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Thistle do nicely, a 16% return in 9 months? – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,300

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DM_Andy said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: France's president Emmanuel Macron and Finnish president Alexander Stubb are the latest European leaders to say they will attend Zelenskyy and Trump's meeting

    Is that a good thing? Is this a Z/T meeting or a meeting at which Z/T are among the participants?
    Nobody, including and perhaps least of all, the attendees has any fucking clue. It's make-it-up-as-go-along school of statecraft.

    It's probably a combination of FOMO from the European leaders, nobody wants to be the first lift sanctions on Russia but also they definitely don't want to be the last, and DJT enjoying summoning them across the Atlantic so he can be rude/incomprehensible to them.
    I think they should all send body doubles.
    But really shit ones, like the rubbish waxworks of famous people in those Madame Tussaud’s rip-offs.

    Maybe they could send Mark Kermode for Keir Starmer.

    That's quite a good one. Definitely close enough to fool Trump, I think.
    They could send David Lammy in place of Keir and it would fool Trump.

    They could send a fucking scatter cushion instead of David Lammy, to anywhere on earth, and no one would notice the intellectual difference
    David Lammy, the Harvard-educated lawyer who got Britain a better trade deal?
    No, David Lammy who thinks Henry VII came AFTER Henry VIII
    That would be the Cambridge-educated David Lammy. It's easy to get them confused.
    Point of order, Lammy was educated in Cambridge, Massachusetts, not Cambridge, Cambridgeshire.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,843
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Novelist Sally Rooney says she will support Palestine Action despite ban https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp94jz0y7ygo

    Saying you are going to fund a terrorist organisation is not very smart. Will get you put on all sorts of watch lists.

    I don’t understand why these people instead rather stick to saying they think the act that allows the proscription of groups is ill defined. Therefore no supporting a terrorist group, but the motivation / virtue signalling is the same.

    Would it be "supporting" PA to campaign to legalise it? Might be an interesting Court case, and an obvious freedom of speech issue
    A campaign to overhaul the act isn’t illegal. It might have some unintended consequences of allowing some very nasty groups that your average PA supporter would be decrying in the same breath that they should be banned / supporters locked up.
    But more specifically, say a person goes out and protests not support for PA but only that PA should not be proscribed - is that breaking the law?

    Not expecting you to know, just wondering about that point. Whether saying XYZ shouldn't be called terrorists is deemed to be supporting XYZ.
    There's a court case in November to overturn the proscription of PA so presumably not illegal to say they should be unbanned.
    Ah yes I guess that must be right. Otherwise that legal team couldn't make the case, could they. Which would be absurd and downright sinister.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,551
    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNewsBreak

    Actor Terence Stamp dies at the age of 87

    A Waterloo sunset.

    Terry and Julie cross over the river.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,121
    edited August 17
    Afternoon all :)

    It seems the group of leftie trots who call themselves the horse racing industry has now turned on the Government:

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/britain/british-racing-to-stage-one-day-strike-on-september-10-in-protest-at-tax-plans-aUEGP3k057u5/

    Let's be clear - there's a lot of politics at work in this but the underlying issue is the fear of what will happen of the tax on betting (Betting Duty) is harmonised with the tax on games of chance (Remote Gaming Duty). The former is 15% which comes out of bookies profits (to which as you know I am a regular and valued contributor) and the latter is 21% which comes out of the numbskulls who play the FOBTs in betting shops, mini casinos and the like and includes betting on "virtual" racing at Paddy Park, Comeondowns and all the other ludicrous names for imaginary courses.

    The claim is the industry will "lose" £66 million if the taxes are harmonised and the bookies have to pay more to HMRC. This will ripple back through racing in terms of sponsorship and other areas. At the same time, there's a fear bookies will be less "generous" with their odds forcing serious punters to the black market.

    Needless to say, this won't bother the likes of Coolmore and Godolphin but will likely impact the smaller players (doesn't it always?). The race courses will probably hike their prieces to make up the shortfall and then whinge when they can't get anyone through the gates.

    With foal numbers in decline, the attraction of six race cards with four or five runners in each race isn't obvious from a punting perspective but if you've got £60,000 down the back of the sofa to back the SNP, good luck to you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,283
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Marco Rubio: "Life in America on a daily basis will be largely unaffected whether there's peace in Ukraine or not. That's just a fact. We have a lot of issues we're focused on not just at home, but around the world."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lwm5dmjobz2a

    An interesting take from the SoS in charge of foreign affairs.
    How is he wrong ?
    He's not massively wrong.
    If he's trying to communicate the message that the US has zero interest in Europe, then it would be far better to say that directly.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,946

    eek said:

    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    I can only presume Labour has internal polling or focus group responses that tell them that these attack lines on Reform are going to work, because they seem like transparent bullshit to me, but I’m obviously not the target voter they have in mind:

    “Rayner says Farage ‘failing young women’ with plan to scrap Online Safety Act”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/17/rayner-says-farage-failing-young-women-plan-scrap-online-safety-act

    Either that, or they’re getting a bit panicky about the whole thing. I note in passing that 4Chan have stuck two fingers up to OFCOM after being threatened with a £20k fine plus daily penalties for being in contravention of the OSA.

    It’s also notable that they’re making no effort whatsoever to defend the act itself or engage with any of the criticism of it - it’s all ad hominem attacks on the critics.

    They’re pushing this quite hard: https://x.com/UKLabour/status/1956989437998420209

    Just seems a bit desperate to me: Revenge porn is already illegal in the UK under existing law that predates the OSA IIRC.
    They are desperate to justify the OSA. Which is managing to piss off all the wrong people.

    People love to say “Oh, won’t somebody please think of the children!” - but are rather less keen when *they* are targeted.
    The question I would love to ask is how does the OSA solve anything to do with Revenge porn...
    Ahem


    There is already profitable legal business in using OSA threats against people who are saying inconvenient things.
    I was talking about a specific niche example Labour is talking about today - we know from posts by OGH that the OSA creates a lot of problems for people who run UK based sites... Revenge porn was made illegal in 2015 with the law strengthened in 2021...
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Marco Rubio: "Life in America on a daily basis will be largely unaffected whether there's peace in Ukraine or not. That's just a fact. We have a lot of issues we're focused on not just at home, but around the world."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lwm5dmjobz2a

    An interesting take from the SoS in charge of foreign affairs.
    How is he wrong ?
    He's not massively wrong.
    If he's trying to communicate the message that the US has zero interest in Europe, then it would be far better to say that directly.
    It is good to see European leaders finally getting that message and coming together. I suspect Europe needs to assume this is the standard US position and act accordingly and do more to protect their own interests
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,433
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Novelist Sally Rooney says she will support Palestine Action despite ban https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp94jz0y7ygo

    Saying you are going to fund a terrorist organisation is not very smart. Will get you put on all sorts of watch lists.

    I don’t understand why these people instead rather stick to saying they think the act that allows the proscription of groups is ill defined. Therefore no supporting a terrorist group, but the motivation / virtue signalling is the same.

    Would it be "supporting" PA to campaign to legalise it? Might be an interesting Court case, and an obvious freedom of speech issue
    A campaign to overhaul the act isn’t illegal. It might have some unintended consequences of allowing some very nasty groups that your average PA supporter would be decrying in the same breath that they should be banned / supporters locked up.
    But more specifically, say a person goes out and protests not support for PA but only that PA should not be proscribed - is that breaking the law?

    Not expecting you to know, just wondering about that point. Whether saying XYZ shouldn't be called terrorists is deemed to be supporting XYZ.
    There's a court case in November to overturn the proscription of PA so presumably not illegal to say they should be unbanned.
    Ah yes I guess that must be right. Otherwise that legal team couldn't make the case, could they. Which would be absurd and downright sinister.
    It’s probably illegal to give legal advice that it’s not illegal to suggest unbanning PA.

    Remember - anything that can be done, just inside the law, is legal, moral and completely justified. To say otherwise is to attack the law.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,551
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Have you got any "right -on credentials"? I am not sure I ever had any. Does that mean I can't be a centrist dad after all?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,843
    edited August 17

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    There’s respectable academic literature around the circles of trust - your family, your extended family, your village, etc
    The problematical bit lies amongst the etc.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,445

    Scott_xP said:

    There must come a point (surely) when the US media stops reporting the batshit insane things DementiaDon says, and starts reporting the consequences.

    Inflation is rising. Tariffs are hurting US consumers. Armed vigilanties are detaining citizens in the street. Putin is dictating foreign policy.

    It might be the media that does for The Donald but I suspect he will go the same way as Boris, whose colleagues eventually tired of being sent out to lie for him, only to discover later on that the official story had changed anyway.
    Different power dynamics.

    Boris's ministers knew that they had a mandate and position independent of Big Dog. Their career prospects were enhanced by dumping their leader.

    Donald's ministers are probably out when the Orange One goes. Probably sooner than that, if they are too disloyal too early.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,843

    Andy_JS said:

    "UK Tries to Censor US Website
    The UK's Ofcom tries to censor US website 4chan. This will not end well.
    BlackBeltBarrister"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxpeM7fDiz8

    I think Daniel is missing the point here. Going after 4chan isn't about fining them, Ofcom is not (quite) that stupid. It's about removing them from the internet in the UK. If 4chan doesn't voluntarily pay the fines or implement age verification Ofcom can, and will, instruct ISPs to block the site.

    This is the first step in the Great Firewall of Britain.
    Border control in a sense.

    Stop the Slop!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,650
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    The more interesting thing to watch over the next couple of years will be what - if any - new jobs are created and/or in what areas there will be increased job demand.
    I fear there won’t be half - a quarter - as many created as will be destroyed. Coz of my amateur scribblings in this arena I’ve gained a couple of friends and online acquaintances who are very well informed hereto. Let’s just say one of them works in N1C

    And I have heard and seen scary things

    I say this with no pleasure at all. Quite the opposite. I have two daughters age 19. What will they do?!?
    “Hi Grok, can you write me 800 words on the future job opportunities of junior employees in a new age of technology and AI ubiquity, following the Spectator magazine’s style guide”.

    As for today’s teenagers, either trade school or something that relies on human-to-human contact. That or a PhD in machine learning.

    He’s a good essay on what the next few years might look like. https://x.com/gregisenberg/status/1956703650744578091
    It's a good essay for the gullible. Generative AI will have important impacts, but most of that is fantasy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,843

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Novelist Sally Rooney says she will support Palestine Action despite ban https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp94jz0y7ygo

    Saying you are going to fund a terrorist organisation is not very smart. Will get you put on all sorts of watch lists.

    I don’t understand why these people instead rather stick to saying they think the act that allows the proscription of groups is ill defined. Therefore no supporting a terrorist group, but the motivation / virtue signalling is the same.

    Would it be "supporting" PA to campaign to legalise it? Might be an interesting Court case, and an obvious freedom of speech issue
    A campaign to overhaul the act isn’t illegal. It might have some unintended consequences of allowing some very nasty groups that your average PA supporter would be decrying in the same breath that they should be banned / supporters locked up.
    But more specifically, say a person goes out and protests not support for PA but only that PA should not be proscribed - is that breaking the law?

    Not expecting you to know, just wondering about that point. Whether saying XYZ shouldn't be called terrorists is deemed to be supporting XYZ.
    There's a court case in November to overturn the proscription of PA so presumably not illegal to say they should be unbanned.
    Ah yes I guess that must be right. Otherwise that legal team couldn't make the case, could they. Which would be absurd and downright sinister.
    It’s probably illegal to give legal advice that it’s not illegal to suggest unbanning PA.

    Remember - anything that can be done, just inside the law, is legal, moral and completely justified. To say otherwise is to attack the law.
    Gosh it is a minefield, isn't it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    Morecambe FC have been saved. Wonderful news for their handful of fans.

    https://x.com/the_forty_four/status/1957079676288983536?s=61
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,506

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    The more interesting thing to watch over the next couple of years will be what - if any - new jobs are created and/or in what areas there will be increased job demand.
    I fear there won’t be half - a quarter - as many created as will be destroyed. Coz of my amateur scribblings in this arena I’ve gained a couple of friends and online acquaintances who are very well informed hereto. Let’s just say one of them works in N1C

    And I have heard and seen scary things

    I say this with no pleasure at all. Quite the opposite. I have two daughters age 19. What will they do?!?
    “Hi Grok, can you write me 800 words on the future job opportunities of junior employees in a new age of technology and AI ubiquity, following the Spectator magazine’s style guide”.

    As for today’s teenagers, either trade school or something that relies on human-to-human contact. That or a PhD in machine learning.

    He’s a good essay on what the next few years might look like. https://x.com/gregisenberg/status/1956703650744578091
    It's a good essay for the gullible. Generative AI will have important impacts, but most of that is fantasy.
    It was aimed at an audience of one, and I know he read it because his stalker on Twitter has been talking about it. Mission accomplished!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,146
    Taz said:

    Morecambe FC have been saved. Wonderful news for their handful of fans.

    https://x.com/the_forty_four/status/1957079676288983536?s=61

    Man Utd not so much. So far this season looking like last season.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,843
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,946
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Morecambe FC have been saved. Wonderful news for their handful of fans.

    https://x.com/the_forty_four/status/1957079676288983536?s=61

    Man Utd not so much. So far this season looking like last season.
    I'm expecting Man Utd to end up relegated - it's the natural conclusion to the current story..
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,843
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Surely something must be in motion as half of Europes leaders aren’t going to go all the way to the US for nothing.

    What's in motion is this. Trumpism thinks that the western alliance should be a European thing, not a USA + Europe + Canada thing. The USA sphere of influence is wanted elsewhere.

    Trumpism also thinks that Russia's sphere of influence should include part of eastern Europe, boundaries in the long run to be decided by Russia and Europe, not USA.

    Western Europe wants the alliance to be the whole of NATO, including of course the USA. The USA can abandon Europe whenever it likes but is not yet ready to make it undeniably obvious that it has switched sides. The frog boils more slowly than that.

    Western Europe is wondering how to get ready for that day. And is currently temporising.
    So where do you think he thinks the USA should be directing its economic and military might?
    Interesting questions. On economic might, Trumpism is principally concerned about greater USA wealth, and has mercantilist leanings. Lots more to be said, but IANAE.

    Military might? Trump likes a big military but doesn't want to fight as he doesn't want any dead USA soldiers. The might's first aim is deterrence. My next guesses are these: he wants out of Europe; he wants out of middle east even ultimately Israel except for a deterrent guarantee; he wants his military to protect the interest of the USA in a world of big power bloc spheres of influence.

    Further guesses:
    Taiwan - Trumpism won't support, it's China's if they want it.
    Canada/Greenland: these two targets 100% affirm the 'USA spheres of influence' view.
    Israel: One state solution. protected by USA and Israel's nuclear deterrent. (But in fact insoluble).
    Europe: Not to be USA's direct concern. Two big blocs - Russia+as yet undetermined parts of eastern Europe; and European NATO/EU area.
    International Order: No concern of USA military. International order is for losers.

    (I don't support any of this, but I think Trumpism is broadly along these lines. the current Ukraine/Russia pantomime is WRT to overall picture a little local issue about where the Russia bloc line is drawn in Europe. Trumpism doesn't care about the detail of this.)
    Cheers. That's far more coherent than anything going on in his head, I think. But I note the "ism" which I guess covers that point.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "UK Tries to Censor US Website
    The UK's Ofcom tries to censor US website 4chan. This will not end well.
    BlackBeltBarrister"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxpeM7fDiz8

    4chan’s lawyer’s response to the government is a classic too.

    https://x.com/prestonjbyrne/status/1956391746029428914
    For those who didn’t know - years back, a certain U.K. law firm (and some fellow firms) started selling “libel tourism”.

    That is, anything published on the web is visible in the U.K.

    So under this bit of judicial activism, anyone on the planet could sue for libel in U.K. courts, if it is published online. No problems with the 1st Amendment in the US.

    Big fees would result….

    A cross party group in the US Congress passed a law making the results of any such judgements null and void in the US.

    The U.K. law firms and Mr Justice Cocklecarrot* were very upset.

    *See Private Eye for real name
    That’s been the case even since foreign magazines started to be imported in small numbers.

    For all the politisation and polarisation in the US, one of few things on which all of the politicians agree is that the US is not a fan of foreign courts having jurisdiction over anything or anyone American.
    Quite right too.

    It is undemocratic.
    A country should be able to enforce its laws. The “no assets or operations” is a false logic - according to that theory it’s fine for a North Korean hacking cooperative to rob a French bank
    A country should be able to enforce its laws on its own citizens or those acting in its own country.

    A country should not be able to enforce its laws on citizens of another country acting in another country.

    That becomes the realm of foreign relations instead.

    You indeed can't enforce French laws on North Koreans acting and living in North Korea.

    Quite rightly too the inverse is true, the North Korean dictatorship can't enforce its authoritarian laws on French citizens living in France, nor should it be able to do so.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,146
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Morecambe FC have been saved. Wonderful news for their handful of fans.

    https://x.com/the_forty_four/status/1957079676288983536?s=61

    Man Utd not so much. So far this season looking like last season.
    I'm expecting Man Utd to end up relegated - it's the natural conclusion to the current story..
    Nah, they have spent too much and bought some decent players. Mid table mediocrity beckons, I reckon.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,350

    40 seconds of Russian supermarkets under sanctions showing brand substitution, knock-offs and grey imports:-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/db8vut_9CjQ

    The power of PB. That video has been removed for sanctions-busting or terrorism or whatever else flashed across the Home Secretary's frontal lobe.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,843
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Marco Rubio: "Life in America on a daily basis will be largely unaffected whether there's peace in Ukraine or not. That's just a fact. We have a lot of issues we're focused on not just at home, but around the world."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lwm5dmjobz2a

    An interesting take from the SoS in charge of foreign affairs.
    How is he wrong ?
    Probably isn't. But it's unusual for a foreign affairs bod to downplay the importance of foreign affairs.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Marco Rubio: "Life in America on a daily basis will be largely unaffected whether there's peace in Ukraine or not. That's just a fact. We have a lot of issues we're focused on not just at home, but around the world."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lwm5dmjobz2a

    An interesting take from the SoS in charge of foreign affairs.
    How is he wrong ?
    Probably isn't. But it's unusual for a foreign affairs bod to downplay the importance of foreign affairs.
    Domestic consumption ?

    The good thing to come from this is Europe seems to be waking up to the fact the US is not reliable, is sidelining them, and they need to take our defence seriously.

    I doubt many in the MAGA element care either way who wins. So we need to and Europe needs to work with the U.K. not try to work us over like they do in prior negotiations.

    I suspect the US will be happy for the war to end on current lines and some form of peacekeeping in place in tbe occupied areas.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,594

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "UK Tries to Censor US Website
    The UK's Ofcom tries to censor US website 4chan. This will not end well.
    BlackBeltBarrister"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxpeM7fDiz8

    4chan’s lawyer’s response to the government is a classic too.

    https://x.com/prestonjbyrne/status/1956391746029428914
    For those who didn’t know - years back, a certain U.K. law firm (and some fellow firms) started selling “libel tourism”.

    That is, anything published on the web is visible in the U.K.

    So under this bit of judicial activism, anyone on the planet could sue for libel in U.K. courts, if it is published online. No problems with the 1st Amendment in the US.

    Big fees would result….

    A cross party group in the US Congress passed a law making the results of any such judgements null and void in the US.

    The U.K. law firms and Mr Justice Cocklecarrot* were very upset.

    *See Private Eye for real name
    That’s been the case even since foreign magazines started to be imported in small numbers.

    For all the politisation and polarisation in the US, one of few things on which all of the politicians agree is that the US is not a fan of foreign courts having jurisdiction over anything or anyone American.
    Quite right too.

    It is undemocratic.
    A country should be able to enforce its laws. The “no assets or operations” is a false logic - according to that theory it’s fine for a North Korean hacking cooperative to rob a French bank
    A country should be able to enforce its laws on its own citizens or those acting in its own country.

    A country should not be able to enforce its laws on citizens of another country acting in another country.

    That becomes the realm of foreign relations instead.

    You indeed can't enforce French laws on North Koreans acting and living in North Korea.

    Quite rightly too the inverse is true, the North Korean dictatorship can't enforce its authoritarian laws on French citizens living in France, nor should it be able to do so.
    The issue becomes “what is acting”.

    Disseminating a message in the UK is “acting” in my view. If 4chan were to, for example, call for violent revolution in the UK and execution of all members of the government, I think that should be illegal and something that could be enforced against.

    May be it’s a simple as requiring companies to have a responsible agent - as I believe they do in Brazil - in the country.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,506
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,843

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Have you got any "right -on credentials"? I am not sure I ever had any. Does that mean I can't be a centrist dad after all?
    I'm losing track but I thought Right-On was different to Centrist Dad. So you're ok.

    Me, I'd say I was just a vanilla champagne socialist who prefers beer and sandwiches.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,200
    edited August 17
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    It's quite amusing. There's no need to pooh-pooh anything; this one is self-collapsing afaics.

    The "locking down milk" photo is fake. It's from 2022 when one of the blues (Boris?) was in power, was from Tesco who said back then that the security tags were put on by mistake. AFAICS he's pretending it's current ("now"), or perhaps he believes his stuff.

    The chap seems in practice to be as gormless as Fizzy Lizzy, like most of them.

    I've had a look this afternoon at Farage's right hand Tiktok man that the Guardian had a little go at this morning, and he's the same.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,843
    edited August 17
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Few. But let's you and I watch out for the first outing of "immigrants have destroyed our high trust society" from you know who. Mr Fav for next PM.

    That's if he hasn't started already.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,345
    edited August 17
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    It's quite amusing. There's no need to pooh-pooh anything; this one is self-collapsing afaics.

    The "locking down milk" photo is fake. It's from 2022 when one of the blues (Boris?) was in power, was from Tesco who said back then that the security tags were put on by mistake. AFAICS he's pretending it's current ("now"), or perhaps he believes his stuff.

    The chap seems in practice to be as gormless as Fizzy Lizzy, like most of them.

    I've had a look this afternoon at Farage's right hand Tiktok man that the Guardian had a little go at this morning, and he's the same.
    Being such a prolific landlord, you're missing a real trick not charging rent for the space Liz Truss occupies in your head.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,119
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Have you got any "right -on credentials"? I am not sure I ever had any. Does that mean I can't be a centrist dad after all?
    I'm losing track but I thought Right-On was different to Centrist Dad. So you're ok.

    Me, I'd say I was just a vanilla champagne socialist who prefers beer and sandwiches.
    No, you're the one moved top London who New Model Army sang about:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGpV0Ot3EeM

    :wink:
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,119
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Possibly 'corner shops' in inner city shitholes.

    But not in any supermarket I've been to.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,374
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    It's quite amusing. There's no need to pooh-pooh anything; this one is self-collapsing afaics.

    The "locking down milk" photo is fake. It's from 2022 when one of the blues (Boris?) was in power, was from Tesco who said back then that the security tags were put on by mistake. AFAICS he's pretending it's current ("now"), or perhaps he believes his stuff.

    The chap seems in practice to be as gormless as Fizzy Lizzy, like most of them.

    I've had a look this afternoon at Farage's right hand Tiktok man that the Guardian had a little go at this morning, and he's the same.
    You should never ignore a Pooh-Pooh. I knew someone once who...*insert Blackadder YouTube video here*
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Few. But let's you and I watch out for the first outing of "immigrants have destroyed our high trust society" from you know who. Mr Fav for next PM.

    That's if he hasn't started already.
    He’s too busy flogging soccer shirts. 10,000 in the first hour. Min £39.99 although the ones he autographed are going for £99.99.

    They’re shit but at least they’re not as pitiful as a West Brom shirt.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    CatMan said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    It's quite amusing. There's no need to pooh-pooh anything; this one is self-collapsing afaics.

    The "locking down milk" photo is fake. It's from 2022 when one of the blues (Boris?) was in power, was from Tesco who said back then that the security tags were put on by mistake. AFAICS he's pretending it's current ("now"), or perhaps he believes his stuff.

    The chap seems in practice to be as gormless as Fizzy Lizzy, like most of them.

    I've had a look this afternoon at Farage's right hand Tiktok man that the Guardian had a little go at this morning, and he's the same.
    You should never ignore a Pooh-Pooh. I knew someone once who...*insert Blackadder YouTube video here*
    Someone gets the reference 👍
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,119
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Surely something must be in motion as half of Europes leaders aren’t going to go all the way to the US for nothing.

    What's in motion is this. Trumpism thinks that the western alliance should be a European thing, not a USA + Europe + Canada thing. The USA sphere of influence is wanted elsewhere.

    Trumpism also thinks that Russia's sphere of influence should include part of eastern Europe, boundaries in the long run to be decided by Russia and Europe, not USA.

    Western Europe wants the alliance to be the whole of NATO, including of course the USA. The USA can abandon Europe whenever it likes but is not yet ready to make it undeniably obvious that it has switched sides. The frog boils more slowly than that.

    Western Europe is wondering how to get ready for that day. And is currently temporising.
    So where do you think he thinks the USA should be directing its economic and military might?
    Interesting questions. On economic might, Trumpism is principally concerned about greater USA wealth, and has mercantilist leanings. Lots more to be said, but IANAE.

    Military might? Trump likes a big military but doesn't want to fight as he doesn't want any dead USA soldiers. The might's first aim is deterrence. My next guesses are these: he wants out of Europe; he wants out of middle east even ultimately Israel except for a deterrent guarantee; he wants his military to protect the interest of the USA in a world of big power bloc spheres of influence.

    Further guesses:
    Taiwan - Trumpism won't support, it's China's if they want it.
    Canada/Greenland: these two targets 100% affirm the 'USA spheres of influence' view.
    Israel: One state solution. protected by USA and Israel's nuclear deterrent. (But in fact insoluble).
    Europe: Not to be USA's direct concern. Two big blocs - Russia+as yet undetermined parts of eastern Europe; and European NATO/EU area.
    International Order: No concern of USA military. International order is for losers.

    (I don't support any of this, but I think Trumpism is broadly along these lines. the current Ukraine/Russia pantomime is WRT to overall picture a little local issue about where the Russia bloc line is drawn in Europe. Trumpism doesn't care about the detail of this.)
    Trump, MAGA and many Americans generally think that the USA is already at war and being attacked along its southern border from illegal immigration and from within by 'liberalism'.

    They're not entirely wrong.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    It's quite amusing. There's no need to pooh-pooh anything; this one is self-collapsing afaics.

    The "locking down milk" photo is fake. It's from 2022 when one of the blues (Boris?) was in power, was from Tesco who said back then that the security tags were put on by mistake. AFAICS he's pretending it's current ("now"), or perhaps he believes his stuff.

    The chap seems in practice to be as gormless as Fizzy Lizzy, like most of them.

    I've had a look this afternoon at Farage's right hand Tiktok man that the Guardian had a little go at this morning, and he's the same.
    Is he actually his ‘right hand man’ all seems very exaggerated for effect.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    edited August 17
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,506
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Few. But let's you and I watch out for the first outing of "immigrants have destroyed our high trust society" from you know who. Mr Fav for next PM.

    That's if he hasn't started already.
    He’s too busy flogging soccer shirts. 10,000 in the first hour. Min £39.99 although the ones he autographed are going for £99.99.

    They’re shit but at least they’re not as pitiful as a West Brom shirt.
    Made in Britian, apparently.

    Does the Guardian dare send a photographer to the Leicester sweatshop from where they most likely originate, or is that particular labour abuse not convenient for their wider narrative?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,119
    The Mirror has decided that the answer to Britain's problems is more welfarism as Neil Kinnock shows that he has never read Charles Dickens:

    In an interview with The Mirror, the former Labour leader blamed the Tories for undoing Gordon Brown's proud legacy of cutting child poverty. He said after 14 years the Conservatives left the country in a state that would "make Charles Dickens furious" with "intolerable" hardship.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/scrap-tory-two-child-benefit-35739745

    The Mirror also manages to show that it doesn't know there's a drought as it bewails the possibility of rain in two weeks:

    Horror weather maps show when 600-mile rainstorm will batter UK - 8 counties will avoid

    Mixed weather has dominated the UK throughout the summer, with the fluctuating forecasts to continue as temperatures are set to drop with rainstorms on the horizon.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/horror-weather-maps-show-600-35742473

    It seems that the Mirror has sunk to Express levels of vacuous drivel.

  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    The Mirror has decided that the answer to Britain's problems is more welfarism as Neil Kinnock shows that he has never read Charles Dickens:

    In an interview with The Mirror, the former Labour leader blamed the Tories for undoing Gordon Brown's proud legacy of cutting child poverty. He said after 14 years the Conservatives left the country in a state that would "make Charles Dickens furious" with "intolerable" hardship.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/scrap-tory-two-child-benefit-35739745

    The Mirror also manages to show that it doesn't know there's a drought as it bewails the possibility of rain in two weeks:

    Horror weather maps show when 600-mile rainstorm will batter UK - 8 counties will avoid

    Mixed weather has dominated the UK throughout the summer, with the fluctuating forecasts to continue as temperatures are set to drop with rainstorms on the horizon.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/horror-weather-maps-show-600-35742473

    It seems that the Mirror has sunk to Express levels of vacuous drivel.

    With every pronouncement Kinnock shows he was unfit to be PM and I voted for him twice !!!!

    Isn’t the issue with poverty how it’s measured so it will, effectively, never be solved but always managed. A child is considered to be in poverty if they live in a household with an income below 60% of the current year’s median household income?

    These aren’t kids from a Dickensian novel.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,594
    Taz said:

    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.

    Try supporting Spurs…
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,718
    Been busy elsewhere today.

    Have we talked about the Reform UK football shirts? Have we questioned whether they fall foul of the Public Order Act 1936 Section 1?
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,168
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    Like so much crap coming from the Right today, I don't recognise this "low-trust" society.
    I regularly see bikes or other high value toys left outside by kids overnight, and they are still there next day.
    30 or 40 years ago they would have been pinched.
    When I was a kid, for holidays we went to a caravan in Tenby or Weston or Weymouth and there was an inventory, right down to teaspoons, and heaven help you if there was anything missing when you left..
    Renting holiday cottages with all mod cons today, and things are much more relaxed (apart from re-cycling rules of course).
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,445
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    It's quite amusing. There's no need to pooh-pooh anything; this one is self-collapsing afaics.

    The "locking down milk" photo is fake. It's from 2022 when one of the blues (Boris?) was in power, was from Tesco who said back then that the security tags were put on by mistake. AFAICS he's pretending it's current ("now"), or perhaps he believes his stuff.

    The chap seems in practice to be as gormless as Fizzy Lizzy, like most of them.

    I've had a look this afternoon at Farage's right hand Tiktok man that the Guardian had a little go at this morning, and he's the same.
    Is he actually his ‘right hand man’ all seems very exaggerated for effect.
    Mostly by the Right Hand Man, I suspect. It's the nature of politically-ambitious 23 year olds to portray themselves as much more important than they actually are. Heck, politically-ambitious types of any age do it. So do 23 year olds, whatever their ambition.

    Farage is not responsible for his followers. However, if an unusually large proportion of his close followers turn out to be fruitcakes, loons, closet racists or all three, it out to make one wonder why.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,433

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    Like so much crap coming from the Right today, I don't recognise this "low-trust" society.
    I regularly see bikes or other high value toys left outside by kids overnight, and they are still there next day.
    30 or 40 years ago they would have been pinched.
    When I was a kid, for holidays we went to a caravan in Tenby or Weston or Weymouth and there was an inventory, right down to teaspoons, and heaven help you if there was anything missing when you left..
    Renting holiday cottages with all mod cons today, and things are much more relaxed (apart from re-cycling rules of course).
    An old friend who did history of architecture pointed out many changes - look at old buildings - often narrow windows at ground level, defended by bars. These days, sheets of glass as large as can be conveniently moved and installed (shop windows are generally limited by van size).
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    Been busy elsewhere today.

    Have we talked about the Reform UK football shirts? Have we questioned whether they fall foul of the Public Order Act 1936 Section 1?

    To the former yes, to the latter no. But feel free to crack on.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,594
    Taz said:

    The Mirror has decided that the answer to Britain's problems is more welfarism as Neil Kinnock shows that he has never read Charles Dickens:

    In an interview with The Mirror, the former Labour leader blamed the Tories for undoing Gordon Brown's proud legacy of cutting child poverty. He said after 14 years the Conservatives left the country in a state that would "make Charles Dickens furious" with "intolerable" hardship.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/scrap-tory-two-child-benefit-35739745

    The Mirror also manages to show that it doesn't know there's a drought as it bewails the possibility of rain in two weeks:

    Horror weather maps show when 600-mile rainstorm will batter UK - 8 counties will avoid

    Mixed weather has dominated the UK throughout the summer, with the fluctuating forecasts to continue as temperatures are set to drop with rainstorms on the horizon.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/horror-weather-maps-show-600-35742473

    It seems that the Mirror has sunk to Express levels of vacuous drivel.

    With every pronouncement Kinnock shows he was unfit to be PM and I voted for him twice !!!!

    Isn’t the issue with poverty how it’s measured so it will, effectively, never be solved but always managed. A child is considered to be in poverty if they live in a household with an income below 60% of the current year’s median household income?

    These aren’t kids from a Dickensian novel.
    That was a change that Brown made. Previously it was absolute not relative poverty as a measure
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,350
    Surge in Chinese acquisitions of UK private schools
    Government officials are said to be concerned over the potential influence of the Communist Party after Chinese investors acquire more than 30 institutions

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/surge-in-chinese-acquisitions-of-uk-private-schools-bpmw7r9d5 (£££)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,200
    edited August 17

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic the further splintering of the Unionist vote by the growth of Reform makes it almost inevitable that the SNP will win the most seats. It is doubtful that their rival, Alba, will trouble the scorers or even stand in most places. In light of this the 1/6 for SNP to have most seats does indeed seem quite generous although I agree with @rcs1000 that 12/1 for Reform is pretty generous too. The temptation to put a small bet on both is high.

    Everyone's vote is split - Swinney is trying to pin together an uneasy coalition inside the party, never mind hold all the people who have already gone.

    Reform are very confident of taking a slug of votes off the SNP on a change agenda.

    A lot of SNP last time voters seriously pissed off with the state of things and not listening to the "its the fault of the English" line any more.

    It will be fun!
    At one point I thought we would end up going back to a Labour/Lib Dem coalition as we had before the SNP hegemony but it now looks as if Labour will be too weak and Reform will deny that bloc any kind of majority. I cannot see how we get a viable, stable, rational government out of Holyrood. It might be even worse than what Yousaf and Swinney have served up.
    The sad thing in today's politics is that division rules. The yes crowd are fighting each other. Remain are fighting against the double threat of foreigners and windfarms. The Tories and Remain fighting each other for relevance. Scottish Labour fighting Westminster Labour.

    As you say, forming a coalition out of the kind of Holyrood we are likely to election would be an interesting exercise...
    I'm calling this.

    It will be a minority Green administration, with Confidence and Supply from Labour and the Lib Dems.

    Maybe !

    (It would be fun ... for us down here.)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,506
    Zelensky’s plane just left Brussels, heading for Washington.

    https://x.com/airnavradar/status/1957117951426822169
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,506
    Taz said:

    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.

    It’s going to be another long season for the Man Utd fans.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    It's quite amusing. There's no need to pooh-pooh anything; this one is self-collapsing afaics.

    The "locking down milk" photo is fake. It's from 2022 when one of the blues (Boris?) was in power, was from Tesco who said back then that the security tags were put on by mistake. AFAICS he's pretending it's current ("now"), or perhaps he believes his stuff.

    The chap seems in practice to be as gormless as Fizzy Lizzy, like most of them.

    I've had a look this afternoon at Farage's right hand Tiktok man that the Guardian had a little go at this morning, and he's the same.
    Is he actually his ‘right hand man’ all seems very exaggerated for effect.
    Mostly by the Right Hand Man, I suspect. It's the nature of politically-ambitious 23 year olds to portray themselves as much more important than they actually are. Heck, politically-ambitious types of any age do it. So do 23 year olds, whatever their ambition.

    Farage is not responsible for his followers. However, if an unusually large proportion of his close followers turn out to be fruitcakes, loons, closet racists or all three, it out to make one wonder why.
    As I’ve said about Farage before it’s amazing how many people he’s close to he eventually seems to alienate. To which TSE made the prescient comment along the lines of you meet an arsehole during the day they’re an arsehole. If all you meet in a day is arseholes then the problem is not the,.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,445
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    But do we, as a nation, give a flying one? Are we prepared to pay for more police, courts, custody and probation? All the evidence is that we're not. Not really. So we get the police focussing on the huge crimes of violence, which have to be the priority and where they're not doing badly. And the things that are cheap and easy to do- motoring offences and social media don't exactly need Inspector Morse to solve.

    And discussion of the state of the nation has to start with the observation that a lot of it is the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    Taz said:

    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.

    Try supporting Spurs…
    I’m sure last May you were delighted when Big Ange brought home a major trophy.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,718
    Taz said:

    Been busy elsewhere today.

    Have we talked about the Reform UK football shirts? Have we questioned whether they fall foul of the Public Order Act 1936 Section 1?

    To the former yes, to the latter no. But feel free to crack on.
    I think the Reform football shirts are an inspired piece of political craft - they are going to be everywhere.

    Two problems
    1) The racist loons will also be wearing them whilst doing racist look stuff. Farage will have to deny a lot of thugs are his supporters despite them wearing the uniform
    2) Is a football shirt worn in the context of supporting a political movement a "uniform"? Because political uniforms remain illegal in England, Wales and Scotland thanks to the Public Order Act of 1936 Section 1

    It would take a lunatic activist barrister to try and prosecute this. But we have several to choose from...
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    But do we, as a nation, give a flying one? Are we prepared to pay for more police, courts, custody and probation? All the evidence is that we're not. Not really. So we get the police focussing on the huge crimes of violence, which have to be the priority and where they're not doing badly. And the things that are cheap and easy to do- motoring offences and social media don't exactly need Inspector Morse to solve.

    And discussion of the state of the nation has to start with the observation that a lot of it is the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    We’re always paying more yet nothing improves. Every year in Durham my Police precept goes up well above inflation every year yet little seems to improve and yet the solution is just more money.

    Whenever they dare mentions cuts it is always ‘front line personnel’ they talk about cutting.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,861
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.

    It’s going to be another long season for the Man Utd fans.
    How they enjoyed Liverpools seasons of failure. How everyone else is enjoying theirs…

    But realistically supporting Swindon is great, once you get used to it…
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,741

    Taz said:

    The Mirror has decided that the answer to Britain's problems is more welfarism as Neil Kinnock shows that he has never read Charles Dickens:

    In an interview with The Mirror, the former Labour leader blamed the Tories for undoing Gordon Brown's proud legacy of cutting child poverty. He said after 14 years the Conservatives left the country in a state that would "make Charles Dickens furious" with "intolerable" hardship.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/scrap-tory-two-child-benefit-35739745

    The Mirror also manages to show that it doesn't know there's a drought as it bewails the possibility of rain in two weeks:

    Horror weather maps show when 600-mile rainstorm will batter UK - 8 counties will avoid

    Mixed weather has dominated the UK throughout the summer, with the fluctuating forecasts to continue as temperatures are set to drop with rainstorms on the horizon.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/horror-weather-maps-show-600-35742473

    It seems that the Mirror has sunk to Express levels of vacuous drivel.

    With every pronouncement Kinnock shows he was unfit to be PM and I voted for him twice !!!!

    Isn’t the issue with poverty how it’s measured so it will, effectively, never be solved but always managed. A child is considered to be in poverty if they live in a household with an income below 60% of the current year’s median household income?

    These aren’t kids from a Dickensian novel.
    That was a change that Brown made. Previously it was absolute not relative poverty as a measure
    now it is if you only have a 65" tv and a samsung , rather than 80"+ and an iphone
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    Taz said:

    Been busy elsewhere today.

    Have we talked about the Reform UK football shirts? Have we questioned whether they fall foul of the Public Order Act 1936 Section 1?

    To the former yes, to the latter no. But feel free to crack on.
    I think the Reform football shirts are an inspired piece of political craft - they are going to be everywhere.

    Two problems
    1) The racist loons will also be wearing them whilst doing racist look stuff. Farage will have to deny a lot of thugs are his supporters despite them wearing the uniform
    2) Is a football shirt worn in the context of supporting a political movement a "uniform"? Because political uniforms remain illegal in England, Wales and Scotland thanks to the Public Order Act of 1936 Section 1

    It would take a lunatic activist barrister to try and prosecute this. But we have several to choose from...
    Jolyon, fire up the crowdfunder !
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,119
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    But do we, as a nation, give a flying one? Are we prepared to pay for more police, courts, custody and probation? All the evidence is that we're not. Not really. So we get the police focussing on the huge crimes of violence, which have to be the priority and where they're not doing badly. And the things that are cheap and easy to do- motoring offences and social media don't exactly need Inspector Morse to solve.

    And discussion of the state of the nation has to start with the observation that a lot of it is the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    We’re always paying more yet nothing improves. Every year in Durham my Police precept goes up well above inflation every year yet little seems to improve and yet the solution is just more money.

    Whenever they dare mentions cuts it is always ‘front line personnel’ they talk about cutting.
    Isn't the police precept mostly to fund police pensions ?
  • Like so much crap coming from the Right today, I don't recognise this "low-trust" society.
    I regularly see bikes or other high value toys left outside by kids overnight, and they are still there next day.
    30 or 40 years ago they would have been pinched.

    Agreed, crime in general is much lower today than it was in the 70s or 80s. But it doesn't feel like it to many people because they constantly see criminals getting away with it. Police don't even bother investigating many crimes now.

    Chap I know had his motorcycle stolen. It had a tracker on it and he was able to tell the Police exactly where it was - in someone's garden. They refused to attend and told him not to try and recover the bike, just report it to his insurance. In the end he fetched a burly mate and they got the bike back without any aggro.

    This is the issue. All too often crime is no longer getting punished, and that makes society feel lawless even if it is statistically safer than before.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.

    It’s going to be another long season for the Man Utd fans.
    How they enjoyed Liverpools seasons of failure. How everyone else is enjoying theirs…

    But realistically supporting Swindon is great, once you get used to it…
    I remember being 4-1 up against them at St Andrews, coasting, then Glenn Hoddle turned on the class and Mickey Hazard was inspired. We lost 6-4.

    On the one hand it was devastating to lose from that point, especially in a relegation battle season (we stayed up), but by God that was a sublime performance from Glenn.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,362

    Surge in Chinese acquisitions of UK private schools
    Government officials are said to be concerned over the potential influence of the Communist Party after Chinese investors acquire more than 30 institutions

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/surge-in-chinese-acquisitions-of-uk-private-schools-bpmw7r9d5 (£££)

    Could be worse. Could be Private Equity like water, dentists, vets, holidays etc....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,551
    Taz said:

    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.

    I used to go with a neighbour to St Andrews when Birmingham City were in the second division. I wasn't allowed to go when they played Leeds and Cardiff because of the hooliganism. I never really liked Birmingham except for the exceptional apprentice, Trevor Francis.

    My first Baggies and First Division game was in the first weekend of March 1971 and I went on the bus with my mum to the Hawthorns. George Best scored early on for United and the Baggies won 4-3. I was behind the goal at the Halfords Lane end so I didn't see much. It's been downhill ever since.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,345

    Like so much crap coming from the Right today, I don't recognise this "low-trust" society.
    I regularly see bikes or other high value toys left outside by kids overnight, and they are still there next day.
    30 or 40 years ago they would have been pinched.

    Agreed, crime in general is much lower today than it was in the 70s or 80s. But it doesn't feel like it to many people because they constantly see criminals getting away with it. Police don't even bother investigating many crimes now.

    Chap I know had his motorcycle stolen. It had a tracker on it and he was able to tell the Police exactly where it was - in someone's garden. They refused to attend and told him not to try and recover the bike, just report it to his insurance. In the end he fetched a burly mate and they got the bike back without any aggro.

    This is the issue. All too often crime is no longer getting punished, and that makes society feel lawless even if it is statistically safer than before.
    Show me any statistic that says there's less crime these days and I'll show you something with more holes than a piece of Leerdammer. It's simply not true.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,433
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    It's quite amusing. There's no need to pooh-pooh anything; this one is self-collapsing afaics.

    The "locking down milk" photo is fake. It's from 2022 when one of the blues (Boris?) was in power, was from Tesco who said back then that the security tags were put on by mistake. AFAICS he's pretending it's current ("now"), or perhaps he believes his stuff.

    The chap seems in practice to be as gormless as Fizzy Lizzy, like most of them.

    I've had a look this afternoon at Farage's right hand Tiktok man that the Guardian had a little go at this morning, and he's the same.
    Is he actually his ‘right hand man’ all seems very exaggerated for effect.
    Mostly by the Right Hand Man, I suspect. It's the nature of politically-ambitious 23 year olds to portray themselves as much more important than they actually are. Heck, politically-ambitious types of any age do it. So do 23 year olds, whatever their ambition.

    Farage is not responsible for his followers. However, if an unusually large proportion of his close followers turn out to be fruitcakes, loons, closet racists or all three, it out to make one wonder why.
    As I’ve said about Farage before it’s amazing how many people he’s close to he eventually seems to alienate. To which TSE made the prescient comment along the lines of you meet an arsehole during the day they’re an arsehole. If all you meet in a day is arseholes then the problem is not the,.
    The quote is actually from a character called Raylan Givens, in the US Cop show Justified. Raylan shoots lots of people, but is always Justified.

    “If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.”
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,861
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.

    It’s going to be another long season for the Man Utd fans.
    How they enjoyed Liverpools seasons of failure. How everyone else is enjoying theirs…

    But realistically supporting Swindon is great, once you get used to it…
    I remember being 4-1 up against them at St Andrews, coasting, then Glenn Hoddle turned on the class and Mickey Hazard was inspired. We lost 6-4.

    On the one hand it was devastating to lose from that point, especially in a relegation battle season (we stayed up), but by God that was a sublime performance from Glenn.
    That was a heck of a game. Was working a lunch shift in the pub that ran on so only got the score over the radio at full time. You can imagine how annoyed I was at Birmingham 4… followed by delight at Swindon 6.

    I always wondered if Swindon could have stayed up next year in the premier league if Hoddlechad stayed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,200
    edited August 17

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    It's quite amusing. There's no need to pooh-pooh anything; this one is self-collapsing afaics.

    The "locking down milk" photo is fake. It's from 2022 when one of the blues (Boris?) was in power, was from Tesco who said back then that the security tags were put on by mistake. AFAICS he's pretending it's current ("now"), or perhaps he believes his stuff.

    The chap seems in practice to be as gormless as Fizzy Lizzy, like most of them.

    I've had a look this afternoon at Farage's right hand Tiktok man that the Guardian had a little go at this morning, and he's the same.
    Is he actually his ‘right hand man’ all seems very exaggerated for effect.
    Mostly by the Right Hand Man, I suspect. It's the nature of politically-ambitious 23 year olds to portray themselves as much more important than they actually are. Heck, politically-ambitious types of any age do it. So do 23 year olds, whatever their ambition.

    Farage is not responsible for his followers. However, if an unusually large proportion of his close followers turn out to be fruitcakes, loons, closet racists or all three, it out to make one wonder why.
    His piece is twice as long as my threader the other day (and I clipped a couple of paragraphs off that to be within a few words of the 1000). He's reasonably important - on the Farage core team, and only kept out of a job on the shoulder of the new Mayor of Hull and East Yorkshire by political appointee restrictions for the role.

    Here's the piece - see what you think. To me he is building backwards from the belief that (my phrase) "Standalone UK is an Isolated Island with an Isolated Interest", and working back to a strange version of Victorian mercantilism, and a mechanistic view of Empire. There are all kinds of dodgy stats and a belief that we failed because we did not exploit the countries of the Empire hard enough. He suggests things such as we should have "developed" Ireland by doing a new mass plantation, and has a strangely superficial cherry picking of history.

    He's got a 2.1 Politics degree from KCL, so I would expect some awareness from political history. There also seems to be some unchecked AI. eg:

    "Britain’s subsequent involvement in the Russian Civil War was not popular at home and many thought at the time, what I am writing now, the Daily Express newspaper wrote this in January 1919:

    'the frozen plains of eastern Europe are not worth the bones of a single grenadier'."


    That's actually a fairly classic quote from Otto von Bizmarck. I think the whole thing is a window into how he got into this worldview; there's a lot to learn about how to argue with / persuade them.

    https://jackanderton.com/read/a-self-interested-british-foreign-policy/

  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    Taz said:

    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.

    I used to go with a neighbour to St Andrews when Birmingham City were in the second division. I wasn't allowed to go when they played Leeds and Cardiff because of the hooliganism. I never really liked Birmingham except for the exceptional apprentice, Trevor Francis.

    My first Baggies and First Division game was in the first weekend of March 1971 and I went on the bus with my mum to the Hawthorns. George Best scored early on for United and the Baggies won 4-3. I was behind the goal at the Halfords Lane end so I didn't see much. It's been downhill ever since.
    Your may probably know the theee main characters in the initial series of New Tricks had names bases on West Brom as the writer, Julian Simpson IIRC, was a Baggies fan.

    Leeds and Cardiff rightly have terrible reputations for their fans.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,506
    edited August 17

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    But do we, as a nation, give a flying one? Are we prepared to pay for more police, courts, custody and probation? All the evidence is that we're not. Not really. So we get the police focussing on the huge crimes of violence, which have to be the priority and where they're not doing badly. And the things that are cheap and easy to do- motoring offences and social media don't exactly need Inspector Morse to solve.

    And discussion of the state of the nation has to start with the observation that a lot of it is the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    We’re always paying more yet nothing improves. Every year in Durham my Police precept goes up well above inflation every year yet little seems to improve and yet the solution is just more money.

    Whenever they dare mentions cuts it is always ‘front line personnel’ they talk about cutting.
    Isn't the police precept mostly to fund police pensions ?
    Is the police starting to get like British Airways, where they have more retired pilots than active pilots and many earn more overall in retirement than they did in employment?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Marco Rubio: "Life in America on a daily basis will be largely unaffected whether there's peace in Ukraine or not. That's just a fact. We have a lot of issues we're focused on not just at home, but around the world."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lwm5dmjobz2a

    An interesting take from the SoS in charge of foreign affairs.
    How is he wrong ?
    He's not massively wrong.
    If he's trying to communicate the message that the US has zero interest in Europe, then it would be far better to say that directly.
    Zero interest apart from giving deranged sermons on how Europe, the cradle of civilisation, is descending into totalitarian hell. Perhaps little Marco is so MAGAfied that he believes if he said it directly Europe would stop giving those sermons serious consideration.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.

    It’s going to be another long season for the Man Utd fans.
    How they enjoyed Liverpools seasons of failure. How everyone else is enjoying theirs…

    But realistically supporting Swindon is great, once you get used to it…
    I remember being 4-1 up against them at St Andrews, coasting, then Glenn Hoddle turned on the class and Mickey Hazard was inspired. We lost 6-4.

    On the one hand it was devastating to lose from that point, especially in a relegation battle season (we stayed up), but by God that was a sublime performance from Glenn.
    That was a heck of a game. Was working a lunch shift in the pub that ran on so only got the score over the radio at full time. You can imagine how annoyed I was at Birmingham 4… followed by delight at Swindon 6.

    I always wondered if Swindon could have stayed up next year in the premier league if Hoddlechad stayed.
    It was a lovely warm spring day, the weather was glorious. So many Blues fans left, including my mate Baker. But I just had to stay to the end to see it as the football was just superb. Many of the Blues fans who remained, our attendances were low at the time, applauded Swindon off.

    But we literally ran rings around Swindon by the time we got to 4-1 up.

    Still a gallant loser is a loser.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,551
    edited August 17
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.

    I used to go with a neighbour to St Andrews when Birmingham City were in the second division. I wasn't allowed to go when they played Leeds and Cardiff because of the hooliganism. I never really liked Birmingham except for the exceptional apprentice, Trevor Francis.

    My first Baggies and First Division game was in the first weekend of March 1971 and I went on the bus with my mum to the Hawthorns. George Best scored early on for United and the Baggies won 4-3. I was behind the goal at the Halfords Lane end so I didn't see much. It's been downhill ever since.
    Your may probably know the theee main characters in the initial series of New Tricks had names bases on West Brom as the writer, Julian Simpson IIRC, was a Baggies fan.

    Leeds and Cardiff rightly have terrible reputations for their fans.
    Halford(s), Lane, Standing.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    It's quite amusing. There's no need to pooh-pooh anything; this one is self-collapsing afaics.

    The "locking down milk" photo is fake. It's from 2022 when one of the blues (Boris?) was in power, was from Tesco who said back then that the security tags were put on by mistake. AFAICS he's pretending it's current ("now"), or perhaps he believes his stuff.

    The chap seems in practice to be as gormless as Fizzy Lizzy, like most of them.

    I've had a look this afternoon at Farage's right hand Tiktok man that the Guardian had a little go at this morning, and he's the same.
    Is he actually his ‘right hand man’ all seems very exaggerated for effect.
    Mostly by the Right Hand Man, I suspect. It's the nature of politically-ambitious 23 year olds to portray themselves as much more important than they actually are. Heck, politically-ambitious types of any age do it. So do 23 year olds, whatever their ambition.

    Farage is not responsible for his followers. However, if an unusually large proportion of his close followers turn out to be fruitcakes, loons, closet racists or all three, it out to make one wonder why.
    As I’ve said about Farage before it’s amazing how many people he’s close to he eventually seems to alienate. To which TSE made the prescient comment along the lines of you meet an arsehole during the day they’re an arsehole. If all you meet in a day is arseholes then the problem is not the,.
    The quote is actually from a character called Raylan Givens, in the US Cop show Justified. Raylan shoots lots of people, but is always Justified.

    “If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.”
    I may be misremembering, this may be the quote and it may be you who posted it.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,321
    Phil said:

    I can only presume Labour has internal polling or focus group responses that tell them that these attack lines on Reform are going to work, because they seem like transparent bullshit to me, but I’m obviously not the target voter they have in mind:

    “Rayner says Farage ‘failing young women’ with plan to scrap Online Safety Act”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/17/rayner-says-farage-failing-young-women-plan-scrap-online-safety-act

    Either that, or they’re getting a bit panicky about the whole thing. I note in passing that 4Chan have stuck two fingers up to OFCOM after being threatened with a £20k fine plus daily penalties for being in contravention of the OSA.

    It’s also notable that they’re making no effort whatsoever to defend the act itself or engage with any of the criticism of it - it’s all ad hominem attacks on the critics.

    I doubt anyone who would consider voting Reform thinks of them as softer on nonces etc than Labour. It reeks of desperation.

  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    But do we, as a nation, give a flying one? Are we prepared to pay for more police, courts, custody and probation? All the evidence is that we're not. Not really. So we get the police focussing on the huge crimes of violence, which have to be the priority and where they're not doing badly. And the things that are cheap and easy to do- motoring offences and social media don't exactly need Inspector Morse to solve.

    And discussion of the state of the nation has to start with the observation that a lot of it is the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    We’re always paying more yet nothing improves. Every year in Durham my Police precept goes up well above inflation every year yet little seems to improve and yet the solution is just more money.

    Whenever they dare mentions cuts it is always ‘front line personnel’ they talk about cutting.
    Isn't the police precept mostly to fund police pensions ?
    But it puts a financial link between the council tax payer and the local police force. So you’re paying for the service. I doubt anyone thinks, or knows, it to pay for some retired plod to sit at home and watch daytime TV
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724

    Taz said:

    Been busy elsewhere today.

    Have we talked about the Reform UK football shirts? Have we questioned whether they fall foul of the Public Order Act 1936 Section 1?

    To the former yes, to the latter no. But feel free to crack on.
    I think the Reform football shirts are an inspired piece of political craft - they are going to be everywhere.

    Two problems
    1) The racist loons will also be wearing them whilst doing racist look stuff. Farage will have to deny a lot of thugs are his supporters despite them wearing the uniform
    2) Is a football shirt worn in the context of supporting a political movement a "uniform"? Because political uniforms remain illegal in England, Wales and Scotland thanks to the Public Order Act of 1936 Section 1

    It would take a lunatic activist barrister to try and prosecute this. But we have several to choose from...
    Scotland also? We already have a blue football shirt for the fashy Brit tendency, I think the they’ll see the turquoise as a bit..er..camp.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    isam said:

    Phil said:

    I can only presume Labour has internal polling or focus group responses that tell them that these attack lines on Reform are going to work, because they seem like transparent bullshit to me, but I’m obviously not the target voter they have in mind:

    “Rayner says Farage ‘failing young women’ with plan to scrap Online Safety Act”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/17/rayner-says-farage-failing-young-women-plan-scrap-online-safety-act

    Either that, or they’re getting a bit panicky about the whole thing. I note in passing that 4Chan have stuck two fingers up to OFCOM after being threatened with a £20k fine plus daily penalties for being in contravention of the OSA.

    It’s also notable that they’re making no effort whatsoever to defend the act itself or engage with any of the criticism of it - it’s all ad hominem attacks on the critics.

    I doubt anyone who would consider voting Reform thinks of them as softer on nonces etc than Labour. It reeks of desperation.

    This,is the same Labour who didn’t want an enquiry on the subject we don’t discuss for fear of upsetting their client vote 🤔
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    If this is true ‘Your Party’ seems riven by division and is not even started.

    ‘I am informed that there has been a coup of sorts in the working group responsible for the #YourParty Founding Conference, with decision-making power now centred around an even smaller group of people and the working group is now even less representative than before.’


    https://x.com/maxshanly/status/1957069077517599178?s=61
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,999
    Taz said:

    If this is true ‘Your Party’ seems riven by division and is not even started.

    ‘I am informed that there has been a coup of sorts in the working group responsible for the #YourParty Founding Conference, with decision-making power now centred around an even smaller group of people and the working group is now even less representative than before.’


    https://x.com/maxshanly/status/1957069077517599178?s=61

    Isn't that what you would expect for a Left party?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,563
    Taz said:

    If this is true ‘Your Party’ seems riven by division and is not even started.

    ‘I am informed that there has been a coup of sorts in the working group responsible for the #YourParty Founding Conference, with decision-making power now centred around an even smaller group of people and the working group is now even less representative than before.’


    https://x.com/maxshanly/status/1957069077517599178?s=61

    Coups, plots, schisms, denounciations. The film will be called "The Death of Corbyn". Ianucci is sharpening his pencil as we speak
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,445
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    But do we, as a nation, give a flying one? Are we prepared to pay for more police, courts, custody and probation? All the evidence is that we're not. Not really. So we get the police focussing on the huge crimes of violence, which have to be the priority and where they're not doing badly. And the things that are cheap and easy to do- motoring offences and social media don't exactly need Inspector Morse to solve.

    And discussion of the state of the nation has to start with the observation that a lot of it is the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    We’re always paying more yet nothing improves. Every year in Durham my Police precept goes up well above inflation every year yet little seems to improve and yet the solution is just more money.

    Whenever they dare mentions cuts it is always ‘front line personnel’ they talk about cutting.
    Isn't the police precept mostly to fund police pensions ?
    But it puts a financial link between the council tax payer and the local police force. So you’re paying for the service. I doubt anyone thinks, or knows, it to pay for some retired plod to sit at home and watch daytime TV
    Except that, for decades, past us promised coppers, teachers, nurses, bureaucrats et cetera pretty nice pensions, mostly without worrying too much about how future us were going to pay them. And got all those people to work for less than they would have cost otherwise. Unfortunately, now those bills have come due.

    Like I said, a lot of our current problems are the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    If this is true ‘Your Party’ seems riven by division and is not even started.

    ‘I am informed that there has been a coup of sorts in the working group responsible for the #YourParty Founding Conference, with decision-making power now centred around an even smaller group of people and the working group is now even less representative than before.’


    https://x.com/maxshanly/status/1957069077517599178?s=61

    Coups, plots, schisms, denounciations. The film will be called "The Death of Corbyn". Ianucci is sharpening his pencil as we speak
    It’s so unexpected !!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,843

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    It's quite amusing. There's no need to pooh-pooh anything; this one is self-collapsing afaics.

    The "locking down milk" photo is fake. It's from 2022 when one of the blues (Boris?) was in power, was from Tesco who said back then that the security tags were put on by mistake. AFAICS he's pretending it's current ("now"), or perhaps he believes his stuff.

    The chap seems in practice to be as gormless as Fizzy Lizzy, like most of them.

    I've had a look this afternoon at Farage's right hand Tiktok man that the Guardian had a little go at this morning, and he's the same.
    Is he actually his ‘right hand man’ all seems very exaggerated for effect.
    Mostly by the Right Hand Man, I suspect. It's the nature of politically-ambitious 23 year olds to portray themselves as much more important than they actually are. Heck, politically-ambitious types of any age do it. So do 23 year olds, whatever their ambition.

    Farage is not responsible for his followers. However, if an unusually large proportion of his close followers turn out to be fruitcakes, loons, closet racists or all three, it out to make one wonder why.
    As I’ve said about Farage before it’s amazing how many people he’s close to he eventually seems to alienate. To which TSE made the prescient comment along the lines of you meet an arsehole during the day they’re an arsehole. If all you meet in a day is arseholes then the problem is not the,.
    The quote is actually from a character called Raylan Givens, in the US Cop show Justified. Raylan shoots lots of people, but is always Justified.

    “If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.”
    I have a mate who's got embroiled in at least one bitter dispute with every neighbour he's had (dozens) in the last 30 years.

    He's always in the right.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,867
    carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    I wrote on the previous thread how much I was enjoying the audiobook of Nicola Sturgeon titled 'Frankly'. Turbotubbs replied

    "I'm amazed she recalls enough to write an essay, let alone a book. A mendacious, devious liar who tried to frame Alec Salmond, played politics over COVID and is married to a man charged with embezzling money from the party she led. Someone who believes men in a dress ought to be in a woman's prison because of them saying they are a woman"

    All I can say knowing less about her than you obviously do is that I've always been a fan and this book hasn't changed that. I've long admired her values and her loathing of racism and prejudice which is evident throughout the book and was in all her appearances. Scottish politics is clearly a bear pit and how she managed to navigate it has to be admired and respected. I have to say despite her tough gal exterior I find it quite moving and for anyone wanting to know more about Scottish politics I can't think of a better place to start

    As someone pointed out elsewhere, all six recommendations on the back cover are from people who don't live in Scotland. Apparently she's easy to like from a distance.

    Here's a counterpoint from The Times:

    https://archive.is/tYcCk
    Interesting review. "She loathed Boris and she despised Brexit'. She was also the best advocate against both. There's a lot else of interest and some fascinating behind the scenes stuff but when a great political advocate puts your point of view as powerfully as she used to do of course people like me are going to like her
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,843
    isam said:

    Phil said:

    I can only presume Labour has internal polling or focus group responses that tell them that these attack lines on Reform are going to work, because they seem like transparent bullshit to me, but I’m obviously not the target voter they have in mind:

    “Rayner says Farage ‘failing young women’ with plan to scrap Online Safety Act”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/17/rayner-says-farage-failing-young-women-plan-scrap-online-safety-act

    Either that, or they’re getting a bit panicky about the whole thing. I note in passing that 4Chan have stuck two fingers up to OFCOM after being threatened with a £20k fine plus daily penalties for being in contravention of the OSA.

    It’s also notable that they’re making no effort whatsoever to defend the act itself or engage with any of the criticism of it - it’s all ad hominem attacks on the critics.

    I doubt anyone who would consider voting Reform thinks of them as softer on nonces etc than Labour. It reeks of desperation.
    We are yet to discover what impact a Reform government would have on the life of the average nonce. Case of wait for the manifesto, I think.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,121

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    But do we, as a nation, give a flying one? Are we prepared to pay for more police, courts, custody and probation? All the evidence is that we're not. Not really. So we get the police focussing on the huge crimes of violence, which have to be the priority and where they're not doing badly. And the things that are cheap and easy to do- motoring offences and social media don't exactly need Inspector Morse to solve.

    And discussion of the state of the nation has to start with the observation that a lot of it is the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    We’re always paying more yet nothing improves. Every year in Durham my Police precept goes up well above inflation every year yet little seems to improve and yet the solution is just more money.

    Whenever they dare mentions cuts it is always ‘front line personnel’ they talk about cutting.
    Isn't the police precept mostly to fund police pensions ?
    As far as London and the Met is concerned:

    https://londondaily.com/metropolitan-police-facing-260-million-budget-shortfall-despite-funding-increases

    The key part of this:

    The sizeable budget gap is attributed to rising operational costs, underfunded pay increases, the financial burden of maintaining facilities, and escalating demand for police services.

    I don't see the word "pensions" - perhaps "rising operational costs" is a euphemism.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,369

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    But do we, as a nation, give a flying one? Are we prepared to pay for more police, courts, custody and probation? All the evidence is that we're not. Not really. So we get the police focussing on the huge crimes of violence, which have to be the priority and where they're not doing badly. And the things that are cheap and easy to do- motoring offences and social media don't exactly need Inspector Morse to solve.

    And discussion of the state of the nation has to start with the observation that a lot of it is the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    We’re always paying more yet nothing improves. Every year in Durham my Police precept goes up well above inflation every year yet little seems to improve and yet the solution is just more money.

    Whenever they dare mentions cuts it is always ‘front line personnel’ they talk about cutting.
    Isn't the police precept mostly to fund police pensions ?
    But it puts a financial link between the council tax payer and the local police force. So you’re paying for the service. I doubt anyone thinks, or knows, it to pay for some retired plod to sit at home and watch daytime TV
    Except that, for decades, past us promised coppers, teachers, nurses, bureaucrats et cetera pretty nice pensions, mostly without worrying too much about how future us were going to pay them. And got all those people to work for less than they would have cost otherwise. Unfortunately, now those bills have come due.

    Like I said, a lot of our current problems are the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    I don’t doubt that’s right but no one seems to want to bite the bullet and the solution just seems to be throwing ever more money from the productive economy at it.

    Those pensions should have been reformed further as they are becoming unaffordable.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,350
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    51 years ago to this very date I went to my first soccer game. 2-0 down in fifteen minutes, at home. Lost 3-0

    It’s easy supporting a successful club. Supporting a perennial loser is a trial and test of character.

    I used to go with a neighbour to St Andrews when Birmingham City were in the second division. I wasn't allowed to go when they played Leeds and Cardiff because of the hooliganism. I never really liked Birmingham except for the exceptional apprentice, Trevor Francis.

    My first Baggies and First Division game was in the first weekend of March 1971 and I went on the bus with my mum to the Hawthorns. George Best scored early on for United and the Baggies won 4-3. I was behind the goal at the Halfords Lane end so I didn't see much. It's been downhill ever since.
    Your may probably know the theee main characters in the initial series of New Tricks had names bases on West Brom as the writer, Julian Simpson IIRC, was a Baggies fan.

    Leeds and Cardiff rightly have terrible reputations for their fans.
    Woof woof bang bang.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,321

    Taz said:

    Been busy elsewhere today.

    Have we talked about the Reform UK football shirts? Have we questioned whether they fall foul of the Public Order Act 1936 Section 1?

    To the former yes, to the latter no. But feel free to crack on.
    I think the Reform football shirts are an inspired piece of political craft - they are going to be everywhere.

    Two problems
    1) The racist loons will also be wearing them whilst doing racist look stuff. Farage will have to deny a lot of thugs are his supporters despite them wearing the uniform
    2) Is a football shirt worn in the context of supporting a political movement a "uniform"? Because political uniforms remain illegal in England, Wales and Scotland thanks to the Public Order Act of 1936 Section 1

    It would take a lunatic activist barrister to try and prosecute this. But we have several to choose from...
    Scotland also? We already have a blue football shirt for the fashy Brit tendency, I think the they’ll see the turquoise as a bit..er..camp.
    Farage said Reform were "Top of the Leaderboard" in the advert.. bit of a tell that he isn't a massive football fan, although he professes to support Crystal Palace
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,594
    Battlebus said:

    Surge in Chinese acquisitions of UK private schools
    Government officials are said to be concerned over the potential influence of the Communist Party after Chinese investors acquire more than 30 institutions

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/surge-in-chinese-acquisitions-of-uk-private-schools-bpmw7r9d5 (£££)

    Could be worse. Could be Private Equity like water, dentists, vets, holidays etc....
    I had a friend who was an investor in a Chinese education company. Was going great. Until the government banned private ownership of schools overnight
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,210

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    Marco Rubio: "Life in America on a daily basis will be largely unaffected whether there's peace in Ukraine or not. That's just a fact. We have a lot of issues we're focused on not just at home, but around the world."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lwm5dmjobz2a

    An interesting take from the SoS in charge of foreign affairs.
    How is he wrong ?
    He's not massively wrong.
    If he's trying to communicate the message that the US has zero interest in Europe, then it would be far better to say that directly.
    Zero interest apart from giving deranged sermons on how Europe, the cradle of civilisation, is descending into totalitarian hell. Perhaps little Marco is so MAGAfied that he believes if he said it directly Europe would stop giving those sermons serious consideration.
    Despite deranged sermons I do not know how it could be clearer that current USA policy is that they wish to progress to Europe being for the Europeans to sort, and that Europe is two power blocs, west and east, and exactly where the dividing line is constitutes a little local difficulty about which the USA does not have strong opinions and is not worth the life of a single USA soldier; any more than European NATO seems to think it is worth the life of a single NATO one.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,999
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    But do we, as a nation, give a flying one? Are we prepared to pay for more police, courts, custody and probation? All the evidence is that we're not. Not really. So we get the police focussing on the huge crimes of violence, which have to be the priority and where they're not doing badly. And the things that are cheap and easy to do- motoring offences and social media don't exactly need Inspector Morse to solve.

    And discussion of the state of the nation has to start with the observation that a lot of it is the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    We’re always paying more yet nothing improves. Every year in Durham my Police precept goes up well above inflation every year yet little seems to improve and yet the solution is just more money.

    Whenever they dare mentions cuts it is always ‘front line personnel’ they talk about cutting.
    Isn't the police precept mostly to fund police pensions ?
    But it puts a financial link between the council tax payer and the local police force. So you’re paying for the service. I doubt anyone thinks, or knows, it to pay for some retired plod to sit at home and watch daytime TV
    Except that, for decades, past us promised coppers, teachers, nurses, bureaucrats et cetera pretty nice pensions, mostly without worrying too much about how future us were going to pay them. And got all those people to work for less than they would have cost otherwise. Unfortunately, now those bills have come due.

    Like I said, a lot of our current problems are the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    I don’t doubt that’s right but no one seems to want to bite the bullet and the solution just seems to be throwing ever more money from the productive economy at it.

    Those pensions should have been reformed further as they are becoming unaffordable.
    The Civil Service pension is now a career average revalued scheme and pays out at 67. So has indeed been reformed. It also no longer has the big "compulsory early retirement" top-ups it used to have for redundancy, you now get a redundancy payment and can claim an unenhanced pension if you want (and are over 55)
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,795
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    Uncontrolled mass immigration has entirely undermined our high-trust society."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1957074571762213091

    The loss of our "high trust" society due to immigration. I've noticed this one taking off like a rocket in right wing populist discourse. High trust is code for something else of course.
    When supermarkets are putting security tags on milk and cheese, then we have a trust problem.

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1956765654314361211

    If supermarkets in certain areas have to choose between looking like Haddows in Glasgow or moving to online deliveries only, then we all lose out.
    Shoplifting and phone snatching is up. Most crimes and crime in general inc violent crime is down.

    Somehow this is meant to support assertions that mass immigration has undermined our high-trust society.

    It's dog-whistling.
    Don’t worry. The PB centrist Dad brigade is out in force to Pooh-pooh it while burnishing their ‘right on’ credentials. Most people just don’t give such stuff the time of day. 👍
    The dogs ignore the whistle, you mean? I'd like to believe so but the whistlers must think otherwise.
    Right on, grandad 👍

    Perhaps they’re just savvy enough to see it for what it is and not indulge it.
    Well I'm not yet. But it could happen.

    Ok so you're telling me that politicians like Lowe are wasting their time putting out all this anti-immigrant shit.

    That's good. I can relax.
    I suspect political obsessives see patterns that they want to see rather than are actually there.

    How many people do you reckon know who Rupert Lowe is, let alone hear his pronouncements.
    Vs how many people see increased security measures in supermarkets and fare evasion on public transport.
    There is a difference between believing low level crime such as the above has increased. (But Fraser Nelson told us we’ve never had it so good !) and people buying into the low trust society all being down to migrants.

    Clearly the authorities don’t care greatly about some low level crimes.

    If they don’t give a fuck that’s the problem.

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1957094911087419650?s=61
    But do we, as a nation, give a flying one? Are we prepared to pay for more police, courts, custody and probation? All the evidence is that we're not. Not really. So we get the police focussing on the huge crimes of violence, which have to be the priority and where they're not doing badly. And the things that are cheap and easy to do- motoring offences and social media don't exactly need Inspector Morse to solve.

    And discussion of the state of the nation has to start with the observation that a lot of it is the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    We’re always paying more yet nothing improves. Every year in Durham my Police precept goes up well above inflation every year yet little seems to improve and yet the solution is just more money.

    Whenever they dare mentions cuts it is always ‘front line personnel’ they talk about cutting.
    Isn't the police precept mostly to fund police pensions ?
    But it puts a financial link between the council tax payer and the local police force. So you’re paying for the service. I doubt anyone thinks, or knows, it to pay for some retired plod to sit at home and watch daytime TV
    Except that, for decades, past us promised coppers, teachers, nurses, bureaucrats et cetera pretty nice pensions, mostly without worrying too much about how future us were going to pay them. And got all those people to work for less than they would have cost otherwise. Unfortunately, now those bills have come due.

    Like I said, a lot of our current problems are the consequence of the sum of all the decisions we have collectively taken over decades.
    I don’t doubt that’s right but no one seems to want to bite the bullet and the solution just seems to be throwing ever more money from the productive economy at it.

    Those pensions should have been reformed further as they are becoming unaffordable.
    You can’t really reform them easily because there’s so much variation in individual contracts. Not impossible of course, but an enormous pain & means explicitly breaking existing contracts which liberal governments generally regard as a very bad idea.

    What is perfectly doable is cutting National Insurance rates whilst simultaneously increasing income tax rates, which will shift some tax burden from the young to the old & reduce the net cost of pensions paid out of government tax income.

    No pension contract binds the government to specific future tax rates on that pension income.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,715
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    If this is true ‘Your Party’ seems riven by division and is not even started.

    ‘I am informed that there has been a coup of sorts in the working group responsible for the #YourParty Founding Conference, with decision-making power now centred around an even smaller group of people and the working group is now even less representative than before.’


    https://x.com/maxshanly/status/1957069077517599178?s=61

    Coups, plots, schisms, denounciations. The film will be called "The Death of Corbyn". Ianucci is sharpening his pencil as we speak
    And its all coming as such a surprise to Jonty and Jocasta
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