Reform, no joy just division. Will Lowe tear us apart? – politicalbetting.com
The Metropolitan Police have today confirmed that they are dropping their investigation into the false allegations that I made threats against the Reform Party chairman.Full statement. pic.twitter.com/4teRw1j5kn
Another thing the political class gets wrong, because they can't resist commenting on it, is Israel/Palestine.
The view of the average British voter is that they're as bad as each other, and we should stay out of it. And consequently they're not especially interested.
So why does the government continue to support Israel with arms exports and RAF surveillance flights? Curious that they aren't following public opinion, particularly a Labour government.
If public opinion is that they're not interested, then why shouldn't we have arms exports? Arms exports are good for business and good for our economy, so there should be a very good reason to prevent them.
Seems the Government is following public opinion, just not loudmouth opinion.
The polling is pretty clear, and consistent with what CR said. 58:18 for opposing exports to Israel, with 40% for strongly opposing.
And that was April 2024. It will be even more overwhelming now.
So the percentage opposing arms to Israel is no more than the percentage of Londoners saying immigration is too high?
And I'd be skeptical about the nature of that polling data. I doubt many people are bring up arms to Israel as an issue unprompted.
I just think your understanding of "not getting involved" is quite different to everyone else's.
(They aren't bringing up housing either, despite how important you think that is)
As a general principle we believe in the concepts of trade and supporting our allies.
So engaging in trade and supporting our allies is "not getting involved".
Cutting off trade is getting involved, given our general principles.
It is strange to sell arms to a country led by someone we're obliged to arrest on suspicion of war crimes if he enters our country. A general principle of not doing that would seem more consistent.
Ridiculous over-reach by a "court" we should not be a part of any more with such absurd rulings.
Some good news from the conflict yesterday in that it seems that Israel may have got another leader of Hamas. Its funny how often many here were saying early on that Israel was in the wrong as they weren't going after the leaders are Hamas but don't say anything supportive when they do.
Of course that leader was again as Hamas routinely does using a hospital as a base, meaning Israel were forced to hit a hospital to get to him.
The problem with this conflict is that until Hamas is defeated there is nowhere safe for the Palestinians as Hamas turn everything, even hospitals, into legitimate targets by weaponising them as human shields.
You can make a logical argument for either - or indeed both! - of:
Leaving the ICC
Stopping arms sales to Israel
but being both a member and selling arms to someone for whom the court has an arrest warrant out for war crimes seems inconsistent. Either the law/court is an ass or we should halt weapons sales until Israel has a new leader. Or both.
It's more complicated than that.
The arms in question (at least those of any significance) are parts for the F35, for which the UK is the second largest supplier after the US. These go into a worldwide pool from which Israel is supplied (by the US).
Contractually, there's no way in which we can place restrictions on the use of those parts. We either continue to supply them, or leave the program.
"Foreign state investors would be allowed to hold stakes of up to 15% in British national newspapers, ministers are set to announce amid a two-year battle to resolve an impasse over The Daily Telegraph's ownership.
Sky News has learnt that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport could announce as soon as Thursday that the new limit is to be imposed following a consultation lasting several months."
Another thing the political class gets wrong, because they can't resist commenting on it, is Israel/Palestine.
The view of the average British voter is that they're as bad as each other, and we should stay out of it. And consequently they're not especially interested.
So why does the government continue to support Israel with arms exports and RAF surveillance flights? Curious that they aren't following public opinion, particularly a Labour government.
If public opinion is that they're not interested, then why shouldn't we have arms exports? Arms exports are good for business and good for our economy, so there should be a very good reason to prevent them.
Seems the Government is following public opinion, just not loudmouth opinion.
The polling is pretty clear, and consistent with what CR said. 58:18 for opposing exports to Israel, with 40% for strongly opposing.
And that was April 2024. It will be even more overwhelming now.
So the percentage opposing arms to Israel is no more than the percentage of Londoners saying immigration is too high?
And I'd be skeptical about the nature of that polling data. I doubt many people are bring up arms to Israel as an issue unprompted.
I just think your understanding of "not getting involved" is quite different to everyone else's.
(They aren't bringing up housing either, despite how important you think that is)
As a general principle we believe in the concepts of trade and supporting our allies.
So engaging in trade and supporting our allies is "not getting involved".
Cutting off trade is getting involved, given our general principles.
It is strange to sell arms to a country led by someone we're obliged to arrest on suspicion of war crimes if he enters our country. A general principle of not doing that would seem more consistent.
Ridiculous over-reach by a "court" we should not be a part of any more with such absurd rulings.
Some good news from the conflict yesterday in that it seems that Israel may have got another leader of Hamas. Its funny how often many here were saying early on that Israel was in the wrong as they weren't going after the leaders are Hamas but don't say anything supportive when they do.
Of course that leader was again as Hamas routinely does using a hospital as a base, meaning Israel were forced to hit a hospital to get to him.
The problem with this conflict is that until Hamas is defeated there is nowhere safe for the Palestinians as Hamas turn everything, even hospitals, into legitimate targets by weaponising them as human shields.
You can make a logical argument for either - or indeed both! - of:
Leaving the ICC
Stopping arms sales to Israel
but being both a member and selling arms to someone for whom the court has an arrest warrant out for war crimes seems inconsistent. Either the law/court is an ass or we should halt weapons sales until Israel has a new leader. Or both.
It's more complicated than that.
The arms in question (at least those of any significance) are parts for the F35, for which the UK is the second largest supplier after the US. These go into a worldwide pool from which Israel is supplied (by the US).
Contractually, there's no way in which we can place restrictions on the use of those parts. We either continue to supply them, or leave the program.
Which would be somewhat awkward...
Fair enough. I didn't know the details of this - which, being a proper PBer - I took as no bar to commenting on the issue
"Foreign state investors would be allowed to hold stakes of up to 15% in British national newspapers, ministers are set to announce amid a two-year battle to resolve an impasse over The Daily Telegraph's ownership.
Sky News has learnt that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport could announce as soon as Thursday that the new limit is to be imposed following a consultation lasting several months."
It appears Reform has a bad Atmosphere. Kemi won't respond because She's Lost Control.
(narrator: many years ago Viewcode once danced drunkenly to "She's Lost Control" in a Middlesbrough car park. "...AN SHEE SCREMED AAHHT KINKING ON UR SIDE AND SED SHEEZ LOST CONTRUL AGIN...". Oh happy days...)
Another thing the political class gets wrong, because they can't resist commenting on it, is Israel/Palestine.
The view of the average British voter is that they're as bad as each other, and we should stay out of it. And consequently they're not especially interested.
So why does the government continue to support Israel with arms exports and RAF surveillance flights? Curious that they aren't following public opinion, particularly a Labour government.
If public opinion is that they're not interested, then why shouldn't we have arms exports? Arms exports are good for business and good for our economy, so there should be a very good reason to prevent them.
Seems the Government is following public opinion, just not loudmouth opinion.
The polling is pretty clear, and consistent with what CR said. 58:18 for opposing exports to Israel, with 40% for strongly opposing.
And that was April 2024. It will be even more overwhelming now.
So the percentage opposing arms to Israel is no more than the percentage of Londoners saying immigration is too high?
And I'd be skeptical about the nature of that polling data. I doubt many people are bring up arms to Israel as an issue unprompted.
I just think your understanding of "not getting involved" is quite different to everyone else's.
(They aren't bringing up housing either, despite how important you think that is)
As a general principle we believe in the concepts of trade and supporting our allies.
So engaging in trade and supporting our allies is "not getting involved".
Cutting off trade is getting involved, given our general principles.
It is strange to sell arms to a country led by someone we're obliged to arrest on suspicion of war crimes if he enters our country. A general principle of not doing that would seem more consistent.
Ridiculous over-reach by a "court" we should not be a part of any more with such absurd rulings.
Some good news from the conflict yesterday in that it seems that Israel may have got another leader of Hamas. Its funny how often many here were saying early on that Israel was in the wrong as they weren't going after the leaders are Hamas but don't say anything supportive when they do.
Of course that leader was again as Hamas routinely does using a hospital as a base, meaning Israel were forced to hit a hospital to get to him.
The problem with this conflict is that until Hamas is defeated there is nowhere safe for the Palestinians as Hamas turn everything, even hospitals, into legitimate targets by weaponising them as human shields.
You can make a logical argument for either - or indeed both! - of:
Leaving the ICC
Stopping arms sales to Israel
but being both a member and selling arms to someone for whom the court has an arrest warrant out for war crimes seems inconsistent. Either the law/court is an ass or we should halt weapons sales until Israel has a new leader. Or both.
It's more complicated than that.
The arms in question (at least those of any significance) are parts for the F35, for which the UK is the second largest supplier after the US. These go into a worldwide pool from which Israel is supplied (by the US).
Contractually, there's no way in which we can place restrictions on the use of those parts. We either continue to supply them, or leave the program.
Which would be somewhat awkward...
Fair enough. I didn't know the details of this - which, being a proper PBer - I took as no bar to commenting on the issue
It's another downside of tying ourselves so closely to the US for the procurement of defence systems.
The F35 is a remarkable aircraft - but our versions are somewhat crippled (they still can't carry our most potent air to air and air to ground missiles, for example), and use of them in any given theatre is de facto subject to US approval.
I'm very uncomfortable supplying Israel with kit that's very probably being used to target civilians (however much that decision is out of our hands). But we are in no position to do anything about it - until we make other defence arrangements.
Another thing the political class gets wrong, because they can't resist commenting on it, is Israel/Palestine.
The view of the average British voter is that they're as bad as each other, and we should stay out of it. And consequently they're not especially interested.
So why does the government continue to support Israel with arms exports and RAF surveillance flights? Curious that they aren't following public opinion, particularly a Labour government.
If public opinion is that they're not interested, then why shouldn't we have arms exports? Arms exports are good for business and good for our economy, so there should be a very good reason to prevent them.
Seems the Government is following public opinion, just not loudmouth opinion.
The polling is pretty clear, and consistent with what CR said. 58:18 for opposing exports to Israel, with 40% for strongly opposing.
And that was April 2024. It will be even more overwhelming now.
So the percentage opposing arms to Israel is no more than the percentage of Londoners saying immigration is too high?
And I'd be skeptical about the nature of that polling data. I doubt many people are bring up arms to Israel as an issue unprompted.
I just think your understanding of "not getting involved" is quite different to everyone else's.
(They aren't bringing up housing either, despite how important you think that is)
As a general principle we believe in the concepts of trade and supporting our allies.
So engaging in trade and supporting our allies is "not getting involved".
Cutting off trade is getting involved, given our general principles.
It is strange to sell arms to a country led by someone we're obliged to arrest on suspicion of war crimes if he enters our country. A general principle of not doing that would seem more consistent.
Ridiculous over-reach by a "court" we should not be a part of any more with such absurd rulings.
Some good news from the conflict yesterday in that it seems that Israel may have got another leader of Hamas. Its funny how often many here were saying early on that Israel was in the wrong as they weren't going after the leaders are Hamas but don't say anything supportive when they do.
Of course that leader was again as Hamas routinely does using a hospital as a base, meaning Israel were forced to hit a hospital to get to him.
The problem with this conflict is that until Hamas is defeated there is nowhere safe for the Palestinians as Hamas turn everything, even hospitals, into legitimate targets by weaponising them as human shields.
You can make a logical argument for either - or indeed both! - of:
Leaving the ICC
Stopping arms sales to Israel
but being both a member and selling arms to someone for whom the court has an arrest warrant out for war crimes seems inconsistent. Either the law/court is an ass or we should halt weapons sales until Israel has a new leader. Or both.
It's more complicated than that.
The arms in question (at least those of any significance) are parts for the F35, for which the UK is the second largest supplier after the US. These go into a worldwide pool from which Israel is supplied (by the US).
Contractually, there's no way in which we can place restrictions on the use of those parts. We either continue to supply them, or leave the program.
Which would be somewhat awkward...
Fair enough. I didn't know the details of this - which, being a proper PBer - I took as no bar to commenting on the issue
Tbh, it's the surveillance flights that are harder to understand. That feels like direct facilitation, and a waste of a resource that would better used over the Baltic or Black Sea.
In some ways Farage has been vindicated in that Lowe probably was getting too carried away with social media so he was right to sideline him, but he seemed to revel too much in using the political dark arts to do it.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
... The highest UK court should be the Supreme Court and it should be subservient to Parliament. The rule of law is different to the rule of lawyers.
If the Supreme Court is subservient to Parliament, then it's not Supreme
(narrator: Parliament can function as a court if it wishes and IIRC it still has a small jail/holding area)
Neither is subservient to the other, nor should they be. Parliament is not subject to the Supreme Court, being in control of its own affairs, but notes that the SC's rulings on the law are binding on everyone and in legislating takes account of the SC's binding judgments. (Eg in the recent trans case in which the SC had the tough job of telling parliament what it meant when it legislated as parliament had no idea. Parliament is totally free to amend the legislation and notably isn't planning to).
The SC is not subservient to parliament in that parliament can legislate but cannot direct what the SC shall decide about its meaning.
In a mature and grown up democracy (unlike the current USA outfit) both sides try hard not to test the boundaries to the extreme. In the farcical Rwanda legislation the bit deeming Rwanda to be a'safe' country came close to this but its effect never got tested, thankfully.
OT, looking for advice from our seasoned travellers for a proposed trip to Sicily - a second day in Siracusa or a third day in Lipari? Already set on Cefalu and Stromboli.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
It depends on how this spat plays out.
If Lowe and Farage go all two scorpions in a bottle, tearing lumps out of each other via the courts for the next year or so, it's not going to do much for the party's prospects. And for now, that seems a bit more likely than a friendly chat over a pint to sort out their differences.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
... The highest UK court should be the Supreme Court and it should be subservient to Parliament. The rule of law is different to the rule of lawyers.
If the Supreme Court is subservient to Parliament, then it's not Supreme
(narrator: Parliament can function as a court if it wishes and IIRC it still has a small jail/holding area)
Time to extend the powers of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council to the United Kingdom.
Isn't the Supreme Court more or less the JCPC just not under that name?
Surely, in that case, it would be better to rename it to something less insufferably naff? Like (say) the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council?
Judicial Committee of the House of Lords has a nice ring to it. In its absence we should, IMO, be thankful that we have a Supreme Court, though naffly named, which is of such high quality.
SFAICS no other country is obliged to use them, sitting as the JCPC, as their highest court, but quite a few do.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
"Foreign state investors would be allowed to hold stakes of up to 15% in British national newspapers, ministers are set to announce amid a two-year battle to resolve an impasse over The Daily Telegraph's ownership.
Sky News has learnt that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport could announce as soon as Thursday that the new limit is to be imposed following a consultation lasting several months."
All this is a bit silly given the rate at which readership is declining. The game's moved.
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
Yes, Lowe would wish to align the party far more closely to MAGA, limiting its appeal.
... The highest UK court should be the Supreme Court and it should be subservient to Parliament. The rule of law is different to the rule of lawyers.
If the Supreme Court is subservient to Parliament, then it's not Supreme
(narrator: Parliament can function as a court if it wishes and IIRC it still has a small jail/holding area)
Time to extend the powers of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council to the United Kingdom.
Isn't the Supreme Court more or less the JCPC just not under that name?
Surely, in that case, it would be better to rename it to something less insufferably naff? Like (say) the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council?
Judicial Committee of the House of Lords has a nice ring to it. In its absence we should, IMO, be thankful that we have a Supreme Court, though naffly named, which is of such high quality.
SFAICS no other country is obliged to use them, sitting as the JCPC, as their highest court, but quite a few do.
I prefer the period when we had Law Lords, a bit like Time Lords.
... The highest UK court should be the Supreme Court and it should be subservient to Parliament. The rule of law is different to the rule of lawyers.
If the Supreme Court is subservient to Parliament, then it's not Supreme
(narrator: Parliament can function as a court if it wishes and IIRC it still has a small jail/holding area)
Neither is subservient to the other, nor should they be. Parliament is not subject to the Supreme Court, being in control of its own affairs, but notes that the SC's rulings on the law are binding on everyone and in legislating takes account of the SC's binding judgments. (Eg in the recent trans case in which the SC had the tough job of telling parliament what it meant when it legislated as parliament had no idea. Parliament is totally free to amend the legislation and notably isn't planning to).
The SC is not subservient to parliament in that parliament can legislate but cannot direct what the SC shall decide about its meaning.
In a mature and grown up democracy (unlike the current USA outfit) both sides try hard not to test the boundaries to the extreme. In the farcical Rwanda legislation the bit deeming Rwanda to be a'safe' country came close to this but its effect never got tested, thankfully.
The current case is an awkward one though. Government lawyers have acknowledged in their court submissions that the supply of F-35 components for potential use in Israel is in breach of the government's own arms export control laws. A point at dispute is whether the supply by UK of components into the F35 pool is sufficiently indirect, and our control over end use for stuff supplied to Israel by the US sufficiently attenuated, for the UK not to be in breach of those laws, given the overwhelming importance of the program for our national defence.
There's also the point that the judgment of matters of national security - which are undoubtedly at stake here - is one for the executive and not for the courts.
There are several things tangled up in the case, and it's really not a simple matter of Parliament is supreme / the courts are supreme, as there's no straightforward legal question to answer.
I suspect the court will back the government in the end, from sheer pragmatism.
... The highest UK court should be the Supreme Court and it should be subservient to Parliament. The rule of law is different to the rule of lawyers.
If the Supreme Court is subservient to Parliament, then it's not Supreme
(narrator: Parliament can function as a court if it wishes and IIRC it still has a small jail/holding area)
Neither is subservient to the other, nor should they be. Parliament is not subject to the Supreme Court, being in control of its own affairs, but notes that the SC's rulings on the law are binding on everyone and in legislating takes account of the SC's binding judgments. (Eg in the recent trans case in which the SC had the tough job of telling parliament what it meant when it legislated as parliament had no idea. Parliament is totally free to amend the legislation and notably isn't planning to).
The SC is not subservient to parliament in that parliament can legislate but cannot direct what the SC shall decide about its meaning.
In a mature and grown up democracy (unlike the current USA outfit) both sides try hard not to test the boundaries to the extreme. In the farcical Rwanda legislation the bit deeming Rwanda to be a'safe' country came close to this but its effect never got tested, thankfully.
The current case is an awkward one though. Government lawyers have acknowledged in their court submissions that the supply of F-35 components for potential use in Israel is in breach of the government's own arms export control laws. A point at dispute is whether the supply by UK of components into the F35 pool is sufficiently indirect, and our control over end use for stuff supplied to Israel by the US sufficiently attenuated, for the UK not to be in breach of those laws, given the overwhelming importance of the program for our national defence.
There's also the point that the judgment of matters of national security - which are undoubtedly at stake here - is one for the executive and not for the courts.
There are several things tangled up in the case, and it's really not a simple matter of Parliament is supreme / the courts are supreme, as there's no straightforward legal question to answer.
I suspect the court will back the government in the end, from sheer pragmatism.
maybe governments should just stop passing pointless grandstanding laws and make life easier for themselves
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
OT, looking for advice from our seasoned travellers for a proposed trip to Sicily - a second day in Siracusa or a third day in Lipari? Already set on Cefalu and Stromboli.
Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Ragusa. This is where Inspector Moltalbano is filmed. It is simply stunning. Not far from Syracuse in the South East of the Island.
Castebueno is not far from Cefalu up in the mountains but be careful of buses back to Cefalu they can finish the service quite early.
Palermo is worth a look, although it is as run down as the Rhondda Valley.
It is not the 'Reform' party. Neither was the later iterations of UKIP 'UKIP'.
They were/are the Farage party. It is about him. It is all about him. Anyone not paying due honour to Farage is out of the inner circle. That's the way it always has been; that's the way it always will be. That's the way he'll govern if we're unfortunate enough to get in that situation..
In that, he's remarkably like MAGA and Trump. It's not about the party. It's not about the country.
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.
If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.
Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
Yes, Lowe would wish to align the party far more closely to MAGA, limiting its appeal.
Brings in tens, perhaps hundreds, of millions of MAGAcoin which buys a lot of appeal over time.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
Is your last paragraph about Nige or Rupes?
Nige
One of my family worked 'near' him for a while. From what I was told it was Nigel's way or the highway!
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
It depends on how this spat plays out.
If Lowe and Farage go all two scorpions in a bottle, tearing lumps out of each other via the courts for the next year or so, it's not going to do much for the party's prospects. And for now, that seems a bit more likely than a friendly chat over a pint to sort out their differences.
I don't think most Reform voters care that much: this isn't really a story that breaks through the Westminster bubble.
However: possible Conservative defectors to Reform are entirely in the Westminster bubble.
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.
If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.
Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
If Bravermann goes over it'll be time to order a really large bag of popcorn.
... The highest UK court should be the Supreme Court and it should be subservient to Parliament. The rule of law is different to the rule of lawyers.
If the Supreme Court is subservient to Parliament, then it's not Supreme
(narrator: Parliament can function as a court if it wishes and IIRC it still has a small jail/holding area)
Neither is subservient to the other, nor should they be. Parliament is not subject to the Supreme Court, being in control of its own affairs, but notes that the SC's rulings on the law are binding on everyone and in legislating takes account of the SC's binding judgments. (Eg in the recent trans case in which the SC had the tough job of telling parliament what it meant when it legislated as parliament had no idea. Parliament is totally free to amend the legislation and notably isn't planning to).
The SC is not subservient to parliament in that parliament can legislate but cannot direct what the SC shall decide about its meaning.
In a mature and grown up democracy (unlike the current USA outfit) both sides try hard not to test the boundaries to the extreme. In the farcical Rwanda legislation the bit deeming Rwanda to be a'safe' country came close to this but its effect never got tested, thankfully.
The current case is an awkward one though. Government lawyers have acknowledged in their court submissions that the supply of F-35 components for potential use in Israel is in breach of the government's own arms export control laws. A point at dispute is whether the supply by UK of components into the F35 pool is sufficiently indirect, and our control over end use for stuff supplied to Israel by the US sufficiently attenuated, for the UK not to be in breach of those laws, given the overwhelming importance of the program for our national defence.
There's also the point that the judgment of matters of national security - which are undoubtedly at stake here - is one for the executive and not for the courts.
There are several things tangled up in the case, and it's really not a simple matter of Parliament is supreme / the courts are supreme, as there's no straightforward legal question to answer.
I suspect the court will back the government in the end, from sheer pragmatism.
I am not up to speed on this case, but let us assume something about it ends up with the Supreme Court.
A loose but useful definition of what questions end up in the Supreme Court is this: The SC deals with precise questions of law (not fact) which are non trivial, of public importance, and where the answer in not clear and certain from the current state of the law.
So, for example, in the recent trans case the question they were answering, despite all the rhetoric and hot air, was magnificently short and simple. It went like this:
"Is a person with a full gender recognition certificate (“GRC”) which recognises that their gender is female, a “woman” for the purposes of the Equality Act 2010 (“EA 2010”)?"
and their answer can be summarised in one word: No.
All stuff engaging how to apply the law to disputed/ambiguous facts is dealt with up to and including Court of Appeal level.
Refining your question to being a proper legal one, proper for the SC to consider, is quite an art.
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.
If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.
Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
If Bravermann goes over it'll be time to order a really large bag of popcorn.
I'm not sure there's anything for Reform to gain from attracting any frontline Tory politician. It's not like we're in an era of political big beasts who might bring over supporters with them. Journalists and media figures are another matter and having the Tory ecosystem become sympathetic to Reform is helping them a lot.
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.
If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.
Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
If Bravermann goes over it'll be time to order a really large bag of popcorn.
I'm not sure there's anything for Reform to gain from attracting any frontline Tory politician. It's not like we're in an era of political big beasts who might bring over supporters with them. Journalists and media figures are another matter and having the Tory ecosystem become sympathetic to Reform is helping them a lot.
That's all very well, but what about my bet on the number of Reform MPs at the time of the next election?
A lot of the toxicity of immigration would be reduced if there was a clear strategy (including numbers!) which acknowledged the benefits and negatives of immigration, and then defined the various means of entry (students, work, family) and of control.
As many have pointed out, our population is ageing vast and inbound migration of some quantity is desirable. The public expectation is that both quantity AND quality will be managed.
The asylum problem, is actually I think I different issue altogether, and at this juncture seemingly more intractable. Starmer should separate them out and appoint an Asylum Tsar or some such.
I suspect the average British voter is utterly baffled by why we should be obligated to accept anyone who lands here from Albania, Sudan, Somalia, Iran, Iraq, Bangladesh or Afghanistan - nations we have very weak links with and have a culture very much at variance with our own.
You get a very different reaction when it comes to Ukraine or Hong Kong, because they both touch different parts of our (freedom-loving) identity.
I don’t think Brits are particularly freedom-loving. I wish they were, and maybe there’s a sub-terranean strand of the British psychology that is, but it’s kind of crushed by the curtain-twitching censoriousness that comes from living overwhelmingly in suburbs that pretend to be villages, and consumption of the Daily Mail.
What I think the Brits REALLY like is fairness, and anger with queue jumpers is part of that...
America loves freedom. They decide their own destiny and safety is provided by self-defence and guns, not government and the police. This is most obvious in its less-densely populated areas
Britain loves safety. They decide other people's destiny and safety is provided by complaining to government and the police, not self-defence and guns. This is most obvious in its most-densely populated areas.
point and order more and more brits are not turning to government and the police for protection
OT, looking for advice from our seasoned travellers for a proposed trip to Sicily - a second day in Siracusa or a third day in Lipari? Already set on Cefalu and Stromboli.
Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Ragusa. This is where Inspector Moltalbano is filmed. It is simply stunning. Not far from Syracuse in the South East of the Island.
Castebueno is not far from Cefalu up in the mountains but be careful of buses back to Cefalu they can finish the service quite early.
Palermo is worth a look, although it is as run down as the Rhondda Valley.
BTW, I don't know the films but Camilleri's Montalbano books, there are loads of them, are wonderful.
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.
If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.
Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
I'm sure you are correct Robert and that probably does explain why there have been no defections yet.
I just think If the polls hold on like this, we will start to get reluctant and very nervous Conservative MPs defecting anyway, on the basis that better 'pot luck' with Nigel today than 'humble pie' and the dole come the GE tommorow.
Entirely off topic (apart from reference to a time Nigel would have been in a quandary over which strong men to suck up to), has anyone watched A French Village/The Line set in WWII France? I’ve seen some positive references on FB but there are 7 series, so before committing it would be good to know if it’s tripe. Or les tripes.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
It depends on how this spat plays out.
If Lowe and Farage go all two scorpions in a bottle, tearing lumps out of each other via the courts for the next year or so, it's not going to do much for the party's prospects. And for now, that seems a bit more likely than a friendly chat over a pint to sort out their differences.
I don't think most Reform voters care that much: this isn't really a story that breaks through the Westminster bubble.
However: possible Conservative defectors to Reform are entirely in the Westminster bubble.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
Is your last paragraph about Nige or Rupes?
Nige
One of my family worked 'near' him for a while. From what I was told it was Nigel's way or the highway!
Which means conflict is inevitable that he is totally unable to manage.
Politics is a dynamic art with different views and perspectives all the time.
Another thing the political class gets wrong, because they can't resist commenting on it, is Israel/Palestine.
The view of the average British voter is that they're as bad as each other, and we should stay out of it. And consequently they're not especially interested.
So why does the government continue to support Israel with arms exports and RAF surveillance flights? Curious that they aren't following public opinion, particularly a Labour government.
If public opinion is that they're not interested, then why shouldn't we have arms exports? Arms exports are good for business and good for our economy, so there should be a very good reason to prevent them.
Seems the Government is following public opinion, just not loudmouth opinion.
The polling is pretty clear, and consistent with what CR said. 58:18 for opposing exports to Israel, with 40% for strongly opposing.
And that was April 2024. It will be even more overwhelming now.
So the percentage opposing arms to Israel is no more than the percentage of Londoners saying immigration is too high?
And I'd be skeptical about the nature of that polling data. I doubt many people are bring up arms to Israel as an issue unprompted.
I just think your understanding of "not getting involved" is quite different to everyone else's.
(They aren't bringing up housing either, despite how important you think that is)
As a general principle we believe in the concepts of trade and supporting our allies.
So engaging in trade and supporting our allies is "not getting involved".
Cutting off trade is getting involved, given our general principles.
It is strange to sell arms to a country led by someone we're obliged to arrest on suspicion of war crimes if he enters our country. A general principle of not doing that would seem more consistent.
Ridiculous over-reach by a "court" we should not be a part of any more with such absurd rulings.
Some good news from the conflict yesterday in that it seems that Israel may have got another leader of Hamas. Its funny how often many here were saying early on that Israel was in the wrong as they weren't going after the leaders are Hamas but don't say anything supportive when they do.
Of course that leader was again as Hamas routinely does using a hospital as a base, meaning Israel were forced to hit a hospital to get to him.
The problem with this conflict is that until Hamas is defeated there is nowhere safe for the Palestinians as Hamas turn everything, even hospitals, into legitimate targets by weaponising them as human shields.
You can make a logical argument for either - or indeed both! - of:
Leaving the ICC
Stopping arms sales to Israel
but being both a member and selling arms to someone for whom the court has an arrest warrant out for war crimes seems inconsistent. Either the law/court is an ass or we should halt weapons sales until Israel has a new leader. Or both.
It's more complicated than that.
The arms in question (at least those of any significance) are parts for the F35, for which the UK is the second largest supplier after the US. These go into a worldwide pool from which Israel is supplied (by the US).
Contractually, there's no way in which we can place restrictions on the use of those parts. We either continue to supply them, or leave the program.
Which would be somewhat awkward...
Fair enough. I didn't know the details of this - which, being a proper PBer - I took as no bar to commenting on the issue
It's another downside of tying ourselves so closely to the US for the procurement of defence systems.
The F35 is a remarkable aircraft - but our versions are somewhat crippled (they still can't carry our most potent air to air and air to ground missiles, for example), and use of them in any given theatre is de facto subject to US approval.
I'm very uncomfortable supplying Israel with kit that's very probably being used to target civilians (however much that decision is out of our hands). But we are in no position to do anything about it - until we make other defence arrangements.
From previous posts by more informed PBers I understood that the F35 has specific mission programming which is undertaken in various places in the US. Does that mean that the US is programming Israeli F35 missions, and how does that sit with any potential legal action?
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.
If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.
Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
I'm sure you are correct Robert and that probably does explain why there have been no defections yet.
I just think If the polls hold on like this, we will start to get reluctant and very nervous Conservative MPs defecting anyway, on the basis that better 'pot luck' with Nigel today than 'humble pie' and the dole come the GE tommorow.
They have quite a long time to 'wait and see'. Within a couple of years another issue may emerge from the mist. Reform is popular because it is neither Labour nor Tory, and both are seen as tainted - with reason - by voters wanting a populist approach.
The other party which is also not Tory or Labour and which has some appeal to a wide audience of people who would rather die than vote Reform is the LDs. The reaction to Starmer's 'Squalid Rivers of Stranger Islands' speech, if he sticks to that agenda, will do the LDs no harm if they play a sytraight bat, while the Tories are simply in self destruct mode.
If this carries on - and it's hard to see the talent to stop it - the most obvious battle by 2029 may be Reform v LDs, with Tory MPs defecting both ways.
OT, looking for advice from our seasoned travellers for a proposed trip to Sicily - a second day in Siracusa or a third day in Lipari? Already set on Cefalu and Stromboli.
Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Ragusa. This is where Inspector Moltalbano is filmed. It is simply stunning. Not far from Syracuse in the South East of the Island.
Castebueno is not far from Cefalu up in the mountains but be careful of buses back to Cefalu they can finish the service quite early.
Palermo is worth a look, although it is as run down as the Rhondda Valley.
BTW, I don't know the films but Camilleri's Montalbano books, there are loads of them, are wonderful.
The TV films are great. I think they are still on iPlayer. Easy to follow with the subtitles. The locations are outstanding, particularly Ragusa.
Another thing the political class gets wrong, because they can't resist commenting on it, is Israel/Palestine.
The view of the average British voter is that they're as bad as each other, and we should stay out of it. And consequently they're not especially interested.
So why does the government continue to support Israel with arms exports and RAF surveillance flights? Curious that they aren't following public opinion, particularly a Labour government.
If public opinion is that they're not interested, then why shouldn't we have arms exports? Arms exports are good for business and good for our economy, so there should be a very good reason to prevent them.
Seems the Government is following public opinion, just not loudmouth opinion.
The polling is pretty clear, and consistent with what CR said. 58:18 for opposing exports to Israel, with 40% for strongly opposing.
And that was April 2024. It will be even more overwhelming now.
So the percentage opposing arms to Israel is no more than the percentage of Londoners saying immigration is too high?
And I'd be skeptical about the nature of that polling data. I doubt many people are bring up arms to Israel as an issue unprompted.
I just think your understanding of "not getting involved" is quite different to everyone else's.
(They aren't bringing up housing either, despite how important you think that is)
As a general principle we believe in the concepts of trade and supporting our allies.
So engaging in trade and supporting our allies is "not getting involved".
Cutting off trade is getting involved, given our general principles.
It is strange to sell arms to a country led by someone we're obliged to arrest on suspicion of war crimes if he enters our country. A general principle of not doing that would seem more consistent.
Ridiculous over-reach by a "court" we should not be a part of any more with such absurd rulings.
Some good news from the conflict yesterday in that it seems that Israel may have got another leader of Hamas. Its funny how often many here were saying early on that Israel was in the wrong as they weren't going after the leaders are Hamas but don't say anything supportive when they do.
Of course that leader was again as Hamas routinely does using a hospital as a base, meaning Israel were forced to hit a hospital to get to him.
The problem with this conflict is that until Hamas is defeated there is nowhere safe for the Palestinians as Hamas turn everything, even hospitals, into legitimate targets by weaponising them as human shields.
You can make a logical argument for either - or indeed both! - of:
Leaving the ICC
Stopping arms sales to Israel
but being both a member and selling arms to someone for whom the court has an arrest warrant out for war crimes seems inconsistent. Either the law/court is an ass or we should halt weapons sales until Israel has a new leader. Or both.
It's more complicated than that.
The arms in question (at least those of any significance) are parts for the F35, for which the UK is the second largest supplier after the US. These go into a worldwide pool from which Israel is supplied (by the US).
Contractually, there's no way in which we can place restrictions on the use of those parts. We either continue to supply them, or leave the program.
Which would be somewhat awkward...
Fair enough. I didn't know the details of this - which, being a proper PBer - I took as no bar to commenting on the issue
It's another downside of tying ourselves so closely to the US for the procurement of defence systems.
The F35 is a remarkable aircraft - but our versions are somewhat crippled (they still can't carry our most potent air to air and air to ground missiles, for example), and use of them in any given theatre is de facto subject to US approval.
I'm very uncomfortable supplying Israel with kit that's very probably being used to target civilians (however much that decision is out of our hands). But we are in no position to do anything about it - until we make other defence arrangements.
From previous posts by more informed PBers I understood that the F35 has specific mission programming which is undertaken in various places in the US. Does that mean that the US is programming Israeli F35 missions, and how does that sit with any potential legal action?
IIRC Israel, unlike us, get to do their own mission programming.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
It depends on how this spat plays out.
If Lowe and Farage go all two scorpions in a bottle, tearing lumps out of each other via the courts for the next year or so, it's not going to do much for the party's prospects. And for now, that seems a bit more likely than a friendly chat over a pint to sort out their differences.
I don't think most Reform voters care that much: this isn't really a story that breaks through the Westminster bubble.
However: possible Conservative defectors to Reform are entirely in the Westminster bubble.
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.
If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.
Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
I'm sure you are correct Robert and that probably does explain why there have been no defections yet.
I just think If the polls hold on like this, we will start to get reluctant and very nervous Conservative MPs defecting anyway, on the basis that better 'pot luck' with Nigel today than 'humble pie' and the dole come the GE tommorow.
There are going to be some constituencies where staying Conservative essentially guarantees a loss, so you are probably right.
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.
If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.
Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
If Bravermann goes over it'll be time to order a really large bag of popcorn.
I'm not sure there's anything for Reform to gain from attracting any frontline Tory politician. It's not like we're in an era of political big beasts who might bring over supporters with them. Journalists and media figures are another matter and having the Tory ecosystem become sympathetic to Reform is helping them a lot.
Well at some point they may need to find some sort of credibility as to being able to govern. So defectors with experience might be handy. (Even Suella level experience)
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
Is your last paragraph about Nige or Rupes?
Nige
One of my family worked 'near' him for a while. From what I was told it was Nigel's way or the highway!
Which means conflict is inevitable that he is totally unable to manage.
Politics is a dynamic art with different views and perspectives all the time.
So far no-one has joined Reform of whom the thoughtful normal person would say 'That's interesting' with the possible single exception of Tim Montgomerie - and I don't suppose anyone outside PB and anoraks (Venn diagram to follow) have heard of him.
It's quite possiblt that the reasons for this are twofold and linked: Farage is the leader so no-one self respecting will go near it; and without Farage Reform are a house of cards.
This would change if fifteen solid Tories defected together. They would both be a blunt instrument against Farage's Napolean tendency, and also an blood bank of replacements for him, and a few front benchers would could mostly count and read.
Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.
Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.
If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.
Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
I'm sure you are correct Robert and that probably does explain why there have been no defections yet.
I just think If the polls hold on like this, we will start to get reluctant and very nervous Conservative MPs defecting anyway, on the basis that better 'pot luck' with Nigel today than 'humble pie' and the dole come the GE tommorow.
They have quite a long time to 'wait and see'. Within a couple of years another issue may emerge from the mist. Reform is popular because it is neither Labour nor Tory, and both are seen as tainted - with reason - by voters wanting a populist approach.
The other party which is also not Tory or Labour and which has some appeal to a wide audience of people who would rather die than vote Reform is the LDs. The reaction to Starmer's 'Squalid Rivers of Stranger Islands' speech, if he sticks to that agenda, will do the LDs no harm if they play a sytraight bat, while the Tories are simply in self destruct mode.
If this carries on - and it's hard to see the talent to stop it - the most obvious battle by 2029 may be Reform v LDs, with Tory MPs defecting both ways.
I'm just now realising that there are 4 parties competing for the accolade of Most Repugnant To Me.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
Is your last paragraph about Nige or Rupes?
Nige
One of my family worked 'near' him for a while. From what I was told it was Nigel's way or the highway!
Which is probably quite closely connected to why Nigel is currently leading the most popular political party in the country.
His only route to power requires a degree of ruthless "get with the program or get out", especially when dealing with people who have hobby horses not very closely aigned to what the public wants.
Another thing the political class gets wrong, because they can't resist commenting on it, is Israel/Palestine.
The view of the average British voter is that they're as bad as each other, and we should stay out of it. And consequently they're not especially interested.
So why does the government continue to support Israel with arms exports and RAF surveillance flights? Curious that they aren't following public opinion, particularly a Labour government.
If public opinion is that they're not interested, then why shouldn't we have arms exports? Arms exports are good for business and good for our economy, so there should be a very good reason to prevent them.
Seems the Government is following public opinion, just not loudmouth opinion.
The polling is pretty clear, and consistent with what CR said. 58:18 for opposing exports to Israel, with 40% for strongly opposing.
And that was April 2024. It will be even more overwhelming now.
So the percentage opposing arms to Israel is no more than the percentage of Londoners saying immigration is too high?
And I'd be skeptical about the nature of that polling data. I doubt many people are bring up arms to Israel as an issue unprompted.
I just think your understanding of "not getting involved" is quite different to everyone else's.
(They aren't bringing up housing either, despite how important you think that is)
As a general principle we believe in the concepts of trade and supporting our allies.
So engaging in trade and supporting our allies is "not getting involved".
Cutting off trade is getting involved, given our general principles.
It is strange to sell arms to a country led by someone we're obliged to arrest on suspicion of war crimes if he enters our country. A general principle of not doing that would seem more consistent.
Ridiculous over-reach by a "court" we should not be a part of any more with such absurd rulings.
Some good news from the conflict yesterday in that it seems that Israel may have got another leader of Hamas. Its funny how often many here were saying early on that Israel was in the wrong as they weren't going after the leaders are Hamas but don't say anything supportive when they do.
Of course that leader was again as Hamas routinely does using a hospital as a base, meaning Israel were forced to hit a hospital to get to him.
The problem with this conflict is that until Hamas is defeated there is nowhere safe for the Palestinians as Hamas turn everything, even hospitals, into legitimate targets by weaponising them as human shields.
You can make a logical argument for either - or indeed both! - of:
Leaving the ICC
Stopping arms sales to Israel
but being both a member and selling arms to someone for whom the court has an arrest warrant out for war crimes seems inconsistent. Either the law/court is an ass or we should halt weapons sales until Israel has a new leader. Or both.
It's more complicated than that.
The arms in question (at least those of any significance) are parts for the F35, for which the UK is the second largest supplier after the US. These go into a worldwide pool from which Israel is supplied (by the US).
Contractually, there's no way in which we can place restrictions on the use of those parts. We either continue to supply them, or leave the program.
Which would be somewhat awkward...
Fair enough. I didn't know the details of this - which, being a proper PBer - I took as no bar to commenting on the issue
It's another downside of tying ourselves so closely to the US for the procurement of defence systems.
The F35 is a remarkable aircraft - but our versions are somewhat crippled (they still can't carry our most potent air to air and air to ground missiles, for example), and use of them in any given theatre is de facto subject to US approval.
I'm very uncomfortable supplying Israel with kit that's very probably being used to target civilians (however much that decision is out of our hands). But we are in no position to do anything about it - until we make other defence arrangements.
From previous posts by more informed PBers I understood that the F35 has specific mission programming which is undertaken in various places in the US. Does that mean that the US is programming Israeli F35 missions, and how does that sit with any potential legal action?
No. The F35 variant that Israel uses is designated the F35I. Unlike other countries including UK, the Israelis insisted that the mission programming for the F35I be written and conducted by Israelis in Israel.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
Is your last paragraph about Nige or Rupes?
Nige
One of my family worked 'near' him for a while. From what I was told it was Nigel's way or the highway!
Which means conflict is inevitable that he is totally unable to manage.
Politics is a dynamic art with different views and perspectives all the time.
So far no-one has joined Reform of whom the thoughtful normal person would say 'That's interesting' with the possible single exception of Tim Montgomerie - and I don't suppose anyone outside PB and anoraks (Venn diagram to follow) have heard of him.
It's quite possiblt that the reasons for this are twofold and linked: Farage is the leader so no-one self respecting will go near it; and without Farage Reform are a house of cards.
This would change if fifteen solid Tories defected together. They would both be a blunt instrument against Farage's Napolean tendency, and also an blood bank of replacements for him, and a few front benchers would could mostly count and read.
The Farage comparison with Napoleon is an interesting one. Both are/were talented narcissists who saw their vision as being the only one, without any hint of argument or compromise with those supposedly on their own side. If the comparison continues, then Farage will bring disaster to Europe, with millions of dead, with no positive result aside from his own self-aggrandisement.
And idiots two centuries later will forget those dead, and laud him.
Putin's a little further down the same path. And it's odd (not really) how Russia-friendly Farage has been.
Bring them back in so that he can return them again?
Labour strategists must really believe the way to get the public to warm to Sir Keir is to present him as a kind of Tough guy Ultimate Cop who is solely responsible for law & order in the country. He presented himself as the only arbiter of justice when DPP, other than the cases that ‘never crossed his desk’. These sound like they’ve been written by someone who has just done some steroids at the gym
Bring them back in so that he can return them again?
Labour strategists must really believe the way to get the public to warm to Sir Keir is to present him as a kind of Tough guy Ultimate Cop who is solely responsible for law & order in the country. He presented himself as the only arbiter of justice when DPP, other than the cases that ‘never crossed his desk’. These sound like they’ve been written by someone who has just done some steroids at the gym
Starmer’s like Batman.
Both wore capes*, both fought for justice.
*DavidL will tell you it is a gown but it is a cape.
... The highest UK court should be the Supreme Court and it should be subservient to Parliament. The rule of law is different to the rule of lawyers.
If the Supreme Court is subservient to Parliament, then it's not Supreme
(narrator: Parliament can function as a court if it wishes and IIRC it still has a small jail/holding area)
Time to extend the powers of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council to the United Kingdom.
Isn't the Supreme Court more or less the JCPC just not under that name?
Surely, in that case, it would be better to rename it to something less insufferably naff? Like (say) the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council?
Judicial Committee of the House of Lords has a nice ring to it. In its absence we should, IMO, be thankful that we have a Supreme Court, though naffly named, which is of such high quality.
SFAICS no other country is obliged to use them, sitting as the JCPC, as their highest court, but quite a few do.
I prefer the period when we had Law Lords, a bit like Time Lords.
A more leisurely age, with judgments sounding more like a sermon composed by PG Wodehouse, like this from Viscount Sankey in the great Woolmington v DPP, (1935) when a man's life following conviction for murder hung by a legal golden thread, and he survived:
It is true as stated by the Court of Appeal that there is apparent authority for the law as laid down by the learned judge. But your Lordships' House has had the advantage of a prolonged and exhaustive inquiry dealing with the matter in debate from the earliest times, an advantage which was not shared by either of the Courts below. Indeed your Lordships were referred to legal propositions dating as far back as the reign of King Canute (994–1035). But I do not think it is necessary for the purpose of this opinion to go as far back as that.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
It depends on how this spat plays out.
If Lowe and Farage go all two scorpions in a bottle, tearing lumps out of each other via the courts for the next year or so, it's not going to do much for the party's prospects. And for now, that seems a bit more likely than a friendly chat over a pint to sort out their differences.
I don't think most Reform voters care that much: this isn't really a story that breaks through the Westminster bubble...
It would if it led the tabloid headlines every month, for half a year. Which is not impossible. See, for example, the Wagatha nonsense.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
Is your last paragraph about Nige or Rupes?
Nige
One of my family worked 'near' him for a while. From what I was told it was Nigel's way or the highway!
Which means conflict is inevitable that he is totally unable to manage.
Politics is a dynamic art with different views and perspectives all the time.
So far no-one has joined Reform of whom the thoughtful normal person would say 'That's interesting' with the possible single exception of Tim Montgomerie - and I don't suppose anyone outside PB and anoraks (Venn diagram to follow) have heard of him.
It's quite possiblt that the reasons for this are twofold and linked: Farage is the leader so no-one self respecting will go near it; and without Farage Reform are a house of cards.
This would change if fifteen solid Tories defected together. They would both be a blunt instrument against Farage's Napolean tendency, and also an blood bank of replacements for him, and a few front benchers would could mostly count and read.
I don't find Tim Montgomerie joining RefUK interesting at all. His whole career has been an attempt to get attention focused on Tim Montgomerie, and everything he does can be understood through that, rather than bothering looking for some form of consistent broader set of principles.
Bring them back in so that he can return them again?
Labour strategists must really believe the way to get the public to warm to Sir Keir is to present him as a kind of Tough guy Ultimate Cop who is solely responsible for law & order in the country. He presented himself as the only arbiter of justice when DPP, other than the cases that ‘never crossed his desk’. These sound like they’ve been written by someone who has just done some steroids at the gym
Starmer’s like Batman.
Both wore capes*, both fought for justice.
*DavidL will tell you it is a gown but it is a cape.
It does seem like they’re trying to make him into some kind of superhero, the way his social media is written.
Bring them back in so that he can return them again?
Labour strategists must really believe the way to get the public to warm to Sir Keir is to present him as a kind of Tough guy Ultimate Cop who is solely responsible for law & order in the country. He presented himself as the only arbiter of justice when DPP, other than the cases that ‘never crossed his desk’. These sound like they’ve been written by someone who has just done some steroids at the gym
Starmer’s like Batman.
Both wore capes*, both fought for justice.
*DavidL will tell you it is a gown but it is a cape.
As Edna explained in the Incredibles: “ no capes”.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
Is your last paragraph about Nige or Rupes?
Nige
One of my family worked 'near' him for a while. From what I was told it was Nigel's way or the highway!
Which is probably quite closely connected to why Nigel is currently leading the most popular political party in the country.
His only route to power requires a degree of ruthless "get with the program or get out", especially when dealing with people who have hobby horses not very closely aigned to what the public wants.
People constantly criticise him/his parties for lacking discipline/attracting loons, and he’s obviously making a big effort to make Reform more sensible and less associated with Tommy Robinson sympathisers (whilst keeping their votes)
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
Is your last paragraph about Nige or Rupes?
Nige
One of my family worked 'near' him for a while. From what I was told it was Nigel's way or the highway!
Which means conflict is inevitable that he is totally unable to manage.
Politics is a dynamic art with different views and perspectives all the time.
So far no-one has joined Reform of whom the thoughtful normal person would say 'That's interesting' with the possible single exception of Tim Montgomerie - and I don't suppose anyone outside PB and anoraks (Venn diagram to follow) have heard of him.
It's quite possiblt that the reasons for this are twofold and linked: Farage is the leader so no-one self respecting will go near it; and without Farage Reform are a house of cards.
This would change if fifteen solid Tories defected together. They would both be a blunt instrument against Farage's Napolean tendency, and also an blood bank of replacements for him, and a few front benchers would could mostly count and read.
The Farage comparison with Napoleon is an interesting one. Both are/were talented narcissists who saw their vision as being the only one, without any hint of argument or compromise with those supposedly on their own side. If the comparison continues, then Farage will bring disaster to Europe, with millions of dead, with no positive result aside from his own self-aggrandisement.
And idiots two centuries later will forget those dead, and laud him.
Putin's a little further down the same path. And it's odd (not really) how Russia-friendly Farage has been.
I think the comparison has limits. Hegel and Beethoven were deceived by Napoleon (Hegel to the point of insane ramblings, Beethoven recovered and recanted). I don't think Farage would trouble either for long. Neither, thankfully, is he Nietzsche's Ubermensch, a position occupied by Trump for now. Brits have a sense of humour and still watch Dad's Army for its moral clarity, quite rightly.
Bring them back in so that he can return them again?
Labour strategists must really believe the way to get the public to warm to Sir Keir is to present him as a kind of Tough guy Ultimate Cop who is solely responsible for law & order in the country. He presented himself as the only arbiter of justice when DPP, other than the cases that ‘never crossed his desk’. These sound like they’ve been written by someone who has just done some steroids at the gym
Starmer’s like Batman.
Both wore capes*, both fought for justice.
*DavidL will tell you it is a gown but it is a cape.
As Edna explained in the Incredibles: “ no capes”.
This is why I decided to not become a barrister, the uniform is boring.
Did any PBers chuckle like Reeves at Starmer's 'witty' "rubbish" response at PMQs?
I did.
I called 999 for Liz Savile Roberts because she got burned.
Dave would wince at your sense of 'humour'
I'd say it was neither particularly funny nor particularly terrible. Oppo MP asks crap-insult-disguised-as-question; PM replies with lame-but-functional comeback which wasn't sparkling but was no ruder than the question which prompted it. It's not an exchange either of them came out of with any real credit. It doesn't warrant any particular bewailing of unwoke behaviour, just a weary low-level lament that this is what our politics looks like.
Bring them back in so that he can return them again?
Labour strategists must really believe the way to get the public to warm to Sir Keir is to present him as a kind of Tough guy Ultimate Cop who is solely responsible for law & order in the country. He presented himself as the only arbiter of justice when DPP, other than the cases that ‘never crossed his desk’. These sound like they’ve been written by someone who has just done some steroids at the gym
Starmer’s like Batman.
Both wore capes*, both fought for justice.
*DavidL will tell you it is a gown but it is a cape.
As Edna explained in the Incredibles: “ no capes”.
This is why I decided to not become a barrister, the uniform is boring.
Tomorrow morning, on what is forecast to be one of the hottest days of the year so far, I will be in court wearing striped woollen trousers, a shirt with a detachable collar and studs, a woollen waistcoat, tails, a court gown topped off with a horsehair wig. It’s a lot of things , including completely daft , but it isn’t boring.
Did any PBers chuckle like Reeves at Starmer's 'witty' "rubbish" response at PMQs?
I did.
I called 999 for Liz Savile Roberts because she got burned.
Dave would wince at your sense of 'humour'
I'd say it was neither particularly funny nor particularly terrible. Oppo MP asks crap-insult-disguised-as-question; PM replies with lame-but-functional comeback which wasn't sparkling but was no ruder than the question which prompted it. It's not an exchange either of them came out of with any real credit. It doesn't warrant any particular bewailing of unwoke behaviour, just a weary low-level lament that this is what our politics looks like.
It wasn't a proper question, and didn't deserve a proper answer
But wouldn't something about Welsh independence have been smarter?
He sounded like a stupid schoolboy; hardly prime ministerial..
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Tellingly, the one who Farage hasn't fallen out with is Aaron Banks - which probably says something about how Farage interacts with him, as against other people.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
Is your last paragraph about Nige or Rupes?
Nige
One of my family worked 'near' him for a while. From what I was told it was Nigel's way or the highway!
Which is probably quite closely connected to why Nigel is currently leading the most popular political party in the country.
His only route to power requires a degree of ruthless "get with the program or get out", especially when dealing with people who have hobby horses not very closely aigned to what the public wants.
'What the public wants' is a question linked to the constraints of reality. Otherwise it's a wishlist, and even I can produce one of those. Like other parties Farage has not yet articulated a properly costed vision of 'what the public wants' in parallel with their wants and needs WRT spend, tax, deficit, debt, borrowing, stable public finances, inflation, interest rates, and public services. Since there is no other matter which goes so to heart of the job he wants, it's a bit of a gap.
I don't know how mobile you are, but Sicily has two world class outstanding historic monuments. Both utterly breathtaking, and both worth a day's drive to see
The first is well known: Agrigento, the Valley of the Temples
Probably the greatest collection of Greek temples anywhere on earth
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
Which means at some point it got angry and disrespectful, and then deeply personal (probably). He's (probably) utterly untrustworthy and impossible to work with, and never has anyone's back or interests at heart but his own. Maybe he knocks down anyone who vaguely approaches his profile too.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
Is your last paragraph about Nige or Rupes?
Nige
One of my family worked 'near' him for a while. From what I was told it was Nigel's way or the highway!
Which means conflict is inevitable that he is totally unable to manage.
Politics is a dynamic art with different views and perspectives all the time.
So far no-one has joined Reform of whom the thoughtful normal person would say 'That's interesting' with the possible single exception of Tim Montgomerie - and I don't suppose anyone outside PB and anoraks (Venn diagram to follow) have heard of him.
It's quite possiblt that the reasons for this are twofold and linked: Farage is the leader so no-one self respecting will go near it; and without Farage Reform are a house of cards.
This would change if fifteen solid Tories defected together. They would both be a blunt instrument against Farage's Napolean tendency, and also an blood bank of replacements for him, and a few front benchers would could mostly count and read.
Succession is the key to Reform. Suella Braverman and Liz Truss might both fancy their chances should the Downing Street bus driver get Farage (60 but likes the fags and booze) but they can't both get the job and there is no point in defecting early to play Farage's lapdog, best wait and see, especially as there might be a vacancy closer to home first.
BREAKING: A leaked recording reveals top Tory Chris Philp admitted the UK couldn’t return asylum seekers to Europe post-Brexit, despite promises made at the time.
Comments
A reminder to whom it may concern that OGH used his own memes.
The arms in question (at least those of any significance) are parts for the F35, for which the UK is the second largest supplier after the US.
These go into a worldwide pool from which Israel is supplied (by the US).
Contractually, there's no way in which we can place restrictions on the use of those parts. We either continue to supply them, or leave the program.
Which would be somewhat awkward...
Unless Lowe forms a new nationalist party bankrolled by Musk I doubt Farage will be too damaged though
At the moment, the party is on the up.
https://news.sky.com/story/foreign-states-face-15-newspaper-ownership-limit-amid-telegraph-row-13367680
"Foreign state investors would be allowed to hold stakes of up to 15% in British national newspapers, ministers are set to announce amid a two-year battle to resolve an impasse over The Daily Telegraph's ownership.
Sky News has learnt that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport could announce as soon as Thursday that the new limit is to be imposed following a consultation lasting several months."
(narrator: Parliament can function as a court if it wishes and IIRC it still has a small jail/holding area)
If you left it to parliament, it's almost certain they would ban exports given prevailing public opinion.
(narrator: many years ago Viewcode once danced drunkenly to "She's Lost Control" in a Middlesbrough car park. "...AN SHEE SCREMED AAHHT KINKING ON UR SIDE AND SED SHEEZ LOST CONTRUL AGIN...". Oh happy days...)
Surely, in that case, it would be better to rename it to something less insufferably naff? Like (say) the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council?
The F35 is a remarkable aircraft - but our versions are somewhat crippled (they still can't carry our most potent air to air and air to ground missiles, for example), and use of them in any given theatre is de facto subject to US approval.
I'm very uncomfortable supplying Israel with kit that's very probably being used to target civilians (however much that decision is out of our hands). But we are in no position to do anything about it - until we make other defence arrangements.
But, that will be unlikely to be politically critical prior to the election.
If I were a Reform MP, the thing I would be most concerned about would not be the reputational damage of legal actions against Reform, it would be the fact that Farage has fallen out with almost everyone he's ever worked with.
He fell out with Alan Sked, and Diane James, and Douglas Carswell, and Ben Habib, and now Rupert Lowe. And those are just the ones I can think of on the top of my head.
These fallings out aren't minor either: usually people end up leaving the party. (And sometimes fleeing to Alabama.)
So, I don't expect this to negatively impact Farage's poll ratings... but it might make me think twice as an MP if I wanted to jump ship.
If Parliament wants to give ministers powers to interpret particular laws, it can do so - and does so quite regularly.
The SC is not subservient to parliament in that parliament can legislate but cannot direct what the SC shall decide about its meaning.
In a mature and grown up democracy (unlike the current USA outfit) both sides try hard not to test the boundaries to the extreme. In the farcical Rwanda legislation the bit deeming Rwanda to be a'safe' country came close to this but its effect never got tested, thankfully.
Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
If Lowe and Farage go all two scorpions in a bottle, tearing lumps out of each other via the courts for the next year or so, it's not going to do much for the party's prospects. And for now, that seems a bit more likely than a friendly chat over a pint to sort out their differences.
FWIW, I saw him speak when he was a 'regular' UKIP MEP back in 2001. He was absolutely the blokey guy with a pint at the bar - we had one - but he was very quick to anger when questioned, as one of the audience did. Very politely.
SFAICS no other country is obliged to use them, sitting as the JCPC, as their highest court, but quite a few do.
well done, was listening to Joy Division on the way in to work this morning
Government lawyers have acknowledged in their court submissions that the supply of F-35 components for potential use in Israel is in breach of the government's own arms export control laws.
A point at dispute is whether the supply by UK of components into the F35 pool is sufficiently indirect, and our control over end use for stuff supplied to Israel by the US sufficiently attenuated, for the UK not to be in breach of those laws, given the overwhelming importance of the program for our national defence.
There's also the point that the judgment of matters of national security - which are undoubtedly at stake here - is one for the executive and not for the courts.
There are several things tangled up in the case, and it's really not a simple matter of Parliament is supreme / the courts are supreme, as there's no straightforward legal question to answer.
I suspect the court will back the government in the end, from sheer pragmatism.
Castebueno is not far from Cefalu up in the mountains but be careful of buses back to Cefalu they can finish the service quite early.
Palermo is worth a look, although it is as run down as the Rhondda Valley.
It is not the 'Reform' party.
Neither was the later iterations of UKIP 'UKIP'.
They were/are the Farage party. It is about him. It is all about him. Anyone not paying due honour to Farage is out of the inner circle. That's the way it always has been; that's the way it always will be. That's the way he'll govern if we're unfortunate enough to get in that situation..
In that, he's remarkably like MAGA and Trump. It's not about the party. It's not about the country.
It's about him.
If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.
Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
However: possible Conservative defectors to Reform are entirely in the Westminster bubble.
A loose but useful definition of what questions end up in the Supreme Court is this: The SC deals with precise questions of law (not fact) which are non trivial, of public importance, and where the answer in not clear and certain from the current state of the law.
So, for example, in the recent trans case the question they were answering, despite all the rhetoric and hot air, was magnificently short and simple. It went like this:
"Is a person with a full gender recognition certificate (“GRC”) which recognises that their gender is female, a
“woman” for the purposes of the Equality Act 2010 (“EA 2010”)?"
and their answer can be summarised in one word: No.
All stuff engaging how to apply the law to disputed/ambiguous facts is dealt with up to and including Court of Appeal level.
Refining your question to being a proper legal one, proper for the SC to consider, is quite an art.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65788756
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/10/police-britain-private-security-firms-powers
https://www.ward-security.co.uk/news/private-policing/
I just think If the polls hold on like this, we will start to get reluctant and very nervous Conservative MPs defecting anyway, on the basis that better 'pot luck' with Nigel today than 'humble pie' and the dole come the GE tommorow.
Politics is a dynamic art with different views and perspectives all the time.
Does that mean that the US is programming Israeli F35 missions, and how does that sit with any potential legal action?
The other party which is also not Tory or Labour and which has some appeal to a wide audience of people who would rather die than vote Reform is the LDs. The reaction to Starmer's 'Squalid Rivers of Stranger Islands' speech, if he sticks to that agenda, will do the LDs no harm if they play a sytraight bat, while the Tories are simply in self destruct mode.
If this carries on - and it's hard to see the talent to stop it - the most obvious battle by 2029 may be Reform v LDs, with Tory MPs defecting both ways.
I’ve already returned over 24,000 people with no right to be here.
And I won’t stop there.
https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1922663370018156919?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
It's quite possiblt that the reasons for this are twofold and linked: Farage is the leader so no-one self respecting will go near it; and without Farage Reform are a house of cards.
This would change if fifteen solid Tories defected together. They would both be a blunt instrument against Farage's Napolean tendency, and also an blood bank of replacements for him, and a few front benchers would could mostly count and read.
Good evening, everyone.
His only route to power requires a degree of ruthless "get with the program or get out", especially when dealing with people who have hobby horses not very closely aigned to what the public wants.
And idiots two centuries later will forget those dead, and laud him.
Putin's a little further down the same path. And it's odd (not really) how Russia-friendly Farage has been.
Both wore capes*, both fought for justice.
*DavidL will tell you it is a gown but it is a cape.
I called 999 for Liz Savile Roberts because she got burned.
It is true as stated by the Court of Appeal that there is apparent authority for the law as laid down by the learned judge. But your Lordships' House has had the advantage of a prolonged and exhaustive inquiry dealing with the matter in debate from the earliest times, an advantage which was not shared by either of the Courts below. Indeed your Lordships were referred to legal propositions dating as far back as the reign of King Canute (994–1035). But I do not think it is necessary for the purpose of this opinion to go as far back as that.
See, for example, the Wagatha nonsense.
I’ve already returned over 24,000 people with no right to be here.
And I won’t stop there.
But wouldn't something about Welsh independence have been smarter?
He sounded like a stupid schoolboy; hardly prime ministerial..
I don't know how mobile you are, but Sicily has two world class outstanding historic monuments. Both utterly breathtaking, and both worth a day's drive to see
The first is well known: Agrigento, the Valley of the Temples
Probably the greatest collection of Greek temples anywhere on earth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valle_dei_Templi
Try and linger for twilight. It is stupendously lovely, and atmospheric, then they light it all up. Wow
The second is rather obscure, but shouldn't be. Villa Romana del Casale right in the middle of the island
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale
Perhaps the greatest surviving Roman villa? It will blow your mind
Enjoy!
BREAKING: A leaked recording reveals top Tory Chris Philp admitted the UK couldn’t return asylum seekers to Europe post-Brexit, despite promises made at the time.
@SamCoatesSky
has all the details.
https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1922685876569595995
Also, that tweet gives the vague impression, "I have no right to do this, no right to be sitting here as prime minister"