So Putin has concluded (correctly) that he's faced with the weakest most naive and clueless American president in history and is acting accordingly. Dangerous times.
On the other hand, it may be just as well.
A different President might have had us halfway to Leningrad by now.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
A fair summary. Similar to Pincher, though higher profile.
13.5 on Betfair for Starmer to go in 2025, next PM would be Labour and won't be Rayner or Burnham, going to need a safe pair of hands. Milliband, McFadden are both available at 85
Just had a peer through the odds on skybet - the first few contenders are as you expect - Farage, Streeting, Jenrick, Badenoch ... but at about 9th place is Ben Habib at 28/1. This strikes me as an absurdly high position.
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
It's spreading like wildfire across social media, definitely broken through on Instagram which doesn't happen often and a lot of fingers being pointed at the judge who let him walk.
Another worrying thing about the drone incident is that we were using F35s to shoot down cheap drones. And we didn't even manage to shoot them all down.
If another European country were facing the kind of mass attacks that Ukraine faces, that simply isn't sustainable for much more than a couple of weeks.
In a world without the US element of the NATO guarantee, what, in our current capacity, is to prevent Russia threatening or blackmailing some of the smaller European states ? It's not as though international norms will do that.
This is what I keep thinking - what is the point of NATO article 5 if America are no longer underwriting it?
In fact what is NATO without America?
It is everyone else.
The rest of the members (with the possible exception of Hungary) have a very strong shared interest in containing Russia - and the economic and military capacity to do so. All they lack currently is the determination.
If the US doesn't like it, we can label it something other than NATO.
NEATO. North East Atlantic Treaty Organisation.
The successor to NATO should obviously be called NATWO.
Is NAT0 not followed by NAT1?
I quite like PEWTY - Protecting Europe Without The Yanks
"Putin has to understand that if he attacks a PEWTY country there'll be hell to pay. Russia has a large army but it's no match for PEWTY."
Good to see Mandy is an equal opportunities fucker-upper, just as happy to fuck things up for Starmer as he was for Blair...
I wonder if REALLY embarrassing stories about Mandy will ever hit the mainstream? If I've heard the stories, you'd think Starmer and the vetting team would have heard them too... Given his record, it's not as if you'd give him a pass, heh?
It reminds me of Hague promoting Jeffrey Archer for Mayor against all advice and for a very long time after it was even half sensible.
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
Will your creaky old bones manage repeatedly taking the knee?
I’m going to do a solo riot here in Santa Maria Navarrese which will mainly involve me, a bar on the cliffs and a large glass of Cannonau
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
A fair summary. Similar to Pincher, though higher profile.
Leaving us with (checks notes) Prime Minister David Lammy?!
Available at 100, rules are "next PM after Starmer", Betfair need to clarify that.
Another worrying thing about the drone incident is that we were using F35s to shoot down cheap drones. And we didn't even manage to shoot them all down.
If another European country were facing the kind of mass attacks that Ukraine faces, that simply isn't sustainable for much more than a couple of weeks.
In a world without the US element of the NATO guarantee, what, in our current capacity, is to prevent Russia threatening or blackmailing some of the smaller European states ? It's not as though international norms will do that.
This is what I keep thinking - what is the point of NATO article 5 if America are no longer underwriting it?
In fact what is NATO without America?
It is everyone else.
The rest of the members (with the possible exception of Hungary) have a very strong shared interest in containing Russia - and the economic and military capacity to do so. All they lack currently is the determination.
If the US doesn't like it, we can label it something other than NATO.
NEATO. North East Atlantic Treaty Organisation.
The successor to NATO should obviously be called NATWO.
Is NAT0 not followed by NAT1?
I quite like PEWTY - Protecting Europe Without The Yanks
"Putin has to understand that if he attacks a PEWTY country there'll be hell to pay. Russia has a large army but it's no match for PEWTY."
So, Protecting Europe REALLY Matters....
The Russians are no match for our SPERM...
Lol, yes. But I was being serious. The name has to have an air of power and professionalism about it - which PEWTY surely does.
Officials then “mandated” that he agree to be removed from the US despite not having violated his visa...
Detained Korean workers’ departure from US delayed https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/foreignaffairs/20250910/detained-korean-workers-departure-from-us-delayed ..Seoul has stressed that the workers will leave under the rules of voluntary departure, which do not carry the same legal consequences as deportation. Nevertheless, U.S. immigration law allows for bans to be imposed depending on the length of the unlawful stay, so the possibility of individual penalties cannot be ruled out.
The situation became more confusing when some detainees signed forms early on that included a $1,000 payment for voluntary departure to avoid a 10-year entry ban.
It is possible that the U.S. authorities may regard those who sign the forms as admitting the illegality of their stay and later ban them from reentering.
A lawyer helping the workers in Georgia told Yonhap News that Korean consular staff learned about these forms being signed and made the paperwork invalid, which only aggravated confusion among the workers.
The debate intensified after U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem said “they will be deported,” a remark widely seen as blurring the line between two very different legal outcomes and raising fears that it could affect future visa screenings.
Foreign Minister Cho Hyun, who was in Washington for talks with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, informed lawmakers prior to his trip that the two governments had reached a “broad agreement” on avoiding reentry problems. “We are working to ensure citizens are treated as voluntary departures and are not disadvantaged later,” he said.
However, his meeting with Rubio was postponed from Tuesday to Wednesday (local time), and the delay raised concerns that the two countries had not finalized an agreement on the reentry issue..
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
Starmer won’t sack Mandelson. He’ll ask him to resign . Even if that happens this shouldn’t end the matter .
He was made ambassador when it was known he had stayed in Epsteins apartment whilst he was in prison.
Any politician who isn’t a complete moron would have not gone anywhere near Mandelson .
And his comments about Rayner in attempting to embarrass Badenoch were a disgrace , to stab her in the back like that.
That was a bizarre line. I had to play it back to make sure I’d heard it correctly.
He actually did try to score a political point off the LOTO not asking the right questions about his own deputy’s wrongdoing?
I'm beginning to wonder if the McLibel Two should have had a different legal advisor. They might have got off altogether!
Have you been listening to the series about it on R4? In the bits I’ve heard they’ve actually been pretty complimentary about Starmer, and he sounds normal. Where/when did it all go wrong?
He shook hands with Trump and contracted the disease that Trump carries. It makes your brains melt and run out of your ears.
See the numerous people who were sane, intelligent and capable. Then progressed to the IQ of lettuce. Such as Giuliani.
I think sending cruise missiles into Russian drone factories would be a proportionate response to their drone attack on Poland last night, and would make it unlikely Russia would attack NATO with drones again.
If we brush it off at no big deal they will attack again and escalate further.
If the Poles want to send six drones into Russian airspace in response that would be up to them, anything else would be a disproportionate escalation
Poland are in NATO and have come under attack from Russia and in these circumstances it is de facto a NATO issue
If you want to be seen as a Putin appeaser so be it
Putin also has more nuclear missiles than anyone else on earth. Putin's ally Belarus have now said the drones were sent in error into Poland, the drones have been shot down by the Poles in response, I would leave it there.
You really are a Putin apologist
And you believe Belarus
Maybe you should listen to Europe allies
None of them unlike you seem to want WW3, the drones have been shot down, leave it there
Okay. Let's start by assuming that no-one (*) on this board wants WW3. That line
As you seem to be one of the most fervent "Putin has nukes!!!!" screechers, I'll ask you the usual questions. Where is your red line? What would Putin have to do, how much of Europe would Putin have to seize, before you think that the risk of WW3 (**) is lower than the risk of letting his ambitions go unchecked?
I don't expect much of an answer from you.
(*) Except perhaps @Dura_Ace ... (**) Which would be much greater by this stage.
Invade a NATO nation with troops and tanks
So you're happy with his malign influence spreading politically through countries like Hungary, without an invasion? Because that's Putin's first route to gain power over somewhere, and he's doing it throughout Europe.
Orban was elected in Hungary whether you like him or not
That's the point: there's a big question about how much Russia interfered with the Hungarian elections.
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
Completely OTT. Without googling, can anyone tell us the name of any of our Ambassadors to the US in the Biden administration?
Thought not. The Ambassador is clearly an important source of Ferraro Roche but other than that....
Karen Pierce was very good . She was appointed by Johnson but everyone had a lot of respect for her . Originally it was suggested that Tim Barrow would replace her but then Starmer decided to put the walking slime in place .
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
Completely OTT. Without googling, can anyone tell us the name of any of our Ambassadors to the US in the Biden administration?
Thought not. The Ambassador is clearly an important source of Ferraro Roche but other than that....
This ambassador is a bit different though. There was a deliberate choice for this to be a more political appointee as opposed to a career diplomat. This was done to demonstrate the Labour government’s willingness to work closely with the Trump Administration and as a way of promoting close ties.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
The interesting thing about this one is that it's just blown up despite there being very little by way of new information.
When Starmer appointed him ambassador, we already knew Mandelson had a close relationship with Epstein both before and after Epstein got nicked. The only new information is a bit of extra cringe from Epstein's birthday card.
We also already knew that every time M gets appointed to something it ends up with him resigning in disgrace.
And that's just the public knowledge - never mind the results of any due diligence.
Starmer should have some very difficult explaining to do about what on earth induced him to give M the job - it probably should be a resignation matter, but doubtless he'll blame someone else (like usual).
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
Completely OTT. Without googling, can anyone tell us the name of any of our Ambassadors to the US in the Biden administration?
Thought not. The Ambassador is clearly an important source of Ferraro Roche but other than that....
Karen Pierce was very good . She was appointed by Johnson but everyone had a lot of respect for her . Originally it was suggested that Tim Barrow would replace her but then Starmer decided to put the walking slime in place .
Ok, I should have known better than to throw a rhetorical question like that on PB.
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
Not really. Some people are dangerous and should be kept away from others, regardless of cause. If he has mens rea he should be put in jail for a long time. If he hasn't, then he should be put in a prison for the mentally ill for a long time. Ultimately you can't cure people of being people, and some people are dangerous.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
“I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.”
At the moment they are not at all softening their stance, in fact number ten choosing to dig themselves deeper into the mire.
From live Grunidan Blog No 10 says Mandelson subject to 'extensive' vetting before appointment as ambassador to US At the post-PMQs lobby briefing the PM’s spokesperson would not discuss in detail what Keir Starmer knew about Peter Mandelson’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein before he appointed him ambassador to Washington. But he stressed that the pre-appointment vetting was “extensive” – implying No 10 did know quite a lot about this.
The spokesperson said:
We have been very clear that the victims of Jeffrey Epstein are at the forefront of our minds, he was a despicable criminal who committed the most heinous crimes and destroyed the lives of so many women and girls. On the appointment process, any candidates for ambassador positions are subject to extensive vetting and background checks by the Foreign Office and Cabinet Office as a matter of course. Asked if Starmer was surprised by the latest revelations, the spokesperson said that Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein “has been a matter of public record for some time and the ambassador himself has repeatedly addressed questions on it”.
NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte spoke to reporters about Russian drone incursion into Poland, a key NATO ally.
“Last night, numerous drones from Russia violated Polish airspace. Our air defences were activated and successfully ensured the defence of NATO territory, as they are designed to do. Several Allies were involved alongside Poland. This included Polish F16s, Dutch F35s, Italian AWACS, NATO Multi Role Tanker Transport, and German Patriots. I commend the pilots and all who contributed to this quick and skillful response.” https://x.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1965741561813078494
The AIM 120s used to shoot some of them down cost well over $1m. A Patriot, depending on the model, is $2m or more.
And that's ignoring the cost of having all those very expensive asserts airborne.
A Shaheed type drone costs somewhere between $10 and $50k.
The US ordered 45,000 of BAE's APKWS warheads for drone interception, which represent perhaps $40k per shot. We have yet to order any in quantity, despite developing and manufacturing them, and despite the fact that we're the ones facing the near term threat.
Rutte is a buffoon.
He's not alone. Our entire defence establishment would rather have 1 fantastic piece of kit than 20 ordinary pieces. Even after Ukraine has proven once again that in a war that lasts more than a few weeks numbers are absolutely everything. We need cheap, cheerful and plentiful kit. Right now, not in 10 years time after endless committees have spiralled the costs to something acceptable to our arms industries desired profit margins. We should be buying licences off Ukraine who are far more effective at intercepting drones than all that kit was last night, and get building. Now.
After the first few weeks of the drone thing, we should have ordered about 5,000 Marksman turrets, which you can put in any old tank hull. Buy some T55 from Tanks Alot.
But that wouldn’t cost trillions and have a 23,000 page requirement.
What am I missing ? Wouldn’t it be clear to anyone that making a deal with a paedo should be completely unacceptable, staying in his apartment while he’s in prison is similarly totally unacceptable. How the fxck do you get the job of ambassador to the US with all that already known ?
It is mind boggling
And in the FT Mandelson himself is quoted as saying “there is probably much more to come out”
For me the killer is, as you say, the fact he stayed in Epstein’s NYC house even as Epstein was in jail for underage sex and trafficking
There’s no way around that. You can’t say you didn’t know. You knew. And did it anyway
Surely toast
Yup, the veneer of plausible deniability has gone. I also saw people defending Mandy on the basis that he wouldn't be interested in the underage girls that Epstein was procuring, but is it difficult to imagine that he wouldn't also be able to procure underage boys too?!
Epstein had quite a few famously gay guests. Eg the actor and disgraced sex offender Kevin Spacey. I presume that he was attracted to pedo island by the yummy yum yum omelettes
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
Has Nigel been calling for PM's head?
Recent news report:
Nigel Farage, an ally of Trump and the leader of Reform UK, has recently defended those who had dealings with Epstein in an interview with PoliticsHome, saying: “How could anybody in American high society in New York in the 80s and 90s not have had links with Epstein?
“His business empire his social empire, his tentacle went very, very deep through American society. So the idea that you’re guilty by association because you knew Epstein – I mean you would put the whole of America in jail who were prominent people in business or media in the 1980s.”
NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte spoke to reporters about Russian drone incursion into Poland, a key NATO ally.
“Last night, numerous drones from Russia violated Polish airspace. Our air defences were activated and successfully ensured the defence of NATO territory, as they are designed to do. Several Allies were involved alongside Poland. This included Polish F16s, Dutch F35s, Italian AWACS, NATO Multi Role Tanker Transport, and German Patriots. I commend the pilots and all who contributed to this quick and skillful response.” https://x.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1965741561813078494
The AIM 120s used to shoot some of them down cost well over $1m. A Patriot, depending on the model, is $2m or more.
And that's ignoring the cost of having all those very expensive asserts airborne.
A Shaheed type drone costs somewhere between $10 and $50k.
The US ordered 45,000 of BAE's APKWS warheads for drone interception, which represent perhaps $40k per shot. We have yet to order any in quantity, despite developing and manufacturing them, and despite the fact that we're the ones facing the near term threat.
Rutte is a buffoon.
He's not alone. Our entire defence establishment would rather have 1 fantastic piece of kit than 20 ordinary pieces. Even after Ukraine has proven once again that in a war that lasts more than a few weeks numbers are absolutely everything. We need cheap, cheerful and plentiful kit. Right now, not in 10 years time after endless committees have spiralled the costs to something acceptable to our arms industries desired profit margins. We should be buying licences off Ukraine who are far more effective at intercepting drones than all that kit was last night, and get building. Now.
Germany has recognised that in their planned order of hundreds of the modern equivalent of the very effective Gepard which Ukraine is using to shoot down hundreds of drones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyranger_35
There isn't a single solution, but that's one; APKWS would be another already available. Anti-drone drones (as already fielded in Ukraine) would be another.
It will be interesting to see the detailed consequences of the defence review, and what lessons they have and haven't yet learned.
This sort of thing is constantly in flux.
I understand, for example, that Russia is now flying improved Shahed drones at higher altitudes until they reach their target. This is because they're too cheap to waste expensive air defence missiles on, so they don't need to fly low to avoid traditional air defence missiles. Flying high puts them out of range of Gepard-style measures. This would mean you would have to station the Gepards/equivalents to defend particular sites, rather than to defend a border - it massively increases the number of those systems that you need.
Ukraine was said to be massively increasing the production of interceptor drones a while ago, but I haven't since heard much about them. I wonder whether Russian innovations have made them much less effective than hoped.
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
Not really. Some people are dangerous and should be kept away from others, regardless of cause. If he has mens rea he should be put in jail for a long time. If he hasn't, then he should be put in a prison for the mentally ill for a long time. Ultimately you can't cure people of being people, and some people are dangerous.
He’s been charged Federally, which means he’s liable for the death penalty. Given the irrefutable evidence there’s a good chance he will fry
Turns out his half brother also shot dead a white man and his dad is a career criminal as well
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
Has Nigel been calling for PM's head?
Recent news report:
Nigel Farage, an ally of Trump and the leader of Reform UK, has recently defended those who had dealings with Epstein in an interview with PoliticsHome, saying: “How could anybody in American high society in New York in the 80s and 90s not have had links with Epstein?
“His business empire his social empire, his tentacle went very, very deep through American society. So the idea that you’re guilty by association because you knew Epstein – I mean you would put the whole of America in jail who were prominent people in business or media in the 1980s.”
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
Has Nigel been calling for PM's head?
Recent news report:
Nigel Farage, an ally of Trump and the leader of Reform UK, has recently defended those who had dealings with Epstein in an interview with PoliticsHome, saying: “How could anybody in American high society in New York in the 80s and 90s not have had links with Epstein?
“His business empire his social empire, his tentacle went very, very deep through American society. So the idea that you’re guilty by association because you knew Epstein – I mean you would put the whole of America in jail who were prominent people in business or media in the 1980s.”
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
What am I missing ? Wouldn’t it be clear to anyone that making a deal with a paedo should be completely unacceptable, staying in his apartment while he’s in prison is similarly totally unacceptable. How the fxck do you get the job of ambassador to the US with all that already known ?
It is mind boggling
And in the FT Mandelson himself is quoted as saying “there is probably much more to come out”
For me the killer is, as you say, the fact he stayed in Epstein’s NYC house even as Epstein was in jail for underage sex and trafficking
There’s no way around that. You can’t say you didn’t know. You knew. And did it anyway
Surely toast
Yup, the veneer of plausible deniability has gone. I also saw people defending Mandy on the basis that he wouldn't be interested in the underage girls that Epstein was procuring, but is it difficult to imagine that he wouldn't also be able to procure underage boys too?!
Epstein had quite a few famously gay guests. Eg the actor and disgraced sex offender Kevin Spacey. I presume that he was attracted to pedo island by the yummy yum yum omelettes
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
Has Nigel been calling for PM's head?
Recent news report:
Nigel Farage, an ally of Trump and the leader of Reform UK, has recently defended those who had dealings with Epstein in an interview with PoliticsHome, saying: “How could anybody in American high society in New York in the 80s and 90s not have had links with Epstein?
“His business empire his social empire, his tentacle went very, very deep through American society. So the idea that you’re guilty by association because you knew Epstein – I mean you would put the whole of America in jail who were prominent people in business or media in the 1980s.”
So, what was Nigel's point?
Besides, Mandy is padding around Yum Yum island in fluffy bathrobe a lot more recently than the eighties or even nineties.
‘ For Labour to have kicked out MPs for being on a stage with Ken Loach or retweeting Maxine Peak, but allowing the close mate of history's most prolific paedophile to be ambassador to the US shows complete moral bankruptcy. A horrific decision that will haunt us for years.’
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
Has Nigel been calling for PM's head?
Recent news report:
Nigel Farage, an ally of Trump and the leader of Reform UK, has recently defended those who had dealings with Epstein in an interview with PoliticsHome, saying: “How could anybody in American high society in New York in the 80s and 90s not have had links with Epstein?
“His business empire his social empire, his tentacle went very, very deep through American society. So the idea that you’re guilty by association because you knew Epstein – I mean you would put the whole of America in jail who were prominent people in business or media in the 1980s.”
So, what was Nigel's point?
The irony of Farage's success is that it is built on the reaction to a series of disasters which he has warmly supported. To whit,
The divisions and damage caused by Brexit Truss's budget The re-election of Trump The indulgence of Putin by useful idiots
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that one of his hobbies is breeding Chinese fruit bats.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
“I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.”
At the moment they are not at all softening their stance, in fact number ten choosing to dig themselves deeper into the mire.
From live Grunidan Blog No 10 says Mandelson subject to 'extensive' vetting before appointment as ambassador to US At the post-PMQs lobby briefing the PM’s spokesperson would not discuss in detail what Keir Starmer knew about Peter Mandelson’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein before he appointed him ambassador to Washington. But he stressed that the pre-appointment vetting was “extensive” – implying No 10 did know quite a lot about this.
The spokesperson said:
We have been very clear that the victims of Jeffrey Epstein are at the forefront of our minds, he was a despicable criminal who committed the most heinous crimes and destroyed the lives of so many women and girls. On the appointment process, any candidates for ambassador positions are subject to extensive vetting and background checks by the Foreign Office and Cabinet Office as a matter of course. Asked if Starmer was surprised by the latest revelations, the spokesperson said that Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein “has been a matter of public record for some time and the ambassador himself has repeatedly addressed questions on it”.
Again, mind boggling
This position cannot hold. Even if you accept Mandelson’s claim that he saw nothing and understood nothing, despite several visits to pedo island, and even if you accept that the cringey innuendo laden sexual banter in his ten page love letter to Epstein is all innocent - the fact is Mandelson stayed in Epstein’s house as Epstein’s guest when Epstein was serving time for pedophilia and trafficking
There is no plausible escape from that fact. Mandelson knew all that and still thought it was a great idea to accept hospitality from his best pal, the convicted pedophile Jeff
I simply don't understand why the west hasn't simply cut Russia off. No trade, no arsy Russian tourists, no internet, no anything.
Putin to be forced to act in EastEnders, and Labarov in a glee show.
The Hungarians have finally signed a contract to buy gas from Shell, so perhaps the end of Europe's direct purchases of Russian fossil fuels is finally in sight. Then we'd need to deal with the indirect purchases. And stop Russia buying our stuff via intermediaries.
It really is remarkable how much trade is still going on.
NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte spoke to reporters about Russian drone incursion into Poland, a key NATO ally.
“Last night, numerous drones from Russia violated Polish airspace. Our air defences were activated and successfully ensured the defence of NATO territory, as they are designed to do. Several Allies were involved alongside Poland. This included Polish F16s, Dutch F35s, Italian AWACS, NATO Multi Role Tanker Transport, and German Patriots. I commend the pilots and all who contributed to this quick and skillful response.” https://x.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1965741561813078494
The AIM 120s used to shoot some of them down cost well over $1m. A Patriot, depending on the model, is $2m or more.
And that's ignoring the cost of having all those very expensive asserts airborne.
A Shaheed type drone costs somewhere between $10 and $50k.
The US ordered 45,000 of BAE's APKWS warheads for drone interception, which represent perhaps $40k per shot. We have yet to order any in quantity, despite developing and manufacturing them, and despite the fact that we're the ones facing the near term threat.
Rutte is a buffoon.
He's not alone. Our entire defence establishment would rather have 1 fantastic piece of kit than 20 ordinary pieces. Even after Ukraine has proven once again that in a war that lasts more than a few weeks numbers are absolutely everything. We need cheap, cheerful and plentiful kit. Right now, not in 10 years time after endless committees have spiralled the costs to something acceptable to our arms industries desired profit margins. We should be buying licences off Ukraine who are far more effective at intercepting drones than all that kit was last night, and get building. Now.
After the first few weeks of the drone thing, we should have ordered about 5,000 Marksman turrets, which you can put in any old tank hull. Buy some T55 from Tanks Alot.
But that wouldn’t cost trillions and have a 23,000 page requirement.
Wartime procurement looks very different from peacetime procurement.
In peacetime it’s all about maintaining the capabilities, which is why we have things such as steelworks and chemicals factories ending up being nationalised. The big boondoggle that takes a decade, goes way over budget but pushes technology, let’s call it F-35, is a great example of peacetime procurement.
In wartime, on the other hand, you first of all need ammo, absolutely fcukloads of ammo. Then you need even more ammo, because it gets used faster than anyone could possibly imagine. Then start on making last-generation weapons, because you know they work and there should be a production line that can be dusted off. Also set up a bunch of Skunkworks / DARPA teams to play around with newer technology, such as the modified toy drones that have worked so well in the current war in Ukraine. Once they realised they could not just use small drones to spot artillery, but actually use them to drop grenades on tanks, this war changed completely. The Soviet tank design has a fundamental flaw which makes it very susceptible to attack from directly above, often blowing up the stored ammunition from a small grenade strike.
It’s always said that you should be planning for the next war rather than the last one, but there’s an awful lot we can all learn from the Ukranians once this war is over.
I simply don't understand why the west hasn't simply cut Russia off. No trade, no arsy Russian tourists, no internet, no anything.
Putin to be forced to act in EastEnders, and Labarov in a glee show.
The Hungarians have finally signed a contract to buy gas from Shell, so perhaps the end of Europe's direct purchases of Russian fossil fuels is finally in sight. Then we'd need to deal with the indirect purchases. And stop Russia buying our stuff via intermediaries.
It really is remarkable how much trade is still going on.
I was in Hungary last week. It's such a great place! I find it very hard to imagine that they are really that much in favour of Putin and co. Today Orban has condemned the Russian action.
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
Floyd triggered a movement to highlight racial injustice in America. What is this movement (if it takes off) seeking to highlight? That black men are allowed to murder white women or something?
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
“I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.”
At the moment they are not at all softening their stance, in fact number ten choosing to dig themselves deeper into the mire.
From live Grunidan Blog No 10 says Mandelson subject to 'extensive' vetting before appointment as ambassador to US At the post-PMQs lobby briefing the PM’s spokesperson would not discuss in detail what Keir Starmer knew about Peter Mandelson’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein before he appointed him ambassador to Washington. But he stressed that the pre-appointment vetting was “extensive” – implying No 10 did know quite a lot about this.
The spokesperson said:
We have been very clear that the victims of Jeffrey Epstein are at the forefront of our minds, he was a despicable criminal who committed the most heinous crimes and destroyed the lives of so many women and girls. On the appointment process, any candidates for ambassador positions are subject to extensive vetting and background checks by the Foreign Office and Cabinet Office as a matter of course. Asked if Starmer was surprised by the latest revelations, the spokesperson said that Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein “has been a matter of public record for some time and the ambassador himself has repeatedly addressed questions on it”.
Again, mind boggling
This position cannot hold. Even if you accept Mandelson’s claim that he saw nothing and understood nothing, despite several visits to pedo island, and even if you accept that the cringey innuendo laden sexual banter in his ten page love letter to Epstein is all innocent - the fact is Mandelson stayed in Epstein’s house as Epstein’s guest when Epstein was serving time for pedophilia and trafficking
There is no plausible escape from that fact. Mandelson knew all that and still thought it was a great idea to accept hospitality from his best pal, the convicted pedophile Jeff
Mandelson clearly knows that there's worse to come. Quite how he manages to feel he's a suitable representative for our nation and has this seedy trail baffles me. He should obviously resign immediately. If he doesn't then Starmer is going to have to sack him.
I've long thought that Mandelson's activities might be quite newsworthy, and I suspect we may find out soon. A man with deeply suspicious finances in my view.
NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte spoke to reporters about Russian drone incursion into Poland, a key NATO ally.
“Last night, numerous drones from Russia violated Polish airspace. Our air defences were activated and successfully ensured the defence of NATO territory, as they are designed to do. Several Allies were involved alongside Poland. This included Polish F16s, Dutch F35s, Italian AWACS, NATO Multi Role Tanker Transport, and German Patriots. I commend the pilots and all who contributed to this quick and skillful response.” https://x.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1965741561813078494
The AIM 120s used to shoot some of them down cost well over $1m. A Patriot, depending on the model, is $2m or more.
And that's ignoring the cost of having all those very expensive asserts airborne.
A Shaheed type drone costs somewhere between $10 and $50k.
The US ordered 45,000 of BAE's APKWS warheads for drone interception, which represent perhaps $40k per shot. We have yet to order any in quantity, despite developing and manufacturing them, and despite the fact that we're the ones facing the near term threat.
Rutte is a buffoon.
He's not alone. Our entire defence establishment would rather have 1 fantastic piece of kit than 20 ordinary pieces. Even after Ukraine has proven once again that in a war that lasts more than a few weeks numbers are absolutely everything. We need cheap, cheerful and plentiful kit. Right now, not in 10 years time after endless committees have spiralled the costs to something acceptable to our arms industries desired profit margins. We should be buying licences off Ukraine who are far more effective at intercepting drones than all that kit was last night, and get building. Now.
After the first few weeks of the drone thing, we should have ordered about 5,000 Marksman turrets, which you can put in any old tank hull. Buy some T55 from Tanks Alot.
But that wouldn’t cost trillions and have a 23,000 page requirement.
Wartime procurement looks very different from peacetime procurement.
In peacetime it’s all about maintaining the capabilities, which is why we have things such as steelworks and chemicals factories ending up being nationalised. The big boondoggle that takes a decade, goes way over budget but pushes technology, let’s call it F-35, is a great example of peacetime procurement.
In wartime, on the other hand, you first of all need ammo, absolutely fcukloads of ammo. Then you need even more ammo, because it gets used faster than anyone could possibly imagine. Then start on making last-generation weapons, because you know they work and there should be a production line that can be dusted off. Also set up a bunch of Skunkworks / DARPA teams to play around with newer technology, such as the modified toy drones that have worked so well in the current war in Ukraine. Once they realised they could not just use small drones to spot artillery, but actually use them to drop grenades on tanks, this war changed completely. The Soviet tank design has a fundamental flaw which makes it very susceptible to attack from directly above, often blowing up the stored ammunition from a small grenade strike.
It’s always said that you should be planning for the next war rather than the last one, but there’s an awful lot we can all learn from the Ukranians once this war is over.
SPAAG went out of style because helicopters and fast jets use stand off missiles.
SPAAG is perfect to deal with drones as a local threat. SPAAG back in style….
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
“I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.”
At the moment they are not at all softening their stance, in fact number ten choosing to dig themselves deeper into the mire.
From live Grunidan Blog No 10 says Mandelson subject to 'extensive' vetting before appointment as ambassador to US At the post-PMQs lobby briefing the PM’s spokesperson would not discuss in detail what Keir Starmer knew about Peter Mandelson’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein before he appointed him ambassador to Washington. But he stressed that the pre-appointment vetting was “extensive” – implying No 10 did know quite a lot about this.
The spokesperson said:
We have been very clear that the victims of Jeffrey Epstein are at the forefront of our minds, he was a despicable criminal who committed the most heinous crimes and destroyed the lives of so many women and girls. On the appointment process, any candidates for ambassador positions are subject to extensive vetting and background checks by the Foreign Office and Cabinet Office as a matter of course. Asked if Starmer was surprised by the latest revelations, the spokesperson said that Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein “has been a matter of public record for some time and the ambassador himself has repeatedly addressed questions on it”.
Again, mind boggling
This position cannot hold. Even if you accept Mandelson’s claim that he saw nothing and understood nothing, despite several visits to pedo island, and even if you accept that the cringey innuendo laden sexual banter in his ten page love letter to Epstein is all innocent - the fact is Mandelson stayed in Epstein’s house as Epstein’s guest when Epstein was serving time for pedophilia and trafficking
There is no plausible escape from that fact. Mandelson knew all that and still thought it was a great idea to accept hospitality from his best pal, the convicted pedophile Jeff
Mandelson clearly knows that there's worse to come. Quite how he manages to feel he's a suitable representative for our nation and has this seedy trail baffles me. He should obviously resign immediately. If he doesn't then Starmer is going to have to sack him.
I've long thought that Mandelson's activities might be quite newsworthy, and I suspect we may find out soon. A man with deeply suspicious finances in my view.
The 'worse to come' is going to make an absolute mockery of Starmers 'due process'
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
Floyd triggered a movement to highlight racial injustice in America. What is this movement (if it takes off) seeking to highlight? That black men are allowed to murder white women or something?
The extraordinary disparities in violent crime, by race
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
“I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.”
At the moment they are not at all softening their stance, in fact number ten choosing to dig themselves deeper into the mire.
From live Grunidan Blog No 10 says Mandelson subject to 'extensive' vetting before appointment as ambassador to US At the post-PMQs lobby briefing the PM’s spokesperson would not discuss in detail what Keir Starmer knew about Peter Mandelson’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein before he appointed him ambassador to Washington. But he stressed that the pre-appointment vetting was “extensive” – implying No 10 did know quite a lot about this.
The spokesperson said:
We have been very clear that the victims of Jeffrey Epstein are at the forefront of our minds, he was a despicable criminal who committed the most heinous crimes and destroyed the lives of so many women and girls. On the appointment process, any candidates for ambassador positions are subject to extensive vetting and background checks by the Foreign Office and Cabinet Office as a matter of course. Asked if Starmer was surprised by the latest revelations, the spokesperson said that Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein “has been a matter of public record for some time and the ambassador himself has repeatedly addressed questions on it”.
Again, mind boggling
This position cannot hold. Even if you accept Mandelson’s claim that he saw nothing and understood nothing, despite several visits to pedo island, and even if you accept that the cringey innuendo laden sexual banter in his ten page love letter to Epstein is all innocent - the fact is Mandelson stayed in Epstein’s house as Epstein’s guest when Epstein was serving time for pedophilia and trafficking
There is no plausible escape from that fact. Mandelson knew all that and still thought it was a great idea to accept hospitality from his best pal, the convicted pedophile Jeff
Mandelson clearly knows that there's worse to come. Quite how he manages to feel he's a suitable representative for our nation and has this seedy trail baffles me. He should obviously resign immediately. If he doesn't then Starmer is going to have to sack him.
I've long thought that Mandelson's activities might be quite newsworthy, and I suspect we may find out soon. A man with deeply suspicious finances in my view.
Perhaps Mandy - master of media manipulation that he is - has only said there is worse to come so that everyone waits with bated breath then eventually loses interest when nothing materializes.
So Putin has concluded (correctly) that he's faced with the weakest most naive and clueless American president in history and is acting accordingly. Dangerous times.
On the other hand, it may be just as well.
A different President might have had us halfway to Leningrad by now.
He's not alone. Our entire defence establishment would rather have 1 fantastic piece of kit than 20 ordinary pieces. Even after Ukraine has proven once again that in a war that lasts more than a few weeks numbers are absolutely everything. We need cheap, cheerful and plentiful kit. Right now, not in 10 years time after endless committees have spiralled the costs to something acceptable to our arms industries desired profit margins. We should be buying licences off Ukraine who are far more effective at intercepting drones than all that kit was last night, and get building. Now.
Spot on. The strategy of technology works, up to a point. If the enemy has 100 average bits of kit and you have 50 great ones, you'll probably win. But as the Germans found out in Russia if the ratio is 10:1 or 20:1 you lose. Unmanned systems have made quantity over quality a much more viable tactic because you don't have to train crews. One skilled drone operator can pilot hundreds or thousands of drones over a few years of war.
But Western militaries and defence contractors love their complex, advanced equipment. BAE doesn't want to sell £20,000 drones because there's not enough money in them. The RN wants their carriers and Type 45s, not a converted freighter stuffed with hundreds of drone and missile launch cells.
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
Floyd triggered a movement to highlight racial injustice in America. What is this movement (if it takes off) seeking to highlight? That black men are allowed to murder white women or something?
What's extraordinary is that the US locks up 2 million people - the highest rate in that world - yet somehow this guy wasn't one of them. It points to a catastrophically broken justice, mental health, poverty system that the UK should do everything possible to avoid replicating.
It's been picked up by MAGA because they are trying to generate a race war. But if anything, it illustrates a system that has failed young black men. Something like one third of that cohort are in prison or on parole, and I'd bet the majority have serious mental health issues.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
“I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.”
At the moment they are not at all softening their stance, in fact number ten choosing to dig themselves deeper into the mire.
From live Grunidan Blog No 10 says Mandelson subject to 'extensive' vetting before appointment as ambassador to US At the post-PMQs lobby briefing the PM’s spokesperson would not discuss in detail what Keir Starmer knew about Peter Mandelson’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein before he appointed him ambassador to Washington. But he stressed that the pre-appointment vetting was “extensive” – implying No 10 did know quite a lot about this.
The spokesperson said:
We have been very clear that the victims of Jeffrey Epstein are at the forefront of our minds, he was a despicable criminal who committed the most heinous crimes and destroyed the lives of so many women and girls. On the appointment process, any candidates for ambassador positions are subject to extensive vetting and background checks by the Foreign Office and Cabinet Office as a matter of course. Asked if Starmer was surprised by the latest revelations, the spokesperson said that Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein “has been a matter of public record for some time and the ambassador himself has repeatedly addressed questions on it”.
Again, mind boggling
This position cannot hold. Even if you accept Mandelson’s claim that he saw nothing and understood nothing, despite several visits to pedo island, and even if you accept that the cringey innuendo laden sexual banter in his ten page love letter to Epstein is all innocent - the fact is Mandelson stayed in Epstein’s house as Epstein’s guest when Epstein was serving time for pedophilia and trafficking
There is no plausible escape from that fact. Mandelson knew all that and still thought it was a great idea to accept hospitality from his best pal, the convicted pedophile Jeff
Mandelson clearly knows that there's worse to come. Quite how he manages to feel he's a suitable representative for our nation and has this seedy trail baffles me. He should obviously resign immediately. If he doesn't then Starmer is going to have to sack him.
I've long thought that Mandelson's activities might be quite newsworthy, and I suspect we may find out soon. A man with deeply suspicious finances in my view.
Perhaps Mandy - master of media manipulation that he is - has only said there is worse to come so that everyone waits with bated breath then eventually loses interest when nothing materializes.
I think I'll go with the rumours (of many years ago) on this one.
That's Badenoch's best PMQs and Starmer is a national embarrassment
Lord Yum Yum must be gone before the State visit. The UK needs a British Ambassador, not a shifty self serving networker. How Starmer orchestrates it will be interesting to see - as what is abundantly clear from today’s PMQs, WHAT CLEARLY MAKES A RESIGNATION MATTER NOW WAS ALREADY KNOWN TO STARMER WHEN HE MADE THE APPOINTMENT. Who predicted the first weeks after the holidays would be such fun politics. Looking back, these weeks, days and hours may be redefining British Politics for a generation.
A Labour Party implosion in the polls with benefit Kemi and the Conservatives most of all.
Yes. Starmer needs to send a clear message that any association with Epstein is beyond the pale. However, for the sake of preserving international relations, perhaps he should wait until after the state visit of that other bloke in the photos.
That's Badenoch's best PMQs and Starmer is a national embarrassment
Lord Yum Yum must be gone before the State visit. The UK needs a British Ambassador, not a shifty self serving networker. How Starmer orchestrates it will be interesting to see - as what is abundantly clear from today’s PMQs, WHAT CLEARLY MAKES A RESIGNATION MATTER NOW WAS ALREADY KNOWN TO STARMER WHEN HE MADE THE APPOINTMENT. Who predicted the first weeks after the holidays would be such fun politics. Looking back, these weeks, days and hours may be redefining British Politics for a generation.
A Labour Party implosion in the polls with benefit Kemi and the Conservatives most of all.
Yes. Starmer needs to send a clear message that any association with Epstein is beyond the pale. However, for the sake of preserving international relations, perhaps he should wait until after the state visit of that other bloke in the photos.
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
Floyd triggered a movement to highlight racial injustice in America. What is this movement (if it takes off) seeking to highlight? That black men are allowed to murder white women or something?
The extraordinary disparities in violent crime, by race
It’s more than that, it’s the attitude of the justice ‘system’ in large cities that shows more compassion for the perpetrator than the victim of crime, and it’s leading to an increasingly lawless country where people just going about their business suddenly end up dead for no reason at all.
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
Floyd triggered a movement to highlight racial injustice in America. What is this movement (if it takes off) seeking to highlight? That black men are allowed to murder white women or something?
The extraordinary disparities in violent crime, by race
Well it seems the race of the victim is also key. So, OK, it's about violence meted out to whites by blacks.
Where do we see this going? What's the endgame? What's the dream we're seeking to realise?
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
“I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.”
At the moment they are not at all softening their stance, in fact number ten choosing to dig themselves deeper into the mire.
From live Grunidan Blog No 10 says Mandelson subject to 'extensive' vetting before appointment as ambassador to US At the post-PMQs lobby briefing the PM’s spokesperson would not discuss in detail what Keir Starmer knew about Peter Mandelson’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein before he appointed him ambassador to Washington. But he stressed that the pre-appointment vetting was “extensive” – implying No 10 did know quite a lot about this.
The spokesperson said:
We have been very clear that the victims of Jeffrey Epstein are at the forefront of our minds, he was a despicable criminal who committed the most heinous crimes and destroyed the lives of so many women and girls. On the appointment process, any candidates for ambassador positions are subject to extensive vetting and background checks by the Foreign Office and Cabinet Office as a matter of course. Asked if Starmer was surprised by the latest revelations, the spokesperson said that Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein “has been a matter of public record for some time and the ambassador himself has repeatedly addressed questions on it”.
Again, mind boggling
This position cannot hold. Even if you accept Mandelson’s claim that he saw nothing and understood nothing, despite several visits to pedo island, and even if you accept that the cringey innuendo laden sexual banter in his ten page love letter to Epstein is all innocent - the fact is Mandelson stayed in Epstein’s house as Epstein’s guest when Epstein was serving time for pedophilia and trafficking
There is no plausible escape from that fact. Mandelson knew all that and still thought it was a great idea to accept hospitality from his best pal, the convicted pedophile Jeff
I'm not sure I've ever seen @Leon , @DavidL and I all on the same page, but this is spot on.
So Putin has concluded (correctly) that he's faced with the weakest most naive and clueless American president in history and is acting accordingly. Dangerous times.
On the other hand, it may be just as well.
A different President might have had us halfway to Leningrad by now.
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
Not a psycho, apparently.
There are 65 homicides per day in the US, 49 firearm related. Why do they only care about 1? There's 1 every 20 minutes, take action that will reduce them all.
That was true of the George Floyd case too.
Floyd was murdered by a policeman. That's why that case stood out. The police are meant to be the ones doing the protecting. I am surprised this needs explaining.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
“I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.”
At the moment they are not at all softening their stance, in fact number ten choosing to dig themselves deeper into the mire.
From live Grunidan Blog No 10 says Mandelson subject to 'extensive' vetting before appointment as ambassador to US At the post-PMQs lobby briefing the PM’s spokesperson would not discuss in detail what Keir Starmer knew about Peter Mandelson’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein before he appointed him ambassador to Washington. But he stressed that the pre-appointment vetting was “extensive” – implying No 10 did know quite a lot about this.
The spokesperson said:
We have been very clear that the victims of Jeffrey Epstein are at the forefront of our minds, he was a despicable criminal who committed the most heinous crimes and destroyed the lives of so many women and girls. On the appointment process, any candidates for ambassador positions are subject to extensive vetting and background checks by the Foreign Office and Cabinet Office as a matter of course. Asked if Starmer was surprised by the latest revelations, the spokesperson said that Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein “has been a matter of public record for some time and the ambassador himself has repeatedly addressed questions on it”.
Again, mind boggling
This position cannot hold. Even if you accept Mandelson’s claim that he saw nothing and understood nothing, despite several visits to pedo island, and even if you accept that the cringey innuendo laden sexual banter in his ten page love letter to Epstein is all innocent - the fact is Mandelson stayed in Epstein’s house as Epstein’s guest when Epstein was serving time for pedophilia and trafficking
There is no plausible escape from that fact. Mandelson knew all that and still thought it was a great idea to accept hospitality from his best pal, the convicted pedophile Jeff
Mandelson clearly knows that there's worse to come. Quite how he manages to feel he's a suitable representative for our nation and has this seedy trail baffles me. He should obviously resign immediately. If he doesn't then Starmer is going to have to sack him.
I've long thought that Mandelson's activities might be quite newsworthy, and I suspect we may find out soon. A man with deeply suspicious finances in my view.
If the story that Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein lasted beyond his original 2008 conviction holds up, then his position is untenable.
Trump himself had dropped Epstein well before that, supposedly after his behaviour towards Mar-a-Lago staff became a matter of concern.
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
Floyd triggered a movement to highlight racial injustice in America. What is this movement (if it takes off) seeking to highlight? That black men are allowed to murder white women or something?
The extraordinary disparities in violent crime, by race
It’s more than that, it’s the attitude of the justice ‘system’ in large cities that shows more compassion for the perpetrator than the victim of crime, and it’s leading to an increasingly lawless country where people just going about their business suddenly end up dead for no reason at all.
That and the video. Don’t watch the video.
We have an example right here on this thread
A commenter goes straight to “let’s feel sorry for young black men” without even mentioning the victim
What am I missing ? Wouldn’t it be clear to anyone that making a deal with a paedo should be completely unacceptable, staying in his apartment while he’s in prison is similarly totally unacceptable. How the fxck do you get the job of ambassador to the US with all that already known ?
It is mind boggling
And in the FT Mandelson himself is quoted as saying “there is probably much more to come out”
For me the killer is, as you say, the fact he stayed in Epstein’s NYC house even as Epstein was in jail for underage sex and trafficking
There’s no way around that. You can’t say you didn’t know. You knew. And did it anyway
Surely toast
Yup, the veneer of plausible deniability has gone. I also saw people defending Mandy on the basis that he wouldn't be interested in the underage girls that Epstein was procuring, but is it difficult to imagine that he wouldn't also be able to procure underage boys too?!
Epstein had quite a few famously gay guests. Eg the actor and disgraced sex offender Kevin Spacey. I presume that he was attracted to pedo island by the yummy yum yum omelettes
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
Floyd triggered a movement to highlight racial injustice in America. What is this movement (if it takes off) seeking to highlight? That black men are allowed to murder white women or something?
The extraordinary disparities in violent crime, by race
It’s more than that, it’s the attitude of the justice ‘system’ in large cities that shows more compassion for the perpetrator than the victim of crime, and it’s leading to an increasingly lawless country where people just going about their business suddenly end up dead for no reason at all.
That and the video. Don’t watch the video.
C'mon the race angle is key. Let's not be mealy-mouthed about it.
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
Floyd triggered a movement to highlight racial injustice in America. What is this movement (if it takes off) seeking to highlight? That black men are allowed to murder white women or something?
The extraordinary disparities in violent crime, by race
It’s more than that, it’s the attitude of the justice ‘system’ in large cities that shows more compassion for the perpetrator than the victim of crime, and it’s leading to an increasingly lawless country where people just going about their business suddenly end up dead for no reason at all.
That and the video. Don’t watch the video.
We have an example right here on this thread
A commenter goes straight to “let’s feel sorry for young black men” without even mentioning the victim
As did the Mayor of Charlotte.
It’s also the entire US “mainstream” media.
The NY Times ran this headline yesterday, their first mention of the case.
So Putin has concluded (correctly) that he's faced with the weakest most naive and clueless American president in history and is acting accordingly. Dangerous times.
On the other hand, it may be just as well.
A different President might have had us halfway to Leningrad by now.
On Mandelson it is simply unacceptable for him to continue as our Ambassador to the US
The revelations this week of Trump, Mandelson, Clinton and others 50th birthday cards to Epstein, with the accompanying text, shames our Nation and that someone as close to Epstein should even be considered to represent us in America
Trump should also fall on his 'disgusting' revelations but, sadly, we cannot do anything about him but Mandelson is our problem and we can.
Labour mps should tell Starmer he has to demand his resignation irrespective of how it may compromise Starmer
Every Minister appearing in the media is simply going to be overwhelmed by questions about Mandelson's future
Futhermore, how can he be present at Trumps 'state' visit in the light of these revelations
Indeed, if he had an decency he would simply resign now
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
Floyd triggered a movement to highlight racial injustice in America. What is this movement (if it takes off) seeking to highlight? That black men are allowed to murder white women or something?
The extraordinary disparities in violent crime, by race
It’s more than that, it’s the attitude of the justice ‘system’ in large cities that shows more compassion for the perpetrator than the victim of crime, and it’s leading to an increasingly lawless country where people just going about their business suddenly end up dead for no reason at all.
That and the video. Don’t watch the video.
C'mon the race angle is key. Let's not be mealy-mouthed about it.
Yes, the murderer made reference to the race of the victim on the CCTV camera audio.
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
Wouldn’t they be better starting a fund for basic treatment for the psychotically ill?
It's great how the MAGA crowd have gone from hating Ukrainians as corrupt Biden-supporters who started a war against Russia to loving them. Maybe the money would be best sent to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What's the political angle here? My understanding was that this was tragic-random-killing example #22,386 this year in America. Is there more to it?
It was a horrific, random killing, but has now become massively politicised by the right.
George Floyd was a thuggish black career criminal who was on fentanyl when he died
This is an entirely innocent white Ukrainian refugee who herself was killed by a black career criminal who has been released 14 times by inept liberal judges
Both terrible deaths were filmed, in hideous detail. The first one caused a massive moral reckoning and massive angry riots, the second was buried as deep as possible by liberal media and only emerged because Musk owns X and people can spread it there
She will now become a white George Floyd
Floyd triggered a movement to highlight racial injustice in America. What is this movement (if it takes off) seeking to highlight? That black men are allowed to murder white women or something?
The extraordinary disparities in violent crime, by race
It’s more than that, it’s the attitude of the justice ‘system’ in large cities that shows more compassion for the perpetrator than the victim of crime, and it’s leading to an increasingly lawless country where people just going about their business suddenly end up dead for no reason at all.
That and the video. Don’t watch the video.
C'mon the race angle is key. Let's not be mealy-mouthed about it.
Yes, the murderer made reference to the race of the victim on the CCTV camera audio.
I'm talking about why it's being viralled. The aim is to fire up whites against blacks.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 33m It’s not possible to overstate how much trouble Starmer’s now in on Mandelson, having backed him in the House.
Hodges is wrong yet again, of course it is possible. How about "Starmer will not just have to resign, but will be found guilty of treason, hung, drawn and quartered, sent to hell for eternity, and be forced to become a Man United fan". I suspect that overstates it quite substantially.
It's not Starmer resignation but Mandelson that is on the line but Starmer prevarication is not helping him at all
Sure Mandelson will probably have to go. It makes almost no long term difference to Starmer. His fate rests on ending asylum hotels, a big reduction in the boats combined with the fluctuations of the global economy, not this.
Not quite sure this is right. How about this progression; could it be where the media/opposition go?
1) Mandelson had a significant relationship with Epstein both before and after he went to prison for sex offences.including post prison business consultancy. (This looks certain)
2) M must have been fully vetted before the ambassadorial appointment. (This must be true)
3) Starmer must have been advised of the relevant facts. (This must be true, especially as M has form from the past, but no doubt attempts can be made to fudge it)
4) If 1-3 above are true and established, then M's appointment is a potential resignation issue for Starmer.
What do others think?
Spot on. The resignation of Mandelson a mere formality now - what the media and opposition leaders are chasing is the resignation of Starmer over this. He was very careful not to tell porkies at PMQ, but at expense of making it crystal clear he likely knew all this even more besides when making the appointment.
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP. He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him? Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
Has Nigel been calling for PM's head?
Recent news report:
Nigel Farage, an ally of Trump and the leader of Reform UK, has recently defended those who had dealings with Epstein in an interview with PoliticsHome, saying: “How could anybody in American high society in New York in the 80s and 90s not have had links with Epstein?
“His business empire his social empire, his tentacle went very, very deep through American society. So the idea that you’re guilty by association because you knew Epstein – I mean you would put the whole of America in jail who were prominent people in business or media in the 1980s.”
Comments
A different President might have had us halfway to Leningrad by now.
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/foreignaffairs/20250910/detained-korean-workers-departure-from-us-delayed
..Seoul has stressed that the workers will leave under the rules of voluntary departure, which do not carry the same legal consequences as deportation. Nevertheless, U.S. immigration law allows for bans to be imposed depending on the length of the unlawful stay, so the possibility of individual penalties cannot be ruled out.
The situation became more confusing when some detainees signed forms early on that included a $1,000 payment for voluntary departure to avoid a 10-year entry ban.
It is possible that the U.S. authorities may regard those who sign the forms as admitting the illegality of their stay and later ban them from reentering.
A lawyer helping the workers in Georgia told Yonhap News that Korean consular staff learned about these forms being signed and made the paperwork invalid, which only aggravated confusion among the workers.
The debate intensified after U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem said “they will be deported,” a remark widely seen as blurring the line between two very different legal outcomes and raising fears that it could affect future visa screenings.
Foreign Minister Cho Hyun, who was in Washington for talks with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, informed lawmakers prior to his trip that the two governments had reached a “broad agreement” on avoiding reentry problems. “We are working to ensure citizens are treated as voluntary departures and are not disadvantaged later,” he said.
However, his meeting with Rubio was postponed from Tuesday to Wednesday (local time), and the delay raised concerns that the two countries had not finalized an agreement on the reentry issue..
Thought not. The Ambassador is clearly an important source of Ferraro Roche but other than that....
See the numerous people who were sane, intelligent and capable. Then progressed to the IQ of lettuce. Such as Giuliani.
You heard it here first from BJO in 2021 although Jnr didn't believe me.
Guess who has turned out to be a shite PM you heard it constantly from BJO from 2020 to 2025 although SKS fans didn't believe me.
I could go on
When Starmer appointed him ambassador, we already knew Mandelson had a close relationship with Epstein both before and after Epstein got nicked. The only new information is a bit of extra cringe from Epstein's birthday card.
We also already knew that every time M gets appointed to something it ends up with him resigning in disgrace.
And that's just the public knowledge - never mind the results of any due diligence.
Starmer should have some very difficult explaining to do about what on earth induced him to give M the job - it probably should be a resignation matter, but doubtless he'll blame someone else (like usual).
He hid behind “due process was followed” questions can be asked about that due process. Indeed LOTO asked for it to be published in full ASAP.
He hid behind “elements of due process that are strictly private” which he won’t get away with for it inevitably means he can’t close off “what did you know and when.”
Can Starmer latch on to something “new” to everyone for the sacking that saves him?
Is there anything new, something substantial not known during due process Starmer didn’t know? Otherwise Starmer is finished now by this “fluffy bed robe cover up”
I think the first signs of Number Ten softening its support will come from “number 10 spokesperson or source” look there for possible backing away from Mandleson.
Same design firm who did the Great North run medals?
https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1965728696771494158
At the moment they are not at all softening their stance, in fact number ten choosing to dig themselves deeper into the mire.
From live Grunidan Blog
No 10 says Mandelson subject to 'extensive' vetting before appointment as ambassador to US
At the post-PMQs lobby briefing the PM’s spokesperson would not discuss in detail what Keir Starmer knew about Peter Mandelson’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein before he appointed him ambassador to Washington. But he stressed that the pre-appointment vetting was “extensive” – implying No 10 did know quite a lot about this.
The spokesperson said:
We have been very clear that the victims of Jeffrey Epstein are at the forefront of our minds, he was a despicable criminal who committed the most heinous crimes and destroyed the lives of so many women and girls.
On the appointment process, any candidates for ambassador positions are subject to extensive vetting and background checks by the Foreign Office and Cabinet Office as a matter of course.
Asked if Starmer was surprised by the latest revelations, the spokesperson said that Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein “has been a matter of public record for some time and the ambassador himself has repeatedly addressed questions on it”.
But that wouldn’t cost trillions and have a 23,000 page requirement.
Recent news report:
Nigel Farage, an ally of Trump and the leader of Reform UK, has recently defended those who had dealings with Epstein in an interview with PoliticsHome, saying: “How could anybody in American high society in New York in the 80s and 90s not have had links with Epstein?
“His business empire his social empire, his tentacle went very, very deep through American society. So the idea that you’re guilty by association because you knew Epstein – I mean you would put the whole of America in jail who were prominent people in business or media in the 1980s.”
I understand, for example, that Russia is now flying improved Shahed drones at higher altitudes until they reach their target. This is because they're too cheap to waste expensive air defence missiles on, so they don't need to fly low to avoid traditional air defence missiles. Flying high puts them out of range of Gepard-style measures. This would mean you would have to station the Gepards/equivalents to defend particular sites, rather than to defend a border - it massively increases the number of those systems that you need.
Ukraine was said to be massively increasing the production of interceptor drones a while ago, but I haven't since heard much about them. I wonder whether Russian innovations have made them much less effective than hoped.
Turns out his half brother also shot dead a white man and his dad is a career criminal as well
Bad blood or what
7 days ago I called for the DPM to be sacked you gave her your full backing. You were too weak to sack her.
This week I call on Epsteins best pal (not Trump) to be sacked are you going to give him your full backing only for him to be gone by next week
The silence on the Red Tories benches was deafening.
Putin to be forced to act in EastEnders, and Labarov in a glee show.
What took you so long, Spartacus?
2) Liking pizza with fruit on it
3) Excessively close ties to Oxford university
4) Shoes too quiet
The divisions and damage caused by Brexit
Truss's budget
The re-election of Trump
The indulgence of Putin by useful idiots
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that one of his hobbies is breeding Chinese fruit bats.
This position cannot hold. Even if you accept Mandelson’s claim that he saw nothing and understood nothing, despite several visits to pedo island, and even if you accept that the cringey innuendo laden sexual banter in his ten page love letter to Epstein is all innocent - the fact is Mandelson stayed in Epstein’s house as Epstein’s guest when Epstein was serving time for pedophilia and trafficking
There is no plausible escape from that fact. Mandelson knew all that and still thought it was a great idea to accept hospitality from his best pal, the convicted pedophile Jeff
It really is remarkable how much trade is still going on.
In peacetime it’s all about maintaining the capabilities, which is why we have things such as steelworks and chemicals factories ending up being nationalised. The big boondoggle that takes a decade, goes way over budget but pushes technology, let’s call it F-35, is a great example of peacetime procurement.
In wartime, on the other hand, you first of all need ammo, absolutely fcukloads of ammo. Then you need even more ammo, because it gets used faster than anyone could possibly imagine. Then start on making last-generation weapons, because you know they work and there should be a production line that can be dusted off. Also set up a bunch of Skunkworks / DARPA teams to play around with newer technology, such as the modified toy drones that have worked so well in the current war in Ukraine. Once they realised they could not just use small drones to spot artillery, but actually use them to drop grenades on tanks, this war changed completely. The Soviet tank design has a fundamental flaw which makes it very susceptible to attack from directly above, often blowing up the stored ammunition from a small grenade strike.
It’s always said that you should be planning for the next war rather than the last one, but there’s an awful lot we can all learn from the Ukranians once this war is over.
I'm only half joking...
I've long thought that Mandelson's activities might be quite newsworthy, and I suspect we may find out soon. A man with deeply suspicious finances in my view.
SPAAG is perfect to deal with drones as a local threat. SPAAG back in style….
But Western militaries and defence contractors love their complex, advanced equipment. BAE doesn't want to sell £20,000 drones because there's not enough money in them. The RN wants their carriers and Type 45s, not a converted freighter stuffed with hundreds of drone and missile launch cells.
It's been picked up by MAGA because they are trying to generate a race war. But if anything, it illustrates a system that has failed young black men. Something like one third of that cohort are in prison or on parole, and I'd bet the majority have serious mental health issues.
Allies of Bridget Phillipson think she will comfortably sail past 80 nominations today, making her the front runner.
A two horse race looks likely with Phillipson versus Lucy Powell.
Many dissatisfied with Labour’s direction now lining up with Powell. Next results coming 7ish.
That and the video. Don’t watch the video.
Where do we see this going? What's the endgame? What's the dream we're seeking to realise?
Mandelson must go.
Trump himself had dropped Epstein well before that, supposedly after his behaviour towards Mar-a-Lago staff became a matter of concern.
A commenter goes straight to “let’s feel sorry for young black men” without even mentioning the victim
NEW THREAD
It’s also the entire US “mainstream” media.
The NY Times ran this headline yesterday, their first mention of the case.
On Mandelson it is simply unacceptable for him to continue as our Ambassador to the US
The revelations this week of Trump, Mandelson, Clinton and others 50th birthday cards to Epstein, with the accompanying text, shames our Nation and that someone as close to Epstein should even be considered to represent us in America
Trump should also fall on his 'disgusting' revelations but, sadly, we cannot do anything about him but Mandelson is our problem and we can.
Labour mps should tell Starmer he has to demand his resignation irrespective of how it may compromise Starmer
Every Minister appearing in the media is simply going to be overwhelmed by questions about Mandelson's future
Futhermore, how can he be present at Trumps 'state' visit in the light of these revelations
Indeed, if he had an decency he would simply resign now