It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
.............and the answer is 70.....or dice have no memory? Is it a trick question?
I wouldn't expect 70. I'd expect something close to 70.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
Why is 60 a sensible threshold here? It has surely been chosen for electoral rather than social or financial reasons.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
60+ is not just pensioners, will include working people.
A venn diagram of 60+ year olds who get to work for 10am and complain about younger colleagues WFH and "fare dodgers" would be hilarious. I think PBs drink driving Jenrick fanboy is a fare dodging freedom pass holder, but at least it keeps him off the roads.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
That same article mentions that TfL has a £23m shortfall. If the pass is costing £84m removing it solves the shortfall problem at a stroke...
Also this is a pass for those between 60 and 67. It doesn't offer the completely free travel you get as a pensioner it just allows those not yet in retirement to travel more cheaply than people in their 30/40/50s.
Tfl is surprisingly producing surplus the last two years, there isn't currently a funding gap. The £23m is the cost of extra employer NI.
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
.............and the answer is 70.....or dice have no memory? Is it a trick question?
I wouldn't expect 70. I'd expect something close to 70.
Depends how you look at it, when you roll 6, you have 2 3s. So could be around 210 as well.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
Why is 60 a sensible threshold here? It has surely been chosen for electoral rather than social or financial reasons.
It’s not but its attached to the historic pension retirement age for women
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
It still blows my mind how many supposedly intelligent people think I am wrong when I tell them you get more pizza with one 18 inch pizza than with two 12 inch pizzas.
Do you tell them to do the calculation and then laugh when they ask what's the calculation ?
Too many 'educated' people seem to be proud of their lack of basic mathematical skills.
I am no good at hard maths but can navigate everyday numerical reality in my head, (and keep noticing that a lot of younger people can't) but I would not be able to tell you from my head at what proportion of diameter increase the area of a pizza doubles.
Related to this is that people are routinely amazed that others don't know at all what they know a lot about. (Like most people don't know that Sir K is the son of a toolmaker; couldn't name the four gospels; don't know whether Alfred the Great was before or after Henry III).
You don't need to remember any of the formulae about the areas of circles; the truth of TSE's proposition arises simply from increasing both the height and the width of the pizza by 50%, which is multiplying by 1.5 (from 12 inch to 18 inch), hence the area increases by 1.5x1.5 = 2.25, which is more than double.
Simple things can fool people who don't think clearly; for example, during my recent absence our Sunil posted a photo of central London, and one of the responses said "it looks like you are significantly ABOVE the top of the Shard, which is impossible in a London building". Yet in the photo the top of the Shard was very clearly above the horizon; it ought to have taken just a moment's thought to realise that the photographer is always LOWER than any object that is above a level horizon in a photo.
Hang on - that level horizon business only applies if the basic ground level is uniform. If you've got a ring of hills then that assumption is not valid. And you've got the Hampstead Heath and Kenwood uplands, etc., to the north, and the southern heights around Dulwich and Sydenham and Shooter's Hill.
Though that doesn't negate your argument; indeed it strengthens it. London does have the feature that nothing visible can be lower than Thames water level ...
It does strenghten it, as you say, but was also what I meant by level horizon. Yes, you're right that where there's a line of hills, the actual horizon is slightly lower than the bottom of the sky in a photo, but then we're not talking about the Alps or Himalayas here - the effect the hillocks of south London or the north downs make, viewed from a distance, is pretty marginal.
Bottom line is that someone of average IQ or higher ought immediately to have seen that Sunil's photo had been taken from somewhere lower than (maybe about three quarters as high as) the shard, and therefore conclude immediately that he was up one of the other tall buildings in the City (the area being off limits to paragliding, microlights and the like)
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
It’s definitely not one in six journeys being fraudulent - I watch it going on at various lines and you can see it but it’s not 16% of travellers
The level of evasion is enormously variable both from station to station and the time of day. At East Ham, it is endemic - it is usually younger men (but not always). The trick is three go through and only two pay as the third moves through between them. When the revenue inspection team is at the station, they reap a rich harvest of fare evaders but while they are dealing with those they catch, others are getting through.
At outer suburban stations, the level of evasion is much lower but TfL know all this and they know where the hotspots are. The biggest problem is the wide gates for people with luggage or pushchairs. You see the evaders waiting for someone to go through and they tailgate them - the narrower gates are harder to get through. If it were me, I'd have only one wide gate at East Ham and a permanent revenue inspection presence on that gate but TfL take a different view and accept a level of evasion based on the law of diminishing returns.
I went to a debate in 2006 (?) re ID cards - the "Pro" being Nick Palmer who was very good against the Tories & Lib Dems - at the end of the debate the motion to introduce ID cards was carried. <
Thanks vino. I don't dismiss all fears about misuse of ID cards, but people who want to misuse personal information have plenty of ways to do it already. Not having a simple way of proving who you are is just a nuisance and gives an illusory sense of security.
The massive violation of GDPR and all the rules about data security should be a red flag. If I created a system with such features, I would be legally liable. Serious fines, per offence.
Strangely, every other country in Europe manages to have ID cards without committing crimes in the process.
That’s because no other country between the UK and India has as much unnecessary bureaucracy, or people insisting on it.
It's more that you have a raft of people (some on this chat) who simply can't conceive of the government doing a bad thing.
Post Office and Donald Trump would suggest otherwise.
I mean, do they really want a system where someone working in a council has unfettered access to your personal finances, medical data etc?
I know this is very, very hard to imagine, but imagine a Reform run council. Imagine that they try mining such data for dirt on people with sun tans.
Is your reaction YEEEEEEAY!!!! AWSOMEST! THING! EVER! ?
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
That same article mentions that TfL has a £23m shortfall. If the pass is costing £84m removing it solves the shortfall problem at a stroke...
Also this is a pass for those between 60 and 67. It doesn't offer the completely free travel you get as a pensioner it just allows those not yet in retirement to travel more cheaply than people in their 30/40/50s.
It does say "over 60s" and "free travel" in the URL.
So someone's being creative, or at best seriously careless, with the headlining. I can't read the paywalled text to judge.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
Many don't partake of free bus passes as they prefer to go places in style.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
Only nostalgia for the very old- Greater London was set up sixty years ago. Some of it is "Surrey/Kent/Essex, actually", it's part of some people's identity that they (or their family) moved out of London. Some of it is the natural human instinct to want an area they can control; the right win comfortably in Havering but don't have a chance in London as a whole.
As for the travel thing, Hexit campaigners usually promise that will be kept. Somehow.
Incidentally, Andrew Rosindell's latest local campaign is to oppose the formation of a massive borough of East London, taking in all of historic Essex in Greater London, with a massive permanent Labour majority bullying plucky little Romford. That's nonsense, isn't it?
Heard Farage once banging on him recalling how everyone in his village being happier when it was in Kent. Despite the fact he was born in 1964. So has no memory of it. You'd have to be 65+. And about 80 to have any practical civic memory.
It's partly upbringing though. I was born in Ilford in 1965 when it was still Essex (for another 2 months). My father's family lived in Stratford and my mother's in Leyton, which was already London, but we all regarded ourselves as Essex people. Essex County Cricket Club had it's HQ and county ground in Leyton at that time.
When I lived in New Malden 30 years ago I still put "Surrey" on my address, but I doubt many people do now.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
Why is 60 a sensible threshold here? It has surely been chosen for electoral rather than social or financial reasons.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
60+ is not just pensioners, will include working people.
A venn diagram of 60+ year olds who get to work for 10am and complain about younger colleagues WFH and "fare dodgers" would be hilarious. I think PBs drink driving Jenrick fanboy is a fare dodging freedom pass holder, but at least it keeps him off the roads.
I'll be honest - I worked on past 60 (post pandemic) but I still had to be in the office at 9am or something like that so I accepted my morning commute would come out of my pocket but I had a free journey home.
It's different when you are retired and you don't have that same level of disposable income.
When the 60+ card was introduced in 2012 the world was a different place and as I've said up thread, the pandemic destroyed the operational model for TfL as it did for the train operating companies all of whom had to go begging to the Government for money to keep the services running.
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
.............and the answer is 70.....or dice have no memory? Is it a trick question?
I wouldn't expect 70. I'd expect something close to 70.
Depends how you look at it, when you roll 6, you have 2 3s. So could be around 210 as well.
Using that logic you would expect 70 3s 140 3s from 70 6s 70 5s (3 plus 2s) 70 4s (3 plus 1s) 70 3s from the spare bits of the 4s and 5s 140 3s from the 1s and 2s added together
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
That same article mentions that TfL has a £23m shortfall. If the pass is costing £84m removing it solves the shortfall problem at a stroke...
Also this is a pass for those between 60 and 67. It doesn't offer the completely free travel you get as a pensioner it just allows those not yet in retirement to travel more cheaply than people in their 30/40/50s.
It does say "over 60s" and "free travel" in the URL.
So someone's being creative, or at best seriously careless, with the headlining. I can't read the paywalled text to judge.
If we want to get people into work increase the age threshold for this and instead offer those passes to people on UC, PIP or ESA who take on a new job.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
60+ is not just pensioners, will include working people.
A venn diagram of 60+ year olds who get to work for 10am and complain about younger colleagues WFH and "fare dodgers" would be hilarious. I think PBs drink driving Jenrick fanboy is a fare dodging freedom pass holder, but at least it keeps him off the roads.
I sincerely hope you’re referring to me
As it happens, I’ve never claimed my Freedom Pass but that’s just because of insane “rage rage against the etc etc”. It meant admitting my, ahem, seniority
Today I’ve decided to abandon this foolishness. I’ve become the kind of person that buys antiques in rural Suffolk, and gets really excited by it. Who am I kidding?
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
.............and the answer is 70.....or dice have no memory? Is it a trick question?
I wouldn't expect 70. I'd expect something close to 70.
Depends how you look at it, when you roll 6, you have 2 3s. So could be around 210 as well.
Using that logic you would expect 70 3s 140 3s from 70 6s 70 5s (3 plus 2s) 70 4s (3 plus 1s) 70 3s from the spare bits of the 4s and 5s 140 3s from the 1s and 2s added together
560 3s from 420 throws of the dice.
Not sure you can add the 1s and 2s. Perhaps only if they are consecutive....what does that make it.....
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
Why is 60 a sensible threshold here? It has surely been chosen for electoral rather than social or financial reasons.
Age is relatively easy (and cheap) to validate.
I'd be thinking definitely good idea at 80+, probably 75, maybe 70, 60 just seems bizarre.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
That same article mentions that TfL has a £23m shortfall. If the pass is costing £84m removing it solves the shortfall problem at a stroke...
Also this is a pass for those between 60 and 67. It doesn't offer the completely free travel you get as a pensioner it just allows those not yet in retirement to travel more cheaply than people in their 30/40/50s.
Tfl is surprisingly producing surplus the last two years, there isn't currently a funding gap. The £23m is the cost of extra employer NI.
Yes, increasing fares, reducing services, cutting back on maintenance (you don't have the level of weekend work you had five or ten years ago) have all helped. Bus passenger numbers are very strong thanks to the £1.75 cap maintained by Sadiq Khan and both the Overground and Elizabeth Lines are huge successes.
As usual, this is a bit of scaremongering and anti-Khan nonsense from those elements who don't like him personally and resent him for having driven the Conservatives out of the capital (Reform may well finish the job next year).
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
Many don't partake of free bus passes as they prefer to go places in style.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
Only nostalgia for the very old- Greater London was set up sixty years ago. Some of it is "Surrey/Kent/Essex, actually", it's part of some people's identity that they (or their family) moved out of London. Some of it is the natural human instinct to want an area they can control; the right win comfortably in Havering but don't have a chance in London as a whole.
As for the travel thing, Hexit campaigners usually promise that will be kept. Somehow.
Incidentally, Andrew Rosindell's latest local campaign is to oppose the formation of a massive borough of East London, taking in all of historic Essex in Greater London, with a massive permanent Labour majority bullying plucky little Romford. That's nonsense, isn't it?
Heard Farage once banging on him recalling how everyone in his village being happier when it was in Kent. Despite the fact he was born in 1964. So has no memory of it. You'd have to be 65+. And about 80 to have any practical civic memory.
It's partly upbringing though. I was born in Ilford in 1965 when it was still Essex (for another 2 months). My father's family lived in Stratford and my mother's in Leyton, which was already London, but we all regarded ourselves as Essex people. Essex County Cricket Club had it's HQ and county ground in Leyton at that time.
When I lived in New Malden 30 years ago I still put "Surrey" on my address, but I doubt many people do now.
Essex County Cricket Club still recruits from and has a considerable supporter base in 'London over the Border".
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
That same article mentions that TfL has a £23m shortfall. If the pass is costing £84m removing it solves the shortfall problem at a stroke...
Also this is a pass for those between 60 and 67. It doesn't offer the completely free travel you get as a pensioner it just allows those not yet in retirement to travel more cheaply than people in their 30/40/50s.
It does say "over 60s" and "free travel" in the URL.
So someone's being creative, or at best seriously careless, with the headlining. I can't read the paywalled text to judge.
It's a bit conflicted, but over 60s do indeed get free travel on everything except river boats and Boris bikes. However the article talks about "discounted" fares which is technically correct but it sounds like you get a 30% discount like with a senior railcard.
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
It still blows my mind how many supposedly intelligent people think I am wrong when I tell them you get more pizza with one 18 inch pizza than with two 12 inch pizzas.
Do you tell them to do the calculation and then laugh when they ask what's the calculation ?
Too many 'educated' people seem to be proud of their lack of basic mathematical skills.
I am no good at hard maths but can navigate everyday numerical reality in my head, (and keep noticing that a lot of younger people can't) but I would not be able to tell you from my head at what proportion of diameter increase the area of a pizza doubles.
Related to this is that people are routinely amazed that others don't know at all what they know a lot about. (Like most people don't know that Sir K is the son of a toolmaker; couldn't name the four gospels; don't know whether Alfred the Great was before or after Henry III).
You don't need to remember any of the formulae about the areas of circles; the truth of TSE's proposition arises simply from increasing both the height and the width of the pizza by 50%, which is multiplying by 1.5 (from 12 inch to 18 inch), hence the area increases by 1.5x1.5 = 2.25, which is more than double.
Simple things can fool people who don't think clearly; for example, during my recent absence our Sunil posted a photo of central London, and one of the responses said "it looks like you are significantly ABOVE the top of the Shard, which is impossible in a London building". Yet in the photo the top of the Shard was very clearly above the horizon; it ought to have taken just a moment's thought to realise that the photographer is always LOWER than any object that is above a level horizon in a photo.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
Why is 60 a sensible threshold here? It has surely been chosen for electoral rather than social or financial reasons.
Age is relatively easy (and cheap) to validate.
I'd be thinking definitely good idea at 80+, probably 75, maybe 70, 60 just seems bizarre.
Maybe it's regarded as the age people are likely to start getting mobility problems and difficulty walking around. I may have retired from marathon running having done my last at 59 so there may be something in it
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
60+ is not just pensioners, will include working people.
A venn diagram of 60+ year olds who get to work for 10am and complain about younger colleagues WFH and "fare dodgers" would be hilarious. I think PBs drink driving Jenrick fanboy is a fare dodging freedom pass holder, but at least it keeps him off the roads.
I sincerely hope you’re referring to me
As it happens, I’ve never claimed my Freedom Pass but that’s just because of insane “rage rage against the etc etc”. It meant admitting my, ahem, seniority
Today I’ve decided to abandon this foolishness. I’ve become the kind of person that buys antiques in rural Suffolk, and gets really excited by it. Who am I kidding?
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
60+ is not just pensioners, will include working people.
A venn diagram of 60+ year olds who get to work for 10am and complain about younger colleagues WFH and "fare dodgers" would be hilarious. I think PBs drink driving Jenrick fanboy is a fare dodging freedom pass holder, but at least it keeps him off the roads.
I sincerely hope you’re referring to me
As it happens, I’ve never claimed my Freedom Pass but that’s just because of insane “rage rage against the etc etc”. It meant admitting my, ahem, seniority
Today I’ve decided to abandon this foolishness. I’ve become the kind of person that buys antiques in rural Suffolk, and gets really excited by it. Who am I kidding?
I’m going to apply for my Freedom Pass today
OK Boomer.
The advantage of *leaning in* to my decrepitude is that insults related to age have less impact
I went to a debate in 2006 (?) re ID cards - the "Pro" being Nick Palmer who was very good against the Tories & Lib Dems - at the end of the debate the motion to introduce ID cards was carried. <
Thanks vino. I don't dismiss all fears about misuse of ID cards, but people who want to misuse personal information have plenty of ways to do it already. Not having a simple way of proving who you are is just a nuisance and gives an illusory sense of security.
The massive violation of GDPR and all the rules about data security should be a red flag. If I created a system with such features, I would be legally liable. Serious fines, per offence.
Strangely, every other country in Europe manages to have ID cards without committing crimes in the process.
That’s because no other country between the UK and India has as much unnecessary bureaucracy, or people insisting on it.
It's more that you have a raft of people (some on this chat) who simply can't conceive of the government doing a bad thing.
Post Office and Donald Trump would suggest otherwise.
I mean, do they really want a system where someone working in a council has unfettered access to your personal finances, medical data etc?
I know this is very, very hard to imagine, but imagine a Reform run council. Imagine that they try mining such data for dirt on people with sun tans.
Is your reaction YEEEEEEAY!!!! AWSOMEST! THING! EVER! ?
A more sinister example is the fate of Jews in Nazi-occupied France and Holland. A quarter of French Jews were killed, three quarters of Dutch Jews, about the same as in Germany itself. The peacetime Dutch census recorded religion; the French did not.
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
.............and the answer is 70.....or dice have no memory? Is it a trick question?
I wouldn't expect 70. I'd expect something close to 70.
Depends how you look at it, when you roll 6, you have 2 3s. So could be around 210 as well.
Using that logic you would expect 70 3s 140 3s from 70 6s 70 5s (3 plus 2s) 70 4s (3 plus 1s) 70 3s from the spare bits of the 4s and 5s 140 3s from the 1s and 2s added together
560 3s from 420 throws of the dice.
Not sure you can add the 1s and 2s. Perhaps only if they are consecutive....what does that make it.....
Ok. 140 1s or 2s with a 1 in 6 chance of the correct follow up - 23 occurrences
443 3s
Unless 4s and 5s must also be consecutive for the additional bit to count which reduces the 140 to 23 again
And I miscalculated of course - you only get 70 from the 1s and 2s! So the original 3 total should be 490
The initiative by Surrey Police on female runners getting sexually harassed is getting enormous cut through on my social media feeds. I think pretty much every woman I know has experienced it; even worse if you're out for a cycle. There's a great video of a female cyclist ripping a wing mirror off a white van in response.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
Many don't partake of free bus passes as they prefer to go places in style.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
Only nostalgia for the very old- Greater London was set up sixty years ago. Some of it is "Surrey/Kent/Essex, actually", it's part of some people's identity that they (or their family) moved out of London. Some of it is the natural human instinct to want an area they can control; the right win comfortably in Havering but don't have a chance in London as a whole.
As for the travel thing, Hexit campaigners usually promise that will be kept. Somehow.
Incidentally, Andrew Rosindell's latest local campaign is to oppose the formation of a massive borough of East London, taking in all of historic Essex in Greater London, with a massive permanent Labour majority bullying plucky little Romford. That's nonsense, isn't it?
Heard Farage once banging on him recalling how everyone in his village being happier when it was in Kent. Despite the fact he was born in 1964. So has no memory of it. You'd have to be 65+. And about 80 to have any practical civic memory.
It's partly upbringing though. I was born in Ilford in 1965 when it was still Essex (for another 2 months). My father's family lived in Stratford and my mother's in Leyton, which was already London, but we all regarded ourselves as Essex people. Essex County Cricket Club had it's HQ and county ground in Leyton at that time.
When I lived in New Malden 30 years ago I still put "Surrey" on my address, but I doubt many people do now.
Near where I am from there were, and I think still are, postal addresses ending: Cockfosters, Barnet, Herts.
However, Cockfosters in in the LB Enfield (formerly in the borough of Southgate, Middlesex), Barnet is the next London borough along, and neither are in Hertfordshire. Middlesex of course was abolished entirely, living on in cricket and the poetry of John Betjeman.
It's just as bad up north. The good people of Penrith were in the great border town of penrith, Cumberland, overlooking Westmorland across the Eamont. Then they joined with the whole lot as Cumbria. Now they are back into something called Westmorland and Furness, though ceremonially still in Cumbria but not Cumberland.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
I have the London 60+ Oyster which gives me free travel in the whole of the TfL area. If I tot up what it saves me in year it comes to around say £800. Very nice. However it's a saving I don't need. I could easily afford to pay the fares. So on a (rational) basis this state benefit for me makes no sense whatsoever. I should not get it. No brainer. But here's the twist. I value my 60+ Oyster at far more than the money it saves me. I get a glow using it, it makes me feel special, a reward/consolation for reaching advanced age and an incentive to get about and about. So on this basis, measured more broadly than straight £££, it's a benefit that works brilliantly. The £800 is generating at least triple that in feelgood utility for the recipient (me in this case).
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
60+ is not just pensioners, will include working people.
A venn diagram of 60+ year olds who get to work for 10am and complain about younger colleagues WFH and "fare dodgers" would be hilarious. I think PBs drink driving Jenrick fanboy is a fare dodging freedom pass holder, but at least it keeps him off the roads.
I sincerely hope you’re referring to me
As it happens, I’ve never claimed my Freedom Pass but that’s just because of insane “rage rage against the etc etc”. It meant admitting my, ahem, seniority
Today I’ve decided to abandon this foolishness. I’ve become the kind of person that buys antiques in rural Suffolk, and gets really excited by it. Who am I kidding?
I’m going to apply for my Freedom Pass today
OK Boomer.
The advantage of *leaning in* to my decrepitude is that insults related to age have less impact
Also, I get EVEN MORE free travel
And it incentivizes you to stay off the road, we all win
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
Why is 60 a sensible threshold here? It has surely been chosen for electoral rather than social or financial reasons.
Age is relatively easy (and cheap) to validate.
I'd be thinking definitely good idea at 80+, probably 75, maybe 70, 60 just seems bizarre.
Maybe it's regarded as the age people are likely to start getting mobility problems and difficulty walking around. I may have retired from marathon running having done my last at 59 so there may be something in it
Here's the original press release with a quote from Bozza;
There was still a recent memory of 60 being the age where you got pensioner perks. And at that stage, the gap between 60 and the actual pension age was still fairly small and fairly cheap to fill.
(The other thing here is that, outside the peaks, most public transport has to carry around a lot of empty seats- the savings made by cutting frequency or size of vehicles aren't really worth the hassle. So you might as well put someone on those seats.)
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
I have the London 60+ Oyster which gives me free travel in the whole of the TfL area. If I tot up what it saves me in year it comes to around say £800. Very nice. However it's a saving I don't need. I could easily afford to pay the fares. So on a (rational) basis this state benefit for me makes no sense whatsoever. I should not get it. No brainer. But here's the twist. I value my 60+ Oyster at far more than the money it saves me. I get a glow using it, it makes me feel special, a reward/consolation for reaching advanced age and an incentive to get about and about. So on this basis, measured more broadly than straight £££, it's a benefit that works brilliantly. The £800 is generating around triple that in feelgood utility for the recipient (me in this case).
Paid for by taxes on younger working people.....fine for supporters of a gerontocracy but not for those who want to support a party of labour.
On a complete tangent, elections in Norway next month and the Netherlands at the end of October.
In the Netherlands, the governing parties (including the PVV who walked out of the coalition at the beginning of June triggering the election) have fallen from 88 seats to a projected 50 with NSC set to be wiped out. The big winners are the CDA (the old Christian Democrats) who look set for a big comeback and JA21 who might go from one seat to seven.
In Norway, it looks very close between the "red" and "blue" blocs currently.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
60+ is not just pensioners, will include working people.
A venn diagram of 60+ year olds who get to work for 10am and complain about younger colleagues WFH and "fare dodgers" would be hilarious. I think PBs drink driving Jenrick fanboy is a fare dodging freedom pass holder, but at least it keeps him off the roads.
I sincerely hope you’re referring to me
As it happens, I’ve never claimed my Freedom Pass but that’s just because of insane “rage rage against the etc etc”. It meant admitting my, ahem, seniority
Today I’ve decided to abandon this foolishness. I’ve become the kind of person that buys antiques in rural Suffolk, and gets really excited by it. Who am I kidding?
I’m going to apply for my Freedom Pass today
OK Boomer.
The advantage of *leaning in* to my decrepitude is that insults related to age have less impact
Also, I get EVEN MORE free travel
Just don't tell the bean counters at the Gazette, or your next mission might be to explore Emerson Park.
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
.............and the answer is 70.....or dice have no memory? Is it a trick question?
I wouldn't expect 70. I'd expect something close to 70.
Depends how you look at it, when you roll 6, you have 2 3s. So could be around 210 as well.
Using that logic you would expect 70 3s 140 3s from 70 6s 70 5s (3 plus 2s) 70 4s (3 plus 1s) 70 3s from the spare bits of the 4s and 5s 140 3s from the 1s and 2s added together
560 3s from 420 throws of the dice.
Not sure you can add the 1s and 2s. Perhaps only if they are consecutive....what does that make it.....
Ok. 140 1s or 2s with a 1 in 6 chance of the correct follow up - 23 occurrences
443 3s
Unless 4s and 5s must also be consecutive for the additional bit to count which reduces the 140 to 23 again
And I miscalculated of course - you only get 70 from the 1s and 2s! So the original 3 total should be 490
The revised 1s and 2s proviso now makes it 373
Actually, what I meant was, I wouldn't expect 70 as although that might be the central tendency, you are fairly likely to get 3 say 68, 69, 71 or 72 times. So what I would "expect" is a number close to 70.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
60+ is not just pensioners, will include working people.
A venn diagram of 60+ year olds who get to work for 10am and complain about younger colleagues WFH and "fare dodgers" would be hilarious. I think PBs drink driving Jenrick fanboy is a fare dodging freedom pass holder, but at least it keeps him off the roads.
I sincerely hope you’re referring to me
As it happens, I’ve never claimed my Freedom Pass but that’s just because of insane “rage rage against the etc etc”. It meant admitting my, ahem, seniority
Today I’ve decided to abandon this foolishness. I’ve become the kind of person that buys antiques in rural Suffolk, and gets really excited by it. Who am I kidding?
I’m going to apply for my Freedom Pass today
OK Boomer.
The advantage of *leaning in* to my decrepitude is that insults related to age have less impact
Also, I get EVEN MORE free travel
Just don't tell the bean counters at the Gazette, or your next mission might be to explore Emerson Park.
Perhaps East Ham - I could entertain you to lunch at my local cafe in the Barking Road. Not perhaps what you're used to....
The initiative by Surrey Police on female runners getting sexually harassed is getting enormous cut through on my social media feeds. I think pretty much every woman I know has experienced it; even worse if you're out for a cycle. There's a great video of a female cyclist ripping a wing mirror off a white van in response.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
60+ is not just pensioners, will include working people.
A venn diagram of 60+ year olds who get to work for 10am and complain about younger colleagues WFH and "fare dodgers" would be hilarious. I think PBs drink driving Jenrick fanboy is a fare dodging freedom pass holder, but at least it keeps him off the roads.
I sincerely hope you’re referring to me
As it happens, I’ve never claimed my Freedom Pass but that’s just because of insane “rage rage against the etc etc”. It meant admitting my, ahem, seniority
Today I’ve decided to abandon this foolishness. I’ve become the kind of person that buys antiques in rural Suffolk, and gets really excited by it. Who am I kidding?
I’m going to apply for my Freedom Pass today
OK Boomer.
The advantage of *leaning in* to my decrepitude is that insults related to age have less impact
Also, I get EVEN MORE free travel
This training Leon not to react thing is going well.
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
.............and the answer is 70.....or dice have no memory? Is it a trick question?
I wouldn't expect 70. I'd expect something close to 70.
Depends how you look at it, when you roll 6, you have 2 3s. So could be around 210 as well.
Using that logic you would expect 70 3s 140 3s from 70 6s 70 5s (3 plus 2s) 70 4s (3 plus 1s) 70 3s from the spare bits of the 4s and 5s 140 3s from the 1s and 2s added together
560 3s from 420 throws of the dice.
Not sure you can add the 1s and 2s. Perhaps only if they are consecutive....what does that make it.....
Ok. 140 1s or 2s with a 1 in 6 chance of the correct follow up - 23 occurrences
443 3s
Unless 4s and 5s must also be consecutive for the additional bit to count which reduces the 140 to 23 again
And I miscalculated of course - you only get 70 from the 1s and 2s! So the original 3 total should be 490
The revised 1s and 2s proviso now makes it 373
Actually, what I meant was, I wouldn't expect 70 as although that might be the central tendency, you are fairly likely to get 3 say 68, 69, 71 or 72 times. So what I would "expect" is a number close to 70.
My misunderstanding did allow me to waste a few minutes of my life on nonsense though so its all good!
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
I have the London 60+ Oyster which gives me free travel in the whole of the TfL area. If I tot up what it saves me in year it comes to around say £800. Very nice. However it's a saving I don't need. I could easily afford to pay the fares. So on a (rational) basis this state benefit for me makes no sense whatsoever. I should not get it. No brainer. But here's the twist. I value my 60+ Oyster at far more than the money it saves me. I get a glow using it, it makes me feel special, a reward/consolation for reaching advanced age and an incentive to get about and about. So on this basis, measured more broadly than straight £££, it's a benefit that works brilliantly. The £800 is generating around triple that in feelgood utility for the recipient (me in this case).
Paid for by taxes on younger working people.....fine for supporters of a gerontocracy but not for those who want to support a party of labour.
Yes, I do know this and I agree. I'd vote No in a Londonwide Referendum on whether I should get free travel. I'm just relaying how this amazing perk impacts me mentally. Strange but true - if it was taken away the 'loss' would feel bigger than whatever £££ it saves me.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
In London you have the 60+ Oyster which basically gives you free travel on TfL services wherever they operate and trains within the London boundary after 9am Monday to Friday and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays and from 66 you have the Freedom Pass which is basically the same in London but can also be used on any bus service outside London as part of the English National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme.
Not surprisingly, the IEA want to get rid of the whole lot and make everyone pay full fares (presumably this would apply to children who currently free or discounted travel in London as well).
It's the same debate as we had with the Winter Fuel Allowance - should the 60+ card be means tested which sounds like more costly bureaucracy and on what bases should it be tested, income, location, property value, etc?
The perception is there are plenty of wealthy older people for whom this is a nice perk and they could afford to pay the fares - there's also the perception there are poor elderly people for whom it's a necessary lifeline to get out and about. Both are probably true and false in equal measure.
TfL's shortfall isn't the fault of the 60+ Oyster card which was introduced by Ken or Boris in 2012. More likely is the fall off in customer numbers post pandemic. Even now, tube passenger numbers on weekdays are 80-85% of pre pandemic levels (weekend numbers however have recovered strongly). Now, you could argue the numbers disguise the level of evasion - some claim one in six journeys are fraudulent, it may be more, it may be less.
60+ is not just pensioners, will include working people.
A venn diagram of 60+ year olds who get to work for 10am and complain about younger colleagues WFH and "fare dodgers" would be hilarious. I think PBs drink driving Jenrick fanboy is a fare dodging freedom pass holder, but at least it keeps him off the roads.
I sincerely hope you’re referring to me
As it happens, I’ve never claimed my Freedom Pass but that’s just because of insane “rage rage against the etc etc”. It meant admitting my, ahem, seniority
Today I’ve decided to abandon this foolishness. I’ve become the kind of person that buys antiques in rural Suffolk, and gets really excited by it. Who am I kidding?
I’m going to apply for my Freedom Pass today
OK Boomer.
The advantage of *leaning in* to my decrepitude is that insults related to age have less impact
Also, I get EVEN MORE free travel
Just don't tell the bean counters at the Gazette, or your next mission might be to explore Emerson Park.
Perhaps East Ham - I could entertain you to lunch at my local cafe in the Barking Road. Not perhaps what you're used to....
Came close to buying a house just off Barking Road recently. We went instead for a flat in Greenwich - to which we will be moving in early October. In the end local amenities and security concerns swung it for Greenwich.
Also on fare evasion I think the DLR is the hotspot (absence of entrance/ exit gates). There are loads of on train inspections of tickets/ passes as a result.
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
The obvious one is that there’s still only two frigging runways, which means they fly the planes on approach more close together than elsewhere, which means a little bit of bad weather leads to half the short-haul programme getting cancelled and planes scattered across the country.
If not the oyster bars, then something about BA making it more difficult over time to keep sufficient status to access the Concorde Lounge when buying plebian tickets.
Or the drop-off parking charges, combined with the airport being just inside the ULEZ so people from outside who never go to Big Bad London get inadvertently caught up in something they know nothing about.
Or perhaps that there’s only 10 flights a day to Dubai, so there’s a few weeks’ waiting list for all those millionaires emigrating.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
I have just finished reading a remarkable biography - Winthrop Bell, Cracking the Nazi Code. This does not refer to Enigma at al but to Bell's understanding of the rise of the Nazis. As a British citizen born in Canada he studied Philosophy and then went to do a Ph.D under Edmund Husserl in Gottingen. At the outbreak of war in 1914 he was interned with many others (including JC Masterman) in Rhuleben. On release he was recruited into British intelligence as agent A12. He wrote a paper about Germany after the war urging an end to the Allies blockade and investment rather than reparations. He persuaded the British delegation at Versailles but not the French. As he predicted this lead Germany to lose its democracy in the struggle between Bolshevism and national socialism. But his message was heard after WW2 and so the Marshall Plan. The Nazi Code refers to his reading of Mein Kampf with its threat to not only the Jews but to all non-Aryans.
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
You have to drive there if not coming from central London, which is a shitshow.
Also, Terminal 4 is utterly diabolical. Totally different to Terminal 5, which is brilliant.
You don't have to drive there, but public transport from the west is a buggeration. Worth doing to save money on taxis or parking, but still a buggeration. I've got the option of a train to Woking and a coach, or train to Farnborough and two buses. Gatwick is much easier, and even Stansted is.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
The obvious one is that there’s still only two frigging runways, which means they fly the planes on approach more close together than elsewhere, which means a little bit of bad weather leads to half the short-haul programme getting cancelled and planes scattered across the country.
If not the oyster bars, then something about BA making it more difficult over time to keep sufficient status to access the Concorde Lounge when buying plebian tickets.
Or the drop-off parking charges, combined with the airport being just inside the ULEZ so people from outside who never go to Big Bad London get inadvertently caught up in something they know nothing about.
Or perhaps that there’s only 10 flights a day to Dubai, so there’s a few weeks’ waiting list for all those millionaires emigrating.
I can’t roll up 45 minutes before the departure time as I do for stupidly early morning flights at my local airport (later flights I will visit the lounge but my bed wins at 4:30am).
The initiative by Surrey Police on female runners getting sexually harassed is getting enormous cut through on my social media feeds. I think pretty much every woman I know has experienced it; even worse if you're out for a cycle. There's a great video of a female cyclist ripping a wing mirror off a white van in response.
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
They ought to have an all-night tube service every day, not just on Fridays and Saturdays.
The fact that train users get charged a surcharge when arriving at Heathrow, which you can avoid by getting out at Hatton Cross and getting back in again, which is a nuisance if you've got a lot of luggage.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
I have the London 60+ Oyster which gives me free travel in the whole of the TfL area. If I tot up what it saves me in year it comes to around say £800. Very nice. However it's a saving I don't need. I could easily afford to pay the fares. So on a (rational) basis this state benefit for me makes no sense whatsoever. I should not get it. No brainer. But here's the twist. I value my 60+ Oyster at far more than the money it saves me. I get a glow using it, it makes me feel special, a reward/consolation for reaching advanced age and an incentive to get about and about. So on this basis, measured more broadly than straight £££, it's a benefit that works brilliantly. The £800 is generating at least triple that in feelgood utility for the recipient (me in this case).
I use my Senior Railcard quite a lot. You have to pay for it so I imagine it is a commercial proposition, unlike the Network Card I get free local travel midweek (the Network Card has a minimum fare of £13) and nationally. It is restricted to off peak travel in the South East, but not outside, and that includes any journey finishing outside the SE. So I was able to get a 6am train to Penrith and benefit from a 30% discount (on an already-discounted Advance fare)
Also on fare evasion I think the DLR is the hotspot (absence of entrance/ exit gates). There are loads of on train inspections of tickets/ passes as a result.
I like using a paper ticket on the DLR because it means you can just walk onto the trains, with people thinking you're a fare dodger because you haven't tapped in/out.
On a complete tangent, elections in Norway next month and the Netherlands at the end of October.
In the Netherlands, the governing parties (including the PVV who walked out of the coalition at the beginning of June triggering the election) have fallen from 88 seats to a projected 50 with NSC set to be wiped out. The big winners are the CDA (the old Christian Democrats) who look set for a big comeback and JA21 who might go from one seat to seven.
In Norway, it looks very close between the "red" and "blue" blocs currently.
Looking at the polls, the left-of-centre parties in the Netherlands don't seem to have made any progress. The current coalition could probably continue if you swap New Social Contract for the Christian Democratic Appeal (who have similar policies).
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
I have the London 60+ Oyster which gives me free travel in the whole of the TfL area. If I tot up what it saves me in year it comes to around say £800. Very nice. However it's a saving I don't need. I could easily afford to pay the fares. So on a (rational) basis this state benefit for me makes no sense whatsoever. I should not get it. No brainer. But here's the twist. I value my 60+ Oyster at far more than the money it saves me. I get a glow using it, it makes me feel special, a reward/consolation for reaching advanced age and an incentive to get about and about. So on this basis, measured more broadly than straight £££, it's a benefit that works brilliantly. The £800 is generating at least triple that in feelgood utility for the recipient (me in this case).
But do you have to live in London to be eligible for it? My parents are still paying the normal travel fees when they visit London.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
The initiative by Surrey Police on female runners getting sexually harassed is getting enormous cut through on my social media feeds. I think pretty much every woman I know has experienced it; even worse if you're out for a cycle. There's a great video of a female cyclist ripping a wing mirror off a white van in response.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
Many don't partake of free bus passes as they prefer to go places in style.
In London you get free train and tube travel as well.
And you have to get home from the pub somehow.
I am surprised they don't get free butt wipers in London.
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
I have the London 60+ Oyster which gives me free travel in the whole of the TfL area. If I tot up what it saves me in year it comes to around say £800. Very nice. However it's a saving I don't need. I could easily afford to pay the fares. So on a (rational) basis this state benefit for me makes no sense whatsoever. I should not get it. No brainer. But here's the twist. I value my 60+ Oyster at far more than the money it saves me. I get a glow using it, it makes me feel special, a reward/consolation for reaching advanced age and an incentive to get about and about. So on this basis, measured more broadly than straight £££, it's a benefit that works brilliantly. The £800 is generating at least triple that in feelgood utility for the recipient (me in this case).
But do you have to live in London to be eligible for it? My parents are still paying the normal travel fees when they visit London.
Yes you have to live in London to get it. People who don’t live in London don’t get to vote for the Mayor who hands out these freebies.
Also on fare evasion I think the DLR is the hotspot (absence of entrance/ exit gates). There are loads of on train inspections of tickets/ passes as a result.
I like using a paper ticket on the DLR because it means you can just walk onto the trains, with people thinking you're a fare dodger because you haven't tapped in/out.
Also cheaper than getting a penalty fare due to forgotten/missed/failed tap out, absolute PITA, at some stations they seem to have delighted in hiding the tap in / out point.
Green 36.44% LD 32.98% Lab 16.83% Ref 10.91% Con 2.84%
Changes compared to 2024
Green +15.20% LD +7.34% Lab -25.29% Ref +10.91% Con -5.72%
(SDP stood last time and polled 2.43%)
Highlights the half of the problem that the number crunchers mention a lot, but gets missed in the Faragasm talk.
There is a Lab-to-Ref flow, but the more important ones are Lab-to-Lib/Green and Con-to-Ref. Neither of these is particularly agreeable to centrists of any tint. And whilst events across the pond ought to highlight the risks of "I'll let the hard right win and that will show the centrists what's what", nobody ever won money betting against the self-destructive self-righteousness of the hard left (or right).
(Furthermore, I'm not sure that Your SongParty is going to inflict that much more pain on Labour- disillusioned lefties have already largely walked, haven't they?
The initiative by Surrey Police on female runners getting sexually harassed is getting enormous cut through on my social media feeds. I think pretty much every woman I know has experienced it; even worse if you're out for a cycle. There's a great video of a female cyclist ripping a wing mirror off a white van in response.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
.............and the answer is 70.....or dice have no memory? Is it a trick question?
I wouldn't expect 70. I'd expect something close to 70.
Depends how you look at it, when you roll 6, you have 2 3s. So could be around 210 as well.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
Labour getting eaten from the left in cities, and from the right outside them.
They'll always have Liverpool.
Probably.
Labour are in as much existential trouble as the Tories, possibly even more
Why? Because the entire mood, worldwide, has turned against their milquetoast wokeness and spendthrift social democracy. And their love of immigration and trans rights etc
For some they are now not leftwing enough. Inauthentic. These people will flee to the Greens and Jezbollah
For some their ineptitude and inability to reverse on Brexit means a switch to the Lib Dems
For many - especially working classes, especially white - things we can’t mention plus boats and the rest mean Labour are despised
A perfect storm engulfs them and they have one of the worst prime ministers (and chancellors) in British history. If we’re lucky they will get sub 20% at the next GE
Cons are equally screwed but at least they are on the correct end of the political spectrum
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
I have the London 60+ Oyster which gives me free travel in the whole of the TfL area. If I tot up what it saves me in year it comes to around say £800. Very nice. However it's a saving I don't need. I could easily afford to pay the fares. So on a (rational) basis this state benefit for me makes no sense whatsoever. I should not get it. No brainer. But here's the twist. I value my 60+ Oyster at far more than the money it saves me. I get a glow using it, it makes me feel special, a reward/consolation for reaching advanced age and an incentive to get about and about. So on this basis, measured more broadly than straight £££, it's a benefit that works brilliantly. The £800 is generating at least triple that in feelgood utility for the recipient (me in this case).
But do you have to live in London to be eligible for it? My parents are still paying the normal travel fees when they visit London.
Yes you do. You have to show proof of address to get it (and pay £20) then again each year on renewal (£10).
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
Does that make the mistake of assuming that each oldie would make as many trips as they would if it weren't 'free' (as if they weren't also council tax payers, of course)?
Many don't partake of free bus passes as they prefer to go places in style.
In London you get free train and tube travel as well.
And you have to get home from the pub somehow.
I am surprised they don't get free butt wipers in London.
I’m sure they will have in certain establishments.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
It still blows my mind how many supposedly intelligent people think I am wrong when I tell them you get more pizza with one 18 inch pizza than with two 12 inch pizzas.
The crust to topping ratio will be better on the 18" too.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
Indeed. What then does that make seventh place in Cardiff and less than 3% in Newcastle?
Labour are in government, having won a landslide just over a year ago, and are now in danger of dropping below the conservatives who are irrelevant at present, and certainly those two elections were not on even the most optimistic supporter's radar
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
One of the few airports in the world you cannot leave for free. You can't walk or cycle through the tunnel. The bus used to be free to get you through, but Khan nixed that.
So if someone arrives with no working payment mechanism, they cannot leave Heathrow.
It still irritates me that the Americans insist on telling you that the difference between 47 and 52 is 5 (which might be classed as unnecessary information) and fail to tell us how these numbers compare with the last ones giving the direction of travel. Why on earth do they do this?
Having said this, I got lured into watching a video yesterday when people in the street were being asked if a die was rolled 420 times how many 3s would you expect? The people getting it wrong included a teacher, allegedly. Innumeracy rules, apparently.
.............and the answer is 70.....or dice have no memory? Is it a trick question?
I wouldn't expect 70. I'd expect something close to 70.
Depends how you look at it, when you roll 6, you have 2 3s. So could be around 210 as well.
Using that logic you would expect 70 3s 140 3s from 70 6s 70 5s (3 plus 2s) 70 4s (3 plus 1s) 70 3s from the spare bits of the 4s and 5s 140 3s from the 1s and 2s added together
560 3s from 420 throws of the dice.
Not sure you can add the 1s and 2s. Perhaps only if they are consecutive....what does that make it.....
Ok. 140 1s or 2s with a 1 in 6 chance of the correct follow up - 23 occurrences
443 3s
Unless 4s and 5s must also be consecutive for the additional bit to count which reduces the 140 to 23 again
And I miscalculated of course - you only get 70 from the 1s and 2s! So the original 3 total should be 490
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
The obvious one is that there’s still only two frigging runways, which means they fly the planes on approach more close together than elsewhere, which means a little bit of bad weather leads to half the short-haul programme getting cancelled and planes scattered across the country.
If not the oyster bars, then something about BA making it more difficult over time to keep sufficient status to access the Concorde Lounge when buying plebian tickets.
Or the drop-off parking charges, combined with the airport being just inside the ULEZ so people from outside who never go to Big Bad London get inadvertently caught up in something they know nothing about.
Or perhaps that there’s only 10 flights a day to Dubai, so there’s a few weeks’ waiting list for all those millionaires emigrating.
Like for the last point
John Lewis just inside security only stocking XXXL belts when yours has got lost in the scanner Sub-contractor's rep staking out security for you in the hope he can cadge a free dinner, clad in leisure wear with obvious joint burns down the front
Just me?
Cons All the walking at terminals 2 and 3
Recent pros Arrival of Big Smoke pubs Superloop... I can just sit on a bus? All the way home?
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
One of the few airports in the world you cannot leave for free. You can't walk or cycle through the tunnel. The bus used to be free to get you through, but Khan nixed that.
So if someone arrives with no working payment mechanism, they cannot leave Heathrow.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
A terrible result for Labour in Jim Callaghan and Alun Michael's manor, but blimey! The Tories in genteel Penarth aren't even at the races. They used to be comfortably second.
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
Labour getting eaten from the left in cities, and from the right outside them.
They'll always have Liverpool.
Probably.
Labour are in as much existential trouble as the Tories, possibly even more
Why? Because the entire mood, worldwide, has turned against their milquetoast wokeness and spendthrift social democracy. And their love of immigration and trans rights etc
For some they are now not leftwing enough. Inauthentic. These people will flee to the Greens and Jezbollah
For some their ineptitude and inability to reverse on Brexit means a switch to the Lib Dems
For many - especially working classes, especially white - things we can’t mention plus boats and the rest mean Labour are despised
A perfect storm engulfs them and they have one of the worst prime ministers (and chancellors) in British history. If we’re lucky they will get sub 20% at the next GE
Cons are equally screwed but at least they are on the correct end of the political spectrum
You forgot to mention.
Inability to implement any policies that will help the country.
Inability to implement any policies that will make voters feel happier or more prosperous.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
He was on the streets screaming for “throats to be cut” - during the riots - and he doesn’t do any time and then he’s cleared - all good. He was probably joking. Haha
Lucy Connolly sent a stupid tweet - A TWEET - before any riots, then deleted it, and she got 34 months in prison
Yes yes yes she pleaded guilty but that’s coz she was bullied into it. They didn’t bully him
This is the most two tier thing since Two Tier Kier literally built two tiers in the twotiergarten
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
One of the few airports in the world you cannot leave for free. You can't walk or cycle through the tunnel. The bus used to be free to get you through, but Khan nixed that.
So if someone arrives with no working payment mechanism, they cannot leave Heathrow.
I once walked from my B&B to Gatwick. It was a pain in the arse. There was a footbridge across the dual carriageway and a rear door - but there was also a sign saying it was going to be closed next month, so I am not sure if you can still do that
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
Morning Big G! I'm in Llandudno with the family today. Lovely day. Keeping my eye out for an octogenarian ex-policeman.
Hi @Cookie - I hope you and your family have a wonderful day exploring our town with its two Ormes, amazing promenade and pier, and if you have time take the tram to the summit of the Great Orme and enjoy amazing views. Also the Great Orme copper mine and the Great Orme chair lift are popular
I was out early at M & S food shopping for something nice to cook for my beloved, but that was at 8.30am and am now enjoyng a quiet day at home and in the garden
Greens squeak Jesmond from the LDs, Labour a distant third, Ref and Con eat the crumbs South Jesmond By-election RESULT: Owen Bell (LAB) - 267 Jude Browne (LD) - 523 Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45 Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173 Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Horrid results for Labour (down 25%), and the Conservatives.
Indeed. What then does that make seventh place in Cardiff and less than 3% in Newcastle?
Labour are in government, having won a landslide just over a year ago, and are now in danger of dropping below the conservatives who are irrelevant at present, and certainly those two elections were not on even the most optimistic supporter's radar
Do you have any gen on how he 20mph default limit reviews are turning out in Wales, Big G, or chatter?
I've only seen review data on Wexham, and afaics it looks like 14-15% of urban streets and roads will be sticking at 20mph in most places.
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
The obvious one is that there’s still only two frigging runways, which means they fly the planes on approach more close together than elsewhere, which means a little bit of bad weather leads to half the short-haul programme getting cancelled and planes scattered across the country.
If not the oyster bars, then something about BA making it more difficult over time to keep sufficient status to access the Concorde Lounge when buying plebian tickets.
Or the drop-off parking charges, combined with the airport being just inside the ULEZ so people from outside who never go to Big Bad London get inadvertently caught up in something they know nothing about.
Or perhaps that there’s only 10 flights a day to Dubai, so there’s a few weeks’ waiting list for all those millionaires emigrating.
Like for the last point
John Lewis just inside security only stocking XXXL belts when yours has got lost in the scanner Sub-contractor's rep staking out security for you in the hope he can cadge a free dinner, clad in leisure wear with obvious joint burns down the front
Just me?
Cons All the walking at terminals 2 and 3
Recent pros Arrival of Big Smoke pubs Superloop... I can just sit on a bus? All the way home?
The Big Smoke pub at Luton has improved it no end (not a difficult feat though)
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
He was on the streets screaming for “throats to be cut” - during the riots - and he doesn’t do any time and then he’s cleared - all good. He was probably joking. Haha
Lucy Connolly sent a stupid tweet - A TWEET - before any riots, then deleted it, and she got 34 months in prison
Yes yes yes she pleaded guilty but that’s coz she was bullied into it. They didn’t bully him
This is the most two tier thing since Two Tier Kier literally built two tiers in the twotiergarten
It does appear that Ms Connolly was very badly advised.
The sensible thing to do would be for her sentence to be commuted to time served, lest she become a political martyr against the government, the poster girl for “two tier” justice.
It’s pretty obvious that the day she gets released she’ll be lining up the podcast bookings, probably starting with Piers Morgan, Triggernomety, and Lotus Eaters, before heading to the US where a lot of the right-wing podcasters have talked about her case.
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
One of the few airports in the world you cannot leave for free. You can't walk or cycle through the tunnel. The bus used to be free to get you through, but Khan nixed that.
So if someone arrives with no working payment mechanism, they cannot leave Heathrow.
I once walked from my B&B to Gatwick. It was a pain in the arse. There was a footbridge across the dual carriageway and a rear door - but there was also a sign saying it was going to be closed next month, so I am not sure if you can still do that
Airports are the worst price gougers in the country. There should be an inquiry, maybe by the Competition and Markets Authority.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
Have we discussed Reform's request to place some of their friends in the House of Lords. And if they were able to, would Nadine give up on Boris and join Reform?
They can "request" whatever they like, it's not in their fief or power unless existing Peers set up a Reform group within the House of Lords. Nothing wrong with that if they chose so to do but it's the usual bleating from Reform who think because they are the top of the opinion polls, they are entitled to representation. That's not how politics works.
We've also seen a concerted anti-London push from Reform in recent days with Reform councillors in neighbouring authorities advocating "re-uniting" London Boroughs with their pre-1965 counties so Havering with Essex, Bromley with Kent etc. I suppose there might be some vague nostalgia for that as there might be for Yugoslavia or Prussia but most residents are, I suspect, for all they might loathe Sadiq Khan currently, happier within London with their 60+ free travel (which I know is supported by everyone on here).
So it would save money if Havering merged with Essex and Bromley merged with Kent - with the 60+ reform voter voting to remove their benefit.
As someone subjected to Zone 9 (I.e. out of London tfl fares) for 35 years it would also allow TfL to charge significantly more for their tickets in those boroughs
But it’s also the same on Teesside with anyone south of the Tees desperate to claim they are really in North Yorkshire
For a party which strongly relies on older voters (not to the extent the Conservatives do but still) it would seem counter-intuitive for turkeys to vote for Christmas. Are we assuming Reform will allow the poor citizens any choice in this or will they just enact this through primary legislation and leave everyone else to clear up the mess? As we're seeing with the current round of re-organisation, these exercises involve a lot of spending before any meaningful benefit is realised.
Just to clarify your understanding of how it works, boundaries have little or nothing to do with the 60+ Oystercard and Freedom pass. It's provided by Transport for London and can be used on TfL services whether those services are running inside Greater London or not. As an example, if I want to go to Sandown Park for an afternoon's racing and I don't want to pay for travel, I take the train to Surbiton and then catch the K3 bus (a TfL service) to Esher High Street and then walk to the track. I could pay to take the train to Esher but with my punting prowess, I need all the cash I can spare.
IF Bromley ceased to be a London Borough but bus services (including the Croydon Tramlink and Overground rail) were still provided by Transport for London, 60+ Oyster cards and Freedom passes would still be valid on those services and people from other parts of London could still use them for nothing. The locals would have to pay.
As usual with Reform "policies", it's incoherent and doesn't reflect the reality of how people live but apparently 30% of us want these clowns in Government. I suppose the one difference is some genuinely thought Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer might bring about some positive change and improve people's lives and I can appreciate that sense of disappointment. No one will be under any illusions with Reform.
That will just be Khan's Punishment Beatings Because We Stood Up For Our Freedom.
No one should incur the wrath of Khan.
Once more pb is ahead of the game. The Standard reports that someone or other has called for an end to the Freedom Pass.
I have the London 60+ Oyster which gives me free travel in the whole of the TfL area. If I tot up what it saves me in year it comes to around say £800. Very nice. However it's a saving I don't need. I could easily afford to pay the fares. So on a (rational) basis this state benefit for me makes no sense whatsoever. I should not get it. No brainer. But here's the twist. I value my 60+ Oyster at far more than the money it saves me. I get a glow using it, it makes me feel special, a reward/consolation for reaching advanced age and an incentive to get about and about. So on this basis, measured more broadly than straight £££, it's a benefit that works brilliantly. The £800 is generating at least triple that in feelgood utility for the recipient (me in this case).
But do you have to live in London to be eligible for it? My parents are still paying the normal travel fees when they visit London.
Yes you do. You have to show proof of address to get it (and pay £20) then again each year on renewal (£10).
A friend of mine used his mother's address to get one.
Here's more recent polling that you won't hear Trump or Farage supporters mentioning.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/692522/surge-concern-immigration-abated.aspx ...Americans have grown markedly more positive toward immigration over the past year, with the share wanting immigration reduced dropping from 55% in 2024 to 30% today. At the same time, a record-high 79% of U.S. adults say immigration is a good thing for the country.
These shifts reverse a four-year trend of rising concern about immigration that began in 2021 and reflect changes among all major party groups...
The paradox of the migration debate.
Most people want the total numbers to fall, but don't want the numbers in most migration scenarios to fall. It's not quite "less migrants in theory but not in practice", but it's pretty close;
The way that most people square that circle is to massively overestimate the proportion of immigration that is irregular/illegal because the boats are so visible. From that YouGov link,
Our research shows that almost half of Britons (47%) think there are more migrants staying in the UK illegally rather than legally, including fully a third of the public (32%) who think the illegal figure is “much higher”.
As our American friends are currently discovering, anti-immigrant talk is much more popular than anti-immigrant action.
The propensity of some people to believe stuff that simply isn't true never fails to astound me. It's not like it's hard to educate yourself on this stuff. The combination of cynical and malevolent politicians and gullible and stupid voters is a worrying one: we all know how this plays out in the worst case scenario and I for one don't want to be here if it does.
Your arrogance and sense of superiority does little for your argument. A little humble pie??
If I believed myself to be superior I would be less surprised at how frequently people believe stuff that is demonstrably false. I have an optimist's faith in human intelligence and am constantly disappointed.
Maybe you're wrong.😱😱😱
Do you think illegal immigration is higher than legal immigration, and if so what is your evidence? (This is the example we are talking about).
I am talking of your views in general, but either way on this case perception is also important. I think for many they don't make a big distinction here. They are so accustomed to lying politicians and being insulted by people like you they've had enough.
A Labour councillor who called for far-right protesters' throats to be cut at an anti-racism rally has been found not guilty of encouraging violent disorder.
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
He was on the streets screaming for “throats to be cut” - during the riots - and he doesn’t do any time and then he’s cleared - all good. He was probably joking. Haha
Lucy Connolly sent a stupid tweet - A TWEET - before any riots, then deleted it, and she got 34 months in prison
Yes yes yes she pleaded guilty but that’s coz she was bullied into it. They didn’t bully him
This is the most two tier thing since Two Tier Kier literally built two tiers in the twotiergarten
How does Nige address this though? I suppose he could appoint himself as a kind of super-juror with the power to reverse any verdict that he doesn't view favourably. It's the sort of thing friend Donald would do, but what are the practicalities within our system?
I’ve been asked to write 100 words on the “worst thing about Heathrow”
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
The obvious one is that there’s still only two frigging runways, which means they fly the planes on approach more close together than elsewhere, which means a little bit of bad weather leads to half the short-haul programme getting cancelled and planes scattered across the country.
If not the oyster bars, then something about BA making it more difficult over time to keep sufficient status to access the Concorde Lounge when buying plebian tickets.
Or the drop-off parking charges, combined with the airport being just inside the ULEZ so people from outside who never go to Big Bad London get inadvertently caught up in something they know nothing about.
Or perhaps that there’s only 10 flights a day to Dubai, so there’s a few weeks’ waiting list for all those millionaires emigrating.
Like for the last point
John Lewis just inside security only stocking XXXL belts when yours has got lost in the scanner Sub-contractor's rep staking out security for you in the hope he can cadge a free dinner, clad in leisure wear with obvious joint burns down the front
Just me?
Cons All the walking at terminals 2 and 3
Recent pros Arrival of Big Smoke pubs Superloop... I can just sit on a bus? All the way home?
The Big Smoke pub at Luton has improved it no end (not a difficult feat though)
Luton is now a genuinely nice airport. Small. Small is good. The train to the station is a blessing. The interior is agreeable. The connections with St Pancras are incredible - 24 minutes sometimes
Comments
A venn diagram of 60+ year olds who get to work for 10am and complain about younger colleagues WFH and "fare dodgers" would be hilarious.
I think PBs drink driving Jenrick fanboy is a fare dodging freedom pass holder, but at least it keeps him off the roads.
Bottom line is that someone of average IQ or higher ought immediately to have seen that Sunil's photo had been taken from somewhere lower than (maybe about three quarters as high as) the shard, and therefore conclude immediately that he was up one of the other tall buildings in the City (the area being off limits to paragliding, microlights and the like)
At outer suburban stations, the level of evasion is much lower but TfL know all this and they know where the hotspots are. The biggest problem is the wide gates for people with luggage or pushchairs. You see the evaders waiting for someone to go through and they tailgate them - the narrower gates are harder to get through. If it were me, I'd have only one wide gate at East Ham and a permanent revenue inspection presence on that gate but TfL take a different view and accept a level of evasion based on the law of diminishing returns.
Post Office and Donald Trump would suggest otherwise.
I mean, do they really want a system where someone working in a council has unfettered access to your personal finances, medical data etc?
I know this is very, very hard to imagine, but imagine a Reform run council. Imagine that they try mining such data for dirt on people with sun tans.
Is your reaction YEEEEEEAY!!!! AWSOMEST! THING! EVER! ?
So someone's being creative, or at best seriously careless, with the headlining. I can't read the paywalled text to judge.
When I lived in New Malden 30 years ago I still put "Surrey" on my address, but I doubt many people do now.
It's different when you are retired and you don't have that same level of disposable income.
When the 60+ card was introduced in 2012 the world was a different place and as I've said up thread, the pandemic destroyed the operational model for TfL as it did for the train operating companies all of whom had to go begging to the Government for money to keep the services running.
70 3s
140 3s from 70 6s
70 5s (3 plus 2s)
70 4s (3 plus 1s)
70 3s from the spare bits of the 4s and 5s
140 3s from the 1s and 2s added together
560 3s from 420 throws of the dice.
As it happens, I’ve never claimed my Freedom Pass but that’s just because of insane “rage rage against the etc etc”. It meant admitting my, ahem, seniority
Today I’ve decided to abandon this foolishness. I’ve become the kind of person that buys antiques in rural Suffolk, and gets really excited by it. Who am I kidding?
I’m going to apply for my Freedom Pass today
As usual, this is a bit of scaremongering and anti-Khan nonsense from those elements who don't like him personally and resent him for having driven the Conservatives out of the capital (Reform may well finish the job next year).
Also, I get EVEN MORE free travel
443 3s
Unless 4s and 5s must also be consecutive for the additional bit to count which reduces the 140 to 23 again
And I miscalculated of course - you only get 70 from the 1s and 2s! So the original 3 total should be 490
The revised 1s and 2s proviso now makes it 373
BBC News - Surrey Police crack down on jogging harassment and catcalling - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz0y8r141pxo
However, Cockfosters in in the LB Enfield (formerly in the borough of Southgate, Middlesex), Barnet is the next London borough along, and neither are in Hertfordshire. Middlesex of course was abolished entirely, living on in cricket and the poetry of John Betjeman.
It's just as bad up north. The good people of Penrith were in the great border town of penrith, Cumberland, overlooking Westmorland across the Eamont. Then they joined with the whole lot as Cumbria. Now they are back into something called Westmorland and Furness, though ceremonially still in Cumbria but not Cumberland.
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2012/october/mayor-restores-free-travel-for-60yearold-londoners-with-the-60-london-oyster-photocard
There was still a recent memory of 60 being the age where you got pensioner perks. And at that stage, the gap between 60 and the actual pension age was still fairly small and fairly cheap to fill.
(The other thing here is that, outside the peaks, most public transport has to carry around a lot of empty seats- the savings made by cutting frequency or size of vehicles aren't really worth the hassle. So you might as well put someone on those seats.)
In the Netherlands, the governing parties (including the PVV who walked out of the coalition at the beginning of June triggering the election) have fallen from 88 seats to a projected 50 with NSC set to be wiped out. The big winners are the CDA (the old Christian Democrats) who look set for a big comeback and JA21 who might go from one seat to seven.
In Norway, it looks very close between the "red" and "blue" blocs currently.
If anyone wants to offload, give me your gripes
Mine is the recent closure of all the oyster bars, but the Gazette editor may find this a bit First World
Also, Terminal 4 is utterly diabolical. Totally different to Terminal 5, which is brilliant.
If not the oyster bars, then something about BA making it more difficult over time to keep sufficient status to access the Concorde Lounge when buying plebian tickets.
Or the drop-off parking charges, combined with the airport being just inside the ULEZ so people from outside who never go to Big Bad London get inadvertently caught up in something they know nothing about.
Or perhaps that there’s only 10 flights a day to Dubai, so there’s a few weeks’ waiting list for all those millionaires emigrating.
South Jesmond By-election RESULT:
Owen Bell (LAB) - 267
Jude Browne (LD) - 523
Stephen Dawes (CON) - 45
Gavin Maw (RFM) - 173
Sarah Peters (GRN) - 578
Green GAIN from Labour
Currently, Trump is averaging 46% approval, 52% disapproval, according to RCP, and Emerson have the Republicans 5% and 7% up, for the Texas Senate.
Those numbers would likely see the House change hands, but neither Texas nor Florida would be in danger.
Green gain from Lab
Green 578
LD 523
Lab 267
Ref 173
Con 45
Green 36.44%
LD 32.98%
Lab 16.83%
Ref 10.91%
Con 2.84%
Changes compared to 2024
Green +15.20%
LD +7.34%
Lab -25.29%
Ref +10.91%
Con -5.72%
(SDP stood last time and polled 2.43%)
The fact that train users get charged a surcharge when arriving at Heathrow, which you can avoid by getting out at Hatton Cross and getting back in again, which is a nuisance if you've got a lot of luggage.
https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1956149544757944718?t=7tp89VwskaLiaynNbxowEw&s=19
They'll always have Liverpool.
Probably.
What then does that make seventh place in Cardiff and less than 3% in Newcastle?
There is a Lab-to-Ref flow, but the more important ones are Lab-to-Lib/Green and Con-to-Ref. Neither of these is particularly agreeable to centrists of any tint. And whilst events across the pond ought to highlight the risks of "I'll let the hard right win and that will show the centrists what's what", nobody ever won money betting against the self-destructive self-righteousness of the hard left (or right).
(Furthermore, I'm not sure that Your SongParty is going to inflict that much more pain on Labour- disillusioned lefties have already largely walked, haven't they?
Why? Because the entire mood, worldwide, has turned against their milquetoast wokeness and spendthrift social democracy. And their love of immigration and trans rights etc
For some they are now not leftwing enough. Inauthentic. These people will flee to the Greens and Jezbollah
For some their ineptitude and inability to reverse on Brexit means a switch to the Lib Dems
For many - especially working classes, especially white - things we can’t mention plus boats and the rest mean Labour are despised
A perfect storm engulfs them and they have one of the worst prime ministers (and chancellors) in British history. If we’re lucky they will get sub 20% at the next GE
Cons are equally screwed but at least they are on the correct end of the political spectrum
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjeykklwn7vo
TWO TIER JURORS
(That's big surprise. I wonder if people basically agreed with him when it comes to supposed Nazis)
Ricky Jones, 58, has been on trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court after he called demonstrators "disgusting Nazi fascists" and said "we need to get rid of them all" while addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on 7 August last year.
Mr Jones told police his remarks, captured on video, were "ill-advised" and not intended to incite or encourage violence.
The Dartford councillor, who has since been suspended by the Labour Party, had denied the charge.
He was arrested the day after making the comments and told the court he felt it was his "duty" to attend counter-protests.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjeykklwn7vo
So if someone arrives with no working payment mechanism, they cannot leave Heathrow.
John Lewis just inside security only stocking XXXL belts when yours has got lost in the scanner
Sub-contractor's rep staking out security for you in the hope he can cadge a free dinner, clad in leisure wear with obvious joint burns down the front
Just me?
Cons
All the walking at terminals 2 and 3
Recent pros
Arrival of Big Smoke pubs
Superloop... I can just sit on a bus? All the way home?
Inability to implement any policies that will help the country.
Inability to implement any policies that will make voters feel happier or more prosperous.
Useless publicity and public relations.
Political cowardice.
He was on the streets screaming for “throats to be cut” - during the riots - and he doesn’t do any time and then he’s cleared - all good. He was probably joking. Haha
Lucy Connolly sent a stupid tweet - A TWEET - before any riots, then deleted it, and she got 34 months in prison
Yes yes yes she pleaded guilty but that’s coz she was bullied into it. They didn’t bully him
This is the most two tier thing since Two Tier Kier literally built two tiers in the twotiergarten
I was out early at M & S food shopping for something nice to cook for my beloved, but that was at 8.30am and am now enjoyng a quiet day at home and in the garden
Best
I've only seen review data on Wexham, and afaics it looks like 14-15% of urban streets and roads will be sticking at 20mph in most places.
The sensible thing to do would be for her sentence to be commuted to time served, lest she become a political martyr against the government, the poster girl for “two tier” justice.
It’s pretty obvious that the day she gets released she’ll be lining up the podcast bookings, probably starting with Piers Morgan, Triggernomety, and Lotus Eaters, before heading to the US where a lot of the right-wing podcasters have talked about her case.
Competition and Markets Authority.
And PB favourite Lucy Connolly is still banged up.
* Ricky was at the very least, very, very naughty. I wonder if Sir Two Tier will let him back into the Red Tories?
And St Pancras is magnificent
One of my favourite small airports in the world