Skip to content

A damning indictment on our politicians – politicalbetting.com

245678

Comments

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,464
    edited 3:43PM

    Peter Mandelson urged Tony Blair to meet Epstein in secret memo

    Officials have stopped the 2002 note becoming public, fearing it could damage UK-US relations


    Officials blocked the release of a secret memo in which Lord Mandelson urged Sir Tony Blair to meet Jeffrey Epstein while he was prime minister.

    Mandelson, who is Britain’s ambassador to the US, is understood to have encouraged Blair to meet Epstein in a 2002 note sent to key aides, advice which was passed on to the prime minister.

    Documents were due to be made public as part of a standard National Archives release but this was blocked, The Times understands. It is thought that officials concluded the document might embarrass Britain and harm relations with the US at a time when Mandelson is seeking to build relations with President Trump.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/peter-mandelson-epstein-tony-blair-hflxzg6c6

    This is just going to keep running until Starmer gets rid.
    Nope. This is going to keep running till Starmer is gone. It’s not Peter Mandelson who appointed Peter Mandelson to be British Ambassador to the United States, it’s not Mandelsons judgement being questioned and shredded all day. Mandelson is already as good as in the Pest Controllers waste sack. Starmer’s aids and minders sent him out today blissfully unaware of the jeopardy the Prime Ministers political career is in.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,009
    @LiseMcNally

    The MP for Birkenhead confirms she's pulling out of the race to be Deputy Labour leader - will be supporting fellow front-bencher, Bridget Phillipson:
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,017
    edited 3:45PM

    Tories claim Starmer has 'put party above national security' by keeping Mandelson in post
    A Conservative party spokesperson issued this statement after PMQs.

    Keir Starmer was in complete disarray at PMQs.
    There are clearly questions he refuses to answer, because it appears he knew that Peter Mandelson had an intimate relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, and still chose to appoint him to one of our country’s most important diplomatic and economic roles.
    The prime minister has put his party, and his friend Mandelson above our national security. Only full transparency will now suffice. Starmer must immediately publish all documents related to Lord Mandelson’s appointment.
    The claim that having Mandelson remain as ambassador to the US could compromise national security echoes what Ed Davey suggested at PMQs when he asked if the White House had further “compromising material” on Mandelson that could, Davey implied, by used by Donald Trump as leverage.

    What a load of pompous bullshit!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,512

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer is lucky the BBC haven’t put the PMQs footage on the Mandelson/Epstein story.

    What is the Mandelso/Epstein story except for some prurience by a few second rate hacks. Has he done something illegal? I loathe Trump so would be delighted to have someone less sycophantic representing UK interests but that's nothing to do with Epstein. This guilt by association is pretty tabloid and unattractive,
    When you accept the hospitality of someone who has just been convicted of a serious sexual offence, well, as the saying goes:

    "Lie down with dogs, and pick up fleas."
    It's a bit Prince Andrewesque.
    The thing is, everyone knows that Andrew is very stupid, as well as being a complete shit.

    I had credited Mandleson with more intelligence.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,666
    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Controversial take: we should pay them a lot more

    Reduce the number of MPs and Lords but give them much higher salaries. So they have less inclination to sleaze and much smarter people will try for the job

    Right now we are ruled by morons as only morons fancy an underpaid career where they might get sacked any moment

    For evidence, see Keir Starmer, a moron

    Singapore approach. Paid well, but its your only job and even a hint of dodginess you are out with stronger law specifically around elected officials misconduct. None of this well i had a 3 homes, I lied about legal advice, soz, but off to the backbench plotting when to come back.
    Good luck with persuading the public on the need for politicians to be paid a lot more.
    The persuasion is that almost every ‘scandal’ that leads in the UK to a resignation, time on the backbenches, maybe a comeback later or maybe a newspaper column, TV appearances etc, instead results in serious prison time, as well as loss of salary and pension.

    A “Rayner” in Singapore would be properly cancelled for life, looking at perhaps 10 years in the Big House, her wider family would be ashamed to admit that they’re related to her. While having to pay her rent, because she can’t even get a job on the till in the local supermarket.

    There’s an argument that paying an MP £250k and the PM £500k, but on those conditions, can actually attract people interested in public service rather than the nakedly ambitious.
    Rather draconian - but you wouldn't get a Boris Johnson with that, would you, so not completely without its merits.

    I do actually see a case for fewer and better paid MPs.
    That does have its merits.

    Singapore is about the last place on earth that I would want to break the law.
    Many years ago, in Singapore on holiday, we went on a walking tour. One of our party (not me or Mrs C) dropped a sweet wrapper. The guide was horrified and told her to pick it up immediately, pointing out that if a policeman saw it, both the guide and the 'dropper' would be fined.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,402
    Didn't Bob Worcester used to post on here in the early days?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,674
    HIGNFY's best ever question, to Rory the Tory (40 seconds):-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/36qPWluhCto
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,396
    edited 3:51PM

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I went up to Scotland last week (I might have mentioned it). I hate trains but I like the idea of a posh train to somewhere nice. That leaves me the Night Riviera sleeper train to Penzance, the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness, or the Eurostar to Lille. Not big places, smallish nice towns with nice places where I can sit down and read books, reasonably luxurious and historic with nice buildings. Anybody been to Penzance, Inverness or Lille?

    I’ve been to all of them. They’re all great in different ways, and with flaws

    Penzance: real end of the line feeling. You are definitely at a terminus and it’s at the very end of Cornwall. The station is by the sea. You exit to ozone and gulls and fish and chips and saltiness. And you are surrounded by Wild West Cornwall

    But Penzance is a bit run down. Druggies and shuttered shops

    Inverness is quite a handsome town. Granite everywhere. It’s not as dramatic as Penzance but you’re definitely on the door of the highlands and the wilds. The train over to Kyle is spectacular

    Can also be rundown. And cold

    Lille is probably the most architecturally appealing in itself. Nice French Flemish feel. But much more boring in location and nothing to see - unless you like world war 1 battlefields, in which case it’s fab
    I'd agree with all that - but for the Penzance option: why not add on a short branch line hop (changing at St. Erth?) and finish at St. Ives?

    On Lille - my daughter went on a school trip to Lille last winter to visit the Christmas markets - less famous than the German counterparts but just as worthwhile. Perhaps you could do that?

    All that said, if it were me I'd definitely go for Inverness. Regardless of the city at the end, that's the best train ride.
    Inverness - maybe walk over to the Caledonian canal lock staircase and along the canal end to the sea lock. Maybe even a cruise along the canal into Loch Ness (which is some way away, but not too much). Good base also for side trips to eg Elgin, Strathpeffer, Cromarty.
    I think they do cruises from Dochgarroch from memory?
    If not jump on the bus to either Drumnadrochit and do the Nessie tourust stuff and a cruise or down to Fort Augustus where they do some nice hourly cruises
    If going to Fort William by sleeper, Linnhe Cruises do a great cruise on Loch Linnhe, you get up close and personal with seals and its very informative
    Yes, Dochgarroch is the bit of [edit] south west Inverness where there is a lock. The canal runs roughly north-south

    Edit: memory failed me - Muirtown a little to the north is where the lock staircase is (which is separate from and a little way from the sea lock to the north): ISTR another firm operates from there. Mrs C and I usually stay in a bijou B&B almost next to the canal there But not recently been so can't give a current recommendation. It's a fair walk from the town centre with luggage though.

    Nice river park walks too in the centre and south of Inverness.

    Edit: can't opine on cruises as we got a taxi to Loch Ness and met our friends circumnavigating Britain in their yacht and had a private cruise along the canal and helped lock down in the staircase.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,656
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer is lucky the BBC haven’t put the PMQs footage on the Mandelson/Epstein story.

    What is the Mandelso/Epstein story except for some prurience by a few second rate hacks. Has he done something illegal? I loathe Trump so would be delighted to have someone less sycophantic representing UK interests but that's nothing to do with Epstein. This guilt by association is pretty tabloid and unattractive,
    When you accept the hospitality of someone who has just been convicted of a serious sexual offence, well, as the saying goes:

    "Lie down with dogs, and pick up fleas."
    It's a bit Prince Andrewesque.
    The thing is, everyone knows that Andrew is very stupid, as well as being a complete shit.

    I had credited Mandleson with more intelligence.
    I remember hearing from somebody close to royal circles who observed that it wouldn't surprise him that one day news broke that Prince Andrew's own bodyguards had shot and killed him.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,464
    Roger said:

    Tories claim Starmer has 'put party above national security' by keeping Mandelson in post
    A Conservative party spokesperson issued this statement after PMQs.

    Keir Starmer was in complete disarray at PMQs.
    There are clearly questions he refuses to answer, because it appears he knew that Peter Mandelson had an intimate relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, and still chose to appoint him to one of our country’s most important diplomatic and economic roles.
    The prime minister has put his party, and his friend Mandelson above our national security. Only full transparency will now suffice. Starmer must immediately publish all documents related to Lord Mandelson’s appointment.
    The claim that having Mandelson remain as ambassador to the US could compromise national security echoes what Ed Davey suggested at PMQs when he asked if the White House had further “compromising material” on Mandelson that could, Davey implied, by used by Donald Trump as leverage.

    What a load of pompous bullshit!
    No. It’s actually true.

    You want people in a National Security position who can be so easily influenced and blackmailed in decision making.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,017

    Omnium said:

    I thought the thread would just have a snap of Mandelson given the title. And first!

    Full disclosure, I once went to an event hosted by Lord Mandelson.

    To my eternal shame I never asked him if there were any mushy peas available.
    Me too . A book signing with a talk. He was OK
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,914

    Roger said:

    Tories claim Starmer has 'put party above national security' by keeping Mandelson in post
    A Conservative party spokesperson issued this statement after PMQs.

    Keir Starmer was in complete disarray at PMQs.
    There are clearly questions he refuses to answer, because it appears he knew that Peter Mandelson had an intimate relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, and still chose to appoint him to one of our country’s most important diplomatic and economic roles.
    The prime minister has put his party, and his friend Mandelson above our national security. Only full transparency will now suffice. Starmer must immediately publish all documents related to Lord Mandelson’s appointment.
    The claim that having Mandelson remain as ambassador to the US could compromise national security echoes what Ed Davey suggested at PMQs when he asked if the White House had further “compromising material” on Mandelson that could, Davey implied, by used by Donald Trump as leverage.

    What a load of pompous bullshit!
    No. It’s actually true.

    You want people in a National Security position who can be so easily influenced and blackmailed in decision making.
    "You want people in a National Security position who can be so easily influenced "

    I presume there's a missing "don't"?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,656

    Roger said:

    Tories claim Starmer has 'put party above national security' by keeping Mandelson in post
    A Conservative party spokesperson issued this statement after PMQs.

    Keir Starmer was in complete disarray at PMQs.
    There are clearly questions he refuses to answer, because it appears he knew that Peter Mandelson had an intimate relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, and still chose to appoint him to one of our country’s most important diplomatic and economic roles.
    The prime minister has put his party, and his friend Mandelson above our national security. Only full transparency will now suffice. Starmer must immediately publish all documents related to Lord Mandelson’s appointment.
    The claim that having Mandelson remain as ambassador to the US could compromise national security echoes what Ed Davey suggested at PMQs when he asked if the White House had further “compromising material” on Mandelson that could, Davey implied, by used by Donald Trump as leverage.

    What a load of pompous bullshit!
    No. It’s actually true.

    You want people in a National Security position who can be so easily influenced and blackmailed in decision making.
    You were fine with Boris Johnson in those positions.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,010

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer is lucky the BBC haven’t put the PMQs footage on the Mandelson/Epstein story.

    What is the Mandelso/Epstein story except for some prurience by a few second rate hacks. Has he done something illegal? I loathe Trump so would be delighted to have someone less sycophantic representing UK interests but that's nothing to do with Epstein. This guilt by association is pretty tabloid and unattractive,
    When you accept the hospitality of someone who has just been convicted of a serious sexual offence, well, as the saying goes:

    "Lie down with dogs, and pick up fleas."
    It's a bit Prince Andrewesque.
    The thing is, everyone knows that Andrew is very stupid, as well as being a complete shit.

    I had credited Mandleson with more intelligence.
    I remember hearing from somebody close to royal circles who observed that it wouldn't surprise him that one day news broke that Prince Andrew's own bodyguards had shot and killed him.
    There was a review recently of a book about Prince Andrew which concluded he posessed almost every negative characteristic it is possible to have. He came across as not just by far the worst person in the royal family, but in Britain; possibly the world.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,017
    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer is lucky the BBC haven’t put the PMQs footage on the Mandelson/Epstein story.

    What is the Mandelso/Epstein story except for some prurience by a few second rate hacks. Has he done something illegal? I loathe Trump so would be delighted to have someone less sycophantic representing UK interests but that's nothing to do with Epstein. This guilt by association is pretty tabloid and unattractive,
    When you accept the hospitality of someone who has just been convicted of a serious sexual offence, well, as the saying goes:

    "Lie down with dogs, and pick up fleas."
    It depends whether it was before or after.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,009
    Looks better now...

    @alexharmstrong

    Banksy has been censored by the establishment.

    How they fail to see the irony in this is beyond parody.


  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,947
    'I have confidence in him, proper procedures'
    Whoops
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,603
    What was it about sleepwalking into a conflagration?
    Almost nobody is talking about Poland.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,123
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks better now...

    @alexharmstrong

    Banksy has been censored by the establishment.

    How they fail to see the irony in this is beyond parody.


    If they'd carefully chiselled it off the wall, they could have got north of £5 million for it. That would have helped the underfunded courts service.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,674
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks better now...

    @alexharmstrong

    Banksy has been censored by the establishment.

    How they fail to see the irony in this is beyond parody.


    It makes you wonder about that camera.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,010
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks better now...

    @alexharmstrong

    Banksy has been censored by the establishment.

    How they fail to see the irony in this is beyond parody.


    If he gets his own canvas he can do what he wants. Other than that he shoukd be prosecuted for criminal damage like any other vandal.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,017
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks better now...

    @alexharmstrong

    Banksy has been censored by the establishment.

    How they fail to see the irony in this is beyond parody.


    £1,000,000 worth of vandalism
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,656
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks better now...

    @alexharmstrong

    Banksy has been censored by the establishment.

    How they fail to see the irony in this is beyond parody.


    It's not censorship, it's the inappropriate use of a gavel.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,947
    dixiedean said:

    What was it about sleepwalking into a conflagration?
    Almost nobody is talking about Poland.

    We are getting the downfall of Mandy and Keir in first as a quicky before armageddon
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,651
    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer is lucky the BBC haven’t put the PMQs footage on the Mandelson/Epstein story.

    What is the Mandelso/Epstein story except for some prurience by a few second rate hacks. Has he done something illegal? I loathe Trump so would be delighted to have someone less sycophantic representing UK interests but that's nothing to do with Epstein. This guilt by association is pretty tabloid and unattractive,
    When you accept the hospitality of someone who has just been convicted of a serious sexual offence, well, as the saying goes:

    "Lie down with dogs, and pick up fleas."
    It's a bit Prince Andrewesque.
    The thing is, everyone knows that Andrew is very stupid, as well as being a complete shit.

    I had credited Mandleson with more intelligence.
    I remember hearing from somebody close to royal circles who observed that it wouldn't surprise him that one day news broke that Prince Andrew's own bodyguards had shot and killed him.
    There was a review recently of a book about Prince Andrew which concluded he posessed almost every negative characteristic it is possible to have. He came across as not just by far the worst person in the royal family, but in Britain; possibly the world.
    Given that King Dipendra of Nepal machine-gunned his own family then that's quite an impressive level of shit-baggery.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,857
    Guido Fawkes
    @GuidoFawkes
    ·
    18m
    LABOUR: Minister Alison McGovern pulls out of race for the deputy leadership.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,316
    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer is lucky the BBC haven’t put the PMQs footage on the Mandelson/Epstein story.

    What is the Mandelso/Epstein story except for some prurience by a few second rate hacks. Has he done something illegal? I loathe Trump so would be delighted to have someone less sycophantic representing UK interests but that's nothing to do with Epstein. This guilt by association is pretty tabloid and unattractive,
    When you accept the hospitality of someone who has just been convicted of a serious sexual offence, well, as the saying goes:

    "Lie down with dogs, and pick up fleas."
    It's a bit Prince Andrewesque.
    The thing is, everyone knows that Andrew is very stupid, as well as being a complete shit.

    I had credited Mandleson with more intelligence.
    I remember hearing from somebody close to royal circles who observed that it wouldn't surprise him that one day news broke that Prince Andrew's own bodyguards had shot and killed him.
    There was a review recently of a book about Prince Andrew which concluded he posessed almost every negative characteristic it is possible to have. He came across as not just by far the worst person in the royal family, but in Britain; possibly the world.
    A 'warts and warts on the warts' portrayal. He must have some good points. Can he hold a tune?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,656
    I tell you who should succeed Mandy as our man in Washington.

    Lord Cameron, there's precedent for a peer and former Foreign Secretary to be our man in Washington.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,857
    Phillipson : 1.62
    Powell : 2.64
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,947
    Proper procedures, full confidence latest

    NEW: Mandelson email to Epstein in June 2008:

    “I think the world of you and I feel hopeless and furious about what has happened.

    "I can still barely understand it. It just could not happen in Britain. You have to be incredibly resilient, fight for early release and be philosophical about it as much as you can... everything can be turned into an opportunity and that you will come through it and be stronger for it.

    "The whole thing has been years of torture and now you have to show the world how big a person you are, and how strong.

    "Your friends stay with you and love you.”

    Subcribe for more later on: youtube.com/@harrycolesave…
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,316

    Phillipson : 1.62
    Powell : 2.64

    So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,914

    I tell you who should succeed Mandy as our man in Washington.

    Lord Cameron, there's precedent for a peer and former Foreign Secretary to be our man in Washington.

    Liz Truss all the way. Diplomatic credit where diplomatic credit is deserved.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,006

    Proper procedures, full confidence latest

    NEW: Mandelson email to Epstein in June 2008:

    “I think the world of you and I feel hopeless and furious about what has happened.

    "I can still barely understand it. It just could not happen in Britain. You have to be incredibly resilient, fight for early release and be philosophical about it as much as you can... everything can be turned into an opportunity and that you will come through it and be stronger for it.

    "The whole thing has been years of torture and now you have to show the world how big a person you are, and how strong.

    "Your friends stay with you and love you.”

    Subcribe for more later on: youtube.com/@harrycolesave…

    Oooooooopsy.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,009
    @fleetstreetfox

    *Mrs Merton voice*

    What could have convinced the unprepossessing Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer to make friend-of-a-paedophile Peter Mandelson his go-between with the friend-of-a-paedophile Donald Trump?

    https://x.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1965808556269318202
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,674

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks better now...

    @alexharmstrong

    Banksy has been censored by the establishment.

    How they fail to see the irony in this is beyond parody.


    It's not censorship, it's the inappropriate use of a gavel.
    It is also a badly drawn gavel with an apparently bent handle.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,316

    Proper procedures, full confidence latest

    NEW: Mandelson email to Epstein in June 2008:

    “I think the world of you and I feel hopeless and furious about what has happened.

    "I can still barely understand it. It just could not happen in Britain. You have to be incredibly resilient, fight for early release and be philosophical about it as much as you can... everything can be turned into an opportunity and that you will come through it and be stronger for it.

    "The whole thing has been years of torture and now you have to show the world how big a person you are, and how strong.

    "Your friends stay with you and love you.”

    Subcribe for more later on: youtube.com/@harrycolesave…

    That sounds like he genuinely really liked him.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,666
    edited 4:09PM

    Proper procedures, full confidence latest

    NEW: Mandelson email to Epstein in June 2008:

    “I think the world of you and I feel hopeless and furious about what has happened.

    "I can still barely understand it. It just could not happen in Britain. You have to be incredibly resilient, fight for early release and be philosophical about it as much as you can... everything can be turned into an opportunity and that you will come through it and be stronger for it.

    "The whole thing has been years of torture and now you have to show the world how big a person you are, and how strong.

    "Your friends stay with you and love you.”

    Subcribe for more later on: youtube.com/@harrycolesave…

    If Mandelson wasn't Jewish I'd admire him for his Christian charity. I'd be very careful about being seen anywhere near him, though.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,674
    kinabalu said:

    Phillipson : 1.62
    Powell : 2.64

    So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
    I'd have backed Healey (John Healey, the Defence Secretary) if he were a woman.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,009
    @ProjectLincoln

    THREAD: Donald Trump is threatening to sue the Lincoln Project again – this time because we’re telling the world about Trump’s close and personal relationship with the pedophile and convicted sex-trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. Trump is panicking because he sees the MAGA base turning against him.

    The Lincoln Project’s TLDR response to the President of the United States: Go fuck yourself; We look forward to discovery and taking your deposition, as well as that of Attorney General Pam Bondi, FBI Director Kash Patel, FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino, and the 1000 FBI agents they used to review the Epstein materials.

    https://x.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1965782836465803517
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,254
    viewcode said:

    I went up to Scotland last week (I might have mentioned it). I hate trains but I like the idea of a posh train to somewhere nice. That leaves me the Night Riviera sleeper train to Penzance, the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness, or the Eurostar to Lille. Not big places, smallish nice towns with nice places where I can sit down and read books, reasonably luxurious and historic with nice buildings. Anybody been to Penzance, Inverness or Lille?

    Most modern trains are focused on efficiency rather than charm and style. Honourable exceptions are the Bernini and Glacier expresses in Switzerland and some day services such as the Emona from Ljubljana to Vienna I’m shortly about to use on this trip:



    Other celebrated routes are Belgrade to Bar in the Balkans, and the second half of the sleeper service journey to Sicily
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,846
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I went up to Scotland last week (I might have mentioned it). I hate trains but I like the idea of a posh train to somewhere nice. That leaves me the Night Riviera sleeper train to Penzance, the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness, or the Eurostar to Lille. Not big places, smallish nice towns with nice places where I can sit down and read books, reasonably luxurious and historic with nice buildings. Anybody been to Penzance, Inverness or Lille?

    I’ve been to all of them. They’re all great in different ways, and with flaws

    Penzance: real end of the line feeling. You are definitely at a terminus and it’s at the very end of Cornwall. The station is by the sea. You exit to ozone and gulls and fish and chips and saltiness. And you are surrounded by Wild West Cornwall

    But Penzance is a bit run down. Druggies and shuttered shops

    Inverness is quite a handsome town. Granite everywhere. It’s not as dramatic as Penzance but you’re definitely on the door of the highlands and the wilds. The train over to Kyle is spectacular

    Can also be rundown. And cold

    Lille is probably the most architecturally appealing in itself. Nice French Flemish feel. But much more boring in location and nothing to see - unless you like world war 1 battlefields, in which case it’s fab
    I'd agree with all that - but for the Penzance option: why not add on a short branch line hop (changing at St. Erth?) and finish at St. Ives?

    On Lille - my daughter went on a school trip to Lille last winter to visit the Christmas markets - less famous than the German counterparts but just as worthwhile. Perhaps you could do that?

    All that said, if it were me I'd definitely go for Inverness. Regardless of the city at the end, that's the best train ride.
    Inverness - maybe walk over to the Caledonian canal lock staircase and along the canal end to the sea lock. Maybe even a cruise along the canal into Loch Ness (which is some way away, but not too much). Good base also for side trips to eg Elgin, Strathpeffer, Cromarty.
    I think they do cruises from Dochgarroch from memory?
    If not jump on the bus to either Drumnadrochit and do the Nessie tourust stuff and a cruise or down to Fort Augustus where they do some nice hourly cruises
    If going to Fort William by sleeper, Linnhe Cruises do a great cruise on Loch Linnhe, you get up close and personal with seals and its very informative
    Yes, Dochgarroch is the bit of [edit] south west Inverness where there is a lock. The canal runs roughly north-south

    Edit: memory failed me - Muirtown a little to the north is where the lock staircase is (which is separate from and a little way from the sea lock to the north): ISTR another firm operates from there. Mrs C and I usually stay in a bijou B&B almost next to the canal there But not recently been so can't give a current recommendation. It's a fair walk from the town centre with luggage though.

    Nice river park walks too in the centre and south of Inverness.

    Edit: can't opine on cruises as we got a taxi to Loch Ness and met our friends circumnavigating Britain in their yacht and had a private cruise along the canal and helped lock down in the staircase.
    Dochgarroch is where you get the ferry boat down to Loch Ness, it’s about four miles south of the city at the last of the canal locks. The boat ride takes two hours and costs £30, it goes half way down Loch Ness to the ruined castle and back again. The boat company is www.jacobite.co.uk

    The most impressive locks on the canal are those known as Neptune’s Staircase, just North of Fort William. Easy to miss if you’re on the A82, we may have had to loop back.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,316

    kinabalu said:

    Phillipson : 1.62
    Powell : 2.64

    So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
    I'd have backed Healey (John Healey, the Defence Secretary) if he were a woman.
    Are you a member then?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,800
    edited 4:10PM
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks better now...

    @alexharmstrong

    Banksy has been censored by the establishment.

    How they fail to see the irony in this is beyond parody.


    Morons.

    Your never going to get that stone clean - cut it out, sell it at auction to the kind of billionaire Banksy really, really hates. Replace the stone.

    Troll your opponent and make millions for the country doing it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,009
    Starmer needs to cut many loose before he gets dragged down too

    @DPJHodges

    At PMQs Ed Davey asked if Mandelson’s appointment compromised relations with the US. Starmer rejected that. But the Times has reported the Cabinet Office suppressed release of a memo about Mandelson’s relationship specifically because it would compromise relations with the US.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,066
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer is lucky the BBC haven’t put the PMQs footage on the Mandelson/Epstein story.

    What is the Mandelso/Epstein story except for some prurience by a few second rate hacks. Has he done something illegal? I loathe Trump so would be delighted to have someone less sycophantic representing UK interests but that's nothing to do with Epstein. This guilt by association is pretty tabloid and unattractive,
    When you accept the hospitality of someone who has just been convicted of a serious sexual offence, well, as the saying goes:

    "Lie down with dogs, and pick up fleas."
    It's a bit Prince Andrewesque.
    The thing is, everyone knows that Andrew is very stupid, as well as being a complete shit.

    I had credited Mandleson with more intelligence.
    I remember hearing from somebody close to royal circles who observed that it wouldn't surprise him that one day news broke that Prince Andrew's own bodyguards had shot and killed him.
    There was a review recently of a book about Prince Andrew which concluded he posessed almost every negative characteristic it is possible to have. He came across as not just by far the worst person in the royal family, but in Britain; possibly the world.
    A 'warts and warts on the warts' portrayal. He must have some good points. Can he hold a tune?
    I vaguely remeber Dura Ace saying the grand old duke once had a not completely terrible car, but that's about it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,857

    She led me she fed me
    She read me like a book
    But I'm hiding in the small print
    Won't you take another look?
    And take me away
    Try me Mandy fly me away

    10CC
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,651
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks better now...

    @alexharmstrong

    Banksy has been censored by the establishment.

    How they fail to see the irony in this is beyond parody.


    It's a bit last-moments-as-they-were-nuked.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,947
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I went up to Scotland last week (I might have mentioned it). I hate trains but I like the idea of a posh train to somewhere nice. That leaves me the Night Riviera sleeper train to Penzance, the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness, or the Eurostar to Lille. Not big places, smallish nice towns with nice places where I can sit down and read books, reasonably luxurious and historic with nice buildings. Anybody been to Penzance, Inverness or Lille?

    I’ve been to all of them. They’re all great in different ways, and with flaws

    Penzance: real end of the line feeling. You are definitely at a terminus and it’s at the very end of Cornwall. The station is by the sea. You exit to ozone and gulls and fish and chips and saltiness. And you are surrounded by Wild West Cornwall

    But Penzance is a bit run down. Druggies and shuttered shops

    Inverness is quite a handsome town. Granite everywhere. It’s not as dramatic as Penzance but you’re definitely on the door of the highlands and the wilds. The train over to Kyle is spectacular

    Can also be rundown. And cold

    Lille is probably the most architecturally appealing in itself. Nice French Flemish feel. But much more boring in location and nothing to see - unless you like world war 1 battlefields, in which case it’s fab
    I'd agree with all that - but for the Penzance option: why not add on a short branch line hop (changing at St. Erth?) and finish at St. Ives?

    On Lille - my daughter went on a school trip to Lille last winter to visit the Christmas markets - less famous than the German counterparts but just as worthwhile. Perhaps you could do that?

    All that said, if it were me I'd definitely go for Inverness. Regardless of the city at the end, that's the best train ride.
    Inverness - maybe walk over to the Caledonian canal lock staircase and along the canal end to the sea lock. Maybe even a cruise along the canal into Loch Ness (which is some way away, but not too much). Good base also for side trips to eg Elgin, Strathpeffer, Cromarty.
    I think they do cruises from Dochgarroch from memory?
    If not jump on the bus to either Drumnadrochit and do the Nessie tourust stuff and a cruise or down to Fort Augustus where they do some nice hourly cruises
    If going to Fort William by sleeper, Linnhe Cruises do a great cruise on Loch Linnhe, you get up close and personal with seals and its very informative
    Yes, Dochgarroch is the bit of [edit] south west Inverness where there is a lock. The canal runs roughly north-south

    Edit: memory failed me - Muirtown a little to the north is where the lock staircase is (which is separate from and a little way from the sea lock to the north): ISTR another firm operates from there. Mrs C and I usually stay in a bijou B&B almost next to the canal there But not recently been so can't give a current recommendation. It's a fair walk from the town centre with luggage though.

    Nice river park walks too in the centre and south of Inverness.

    Edit: can't opine on cruises as we got a taxi to Loch Ness and met our friends circumnavigating Britain in their yacht and had a private cruise along the canal and helped lock down in the staircase.
    Dochgarroch is where you get the ferry boat down to Loch Ness, it’s about four miles south of the city at the last of the canal locks. The boat ride takes two hours and costs £30, it goes half way down Loch Ness to the ruined castle and back again. The boat company is www.jacobite.co.uk

    The most impressive locks on the canal are those known as Neptune’s Staircase, just North of Fort William. Easy to miss if you’re on the A82, we may have had to loop back.
    If you go to Neptune's staircase carry on to Glenfinnan about 12 mikes further along the road
    Urquhart castle is also worth the visit.
    If in a car the circuit around Loch Ness coming back to Inverness via Foyers is a very good day out with plenty to stop and see/do
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,348

    Proper procedures, full confidence latest

    NEW: Mandelson email to Epstein in June 2008:

    “I think the world of you and I feel hopeless and furious about what has happened.

    "I can still barely understand it. It just could not happen in Britain. You have to be incredibly resilient, fight for early release and be philosophical about it as much as you can... everything can be turned into an opportunity and that you will come through it and be stronger for it.

    "The whole thing has been years of torture and now you have to show the world how big a person you are, and how strong.

    "Your friends stay with you and love you.”

    Subcribe for more later on: youtube.com/@harrycolesave…

    Hmm. In some ways this gets Mandelson off the hook. He's clearly besotted with the man and believes him to be the innocent victim of some sort of witch hunt. Now, you can call that naïve and his loyalty appallingly misplaced, but that's better than the charge of knowingly hanging out with a sex fiend and partaking in his perversions. Mandy might just get away with this.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,056
    kinabalu said:

    Phillipson : 1.62
    Powell : 2.64

    So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
    Politically, I think there's very little between Powell and Phillipson - both soft left. But Powell, though I like her, has even less charisma than me. So it's Bridget, for cheering up the troops and selling the message.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,820
    By their friends shall you know them...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,017

    Roger said:

    Tories claim Starmer has 'put party above national security' by keeping Mandelson in post
    A Conservative party spokesperson issued this statement after PMQs.

    Keir Starmer was in complete disarray at PMQs.
    There are clearly questions he refuses to answer, because it appears he knew that Peter Mandelson had an intimate relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, and still chose to appoint him to one of our country’s most important diplomatic and economic roles.
    The prime minister has put his party, and his friend Mandelson above our national security. Only full transparency will now suffice. Starmer must immediately publish all documents related to Lord Mandelson’s appointment.
    The claim that having Mandelson remain as ambassador to the US could compromise national security echoes what Ed Davey suggested at PMQs when he asked if the White House had further “compromising material” on Mandelson that could, Davey implied, by used by Donald Trump as leverage.

    What a load of pompous bullshit!
    No. It’s actually true.

    You want people in a National Security position who can be so easily influenced and blackmailed in decision making.
    Do you actually believe what you've written or was it supposed to be a pastiche of a leader of the opposition during PMQs?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,674
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Phillipson : 1.62
    Powell : 2.64

    So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
    I'd have backed Healey (John Healey, the Defence Secretary) if he were a woman.
    Are you a member then?
    No. Backed in the b rather than p sense of pb. I'd have bet on Healey to win.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,800
    kinabalu said:

    Proper procedures, full confidence latest

    NEW: Mandelson email to Epstein in June 2008:

    “I think the world of you and I feel hopeless and furious about what has happened.

    "I can still barely understand it. It just could not happen in Britain. You have to be incredibly resilient, fight for early release and be philosophical about it as much as you can... everything can be turned into an opportunity and that you will come through it and be stronger for it.

    "The whole thing has been years of torture and now you have to show the world how big a person you are, and how strong.

    "Your friends stay with you and love you.”

    Subcribe for more later on: youtube.com/@harrycolesave…

    That sounds like he genuinely really liked him.
    It sounds like a certain PB poster in terms of claiming the abuser is the victim.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,651

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I went up to Scotland last week (I might have mentioned it). I hate trains but I like the idea of a posh train to somewhere nice. That leaves me the Night Riviera sleeper train to Penzance, the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness, or the Eurostar to Lille. Not big places, smallish nice towns with nice places where I can sit down and read books, reasonably luxurious and historic with nice buildings. Anybody been to Penzance, Inverness or Lille?

    I’ve been to all of them. They’re all great in different ways, and with flaws

    Penzance: real end of the line feeling. You are definitely at a terminus and it’s at the very end of Cornwall. The station is by the sea. You exit to ozone and gulls and fish and chips and saltiness. And you are surrounded by Wild West Cornwall

    But Penzance is a bit run down. Druggies and shuttered shops

    Inverness is quite a handsome town. Granite everywhere. It’s not as dramatic as Penzance but you’re definitely on the door of the highlands and the wilds. The train over to Kyle is spectacular

    Can also be rundown. And cold

    Lille is probably the most architecturally appealing in itself. Nice French Flemish feel. But much more boring in location and nothing to see - unless you like world war 1 battlefields, in which case it’s fab
    I'd agree with all that - but for the Penzance option: why not add on a short branch line hop (changing at St. Erth?) and finish at St. Ives?

    On Lille - my daughter went on a school trip to Lille last winter to visit the Christmas markets - less famous than the German counterparts but just as worthwhile. Perhaps you could do that?

    All that said, if it were me I'd definitely go for Inverness. Regardless of the city at the end, that's the best train ride.
    Inverness - maybe walk over to the Caledonian canal lock staircase and along the canal end to the sea lock. Maybe even a cruise along the canal into Loch Ness (which is some way away, but not too much). Good base also for side trips to eg Elgin, Strathpeffer, Cromarty.
    I think they do cruises from Dochgarroch from memory?
    If not jump on the bus to either Drumnadrochit and do the Nessie tourust stuff and a cruise or down to Fort Augustus where they do some nice hourly cruises
    If going to Fort William by sleeper, Linnhe Cruises do a great cruise on Loch Linnhe, you get up close and personal with seals and its very informative
    Yes, Dochgarroch is the bit of [edit] south west Inverness where there is a lock. The canal runs roughly north-south

    Edit: memory failed me - Muirtown a little to the north is where the lock staircase is (which is separate from and a little way from the sea lock to the north): ISTR another firm operates from there. Mrs C and I usually stay in a bijou B&B almost next to the canal there But not recently been so can't give a current recommendation. It's a fair walk from the town centre with luggage though.

    Nice river park walks too in the centre and south of Inverness.

    Edit: can't opine on cruises as we got a taxi to Loch Ness and met our friends circumnavigating Britain in their yacht and had a private cruise along the canal and helped lock down in the staircase.
    Dochgarroch is where you get the ferry boat down to Loch Ness, it’s about four miles south of the city at the last of the canal locks. The boat ride takes two hours and costs £30, it goes half way down Loch Ness to the ruined castle and back again. The boat company is www.jacobite.co.uk

    The most impressive locks on the canal are those known as Neptune’s Staircase, just North of Fort William. Easy to miss if you’re on the A82, we may have had to loop back.
    If you go to Neptune's staircase carry on to Glenfinnan about 12 mikes further along the road
    Urquhart castle is also worth the visit.
    If in a car the circuit around Loch Ness coming back to Inverness via Foyers is a very good day out with plenty to stop and see/do
    Foyers has a lovely waterfall.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,464

    I tell you who should succeed Mandy as our man in Washington.

    Lord Cameron, there's precedent for a peer and former Foreign Secretary to be our man in Washington.

    No. There is only one perfect candidate.

    Send PBs Malcolm.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,947

    Proper procedures, full confidence latest

    NEW: Mandelson email to Epstein in June 2008:

    “I think the world of you and I feel hopeless and furious about what has happened.

    "I can still barely understand it. It just could not happen in Britain. You have to be incredibly resilient, fight for early release and be philosophical about it as much as you can... everything can be turned into an opportunity and that you will come through it and be stronger for it.

    "The whole thing has been years of torture and now you have to show the world how big a person you are, and how strong.

    "Your friends stay with you and love you.”

    Subcribe for more later on: youtube.com/@harrycolesave…

    Hmm. In some ways this gets Mandelson off the hook. He's clearly besotted with the man and believes him to be the innocent victim of some sort of witch hunt. Now, you can call that naïve and his loyalty appallingly misplaced, but that's better than the charge of knowingly hanging out with a sex fiend and partaking in his perversions. Mandy might just get away with this.
    He's 'furious' a nonce he loves got locked up. Its appalling.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,674
    Rory the other one makes a damning indictment of our politicians (30 seconds video) re housing prices
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5eb6DPKaNzk
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,242

    I tell you who should succeed Mandy as our man in Washington.

    Lord Cameron, there's precedent for a peer and former Foreign Secretary to be our man in Washington.

    Is Paul Gadd not available?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,947
    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I went up to Scotland last week (I might have mentioned it). I hate trains but I like the idea of a posh train to somewhere nice. That leaves me the Night Riviera sleeper train to Penzance, the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness, or the Eurostar to Lille. Not big places, smallish nice towns with nice places where I can sit down and read books, reasonably luxurious and historic with nice buildings. Anybody been to Penzance, Inverness or Lille?

    I’ve been to all of them. They’re all great in different ways, and with flaws

    Penzance: real end of the line feeling. You are definitely at a terminus and it’s at the very end of Cornwall. The station is by the sea. You exit to ozone and gulls and fish and chips and saltiness. And you are surrounded by Wild West Cornwall

    But Penzance is a bit run down. Druggies and shuttered shops

    Inverness is quite a handsome town. Granite everywhere. It’s not as dramatic as Penzance but you’re definitely on the door of the highlands and the wilds. The train over to Kyle is spectacular

    Can also be rundown. And cold

    Lille is probably the most architecturally appealing in itself. Nice French Flemish feel. But much more boring in location and nothing to see - unless you like world war 1 battlefields, in which case it’s fab
    I'd agree with all that - but for the Penzance option: why not add on a short branch line hop (changing at St. Erth?) and finish at St. Ives?

    On Lille - my daughter went on a school trip to Lille last winter to visit the Christmas markets - less famous than the German counterparts but just as worthwhile. Perhaps you could do that?

    All that said, if it were me I'd definitely go for Inverness. Regardless of the city at the end, that's the best train ride.
    Inverness - maybe walk over to the Caledonian canal lock staircase and along the canal end to the sea lock. Maybe even a cruise along the canal into Loch Ness (which is some way away, but not too much). Good base also for side trips to eg Elgin, Strathpeffer, Cromarty.
    I think they do cruises from Dochgarroch from memory?
    If not jump on the bus to either Drumnadrochit and do the Nessie tourust stuff and a cruise or down to Fort Augustus where they do some nice hourly cruises
    If going to Fort William by sleeper, Linnhe Cruises do a great cruise on Loch Linnhe, you get up close and personal with seals and its very informative
    Yes, Dochgarroch is the bit of [edit] south west Inverness where there is a lock. The canal runs roughly north-south

    Edit: memory failed me - Muirtown a little to the north is where the lock staircase is (which is separate from and a little way from the sea lock to the north): ISTR another firm operates from there. Mrs C and I usually stay in a bijou B&B almost next to the canal there But not recently been so can't give a current recommendation. It's a fair walk from the town centre with luggage though.

    Nice river park walks too in the centre and south of Inverness.

    Edit: can't opine on cruises as we got a taxi to Loch Ness and met our friends circumnavigating Britain in their yacht and had a private cruise along the canal and helped lock down in the staircase.
    Dochgarroch is where you get the ferry boat down to Loch Ness, it’s about four miles south of the city at the last of the canal locks. The boat ride takes two hours and costs £30, it goes half way down Loch Ness to the ruined castle and back again. The boat company is www.jacobite.co.uk

    The most impressive locks on the canal are those known as Neptune’s Staircase, just North of Fort William. Easy to miss if you’re on the A82, we may have had to loop back.
    If you go to Neptune's staircase carry on to Glenfinnan about 12 mikes further along the road
    Urquhart castle is also worth the visit.
    If in a car the circuit around Loch Ness coming back to Inverness via Foyers is a very good day out with plenty to stop and see/do
    Foyers has a lovely waterfall.
    Nice cafe/restaurant at the top of the falls last time I was there too (that was 2014 tbf)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,464

    kinabalu said:

    Phillipson : 1.62
    Powell : 2.64

    So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
    I'd have backed Healey (John Healey, the Defence Secretary) if he were a woman.
    That’s just a weird post. Up your game.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,038
    kinabalu said:

    Phillipson : 1.62
    Powell : 2.64

    So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
    Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,402
    edited 4:19PM
    Thank goodness the French racecourses aren't on strike today. 🙂
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,800

    I tell you who should succeed Mandy as our man in Washington.

    Lord Cameron, there's precedent for a peer and former Foreign Secretary to be our man in Washington.

    No. There is only one perfect candidate.

    Send PBs Malcolm.
    Pencil in nuclear war with the US for next Tuesday, then.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,009
    @DPJHodges

    Mandelson is going to have to resign. At which point the focus will shift to Starmer, and the perennial question. What did he know. And when did he know it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,316

    kinabalu said:

    Phillipson : 1.62
    Powell : 2.64

    So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
    Politically, I think there's very little between Powell and Phillipson - both soft left. But Powell, though I like her, has even less charisma than me. So it's Bridget, for cheering up the troops and selling the message.
    Yes, I was jesting there - apart from the bet and that I'll be voting for her. She'll be good, I think.
  • kinabalu said:

    Phillipson : 1.62
    Powell : 2.64

    So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
    I'd have backed Healey (John Healey, the Defence Secretary) if he were a woman.
    That’s just a weird post. Up your game.
    Up yours
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,006

    Proper procedures, full confidence latest

    NEW: Mandelson email to Epstein in June 2008:

    “I think the world of you and I feel hopeless and furious about what has happened.

    "I can still barely understand it. It just could not happen in Britain. You have to be incredibly resilient, fight for early release and be philosophical about it as much as you can... everything can be turned into an opportunity and that you will come through it and be stronger for it.

    "The whole thing has been years of torture and now you have to show the world how big a person you are, and how strong.

    "Your friends stay with you and love you.”

    Subcribe for more later on: youtube.com/@harrycolesave…

    Hmm. In some ways this gets Mandelson off the hook. He's clearly besotted with the man and believes him to be the innocent victim of some sort of witch hunt. Now, you can call that naïve and his loyalty appallingly misplaced, but that's better than the charge of knowingly hanging out with a sex fiend and partaking in his perversions. Mandy might just get away with this.
    The problem that Downing Street have here is that this is essentially the Prince Andrew defence - oh I’ve been a bit “too noble” and I should’ve cut things off earlier; I know how it looks but I haven’t done anything wrong…

    .. that defence landed in the court of public opinion with a very big thud. So Mandy advancing much the same argument isn’t going to look optimal, by pure comparison to the Andrew PR disaster.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,402

    Andy_JS said:

    Didn't Bob Worcester used to post on here in the early days?

    He did, I am doing a thread on him in the morning.
    Interesting obituary section in the Times today, with Bob Worcester, former Tory MP Tim Boswell, and longstanding Panorama presenter Michael Charlton.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,464
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Tories claim Starmer has 'put party above national security' by keeping Mandelson in post
    A Conservative party spokesperson issued this statement after PMQs.

    Keir Starmer was in complete disarray at PMQs.
    There are clearly questions he refuses to answer, because it appears he knew that Peter Mandelson had an intimate relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, and still chose to appoint him to one of our country’s most important diplomatic and economic roles.
    The prime minister has put his party, and his friend Mandelson above our national security. Only full transparency will now suffice. Starmer must immediately publish all documents related to Lord Mandelson’s appointment.
    The claim that having Mandelson remain as ambassador to the US could compromise national security echoes what Ed Davey suggested at PMQs when he asked if the White House had further “compromising material” on Mandelson that could, Davey implied, by used by Donald Trump as leverage.

    What a load of pompous bullshit!
    No. It’s actually true.

    You want people in a National Security position who can be so easily influenced and blackmailed in decision making.
    Do you actually believe what you've written or was it supposed to be a pastiche of a leader of the opposition during PMQs?
    I don’t know what happened to the question mark I sure I put in the end. 🤷‍♀️

    You want people in a National Security position who can be so easily influenced and blackmailed in decision making????

    That’s better.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,947
    The Starmer Social Media Red Rose In The Bio fan club are absolutely raging. It must be bad.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,242
    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Mandelson is going to have to resign. At which point the focus will shift to Starmer, and the perennial question. What did he know. And when did he know it.

    If only the PM of the Uk had access to some sort of entity which gathers information on people to ensure that the nation’s security and profile is safe and bad actors are kept away from influence.

    It could have a snappy title like MI5 and in this crazy scenario the PM could say “I’m thinking of appointing this chap to be the ambassador to our most important ally, are their any skeletons in his cupboard that might come back to bite me?”

    Or alternatively he could have just googled “Mandelson unsuitable activities contacts scandal.”
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,032
    viewcode said:

    I went up to Scotland last week (I might have mentioned it). I hate trains but I like the idea of a posh train to somewhere nice. That leaves me the Night Riviera sleeper train to Penzance, the Caledonian Sleeper to Inverness, or the Eurostar to Lille. Not big places, smallish nice towns with nice places where I can sit down and read books, reasonably luxurious and historic with nice buildings. Anybody been to Penzance, Inverness or Lille?



    Went to Lille on FlixBus from Victoria in 2022. I imagine train is more pleasant!

    Pedestrianised centre, lots of Spanish-style buildings (it was in Spanish Belgium). Good small Beaux Arts museum. Bit rougher a few streets away from the centre. Early unmanned underground system.

    You can take a day trip over the border to Courtray/Kortrijk.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,857
    Tired: Deputy leader election
    Wired: Mandy downfall Part III

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,666
    Yup, the murder of the Ukrainian girl has definitely breached social media. Loads of usually non-political people and large accounts are posting about it on Instagram and the comments are all pretty universal that the judge who let him walk needs to be held accountable for that decision as well as anger that the murder isn't getting mainstream coverage in the US.

    Let's see how it trends but this feels like a lightning rod for racial tension in the US and crime, safety for women and the glib responses (hurt durr, president grab em by the p****) from media types on the latter are really, really hurting the left.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,316

    kinabalu said:

    Proper procedures, full confidence latest

    NEW: Mandelson email to Epstein in June 2008:

    “I think the world of you and I feel hopeless and furious about what has happened.

    "I can still barely understand it. It just could not happen in Britain. You have to be incredibly resilient, fight for early release and be philosophical about it as much as you can... everything can be turned into an opportunity and that you will come through it and be stronger for it.

    "The whole thing has been years of torture and now you have to show the world how big a person you are, and how strong.

    "Your friends stay with you and love you.”

    Subcribe for more later on: youtube.com/@harrycolesave…

    That sounds like he genuinely really liked him.
    It sounds like a certain PB poster in terms of claiming the abuser is the victim.
    That's clearly how he saw Epstein then. It's not the note of somebody feeling cagey or ambivalent about him.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,947
    And what did Mandy mean by 'it couldn't happen in Britain'?

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,857
    What is this "it just could not happen in Britain" mean?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,123


    From 1997: Ghislaine Maxwell introducing Trump to a women 30 years his junior.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,666

    And what did Mandy mean by 'it couldn't happen in Britain'?

    Look at how the establishment covered up for Jimmy Savile among other criminals who perpetrated sex crimes against children.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,989
    John McDonnell scathing about Mandelson on Sky and saying Mandelson should just resign
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,800
    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Mandelson is going to have to resign. At which point the focus will shift to Starmer, and the perennial question. What did he know. And when did he know it.

    He didn’t know anything in the legal sense.

    This is because, due to an obscure definition of knowing in medieval law, having read a 1,245 page report on something doesn’t mean you know anything about the subject of the report.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,242

    John McDonnell scathing about Mandelson on Sky and saying Mandelson should just resign

    He was very critical when the appointment was imminent as well so not a bandwagon jumper.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,032
    edited 4:31PM

    And what did Mandy mean by 'it couldn't happen in Britain'?

    Being forced into a plea deal to avoid massive overcharging, I read it as.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,038
    John Mcdonnell clearly enjoying Starmer's discomfort over Mandelson.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,820
    If Starmer DOES have to resign, then the person who will be sobbing untrollably over his demise?

    Rayner...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,947

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Mandelson is going to have to resign. At which point the focus will shift to Starmer, and the perennial question. What did he know. And when did he know it.

    He didn’t know anything in the legal sense.

    This is because, due to an obscure definition of knowing in medieval law, having read a 1,245 page report on something doesn’t mean you know anything about the subject of the report.
    It didn't cross his desk.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,402
    "Tube drivers striking ‘because they cannot buy in London on £72k salary’
    Calls for workers to be given 75pc discount on all mainline train tickets and deals on theme parks" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/10/tube-drivers-striking-because-cannot-buy-london-72k-salary/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,316
    MaxPB said:

    Yup, the murder of the Ukrainian girl has definitely breached social media. Loads of usually non-political people and large accounts are posting about it on Instagram and the comments are all pretty universal that the judge who let him walk needs to be held accountable for that decision as well as anger that the murder isn't getting mainstream coverage in the US.

    Let's see how it trends but this feels like a lightning rod for racial tension in the US and crime, safety for women and the glib responses (hurt durr, president grab em by the p****) from media types on the latter are really, really hurting the left.

    What's the best response to something you feel is intended to stoke up racial hatred?

    (I agree that glibness isn't)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,698
    Scott_xP said:

    I see Farage is indirectly batting for Mandelson.

    Another reason to sack him. Today.
    I think he'll be gone before long.

    The question is ... replacement?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,402
    MaxPB said:

    Yup, the murder of the Ukrainian girl has definitely breached social media. Loads of usually non-political people and large accounts are posting about it on Instagram and the comments are all pretty universal that the judge who let him walk needs to be held accountable for that decision as well as anger that the murder isn't getting mainstream coverage in the US.

    Let's see how it trends but this feels like a lightning rod for racial tension in the US and crime, safety for women and the glib responses (hurt durr, president grab em by the p****) from media types on the latter are really, really hurting the left.

    Even the censored video is one of the most horrible things I've ever seen.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,857

    If Starmer DOES have to resign, then the person who will be sobbing untrollably over his demise?

    Rayner...

    Burnham will be sat crying next to her.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,820
    carnforth said:

    And what did Mandy mean by 'it couldn't happen in Britain'?

    Being forced into a plea deal to avoid massive overcharging, I read it as.
    Or...he'd have his own TV show and access to the giddy heights of royalty and government.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,872
    Omnium said:

    I tell you who should succeed Mandy as our man in Washington.

    Lord Cameron, there's precedent for a peer and former Foreign Secretary to be our man in Washington.

    Liz Truss all the way. Diplomatic credit where diplomatic credit is deserved.
    Yes, think of the pork markets.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,316

    kinabalu said:

    Phillipson : 1.62
    Powell : 2.64

    So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
    Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
    C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,396
    edited 4:36PM
    Andy_JS said:

    "Tube drivers striking ‘because they cannot buy in London on £72k salary’
    Calls for workers to be given 75pc discount on all mainline train tickets and deals on theme parks" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/10/tube-drivers-striking-because-cannot-buy-london-72k-salary/

    Isn't that just because the deals on theme parks are standard add-ons for anyone who buys a rail ticket/has a railcard/season ticket?

    It's a bit like insinuating that any commuter has convenient access to St Pancras Hotel.
Sign In or Register to comment.