Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Why Starmer’s pivot might actually lose him votes not gain them – politicalbetting.com

1246

Comments

  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,166

    Leon said:

    Pity me. I now have to drive 19,389 miles to pick up my older daughter from university - who cleverly chose the university which is, on the British mainland, the furthest possible from her doting father

    I don't pity you. A long drive with Test Match Special for company on the first day of summer?* I'm wading through bad handwriting trying to see if my students listened to anything I said in this years lectures. I'd rather be driving to Wick and back.

    *First test match of the summer = first day of summer for me.
    I'm off to Trent Bridge tomorrow. Zimbabwe notwithstanding, I'm enjoyably excited.

  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 248

    algarkirk said:

    At 02:25 BST Mr Justice Goose granted "interim relief" to Chagossian Bertrice Pompe who had brought a case against the Foreign Office.

    In his order, the judge said: "The defendant shall take no conclusive or legally binding step to conclude its negotiations concerning the possible transfer of the British Indian Ocean Territory, also known as the Chagos Archipelago, to a foreign government or bind itself as to the particular terms of any such transfer."

    Somewhat amusing.

    I presume the claimant brought an interesting legal ground, other than Starmer is a traitor.
    The fact that the government can be told what to do in the middle of the night by a single high court judge, instantly obey it, refrain from attacking the judge, and make its case in a civilized way before court in due course and accept its conclusions used to be something taken for granted.

    The whole Boris 'Enemies of the State' and Prorogation period muddied the waters quite a bit and meant for a time that a proper relationship of judiciary and executive could not be taken for granted.

    Trumpian approaches to all this now make us look like an ark of civilization in an anarchic universe. Labour should be commended for this return to normality.

    I think most of the public seriously underestimate how good our senior judiciary are.
    Or as Lord Sumption called it the empire of law. Yes rule of law is crucial but at what point does it makes things impossible to function. And those that have access to it will always be disproportionately wealthy or knowledgeable.

    I would also like to believe our judiciary are great but have an increasing sense that there are more and more activists in their number with left wing views.
    I think there are more and more radical right social media accounts pushing a line imported from the US about activist judges. However, our judiciary is appointed in an entirely different way to in the US and, if anything, remain more conservative than the general population.
    'More conservative than the general population.' Evidence for this? It does seem as though we are in a situation where most of the criticism of the judiciary is coming from the right and not the left. Why is this if they are generally quite conservative? And in a post Corbyn era it isn't as if the left are just dry academic bores.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,348

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    Can you be a trans-Somali?
    I believe you can present as one.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,031
    Last time the bond markets starting causing trouble for Trump, he passed the tariffs.

    This time, it seems as if he might have to pause the tax cuts, too.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,633
    edited 10:38AM
    Here's a mystery for PB: we're currently under a housing "crisis", with young people unable to get on the housing ladder even while average household spending on housing is the lowest since the 80s. There is massive controversy about plastering the countryside with new build detached housing.

    Yet here, a 10-minute cycle from the centre of one of the UK's biggest cities, 5 minutes from a beautiful park, some of the best infrastructure you'll find anywhere in the UK, a waterfront location with a tall ship, you find this:



    What's going on? Within 20 minutes of here you have acres and acres of free derelict land.
    https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9cfdd87310fe4d1fb9a13f76befe8b81
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,348

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    Brum is a very different place to that I knew in the 80's.
    It is to the one I knew in the late nineties, early 0’s. My sister is in Acocks Green not far from where the old dog track was.

    It was a real eye opener when I was there for Blues last game of the season. First time I’d been to the holy ground since we lost to Preston years ago and Bowyer got sent off for nutting someone.

    It wasn’t the litter but the junk dumped like mattresses and fridges, and the Palestinian flags flying everywhere.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,031
    *Paused* the tariffs, that said originally there. His team will be wondering what he has to do.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,447

    Leon said:

    Pity me. I now have to drive 19,389 miles to pick up my older daughter from university - who cleverly chose the university which is, on the British mainland, the furthest possible from her doting father

    So nothing in next week's Gazette about helicopters then?
    A motoring YouTuber would seize the opportunity for a "challenge" to do the trip on one tank of fuel. I think they all got the idea from watching Jeremy Clarkson do it several times on Top Gear.
    2nd gen V6 Panamera has a 90L tank. That would be an easy non-stopper if the pilot were comfortable pissing in bottles at 90mph+.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,493

    *Paused* the tariffs, that said originally there. His team will be wondering what he has to do.

    Gain some control of US gov't spending too. No idea who can do that, Musk looks like he's chipped a toothpick into Mt Rushmore at considerable reputational cost to himself.
    Can't see many takers for that particular job.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,633
    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    Thank you
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,284
    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.youtube.com/live/Vpc4faGi900?feature=shared Notts full council meeting if anyone is interested.

    I'll have a listen.

    Though TBH I'd rather have a summary from someone who had watched it.

    There was a "watch party" for the County Durham one.

    (Update: why is the Notts one in a classroom? I assume something to do with County Hall closing down, and the new place opening.)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,883
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    Brum is a very different place to that I knew in the 80's.
    It is to the one I knew in the late nineties, early 0’s. My sister is in Acocks Green not far from where the old dog track was.

    It was a real eye opener when I was there for Blues last game of the season. First time I’d been to the holy ground since we lost to Preston years ago and Bowyer got sent off for nutting someone.

    It wasn’t the litter but the junk dumped like mattresses and fridges, and the Palestinian flags flying everywhere.
    My first ever house was on The Avenue, Acocks Green. £16,800, three bedrooms with about a 900 foot garden down to the railway line...
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,031
    Pulpstar said:

    *Paused* the tariffs, that said originally there. His team will be wondering what he has to do.

    Gain some control of US gov't spending too. No idea who can do that, Musk looks like he's chipped a toothpick into Mt Rushmore at considerable reputational cost to himself.
    Can't see many takers for that particular job.
    I think the markets aren't going to tolerate his tax cuts for many of his billionaire friends, ironically.

    There's also the vast increases in the military budget he launched last time, not just other domestic areas, too.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,316

    algarkirk said:

    At 02:25 BST Mr Justice Goose granted "interim relief" to Chagossian Bertrice Pompe who had brought a case against the Foreign Office.

    In his order, the judge said: "The defendant shall take no conclusive or legally binding step to conclude its negotiations concerning the possible transfer of the British Indian Ocean Territory, also known as the Chagos Archipelago, to a foreign government or bind itself as to the particular terms of any such transfer."

    Somewhat amusing.

    I presume the claimant brought an interesting legal ground, other than Starmer is a traitor.
    The fact that the government can be told what to do in the middle of the night by a single high court judge, instantly obey it, refrain from attacking the judge, and make its case in a civilized way before court in due course and accept its conclusions used to be something taken for granted.

    The whole Boris 'Enemies of the State' and Prorogation period muddied the waters quite a bit and meant for a time that a proper relationship of judiciary and executive could not be taken for granted.

    Trumpian approaches to all this now make us look like an ark of civilization in an anarchic universe. Labour should be commended for this return to normality.

    I think most of the public seriously underestimate how good our senior judiciary are.
    Or as Lord Sumption called it the empire of law. Yes rule of law is crucial but at what point does it makes things impossible to function. And those that have access to it will always be disproportionately wealthy or knowledgeable.

    I would also like to believe our judiciary are great but have an increasing sense that there are more and more activists in their number with left wing views.
    I think there are more and more radical right social media accounts pushing a line imported from the US about activist judges. However, our judiciary is appointed in an entirely different way to in the US and, if anything, remain more conservative than the general population.
    'More conservative than the general population.' Evidence for this? It does seem as though we are in a situation where most of the criticism of the judiciary is coming from the right and not the left. Why is this if they are generally quite conservative? And in a post Corbyn era it isn't as if the left are just dry academic bores.
    Judges are more male, more white and more privately-educated than the general population, all things associated with being more conservative.

    More criticism is coming from the right because the right has shifted from pro-establishment conservatism to an anti-establishment radical right stance, and the right in the UK is importing US talking points uncritically.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,756




    To be fair, if you could leave Somalia you would.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,633

    algarkirk said:

    At 02:25 BST Mr Justice Goose granted "interim relief" to Chagossian Bertrice Pompe who had brought a case against the Foreign Office.

    In his order, the judge said: "The defendant shall take no conclusive or legally binding step to conclude its negotiations concerning the possible transfer of the British Indian Ocean Territory, also known as the Chagos Archipelago, to a foreign government or bind itself as to the particular terms of any such transfer."

    Somewhat amusing.

    I presume the claimant brought an interesting legal ground, other than Starmer is a traitor.
    The fact that the government can be told what to do in the middle of the night by a single high court judge, instantly obey it, refrain from attacking the judge, and make its case in a civilized way before court in due course and accept its conclusions used to be something taken for granted.

    The whole Boris 'Enemies of the State' and Prorogation period muddied the waters quite a bit and meant for a time that a proper relationship of judiciary and executive could not be taken for granted.

    Trumpian approaches to all this now make us look like an ark of civilization in an anarchic universe. Labour should be commended for this return to normality.

    I think most of the public seriously underestimate how good our senior judiciary are.
    Or as Lord Sumption called it the empire of law. Yes rule of law is crucial but at what point does it makes things impossible to function. And those that have access to it will always be disproportionately wealthy or knowledgeable.

    I would also like to believe our judiciary are great but have an increasing sense that there are more and more activists in their number with left wing views.
    As I pointed out in my Blob article, Jacob Rees Mogg and David Starkey both believe that the separation of the UK Supreme Court from the House of Lords was a mistake. This is Britain not the US and the Court should kneel to Parliament, not vice-versa.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/09/28/the-blob/
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,348

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    Brum is a very different place to that I knew in the 80's.
    It is to the one I knew in the late nineties, early 0’s. My sister is in Acocks Green not far from where the old dog track was.

    It was a real eye opener when I was there for Blues last game of the season. First time I’d been to the holy ground since we lost to Preston years ago and Bowyer got sent off for nutting someone.

    It wasn’t the litter but the junk dumped like mattresses and fridges, and the Palestinian flags flying everywhere.
    My first ever house was on The Avenue, Acocks Green. £16,800, three bedrooms with about a 900 foot garden down to the railway line...
    My sister is the other side of the Warwick Road and has the same. Her train line is the one that comes from Stratford. It merges onto the line you backed onto at Tyseley.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,031
    The U.S. military budget was already bloatedly huge, probably beyond actual usefulness, before, and Trump made it his mission, to build on that.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,309

    algarkirk said:

    At 02:25 BST Mr Justice Goose granted "interim relief" to Chagossian Bertrice Pompe who had brought a case against the Foreign Office.

    In his order, the judge said: "The defendant shall take no conclusive or legally binding step to conclude its negotiations concerning the possible transfer of the British Indian Ocean Territory, also known as the Chagos Archipelago, to a foreign government or bind itself as to the particular terms of any such transfer."

    Somewhat amusing.

    I presume the claimant brought an interesting legal ground, other than Starmer is a traitor.
    The fact that the government can be told what to do in the middle of the night by a single high court judge, instantly obey it, refrain from attacking the judge, and make its case in a civilized way before court in due course and accept its conclusions used to be something taken for granted.

    The whole Boris 'Enemies of the State' and Prorogation period muddied the waters quite a bit and meant for a time that a proper relationship of judiciary and executive could not be taken for granted.

    Trumpian approaches to all this now make us look like an ark of civilization in an anarchic universe. Labour should be commended for this return to normality.

    I think most of the public seriously underestimate how good our senior judiciary are.
    Or as Lord Sumption called it the empire of law. Yes rule of law is crucial but at what point does it makes things impossible to function. And those that have access to it will always be disproportionately wealthy or knowledgeable.

    I would also like to believe our judiciary are great but have an increasing sense that there are more and more activists in their number with left wing views.
    I think there are more and more radical right social media accounts pushing a line imported from the US about activist judges. However, our judiciary is appointed in an entirely different way to in the US and, if anything, remain more conservative than the general population.
    'More conservative than the general population.' Evidence for this? It does seem as though we are in a situation where most of the criticism of the judiciary is coming from the right and not the left. Why is this if they are generally quite conservative? And in a post Corbyn era it isn't as if the left are just dry academic bores.
    Judges are more male, more white and more privately-educated than the general population, all things associated with being more conservative.

    More criticism is coming from the right because the right has shifted from pro-establishment conservatism to an anti-establishment radical right stance, and the right in the UK is importing US talking points uncritically.
    Two comments: Ad hominem arguments about judges being more 'conservative' because of their background are just that. They are not evidence.

    Secondly, if 'right' can mean 'pro-establishment conservative' and 'anti-establishment radical' then it does no useful work whatsoever and should be consigned to history.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,985
    Eabhal said:

    Here's a mystery for PB: we're currently under a housing "crisis", with young people unable to get on the housing ladder even while average household spending on housing is the lowest since the 80s. There is massive controversy about plastering the countryside with new build detached housing.

    Yet here, a 10-minute cycle from the centre of one of the UK's biggest cities, 5 minutes from a beautiful park, some of the best infrastructure you'll find anywhere in the UK, a waterfront location with a tall ship, you find this:



    What's going on? Within 20 minutes of here you have acres and acres of free derelict land.
    https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9cfdd87310fe4d1fb9a13f76befe8b81

    The average household spending on housing has been remarkably stable, its not fallen, but that average is warped by significant amounts paying £0 towards rent and mortgage, and significant amounts paying almost half their income towards it.

    House price to earnings ratios are a better indicator on costs, and they are much worse than they were in the 1990s.

    Getting house price to earnings ratios back to 1990s levels will require mammoth construction outstripping increases in demand.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,545
    Barnesian said:

    Leon said:

    Pity me. I now have to drive 19,389 miles to pick up my older daughter from university - who cleverly chose the university which is, on the British mainland, the furthest possible from her doting father

    It's only 12,000 miles to Beijing and back so you must be going on an interesting detour!
    His navigational ability is up there with his political predictions and IQ
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,949
    edited 11:00AM

    Leon said:

    Pity me. I now have to drive 19,389 miles to pick up my older daughter from university - who cleverly chose the university which is, on the British mainland, the furthest possible from her doting father

    So nothing in next week's Gazette about helicopters then?
    Actualy the car hire company have just upgraded me to a BYD SUV

    First time driving an avowedly Chinese car. So far I've only taken it from St Pancras to Camden, so - early days

    But the initial impression is: wow, what a nice car

    Reviews tell me it is mediocre in the driving, but given that I'm paying about £30 a day for what feels decidedly luxe...
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,517

    algarkirk said:

    At 02:25 BST Mr Justice Goose granted "interim relief" to Chagossian Bertrice Pompe who had brought a case against the Foreign Office.

    In his order, the judge said: "The defendant shall take no conclusive or legally binding step to conclude its negotiations concerning the possible transfer of the British Indian Ocean Territory, also known as the Chagos Archipelago, to a foreign government or bind itself as to the particular terms of any such transfer."

    Somewhat amusing.

    I presume the claimant brought an interesting legal ground, other than Starmer is a traitor.
    The fact that the government can be told what to do in the middle of the night by a single high court judge, instantly obey it, refrain from attacking the judge, and make its case in a civilized way before court in due course and accept its conclusions used to be something taken for granted.

    The whole Boris 'Enemies of the State' and Prorogation period muddied the waters quite a bit and meant for a time that a proper relationship of judiciary and executive could not be taken for granted.

    Trumpian approaches to all this now make us look like an ark of civilization in an anarchic universe. Labour should be commended for this return to normality.

    I think most of the public seriously underestimate how good our senior judiciary are.
    Or as Lord Sumption called it the empire of law. Yes rule of law is crucial but at what point does it makes things impossible to function. And those that have access to it will always be disproportionately wealthy or knowledgeable.

    I would also like to believe our judiciary are great but have an increasing sense that there are more and more activists in their number with left wing views.
    There will be. They come from the general population.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,309
    viewcode said:

    algarkirk said:

    At 02:25 BST Mr Justice Goose granted "interim relief" to Chagossian Bertrice Pompe who had brought a case against the Foreign Office.

    In his order, the judge said: "The defendant shall take no conclusive or legally binding step to conclude its negotiations concerning the possible transfer of the British Indian Ocean Territory, also known as the Chagos Archipelago, to a foreign government or bind itself as to the particular terms of any such transfer."

    Somewhat amusing.

    I presume the claimant brought an interesting legal ground, other than Starmer is a traitor.
    The fact that the government can be told what to do in the middle of the night by a single high court judge, instantly obey it, refrain from attacking the judge, and make its case in a civilized way before court in due course and accept its conclusions used to be something taken for granted.

    The whole Boris 'Enemies of the State' and Prorogation period muddied the waters quite a bit and meant for a time that a proper relationship of judiciary and executive could not be taken for granted.

    Trumpian approaches to all this now make us look like an ark of civilization in an anarchic universe. Labour should be commended for this return to normality.

    I think most of the public seriously underestimate how good our senior judiciary are.
    Or as Lord Sumption called it the empire of law. Yes rule of law is crucial but at what point does it makes things impossible to function. And those that have access to it will always be disproportionately wealthy or knowledgeable.

    I would also like to believe our judiciary are great but have an increasing sense that there are more and more activists in their number with left wing views.
    As I pointed out in my Blob article, Jacob Rees Mogg and David Starkey both believe that the separation of the UK Supreme Court from the House of Lords was a mistake. This is Britain not the US and the Court should kneel to Parliament, not vice-versa.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/09/28/the-blob/
    It was a mistake - typical of Blair -because it failed to take account of tradition, custom and organic development.

    Parliament is the supreme law maker, the SC is the supreme declarer of what the law is. Neither defers to the other. Each is a final court of appeal against any potential tyranny by the other. So far, it works.

    No system is immune from the tyranny of enough bad people with enough power. See USA passim. Our system is not immune either. Nor can it be. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,316
    Pulpstar said:

    *Paused* the tariffs, that said originally there. His team will be wondering what he has to do.

    Gain some control of US gov't spending too. No idea who can do that, Musk looks like he's chipped a toothpick into Mt Rushmore at considerable reputational cost to himself.
    Can't see many takers for that particular job.
    Musk has worsened the country's finances as cuts to the IRS have reduced income.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,493

    The U.S. military budget was already bloatedly huge, probably beyond actual usefulness, before, and Trump made it his mission, to build on that.

    Some of that trillion dollars in action in Suffolk this morning:

    https://www.youtube.com/live/UUyYQdtUWOY
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 135
    Amazed to see not one comment about the 2 Israelis murdered this morning in Washington.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,118
    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 248

    algarkirk said:

    At 02:25 BST Mr Justice Goose granted "interim relief" to Chagossian Bertrice Pompe who had brought a case against the Foreign Office.

    In his order, the judge said: "The defendant shall take no conclusive or legally binding step to conclude its negotiations concerning the possible transfer of the British Indian Ocean Territory, also known as the Chagos Archipelago, to a foreign government or bind itself as to the particular terms of any such transfer."

    Somewhat amusing.

    I presume the claimant brought an interesting legal ground, other than Starmer is a traitor.
    The fact that the government can be told what to do in the middle of the night by a single high court judge, instantly obey it, refrain from attacking the judge, and make its case in a civilized way before court in due course and accept its conclusions used to be something taken for granted.

    The whole Boris 'Enemies of the State' and Prorogation period muddied the waters quite a bit and meant for a time that a proper relationship of judiciary and executive could not be taken for granted.

    Trumpian approaches to all this now make us look like an ark of civilization in an anarchic universe. Labour should be commended for this return to normality.

    I think most of the public seriously underestimate how good our senior judiciary are.
    Or as Lord Sumption called it the empire of law. Yes rule of law is crucial but at what point does it makes things impossible to function. And those that have access to it will always be disproportionately wealthy or knowledgeable.

    I would also like to believe our judiciary are great but have an increasing sense that there are more and more activists in their number with left wing views.
    I think there are more and more radical right social media accounts pushing a line imported from the US about activist judges. However, our judiciary is appointed in an entirely different way to in the US and, if anything, remain more conservative than the general population.
    'More conservative than the general population.' Evidence for this? It does seem as though we are in a situation where most of the criticism of the judiciary is coming from the right and not the left. Why is this if they are generally quite conservative? And in a post Corbyn era it isn't as if the left are just dry academic bores.
    Judges are more male, more white and more privately-educated than the general population, all things associated with being more conservative.

    More criticism is coming from the right because the right has shifted from pro-establishment conservatism to an anti-establishment radical right stance, and the right in the UK is importing US talking points uncritically.
    I think that is a poor answer. If you are concerned with background you could as easily say that most judges are privileged and we know that is associated with cultural leftism. So that's it. As for the right adopting US talking points, I'm far from convinced that the US is having that much influence on the right in this country. Decisions by judges get public attention because media sources believe conservative voters will be irked by the judge's thinking.

    If anything it is the LEFT in this country that is more obviously adopting US ideas and terminology - be it trans, BLM - often without a hint of nuance, witness the BIPOC nonsense. The same things produced a backlash in the US and the same then happens here too. You seem like the classic example of the thinker who looks for evidence to support pre-determined conclusions rather than the other way around.

    Anyway it is useful to engage with someone like yourself so I can be aware of the overly confident certainties of the high brow cultural elite whereas Roger represents the more middle brow version.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,048
    scampi25 said:

    Amazed to see not one comment about the 2 Israelis murdered this morning in Washington.

    At least one person mentioned it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,060
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    457,000 is probably more than the entire 1990s.

    Yes. Nearly half a million people. It’s still an absolutely gob smacking number. It is higher - I believe - than any year in all British history outside the Boriswave? If not it is very close

    Labour would be well advised not to boast about it

    The polls show Brits want basically zero or very little (or even negative) net migration. My sense, likewise, is that voters REALLY mean it this time. I actually have some sympathy as Starmer tries to deliver this - because it is fiendishly hard without crippling the economy
    Net zero immigration for a period of 5 years, really probably net negative for a few of those years too. Deport illegals and asylum seekers, don't renew visas for low wage workers and push the salary minimum up to £50k. We need to become an island fortress.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,493
    Eabhal said:

    Here's a mystery for PB: we're currently under a housing "crisis", with young people unable to get on the housing ladder even while average household spending on housing is the lowest since the 80s. There is massive controversy about plastering the countryside with new build detached housing.

    Yet here, a 10-minute cycle from the centre of one of the UK's biggest cities, 5 minutes from a beautiful park, some of the best infrastructure you'll find anywhere in the UK, a waterfront location with a tall ship, you find this:



    What's going on? Within 20 minutes of here you have acres and acres of free derelict land.
    https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9cfdd87310fe4d1fb9a13f76befe8b81

    Cowlairs Park had a "Masterplan" laid out in 2019.

    https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/media/1805/Cowlairs-Masterplan-Report-30-July-2019/pdf/Cowlairs_Masterplan_Report_30_July_2019.pdf?m=1669295185563
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,949
    A Trumpite take on the UK

    "If you want to renew your love of America, spend three days in the UK. You will kiss the ground when you get back home."

    https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1925310554501259709
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 248
    scampi25 said:

    Amazed to see not one comment about the 2 Israelis murdered this morning in Washington.

    I don't mind admitting that I was politically radicalised by the reaction to the 7th October attacks. Both the support that the attacks garnered and the way a shaken Jewish population in the UK felt abandoned by the political and media establishment that was usually so keen to express its virtue.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,267
    Pulpstar said:

    *Paused* the tariffs, that said originally there. His team will be wondering what he has to do.

    Gain some control of US gov't spending too. No idea who can do that, Musk looks like he's chipped a toothpick into Mt Rushmore at considerable reputational cost to himself.
    Can't see many takers for that particular job.
    They have huge scope to cut military spending if they are serious about becoming more isolationist.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,891
    scampi25 said:

    Amazed to see not one comment about the 2 Israelis murdered this morning in Washington.

    What comment do you want someone to make?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,633
    An illustration on why it is so difficult to predict a Pope.

    "Every Papal Conclave Since 1958 and My Prediction for the Next Pope", UsefulCharts, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlwmXDK3NX8 , 21 mins.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,348

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    That’s prior to the Boriswave. From 2011 to 2021 the Somali population grew by just under four fold. Carry that forward to 2031were looking at 650,000.

    That’s a lot of social housing based on current trends assuming they follow through.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 810

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    Something has gone wrong with the ONS chart there, I'm sure. The Birmingham council website has it as 1.5%. For it to be 11% basically 80% of those 176000 Somalis in the UK would have to live in Birmingham. Some digging to be done.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 248
    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on the UK

    "If you want to renew your love of America, spend three days in the UK. You will kiss the ground when you get back home."

    https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1925310554501259709

    We don't like them and they don't like us. However they should remember that the trans radicalism was a US import (and we've actually managed to deal with it in a relatively grown up fashion now) and the rot in their universities is a good deal worse than ours. Voters in the UK feel there is a problem and generally don't think Trump is the answer. Our refusal to kiss the ring might be another explanation for his haughtiness.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 810
    Birmingham Somalis: yes, the 11.3% is out by a factor of 10. Downloaded the data from here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/datasets/somalipopulationsbyageandsexinenglandandwalescensus2021

    Birmingham population 1,124,995, Somali population 19,925. That's 1.77%.


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,685
    It isn't Starmer's pivot that will gain him votes but the raw numbers and the fact the data out today shows net migration to the UK halved last year will be a big boost to the Labour government when taking on Farage.

    In reality of course the cut is down to Rishi and Cleverly and their tightening of the rules around visa wage requirements and dependents brought in. Whether Kemi gets much credit remains to be seen
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cr4zzvq2p33t
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 810

    Birmingham Somalis: yes, the 11.3% is out by a factor of 10. Downloaded the data from here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/datasets/somalipopulationsbyageandsexinenglandandwalescensus2021

    Birmingham population 1,124,995, Somali population 19,925. That's 1.77%.


    @Leon @Casino_Royale
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,685

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on the UK

    "If you want to renew your love of America, spend three days in the UK. You will kiss the ground when you get back home."

    https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1925310554501259709

    We don't like them and they don't like us. However they should remember that the trans radicalism was a US import (and we've actually managed to deal with it in a relatively grown up fashion now) and the rot in their universities is a good deal worse than ours. Voters in the UK feel there is a problem and generally don't think Trump is the answer. Our refusal to kiss the ring might be another explanation for his haughtiness.
    Depends, Essex for example is generally pro American still and in places like Clacton even pro Trump.

    California, NYC and New England also tend to be more pro Starmer's UK than their country under Trump
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,447

    scampi25 said:

    Amazed to see not one comment about the 2 Israelis murdered this morning in Washington.

    What comment do you want someone to make?
    Generic outrage linked to a broader theme of the societal decline of the West would be my guess.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,267

    Birmingham Somalis: yes, the 11.3% is out by a factor of 10. Downloaded the data from here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/datasets/somalipopulationsbyageandsexinenglandandwalescensus2021

    Birmingham population 1,124,995, Somali population 19,925. That's 1.77%.

    Phew! Somali invasion over.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 248
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on the UK

    "If you want to renew your love of America, spend three days in the UK. You will kiss the ground when you get back home."

    https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1925310554501259709

    We don't like them and they don't like us. However they should remember that the trans radicalism was a US import (and we've actually managed to deal with it in a relatively grown up fashion now) and the rot in their universities is a good deal worse than ours. Voters in the UK feel there is a problem and generally don't think Trump is the answer. Our refusal to kiss the ring might be another explanation for his haughtiness.
    Depends, Essex for example is generally pro American still and in places like Clacton even pro Trump.

    California, NYC and New England also tend to be more pro Starmer's UK than their country under Trump
    Clacton may be pro Trump but that's one very specific location.

    To be clear but 'they' I was referring to Trumpsters (or whatever the collective noun is meant to be....)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,545
    The Tories need to STFU about prisons given they did bugger all for 14 years .
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,267

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on the UK

    "If you want to renew your love of America, spend three days in the UK. You will kiss the ground when you get back home."

    https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1925310554501259709

    We don't like them and they don't like us. However they should remember that the trans radicalism was a US import (and we've actually managed to deal with it in a relatively grown up fashion now) and the rot in their universities is a good deal worse than ours. Voters in the UK feel there is a problem and generally don't think Trump is the answer. Our refusal to kiss the ring might be another explanation for his haughtiness.
    Depends, Essex for example is generally pro American still and in places like Clacton even pro Trump.

    California, NYC and New England also tend to be more pro Starmer's UK than their country under Trump
    Clacton may be pro Trump but that's one very specific location.

    To be clear but 'they' I was referring to Trumpsters (or whatever the collective noun is meant to be....)
    How about rabble? A rabble of Trumpsters.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 248
    Dura_Ace said:

    scampi25 said:

    Amazed to see not one comment about the 2 Israelis murdered this morning in Washington.

    What comment do you want someone to make?
    Generic outrage linked to a broader theme of the societal decline of the West would be my guess.
    To be fair you probably wouldn't have been top of anyone's list for people likely to mention it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,895
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on the UK

    "If you want to renew your love of America, spend three days in the UK. You will kiss the ground when you get back home."

    https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1925310554501259709

    We don't like them and they don't like us. However they should remember that the trans radicalism was a US import (and we've actually managed to deal with it in a relatively grown up fashion now) and the rot in their universities is a good deal worse than ours. Voters in the UK feel there is a problem and generally don't think Trump is the answer. Our refusal to kiss the ring might be another explanation for his haughtiness.
    Depends, Essex for example is generally pro American still and in places like Clacton even pro Trump.

    California, NYC and New England also tend to be more pro Starmer's UK than their country under Trump
    Clacton may be pro Trump but that's one very specific location.

    To be clear but 'they' I was referring to Trumpsters (or whatever the collective noun is meant to be....)
    How about rabble? A rabble of Trumpsters.
    A conspiracy?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,737

    Eabhal said:

    Here's a mystery for PB: we're currently under a housing "crisis", with young people unable to get on the housing ladder even while average household spending on housing is the lowest since the 80s. There is massive controversy about plastering the countryside with new build detached housing.

    Yet here, a 10-minute cycle from the centre of one of the UK's biggest cities, 5 minutes from a beautiful park, some of the best infrastructure you'll find anywhere in the UK, a waterfront location with a tall ship, you find this:



    What's going on? Within 20 minutes of here you have acres and acres of free derelict land.
    https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9cfdd87310fe4d1fb9a13f76befe8b81

    The average household spending on housing has been remarkably stable, its not fallen, but that average is warped by significant amounts paying £0 towards rent and mortgage, and significant amounts paying almost half their income towards it.

    House price to earnings ratios are a better indicator on costs, and they are much worse than they were in the 1990s.

    Getting house price to earnings ratios back to 1990s levels will require mammoth construction outstripping increases in demand.
    In addition, we could limit multiples on mortgages, or get housewives back in the kitchen, or halve housing benefit, to dampen demand; or increase supply by banning second and holiday homes or get jobs back in the left-behind towns so people want to move there. These are not all serious policy proposals but they do illustrate the housing cost crisis has several moving parts.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,267
    Dura_Ace said:

    scampi25 said:

    Amazed to see not one comment about the 2 Israelis murdered this morning in Washington.

    What comment do you want someone to make?
    Generic outrage linked to a broader theme of the societal decline of the West would be my guess.
    And evidence that the Gaza operation has not yet achieved its objective. More bombing required.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,342
    nico67 said:

    The Tories need to STFU about prisons given they did bugger all for 14 years .

    You want to close down debate then
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,521
    edited 11:37AM
    nico67 said:

    The Tories need to STFU about prisons given they did bugger all for 14 years .

    That's not true - for a number of years they actively planned for an increase in prison population which would outstrip their plans for building new prison places by quite a large factor.

    Hence the current mess.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,493

    Eabhal said:

    Here's a mystery for PB: we're currently under a housing "crisis", with young people unable to get on the housing ladder even while average household spending on housing is the lowest since the 80s. There is massive controversy about plastering the countryside with new build detached housing.

    Yet here, a 10-minute cycle from the centre of one of the UK's biggest cities, 5 minutes from a beautiful park, some of the best infrastructure you'll find anywhere in the UK, a waterfront location with a tall ship, you find this:



    What's going on? Within 20 minutes of here you have acres and acres of free derelict land.
    https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9cfdd87310fe4d1fb9a13f76befe8b81

    The average household spending on housing has been remarkably stable, its not fallen, but that average is warped by significant amounts paying £0 towards rent and mortgage, and significant amounts paying almost half their income towards it.

    House price to earnings ratios are a better indicator on costs, and they are much worse than they were in the 1990s.

    Getting house price to earnings ratios back to 1990s levels will require mammoth construction outstripping increases in demand.
    In addition, we could limit multiples on mortgages, or get housewives back in the kitchen, or halve housing benefit, to dampen demand; or increase supply by banning second and holiday homes or get jobs back in the left-behind towns so people want to move there. These are not all serious policy proposals but they do illustrate the housing cost crisis has several moving parts.
    Eliminating landlord benefit would neither change the housing stock nor change the numbers of people chasing such stock......
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,521
    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on the UK

    "If you want to renew your love of America, spend three days in the UK. You will kiss the ground when you get back home."

    https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1925310554501259709

    MAGA in name only.
    The genuine article wouldn't dream of crossing the US border.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,545

    nico67 said:

    The Tories need to STFU about prisons given they did bugger all for 14 years .

    You want to close down debate then
    Debate is fine but they’re making out as if the government has a choice . There’s no space left and soon the whole system will collapse .
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,737
    edited 11:41AM
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pity me. I now have to drive 19,389 miles to pick up my older daughter from university - who cleverly chose the university which is, on the British mainland, the furthest possible from her doting father

    So nothing in next week's Gazette about helicopters then?
    Actualy the car hire company have just upgraded me to a BYD SUV

    First time driving an avowedly Chinese car. So far I've only taken it from St Pancras to Camden, so - early days

    But the initial impression is: wow, what a nice car

    Reviews tell me it is mediocre in the driving, but given that I'm paying about £30 a day for what feels decidedly luxe...
    The average car reviewer is a racing driver manqué but the average car owner wants to be able to drive to Tesco or his daughter's university smoothly and without surprises. Performance vs ergonomics. Feedback vs turning on the heated seats without looking down.

    EVs are smooth and therefore even the cheapest ones feel more luxurious than a petrol or diesel car costing £10,000 more (as that money goes in hiding an ICE's noise and vibration). And that's without the glow from saving the planet.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,342
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The Tories need to STFU about prisons given they did bugger all for 14 years .

    You want to close down debate then
    Debate is fine but they’re making out as if the government has a choice . There’s no space left and soon the whole system will collapse .
    Government always have choices

    They could have chosen not to take away the WFP but didn't and are regretting that decision now
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,448

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,143

    Birmingham Somalis: yes, the 11.3% is out by a factor of 10. Downloaded the data from here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/datasets/somalipopulationsbyageandsexinenglandandwalescensus2021

    Birmingham population 1,124,995, Somali population 19,925. That's 1.77%.


    Too late - that (inadvertent) lie has gone halfway round the world by now. Or at least as far as Camden and Clacton.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,737
    Pulpstar said:

    Eabhal said:

    Here's a mystery for PB: we're currently under a housing "crisis", with young people unable to get on the housing ladder even while average household spending on housing is the lowest since the 80s. There is massive controversy about plastering the countryside with new build detached housing.

    Yet here, a 10-minute cycle from the centre of one of the UK's biggest cities, 5 minutes from a beautiful park, some of the best infrastructure you'll find anywhere in the UK, a waterfront location with a tall ship, you find this:



    What's going on? Within 20 minutes of here you have acres and acres of free derelict land.
    https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9cfdd87310fe4d1fb9a13f76befe8b81

    The average household spending on housing has been remarkably stable, its not fallen, but that average is warped by significant amounts paying £0 towards rent and mortgage, and significant amounts paying almost half their income towards it.

    House price to earnings ratios are a better indicator on costs, and they are much worse than they were in the 1990s.

    Getting house price to earnings ratios back to 1990s levels will require mammoth construction outstripping increases in demand.
    In addition, we could limit multiples on mortgages, or get housewives back in the kitchen, or halve housing benefit, to dampen demand; or increase supply by banning second and holiday homes or get jobs back in the left-behind towns so people want to move there. These are not all serious policy proposals but they do illustrate the housing cost crisis has several moving parts.
    Eliminating landlord benefit would neither change the housing stock nor change the numbers of people chasing such stock......
    It would reduce the amount tenants could bid up the rent.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,493

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,545

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The Tories need to STFU about prisons given they did bugger all for 14 years .

    You want to close down debate then
    Debate is fine but they’re making out as if the government has a choice . There’s no space left and soon the whole system will collapse .
    Government always have choices

    They could have chosen not to take away the WFP but didn't and are regretting that decision now
    So they can miraculously build a new prison overnight . There are no choices left , either more space is made available or soon police won’t be able to arrest people and court cases will have to be suspended.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 248
    edited 11:44AM
    Just to change the subject:

    Given the governments in Hungary and Slovakia are people aware that without Ukraine, China would have its tentacles stretching right into central Europe?
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 135

    scampi25 said:

    Amazed to see not one comment about the 2 Israelis murdered this morning in Washington.

    What comment do you want someone to make?
    The silence speaks volumes
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,448

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pity me. I now have to drive 19,389 miles to pick up my older daughter from university - who cleverly chose the university which is, on the British mainland, the furthest possible from her doting father

    So nothing in next week's Gazette about helicopters then?
    Actualy the car hire company have just upgraded me to a BYD SUV

    First time driving an avowedly Chinese car. So far I've only taken it from St Pancras to Camden, so - early days

    But the initial impression is: wow, what a nice car

    Reviews tell me it is mediocre in the driving, but given that I'm paying about £30 a day for what feels decidedly luxe...
    The average car reviewer is a racing driver manqué but the average car owner wants to be able to drive to Tesco or his daughter's university smoothly and without surprises. Performance vs ergonomics. Feedback vs turning on the heated seats without looking down.

    EVs are smooth and therefore even the cheapest ones feel more luxurious than a petrol or diesel car costing £10,000 more (as that money goes in hiding an ICE's noise and vibration). And that's without the glow from saving the planet.
    True dat.

    Two personal bugbears of car 'fashion' are low profile tyres and bucket seats. Both fine if you're doing track circuits but a literal pain in the arse for everyday driving.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,342
    Court lifts interim injunction and government can conclude the deal
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,448
    edited 11:47AM
    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Correct

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    False
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,633
    For all those of you who enjoy Andre Dutra's series on POTUSes, his video on Andrew Jackson (POTUS7) is out:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV0j-a1hs10 (48 mins)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,891
    edited 11:52AM
    scampi25 said:

    scampi25 said:

    Amazed to see not one comment about the 2 Israelis murdered this morning in Washington.

    What comment do you want someone to make?
    The silence speaks volumes
    Go on - what is the implication you are groping for? That we are all happy that two young people have been murdered? Or something else? Make your point.
    Frankly its a horrific event in another country, and a country, that sadly, has more than its share of murders. If this was in London it would be a big story on PB.

    So come on, make your point.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 810
    sarissa said:

    Birmingham Somalis: yes, the 11.3% is out by a factor of 10. Downloaded the data from here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/datasets/somalipopulationsbyageandsexinenglandandwalescensus2021

    Birmingham population 1,124,995, Somali population 19,925. That's 1.77%.


    Too late - that (inadvertent) lie has gone halfway round the world by now. Or at least as far as Camden and Clacton.
    Sadly, yes.

    It's one of the lessons hammered home on More or Less: if a figure is quoted, stop and think if it makes sense before accepting it. If it sounds weird, then check. Sometimes it turns out to be true, which is fair enough. But something that sounds incredible, more often than not is incredible. Sadly, some people don't stop and think before they swallow the bait.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 810
    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    See my post above.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,891

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Correct

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    False
    Has someone misconstrued 176,000 being equivalent to 11.3 % of the Birmingham population? Or is it just a stuff up?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,985
    I assume he meant the equivalent of 11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,348
    edited 11:54AM

    Birmingham Somalis: yes, the 11.3% is out by a factor of 10. Downloaded the data from here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/datasets/somalipopulationsbyageandsexinenglandandwalescensus2021

    Birmingham population 1,124,995, Somali population 19,925. That's 1.77%.


    🤷‍♂️



    Unless is 11% of all Somalis in the U.K., but it does not make that clear.

    Still if it is only a few thousand then that’s less pressure on social housing even if the number goes up four fold by 2031, as it did between 2011 and 2021.

    We really need to build more homes.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,166

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pity me. I now have to drive 19,389 miles to pick up my older daughter from university - who cleverly chose the university which is, on the British mainland, the furthest possible from her doting father

    So nothing in next week's Gazette about helicopters then?
    Actualy the car hire company have just upgraded me to a BYD SUV

    First time driving an avowedly Chinese car. So far I've only taken it from St Pancras to Camden, so - early days

    But the initial impression is: wow, what a nice car

    Reviews tell me it is mediocre in the driving, but given that I'm paying about £30 a day for what feels decidedly luxe...
    The average car reviewer is a racing driver manqué but the average car owner wants to be able to drive to Tesco or his daughter's university smoothly and without surprises. Performance vs ergonomics. Feedback vs turning on the heated seats without looking down.

    EVs are smooth and therefore even the cheapest ones feel more luxurious than a petrol or diesel car costing £10,000 more (as that money goes in hiding an ICE's noise and vibration). And that's without the glow from saving the planet.
    True dat.

    Two personal bugbears of car 'fashion' are low profile tyres and bucket seats. Both fine if you're doing track circuits but a literal pain in the arse for everyday driving.
    Yes, I'd echo that. What I want is a cheap car to own and run with enough comfy seats for everyone in my house. 90% of bells and whistles are unnecessary.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,493

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Correct

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    False
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Figure 2
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,985
    Taz said:

    Birmingham Somalis: yes, the 11.3% is out by a factor of 10. Downloaded the data from here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/datasets/somalipopulationsbyageandsexinenglandandwalescensus2021

    Birmingham population 1,124,995, Somali population 19,925. That's 1.77%.


    🤷‍♂️



    Unless is 11% of all Somalis in the U.K., but it does not make that clear.
    "Percentage of those who identify as Somali" - that would seem to make clear that it is 11% of Somalis live in Brum.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,348

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Correct

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    False
    Has someone misconstrued 176,000 being equivalent to 11.3 % of the Birmingham population? Or is it just a stuff up?
    I’ve posted the screengrab from the govt website.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247

    Court lifts interim injunction and government can conclude the deal

    Did Starmer offer the judge Lundy island and a lifetime supply of Puffin steaks?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,493
    edited 11:57AM
    Solved it: 11.3% of the Somali population is in the Birmingham LTLA

    The figures sum to 100% from the map.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 810
    edited 11:58AM
    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Correct

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    False
    Has someone misconstrued 176,000 being equivalent to 11.3 % of the Birmingham population? Or is it just a stuff up?
    I’ve posted the screengrab from the govt website.
    It's WRONG. I downloaded th e ONS data set, and it's 1.7%. THe link is in my earlier post at 12:23. I think they've mistyped a digit.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,891
    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Correct

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    False
    Has someone misconstrued 176,000 being equivalent to 11.3 % of the Birmingham population? Or is it just a stuff up?
    I’ve posted the screengrab from the govt website.
    Its not well presented data but that appears to be the % of people claiming to be Somali living in Brum, not that 11.3% of Brum population is Somali. (Which would be insane).
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,985
    Downloaded the data set, it sums to 100%.

    The data as it says is the percentage of those who identify as Somali, not the percentage of who in the area identifies as Somali.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,348

    Court lifts interim injunction and government can conclude the deal

    Did Starmer offer the judge Lundy island and a lifetime supply of Puffin steaks?
    Is Puffin meat nice ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,493
    edited 12:00PM

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Correct

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    False
    Has someone misconstrued 176,000 being equivalent to 11.3 % of the Birmingham population? Or is it just a stuff up?
    I’ve posted the screengrab from the govt website.
    It's WRONG. I downloaded th e ONS data set, and it's 1.7%. THe inlk is in my earlier post. I think they've mistyped a digit.
    No, the map is showing the distribution of the Somali population within England and Wales. 11.3% of the Somali population within England and Wales resides within the Birmingham council area.
    Because Birmingham is the largest council population in England and Wales it makes sense.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,448
    Pulpstar said:

    Solved it: 11.3% of the Somali population is in the Birmingham LTLA

    The figures sum to 100% from the map.

    Now that makes sense.

    An apologies to all innumerate PB posters - this was clearly a case of innumerate civil servants (or more likely management consultants to whom the Home Office / LA have outsourced this.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,267

    I assume he meant the equivalent of 11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali.

    It probably comes from that noddy habit of expressing migration numbers as "equivalent to another (insert town or city of choice)."
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,891

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Correct

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    False
    Has someone misconstrued 176,000 being equivalent to 11.3 % of the Birmingham population? Or is it just a stuff up?
    I’ve posted the screengrab from the govt website.
    It's WRONG. I downloaded th e ONS data set, and it's 1.7%. THe link is in my earlier post at 12:23. I think they've mistyped a digit.
    No - its just not clearly presented - they mean that 11.3% of the UK Somali population lives in Brum, not that 11.3% of Brums population is Somali.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,891

    Pulpstar said:

    Solved it: 11.3% of the Somali population is in the Birmingham LTLA

    The figures sum to 100% from the map.

    Now that makes sense.

    An apologies to all innumerate PB posters - this was clearly a case of innumerate civil servants (or more likely management consultants to whom the Home Office / LA have outsourced this.
    Its very poor data presentation by the ONS.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,348

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Correct

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    False
    Has someone misconstrued 176,000 being equivalent to 11.3 % of the Birmingham population? Or is it just a stuff up?
    I’ve posted the screengrab from the govt website.
    It's WRONG. I downloaded th e ONS data set, and it's 1.7%. THe link is in my earlier post at 12:23. I think they've mistyped a digit.
    Looks like it. 11.3% seemed high for such a large urban conurbation.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,985

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Correct

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    False
    Has someone misconstrued 176,000 being equivalent to 11.3 % of the Birmingham population? Or is it just a stuff up?
    I’ve posted the screengrab from the govt website.
    It's WRONG. I downloaded th e ONS data set, and it's 1.7%. THe link is in my earlier post at 12:23. I think they've mistyped a digit.
    No - its just not clearly presented - they mean that 11.3% of the UK Somali population lives in Brum, not that 11.3% of Brums population is Somali.
    I think it is clearly presented.

    The percentage of those who identify as Somali in each ...

    That makes it clear that its out of those who identify as Somali. He misconstrued the data, but it is exactly what it says it is.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,284
    edited 12:04PM

    Leon said:

    Pity me. I now have to drive 19,389 miles to pick up my older daughter from university - who cleverly chose the university which is, on the British mainland, the furthest possible from her doting father

    So nothing in next week's Gazette about helicopters then?
    A motoring YouTuber would seize the opportunity for a "challenge" to do the trip on one tank of fuel. I think they all got the idea from watching Jeremy Clarkson do it several times on Top Gear.
    Last week it was reported that Dr Sarah Ruggins had done JOG - LE - JOG in five days, 11 hours, and 14 minutes .. on a cycle, taking the open record, and knocking 40% off the previous women's record. That's 650+ km per day.

    https://road.cc/content/news/sarah-ruggins-smashes-outright-joglejog-world-record-314037
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,891

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary stat revealed in the Commons


    “The true face of Labour.

    Foreign-both residents occupy 48% of London social housing.

    72% of Somalis live in social housing.

    When @CPhilpOfficial cited official statistics a Labour MP shouted he was “race baiting.”

    But when I invited him to say it on the record he bottled it:”

    https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1925465441561907611?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It is so mindboggling I wonder if it is true

    72%????

    "72% of Somalis in social housing" <> "72% of social housing are Somali"

    You need to cite the number of Somalis as well as the proportion. If we are talking about 5 Somalis, then that is different to 5,000,000 Somalis.
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    That's fucking mad.
    It's fucking wrong you mean.

    Who let the Innumerates out on PB today?

    It's official Office for National Statistics data ! @tlg86 Can you correct it ? :)
    Just over 176,000 ‘identify’ as Somali.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/somalipopulationsenglandandwales/census2021

    Correct

    11.3% of the population of Brum is Somali
    False
    Has someone misconstrued 176,000 being equivalent to 11.3 % of the Birmingham population? Or is it just a stuff up?
    I’ve posted the screengrab from the govt website.
    It's WRONG. I downloaded th e ONS data set, and it's 1.7%. THe link is in my earlier post at 12:23. I think they've mistyped a digit.
    No - its just not clearly presented - they mean that 11.3% of the UK Somali population lives in Brum, not that 11.3% of Brums population is Somali.
    I think it is clearly presented.

    The percentage of those who identify as Somali in each ...

    That makes it clear that its out of those who identify as Somali. He misconstrued the data, but it is exactly what it says it is.
    The fact that reasonably intelligent PBers took a while to work it out suggests otherwise.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247
    Taz said:



    Court lifts interim injunction and government can conclude the deal

    Did Starmer offer the judge Lundy island and a lifetime supply of Puffin steaks?
    Is Puffin meat nice ?
    Probably! Especially if it comes with real estate
Sign In or Register to comment.