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This may become a defining image/legacy of the Trump/Putin summit – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,634
edited August 18 in General
This may become a defining image/legacy of the Trump/Putin summit – politicalbetting.com

AI? No it’s not. Russian media is circulating footage of Russians assaulting Ukrainian positions in Zaporizhzhia while carrying an American flag. A pathetic propaganda stunt that only underscores Moscow’s desperation. pic.twitter.com/lvMMMaib3A

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,646
    You have to wonder just how popular "Trump is Putin's Bitch" is with the MAGA crowd?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,361
    It also highlights Trump’s desperation to do a deal, any deal, with Russia, as long as it benefits himself.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,662
    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,924

    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?

    It is actually quite difficult to imagine what they could have that is worse than what is already known.

    Financial fraud? New York has exposed it.

    Sexual shenanigans? Those who don't know how close Trump was to Epstein and what that meant is so stupid they ought to be President themselves.

    Mental incapacity? The sharks wave hello.

    Corruption? He appointed Pete Fucking Hegseth to a post.

    So what could they have? That he was a paid agent of the KGB? Frankly seems unlikely.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,260
    US being half of USSR.
  • ydoethur said:

    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?

    It is actually quite difficult to imagine what they could have that is worse than what is already known.

    Financial fraud? New York has exposed it.

    Sexual shenanigans? Those who don't know how close Trump was to Epstein and what that meant is so stupid they ought to be President themselves.

    Mental incapacity? The sharks wave hello.

    Corruption? He appointed Pete Fucking Hegseth to a post.

    So what could they have? That he was a paid agent of the KGB? Frankly seems unlikely.
    They caught on tape a moment of him being calm, rational and reasonable.

    It was so out of character they locked it away.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,646
    ydoethur said:

    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?

    It is actually quite difficult to imagine what they could have that is worse than what is already known.

    Financial fraud? New York has exposed it.

    Sexual shenanigans? Those who don't know how close Trump was to Epstein and what that meant is so stupid they ought to be President themselves.

    Mental incapacity? The sharks wave hello.

    Corruption? He appointed Pete Fucking Hegseth to a post.

    So what could they have? That he was a paid agent of the KGB? Frankly seems unlikely.
    Russia manipulated the election. Trump didn't win fair and square. That would fuck all of them...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,924

    US being half of USSR.

    They CC in Trump.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,975
    ydoethur said:

    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?

    It is actually quite difficult to imagine what they could have that is worse than what is already known.

    Financial fraud? New York has exposed it.

    Sexual shenanigans? Those who don't know how close Trump was to Epstein and what that meant is so stupid they ought to be President themselves.

    Mental incapacity? The sharks wave hello.

    Corruption? He appointed Pete Fucking Hegseth to a post.

    So what could they have? That he was a paid agent of the KGB? Frankly seems unlikely.
    It’s unlikely because that wouldn’t be the way Trump operates.

    What he would suggest and use is a shell company paying over the odds to rent a hotel room in a trump hotel or office block
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,801
    Good trolling by the Russians considering how besotted Americans are with that ugly rag.

    Really you might think that the Russians had overreached, but it doesn't seem possible with this bizarrely masochistic administration or the mulishly stupid Republican base.
  • Trump is so venal, greedy and self-interested that the idea a KGB agent could have both flattered him and then got him to do something for money doesn't seem at all beyond the realms of possibility.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,434
    Good afternoon

    What time does this charade start, as I expect it to be the confirmation of Trump and Putin's love in as Europe looks on helpless and impotent

    Sky reporting all the nations flags were put out on display including NATOs, but ominously that flag was unceremoniously removed apparently not to annoy Putin

    These are dark days, especially for Europe who seem to have no choice but to spend many billions on defending their eastern border from a smug and dangerous Putin

    I hope I am wrong, but all the signs are there unfortunately
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,620
    Ronald Reagan will be spinning in his grave :(
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,460

    I recently opened a company selling trampolines disguised as prayer mats.

    Prophets are going through the roof.

    Reported under the OSA
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851

    ydoethur said:

    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?

    It is actually quite difficult to imagine what they could have that is worse than what is already known.

    Financial fraud? New York has exposed it.

    Sexual shenanigans? Those who don't know how close Trump was to Epstein and what that meant is so stupid they ought to be President themselves.

    Mental incapacity? The sharks wave hello.

    Corruption? He appointed Pete Fucking Hegseth to a post.

    So what could they have? That he was a paid agent of the KGB? Frankly seems unlikely.
    They caught on tape a moment of him being calm, rational and reasonable.

    It was so out of character they locked it away.
    Evidence of him reading a serious novel, perhaps, or listening to a violin concerto. That would screw him with the base.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,567
    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851
    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,460

    Ronald Reagan will be spinning in his grave :(

    Talking of Reagan

    https://youtube.com/shorts/J5upAEZOchM?si=9dCLTbLb7u_TFAO5

    His last speech as president. Aside from the material, this was the man that people have claimed was a vegetable by 1988.

    Compare and contrast with the word salads of the Orange One.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,620
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    And on that bombshell...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,581
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,260
    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Farmers forever holding out the begging bowl.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,581
    Leaving aside the obvious issues with the current American government, why does anyone trust Putin and the Russian regime?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,368
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Ed is subsidising foreign car makers. Almost nothing on the government's list is made here.
    https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-vehicle-grants
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,460

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Ed is subsidising foreign car makers. Almost nothing on the government's list is made here.
    https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-vehicle-grants
    Why not implement my suggestion - a subsidy per watt of vehicle power storage actually delivered in a vehicle. Scaled according to uk content.

    That should get battery factories being built in the UK.

    It wouldn’t require money up front - subsidy is on delivery.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,990
    "Two-tier Justice is Wrong
    Jacob Rees-Mogg"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKN174fluFQ
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,898
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,646
    This doesn't sound like someone in control of events

    https://x.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1957461232866426997
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Ed is subsidising foreign car makers. Almost nothing on the government's list is made here.
    https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-vehicle-grants
    Some of those are, I think?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,368
    Andy_JS said:

    "Two-tier Justice is Wrong
    Jacob Rees-Mogg"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKN174fluFQ

    Jacob has stopped dying his hair.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,581
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Why?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,350
    Protester arrested over ‘Plasticine Action’ T-shirt

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/18/protester-arrested-wearing-plasticine-action-t-shirt-palestine-gaza-protest
    ..He had been arrested under section 13 of the Terrorism Act 2000, which makes it an offence to wear anything supporting a proscribed organisation. A senior officer asked the arresting officer if he could arrest Pickering under section 12, which could have brought a more serious charge of supporting a proscribed group.

    “[The arresting officer] said: ‘No, I can’t.’ And they said: ‘Why not?’ He said: ‘Because he hasn’t got Palestine Action written on him. He’s got Plasticine Action written on him.’”


    About five minutes later, the arresting officer approached him again. “He said: ‘I’ve got good news and I’ve got bad news.’ I said: ‘What’s the good news?’ He said: ‘I’m de-arresting you.’

    “And I said: ‘What’s the bad news?’ He said: ‘It’s going to be really embarrassing for me.’..


    That's not bad news.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,482
    ydoethur said:

    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?

    It is actually quite difficult to imagine what they could have that is worse than what is already known.

    Financial fraud? New York has exposed it.

    Sexual shenanigans? Those who don't know how close Trump was to Epstein and what that meant is so stupid they ought to be President themselves.

    Mental incapacity? The sharks wave hello.

    Corruption? He appointed Pete Fucking Hegseth to a post.

    So what could they have? That he was a paid agent of the KGB? Frankly seems unlikely.
    Given Trump's proclivities, which are on record as he's never been shy about them, you would have to assume that anything that would give Russia leverage is worse than what is already known about Trump. There's really only one thing worse that what we either already know about or suspect about Trump, and that is murder. That would give Russia leverage, I don't think even the MAGA/GOP could brush that away.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,350

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Ed is subsidising foreign car makers. Almost nothing on the government's list is made here.
    https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-vehicle-grants
    That's because most EVs aren't.

    The time to be worried about this was around a decade ago.
    As I was saying at the time.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,368
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Ed is subsidising foreign car makers. Almost nothing on the government's list is made here.
    https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-vehicle-grants
    Some of those are, I think?
    Some but almost none. Pass the URL to your favourite AI machine and ask it where the listed vehicles are built and it will come back looking like Leon's expense claims.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,567

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    You only have to see the reaction of farmers to Clarkson’s show. It’s the best thing that’s happened to rural communities for decades.

    Someone needs to get it into SirKeir and Miliband’s heads that economic growth is inversely proportional to energy prices, pretty much more so than any other single factor. Will it take Ineos closing their Grangemouth factory for them to wake up - or will they think of the factory closing as a positive development, even if the net result is the same production outsourced overseas where there’s fewer carbon targets?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,662
    ydoethur said:

    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?

    It is actually quite difficult to imagine what they could have that is worse than what is already known.

    Financial fraud? New York has exposed it.

    Sexual shenanigans? Those who don't know how close Trump was to Epstein and what that meant is so stupid they ought to be President themselves.

    Mental incapacity? The sharks wave hello.

    Corruption? He appointed Pete Fucking Hegseth to a post.

    So what could they have? That he was a paid agent of the KGB? Frankly seems unlikely.
    Unpaid agent...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    He's only been in a year. To me he looks like a cabinet minister with a strong sense of direction who's across his brief. Let's see how his decisions pan out over a term. I agree that our energy costs relative to other countries is a key metric. You don't want to succeed on emissions at the expense of growth and living standards.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,581
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    He's only been in a year. To me he looks like a cabinet minister with a strong sense of direction who's across his brief. Let's see how his decisions pan out over a term. I agree that our energy costs relative to other countries is a key metric. You don't want to succeed on emissions at the expense of growth and living standards.
    "strong sense of direction"

    LOL. Again, why?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,924

    ydoethur said:

    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?

    It is actually quite difficult to imagine what they could have that is worse than what is already known.

    Financial fraud? New York has exposed it.

    Sexual shenanigans? Those who don't know how close Trump was to Epstein and what that meant is so stupid they ought to be President themselves.

    Mental incapacity? The sharks wave hello.

    Corruption? He appointed Pete Fucking Hegseth to a post.

    So what could they have? That he was a paid agent of the KGB? Frankly seems unlikely.
    Unpaid agent...
    The old fool negotiated his own contract, did he?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,924
    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?

    It is actually quite difficult to imagine what they could have that is worse than what is already known.

    Financial fraud? New York has exposed it.

    Sexual shenanigans? Those who don't know how close Trump was to Epstein and what that meant is so stupid they ought to be President themselves.

    Mental incapacity? The sharks wave hello.

    Corruption? He appointed Pete Fucking Hegseth to a post.

    So what could they have? That he was a paid agent of the KGB? Frankly seems unlikely.
    Given Trump's proclivities, which are on record as he's never been shy about them, you would have to assume that anything that would give Russia leverage is worse than what is already known about Trump. There's really only one thing worse that what we either already know about or suspect about Trump, and that is murder. That would give Russia leverage, I don't think even the MAGA/GOP could brush that away.
    That seems very optimistic to me. They didn't care about the murders in the not-at-all-Trump-incited-attempted-coup aka the Capitol Riots. Why would they care about finding Trump had bumped off business rivals or inconvenient mistresses?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Ed is subsidising foreign car makers. Almost nothing on the government's list is made here.
    https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-vehicle-grants
    Some of those are, I think?
    Some but almost none. Pass the URL to your favourite AI machine and ask it where the listed vehicles are built and it will come back looking like Leon's expense claims.
    I don't do AI. I'm a holdout. But at least a couple on there have UK plants, I think. Could be wrong, I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the topic.

    But anyway, what can you do if we're not making these things? That state of affairs is inherited by this government not created by it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,368
    Ozzy Osbourne documentary pulled from BBC's schedule - without explanation
    https://news.sky.com/story/ozzy-osbourne-documentary-pulled-from-bbcs-schedule-without-explanation-13414083
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,361
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    You only have to see the reaction of farmers to Clarkson’s show. It’s the best thing that’s happened to rural communities for decades.

    Someone needs to get it into SirKeir and Miliband’s heads that economic growth is inversely proportional to energy prices, pretty much more so than any other single factor. Will it take Ineos closing their Grangemouth factory for them to wake up - or will they think of the factory closing as a positive development, even if the net result is the same production outsourced overseas where there’s fewer carbon targets?
    They will see the closing of Grangemouth as a positive development as it will make Scotland more dependent on England.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,567
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    He's only been in a year. To me he looks like a cabinet minister with a strong sense of direction who's across his brief. Let's see how his decisions pan out over a term. I agree that our energy costs relative to other countries is a key metric. You don't want to succeed on emissions at the expense of growth and living standards.
    He does indeed have a strong sense of direction.

    The problem is that it’s entirely the wrong direction, he appears to sincerely believe that meeting international Net Zero targets is more important than British industry or maintaining economic growth and living standards.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,368
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Ed is subsidising foreign car makers. Almost nothing on the government's list is made here.
    https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-vehicle-grants
    Some of those are, I think?
    Some but almost none. Pass the URL to your favourite AI machine and ask it where the listed vehicles are built and it will come back looking like Leon's expense claims.
    I don't do AI. I'm a holdout. But at least a couple on there have UK plants, I think. Could be wrong, I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the topic.

    But anyway, what can you do if we're not making these things? That state of affairs is inherited by this government not created by it.
    Well, we could subsidise the ones that are made here, or leave it to the market since the site claims it is cheaper anyway. Or see @Malmesbury's post.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,581
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Ed is subsidising foreign car makers. Almost nothing on the government's list is made here.
    https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-vehicle-grants
    Some of those are, I think?
    Some but almost none. Pass the URL to your favourite AI machine and ask it where the listed vehicles are built and it will come back looking like Leon's expense claims.
    I don't do AI. I'm a holdout. But at least a couple on there have UK plants, I think. Could be wrong, I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the topic.

    But anyway, what can you do if we're not making these things? That state of affairs is inherited by this government not created by it.
    He was also in the same role under Brown. And he appears to have learnt nothing in the 14 years between.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851
    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?

    It is actually quite difficult to imagine what they could have that is worse than what is already known.

    Financial fraud? New York has exposed it.

    Sexual shenanigans? Those who don't know how close Trump was to Epstein and what that meant is so stupid they ought to be President themselves.

    Mental incapacity? The sharks wave hello.

    Corruption? He appointed Pete Fucking Hegseth to a post.

    So what could they have? That he was a paid agent of the KGB? Frankly seems unlikely.
    Given Trump's proclivities, which are on record as he's never been shy about them, you would have to assume that anything that would give Russia leverage is worse than what is already known about Trump. There's really only one thing worse that what we either already know about or suspect about Trump, and that is murder. That would give Russia leverage, I don't think even the MAGA/GOP could brush that away.
    That seems very optimistic to me. They didn't care about the murders in the not-at-all-Trump-incited-attempted-coup aka the Capitol Riots. Why would they care about finding Trump had bumped off business rivals or inconvenient mistresses?
    He once said - joking not joking - he could shoot somebody on 7th avenue and his base would still love him. Much of his steamrollering lack of regard for behavioural norms stems from this, I think.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,749
    Fishing said:

    Good trolling by the Russians considering how besotted Americans are with that ugly rag.

    Really you might think that the Russians had overreached, but it doesn't seem possible with this bizarrely masochistic administration or the mulishly stupid Republican base.

    It's been said that one of the attractions of supporting Trump was that it, "annoyed all the right people."

    This makes it very hard for Republicans to admit to having made a mistake in backing Trump, because nothing would make liberals happier than to see Trump receive a kicking from his own side. So they're prisoners of their past decisions.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,350
    If there is one lesson Ukraine learned from its history — be it Budapest memorandum of 1994, Minsk 1 in 2014 and Minsk 2 in 2015 — is that whatever it surrenders to Russia will be used to kill more Ukrainians, and the Western powers that issued security assurances will stand by and express grave concern.
    https://x.com/yarotrof/status/1957118953139917211
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,567
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,581
    Nigelb said:

    If there is one lesson Ukraine learned from its history — be it Budapest memorandum of 1994, Minsk 1 in 2014 and Minsk 2 in 2015 — is that whatever it surrenders to Russia will be used to kill more Ukrainians, and the Western powers that issued security assurances will stand by and express grave concern.
    https://x.com/yarotrof/status/1957118953139917211

    Exactly.

    And anyone saying "this time it will be different!" has to explain *why* it'll be different.
  • Nigelb said:

    If there is one lesson Ukraine learned from its history — be it Budapest memorandum of 1994, Minsk 1 in 2014 and Minsk 2 in 2015 — is that whatever it surrenders to Russia will be used to kill more Ukrainians, and the Western powers that issued security assurances will stand by and express grave concern.
    https://x.com/yarotrof/status/1957118953139917211

    Exactly.

    And anyone saying "this time it will be different!" has to explain *why* it'll be different.
    This time we are going into it knowing the security guarantees are utterly worthless.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,749

    Nigelb said:

    If there is one lesson Ukraine learned from its history — be it Budapest memorandum of 1994, Minsk 1 in 2014 and Minsk 2 in 2015 — is that whatever it surrenders to Russia will be used to kill more Ukrainians, and the Western powers that issued security assurances will stand by and express grave concern.
    https://x.com/yarotrof/status/1957118953139917211

    Exactly.

    And anyone saying "this time it will be different!" has to explain *why* it'll be different.
    The only way it will be different is by an agreement following a Russian defeat.

    If we want the war to end we have to win it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,350
    edited August 18
    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925
  • Nigelb said:

    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925

    Is that quote about Trump or Putin?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    He's only been in a year. To me he looks like a cabinet minister with a strong sense of direction who's across his brief. Let's see how his decisions pan out over a term. I agree that our energy costs relative to other countries is a key metric. You don't want to succeed on emissions at the expense of growth and living standards.
    "strong sense of direction"

    LOL. Again, why?
    What do you mean, why? I listen to him and to me he clearly does. How else would I judge him?

    You can disagree with him but that's a different matter.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,749

    Nigelb said:

    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925

    Is that quote about Trump or Putin?
    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    The sad thing being that Trump would regard that as a compliment.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,350
    Sandpit said:
    I suppose it's too much to hope that we're sending him to the French on a '1 in 1 out' basis?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,662
    Nigelb said:

    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925

    Rubio is a tiny man much diminshed by crawling up Trump's arse.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,350
    ...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,662

    Nigelb said:

    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925

    Is that quote about Trump or Putin?
    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    The sad thing being that Trump would regard that as a compliment.
    That he might be thought a man?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Why?
    Why do you keep chuntering "why" at me?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,646
    Sandpit said:
    He landed some time ago
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,350
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    He's only been in a year. To me he looks like a cabinet minister with a strong sense of direction who's across his brief. Let's see how his decisions pan out over a term. I agree that our energy costs relative to other countries is a key metric. You don't want to succeed on emissions at the expense of growth and living standards.
    "strong sense of direction"

    LOL. Again, why?
    What do you mean, why? I listen to him and to me he clearly does. How else would I judge him?

    You can disagree with him but that's a different matter.
    I would tend to agree the he has a 'strong sense of direction'. The problem is, it's not in the direction to a destination that anyone in their right mind would like to go to.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,620

    Nigelb said:

    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925

    Is that quote about Trump or Putin?
    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    The sad thing being that Trump would regard that as a compliment.
    "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,924

    Nigelb said:

    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925

    Is that quote about Trump or Putin?
    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    The sad thing being that Trump would regard that as a compliment.
    Yes, but a pig is on the line and is threatening an action for defamation.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,924
    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:
    He landed some time ago
    Delays just get worse and worse, the world over.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,368
    Sandpit said:
    The real Keir or a body double?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,646

    Nigelb said:

    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925

    Rubio is a tiny man much diminshed by crawling up Trump's arse.
    There is a constant debate about "balance" in broadcasting, and whether giving equal time to a an accredited expert and a crank conspiracist represents balance, or just bad editorial policy

    My solution is every time a politician appears on TV 'balance' that with clips of saying the opposite
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,350

    Nigelb said:

    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925

    Is that quote about Trump or Putin?
    Yes.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851
    Andy_JS said:

    "Two-tier Justice is Wrong
    Jacob Rees-Mogg"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKN174fluFQ

    It is, Jacob, yes.

    But it's hard to stop wealthy people using their power and resource to achieve better outcomes.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,646
    Zelensky arriving now
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,791
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925

    Rubio is a tiny man much diminshed by crawling up Trump's arse.
    There is a constant debate about "balance" in broadcasting, and whether giving equal time to a an accredited expert and a crank conspiracist represents balance, or just bad editorial policy

    My solution is every time a politician appears on TV 'balance' that with clips of saying the opposite
    When a weather presenter says it will be fine tomorrow, do they then put up another who gives the contrary view?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,789

    Nigelb said:

    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925

    Is that quote about Trump or Putin?
    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    The sad thing being that Trump would regard that as a compliment.
    "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig."
    Yeah, but what a pig ..
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,699
    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    It's the same old same old criticism: we shouldn't do a small thing because we can't do a big thing.

    We used to be >1%, not <1%, but we did something about it, and we should go on doing something about it because climate change is hurting all of us. It's hurting us economically, it's hurting our agriculture, it's hurting rural livelihoods. And having achieved net zero, we can go sell our expertise in China.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,411
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    He's only been in a year. To me he looks like a cabinet minister with a strong sense of direction who's across his brief. Let's see how his decisions pan out over a term. I agree that our energy costs relative to other countries is a key metric. You don't want to succeed on emissions at the expense of growth and living standards.
    "strong sense of direction"

    LOL. Again, why?
    What do you mean, why? I listen to him and to me he clearly does. How else would I judge him?

    You can disagree with him but that's a different matter.
    We have to pay electricity generators to shut down because the previous government did not improve the grid connectivity or electricity storage sufficiently. We have the highest energy prices because we have marginal pricing that is set by gas power stations the majority of the time.

    BESS, pump storage and new powerlines take longer than a year to deliver.

    Miliband proposals for storage
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/07/26/miliband-eyes-battery-bonanza-to-cut-wind-farm-costs/
    Miliband proposals for pylons
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/07/09/miliband-steamroll-nimbys-new-pylon-powers/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,567

    Sandpit said:
    The real Keir or a body double?
    If he starts ranting to Trump about what’s new in the cinema this week, then we can safely assume the latter.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,749

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    "Habitually lies...he's never kept any deal he ever signed.. he plays us like a violin..."

    Welker plays Rubio a clip of him saying in 2022 that "you can't cut deals with guys" like Putin
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957085963760402925

    Rubio is a tiny man much diminshed by crawling up Trump's arse.
    There is a constant debate about "balance" in broadcasting, and whether giving equal time to a an accredited expert and a crank conspiracist represents balance, or just bad editorial policy

    My solution is every time a politician appears on TV 'balance' that with clips of saying the opposite
    When a weather presenter says it will be fine tomorrow, do they then put up another who gives the contrary view?
    They're normally pretty good about making it clear where the uncertainty is.

    Accurate forecast today for thunderstorms in Cork, Kerry and Limerick.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,350

    Sandpit said:
    The real Keir or a body double?
    Don't fret - when he launches into an impassioned speech that only a seasoned and professional Prime Minister could deliver, we'll know it's a body double.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,377
    News from my neck of the woods

    https://nation.cymru/news/welsh-conservative-councillor-defects-to-reform/

    "Swansea has its first Reform UK councillor after Cllr Francesca O’Brien, who represents Mumbles, joined the party.

    The former Welsh Conservative was first elected to the council in 2022 and described Reform UK as the only chance to break the “Labour-Plaid consensus in Cardiff Bay and create a government in Wales that understands the concerns of ordinary people”.

    Cllr O’Brien had stood as a prospective Conservative MP for Gower in the 2019 general election, finishing second behind Labour’s Tonia Antoniazzi.
    "
  • glwglw Posts: 10,482
    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    The ashen-faces on Trump's inner circle coming out of the Alaska meeting makes you think: did Putin obliquely reference what he has on file if he doesn't get the deal he wants?

    It is actually quite difficult to imagine what they could have that is worse than what is already known.

    Financial fraud? New York has exposed it.

    Sexual shenanigans? Those who don't know how close Trump was to Epstein and what that meant is so stupid they ought to be President themselves.

    Mental incapacity? The sharks wave hello.

    Corruption? He appointed Pete Fucking Hegseth to a post.

    So what could they have? That he was a paid agent of the KGB? Frankly seems unlikely.
    Given Trump's proclivities, which are on record as he's never been shy about them, you would have to assume that anything that would give Russia leverage is worse than what is already known about Trump. There's really only one thing worse that what we either already know about or suspect about Trump, and that is murder. That would give Russia leverage, I don't think even the MAGA/GOP could brush that away.
    That seems very optimistic to me. They didn't care about the murders in the not-at-all-Trump-incited-attempted-coup aka the Capitol Riots. Why would they care about finding Trump had bumped off business rivals or inconvenient mistresses?
    Trump seems to be able to deflect or dodge accusations of sexual assualt and rape with little affect on his standing with the GOP, and yet Russian and Putin still appear to have some leverage over him. What is it that gives them this control? It's not merely flattery, Trump's greed, or inclination to ape authoritarian leaders, there does seem to be some hold exerted on him by Putin, that someone like Xi doesn't have. Even Trump's recent tough talking about Putin now appears to have only been for show. No other leader or country gets similar deference, Trump acts as though Russia holds the cards and wields power, not he and the US.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    He's only been in a year. To me he looks like a cabinet minister with a strong sense of direction who's across his brief. Let's see how his decisions pan out over a term. I agree that our energy costs relative to other countries is a key metric. You don't want to succeed on emissions at the expense of growth and living standards.
    He does indeed have a strong sense of direction.

    The problem is that it’s entirely the wrong direction, he appears to sincerely believe that meeting international Net Zero targets is more important than British industry or maintaining economic growth and living standards.
    I don't think he believes that at all.
  • Sandpit said:
    The real Keir or a body double?
    Don't fret - when he launches into an impassioned speech that only a seasoned and professional Prime Minister could deliver, we'll know it's a body double.
    Brilliant analysis..😆
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    He's only been in a year. To me he looks like a cabinet minister with a strong sense of direction who's across his brief. Let's see how his decisions pan out over a term. I agree that our energy costs relative to other countries is a key metric. You don't want to succeed on emissions at the expense of growth and living standards.
    "strong sense of direction"

    LOL. Again, why?
    What do you mean, why? I listen to him and to me he clearly does. How else would I judge him?

    You can disagree with him but that's a different matter.
    I would tend to agree the he has a 'strong sense of direction'. The problem is, it's not in the direction to a destination that anyone in their right mind would like to go to.
    But you think climate change is a hoax, don't you. So that gives you a different perspective on things.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,581
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    He's only been in a year. To me he looks like a cabinet minister with a strong sense of direction who's across his brief. Let's see how his decisions pan out over a term. I agree that our energy costs relative to other countries is a key metric. You don't want to succeed on emissions at the expense of growth and living standards.
    "strong sense of direction"

    LOL. Again, why?
    What do you mean, why? I listen to him and to me he clearly does. How else would I judge him?

    You can disagree with him but that's a different matter.
    Well, I listen to him too, and I get zero sense he knows about the energy sector *as a whole*. Green energy and net zero; yes. But the energy sector is about a darned sight more than that, and needs to be treated as a totality.

    It seems to me that he thinks 'Net Zero' is a vote winner, and therefore that's what he concentrates on. Sadly, the issues facing energy are much bigger than that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,567
    CatMan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:
    He landed some time ago
    Delays just get worse and worse, the world over.
    Bring back Concorde. It may not have been as big as Air Force One, but it was better.
    I remember when Thatcher and Major would take the occasional big overseas trip on Concorde.

    What a statement of arrival, that only the French could also replicate, neither the Americans nor the Soviets (although the latter tried and failed).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,581
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Why?
    Why do you keep chuntering "why" at me?
    'keep'?

    I've asked in a couple of posts today. And that was because you made statements of opinion, and I wanted to explore your thinking a little more.

    But it appears you had none... ;)
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,791
    I am glad that Europe is showing a united front here, or at least looks to be.

    This has all the sings of an unedifying spectacle, but I hope that the European leaders at the WH today can at least say they tried.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Ed is subsidising foreign car makers. Almost nothing on the government's list is made here.
    https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-vehicle-grants
    Some of those are, I think?
    Some but almost none. Pass the URL to your favourite AI machine and ask it where the listed vehicles are built and it will come back looking like Leon's expense claims.
    I don't do AI. I'm a holdout. But at least a couple on there have UK plants, I think. Could be wrong, I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the topic.

    But anyway, what can you do if we're not making these things? That state of affairs is inherited by this government not created by it.
    He was also in the same role under Brown. And he appears to have learnt nothing in the 14 years between.
    He doesn't come over to me as somebody stuck in the past. A touch dogmatic, maybe, but that often comes with a strong sense of mission.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,350
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    He's only been in a year. To me he looks like a cabinet minister with a strong sense of direction who's across his brief. Let's see how his decisions pan out over a term. I agree that our energy costs relative to other countries is a key metric. You don't want to succeed on emissions at the expense of growth and living standards.
    "strong sense of direction"

    LOL. Again, why?
    What do you mean, why? I listen to him and to me he clearly does. How else would I judge him?

    You can disagree with him but that's a different matter.
    I would tend to agree the he has a 'strong sense of direction'. The problem is, it's not in the direction to a destination that anyone in their right mind would like to go to.
    But you think climate change is a hoax, don't you. So that gives you a different perspective on things.
    Yes, were I more fervent on the climate crisis, I'd be even angrier that Mental Milly is offshoring our manufacturing industry to big polluters China and India, and importing tankers of Saudi LNG and killing our own oil and gas industry.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,791
    This does have the feel of Starmer et al being Zelensky’s designated colleague/union rep at the grievance meeting though.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,851

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Ed is subsidising foreign car makers. Almost nothing on the government's list is made here.
    https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-vehicle-grants
    Some of those are, I think?
    Some but almost none. Pass the URL to your favourite AI machine and ask it where the listed vehicles are built and it will come back looking like Leon's expense claims.
    I don't do AI. I'm a holdout. But at least a couple on there have UK plants, I think. Could be wrong, I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the topic.

    But anyway, what can you do if we're not making these things? That state of affairs is inherited by this government not created by it.
    Well, we could subsidise the ones that are made here, or leave it to the market since the site claims it is cheaper anyway. Or see @Malmesbury's post.
    Ok but if we want to use subsidies to drive take-up of something that helps with energy transition but is made predominantly overseas there's a conflict between two 'good' things, promoting domestic manufacture and promoting the transition. He's favouring the second. That's ok if it's been properly considered.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,567
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Ed is subsidising foreign car makers. Almost nothing on the government's list is made here.
    https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-vehicle-grants
    Some of those are, I think?
    Some but almost none. Pass the URL to your favourite AI machine and ask it where the listed vehicles are built and it will come back looking like Leon's expense claims.
    I don't do AI. I'm a holdout. But at least a couple on there have UK plants, I think. Could be wrong, I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the topic.

    But anyway, what can you do if we're not making these things? That state of affairs is inherited by this government not created by it.
    Well, we could subsidise the ones that are made here, or leave it to the market since the site claims it is cheaper anyway. Or see @Malmesbury's post.
    Ok but if we want to use subsidies to drive take-up of something that helps with energy transition but is made predominantly overseas there's a conflict between two 'good' things, promoting domestic manufacture and promoting the transition. He's favouring the second. That's ok if it's been properly considered.
    Except that the end result is the most expensive energy in the developed world.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,276
    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Tax farmer wants to be given more money?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,004

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Britiain’s most famous farmer is having a go at Ed Miliband.

    https://x.com/clarksonsfarm1/status/1957419985246015511

    The UK’s net zero plan targets zero emissions by 2050, despite its <1% global emissions compared to China’s >30%. I can’t help but critique the economic cost to agriculture and industry. Subsidies must balance sustainability and rural livelihoods.

    What are your thoughts?

    Ed should come back with his thoughts on sports cars and 1970s rock.
    Miliband does not seem like an expert on energy either.
    I'll take him over Jeremy Clarkson.
    Whatever your thoughts on Clarkson he has done more for farming in this country than a century of government ministers. Of course a lot of the time he is playing a role on camera. But I think he genuinely cares about his farm, about farming and about those around him.

    Miliband is not a realist. He inhabits a dream like world at some distance from reality. There is every reason to embrace green technology and build a better world. But there is also the reality that some energy policies are nonsense, such as paying wind farm owners NOT to generate power. We ought to be benefitting from the huge increases in green energy yet somehow in the UK was are still paying the highest prices. What's gone wrong?
    He's only been in a year. To me he looks like a cabinet minister with a strong sense of direction who's across his brief. Let's see how his decisions pan out over a term. I agree that our energy costs relative to other countries is a key metric. You don't want to succeed on emissions at the expense of growth and living standards.
    "strong sense of direction"

    LOL. Again, why?
    What do you mean, why? I listen to him and to me he clearly does. How else would I judge him?

    You can disagree with him but that's a different matter.
    Well, I listen to him too, and I get zero sense he knows about the energy sector *as a whole*. Green energy and net zero; yes. But the energy sector is about a darned sight more than that, and needs to be treated as a totality.

    It seems to me that he thinks 'Net Zero' is a vote winner, and therefore that's what he concentrates on. Sadly, the issues facing energy are much bigger than that.
    I don't think that's right. 'Net Zero' is a vote loser to Reform currently. But Miliband is a rare principled politician doing what he thinks is right rather than courting voter popularity.
    Of course you can disagree with him, but it's wholly inaccurate to do so on the basis that he's only doing it because it's a vote winner.
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 178
    There must be plenty of people who believe that the largest country in the world being 35 million times the size of the smallest is wholly unjustifiable (or who would reasonably reach this conclusion when given the information).

    And it follows that annexation of further land from a neighbour by this already gargantuan landmass is equally unjustifiable, regardless of anything else, on basic geopolitical grounds. The USSR was too big. The British Empire was too big. Panem was too big (indeed, one can make a fairly reasonable case for the current USA being too big).

    The 'international community' needs to go bold on this one - the optimal solution isn't just for Russia to GTFO of Ukraine - it's for more breakaways. IndieRefs for Chechnya, Siberia, Kaliningrad and anywhere else that might want one. Then do the same thing with China.
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