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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.
  • Strange to see the right-wingers come out in favour of the Euro after SYRIZA's victory.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,662
    Mr. Taffys, Greece started going downhill when the Macedonians destroyed Thebes.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited January 2015
    taffys said:

    ''There is something fatally wrong with a system which imposes real poverty on those least able to bear it and encourages the rich, the mobile and the skilled to flee.''

    The fault is not with the euro but the rubbish way the Greeks have run their country for centuries. Now, the fact they don't deserve to share a currency with Germany is coming home to roost.

    While it's easy to be sympathetic to individual hardships, it's hard to be sympathetic to the Greeks as a nation. It's been riddled with endemic corruption since forever, voters are bribed as much as the officials, and paying taxes is largely viewed as optional.

    The electorate was, in my view, utterly complicit in their economic downfall.
  • Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JoeMurphyLondon: Exclusive London poll: @YouGov finds Lib Dems fall to FIFTH place for the first time in the capital
    http://t.co/8OkFQJltkK

    Interesting take on the story there

    "An exclusive poll today suggests Labour could seize up to eight of its London target seats at the general election, putting Ed Miliband a step closer to 10 Downing Street."
    What happened to the Dan Hodges Mansion Tax theory that Lab were doomed in London?
    Overstated, as per most of his stuff.

    How many target seats do Labour have in London?

    Ilford North for starters :)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,779
    Afternoon all :)

    Just glanced at the London poll numbers - no real surprises. Labour did very well in the locals last May and subsequent Ashcroft constituency polls show that progress for all to see.

    As for Sutton & Cheam, it's all couched in ifs, buts and maybes to be honest. The Greens stoodvery few if any candidates in Sutton last year and while I'm sure there will be some Green impact this year, I'm hopeful that the likes of Brake, Burstow and Davey will be far more concerned with the Tories.

    Ashcroft suggested, I believe, the LDs would hold S&C.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,654
    edited January 2015
    It's the British government. The British opposition agree with them. Technically I think it's "voluntary" on the ISP's part, but central government is leaning on them.

    Leave Britain and live somewhere else, most developed countries are better and Britain will only get worse.
  • Socrates said:

    Cluck, cluck, cluck:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30985531

    David Cameron has said "good progress" has been made on coming up with a format for TV election debates that he would be willing to take part in. But he questioned why Northern Ireland parties had been left out... Asked whether he would "turn up" for the debates, scheduled to take place in April, Mr Cameron gave no commitment but indicated he was happy with the changes made.

    Cluck cluck cluck? The concept of negotiating seems to have wholly passed you by.

    Or perhaps you are just narked because Round 1 of this "negotiating" mullarkey went so badly against the kppers?
    Kippers don't negotiate.

    They just walk away.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Strange to see the right-wingers come out in favour of the Euro after SYRIZA's victory.

    It's the economic equivalent of a blood sport. You know it's wrong, and going to get messy, but you still want to watch.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    'It's been riddled with endemic corruption since forever, voters are bribed as much as the officials, and paying taxes is largely viewed as optional.'

    Whilst they had their own currency, that was their affair. They could exist in a state of perpetual glorious devaluation and nobody cared. Interrailing there in the 1980s, I sensed it was a country at peace with itself.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited January 2015
    geoffw said:

    @Indigo "(Finland has) a homogeneous culture and a population total of less than Birmingham"

    How about checking before making factual assertions?

    I did

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/10489070/OECD-education-report-Finlands-no-inspections-no-league-tables-and-few-exams-approach.html

    They have to be educated at least to Master's level, even for primary school teachers, and are thoroughly immersed in educational theory. They teach only four lessons daily, with two hours a week devoted to "professional development" – and their professional autonomy is sacrosanct.
    The composition of Finish society, Mr Welch adds, is also greatly significant. The country has only 5.4 million people and is much more culturally homogenous than Britain.
    "Lessons from high-performing school systems, including Finland, suggest that we must reconsider how we think about teaching as a profession and what is the role of the school in our society," wrote Pasi Sahlberg, Finland's most eminent educationist, who wrote Finnish Lessons: What can the world learn from educational change in Finland?
    He argues that it is not just Finland's teachers that make its system world class, but also the environment.
    "The freedom to teach without the constraints of standardised curricula and the pressure of standardised testing; strong leadership from principals who know the classroom from years of experience as teachers; a professional culture of collaboration; and support from homes unchallenged by poverty.
    Birmingham metropolitan area has a population a shade over 4 million so I was a little out there but the figure is illustrative.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    @Sunil_Prasannan‌

    Sent you a vanilla message.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    TGOHF said:

    MikeK said:
    " An internal investigation by UKIP’s lawyers carried out last July found “Mr Bashir had put in the resignation 3 days after the raid but back-dated it to a month earlier”."

    LAST JULY ?

    But he can't resign as an MEP, according to the latest inexplicable bulletin from the shallow end of the PBTory gene pool.

    I am sure he won't in any way embarrass his new party as he continues to represent his constituents.


  • It's the British government. The British opposition agree with them.

    No, that is wrong. Mobile phone operators have always had a policy of restricting access to websites deemed unsuitable for children unless you opt-in (it caused me a lot of grief a few years ago when I urgently needed to get on to one of my betting accounts and the only access I had was via a Vodafone dongle).
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    edited January 2015
    taffys said:

    ''There is something fatally wrong with a system which imposes real poverty on those least able to bear it and encourages the rich, the mobile and the skilled to flee.''

    The fault is not with the euro but the rubbish way the Greeks have run their country for centuries. Now, the fact they don't deserve to share a currency with Germany is coming home to roost.

    Save for the fact that the same has happened/is happening to Italy, Spain, Ireland, Portugal.

    A lot of countries wanted to create this currency [Edited: said country by mistake] and wanted to make the EZ as big as possible. Those who were outside were poo-poohed as being dinosaurs refusing to see the march of history. They created rules which were broken by pretty much every country that joined, including Germany. They claimed - hubristically - that the euro would become a reserve currency to rival the dollar and that it would be the great springboard for Europe.

    And here we are with levels of unemployment last seen before the war, blighted lives, emigration on a significant scale, real poverty etc.

    It's hardly news that Greece has not been well run. But it was let into the euro. The eurozone now needs to reap what it sowed instead of sanctimoniously lecturing the Greeks as if they were the only bad guys in this drama. And it might be good if - occasionally - eurozone politicians thought about the people who are suffering from this monstrous experiment.

  • Tim Fenton ‏@zelo_street · 8m8 minutes ago
    .@technoguido Is Technically Illiterate: @GuidoFawkes' pal knows Zip about #London's tube http://zelo.tv/1CXOk2u

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    Cyclefree said:

    On Greece, other than the tragic news of the death of Demis Roussos, and ignoring all the ins and outs of the loans, the IMF, what is in Greece's best interests etc etc, it seems to me that the mess Greece (and other countries are in) arises when you elevate a currency into some Golden Calf to be worshipped, to which all other considerations must be subsumed rather than see it for what it is (or should be): a store of value and a means of exchange.

    A currency should exist for the benefit of the people. Whereas it seems that the people are being told that they should exist only for the benefit of the currency.

    The euro has been fetishised beyond all reason, much like the Gold Standard in pre-war days, and with the same dismal result for ordinary people.

    Quite why left-wing parties go along with this is a mystery to me.

    If you want people to agree to austerity you need to persuade them not bark at them that this is what the euro requires - as if the euro were God. Euro politicians have been appalling at being honest about the euro and this fundamental dishonesty has tainted everything to do with it. It's hardly surprising if Greek politicians are being equally dishonest in their turn.

    A friend of mine at University once put Demis Roussos' classic "Forever and Ever" on the juke box in a pub. 10 times. The second time had people looking up. The third a gentle drift to the door. By the time the publican switched the machine off at 5 his pub was empty (apart from some young idiots in the corner who could not stop laughing).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Indigo said:

    geoffw said:

    @Indigo "(Finland has) a homogeneous culture and a population total of less than Birmingham"

    How about checking before making factual assertions?

    I did

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/10489070/OECD-education-report-Finlands-no-inspections-no-league-tables-and-few-exams-approach.html

    They have to be educated at least to Master's level, even for primary school teachers, and are thoroughly immersed in educational theory. They teach only four lessons daily, with two hours a week devoted to "professional development" – and their professional autonomy is sacrosanct.
    The composition of Finish society, Mr Welch adds, is also greatly significant. The country has only 5.4 million people and is much more culturally homogenous than Britain.
    "Lessons from high-performing school systems, including Finland, suggest that we must reconsider how we think about teaching as a profession and what is the role of the school in our society," wrote Pasi Sahlberg, Finland's most eminent educationist, who wrote Finnish Lessons: What can the world learn from educational change in Finland?
    He argues that it is not just Finland's teachers that make its system world class, but also the environment.
    "The freedom to teach without the constraints of standardised curricula and the pressure of standardised testing; strong leadership from principals who know the classroom from years of experience as teachers; a professional culture of collaboration; and support from homes unchallenged by poverty.
    Birmingham metropolitan area has a population a shade over 4 million so I was a little out there but the figure is illustrative.

    Correlation is not causation.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    Not sure there's a blanket ban.

    His death does clear the air a bit. It was previously possible to get the impression that the worst charge against him was being a bit careless with important paperwork.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Strange to see the right-wingers come out in favour of the Euro after SYRIZA's victory.

    Strange in what way? In Britain it has historically been the Conservatives who wanted into the snake, ERM and Euro.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Richard_Nabavi

    "TalkTalk is the second of the UK's four big Internet Service Providers to switch on its filters by default"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30982552

    After all who knows what might turn up if you enter the term "child abuse"?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    edited January 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    It's the risk of libelling others, who are alive.

    After what happened to the late Lord McAlpine, I am wary of believing such allegations - at least without evidence. Easy to make, hard to prove. Difficult for the rest of us to judge. And when politicians are involved, the political motive is nver far away.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited January 2015
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Just glanced at the London poll numbers - no real surprises. Labour did very well in the locals last May and subsequent Ashcroft constituency polls show that progress for all to see.

    As for Sutton & Cheam, it's all couched in ifs, buts and maybes to be honest. The Greens stoodvery few if any candidates in Sutton last year and while I'm sure there will be some Green impact this year, I'm hopeful that the likes of Brake, Burstow and Davey will be far more concerned with the Tories.

    Ashcroft suggested, I believe, the LDs would hold S&C.

    LDs placing fifth in London, behind UKIP and the Greens, isn't a surprise?

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/exclusive-election-poll-labour-could-seize-eight-london-target-seats-as-lead-grows-10002698.html
  • I think this is a day on which we should remember who got it right, back in 1998:

    "My fear is that the creation of a single currency will take European political union well beyond its acceptable limits. The effect of imposing a one size, fit all, single interest rate on a set of different economies with different cycles, structures and circumstances could be disastrous," he said.

    And, widening his attack, he added: "I have to tell you, there is a limit to European integration. We are near that limit now.

    "Push political union beyond its limits and you jeopardise the very peace, stability and prosperity which Europe's post-war statesmen were so anxious to secure.

    "My fear is that the creation of a single currency will take European political union well beyond its acceptable limits," he said.
    ...
    "One could find oneself trapped in the economic equivalent of a burning building with no exits"


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/114861.stm

  • @Sunil_Prasannan‌

    Sent you a vanilla message.

    Thanks, seen it!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,662
    Filters should not be on automatically.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    edited January 2015
    Ishmael_X said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    Not sure there's a blanket ban.

    His death does clear the air a bit. It was previously possible to get the impression that the worst charge against him was being a bit careless with important paperwork.
    Quite.

    What baffles me is why the dossier was given to Brittan in the first place. Such an odd choice.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    MikeK said:
    " An internal investigation by UKIP’s lawyers carried out last July found “Mr Bashir had put in the resignation 3 days after the raid but back-dated it to a month earlier”."

    LAST JULY ?

    Did Dave keep the receipt?
    This guy won't make the Con lists at the next Euro election - he'll just carry on troughing until then.

    Kills stone dead the Kipper spin that they just found out he was a wrong un - they did know last july - they just did nothing for 8 months until he defected.
    Hope he is happy in his new home
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,654


    It's the British government. The British opposition agree with them.

    No, that is wrong. Mobile phone operators have always had a policy of restricting access to websites deemed unsuitable for children unless you opt-in (it caused me a lot of grief a few years ago when I urgently needed to get on to one of my betting accounts and the only access I had was via a Vodafone dongle).
    British mobile phone operators do this, because the British government leans on them and threatens them with legislation. Softbank doesn't inflict this stuff on me - they have a service that parents can opt into - and my mobile provider didn't feel the need to do it in Japan when they were Vodafone either.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Nabavi

    "TalkTalk is the second of the UK's four big Internet Service Providers to switch on its filters by default"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30982552

    After all who knows what might turn up if you enter the term "child abuse"?

    Rotherham?
  • The late Paul Foot of Private Eye did some research into this. Why not look for it?
    The internet carries masses of stuff on this and related subjects.

    Any special interest here would arise because of the betting implications. I suppose the obvious reaction is that a full-blown scandal would knock the Tory price. I wouldn't over-emphasise that though. Brittan isn't the only senior politico implicated, and the Tories not the only Party. Neither Thatcher at the time, nor Cameron now, appear to be in any way culpable.

    The Mail article looks like a bit of a rehash of earlier allegations. If we get on to the snuff film however, it starts to become more interesting, as well as sinister of course. I'd always been of the opinion that the Police wouldn't move until after the election, but maybe Police/Governement relations are so bad that that is no longer so.

    For the record, I have not seen the snuff film but I am told that it is truly toxic, and senior figures are clearly recognisable in it. I am also told that the Police have a copy and are actively investigating it.

    When I got wind of the Mail story (and previously a similar one in the Mirror a few days ago) I sold Tories for a few quid on Spin. I thought they were too high anyway and it seemed a sensible defensive measure. I'm not selling any more, for the time being, but I will be keeping a very close look out for further reports on Brittan, the Elm House Guest List, and related matters.
  • Filters should not be on automatically.

    Why not? They are for cinemas.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @edmundintokyo
    Nonsense like "net filtering" only increases the use of proxies, and gives the security services bigger headaches.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2015


    British mobile phone operators do this, because the British government leans on them and threatens them with legislation.

    Repeating an untruth doesn't make it true. As I told you, British mobile phone operators have had a policy of applying opt-in restrictions for years. Nothing to do with the British government.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,662
    Mr. Nabavi, are you referring to the fact that children can't see 18 rated films in cinemas?
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    "Syriza’s victory: this is what the politics of hope looks like" cries Owen Jones. But Labour ought to be careful. Syriza is like the straw man the Tories like to attack when they aim for Labour. The latter would be wise not to do the former a favour by becoming it.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    On Greece, other than the tragic news of the death of Demis Roussos, and ignoring all the ins and outs of the loans, the IMF, what is in Greece's best interests etc etc, it seems to me that the mess Greece (and other countries are in) arises when you elevate a currency into some Golden Calf to be worshipped, to which all other considerations must be subsumed rather than see it for what it is (or should be): a store of value and a means of exchange.

    A currency should exist for the benefit of the people. Whereas it seems that the people are being told that they should exist only for the benefit of the currency.

    The euro has been fetishised beyond all reason, much like the Gold Standard in pre-war days, and with the same dismal result for ordinary people.

    Quite why left-wing parties go along with this is a mystery to me.

    If you want people to agree to austerity you need to persuade them not bark at them that this is what the euro requires - as if the euro were God. Euro politicians have been appalling at being honest about the euro and this fundamental dishonesty has tainted everything to do with it. It's hardly surprising if Greek politicians are being equally dishonest in their turn.

    A friend of mine at University once put Demis Roussos' classic "Forever and Ever" on the juke box in a pub. 10 times. The second time had people looking up. The third a gentle drift to the door. By the time the publican switched the machine off at 5 his pub was empty (apart from some young idiots in the corner who could not stop laughing).
    Haha Brilliant

    My Mum used to play his greatest hits indoors, "Forever and Ever" is the only one I can remember
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,654


    British mobile phone operators do this, because the British government leans on them and threatens them with legislation.

    Repeating an untruth doesn't make it true. As I told you, British mobile phone operators have had a policy of applying opt-in restrictions for years. Nothing to do with the British government.
    Britain's had a government for years.
  • Mr. Nabavi, are you referring to the fact that children can't see 18 rated films in cinemas?

    Yes. Presumably this is a national disgrace and an unacceptable infringement of civil liberties by the nanny state, using the same logic used in respect of the internet..
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Filters should not be on automatically.

    Why not? They are for cinemas.
    I don't have to show the cinema my passport.



  • British mobile phone operators do this, because the British government leans on them and threatens them with legislation.

    Repeating an untruth doesn't make it true. As I told you, British mobile phone operators have had a policy of applying opt-in restrictions for years. Nothing to do with the British government.
    Britain's had a government for years.
    Indeed so.

    Why not just admit you were wrong? It would be much simpler.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I think this is a day on which we should remember who got it right, back in 1998:

    "My fear is that the creation of a single currency will take European political union well beyond its acceptable limits. The effect of imposing a one size, fit all, single interest rate on a set of different economies with different cycles, structures and circumstances could be disastrous," he said.

    And, widening his attack, he added: "I have to tell you, there is a limit to European integration. We are near that limit now.

    "Push political union beyond its limits and you jeopardise the very peace, stability and prosperity which Europe's post-war statesmen were so anxious to secure.

    "My fear is that the creation of a single currency will take European political union well beyond its acceptable limits," he said.
    ...
    "One could find oneself trapped in the economic equivalent of a burning building with no exits"


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/114861.stm

    Or even better, in 1976

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMlYoUKeCqw
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited January 2015
    @Richard_Nabavi
    Which ISP's Richard?
    As far as I am aware neither Sky not Talk Talk had them enabled until recently, and after daddy Dave got on his moral high horse.
    (Sky's filter blocked access to a web child abuse help site)
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Save for the fact that the same has happened/is happening to Italy, Spain, Ireland, Portugal.

    It's worth remembering there was plenty of poverty before the euro in all of these countries.

    Nobody cared because they all had their own dogsh8t currencies that only an idiot would invest in.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,662
    Mr. Nabavi, no, it's just a nonsense of a comparison.

    In a cinema you see a film. On the internet there is rather a lot more to do and see. A film is (usually) 90-120 minutes long and clearly categorised for an age group, based on the sex, swearing and violence involved. Are we to have age limits for everything accessible online?

    Is Suetonius an 18 book? It features paedophiles, incest, rape, murder and eating a foetus. What about the Venus de Milo? 15 for bare breasts, presumably. And what about guidance on breast and testicular cancer? And who decides on all these limits? And why should they be auto-imposed on everyone and require passport numbers or other sensitive information to 'unlock'?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,652
    @Indigo "Birmingham metropolitan area has a population a shade over 4 million so I was a little out there but the figure is illustrative."

    When you say "population of Birmingham", people don't normally understand the "metropolitan area" which includes Wolverhampton, Tamworth, Lichfield, Coventry, Nuneaton, Redditch etc, and anyway that was 3.7milliion in 2013. They understand the city of Birmingham, pop 1.1 milliion. Finland's population is 5.4million.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    I think this is a day on which we should remember who got it right, back in 1998:

    "My fear is that the creation of a single currency will take European political union well beyond its acceptable limits. The effect of imposing a one size, fit all, single interest rate on a set of different economies with different cycles, structures and circumstances could be disastrous," he said.

    And, widening his attack, he added: "I have to tell you, there is a limit to European integration. We are near that limit now.

    "Push political union beyond its limits and you jeopardise the very peace, stability and prosperity which Europe's post-war statesmen were so anxious to secure.

    "My fear is that the creation of a single currency will take European political union well beyond its acceptable limits," he said.
    ...
    "One could find oneself trapped in the economic equivalent of a burning building with no exits"


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/114861.stm

    You don't mean this bit -- Mr Heseltine and Mr Clarke warning that the new policy risked consigning the Tories to electoral oblivion -- presumably?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2015
    Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Nabavi
    Which ISP's Richard?
    As far as I am aware neither Sky not Talk Talk had them enabled until recently, and after daddy Dave got on his moral high horse.
    (Sky's filter blocked access to a web child abuse help site)

    Sigh... we were talking about mobile operators, who, to repeat myself for the Nth time, have for many years had an opt-in policy for 'adult' websites. This policy was not imposed by the (at that time Labour) government. No-one to my knowledge has complained much about this (except me, actually, since it interfered with my betting!) .

    Yes, it is true that non-mobile operators are now being encouraged by the government to implement a similar system, for reasons of child protection.

    Maybe that's a good thing, maybe it's not, but let get the facts straight, shall we?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,654



    British mobile phone operators do this, because the British government leans on them and threatens them with legislation.

    Repeating an untruth doesn't make it true. As I told you, British mobile phone operators have had a policy of applying opt-in restrictions for years. Nothing to do with the British government.
    Britain's had a government for years.
    Indeed so.

    Why not just admit you were wrong? It would be much simpler.
    These businesses don't inconvenience their customers for fun. They do it because the government leans on them and threatens them with legislation. This is why in countries with less censorship-loving governments, they don't do it.
  • Interesting to see the Mansion Tax slump in London showing in the London polling.

    More exclusive PB Tory wisdom, only on PB.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    geoffw said:

    @Indigo "Birmingham metropolitan area has a population a shade over 4 million so I was a little out there but the figure is illustrative."

    When you say "population of Birmingham", people don't normally understand the "metropolitan area" which includes Wolverhampton, Tamworth, Lichfield, Coventry, Nuneaton, Redditch etc, and anyway that was 3.7milliion in 2013. They understand the city of Birmingham, pop 1.1 milliion. Finland's population is 5.4million.

    The former West Midlands county has a population of about 3 million.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    isam said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JoeMurphyLondon: Exclusive London poll: @YouGov finds Lib Dems fall to FIFTH place for the first time in the capital
    http://t.co/8OkFQJltkK

    Interesting take on the story there

    "An exclusive poll today suggests Labour could seize up to eight of its London target seats at the general election, putting Ed Miliband a step closer to 10 Downing Street."
    The marginal polling had Harrow, Bermondsey and Sutton being retained.

    A couple of other seats had redeemable margins of loss as well when polled pre-Gareth/Hampstead/Mansions etc.
  • Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB · 1m1 minute ago
    YouGov/Standard poll London. Changes on GE10
    LAB 42, 5.4
    CON 32 -2.5
    LD 7 -15.1
    UKIP 10, +8.3
    GRN 8 +8.4

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    geoffw said:

    @Indigo "Birmingham metropolitan area has a population a shade over 4 million so I was a little out there but the figure is illustrative."

    When you say "population of Birmingham", people don't normally understand the "metropolitan area" which includes Wolverhampton, Tamworth, Lichfield, Coventry, Nuneaton, Redditch etc, and anyway that was 3.7milliion in 2013. They understand the city of Birmingham, pop 1.1 milliion. Finland's population is 5.4million.

    For fcks sake, the point is Finland has a tiny population compared with a single major city, not with a country of approaching 70m like the UK, arguing about if that tiny number is 1, 2, 4 or 5 million is pointless except for pedantry and cheap point scorers. Did you have a substantive point?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited January 2015
    @Richard_Nabavi
    Blocking access to child abuse help sites helps stop child abuse?

    Interesting thought pattern you have.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited January 2015
    Sarah Palin makes a compelling and disciplined line of argument in her speech to Iowa Republicans:

    “Things must change for our government. Look at it. It isn’t too big to fail. It’s too big to succeed! It’s too big to succeed, so we can afford no retreads or nothing will change with the same people and same policies that got us into the status quo. Another Latin word, status quo, and it stands for, ‘Man, the middle-class everyday Americans are really gettin’ taken for a ride.’ That’s status quo, and GOP leaders, by the way, y’know the man can only ride ya when your back is bent. So strengthen it. Then the man can’t ride ya, America won’t be taken for a ride, because so much is at stake and we can’t afford politicians playing games like nothing more is at stake than, oh, maybe just the next standing of theirs in the next election.”
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Ishmael_X said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    Not sure there's a blanket ban.

    His death does clear the air a bit. It was previously possible to get the impression that the worst charge against him was being a bit careless with important paperwork.
    Quite.

    What baffles me is why the dossier was given to Brittan in the first place. Such an odd choice.
    Because he was the Home Secretary and this fell within his department's remit. Of course, Dickens could have reported the matters to the police. Did he? Curious if he didn't. They're the obvious people to report crimes to.

    The ST this weekend reported on Dickens being pleased with how Brittan had handled the matter and the help that had been given. Not quite how it has been reported.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    What are you doing in Silicon Valley, if you don't mind me asking?

    Greetings from Silicon Valley, where it's dark and my eyes are red raw with lag. Below some interesting stats that explain why the US is likely to remain the world's global innovation leader for many a long year to come. Look at the inventor deficits of the Asian and European countries. Then look at the American figure. I often think that every other engineer I see or meet when I come here is from China or India, and it looks like they probably are.

    China
    53,610 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    4,251 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    India
    40,097 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    532 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    South Korea
    9,127 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    1,472 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    Canada
    21,315 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    7,257 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    United Kingdom
    27,746 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    15,758 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    France
    19,123 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    9,540 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    Germany
    32,158 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    25,341 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    Australia
    5,631 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    4,427 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    New Zealand
    1,839 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    1,249 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    Japan
    6,986 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    6,715 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    United States
    11,131 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    194,609 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2015

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB · 1m1 minute ago
    YouGov/Standard poll London. Changes on GE10
    LAB 42, 5.4
    CON 32 -2.5
    LD 7 -15.1
    UKIP 10, +8.3
    GRN 8 +8.4

    At first glance I thought that looked good for UKIP, then I clocked..

    It's "Peak London Kipper"

    How have the Greens gone up by more than their score?
  • These businesses don't inconvenience their customers for fun. They do it because the government leans on them and threatens them with legislation. This is why in countries with less censorship-loving governments, they don't do it.

    What a load of nonsense. Cultural norms and business practices vary for many reasons, not just because of government pressure. Things are, I understand, rather different in Japan:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30698640
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    Not sure there's a blanket ban.

    His death does clear the air a bit. It was previously possible to get the impression that the worst charge against him was being a bit careless with important paperwork.
    Quite.

    What baffles me is why the dossier was given to Brittan in the first place. Such an odd choice.
    Because he was the Home Secretary and this fell within his department's remit. Of course, Dickens could have reported the matters to the police. Did he? Curious if he didn't. They're the obvious people to report crimes to.

    The ST this weekend reported on Dickens being pleased with how Brittan had handled the matter and the help that had been given. Not quite how it has been reported.

    That's certainly a view.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    I think this is a day on which we should remember who got it right, back in 1998:

    "My fear is that the creation of a single currency will take European political union well beyond its acceptable limits. The effect of imposing a one size, fit all, single interest rate on a set of different economies with different cycles, structures and circumstances could be disastrous," he said.

    And, widening his attack, he added: "I have to tell you, there is a limit to European integration. We are near that limit now.

    "Push political union beyond its limits and you jeopardise the very peace, stability and prosperity which Europe's post-war statesmen were so anxious to secure.

    "My fear is that the creation of a single currency will take European political union well beyond its acceptable limits," he said.
    ...
    "One could find oneself trapped in the economic equivalent of a burning building with no exits"


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/114861.stm

    Indeed. Well, we are where we are. The EU would be well advised IMO not to ignore the consequences of a democratic vote, however "stupid" they may think the voters to be.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    taffys said:

    Save for the fact that the same has happened/is happening to Italy, Spain, Ireland, Portugal.

    It's worth remembering there was plenty of poverty before the euro in all of these countries.

    Nobody cared because they all had their own dogsh8t currencies that only an idiot would invest in.

    One of the reasons they were relatively poor is that they allowed their currencies to depreciate. This might hide the austerity or regulate it, but it still impoverishes the population
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2015
    Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Nabavi
    Blocking access to child abuse help sites helps stop child abuse?

    Interesting thought pattern you have.

    Now you are just being an idiot. I didn't design their filters.

    But any PBers with young children who are happy for them to be able to bump into hard-core porn or other nasties on the internet are free to opt-in on their behalf. It's a free country.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Churchill doc on BBC2
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Greetings from Silicon Valley, where it's dark and my eyes are red raw with lag. Below some interesting stats that explain why the US is likely to remain the world's global innovation leader for many a long year to come. Look at the inventor deficits of the Asian and European countries. Then look at the American figure. I often think that every other engineer I see or meet when I come here is from China or India, and it looks like they probably are.

    China
    53,610 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    4,251 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    India
    40,097 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    532 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    South Korea
    9,127 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    1,472 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    Canada
    21,315 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    7,257 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    United Kingdom
    27,746 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    15,758 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    France
    19,123 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    9,540 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    Germany
    32,158 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    25,341 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    Australia
    5,631 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    4,427 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    New Zealand
    1,839 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    1,249 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    Japan
    6,986 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    6,715 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    United States
    11,131 - Number of emigrant inventors 2001-2010
    194,609 - Number of immigrant inventors 2001-2010

    China pop. 1.3 bn
    US pop. 0.3 bn

    More to the point, UK pop. 0.07 bn exports half as many as China pop. 1.3 bn. So China is exporting an invisibly trivial amount, and has plenty at home without needing the imports.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    Not sure there's a blanket ban.

    His death does clear the air a bit. It was previously possible to get the impression that the worst charge against him was being a bit careless with important paperwork.
    Quite.

    What baffles me is why the dossier was given to Brittan in the first place. Such an odd choice.
    Because he was the Home Secretary and this fell within his department's remit. Of course, Dickens could have reported the matters to the police. Did he? Curious if he didn't. They're the obvious people to report crimes to.

    The ST this weekend reported on Dickens being pleased with how Brittan had handled the matter and the help that had been given. Not quite how it has been reported.

    That's certainly a view.

    It's more than a view. It's standard practice to report allegations of crimes to the police. What did he think Brittan would do? Investigate himself. Of course not.

    I have worked as a lawyer in the government legal service and if an MP raised possible criminal offences with the Minister that is what my advice and that of my colleagues would have been: that criminal allegations need to be investigated by the police.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    Not sure there's a blanket ban.

    His death does clear the air a bit. It was previously possible to get the impression that the worst charge against him was being a bit careless with important paperwork.
    Quite.

    What baffles me is why the dossier was given to Brittan in the first place. Such an odd choice.
    Because he was the Home Secretary and this fell within his department's remit. Of course, Dickens could have reported the matters to the police. Did he? Curious if he didn't. They're the obvious people to report crimes to.

    The ST this weekend reported on Dickens being pleased with how Brittan had handled the matter and the help that had been given. Not quite how it has been reported.

    Unless Dicken was insane, the obvious conclusion is that Brittan was not named in the dossier.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    "Nearly one in five of the most visited sites on the internet are being blocked by the adult content filters installed on Britain's broadband and mobile networks.

    A Porsche car dealership, two feminist websites, a blog on the Syrian War and the Guido Fawkes political site are among the domains that have fallen foul of the recently installed filters."

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/02/internet-filters-blocking-popular-websites-guido-jezebel

    Web filters are a very blunt weapon?
  • Cyclefree said:

    Indeed. Well, we are where we are. The EU would be well advised IMO not to ignore the consequences of a democratic vote, however "stupid" they may think the voters to be.

    Well, the EU and the various Eurozone countries can't be held responsible for the democratic decisions of the Greeks. If the Greeks want to attempt to vote themselves more money, why should that impose an obligation on the Finns and Germans?
  • Mike,

    why does each leader have a TicTac in the corner of his eye?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Patrick
    Because they are all worth a "mint" since they became famous?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Patrick said:

    Mike,

    why does each leader have a TicTac in the corner of his eye?

    Eyeholes. They are masks.

  • Smarmeron said:

    "Nearly one in five of the most visited sites on the internet are being blocked by the adult content filters installed on Britain's broadband and mobile networks.

    A Porsche car dealership, two feminist websites, a blog on the Syrian War and the Guido Fawkes political site are among the domains that have fallen foul of the recently installed filters."

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/02/internet-filters-blocking-popular-websites-guido-jezebel

    Web filters are a very blunt weapon?

    They are a blunt weapon, and could obviously be improved.

    On the other hand, if a nine-year old girl is blocked from viewing Guido Fawkes or a Porsche dealership, it's not the end of civilised life as we know it, is it?
  • isam said:

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB · 1m1 minute ago
    YouGov/Standard poll London. Changes on GE10
    LAB 42, 5.4
    CON 32 -2.5
    LD 7 -15.1
    UKIP 10, +8.3
    GRN 8 +8.4

    At first glance I thought that looked good for UKIP, then I clocked..

    It's "Peak London Kipper"

    How have the Greens gone up by more than their score?
    Rounding. 8.4 rounded is 8. Though that implies 0.0% green votes last time.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,654

    These businesses don't inconvenience their customers for fun. They do it because the government leans on them and threatens them with legislation. This is why in countries with less censorship-loving governments, they don't do it.

    What a load of nonsense. Cultural norms and business practices vary for many reasons, not just because of government pressure. Things are, I understand, rather different in Japan:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30698640
    Feel free to correct Wikipedia if you think the specifics are wrong. They trace the adoption of filtering by mobile network providers to a 2004 OFCOM recommendation, pushed in turn by the Home Office.
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_blocking_in_the_United_Kingdom#Mobile_Internet_blocking

    Also ask yourself why mobile providers were doing this before most regular ISPs: Because mobile providers were much more heavily regulated (for some good reasons, like needing to avoid messing up each other's wireless signals) and easier to lean on.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Indeed. Well, we are where we are. The EU would be well advised IMO not to ignore the consequences of a democratic vote, however "stupid" they may think the voters to be.

    Well, the EU and the various Eurozone countries can't be held responsible for the democratic decisions of the Greeks. If the Greeks want to attempt to vote themselves more money, why should that impose an obligation on the Finns and Germans?
    Aren't the Finns and Germans also responsible for their own democratic decisions? The ones which led to them joining the euro as currently constituted with Greece joining also? And didn't they join the euro precisely because they wanted to create an ever closer Eurozone state?

    Finns, Germans, Greeks: they can't have it both ways, though they seem to want to: all the advantages of a single currency without any of the disadvantages.

  • IndyPeople ‏@TheIndyPeople · 34m34 minutes ago
    Benedict Cumberbatch criticised for using the term 'coloured' to describe black actors: http://ind.pn/15C8WT2




  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Smarmeron said:

    "Nearly one in five of the most visited sites on the internet are being blocked by the adult content filters installed on Britain's broadband and mobile networks.

    A Porsche car dealership, two feminist websites, a blog on the Syrian War and the Guido Fawkes political site are among the domains that have fallen foul of the recently installed filters."

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/02/internet-filters-blocking-popular-websites-guido-jezebel

    Web filters are a very blunt weapon?

    They are a blunt weapon, and could obviously be improved.

    On the other hand, if a nine-year old girl is blocked from viewing Guido Fawkes or a Porsche dealership, it's not the end of civilised life as we know it, is it?
    First they blocked the nine-year old girls, and I said nothing ...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,625
    90 minutes to latest LARGER (Lord Ashcroft randomly generated election result)

    Will Tories get a Bashir Bounce? Anywhere between a 10% lead either way is possible IMO
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654

    Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Nabavi
    Which ISP's Richard?
    As far as I am aware neither Sky not Talk Talk had them enabled until recently, and after daddy Dave got on his moral high horse.
    (Sky's filter blocked access to a web child abuse help site)

    Sigh... we were talking about mobile operators, who, to repeat myself for the Nth time, have for many years had an opt-in policy for 'adult' websites. This policy was not imposed by the (at that time Labour) government. No-one to my knowledge has complained much about this (except me, actually, since it interfered with my betting!) .

    Yes, it is true that non-mobile operators are now being encouraged by the government to implement a similar system, for reasons of child protection.

    Maybe that's a good thing, maybe it's not, but let get the facts straight, shall we?
    I recall when I got my iphone from Vodaphone a year or so ago I had to opt out of the adult filters. Just so I could read PB of course.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690

    Cyclefree said:

    Indeed. Well, we are where we are. The EU would be well advised IMO not to ignore the consequences of a democratic vote, however "stupid" they may think the voters to be.

    Well, the EU and the various Eurozone countries can't be held responsible for the democratic decisions of the Greeks. If the Greeks want to attempt to vote themselves more money, why should that impose an obligation on the Finns and Germans?
    Yes: neither the EU nor the IMF is under any obligation to lend money to the Greeks.

    There are two 'actors' in this play - Greece and its creditors. The creditors are under no legal or moral obligation to change the terms of its loans to Greece. The German or French tax payer is not bound by the decisions of the Greek electorate.

    If SYRIZA wishes to forge its own path, it is perfectly entitled too. And such a path may be better in the long run.

    But Greece's creditors are under no obligation to anyone other than themselves.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited January 2015

    Smarmeron said:

    "Nearly one in five of the most visited sites on the internet are being blocked by the adult content filters installed on Britain's broadband and mobile networks.

    A Porsche car dealership, two feminist websites, a blog on the Syrian War and the Guido Fawkes political site are among the domains that have fallen foul of the recently installed filters."

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/02/internet-filters-blocking-popular-websites-guido-jezebel

    Web filters are a very blunt weapon?

    They are a blunt weapon, and could obviously be improved.

    On the other hand, if a nine-year old girl is blocked from viewing Guido Fawkes or a Porsche dealership, it's not the end of civilised life as we know it, is it?

    No. But that also means adults are being blocked from access, and many may just go elsewhere rather than working out how to unblock.

    It's a subtle form of censorship that could easily be abused. Might (in the future) UKIP's site be blocked by default as encouraging racism or something? It's a slippery slope.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    Not sure there's a blanket ban.

    His death does clear the air a bit. It was previously possible to get the impression that the worst charge against him was being a bit careless with important paperwork.
    Quite.

    What baffles me is why the dossier was given to Brittan in the first place. Such an odd choice.
    Because he was the Home Secretary and this fell within his department's remit. Of course, Dickens could have reported the matters to the police. Did he? Curious if he didn't. They're the obvious people to report crimes to.

    The ST this weekend reported on Dickens being pleased with how Brittan had handled the matter and the help that had been given. Not quite how it has been reported.

    Unless Dicken was insane, the obvious conclusion is that Brittan was not named in the dossier.
    What's most puzzling to me is why Dickens didn't keep a copy of what he handed over.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    taffys said:

    Save for the fact that the same has happened/is happening to Italy, Spain, Ireland, Portugal.

    It's worth remembering there was plenty of poverty before the euro in all of these countries.

    Nobody cared because they all had their own dogsh8t currencies that only an idiot would invest in.

    One of the reasons they were relatively poor is that they allowed their currencies to depreciate. This might hide the austerity or regulate it, but it still impoverishes the population
    A currency being valued at the right amount doesn't cause poverty. It allows competitiveness to be set at a way that the economy functions and labour is put to work. Before the Euro, Spain and Greece didn't have a quarter of their work force not producing anything.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    IndyPeople ‏@TheIndyPeople · 34m34 minutes ago
    Benedict Cumberbatch criticised for using the term 'coloured' to describe black actors: http://ind.pn/15C8WT2

    Funny old world, I remember being told off in the Bahamas in the 1970s for calling the coloureds "black".

    Actually if black people were really black it would be technically accurate to call them "colourless" and everyone else coloured.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,273
    edited January 2015
    @Cyclefree

    That beats me too.

    My understanding is that there were only two copies in existence. He handed one to Brittan, and the other to his wife who was so upset by the contents that she shredded it.

    If it had been me, I'd have made at least half a dozen copies, and made sure my lawyer had one.

    Maybe I'm different to most people.

    PS Ascendant in the 3.20 at Ludlow - 14/1. Obviously speculative but 17 runners declared so place odds good.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2015

    These businesses don't inconvenience their customers for fun. They do it because the government leans on them and threatens them with legislation. This is why in countries with less censorship-loving governments, they don't do it.

    What a load of nonsense. Cultural norms and business practices vary for many reasons, not just because of government pressure. Things are, I understand, rather different in Japan:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30698640
    Feel free to correct Wikipedia if you think the specifics are wrong. They trace the adoption of filtering by mobile network providers to a 2004 OFCOM recommendation, pushed in turn by the Home Office.
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_blocking_in_the_United_Kingdom#Mobile_Internet_blocking

    Also ask yourself why mobile providers were doing this before most regular ISPs: Because mobile providers were much more heavily regulated (for some good reasons, like needing to avoid messing up each other's wireless signals) and easier to lean on.
    Ah, thanks for the link. If you follow ref 101 you find information about the 2004 Code of Practice. It was a self-regulation initiative by the mobile phone industry. The Code was set up by the operators, and Ofcom reviewed it (with help from the NSPCC):

    http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/market-data-research/other/media-literacy/archive/medlitpub/ukcode/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,662
    Indeed, Mr. Hopkins.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited January 2015
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    Not sure there's a blanket ban.

    His death does clear the air a bit. It was previously possible to get the impression that the worst charge against him was being a bit careless with important paperwork.
    Quite.

    What baffles me is why the dossier was given to Brittan in the first place. Such an odd choice.
    Because he was the Home Secretary and this fell within his department's remit. Of course, Dickens could have reported the matters to the police. Did he? Curious if he didn't. They're the obvious people to report crimes to.

    The ST this weekend reported on Dickens being pleased with how Brittan had handled the matter and the help that had been given. Not quite how it has been reported.

    Unless Dicken was insane, the obvious conclusion is that Brittan was not named in the dossier.
    What's most puzzling to me is why Dickens didn't keep a copy of what he handed over.

    It might have needed a large amount of photocopying, and perhaps he just assumed it would be in safe hands..?

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,654
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Indeed. Well, we are where we are. The EU would be well advised IMO not to ignore the consequences of a democratic vote, however "stupid" they may think the voters to be.

    Well, the EU and the various Eurozone countries can't be held responsible for the democratic decisions of the Greeks. If the Greeks want to attempt to vote themselves more money, why should that impose an obligation on the Finns and Germans?
    Aren't the Finns and Germans also responsible for their own democratic decisions? The ones which led to them joining the euro as currently constituted with Greece joining also? And didn't they join the euro precisely because they wanted to create an ever closer Eurozone state?

    Finns, Germans, Greeks: they can't have it both ways, though they seem to want to: all the advantages of a single currency without any of the disadvantages.

    They never signed a treaty agreeing to be responsible for anybody else's debts. Sharing a currency doesn't necessarily mean that you do this - arguably it's better if you do, but that wasn't what the Germans and Finns agreed to.

    They're all sovereign states - if joining is bad for Greece, it's mainly going to be up to Greece not to join, and you can't really blame the other countries involved if they got the better end of the deal. (Although at this point Greece joining doesn't look to have been a huge win for anybody...)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Indeed. Well, we are where we are. The EU would be well advised IMO not to ignore the consequences of a democratic vote, however "stupid" they may think the voters to be.

    Well, the EU and the various Eurozone countries can't be held responsible for the democratic decisions of the Greeks. If the Greeks want to attempt to vote themselves more money, why should that impose an obligation on the Finns and Germans?
    Yes: neither the EU nor the IMF is under any obligation to lend money to the Greeks.

    There are two 'actors' in this play - Greece and its creditors. The creditors are under no legal or moral obligation to change the terms of its loans to Greece. The German or French tax payer is not bound by the decisions of the Greek electorate.

    If SYRIZA wishes to forge its own path, it is perfectly entitled too. And such a path may be better in the long run.

    But Greece's creditors are under no obligation to anyone other than themselves.
    Legally you are right. I'm mainly interested in the politics of it all. Whatever happens, it blows a hole into the political impulses behind the EU and the eurozone in particular.

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    Not sure there's a blanket ban.

    His death does clear the air a bit. It was previously possible to get the impression that the worst charge against him was being a bit careless with important paperwork.
    Quite.

    What baffles me is why the dossier was given to Brittan in the first place. Such an odd choice.
    Because he was the Home Secretary and this fell within his department's remit. Of course, Dickens could have reported the matters to the police. Did he? Curious if he didn't. They're the obvious people to report crimes to.

    The ST this weekend reported on Dickens being pleased with how Brittan had handled the matter and the help that had been given. Not quite how it has been reported.

    Unless Dicken was insane, the obvious conclusion is that Brittan was not named in the dossier.
    What's most puzzling to me is why Dickens didn't keep a copy of what he handed over.
    He was burgled after handing in the dossier.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,779
    Afternoon all :)

    Cameron's speech on taxation is a reason I could never support the Conservatives.

    Don't get me wrong - I've no issue with tax cuts, especially and primarily for those on lower incomes though it's not just about cutting the tax rate now but the NI rate as well and there's nothing said about that today either.

    My problem is that with the continuing deficit, the last two things we should be doing is a) spending more and b) taxing less. The first worsens the expenditure side of the balance sheet and the second worsens the income side.

    In order to get the deficit down, the requirement is to BOTH cut spending AND raise taxes as we need to both reduce the amount going out and increase the amount coming in. The crisis in public finances was caused by Brown's profligacy after 2001 but it was exacerbated when income collapsed with the decline in economic activity after 2007-8.

    Yes, by all means, close down tax loopholes and ensure the meaximum amount of tax is collected, again, no problem whatsoever and especially from multi-national companies working with other tax authorities to ensure the appropriate levels of corporation and other business taxes are paid and collected but I'd rather be hearing about things like that and simplification of the tax code than the usual Tory refrain of promising to cut "middle class" taxes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    Not sure there's a blanket ban.

    His death does clear the air a bit. It was previously possible to get the impression that the worst charge against him was being a bit careless with important paperwork.
    Quite.

    What baffles me is why the dossier was given to Brittan in the first place. Such an odd choice.
    Because he was the Home Secretary and this fell within his department's remit. Of course, Dickens could have reported the matters to the police. Did he? Curious if he didn't. They're the obvious people to report crimes to.

    The ST this weekend reported on Dickens being pleased with how Brittan had handled the matter and the help that had been given. Not quite how it has been reported.

    That's certainly a view.

    It's more than a view. It's standard practice to report allegations of crimes to the police. What did he think Brittan would do? Investigate himself. Of course not.

    I have worked as a lawyer in the government legal service and if an MP raised possible criminal offences with the Minister that is what my advice and that of my colleagues would have been: that criminal allegations need to be investigated by the police.
    You appear to have argued yourself around to agreeing with my original statement.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Indeed. Well, we are where we are. The EU would be well advised IMO not to ignore the consequences of a democratic vote, however "stupid" they may think the voters to be.

    Well, the EU and the various Eurozone countries can't be held responsible for the democratic decisions of the Greeks. If the Greeks want to attempt to vote themselves more money, why should that impose an obligation on the Finns and Germans?
    Aren't the Finns and Germans also responsible for their own democratic decisions? The ones which led to them joining the euro as currently constituted with Greece joining also? And didn't they join the euro precisely because they wanted to create an ever closer Eurozone state?

    Finns, Germans, Greeks: they can't have it both ways, though they seem to want to: all the advantages of a single currency without any of the disadvantages.

    They never signed a treaty agreeing to be responsible for anybody else's debts. Sharing a currency doesn't necessarily mean that you do this - arguably it's better if you do, but that wasn't what the Germans and Finns agreed to.

    They're all sovereign states - if joining is bad for Greece, it's mainly going to be up to Greece not to join, and you can't really blame the other countries involved if they got the better end of the deal. (Although at this point Greece joining doesn't look to have been a huge win for anybody...)
    That rather highlights the fact that the whole point of the euro was to abolish or very severely dilute sovereignty. Funny how now - when the proverbial is hitting the fan - people are talking about Greece being a sovereign state which has to stand on its own two feet. When the UK does the same it is roundly criticised for being old-fashioned and behind the times.

    Also, Germany and Finland and others could have blocked Greece joining. They chose not to - for political reasons. They knew the figures were fiddled. They turned a blind eye. They too must live with the consequences of their decisions, not just the Greeks.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Luckyguy1983

    I don't think we can discuss that freely, but from a betting perspective the MODERATED issue is a potential drag on the Conservatives potentially.

    Oh -I thought you can't libel the dead, hence all the newspapers now publishing the allegations that Brittan was actively involved rather than just alledgedly negligent. It seems odd that we can't discuss something that was in this morning's Metro, but of course it's not my site and I will abide by any rules on it.
    Not sure there's a blanket ban.

    His death does clear the air a bit. It was previously possible to get the impression that the worst charge against him was being a bit careless with important paperwork.
    Quite.

    What baffles me is why the dossier was given to Brittan in the first place. Such an odd choice.
    Because he was the Home Secretary and this fell within his department's remit. Of course, Dickens could have reported the matters to the police. Did he? Curious if he didn't. They're the obvious people to report crimes to.

    The ST this weekend reported on Dickens being pleased with how Brittan had handled the matter and the help that had been given. Not quite how it has been reported.

    That's certainly a view.

    It's more than a view. It's standard practice to report allegations of crimes to the police. What did he think Brittan would do? Investigate himself. Of course not.

    I have worked as a lawyer in the government legal service and if an MP raised possible criminal offences with the Minister that is what my advice and that of my colleagues would have been: that criminal allegations need to be investigated by the police.
    You appear to have argued yourself around to agreeing with my original statement.
    I missed you saying just that. Easy to do when one skims over threads.

  • No. But that also means adults are being blocked from access, and many may just go elsewhere rather than working out how to unblock.

    It's a subtle form of censorship that could easily be abused. Might (in the future) UKIP's site be blocked by default as encouraging racism or something? It's a slippery slope.

    That's true of any set of restrictions designed to protect children from coming across nasty things. You can argue perfectly consistently that there shouldn't be any such restrictions, but I don't think the Great British Public will agree with you.

    In any case, we are only talking about the default setting for a new account. It's hardly the end of the world if you have to opt-in to see PB.com.
  • 90 minutes to latest LARGER (Lord Ashcroft randomly generated election result)
    Will Tories get a Bashir Bounce? Anywhere between a 10% lead either way is possible IMO

    Had a liquid lunch?
This discussion has been closed.