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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,641

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Keir has spoken.

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1956692156099244329

    To give him credit where it’s due, this is one issue on which he can’t really be faulted. Thankfully UK support for Ukraine is almost universal and across party lines.

    Thankfully Boris Johnson beat Jeremy Corbyn in 2019, I suspect the old commie’s attitude to this conflict would have been quite different.

    Except the party leading the polls.
    And this is the curious thing.

    Its perfectly possible to have a pro-western, strong defence patriotic, reform as an alt-right party.

    In fact it would likely have greater potential support than the anti-western putinism that Farage dabbles in.

    The putinism of the Christian ethno-nationalists is even more baffling as it is Putin's strategy to encourage more migration to the western world.
    It's because they see Russia as a bastion of traditional values. It's white, Christian, antiwoke. In their mental word-cloud "muscular" and "unpolluted" would be prominent.
    You said Sir Keir was “muscular” as well! Are these tough guys smothered in baby oil when you think of them?
    Hang on, Boris surely. And it was that Philip Tompkins not me.
    @kinabalu May 18

    "No messing about there. Polls will confirm (or not) but a word that probably leaps to many people's minds when thinking about Keir Starmer is "muscular". He'd take that, I reckon, if it turns out to be the case."

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5210589/#Comment_5210589
    "Muscular" in the sense of a mussel - having the personality of a bivalve mollusck.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,366

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: Putin demands Ukraine surrender Donetsk in exchange for peace


    Telegraph


    If that is correct, and Putin is "sincere", then the Ukes should take that. It's a dismal outcome, but continuing this horrific war is even worse

    I'd be slightly surprised in this is a genuine offer. Putin will have sacrificed 100,000s of his young men for a fairly impoverished coalmining bit of East Ukraine. Will his nationalist supporters buy that?

    So Russia cannot gain it so it wants to be given it.

    Continuing the war is far, far better as it steadily ruins the Russian economy, destroys the Russian military and kills hundred of thousands more Russians.

    The underlying fact that Europeans leaders need to remember is:

    THE MORE DEAD RUSSIANS THE BETTER.
    Er, it also means thousands of dead Ukrainians. Maybe tens of thousands

    End the war. Do a Korea
    By 'do a Korea' do you mean that £50k US troops will be stationed in Ukraine with nuclear weapons ?

    Nor did South Korea give up any land.

    You really do have a substandard IQ.

    Nor do you give a toss about the Ukrainians, if you did you would support them.

    Instead you just want to give Russia whatever it wants because you're bored and lack commitment.
    Sweet Jesus, are we back to "stop it, you're lowering PB morale"?

    I've been to Ukraine, during this war. Twice. You have not.

    I've been to Lviv, Chernivtsi, Kyiv, Odesa, all over. I've been in trains and buses and taxis - and bomb shelters. I've been on an Odesan boulevard as a chunk of drone hit the road creating the loudest, most terrifying noise I've ever heard. I've watched from a hotel balcony as Putin tried to bomb my very hotel, at night. The next night a missile took out a building about 300 yards away, as I slept

    I've met dozens of Ukrainians of all ages, I've seen the flags of the dead in Maidan square, I've seen all the young men in crutches, missing limbs, in wheelchairs. I've had drinks with Ukrainians and listened to them casually say "oh yes, my three best friends from college are already dead, I'm going back to the front tomorrow, I'm not expecting to survive"

    And so on, and so forth

    I don't want any more of them to die. I like Ukrainians. I also like Russians (even as I despise their regime). I don't want them to die, either. I like humans in general, and I have a special fondness for young humans, who are the future, I don't want them to die

    If the war can be stopped in a way that ends the killing while securing most of Ukraine (ex Donetsk) they should try and do that deal. We will then need to shore up Ukraine's defences, indeed all our defences, so Putin can never try this again because he would meet with certain defeat

    So, with all due respect, go jump in a toxic lake
    Well said.

    Except I would have said 'Go and jump in a toxic lake.'
    How about this one

    You need a license to visit it.

    https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/blue-lagoon-hexham-tourists-police-18759552
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,208
    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,433
    The only way the Ukraine war ends is with Ukraine demonstrating that “civil plutonium” can be used to build a nuke.

    Probably a 2 stage fission device. The primary would yield 0.5Kt - but that would be enough to compress a pure fission *secondary* to insane densities. As a final trick - a neuron *absorber* in the core of the secondary . Which would hold off fission until neutrons from the primary reach the secondary. At which point it would be denser than the heart of the sun.

    A 100kt yield from such a system wouldn’t be impossible.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    Btw I just want to point out that I have so successfully turned my flat into a Byronic lair; and my bedroom into a decadent but masculine cocoon, that my bedside table now looks like THIS



    I literally sleep in a whisky advert
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,715
    Nigelb said:

    Again, the US commitment to any deal, after it is done, is worth precisely nothing.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c2kzn1nw1d4t
    A former US Nato representative says it's "just not credible" that Ukraine could be offered the protection of Nato members after a peace deal is agreed without actually joining the organisation formally.
    As our Ukraine correspondent wrote earlier, there have been reports that security guarantees for Ukraine were discussed in Alaska which could see Ukraine’s allies, including the US, promising to intervene if Russia decided to attack it again.
    But, speaking a bit earlier to the BBC News channel, former US Nato representative Ivo Daalder challenged the feasibility of the security plan.
    "I don't believe that President Trump is willing to go to war against Russia to protect Ukraine," he says, observing that none of the Nato members were willing to do so either when Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022.
    "No one in Europe today trusts Donald Trump's US to defend them if they were attacked, and no-one in Ukraine is going to believe that unless and until they are the member of the one organisation that exists explicitly for that purpose," he explains...


    Why are we allowing Trump to decide our future ?

    Because he is blackmailing us over NATO.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,345

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: Putin demands Ukraine surrender Donetsk in exchange for peace


    Telegraph


    If that is correct, and Putin is "sincere", then the Ukes should take that. It's a dismal outcome, but continuing this horrific war is even worse

    I'd be slightly surprised in this is a genuine offer. Putin will have sacrificed 100,000s of his young men for a fairly impoverished coalmining bit of East Ukraine. Will his nationalist supporters buy that?

    So Russia cannot gain it so it wants to be given it.

    Continuing the war is far, far better as it steadily ruins the Russian economy, destroys the Russian military and kills hundred of thousands more Russians.

    The underlying fact that Europeans leaders need to remember is:

    THE MORE DEAD RUSSIANS THE BETTER.
    Er, it also means thousands of dead Ukrainians. Maybe tens of thousands

    End the war. Do a Korea
    By 'do a Korea' do you mean that £50k US troops will be stationed in Ukraine with nuclear weapons ?

    Nor did South Korea give up any land.

    You really do have a substandard IQ.

    Nor do you give a toss about the Ukrainians, if you did you would support them.

    Instead you just want to give Russia whatever it wants because you're bored and lack commitment.
    Sweet Jesus, are we back to "stop it, you're lowering PB morale"?

    I've been to Ukraine, during this war. Twice. You have not.

    I've been to Lviv, Chernivtsi, Kyiv, Odesa, all over. I've been in trains and buses and taxis - and bomb shelters. I've been on an Odesan boulevard as a chunk of drone hit the road creating the loudest, most terrifying noise I've ever heard. I've watched from a hotel balcony as Putin tried to bomb my very hotel, at night. The next night a missile took out a building about 300 yards away, as I slept

    I've met dozens of Ukrainians of all ages, I've seen the flags of the dead in Maidan square, I've seen all the young men in crutches, missing limbs, in wheelchairs. I've had drinks with Ukrainians and listened to them casually say "oh yes, my three best friends from college are already dead, I'm going back to the front tomorrow, I'm not expecting to survive"

    And so on, and so forth

    I don't want any more of them to die. I like Ukrainians. I also like Russians (even as I despise their regime). I don't want them to die, either. I like humans in general, and I have a special fondness for young humans, who are the future, I don't want them to die

    If the war can be stopped in a way that ends the killing while securing most of Ukraine (ex Donetsk) they should try and do that deal. We will then need to shore up Ukraine's defences, indeed all our defences, so Putin can never try this again because he would meet with certain defeat

    So, with all due respect, go jump in a toxic lake
    Well said.

    Except I would have said 'Go and jump in a toxic lake.'
    How much land should Russia give up for peace ?
    How much current IRA activity should the UK ignore for peace? How many past IRA murderers should the UK Government brush under the carpet for piece? Peace deals aren't satisfactory - by their nature they involve compromise with the enemy, often unjust compromise.
    So how much land should Russia give up for peace ?

    And it isn't peace if its just the next step for further war.
    Ukraine isn't holding any Russian land (as I understand it), so Russia doesn't have to give up any land.
    Russia should give up land as part of their reparations for the war. :)
    Russia has been appalling, despicable, and they 'should' have to do many things, but this is isn't about justice, it's about future people being alive, not dead.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,281
    .

    The only way the Ukraine war ends is with Ukraine demonstrating that “civil plutonium” can be used to build a nuke.

    Probably a 2 stage fission device. The primary would yield 0.5Kt - but that would be enough to compress a pure fission *secondary* to insane densities. As a final trick - a neuron *absorber* in the core of the secondary . Which would hold off fission until neutrons from the primary reach the secondary. At which point it would be denser than the heart of the sun.

    A 100kt yield from such a system wouldn’t be impossible.

    You should have a chat with them.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,409
    I think, and hope, Europe and UK are playing for time on Ukraine.

    We need to rearm conventionally, which has started. But it will take time. Until then, it is better to continue the Ukraine war and support them in all means possible until such a time that we can be the negotiating partners able to enforce a peace deal (or Russia's economy and war effort collapses).

    Putin's proposals clearly remain designed to look reasonable ("just give up this one area") but that would strategically leave Ukraine vulnerable to future attack. And any US positions that might make it acceptable (e.g. security guarantees) would be unacceptable to Putin.

    So both sides remain as far apart as they ever were. And a more limited ceasefire appears to be off the table.

    My expectation is Trump gets bored of Ukraine in 2-4 weeks and headlines are discussing tariffs against China or some other distraction by then.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,691

    The only way the Ukraine war ends is with Ukraine demonstrating that “civil plutonium” can be used to build a nuke.

    Probably a 2 stage fission device. The primary would yield 0.5Kt - but that would be enough to compress a pure fission *secondary* to insane densities. As a final trick - a neuron *absorber* in the core of the secondary . Which would hold off fission until neutrons from the primary reach the secondary. At which point it would be denser than the heart of the sun.

    A 100kt yield from such a system wouldn’t be impossible.

    It's hard to imagine where this demonstration might conveniently be organised. And worth recalling, fortuitously, that the USA felt obliged to nix Nagasaki in case the Japanese thought they only had one.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,281
    Just what was said in the Beast ?

    I'll never forget how a longtime friend of mine—a Trump-supporting member of the Republican National Committee!!—called me up after seeing @realDonaldTrump's beaten-dog-like demeanor and posture at Helsinki.

    My friend asked, "Do you think Putin really has something on Trump?"

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1956751251787415783
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,210
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see our low IQ pollsters are getting overexcited based on a subsamples as low as 122 of 18 to 24 year olds.

    Belief has also surged in older people, just not as much


    “Among 25-49-year-olds, belief has risen more modestly, from 21 per cent to 33 per cent over the same period

    Which is still an incredible rise

    That said, this poll repeats the dubious assertion about a massive rise in churchgoing - which has been plausibly questioned by many

    So 🤷🏼‍♂️
    This looks like it's the underlying survey;

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/brits-beliefs-about-gods?crossBreak=1824

    Six monthly tracker, and both the 16 and 45 are oddly cherry-picked. (The most recent survey is back to 37-32 belief.)

    Does look like something interesting happened between August 2022 and February 2023, but not on the scale suggested here. Maybe the rapid fall of Truss caused people to say "Thank God for that".
    Yes, that's a weird selection. But let's disentangle them (with the SUBSET CAVEAT in mind)

    In August 2019, a total of 39% of young people believed either in God/Gods or a "spiritual greater power". Whereas 42% declared total atheism - the atheists had a narrow but clear majority

    Now? In August 2025? A total of 55% of young people believe in God/Gods or a spiritual greater power, and just 32% are convinced atheists, the believers are now in the majority and by a big distance

    That is a profound change, and does suggest Something is Going On

    What’s going on, as usual, is your inability to understand basic maths.
    Fiction writers don't do maths, surely?
    Only in the racier bits of the finance industry.
    Well I’ve just made several hundred quid writing about this little poll, this afternoon, for Tickler’s Weekly (Australian edition) so maybe my maths is not entirely shot

    That is to say, on seeing the poll I saw the underlying equation:

    Startling poll + my talent = money
    Several hundred pounds!
    Not so bad for a couple of hours on a lazy Saturday afternoon - which I would otherwise have spent faffing about on here, probably
    It's more than I earned today, I'll give you that.

    Bit of cheap and cheerful clickbait?
    Started out that way, but became something more serious and considered

    I'm proud of my final line
    Was it "ENOUGH"?
    BRACE!

    Actually it is interesting, the process

    I've noticed of late the LESS time I spend on a column, the better

    That is to say: if I am in the zone I can write one in 40 minutes (as I did today). Then I spend an hour or so browsing 1960s Murano glass, obviously racist news, and softcore VPN'd porn on the net, then I return to the column and polish it up in 10-20 minutes. And it's good to go

    So actually an hour's work. For what most people earn in a day if they are pretty lucky. And often PB has done most of the research and argumentation for me, by debating the point

    I recommend this line of work, it's fun

    However if a column takes me hours and hours, that's a sure sign it will be less good, perhaps even crap
    An implication, possibly a corollary, of Parkinson's law - work expands to fill the time available - is that work contracts to fill a limited time made available for it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,861
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see our low IQ pollsters are getting overexcited based on a subsamples as low as 122 of 18 to 24 year olds.

    Belief has also surged in older people, just not as much


    “Among 25-49-year-olds, belief has risen more modestly, from 21 per cent to 33 per cent over the same period

    Which is still an incredible rise

    That said, this poll repeats the dubious assertion about a massive rise in churchgoing - which has been plausibly questioned by many

    So 🤷🏼‍♂️
    This looks like it's the underlying survey;

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/brits-beliefs-about-gods?crossBreak=1824

    Six monthly tracker, and both the 16 and 45 are oddly cherry-picked. (The most recent survey is back to 37-32 belief.)

    Does look like something interesting happened between August 2022 and February 2023, but not on the scale suggested here. Maybe the rapid fall of Truss caused people to say "Thank God for that".
    Yes, that's a weird selection. But let's disentangle them (with the SUBSET CAVEAT in mind)

    In August 2019, a total of 39% of young people believed either in God/Gods or a "spiritual greater power". Whereas 42% declared total atheism - the atheists had a narrow but clear majority

    Now? In August 2025? A total of 55% of young people believe in God/Gods or a spiritual greater power, and just 32% are convinced atheists, the believers are now in the majority and by a big distance

    That is a profound change, and does suggest Something is Going On

    What’s going on, as usual, is your inability to understand basic maths.
    Fiction writers don't do maths, surely?
    Only in the racier bits of the finance industry.
    Well I’ve just made several hundred quid writing about this little poll, this afternoon, for Tickler’s Weekly (Australian edition) so maybe my maths is not entirely shot

    That is to say, on seeing the poll I saw the underlying equation:

    Startling poll + my talent = money
    Several hundred pounds!
    Not so bad for a couple of hours on a lazy Saturday afternoon - which I would otherwise have spent faffing about on here, probably
    It's more than I earned today, I'll give you that.

    Bit of cheap and cheerful clickbait?
    Started out that way, but became something more serious and considered

    I'm proud of my final line
    ‘Beware - it’s all based on a sub sample’?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,281
    edited August 16
    Cicero said:

    Nigelb said:

    Again, the US commitment to any deal, after it is done, is worth precisely nothing.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c2kzn1nw1d4t
    A former US Nato representative says it's "just not credible" that Ukraine could be offered the protection of Nato members after a peace deal is agreed without actually joining the organisation formally.
    As our Ukraine correspondent wrote earlier, there have been reports that security guarantees for Ukraine were discussed in Alaska which could see Ukraine’s allies, including the US, promising to intervene if Russia decided to attack it again.
    But, speaking a bit earlier to the BBC News channel, former US Nato representative Ivo Daalder challenged the feasibility of the security plan.
    "I don't believe that President Trump is willing to go to war against Russia to protect Ukraine," he says, observing that none of the Nato members were willing to do so either when Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022.
    "No one in Europe today trusts Donald Trump's US to defend them if they were attacked, and no-one in Ukraine is going to believe that unless and until they are the member of the one organisation that exists explicitly for that purpose," he explains...


    Why are we allowing Trump to decide our future ?

    Because he is blackmailing us over NATO.
    I get that.
    But if that's the case, why allow it ?

    So unreliable an ally isn't worth the effort of compromising your own security to keep onside.

    And we'd anyway quite probably have a better chance of doing so if we pushed back. Trump tends to back down in the face of resistance.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,300
    FYI for our factually challenged posters who frottaged themselves into a frenzy yesterday.

    For those determined to see "2 tier justice" because Ricky Jones was granted bail & Lucy Connolly was not, the facts are these:

    Jones was arrested on 8th & charged on 9th August. He was refused bail and remanded in custody to 6th Sept.

    On 6th Sept he appeared in the Crown Court via video link from prison. He pleaded not guilty. It seems that he was again remanded in custody.

    The Metropolitan Police confirmed on 14th October 2024 that he had been granted bail, presumably sometime shortly before that.

    By way of comparison, Lucy Connolly was remanded in custody on 10th August. Her guilty plea was entered on Sep 2nd and her sentencing adjourned, with her in custody, to Oct 17th

    Before his not guilty plea was entered, and for some time afterwards, Jones was remanded in custody.

    The idea seems to have got around that he had bail from the moment of his first appearance in court. He did not.


    https://x.com/Barristerblog/status/1956786350054617537
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,575

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: Putin demands Ukraine surrender Donetsk in exchange for peace


    Telegraph


    If that is correct, and Putin is "sincere", then the Ukes should take that. It's a dismal outcome, but continuing this horrific war is even worse

    I'd be slightly surprised in this is a genuine offer. Putin will have sacrificed 100,000s of his young men for a fairly impoverished coalmining bit of East Ukraine. Will his nationalist supporters buy that?

    So Russia cannot gain it so it wants to be given it.

    Continuing the war is far, far better as it steadily ruins the Russian economy, destroys the Russian military and kills hundred of thousands more Russians.

    The underlying fact that Europeans leaders need to remember is:

    THE MORE DEAD RUSSIANS THE BETTER.
    Er, it also means thousands of dead Ukrainians. Maybe tens of thousands

    End the war. Do a Korea
    By 'do a Korea' do you mean that £50k US troops will be stationed in Ukraine with nuclear weapons ?

    Nor did South Korea give up any land.

    You really do have a substandard IQ.

    Nor do you give a toss about the Ukrainians, if you did you would support them.

    Instead you just want to give Russia whatever it wants because you're bored and lack commitment.
    Sweet Jesus, are we back to "stop it, you're lowering PB morale"?

    I've been to Ukraine, during this war. Twice. You have not.

    I've been to Lviv, Chernivtsi, Kyiv, Odesa, all over. I've been in trains and buses and taxis - and bomb shelters. I've been on an Odesan boulevard as a chunk of drone hit the road creating the loudest, most terrifying noise I've ever heard. I've watched from a hotel balcony as Putin tried to bomb my very hotel, at night. The next night a missile took out a building about 300 yards away, as I slept

    I've met dozens of Ukrainians of all ages, I've seen the flags of the dead in Maidan square, I've seen all the young men in crutches, missing limbs, in wheelchairs. I've had drinks with Ukrainians and listened to them casually say "oh yes, my three best friends from college are already dead, I'm going back to the front tomorrow, I'm not expecting to survive"

    And so on, and so forth

    I don't want any more of them to die. I like Ukrainians. I also like Russians (even as I despise their regime). I don't want them to die, either. I like humans in general, and I have a special fondness for young humans, who are the future, I don't want them to die

    If the war can be stopped in a way that ends the killing while securing most of Ukraine (ex Donetsk) they should try and do that deal. We will then need to shore up Ukraine's defences, indeed all our defences, so Putin can never try this again because he would meet with certain defeat

    So, with all due respect, go jump in a toxic lake
    Well said.

    Except I would have said 'Go and jump in a toxic lake.'
    How much land should Russia give up for peace ?
    How much current IRA activity should the UK ignore for peace? How many past IRA murderers should the UK Government brush under the carpet for piece? Peace deals aren't satisfactory - by their nature they involve compromise with the enemy, often unjust compromise.
    So how much land should Russia give up for peace ?

    And it isn't peace if its just the next step for further war.
    Ukraine isn't holding any Russian land (as I understand it), so Russia doesn't have to give up any land.
    Russia should give up land as part of their reparations for the war. :)
    Russia has been appalling, despicable, and they 'should' have to do many things, but this is isn't about justice, it's about future people being alive, not dead.
    Russia can end the war immediately by withdrawing to the 1991 border.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,793
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see our low IQ pollsters are getting overexcited based on a subsamples as low as 122 of 18 to 24 year olds.

    Belief has also surged in older people, just not as much


    “Among 25-49-year-olds, belief has risen more modestly, from 21 per cent to 33 per cent over the same period

    Which is still an incredible rise

    That said, this poll repeats the dubious assertion about a massive rise in churchgoing - which has been plausibly questioned by many

    So 🤷🏼‍♂️
    This looks like it's the underlying survey;

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/brits-beliefs-about-gods?crossBreak=1824

    Six monthly tracker, and both the 16 and 45 are oddly cherry-picked. (The most recent survey is back to 37-32 belief.)

    Does look like something interesting happened between August 2022 and February 2023, but not on the scale suggested here. Maybe the rapid fall of Truss caused people to say "Thank God for that".
    Yes, that's a weird selection. But let's disentangle them (with the SUBSET CAVEAT in mind)

    In August 2019, a total of 39% of young people believed either in God/Gods or a "spiritual greater power". Whereas 42% declared total atheism - the atheists had a narrow but clear majority

    Now? In August 2025? A total of 55% of young people believe in God/Gods or a spiritual greater power, and just 32% are convinced atheists, the believers are now in the majority and by a big distance

    That is a profound change, and does suggest Something is Going On

    What’s going on, as usual, is your inability to understand basic maths.
    Fiction writers don't do maths, surely?
    Only in the racier bits of the finance industry.
    Well I’ve just made several hundred quid writing about this little poll, this afternoon, for Tickler’s Weekly (Australian edition) so maybe my maths is not entirely shot

    That is to say, on seeing the poll I saw the underlying equation:

    Startling poll + my talent = money
    Several hundred pounds!
    Not so bad for a couple of hours on a lazy Saturday afternoon - which I would otherwise have spent faffing about on here, probably
    It's more than I earned today, I'll give you that.

    Bit of cheap and cheerful clickbait?
    Started out that way, but became something more serious and considered

    I'm proud of my final line
    Was it "ENOUGH"?
    BRACE!

    Actually it is interesting, the process

    I've noticed of late the LESS time I spend on a column, the better

    That is to say: if I am in the zone I can write one in 40 minutes (as I did today). Then I spend an hour or so browsing 1960s Murano glass, obviously racist news, and softcore VPN'd porn on the net, then I return to the column and polish it up in 10-20 minutes. And it's good to go

    So actually an hour's work. For what most people earn in a day if they are pretty lucky. And often PB has done most of the research and argumentation for me, by debating the point

    I recommend this line of work, it's fun

    However if a column takes me hours and hours, that's a sure sign it will be less good, perhaps even crap
    My line of work is sightly different to yours - but does invilve writing, and I can relate. My best work is done quickly.
  • kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Keir has spoken.

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1956692156099244329

    To give him credit where it’s due, this is one issue on which he can’t really be faulted. Thankfully UK support for Ukraine is almost universal and across party lines.

    Thankfully Boris Johnson beat Jeremy Corbyn in 2019, I suspect the old commie’s attitude to this conflict would have been quite different.

    Except the party leading the polls.
    And this is the curious thing.

    Its perfectly possible to have a pro-western, strong defence patriotic, reform as an alt-right party.

    In fact it would likely have greater potential support than the anti-western putinism that Farage dabbles in.

    The putinism of the Christian ethno-nationalists is even more baffling as it is Putin's strategy to encourage more migration to the western world.
    It's because they see Russia as a bastion of traditional values. It's white, Christian, antiwoke. In their mental word-cloud "muscular" and "unpolluted" would be prominent.
    You said Sir Keir was “muscular” as well! Are these tough guys smothered in baby oil when you think of them?
    Hang on, Boris surely. And it was that Philip Tompkins not me.
    @kinabalu May 18

    "No messing about there. Polls will confirm (or not) but a word that probably leaps to many people's minds when thinking about Keir Starmer is "muscular". He'd take that, I reckon, if it turns out to be the case."

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5210589/#Comment_5210589
    "Muscular" in the sense of a mussel - having the personality of a bivalve mollusck.
    Moulecular definitely works better..
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see our low IQ pollsters are getting overexcited based on a subsamples as low as 122 of 18 to 24 year olds.

    Belief has also surged in older people, just not as much


    “Among 25-49-year-olds, belief has risen more modestly, from 21 per cent to 33 per cent over the same period

    Which is still an incredible rise

    That said, this poll repeats the dubious assertion about a massive rise in churchgoing - which has been plausibly questioned by many

    So 🤷🏼‍♂️
    This looks like it's the underlying survey;

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/brits-beliefs-about-gods?crossBreak=1824

    Six monthly tracker, and both the 16 and 45 are oddly cherry-picked. (The most recent survey is back to 37-32 belief.)

    Does look like something interesting happened between August 2022 and February 2023, but not on the scale suggested here. Maybe the rapid fall of Truss caused people to say "Thank God for that".
    Yes, that's a weird selection. But let's disentangle them (with the SUBSET CAVEAT in mind)

    In August 2019, a total of 39% of young people believed either in God/Gods or a "spiritual greater power". Whereas 42% declared total atheism - the atheists had a narrow but clear majority

    Now? In August 2025? A total of 55% of young people believe in God/Gods or a spiritual greater power, and just 32% are convinced atheists, the believers are now in the majority and by a big distance

    That is a profound change, and does suggest Something is Going On

    What’s going on, as usual, is your inability to understand basic maths.
    Fiction writers don't do maths, surely?
    Only in the racier bits of the finance industry.
    Well I’ve just made several hundred quid writing about this little poll, this afternoon, for Tickler’s Weekly (Australian edition) so maybe my maths is not entirely shot

    That is to say, on seeing the poll I saw the underlying equation:

    Startling poll + my talent = money
    Several hundred pounds!
    Not so bad for a couple of hours on a lazy Saturday afternoon - which I would otherwise have spent faffing about on here, probably
    It's more than I earned today, I'll give you that.

    Bit of cheap and cheerful clickbait?
    Started out that way, but became something more serious and considered

    I'm proud of my final line
    Was it "ENOUGH"?
    BRACE!

    Actually it is interesting, the process

    I've noticed of late the LESS time I spend on a column, the better

    That is to say: if I am in the zone I can write one in 40 minutes (as I did today). Then I spend an hour or so browsing 1960s Murano glass, obviously racist news, and softcore VPN'd porn on the net, then I return to the column and polish it up in 10-20 minutes. And it's good to go

    So actually an hour's work. For what most people earn in a day if they are pretty lucky. And often PB has done most of the research and argumentation for me, by debating the point

    I recommend this line of work, it's fun

    However if a column takes me hours and hours, that's a sure sign it will be less good, perhaps even crap
    An implication, possibly a corollary, of Parkinson's law - work expands to fill the time available - is that work contracts to fill a limited time made available for it.
    No

    It means that if you have a good idea (and you're a good writer, in a good state of mind) then it will flow very easily - and quickly - and it will be excellent work

    Any of those three "not good", you struggle, and it might take you ages to make something respectable, or you might fail altogether

    It's also weirdly important to get the first line right - the same as the first knap of a flint. It sets the tone in multiple ways. If you accept a mediocre or awkward opening line, the whole thing often stutters from there on

    And the last line is crucial, like the ending of a novel or film. It's the last image. It MUST resonate

    And rhythm, omg rhythm. Amateurs - even quite a few pros - have no idea how important it is. The drum and the bass of language, doing their important work, out of sight but always there, and pivotal
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,208
    Nigelb said:

    Just what was said in the Beast ?

    I'll never forget how a longtime friend of mine—a Trump-supporting member of the Republican National Committee!!—called me up after seeing @realDonaldTrump's beaten-dog-like demeanor and posture at Helsinki.

    My friend asked, "Do you think Putin really has something on Trump?"

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1956751251787415783

    100% doesn't look like someone who's asked "Can I have that VHS of me and the 14yr-old Jeff arranged back?" and been told "Nyet!".
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,861
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see our low IQ pollsters are getting overexcited based on a subsamples as low as 122 of 18 to 24 year olds.

    Belief has also surged in older people, just not as much


    “Among 25-49-year-olds, belief has risen more modestly, from 21 per cent to 33 per cent over the same period

    Which is still an incredible rise

    That said, this poll repeats the dubious assertion about a massive rise in churchgoing - which has been plausibly questioned by many

    So 🤷🏼‍♂️
    This looks like it's the underlying survey;

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/brits-beliefs-about-gods?crossBreak=1824

    Six monthly tracker, and both the 16 and 45 are oddly cherry-picked. (The most recent survey is back to 37-32 belief.)

    Does look like something interesting happened between August 2022 and February 2023, but not on the scale suggested here. Maybe the rapid fall of Truss caused people to say "Thank God for that".
    Yes, that's a weird selection. But let's disentangle them (with the SUBSET CAVEAT in mind)

    In August 2019, a total of 39% of young people believed either in God/Gods or a "spiritual greater power". Whereas 42% declared total atheism - the atheists had a narrow but clear majority

    Now? In August 2025? A total of 55% of young people believe in God/Gods or a spiritual greater power, and just 32% are convinced atheists, the believers are now in the majority and by a big distance

    That is a profound change, and does suggest Something is Going On

    What’s going on, as usual, is your inability to understand basic maths.
    Fiction writers don't do maths, surely?
    Only in the racier bits of the finance industry.
    Well I’ve just made several hundred quid writing about this little poll, this afternoon, for Tickler’s Weekly (Australian edition) so maybe my maths is not entirely shot

    That is to say, on seeing the poll I saw the underlying equation:

    Startling poll + my talent = money
    Several hundred pounds!
    Not so bad for a couple of hours on a lazy Saturday afternoon - which I would otherwise have spent faffing about on here, probably
    It's more than I earned today, I'll give you that.

    Bit of cheap and cheerful clickbait?
    Started out that way, but became something more serious and considered

    I'm proud of my final line
    Was it "ENOUGH"?
    BRACE!

    Actually it is interesting, the process

    I've noticed of late the LESS time I spend on a column, the better

    That is to say: if I am in the zone I can write one in 40 minutes (as I did today). Then I spend an hour or so browsing 1960s Murano glass, obviously racist news, and softcore VPN'd porn on the net, then I return to the column and polish it up in 10-20 minutes. And it's good to go

    So actually an hour's work. For what most people earn in a day if they are pretty lucky. And often PB has done most of the research and argumentation for me, by debating the point

    I recommend this line of work, it's fun

    However if a column takes me hours and hours, that's a sure sign it will be less good, perhaps even crap
    I don’t write for magazines, newspapers, but I do write scientific journal papers and I recognise this. Generally I find the longer I take refining a paper the less happy I become with it. Not sure why. Might just be overfamiliarity with it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,200
    edited August 16
    Andy_JS said:

    If Reform are to falter by the next election, then it will be things like this, a bit like the anti Brit cranks which hamstrung Labour in the 1980s.

    Farage adviser said UK would be better off if it had not fought Nazi Germany

    Exclusive: Jack Anderton says UK may ‘regain’ former colonies in future and suggests end to support for Ukraine


    An adviser used by Nigel Farage and others in Reform UK to boost their social media popularity has suggested that Britain would be better off had it stayed neutral in the second world war instead of fighting Nazi Germany.

    Jack Anderton, who ran Farage’s hugely successful TikTok account before helping Luke Campbell become the Reform mayor of Hull and East Yorkshire, also said the UK should not support Ukraine in its fight against Russian aggression.

    In a post on his personal blog about Britain’s international standing, Anderton said that in a future world of “meritocracy”, the UK could “regain” former colonies such as Australia, Canada and South Africa.

    He added that the UK should copy the policy of mass incarceration carried out by El Salvador’s president, Nayib Bukele, widely condemned as an abuse of human rights.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/16/nigel-farage-adviser-uk-would-be-better-off-if-it-had-not-fought-nazi-germany

    I don't think any of these anti-Reform exposes will work.
    I'd go with "necessary but not sufficient".

    IMO Jack Anderton is best described as one of Nigel's Numpties. He is about 24, and a graduate of KCL.

    He thinks that us supporting Ukraine has no implications for our own defence - the Chamberlain analysis (though Chamberlain had heavy constraints).

    If you check his website he goes on about "rising sex crime" illustrated with pictures of muslims and asylum seekers. He does not seem to have copped that about 90% of sex crime is within families and friends networks, and not down to 'ethnic' or 'stranger' danger.

    He links what he says are 500% increases in sex crime (using reported not British Crime Survey data afaics at a quick check so ignoring changes in reporting rate) since 2013 with "this region hosts most asylum seekers". Therefore guess what the cause is?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xHbjksys_M
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,838
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Keir has spoken.

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1956692156099244329

    To give him credit where it’s due, this is one issue on which he can’t really be faulted. Thankfully UK support for Ukraine is almost universal and across party lines.

    Thankfully Boris Johnson beat Jeremy Corbyn in 2019, I suspect the old commie’s attitude to this conflict would have been quite different.

    Except the party leading the polls.
    And this is the curious thing.

    Its perfectly possible to have a pro-western, strong defence patriotic, reform as an alt-right party.

    In fact it would likely have greater potential support than the anti-western putinism that Farage dabbles in.

    The putinism of the Christian ethno-nationalists is even more baffling as it is Putin's strategy to encourage more migration to the western world.
    It's because they see Russia as a bastion of traditional values. It's white, Christian, antiwoke. In their mental word-cloud "muscular" and "unpolluted" would be prominent.
    You said Sir Keir was “muscular” as well! Are these tough guys smothered in baby oil when you think of them?
    Hang on, Boris surely. And it was that Philip Tompkins not me.
    I am sure you said people would start to associate the word "muscular" with Sir Keir if he kept sending out those tough guy tweets
    It appears I did yes. I hope I was joking but sometimes even I'm not sure when I am.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,281
    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just what was said in the Beast ?

    I'll never forget how a longtime friend of mine—a Trump-supporting member of the Republican National Committee!!—called me up after seeing @realDonaldTrump's beaten-dog-like demeanor and posture at Helsinki.

    My friend asked, "Do you think Putin really has something on Trump?"

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1956751251787415783

    100% doesn't look like someone who's asked "Can I have that VHS of me and the 14yr-old Jeff arranged back?" and been told "Nyet!".
    That's one possibility.

    Trump's demeanour pre and post Beast certainly deserves considering.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,366

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: Putin demands Ukraine surrender Donetsk in exchange for peace


    Telegraph


    If that is correct, and Putin is "sincere", then the Ukes should take that. It's a dismal outcome, but continuing this horrific war is even worse

    I'd be slightly surprised in this is a genuine offer. Putin will have sacrificed 100,000s of his young men for a fairly impoverished coalmining bit of East Ukraine. Will his nationalist supporters buy that?

    So Russia cannot gain it so it wants to be given it.

    Continuing the war is far, far better as it steadily ruins the Russian economy, destroys the Russian military and kills hundred of thousands more Russians.

    The underlying fact that Europeans leaders need to remember is:

    THE MORE DEAD RUSSIANS THE BETTER.
    Er, it also means thousands of dead Ukrainians. Maybe tens of thousands

    End the war. Do a Korea
    By 'do a Korea' do you mean that £50k US troops will be stationed in Ukraine with nuclear weapons ?

    Nor did South Korea give up any land.

    You really do have a substandard IQ.

    Nor do you give a toss about the Ukrainians, if you did you would support them.

    Instead you just want to give Russia whatever it wants because you're bored and lack commitment.
    Sweet Jesus, are we back to "stop it, you're lowering PB morale"?

    I've been to Ukraine, during this war. Twice. You have not.

    I've been to Lviv, Chernivtsi, Kyiv, Odesa, all over. I've been in trains and buses and taxis - and bomb shelters. I've been on an Odesan boulevard as a chunk of drone hit the road creating the loudest, most terrifying noise I've ever heard. I've watched from a hotel balcony as Putin tried to bomb my very hotel, at night. The next night a missile took out a building about 300 yards away, as I slept

    I've met dozens of Ukrainians of all ages, I've seen the flags of the dead in Maidan square, I've seen all the young men in crutches, missing limbs, in wheelchairs. I've had drinks with Ukrainians and listened to them casually say "oh yes, my three best friends from college are already dead, I'm going back to the front tomorrow, I'm not expecting to survive"

    And so on, and so forth

    I don't want any more of them to die. I like Ukrainians. I also like Russians (even as I despise their regime). I don't want them to die, either. I like humans in general, and I have a special fondness for young humans, who are the future, I don't want them to die

    If the war can be stopped in a way that ends the killing while securing most of Ukraine (ex Donetsk) they should try and do that deal. We will then need to shore up Ukraine's defences, indeed all our defences, so Putin can never try this again because he would meet with certain defeat

    So, with all due respect, go jump in a toxic lake
    Well said.

    Except I would have said 'Go and jump in a toxic lake.'
    How much land should Russia give up for peace ?
    How much current IRA activity should the UK ignore for peace? How many past IRA murderers should the UK Government brush under the carpet for piece? Peace deals aren't satisfactory - by their nature they involve compromise with the enemy, often unjust compromise.
    So how much land should Russia give up for peace ?

    And it isn't peace if its just the next step for further war.
    Ukraine isn't holding any Russian land (as I understand it), so Russia doesn't have to give up any land.
    Russia should give up land as part of their reparations for the war. :)
    Russia has been appalling, despicable, and they 'should' have to do many things, but this is isn't about justice, it's about future people being alive, not dead.
    What does that matter when we have the virtuous radiating their worthiness here and applying the PB purity test to all comers.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,609
    Trump will distract the press from his Alaskan humiliation when one of his brownshirts shoots somebody

    https://bsky.app/profile/rgoodlaw.bsky.social/post/3lwjx5kd7l22u
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,609
    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just what was said in the Beast ?

    I'll never forget how a longtime friend of mine—a Trump-supporting member of the Republican National Committee!!—called me up after seeing @realDonaldTrump's beaten-dog-like demeanor and posture at Helsinki.

    My friend asked, "Do you think Putin really has something on Trump?"

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1956751251787415783

    100% doesn't look like someone who's asked "Can I have that VHS of me and the 14yr-old Jeff arranged back?" and been told "Nyet!".
    That's one possibility.

    Trump's demeanour pre and post Beast certainly deserves considering.
    He was expecting Santa to bring him a Nobel Peace Prize.

    He got a small lump of coal...
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,715
    Nigelb said:

    Cicero said:

    Nigelb said:

    Again, the US commitment to any deal, after it is done, is worth precisely nothing.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c2kzn1nw1d4t
    A former US Nato representative says it's "just not credible" that Ukraine could be offered the protection of Nato members after a peace deal is agreed without actually joining the organisation formally.
    As our Ukraine correspondent wrote earlier, there have been reports that security guarantees for Ukraine were discussed in Alaska which could see Ukraine’s allies, including the US, promising to intervene if Russia decided to attack it again.
    But, speaking a bit earlier to the BBC News channel, former US Nato representative Ivo Daalder challenged the feasibility of the security plan.
    "I don't believe that President Trump is willing to go to war against Russia to protect Ukraine," he says, observing that none of the Nato members were willing to do so either when Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022.
    "No one in Europe today trusts Donald Trump's US to defend them if they were attacked, and no-one in Ukraine is going to believe that unless and until they are the member of the one organisation that exists explicitly for that purpose," he explains...


    Why are we allowing Trump to decide our future ?

    Because he is blackmailing us over NATO.
    I get that.
    But if that's the case, why allow it ?

    So unreliable an ally isn't worth the effort of compromising your own security to keep onside.

    And we'd anyway quite probably have a better chance of doing so if we pushed back. Trump tends to back down in the face of resistance.
    For a while at least Europe needs time to rearm, and breaking the alliance prematurely causes more problems than it solves. Furthermore Trump is prepared to play very dirty. So while I agree that a treacherous friend is far more dangerous than a clear enemy, this may not be the time to say so. Nevertheless the Atlantic alliance in its previous form is quite clearly dead, and we had better get used to the idea. The midterms may help a bit, in that there is a good chance that Trump is crippled, but that is not certain and there are other Trump's out there. Bearing in mind that Farage could be a US trojan horse, and backed with plenty of dark American cash. So, for a while we need to hedge our bets- as Starmer has had to do (through clenched teeth). Nevertheless a breach seems inevitable sometime, especially of the US faces a financial/economic crisis and tries to lash out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,281
    Taz said:

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: Putin demands Ukraine surrender Donetsk in exchange for peace


    Telegraph


    If that is correct, and Putin is "sincere", then the Ukes should take that. It's a dismal outcome, but continuing this horrific war is even worse

    I'd be slightly surprised in this is a genuine offer. Putin will have sacrificed 100,000s of his young men for a fairly impoverished coalmining bit of East Ukraine. Will his nationalist supporters buy that?

    So Russia cannot gain it so it wants to be given it.

    Continuing the war is far, far better as it steadily ruins the Russian economy, destroys the Russian military and kills hundred of thousands more Russians.

    The underlying fact that Europeans leaders need to remember is:

    THE MORE DEAD RUSSIANS THE BETTER.
    Er, it also means thousands of dead Ukrainians. Maybe tens of thousands

    End the war. Do a Korea
    By 'do a Korea' do you mean that £50k US troops will be stationed in Ukraine with nuclear weapons ?

    Nor did South Korea give up any land.

    You really do have a substandard IQ.

    Nor do you give a toss about the Ukrainians, if you did you would support them.

    Instead you just want to give Russia whatever it wants because you're bored and lack commitment.
    Sweet Jesus, are we back to "stop it, you're lowering PB morale"?

    I've been to Ukraine, during this war. Twice. You have not.

    I've been to Lviv, Chernivtsi, Kyiv, Odesa, all over. I've been in trains and buses and taxis - and bomb shelters. I've been on an Odesan boulevard as a chunk of drone hit the road creating the loudest, most terrifying noise I've ever heard. I've watched from a hotel balcony as Putin tried to bomb my very hotel, at night. The next night a missile took out a building about 300 yards away, as I slept

    I've met dozens of Ukrainians of all ages, I've seen the flags of the dead in Maidan square, I've seen all the young men in crutches, missing limbs, in wheelchairs. I've had drinks with Ukrainians and listened to them casually say "oh yes, my three best friends from college are already dead, I'm going back to the front tomorrow, I'm not expecting to survive"

    And so on, and so forth

    I don't want any more of them to die. I like Ukrainians. I also like Russians (even as I despise their regime). I don't want them to die, either. I like humans in general, and I have a special fondness for young humans, who are the future, I don't want them to die

    If the war can be stopped in a way that ends the killing while securing most of Ukraine (ex Donetsk) they should try and do that deal. We will then need to shore up Ukraine's defences, indeed all our defences, so Putin can never try this again because he would meet with certain defeat

    So, with all due respect, go jump in a toxic lake
    Well said.

    Except I would have said 'Go and jump in a toxic lake.'
    How much land should Russia give up for peace ?
    How much current IRA activity should the UK ignore for peace? How many past IRA murderers should the UK Government brush under the carpet for piece? Peace deals aren't satisfactory - by their nature they involve compromise with the enemy, often unjust compromise.
    So how much land should Russia give up for peace ?

    And it isn't peace if its just the next step for further war.
    Ukraine isn't holding any Russian land (as I understand it), so Russia doesn't have to give up any land.
    Russia should give up land as part of their reparations for the war. :)
    Russia has been appalling, despicable, and they 'should' have to do many things, but this is isn't about justice, it's about future people being alive, not dead.
    What does that matter when we have the virtuous radiating their worthiness here and applying the PB purity test to all comers.
    Straw manning judgey stuff.

    The test is Europe's security.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,373
    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    BBC Archive have released loads of good videos. One of the best channels on YouTube IMHO.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,445

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see our low IQ pollsters are getting overexcited based on a subsamples as low as 122 of 18 to 24 year olds.

    Belief has also surged in older people, just not as much


    “Among 25-49-year-olds, belief has risen more modestly, from 21 per cent to 33 per cent over the same period

    Which is still an incredible rise

    That said, this poll repeats the dubious assertion about a massive rise in churchgoing - which has been plausibly questioned by many

    So 🤷🏼‍♂️
    This looks like it's the underlying survey;

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/brits-beliefs-about-gods?crossBreak=1824

    Six monthly tracker, and both the 16 and 45 are oddly cherry-picked. (The most recent survey is back to 37-32 belief.)

    Does look like something interesting happened between August 2022 and February 2023, but not on the scale suggested here. Maybe the rapid fall of Truss caused people to say "Thank God for that".
    Yes, that's a weird selection. But let's disentangle them (with the SUBSET CAVEAT in mind)

    In August 2019, a total of 39% of young people believed either in God/Gods or a "spiritual greater power". Whereas 42% declared total atheism - the atheists had a narrow but clear majority

    Now? In August 2025? A total of 55% of young people believe in God/Gods or a spiritual greater power, and just 32% are convinced atheists, the believers are now in the majority and by a big distance

    That is a profound change, and does suggest Something is Going On

    What’s going on, as usual, is your inability to understand basic maths.
    Fiction writers don't do maths, surely?
    Only in the racier bits of the finance industry.
    Well I’ve just made several hundred quid writing about this little poll, this afternoon, for Tickler’s Weekly (Australian edition) so maybe my maths is not entirely shot

    That is to say, on seeing the poll I saw the underlying equation:

    Startling poll + my talent = money
    Several hundred pounds!
    Not so bad for a couple of hours on a lazy Saturday afternoon - which I would otherwise have spent faffing about on here, probably
    It's more than I earned today, I'll give you that.

    Bit of cheap and cheerful clickbait?
    Started out that way, but became something more serious and considered

    I'm proud of my final line
    Was it "ENOUGH"?
    BRACE!

    Actually it is interesting, the process

    I've noticed of late the LESS time I spend on a column, the better

    That is to say: if I am in the zone I can write one in 40 minutes (as I did today). Then I spend an hour or so browsing 1960s Murano glass, obviously racist news, and softcore VPN'd porn on the net, then I return to the column and polish it up in 10-20 minutes. And it's good to go

    So actually an hour's work. For what most people earn in a day if they are pretty lucky. And often PB has done most of the research and argumentation for me, by debating the point

    I recommend this line of work, it's fun

    However if a column takes me hours and hours, that's a sure sign it will be less good, perhaps even crap
    I don’t write for magazines, newspapers, but I do write scientific journal papers and I recognise this. Generally I find the longer I take refining a paper the less happy I become with it. Not sure why. Might just be overfamiliarity with it.
    Suspect it's also that "good physics is beautiful" thing. If the story of the thing being written (a technical paper, a lesson, even a column) is sound, each sucessive step is obvious once you have taken the previous one. Doesn't mean that the path is signposted, and it might be badly overgrown, but the path is there. If the story isn't right yet, it's much more painful to turn it into words.

    So kind of the reverse cause and effect- if the article isn't easy to write, it's not yet ready to write . Though that may just be an aversion to the effort of writing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,345
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Reform are to falter by the next election, then it will be things like this, a bit like the anti Brit cranks which hamstrung Labour in the 1980s.

    Farage adviser said UK would be better off if it had not fought Nazi Germany

    Exclusive: Jack Anderton says UK may ‘regain’ former colonies in future and suggests end to support for Ukraine


    An adviser used by Nigel Farage and others in Reform UK to boost their social media popularity has suggested that Britain would be better off had it stayed neutral in the second world war instead of fighting Nazi Germany.

    Jack Anderton, who ran Farage’s hugely successful TikTok account before helping Luke Campbell become the Reform mayor of Hull and East Yorkshire, also said the UK should not support Ukraine in its fight against Russian aggression.

    In a post on his personal blog about Britain’s international standing, Anderton said that in a future world of “meritocracy”, the UK could “regain” former colonies such as Australia, Canada and South Africa.

    He added that the UK should copy the policy of mass incarceration carried out by El Salvador’s president, Nayib Bukele, widely condemned as an abuse of human rights.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/16/nigel-farage-adviser-uk-would-be-better-off-if-it-had-not-fought-nazi-germany

    I don't think any of these anti-Reform exposes will work.
    I'd go with "necessary but not sufficient".

    IMO Jack Anderton is best described as one of Nigel's Numpties. He is about 24, and a graduate of KCL.

    He thinks that us supporting Ukraine has no implications for our own defence.

    If you check his website he goes on about "rising sex crime" illustrated with pictures of muslims and asylum seekers. He does not seem to have copped that about 90% of sex crime is within families and friends networks, and not down to 'ethnic' or 'stranger' danger.

    He links what he says are 500% increases in sex crime (using reported not British Crime Survey data afaics at a quick check) since 2013 with "this region hosts most asylum seekers". Therefore guess what the cause is?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xHbjksys_M
    Sex crimes may be mostly within family and friend networks, but that would not account for 'rising' levels above the rate of population increase would it?

    In fact, sex crimes would usually take place within family and friend networks because of means and opportunity - if one has caring responsibilities and is trusted with those who are one's prey, that enables the crime. It also means that discovery may be delayed. With the subject that may not be discussed, another type of means and another type of delayed justice manifested themselves. So it's unsurprising that a huge quantity of such crimes took place. It was the family setting on an accelerated, metastisising scale.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,501
    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    And 13 years later computers were beating GMs at chess. The Rubik cube now gets solved in a second or two by robots.

    Cool program, bookmarked to watch later.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,366
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: Putin demands Ukraine surrender Donetsk in exchange for peace


    Telegraph


    If that is correct, and Putin is "sincere", then the Ukes should take that. It's a dismal outcome, but continuing this horrific war is even worse

    I'd be slightly surprised in this is a genuine offer. Putin will have sacrificed 100,000s of his young men for a fairly impoverished coalmining bit of East Ukraine. Will his nationalist supporters buy that?

    So Russia cannot gain it so it wants to be given it.

    Continuing the war is far, far better as it steadily ruins the Russian economy, destroys the Russian military and kills hundred of thousands more Russians.

    The underlying fact that Europeans leaders need to remember is:

    THE MORE DEAD RUSSIANS THE BETTER.
    Er, it also means thousands of dead Ukrainians. Maybe tens of thousands

    End the war. Do a Korea
    By 'do a Korea' do you mean that £50k US troops will be stationed in Ukraine with nuclear weapons ?

    Nor did South Korea give up any land.

    You really do have a substandard IQ.

    Nor do you give a toss about the Ukrainians, if you did you would support them.

    Instead you just want to give Russia whatever it wants because you're bored and lack commitment.
    Sweet Jesus, are we back to "stop it, you're lowering PB morale"?

    I've been to Ukraine, during this war. Twice. You have not.

    I've been to Lviv, Chernivtsi, Kyiv, Odesa, all over. I've been in trains and buses and taxis - and bomb shelters. I've been on an Odesan boulevard as a chunk of drone hit the road creating the loudest, most terrifying noise I've ever heard. I've watched from a hotel balcony as Putin tried to bomb my very hotel, at night. The next night a missile took out a building about 300 yards away, as I slept

    I've met dozens of Ukrainians of all ages, I've seen the flags of the dead in Maidan square, I've seen all the young men in crutches, missing limbs, in wheelchairs. I've had drinks with Ukrainians and listened to them casually say "oh yes, my three best friends from college are already dead, I'm going back to the front tomorrow, I'm not expecting to survive"

    And so on, and so forth

    I don't want any more of them to die. I like Ukrainians. I also like Russians (even as I despise their regime). I don't want them to die, either. I like humans in general, and I have a special fondness for young humans, who are the future, I don't want them to die

    If the war can be stopped in a way that ends the killing while securing most of Ukraine (ex Donetsk) they should try and do that deal. We will then need to shore up Ukraine's defences, indeed all our defences, so Putin can never try this again because he would meet with certain defeat

    So, with all due respect, go jump in a toxic lake
    Well said.

    Except I would have said 'Go and jump in a toxic lake.'
    How much land should Russia give up for peace ?
    How much current IRA activity should the UK ignore for peace? How many past IRA murderers should the UK Government brush under the carpet for piece? Peace deals aren't satisfactory - by their nature they involve compromise with the enemy, often unjust compromise.
    So how much land should Russia give up for peace ?

    And it isn't peace if its just the next step for further war.
    Ukraine isn't holding any Russian land (as I understand it), so Russia doesn't have to give up any land.
    Russia should give up land as part of their reparations for the war. :)
    Russia has been appalling, despicable, and they 'should' have to do many things, but this is isn't about justice, it's about future people being alive, not dead.
    What does that matter when we have the virtuous radiating their worthiness here and applying the PB purity test to all comers.
    Straw manning judgey stuff.

    The test is Europe's security.
    Europe needs to step up then and look after its security.

    Effectively we ceded the East of Ukraine to Russia in 2014.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,501
    edited August 16
    Nigelb said:

    Just what was said in the Beast ?

    I'll never forget how a longtime friend of mine—a Trump-supporting member of the Republican National Committee!!—called me up after seeing @realDonaldTrump's beaten-dog-like demeanor and posture at Helsinki.

    My friend asked, "Do you think Putin really has something on Trump?"

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1956751251787415783

    Putin was a KGB agent. He’ll be saying nothing and touching nothing in a known enemy car.

    No chance the US spooks didn’t have that car totally wired for audio and video.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,324
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just what was said in the Beast ?

    I'll never forget how a longtime friend of mine—a Trump-supporting member of the Republican National Committee!!—called me up after seeing @realDonaldTrump's beaten-dog-like demeanor and posture at Helsinki.

    My friend asked, "Do you think Putin really has something on Trump?"

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1956751251787415783

    Putin was a KGB agent. He’ll be saying nothing and touching nothing in a known enemy car.

    No chance the US spooks didn’t have that car totally wired for audio and video.
    That was not Putin in that car.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724
    Really looking forward to this.
    Odd choice of tie colour, slight cascade of vomit vibe.

    https://www.facebook.com/100044154143688/posts/pfbid02n4aJC2fzteu2tyRQyPesJkNojG8KvGGCvp5sL56796YMEmkZPLmn6GYjQMxGQtErl/?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,281
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: Putin demands Ukraine surrender Donetsk in exchange for peace


    Telegraph


    If that is correct, and Putin is "sincere", then the Ukes should take that. It's a dismal outcome, but continuing this horrific war is even worse

    I'd be slightly surprised in this is a genuine offer. Putin will have sacrificed 100,000s of his young men for a fairly impoverished coalmining bit of East Ukraine. Will his nationalist supporters buy that?

    So Russia cannot gain it so it wants to be given it.

    Continuing the war is far, far better as it steadily ruins the Russian economy, destroys the Russian military and kills hundred of thousands more Russians.

    The underlying fact that Europeans leaders need to remember is:

    THE MORE DEAD RUSSIANS THE BETTER.
    Er, it also means thousands of dead Ukrainians. Maybe tens of thousands

    End the war. Do a Korea
    By 'do a Korea' do you mean that £50k US troops will be stationed in Ukraine with nuclear weapons ?

    Nor did South Korea give up any land.

    You really do have a substandard IQ.

    Nor do you give a toss about the Ukrainians, if you did you would support them.

    Instead you just want to give Russia whatever it wants because you're bored and lack commitment.
    Sweet Jesus, are we back to "stop it, you're lowering PB morale"?

    I've been to Ukraine, during this war. Twice. You have not.

    I've been to Lviv, Chernivtsi, Kyiv, Odesa, all over. I've been in trains and buses and taxis - and bomb shelters. I've been on an Odesan boulevard as a chunk of drone hit the road creating the loudest, most terrifying noise I've ever heard. I've watched from a hotel balcony as Putin tried to bomb my very hotel, at night. The next night a missile took out a building about 300 yards away, as I slept

    I've met dozens of Ukrainians of all ages, I've seen the flags of the dead in Maidan square, I've seen all the young men in crutches, missing limbs, in wheelchairs. I've had drinks with Ukrainians and listened to them casually say "oh yes, my three best friends from college are already dead, I'm going back to the front tomorrow, I'm not expecting to survive"

    And so on, and so forth

    I don't want any more of them to die. I like Ukrainians. I also like Russians (even as I despise their regime). I don't want them to die, either. I like humans in general, and I have a special fondness for young humans, who are the future, I don't want them to die

    If the war can be stopped in a way that ends the killing while securing most of Ukraine (ex Donetsk) they should try and do that deal. We will then need to shore up Ukraine's defences, indeed all our defences, so Putin can never try this again because he would meet with certain defeat

    So, with all due respect, go jump in a toxic lake
    Well said.

    Except I would have said 'Go and jump in a toxic lake.'
    How much land should Russia give up for peace ?
    How much current IRA activity should the UK ignore for peace? How many past IRA murderers should the UK Government brush under the carpet for piece? Peace deals aren't satisfactory - by their nature they involve compromise with the enemy, often unjust compromise.
    So how much land should Russia give up for peace ?

    And it isn't peace if its just the next step for further war.
    Ukraine isn't holding any Russian land (as I understand it), so Russia doesn't have to give up any land.
    Russia should give up land as part of their reparations for the war. :)
    Russia has been appalling, despicable, and they 'should' have to do many things, but this is isn't about justice, it's about future people being alive, not dead.
    What does that matter when we have the virtuous radiating their worthiness here and applying the PB purity test to all comers.
    Straw manning judgey stuff.

    The test is Europe's security.
    Europe needs to step up then and look after its security.

    Effectively we ceded the East of Ukraine to Russia in 2014.
    We don't disagree on the first part of that.

    But there's no justification for handing Putin further territory and tactical advantage, in return for ... essentially nothing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181

    FYI for our factually challenged posters who frottaged themselves into a frenzy yesterday.

    For those determined to see "2 tier justice" because Ricky Jones was granted bail & Lucy Connolly was not, the facts are these:

    Jones was arrested on 8th & charged on 9th August. He was refused bail and remanded in custody to 6th Sept.

    On 6th Sept he appeared in the Crown Court via video link from prison. He pleaded not guilty. It seems that he was again remanded in custody.

    The Metropolitan Police confirmed on 14th October 2024 that he had been granted bail, presumably sometime shortly before that.

    By way of comparison, Lucy Connolly was remanded in custody on 10th August. Her guilty plea was entered on Sep 2nd and her sentencing adjourned, with her in custody, to Oct 17th

    Before his not guilty plea was entered, and for some time afterwards, Jones was remanded in custody.

    The idea seems to have got around that he had bail from the moment of his first appearance in court. He did not.


    https://x.com/Barristerblog/status/1956786350054617537

    What a load of straw-manning and diversionary bollocks
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,501

    FYI for our factually challenged posters who frottaged themselves into a frenzy yesterday.

    For those determined to see "2 tier justice" because Ricky Jones was granted bail & Lucy Connolly was not, the facts are these:

    Jones was arrested on 8th & charged on 9th August. He was refused bail and remanded in custody to 6th Sept.

    On 6th Sept he appeared in the Crown Court via video link from prison. He pleaded not guilty. It seems that he was again remanded in custody.

    The Metropolitan Police confirmed on 14th October 2024 that he had been granted bail, presumably sometime shortly before that.

    By way of comparison, Lucy Connolly was remanded in custody on 10th August. Her guilty plea was entered on Sep 2nd and her sentencing adjourned, with her in custody, to Oct 17th

    Before his not guilty plea was entered, and for some time afterwards, Jones was remanded in custody.

    The idea seems to have got around that he had bail from the moment of his first appearance in court. He did not.


    https://x.com/Barristerblog/status/1956786350054617537

    So there’s something of a grey area in the process by which Mr Jones was granted bail.

    Good to see it confirmed. No transcripts of a hearing, or reporting from when it happened? Because there were definitely not hundreds of journalists following all these cases at the time…
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,838
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see our low IQ pollsters are getting overexcited based on a subsamples as low as 122 of 18 to 24 year olds.

    Belief has also surged in older people, just not as much


    “Among 25-49-year-olds, belief has risen more modestly, from 21 per cent to 33 per cent over the same period

    Which is still an incredible rise

    That said, this poll repeats the dubious assertion about a massive rise in churchgoing - which has been plausibly questioned by many

    So 🤷🏼‍♂️
    This looks like it's the underlying survey;

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/brits-beliefs-about-gods?crossBreak=1824

    Six monthly tracker, and both the 16 and 45 are oddly cherry-picked. (The most recent survey is back to 37-32 belief.)

    Does look like something interesting happened between August 2022 and February 2023, but not on the scale suggested here. Maybe the rapid fall of Truss caused people to say "Thank God for that".
    Yes, that's a weird selection. But let's disentangle them (with the SUBSET CAVEAT in mind)

    In August 2019, a total of 39% of young people believed either in God/Gods or a "spiritual greater power". Whereas 42% declared total atheism - the atheists had a narrow but clear majority

    Now? In August 2025? A total of 55% of young people believe in God/Gods or a spiritual greater power, and just 32% are convinced atheists, the believers are now in the majority and by a big distance

    That is a profound change, and does suggest Something is Going On

    What’s going on, as usual, is your inability to understand basic maths.
    Fiction writers don't do maths, surely?
    Only in the racier bits of the finance industry.
    Well I’ve just made several hundred quid writing about this little poll, this afternoon, for Tickler’s Weekly (Australian edition) so maybe my maths is not entirely shot

    That is to say, on seeing the poll I saw the underlying equation:

    Startling poll + my talent = money
    Several hundred pounds!
    Not so bad for a couple of hours on a lazy Saturday afternoon - which I would otherwise have spent faffing about on here, probably
    It's more than I earned today, I'll give you that.

    Bit of cheap and cheerful clickbait?
    Started out that way, but became something more serious and considered

    I'm proud of my final line
    Was it "ENOUGH"?
    BRACE!

    Actually it is interesting, the process

    I've noticed of late the LESS time I spend on a column, the better

    That is to say: if I am in the zone I can write one in 40 minutes (as I did today). Then I spend an hour or so browsing 1960s Murano glass, obviously racist news, and softcore VPN'd porn on the net, then I return to the column and polish it up in 10-20 minutes. And it's good to go

    So actually an hour's work. For what most people earn in a day if they are pretty lucky. And often PB has done most of the research and argumentation for me, by debating the point

    I recommend this line of work, it's fun

    However if a column takes me hours and hours, that's a sure sign it will be less good, perhaps even crap
    Recognise the phenomenon but I find the opposite with my stuff (ie my posting on here). My best ones are where I do multiple drafts, each one a marginal improvement on the last, then put it aside for a week or so, create some detachment, then bring it out again for a final polish, then (and only if I'm truly satisfied) publish. It might be just a couple of sentences, or even a one liner, but that's the sort of work that goes into it.

    Apols to those who'd rather just eat my sausages than know how they're made.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,210
    edited August 16
    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    And 13 years later computers were beating GMs at chess. The Rubik cube now gets solved in a second or two by robots.

    Cool program, bookmarked to watch later.
    Which doesn't show that they can think. (John Searle's 'The Chinese Room'.) Though I guess the jury must be out about this in relation to to modern forms of AI and its future - is it possible that a stage is reached where it is doing what can only be done by an actually thinking being.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,324
    QTWTAIN

    Michael McFaul
    @McFaul
    ·
    3h
    In his many years of nurturing his friendship with Putin, Trump has not secured one tangible outcome from Putin that has benefited the American people or our allies and partners. At least, I can’t think of one concession or deliverable or agreement. Can you?

    https://x.com/McFaul/status/1956758241993544044
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I see our low IQ pollsters are getting overexcited based on a subsamples as low as 122 of 18 to 24 year olds.

    Belief has also surged in older people, just not as much


    “Among 25-49-year-olds, belief has risen more modestly, from 21 per cent to 33 per cent over the same period

    Which is still an incredible rise

    That said, this poll repeats the dubious assertion about a massive rise in churchgoing - which has been plausibly questioned by many

    So 🤷🏼‍♂️
    This looks like it's the underlying survey;

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/brits-beliefs-about-gods?crossBreak=1824

    Six monthly tracker, and both the 16 and 45 are oddly cherry-picked. (The most recent survey is back to 37-32 belief.)

    Does look like something interesting happened between August 2022 and February 2023, but not on the scale suggested here. Maybe the rapid fall of Truss caused people to say "Thank God for that".
    Yes, that's a weird selection. But let's disentangle them (with the SUBSET CAVEAT in mind)

    In August 2019, a total of 39% of young people believed either in God/Gods or a "spiritual greater power". Whereas 42% declared total atheism - the atheists had a narrow but clear majority

    Now? In August 2025? A total of 55% of young people believe in God/Gods or a spiritual greater power, and just 32% are convinced atheists, the believers are now in the majority and by a big distance

    That is a profound change, and does suggest Something is Going On

    What’s going on, as usual, is your inability to understand basic maths.
    Fiction writers don't do maths, surely?
    Only in the racier bits of the finance industry.
    Well I’ve just made several hundred quid writing about this little poll, this afternoon, for Tickler’s Weekly (Australian edition) so maybe my maths is not entirely shot

    That is to say, on seeing the poll I saw the underlying equation:

    Startling poll + my talent = money
    Several hundred pounds!
    Not so bad for a couple of hours on a lazy Saturday afternoon - which I would otherwise have spent faffing about on here, probably
    It's more than I earned today, I'll give you that.

    Bit of cheap and cheerful clickbait?
    Started out that way, but became something more serious and considered

    I'm proud of my final line
    Was it "ENOUGH"?
    BRACE!

    Actually it is interesting, the process

    I've noticed of late the LESS time I spend on a column, the better

    That is to say: if I am in the zone I can write one in 40 minutes (as I did today). Then I spend an hour or so browsing 1960s Murano glass, obviously racist news, and softcore VPN'd porn on the net, then I return to the column and polish it up in 10-20 minutes. And it's good to go

    So actually an hour's work. For what most people earn in a day if they are pretty lucky. And often PB has done most of the research and argumentation for me, by debating the point

    I recommend this line of work, it's fun

    However if a column takes me hours and hours, that's a sure sign it will be less good, perhaps even crap
    Recognise the phenomenon but I find the opposite with my stuff (ie my posting on here). My best ones are where I do multiple drafts, each one a marginal improvement on the last, then put it aside for a week or so, create some detachment, then bring it out again for a final polish, then (and only if I'm truly satisfied) publish. It might be just a couple of sentences, or even a one liner, but that's the sort of work that goes into it.

    Apols to those who'd rather just eat my sausages than know how they're made.
    As we are being relatively civil, and I am in a benign mood (after yesterday's weird, brief, intense weepiness) I offer this compliment: you are rather good at the well-judged self-satirising comment that havers elegantly on the edge of absurdity ("surely he's not that ludicrous? Is he?")

    This is a fine example. For a moment I thought "OMG this is what he really does". Bravo
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,281
    Trump has called Norwegian officials to tell them he wants the Nobel Peace Prize while threatening to tariff the country.
    https://x.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1956391014408876394

    Art of the Deal.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,562

    Really looking forward to this.
    Odd choice of tie colour, slight cascade of vomit vibe.

    https://www.facebook.com/100044154143688/posts/pfbid02n4aJC2fzteu2tyRQyPesJkNojG8KvGGCvp5sL56796YMEmkZPLmn6GYjQMxGQtErl/?

    I am in Edinburgh that week (RSS Conference). I won't go to see him, unfortunately, because I've already paid for the conf.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    Question for those who claim Trump is endangering us

    How?

    AFAICS he has not - as feared - torn up the NATO Treaties. Nor has he withdrawn the nuclear umbrella. American soldiers still guard Europe

    He has strengthened America's borders, which benefits us arguably, he has alienated world opinion against America, which disbenefits us, arguably (but both are tenuous, let's call it a wash)

    What he has done is this: he has terrified European leaders - with the mere threat of abandoning NATO - into upping their game and spending a lot more money (and thought) on defence (and this was and is sadly necessary). He has told wanker parasite countries like Spain and Ireland to stop being wankers, and cough up: this is also good and necessary

    Re Ukraine he is seeking a peace deal. Is this so much worse than Biden who was content to give Ukraine just enough ammo and guns to keep fighting, but never enough to "win", guarenteeing this dangerous war went on and on, and killing tens of thousands on both sides?

    I'm really not sure it is worse than Biden's policy

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,575

    If Reform are to falter by the next election, then it will be things like this, a bit like the anti Brit cranks which hamstrung Labour in the 1980s.

    Farage adviser said UK would be better off if it had not fought Nazi Germany

    Hitler phones Starmer:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLHHVy8n95I
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Keir has spoken.

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1956692156099244329

    To give him credit where it’s due, this is one issue on which he can’t really be faulted. Thankfully UK support for Ukraine is almost universal and across party lines.

    Thankfully Boris Johnson beat Jeremy Corbyn in 2019, I suspect the old commie’s attitude to this conflict would have been quite different.

    Except the party leading the polls.
    And this is the curious thing.

    Its perfectly possible to have a pro-western, strong defence patriotic, reform as an alt-right party.

    In fact it would likely have greater potential support than the anti-western putinism that Farage dabbles in.

    The putinism of the Christian ethno-nationalists is even more baffling as it is Putin's strategy to encourage more migration to the western world.
    It's because they see Russia as a bastion of traditional values. It's white, Christian, antiwoke. In their mental word-cloud "muscular" and "unpolluted" would be prominent.
    You said Sir Keir was “muscular” as well! Are these tough guys smothered in baby oil when you think of them?
    Hang on, Boris surely. And it was that Philip Tompkins not me.
    @kinabalu May 18

    "No messing about there. Polls will confirm (or not) but a word that probably leaps to many people's minds when thinking about Keir Starmer is "muscular". He'd take that, I reckon, if it turns out to be the case."

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5210589/#Comment_5210589
    Hey

    PB's favourite postie!

    @BlancheLivermore how are you? How is the recovery?
    Not too bad, thanks

    I'm in a lot less pain; I can now cough and laugh without morphine

    Though this means that I sometimes roll over in my sleep, then wake up with my weight on my broken ribs. Luckily I do have some morphine left for those mornings..

    My ankle is going to take a few more weeks to set, and I have to keep weight off it completely. They would have operated on it and screwed the fracture together, but general anaesthetic is apparently risky with broken ribs, so the anle is healing naturally

    I hope it heals well. I really do need working ankles
    Fuck me

    That sounds pretty grim, to be honest. I was kinda hoping you were up and about. Sympathies

    What a horrible thing

    Get well. If you die I will write a weird and charming obituary about "Britain's most unexpectedly politically well-informed postman", but try not to die
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,210
    Sandpit said:

    FYI for our factually challenged posters who frottaged themselves into a frenzy yesterday.

    For those determined to see "2 tier justice" because Ricky Jones was granted bail & Lucy Connolly was not, the facts are these:

    Jones was arrested on 8th & charged on 9th August. He was refused bail and remanded in custody to 6th Sept.

    On 6th Sept he appeared in the Crown Court via video link from prison. He pleaded not guilty. It seems that he was again remanded in custody.

    The Metropolitan Police confirmed on 14th October 2024 that he had been granted bail, presumably sometime shortly before that.

    By way of comparison, Lucy Connolly was remanded in custody on 10th August. Her guilty plea was entered on Sep 2nd and her sentencing adjourned, with her in custody, to Oct 17th

    Before his not guilty plea was entered, and for some time afterwards, Jones was remanded in custody.

    The idea seems to have got around that he had bail from the moment of his first appearance in court. He did not.


    https://x.com/Barristerblog/status/1956786350054617537

    So there’s something of a grey area in the process by which Mr Jones was granted bail.

    Good to see it confirmed. No transcripts of a hearing, or reporting from when it happened? Because there were definitely not hundreds of journalists following all these cases at the time…
    Jones and Connolly were charged with very different offences.
    Jones: Serious Crime Act 2007 sec 45
    Connolly: Public Order Act 1986 sec 19(1).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,324
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    And 13 years later computers were beating GMs at chess. The Rubik cube now gets solved in a second or two by robots.

    Cool program, bookmarked to watch later.
    Which doesn't show that they can think. (John Searle's 'The Chinese Room'.) Though I guess the jury must be out about this in relation to to modern forms of AI and its future - is it possible that a stage is reached where it is doing what can only be done by an actually thinking being.
    The 1970s-early 1980s office plants in the background are superb.

    And the corduroy jackets.

    Of its time there is no doubt.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,575
    Leon said:

    Question for those who claim Trump is endangering us

    How?

    AFAICS he has not - as feared - torn up the NATO Treaties. Nor has he withdrawn the nuclear umbrella. American soldiers still guard Europe

    He has strengthened America's borders, which benefits us arguably, he has alienated world opinion against America, which disbenefits us, arguably (but both are tenuous, let's call it a wash)

    What he has done is this: he has terrified European leaders - with the mere threat of abandoning NATO - into upping their game and spending a lot more money (and thought) on defence (and this was and is sadly necessary). He has told wanker parasite countries like Spain and Ireland to stop being wankers, and cough up: this is also good and necessary

    Re Ukraine he is seeking a peace deal. Is this so much worse than Biden who was content to give Ukraine just enough ammo and guns to keep fighting, but never enough to "win", guarenteeing this dangerous war went on and on, and killing tens of thousands on both sides?

    I'm really not sure it is worse than Biden's policy

    I've already told you millions of times: Putin can end the war yesterday by withdrawing to the 1991 border.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,501

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Keir has spoken.

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1956692156099244329

    To give him credit where it’s due, this is one issue on which he can’t really be faulted. Thankfully UK support for Ukraine is almost universal and across party lines.

    Thankfully Boris Johnson beat Jeremy Corbyn in 2019, I suspect the old commie’s attitude to this conflict would have been quite different.

    Except the party leading the polls.
    And this is the curious thing.

    Its perfectly possible to have a pro-western, strong defence patriotic, reform as an alt-right party.

    In fact it would likely have greater potential support than the anti-western putinism that Farage dabbles in.

    The putinism of the Christian ethno-nationalists is even more baffling as it is Putin's strategy to encourage more migration to the western world.
    It's because they see Russia as a bastion of traditional values. It's white, Christian, antiwoke. In their mental word-cloud "muscular" and "unpolluted" would be prominent.
    You said Sir Keir was “muscular” as well! Are these tough guys smothered in baby oil when you think of them?
    Hang on, Boris surely. And it was that Philip Tompkins not me.
    @kinabalu May 18

    "No messing about there. Polls will confirm (or not) but a word that probably leaps to many people's minds when thinking about Keir Starmer is "muscular". He'd take that, I reckon, if it turns out to be the case."

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5210589/#Comment_5210589
    Hey

    PB's favourite postie!

    @BlancheLivermore how are you? How is the recovery?
    Not too bad, thanks

    I'm in a lot less pain; I can now cough and laugh without morphine

    Though this means that I sometimes roll over in my sleep, then wake up with my weight on my broken ribs. Luckily I do have some morphine left for those mornings..

    My ankle is going to take a few more weeks to set, and I have to keep weight off it completely. They would have operated on it and screwed the fracture together, but general anaesthetic is apparently risky with broken ribs, so the anle is healing naturally

    I hope it heals well. I really do need working ankles
    Ouch! What happened, you got hit by a vehicle?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,281

    Leon said:

    Question for those who claim Trump is endangering us

    How?

    AFAICS he has not - as feared - torn up the NATO Treaties. Nor has he withdrawn the nuclear umbrella. American soldiers still guard Europe

    He has strengthened America's borders, which benefits us arguably, he has alienated world opinion against America, which disbenefits us, arguably (but both are tenuous, let's call it a wash)

    What he has done is this: he has terrified European leaders - with the mere threat of abandoning NATO - into upping their game and spending a lot more money (and thought) on defence (and this was and is sadly necessary). He has told wanker parasite countries like Spain and Ireland to stop being wankers, and cough up: this is also good and necessary

    Re Ukraine he is seeking a peace deal. Is this so much worse than Biden who was content to give Ukraine just enough ammo and guns to keep fighting, but never enough to "win", guarenteeing this dangerous war went on and on, and killing tens of thousands on both sides?

    I'm really not sure it is worse than Biden's policy

    I've already told you millions of times: Putin can end the war yesterday by withdrawing to the 1991 border.
    You're competing with Trumpsplaining.

    Never ends well.
  • algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    And 13 years later computers were beating GMs at chess. The Rubik cube now gets solved in a second or two by robots.

    Cool program, bookmarked to watch later.
    Which doesn't show that they can think. (John Searle's 'The Chinese Room'.) Though I guess the jury must be out about this in relation to to modern forms of AI and its future - is it possible that a stage is reached where it is doing what can only be done by an actually thinking being.
    There's no obvious pathway to actual machine thinking. Current AIs are complex creations that do a very simple task, they string words together to form something related to a question they've been asked. They don't understand those words, they just pattern match the data they've been trained on.

    This is why LLMs like ChartGPT, etc, will confidently produce plausible answers that are complete bollocks. There's no thinking go on, the AI is not intelligent and cannot understand what it is telling you. It just knows the answer it gives you resembles what it knows an answer to that question should look like.

    It's cargo cult intelligence; it creates a facsimile of something it does not and cannot understand and hopes it works like the original.

    That's not to say LLMs are useless, but they don't think and never will.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,999

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    And 13 years later computers were beating GMs at chess. The Rubik cube now gets solved in a second or two by robots.

    Cool program, bookmarked to watch later.
    Which doesn't show that they can think. (John Searle's 'The Chinese Room'.) Though I guess the jury must be out about this in relation to to modern forms of AI and its future - is it possible that a stage is reached where it is doing what can only be done by an actually thinking being.
    There's no obvious pathway to actual machine thinking. Current AIs are complex creations that do a very simple task, they string words together to form something related to a question they've been asked. They don't understand those words, they just pattern match the data they've been trained on.

    This is why LLMs like ChartGPT, etc, will confidently produce plausible answers that are complete bollocks. There's no thinking go on, the AI is not intelligent and cannot understand what it is telling you. It just knows the answer it gives you resembles what it knows an answer to that question should look like.

    It's cargo cult intelligence; it creates a facsimile of something it does not and cannot understand and hopes it works like the original.

    That's not to say LLMs are useless, but they don't think and never will.
    I've been having a useful conversation with ChatGPT about how to make the perfect Negroni (and while it might be easy, even if you assume Campari, there's a lot of different gins and vermouths out there). It's quite good at it, but I assume it's just assembling lots of information that's available on the Internet, and I can't be arsed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,641

    Leon said:

    Question for those who claim Trump is endangering us

    How?

    AFAICS he has not - as feared - torn up the NATO Treaties. Nor has he withdrawn the nuclear umbrella. American soldiers still guard Europe

    He has strengthened America's borders, which benefits us arguably, he has alienated world opinion against America, which disbenefits us, arguably (but both are tenuous, let's call it a wash)

    What he has done is this: he has terrified European leaders - with the mere threat of abandoning NATO - into upping their game and spending a lot more money (and thought) on defence (and this was and is sadly necessary). He has told wanker parasite countries like Spain and Ireland to stop being wankers, and cough up: this is also good and necessary

    Re Ukraine he is seeking a peace deal. Is this so much worse than Biden who was content to give Ukraine just enough ammo and guns to keep fighting, but never enough to "win", guarenteeing this dangerous war went on and on, and killing tens of thousands on both sides?

    I'm really not sure it is worse than Biden's policy

    I've already told you millions of times: Putin can end the war yesterday by withdrawing to the 1991 border.
    I've told you millions of times - don't exaggerate...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,501

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just what was said in the Beast ?

    I'll never forget how a longtime friend of mine—a Trump-supporting member of the Republican National Committee!!—called me up after seeing @realDonaldTrump's beaten-dog-like demeanor and posture at Helsinki.

    My friend asked, "Do you think Putin really has something on Trump?"

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1956751251787415783

    Putin was a KGB agent. He’ll be saying nothing and touching nothing in a known enemy car.

    No chance the US spooks didn’t have that car totally wired for audio and video.
    That was not Putin in that car.
    Ukranian Twitter is still convinced it was a body double and not the real Putin.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,838

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just what was said in the Beast ?

    I'll never forget how a longtime friend of mine—a Trump-supporting member of the Republican National Committee!!—called me up after seeing @realDonaldTrump's beaten-dog-like demeanor and posture at Helsinki.

    My friend asked, "Do you think Putin really has something on Trump?"

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1956751251787415783

    Putin was a KGB agent. He’ll be saying nothing and touching nothing in a known enemy car.

    No chance the US spooks didn’t have that car totally wired for audio and video.
    That was not Putin in that car.
    Is anybody explaining quite why Vladimir Putin would send an impersonator to meet Donald Trump in Alaska?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,324
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Keir has spoken.

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1956692156099244329

    To give him credit where it’s due, this is one issue on which he can’t really be faulted. Thankfully UK support for Ukraine is almost universal and across party lines.

    Thankfully Boris Johnson beat Jeremy Corbyn in 2019, I suspect the old commie’s attitude to this conflict would have been quite different.

    Except the party leading the polls.
    And this is the curious thing.

    Its perfectly possible to have a pro-western, strong defence patriotic, reform as an alt-right party.

    In fact it would likely have greater potential support than the anti-western putinism that Farage dabbles in.

    The putinism of the Christian ethno-nationalists is even more baffling as it is Putin's strategy to encourage more migration to the western world.
    It's because they see Russia as a bastion of traditional values. It's white, Christian, antiwoke. In their mental word-cloud "muscular" and "unpolluted" would be prominent.
    You said Sir Keir was “muscular” as well! Are these tough guys smothered in baby oil when you think of them?
    Hang on, Boris surely. And it was that Philip Tompkins not me.
    @kinabalu May 18

    "No messing about there. Polls will confirm (or not) but a word that probably leaps to many people's minds when thinking about Keir Starmer is "muscular". He'd take that, I reckon, if it turns out to be the case."

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5210589/#Comment_5210589
    Hey

    PB's favourite postie!

    @BlancheLivermore how are you? How is the recovery?
    Not too bad, thanks

    I'm in a lot less pain; I can now cough and laugh without morphine

    Though this means that I sometimes roll over in my sleep, then wake up with my weight on my broken ribs. Luckily I do have some morphine left for those mornings..

    My ankle is going to take a few more weeks to set, and I have to keep weight off it completely. They would have operated on it and screwed the fracture together, but general anaesthetic is apparently risky with broken ribs, so the anle is healing naturally

    I hope it heals well. I really do need working ankles
    Fuck me

    That sounds pretty grim, to be honest. I was kinda hoping you were up and about. Sympathies

    What a horrible thing

    Get well. If you die I will write a weird and charming obituary about "Britain's most unexpectedly politically well-informed postman", but try not to die
    Indeed. get well soon @BlancheLivermore

    The obit could also add that the postman's holidays seem to involve more walking.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,562
    I think I've showed this before, but here's a Vox report on de-aging in real time from the latest Robert Zemeckis film

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBc38VjI7NU
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Keir has spoken.

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1956692156099244329

    To give him credit where it’s due, this is one issue on which he can’t really be faulted. Thankfully UK support for Ukraine is almost universal and across party lines.

    Thankfully Boris Johnson beat Jeremy Corbyn in 2019, I suspect the old commie’s attitude to this conflict would have been quite different.

    Except the party leading the polls.
    And this is the curious thing.

    Its perfectly possible to have a pro-western, strong defence patriotic, reform as an alt-right party.

    In fact it would likely have greater potential support than the anti-western putinism that Farage dabbles in.

    The putinism of the Christian ethno-nationalists is even more baffling as it is Putin's strategy to encourage more migration to the western world.
    It's because they see Russia as a bastion of traditional values. It's white, Christian, antiwoke. In their mental word-cloud "muscular" and "unpolluted" would be prominent.
    You said Sir Keir was “muscular” as well! Are these tough guys smothered in baby oil when you think of them?
    Hang on, Boris surely. And it was that Philip Tompkins not me.
    @kinabalu May 18

    "No messing about there. Polls will confirm (or not) but a word that probably leaps to many people's minds when thinking about Keir Starmer is "muscular". He'd take that, I reckon, if it turns out to be the case."

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5210589/#Comment_5210589
    Hey

    PB's favourite postie!

    @BlancheLivermore how are you? How is the recovery?
    Not too bad, thanks

    I'm in a lot less pain; I can now cough and laugh without morphine

    Though this means that I sometimes roll over in my sleep, then wake up with my weight on my broken ribs. Luckily I do have some morphine left for those mornings..

    My ankle is going to take a few more weeks to set, and I have to keep weight off it completely. They would have operated on it and screwed the fracture together, but general anaesthetic is apparently risky with broken ribs, so the anle is healing naturally

    I hope it heals well. I really do need working ankles
    Fuck me

    That sounds pretty grim, to be honest. I was kinda hoping you were up and about. Sympathies

    What a horrible thing

    Get well. If you die I will write a weird and charming obituary about "Britain's most unexpectedly politically well-informed postman", but try not to die
    Oh, don't worry. I'm definitely recovering well enough; it's just taking a bit longer than I hoped

    I can get around fine on crutches, I'm just trying not to so my ankle fracture doesn't get displaced

    I don't need to go anywhere. My parents live really close and my Mum loves to feed me and my Dad's a recently retired orthopaedic surgeon, so I'm very well looked after
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,324
    The real Putin shows up in public:



    Tymofiy Mylovanov
    @Mylovanov

    Putin, after meeting with Trump: The visit was timely and useful.

    We spoke about resolving the Ukrainian crisis. We respect that Americans want to end it, but the root causes must be eliminated first.

    [Pure 1984 - War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.]

    https://x.com/Mylovanov/status/1956812052909240684
  • Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Keir has spoken.

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1956692156099244329

    To give him credit where it’s due, this is one issue on which he can’t really be faulted. Thankfully UK support for Ukraine is almost universal and across party lines.

    Thankfully Boris Johnson beat Jeremy Corbyn in 2019, I suspect the old commie’s attitude to this conflict would have been quite different.

    Except the party leading the polls.
    And this is the curious thing.

    Its perfectly possible to have a pro-western, strong defence patriotic, reform as an alt-right party.

    In fact it would likely have greater potential support than the anti-western putinism that Farage dabbles in.

    The putinism of the Christian ethno-nationalists is even more baffling as it is Putin's strategy to encourage more migration to the western world.
    It's because they see Russia as a bastion of traditional values. It's white, Christian, antiwoke. In their mental word-cloud "muscular" and "unpolluted" would be prominent.
    You said Sir Keir was “muscular” as well! Are these tough guys smothered in baby oil when you think of them?
    Hang on, Boris surely. And it was that Philip Tompkins not me.
    @kinabalu May 18

    "No messing about there. Polls will confirm (or not) but a word that probably leaps to many people's minds when thinking about Keir Starmer is "muscular". He'd take that, I reckon, if it turns out to be the case."

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5210589/#Comment_5210589
    Hey

    PB's favourite postie!

    @BlancheLivermore how are you? How is the recovery?
    Not too bad, thanks

    I'm in a lot less pain; I can now cough and laugh without morphine

    Though this means that I sometimes roll over in my sleep, then wake up with my weight on my broken ribs. Luckily I do have some morphine left for those mornings..

    My ankle is going to take a few more weeks to set, and I have to keep weight off it completely. They would have operated on it and screwed the fracture together, but general anaesthetic is apparently risky with broken ribs, so the anle is healing naturally

    I hope it heals well. I really do need working ankles
    Ouch! What happened, you got hit by a vehicle?
    Yes, while crossing a road at work

    I've been told that I was thrown about ten foot in the air
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,508
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Keir has spoken.

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1956692156099244329

    To give him credit where it’s due, this is one issue on which he can’t really be faulted. Thankfully UK support for Ukraine is almost universal and across party lines.

    Thankfully Boris Johnson beat Jeremy Corbyn in 2019, I suspect the old commie’s attitude to this conflict would have been quite different.

    Except the party leading the polls.
    And this is the curious thing.

    Its perfectly possible to have a pro-western, strong defence patriotic, reform as an alt-right party.

    In fact it would likely have greater potential support than the anti-western putinism that Farage dabbles in.

    The putinism of the Christian ethno-nationalists is even more baffling as it is Putin's strategy to encourage more migration to the western world.
    It's because they see Russia as a bastion of traditional values. It's white, Christian, antiwoke. In their mental word-cloud "muscular" and "unpolluted" would be prominent.
    You said Sir Keir was “muscular” as well! Are these tough guys smothered in baby oil when you think of them?
    Hang on, Boris surely. And it was that Philip Tompkins not me.
    @kinabalu May 18

    "No messing about there. Polls will confirm (or not) but a word that probably leaps to many people's minds when thinking about Keir Starmer is "muscular". He'd take that, I reckon, if it turns out to be the case."

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5210589/#Comment_5210589
    Hey

    PB's favourite postie!

    @BlancheLivermore how are you? How is the recovery?
    Not too bad, thanks

    I'm in a lot less pain; I can now cough and laugh without morphine

    Though this means that I sometimes roll over in my sleep, then wake up with my weight on my broken ribs. Luckily I do have some morphine left for those mornings..

    My ankle is going to take a few more weeks to set, and I have to keep weight off it completely. They would have operated on it and screwed the fracture together, but general anaesthetic is apparently risky with broken ribs, so the anle is healing naturally

    I hope it heals well. I really do need working ankles
    Fuck me

    That sounds pretty grim, to be honest. I was kinda hoping you were up and about. Sympathies

    What a horrible thing

    Get well. If you die I will write a weird and charming obituary about "Britain's most unexpectedly politically well-informed postman", but try not to die
    I would have thought posties would be among the most attuned to political attitudes - at least the rural ones with some time on their hands to talk to older voters. It's one thing being able to recognise you're in a woke/alt-right bubble; something else entirely to actually talk to thousands of people on a daily basis.

    It's why my retail and charity experience is far more valuable than my professional career in this context. Chatting with UC claimants is eye-opening for a variety of reasons.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,501
    edited August 16

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Keir has spoken.

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1956692156099244329

    To give him credit where it’s due, this is one issue on which he can’t really be faulted. Thankfully UK support for Ukraine is almost universal and across party lines.

    Thankfully Boris Johnson beat Jeremy Corbyn in 2019, I suspect the old commie’s attitude to this conflict would have been quite different.

    Except the party leading the polls.
    And this is the curious thing.

    Its perfectly possible to have a pro-western, strong defence patriotic, reform as an alt-right party.

    In fact it would likely have greater potential support than the anti-western putinism that Farage dabbles in.

    The putinism of the Christian ethno-nationalists is even more baffling as it is Putin's strategy to encourage more migration to the western world.
    It's because they see Russia as a bastion of traditional values. It's white, Christian, antiwoke. In their mental word-cloud "muscular" and "unpolluted" would be prominent.
    You said Sir Keir was “muscular” as well! Are these tough guys smothered in baby oil when you think of them?
    Hang on, Boris surely. And it was that Philip Tompkins not me.
    @kinabalu May 18

    "No messing about there. Polls will confirm (or not) but a word that probably leaps to many people's minds when thinking about Keir Starmer is "muscular". He'd take that, I reckon, if it turns out to be the case."

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5210589/#Comment_5210589
    Hey

    PB's favourite postie!

    @BlancheLivermore how are you? How is the recovery?
    Not too bad, thanks

    I'm in a lot less pain; I can now cough and laugh without morphine

    Though this means that I sometimes roll over in my sleep, then wake up with my weight on my broken ribs. Luckily I do have some morphine left for those mornings..

    My ankle is going to take a few more weeks to set, and I have to keep weight off it completely. They would have operated on it and screwed the fracture together, but general anaesthetic is apparently risky with broken ribs, so the anle is healing naturally

    I hope it heals well. I really do need working ankles
    Ouch! What happened, you got hit by a vehicle?
    Yes, while crossing a road at work

    I've been told that I was thrown about ten foot in the air
    Oh shi!t, sorry to hear that, get well soon!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    edited August 16
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just what was said in the Beast ?

    I'll never forget how a longtime friend of mine—a Trump-supporting member of the Republican National Committee!!—called me up after seeing @realDonaldTrump's beaten-dog-like demeanor and posture at Helsinki.

    My friend asked, "Do you think Putin really has something on Trump?"

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1956751251787415783

    Putin was a KGB agent. He’ll be saying nothing and touching nothing in a known enemy car.

    No chance the US spooks didn’t have that car totally wired for audio and video.
    That was not Putin in that car.
    Is anybody explaining quite why Vladimir Putin would send an impersonator to meet Donald Trump in Alaska?
    Er, because he's terrified of dying? Of being killed? And every time he ventures from his underground leadlined bunker this possibility becomes horribly real?

    Recall he has had hundreds of powerful rivals hurled out of windows, or blown out of the sky, and he is also attacking a large sovereign nation with quite menacing intel and military capaiblities

    Millions of people want him dead, and lots of them have money and bombs and some of them might have smuggled agents into his inner circle

    One of the few consolations of this evil and sorry business is that Putin's final decade/s are being spent, by him, in miserable paranoia. Good
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,324
    edited August 16
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just what was said in the Beast ?

    I'll never forget how a longtime friend of mine—a Trump-supporting member of the Republican National Committee!!—called me up after seeing @realDonaldTrump's beaten-dog-like demeanor and posture at Helsinki.

    My friend asked, "Do you think Putin really has something on Trump?"

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1956751251787415783

    Putin was a KGB agent. He’ll be saying nothing and touching nothing in a known enemy car.

    No chance the US spooks didn’t have that car totally wired for audio and video.
    That was not Putin in that car.
    Is anybody explaining quite why Vladimir Putin would send an impersonator to meet Donald Trump in Alaska?
    He trusts no one and nothing.

    He can't even meet post-soviet ministers without having a fifty foot table between them.

    No way he gets in to the Beast US car with not a single russian protection officer or whatever.

    If you had spent that last fifty years of your life thinking someone might kill me this evening would you fly to Alaska for lunch with the USA?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Keir has spoken.

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1956692156099244329

    To give him credit where it’s due, this is one issue on which he can’t really be faulted. Thankfully UK support for Ukraine is almost universal and across party lines.

    Thankfully Boris Johnson beat Jeremy Corbyn in 2019, I suspect the old commie’s attitude to this conflict would have been quite different.

    Except the party leading the polls.
    And this is the curious thing.

    Its perfectly possible to have a pro-western, strong defence patriotic, reform as an alt-right party.

    In fact it would likely have greater potential support than the anti-western putinism that Farage dabbles in.

    The putinism of the Christian ethno-nationalists is even more baffling as it is Putin's strategy to encourage more migration to the western world.
    It's because they see Russia as a bastion of traditional values. It's white, Christian, antiwoke. In their mental word-cloud "muscular" and "unpolluted" would be prominent.
    You said Sir Keir was “muscular” as well! Are these tough guys smothered in baby oil when you think of them?
    Hang on, Boris surely. And it was that Philip Tompkins not me.
    @kinabalu May 18

    "No messing about there. Polls will confirm (or not) but a word that probably leaps to many people's minds when thinking about Keir Starmer is "muscular". He'd take that, I reckon, if it turns out to be the case."

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5210589/#Comment_5210589
    Hey

    PB's favourite postie!

    @BlancheLivermore how are you? How is the recovery?
    Not too bad, thanks

    I'm in a lot less pain; I can now cough and laugh without morphine

    Though this means that I sometimes roll over in my sleep, then wake up with my weight on my broken ribs. Luckily I do have some morphine left for those mornings..

    My ankle is going to take a few more weeks to set, and I have to keep weight off it completely. They would have operated on it and screwed the fracture together, but general anaesthetic is apparently risky with broken ribs, so the anle is healing naturally

    I hope it heals well. I really do need working ankles
    Ouch! What happened, you got hit by a vehicle?
    Yes, while crossing a road at work

    I've been told that I was thrown about ten foot in the air
    I was consoled by your earlier reply and then I read THIS

    Bloody hell. I guess we and you are lucky you are alive. Take it easy on the crutches
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,609

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    And 13 years later computers were beating GMs at chess. The Rubik cube now gets solved in a second or two by robots.

    Cool program, bookmarked to watch later.
    Which doesn't show that they can think. (John Searle's 'The Chinese Room'.) Though I guess the jury must be out about this in relation to to modern forms of AI and its future - is it possible that a stage is reached where it is doing what can only be done by an actually thinking being.
    There's no obvious pathway to actual machine thinking. Current AIs are complex creations that do a very simple task, they string words together to form something related to a question they've been asked. They don't understand those words, they just pattern match the data they've been trained on.

    This is why LLMs like ChartGPT, etc, will confidently produce plausible answers that are complete bollocks. There's no thinking go on, the AI is not intelligent and cannot understand what it is telling you. It just knows the answer it gives you resembles what it knows an answer to that question should look like.

    It's cargo cult intelligence; it creates a facsimile of something it does not and cannot understand and hopes it works like the original.

    That's not to say LLMs are useless, but they don't think and never will.
    The Symbol Grounding problem

    https://bsky.app/profile/mkirschenbaum.bsky.social/post/3lw7qhpefvk2l
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,427

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    And 13 years later computers were beating GMs at chess. The Rubik cube now gets solved in a second or two by robots.

    Cool program, bookmarked to watch later.
    Which doesn't show that they can think. (John Searle's 'The Chinese Room'.) Though I guess the jury must be out about this in relation to to modern forms of AI and its future - is it possible that a stage is reached where it is doing what can only be done by an actually thinking being.
    There's no obvious pathway to actual machine thinking. Current AIs are complex creations that do a very simple task, they string words together to form something related to a question they've been asked. They don't understand those words, they just pattern match the data they've been trained on.

    This is why LLMs like ChartGPT, etc, will confidently produce plausible answers that are complete bollocks. There's no thinking go on, the AI is not intelligent and cannot understand what it is telling you. It just knows the answer it gives you resembles what it knows an answer to that question should look like.

    It's cargo cult intelligence; it creates a facsimile of something it does not and cannot understand and hopes it works like the original.

    That's not to say LLMs are useless, but they don't think and never will.
    Indeed, today I was bouncing ideas about the Battle River-Crowfoot by-election in Canada and ChatGPT-5 suggested that 214 was more than the entire membership of the House of Commons (even the Ottawa one is 343)
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,445

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    And 13 years later computers were beating GMs at chess. The Rubik cube now gets solved in a second or two by robots.

    Cool program, bookmarked to watch later.
    Which doesn't show that they can think. (John Searle's 'The Chinese Room'.) Though I guess the jury must be out about this in relation to to modern forms of AI and its future - is it possible that a stage is reached where it is doing what can only be done by an actually thinking being.
    There's no obvious pathway to actual machine thinking. Current AIs are complex creations that do a very simple task, they string words together to form something related to a question they've been asked. They don't understand those words, they just pattern match the data they've been trained on.

    This is why LLMs like ChartGPT, etc, will confidently produce plausible answers that are complete bollocks. There's no thinking go on, the AI is not intelligent and cannot understand what it is telling you. It just knows the answer it gives you resembles what it knows an answer to that question should look like.

    It's cargo cult intelligence; it creates a facsimile of something it does not and cannot understand and hopes it works like the original.

    That's not to say LLMs are useless, but they don't think and never will.
    I've been having a useful conversation with ChatGPT about how to make the perfect Negroni (and while it might be easy, even if you assume Campari, there's a lot of different gins and vermouths out there). It's quite good at it, but I assume it's just assembling lots of information that's available on the Internet, and I can't be arsed.
    That's the bit (assembling existing information) that's really uncomfortable, but also useful, about whatever-it-is that computers are doing.

    There's a huge amount of human thought that is already out there and recorded, but hasn't really been assimilated, so it can't easily be used. So in the sciences, it takes longer and longer learning what is already known before you get to the stuff that is truly unkown. And even then, you get the galling realisation that your really neat idea was basically had by some German bloke in about 1958. In the past, that might have taken a couple of days chasing back through references in the library. I can see LLMs doing that chasing in seconds.

    Good news: our silicon pals can squeeze a lot of unexpected juice out of the existing sum of human thought.

    Bad news: the value of new human thoughts will go down, and being paid to have ideas has been a very agreeable lifestyle if you can get away with it.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,115

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: Putin demands Ukraine surrender Donetsk in exchange for peace


    Telegraph


    If that is correct, and Putin is "sincere", then the Ukes should take that. It's a dismal outcome, but continuing this horrific war is even worse

    I'd be slightly surprised in this is a genuine offer. Putin will have sacrificed 100,000s of his young men for a fairly impoverished coalmining bit of East Ukraine. Will his nationalist supporters buy that?

    So Russia cannot gain it so it wants to be given it.

    Continuing the war is far, far better as it steadily ruins the Russian economy, destroys the Russian military and kills hundred of thousands more Russians.

    The underlying fact that Europeans leaders need to remember is:

    THE MORE DEAD RUSSIANS THE BETTER.
    Er, it also means thousands of dead Ukrainians. Maybe tens of thousands

    End the war. Do a Korea
    By 'do a Korea' do you mean that £50k US troops will be stationed in Ukraine with nuclear weapons ?

    Nor did South Korea give up any land.

    You really do have a substandard IQ.

    Nor do you give a toss about the Ukrainians, if you did you would support them.

    Instead you just want to give Russia whatever it wants because you're bored and lack commitment.
    Sweet Jesus, are we back to "stop it, you're lowering PB morale"?

    I've been to Ukraine, during this war. Twice. You have not.

    I've been to Lviv, Chernivtsi, Kyiv, Odesa, all over. I've been in trains and buses and taxis - and bomb shelters. I've been on an Odesan boulevard as a chunk of drone hit the road creating the loudest, most terrifying noise I've ever heard. I've watched from a hotel balcony as Putin tried to bomb my very hotel, at night. The next night a missile took out a building about 300 yards away, as I slept

    I've met dozens of Ukrainians of all ages, I've seen the flags of the dead in Maidan square, I've seen all the young men in crutches, missing limbs, in wheelchairs. I've had drinks with Ukrainians and listened to them casually say "oh yes, my three best friends from college are already dead, I'm going back to the front tomorrow, I'm not expecting to survive"

    And so on, and so forth

    I don't want any more of them to die. I like Ukrainians. I also like Russians (even as I despise their regime). I don't want them to die, either. I like humans in general, and I have a special fondness for young humans, who are the future, I don't want them to die

    If the war can be stopped in a way that ends the killing while securing most of Ukraine (ex Donetsk) they should try and do that deal. We will then need to shore up Ukraine's defences, indeed all our defences, so Putin can never try this again because he would meet with certain defeat

    So, with all due respect, go jump in a toxic lake
    Well said.

    Except I would have said 'Go and jump in a toxic lake.'
    How much land should Russia give up for peace ?
    How much current IRA activity should the UK ignore for peace? How many past IRA murderers should the UK Government brush under the carpet for piece? Peace deals aren't satisfactory - by their nature they involve compromise with the enemy, often unjust compromise.
    So how much land should Russia give up for peace ?

    And it isn't peace if its just the next step for further war.
    Ukraine isn't holding any Russian land (as I understand it), so Russia doesn't have to give up any land.
    Russia should give up land as part of their reparations for the war. :)
    Russia has been appalling, despicable, and they 'should' have to do many things, but this is isn't about justice, it's about future people being alive, not dead.
    More Russian dead is good for Ukraine, Britain and all of Europe.

    The more Russians die now the fewer Britons might have to die in the next decade.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    DM_Andy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    And 13 years later computers were beating GMs at chess. The Rubik cube now gets solved in a second or two by robots.

    Cool program, bookmarked to watch later.
    Which doesn't show that they can think. (John Searle's 'The Chinese Room'.) Though I guess the jury must be out about this in relation to to modern forms of AI and its future - is it possible that a stage is reached where it is doing what can only be done by an actually thinking being.
    There's no obvious pathway to actual machine thinking. Current AIs are complex creations that do a very simple task, they string words together to form something related to a question they've been asked. They don't understand those words, they just pattern match the data they've been trained on.

    This is why LLMs like ChartGPT, etc, will confidently produce plausible answers that are complete bollocks. There's no thinking go on, the AI is not intelligent and cannot understand what it is telling you. It just knows the answer it gives you resembles what it knows an answer to that question should look like.

    It's cargo cult intelligence; it creates a facsimile of something it does not and cannot understand and hopes it works like the original.

    That's not to say LLMs are useless, but they don't think and never will.
    Indeed, today I was bouncing ideas about the Battle River-Crowfoot by-election in Canada and ChatGPT-5 suggested that 214 was more than the entire membership of the House of Commons (even the Ottawa one is 343)
    Jeez. If I was allowed to talk about this..... the things I could tell you

    But I can't
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,838

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just what was said in the Beast ?

    I'll never forget how a longtime friend of mine—a Trump-supporting member of the Republican National Committee!!—called me up after seeing @realDonaldTrump's beaten-dog-like demeanor and posture at Helsinki.

    My friend asked, "Do you think Putin really has something on Trump?"

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1956751251787415783

    Putin was a KGB agent. He’ll be saying nothing and touching nothing in a known enemy car.

    No chance the US spooks didn’t have that car totally wired for audio and video.
    That was not Putin in that car.
    Is anybody explaining quite why Vladimir Putin would send an impersonator to meet Donald Trump in Alaska?
    He trusts no one and nothing.

    He can't even meet post-soviet ministers without having a fifty foot table between them.

    No way he gets in to the Beast US car with not a single russian protection officer or whatever.

    If you had spent that last fifty years of your life thinking someone might kill me this evening would you fly to Alaska for lunch with the USA?
    Summit on equal terms, global stage, with a US president I can wrap round my finger? Wouldn't miss it for the world.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: Putin demands Ukraine surrender Donetsk in exchange for peace


    Telegraph


    If that is correct, and Putin is "sincere", then the Ukes should take that. It's a dismal outcome, but continuing this horrific war is even worse

    I'd be slightly surprised in this is a genuine offer. Putin will have sacrificed 100,000s of his young men for a fairly impoverished coalmining bit of East Ukraine. Will his nationalist supporters buy that?

    So Russia cannot gain it so it wants to be given it.

    Continuing the war is far, far better as it steadily ruins the Russian economy, destroys the Russian military and kills hundred of thousands more Russians.

    The underlying fact that Europeans leaders need to remember is:

    THE MORE DEAD RUSSIANS THE BETTER.
    Er, it also means thousands of dead Ukrainians. Maybe tens of thousands

    End the war. Do a Korea
    By 'do a Korea' do you mean that £50k US troops will be stationed in Ukraine with nuclear weapons ?

    Nor did South Korea give up any land.

    You really do have a substandard IQ.

    Nor do you give a toss about the Ukrainians, if you did you would support them.

    Instead you just want to give Russia whatever it wants because you're bored and lack commitment.
    Sweet Jesus, are we back to "stop it, you're lowering PB morale"?

    I've been to Ukraine, during this war. Twice. You have not.

    I've been to Lviv, Chernivtsi, Kyiv, Odesa, all over. I've been in trains and buses and taxis - and bomb shelters. I've been on an Odesan boulevard as a chunk of drone hit the road creating the loudest, most terrifying noise I've ever heard. I've watched from a hotel balcony as Putin tried to bomb my very hotel, at night. The next night a missile took out a building about 300 yards away, as I slept

    I've met dozens of Ukrainians of all ages, I've seen the flags of the dead in Maidan square, I've seen all the young men in crutches, missing limbs, in wheelchairs. I've had drinks with Ukrainians and listened to them casually say "oh yes, my three best friends from college are already dead, I'm going back to the front tomorrow, I'm not expecting to survive"

    And so on, and so forth

    I don't want any more of them to die. I like Ukrainians. I also like Russians (even as I despise their regime). I don't want them to die, either. I like humans in general, and I have a special fondness for young humans, who are the future, I don't want them to die

    If the war can be stopped in a way that ends the killing while securing most of Ukraine (ex Donetsk) they should try and do that deal. We will then need to shore up Ukraine's defences, indeed all our defences, so Putin can never try this again because he would meet with certain defeat

    So, with all due respect, go jump in a toxic lake
    Well said.

    Except I would have said 'Go and jump in a toxic lake.'
    How much land should Russia give up for peace ?
    How much current IRA activity should the UK ignore for peace? How many past IRA murderers should the UK Government brush under the carpet for piece? Peace deals aren't satisfactory - by their nature they involve compromise with the enemy, often unjust compromise.
    So how much land should Russia give up for peace ?

    And it isn't peace if its just the next step for further war.
    Ukraine isn't holding any Russian land (as I understand it), so Russia doesn't have to give up any land.
    Russia should give up land as part of their reparations for the war. :)
    Russia has been appalling, despicable, and they 'should' have to do many things, but this is isn't about justice, it's about future people being alive, not dead.
    More Russian dead is good for Ukraine, Britain and all of Europe.

    The more Russians die now the fewer Britons might have to die in the next decade.
    This discourse is repulsive

    The average Russian is not to blame for Putin

    You exult in their innumerable deaths like you are a chicken farmer counting profitable carcasses. Ugh
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,281
    Ukraine, at least, recognises the farrago of the last 24 hours is really not in the slightest in their interests.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/aug/16/putin-trump-summit-alaska-us-europe-ukraine-security-guarantees-zelenskyy-latest-news-updates#top-of-blog
    Following Donald Trump’s meeting with Vladimir Putin on Friday, Ukrainian officials are voicing concern over the US president’s apparent shift in tone after Putin demanded full control of Donetsk and Luhansk as a condition for ending the war.

    On Truth Social, Trump said he wanted to “go directly to a peace agreement, which would end the war and not a mere ceasefire agreement, which often times do not hold up.”

    Speaking to the Financial Times about Putin’s demands, a senior Ukrainian official said: “This is a stab in the back.”

    Another senior Ukrainian official said: “He just wants a quick deal.”

    Meanwhile, Oleksandr Merezhko, chair of the Ukrainian parliament’s foreign affairs committee, told the outlet that the outcome of the summit was “awful.”

    “It looks like Trump has aligned with Putin and they both might be starting to force us to accept a peace treaty, which means in reality capitulation of Ukraine,” he said, adding: “The whole idea of the summit, as we were explained by Trump and Rubio, was to present Putin with a demand for an immediate ceasefire. And if he rejects this proposal there would be severe consequences for him.”
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,200

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Reform are to falter by the next election, then it will be things like this, a bit like the anti Brit cranks which hamstrung Labour in the 1980s.

    Farage adviser said UK would be better off if it had not fought Nazi Germany

    Exclusive: Jack Anderton says UK may ‘regain’ former colonies in future and suggests end to support for Ukraine


    An adviser used by Nigel Farage and others in Reform UK to boost their social media popularity has suggested that Britain would be better off had it stayed neutral in the second world war instead of fighting Nazi Germany.

    Jack Anderton, who ran Farage’s hugely successful TikTok account before helping Luke Campbell become the Reform mayor of Hull and East Yorkshire, also said the UK should not support Ukraine in its fight against Russian aggression.

    In a post on his personal blog about Britain’s international standing, Anderton said that in a future world of “meritocracy”, the UK could “regain” former colonies such as Australia, Canada and South Africa.

    He added that the UK should copy the policy of mass incarceration carried out by El Salvador’s president, Nayib Bukele, widely condemned as an abuse of human rights.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/16/nigel-farage-adviser-uk-would-be-better-off-if-it-had-not-fought-nazi-germany

    I don't think any of these anti-Reform exposes will work.
    I'd go with "necessary but not sufficient".

    IMO Jack Anderton is best described as one of Nigel's Numpties. He is about 24, and a graduate of KCL.

    He thinks that us supporting Ukraine has no implications for our own defence.

    If you check his website he goes on about "rising sex crime" illustrated with pictures of muslims and asylum seekers. He does not seem to have copped that about 90% of sex crime is within families and friends networks, and not down to 'ethnic' or 'stranger' danger.

    He links what he says are 500% increases in sex crime (using reported not British Crime Survey data afaics at a quick check) since 2013 with "this region hosts most asylum seekers". Therefore guess what the cause is?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xHbjksys_M
    Sex crimes may be mostly within family and friend networks, but that would not account for 'rising' levels above the rate of population increase would it?

    In fact, sex crimes would usually take place within family and friend networks because of means and opportunity - if one has caring responsibilities and is trusted with those who are one's prey, that enables the crime. It also means that discovery may be delayed. With the subject that may not be discussed, another type of means and another type of delayed justice manifested themselves. So it's unsurprising that a huge quantity of such crimes took place. It was the family setting on an accelerated, metastisising scale.
    To give a serious answer.

    Political point. Jack is after a big number to be able to point to people he wants to blame, just like my MP Lee Anderson when he talks about the subject.

    Statistical point: IMO his stats do not stand up, and it's way beyond a correlation vs causation error. Using "reported" filters out such things as reporting rate, but also people who do not bother to report because they do not think they will be taken serious, or will be put through a gauntlet of a process, when the report to conviction rate is in low single figures. That last is testified to by Rape Crisis Centres etc.

    The rape reports by the British Crime Survey (Which is a demographic sample of many thousands) show no such dramatic rise over 10 years (bottom line on Figure 2) :

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/sexualoffencesinenglandandwalesoverview/march2022

    but the "Record by Police Crime Rates" do show a dramatic rise:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/283100/recorded-rape-offences-in-england-and-wales/

    Jack takes the recorded number, looks for an increase in "asylum seekers" in some areas, and says "Abracadabra". IMO that's worse than amateurish, and is promoting an unlikely cause over a likely cause because it fits what he wants to say, given the Crime Survey indicates no major overall rise. The likely cause noted eg by statista is an increase in reporting rates - which based on inspection by eye of the linked pages would be from perhaps 2-3% of rapes recorded to perhaps 8-9%, or somewhat less if there is a component of increased rape numbers (the BCS data stops in 2022).

    Metastasising families may be a fair point, but that depends on detailed data definitions. And without a good analysis of the impact we cannot say whether that would be 1% of the increase, or 90% of the increase. If the "500% increase" exists which it seems it does not, that's another assumption that it is causation not correlation.

    I'd say that with this whole area precise qualification of data used is critical, especially limitations, but that is not what we are getting.

    (1/2)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,200
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Reform are to falter by the next election, then it will be things like this, a bit like the anti Brit cranks which hamstrung Labour in the 1980s.

    Farage adviser said UK would be better off if it had not fought Nazi Germany

    Exclusive: Jack Anderton says UK may ‘regain’ former colonies in future and suggests end to support for Ukraine


    An adviser used by Nigel Farage and others in Reform UK to boost their social media popularity has suggested that Britain would be better off had it stayed neutral in the second world war instead of fighting Nazi Germany.

    Jack Anderton, who ran Farage’s hugely successful TikTok account before helping Luke Campbell become the Reform mayor of Hull and East Yorkshire, also said the UK should not support Ukraine in its fight against Russian aggression.

    In a post on his personal blog about Britain’s international standing, Anderton said that in a future world of “meritocracy”, the UK could “regain” former colonies such as Australia, Canada and South Africa.

    He added that the UK should copy the policy of mass incarceration carried out by El Salvador’s president, Nayib Bukele, widely condemned as an abuse of human rights.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/16/nigel-farage-adviser-uk-would-be-better-off-if-it-had-not-fought-nazi-germany

    I don't think any of these anti-Reform exposes will work.
    I'd go with "necessary but not sufficient".

    IMO Jack Anderton is best described as one of Nigel's Numpties. He is about 24, and a graduate of KCL.

    He thinks that us supporting Ukraine has no implications for our own defence.

    If you check his website he goes on about "rising sex crime" illustrated with pictures of muslims and asylum seekers. He does not seem to have copped that about 90% of sex crime is within families and friends networks, and not down to 'ethnic' or 'stranger' danger.

    He links what he says are 500% increases in sex crime (using reported not British Crime Survey data afaics at a quick check) since 2013 with "this region hosts most asylum seekers". Therefore guess what the cause is?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xHbjksys_M
    Sex crimes may be mostly within family and friend networks, but that would not account for 'rising' levels above the rate of population increase would it?

    In fact, sex crimes would usually take place within family and friend networks because of means and opportunity - if one has caring responsibilities and is trusted with those who are one's prey, that enables the crime. It also means that discovery may be delayed. With the subject that may not be discussed, another type of means and another type of delayed justice manifested themselves. So it's unsurprising that a huge quantity of such crimes took place. It was the family setting on an accelerated, metastisising scale.
    To give a serious answer.

    Political point. Jack is after a big number to be able to point to people he wants to blame, just like my MP Lee Anderson when he talks about the subject.

    Statistical point: IMO his stats do not stand up, and it's way beyond a correlation vs causation error. Using "reported" filters out such things as reporting rate, but also people who do not bother to report because they do not think they will be taken serious, or will be put through a gauntlet of a process, when the report to conviction rate is in low single figures. That last is testified to by Rape Crisis Centres etc.

    The rape reports by the British Crime Survey (Which is a demographic sample of many thousands) show no such dramatic rise over 10 years (bottom line on Figure 2) :

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/sexualoffencesinenglandandwalesoverview/march2022

    but the "Record by Police Crime Rates" do show a dramatic rise:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/283100/recorded-rape-offences-in-england-and-wales/

    Jack takes the recorded number, looks for an increase in "asylum seekers" in some areas, and says "Abracadabra". IMO that's worse than amateurish, and is promoting an unlikely cause over a likely cause because it fits what he wants to say, given the Crime Survey indicates no major overall rise. The likely cause noted eg by statista is an increase in reporting rates - which based on inspection by eye of the linked pages would be from perhaps 2-3% of rapes recorded to perhaps 8-9%, or somewhat less if there is a component of increased rape numbers (the BCS data stops in 2022).

    Metastasising families may be a fair point, but that depends on detailed data definitions. And without a good analysis of the impact we cannot say whether that would be 1% of the increase, or 90% of the increase. If the "500% increase" exists which it seems it does not, that's another assumption that it is causation not correlation.

    I'd say that with this whole area precise qualification of data used is critical, especially limitations, but that is not what we are getting.

    (1/2)
    The rest (2/2):

    On a more general point, I have had serious doubts about sex and violence crime statistics for about 20 years. For example there seemed to me to be serious holes in the way some feminist groups used stats and totals back in the day. For example in I think 2007-8 roughly in a report called the "Map of Gaps", one point I think I recall (without digging to look it up) was fudging the definitions around 'violence' between words and actions..

    Plus ignorance. Even now, something as simple such as that removing a condom and proceeding without telling your partner is a criminal offence is not well known amongst teenagers - there was a recent publicity on that:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-57618003

    What I'm disputing here is the validity of his claims based on his material, and that as a KCL politics graduate he should know better and have some competence in interpretation of statistics. But I think (you may disagree) that like Farage he is essentially a propagandist.

    On the "subject that may not be named", I thought that had been reallowed except for Max and Leon. I would be delighted to have some real stats around the % of rapes which were in the 'rape gangs'. I suspect (opinion, I do not have numbers) that it would be low enough to seriously deflate the Jenrick-Farage balloon that they would have to switch their marketing to "these stats are manipulated by ... parties unknown". But we don't have that, which imo leaves a gap for the current campaign.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,115

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    And 13 years later computers were beating GMs at chess. The Rubik cube now gets solved in a second or two by robots.

    Cool program, bookmarked to watch later.
    Which doesn't show that they can think. (John Searle's 'The Chinese Room'.) Though I guess the jury must be out about this in relation to to modern forms of AI and its future - is it possible that a stage is reached where it is doing what can only be done by an actually thinking being.
    There's no obvious pathway to actual machine thinking. Current AIs are complex creations that do a very simple task, they string words together to form something related to a question they've been asked. They don't understand those words, they just pattern match the data they've been trained on.

    This is why LLMs like ChartGPT, etc, will confidently produce plausible answers that are complete bollocks. There's no thinking go on, the AI is not intelligent and cannot understand what it is telling you. It just knows the answer it gives you resembles what it knows an answer to that question should look like.

    It's cargo cult intelligence; it creates a facsimile of something it does not and cannot understand and hopes it works like the original.

    That's not to say LLMs are useless, but they don't think and never will.
    I'm still waiting for AI to write the missing Flashman novels.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,409
    Leon said:

    DM_Andy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Off-topic, but quite enjoyed this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBHXx2SllA

    1982: Can COMPUTERS THINK? | The Computer Programme | Retro Technology | BBC Archive

    Chris Searle, Ian McNaught-Davis and Gill Neville present an edition of The Computer Programme that explores artificial intelligence in computers. Can computers be programmed to think out the answers to problems and come up with winning strategies in games?

    And 13 years later computers were beating GMs at chess. The Rubik cube now gets solved in a second or two by robots.

    Cool program, bookmarked to watch later.
    Which doesn't show that they can think. (John Searle's 'The Chinese Room'.) Though I guess the jury must be out about this in relation to to modern forms of AI and its future - is it possible that a stage is reached where it is doing what can only be done by an actually thinking being.
    There's no obvious pathway to actual machine thinking. Current AIs are complex creations that do a very simple task, they string words together to form something related to a question they've been asked. They don't understand those words, they just pattern match the data they've been trained on.

    This is why LLMs like ChartGPT, etc, will confidently produce plausible answers that are complete bollocks. There's no thinking go on, the AI is not intelligent and cannot understand what it is telling you. It just knows the answer it gives you resembles what it knows an answer to that question should look like.

    It's cargo cult intelligence; it creates a facsimile of something it does not and cannot understand and hopes it works like the original.

    That's not to say LLMs are useless, but they don't think and never will.
    Indeed, today I was bouncing ideas about the Battle River-Crowfoot by-election in Canada and ChatGPT-5 suggested that 214 was more than the entire membership of the House of Commons (even the Ottawa one is 343)
    Jeez. If I was allowed to talk about this..... the things I could tell you

    But I can't
    You writing an article about Battle River for the Moose Fanciers Digest?
    Who's gonna win?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,324
    Newsom seems to have taken the decision that the route to being Dem candidate 2028 is to be now seen front and centre to be fighting Trump 2.0 regime day and night and in their face.

    Many Dems have been been appalled how little fight there has been from Dem congress members.

    Will it work for Newsom?

    I'm pretty sure the candidate will be a governor and not a senator.

    So maybe?

    Might do a header at some point.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,609

    Good news: our silicon pals can squeeze a lot of unexpected juice out of the existing sum of human thought.

    Bad news: the value of new human thoughts will go down, and being paid to have ideas has been a very agreeable lifestyle if you can get away with it.

    Had a chat recently with a surgeon about using computers to study radiological data and how many anomalies they might spot that humans missed.

    Also the NHS is perhaps the single most valuable sources of training data since other countries tend not to centralise it in the same way.

    Has some minister already signed away the rights to Palantir for a fraction of its true value..?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,609

    Newsom seems to have taken the decision that the route to being Dem candidate 2028 is to be now seen front and centre to be fighting Trump 2.0 regime day and night and in their face.

    Many Dems have been been appalled how little fight there has been from Dem congress members.

    Will it work for Newsom?

    I'm pretty sure the candidate will be a governor and not a senator.

    So maybe?

    Might do a header at some point.

    We don't know yet just how much he is getting under DementiaDon's skin, but FOX NEWS ARE NOT IMPRESSED!

    https://bsky.app/profile/stevepeers.bsky.social/post/3lwk2w2kxks2x
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,778
    OMG the media are just useless .

    Portraying Trumps change on a ceasefire down to him and not what Putin wanted .
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,427
    Scott_xP said:

    Good news: our silicon pals can squeeze a lot of unexpected juice out of the existing sum of human thought.

    Bad news: the value of new human thoughts will go down, and being paid to have ideas has been a very agreeable lifestyle if you can get away with it.

    Had a chat recently with a surgeon about using computers to study radiological data and how many anomalies they might spot that humans missed.

    Also the NHS is perhaps the single most valuable sources of training data since other countries tend not to centralise it in the same way.

    Has some minister already signed away the rights to Palantir for a fraction of its true value..?
    I don't know the details but OneLondon is already working with Palantir, Google and Amazon on big data and machine learning. https://www.onelondon.online/
  • I've been filling a lot of my time as an invalid playing really old computer games

    I found online emulators for MSDOS, Amiga and Spectrum games. I finally managed to complete War In Middle Earth, a LOTR game I first played nearly forty years ago

    On the Spectrum emulator, I found @NickPalmer 's 1985 Battle of Britain game "Their Finest Hour"

    There's also a "Yes, Prime Minister" game on the same page (1987)

    https://zxspectrum.xyz/1982-1987.html#section
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,609
    @BrookeSingman

    EXCLUSIVE: I obtained @FLOTUS Melania Trump’s “peace letter” to Russian President Putin. She says “it is time.”

    https://x.com/BrookeSingman/status/1956811054605914273
  • I've been filling a lot of my time as an invalid playing really old computer games

    I found online emulators for MSDOS, Amiga and Spectrum games. I finally managed to complete War In Middle Earth, a LOTR game I first played nearly forty years ago

    On the Spectrum emulator, I found @NickPalmer 's 1985 Battle of Britain game "Their Finest Hour"

    There's also a "Yes, Prime Minister" game on the same page (1987)

    https://zxspectrum.xyz/1982-1987.html#section

    Retro gaming is one of the best ways to pass time. I probably play more games on my 1990s Amiga than on a modern PC.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,609
    @SkyNews

    How have people in Russia reacted to Trump and Putin's summit?

    Sky's Moscow correspondent
    @IvorBennett
    says officials and state media saw it as a "clear victory for Vladimir Putin"

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1956827890324037821
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,778
    Scott_xP said:

    @BrookeSingman

    EXCLUSIVE: I obtained @FLOTUS Melania Trump’s “peace letter” to Russian President Putin. She says “it is time.”

    https://x.com/BrookeSingman/status/1956811054605914273

    She needed to throw in some prime real estate to have a chance !
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,999
    Scott_xP said:

    @BrookeSingman

    EXCLUSIVE: I obtained @FLOTUS Melania Trump’s “peace letter” to Russian President Putin. She says “it is time.”

    https://x.com/BrookeSingman/status/1956811054605914273

    Surely Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich would be more appropriate. .

    Trump clearly isn't on first-name terms with VVP or he would refer to him as Volodya.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,562
    edited August 16
    Some of you may be aware of my ongoing rant that the privatisation program of 1979-2010s(?) led to an inability of Britain to act as a state and ended up with providing profits for foreign nationals and a servile UK workforce. One book I have recommended to you is "Late Soviet Britain" by Dr Abby Innes. I now find another on a similar theme: "Failed State: Why Nothing Works and How We Fix It" (2025), by Sam Freedman. I haven't read it and so cannot recommend it, but I look forward to reading it.

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/failed-state/sam-freedman/9781035026609
    https://www.waterstones.com/book/failed-state/sam-freedman/9781035026593
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,609
    The Russians are apparently particularly taken with the picture of US soldiers kneeling at the steps of Putin's plane

    For some reason...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,231
    Okay well I got that one wrong.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,999
    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING: Putin demands Ukraine surrender Donetsk in exchange for peace


    Telegraph


    If that is correct, and Putin is "sincere", then the Ukes should take that. It's a dismal outcome, but continuing this horrific war is even worse

    I'd be slightly surprised in this is a genuine offer. Putin will have sacrificed 100,000s of his young men for a fairly impoverished coalmining bit of East Ukraine. Will his nationalist supporters buy that?

    So Russia cannot gain it so it wants to be given it.

    Continuing the war is far, far better as it steadily ruins the Russian economy, destroys the Russian military and kills hundred of thousands more Russians.

    The underlying fact that Europeans leaders need to remember is:

    THE MORE DEAD RUSSIANS THE BETTER.
    Er, it also means thousands of dead Ukrainians. Maybe tens of thousands

    End the war. Do a Korea
    By 'do a Korea' do you mean that £50k US troops will be stationed in Ukraine with nuclear weapons ?

    Nor did South Korea give up any land.

    You really do have a substandard IQ.

    Nor do you give a toss about the Ukrainians, if you did you would support them.

    Instead you just want to give Russia whatever it wants because you're bored and lack commitment.
    Sweet Jesus, are we back to "stop it, you're lowering PB morale"?

    I've been to Ukraine, during this war. Twice. You have not.

    I've been to Lviv, Chernivtsi, Kyiv, Odesa, all over. I've been in trains and buses and taxis - and bomb shelters. I've been on an Odesan boulevard as a chunk of drone hit the road creating the loudest, most terrifying noise I've ever heard. I've watched from a hotel balcony as Putin tried to bomb my very hotel, at night. The next night a missile took out a building about 300 yards away, as I slept

    I've met dozens of Ukrainians of all ages, I've seen the flags of the dead in Maidan square, I've seen all the young men in crutches, missing limbs, in wheelchairs. I've had drinks with Ukrainians and listened to them casually say "oh yes, my three best friends from college are already dead, I'm going back to the front tomorrow, I'm not expecting to survive"

    And so on, and so forth

    I don't want any more of them to die. I like Ukrainians. I also like Russians (even as I despise their regime). I don't want them to die, either. I like humans in general, and I have a special fondness for young humans, who are the future, I don't want them to die

    If the war can be stopped in a way that ends the killing while securing most of Ukraine (ex Donetsk) they should try and do that deal. We will then need to shore up Ukraine's defences, indeed all our defences, so Putin can never try this again because he would meet with certain defeat

    So, with all due respect, go jump in a toxic lake
    Well said.

    Except I would have said 'Go and jump in a toxic lake.'
    How much land should Russia give up for peace ?
    How much current IRA activity should the UK ignore for peace? How many past IRA murderers should the UK Government brush under the carpet for piece? Peace deals aren't satisfactory - by their nature they involve compromise with the enemy, often unjust compromise.
    So how much land should Russia give up for peace ?

    And it isn't peace if its just the next step for further war.
    Ukraine isn't holding any Russian land (as I understand it), so Russia doesn't have to give up any land.
    Russia should give up land as part of their reparations for the war. :)
    Russia has been appalling, despicable, and they 'should' have to do many things, but this is isn't about justice, it's about future people being alive, not dead.
    More Russian dead is good for Ukraine, Britain and all of Europe.

    The more Russians die now the fewer Britons might have to die in the next decade.
    This discourse is repulsive

    The average Russian is not to blame for Putin

    You exult in their innumerable deaths like you are a chicken farmer counting profitable carcasses. Ugh
    It is average Russians carrying out the murder, rape and torture. They could frag their officers, mutiny, surrender, lay down their arms and March into soft captivity.

    They don't.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,951
    edited August 16

    I've been filling a lot of my time as an invalid playing really old computer games

    I found online emulators for MSDOS, Amiga and Spectrum games. I finally managed to complete War In Middle Earth, a LOTR game I first played nearly forty years ago

    On the Spectrum emulator, I found @NickPalmer 's 1985 Battle of Britain game "Their Finest Hour"

    There's also a "Yes, Prime Minister" game on the same page (1987)

    https://zxspectrum.xyz/1982-1987.html#section

    I've been intending to find a ZX Spectrum emulator for ages so I can play N.O.M.A.D. which was my favourite game at the time. Thanks for this.
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