how Liverpool have the brass neck to celebrate these late goals, when they are utterly unconvincing and undeserving of the win. It’s cringe seeing them go yeeeeaahhhhh with their arms in the air after the most unconvincing display of football week after week.
Three points are three points, and you win the league by grinding out results on your poor days and going home with the points in the bag.
Poor days? They haven’t put a convincing performance together yet!
Euro fixtures will help, they are easy at this stage as Euro football is way off the Prem League.
Well the table says they’ve played four and won four, which is why they’re again top of the league and already likely to be contenders come April and May.
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I think you are wrong. The hatchet job done on Starmer by the right wing media, both traditional and on X has done for him. He hasn't helped himself either.
The Telegraph has been particularly effective. The unhinged anti-Starmer headline normally bears little relationship to the text of the story. Allister Heath and Allison Pearson are the King and Queen of the unhinged Starmer headline.
Those who have debased Starmer had four years to prepare too. As they don't know yet who the next Labour PM will be that character has a window of advantage that Starmer did not.
I'd like the defenestration to happen quickly.
Bollocks.
Starmer came into office with a vast majority and a fair amount of good will.
He then proceeded to set fire to the goodwill. And burnt bridges with a range of the left.
He has done this to himself - you should really give him credit for the achievement.
As with the John Harris article, and numerous lefty academics, it's never their fault, it's always people being hoodwinked by sinister forces
Total of 25 arrested at yesterday's march, using 300k as attendance which seems to be the accepted figure atm, that's a rate of about 0.008% or 0.83 per 10k. At Notting Hill carnival around 2,000,000 people attended over 3 days and 435 arrests were made a rate of 0.02% or 2.18 arrests per 10k.
I don't support Robinson at all, I think he's a **** of the highest order, however, attempts to characterise yesterday's march as violent is mistaken. Indeed it had less than half the incident rate as Notting Hill carnival which is celebrated by the hard left as an example of diversity etc...
*insufficient data*
Far too early to say how many, Plod doesn't use snatch squads [edit] so much now in crowd disorder but films and records. And weeks later turns up at suspects' homes etc.
Look again in maybe a month's time. You could be right, you could be ...
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzy out in favour of something else to feign unhappiness. It’s how politics always works 99%. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I have said previously, at most there will be some sort of review of vetting procedures, Team Starmer found that they walked the line under the current guidance, he personally didn't see the full extent of it and nothing dodgy went close to his desk. And the upshot will be some poor sod nobody has ever heard of being given a cardboard box to stick his things in before being ejected from Downing Street as he will be pinned as the person who didn't look into things as hard as he could.
I agree, the game is there’s a media fuckmule volcano that needs fresh lava feed into it or a sacrificial lamb thrown into the volcano stops the eruption. It’s a bizarre game considering it should be so serious. I am beginning to equate politics with pro wrestling.
Is it the first “jobs for the boys” appointment that has ever gone wrong in British Politics? Or just the biggest most important ever?
It was the bizarre idea that a “celeb” ambassador was better than a pro.
Then the more bizarre idea that the wining move was to appoint a man who is famous for resigning as a result of scandals. Scandals due to his friendships with rich, dubious characters.
Mandelbrot then trod on the proffered rake, in the style of Sideshow Bob
“ It was the bizarre idea that a “celeb” ambassador was better than a pro.”
I totally agree! Why shouldn’t the Ambassador just stay as an experienced career diplomat? 🤷♀️
What was it about this viciously networking failed politician and spin doctor, whose more than proved he can’t resist either favours or financial gain, that got both number ten - and PB - purring with delight earlier this year?
This Labour Government so in awe of US politics, we are now the kind of country who appoints Shirley Temples to Ambassador posts. You may say, Shirley you’re not serious. But i’m always serious on a Sunday. It’s a day to be serious upon. 😇
Adjacent to that one, and possibly for @RochdalePioneers , is the swap in and out again view for Youtubers reflecting with phrases an automated thing to insert cuts to keep itmore engaging?
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I think you are wrong. The hatchet job done on Starmer by the right wing media, both traditional and on X has done for him. He hasn't helped himself either.
The Telegraph has been particularly effective. The unhinged anti-Starmer headline normally bears little relationship to the text of the story. Allister Heath and Allison Pearson are the King and Queen of the unhinged Starmer headline.
Those who have debased Starmer had four years to prepare too. As they don't know yet who the next Labour PM will be that character has a window of advantage that Starmer did not.
I'd like the defenestration to happen quickly.
Bollocks.
Starmer came into office with a vast majority and a fair amount of good will.
He then proceeded to set fire to the goodwill. And burnt bridges with a range of the left.
He has done this to himself - you should really give him credit for the achievement.
Oh behave.
"Starmer plans on stopping work at six pm on Friday and not be returning to work until Monday morning. What will happen if war is declared at the weekend?" "Starmer is a part- time PM". And that was the week he won.
This Government had no honeymoon. Not that I am suggesting they should. They had no plan either. But they are still less crap than your lot from 2019.
Bridget was poor growing up. A stranger paid for her coat. She's helping ordinary children with the money raised from posh schools. Community action and campaigning. Ignore the inane nodding and it is squarely aimed at Labour members who will vote for deputy leader in a fortnight or so.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Oswald Mosley...
Not really
Mosley was an established politician from a very wealthy upper class family, who then TRIED - and failed - to become a powerful demagogue
Not the same. All the best demagogues come from the gutter
Mosley was definitely a capable demagogue, and organised large marches, and street fights, and had a criminal record.
Although unless I've missed something, he was a lot more successful with women than Yaxley-Lennon.
The biggest rally Mosley organised was estimated at 10-12,000
There is no comparison
Lol, there’s actually an oswaldmosley.com. In typical bombastic style they say he organised the ‘largest indoor political meeting in the history of the world’, 30k at Earls Court.
There was certainly an infamous rally at Earls Court. Whether there were 30K there I don't recall.
I don’t think Earls Court ever had 30k capacity. Google says 20k at its peak
As usual you get stuff so wrong. It was designed to have a capacity of 23,000 seated when built, so a lot more than that standing and more than 20,000. As time passes and safety measures change the allowed capacity of existing buildings decreases. Just look at stadium numbers.
The records quote over 30k at the rally, although pictures seem to show them seated which might challenge that, but you can't see the whole crowd and in those days many events exceeded the limits set on the attendance. The obvious example was the 'White horse cup final' where the attendance was estimated to be 300,000, although the official attendance was 126,000 because people surged in and the lower figure was ticket sales (even the ticket sales figure is way above the limit allowed in later years)
It is funny how you decrease the numbers of an event you don't want to be large and where there are plenty of quoted records and then double or treble the numbers of the generally accepted numbers for an event you want to be bigger.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
And to be fair, if Starmer can get the economy pottering forward so that people steadily feel a bit better off, he will have deserved another term. Nobody has really managed that since 2008.
Is it just our own governments fault, or is it world economic trends? Because the world economic forecasting for next 7 years is for abysmal growth everywhere.
Would “best growth in G7 really wash May 3rd 2029 if voters still feel cost of living in their housekeeping?
What prevents so many changes of government, no matter how naff or David Boring PMs are, is real fear of giving economy over to another party. How can Labour generate fear of handing the economy over to the goose stepping morons if voters feel it couldn’t be worse?
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Oswald Mosley...
Not really
Mosley was an established politician from a very wealthy upper class family, who then TRIED - and failed - to become a powerful demagogue
Not the same. All the best demagogues come from the gutter
Mosley was definitely a capable demagogue, and organised large marches, and street fights, and had a criminal record.
Although unless I've missed something, he was a lot more successful with women than Yaxley-Lennon.
The biggest rally Mosley organised was estimated at 10-12,000
There is no comparison
Lol, there’s actually an oswaldmosley.com. In typical bombastic style they say he organised the ‘largest indoor political meeting in the history of the world’, 30k at Earls Court.
There was certainly an infamous rally at Earls Court. Whether there were 30K there I don't recall.
I don’t think Earls Court ever had 30k capacity. Google says 20k at its peak
As usual you get stuff so wrong. It was designed to have a capacity of 23,000 seated when built, so a lot more than that standing and more than 20,000. As time passes and safety measures change the allowed capacity of existing buildings decreases. Just look at stadium numbers.
The records quote over 30k at the rally, although pictures seem to show them seated which might challenge that, but you can't see the whole crowd and in those days many events exceeded the limits set on the attendance. The obvious example was the 'White horse cup final' where the attendance was estimated to be 300,000, although the official attendance was 126,000 because people surged in and the lower figure was ticket sales (even the ticket sales figure is way above the limit allowed in later years)
It is funny how you decrease the numbers of an event you don't want to be large and where there are plenty of quoted records and then double or treble the numbers of the generally accepted numbers for an event you want to be bigger.
Twit.
I might feed this comment into Elevenlabs to get an audio version, for when I have trouble sleeping
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I think you are wrong. The hatchet job done on Starmer by the right wing media, both traditional and on X has done for him. He hasn't helped himself either.
The Telegraph has been particularly effective. The unhinged anti-Starmer headline normally bears little relationship to the text of the story. Allister Heath and Allison Pearson are the King and Queen of the unhinged Starmer headline.
Those who have debased Starmer had four years to prepare too. As they don't know yet who the next Labour PM will be that character has a window of advantage that Starmer did not.
I'd like the defenestration to happen quickly.
Oh MexPet. PB is the greatest record vault on the net, and on Wednesday you were laughing at us and telling us Starmer himself isn’t even remotely under threat by this. In fact weren’t, you arguing Mandy has to stay till after the state visit?
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
And to be fair, if Starmer can get the economy pottering forward so that people steadily feel a bit better off, he will have deserved another term. Nobody has really managed that since 2008.
Is it just our own governments fault, or is it world economic trends? Because the world economic forecasting for next 7 years is for abysmal growth everywhere.
Would “best growth in G7 really wash May 3rd 2029 if voters still feel cost of living in their housekeeping?
What prevents so many changes of government, no matter how naff or David Boring PMs are, is real fear of giving economy over to another party. How can Labour generate fear of handing the economy over to the goose stepping morons if voters feel it couldn’t be worse?
If you can look at an economy facing the highest taxes since WW2, the highest industrial energy costs in the world due to Net Zero, a crippled planning system, strikes, a disastrous employment rights bill (though let's hope it now gets booted into the long grass now Rayner has gone), and a burgeoning unproductive state hoovering up all the available resources, and you can make the gormless suggestion that it's 'world economic trends', why are you a Tory?
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
No one had ever heard of this a***hole until he became a political edgelord. If all you outraged right wing commentators ignored the t*** perhaps he'd go away.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
No one had ever heard of this a***hole until he became a political edgelord. If all you outraged right wing commentators ignored the t*** perhaps he'd go away.
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I think you are wrong. The hatchet job done on Starmer by the right wing media, both traditional and on X has done for him. He hasn't helped himself either.
The Telegraph has been particularly effective. The unhinged anti-Starmer headline normally bears little relationship to the text of the story. Allister Heath and Allison Pearson are the King and Queen of the unhinged Starmer headline.
Those who have debased Starmer had four years to prepare too. As they don't know yet who the next Labour PM will be that character has a window of advantage that Starmer did not.
I'd like the defenestration to happen quickly.
Bollocks.
Starmer came into office with a vast majority and a fair amount of good will.
He then proceeded to set fire to the goodwill. And burnt bridges with a range of the left.
He has done this to himself - you should really give him credit for the achievement.
Oh behave.
"Starmer plans on stopping work at six pm on Friday and not be returning to work until Monday morning. What will happen if war is declared at the weekend?" "Starmer is a part- time PM". And that was the week he won.
This Government had no honeymoon. Not that I am suggesting they should. They had no plan either. But they are still less crap than your lot from 2019.
Labour supporters' frustration at the lack of scrutiny of Farage's Reform is rather like Conservatives' frustration at the lack of scrutiny of Starmer's Labour before the 2024 election.
The Telegraph and the Mail have always been histrionic about Labour, as has frequently pointed out, so I am not sure that they are the reasons for the public's change of opinion on Labour since the election. The same people read them as before, the same people ignore them as before.
The FT's Miranda Green made a good point recently: Labour did have a honeymoon period, but it was before they actually entered government. They were riding high pretty much from the 2022 minibudget (probably even from Partygate onwards) and nothing really changed after that until they won the election, whatever the usual suspects threw at them. Once he entered Number 10, Starmer's famed genie transformed into a monkey's paw. I think a lot of the attention has been unfair, but so it was in the other direction before the election.
Part of the reason for the focus is that they are now in government and so it matters more; partly it is that Labour (and Starmer in particular) were so prissy and sanctimonious about government scandals when they were in opposition, so, as John Rentoul points out, they are being held to the higher standards which they presumed themselves innately to embody. But I think the main reason is that they are currently not succeeding in the actual business of government, particularly with regards to economic growth. If the economy were going gangbusters now (to say nothing of housebuilding) I don't think enough people would care about the scandals for them to matter.
Farage may not receive proper scrutiny on either policies or scandals until or unless he enters government, as was the case with Starmer. If Farage does become Prime Minister, that is where his problems really begin (for all sorts of reasons).
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Farrage is being canny, he keeps clear of Tommy and signals his distaste, whilst offering a hardline solution on immigration ('mass deportations ' are now allowed in a way Lowe was sacked for suggesting 6 months ago).
Waitrose shoppers know immigration needs a firm hand now and the size and low level menace of the crowds yesterday has been noted across middle England. Mr Farrage looks like he might fit the bill to make this go away.....
It reminds me if Mrs Thatcher and the NF. She deftly positioned herself as the respectable vehicle for anti-immigration and acted as an electoral lighting rod, depriving the NF of support and neutraralising immigration as an issue for a generation.
If Nigel looks set to do the same to Tommy he will win in some very middle class places, as the council by elections already show him on the cusp of doing tbf.
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I think you are wrong. The hatchet job done on Starmer by the right wing media, both traditional and on X has done for him. He hasn't helped himself either.
The Telegraph has been particularly effective. The unhinged anti-Starmer headline normally bears little relationship to the text of the story. Allister Heath and Allison Pearson are the King and Queen of the unhinged Starmer headline.
Those who have debased Starmer had four years to prepare too. As they don't know yet who the next Labour PM will be that character has a window of advantage that Starmer did not.
I'd like the defenestration to happen quickly.
Oh MexPet. PB is the greatest record vault on the net, and on Wednesday you were laughing at us and telling us Starmer himself isn’t even remotely under threat by this. In fact weren’t, you arguing Mandy has to stay till after the state visit?
Yes I did Rabbit. But I did get the Rayner crash right. Starmer hasn't gone yet, but I fear he is holed below the waterline, and not because of Rayner and Mandelson. But with the Labour Party Starmer's defenestration could take years to resolve.
Total of 25 arrested at yesterday's march, using 300k as attendance which seems to be the accepted figure atm, that's a rate of about 0.008% or 0.83 per 10k. At Notting Hill carnival around 2,000,000 people attended over 3 days and 435 arrests were made a rate of 0.02% or 2.18 arrests per 10k.
I don't support Robinson at all, I think he's a **** of the highest order, however, attempts to characterise yesterday's march as violent is mistaken. Indeed it had less than half the incident rate as Notting Hill carnival which is celebrated by the hard left as an example of diversity etc...
*insufficient data*
Far too early to say how many, Plod doesn't use snatch squads [edit] so much now in crowd disorder but films and records. And weeks later turns up at suspects' homes etc.
Look again in maybe a month's time. You could be right, you could be ...
And nothing on the pro-Palestine matches where hundreds of terrorists were arrested.
In all seriousness, I'd much rather the far-right indulged in a bit disruptive protest than, say, raping a Sikh woman. Good on the vast majority of them for doing it peacefully; I guess we'll just have to hope Tommy and rest will defend JSO and PA's right to free assembly in return.
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
And to be fair, if Starmer can get the economy pottering forward so that people steadily feel a bit better off, he will have deserved another term. Nobody has really managed that since 2008.
Is it just our own governments fault, or is it world economic trends? Because the world economic forecasting for next 7 years is for abysmal growth everywhere.
Would “best growth in G7 really wash May 3rd 2029 if voters still feel cost of living in their housekeeping?
What prevents so many changes of government, no matter how naff or David Boring PMs are, is real fear of giving economy over to another party. How can Labour generate fear of handing the economy over to the goose stepping morons if voters feel it couldn’t be worse?
If you can look at an economy facing the highest taxes since WW2, the highest industrial energy costs in the world due to Net Zero, a crippled planning system, strikes, a disastrous employment rights bill (though let's hope it now gets booted into the long grass now Rayner has gone), and a burgeoning unproductive state hoovering up all the available resources, and you can make the gormless suggestion that it's 'world economic trends', why are you a Tory?
You have to ask why a Tory is finding world economy to blame for lack of economic growth since 2008?
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Farrage is being canny, he keeps clear of Tommy and signals his distaste, whilst offering a hardline solution on immigration ('mass deportations ' are now allowed in a way Lowe was sacked for suggesting 6 months ago).
Waitrose shoppers know immigration needs a firm hand now and the size and low level menace of the crowds yesterday has been noted across middle England. Mr Farrage looks like he might fit the bill to make this go away.....
It reminds me if Mrs Thatcher and the NF. She deftly positioned herself as the respectable vehicle for anti-immigration and acted as an electoral lighting rod, depriving the NF of support and neutraralising immigration as an issue for a generation.
If Nigel looks set to do the same to Tommy he will win in some very middle class places, as the council by elections already show him on the cusp of doing tbf.
Farage has always been very good at knowing where to draw the line, and staying well away from the Tommy Robinson fan club. I’m sure he’s happy that a lot of them will vote Reform, but knows that he needs to keep a respectable distance from the more extreme views of the right.
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Oswald Mosley...
Not really
Mosley was an established politician from a very wealthy upper class family, who then TRIED - and failed - to become a powerful demagogue
Not the same. All the best demagogues come from the gutter
Mosley was definitely a capable demagogue, and organised large marches, and street fights, and had a criminal record.
Although unless I've missed something, he was a lot more successful with women than Yaxley-Lennon.
The biggest rally Mosley organised was estimated at 10-12,000
There is no comparison
Lol, there’s actually an oswaldmosley.com. In typical bombastic style they say he organised the ‘largest indoor political meeting in the history of the world’, 30k at Earls Court.
There was certainly an infamous rally at Earls Court. Whether there were 30K there I don't recall.
I don’t think Earls Court ever had 30k capacity. Google says 20k at its peak
As usual you get stuff so wrong. It was designed to have a capacity of 23,000 seated when built, so a lot more than that standing and more than 20,000. As time passes and safety measures change the allowed capacity of existing buildings decreases. Just look at stadium numbers.
The records quote over 30k at the rally, although pictures seem to show them seated which might challenge that, but you can't see the whole crowd and in those days many events exceeded the limits set on the attendance. The obvious example was the 'White horse cup final' where the attendance was estimated to be 300,000, although the official attendance was 126,000 because people surged in and the lower figure was ticket sales (even the ticket sales figure is way above the limit allowed in later years)
It is funny how you decrease the numbers of an event you don't want to be large and where there are plenty of quoted records and then double or treble the numbers of the generally accepted numbers for an event you want to be bigger.
Twit.
I might feed this comment into Elevenlabs to get an audio version, for when I have trouble sleeping
How are you posting all this from the Man Utd bench - shouldn’t you be out warming up?
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Oswald Mosley...
Not really
Mosley was an established politician from a very wealthy upper class family, who then TRIED - and failed - to become a powerful demagogue
Not the same. All the best demagogues come from the gutter
Mosley was definitely a capable demagogue, and organised large marches, and street fights, and had a criminal record.
Although unless I've missed something, he was a lot more successful with women than Yaxley-Lennon.
The biggest rally Mosley organised was estimated at 10-12,000
There is no comparison
Lol, there’s actually an oswaldmosley.com. In typical bombastic style they say he organised the ‘largest indoor political meeting in the history of the world’, 30k at Earls Court.
There was certainly an infamous rally at Earls Court. Whether there were 30K there I don't recall.
I don’t think Earls Court ever had 30k capacity. Google says 20k at its peak
As usual you get stuff so wrong. It was designed to have a capacity of 23,000 seated when built, so a lot more than that standing and more than 20,000. As time passes and safety measures change the allowed capacity of existing buildings decreases. Just look at stadium numbers.
The records quote over 30k at the rally, although pictures seem to show them seated which might challenge that, but you can't see the whole crowd and in those days many events exceeded the limits set on the attendance. The obvious example was the 'White horse cup final' where the attendance was estimated to be 300,000, although the official attendance was 126,000 because people surged in and the lower figure was ticket sales (even the ticket sales figure is way above the limit allowed in later years)
It is funny how you decrease the numbers of an event you don't want to be large and where there are plenty of quoted records and then double or treble the numbers of the generally accepted numbers for an event you want to be bigger.
Twit.
I might feed this comment into Elevenlabs to get an audio version, for when I have trouble sleeping
I see your usual response when you are shown to be wrong. As usual. It would be easier and more honest of you to just say: Yep I was wrong once more.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
No one had ever heard of this a***hole until he became a political edgelord. If all you outraged right wing commentators ignored the t*** perhaps he'd go away.
Are you talking about Bob Vylan or yourself?
Fair enough Isam. A very good riposte worthy of the like I have given it.
PS. Have you noticed autocorrect changes Isam to Islam? I had to quickly correct after posting and pre correct before posting this further amendment.
Andy Burnham's an interesting one. Quite the ideological chameleon imo. Clearly ambitious. He'd sound like a Northerner which might be helpful against Farage. But not seen much of a program for what he'd do differently.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
No one had ever heard of this a***hole until he became a political edgelord. If all you outraged right wing commentators ignored the t*** perhaps he'd go away.
Are you talking about Bob Vylan or yourself?
Fair enough Isam. A very good riposte worthy of the like I have given it.
PS. Have you noticed autocorrect changes Isam to Islam? I had to quickly correct after posting and pre correct before posting this further amendment.
Thanks! I’m glad you could see the funny side of it. 👍🏻
I hadn’t noticed that, probably because I don’t think I’ve typed the word since I made it my username
Total of 25 arrested at yesterday's march, using 300k as attendance which seems to be the accepted figure atm, that's a rate of about 0.008% or 0.83 per 10k. At Notting Hill carnival around 2,000,000 people attended over 3 days and 435 arrests were made a rate of 0.02% or 2.18 arrests per 10k.
I don't support Robinson at all, I think he's a **** of the highest order, however, attempts to characterise yesterday's march as violent is mistaken. Indeed it had less than half the incident rate as Notting Hill carnival which is celebrated by the hard left as an example of diversity etc...
*insufficient data*
Far too early to say how many, Plod doesn't use snatch squads [edit] so much now in crowd disorder but films and records. And weeks later turns up at suspects' homes etc.
Look again in maybe a month's time. You could be right, you could be ...
Yes, indeed some of the protesting training that I have been to emphasised the tactic of being carried off and taken to the nick. If enough people do this the police are so depleted that the policing becomes impossible. Not that I would do such a thing myself, of course. I was at the workshop on how to cause maximum difficulty without being arrested.
Hence the video teams at football matches and protests like yesterday, then the knock on the door midweek. At violent protests the police will only use a snatch squad on ringleaders or those who are a real threat to others.
There’s no future in this story, Big G, it will fizzle out in favour of another headline to direct unhappiness at. It’s how politics always works 99% of the time. Starmer was ultra careful in PMQs not to answer a question with a lie, that’s the moment he got away with it.
Underlying it is lack of economic growth and easing of credit crisis, once/if Starmer gets that he’s safe as houses to lead Labour into the next GE.
I think you are wrong. The hatchet job done on Starmer by the right wing media, both traditional and on X has done for him. He hasn't helped himself either.
The Telegraph has been particularly effective. The unhinged anti-Starmer headline normally bears little relationship to the text of the story. Allister Heath and Allison Pearson are the King and Queen of the unhinged Starmer headline.
Those who have debased Starmer had four years to prepare too. As they don't know yet who the next Labour PM will be that character has a window of advantage that Starmer did not.
I'd like the defenestration to happen quickly.
Bollocks.
Starmer came into office with a vast majority and a fair amount of good will.
He then proceeded to set fire to the goodwill. And burnt bridges with a range of the left.
He has done this to himself - you should really give him credit for the achievement.
Oh behave.
"Starmer plans on stopping work at six pm on Friday and not be returning to work until Monday morning. What will happen if war is declared at the weekend?" "Starmer is a part- time PM". And that was the week he won.
This Government had no honeymoon. Not that I am suggesting they should. They had no plan either. But they are still less crap than your lot from 2019.
Labour supporters' frustration at the lack of scrutiny of Farage's Reform is rather like Conservatives' frustration at the lack of scrutiny of Starmer's Labour before the 2024 election.
The Telegraph and the Mail have always been histrionic about Labour, as has frequently pointed out, so I am not sure that they are the reasons for the public's change of opinion on Labour since the election. The same people read them as before, the same people ignore them as before.
The FT's Miranda Green made a good point recently: Labour did have a honeymoon period, but it was before they actually entered government. They were riding high pretty much from the 2022 minibudget (probably even from Partygate onwards) and nothing really changed after that until they won the election, whatever the usual suspects threw at them. Once he entered Number 10, Starmer's famed genie transformed into a monkey's paw. I think a lot of the attention has been unfair, but so it was in the other direction before the election.
Part of the reason for the focus is that they are now in government and so it matters more; partly it is that Labour (and Starmer in particular) were so prissy and sanctimonious about government scandals when they were in opposition, so, as John Rentoul points out, they are being held to the higher standards which they presumed themselves innately to embody. But I think the main reason is that they are currently not succeeding in the actual business of government, particularly with regards to economic growth. If the economy were going gangbusters now (to say nothing of housebuilding) I don't think enough people would care about the scandals for them to matter.
Farage may not receive proper scrutiny on either policies or scandals until or unless he enters government, as was the case with Starmer. If Farage does become Prime Minister, that is where his problems really begin (for all sorts of reasons).
A very perceptive post. I do believe Labour should be held to higher account than the Johnsonian Conservatives were. Johnson drove a coach and horses through Parliamentary etiquette. And I suspect they will be held to account more rigorously than a future Reform rabble government.
Starmer has been very ruthless in his dismissals from Cabinet and from the Party, but none of them ever hit the nail directly on the head. His Comms team are so poor, even doing the right thing begs another question.
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right
I think we might be making educated guesses at the possible side effects.
So far the main one is an ardent desire never to eat maggot cheese again
I’m glad I did it. Even gladder that I found it. I’ve wanted to eat this cheese ever since I first read about it 25 years ago. But despite multiple attempts I’ve always failed - until now
But I had a wild stroke of luck coming down from the secret Nuragic crater-town of Tiscali, when we ran into mega-shepherd Gionata Boi, at his shepherd’s hut-compound, where he was hosting a massive booze up and picnic for 20 of his friends - and he said “we have a special cake!”
But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison
I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries
Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses
The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.
If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.
I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.
As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.
I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well
He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen
Farage is gifted in a different way
Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
Andy Burnham's an interesting one. Quite the ideological chameleon imo. Clearly ambitious. He'd sound like a Northerner which might be helpful against Farage. But not seen much of a program for what he'd do differently.
I thought he was weak during the Brown Government but he has reinvented himself in Manchester. He says the right things at the right time. He leads in the event of catastrophe and his comms are very good. I still don't like him but he is far less wooden than Starmer and would be quite content to call Farage to account.
Total of 25 arrested at yesterday's march, using 300k as attendance which seems to be the accepted figure atm, that's a rate of about 0.008% or 0.83 per 10k. At Notting Hill carnival around 2,000,000 people attended over 3 days and 435 arrests were made a rate of 0.02% or 2.18 arrests per 10k.
I don't support Robinson at all, I think he's a **** of the highest order, however, attempts to characterise yesterday's march as violent is mistaken. Indeed it had less than half the incident rate as Notting Hill carnival which is celebrated by the hard left as an example of diversity etc...
*insufficient data*
Far too early to say how many, Plod doesn't use snatch squads [edit] so much now in crowd disorder but films and records. And weeks later turns up at suspects' homes etc.
Look again in maybe a month's time. You could be right, you could be ...
Yes, indeed some of the protesting training that I have been to emphasised the tactic of being carried off and taken to the nick. If enough people do this the police are so depleted that the policing becomes impossible. Not that I would do such a thing myself, of course. I was at the workshop on how to cause maximum difficulty without being arrested.
Hence the video teams at football matches and protests like yesterday, then the knock on the door midweek. At violent protests the police will only use a snatch squad on ringleaders or those who are a real threat to others.
Yes, and that's another factor. At Notting Hill the police will be relatively free to arrest suspects on the spot. Yesterday, not so much.
Andy Burnham's an interesting one. Quite the ideological chameleon imo. Clearly ambitious. He'd sound like a Northerner which might be helpful against Farage. But not seen much of a program for what he'd do differently.
I thought he was weak during the Brown Government but he has reinvented himself in Manchester. He says the right things at the right time. He leads in the event of catastrophe and his comms are very good. I still don't like him but he is far less wooden than Starmer and would be quite content to call Farage to account.
"less wooden than Starmer". I mean, talk about low bars. We are in limbo territory here.
Amorim will be replaced by the Crystal Palace manager this week. You heard it here first.
More likely Nuno, I think Glasner will be looking at German clubs and Man Utd are a clown show so he won’t want to tarnish his career.
But he does actually make 3 at the back work though. Man Utd have undergone surgery this summer, a 3 at the back system is make of their squad now. So the first person to call if the Man Utd leadership had any sense at…
Andy Burnham's an interesting one. Quite the ideological chameleon imo. Clearly ambitious. He'd sound like a Northerner which might be helpful against Farage. But not seen much of a program for what he'd do differently.
I thought he was weak during the Brown Government but he has reinvented himself in Manchester. He says the right things at the right time. He leads in the event of catastrophe and his comms are very good. I still don't like him but he is far less wooden than Starmer and would be quite content to call Farage to account.
"less wooden than Starmer". I mean, talk about low bars. We are in limbo territory here.
The bar is getting so low, even Warwick Davis is thinking he might struggle to limbo it.
I remember when the bar was lowered to he might have had a personality bypass, but he is honest and at least he appears to be vaguely competent.
In fact he is just a more boring form of liar without many signs of knowing what he is doing. He does always have a tidy desk though, as nothing ever f##king crosses it.
Amorim will be replaced by the Crystal Palace manager this week. You heard it here first.
More likely Nuno, I think Glasner will be looking at German clubs and Man Utd are a clown show so he won’t want to tarnish his career.
He does actually make 3 at the back work though.
Playing on the break. Not sure that's what Man Utd aspire to.
I remember when we were looking for Klopp's replacement the reason we went for Slot and not Amorim was the sporting director thought Amorim's style just wouldn't work in the premier league without spending a lot of money on reshaping the squad to find the players to fit his system.
Comments
The problem of course is that during the boom when the country is running a surplus, instead of paying debt down, the idiot politicians will spend it all on growing the state, assuming that their peak tax takes is normal, and then the debt will go mental during the bust. But that moron Gordon Brown did this anyway, which is one big underlying reasons why we're financially up the creek now.
Sadly a busy week for obituary writers.
I don’t think Earls Court ever had 30k capacity. Google says 20k at its peak
Euro fixtures will help, they are easy at this stage as Euro football is way off the Prem League.
https://x.com/bphillipsonMP/status/1967178136518566377
https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1967202869846987060
I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.
I don't support Robinson at all, I think he's a **** of the highest order, however, attempts to characterise yesterday's march as violent is mistaken. Indeed it had less than half the incident rate as Notting Hill carnival which is celebrated by the hard left as an example of diversity etc...
The Telegraph has been particularly effective. The unhinged anti-Starmer headline normally bears little relationship to the text of the story. Allister Heath and Allison Pearson are the King and Queen of the unhinged Starmer headline.
Those who have debased Starmer had four years to prepare too. As they don't know yet who the next Labour PM will be that character has a window of advantage that Starmer did not.
I'd like the defenestration to happen quickly.
Is it the first “jobs for the boys” appointment that has ever gone wrong in British Politics? Or just the biggest most important ever?
All sorts of excuses will be made one way, and vociferous condemnations the other.
(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)
This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.
There does seem to have been some very ugly scenes and sure it will lead to more than 25 arrests in the end. Robinson definitely has a hardcore knuckle draggers that always attend his events and after a few cans of Stellar and some lines of Columbian marching powder they get like to have a ruck with the police. Every single time.
However, given the shear numbers of people, trying to portray it as a full on riot is ridiculous. It clearly wasn't just the usual EDL crowd and wasn't pitched battles. Its a bit like calling all Brexit voters racist, racists definitely voted Brexit, but not all Brexit voters are racists. There is clearly concern there, but a bit like all those people throwing their lot in with XR, I am not sure their high priest is one that you should be following.
Also, there were similar ugly scenes at BLM marches. But again that gets airbrushed.
Starmer came into office with a vast majority and a fair amount of good will.
He then proceeded to set fire to the goodwill. And burnt bridges with a range of the left.
He has done this to himself - you should really give him credit for the achievement.
Remember when Farage quoted Andrew Tate to promote the notion that Rudicabana was an asylum seeker. And PBs very own Leon quoted some MAGA f***tard about racist or transgender shit, but with Leon, where do we start?
Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true
It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform
Have you never experienced the situation where someone’s in a mood where everything you do is wrong, and you’ve got to work out what the underlying cause is? Fawlty Towers done it well where he was pretending he had forgotten the wedding anniversary. 😃
Behind all this are signs Number Ten have sussed out that underlying cause and working on it.
Then the more bizarre idea that the wining move was to appoint a man who is famous for resigning as a result of scandals. Scandals due to his friendships with rich, dubious characters.
Mandelbrot then trod on the proffered rake, in the style of Sideshow Bob
Far too early to say how many, Plod doesn't use snatch squads [edit] so much now in crowd disorder but films and records. And weeks later turns up at suspects' homes etc.
Look again in maybe a month's time. You could be right, you could be ...
I totally agree! Why shouldn’t the Ambassador just stay as an experienced career diplomat? 🤷♀️
What was it about this viciously networking failed politician and spin doctor, whose more than proved he can’t resist either favours or financial gain, that got both number ten - and PB - purring with delight earlier this year?
This Labour Government so in awe of US politics, we are now the kind of country who appoints Shirley Temples to Ambassador posts. You may say, Shirley you’re not serious. But i’m always serious on a Sunday. It’s a day to be serious upon. 😇
There are some examples in the commentary in middle section this short video on liability for damages:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lNt7Le6dL8w
"Starmer plans on stopping work at six pm on Friday and not be returning to work until Monday morning. What will happen if war is declared at the weekend?" "Starmer is a part- time PM". And that was the week he won.
This Government had no honeymoon. Not that I am suggesting they should. They had no plan either. But they are still less crap than your lot from 2019.
https://x.com/bphillipsonMP/status/1967178136518566377
Bridget was poor growing up. A stranger paid for her coat. She's helping ordinary children with the money raised from posh schools. Community action and campaigning. Ignore the inane nodding and it is squarely aimed at Labour members who will vote for deputy leader in a fortnight or so.
Otoh, Lucy's done a website.
https://www.lucyfordeputy.co.uk/
"The BUF at peak had just under 40k members. How many members does Yaxley-Lennon's organisation have?"
"in the middle section of this "
Whilst I'm at it, the BUF had an indoor rally at Earls Court in 1939 with 30k in attendance. It was known as the "Britain First" rally.
The records quote over 30k at the rally, although pictures seem to show them seated which might challenge that, but you can't see the whole crowd and in those days many events exceeded the limits set on the attendance. The obvious example was the 'White horse cup final' where the attendance was estimated to be 300,000, although the official attendance was 126,000 because people surged in and the lower figure was ticket sales (even the ticket sales figure is way above the limit allowed in later years)
It is funny how you decrease the numbers of an event you don't want to be large and where there are plenty of quoted records and then double or treble the numbers of the generally accepted numbers for an event you want to be bigger.
Twit.
Would “best growth in G7 really wash May 3rd 2029 if voters still feel cost of living in their housekeeping?
What prevents so many changes of government, no matter how naff or David Boring PMs are, is real fear of giving economy over to another party. How can Labour generate fear of handing the economy over to the goose stepping morons if voters feel it couldn’t be worse?
The Telegraph and the Mail have always been histrionic about Labour, as has frequently pointed out, so I am not sure that they are the reasons for the public's change of opinion on Labour since the election. The same people read them as before, the same people ignore them as before.
The FT's Miranda Green made a good point recently: Labour did have a honeymoon period, but it was before they actually entered government. They were riding high pretty much from the 2022 minibudget (probably even from Partygate onwards) and nothing really changed after that until they won the election, whatever the usual suspects threw at them. Once he entered Number 10, Starmer's famed genie transformed into a monkey's paw. I think a lot of the attention has been unfair, but so it was in the other direction before the election.
Part of the reason for the focus is that they are now in government and so it matters more; partly it is that Labour (and Starmer in particular) were so prissy and sanctimonious about government scandals when they were in opposition, so, as John Rentoul points out, they are being held to the higher standards which they presumed themselves innately to embody. But I think the main reason is that they are currently not succeeding in the actual business of government, particularly with regards to economic growth. If the economy were going gangbusters now (to say nothing of housebuilding) I don't think enough people would care about the scandals for them to matter.
Farage may not receive proper scrutiny on either policies or scandals until or unless he enters government, as was the case with Starmer. If Farage does become Prime Minister, that is where his problems really begin (for all sorts of reasons).
Waitrose shoppers know immigration needs a firm hand now and the size and low level menace of the crowds yesterday has been noted across middle England. Mr Farrage looks like he might fit the bill to make this go away.....
It reminds me if Mrs Thatcher and the NF. She deftly positioned herself as the respectable vehicle for anti-immigration and acted as an electoral lighting rod, depriving the NF of support and neutraralising immigration as an issue for a generation.
If Nigel looks set to do the same to Tommy he will win in some very middle class places, as the council by elections already show him on the cusp of doing tbf.
In all seriousness, I'd much rather the far-right indulged in a bit disruptive protest than, say, raping a Sikh woman. Good on the vast majority of them for doing it peacefully; I guess we'll just have to hope Tommy and rest will defend JSO and PA's right to free assembly in return.
You are such a slow witted guy, Guy 😀
PS. Have you noticed autocorrect changes Isam to Islam? I had to quickly correct after posting and pre correct before posting this further amendment.
He'd sound like a Northerner which might be helpful against Farage. But not seen much of a program for what he'd do differently.
I hadn’t noticed that, probably because I don’t think I’ve typed the word since I made it my username
Hence the video teams at football matches and protests like yesterday, then the knock on the door midweek. At violent protests the police will only use a snatch squad on ringleaders or those who are a real threat to others.
Starmer has been very ruthless in his dismissals from Cabinet and from the Party, but none of them ever hit the nail directly on the head. His Comms team are so poor, even doing the right thing begs another question.
I’m glad I did it. Even gladder that I found it. I’ve wanted to eat this cheese ever since I first read about it 25 years ago. But despite multiple attempts I’ve always failed - until now
But I had a wild stroke of luck coming down from the secret Nuragic crater-town of Tiscali, when we ran into mega-shepherd Gionata Boi, at his shepherd’s hut-compound, where he was hosting a massive booze up and picnic for 20 of his friends - and he said “we have a special cake!”
And there it was
Incidentally, the universe is a form of cheese that arose from chaos, with the first "worms" to appear in it being the angels.
I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.
ArsenalLiverpoolYeah, I see your point now.
I remember when the bar was lowered to he might have had a personality bypass, but he is honest and at least he appears to be vaguely competent.
In fact he is just a more boring form of liar without many signs of knowing what he is doing. He does always have a tidy desk though, as nothing ever f##king crosses it.
I turned down a second helping
Bullet dodged.
West Ham as good as relegated already, whoever they bring in.