Presumably this is the point where posters like TGOHF, TSE and TheWatcher, who accused Reckless of a lack of ethics for saying supportive things shortly before defecting, to say the same about Bashir.
Socrates - he's either a typical Kipper wrong un - or they sat on allegations- or they are smearing him - none of the 3 is great for Farage.
Is Kipper heaven for some.
They get to bitch and moan about a Muslim :-)
you have to question his judgement though hence I wouldn't have him.
I mean he joined Ukip FFS - he must be a serious nutter.
Bashir might be a wrong 'un but neither party looks good. They might be better advised to keep quiet - but they won't.
There are several possibilities ...
Ukip made up the allegations when they found out about his defection. Possible but unlikely. Defections aren't uncommon but making up allegations could leave them open to libel or slander claims.A pointless risk.
He has questions to answer but is innocent. Possible.
He has questions to answer and can't answer them all. Possible. I don't know the ins and the outs but not guilty or innocent can be difficult to prove sometimes.
Presumably this is the point where posters like TGOHF, TSE and TheWatcher, who accused Reckless of a lack of ethics for saying supportive things shortly before defecting, to say the same about Bashir.
Socrates - he's either a typical Kipper wrong un - or they sat on allegations- or they are smearing him - none of the 3 is great for Farage.
Is Kipper heaven for some.
They get to bitch and moan about a Muslim :-)
you have to question his judgement though hence I wouldn't have him.
I mean he joined Ukip FFS - he must be a serious nutter.
Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
So he's actually committed as part of a code of conduct to resign? If he's a man of his word he will have to do that then. Otherwise he's a lying, slippery politician.
Sporting Index spreads http://goo.gl/0sfA2E changes on yesterday Mid-points LAB 283+1 CON 280-2 LD 28.5+0.5 UKIP 8.5= SNP 32.5+0.5
Where on Earth are the other 3/4 UKIP seats going to come from ? Assuming they do win 4/5.
In Thurrock, if the Tory vote fell by 7.6%, Labour vote fell by 7% and UKIP vote went UP by 22%, Labour still wins narrowly. If the Labour and Tory vote did not fall equally, UKIP will need an even bigger swing.
In order of likelihood to go purple by my reckoning
Clacton Boston Thanet South Thurrock Rochester & Strood Great Yarmouth Basildon & SE Thurrock Castle Point Great Grimsby
Something like that
Though I doubt they can get them all.
7-1 3-4 UKIP seats being offered by Hills was a good bet recently, as past Thurrock and Thanet South it gets alot tougher to get MORE seats methinks.
Presumably Bashir will resign his seat and run again for election? Or are defectors to the Tories simply less principled than those to UKIP?
You really don't understand how list systems work do you?
If he quits, there's no election, the next person on the list becomes the MEP.
Except of course he won't quit. The Tories suffered badly from this in the past and I thought them very badly done by for it. The same will apply now with UKIP. If you are elected on a party list system then the seat should belong to the party not the individual. That it doesn't happen just goes to show how stupid the system is in the first place.
I really, really, really hate the list system.
Puts far too much power with the parties, and you can't vote to get rid of a particular candidate that irks you.
I agree entirely. But as long as we have that system it should be carried through to its logical conclusion. As I said at the time, Helmer should have resigned (all the more so because he had said he would) as should have those Tories who defected to the Lib Dems. Bashir should do the same. He won't of course because the whole system is set up to allow such self serving and undemocratic practices.
I mean he joined Ukip FFS - he must be a serious nutter.
As a rule of thumb anybody who was ever a member or supporter of UKIP is probably more trouble than they are worth. He should be politely told to get lost.
I mean he joined Ukip FFS - he must be a serious nutter.
As a rule of thumb anybody who was ever a member or supporter of UKIP is probably more trouble than they are worth. He should be politely told to get lost.
Bit off of UKIP if they have smeared him just because he was going to defect... I hope that isn't the case.
He may have defected because he knew he was going to be found out I suppose
Either way it's his decision, he can do as he likes. I used to vote Labour, changed my mind and joined UKIP so cant really have a pop at anyone who has a change of heart
UKIP find out he's defecting at Noon, they suspend him at 5pm...
I'm sure it's new politics and not a kung fu kick.
So he's actually committed as part of a code of conduct to resign? If he's a man of his word he will have to do that then. Otherwise he's a lying, slippery politician.
LOL. On a purely non party point, are there any other sort? I would have thought the adjectives were completely superfluous in that sentence. :-)
Sporting Index spreads http://goo.gl/0sfA2E changes on yesterday Mid-points LAB 283+1 CON 280-2 LD 28.5+0.5 UKIP 8.5= SNP 32.5+0.5
Where on Earth are the other 3/4 UKIP seats going to come from ? Assuming they do win 4/5.
In Thurrock, if the Tory vote fell by 7.6%, Labour vote fell by 7% and UKIP vote went UP by 22%, Labour still wins narrowly. If the Labour and Tory vote did not fall equally, UKIP will need an even bigger swing.
In order of likelihood to go purple by my reckoning
Clacton Boston Thanet South Thurrock Rochester & Strood Great Yarmouth Basildon & SE Thurrock Castle Point Great Grimsby
Something like that
Though I doubt they can get them all.
7-1 3-4 UKIP seats being offered by Hills was a good bet recently, as past Thurrock and Thanet South it gets alot tougher to get MORE seats methinks.
7/1 is a good bet for UKIP 3-4 seats. I doubt they can win any more.
Presumably Bashir will resign his seat and run again for election? Or are defectors to the Tories simply less principled than those to UKIP?
You really don't understand how list systems work do you?
If he quits, there's no election, the next person on the list becomes the MEP.
Except of course he won't quit. The Tories suffered badly from this in the past and I thought them very badly done by for it. The same will apply now with UKIP. If you are elected on a party list system then the seat should belong to the party not the individual. That it doesn't happen just goes to show how stupid the system is in the first place.
I really, really, really hate the list system.
Puts far too much power with the parties, and you can't vote to get rid of a particular candidate that irks you.
I agree entirely. But as long as we have that system it should be carried through to its logical conclusion. As I said at the time, Helmer should have resigned (all the more so because he had said he would) as should have those Tories who defected to the Lib Dems. Bashir should do the same. He won't of course because the whole system is set up to allow such self serving and undemocratic practices.
It's even worse in this case, because he signed a code of conduct to resign if he left the party.
Bit off of UKIP if they have smeared him just because he was going to defect... I hope that isn't the case.
He may have defected because he knew he was going to be found out I suppose
Either way it's his decision, he can do as he likes. I used to vote Labour, changed my mind and joined UKIP so cant really have a pop at anyone who has a change of heart
UKIP find out he's defecting at Noon, they suspend him at 5pm...
I'm sure it's new politics and not a kung fu kick.
Sure we will find out.
This will sound sore but I hope you will find that I generally post honestly even if we disagree. I wish him luck but found him a bit of an embarrassment to be honest, I tried to listen to his Radio 2 interview w Lenny Henry earlier in the month and couldn't bear more than a minute of it. Cringeing ell
. I am sure he was over promoted because of tokenism
Presumably Bashir will resign his seat and run again for election? Or are defectors to the Tories simply less principled than those to UKIP?
You really don't understand how list systems work do you?
If he quits, there's no election, the next person on the list becomes the MEP.
Except of course he won't quit. The Tories suffered badly from this in the past and I thought them very badly done by for it. The same will apply now with UKIP. If you are elected on a party list system then the seat should belong to the party not the individual. That it doesn't happen just goes to show how stupid the system is in the first place.
The whole mechanism seems wretched, it stinks to high heaven - Carswell & Reckless resigned their seats, Helmer, Newton-Dunn and now Bashir should have (had) their MEP seat moved next down the appropriate party list.
Bit off of UKIP if they have smeared him just because he was going to defect... I hope that isn't the case.
He may have defected because he knew he was going to be found out I suppose
Either way it's his decision, he can do as he likes. I used to vote Labour, changed my mind and joined UKIP so cant really have a pop at anyone who has a change of heart
UKIP find out he's defecting at Noon, they suspend him at 5pm...
I'm sure it's new politics and not a kung fu kick.
Perhaps they have dossiers prepared on others too, just in case.
Don't you just love the fresh air that UKIP brings to politics, not like other parties full of opportunists and court politics?
Presumably Bashir will resign his seat and run again for election? Or are defectors to the Tories simply less principled than those to UKIP?
You really don't understand how list systems work do you?
If he quits, there's no election, the next person on the list becomes the MEP.
Except of course he won't quit. The Tories suffered badly from this in the past and I thought them very badly done by for it. The same will apply now with UKIP. If you are elected on a party list system then the seat should belong to the party not the individual. That it doesn't happen just goes to show how stupid the system is in the first place.
I really, really, really hate the list system.
Puts far too much power with the parties, and you can't vote to get rid of a particular candidate that irks you.
I agree entirely. But as long as we have that system it should be carried through to its logical conclusion. As I said at the time, Helmer should have resigned (all the more so because he had said he would) as should have those Tories who defected to the Lib Dems. Bashir should do the same. He won't of course because the whole system is set up to allow such self serving and undemocratic practices.
You can do as you please, for five years, once you're elected under this system. That's why switches between parties are so frequent.
Bit off of UKIP if they have smeared him just because he was going to defect... I hope that isn't the case.
He may have defected because he knew he was going to be found out I suppose
Either way it's his decision, he can do as he likes. I used to vote Labour, changed my mind and joined UKIP so cant really have a pop at anyone who has a change of heart
UKIP find out he's defecting at Noon, they suspend him at 5pm...
I'm sure it's new politics and not a kung fu kick.
Perhaps they have dossiers prepared on others too, just in case.
Don't you just love the fresh air that UKIP brings to politics, not like other parties full of opportunists and court politics?
That's one benefit I suppose of being so full of fruit loops...
Just think about the subtle knee-capping between Hamilton's team and that "good local" guy in Kent... allegedly...
Presumably Bashir will resign his seat and run again for election? Or are defectors to the Tories simply less principled than those to UKIP?
You really don't understand how list systems work do you?
If he quits, there's no election, the next person on the list becomes the MEP.
Except of course he won't quit. The Tories suffered badly from this in the past and I thought them very badly done by for it. The same will apply now with UKIP. If you are elected on a party list system then the seat should belong to the party not the individual. That it doesn't happen just goes to show how stupid the system is in the first place.
The whole mechanism seems wretched, it stinks to high heaven - Carswell & Reckless resigned their seats, Helmer, Newton-Dunn and now Bashir should have (had) their MEP seat moved next down the appropriate party list.
Bit off of UKIP if they have smeared him just because he was going to defect... I hope that isn't the case.
He may have defected because he knew he was going to be found out I suppose
Either way it's his decision, he can do as he likes. I used to vote Labour, changed my mind and joined UKIP so cant really have a pop at anyone who has a change of heart
UKIP find out he's defecting at Noon, they suspend him at 5pm...
I'm sure it's new politics and not a kung fu kick.
Perhaps they have dossiers prepared on others too, just in case.
Don't you just love the fresh air that UKIP brings to politics, not like other parties full of opportunists and court politics?
Thanks for saving us the replay!
Leicester needed the win, we have some tough fixtures in the league coming, including ManU next week. We have lost too many matches by a fine margin, and need to start winning by the same. Despite being bottom, the team and fans still believe that Nigel can pull off the great escape.
The League Cup looks winnable for Spurs, but with Spurs, Chelsea and Man City all out of the FA Cup, it starts to look interesting!
The Labour MP for Midlothian David Hamilton has decided to retire. Could we see other Lab MPs in Scotland taking the same decision with the polls as they are?
That's nice. I'd just stuck another 10 quid on Midlothian yesterday.
Bit off of UKIP if they have smeared him just because he was going to defect... I hope that isn't the case.
He may have defected because he knew he was going to be found out I suppose
Either way it's his decision, he can do as he likes. I used to vote Labour, changed my mind and joined UKIP so cant really have a pop at anyone who has a change of heart
UKIP find out he's defecting at Noon, they suspend him at 5pm...
I'm sure it's new politics and not a kung fu kick.
Perhaps they have dossiers prepared on others too, just in case.
Don't you just love the fresh air that UKIP brings to politics, not like other parties full of opportunists and court politics?
Thanks for saving us the replay!
Leicester needed the win, we have some tough fixtures in the league coming, including ManU next week. We have lost too many matches by a fine margin, and need to start winning by the same. Despite being bottom, the team and fans still believe that Nigel can pull off the great escape.
The League Cup looks winnable for Spurs, but with Spurs, Chelsea and Man City all out of the FA Cup, it starts to look interesting!
You were due to beat us, we were lucky in the League.
Bit off of UKIP if they have smeared him just because he was going to defect... I hope that isn't the case.
He may have defected because he knew he was going to be found out I suppose
Either way it's his decision, he can do as he likes. I used to vote Labour, changed my mind and joined UKIP so cant really have a pop at anyone who has a change of heart
UKIP find out he's defecting at Noon, they suspend him at 5pm...
I'm sure it's new politics and not a kung fu kick.
Perhaps they have dossiers prepared on others too, just in case.
Don't you just love the fresh air that UKIP brings to politics, not like other parties full of opportunists and court politics?
Thanks for saving us the replay!
Leicester needed the win, we have some tough fixtures in the league coming, including ManU next week. We have lost too many matches by a fine margin, and need to start winning by the same. Despite being bottom, the team and fans still believe that Nigel can pull off the great escape.
The League Cup looks winnable for Spurs, but with Spurs, Chelsea and Man City all out of the FA Cup, it starts to look interesting!
You were due to beat us, we were lucky in the League.
I was listening to the Radio Leicester commentary, were you at the match? If so what did you make of our new signing Kramaric? Schlupp was MOTM having gotten over the "knee injury" which kept him from the African Cup conveniently quickly!
"Don't you just love the fresh air that UKIP brings to politics, not like other parties full of opportunists and court politics?"
That's not exactly a cutting insult, is it? Ukip aren't all that good ... why, sometimes they're a bad as us.
Sadly true, but not exactly a recommendation for Kippers to switch.
People should vote for the party that they believe in, but anyone who believes that UKIP are somehow a breath of fresh air needs to open their eyes.
The Greens however are a genuine breath of fresh air, which is why they are surging.
Unfortunately political parties attract some real bad apples, and if this guy was dodgy then Ukip need to do a better job at vetting their candidates. Okay, so it can be difficult to do it for all councillors, but they really should be able to do it for MEPs.
But ultimately I'll be voting Ukip because I agree with the vast majority of their policies.
And if you think the Greens offer something different to the main parties I encourage you to vote for them in May.
Debate related in the Telegraph story on this courageous, lion heart returning home is this clue as to the Tory view on the debates
"Meanwhile, Mr Cameron said broadcasters’ new format of two television election debates with seven parties followed by one with just himself and Mr Miliband showed “I was right to say you needed all the minor parties involved”. "
' “After almost three years as a party member, I realise that Ukip is more concerned with furthering its own interests as a political party than delivering for the British people.'
Spot on, UKIP has no intention of getting off the gravy train as seen with their antics over the EU referendum.
"Don't you just love the fresh air that UKIP brings to politics, not like other parties full of opportunists and court politics?"
That's not exactly a cutting insult, is it? Ukip aren't all that good ... why, sometimes they're a bad as us.
Sadly true, but not exactly a recommendation for Kippers to switch.
People should vote for the party that they believe in, but anyone who believes that UKIP are somehow a breath of fresh air needs to open their eyes.
The Greens however are a genuine breath of fresh air, which is why they are surging.
Unfortunately political parties attract some real bad apples, and if this guy was dodgy then Ukip need to do a better job at vetting their candidates. Okay, so it can be difficult to do it for all councillors, but they really should be able to do it for MEPs.
But ultimately I'll be voting Ukip because I agree with the vast majority of their policies.
And if you think the Greens offer something different to the main parties I encourage you to vote for them in May.
Foxinsoxuk jr will be voting Green (and in Norwich South too where there is a realistic chance of winning). I shall be voting LD though back here in Leicestershire (if they get round to selecting a candidate as there are 5 without a candidate locally). I cannot see the kippers doing well anywhere nearby, with Leicester West the only one that they could win. They could have won NW Leics if Bridgen had defected (as was rumoured last autumn). Their Charnwood candidate does add to the gaity of the nation though:
Could someone check my maths on the Snoopers' Charter, please.
60,000,000 people in the UK .... Let's assume 30,000,000 can be snooped on - that is, use social media, e-mails, telecommunications etc. Each one produces say 1,000 words a day - that's a total of 30 billion words daily.
Even if GCHQ are working full time with say 100 operatives, that's 300,000,000 words each. Obviously they use computers that recognise interesting phrases but ....
What are the chances of Joe Bloggs having his e-mail read? Slightly less than being struck by lightning. So what's the fuss? Is it the chance of it being a thin end of a wedge? But how could they interrogate 300,000,000 words daily to spot you? A little bit of arrogance, perhaps?
I'm genuinely happy to be educated.
Those 300 million words will be run through sentiment analysis software to flag potentials, not just key word phrase matching but general tone and structre. It would be trivial to build up a tone map of every single e-mail address and the senders/recipients of each address - so easily classify when and how often e-mails are sent, what kind of language is used in those e-mails, who the regular contacts are. Software could then flag sudden changes or shifts -new recipients or increased volumes to old recipients.
Often it is not the content of the message themselves but the meta data associated with it that is the goldmine of information.
Comments
I mean he joined Ukip FFS - he must be a serious nutter.
There are several possibilities ...
Ukip made up the allegations when they found out about his defection. Possible but unlikely. Defections aren't uncommon but making up allegations could leave them open to libel or slander claims.A pointless risk.
He has questions to answer but is innocent. Possible.
He has questions to answer and can't answer them all. Possible. I don't know the ins and the outs but not guilty or innocent can be difficult to prove sometimes.
So nobody will really win.
What they mean by him being a "reformer" is that had it been someone else, 10 would have been photographed hanging.
I was delighted to read the news about Pauline Cafferkey, congratulate the medical team and wish her a speedy return to normal life.
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
So he's actually committed as part of a code of conduct to resign? If he's a man of his word he will have to do that then. Otherwise he's a lying, slippery politician.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30967337
Clacton
Boston
Thanet South
Thurrock
Rochester & Strood
Great Yarmouth
Basildon & SE Thurrock
Castle Point
Great Grimsby
Something like that
Though I doubt they can get them all.
7-1 3-4 UKIP seats being offered by Hills was a good bet recently, as past Thurrock and Thanet South it gets alot tougher to get MORE seats methinks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election#England
I'm sure it's new politics and not a kung fu kick.
LOL. On a purely non party point, are there any other sort? I would have thought the adjectives were completely superfluous in that sentence. :-)
"Otherwise he's a lying, slippery politician."
Tautology?
This will sound sore but I hope you will find that I generally post honestly even if we disagree. I wish him luck but found him a bit of an embarrassment to be honest, I tried to listen to his Radio 2 interview w Lenny Henry earlier in the month and couldn't bear more than a minute of it. Cringeing ell
. I am sure he was over promoted because of tokenism
Don't you just love the fresh air that UKIP brings to politics, not like other parties full of opportunists and court politics?
Just think about the subtle knee-capping between Hamilton's team and that "good local" guy in Kent... allegedly...
PS Thanks for saving us the replay!
You should be ashamed and embarrassed about your comment.
"Don't you just love the fresh air that UKIP brings to politics, not like other parties full of opportunists and court politics?"
That's not exactly a cutting insult, is it? Ukip aren't all that good ... why, sometimes they're a bad as us.
Sadly true, but not exactly a recommendation for Kippers to switch.
I propose that the top 4 Championship sides are sent to the Champions League.
The League Cup looks winnable for Spurs, but with Spurs, Chelsea and Man City all out of the FA Cup, it starts to look interesting!
The Greens however are a genuine breath of fresh air, which is why they are surging.
"The Greens however are a genuine breath of fresh air,"
That's what I'm worried about - I prefer a roof and windows.
If you don't like my comment too bad.
But ultimately I'll be voting Ukip because I agree with the vast majority of their policies.
And if you think the Greens offer something different to the main parties I encourage you to vote for them in May.
They can keep the TPD Reckless.
Yesterday's Yougov had them on 17% (I think) so can't see the Greens outpolling them.
Must be some exclusive dirt.
"Meanwhile, Mr Cameron said broadcasters’ new format of two television election debates with seven parties followed by one with just himself and Mr Miliband showed “I was right to say you needed all the minor parties involved”. "
' “After almost three years as a party member, I realise that Ukip is more concerned with furthering its own interests as a political party than delivering for the British people.'
Spot on, UKIP has no intention of getting off the gravy train as seen with their antics over the EU referendum.
http://www.kaleidoscot.com/scotland-not-fly-flag-half-mast-king-abdullah-2379
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/21/benefit-claimants-cars-buses-ukip-leaflet
I particularly like the wit who described UKIP as "not so much a political party but a stag night out of control"
Often it is not the content of the message themselves but the meta data associated with it that is the goldmine of information.