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Like Donald Trump, Reform voters will sell out Ukraine – politicalbetting.com

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,181
    eek said:

    Essence of Reformism is "don't tax me to spend money on them, tax them to spend money on me".

    Every party does it a bit, because it's human nature to think that. But the Uniparty and its voters tend to draw the line in one place, and Faragists draw it somewhere else.

    And because "me" and "them" are different for everyone, Nigel will have a rotten time if he ever has to take responsibility.

    Well to be fair Labours/the lefts line is ‘tax the rich to pay for everything’, the Tories is cut taxes and don’t pay for anything and the Lib Dems, well no one really knows.
    Those two are at least coherent from the point of view of arithmetic. Which is why Hunt's NI cuts funded by mystery spending cuts were so problematic.
    Correction - are now so problematic.

    We go back to the question of worst chancellor of the past 50 years and I think I could make a very good case for Hunt being that person
    Sigh. My weekly reminder that Hunt's budget which cut NI actually increased taxes overall. It is a complete if persistent myth that this created some sort of black hole in the accounts that wasn't already there. What it did was it reduced the imbalance between earned income and unearned income to a modest extent. Which was a step in the right direction, if nowhere near far enough.

    Hunt was trying to do an Osborne by reducing the deficit by small enough amounts each year to keep the economy growing, albeit modestly. It is a rare skill to be able to do that and requires more than a fair share of luck.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,563

    An example of the Tory fight back being laughed out of town. Read the comments:

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1958419898117353676

    She's going to end up getting blamed for the HMOs.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,997
    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A stopped clock moment from Rupert Lowe

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1958433737831600152?s=61

    Pity the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system - decades ago, admittedly, but still. My father, who had professional involvement, was not happy about it at the time.

    But a sinner that repenteth, and all that.
    Well he’s not a Tory, I was glad of my apprenticeship in 1982.

    Apprenticeships are a truly good thing.
    He was a party member till 1993, though!

    I entirely agree re apprenticeships (together with the shift of CFEs and polys to universities). Dad was a teacher so was concerned to help his pupils find apprenticeships.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,801
    Foxy said:

    The interesting thing about the poll is how aligned Lab, Tory and Lib Dem’s are and different Reform are. Just goes to show Reform are not normal.

    I do wonder how soft their polling is. Are these leads illusory? Will their supporters bother to vote?

    The way in which Reform voters so often stick out as different on this sort of poll would tend to suggest that it will be unlikely they would drift back to support other parties, but it's possible they won't bother to vote, or that the polls are over-representing an angry online demographic.

    Recent votes would tend to suggest the first option is most likely.
    Only a third of Reform voters strongly opposed the deployment, with 37% in favour, so there is the possibility of peeling off some voters to other parties, leaving a rump of Putinist fascists.
    There are always people at the margins, but consistent poll results suggests that the number of Reform supporters at the margins is much lower than we have seen with other parties in the past, suggesting that the number of people who can be peeled off is also much lower.

    All other things being equal, we should expect Reform support to be more sticky than with the historical parallels we use to guide us.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A stopped clock moment from Rupert Lowe

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1958433737831600152?s=61

    Pity the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system - decades ago, admittedly, but still. My father, who had professional involvement, was not happy about it at the time.

    But a sinner that repenteth, and all that.
    Well he’s not a Tory, I was glad of my apprenticeship in 1982.

    Apprenticeships are a truly good thing.
    He was a party member till 1993, though!

    I entirely agree re apprenticeships (together with the shift of CFEs and polys to universities). Dad was a teacher so was concerned to help his pupils find apprenticeships.
    Mine was a four year indentured apprentice. Two years in a training school and two years going around various departments. Lucas Electrical.

    You don’t realise at the time how much you learn and pick up just by being in a department with other people.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,302
    edited August 21
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    All the government has to do is to outbid the market in each area and, lo & behold, the owners will turn out their existing tenants ASAP. So all those homeless people will be local people and thus of no concern to the government.
    And the councils problem too.

    Durham are doing something about making it tougher to turn a house into an HMO, primarily aimed at student conversions. There’s already been some rejected in Gilesgate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjwnjd76e98o
    There has been rejections for a couple of years when it comes to Gilesgate. It was why my daughter managed to buy her house there.

    Interestingly 3 house have recently gone up for rent in her cul-de-sac. The 2 family homes were rented in hours, the student house is seeking 2.5 times the other houses and has zilch interest.
    Yes - there has been Nimby politics around students in particular for many years. Nottingham and Oxford, for example, introduced policies around 2010 aiming at forcing them into institutional accommodation. Things like Article 4 directions and zealous (sometimes over zealous and nitpicking) regulation.

    Students are exempt from Council Tax, so local authorities get £1500-£4000 per annum for every one they keep as a family home.

    But University run of affiliated institutional accommodation is more expensive for the student.
    University accommodation is over £10,000 a year in most cases
    Whilst if we are talking high quality modern shared student houses it will be 20-40% less, very roughly. Say £120-170 per week on a 48 week contract - ish, which would depending on local market include utilities and internet. That's just based on a quick top slice look.

    Anyhoo - I'm offski. Have a good day.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,522
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A stopped clock moment from Rupert Lowe

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1958433737831600152?s=61

    Pity the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system - decades ago, admittedly, but still. My father, who had professional involvement, was not happy about it at the time.

    But a sinner that repenteth, and all that.
    If you think the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system, then the SNP completely blew it up in Scotland to the detriment of so many young people including those with disabilities or special needs.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,648
    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    The former flags are largely on council property, stret lighting, etc. etc. If you leave them up, it'll be PA flags, Happy Dene Villas Housing Estate flags, Joe's Used Motors flags, etc. etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv76zzze47o
    That’s Worcestershire not Brum. I’d struggle to walk to the Blues ground from there although I knew someone who got a lift to Derby, didn’t have one back so ended up walking most of the way from Derby to Sutton C

    The Palestine flags in Small Heath were/are predominantly on street furniture.
    Wow!

    Wythall and Hollywood get a name check for flying the flag of St George. How times change. In the fifteen years I lived in Wythall (until 1977) and the concurrent ten years I was at school in Hollywood I never saw a flag of St George. I know this because when I moved to Herefordshire I was shocked to see there were quite a few. They were flying as a demonstration of Herefordshire people's antithesis to the neighbouring Welsh. Why fly them now? Wythall is still at least fifty miles from Wales.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,913

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    The former flags are largely on council property, stret lighting, etc. etc. If you leave them up, it'll be PA flags, Happy Dene Villas Housing Estate flags, Joe's Used Motors flags, etc. etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv76zzze47o
    That’s Worcestershire not Brum. I’d struggle to walk to the Blues ground from there although I knew someone who got a lift to Derby, didn’t have one back so ended up walking most of the way from Derby to Sutton C

    The Palestine flags in Small Heath were/are predominantly on street furniture.
    Wow!

    Wythall and Hollywood get a name check for flying the flag of St George. How times change. In the fifteen years I lived in Wythall (until 1977) and the concurrent ten years I was at school in Hollywood I never saw a flag of St George. I know this because when I moved to Herefordshire I was shocked to see there were quite a few. They were flying as a demonstration of Herefordshire people's antithesis to the neighbouring Welsh. Why fly them now? Wythall is still at least fifty miles from Wales.
    It’s people still ecstatic about the Lionesses winning the Euros. Don’t be such a buzzkill.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,801

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Landlords would be mad not to take it. As for the renters, oh dear how sad never mind. Many will support the asylum seekers anyway so they can live with the consequences of it.

    Durham council are consulting on HMO’s at the moment with a view to making it tougher to convert a home into an HMO. More driven by students than anything else as County Durham is not really overflowing with these asylum seekers unlike Gateshead, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough who have over 8 times (proportionally) the amount of these men.
    The thing I find spectacular is how bad the deals for block booking the hotels are.

    We are talking about places that are going back in condition. A bit of digging would probably reveal poor occupancy. 100% guaranteed occupancy should have reduced the price to about £20 per room, per night. Especially since all the facilities apart from the kitchen were to be shuttered.

    Bet they will be paying hundreds per person per night in HMOs…
    Makes you wonder about facilitation fees and the like. Who is signing off on these contracts and how confident are we that money is not being skimmed off?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,648
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    The former flags are largely on council property, stret lighting, etc. etc. If you leave them up, it'll be PA flags, Happy Dene Villas Housing Estate flags, Joe's Used Motors flags, etc. etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv76zzze47o
    That’s Worcestershire not Brum. I’d struggle to walk to the Blues ground from there although I knew someone who got a lift to Derby, didn’t have one back so ended up walking most of the way from Derby to Sutton C

    The Palestine flags in Small Heath were/are predominantly on street furniture.
    Wow!

    Wythall and Hollywood get a name check for flying the flag of St George. How times change. In the fifteen years I lived in Wythall (until 1977) and the concurrent ten years I was at school in Hollywood I never saw a flag of St George. I know this because when I moved to Herefordshire I was shocked to see there were quite a few. They were flying as a demonstration of Herefordshire people's antithesis to the neighbouring Welsh. Why fly them now? Wythall is still at least fifty miles from Wales.
    It’s people still ecstatic about the Lionesses winning the Euros. Don’t be such a buzzkill.
    A fair point!
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,522
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Essence of Reformism is "don't tax me to spend money on them, tax them to spend money on me".

    Every party does it a bit, because it's human nature to think that. But the Uniparty and its voters tend to draw the line in one place, and Faragists draw it somewhere else.

    And because "me" and "them" are different for everyone, Nigel will have a rotten time if he ever has to take responsibility.

    Well to be fair Labours/the lefts line is ‘tax the rich to pay for everything’, the Tories is cut taxes and don’t pay for anything and the Lib Dems, well no one really knows.
    Those two are at least coherent from the point of view of arithmetic. Which is why Hunt's NI cuts funded by mystery spending cuts were so problematic.
    Correction - are now so problematic.

    We go back to the question of worst chancellor of the past 50 years and I think I could make a very good case for Hunt being that person
    Sigh. My weekly reminder that Hunt's budget which cut NI actually increased taxes overall. It is a complete if persistent myth that this created some sort of black hole in the accounts that wasn't already there. What it did was it reduced the imbalance between earned income and unearned income to a modest extent. Which was a step in the right direction, if nowhere near far enough.

    Hunt was trying to do an Osborne by reducing the deficit by small enough amounts each year to keep the economy growing, albeit modestly. It is a rare skill to be able to do that and requires more than a fair share of luck.
    Agreed, and you don't do this by talking down the UK economy first and then imposing tax raises that are guaranteed to have a negative impact on economic growth and unemployment figures.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,370
    edited August 21
    Guardian has bleat-piece on poor Epping asylum seeker who feels he is being treated like a criminal

    Then he says “the only criminal thing I did was come over here illegally on a boat”

    Then he says “I had no other option”

    Right after that he says he previously worked as a dishwasher in Austria

    Presumably this is the most heart-wrenching “asylum seeker” the Guardian could find in Epping. Which says something


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/aug/21/were-seen-as-criminals-epping-hotel-residents-facing-limbo-after-say-they-want-to-work
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,437
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    You'd think they'd want to do something to oppose that SMO, then.
    No no, not THAT imperialism.
    Literally the only imperialist nation anxious to send their troops into Ukraine is Russia.
    Oh, and N Korea, if they count (Joseon did after all style itself as an empire).

    The includes the modern "imperialists" of the US, and the old style European imperialists - the UK; France; Germany and even Poland.

    Dura's comment is either his usual high grade satire, or delusional.
    Genuinely hard to distinguish.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,779
    edited August 21
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    The former flags are largely on council property, stret lighting, etc. etc. If you leave them up, it'll be PA flags, Happy Dene Villas Housing Estate flags, Joe's Used Motors flags, etc. etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv76zzze47o
    That’s Worcestershire not Brum. I’d struggle to walk to the Blues ground from there although I knew someone who got a lift to Derby, didn’t have one back so ended up walking most of the way from Derby to Sutton C

    The Palestine flags in Small Heath were/are predominantly on street furniture.
    Wow!

    Wythall and Hollywood get a name check for flying the flag of St George. How times change. In the fifteen years I lived in Wythall (until 1977) and the concurrent ten years I was at school in Hollywood I never saw a flag of St George. I know this because when I moved to Herefordshire I was shocked to see there were quite a few. They were flying as a demonstration of Herefordshire people's antithesis to the neighbouring Welsh. Why fly them now? Wythall is still at least fifty miles from Wales.
    It’s people still ecstatic about the Lionesses winning the Euros. Don’t be such a buzzkill.
    Surely fans prepping for the hugely exciting Women's Rugby WC and whatever stupid marketing name the England team call themselves.
    Names will be made as the BBC keeps bleating.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,648
    fitalass said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A stopped clock moment from Rupert Lowe

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1958433737831600152?s=61

    Pity the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system - decades ago, admittedly, but still. My father, who had professional involvement, was not happy about it at the time.

    But a sinner that repenteth, and all that.
    If you think the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system, then the SNP completely blew it up in Scotland to the detriment of so many young people including those with disabilities or special needs.
    My hatred over the decades for the Tories is mitigated somewhat by the fact it was the Blair Government that closed Remploy down.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,913

    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    The former flags are largely on council property, stret lighting, etc. etc. If you leave them up, it'll be PA flags, Happy Dene Villas Housing Estate flags, Joe's Used Motors flags, etc. etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv76zzze47o
    That’s Worcestershire not Brum. I’d struggle to walk to the Blues ground from there although I knew someone who got a lift to Derby, didn’t have one back so ended up walking most of the way from Derby to Sutton C

    The Palestine flags in Small Heath were/are predominantly on street furniture.
    Wow!

    Wythall and Hollywood get a name check for flying the flag of St George. How times change. In the fifteen years I lived in Wythall (until 1977) and the concurrent ten years I was at school in Hollywood I never saw a flag of St George. I know this because when I moved to Herefordshire I was shocked to see there were quite a few. They were flying as a demonstration of Herefordshire people's antithesis to the neighbouring Welsh. Why fly them now? Wythall is still at least fifty miles from Wales.
    It’s people still ecstatic about the Lionesses winning the Euros. Don’t be such a buzzkill.
    Surely fans prepping for the hugely exciting Women's Rugby WC and whatever stupid marketing name the England team call themselves.
    Names will be made as the BBC keeps bleating.
    The Red Rosesses.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,075
    edited August 21
    I quite like seeing flags flying. You notice it quite a lot in European countries on public buildings. Here the flying of the Union Jack and Cross of St George became a negative thing after the use of it by the BNP and football thugs in the 70s onwards. Sometime ago that stain finally disappeared. I hope it isn't going to return by making this political. I want to see the flags without thinking those flying them are racists.

    Interestingly a couple of years ago while in New England we met a Californian couple who were surprised by the number of Stars and Stripes on houses. This surprised me because I thought it was common in the USA. They said it had been, but in California less now so because of Trump embracing the flag. Obviously a California thing because New England isn't exactly Trump territory and there were loads there still. I was however surprised by the level of pride flags and black lives matter signs on shops. It was very common.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,370
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    This will end Labour, possibly forever
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,437

    We need to stop spending money on hotels and instead spend more money on judges and lawyers to get through the backlog and either (a) permit asylum so they can start working, or (b) deport.

    Isn't that essentially this government's policy ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,687
    Leon said:

    Guardian has bleat-piece on poor Epping asylum seeker who feels he is being treated like a criminal

    Then he says “the only criminal thing I did was come over here illegally on a boat”

    Then he says “I had no other option”

    Right after that he says he previously worked as a dishwasher in Austria

    Presumably this is the most heart-wrenching “asylum seeker” the Guardian could find in Epping. Which says something


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/aug/21/were-seen-as-criminals-epping-hotel-residents-facing-limbo-after-say-they-want-to-work

    There are some genuine asylum seekers who have fled the Taliban etc but clearly some economic migrants have got through amongst them too
  • Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    You'd think they'd want to do something to oppose that SMO, then.
    No no, not THAT imperialism.
    Literally the only imperialist nation anxious to send their troops into Ukraine is Russia.
    Oh, and N Korea, if they count (Joseon did after all style itself as an empire).

    The includes the modern "imperialists" of the US, and the old style European imperialists - the UK; France; Germany and even Poland.

    Dura's comment is either his usual high grade satire, or delusional.
    Genuinely hard to distinguish.
    No, I think he's correct that a lot of Greens/ Corbynites do think that.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,801
    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    Many already are. In my parents’ village in Warwickshire the old Manor House on the hill (beautiful spot, used to be a training centre, then a hospitality venue - sister’s wedding reception was there) has been an asylum reception centre for a few years.

    The residents are a mix of the outgoing and enthusiastic, and the depressed and introverted. My parents volunteer there and have got to know people the, like the Iranian family with a girl who appears to be a child genius, who cooked them a slap up Persian feast or the flamboyant Sudanese man, who they’re convinced is gay but hasn’t said so, who helps out with the church gardening.

    Other residents scarcely show their faces and seem deeply depressed. It’s a sort of gilded prison, far from anyone they know. Being a refugee seems to be an extrovert’s game.
    Proportionally there are far more in deprived areas than in areas like the one you describe.

    It needs balancing out.

    Middlesbrough, Gateshead and Hartlepool all have circa 45 per 100,000 people. Far higher than the leafy shires.
    If it were up to me they would almost all be here in inner London. Largest population, most diverse already, least likelihood of local resistance, closest to the diaspora communities, most job opportunities. I’m not sure quite why governments seem so keen on dispersion.
    Two reasons for the government to go for dispersion.

    It should be cheaper, because you send them to where the housing is cheapest.

    It's a purposefully punitive measure to send people a long way from existing sources of community support, in the hope of reducing the pull factor for further people to follow them. A lot of of the apparently illogical ways in which the system are run can best be understood as attempts to make the process as unpleasant as possible for the people going through it, in the hope that they will tell people back home how mean the British are.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,437
    Taz said:

    stodge said:

    As for Ukraine, as part of some form of international peacekeeping force (minus the Americans), I've little objection in principle to a British presence on the ground in Ukraine.

    The notion of Brazilian, Indian and Kenyan troops patrolling Donetsk in the depths of winter is not without a certain wry amusement but the first question is going to be who will pay for this force - I suspect it won't be Ukraine or Russia (though it should be). I can't see America stumping up so it'll be the Europeans who will have to fork out as I suspect it will be a primarily European force (it shouldn't be).


    Now this from Politico USA:
    Pentagon’s top policy official told a small group of European allies Tuesday night that the U.S. plans to play a minimal role in any Ukraine security guarantees,

    “There’s the dawning reality that this will be Europe making this happen on the ground,” said a NATO diplomat who was briefed on the talks. “The U.S. is not fully committed to anything.”

    “I don’t know where that leaves us,” said one of the European officials. “Pretty much back to where we were in the spring with the coalition of the willing.”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1958428810870690253?s=61

    Exactly where we've been since Trump was elected.
    Quite why they thought this would change is a mystery.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,075

    fitalass said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A stopped clock moment from Rupert Lowe

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1958433737831600152?s=61

    Pity the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system - decades ago, admittedly, but still. My father, who had professional involvement, was not happy about it at the time.

    But a sinner that repenteth, and all that.
    If you think the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system, then the SNP completely blew it up in Scotland to the detriment of so many young people including those with disabilities or special needs.
    My hatred over the decades for the Tories is mitigated somewhat by the fact it was the Blair Government that closed Remploy down.
    I wasn't happy either, but for selfish reasons; they were customers of mine.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,687
    Conservative, Labour and LD voters may support deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine even if Reform voters don't. However none of that means anything unless Russia and Ukraine agree a peace deal to be enforced
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,422
    Nigelb said:

    We need to stop spending money on hotels and instead spend more money on judges and lawyers to get through the backlog and either (a) permit asylum so they can start working, or (b) deport.

    Isn't that essentially this government's policy ?
    Exactly, as opposed to stopping spending money on asylum application processing and instead spending money on hotels* to house the rapidly increasing number of unprocessed asylum seekers which was the policy under the previous government. *including designating that spending as "foreign aid".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,690
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Essence of Reformism is "don't tax me to spend money on them, tax them to spend money on me".

    Every party does it a bit, because it's human nature to think that. But the Uniparty and its voters tend to draw the line in one place, and Faragists draw it somewhere else.

    And because "me" and "them" are different for everyone, Nigel will have a rotten time if he ever has to take responsibility.

    Well to be fair Labours/the lefts line is ‘tax the rich to pay for everything’, the Tories is cut taxes and don’t pay for anything and the Lib Dems, well no one really knows.
    Those two are at least coherent from the point of view of arithmetic. Which is why Hunt's NI cuts funded by mystery spending cuts were so problematic.
    Correction - are now so problematic.

    We go back to the question of worst chancellor of the past 50 years and I think I could make a very good case for Hunt being that person
    Sigh. My weekly reminder that Hunt's budget which cut NI actually increased taxes overall. It is a complete if persistent myth that this created some sort of black hole in the accounts that wasn't already there. What it did was it reduced the imbalance between earned income and unearned income to a modest extent. Which was a step in the right direction, if nowhere near far enough.

    Hunt was trying to do an Osborne by reducing the deficit by small enough amounts each year to keep the economy growing, albeit modestly. It is a rare skill to be able to do that and requires more than a fair share of luck.
    Surely you should be happy then with the modest growth of 1% in H1 of this year then?

    What Hunt did to fiddle the figures was to not do a spending review, so he could ignore the cost pressures that he knew were there. It was straightforward deception in order to salt the earth.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,603
    In "Go Woke, Go broke" news:

    "Target CEO steps down as company faces weak sales and customer boycott
    Brian Cornell to be replaced next year as retailer navigates boycott over its scaling back of DEI initiatives"

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/aug/20/target-ceo-steps-down

    Oh.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,638
    kjh said:

    I quite like seeing flags flying. You notice it quite a lot in European countries on public buildings. Here the flying of the Union Jack and Cross of St George became a negative thing after the use of it by the BNP and football thugs in the 70s onwards. Sometime ago that stain finally disappeared. I hope it isn't going to return by making this political. I want to see the flags without thinking those flying them are racists.

    Interestingly a couple of years ago while in New England we met a Californian couple who were surprised by the number of Stars and Stripes on houses. This surprised me because I thought it was common in the USA. They said it had been, but in California less now so because of Trump embracing the flag. Obviously a California thing because New England isn't exactly Trump territory and there were loads there still. I was however surprised by the level of pride flags and black lives matter signs on shops. It was very common.

    I was interested in Norway to see the number of properties flying either national flags or pennants; clearly more common there than anywhere else I've been in Europe, almost close to US levels. So I asked GPT why this might be, as one does, and its answer was that domestic flag-flying is more common in those countries that have won their independence from another power - Norway from Sweden, the US from the UK.

    It did also add that in remote rural areas of Norway there's a practice of flying a pennant when you're at home, like British royals, to let neighbours and passers by know that the home is currently inhabited.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,638
    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    This will end Labour, possibly forever
    Number 87 in an ongoing series....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,437

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    You'd think they'd want to do something to oppose that SMO, then.
    No no, not THAT imperialism.
    Literally the only imperialist nation anxious to send their troops into Ukraine is Russia.
    Oh, and N Korea, if they count (Joseon did after all style itself as an empire).

    The includes the modern "imperialists" of the US, and the old style European imperialists - the UK; France; Germany and even Poland.

    Dura's comment is either his usual high grade satire, or delusional.
    Genuinely hard to distinguish.
    No, I think he's correct that a lot of Greens/ Corbynites do think that.
    Of course, but it's entirely inaccurate to label it an "instinctive revulsion towards imperialism".
    It's a wilful blindness.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,152
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    stodge said:

    As for Ukraine, as part of some form of international peacekeeping force (minus the Americans), I've little objection in principle to a British presence on the ground in Ukraine.

    The notion of Brazilian, Indian and Kenyan troops patrolling Donetsk in the depths of winter is not without a certain wry amusement but the first question is going to be who will pay for this force - I suspect it won't be Ukraine or Russia (though it should be). I can't see America stumping up so it'll be the Europeans who will have to fork out as I suspect it will be a primarily European force (it shouldn't be).


    Now this from Politico USA:
    Pentagon’s top policy official told a small group of European allies Tuesday night that the U.S. plans to play a minimal role in any Ukraine security guarantees,

    “There’s the dawning reality that this will be Europe making this happen on the ground,” said a NATO diplomat who was briefed on the talks. “The U.S. is not fully committed to anything.”

    “I don’t know where that leaves us,” said one of the European officials. “Pretty much back to where we were in the spring with the coalition of the willing.”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1958428810870690253?s=61

    Exactly where we've been since Trump was elected.
    Quite why they thought this would change is a mystery.
    Since Trump was elected in 2016.

    He repeatedly told Europe to increase defence spending and Europe laughed at him.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    The former flags are largely on council property, stret lighting, etc. etc. If you leave them up, it'll be PA flags, Happy Dene Villas Housing Estate flags, Joe's Used Motors flags, etc. etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv76zzze47o
    That’s Worcestershire not Brum. I’d struggle to walk to the Blues ground from there although I knew someone who got a lift to Derby, didn’t have one back so ended up walking most of the way from Derby to Sutton C

    The Palestine flags in Small Heath were/are predominantly on street furniture.
    Wow!

    Wythall and Hollywood get a name check for flying the flag of St George. How times change. In the fifteen years I lived in Wythall (until 1977) and the concurrent ten years I was at school in Hollywood I never saw a flag of St George. I know this because when I moved to Herefordshire I was shocked to see there were quite a few. They were flying as a demonstration of Herefordshire people's antithesis to the neighbouring Welsh. Why fly them now? Wythall is still at least fifty miles from Wales.
    I used to do a secure homes collection round in Hollywood and Drakes Cross. My mom lives not far from there and we like Becketts Farm even though the service is poor. My Dads wake was held at the golf club there. Never ever recall seeing a flag there either
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525

    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    The former flags are largely on council property, stret lighting, etc. etc. If you leave them up, it'll be PA flags, Happy Dene Villas Housing Estate flags, Joe's Used Motors flags, etc. etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv76zzze47o
    That’s Worcestershire not Brum. I’d struggle to walk to the Blues ground from there although I knew someone who got a lift to Derby, didn’t have one back so ended up walking most of the way from Derby to Sutton C

    The Palestine flags in Small Heath were/are predominantly on street furniture.
    Wow!

    Wythall and Hollywood get a name check for flying the flag of St George. How times change. In the fifteen years I lived in Wythall (until 1977) and the concurrent ten years I was at school in Hollywood I never saw a flag of St George. I know this because when I moved to Herefordshire I was shocked to see there were quite a few. They were flying as a demonstration of Herefordshire people's antithesis to the neighbouring Welsh. Why fly them now? Wythall is still at least fifty miles from Wales.
    It’s people still ecstatic about the Lionesses winning the Euros. Don’t be such a buzzkill.
    Surely fans prepping for the hugely exciting Women's Rugby WC and whatever stupid marketing name the England team call themselves.
    Names will be made as the BBC keeps bleating.
    It’s a shame that it looks a very one sided competition. I like women’s rugby but it’s futile watching games England play as they’re not very competitive
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,370
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    This will end Labour, possibly forever
    Number 87 in an ongoing series....
    A recent poll has Labour down on 19, rivalling their worst EVER polls. So this really is a prospect. A tempting prospect - the complete extermination of Labour

    Sadly I think they will survive and, yes, a little hopecasting has entered my discourse, but a man must have room to dream
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,181
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Essence of Reformism is "don't tax me to spend money on them, tax them to spend money on me".

    Every party does it a bit, because it's human nature to think that. But the Uniparty and its voters tend to draw the line in one place, and Faragists draw it somewhere else.

    And because "me" and "them" are different for everyone, Nigel will have a rotten time if he ever has to take responsibility.

    Well to be fair Labours/the lefts line is ‘tax the rich to pay for everything’, the Tories is cut taxes and don’t pay for anything and the Lib Dems, well no one really knows.
    Those two are at least coherent from the point of view of arithmetic. Which is why Hunt's NI cuts funded by mystery spending cuts were so problematic.
    Correction - are now so problematic.

    We go back to the question of worst chancellor of the past 50 years and I think I could make a very good case for Hunt being that person
    Sigh. My weekly reminder that Hunt's budget which cut NI actually increased taxes overall. It is a complete if persistent myth that this created some sort of black hole in the accounts that wasn't already there. What it did was it reduced the imbalance between earned income and unearned income to a modest extent. Which was a step in the right direction, if nowhere near far enough.

    Hunt was trying to do an Osborne by reducing the deficit by small enough amounts each year to keep the economy growing, albeit modestly. It is a rare skill to be able to do that and requires more than a fair share of luck.
    Surely you should be happy then with the modest growth of 1% in H1 of this year then?

    What Hunt did to fiddle the figures was to not do a spending review, so he could ignore the cost pressures that he knew were there. It was straightforward deception in order to salt the earth.
    The growth in H1 was better than I expected and probably as much as we can hope for. I will be delighted if we match this in H2. I genuinely have some sympathy for Reeves, she inherited a very difficult situation. I would agree that Hunt did not do enough to improve our fiscal situation.

    Unfortunately, I think she has made it worse in a variety of ways. Her increases in employers NI has weakened an already weakening jobs market giving rise to an increase in unemployment. Her VAT on school fees is almost certainly going to generate nothing of substance, possibly even a loss, and was driven by class hatred. Her reforms of Non Dom taxation have again assumed that they would simply stay put and take it when these people have options. She has been paralysed by her party's refusal to accept even modest cuts when so much more is needed. Blowing all the additional tax income to buy peace in the public sector with above inflation wage increases was a serious mistake with ongoing consequences as we are seeing from the doctors strikes.

    I again acknowledge this is not easy. She needs a lot more tax revenue but doesn't want to damage the economy. There are no easy options here. But she must, must get spending under control before the markets do it for her.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,526
    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    You'd think they'd want to do something to oppose that SMO, then.
    No no, not THAT imperialism.
    Literally the only imperialist nation anxious to send their troops into Ukraine is Russia.
    Oh, and N Korea, if they count (Joseon did after all style itself as an empire).

    The includes the modern "imperialists" of the US, and the old style European imperialists - the UK; France; Germany and even Poland.

    Dura's comment is either his usual high grade satire, or delusional.
    Genuinely hard to distinguish.
    Interesting, according to the latest poll in Germany, Green party voters are the only ones who support German peacekeeping troops in Ukraine (53% vs 31%). Overall the majority are against (56% vs 28%). Though this is a poll conducted for dodgy 'news' outlet NiUS. They claim it was done by genuine pollsters INSA, but I can't find any details.

    Of course the German Green party isn't very similar to the UK Green parties.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,801
    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Flags, it seems, are never too far away from the top of the agenda. The rule against putting flags on street architecture (and that includes painting St George crosses on mini-roundabouts) is clear and as long as it is applied consistently (is there evidence it isn't apart from those trying to weaponise the story by saying Council,X took 12 hours to get rid of the St George's flags and 18 hours to get rid of the Palestinian ones), there should be no issues.

    It's all a bit reminiscent of Northern Ireland in the Troubles - this is "our" street etc, etc and we saw the same in Ballymena recently.

    As for asylum applicants in hotels, well, we have a temporary injunction which may or may not face an appeal. We already know the current Government, desperate to look as though they were doing something, were moving the asylum applicants out of hotels and into HMOs which, as we've seen, are not without their own issues and those with longer memories will recall the trouble in the old East Germany when this happened.

    The hostility toward "outsiders" and "they're not like us" combines both issues - the fortress of cultural identity gets ever stronger. It;s not a failure of multiculturalism but a failure of simple humanity.

    I’m frankly a bit pissed off with the lack of flag etiquette going on. I want those St George’s, Ukrainian and Palestinian flags down at sunset and only back up at sunrise and if left overnight I want them properly spotlit.

    I attach a handy guide to flag etiquette for flag shaggers of all persuasions.

    https://www.naco.uk.com/assets/Uploads/flagprotocol.pdf
    That guide hasn't been updated to reflect the reign of KCIII. Tsk.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,801
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    The former flags are largely on council property, stret lighting, etc. etc. If you leave them up, it'll be PA flags, Happy Dene Villas Housing Estate flags, Joe's Used Motors flags, etc. etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv76zzze47o
    Let a thousand flags fly.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,010
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Essence of Reformism is "don't tax me to spend money on them, tax them to spend money on me".

    Every party does it a bit, because it's human nature to think that. But the Uniparty and its voters tend to draw the line in one place, and Faragists draw it somewhere else.

    And because "me" and "them" are different for everyone, Nigel will have a rotten time if he ever has to take responsibility.

    Well to be fair Labours/the lefts line is ‘tax the rich to pay for everything’, the Tories is cut taxes and don’t pay for anything and the Lib Dems, well no one really knows.
    Those two are at least coherent from the point of view of arithmetic. Which is why Hunt's NI cuts funded by mystery spending cuts were so problematic.
    Correction - are now so problematic.

    We go back to the question of worst chancellor of the past 50 years and I think I could make a very good case for Hunt being that person
    Sigh. My weekly reminder that Hunt's budget which cut NI actually increased taxes overall. It is a complete if persistent myth that this created some sort of black hole in the accounts that wasn't already there. What it did was it reduced the imbalance between earned income and unearned income to a modest extent. Which was a step in the right direction, if nowhere near far enough.

    Hunt was trying to do an Osborne by reducing the deficit by small enough amounts each year to keep the economy growing, albeit modestly. It is a rare skill to be able to do that and requires more than a fair share of luck.
    Surely you should be happy then with the modest growth of 1% in H1 of this year then?

    What Hunt did to fiddle the figures was to not do a spending review, so he could ignore the cost pressures that he knew were there. It was straightforward deception in order to salt the earth.
    +1 and I will repeat my theory that the reason the election was in July 2024 was because the lack of a spending review and leeway gave Rishi little choice but to run because the other options were give Doctors (and others) money that couldn’t be afforded or a general election during which the NHS and teachers were on strike.

    And in that scenario I think the Tory party would have been in minibus figures in Parliament
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,613
    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    I quite like seeing flags flying. You notice it quite a lot in European countries on public buildings. Here the flying of the Union Jack and Cross of St George became a negative thing after the use of it by the BNP and football thugs in the 70s onwards. Sometime ago that stain finally disappeared. I hope it isn't going to return by making this political. I want to see the flags without thinking those flying them are racists.

    Interestingly a couple of years ago while in New England we met a Californian couple who were surprised by the number of Stars and Stripes on houses. This surprised me because I thought it was common in the USA. They said it had been, but in California less now so because of Trump embracing the flag. Obviously a California thing because New England isn't exactly Trump territory and there were loads there still. I was however surprised by the level of pride flags and black lives matter signs on shops. It was very common.

    I was interested in Norway to see the number of properties flying either national flags or pennants; clearly more common there than anywhere else I've been in Europe, almost close to US levels. So I asked GPT why this might be, as one does, and its answer was that domestic flag-flying is more common in those countries that have won their independence from another power - Norway from Sweden, the US from the UK.

    It did also add that in remote rural areas of Norway there's a practice of flying a pennant when you're at home, like British royals, to let neighbours and passers by know that the home is currently inhabited.
    You’d be unsurprised to hear that there were an awful lot of Ukranian flags there. Pretty much US levels, flying not only from public buildings but also private businesses and homes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,370
    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,913
    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    I quite like seeing flags flying. You notice it quite a lot in European countries on public buildings. Here the flying of the Union Jack and Cross of St George became a negative thing after the use of it by the BNP and football thugs in the 70s onwards. Sometime ago that stain finally disappeared. I hope it isn't going to return by making this political. I want to see the flags without thinking those flying them are racists.

    Interestingly a couple of years ago while in New England we met a Californian couple who were surprised by the number of Stars and Stripes on houses. This surprised me because I thought it was common in the USA. They said it had been, but in California less now so because of Trump embracing the flag. Obviously a California thing because New England isn't exactly Trump territory and there were loads there still. I was however surprised by the level of pride flags and black lives matter signs on shops. It was very common.

    I was interested in Norway to see the number of properties flying either national flags or pennants; clearly more common there than anywhere else I've been in Europe, almost close to US levels. So I asked GPT why this might be, as one does, and its answer was that domestic flag-flying is more common in those countries that have won their independence from another power - Norway from Sweden, the US from the UK.

    It did also add that in remote rural areas of Norway there's a practice of flying a pennant when you're at home, like British royals, to let neighbours and passers by know that the home is currently inhabited.
    Loads of flags here, a lot of Jersey flags (and the pennants that seem to occupy flag poles all year long) and a lot of Union flags - the Bailiff instructs when certain flags must be flown from public buildings - I imagine it’s a hangover from being occupied which makes the public display of identity v important. Never see as many flags in the UK wherever I have been.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,687
    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    You'd think they'd want to do something to oppose that SMO, then.
    No no, not THAT imperialism.
    Literally the only imperialist nation anxious to send their troops into Ukraine is Russia.
    Oh, and N Korea, if they count (Joseon did after all style itself as an empire).

    The includes the modern "imperialists" of the US, and the old style European imperialists - the UK; France; Germany and even Poland.

    Dura's comment is either his usual high grade satire, or delusional.
    Genuinely hard to distinguish.
    Interesting, according to the latest poll in Germany, Green party voters are the only ones who support German peacekeeping troops in Ukraine (53% vs 31%). Overall the majority are against (56% vs 28%). Though this is a poll conducted for dodgy 'news' outlet NiUS. They claim it was done by genuine pollsters INSA, but I can't find any details.

    Of course the German Green party isn't very similar to the UK Green parties.
    Germany has Linke for starters
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,777
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Landlords would be mad not to take it. As for the renters, oh dear how sad never mind. Many will support the asylum seekers anyway so they can live with the consequences of it.

    Durham council are consulting on HMO’s at the moment with a view to making it tougher to convert a home into an HMO. More driven by students than anything else as County Durham is not really overflowing with these asylum seekers unlike Gateshead, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough who have over 8 times (proportionally) the amount of these men.
    They put them in Scotland where they like without any consultation with councils etc.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,393

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    You'd think they'd want to do something to oppose that SMO, then.
    No no, not THAT imperialism.
    Literally the only imperialist nation anxious to send their troops into Ukraine is Russia.
    Oh, and N Korea, if they count (Joseon did after all style itself as an empire).

    The includes the modern "imperialists" of the US, and the old style European imperialists - the UK; France; Germany and even Poland.

    Dura's comment is either his usual high grade satire, or delusional.
    Genuinely hard to distinguish.
    No, I think he's correct that a lot of Greens/ Corbynites do think that.
    It proves the point I made yesterday.

    Many “anti-imperialists” only object to imperialistm when it’s done by people they don’t like.

    Many supported the USSR, which was the most ruthless of the European empires.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,459
    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    And putting Farage and co. into Downing Street will only make it far worse as their economics is just fantasy island on stilts.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,801
    kjh said:

    I quite like seeing flags flying. You notice it quite a lot in European countries on public buildings. Here the flying of the Union Jack and Cross of St George became a negative thing after the use of it by the BNP and football thugs in the 70s onwards. Sometime ago that stain finally disappeared. I hope it isn't going to return by making this political. I want to see the flags without thinking those flying them are racists.

    Interestingly a couple of years ago while in New England we met a Californian couple who were surprised by the number of Stars and Stripes on houses. This surprised me because I thought it was common in the USA. They said it had been, but in California less now so because of Trump embracing the flag. Obviously a California thing because New England isn't exactly Trump territory and there were loads there still. I was however surprised by the level of pride flags and black lives matter signs on shops. It was very common.

    There are a lot more flags flying in Ireland than in Britain. A lot of County flags as well as the Irish tricolour. I like flags. They're colourful and they flap about in the wind - what's not to like?

    The Union flag has the advantage of being one of the more interesting flag designs too.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,777
    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    stodge said:

    As for Ukraine, as part of some form of international peacekeeping force (minus the Americans), I've little objection in principle to a British presence on the ground in Ukraine.

    The notion of Brazilian, Indian and Kenyan troops patrolling Donetsk in the depths of winter is not without a certain wry amusement but the first question is going to be who will pay for this force - I suspect it won't be Ukraine or Russia (though it should be). I can't see America stumping up so it'll be the Europeans who will have to fork out as I suspect it will be a primarily European force (it shouldn't be).


    Now this from Politico USA:
    Pentagon’s top policy official told a small group of European allies Tuesday night that the U.S. plans to play a minimal role in any Ukraine security guarantees,

    “There’s the dawning reality that this will be Europe making this happen on the ground,” said a NATO diplomat who was briefed on the talks. “The U.S. is not fully committed to anything.”

    “I don’t know where that leaves us,” said one of the European officials. “Pretty much back to where we were in the spring with the coalition of the willing.”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1958428810870690253?s=61

    So after the over the top media headlines the sum total is the meetings in Washington achieved very little . Putin shows zero interest in ending the war and Trump isn’t going to do anything to force him to the table .
    Why do we need all these overpaid fcukwits. Any person on the street coudl have told them that 6 months ago. Trump is a moron , US only help if making money out of it and Europeans are a bunch of spineless cadgers hoping to get it for free and have paid lip service to it for years.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,010

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    And putting Farage and co. into Downing Street will only make it far worse as their economics is just fantasy island on stilts.
    Problem is the time for this Government to have a proper conversation about the real state of our economy was November last year.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,370

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    And putting Farage and co. into Downing Street will only make it far worse as their economics is just fantasy island on stilts.
    He says that in his Substack which underlies that thread. “Reform have no plan”

    He whole thing is worth a read. If you can cope with intense pessimism from a right wing perspective

    “I do not know what is going to happen in the United Kingdom in the next few years, but I am very confident that the present system will not last. Something will surely give, and when it does each piece of the situation I have just laid out for you will metastasize in rapid fashion, throwing one of the most clownish and intolerable political castes that presently exist anywhere on the planet into a nightmarish situation that far more competent men would barely be able to navigate successfully.”

    He’s largely correct, to my mind. He dips into hyperbole a couple of times (eg there aren’t terror attacks every week and London’s street culture is not “uniquely violent”) but on the mad fiscal problems, the mad benefits system, and the mad migration madness, he’s bang on

    https://mrstarstack.substack.com/p/london-bridge-is-falling-down



  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,075

    kjh said:

    I quite like seeing flags flying. You notice it quite a lot in European countries on public buildings. Here the flying of the Union Jack and Cross of St George became a negative thing after the use of it by the BNP and football thugs in the 70s onwards. Sometime ago that stain finally disappeared. I hope it isn't going to return by making this political. I want to see the flags without thinking those flying them are racists.

    Interestingly a couple of years ago while in New England we met a Californian couple who were surprised by the number of Stars and Stripes on houses. This surprised me because I thought it was common in the USA. They said it had been, but in California less now so because of Trump embracing the flag. Obviously a California thing because New England isn't exactly Trump territory and there were loads there still. I was however surprised by the level of pride flags and black lives matter signs on shops. It was very common.

    There are a lot more flags flying in Ireland than in Britain. A lot of County flags as well as the Irish tricolour. I like flags. They're colourful and they flap about in the wind - what's not to like?

    The Union flag has the advantage of being one of the more interesting flag designs too.
    It is probably the most interesting design, although it would help if it wasn't so complex that it is easy to fly upside down without knowing.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,842
    edited August 21
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    You'd think they'd want to do something to oppose that SMO, then.
    No no, not THAT imperialism.
    Literally the only imperialist nation anxious to send their troops into Ukraine is Russia.
    Oh, and N Korea, if they count (Joseon did after all style itself as an empire).

    The includes the modern "imperialists" of the US, and the old style European imperialists - the UK; France; Germany and even Poland.

    Dura's comment is either his usual high grade satire, or delusional.
    Genuinely hard to distinguish.
    Interesting, according to the latest poll in Germany, Green party voters are the only ones who support German peacekeeping troops in Ukraine (53% vs 31%). Overall the majority are against (56% vs 28%). Though this is a poll conducted for dodgy 'news' outlet NiUS. They claim it was done by genuine pollsters INSA, but I can't find any details.

    Of course the German Green party isn't very similar to the UK Green parties.
    Germany has Linke for starters
    And BSW. The German Greens are probably closer to the UK Lib Dems than they are to the UK Greens.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,638
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    I quite like seeing flags flying. You notice it quite a lot in European countries on public buildings. Here the flying of the Union Jack and Cross of St George became a negative thing after the use of it by the BNP and football thugs in the 70s onwards. Sometime ago that stain finally disappeared. I hope it isn't going to return by making this political. I want to see the flags without thinking those flying them are racists.

    Interestingly a couple of years ago while in New England we met a Californian couple who were surprised by the number of Stars and Stripes on houses. This surprised me because I thought it was common in the USA. They said it had been, but in California less now so because of Trump embracing the flag. Obviously a California thing because New England isn't exactly Trump territory and there were loads there still. I was however surprised by the level of pride flags and black lives matter signs on shops. It was very common.

    I was interested in Norway to see the number of properties flying either national flags or pennants; clearly more common there than anywhere else I've been in Europe, almost close to US levels. So I asked GPT why this might be, as one does, and its answer was that domestic flag-flying is more common in those countries that have won their independence from another power - Norway from Sweden, the US from the UK.

    It did also add that in remote rural areas of Norway there's a practice of flying a pennant when you're at home, like British royals, to let neighbours and passers by know that the home is currently inhabited.
    You’d be unsurprised to hear that there were an awful lot of Ukranian flags there. Pretty much US levels, flying not only from public buildings but also private businesses and homes.
    GPT is right if that was the case before the conflict, I guess..
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,152
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    And putting Farage and co. into Downing Street will only make it far worse as their economics is just fantasy island on stilts.
    Problem is the time for this Government to have a proper conversation about the real state of our economy was November last year.
    It would have been even better to have had the conversation while in opposition.

    That they didn't is why so many Labour MPs are in denial about the public finances:

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/economics/article/rachel-reeves-will-need-to-face-up-to-fantasists-on-both-sides-wgzjsvlqf
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,687
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    stodge said:

    As for Ukraine, as part of some form of international peacekeeping force (minus the Americans), I've little objection in principle to a British presence on the ground in Ukraine.

    The notion of Brazilian, Indian and Kenyan troops patrolling Donetsk in the depths of winter is not without a certain wry amusement but the first question is going to be who will pay for this force - I suspect it won't be Ukraine or Russia (though it should be). I can't see America stumping up so it'll be the Europeans who will have to fork out as I suspect it will be a primarily European force (it shouldn't be).


    Now this from Politico USA:
    Pentagon’s top policy official told a small group of European allies Tuesday night that the U.S. plans to play a minimal role in any Ukraine security guarantees,

    “There’s the dawning reality that this will be Europe making this happen on the ground,” said a NATO diplomat who was briefed on the talks. “The U.S. is not fully committed to anything.”

    “I don’t know where that leaves us,” said one of the European officials. “Pretty much back to where we were in the spring with the coalition of the willing.”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1958428810870690253?s=61

    At some point someone in the administration might realise that by forcing Europe to step up without the US they will cut the umbilical cord and force Europe and allies to prepare and equip for a world without the US.

    This will result in a big European defence industry feeding this more muscular Europe which will, on one hand, be a rival to the US industry for global sales, and on the other will divert spending by Europe on US kit which will damage the all powerful US defence industry.

    Europe will also, when they no longer have to kowtow to the US for protection, will likely no longer feel the need to back up the US in any future global shenanigans such as Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Making Europe responsible for Ukraine alone might not be the strategic win Trump and his ilk think it is.
    France and Germany never supported the US even when it went into Iraq anyway. Though ironically Iraq has now turned out rather better than Afghanistan which they did support, even if Bin Laden is now dead
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,801
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I quite like seeing flags flying. You notice it quite a lot in European countries on public buildings. Here the flying of the Union Jack and Cross of St George became a negative thing after the use of it by the BNP and football thugs in the 70s onwards. Sometime ago that stain finally disappeared. I hope it isn't going to return by making this political. I want to see the flags without thinking those flying them are racists.

    Interestingly a couple of years ago while in New England we met a Californian couple who were surprised by the number of Stars and Stripes on houses. This surprised me because I thought it was common in the USA. They said it had been, but in California less now so because of Trump embracing the flag. Obviously a California thing because New England isn't exactly Trump territory and there were loads there still. I was however surprised by the level of pride flags and black lives matter signs on shops. It was very common.

    There are a lot more flags flying in Ireland than in Britain. A lot of County flags as well as the Irish tricolour. I like flags. They're colourful and they flap about in the wind - what's not to like?

    The Union flag has the advantage of being one of the more interesting flag designs too.
    It is probably the most interesting design, although it would help if it wasn't so complex that it is easy to fly upside down without knowing.
    That problem will be solved with Irish unification and a reversion to the Union flag of 1707-1803.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,638
    edited August 21
    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Number 88 in an ongoing series....

    At what age did Meldrewitis overwhelm you?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,997
    fitalass said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A stopped clock moment from Rupert Lowe

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1958433737831600152?s=61

    Pity the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system - decades ago, admittedly, but still. My father, who had professional involvement, was not happy about it at the time.

    But a sinner that repenteth, and all that.
    If you think the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system, then the SNP completely blew it up in Scotland to the detriment of so many young people including those with disabilities or special needs.
    It was the Tories that did the major damage to industry generally where apprenticeships were concerned.

    Been looking at the news item which must have prompted this (there is hardly anything in the news on the theme). It's a Slab MSP's SNP BAD SNP HAS FAILED opinion piece in the DR. But looking elsewhere the apprenticeships stats seem to be holding up. Not a collapse at all, though a small drop over the years, even using his selected startying point.

    https://graemedey.info/apprenticeship-funding/
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,152
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    You'd think they'd want to do something to oppose that SMO, then.
    No no, not THAT imperialism.
    Literally the only imperialist nation anxious to send their troops into Ukraine is Russia.
    Oh, and N Korea, if they count (Joseon did after all style itself as an empire).

    The includes the modern "imperialists" of the US, and the old style European imperialists - the UK; France; Germany and even Poland.

    Dura's comment is either his usual high grade satire, or delusional.
    Genuinely hard to distinguish.
    No, I think he's correct that a lot of Greens/ Corbynites do think that.
    It proves the point I made yesterday.

    Many “anti-imperialists” only object to imperialistm when it’s done by people they don’t like.

    Many supported the USSR, which was the most ruthless of the European empires.
    They seem quite happy with Chinese imperialism and Iranian imperialism as well.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,526
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    You'd think they'd want to do something to oppose that SMO, then.
    No no, not THAT imperialism.
    Literally the only imperialist nation anxious to send their troops into Ukraine is Russia.
    Oh, and N Korea, if they count (Joseon did after all style itself as an empire).

    The includes the modern "imperialists" of the US, and the old style European imperialists - the UK; France; Germany and even Poland.

    Dura's comment is either his usual high grade satire, or delusional.
    Genuinely hard to distinguish.
    Interesting, according to the latest poll in Germany, Green party voters are the only ones who support German peacekeeping troops in Ukraine (53% vs 31%). Overall the majority are against (56% vs 28%). Though this is a poll conducted for dodgy 'news' outlet NiUS. They claim it was done by genuine pollsters INSA, but I can't find any details.

    Of course the German Green party isn't very similar to the UK Green parties.
    Germany has Linke for starters
    For sure the Green Party has lost many of its traditional more pacifist-ish voters to the Left with its stance of being the strongest supporter of supplying arms to Ukraine of all the German parties.

    I note that Germany seems not to have supplied Taurus missiles to Ukraine (which the Green Party supports) despite the promises made by Merz before the election.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,437
    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    "Totally underdiscussed"

    Yep, no one's even mentioned it.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,452

    In "Go Woke, Go broke" news:

    "Target CEO steps down as company faces weak sales and customer boycott
    Brian Cornell to be replaced next year as retailer navigates boycott over its scaling back of DEI initiatives"

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/aug/20/target-ceo-steps-down

    Oh.

    Er, wasn't Target's problem that it stopped being Woke? Conservatives had long abandoned the brand but it was still successful, then rolling back all the DEI stuff caused Liberals to stop shopping there too. Alienating both sides isn't a good business strategy.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,954
    Battlebus said:

    Off topic. Who are the IDF bombarding? Who are they dropping bombs on?

    Is there some hidden well equipped army still there we do not about.

    Yes, Hamas. The ones still holding on to hostages, or the bodies of hostages, and the ones routinely stealing aid lorries.

    That Hamas.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,467
    Morning all, Labour have equalled their lowest ever VI in this week's FoN poll

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 33% (+2)
    🔴 Labour: 18% (-1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 17% (-2)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (-)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-)

    Changes from 13th August
    [Find Out Now, 20th August, N=2,615]
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,459
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    "Totally underdiscussed"

    Yep, no one's even mentioned it.
    Like Farage telling a Question Time audience on his 1549th appearance that no one is allowed to talk about migration.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,156
    I was surprised how many flage there were in New Zealand when I was there at the beginning of the year and as you know there was a bit of a kerfuffle over a proposed change to the flag design.

    You see the national flag but also the Maori flag and at least one of the alternative flags - the All Blacks flag is also seen.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,370

    Morning all, Labour have equalled their lowest ever VI in this week's FoN poll

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 33% (+2)
    🔴 Labour: 18% (-1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 17% (-2)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (-)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-)

    Changes from 13th August
    [Find Out Now, 20th August, N=2,615]

    Ahahahahaha

    Hahahahah

    At what point will Reform’s vote equal the combined Tory and Labour vote?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,077

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    stodge said:

    As for Ukraine, as part of some form of international peacekeeping force (minus the Americans), I've little objection in principle to a British presence on the ground in Ukraine.

    The notion of Brazilian, Indian and Kenyan troops patrolling Donetsk in the depths of winter is not without a certain wry amusement but the first question is going to be who will pay for this force - I suspect it won't be Ukraine or Russia (though it should be). I can't see America stumping up so it'll be the Europeans who will have to fork out as I suspect it will be a primarily European force (it shouldn't be).


    Now this from Politico USA:
    Pentagon’s top policy official told a small group of European allies Tuesday night that the U.S. plans to play a minimal role in any Ukraine security guarantees,

    “There’s the dawning reality that this will be Europe making this happen on the ground,” said a NATO diplomat who was briefed on the talks. “The U.S. is not fully committed to anything.”

    “I don’t know where that leaves us,” said one of the European officials. “Pretty much back to where we were in the spring with the coalition of the willing.”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1958428810870690253?s=61

    Exactly where we've been since Trump was elected.
    Quite why they thought this would change is a mystery.
    Since Trump was elected in 2016.

    He repeatedly told Europe to increase defence spending and Europe laughed at him.
    Its the way he tells em.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,152
    The Times gets very concerned about oldies who have houses worth over £1.5m:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/mansion-tax-rachel-reeves-house-property-3clhgcpbm

    These unfortunates have, it seems, only made a gain of £836,219 compared with what they paid.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,077
    Leon said:

    Morning all, Labour have equalled their lowest ever VI in this week's FoN poll

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 33% (+2)
    🔴 Labour: 18% (-1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 17% (-2)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (-)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-)

    Changes from 13th August
    [Find Out Now, 20th August, N=2,615]

    Ahahahahaha

    Hahahahah

    At what point will Reform’s vote equal the combined Tory and Labour vote?
    Whilst the Tories keep continuing to campaign for Reform it will be +1, -1 each month.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,954
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    The former flags are largely on council property, stret lighting, etc. etc. If you leave them up, it'll be PA flags, Happy Dene Villas Housing Estate flags, Joe's Used Motors flags, etc. etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv76zzze47o
    That’s Worcestershire not Brum. I’d struggle to walk to the Blues ground from there although I knew someone who got a lift to Derby, didn’t have one back so ended up walking most of the way from Derby to Sutton C

    The Palestine flags in Small Heath were/are predominantly on street furniture.
    Wow!

    Wythall and Hollywood get a name check for flying the flag of St George. How times change. In the fifteen years I lived in Wythall (until 1977) and the concurrent ten years I was at school in Hollywood I never saw a flag of St George. I know this because when I moved to Herefordshire I was shocked to see there were quite a few. They were flying as a demonstration of Herefordshire people's antithesis to the neighbouring Welsh. Why fly them now? Wythall is still at least fifty miles from Wales.
    It’s people still ecstatic about the Lionesses winning the Euros. Don’t be such a buzzkill.
    Or for the Rugby World Cup, starting tomorrow, England hot favs.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,452
    stodge said:

    I was surprised how many flage there were in New Zealand when I was there at the beginning of the year and as you know there was a bit of a kerfuffle over a proposed change to the flag design.

    You see the national flag but also the Maori flag and at least one of the alternative flags - the All Blacks flag is also seen.

    Still a shame that they didn't shortlist the kiwi shooting laser beams flag
  • The interesting thing about the poll is how aligned Lab, Tory and Lib Dem’s are and different Reform are. Just goes to show Reform are not normal.

    I do wonder how soft their polling is. Are these leads illusory? Will their supporters bother to vote?

    Indeed, first thing that struck me was how different Reform and Con are.

    Goes to show (again) they're not interchangeable and can't be added together.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,370

    Morning all, Labour have equalled their lowest ever VI in this week's FoN poll

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 33% (+2)
    🔴 Labour: 18% (-1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 17% (-2)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (-)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-)

    Changes from 13th August
    [Find Out Now, 20th August, N=2,615]

    Maybe I’m right and this really is the end for Labour. What’s going to save them?

    Barely a year after they won a huge majority, their support has almost halved to their lowest VI ever

    This is surely unprecedented? For an election winning party in the UK?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,997
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Landlords would be mad not to take it. As for the renters, oh dear how sad never mind. Many will support the asylum seekers anyway so they can live with the consequences of it.

    Durham council are consulting on HMO’s at the moment with a view to making it tougher to convert a home into an HMO. More driven by students than anything else as County Durham is not really overflowing with these asylum seekers unlike Gateshead, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough who have over 8 times (proportionally) the amount of these men.
    They put them in Scotland where they like without any consultation with councils etc.
    Not quite; they have to be licensed to be legal. At least in Edinburgh the covid crisis caused some blind eyes, but they've been rowing back and enforcing licensing.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg0qxxn8e7o
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    DM_Andy said:

    In "Go Woke, Go broke" news:

    "Target CEO steps down as company faces weak sales and customer boycott
    Brian Cornell to be replaced next year as retailer navigates boycott over its scaling back of DEI initiatives"

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/aug/20/target-ceo-steps-down

    Oh.

    Er, wasn't Target's problem that it stopped being Woke? Conservatives had long abandoned the brand but it was still successful, then rolling back all the DEI stuff caused Liberals to stop shopping there too. Alienating both sides isn't a good business strategy.

    The CEO can have a few Bud Light to drown their sorrows
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,451

    Morning all, Labour have equalled their lowest ever VI in this week's FoN poll

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 33% (+2)
    🔴 Labour: 18% (-1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 17% (-2)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (-)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-)

    Changes from 13th August
    [Find Out Now, 20th August, N=2,615]

    Good morning

    Astonishing poll with Reform 15% ahead of labour who are 1% ahead of the conservatives

    If it is to be believed, the populace simply have had enough of all the parties and Reform represents NOA

    I have no idea how UKPLC is governable
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,997
    edited August 21
    Reform 33, Lab 18, Con 17 with Findoutnow !

    Seems like Labour are indeed finding out :joy:
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,156
    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I'm not quite sure what "totally underdiscussed" means - we talk about it on here on a daily basis. Is it the main topic of conversation on the street? Inasmuch as people complain about the cost of everything but they have done for at least the last 50 years. and probably longer.

    My grandmother always claimed inflation began with decimalisation.

    As to the "living beyond our means" question, what would be the point of debate? Most people would argue for paying less tax for themselves (everyone else can pay more) and cutting everyone else's services and benefits - human nature. If you can get past that motivated self interest, you may find some of the answers not what your politics would prefer.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Number 88 in an ongoing series....

    At what age did Meldrewitis overwhelm you?
    The thing about Victor Meldrew is the older you get the more you realise he’s correct
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,603
    DM_Andy said:

    In "Go Woke, Go broke" news:

    "Target CEO steps down as company faces weak sales and customer boycott
    Brian Cornell to be replaced next year as retailer navigates boycott over its scaling back of DEI initiatives"

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/aug/20/target-ceo-steps-down

    Oh.

    Er, wasn't Target's problem that it stopped being Woke? Conservatives had long abandoned the brand but it was still successful, then rolling back all the DEI stuff caused Liberals to stop shopping there too. Alienating both sides isn't a good business strategy.
    Yes, hence the "oh" at the end.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,690
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    "Totally underdiscussed"

    Yep, no one's even mentioned it.
    I take the long view.

    Compared to the vast majority of people in most times and places, the typical UK inhabitant is living in clover.
    Yes, the doomsters and gloomsters talking down Britain are just demonstrating their low IQ.

    Sure there are economic and political challenges, but when in our history has that not been the case? And which comparable countries are doing much better?

    Britain remains a great place to live by any objective measure.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,370
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I'm not quite sure what "totally underdiscussed" means - we talk about it on here on a daily basis. Is it the main topic of conversation on the street? Inasmuch as people complain about the cost of everything but they have done for at least the last 50 years. and probably longer.

    My grandmother always claimed inflation began with decimalisation.

    As to the "living beyond our means" question, what would be the point of debate? Most people would argue for paying less tax for themselves (everyone else can pay more) and cutting everyone else's services and benefits - human nature. If you can get past that motivated self interest, you may find some of the answers not what your politics would prefer.
    I think he means this: the looming crisis is so bad - equivalent to the approach of a potentially calamitous war - it should absolutely dominate our media and political discourse, in the form of an honest and fervent debate. And it does not

    How often does Starmer make a speech saying “this is really bad, we have to cut borrowing, cut spending, it’s going to hurt - but the alternative is bankruptcy”

    (Yes yes fiat money blah blah)

    How often does he do that? Never. He never levels with us. Nor does Reeves, really

    Instead she cries like a child in Parliament

    They all have to go
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,077
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    "Totally underdiscussed"

    Yep, no one's even mentioned it.
    I take the long view.

    Compared to the vast majority of people in most times and places, the typical UK inhabitant is living in clover.
    It is telling that the people who moan the loudest, have the means to comfortably move abroad and have considered doing so, rarely actually do go, and of those that do, plenty come back home quickly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,370
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I'm not quite sure what "totally underdiscussed" means - we talk about it on here on a daily basis. Is it the main topic of conversation on the street? Inasmuch as people complain about the cost of everything but they have done for at least the last 50 years. and probably longer.

    My grandmother always claimed inflation began with decimalisation.

    As to the "living beyond our means" question, what would be the point of debate? Most people would argue for paying less tax for themselves (everyone else can pay more) and cutting everyone else's services and benefits - human nature. If you can get past that motivated self interest, you may find some of the answers not what your politics would prefer.
    PS also he’s an American onlooker. So he’s also saying “this is under discussed in America and outside the UK - the complete fucked up ness of the UK”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,690
    edited August 21
    Taz said:

    DM_Andy said:

    In "Go Woke, Go broke" news:

    "Target CEO steps down as company faces weak sales and customer boycott
    Brian Cornell to be replaced next year as retailer navigates boycott over its scaling back of DEI initiatives"

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/aug/20/target-ceo-steps-down

    Oh.

    Er, wasn't Target's problem that it stopped being Woke? Conservatives had long abandoned the brand but it was still successful, then rolling back all the DEI stuff caused Liberals to stop shopping there too. Alienating both sides isn't a good business strategy.

    The CEO can have a few Bud Light to drown their sorrows
    Best not have too many if planning to drive off in their pink Jag concept car.

    Though I note that joining in on the other side of the culture wars hasn't done Tesla any favours. Best tactics for CEOs and marketing is a low profile on these things.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,370
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    "Totally underdiscussed"

    Yep, no one's even mentioned it.
    I take the long view.

    Compared to the vast majority of people in most times and places, the typical UK inhabitant is living in clover.
    Saying “well at least we’re not living in mud huts or caves, as 90% of humans did for 200,000 years” loses its consolation value after a while
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,156

    Morning all, Labour have equalled their lowest ever VI in this week's FoN poll

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 33% (+2)
    🔴 Labour: 18% (-1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 17% (-2)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (-)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-)

    Changes from 13th August
    [Find Out Now, 20th August, N=2,615]

    Good morning

    Astonishing poll with Reform 15% ahead of labour who are 1% ahead of the conservatives

    If it is to be believed, the populace simply have had enough of all the parties and Reform represents NOA

    I have no idea how UKPLC is governable
    The "governable" bit is easy - if a party has a majority in the Commons it can govern. Mid term poll ratings don't (or shouldn't) make any difference.

    It's a poor poll for Labour AND the Conservatives - 35% for the old duopoly is probably an all time low.

    Reform, as you say, continue to ride the tiger of disillusionment and are currently all things to all people (much as the Alliance was in its early days). Farage currently doesn't need to have the answers (he just has to say he does) but as we approach the election, it will be reasonable for us to ask the searching questions about what a Reform Government would do if it still looks a possibility.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,506
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A stopped clock moment from Rupert Lowe

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1958433737831600152?s=61

    Pity the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system - decades ago, admittedly, but still. My father, who had professional involvement, was not happy about it at the time.

    But a sinner that repenteth, and all that.
    The biggest advocates of the ending of apprenticeships were the Trade Unions. Who regarded them as cut price indentured servitude.

    Which they often were, back in the day.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,467
    edited August 21
    Leon said:

    Morning all, Labour have equalled their lowest ever VI in this week's FoN poll

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 33% (+2)
    🔴 Labour: 18% (-1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 17% (-2)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (-)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-)

    Changes from 13th August
    [Find Out Now, 20th August, N=2,615]

    Maybe I’m right and this really is the end for Labour. What’s going to save them?

    Barely a year after they won a huge majority, their support has almost halved to their lowest VI ever

    This is surely unprecedented? For an election winning party in the UK?
    Its also the lowest ever LabCon combined share beating 36% with FoN earlier this year and 36% with YouGov during the 2019 Brexit meltdown (which, on July 3rd 2019 was Labour's only other 18% with YG)

    Tories probably ought to start framing an 'its us or Reform' narrative and try and bury Labour in third or lower. That might be their own only chance to stay in the game
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,608
    edited August 21
    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Leaving aside the insanity of his sig[1], here is a substack from the same author that seems to cover the same points you make, only with links and sources [1] "Mr. S.T.A.R. @youngtroon Prof @ BBU, PhD Wumbology from the University of Rock Bottom, Bikini Bottom City Councillor for Jellyfish Fields". Dude be weird.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,156
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I'm not quite sure what "totally underdiscussed" means - we talk about it on here on a daily basis. Is it the main topic of conversation on the street? Inasmuch as people complain about the cost of everything but they have done for at least the last 50 years. and probably longer.

    My grandmother always claimed inflation began with decimalisation.

    As to the "living beyond our means" question, what would be the point of debate? Most people would argue for paying less tax for themselves (everyone else can pay more) and cutting everyone else's services and benefits - human nature. If you can get past that motivated self interest, you may find some of the answers not what your politics would prefer.
    I think he means this: the looming crisis is so bad - equivalent to the approach of a potentially calamitous war - it should absolutely dominate our media and political discourse, in the form of an honest and fervent debate. And it does not

    How often does Starmer make a speech saying “this is really bad, we have to cut borrowing, cut spending, it’s going to hurt - but the alternative is bankruptcy”

    (Yes yes fiat money blah blah)

    How often does he do that? Never. He never levels with us. Nor does Reeves, really

    Instead she cries like a child in Parliament

    They all have to go
    To be fair, this didn't begin on July 5th 2024 - borrowing surged under the previous administration for various reasons. The bill arrived on the table just as Starmer and Reeves sat down.

    We can all agree borrowing has to be reduced (and the deficit) but as always it's the means not the ends that are the problem.

    I suspect you are in the "cut taxes and spending" camp - I'm not.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,370
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    “Something that goes totally underdiscussed in the very bizarre story of the United Kingdom is its completely fucked financial situation. I struggle to think of a western nation with such a disastrous set of fiscal issues.”

    Simple and disturbing thread on the YooKay’s fiscal fucked-ness

    https://x.com/youngtroon/status/1958319399812616618?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Leaving aside the insanity of his sig[1], here is a substack from the same author that seems to cover the same points you make, only with links and sources [1] "Mr. S.T.A.R. @youngtroon Prof @ BBU, PhD Wumbology from the University of Rock Bottom, Bikini Bottom City Councillor for Jellyfish Fields". Dude be weird.
    I linked to this earlier, you ninny
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,802
    Leon said:

    Morning all, Labour have equalled their lowest ever VI in this week's FoN poll

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 33% (+2)
    🔴 Labour: 18% (-1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 17% (-2)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (-)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-)

    Changes from 13th August
    [Find Out Now, 20th August, N=2,615]

    Maybe I’m right and this really is the end for Labour. What’s going to save them?

    Barely a year after they won a huge majority, their support has almost halved to their lowest VI ever

    This is surely unprecedented? For an election winning party in the UK?
    It’s very interesting that Reform are now creeping up to low 30s now with a number of pollsters. It’s starting to get into serious election winning territory (and yes I know FPTP is broken at the moment, but if you look at 2024, 2010, 2005, these were all elections won in the mid-30s, so it starts to look more ‘precedented’ the nearer they creep to 35%)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,997

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A stopped clock moment from Rupert Lowe

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1958433737831600152?s=61

    Pity the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system - decades ago, admittedly, but still. My father, who had professional involvement, was not happy about it at the time.

    But a sinner that repenteth, and all that.
    The biggest advocates of the ending of apprenticeships were the Trade Unions. Who regarded them as cut price indentured servitude.

    Which they often were, back in the day.
    Depends in what. Taz (perhaps) and I tend to think in terms of skilled stuff such as engineering. But in any case the employers didn't want to pay the cvosts in case the trainee moved on. That was why they had the levy and that was what the Tories dismantled.

    https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2015/07/apprenticeships-and-conservative.html
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,608
    edited August 21

    Morning all, Labour have equalled their lowest ever VI in this week's FoN poll

    Find Out Now voting intention:
    🟦 Reform UK: 33% (+2)
    🔴 Labour: 18% (-1)
    🔵 Conservatives: 17% (-2)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (-)
    🟢 Greens: 10% (-)

    Changes from 13th August
    [Find Out Now, 20th August, N=2,615]

    Stats for Lefties @LeftieStats Aug 14
    If - as seems likely - Labour eventually drops to 17% in a non-hypothetical poll, then it would be the lowest that the party has ever polled. We are one small scandal away from that historic moment
    Source: https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1956103716009898089#m
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