politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TV debates plan B+1. Is Number 10 going to agree this time
Not long to go before the election campaign starts and this afternoon the broadcasters put forward a new proposal which, for the first time, bring in SNP/PC as well as the Greens.
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first?0
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If Cameron doesn't show up to these he'll be making a huge error. I think he's got a decent deal out of his gambit.0
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'France considering return to 'national indignity' law used on Nazi collaborators; strip Islamists of civic rights e.g to vote & get benefits'
Completely off topic but interesting tweet nonetheless.
They'd never get that past the ECHR though, surely.0 -
"We see such sessions take place in the early stages of the US presidential election primaries and have so many on the stage hardly makes for good TV"
Are you kidding? It's brilliant TV. Much better than the Presidential debates.0 -
Whilst the general view here seems to be that this is good for Cam, isn't there a real danger for him that 5 left wing parties to 2 right wing will skew the debate somewhat and he may not have much/any control over the direction of the debates?0
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Key issue is timing and debate order.
Cameron will not want the final debate only one week before the GE.
Key question will be when is the head to head. If the head to head is last that's high risk for Cameron (and Miliband).
If Cameron wants to minimise debate risk he must ensure the head to head isn't last. It could go in the middle but if anything I think he'll favour it going first.
Broadcasters and other parties will argue head to head should go in middle. Minor parties will want their voice heard early - to get momentum - and at the end just before people vote.0 -
Is there still time for the Greens to change leader back to Caroline though :P ?Neil said:"We see such sessions take place in the early stages of the US presidential election primaries and have so many on the stage hardly makes for good TV"
Are you kidding? It's brilliant TV. Much better than the Presidential debates.
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It seems to me that David Cameron has got a pretty good deal on the debates here. I can also see how the broadcasters will feel less vulnerable to legal challenge on these. The only GB party with Parliamentary representation who won't get a chance is Respect, and while George Galloway is famously litigious, he'll struggle to persuade the courts that he's been hard done by in those critical UKIP/Respect marginals.
I expect that the Conservatives will graciously accede to these formats. As Casino Royale said on the last thread, David Cameron's biggest danger in the debates now is overconfidence.0 -
Yes, but there will be very little debate - it will just be endless short speeches.DaemonBarber said:Whilst the general view here seems to be that this is good for Cam, isn't there a real danger for him that 5 left wing parties to 2 right wing will skew the debate somewhat and he may not have much/any control over the direction of the debates?
The upside for Cameron is that left-wing voters are going to hear a lot of things they like from people other than Miliband - so it increases the scope for the left-wing vote to fragment.
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Number 10 should agree in principle asap. Timing remains important.
Plaid Cymru probably can't believe their luck.0 -
No. With two debates there is an argument for Natalie at one and a Scottish GP representative at the other though.Pulpstar said:
Is there still time for the Greens to change leader back to Caroline though :P ?Neil said:"We see such sessions take place in the early stages of the US presidential election primaries and have so many on the stage hardly makes for good TV"
Are you kidding? It's brilliant TV. Much better than the Presidential debates.0 -
This seems a reasonable proposal. Cam should do it. Ducking it will not look good now. Can't imagine Nick and Ed thrilled, though yet again the SNP come up smelling of roses.
I rapidly thinking there will be loads of losers on May the 7th and one winner - the SNP (bit ironic if they end up being the only ones happy at the outcome of the election in a country they want to abolish)0 -
FPT @MikeL
Come on. It's not that the LibDems have been downgraded. It's that others have been up-graded!
The upside is that the LDs should hold more seats the more fragmented the vote is, the wheels will finally fall off FPTP, and the newbies all get to say:-
"I agree with Nick" [on PR at least]0 -
As the new proposal is for only 2 debates is it not, I think Cameron will go for it. He can watch the 3 harpies rip Milibland apart in the first debate and then finish the job himself in the second.0
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He's got everything he asked for - save on the debate timing - but perhaps he can squeeze another concession for his final agreement.antifrank said:It seems to me that David Cameron has got a pretty good deal on the debates here. I can also see how the broadcasters will feel less vulnerable to legal challenge on these. The only GB party with Parliamentary representation who won't get a chance is Respect, and while George Galloway is famously litigious, he'll struggle to persuade the courts that he's been hard done by in those critical UKIP/Respect marginals.
I expect that the Conservatives will graciously accede to these formats. As Casino Royale said on the last thread, David Cameron's biggest danger in the debates now is overconfidence.
I think he'll go for it.
Of course this was pretty much what certain people, who shall remain nameless, were predicting right from when OGH was fulminating with outrage
edit: by the way, the speed of the Labour team's response shows their strategic ineptness. They rolled straight away - presumably trying to give some impression of being principled (on an issue no one cares about). Whereas they could have negotiated for a better position - e.g. excluding SNP/PC - as part of their acceptance.0 -
I think despite Toenails basically writing, we [the media] have won, suck on it Cameron...I think Cameron wont be unhappy about 2 x 7 way debates, because nobody will win those..it will just be basically lots of short speeches and no real way it goes anywhere.
The head to head though, well if Cameron wants to be PM again, if he can't beat up Ed, does he deserve to be PM?
People will say its high risk, look what happened last time...what happened last time was Brown was useless as predicted, despite the Labour spin that he would exceed very low expectations (I bet that is what the Ed spin for this time is). The problem Cameron had was Clegg did extremely well as he was able to get in between the two and sound reasonable. That isn't on the table this time.
If Cameron doesn't agree to these new proposals, he really is chicken.0 -
Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?0
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"Whilst the general view here seems to be that this is good for Cam, isn't there a real danger for him that 5 left wing parties to 2 right wing will skew the debate somewhat and he may not have much/any control over the direction of the debates?"~
While a risk, its also a massive opportunity.0 -
Who is the leader of Plaid Cymru btw ?0
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Yes, but under the original plan voters were being told the LDs were more important than all other parties (except Con and Lab).RodCrosby said:FPT @MikeL
Come on. It's not that the LibDems have been downgraded. It's that others have been up-graded!
The upside is that the LDs should hold more seats the more fragmented the vote is, the wheels will finally fall off FPTP, and the newbies all get to say:-
"I agree with Nick" [on PR at least]
Under this plan, they are being told the LDs are now only equal to all other parties. So it is a clear downgrade of status.
I take your point re vote fragmentation but isn't the issue that an awful lot of LD voters are likely to be tempted by the Greens?
Overall it has to be a much worse format for the LDs.0 -
If you bring in the DUP, you need Sinn Fein in as well.Scrapheap_as_was said:Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?
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No it is for 3 .Easterross said:As the new proposal is for only 2 debates is it not, I think Cameron will go for it. He can watch the 3 harpies rip Milibland apart in the first debate and then finish the job himself in the second.
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Leanne Wood AM. Hence "Wales Gets Wood" would be the equivalent of a Cleggasm.Pulpstar said:Who is the leader of Plaid Cymru btw ?
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Perhaps... I think this is spot on though.Pulpstar said:
If you bring in the DUP, you need Sinn Fein in as well.Scrapheap_as_was said:Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/if-youre-going-to-have-seven-parties-in-the-tv-debates-youve-got-to-include-the-dup/0 -
There I was refreshing the old thread like a moron. We need much bigger new thread alerts, preferably with bells and whistles.0
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You couldn't possibly add the DUP without adding Sinn Fein. The NI parties are not competing against the UK parties, so they should have a debate amongst themselves. SNP/PC are more awkward since they do compete against the UK parties where they stand.Scrapheap_as_was said:Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?
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No political debate has ever been improved by the inclusion of the DUP or Sinn Féin.Pulpstar said:
If you bring in the DUP, you need Sinn Fein in as well.Scrapheap_as_was said:Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?
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Nick Robinson@bbcnickrobinson·5 mins5 minutes ago
For avoidance of doubt -@DUPleader never in TV debates proposals. He's now demanding to know why as got more seats than Plaid, SNP & Greens0 -
None of the parties in the debate is standing in Northern Ireland. OK - the Greens might be, just have a DUP/SF/Alliance/Green debate in NI.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Perhaps... I think this is spot on though.Pulpstar said:
If you bring in the DUP, you need Sinn Fein in as well.Scrapheap_as_was said:Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/if-youre-going-to-have-seven-parties-in-the-tv-debates-youve-got-to-include-the-dup/
Con, Lab, LD, UKIP are all standing in Wales and Scotland.0 -
Are the Blues not standing in NI? I thought they did in 2010 (although performed slightly below par!).Pulpstar said:
None of the parties in the debate is standing in Northern Ireland. OK - the Greens might be, just have a DUP/SF/Alliance/Green debate in NI.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Perhaps... I think this is spot on though.Pulpstar said:
If you bring in the DUP, you need Sinn Fein in as well.Scrapheap_as_was said:Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/if-youre-going-to-have-seven-parties-in-the-tv-debates-youve-got-to-include-the-dup/
Con, Lab, LD, UKIP are all standing in Wales and Scotland.0 -
At this rate, the Monster Raving Loony Party will be in the debates.Scrapheap_as_was said:Nick Robinson@bbcnickrobinson·5 mins5 minutes ago
For avoidance of doubt -@DUPleader never in TV debates proposals. He's now demanding to know why as got more seats than Plaid, SNP & Greens
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I believe you are wrong - the Conservatives stand there don't they?Pulpstar said:
None of the parties in the debate is standing in Northern Ireland. OK - the Greens might be, just have a DUP/SF/Alliance/Green debate in NI.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Perhaps... I think this is spot on though.Pulpstar said:
If you bring in the DUP, you need Sinn Fein in as well.Scrapheap_as_was said:Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/if-youre-going-to-have-seven-parties-in-the-tv-debates-youve-got-to-include-the-dup/
Con, Lab, LD, UKIP are all standing in Wales and Scotland.0 -
The criterion for being included seems to be based around fairness to major parties in their election battlegrounds. The DUP are not harmed by their exclusion, since the parties they are fighting against are also not in this debate (presumably there will be a local northern Irish debate). Plaid Cymru will be harmed if they are excluded and their local rivals are all included.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Perhaps... I think this is spot on though.Pulpstar said:
If you bring in the DUP, you need Sinn Fein in as well.Scrapheap_as_was said:Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/if-youre-going-to-have-seven-parties-in-the-tv-debates-youve-got-to-include-the-dup/
The party that are lucky to be included are the Greens, who are not a major party in OFCOM's assessment in any area. But public opinion evidently feels differently, and David Cameron's backing of the Greens has made them the tariff for his admission.0 -
Yeah, let's have the DUP as well. It would help with making the pricing of electoral lean hog futures more transparent.0
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Joint candidates with the UUP. They managed to reduce the UUP to zero seats.RobD said:
Are the Blues not standing in NI? I thought they did in 2010 (although performed slightly below par!).Pulpstar said:
None of the parties in the debate is standing in Northern Ireland. OK - the Greens might be, just have a DUP/SF/Alliance/Green debate in NI.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Perhaps... I think this is spot on though.Pulpstar said:
If you bring in the DUP, you need Sinn Fein in as well.Scrapheap_as_was said:Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/if-youre-going-to-have-seven-parties-in-the-tv-debates-youve-got-to-include-the-dup/
Con, Lab, LD, UKIP are all standing in Wales and Scotland.
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The Spectator is up its usual gum tree.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Perhaps... I think this is spot on though.Pulpstar said:
If you bring in the DUP, you need Sinn Fein in as well.Scrapheap_as_was said:Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/if-youre-going-to-have-seven-parties-in-the-tv-debates-youve-got-to-include-the-dup/0 -
I do wonder if we're suddenly going to see 18 CONSERVATIVE candidates pop up in Northern Ireland seats...0
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Debates look even more unlikely IMO.
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John Looney must be regretting his crazy decision to defect...FrancisUrquhart said:
At this rate, the Monster Raving Loony Party will be in the debates.Scrapheap_as_was said:Nick Robinson@bbcnickrobinson·5 mins5 minutes ago
For avoidance of doubt -@DUPleader never in TV debates proposals. He's now demanding to know why as got more seats than Plaid, SNP & Greens
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That's my definition of a slightly below par performanceNeil said:
Joint candidates with the UUP. They managed to reduce the UUP to zero seats.RobD said:
Are the Blues not standing in NI? I thought they did in 2010 (although performed slightly below par!).Pulpstar said:
None of the parties in the debate is standing in Northern Ireland. OK - the Greens might be, just have a DUP/SF/Alliance/Green debate in NI.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Perhaps... I think this is spot on though.Pulpstar said:
If you bring in the DUP, you need Sinn Fein in as well.Scrapheap_as_was said:Will need the DUP in as well. If 3's a crowd, what is 8?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/if-youre-going-to-have-seven-parties-in-the-tv-debates-youve-got-to-include-the-dup/
Con, Lab, LD, UKIP are all standing in Wales and Scotland.
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I can easily see "Unfortunately Natalie Bennett has been taken seriously ill, and so we have Caroline Lucas standing in for her"Pulpstar said:
Is there still time for the Greens to change leader back to Caroline though :P ?Neil said:"We see such sessions take place in the early stages of the US presidential election primaries and have so many on the stage hardly makes for good TV"
Are you kidding? It's brilliant TV. Much better than the Presidential debates.0 -
That article on the DUP is correct, if Con + LD doesn't add up to 323, the DUP are almost certainly going to be the party that props them up. It's probably something in the region of 40% that DUP will be involved in the make up of the next government, yet they're excluded above a party that only has a chance in one seat.0
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LD won't deal with DUP.Artist said:That article on the DUP is correct, if Con + LD doesn't add up to 323, the DUP are almost certainly going to be the party that props them up. It's probably something in the region of 40% that DUP will be involved in the make up of the next government, yet they're excluded above a party that only has a chance in one seat.
And it must be way below 40%.0 -
The obvious thing to do with these debates is to have an all parties one, a major parties one, and a prime ministerial one. Oh well, these will do. Let's hope Cameron the Cowardly doesn't run away again!0
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No ...... homeopathy will prevent such an eventuality.Anorak said:
I can easily see "Unfortunately Natalie Bennett has been taken seriously ill, and so we have Caroline Lucas standing in for her"Pulpstar said:
Is there still time for the Greens to change leader back to Caroline though :P ?Neil said:"We see such sessions take place in the early stages of the US presidential election primaries and have so many on the stage hardly makes for good TV"
Are you kidding? It's brilliant TV. Much better than the Presidential debates.0 -
It's hard to see the DUP in coalition. The risks to NI are too great.Artist said:That article on the DUP is correct, if Con + LD doesn't add up to 323, the DUP are almost certainly going to be the party that props them up. It's probably something in the region of 40% that DUP will be involved in the make up of the next government, yet they're excluded above a party that only has a chance in one seat.
The Shinners would then find themselves, by extension, in coalition with the British Government!
The boyos who haven't gone away you know, would then have a very good reason to come back, you know...0 -
Cameron statement on Brittan:
“Leon Brittan was a dedicated and fiercely intelligent public servant. As a central figure in Margaret Thatcher’s government, he helped her transform our country for the better by giving distinguished service as Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Home Secretary and Secretary of State for Trade and Industry. He went on to play a leading role at the European Commission where he did so much to promote free trade in Europe and across the world. More recently, he made an active contribution to the House of Lords. My thoughts are with Leon’s family and friends at this sad time.”
Very, um, distant and factual. For some reason.0 -
I don't think there's anything obvious about these debates - except that they make more sense in a Presidential system than a Parliamentary one.Socrates said:The obvious thing to do with these debates is to have an all parties one, a major parties one, and a prime ministerial one. Oh well, these will do. Let's hope Cameron the Cowardly doesn't run away again!
Given the various quirks and foibles of the British political system it was always going to get messy trying to use an essentially Presidential format within our different democratic system.0 -
I said "seriously ill" so she'll need some of those (insane) ear candles, too.OldKingCole said:
No ...... homeopathy will prevent such an eventuality.Anorak said:
I can easily see "Unfortunately Natalie Bennett has been taken seriously ill, and so we have Caroline Lucas standing in for her"Pulpstar said:
Is there still time for the Greens to change leader back to Caroline though :P ?Neil said:"We see such sessions take place in the early stages of the US presidential election primaries and have so many on the stage hardly makes for good TV"
Are you kidding? It's brilliant TV. Much better than the Presidential debates.0 -
Re: Greens Leftie female allergic to soap under hot studio lights....0
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The best way for an incumbent govt to win is to be ahead in the polls going into the election and its leader to avoid falling over in a fit during the campaign or be caught looking up womens' skirts. If they can turn Little Mo into Big Mo in the process then so much the better.welshowl said:This seems a reasonable proposal. Cam should do it. Ducking it will not look good now. Can't imagine Nick and Ed thrilled, though yet again the SNP come up smelling of roses.
I rapidly thinking there will be loads of losers on May the 7th and one winner - the SNP (bit ironic if they end up being the only ones happy at the outcome of the election in a country they want to abolish)
I do not actually see how anybody can 'lose' in a 7-sided debate, which must be something that suits Cameron since he has the most to lose.
It's pretty sad that we are talking so much about debates which are not actually going to be debates at all. Big mistake to start them in the first place.0 -
You missed "hairy" and "flatulent" from that stereotype.TCPoliticalBetting said:Re: Greens Leftie female allergic to soap under hot studio lights....
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Seven participants is certainly not too many for a debate. It is, of course, probably several too many for an argument though. As I'd much rather see a debate than an argument I'm happy enough with the idea.0
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Given that it's a hard world out there, perhaps something like an all night poker session would do the trick. Or a chess contest? Invite Prince Charles too.0
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Adam Boulton has freely recited the allegations against Brittan this afternoon.Anorak said:Cameron statement on Brittan:
“Leon Brittan was a dedicated and fiercely intelligent public servant. As a central figure in Margaret Thatcher’s government, he helped her transform our country for the better by giving distinguished service as Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Home Secretary and Secretary of State for Trade and Industry. He went on to play a leading role at the European Commission where he did so much to promote free trade in Europe and across the world. More recently, he made an active contribution to the House of Lords. My thoughts are with Leon’s family and friends at this sad time.”
Very, um, distant and factual. For some reason.0 -
A lurker here commenting in reference to the legitimacy of any DUP participation:
Some Conservative candidates have already been selected in NI seats.
It should also be noted that the SDLP and Alliance are affiliated with Labour and the Lib Dems respectively.
Also, I don’t think Sinn Fein would have to be included because they refuse to take up their seats at Westminster.
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A proper debate requires back and forth. That's entirely why Cameron the Cowardly wanted to avoid one. His soundbites would get torn apart.Steven_Whaley said:Seven participants is certainly not too many for a debate. It is, of course, probably several too many for an argument though. As I'd much rather see a debate than an argument I'm happy enough with the idea.
But he's got what he wanted now. If he runs away again it'll look truly pathetic.0 -
Liberating for the media when someone karks it, isn't it. Innuendo, rumour and smears are back in play! Hooray for ratings/sales!RodCrosby said:
Adam Boulton has freely recited the allegations against Brittan this afternoon.Anorak said:Cameron statement on Brittan:
“Leon Brittan was a dedicated and fiercely intelligent public servant. As a central figure in Margaret Thatcher’s government, he helped her transform our country for the better by giving distinguished service as Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Home Secretary and Secretary of State for Trade and Industry. He went on to play a leading role at the European Commission where he did so much to promote free trade in Europe and across the world. More recently, he made an active contribution to the House of Lords. My thoughts are with Leon’s family and friends at this sad time.”
Very, um, distant and factual. For some reason.0 -
What noncense.0
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Oh, He'll find a way out. No doubt they are planning one as we speak.Socrates said:
A proper debate requires back and forth. That's entirely why Cameron the Cowardly wanted to avoid one. His soundbites would get torn apart.Steven_Whaley said:Seven participants is certainly not too many for a debate. It is, of course, probably several too many for an argument though. As I'd much rather see a debate than an argument I'm happy enough with the idea.
But he's got what he wanted now. If he runs away again it'll look truly pathetic.
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Amazing the different reaction on this thread compared to OGH's one on the big mistake Cammo had made in refusing the first debate approach.....
That one was a keeper.0 -
What was Farage's excuse for running away from the UKIP Carnival in Croydon? Perhaps that one could be recycled.rottenborough said:
Oh, He'll find a way out. No doubt they are planning one as we speak.Socrates said:
A proper debate requires back and forth. That's entirely why Cameron the Cowardly wanted to avoid one. His soundbites would get torn apart.Steven_Whaley said:Seven participants is certainly not too many for a debate. It is, of course, probably several too many for an argument though. As I'd much rather see a debate than an argument I'm happy enough with the idea.
But he's got what he wanted now. If he runs away again it'll look truly pathetic.
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Funny thing is I don't think being in the debate helps the SNP, however being out of the debates significantly harms them.0
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Immigrants clogging up the Tube.TheWatcher said:
What was Farage's excuse for running away from the UKIP Carnival in Croydon? Perhaps that one could be recycled.rottenborough said:
Oh, He'll find a way out. No doubt they are planning one as we speak.Socrates said:
A proper debate requires back and forth. That's entirely why Cameron the Cowardly wanted to avoid one. His soundbites would get torn apart.Steven_Whaley said:Seven participants is certainly not too many for a debate. It is, of course, probably several too many for an argument though. As I'd much rather see a debate than an argument I'm happy enough with the idea.
But he's got what he wanted now. If he runs away again it'll look truly pathetic.0 -
It was all "an anti-semitic plot by MI5" apparently.Anorak said:
Liberating for the media when someone karks it, isn't it. Innuendo, rumour and smears are back in play! Hooray for ratings/sales!RodCrosby said:
Adam Boulton has freely recited the allegations against Brittan this afternoon.Anorak said:Cameron statement on Brittan:
“Leon Brittan was a dedicated and fiercely intelligent public servant. As a central figure in Margaret Thatcher’s government, he helped her transform our country for the better by giving distinguished service as Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Home Secretary and Secretary of State for Trade and Industry. He went on to play a leading role at the European Commission where he did so much to promote free trade in Europe and across the world. More recently, he made an active contribution to the House of Lords. My thoughts are with Leon’s family and friends at this sad time.”
Very, um, distant and factual. For some reason.
Those pesky anti-semites again. They're everywhere, obviously...0 -
Next up - the staging struggles.
Or not
Lib Dems reject the new proposals.....
James Chapman (Mail)@jameschappers·2 mins2 minutes ago
.@LibDems reject broadcasters' proposals: 'As a party of government, we must be able to defend our record in all the TV debates' #GE20150 -
What allegations could there possibly be?RodCrosby said:
Adam Boulton has freely recited the allegations against Brittan this afternoon.Anorak said:Cameron statement on Brittan:
“Leon Brittan was a dedicated and fiercely intelligent public servant. As a central figure in Margaret Thatcher’s government, he helped her transform our country for the better by giving distinguished service as Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Home Secretary and Secretary of State for Trade and Industry. He went on to play a leading role at the European Commission where he did so much to promote free trade in Europe and across the world. More recently, he made an active contribution to the House of Lords. My thoughts are with Leon’s family and friends at this sad time.”
Very, um, distant and factual. For some reason.
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Predictably LD's now complaining:
BuzzFeed UK Politics @BuzzFeedUKPol 2m2 minutes ago
Lib Dems demand to take part in all four TV debates: “as a party of government, we must be able to defend our record in all the TV debates"0 -
Might split Labour's vote in Scotland, lure some of the 2010 LD-to-Labour switchers away to pastures new. But broadly I agree: there's only one way to go from their current polling.Alistair said:Funny thing is I don't think being in the debate helps the SNP, however being out of the debates significantly harms them.
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Dave looks on, smiles, and pours himself another glass of Petrus.Tissue_Price said:Predictably LD's now complaining:
BuzzFeed UK Politics @BuzzFeedUKPol 2m2 minutes ago
Lib Dems demand to take part in all four TV debates: “as a party of government, we must be able to defend our record in all the TV debates"0 -
it allows them to finally pass on all those late night stories they've heard for years and never been able to repeat... I've heard enough stories about Mr Brittan from enough different sources that unless there is smoke without fire...Anorak said:
Liberating for the media when someone karks it, isn't it. Innuendo, rumour and smears are back in play! Hooray for ratings/sales!RodCrosby said:
Adam Boulton has freely recited the allegations against Brittan this afternoon.Anorak said:Cameron statement on Brittan:
“Leon Brittan was a dedicated and fiercely intelligent public servant. As a central figure in Margaret Thatcher’s government, he helped her transform our country for the better by giving distinguished service as Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Home Secretary and Secretary of State for Trade and Industry. He went on to play a leading role at the European Commission where he did so much to promote free trade in Europe and across the world. More recently, he made an active contribution to the House of Lords. My thoughts are with Leon’s family and friends at this sad time.”
Very, um, distant and factual. For some reason.0 -
7 7 4 4 perhaps.0
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Put leaders of all parties in a house for 6 weeks.
Each day snippets of the most interesting fights are shown on TV.
At the end of each week, the public vote which leader they want out.
Whoever is left after the 6 weeks gets to be PM.
Might work?
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Is the suggestion for ONE Miliband-Cameron face-off held jointly by Sky and Channel 4, or two separate ones?0
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Clever move broadcasters. It is quite easy to create a reasonable explanation to include UKIP without the Greens, or UKIP and the Greens without the more regional focused parties, but they've gone for the all out approach (excepting the NI parties, which with inclusion of PC makes less sense, especially if one of them could play a role in coalition arrangements) and while I personally think that is too many, it'll be interesting to see how Cameron tries to back out again, and if he succeeds.
Maybe, but they should have thought about that before having them in the first place and making such a big deal out of itFlightpath said:
Big mistake to start them in the first place.welshowl said:This seems a reasonable proposal. Cam should do it. Ducking it will not look good now. Can't imagine Nick and Ed thrilled, though yet again the SNP come up smelling of roses.
I rapidly thinking there will be loads of losers on May the 7th and one winner - the SNP (bit ironic if they end up being the only ones happy at the outcome of the election in a country they want to abolish)
Not my personal preference, but now that they've suggested one with all the major and minor GB parties (barring George of course), and not any incidental ones, rather than two free for alls, it seems sensible to follow the course you suggest.Socrates said:The obvious thing to do with these debates is to have an all parties one, a major parties one, and a prime ministerial one.
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It was obvious that a four way was never a goer and empty chairing an idle threat. It would have suited Ed and Nigel down to the ground but a seven way has very little in it for either of them.Scrapheap_as_was said:Amazing the different reaction on this thread compared to OGH's one on the big mistake Cammo had made in refusing the first debate approach.....
That one was a keeper.
What surprised me most was that so many people on this forum couldn't see that it was a win win for Cameron.
All things considered the debates look even less likely to happen than before.
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But weren't they happy not to be in all the debates when it was a 5-3-2 proposal?Scrapheap_as_was said:Next up - the staging struggles.
Or not
Lib Dems reject the new proposals.....
James Chapman (Mail)@jameschappers·2 mins2 minutes ago
.@LibDems reject broadcasters' proposals: 'As a party of government, we must be able to defend our record in all the TV debates' #GE2015
Lib Dem in U-turn shocker!0 -
Socrates
"A proper debate requires back and forth. That's entirely why Cameron the Cowardly wanted to avoid one. His soundbites would get torn apart."
Extraordinary decision by Cameron. The advantage he has in a two or three way debate is his standing as PM. With seven this advantage is lost. He just becomes one of a crowd.
I'm surprised with his media background he wasn't savvy enough to see this worst of all outcomes happening.0 -
Exactly as I predicted an hour ago!Scrapheap_as_was said:Next up - the staging struggles.
Or not
Lib Dems reject the new proposals.....
James Chapman (Mail)@jameschappers·2 mins2 minutes ago
.@LibDems reject broadcasters' proposals: 'As a party of government, we must be able to defend our record in all the TV debates' #GE2015
The thing is - how can they object? They can't refuse to turn up to a debate they have not been invited to!0 -
I'm not sure I can stop laughing enough to actually type a response to this one.Tissue_Price said:Predictably LD's now complaining:
BuzzFeed UK Politics @BuzzFeedUKPol 2m2 minutes ago
Lib Dems demand to take part in all four TV debates: “as a party of government, we must be able to defend our record in all the TV debates"0 -
If Cameron and Miliband now back the proposals (which remains to be seen) Clegg can screech all he wants...Charles said:
But weren't they happy not to be in all the debates when it was a 5-3-2 proposal?Scrapheap_as_was said:Next up - the staging struggles.
Or not
Lib Dems reject the new proposals.....
James Chapman (Mail)@jameschappers·2 mins2 minutes ago
.@LibDems reject broadcasters' proposals: 'As a party of government, we must be able to defend our record in all the TV debates' #GE2015
Lib Dem in U-turn shocker!0 -
The leader of 'Keep Sun Page 3' also wants to take part in the debates.
Shes got some front !0 -
In any case Nick Clegg has said he'll accept whatever the broadcasters propose. As has Ed Miliband. As has Nigel Farage.Charles said:
But weren't they happy not to be in all the debates when it was a 5-3-2 proposal?Scrapheap_as_was said:Next up - the staging struggles.
Or not
Lib Dems reject the new proposals.....
James Chapman (Mail)@jameschappers·2 mins2 minutes ago
.@LibDems reject broadcasters' proposals: 'As a party of government, we must be able to defend our record in all the TV debates' #GE2015
Lib Dem in U-turn shocker!
Like I said, Round 1 to Dave.0 -
So Nick is accepting them, while the LibDems reject the proposals.Richard_Nabavi said:
In any case Nick Clegg has said he'll accept whatever the broadcasters propose. As has Ed Milioband. As has Nigel Farage.Charles said:
But weren't they happy not to be in all the debates when it was a 5-3-2 proposal?Scrapheap_as_was said:Next up - the staging struggles.
Or not
Lib Dems reject the new proposals.....
James Chapman (Mail)@jameschappers·2 mins2 minutes ago
.@LibDems reject broadcasters' proposals: 'As a party of government, we must be able to defend our record in all the TV debates' #GE2015
Lib Dem in U-turn shocker!
Like I said, Round 1 to Dave.
Is there something we don't know?0 -
Does Roger exist or is this a sort of spoof labour luvvy profile?Roger said:Socrates
"A proper debate requires back and forth. That's entirely why Cameron the Cowardly wanted to avoid one. His soundbites would get torn apart."
Extraordinary decision by Cameron. The advantage he has in a two or three way debate is his standing as PM. With seven this advantage is lost. He just becomes one of a crowd.
I'm surprised with his media background he wasn't savvy enough to see this worst of all outcomes happening.
I favour the 10-1 format, that would do nicely for Dave.0 -
It's about Major Parties vs Major Parties.JohnD said:A lurker here commenting in reference to the legitimacy of any DUP participation:
Some Conservative candidates have already been selected in NI seats.
It should also be noted that the SDLP and Alliance are affiliated with Labour and the Lib Dems respectively.
Also, I don’t think Sinn Fein would have to be included because they refuse to take up their seats at Westminster.
The rule should be simple. All the Major Parties in a Constituent Country or None in a UK wide debate. This proposal meets that simple rule. No Major Party will be disadvantaged in seeing its Major Party opponents given hours of primetime and TV news coverage that it is denied.
NI is sufficiently different that no Major Party there is in the debates, so no Major Party is being disadvantaged and the slight advantage minor parties get is effectively meaningless.0 -
Far worse for Ed and Nigel. They are the ones who need to debate Cameron without all that background noise. Whats in it for Labour or UKIP.Roger said:Socrates
"A proper debate requires back and forth. That's entirely why Cameron the Cowardly wanted to avoid one. His soundbites would get torn apart."
Extraordinary decision by Cameron. The advantage he has in a two or three way debate is his standing as PM. With seven this advantage is lost. He just becomes one of a crowd.
I'm surprised with his media background he wasn't savvy enough to see this worst of all outcomes happening.
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Not sure whether posted already.
Key info from Anthony Wells re Scottish Panelbase poll which showed SNP -4, Lab +4:
"On top of that, when tables for the Panelbase poll appeared it turned out that the voting intention question wasn’t asked first, it was asked after a question about whether or not falling oil prices damaged the economic case for Scottish independence, so the SNP fall in that first poll may be a question ordering effect rather than a genuine change"0 -
He's got what a lot of people wanted - myself included. I hoped he'd achieve this result even if he didn't hope to do so himself. I agree that he can't run away from it now.Socrates said:
A proper debate requires back and forth. That's entirely why Cameron the Cowardly wanted to avoid one. His soundbites would get torn apart.
But he's got what he wanted now. If he runs away again it'll look truly pathetic.
As for the structure of the debate - I'm sure there will be plenty of back and forth but I hope it will be done in a civilized way. For starters I think the lecterns should go. I'd rather see them all sat around a big table. More inclusive and less confrontational.
(Edited to change the word podiums to lecterns. I don't know why I wrote podiums.)0 -
Dave will agree to this, Greens, SNP and PC tearing lumps out of Labour's core support base among cosmopolitan voters, Scots and Welsh people.
It would be a major coup for the PM to get the three leaders who Ed fears most into the first debate.0 -
A crowd where all six of the other participants will be attacking him to various degrees, more than will be the case with Miliband. Who knows how Clegg will decide to play it but I imagine the Greens/SNP/PC/Labour will all compete to see who can criticize him the most, and Farage will seek any opportunity to tear strips off him as well. Undermining Miliband will be a goal of the others too no doubt, but one way to do that is to rough Cameron up worse than Miliband manages. Perhaps it will leech votes from impressed Labour voters, but it could equally see Cameron looking terrible - when so many shots will be made at him, some are bound to hit home.Roger said:
Extraordinary decision by Cameron. The advantage he has in a two or three way debate is his standing as PM. With seven this advantage is lost. He just becomes one of a crowd.0 -
What about Mike Hancock.
SHOORLY he must be in the debates too.0 -
What happens if the LibDems refuse to take part in the 7 UP challenge?0
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@Spectator_CH: TV debates: Cameron sits comfortably as smaller parties complain http://t.co/kqsmtsG9Iy by @isabelhardman0
