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SystemSystem Posts: 12,681
edited January 2015 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Well done to ICM and Ipsos-MORI for now providing England only numbers

Wikipedia has new polling table – ENGLAND ONLY – where CON led by 11.5 at GE10. 3 pollsters now providing this data pic.twitter.com/8U68NH31jx

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Comments

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    What we need now is for electoral calculus to provide a prediction table for England.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,165
    But do we know with which accent the polling respondents were questioned?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    This is appalling:

    An elderly woman was left on the floor at a care home for up to ten minutes because a nurse was praying, an inquest heard.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/9162051/Woman-died-after-Muslim-nurse-refused-to-help-as-he-was-praying.html
  • isamisam Posts: 42,607
    FARAGE WINS SOUTH THANET

    ...hustings

    "NIGEL Farage enjoyed an encouraging evening when he came out on top in last night’s Ramsgate Round Table question time.

    The Ukip leader overturned a huge deficit in the entry poll at The Pavilion in Broadstairs to finish ahead of his rivals for the Thanet South parliamentary seat on the night.


    Some 120 were in the audience, with 49 per cent of them showing their support for Mr Mackinlay on arrival and just 15.7 per cent backing Mr Farage

    After brief opening speeches from each candidate and a series of questions, however, an ‘exit poll’ put Mr Farage on 36.9 per cent and Mr Mackinlay on 33.7 per cent."


    http://www.thanetgazette.co.uk/Nigel-Farage-wins-Thanet-South-hustings-event/story-25907367-detail/story.html
  • The_WoodpeckerThe_Woodpecker Posts: 508
    £30 to get in. Dress code. Not all candidates present. Don't read too much into it!
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited January 2015
    Most interesting feature of the England Only polls is to see that the Greens are consistently ahead of the Liberals and have been since mid-December.

    Perhaps the discussion should now be about when the Green-UKIP crossover will happen.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Apparently there's rising anti-Semitism in Sweden, with many Jews very afraid of getting attacked:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8BqRdlCIAADg7D.png

    So there's been an upswing in anti-Semitism over the last decade or two in France, the UK and Sweden. I wonder what the common denominator is?
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 969
    Final call for 2015 Election Game - entries close 7pm today

    http://www.electiongame.co.uk/greece15/

    http://www.electiongame.co.uk/2015-leaders-finance/

    Many thanks,

    DC
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Queen Elizabeth II would be evicted from Buckingham Palace and moved into a council house in plans to abolish the monarchy and build more social housing, as suggested by the Greens leader.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/we-would-evict-queen-from-buckingham-palace-and-allocate-her-council-house-say-greens-10000370.html
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Margie in Tel Aviv ‏@MargieInTelAviv 9m9 minutes ago
    10,000+ Palestinians fm Jerusalem granted Israeli citizenship "prefer the hell of the Jews to the paradise of Hamas" http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3407/palestinians-israeli-citizenship …

    Not so surprising really if one knows the Middle East. As an Israeli might say "boker tov!". literally "good morning" but with the exclamation mark, "wake up and smell the coffee".
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Socrates said:

    Apparently there's rising anti-Semitism in Sweden, with many Jews very afraid of getting attacked:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8BqRdlCIAADg7D.png
    I wonder what the common denominator is?

    Dickheads obsessed by race and religion?

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    saddened said:

    Socrates said:

    Apparently there's rising anti-Semitism in Sweden, with many Jews very afraid of getting attacked:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8BqRdlCIAADg7D.png
    I wonder what the common denominator is?

    Dickheads obsessed by race and religion?

    There has always been a high level of anti-semitism in Sweden, which was keen to go on supplying Hitler even as the final collapse was happening.

    There is now an increasing Muslim population to stir the pot even further.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    edited January 2015
    Socrates said:

    Apparently there's rising anti-Semitism in Sweden, with many Jews very afraid of getting attacked:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8BqRdlCIAADg7D.png

    So there's been an upswing in anti-Semitism over the last decade or two in France, the UK and Sweden. I wonder what the common denominator is?

    Is the common denominator Anti EU parties with supporters and/or leaders with more Anti-Semitic than other parties?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2652874/Jean-Marie-Le-Pen-accused-anti-Semitism.html

    http://theconversation.com/british-voters-open-to-a-jewish-prime-minister-but-some-are-more-welcoming-than-others-36611

    http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/6348088
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,907
    CarlottaVance said:

    Queen Elizabeth II would be evicted from Buckingham Palace and moved into a council house in plans to abolish the monarchy and build more social housing, as suggested by the Greens leader.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/we-would-evict-queen-from-buckingham-palace-and-allocate-her-council-house-say-greens-10000370.html

    Hat-tip to Sue Townsend? :)

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,907
    saddened said:

    Socrates said:

    Apparently there's rising anti-Semitism in Sweden, with many Jews very afraid of getting attacked:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8BqRdlCIAADg7D.png
    I wonder what the common denominator is?

    Dickheads obsessed by race and religion?

    And cartoons?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,607
    The_Woodpecker said:

    £30 to get in. Dress code. Not all candidates present. Don't read too much into it!

    Would have been a thread header on here if Farage had gone in with a massive majority which was wiped out after they heard the candidates speak

    Al Murray not being there inconsequential
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,907
    Opinion polls... must have opinion polls :)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited January 2015
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    Apparently there's rising anti-Semitism in Sweden, with many Jews very afraid of getting attacked:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8BqRdlCIAADg7D.png

    So there's been an upswing in anti-Semitism over the last decade or two in France, the UK and Sweden. I wonder what the common denominator is?

    Is the common denominator Anti EU parties with supporters and/or leaders with more Anti-Semitic than other parties?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2652874/Jean-Marie-Le-Pen-accused-anti-Semitism.html

    http://theconversation.com/british-voters-open-to-a-jewish-prime-minister-but-some-are-more-welcoming-than-others-36611

    http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/6348088
    No, its because there is an increase in anti-semitism throughout Europe, including the UK. The whole continent, it seems, can't grovel enough to the Muslim threat. Now some European leaders cant get to Riyadh quick enough to kiss arse and possibly, negotiate another arms contract.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    CarlottaVance said:

    Queen Elizabeth II would be evicted from Buckingham Palace and moved into a council house in plans to abolish the monarchy and build more social housing, as suggested by the Greens leader.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/we-would-evict-queen-from-buckingham-palace-and-allocate-her-council-house-say-greens-10000370.html

    I'm guessing that bill wouldn't get royal assent.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    edited January 2015
    On topic where Lord Ashcroft leads the others follow.

    The Good Lord further continues to show that his polling is the Gold Standard.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Opinion polls... must have opinion polls :)

    Only YouGov tonight I think.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    CarlottaVance said:

    Queen Elizabeth II would be evicted from Buckingham Palace and moved into a council house in plans to abolish the monarchy and build more social housing, as suggested by the Greens leader.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/we-would-evict-queen-from-buckingham-palace-and-allocate-her-council-house-say-greens-10000370.html

    The funny thing is watching Establishment types talk about this as if it is some sort of obnoxious lunacy. It would actually be well supported on the left and centre of politics. The monarchy has far less support than the BBC and MSM would have you believe with something like a third of those in England and Wales and perhaps half of those in Scotland quite happy to see it abolished.

    When the titles are abolished it is only fair that the wealth associated with those titles should be returned to the public trust. This should happen to all the aristocracy, any wealth which cannot be independently verified as entirely self-generated should be removed. Lizzie Saxe-Coburg-Gothe and her like should be happy to be offered a council house.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,907
    MikeK said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    Apparently there's rising anti-Semitism in Sweden, with many Jews very afraid of getting attacked:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8BqRdlCIAADg7D.png

    So there's been an upswing in anti-Semitism over the last decade or two in France, the UK and Sweden. I wonder what the common denominator is?

    Is the common denominator Anti EU parties with supporters and/or leaders with more Anti-Semitic than other parties?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2652874/Jean-Marie-Le-Pen-accused-anti-Semitism.html

    http://theconversation.com/british-voters-open-to-a-jewish-prime-minister-but-some-are-more-welcoming-than-others-36611

    http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/6348088
    No, its because there is an increase in anti-semitism throughout Europe, including the UK. The whole continent, it seems, can't grovel enough to the Muslim threat. Now some European leaders cant get to Riyadh quick enough to kiss arse and possibly, negotiate another arms contract.
    Obama cuts short trip to India to see the new Saudi King.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TheScreamingEagles
    People whose life is not going to their expectations look for someone else to blame.
    The result is fairly predictable, shouting, screaming and eventually sharpened stick usage.

    ( sociologists may give more elaborate explanations, but it boils down to the above )
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Opinion polls... must have opinion polls :)

    Only YouGov tonight I think.
    I'll do my best to encourage a crossover ;)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,907
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Opinion polls... must have opinion polls :)

    Only YouGov tonight I think.
    Ta.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    Dair said:



    When the titles are abolished it is only fair that the wealth associated with those titles should be returned to the public trust. This should happen to all the aristocracy, any wealth which cannot be independently verified as entirely self-generated should be removed. Lizzie Saxe-Coburg-Gothe and her like should be happy to be offered a council house.

    So a retroactive 100% inheritance tax for them?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,293
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    On topic where Lord Ashcroft the others follow.

    The Good Lord further continues to show that his polling is the Gold Standard.

    I see....he's the Gold Standard because of the outlier poll showing the Conservatives 6% ahead.

    The REAL Gold Standard (as it used to be) shows a 7% swing in England from the Conservatives to Labour - how many Tory losses does that equal ?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    isam said:


    "NIGEL Farage enjoyed an encouraging evening when he came out on top in last night’s Ramsgate Round Table question time.

    Excellent to see Ramsgate RT hosting such a high profile event. The one I joined in Gosport about 20 years ago has since closed through lack of numbers. It's a fantastic institution. Sounds like it was a decent money-spinner for them too.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Queen Elizabeth II would be evicted from Buckingham Palace and moved into a council house in plans to abolish the monarchy and build more social housing, as suggested by the Greens leader.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/we-would-evict-queen-from-buckingham-palace-and-allocate-her-council-house-say-greens-10000370.html

    Hat-tip to Sue Townsend? :)

    Thats nothing, the Greens also want to close down major businesses and firms and return to cottage industries. How you like working on your loom, Sunil. ;)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited January 2015
    MikeK said:

    saddened said:

    Socrates said:

    Apparently there's rising anti-Semitism in Sweden, with many Jews very afraid of getting attacked:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8BqRdlCIAADg7D.png
    I wonder what the common denominator is?

    Dickheads obsessed by race and religion?

    There has always been a high level of anti-semitism in Sweden, which was keen to go on supplying Hitler even as the final collapse was happening.

    There is now an increasing Muslim population to stir the pot even further.
    Is that really true?

    Wallenberg (in conjunction with the Swedish government) probably saved more Jews from extermination than any other individual.

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005211

    And the Swedish government actively helped protect the Danish Jews.

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24427637

    I suspect the problem of Anti-semitism is quite different in origin.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    RobD said:

    Dair said:



    When the titles are abolished it is only fair that the wealth associated with those titles should be returned to the public trust. This should happen to all the aristocracy, any wealth which cannot be independently verified as entirely self-generated should be removed. Lizzie Saxe-Coburg-Gothe and her like should be happy to be offered a council house.

    So a retroactive 100% inheritance tax for them?
    Not really. The argument is that the wealth is associated with the title and not the individual. If they can verify that some of the wealth was not generated by lands and benefits associated with the title (or indeed inherited from ancestors where it had not been generated by the lands and benefits) then they should be free to keep it.

    But for the Duke of Westminster and his ilk, the Queen and her ilk, the billions should be returned to the people.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:



    When the titles are abolished it is only fair that the wealth associated with those titles should be returned to the public trust. This should happen to all the aristocracy, any wealth which cannot be independently verified as entirely self-generated should be removed. Lizzie Saxe-Coburg-Gothe and her like should be happy to be offered a council house.

    So a retroactive 100% inheritance tax for them?
    Not really. The argument is that the wealth is associated with the title and not the individual. If they can verify that some of the wealth was not generated by lands and benefits associated with the title (or indeed inherited from ancestors where it had not been generated by the lands and benefits) then they should be free to keep it.

    But for the Duke of Westminster and his ilk, the Queen and her ilk, the billions should be returned to the people.
    Trying to prove exactly what fraction of money was generate due to their position, as opposed to inherited, or generated from investments which were inherited (probably the vast majority of the money nowadays), will be very difficult.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Smarmeron said:

    @TheScreamingEagles
    People whose life is not going to their expectations look for someone else to blame.
    The result is fairly predictable, shouting, screaming and eventually sharpened stick usage.

    ( sociologists may give more elaborate explanations, but it boils down to the above )

    Blaming the whole tribe for the crimes of a segment of the tribe. Deciding that the whole tribe is incorrigible and incompatible with the host nation, or that it is impractical to identify the "good ones", so the only or safest solution is to expel the lot of them, or worse.

    Weren't a few people here saying that about Muslims a week or two ago?
  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    Disgraceful behaviour from the Green Leader. Whether or not you are a republican, to take this attitude to the Queen personally after over sixty years of public service is totally wrong

    I say give Green Leader a little tower in Lusaka.

    "Give The Queen A Council House, Say Greens
    The Green party leader says she would scrap the monarchy and build more council houses - giving one to the Queen if she needed it."

    http://news.sky.com/story/1414174/give-the-queen-a-council-house-say-greens
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    RobD said:

    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:



    When the titles are abolished it is only fair that the wealth associated with those titles should be returned to the public trust. This should happen to all the aristocracy, any wealth which cannot be independently verified as entirely self-generated should be removed. Lizzie Saxe-Coburg-Gothe and her like should be happy to be offered a council house.

    So a retroactive 100% inheritance tax for them?
    Not really. The argument is that the wealth is associated with the title and not the individual. If they can verify that some of the wealth was not generated by lands and benefits associated with the title (or indeed inherited from ancestors where it had not been generated by the lands and benefits) then they should be free to keep it.

    But for the Duke of Westminster and his ilk, the Queen and her ilk, the billions should be returned to the people.
    Trying to prove exactly what fraction of money was generate due to their position, as opposed to inherited, or generated from investments which were inherited (probably the vast majority of the money nowadays), will be very difficult.
    I don't feel sorry for the difficulties they would face.

    Their inconvenience would be a price worth paying for the introduction of Democracy to the Republic.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:



    When the titles are abolished it is only fair that the wealth associated with those titles should be returned to the public trust. This should happen to all the aristocracy, any wealth which cannot be independently verified as entirely self-generated should be removed. Lizzie Saxe-Coburg-Gothe and her like should be happy to be offered a council house.

    So a retroactive 100% inheritance tax for them?
    Not really. The argument is that the wealth is associated with the title and not the individual. If they can verify that some of the wealth was not generated by lands and benefits associated with the title (or indeed inherited from ancestors where it had not been generated by the lands and benefits) then they should be free to keep it.

    But for the Duke of Westminster and his ilk, the Queen and her ilk, the billions should be returned to the people.
    Trying to prove exactly what fraction of money was generate due to their position, as opposed to inherited, or generated from investments which were inherited (probably the vast majority of the money nowadays), will be very difficult.
    I don't feel sorry for the difficulties they would face.

    Their inconvenience would be a price worth paying for the introduction of Democracy to the Republic.
    I didn't say anything about the difficulties they would face, I'm talking about the difficulty in actually determining what monies were generate due to their title. Unless you are talking about arbitrarily deciding that it is all associated with the title, and seizing the lot.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited January 2015
    foxinsoxuk said:

    MikeK said:

    saddened said:

    Socrates said:

    Apparently there's rising anti-Semitism in Sweden, with many Jews very afraid of getting attacked:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8BqRdlCIAADg7D.png
    I wonder what the common denominator is?

    Dickheads obsessed by race and religion?

    There has always been a high level of anti-semitism in Sweden, which was keen to go on supplying Hitler even as the final collapse was happening.

    There is now an increasing Muslim population to stir the pot even further.
    Is that really true?

    Wallenberg (in conjunction with the Swedish government) probably saved more Jews from extermination than any other individual.

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005211

    And the Swedish government actively helped protect the Danish Jews.

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24427637

    I suspect the problem of Anti-semitism is quite different in origin.
    Oh it's true enough and Wallenberg soon found that Swedish government support was very slender indeed, quickly assuming he was dead, without any follow up.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2154901/Neutral-Sweden-allowed-Nazis-use-railways-occupy-Norway--transfer-Jews-death-camps-new-book-claims.html
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    RobD said:

    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:



    When the titles are abolished it is only fair that the wealth associated with those titles should be returned to the public trust. This should happen to all the aristocracy, any wealth which cannot be independently verified as entirely self-generated should be removed. Lizzie Saxe-Coburg-Gothe and her like should be happy to be offered a council house.

    So a retroactive 100% inheritance tax for them?
    Not really. The argument is that the wealth is associated with the title and not the individual. If they can verify that some of the wealth was not generated by lands and benefits associated with the title (or indeed inherited from ancestors where it had not been generated by the lands and benefits) then they should be free to keep it.

    But for the Duke of Westminster and his ilk, the Queen and her ilk, the billions should be returned to the people.
    Trying to prove exactly what fraction of money was generate due to their position, as opposed to inherited, or generated from investments which were inherited (probably the vast majority of the money nowadays), will be very difficult.
    I don't feel sorry for the difficulties they would face.

    Their inconvenience would be a price worth paying for the introduction of Democracy to the Republic.
    I didn't say anything about the difficulties they would face, I'm talking about the difficulty in actually determining what monies were generate due to their title. Unless you are talking about arbitrarily deciding that it is all associated with the title, and seizing the lot.
    Yes, so was I. I placed the onus on them to provide evidence. So it would be a difficulty for them, not the state. By default, the wealth would transfer to the state with the abolition of the title. It would then be up to the former aristocracy to provide evidence and support for any claim against that wealth.

    Alternatively, it would probably be more convenient for the country just to provide them with a council house and a £10k per annum pension.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Bradford go 3-2 ahead vs Chelsea having been 2-0 down.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:



    When the titles are abolished it is only fair that the wealth associated with those titles should be returned to the public trust. This should happen to all the aristocracy, any wealth which cannot be independently verified as entirely self-generated should be removed. Lizzie Saxe-Coburg-Gothe and her like should be happy to be offered a council house.

    So a retroactive 100% inheritance tax for them?
    Not really. The argument is that the wealth is associated with the title and not the individual. If they can verify that some of the wealth was not generated by lands and benefits associated with the title (or indeed inherited from ancestors where it had not been generated by the lands and benefits) then they should be free to keep it.

    But for the Duke of Westminster and his ilk, the Queen and her ilk, the billions should be returned to the people.
    Trying to prove exactly what fraction of money was generate due to their position, as opposed to inherited, or generated from investments which were inherited (probably the vast majority of the money nowadays), will be very difficult.
    I don't feel sorry for the difficulties they would face.

    Their inconvenience would be a price worth paying for the introduction of Democracy to the Republic.
    I didn't say anything about the difficulties they would face, I'm talking about the difficulty in actually determining what monies were generate due to their title. Unless you are talking about arbitrarily deciding that it is all associated with the title, and seizing the lot.
    Yes, so was I. I placed the onus on them to provide evidence. So it would be a difficulty for them, not the state. By default, the wealth would transfer to the state with the abolition of the title. It would then be up to the former aristocracy to provide evidence and support for any claim against that wealth.

    Alternatively, it would probably be more convenient for the country just to provide them with a council house and a £10k per annum pension.
    So will this draconian principle be applied elsewhere? The state will seize all your assets, and you have to prove that you are legally entitled to it.

    I don't think it is as clear cut as you like to imagine, it isn't as if the aristocracy of today has just become wealthy by exploiting their title, it is almost entirely derived from inheritance.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Opinion polls... must have opinion polls :)

    Only YouGov tonight I think.
    I'll do my best to encourage a crossover ;)
    Good man.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    stodge said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    On topic where Lord Ashcroft the others follow.

    The Good Lord further continues to show that his polling is the Gold Standard.

    I see....he's the Gold Standard because of the outlier poll showing the Conservatives 6% ahead.

    The REAL Gold Standard (as it used to be) shows a 7% swing in England from the Conservatives to Labour - how many Tory losses does that equal ?
    Far too many losses for my liking.

    ICM's phone poll remains the Gold Standard of UK Polling.

    Ashcroft's polling is Gold Standard for innovation and doing stuff pro bono publico, especially for his constituency polling, which I said the other day has probably cost him nearly two million pounds so far this parliament.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    AndyJS said:

    Bradford go 3-2 ahead vs Chelsea having been 2-0 down.

    Leicester have come back to win 2:1 away at Spurs. Foxes never quit!
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    RobD said:

    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:



    When the titles are abolished it is only fair that the wealth associated with those titles should be returned to the public trust. This should happen to all the aristocracy, any wealth which cannot be independently verified as entirely self-generated should be removed. Lizzie Saxe-Coburg-Gothe and her like should be happy to be offered a council house.

    So a retroactive 100% inheritance tax for them?
    Not really. The argument is that the wealth is associated with the title and not the individual. If they can verify that some of the wealth was not generated by lands and benefits associated with the title (or indeed inherited from ancestors where it had not been generated by the lands and benefits) then they should be free to keep it.

    But for the Duke of Westminster and his ilk, the Queen and her ilk, the billions should be returned to the people.
    Trying to prove exactly what fraction of money was generate due to their position, as opposed to inherited, or generated from investments which were inherited (probably the vast majority of the money nowadays), will be very difficult.
    I don't feel sorry for the difficulties they would face.

    Their inconvenience would be a price worth paying for the introduction of Democracy to the Republic.
    I didn't say anything about the difficulties they would face, I'm talking about the difficulty in actually determining what monies were generate due to their title. Unless you are talking about arbitrarily deciding that it is all associated with the title, and seizing the lot.
    People like Dair would, if they had the chance, line up the royals and have them shot. It would indeed be a grim world if the Greens ever obtained power.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    RobD said:

    So will this draconian principle be applied elsewhere? The state will seize all your assets, and you have to prove that you are legally entitled to it.

    I don't think it is as clear cut as you like to imagine, it isn't as if the aristocracy of today has just become wealthy by exploiting their title, it is almost entirely derived from inheritance.

    The state already has the right to seize all your assets. It just doesn't tend to use it other than with PoCA.

    The process of disestablishing the aristocracy isn't my primary concern in any case, the main problem with aristocracy is that is is the root of the system of Patronage in the UK which has given us one of the most corrupt nations on earth and where the abomination of the House of Lords exists in 2015.

    It is also a fundamentally undemocratic and anti-aspirational message which in itself can be blamed for a whole variety of deep-seated societal issues.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    What the eff is going on in the FA Cup?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Bradford score again: 4-2 vs Chelsea.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited January 2015
    We can't even be the main shock exit.

    Bring on Barndoor at 1-0 up

    We lose.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    So will this draconian principle be applied elsewhere? The state will seize all your assets, and you have to prove that you are legally entitled to it.

    I don't think it is as clear cut as you like to imagine, it isn't as if the aristocracy of today has just become wealthy by exploiting their title, it is almost entirely derived from inheritance.

    The state already has the right to seize all your assets. It just doesn't tend to use it other than with PoCA.

    The process of disestablishing the aristocracy isn't my primary concern in any case, the main problem with aristocracy is that is is the root of the system of Patronage in the UK which has given us one of the most corrupt nations on earth and where the abomination of the House of Lords exists in 2015.

    It is also a fundamentally undemocratic and anti-aspirational message which in itself can be blamed for a whole variety of deep-seated societal issues.
    Under what law can this be done, I was only aware of the 2002 act which targets proceeds of crime? Still, my question wasn't if there'd be a new law on it, it was if it would be applied in the new regime you are describing.

    And I did laugh at calling the UK the most corrupt nation on Earth.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited January 2015
    MikeK said:


    People like Dair would, if they had the chance, line up the royals and have them shot. It would indeed be a grim world if the Greens ever obtained power.

    Actually I'm a Technocratic Libertarian so couldn't be much further from the Greens in terms of political philosophy.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,607
    Looks like the year doesn't end in 1 again

    Backed Townsend FGS too!

    Perfick
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What the eff is going on in the FA Cup?

    Chelsea out! Did you back them? :D
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    It must be heavy stuff in Dairs Sixth form..
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,759
    MikeK said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What the eff is going on in the FA Cup?

    Chelsea out! Did you back them? :D
    Yeah. And Bolton.

    Sadly not as an accumulator.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Dair said:

    MikeK said:


    People like Dair would, if they had the chance, line up the royals and have them shot. It would indeed be a grim world if the Greens ever obtained power.

    Actually I'm a Technocratic Libertarian so couldn't be much further from the Greens in terms of political philosophy.
    I didn't say you, only people like you, convinced that their own political philosophy is the only correct one.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    RobD said:

    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    So will this draconian principle be applied elsewhere? The state will seize all your assets, and you have to prove that you are legally entitled to it.

    I don't think it is as clear cut as you like to imagine, it isn't as if the aristocracy of today has just become wealthy by exploiting their title, it is almost entirely derived from inheritance.

    The state already has the right to seize all your assets. It just doesn't tend to use it other than with PoCA.

    The process of disestablishing the aristocracy isn't my primary concern in any case, the main problem with aristocracy is that is is the root of the system of Patronage in the UK which has given us one of the most corrupt nations on earth and where the abomination of the House of Lords exists in 2015.

    It is also a fundamentally undemocratic and anti-aspirational message which in itself can be blamed for a whole variety of deep-seated societal issues.
    Under what law can this be done, I was only aware of the 2002 act which targets proceeds of crime? Still, my question wasn't if there'd be a new law on it, it was if it would be applied in the new regime you are describing.

    And I did laugh at calling the UK the most corrupt nation on Earth.
    There are a few current laws which allow asset seizure of which PoCA is obviously the best known and most used. Pretty sure Treason seizure is still on the books.

    But you miss the wood for the trees perhaps. It is that government can make such laws. It can also decide to repeal safeguards such as the ECHR (as UKIP most desperately wish to do). So at any time, for any reason, the government of the UK can seize whatever it wants.

    As for corruption, just because it is more subtle, and less obvious than slipping a copper £20 (which as we now know is actually quite widespread even here) but the system of political and establishment patronage, nepotism and cronyism is corruption at a much higher (and far more profitable) level than most people think when the word "corruption" is used.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MikeK said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What the eff is going on in the FA Cup?

    Chelsea out! Did you back them? :D
    Yeah. And Bolton.

    Sadly not as an accumulator.
    That would have been even more tragic. Better luck next time.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    "The only big trend is that none of the surveys have the Tories getting anywhere near the 11.5% England lead of 2010"

    Er, 8% ???

  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    isam said:

    Looks like the year doesn't end in 1 again

    Backed Townsend FGS too!

    Perfick

    Just so relieved we didn't draw. Europa last 32, League Cup SF and PL is quite enough.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    audreyanne said:

    isam said:

    Looks like the year doesn't end in 1 again

    Backed Townsend FGS too!

    Perfick

    Just so relieved we didn't draw. Europa last 32, League Cup SF and PL is quite enough.
    Don't count on it, Sheffield United away will be tough.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Labour MP for Midlothian David Hamilton has decided to retire. Could we see other Lab MPs in Scotland taking the same decision with the polls as they are?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:

    RobD said:

    So will this draconian principle be applied elsewhere? The state will seize all your assets, and you have to prove that you are legally entitled to it.

    I don't think it is as clear cut as you like to imagine, it isn't as if the aristocracy of today has just become wealthy by exploiting their title, it is almost entirely derived from inheritance.

    The state already has the right to seize all your assets. It just doesn't tend to use it other than with PoCA.

    The process of disestablishing the aristocracy isn't my primary concern in any case, the main problem with aristocracy is that is is the root of the system of Patronage in the UK which has given us one of the most corrupt nations on earth and where the abomination of the House of Lords exists in 2015.

    It is also a fundamentally undemocratic and anti-aspirational message which in itself can be blamed for a whole variety of deep-seated societal issues.
    Under what law can this be done, I was only aware of the 2002 act which targets proceeds of crime? Still, my question wasn't if there'd be a new law on it, it was if it would be applied in the new regime you are describing.

    And I did laugh at calling the UK the most corrupt nation on Earth.
    There are a few current laws which allow asset seizure of which PoCA is obviously the best known and most used. Pretty sure Treason seizure is still on the books.

    But you miss the wood for the trees perhaps. It is that government can make such laws. It can also decide to repeal safeguards such as the ECHR (as UKIP most desperately wish to do). So at any time, for any reason, the government of the UK can seize whatever it wants.

    As for corruption, just because it is more subtle, and less obvious than slipping a copper £20 (which as we now know is actually quite widespread even here) but the system of political and establishment patronage, nepotism and cronyism is corruption at a much higher (and far more profitable) level than most people think when the word "corruption" is used.
    I guess we'll need a new Royal Seizure Act when you come into power?

    And no, I'm still not buying the idea that the UK is the most corrupt nation on Earth.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    saddened said:

    Socrates said:

    Apparently there's rising anti-Semitism in Sweden, with many Jews very afraid of getting attacked:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8BqRdlCIAADg7D.png
    I wonder what the common denominator is?

    Dickheads obsessed by race and religion?

    Hahaha :D
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Ukraine rebels in Mariupol 'attack' (BBC)

    Is Mariupol about to fall?
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2015
    foxinsoxuk said:

    audreyanne said:

    isam said:

    Looks like the year doesn't end in 1 again

    Backed Townsend FGS too!

    Perfick

    Just so relieved we didn't draw. Europa last 32, League Cup SF and PL is quite enough.
    Don't count on it, Sheffield United away will be tough.
    They will indeed be tough but are you expecting the semi final second leg to be called off then? ;)

    (SF is short for semi-final)
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    audreyanne said:

    isam said:

    Looks like the year doesn't end in 1 again

    Backed Townsend FGS too!

    Perfick

    Just so relieved we didn't draw. Europa last 32, League Cup SF and PL is quite enough.
    Foxy: the point is that I just don't think we could reasonably have the FA Cup, and esp. a replay, on top of those three and expect to perform.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,538
    Dair said:

    MikeK said:


    People like Dair would, if they had the chance, line up the royals and have them shot. It would indeed be a grim world if the Greens ever obtained power.

    Actually I'm a Technocratic Libertarian so couldn't be much further from the Greens in terms of political philosophy.
    Libertarians are generally in favour of private property.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Yemen falling to pieces, again.

    The Times of Israel ‏@TimesofIsrael 11m11 minutes ago
    Thousands rally against Shiite militia in Yemen capital http://dlvr.it/8DBPWk
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Cllr Chris Wood UKIP ‏@Chris_Wood_1989 15m15 minutes ago
    Had an absolutely fantastic day campaigning in Gosport, really high level of Ukip support, quite astounding really! #ukip #gosport
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    If YouGov is indeed the only poll tonight I'm going to reiterate my previous and say that I really want to see what happens once we get through January. The polls with fieldwork for the first week of February are when I'm going to start to take notice.

    There are two reasons for this. The first is based on feeling. The second is financial. For the former, I think it is still taking a long time for people to waken to the fact there's a GE. Actually I haven't heard a single person mention it. The second is that a lot of normal folk are skint by now after a 5 week lag between pay and Crimbo/New Year soaking up the December take home. Let's see how things begin to shake down into February.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Dair said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Queen Elizabeth II would be evicted from Buckingham Palace and moved into a council house in plans to abolish the monarchy and build more social housing, as suggested by the Greens leader.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/we-would-evict-queen-from-buckingham-palace-and-allocate-her-council-house-say-greens-10000370.html

    The monarchy has far less support than the BBC and MSM would have you believe with something like a third of those in England and Wales and perhaps half of those in Scotland quite happy to see it abolished.
    Polling evidence?

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,177
    I made that ;-)

    Actually I think some of the phone pollsters have England crossbreaks going back before December, Ashcroft certainly does, but I haven't had the time to start adding them to the table. But it barely seems worth doing when it's the figures running up to the election that count.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Good to see so many Team 2015 groups out around the country today canvassing for Tory MPs and candidates.

    As for the theme of this thread, we shall see what the Tory lead in England proves to be on 7th May. No doubt we will get lots of numbers from pollsters with a track record of wild inaccuracy which many on here will get excited about.

    For me the only polls which will be key are Lord A's constituency polls, ICM and Ipsos-Mori. YouGov will be interesting for any trends it shows. The rest are questionable in their level of reliability as we saw with the polls leading up to the Euro elections.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Re the Danish Jews

    It should come as no surprise that the Nazis themselves arranged to let them escape.

    SS-Obergruppenführer Werner Best, Reich plenipotentiary in Denmark, and Georg Duckwitz, a German diplomat overseeing shipping, negotiated with the Swedes to take them , tipped off the Jews, and arranged for the Germany Navy to look the other way while the evacuation took place.

    Or did anyone seriously believe such a thing could happen without official help?
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    Easterross said:

    Good to see so many Team 2015 groups out around the country today canvassing for Tory MPs and candidates.

    As for the theme of this thread, we shall see what the Tory lead in England proves to be on 7th May. No doubt we will get lots of numbers from pollsters with a track record of wild inaccuracy which many on here will get excited about.

    For me the only polls which will be key are Lord A's constituency polls, ICM and Ipsos-Mori. YouGov will be interesting for any trends it shows. The rest are questionable in their level of reliability as we saw with the polls leading up to the Euro elections.

    Yes good post Easterross.

    I do find some of Mike's thread bias quite extraordinary. I mean, for the Conservatives to have an 8% lead on one recent England poll hardly merits the sort of tosh he writes when there is still more than 3 months to go.

    Mike's biggest weakness is his anti-Tory bias, and it's where he regularly falls.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Paul_Mid_Beds said:

    Disgraceful behaviour from the Green Leader. Whether or not you are a republican, to take this attitude to the Queen personally after over sixty years of public service is totally wrong

    I say give Green Leader a little tower in Lusaka.

    "Give The Queen A Council House, Say Greens
    The Green party leader says she would scrap the monarchy and build more council houses - giving one to the Queen if she needed it."

    http://news.sky.com/story/1414174/give-the-queen-a-council-house-say-greens

    Obviously the Greens are now mouldy watermelons - past their sell-by-date.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,165
    MikeK said:

    Dair said:

    MikeK said:


    People like Dair would, if they had the chance, line up the royals and have them shot. It would indeed be a grim world if the Greens ever obtained power.

    Actually I'm a Technocratic Libertarian so couldn't be much further from the Greens in terms of political philosophy.
    I didn't say you, only people like you, convinced that their own political philosophy is the only correct one.
    Irony meter pisses itself laughing.
  • Greenwich_FloaterGreenwich_Floater Posts: 389
    Doesn't look great for the tories these numbers. They need about about one third of soft kippers to come back, hope that Labour continue seeping to the greens and Red Libs drift back home.

    1 or 2 of these scenerios are possible, all 3, might be beyond them.

    Labour most seats - NOM
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Dair said:

    MikeK said:


    People like Dair would, if they had the chance, line up the royals and have them shot. It would indeed be a grim world if the Greens ever obtained power.

    Actually I'm a Technocratic Libertarian so couldn't be much further from the Greens in terms of political philosophy.
    No, you are a nailed-on lunatic.

    So closer to the Greens than you think.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    audreyanne said:

    For the former, I think it is still taking a long time for people to waken to the fact there's a GE. Actually I haven't heard a single person mention it.

    I agree with you, but I question whether that's actually going to change at any point before the election. Imo, people are so sick of the way politics is in this country that a great many people are not going to "switch on" at all this time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Good evening, everyone.

    Not sure a straight Lab-Con comparison is the best way to look at this. UKIP and the Lib Dems (and, to a lesser extent, the Greens) could see some odd results.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2015
    Greenwich_Floater said:

    Doesn't look great for the tories these numbers. They need about about one third of soft kippers to come back, hope that Labour continue seeping to the greens and Red Libs drift back home.

    1 or 2 of these scenerios are possible, all 3, might be beyond them.

    Labour most seats - NOM

    Nah. Far too soon to say still. To get to within a smidgeon of GE2010 on one of those polls shows this is all to play for. But the other reason you, and Mike, don't I think have this right (with respect) is that you must remember the Tories are looking principally to gain from the LibDems in England. That's where the vast majority of their gains will come. Check out the simplistic Baxter to see. So any calculations this time round need to look at how the LibDems are performing in England in their seats.

    Sorry Mike but you have this all wrong.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    'Watermelons"—of which Ramsay is one—are green on the outside and red in the middle. In other words, they're environmentalists, but are more likely to be found discussing Marx than tutting at someone for eating non-organic vegetable. "Mangos," on the other hand, are more like Lib Dems, for whom cycle lanes are a particularly big deal—broadly pro-business until businesses dodge fly-tipping regulations. Ramsay reckons the watermelons are crushing the mangoes into pulp, politically speaking.

    http://www.vice.com/read/who-are-the-green-party-554
  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    OT, I can't help thinking that with a sample size of only 900 and an electorate of 25 million in England we could be in for a large shock come May 8th, given that the fracturing of the two party system into a five party system means that areas chosen to poll people and weighting, which must inevitably be based on past polling patterns, will be irrelevant now.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    By the way, anyone remember "Labour's firewall"?

    Month after month for best part of two years we were subjected to that gem.

    ROFL.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    MikeK said:

    Cllr Chris Wood UKIP ‏@Chris_Wood_1989 15m15 minutes ago
    Had an absolutely fantastic day campaigning in Gosport, really high level of Ukip support, quite astounding really! #ukip #gosport

    Having no Tory candidate should help UKIP a bit in Fareham.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    audreyanne said:

    By the way, anyone remember "Labour's firewall"?

    Month after month for best part of two years we were subjected to that gem.

    ROFL.

    In my opinion, a lot of Labour canvassers mistook people saying "I'm definitely not voting Tory or Lib Dem again" for "I'm definitely voting Labour". That was always a silly and complacent assumption when there's so many parties on offer, and when most voters under the age of about 60 no longer have that sort of default setting to one or other of the big parties even if they disagree with all their policies.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited January 2015
    Easterross said:

    Good to see so many Team 2015 groups out around the country today canvassing for Tory MPs and candidates.

    As for the theme of this thread, we shall see what the Tory lead in England proves to be on 7th May. No doubt we will get lots of numbers from pollsters with a track record of wild inaccuracy which many on here will get excited about.

    For me the only polls which will be key are Lord A's constituency polls, ICM and Ipsos-Mori. YouGov will be interesting for any trends it shows. The rest are questionable in their level of reliability as we saw with the polls leading up to the Euro elections.

    Hopefully they were wearing those rather fashionable Team 2015 blue t-shirts.

    http://i1.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article7848019.ece/alternates/s615/grant-shapps.jpg

    The picture never fails to provide a few laughs.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Sean_F said:

    Dair said:

    MikeK said:


    People like Dair would, if they had the chance, line up the royals and have them shot. It would indeed be a grim world if the Greens ever obtained power.

    Actually I'm a Technocratic Libertarian so couldn't be much further from the Greens in terms of political philosophy.
    Libertarians are generally in favour of private property.
    Yes, and I am. But this is public property associated with title not merit.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Sporting Index spreads http://goo.gl/0sfA2E changes on yesterday
    Mid-points
    LAB 283+1
    CON 280-2
    LD 28.5+0.5
    UKIP 8.5=
    SNP 32.5+0.5
  • isamisam Posts: 42,607
    audreyanne said:

    isam said:

    Looks like the year doesn't end in 1 again

    Backed Townsend FGS too!

    Perfick

    Just so relieved we didn't draw. Europa last 32, League Cup SF and PL is quite enough.
    Two Disney Cups for reserves and a battle for 5th?

    Glory Glory!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,506
    CarlottaVance said:

    Dair said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Queen Elizabeth II would be evicted from Buckingham Palace and moved into a council house in plans to abolish the monarchy and build more social housing, as suggested by the Greens leader.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/we-would-evict-queen-from-buckingham-palace-and-allocate-her-council-house-say-greens-10000370.html

    The monarchy has far less support than the BBC and MSM would have you believe with something like a third of those in England and Wales and perhaps half of those in Scotland quite happy to see it abolished.
    Polling evidence?


    BRITAIN SHOULD KEEP THE MONARCHY

    Scotland

    Agree: 65%
    Disagree: 25%
    Net agreement: 40

    rUK

    Agree: 76%
    Disagree: 16%
    Net agreement: 60

    Scotland/rUK gap: 20 points

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-same-and-different/

    You'll need to check the source for DNKs which will be important here.

    General impression from past is a smaller majority for the monarchy but a substantially greater republican minority than in England (some polling produced only about 50% for). However, note that

    1. Being a supporter of a monarch as Head of State does not equate to supporting all the paraphernalia, etc. such as the Civil List and Lords - some of those will be in favour of a slimmed down royalty, abolition of honours in their current state, the *Duke of Rothesay's interference in legislation, etc.

    2. This is very context-dependent: HM has a rather different image, let's say, than some other members of the RF.

    *PoW to some of you
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    MikeSmithson said:

    Sporting Index spreads http://goo.gl/0sfA2E changes on yesterday
    Mid-points
    LAB 283+1
    CON 280-2
    LD 28.5+0.5
    UKIP 8.5=
    SNP 32.5+0.5

    Are you going to produce charts plotting the progress of these? I recall at one previous election you did, and it was quite interesting.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    MikeK said:

    Cllr Chris Wood UKIP ‏@Chris_Wood_1989 15m15 minutes ago
    Had an absolutely fantastic day campaigning in Gosport, really high level of Ukip support, quite astounding really! #ukip #gosport

    That's very interesting. My house in the UK is in Gosport - a legacy from my time based there - and that's where my vote is registered. Gosport is where I first became actively involved in local and afterwards UK national politics.

    It must be possible for UKIP to take second place there. Elson, Hardway and parts of Brockhurst should be prime UKIP territory.
  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    Carnyx said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Dair said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Queen Elizabeth II would be evicted from Buckingham Palace and moved into a council house in plans to abolish the monarchy and build more social housing, as suggested by the Greens leader.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/we-would-evict-queen-from-buckingham-palace-and-allocate-her-council-house-say-greens-10000370.html

    The monarchy has far less support than the BBC and MSM would have you believe with something like a third of those in England and Wales and perhaps half of those in Scotland quite happy to see it abolished.
    Polling evidence?


    BRITAIN SHOULD KEEP THE MONARCHY

    Scotland

    Agree: 65%
    Disagree: 25%
    Net agreement: 40

    rUK

    Agree: 76%
    Disagree: 16%
    Net agreement: 60

    Scotland/rUK gap: 20 points

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-same-and-different/

    You'll need to check the source for DNKs which will be important here.

    General impression from past is a smaller majority for the monarchy but a substantially greater republican minority than in England (some polling produced only about 50% for). However, note that

    1. Being a supporter of a monarch as Head of State does not equate to supporting all the paraphernalia, etc. such as the Civil List and Lords - some of those will be in favour of a slimmed down royalty, abolition of honours in their current state, the *Duke of Rothesay's interference in legislation, etc.

    2. This is very context-dependent: HM has a rather different image, let's say, than some other members of the RF.

    *PoW to some of you
    And proposing to abolish the monarchy is one thing, a proposal to depose Queen Elizabeth II and dump her in a council house after over 60 years public service is another.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    GeoffM said:

    Dair said:

    MikeK said:


    People like Dair would, if they had the chance, line up the royals and have them shot. It would indeed be a grim world if the Greens ever obtained power.

    Actually I'm a Technocratic Libertarian so couldn't be much further from the Greens in terms of political philosophy.
    No, you are a nailed-on lunatic.

    So closer to the Greens than you think.
    If you view things from a tabula rasa, the lunatic appears to be anyone who could even think about supporting the principle of monarchy.

    Imagine forming a new countries constitution, the debate comes down to selection of a Head of State and how best to elect them. Somoene pipes up "how about we get the most charismatic psychopaths we can find, let them battle it out and whoever wins is head of state, and when they did their eldest son gets it, even if he's incapable, incompetent or mentally imbalanced."

    Who sounds like the lunatic again?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,907
    Gonna be Tweeting some - shall we say - "interesting" charts once the YouGov tables come out :)
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    breaking: UKIP MEP suspended over "extremely serious" financial and business issues...
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Dair said:

    GeoffM said:

    Dair said:

    MikeK said:


    People like Dair would, if they had the chance, line up the royals and have them shot. It would indeed be a grim world if the Greens ever obtained power.

    Actually I'm a Technocratic Libertarian so couldn't be much further from the Greens in terms of political philosophy.
    No, you are a nailed-on lunatic.

    So closer to the Greens than you think.
    If you view things from a tabula rasa, the lunatic appears to be anyone who could even think about supporting the principle of monarchy.

    Imagine forming a new countries constitution, the debate comes down to selection of a Head of State and how best to elect them. Somoene pipes up "how about we get the most charismatic psychopaths we can find, let them battle it out and whoever wins is head of state, and when they did their eldest son gets it, even if he's incapable, incompetent or mentally imbalanced."

    Who sounds like the lunatic again?
    Still you - the person who wants to steal someone's allotment to punish them because their ancestor won a battle in the seventeen century

    Nutter.
This discussion has been closed.

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