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Kemi Badenoch isn’t very effective – politicalbetting.com

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,154
    If Jenrick does succeed Badenoch I expect it becomes more likely a Reform - Conservative merger will happen
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,154
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mel Stride more likely.

    If Badenoch were removed most of her MP backers and former Cleverly backers would back Stride over Jenrick. Probably enough to give him a coronation as Michael Howard got in 2003 to ensure he not Davis replaced IDS.

    Stride can also offer a heavyweight fiscal conservative programme to centrist swing voters. Kemi has proved she can't out war on woke Farage and nor could Jenrick out Farage on stopping the boats and immigration

    What's behind this odd pushing from you of the silly bloater? If course Reform has outflanked the Tories on the right. But the Lib Dems, Labour and the Nationalist Parties are clearly occupying the 'centre-left' that you seem to wish to indulge, and such voters are even less likely to vote for the Tories (though they do seem very happy to offer free advice).
    No poll has Jenrick winning back Reform voters, Stride can at least hold the 2024 Sunak vote and add some ex Tories who went Labour or LD last year
    Stride is a nice guy but not a winner

    Frankly Badenoch is better
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,524
    MattW said:

    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    I've just come back from ten days in Montenegro. Apart from being marred by various small frustrations like cheating taxi drivers and triple digit temperatures in Podogrica, it was an improbably fascinating trip - a country, like so many in Eastern Europe, apparently split down the middle between following its heart, towards its Slavic brethren Serbia and Russia, and its head, towards NATO and civilised Europe.

    As some commenters seem to appreciate my occasional postcards from foreign parts, I thought I'd share some thoughts:

    - they use the Euro, and this has clearly trapped them in an unsustainably strong currency. Things feel much more expensive than they should for a developing country at the back end of Europe, unemployment is obviously very high (14% officially, youth unemployment 26%, in reality probably significantly higher)
    - Russian influence EVERYWHERE. The most common petrol stations were Lukoil, many Russian banks (Sberbank etc) have branches in the towns, lots of signs in tourist areas where in Russian and the usual quota of Russian men obviously drunk by noon on the beaches
    - but every Montenegrin ministry in the capital flies an EU flag alongside the Montenegrin one, and some fly NATO flags as well. So it's an odd mix. Their national symbol is the double-headed eagle, simultaneously facing west and east, which seems somehow appropriate to the country.
    - the language situation is just as confused. Montenegrin itself is sort of a dialect of Serbian but sort of its own language. It only formally separated from Serbian in the 1990s. Most of the signs use the Latin script but some are in modified Cyrillic and a few are in English.
    - the people I talked to are also a mix - they look Mediterranean rather than Slavic, though their language and culture are obviously basically Serbian. They drive better than you'd expect for a country that's next to Albania, and actually stop at pedestrian crossings, which was unexpected
    - the US embassy in Podgorica is staggeringly ugly and larger than the former embassy in London on Grosvenor Square. For an obscure country of 600k, not a world power of 70m. God knows what Uncle Sam is thinking.
    - the food is good if uninspired - classic Balkan fare of grilled meat, potatoes, sauces, soups, etc.

    Anyway it was a good trip, though unfortunately I had to cut it short because of work. They won't become another Belarus as they are too far - geographically and culturally - from Russia but I will be interested to see if they can maintain their precarious national balancing act over the next couple of decades or if they will embrace the free world with all its problems and disappointments wholeheartedly.

    New US embassies are both staggeringly ugly, and away from city centres. They are constructed like alien forts, aimed preventing attacks and demonstrations. To be fair a number of US embassies have been attacked over the years, so not unreasonable, but it doesn't encourage the right mentality in their staff.
    Has anyone had a good look at the new London one?

    AIUI that is rather better in that respect (eg the "tank traps" are hidden).

    A good piece, albeit with a fair amount of architectural bollocks in it *.

    https://www.harvarddesignmagazine.org/articles/fortress-london-the-new-us-embassy-and-the-rise-of-counter-terror-urbanism/

    * To the north, the site is bordered with an English yew hedge, which leads to meadowland planted with species native to North America (“analogous to the special relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom”)
    Reminds me of the "god pod", the old EDS HQ in Plano constructed around the time Ross Perot sold the company

    http://john.thywissen.org/eds.html

    Allegedly the original idea was for the building to straddle a 6 lane highway, vetoed on security grounds.

    The attractive grasslands (cowherd was an official job title) hide tank traps (or so it was said)

    I did visit once. The entrance road leads to employee security gates, with armed guards. If you don't fancy that there is an exit lane to the visitors entrance with more armed guards. If you decline that the exit lane takes you straight back to the freeway going the wrong way so you can't easily return.

    The whole campus said GO AWAY
    I quite like the US Embassy windy "SECURITY MEASURES NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN LONDON" rhetoric, when a lot of it is just like the concept of the moat at the Tower, and the Ha-Has at Ham House and Syon Park.
    Aren’t Ha-Has decorative though rather than defensive or structural - the name itself because it was a sneaky delight in the garden, for very bored people who were delighted by sudden trenches in gardens.
    They are dual purpose - preserve the view whilst keeping livestock out, and possibly help with drainage as well. Effectively they are a sunken wall.

    There are often fences at horse trials called "the sunken wall", which is a Mini Ha-Ha. When I used to watch Badminton Horse Trials, they always had a sunken wall fence.
    Yes, forgot the livestock reason! On the subject of Mini HaHas I had, when I was young, a scaletrix car called a mini haha, a rally type Mini Cooper, had a red one and a blue one, can’t remember which was the mini haha and what the other one was called. I hope this info has made everyone’s weekend worthwhile.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,205

    Phil said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    I may be in a minority of one on here but I think Kemi Badenoch is growing into the role a little and her poor start has been replaced by a more competent performance of late.

    Unfortunately, the inepititude and incompetence of the last Conservative Government is as several millstones round her neck and as Thursday's by-election results showed, the challenge of Reform has left her party looking out of touch, out of date and out of time with such activists as remain demoralised. Look at the numbers from Woking and Wealden - two areas which were strongly Conservative not too long ago.

    She is further hampered by having been part of the problem and it's hard when you've been part of the problem to be part of the solution. It took the election of David Cameron for the Conservative Party to escape the shadow of what had gone before.

    As others have said, there's a space for a party to be honest with the electorate about the public finances but that honesty has to start with a substantial mea culpa regarding how we got into this mess and that includes the Covid response from Sunak and Hunt's pre-election NI cuts. Acknowledging you got things wrong is the first stage toward getting things right but Stride has to explain, if we are to balance the books, how this will happen, what will be cut, which taxes will be raised, the future of the Triple Lock, commitments on defence expenditure etc and that will involve saying a lot of things people don't want to hear now.

    Hunt’s NI cuts were the most egregious piece of governmental electioneering since ... the previous piece of governmental electioneering.

    But they do significantly damage Conservative claims to be the party of fiscal discipline: What fiscal discipline exactly?
    Labour should have called the NI shit out on day one and reversed it there and then. That was their first test and they blew it.
    Ignoring the fact that the combined tax changes to thresholds and rates were a net tax rise. Over consecutive budgets they froze thresholds and cut rates which netted out as a tax rise overall.

    A tax rise that reduced the differential tax rates between earned and unearned incomes.

    Far from calling anything out, Labour should do the same thing again. Cut the NI rate (ultimately abolishing it) while extending the freeze on thresholds so unearned incomes get taxed more while salaried incomes are protected.
    I forgot you are a big fan of regressive taxation.

    Replace all NI as income tax and charge it at the combined rate to all taxpayers.
    Not regressive taxation, I simply think everyone on the same income should be taxed the exact same tax rate. That's fair.

    Absolutely NI should be merged into income tax, I've said that all along.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,964

    Reading the BBC's reports from Lords, almost looks as though India are playing for a draw.

    Maybe India are hoping to tire England out in the hot conditions by having them hanging about in the field all day.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,917
    Test cricket really not helping themselves as a viewing spectacle.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,027
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    So do I.

    The centrist Dad haven that is PB will happily look at who can beat Reform, but in the real world after four more years of this shambles, who knows.
    Quite.

    PB is very exercised by what can save Starmer, but there's an argument that it was all up for Labour when they lost leadership on the economy, and everything else is just zombie twitches.

    Very sticky polling figures argue against that though. We have yet to see the arse really fall out of Labour in the polls. I still think that Labour will swap places with the Tories soon - but that does align with my own preferences.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,627
    Taz said:

    Durham Miners Gala today. Giving Durham a wide berth as a consequence.

    If today is a day for avoiding drunk, lairy and potentially belligerent dickheads, I suggest adding Manchester to your itinerary of places to avoid. Full of pillocks in bucket hats and Oasis t-shirts manking it up.
    Following @theuniondivvie's comment last week, I'm off to Sheffield for a few beers with two old friends, one of whom we haven't seen for over ten years.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,102

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    No, that doesn't seem to be the case. Despite the dire approval ratings of the current government, Starmer beats Farage in head to heads on best PM.

    "In a head-to-head with Nigel Farage, Keir Starmer continues to lead on who the British public think would make a better Prime Minister (32% Starmer vs 26% Farage) – although his lead is down compared to in March (Starmer +6 June vs +11 in March)."

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/starmer-remains-ahead-farage-head-head-who-would-make-best-pm-majority-britons-unsure-what-he
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,154
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    So do I.

    The centrist Dad haven that is PB will happily look at who can beat Reform, but in the real world after four more years of this shambles, who knows.
    In August our next GE will be less than 4 years away

    Mind you, still an eternity with Starmer and Reeves
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,439

    Cookie said:

    If Reform look like heading towards a national landslide, nationwide tactical could surely come into play.

    It won't escape people's notice that they could have a legislature with hundreds of Trumpist-alike MPs.

    It might well escape the electorate's notice. Quite a lot escapes the electorate's notice. I'm rather keen on democracy, but even I wouldn't claim the electorate are that good at getting under the skin of a party's offer.
    I think it would be more a question of whether Labour and the Tories spend a lot of time on the loony backgrounds of so many reform candidates.

    The Tories in particular may benefit the most from this strategy, I think.
    The other thing is that voting patterns always change when it looks like a landslide might be in the offing, even more so this time of such untested party.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,027
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    No, that doesn't seem to be the case. Despite the dire approval ratings of the current government, Starmer beats Farage in head to heads on best PM.

    "In a head-to-head with Nigel Farage, Keir Starmer continues to lead on who the British public think would make a better Prime Minister (32% Starmer vs 26% Farage) – although his lead is down compared to in March (Starmer +6 June vs +11 in March)."

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/starmer-remains-ahead-farage-head-head-who-would-make-best-pm-majority-britons-unsure-what-he
    I did say trajectories. And nothing tells me that Starmer is going to arrest those trajectories.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,233

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    So do I.

    The centrist Dad haven that is PB will happily look at who can beat Reform, but in the real world after four more years of this shambles, who knows.
    In August our next GE will be less than 4 years away

    Mind you, still an eternity with Starmer and Reeves
    No, my friend, only seems like that!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,175
    Shunned Myanmar leader thrilled at US contact after Trump tariff letter
    Min Aung Hlaing expresses ‘sincere appreciation’ for letter from US president threatening 40% tariff
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/11/myanmar-military-leader-min-aung-hlaing-praises-donald-trump

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,154

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    So do I.

    The centrist Dad haven that is PB will happily look at who can beat Reform, but in the real world after four more years of this shambles, who knows.
    In August our next GE will be less than 4 years away

    Mind you, still an eternity with Starmer and Reeves
    No, my friend, only seems like that!
    Indeed, tempus fugit for us !!!!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,156
    "MIGRATION NATION Now Keir insists he ‘stands by’ sentiment of ‘island of strangers’ warning & says ‘UK must be an integrated society’"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35805873/now-keir-insists-he-stands-by-island-strangers/

    'tis an empty vessel that says at any given moment what he thinks will advantage him. A Chinese Room, it's all inputs in, outputs out, with no memory or ratiocination in between. You will recall the concept of the p-zombie, a human without consciousness. I dislike the concept since it leads to concentration camps, but the more I look at Starmer the more I wonder. What the hell is going on in his head? Childlike, emotions always to the fore, mulish and stubborn, yet he wantonly flits from position to position.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,147
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Durham Miners Gala today. Giving Durham a wide berth as a consequence.

    If today is a day for avoiding drunk, lairy and potentially belligerent dickheads, I suggest adding Manchester to your itinerary of places to avoid. Full of pillocks in bucket hats and Oasis t-shirts manking it up.
    Following @theuniondivvie's comment last week, I'm off to Sheffield for a few beers with two old friends, one of whom we haven't seen for over ten years.
    I suppose they'll be all "aving it".
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,835

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    How many people genuinely support any of the parties of the moment? So yes the biggest blocks will be looking to keep out their least favourite of the two likely contenders.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,027
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mel Stride more likely.

    If Badenoch were removed most of her MP backers and former Cleverly backers would back Stride over Jenrick. Probably enough to give him a coronation as Michael Howard got in 2003 to ensure he not Davis replaced IDS.

    Stride can also offer a heavyweight fiscal conservative programme to centrist swing voters. Kemi has proved she can't out war on woke Farage and nor could Jenrick out Farage on stopping the boats and immigration

    What's behind this odd pushing from you of the silly bloater? If course Reform has outflanked the Tories on the right. But the Lib Dems, Labour and the Nationalist Parties are clearly occupying the 'centre-left' that you seem to wish to indulge, and such voters are even less likely to vote for the Tories (though they do seem very happy to offer free advice).
    No poll has Jenrick winning back Reform voters, Stride can at least hold the 2024 Sunak vote and add some ex Tories who went Labour or LD last year
    Is there hypothetical polling that shows Stride augmenting the 2024 vote in the way you describe? Seems dubious to me.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,627

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    The contrast between year one of Starmer's government and year one of Blair's is quite telling.

    Within the first 12 months Blair had passed many changes that he wanted. Devolution, BoE independence, minimum wage etc etc etc all happened in the first 12 months.

    What the hell has Starmer done? Announcements that planning will be changed. Announcements that this, that or the other will happen.

    Where are the changes? We could have had a new planning system in place by now.

    Starmer is the sort of dull plodder who’d arrange a meeting to discuss a meeting.
    It is also the Cabinet. A lot of those Blair ideas where brought to the table by powerful cabinet members who had spent the opposition years thinking out plans. Absolute no sign of that except for Miliband and probably Streeting.
    I'm inclined to agree with that. I think there is a lot of important stuff bubbling under, but very little to see.

    I think they need to remember "We were elected as Labour, we need to govern as Labour" - not in the sense of caving in to the nutter wing, but in the sense of Wilson's “The Labour party is a moral crusade or it is nothing.”

    I like that we have a real Government for the first time in years, but they are timid little mice.
    I'm not too happy (as chair of my CLP), and interested in whether Corbyn and colleagues come up with something viable and outward-looking (I've no interest in internal wrangling). But an issue is what counts as newsworthy in a society where the press is increasingly unimportant. The way to get coverage seems to be stunts (as epitomised by Ed Davey), and serious initiatives that will take years to form fully pass almost unnoticed, except for special interest groups, who are against them.
    On @Mattw 's comment above - I strongly distrust moral crusades. They tend to lead to courses of action which are at best ill-thought-out (e.g. Live Aid). "Because it's the right thing to do" isn't enough; some sort of logic from actions to outcomes is needed.
    "Moral crusade" is very close to "Because we're the good guys". And "Because we're the good guys" leads to outcomes like the Post Office debacle and The Subject Which Must Not Be Named.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,224
    edited 11:20AM
    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    I've just come back from ten days in Montenegro. Apart from being marred by various small frustrations like cheating taxi drivers and triple digit temperatures in Podogrica, it was an improbably fascinating trip - a country, like so many in Eastern Europe, apparently split down the middle between following its heart, towards its Slavic brethren Serbia and Russia, and its head, towards NATO and civilised Europe.

    As some commenters seem to appreciate my occasional postcards from foreign parts, I thought I'd share some thoughts:

    - they use the Euro, and this has clearly trapped them in an unsustainably strong currency. Things feel much more expensive than they should for a developing country at the back end of Europe, unemployment is obviously very high (14% officially, youth unemployment 26%, in reality probably significantly higher)
    - Russian influence EVERYWHERE. The most common petrol stations were Lukoil, many Russian banks (Sberbank etc) have branches in the towns, lots of signs in tourist areas where in Russian and the usual quota of Russian men obviously drunk by noon on the beaches
    - but every Montenegrin ministry in the capital flies an EU flag alongside the Montenegrin one, and some fly NATO flags as well. So it's an odd mix. Their national symbol is the double-headed eagle, simultaneously facing west and east, which seems somehow appropriate to the country.
    - the language situation is just as confused. Montenegrin itself is sort of a dialect of Serbian but sort of its own language. It only formally separated from Serbian in the 1990s. Most of the signs use the Latin script but some are in modified Cyrillic and a few are in English.
    - the people I talked to are also a mix - they look Mediterranean rather than Slavic, though their language and culture are obviously basically Serbian. They drive better than you'd expect for a country that's next to Albania, and actually stop at pedestrian crossings, which was unexpected
    - the US embassy in Podgorica is staggeringly ugly and larger than the former embassy in London on Grosvenor Square. For an obscure country of 600k, not a world power of 70m. God knows what Uncle Sam is thinking.
    - the food is good if uninspired - classic Balkan fare of grilled meat, potatoes, sauces, soups, etc.

    Anyway it was a good trip, though unfortunately I had to cut it short because of work. They won't become another Belarus as they are too far - geographically and culturally - from Russia but I will be interested to see if they can maintain their precarious national balancing act over the next couple of decades or if they will embrace the free world with all its problems and disappointments wholeheartedly.

    New US embassies are both staggeringly ugly, and away from city centres. They are constructed like alien forts, aimed preventing attacks and demonstrations. To be fair a number of US embassies have been attacked over the years, so not unreasonable, but it doesn't encourage the right mentality in their staff.
    Has anyone had a good look at the new London one?

    AIUI that is rather better in that respect (eg the "tank traps" are hidden).

    A good piece, albeit with a fair amount of architectural bollocks in it *.

    https://www.harvarddesignmagazine.org/articles/fortress-london-the-new-us-embassy-and-the-rise-of-counter-terror-urbanism/

    * To the north, the site is bordered with an English yew hedge, which leads to meadowland planted with species native to North America (“analogous to the special relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom”)
    Reminds me of the "god pod", the old EDS HQ in Plano constructed around the time Ross Perot sold the company

    http://john.thywissen.org/eds.html

    Allegedly the original idea was for the building to straddle a 6 lane highway, vetoed on security grounds.

    The attractive grasslands (cowherd was an official job title) hide tank traps (or so it was said)

    I did visit once. The entrance road leads to employee security gates, with armed guards. If you don't fancy that there is an exit lane to the visitors entrance with more armed guards. If you decline that the exit lane takes you straight back to the freeway going the wrong way so you can't easily return.

    The whole campus said GO AWAY
    I quite like the US Embassy windy "SECURITY MEASURES NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN LONDON" rhetoric, when a lot of it is just like the concept of the moat at the Tower, and the Ha-Has at Ham House and Syon Park.
    Aren’t Ha-Has decorative though rather than defensive or structural - the name itself because it was a sneaky delight in the garden, for very bored people who were delighted by sudden trenches in gardens.
    They are dual purpose - preserve the view whilst keeping livestock out, and possibly help with drainage as well. Effectively they are a sunken wall.

    There are often fences at horse trials called "the sunken wall", which is a Mini Ha-Ha. When I used to watch Badminton Horse Trials, they always had a sunken wall fence.
    Yes, forgot the livestock reason! On the subject of Mini HaHas I had, when I was young, a scaletrix car called a mini haha, a rally type Mini Cooper, had a red one and a blue one, can’t remember which was the mini haha and what the other one was called. I hope this info has made everyone’s weekend worthwhile.
    Also, of course, it is a name in Longfellow's The Song of Hiawatha !

    And there are all sorts of things called Minniehaha everywhere.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnehaha
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,027
    viewcode said:

    "MIGRATION NATION Now Keir insists he ‘stands by’ sentiment of ‘island of strangers’ warning & says ‘UK must be an integrated society’"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35805873/now-keir-insists-he-stands-by-island-strangers/

    'tis an empty vessel that says at any given moment what he thinks will advantage him. A Chinese Room, it's all inputs in, outputs out, with no memory or ratiocination in between. You will recall the concept of the p-zombie, a human without consciousness. I dislike the concept since it leads to concentration camps, but the more I look at Starmer the more I wonder. What the hell is going on in his head? Childlike, emotions always to the fore, mulish and stubborn, yet he wantonly flits from position to position.

    :|
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,835

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    The contrast between year one of Starmer's government and year one of Blair's is quite telling.

    Within the first 12 months Blair had passed many changes that he wanted. Devolution, BoE independence, minimum wage etc etc etc all happened in the first 12 months.

    What the hell has Starmer done? Announcements that planning will be changed. Announcements that this, that or the other will happen.

    Where are the changes? We could have had a new planning system in place by now.

    Starmer is the sort of dull plodder who’d arrange a meeting to discuss a meeting.
    It is also the Cabinet. A lot of those Blair ideas where brought to the table by powerful cabinet members who had spent the opposition years thinking out plans. Absolute no sign of that except for Miliband and probably Streeting.
    I'm inclined to agree with that. I think there is a lot of important stuff bubbling under, but very little to see.

    I think they need to remember "We were elected as Labour, we need to govern as Labour" - not in the sense of caving in to the nutter wing, but in the sense of Wilson's “The Labour party is a moral crusade or it is nothing.”

    I like that we have a real Government for the first time in years, but they are timid little mice.
    I'm not too happy (as chair of my CLP), and interested in whether Corbyn and colleagues come up with something viable and outward-looking (I've no interest in internal wrangling). But an issue is what counts as newsworthy in a society where the press is increasingly unimportant. The way to get coverage seems to be stunts (as epitomised by Ed Davey), and serious initiatives that will take years to form fully pass almost unnoticed, except for special interest groups, who are against them.
    I wonder if there are any stunts that could be used to demonstrate the benefits of a future three way coalition between Labour, the Greens and the new Corbyns working together.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,524
    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

  • TazTaz Posts: 19,607
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Durham Miners Gala today. Giving Durham a wide berth as a consequence.

    If today is a day for avoiding drunk, lairy and potentially belligerent dickheads, I suggest adding Manchester to your itinerary of places to avoid. Full of pillocks in bucket hats and Oasis t-shirts manking it up.
    Following @theuniondivvie's comment last week, I'm off to Sheffield for a few beers with two old friends, one of whom we haven't seen for over ten years.

    We’re off to a barbecue at The Stables by Beamish.

    My wife is having her nails done (how does it take two hours !) and I’m waiting for her drinking home brew and watching pop videos on YouTube.

    Not oasis although I have a bucket had and am ‘mad for it’

    I used to work with a guy whose brother was a Gallagher lookalike. Got some work on it too. Remember seeing his face on a bus. Lad was called Chris Lowe IIrC.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,224
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    The contrast between year one of Starmer's government and year one of Blair's is quite telling.

    Within the first 12 months Blair had passed many changes that he wanted. Devolution, BoE independence, minimum wage etc etc etc all happened in the first 12 months.

    What the hell has Starmer done? Announcements that planning will be changed. Announcements that this, that or the other will happen.

    Where are the changes? We could have had a new planning system in place by now.

    Starmer is the sort of dull plodder who’d arrange a meeting to discuss a meeting.
    It is also the Cabinet. A lot of those Blair ideas where brought to the table by powerful cabinet members who had spent the opposition years thinking out plans. Absolute no sign of that except for Miliband and probably Streeting.
    I'm inclined to agree with that. I think there is a lot of important stuff bubbling under, but very little to see.

    I think they need to remember "We were elected as Labour, we need to govern as Labour" - not in the sense of caving in to the nutter wing, but in the sense of Wilson's “The Labour party is a moral crusade or it is nothing.”

    I like that we have a real Government for the first time in years, but they are timid little mice.
    I'm not too happy (as chair of my CLP), and interested in whether Corbyn and colleagues come up with something viable and outward-looking (I've no interest in internal wrangling). But an issue is what counts as newsworthy in a society where the press is increasingly unimportant. The way to get coverage seems to be stunts (as epitomised by Ed Davey), and serious initiatives that will take years to form fully pass almost unnoticed, except for special interest groups, who are against them.
    On @Mattw 's comment above - I strongly distrust moral crusades. They tend to lead to courses of action which are at best ill-thought-out (e.g. Live Aid). "Because it's the right thing to do" isn't enough; some sort of logic from actions to outcomes is needed.
    "Moral crusade" is very close to "Because we're the good guys". And "Because we're the good guys" leads to outcomes like the Post Office debacle and The Subject Which Must Not Be Named.
    I give you a nod to that. But at present they are missing what I might call "purpose" and "direction".

    The sense I get is that there need to be goals which they will pursue as a lodestar - one is to bring Local Government into its proper place so that it can function effectively.

    I think that could happen more than it has previously, if regional Mayors and local government reform work effectively. At present they are scared.

    If it were Tories, they might put it terms of "proud regional cities" and memories of the Victorian Age and how they built all those marvellous Town Halls (Nottingham, Manchester, Bradford etc) and railway stations. At present the feeling I get is that the Cons are still obsessed with cuts and austerity.

    As I see it, neither has much of a moral vision at present.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,439
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Durham Miners Gala today. Giving Durham a wide berth as a consequence.

    If today is a day for avoiding drunk, lairy and potentially belligerent dickheads, I suggest adding Manchester to your itinerary of places to avoid. Full of pillocks in bucket hats and Oasis t-shirts manking it up.
    Following @theuniondivvie's comment last week, I'm off to Sheffield for a few beers with two old friends, one of whom we haven't seen for over ten years.
    I suppose they'll be all "aving it".
    This reminds me of rhe infamous Harry Enfield sketch - and I see that Oasis's reunion fans are already onto it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDKF8KkD7rE&pp=ygUaa2V2aW4gYW5kIHBlcnJ5IG1hbmNoZXN0ZXI=
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,720
    IanB2 said:

    Fishing said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fishing said:

    I've just come back from ten days in Montenegro. Apart from being marred by various small frustrations like cheating taxi drivers and triple digit temperatures in Podogrica, it was an improbably fascinating trip - a country, like so many in Eastern Europe, apparently split down the middle between following its heart, towards its Slavic brethren Serbia and Russia, and its head, towards NATO and civilised Europe.

    As some commenters seem to appreciate my occasional postcards from foreign parts, I thought I'd share some thoughts:

    - they use the Euro, and this has clearly trapped them in an unsustainably strong currency. Things feel much more expensive than they should for a developing country at the back end of Europe, unemployment is obviously very high (14% officially, youth unemployment 26%, in reality probably significantly higher)
    - Russian influence EVERYWHERE. The most common petrol stations were Lukoil, many Russian banks (Sberbank etc) have branches in the towns, lots of signs in tourist areas where in Russian and the usual quota of Russian men obviously drunk by noon on the beaches
    - but every Montenegrin ministry in the capital flies an EU flag alongside the Montenegrin one, and some fly NATO flags as well. So it's an odd mix. Their national symbol is the double-headed eagle, simultaneously facing west and east, which seems somehow appropriate to the country.
    - the language situation is just as confused. Montenegrin itself is sort of a dialect of Serbian but sort of its own language. It only formally separated from Serbian in the 1990s. Most of the signs use the Latin script but some are in modified Cyrillic and a few are in English.
    - the people I talked to are also a mix - they look Mediterranean rather than Slavic, though their language and culture are obviously basically Serbian. They drive better than you'd expect for a country that's next to Albania, and actually stop at pedestrian crossings, which was unexpected
    - the US embassy in Podgorica is staggeringly ugly and larger than the former embassy in London on Grosvenor Square. For an obscure country of 600k, not a world power of 70m. God knows what Uncle Sam is thinking.
    - the food is good if uninspired - classic Balkan fare of grilled meat, potatoes, sauces, soups, etc.

    Anyway it was a good trip, though unfortunately I had to cut it short because of work. They won't become another Belarus as they are too far - geographically and culturally - from Russia but I will be interested to see if they can maintain their precarious national balancing act over the next couple of decades or if they will embrace the free world with all its problems and disappointments wholeheartedly.

    Never been, but it’s sort of on my list. Isn’t it magnificently scenic, especially those old monasteries in the mountains next to the sea?
    Yes the mountains, forests and beaches are very nice to look at, and the more popular hiking trails are good and well-maintained. Hiking is obviously a popular passtime there, though they charge foreigners a few euros for access to their national parks and parking is expensive.
    And you only get third party insurance if you drive there, and have to buy some sort of basic policy for cash at the border?
    I drove around inland Montenegro (it’s beautiful) and wrote about it for the Gazette. Zero hassle
  • novanova Posts: 858

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    I can understand the view completely, but not sure it will play out that way.

    The polling on the Corbyn party last week suggested that the Lab/Lib/Green block is still pretty solid. For the existing parties, out of all the "won't vote for" combinations, the three biggest numbers were those three parties' voters saying they would never vote Reform.

    The corresponding Ref/Con connection was a lot weaker. I also suspect that the core of Reform voters might be a lot less likely to vote tactically for the Tories - partly because a lot of them are a long way from typical Tories, but also because a strong part of the appeal of Reform is the "anti-establishment" stance.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,607
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fishing said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fishing said:

    I've just come back from ten days in Montenegro. Apart from being marred by various small frustrations like cheating taxi drivers and triple digit temperatures in Podogrica, it was an improbably fascinating trip - a country, like so many in Eastern Europe, apparently split down the middle between following its heart, towards its Slavic brethren Serbia and Russia, and its head, towards NATO and civilised Europe.

    As some commenters seem to appreciate my occasional postcards from foreign parts, I thought I'd share some thoughts:

    - they use the Euro, and this has clearly trapped them in an unsustainably strong currency. Things feel much more expensive than they should for a developing country at the back end of Europe, unemployment is obviously very high (14% officially, youth unemployment 26%, in reality probably significantly higher)
    - Russian influence EVERYWHERE. The most common petrol stations were Lukoil, many Russian banks (Sberbank etc) have branches in the towns, lots of signs in tourist areas where in Russian and the usual quota of Russian men obviously drunk by noon on the beaches
    - but every Montenegrin ministry in the capital flies an EU flag alongside the Montenegrin one, and some fly NATO flags as well. So it's an odd mix. Their national symbol is the double-headed eagle, simultaneously facing west and east, which seems somehow appropriate to the country.
    - the language situation is just as confused. Montenegrin itself is sort of a dialect of Serbian but sort of its own language. It only formally separated from Serbian in the 1990s. Most of the signs use the Latin script but some are in modified Cyrillic and a few are in English.
    - the people I talked to are also a mix - they look Mediterranean rather than Slavic, though their language and culture are obviously basically Serbian. They drive better than you'd expect for a country that's next to Albania, and actually stop at pedestrian crossings, which was unexpected
    - the US embassy in Podgorica is staggeringly ugly and larger than the former embassy in London on Grosvenor Square. For an obscure country of 600k, not a world power of 70m. God knows what Uncle Sam is thinking.
    - the food is good if uninspired - classic Balkan fare of grilled meat, potatoes, sauces, soups, etc.

    Anyway it was a good trip, though unfortunately I had to cut it short because of work. They won't become another Belarus as they are too far - geographically and culturally - from Russia but I will be interested to see if they can maintain their precarious national balancing act over the next couple of decades or if they will embrace the free world with all its problems and disappointments wholeheartedly.

    Never been, but it’s sort of on my list. Isn’t it magnificently scenic, especially those old monasteries in the mountains next to the sea?
    Yes the mountains, forests and beaches are very nice to look at, and the more popular hiking trails are good and well-maintained. Hiking is obviously a popular passtime there, though they charge foreigners a few euros for access to their national parks and parking is expensive.
    And you only get third party insurance if you drive there, and have to buy some sort of basic policy for cash at the border?
    I drove around inland Montenegro (it’s beautiful) and wrote about it for the Gazette. Zero hassle
    Lake Skadar is gorgeous.

    We went to Herceg Novi for a week. Loved Kotor. Fab place. The old walled city is a gem and the old crones selling home made hooch for pennies outside ensured I was well and truly bladdered 👍
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,224
    Shades of Georgian Islington.

    Glasgow Tenement collapses:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c15wd332gl7o
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,156
    edited 11:37AM
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Isn't Morocco a bit too politically unstable for a long-term investment, at least compared to Spain/Portugal?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,627
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Durham Miners Gala today. Giving Durham a wide berth as a consequence.

    If today is a day for avoiding drunk, lairy and potentially belligerent dickheads, I suggest adding Manchester to your itinerary of places to avoid. Full of pillocks in bucket hats and Oasis t-shirts manking it up.
    Following @theuniondivvie's comment last week, I'm off to Sheffield for a few beers with two old friends, one of whom we haven't seen for over ten years.
    I suppose they'll be all "aving it".
    That, I suspect, is their intention.

    Lots of overly Manc accents from people whose weekday accent is probably not like that.

    I am now in a train leaving Manchester. Confusingly, this is also full of people in bucket hats. These turn out to be last night's idiots. Hungover and sunburned and with sore knees from standing in a field for 9 hours and heading home to South Humberside. These fellas are not 'aving it. They have 'ad it.

    Actually, I've just had a chat with two of them and they are very pleasant really. They have the grizzled demeanour of fat northern working class men in their early 40s and the childlike glee of two little boys who have just had the best day ever.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,027
    nova said:

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    I can understand the view completely, but not sure it will play out that way.

    The polling on the Corbyn party last week suggested that the Lab/Lib/Green block is still pretty solid. For the existing parties, out of all the "won't vote for" combinations, the three biggest numbers were those three parties' voters saying they would never vote Reform.

    The corresponding Ref/Con connection was a lot weaker. I also suspect that the core of Reform voters might be a lot less likely to vote tactically for the Tories - partly because a lot of them are a long way from typical Tories, but also because a strong part of the appeal of Reform is the "anti-establishment" stance.
    Yes. Public sector client vote. Will be interesting to see how that bloc survives.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,835
    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Isn't Morocco a bit too politically unstable for a long-term investment, at least compared to Spain/Portugal?
    Are you saying he'll regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of his life.
  • novanova Posts: 858

    nova said:

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    I can understand the view completely, but not sure it will play out that way.

    The polling on the Corbyn party last week suggested that the Lab/Lib/Green block is still pretty solid. For the existing parties, out of all the "won't vote for" combinations, the three biggest numbers were those three parties' voters saying they would never vote Reform.

    The corresponding Ref/Con connection was a lot weaker. I also suspect that the core of Reform voters might be a lot less likely to vote tactically for the Tories - partly because a lot of them are a long way from typical Tories, but also because a strong part of the appeal of Reform is the "anti-establishment" stance.
    Yes. Public sector client vote. Will be interesting to see how that bloc survives.
    Nice Bingo card reply :wink:
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,846
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Tangier is great, it still has the remains of a castle occupied by the British when it was part of Catherine of Braganza's dowry. We went to a great seafood restaurant recommended by our hotelier, no menu, they just served you fish soup, fish tagine and loads of grilled fish. Saveur de Poissons Méditerranée
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,647

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Tangier is great, it still has the remains of a castle occupied by the British when it was part of Catherine of Braganza's dowry. We went to a great seafood restaurant recommended by our hotelier, no menu, they just served you fish soup, fish tagine and loads of grilled fish. Saveur de Poissons Méditerranée
    When I arrived in Tangier for the first time on a ferry from Gibraltar it felt like 'darkest Africa'. Three weeks later, after a long drive round the Atlas mountains and the Sahara, it felt like 'back home in Europe'. Forty years ago, probably hasn't changed much.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,102
    nova said:

    nova said:

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    I can understand the view completely, but not sure it will play out that way.

    The polling on the Corbyn party last week suggested that the Lab/Lib/Green block is still pretty solid. For the existing parties, out of all the "won't vote for" combinations, the three biggest numbers were those three parties' voters saying they would never vote Reform.

    The corresponding Ref/Con connection was a lot weaker. I also suspect that the core of Reform voters might be a lot less likely to vote tactically for the Tories - partly because a lot of them are a long way from typical Tories, but also because a strong part of the appeal of Reform is the "anti-establishment" stance.
    Yes. Public sector client vote. Will be interesting to see how that bloc survives.
    Nice Bingo card reply :wink:
    18% of UK employment is public sector, and that is far from being a solid left leaning block, containing as it does police, armed forces, prisons, etc.

    Obviously the appeal of the LLG block goes way beyond that. Indeed as the Tory and Reform vote is older, may well be a majority of Private sector employment. The Tories have a near negligible share of the vote in working age people.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,156
    If you want the gossip regarding the putative new party (God knows if it'll actually happen), try this as a source, albeit very left-wing: https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/authors/carla-roberts/
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,627

    viewcode said:

    "MIGRATION NATION Now Keir insists he ‘stands by’ sentiment of ‘island of strangers’ warning & says ‘UK must be an integrated society’"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35805873/now-keir-insists-he-stands-by-island-strangers/

    'tis an empty vessel that says at any given moment what he thinks will advantage him. A Chinese Room, it's all inputs in, outputs out, with no memory or ratiocination in between. You will recall the concept of the p-zombie, a human without consciousness. I dislike the concept since it leads to concentration camps, but the more I look at Starmer the more I wonder. What the hell is going on in his head? Childlike, emotions always to the fore, mulish and stubborn, yet he wantonly flits from position to position.

    :|
    Brilliant. Like kneeling, then regretting it, then regretting regretting it.
    It's certainly true that minds can change and we shouldn't fetishise consistency. But it's just very odd behaviour. He appears to attach absolutely no value whatsoever to the words which come out of his mouth.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,687
    viewcode said:

    "MIGRATION NATION Now Keir insists he ‘stands by’ sentiment of ‘island of strangers’ warning & says ‘UK must be an integrated society’"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35805873/now-keir-insists-he-stands-by-island-strangers/

    'tis an empty vessel that says at any given moment what he thinks will advantage him. A Chinese Room, it's all inputs in, outputs out, with no memory or ratiocination in between. You will recall the concept of the p-zombie, a human without consciousness. I dislike the concept since it leads to concentration camps, but the more I look at Starmer the more I wonder. What the hell is going on in his head? Childlike, emotions always to the fore, mulish and stubborn, yet he wantonly flits from position to position.

    Words fail me.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,180

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    And incidentally the public toilet next to that war memorial, which I dutifully used yesterday, has been voted the most beautiful toilet building in the world (which I guess is a relatively low bar?):

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/uredd-rest-area-ureddplassen

    Suspicious lack of interior shots. Pieces of atrophied chewing gum jostling the toilet cubes in the pissoir, toilet roll holders that refuse to dispense toilet roll and an overwhelming smell of Rakfisk?
    They’re normally concrete and stainless steel, and pretty clean and functional.

    The biggest problem they have is dodgy camper van users unloading their chemical toilets into them - the first one I used yesterday in Lofoten was completely blocked and I’d guess that was why. Up here on the tourist trail, the area attracts a fair few numpties, sadly. Not long off the ferry, we were held up waiting to get past a stranded VW camper van, which some bright spark had decided to reverse off the road (or was crap in doing a three pointer) whereupon the rear wheels had sunk into the roadside ditch.
    Just like Scotland. What is it about campervanners? They pay £100k for a vehicle and are too mean to pay £10 to empty their shit cassette in an official facility. I wonder whether, when they are at home, do they shit in a chamber pot and throw the contents over next door’s garden? Rant over.
    They spent the £100k on the van to save money, obviously…

    Agreed, they’re often a nuisance in multiple ways.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,175

    viewcode said:

    "MIGRATION NATION Now Keir insists he ‘stands by’ sentiment of ‘island of strangers’ warning & says ‘UK must be an integrated society’"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35805873/now-keir-insists-he-stands-by-island-strangers/

    'tis an empty vessel that says at any given moment what he thinks will advantage him. A Chinese Room, it's all inputs in, outputs out, with no memory or ratiocination in between. You will recall the concept of the p-zombie, a human without consciousness. I dislike the concept since it leads to concentration camps, but the more I look at Starmer the more I wonder. What the hell is going on in his head? Childlike, emotions always to the fore, mulish and stubborn, yet he wantonly flits from position to position.

    Words fail me.
    It seems they fail Keir.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,175
    Share of Americans saying immigration is good for the country has hit a new high
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1943695330303738328
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,205

    In intervals between looking in her, I'm reading the Guardian and have come across a piece, the first para of which is

    "Thames Water spent at least £136m on the effort to secure emergency funding over 12 months, according to a leaked document that suggests costs outstripped the £130m the struggling utility paid in fines."

    In the meantime bonuses were paid to the top execs.

    While I appreciate that professional advice may well be necessary, what the **** is going on?
    Surely, surely it would be better for the Govt to just seize the company, sack the top brass.... there must be competent people who could replace them .... and just press on with providing the service.

    Nah, seize the company and you need to pay compensation to those you seized it from. Compensation they don't deserve.

    Just stand back, do nothing, say youre going to do nothing and that you're willing to step in if they file for bankruptcy.

    Any time they demand support, just point out the paperwork that is available for bankruptcy proceedings.

    Let them own their own bankruptcy. Then step in.

    Make it abundantly clear you have no problem with Thames going bust and will step in, as according to predetermined procedures, if they do.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,176
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    "MIGRATION NATION Now Keir insists he ‘stands by’ sentiment of ‘island of strangers’ warning & says ‘UK must be an integrated society’"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35805873/now-keir-insists-he-stands-by-island-strangers/

    'tis an empty vessel that says at any given moment what he thinks will advantage him. A Chinese Room, it's all inputs in, outputs out, with no memory or ratiocination in between. You will recall the concept of the p-zombie, a human without consciousness. I dislike the concept since it leads to concentration camps, but the more I look at Starmer the more I wonder. What the hell is going on in his head? Childlike, emotions always to the fore, mulish and stubborn, yet he wantonly flits from position to position.

    Words fail me.
    It seems they fail Keir.
    "I wanted to express the sentiments of Enoch Powell but found myself inadvertently using the language of Enoch Powell to do so, which I deeply regret. But I stand by the sentiments."
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,180
    edited 12:13PM

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    Everyone recommends Marrakesh, but it’s another one of those places that have become too popular, like where I am now. In addition to the damage from the recent earthquake. Try and get across the Atlas Mountains, both to enjoy the dramatic passes and to see some of the characterful places on the south side of it, such as Taroudant, or windy Essouaria on the coast. Or Ouarzazate, where many feature films old and recent are made, but which isn’t as appealingly exotic as its name might suggest. I once spend a week there in February, and that was a mistake.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,276
    Nigelb said:

    Share of Americans saying immigration is good for the country has hit a new high
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1943695330303738328

    Nothing like a dose of fashy, incompetent populism to get folk feeling positive about immigration.
    Perhaps a bracing stint of Nigel might do the same.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,894

    HYUFD said:

    Mel Stride more likely.

    If Badenoch were removed most of her MP backers and former Cleverly backers would back Stride over Jenrick. Probably enough to give him a coronation as Michael Howard got in 2003 to ensure he not Davis replaced IDS.

    Stride can also offer a heavyweight fiscal conservative programme to centrist swing voters. Kemi has proved she can't out war on woke Farage and nor could Jenrick out Farage on stopping the boats and immigration

    Do you believe if you write Mel Stride on here enough times he becomes LOTO?

    If it's not Jenrick I'm a Dutchman.
    There are surely more Dutch Petes than Mexican Petes?
    When in Holland I am Piet!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,180
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Do your research more thoroughly on that weather!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,894
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    I suspect there will be far more people prepared to vote for whoever is most likely to eject Starmer. See the relative approval trajectories of Starmer and Farage.
    So do I.

    The centrist Dad haven that is PB will happily look at who can beat Reform, but in the real world after four more years of this shambles, who knows.
    Things Can Only Get Better!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,835
    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    "MIGRATION NATION Now Keir insists he ‘stands by’ sentiment of ‘island of strangers’ warning & says ‘UK must be an integrated society’"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35805873/now-keir-insists-he-stands-by-island-strangers/

    'tis an empty vessel that says at any given moment what he thinks will advantage him. A Chinese Room, it's all inputs in, outputs out, with no memory or ratiocination in between. You will recall the concept of the p-zombie, a human without consciousness. I dislike the concept since it leads to concentration camps, but the more I look at Starmer the more I wonder. What the hell is going on in his head? Childlike, emotions always to the fore, mulish and stubborn, yet he wantonly flits from position to position.

    :|
    Brilliant. Like kneeling, then regretting it, then regretting regretting it.
    It's certainly true that minds can change and we shouldn't fetishise consistency. But it's just very odd behaviour. He appears to attach absolutely no value whatsoever to the words which come out of his mouth.
    His answers are lawlerly consistent, and actually perfectly reasonable. The problem is they are also incredibly politically naive and completely oblivious to how they will be presented in the media.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,680
    Point of order: If Nigel is being counted separately then surely it is:

    Nigel Farage and his motley bunch of five four three MPs are setting the agenda in a way that Badenoch cannot.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,097

    Nigelb said:

    Share of Americans saying immigration is good for the country has hit a new high
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1943695330303738328

    Nothing like a dose of fashy, incompetent populism to get folk feeling positive about immigration.
    Perhaps a bracing stint of Nigel might do the same.
    The catch is that non-centrists, whether of the right or left, don't have a brilliant record of leaving the stage gracefully.

    Franco's Organic Spanish Democracy collapsed in a fairly neat way, but only once the big man was definitely dead.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,180
    Today was the forecast cloudy day in Arctic Lofoten, before the promised warmth and sunshine of the days following. As it’s turned out, it is cloudy, with a cloud base that looks like about twenty feet, at sea level. Such that everything is shrouded in murky and there’s nothing much to see above upper storey level. So it looks like a quietish day just getting to know the area, after several days on the move. The locals in the village where I am are having some sort of Saturday market day, which consists of a few stalls but mainly everyone getting together in a big tent and eating fish.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,397
    Completely off topic, but I thought some of you might like this photo of a 3-wheeled car:



  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,397
    And some of you might have informed thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of such a car.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,205
    edited 12:32PM
    DoctorG said:

    Gadfly said:

    Oli Fletcher of ‘Farming Explained’ visits one of PB’s regulars at his Cumbrian hill farm…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j65t7TwIunE

    Very well explained, thankyou for sharing
    Thanks. It is always interesting to have a handle upon what contributors do when not posting on PB.

    In addition to farming this contributor is an accomplished historian and has spent much of his life working within local politics and the Yorkshire Dales National Park.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,680
    edited 12:32PM
    viewcode said:

    "MIGRATION NATION Now Keir insists he ‘stands by’ sentiment of ‘island of strangers’ warning & says ‘UK must be an integrated society’"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35805873/now-keir-insists-he-stands-by-island-strangers/

    'tis an empty vessel that says at any given moment what he thinks will advantage him. A Chinese Room, it's all inputs in, outputs out, with no memory or ratiocination in between. You will recall the concept of the p-zombie, a human without consciousness. I dislike the concept since it leads to concentration camps, but the more I look at Starmer the more I wonder. What the hell is going on in his head? Childlike, emotions always to the fore, mulish and stubborn, yet he wantonly flits from position to position.

    I think that's a good description of what I've been trying to express. Young Keir, always doing the right thing round the medical needs of his mother and brother grew up too early, always doing what was needed to get through that day before he had the adult appreciation of why. And the adult appreciation of quite why he was doing what he was doing never fully developed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,102

    And some of you might have informed thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of such a car.

    Having one wheel at the rear makes for better stability than at the front, like the original Morgan.

    Three wheelers used to be popular here as they could be driven on a motorcycle licence, and in the postwar era it was common to have a motorcycle licence but not a car one.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,524
    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Do your research more thoroughly on that weather!
    July and August unpleasantly hot but then I wouldn’t really enjoy Spain in July and august. It’s more about having warm dry weather in feb, march, April and October November as summer here is fine but winter and spring just too wet and windy.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,627

    And some of you might have informed thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of such a car.

    You may or not be aware, but there used to be a well known three wheeled car in the UK: the Robin Reliant. It was the subject of much derision. Its advantages were that it was very cheap and you could drive it on just a motorbike license. It was rumoured to topple over when cornering too fast.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,102
    boulay said:

    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Do your research more thoroughly on that weather!
    July and August unpleasantly hot but then I wouldn’t really enjoy Spain in July and august. It’s more about having warm dry weather in feb, march, April and October November as summer here is fine but winter and spring just too wet and windy.
    I visited Marrakesh in February some years ago. It was cold at night but spring like sunshine in the day. The high Atlas were beautiful too, but even colder at night.

    We had a lovely holiday, but I wouldn't want to actually live there. What would you do all day?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,027
    ...

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    "MIGRATION NATION Now Keir insists he ‘stands by’ sentiment of ‘island of strangers’ warning & says ‘UK must be an integrated society’"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35805873/now-keir-insists-he-stands-by-island-strangers/

    'tis an empty vessel that says at any given moment what he thinks will advantage him. A Chinese Room, it's all inputs in, outputs out, with no memory or ratiocination in between. You will recall the concept of the p-zombie, a human without consciousness. I dislike the concept since it leads to concentration camps, but the more I look at Starmer the more I wonder. What the hell is going on in his head? Childlike, emotions always to the fore, mulish and stubborn, yet he wantonly flits from position to position.

    Words fail me.
    It seems they fail Keir.
    "I wanted to express the sentiments of Enoch Powell but found myself inadvertently using the language of Enoch Powell to do so, which I deeply regret. But I stand by the sentiments."
    And if you don't like those sentiments, I have others to stand by.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,027
    KnightOut said:

    Cookie said:

    And some of you might have informed thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of such a car.

    You may or not be aware, but there used to be a well known three wheeled car in the UK: the Robin Reliant. It was the subject of much derision. Its advantages were that it was very cheap and you could drive it on just a motorbike license. It was rumoured to topple over when cornering too fast.
    Reliant Robin.

    Reliant was the marque. Reliant Robin. Reliant Regal. Reliant Scimitar. Reliant Fox. And so on.

    Stop getting cars wrong.
    I don't know why they didn't put the two wheels at the front.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,894

    KnightOut said:

    Cookie said:

    And some of you might have informed thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of such a car.

    You may or not be aware, but there used to be a well known three wheeled car in the UK: the Robin Reliant. It was the subject of much derision. Its advantages were that it was very cheap and you could drive it on just a motorbike license. It was rumoured to topple over when cornering too fast.
    Reliant Robin.

    Reliant was the marque. Reliant Robin. Reliant Regal. Reliant Scimitar. Reliant Fox. And so on.

    Stop getting cars wrong.
    I don't know why they didn't put the two wheels at the front.

    KnightOut said:

    Cookie said:

    And some of you might have informed thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of such a car.

    You may or not be aware, but there used to be a well known three wheeled car in the UK: the Robin Reliant. It was the subject of much derision. Its advantages were that it was very cheap and you could drive it on just a motorbike license. It was rumoured to topple over when cornering too fast.
    Reliant Robin.

    Reliant was the marque. Reliant Robin. Reliant Regal. Reliant Scimitar. Reliant Fox. And so on.

    Stop getting cars wrong.
    I don't know why they didn't put the two wheels at the front.
    That would have made it a Morgan!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,176
    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1944012965591576795

    Trump will raise EU tariffs to 30% on August 1.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,175

    Nigelb said:

    Share of Americans saying immigration is good for the country has hit a new high
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1943695330303738328

    Nothing like a dose of fashy, incompetent populism to get folk feeling positive about immigration.
    Perhaps a bracing stint of Nigel might do the same.
    I offer no bracing stints.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,156

    And some of you might have informed thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of such a car.

    Fun for those who drive for fun in sunny climes, wouldn't work in UK unless as a track car. I think three wheelers don't need a differential so mechanically less complex. Not good at cornering and badly needs a stronger roll bar.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,894
    Pro_Rata said:

    Point of order: If Nigel is being counted separately then surely it is:

    Nigel Farage and his motley bunch of five four three MPs are setting the agenda in a way that Badenoch cannot.

    The lamestream media allow Brave Sir Nigel to set the agenda. It was similarly true during the Brexit campaign. Nigel in a aircraft, Nigel on a boat on the Thames, Nigel conceding defeat at the In-Out Referendum. Nigel on every conceivable gameshow, Nigel being interviewed by the guy from Gogglebox who ran Parker Steel. The f***** is never off our screens!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,736
    viewcode said:

    "MIGRATION NATION Now Keir insists he ‘stands by’ sentiment of ‘island of strangers’ warning & says ‘UK must be an integrated society’"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35805873/now-keir-insists-he-stands-by-island-strangers/

    'tis an empty vessel that says at any given moment what he thinks will advantage him. A Chinese Room, it's all inputs in, outputs out, with no memory or ratiocination in between. You will recall the concept of the p-zombie, a human without consciousness. I dislike the concept since it leads to concentration camps, but the more I look at Starmer the more I wonder. What the hell is going on in his head? Childlike, emotions always to the fore, mulish and stubborn, yet he wantonly flits from position to position.

    Odd. That description could well apply to Mr Trump, but no two men could be more different.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,180
    boulay said:

    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Do your research more thoroughly on that weather!
    July and August unpleasantly hot but then I wouldn’t really enjoy Spain in July and august. It’s more about having warm dry weather in feb, march, April and October November as summer here is fine but winter and spring just too wet and windy.
    Like I say, do compare the winter weather in Morocco with that in southern Spain/Portugal….
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,814
    Woakes is currently 4/363 for the series. In England. Surely, surely, England have better than that. Surely, surely, he is not going down under.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,627
    edited 12:53PM
    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    "MIGRATION NATION Now Keir insists he ‘stands by’ sentiment of ‘island of strangers’ warning & says ‘UK must be an integrated society’"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35805873/now-keir-insists-he-stands-by-island-strangers/

    'tis an empty vessel that says at any given moment what he thinks will advantage him. A Chinese Room, it's all inputs in, outputs out, with no memory or ratiocination in between. You will recall the concept of the p-zombie, a human without consciousness. I dislike the concept since it leads to concentration camps, but the more I look at Starmer the more I wonder. What the hell is going on in his head? Childlike, emotions always to the fore, mulish and stubborn, yet he wantonly flits from position to position.

    Odd. That description could well apply to Mr Trump, but no two men could be more different.
    They both lack originality of thought. Their worldviews have been imprinted onto them. The difference is who and what are doing the imprinting.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,630

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1944012965591576795

    Trump will raise EU tariffs to 30% on August 1.

    Got to ask who upset him first thing this morning. It also applies to Mexico which will make things fun...

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,835
    DavidL said:

    Woakes is currently 4/363 for the series. In England. Surely, surely, England have better than that. Surely, surely, he is not going down under.

    Logon to pb. Find people complaining about the wokes yet again. Time to watch the tennis.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,736

    And some of you might have informed thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of such a car.

    You have to open the bonnet to kick-start the engine?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,924
    edited 12:56PM

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    That's right, up to a point. But if you end up voting for someone you don't much like, you'll spend the following 5 years grumbling about it, which ultimately (extrapolating to the general population) is bad for democracy, and leads to parties like Reform. There needs to be an element of voting for whom you like, regardless of how you think other people will vote.

    I think one should first decide if one clearly prefers a party, and if so vote for it. If one doesn't have much preference between two or three, and dislikes another option, than vote tactically.
    Yes. all good points. However; take me as an example, traditionally a One Nation Tory, now voting Labour.

    Normally I vote Tory, but in the next election even more than that I vote against Reform.

    Will I know when I vote in 2029 whether a Tory vote shores up a Reform minority government, in which case I would vote differently, or if the Tories would support anything but Reform in which case they are on the list of possibles, or something else.

    So in many seats there are two tactical issues: Who is the party that can beat Reform; secondly, is a Tory vote in fact a Reform supporting vote when it comes to alliances.

    As I have said before, in Cumbria there are 5 seats (+Farron's which is different). In 2019 all were Tory; 2024 all went Labour; currently all are projected for Reform. What, in Cumbria, is the right anti-Reform vote?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,894

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1944012965591576795

    Trump will raise EU tariffs to 30% on August 1.

    How does he find the time? He and Melania were saving flood buried children in Texas this morning.

    Surely even you realise now the man is out of his box. Carve his gurning face into Mount Rushmore, give him a Nobel Peace Prize. Just make him go! Mad as a March Hare and the Republicans in Congress are investigating Biden's age related neurological issues. At least Biden learned to read and write.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,224
    edited 1:02PM

    And some of you might have informed thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of such a car.

    I'm sorry. That is a Vanderhall Venice, which is a Yankobloat, and everything a 3-wheeler should probably not be. It is the Ford Ranger of 3-wheeler sports cars.

    It has a 1500cc engine, delivering 185hp. WTF?
    It weighs 3/4 of a tonne. WTFF?
    It is front wheel drive. WTFFF?
    It has an automatic gearbox. AUTOMATIC GEARBOX? !!. WTFFFFFFFFFF?

    This is what a real 3-wheeler sports car looks like. Motorcycle powertrain, sequential gearbox, weighs about 400kg - I want, at some point, maybe.
    http://shop.trikingsportscars.co.uk/product/triking-comprehensive-kit/

    Review of Vanwall Venice: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/review-the-vanderhall-venice-reminds-us-that-driving-should-be-fun/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,984

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Tangier is great, it still has the remains of a castle occupied by the British when it was part of Catherine of Braganza's dowry. We went to a great seafood restaurant recommended by our hotelier, no menu, they just served you fish soup, fish tagine and loads of grilled fish. Saveur de Poissons Méditerranée
    English controlled 1661 to 1684, and then of course there was the International Zone 1925 to 1940 and 1945 to 1956 (Spanish occupation 1940-1945).
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,156
    edited 1:06PM
    You have until July 24 to register for Bluesky without age-id

    https://bsky.app/profile/mikestabile.bsky.social/post/3ltmwsd4wfs2h

    (You also have until July 22nd to register at 10% off for the RSS conference in Edinburgh in September, but that's probably not so interesting)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,870
    Nigelb said:

    Share of Americans saying immigration is good for the country has hit a new high
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1943695330303738328

    They need to split that question between legal immigration and illegal immigration.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,617

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Tangier is great, it still has the remains of a castle occupied by the British when it was part of Catherine of Braganza's dowry. We went to a great seafood restaurant recommended by our hotelier, no menu, they just served you fish soup, fish tagine and loads of grilled fish. Saveur de Poissons Méditerranée
    When I arrived in Tangier for the first time on a ferry from Gibraltar it felt like 'darkest Africa'. Three weeks later, after a long drive round the Atlas mountains and the Sahara, it felt like 'back home in Europe'. Forty years ago, probably hasn't changed much.
    Old Tangier still feels a little like that. The new town not at all.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,870
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fishing said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fishing said:

    I've just come back from ten days in Montenegro. Apart from being marred by various small frustrations like cheating taxi drivers and triple digit temperatures in Podogrica, it was an improbably fascinating trip - a country, like so many in Eastern Europe, apparently split down the middle between following its heart, towards its Slavic brethren Serbia and Russia, and its head, towards NATO and civilised Europe.

    As some commenters seem to appreciate my occasional postcards from foreign parts, I thought I'd share some thoughts:

    - they use the Euro, and this has clearly trapped them in an unsustainably strong currency. Things feel much more expensive than they should for a developing country at the back end of Europe, unemployment is obviously very high (14% officially, youth unemployment 26%, in reality probably significantly higher)
    - Russian influence EVERYWHERE. The most common petrol stations were Lukoil, many Russian banks (Sberbank etc) have branches in the towns, lots of signs in tourist areas where in Russian and the usual quota of Russian men obviously drunk by noon on the beaches
    - but every Montenegrin ministry in the capital flies an EU flag alongside the Montenegrin one, and some fly NATO flags as well. So it's an odd mix. Their national symbol is the double-headed eagle, simultaneously facing west and east, which seems somehow appropriate to the country.
    - the language situation is just as confused. Montenegrin itself is sort of a dialect of Serbian but sort of its own language. It only formally separated from Serbian in the 1990s. Most of the signs use the Latin script but some are in modified Cyrillic and a few are in English.
    - the people I talked to are also a mix - they look Mediterranean rather than Slavic, though their language and culture are obviously basically Serbian. They drive better than you'd expect for a country that's next to Albania, and actually stop at pedestrian crossings, which was unexpected
    - the US embassy in Podgorica is staggeringly ugly and larger than the former embassy in London on Grosvenor Square. For an obscure country of 600k, not a world power of 70m. God knows what Uncle Sam is thinking.
    - the food is good if uninspired - classic Balkan fare of grilled meat, potatoes, sauces, soups, etc.

    Anyway it was a good trip, though unfortunately I had to cut it short because of work. They won't become another Belarus as they are too far - geographically and culturally - from Russia but I will be interested to see if they can maintain their precarious national balancing act over the next couple of decades or if they will embrace the free world with all its problems and disappointments wholeheartedly.

    Never been, but it’s sort of on my list. Isn’t it magnificently scenic, especially those old monasteries in the mountains next to the sea?
    Yes the mountains, forests and beaches are very nice to look at, and the more popular hiking trails are good and well-maintained. Hiking is obviously a popular passtime there, though they charge foreigners a few euros for access to their national parks and parking is expensive.
    And you only get third party insurance if you drive there, and have to buy some sort of basic policy for cash at the border?
    I drove around inland Montenegro (it’s beautiful) and wrote about it for the Gazette. Zero hassle
    When are you going to visit those inbred hillbillies you're interested in ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,180
    edited 1:14PM
    In other sporting news, today sees the opening ceremony of this year’s Island Games, on Orkney this time, where sportspeople who live on islands compete in a range of Olympic sports. The IOW has sent a team, along with, from the British Isles: Shetland, Orkney, Man, Jersey, Guernsey, Sark, Alderney, Western Isles, and Anglesey. And the Falklands, Gibraltar, Bermuda, St Helena and the Caymans, from British interests, or formerly so, from around the world. So very much a British led affair, but also with teams from Menorca, the Faroes, Greenland, Gotland, Gozo, and a few smaller islands around Norway, Estonia and Sweden. Go team IOW!

    I am not sure why Greenland can qualify but mainland UK not, although given the populations that seems a fair position. After all, zoom out and we all live on an island.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,627
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    At what point does anti Reform tactical voting enter the fray ?

    It will be a huge issue in the next election. There will be a major battle in hundreds of seats as to what is the right anti-Reform vote.
    That's right, up to a point. But if you end up voting for someone you don't much like, you'll spend the following 5 years grumbling about it, which ultimately (extrapolating to the general population) is bad for democracy, and leads to parties like Reform. There needs to be an element of voting for whom you like, regardless of how you think other people will vote.

    I think one should first decide if one clearly prefers a party, and if so vote for it. If one doesn't have much preference between two or three, and dislikes another option, than vote tactically.
    Yes. all good points. However; take me as an example, traditionally a One Nation Tory, now voting Labour.

    Normally I vote Tory, but in the next election even more than that I vote against Reform.

    Will I know when I vote in 2029 whether a Tory vote shores up a Reform minority government, in which case I would vote differently, or if the Tories would support anything but Reform in which case they are on the list of possibles, or something else.

    So in many seats there are two tactical issues: Who is the party that can beat Reform; secondly, is a Tory vote in fact a Reform supporting vote when it comes to alliances.

    As I have said before, in Cumbria there are 5 seats (+Farron's which is different). In 2019 all were Tory; 2024 all went Labour; currently all are projected for Reform. What, in Cumbria, is the right anti-Reform vote?
    Democracy's great, but there's only so much influence, realistically, an individual vote can have on who the government is. Our system is to a large extent one of viting against the party one likes least. There is something to be said for this. But the USA shows where this leads. I think, all things considered, I am with Nick P here: a system which encourages us to vote for the party we like the most, rather than against the one we like the least, has (despite your valid concerns), more to recommend it than the reverse. Which for me is STV.
    Though I am far from one-eyed about this: all systems have strengths and weaknesses.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,626
    viewcode said:

    You have until July 24 to register for Bluesky without age-id

    https://bsky.app/profile/mikestabile.bsky.social/post/3ltmwsd4wfs2h

    (You also have until July 22nd to register at 10% off for the RSS conference in Edinburgh in September, but that's probably not so interesting)

    Does this apply to X aswell ?

    I can see this online safety bill causing huge problems.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,924

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Tangier is great, it still has the remains of a castle occupied by the British when it was part of Catherine of Braganza's dowry. We went to a great seafood restaurant recommended by our hotelier, no menu, they just served you fish soup, fish tagine and loads of grilled fish. Saveur de Poissons Méditerranée
    English controlled 1661 to 1684, and then of course there was the International Zone 1925 to 1940 and 1945 to 1956 (Spanish occupation 1940-1945).
    Pepys sat on the Tangier committee following it becoming English, and after the diary period visited it and kept a brief diary, which has been published. He had however lost his genius of 1660-1669.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,524
    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Do your research more thoroughly on that weather!
    July and August unpleasantly hot but then I wouldn’t really enjoy Spain in July and august. It’s more about having warm dry weather in feb, march, April and October November as summer here is fine but winter and spring just too wet and windy.
    Like I say, do compare the winter weather in Morocco with that in southern Spain/Portugal….
    I did google the annual weather in Marrakech and Ibiza as the two main choices and Marrakech was definitely better in the winter than Ibiza. It’s not really that important though and no huge rush to decide.
  • And some of you might have informed thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of such a car.

    The only real advantage is getting around licencing laws. It used to be possible in Britain to drive a three-wheel vehicle on a motorcycle licence, which were at one point more common than car licences. That lead to quite a few three wheelers being built (yes, like the infamous Reliant Robin).

    Unfortunately, that loophole was shut some years ago. Now a motorcycle licence only covers three wheelers where the two closes wheels are no more than 460mm apart, beyond that you need a car licence.

    Which leads to the farcical situation where some three wheel motorcycles, and they are clearly motorcycles, can be legally ridden by car drivers but not someone with just a motorcycle licence.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,627
    FPT:
    Dura_Ace said:

    Cookie said:

    Not a glowing endorsement...

    Sir Mo Farah: ‘My children are much safer in Qatar than London’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/11/mo-farah-interview-qatar/

    I wonder if any of his children are female?

    I hadn't really thought much about Qatar prior to the Qatar football world cup, except inasmuch as it is useful to have a country starting with a Q, even if it then refuses to follow it up with a u, and I really don't know why we don't just transliterate it with a 'c' given transliterations are arbitrary. Anyway.
    What I concluded from the WC was that Qatar (or Catar) is a horrible shithole runby religious maniacs and possibly the least visually appealing country on earth. So from a sportswashing perspective, it may not have been a massive success.
    Qatar starts with ق (the letter qaf) which has a more uvular pronuniciation that an English 'c' so 'q' is the preferred transliteration.
    (also thanks to @JohnLilburne, who made a similar point)
    ... so is this similar to the 'ch' in 'loch'?

    I am now amusing myself by making a guttural back of the throat sound at the start of 'Qatar'. Happily, it brings to mind the word 'catarrh'.

    The communists are out in force in Sheffield. They look young and weedy and disspirited.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,180
    boulay said:

    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Do your research more thoroughly on that weather!
    July and August unpleasantly hot but then I wouldn’t really enjoy Spain in July and august. It’s more about having warm dry weather in feb, march, April and October November as summer here is fine but winter and spring just too wet and windy.
    Like I say, do compare the winter weather in Morocco with that in southern Spain/Portugal….
    I did google the annual weather in Marrakech and Ibiza as the two main choices and Marrakech was definitely better in the winter than Ibiza. It’s not really that important though and no huge rush to decide.
    Of an evening in winter, I’d rather be in Seville than Marrakech, just based on the weather.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,719

    Nigelb said:

    Share of Americans saying immigration is good for the country has hit a new high
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1943695330303738328

    They need to split that question between legal immigration and illegal immigration.
    It doesn't seem to matter to trump.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,618
    boulay said:

    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:



    Am now in a 3-way mix between spending time in our house in France, visiting places with the children that I know they will enjoy, before they’re too old (Paris next month, Morocco in October), doing bits of tourism on the back of work trips, and going on random jaunts with my country-collecting friend. The Balkan’s, as a driving trip, is on the visit with children list.

    My friend has mooted Cote D’Ivoire in January (he tends to co-opt me for the Francophone countries). Anyone been?

    My son-in-law is our incoming ambassador to Morocco, so we'll be spending Christmas and New Year there. Tips on things to see welcome!

    In general I think owning a holiday place is a two-edged sword - nice to rely on it, but as you've found it tends to pull one back to revisiting the same place.
    We’ve just about found the right balance. We’re going to start letting it soon, and that’ll mean we can generally focus on going there out of season. At least until we’ve installed a swimming pool. It’s been unpleasantly hot in central France so far this summer, too frequently in the mid-high 30s.

    I think I’ll encourage my children to marry future ambassadors. Our Morocco trip isn’t the first time in the country but it’ll be our first visit to Tangier and Fes. Particularly looking forward to Tangier because I really enjoyed Algiers a few years ago and it looks like a similar vibe but with more tourist infrastructure. Last time we did Marrakech, the Atlas, desert and Essaouira.
    I’ve been considering buying a place in Marrakech rather than Spain/Portugal. A few months more good weather, not much further and seems v good value for money compared to Spain/Portugal at the moment. Also just has that more exotic edge where’s the other two have become a bit anaemic I find.

    Do your research more thoroughly on that weather!
    July and August unpleasantly hot but then I wouldn’t really enjoy Spain in July and august. It’s more about having warm dry weather in feb, march, April and October November as summer here is fine but winter and spring just too wet and windy.
    Like I say, do compare the winter weather in Morocco with that in southern Spain/Portugal….
    I did google the annual weather in Marrakech and Ibiza as the two main choices and Marrakech was definitely better in the winter than Ibiza. It’s not really that important though and no huge rush to decide.
    It's a glorified timeshare, and you would not buy a timeshare even with stolen gold.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,719
    KnightOut said:

    Cookie said:

    And some of you might have informed thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of such a car.

    You may or not be aware, but there used to be a well known three wheeled car in the UK: the Robin Reliant. It was the subject of much derision. Its advantages were that it was very cheap and you could drive it on just a motorbike license. It was rumoured to topple over when cornering too fast.
    Reliant Robin.

    Reliant was the marque. Reliant Robin. Reliant Regal. Reliant Scimitar. Reliant Fox. And so on.

    Stop getting cars wrong.
    I thought they were called plastic pigs...
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