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Reform, no joy just division. Will Lowe tear us apart? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 177
    fitalass said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.

    Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.

    If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.

    Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
    I'm sure you are correct Robert and that probably does explain why there have been no defections yet.

    I just think If the polls hold on like this, we will start to get reluctant and very nervous Conservative MPs defecting anyway, on the basis that better 'pot luck' with Nigel today than 'humble pie' and the dole come the GE tommorow.
    Surely that is also going to be the case for some reluctant and very nervous Labour MPs, especially in those red wall seats they regained from the Conservatives at the 2024 GE?
    You might be right. If anyone does, my money would be on someone like Mike Tapp MP (Dover). He has the Reform vibe imho
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,255
    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,167
    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    The main thing is they planned poorly if a 800 euro taxi was part of the holiday....if he cant plan a holiday without excessive expense incurred why should we trust him to plan for the country
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,804
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    The number is also ten years old - it was published in 2018, but used 2015 data.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,804
    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    The ski holiday was almost certainly booked before Mr Lammy discovered he would be in Bologna. Otherwise Cortina or Cervinia would make much more sense.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,148
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    Figure 1 is from the OBR. You can look at it in an OBR document, but it's more prettily presented here. I'm not referring to the rest of the text.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,739
    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    I think, regardless of the ins and outs of what happened and who was in the right or wrong, questions should be asked about how our Foreign Secretary was under any circumstances whatsoever able to get into a taxi driven by somebody who stole his luggage.

    That just shouldn't have happened.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,921
    Shocked.

    TV personality makes police complaint about “traumatic” investigation into officer

    In 2023, Jackie Adedeji raised a historic complaint of sexual misconduct by a serving police officer. The detective who investigated her complaint is now under investigation for making inappropriate comments and then it emerged a third investigating officer had previously stood trial for rape.


    https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-tv-personality-makes-police-complaint-about-traumatic-investigation-into-officer
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,167
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    The number is also ten years old - it was published in 2018, but used 2015 data.
    Even in 2015 the tax free allowance was 10600 so point a stands. Lets be generous as half the nhs cost thats a 1000

    In 2015 the average rent for a room in slough would have been still 700 or so or 8400 a year

    quote "AI Overview
    Learn more
    In Slough in 2015, the average rent for a room would have been around £700-£800 per month, depending on factors like location, size, and amenities. SpareRoom and other online platforms like Rentaroof provided data for rooms in Slough
    "

    So by the time they paid their council tax, bills etc they wouldnt have money for food or if we assume none of those bills as they are included....they food and travel comes to no more that 31£.Sorry if I don't believe they weren't getting help from the state
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,255
    edited 7:53PM
    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    The ski holiday was almost certainly booked before Mr Lammy discovered he would be in Bologna. Otherwise Cortina or Cervinia would make much more sense.
    Yes I assume so.

    But I love these travel logistics challenges. It’s like race across the world (on in 15 minutes).

    Always more fun attempting public transport in these situations. London to Amsterdam is an example: boring flight to Schiphol, or the train to Brussels and change, or for the really adventurous get the Harwich ferry?

    EDIT: or by the time I next need to go to Amsterdam in June I might have a new EV, so perhaps I should make it a road trip via Calais.

    My son is somehow getting to our house outside Cluny next month with his friends on public transport that I didn’t even realise existed. There’s a bus you have to ring up to book.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,500
    edited 7:50PM
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    Personal income tax and NI is not the only way that people contribute to the economy and to tax revenues. GDP per worker is £90k per annum, while the average salary is only £37k.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,921
    The morning thread also has a subtle music reference in the headline.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,739

    The morning thread also has a subtle music reference in the headline.

    Really?

    Take That PB!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,167

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    Figure 1 is from the OBR. You can look at it in an OBR document, but it's more prettily presented here. I'm not referring to the rest of the text.
    Which of my points a, b or c is wrong.....sorry the report is a steaming pile of bollocks and you dont like its been shown to be bollocks because like the idiots that wrote it you are an academic
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,167
    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    Personal income tax and NI is not the only way that people contribute to the economy and to tax revenues. GDP per worker is £90k per annum, while the average salary is only £37k.
    How much vat is someone earning 10 k a year contributing the answer is bugger all
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,752
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Reform have bought the Conservative Club in Blackpool, and turned it into the first ‘Reform Pub’

    Gawd, it's actually grimmer than I even imagined.
    #ThePhoenixClub #ReformUKPub #Blackpool #Reform #ReformUK #Farage

    https://x.com/in_bloke/status/1922253489318629879?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    https://x.com/NoContextBrits/status/1918669049879208149

    Sorry 🙂
    I demand this is made our Eurovision entry this year.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,500
    edited 7:55PM
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    Personal income tax and NI is not the only way that people contribute to the economy and to tax revenues. GDP per worker is £90k per annum, while the average salary is only £37k.
    How much vat is someone earning 10 k a year contributing the answer is bugger all
    What do you make of farmers then? They grow about 70% of the nation's food consumption, but most of their income comes from subsidies. Their food means that you and I can go to work and contribute to the economy and pay our taxes.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,752
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    I think, regardless of the ins and outs of what happened and who was in the right or wrong, questions should be asked about how our Foreign Secretary was under any circumstances whatsoever able to get into a taxi driven by somebody who stole his luggage.

    That just shouldn't have happened.
    I imagine he looked around to try - desperately - to find some sign of the police or security services. But, sadly, none were to be found.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,167
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    Personal income tax and NI is not the only way that people contribute to the economy and to tax revenues. GDP per worker is £90k per annum, while the average salary is only £37k.
    How much vat is someone earning 10 k a year contributing the answer is bugger all
    Because the figure of 90k is heavily distorted by the top few percent

    100 people....all earn 30k except 1 (ie the top 1 percent) who earns 10 million....average gdp per worker = ((99 * 30000) + 10000000)/100....gdp per worker = 129700

    See doesnt take too many people at the top on huge salaries which a lot of the top 1% are to distort the figure
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,739
    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    Personal income tax and NI is not the only way that people contribute to the economy and to tax revenues. GDP per worker is £90k per annum, while the average salary is only £37k.
    How much vat is someone earning 10 k a year contributing the answer is bugger all
    What do you make of farmers then? They grow about 70% of the nation's food consumption, but most of their income comes from subsidies. Their food means that you and I can go to work and contribute to the economy and pay our taxes.
    Paddy McCoy, an elderly Irish farmer, received a letter from the Department for Work & Pensions stating that they suspected he was not paying his employees the statutory minimum wage and they would send an inspector to interview them.
    On the appointed day, the inspector turned up.
    "Tell me about your staff," he asked Paddy.
    "Well," said Paddy, "there's the farm hand, I pay him £240 a week, and he has a free cottage.
    Then there's the housekeeper. She gets £190 a week, along with free board and lodging.
    There's also the half-wit. He works a 16 hour day, does 90% of the work, earns about £25 a week along with a bottle of whisky and, as a special treat, occasionally gets to sleep with my wife."
    "That's disgraceful" said the inspector, "I need to interview the half-wit."
    "That'll be me then," said Paddy!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,984
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    For obscure reasons, I've had cause today to get in touch with Deutsche Bahn. I tried to find an email address on their website. Not only was this easy to do, but it turned out to be even easier to phone them. They not only told you what their phone number was, they were actually quite open about it. For most British companies you have to hunt their number down like a hawk after a rodent - it's there but they don't want you to know it.
    It's actually easier to have an English-speaking conversation with Deutsche Bahn than with its British equivalent. Whatever that is.

    It's such horseshit. Even if they can demonstrate a lower customer services "overhead" I bet the brand damage costs more.

    It's probably more that Brits don't want to talk to other people if they can possibly avoid it.
    I had to contact British Gas multiple times recently and despite low expectations was astonished at how bad their customer service is. Nothing they were supposed to arrange ever happened, almost no notes of the increasingly lengthy saga were taken. They paid out £80 in compensation for the service being so shit.

    Not hard to see why they're bleeding customers.
    They once made me physically tremble.
    I had my hands shake I was so furious with someone recently. I'd always thought that was a myth.
    I thought the same about Kundalini orgasms. Until I had one with my Corbynite wife
    I'm not sure @kinabalu has ever had any type of orgasm.
    July 4th. Oh god oh god oh god.
    I'm having what he's having!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,167
    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    Personal income tax and NI is not the only way that people contribute to the economy and to tax revenues. GDP per worker is £90k per annum, while the average salary is only £37k.
    How much vat is someone earning 10 k a year contributing the answer is bugger all
    What do you make of farmers then? They grow about 70% of the nation's food consumption, but most of their income comes from subsidies. Their food means that you and I can go to work and contribute to the economy and pay our taxes.
    Sadiq khan argued they will contribute money, that is what we are talking about. Peripherals are irrelevant because everyone working contributes those too so the only measure is fiscal as we all balance out with our work our other contributions.

    If you are so fond of farmers contributions why were you cheering on the IHT change on them, after all they grow 70% of the nations food consumption.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,096
    edited 8:04PM
    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,399

    fitalass said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.

    Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.

    If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.

    Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
    I'm sure you are correct Robert and that probably does explain why there have been no defections yet.

    I just think If the polls hold on like this, we will start to get reluctant and very nervous Conservative MPs defecting anyway, on the basis that better 'pot luck' with Nigel today than 'humble pie' and the dole come the GE tommorow.
    Surely that is also going to be the case for some reluctant and very nervous Labour MPs, especially in those red wall seats they regained from the Conservatives at the 2024 GE?
    You might be right. If anyone does, my money would be on someone like Mike Tapp MP (Dover). He has the Reform vibe imho
    You might be wise to consider reviewing your account name, before we get to the point where there are so few of you that you are effectively outing yourself? ;)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,800

    Shocked.

    TV personality makes police complaint about “traumatic” investigation into officer

    In 2023, Jackie Adedeji raised a historic complaint of sexual misconduct by a serving police officer. The detective who investigated her complaint is now under investigation for making inappropriate comments and then it emerged a third investigating officer had previously stood trial for rape.


    https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-tv-personality-makes-police-complaint-about-traumatic-investigation-into-officer

    The officer who ‘stood trial for rape’ was acquitted, so as I understand, is innocent according to the law.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,739
    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    Somehow I doubt if Tim Waltz will pardon his state crimes as well.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,739
    IanB2 said:

    fitalass said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lowe seems to have represented a strand of opinion that wanted to steer Reform to the right and he won the Musk endorsement as a result. Farrage strongly resisted this and politely told Musk where he could go (and Lowe too, far less politely.) By firmly rejecting any shift to the (dare we say radical?) right Farrage has gained more by this then he has lost.

    Indeed: but the issue for Reform in attracting Conservative defections (which they should want to do), is that it helps when people get on with the Party leader.

    If you don't get on with the Party leader, and get kicked out of the Party, and you get the police sicc'ed on you.

    Well, it makes you think twice about jumping ship.
    I'm sure you are correct Robert and that probably does explain why there have been no defections yet.

    I just think If the polls hold on like this, we will start to get reluctant and very nervous Conservative MPs defecting anyway, on the basis that better 'pot luck' with Nigel today than 'humble pie' and the dole come the GE tommorow.
    Surely that is also going to be the case for some reluctant and very nervous Labour MPs, especially in those red wall seats they regained from the Conservatives at the 2024 GE?
    You might be right. If anyone does, my money would be on someone like Mike Tapp MP (Dover). He has the Reform vibe imho
    You might be wise to consider reviewing your account name, before we get to the point where there are so few of you that you are effectively outing yourself? ;)
    Well, there are very few artisanal flint knappers in the world. Still fewer ones that write travel articles.

    But for some reason I can't identify any of them as Leon...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,056
    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    I don't know enough about the incident to know whether he is guilty or not. But I find it almost impossible to imagine he had a fair trial.
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 294
    edited 8:20PM

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    For obscure reasons, I've had cause today to get in touch with Deutsche Bahn. I tried to find an email address on their website. Not only was this easy to do, but it turned out to be even easier to phone them. They not only told you what their phone number was, they were actually quite open about it. For most British companies you have to hunt their number down like a hawk after a rodent - it's there but they don't want you to know it.
    It's actually easier to have an English-speaking conversation with Deutsche Bahn than with its British equivalent. Whatever that is.

    It's such horseshit. Even if they can demonstrate a lower customer services "overhead" I bet the brand damage costs more.

    It's probably more that Brits don't want to talk to other people if they can possibly avoid it.
    I had to contact British Gas multiple times recently and despite low expectations was astonished at how bad their customer service is. Nothing they were supposed to arrange ever happened, almost no notes of the increasingly lengthy saga were taken. They paid out £80 in compensation for the service being so shit.

    Not hard to see why they're bleeding customers.
    They once made me physically tremble.
    I had my hands shake I was so furious with someone recently. I'd always thought that was a myth.
    I thought the same about Kundalini orgasms. Until I had one with my Corbynite wife
    I'm not sure @kinabalu has ever had any type of orgasm.
    July 4th. Oh god oh god oh god.
    I'm having what he's having!
    Grammar can be complex in a threaded context. I do not really need to know this either. But.
    Is Sunil sleeping with Mrs Kinabalu or the Corbynite ex-wife?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,500
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    Personal income tax and NI is not the only way that people contribute to the economy and to tax revenues. GDP per worker is £90k per annum, while the average salary is only £37k.
    How much vat is someone earning 10 k a year contributing the answer is bugger all
    What do you make of farmers then? They grow about 70% of the nation's food consumption, but most of their income comes from subsidies. Their food means that you and I can go to work and contribute to the economy and pay our taxes.
    Sadiq khan argued they will contribute money, that is what we are talking about. Peripherals are irrelevant because everyone working contributes those too so the only measure is fiscal as we all balance out with our work our other contributions.

    If you are so fond of farmers contributions why were you cheering on the IHT change on them, after all they grow 70% of the nations food consumption.
    I'm just pointing out that salary is not a good indicator of economic contribution. If a social care worker from Nigeria on minimum wage enables two working age adults to rejoin the workforce instead of caring for a relative, taxes per capita would likely increase.

    (It was a IHT on landowners, not farmers. Though many farmers happen to be them too. Having spent some time in Australia, I appreciate what a raw deal farmers get here with our extraordinarily low supermarket prices)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,739
    edited 8:23PM
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    I don't know enough about the incident to know whether he is guilty or not. But I find it almost impossible to imagine he had a fair trial.
    By that logic there should be no felons at all in American prisons.

    I suppose that might be Trump's thinking (if we can call what goes on in his brain 'thinking').
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,514

    The morning thread also has a subtle music reference in the headline.

    Unlike this thread's header where the headline was as subtle as a Reform Party leaflet about immigration.

    It's also, which is a far worse sin, not the first time you've tried a pun using Joy Division - it was "Gove will tear us apart" last time.

    On a complete tangent, this time last week we were in Cadiz and by the fish market there was a bloke on a guitar playing Sultans of Swing and I realised that tune is nearly 50 years ago. It is the classical music de nos jours and will likely still be played in 50 years time.

    I feel old...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,105
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Kemi very very good on PMQs.

    Sir Gobble Gobble fluffed his lines, though with the Tories' recent travails, that was lucky for Badenoch.

    Were you really listening to this week’s?

    Kemi trying to make something of a moribund department store closing, which the company owner (who by coincidence is a known Tory member) tried to jokingly link to Reeves by having a Reeves closing down sale, when it transpires that the company closed most of its stores during the last government and went into liquidation three years ago? So no link with the NI changes in the budget at all! Kemi clearly read the poorly researched little item in the Torygraph and rushed to PMQs to blurt it out, without doing any checking or research at all. Is that the sort of person we need running our country??
    You undermine your own argument. My verdict was pronounced on who had the best of the exchange. You on the other hand had to go off and research why Kemi was wrong. Whether or not upon reflection and research I agree with your points or not (I suspect I wouldn't), that has nothing to do with who had the best of the exchange - if you're explaining, you're losing.

    Kemi was clear and lucid in her attacks, and responded in real time when Sir Useless made a false claim about Government support for hospices. He was evasive (which focus groups hate) and tried to go on the attack, but even judged purely on how he executed that strategy, he gobbled his 'dead party walking' attack lines and threw them away.
    Let’s see how things look when the facts come out…

    Not that I think Starmer did well. The most notable thing is how wary he is of Ed Davey’s questions, his knowing that they are very carefully aimed at the real views of most of the MPs sitting behind our PM.
    Labour defections to the Lib Dems coming soon?
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 294

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    For obscure reasons, I've had cause today to get in touch with Deutsche Bahn. I tried to find an email address on their website. Not only was this easy to do, but it turned out to be even easier to phone them. They not only told you what their phone number was, they were actually quite open about it. For most British companies you have to hunt their number down like a hawk after a rodent - it's there but they don't want you to know it.
    It's actually easier to have an English-speaking conversation with Deutsche Bahn than with its British equivalent. Whatever that is.

    It's such horseshit. Even if they can demonstrate a lower customer services "overhead" I bet the brand damage costs more.

    It's probably more that Brits don't want to talk to other people if they can possibly avoid it.
    I had to contact British Gas multiple times recently and despite low expectations was astonished at how bad their customer service is. Nothing they were supposed to arrange ever happened, almost no notes of the increasingly lengthy saga were taken. They paid out £80 in compensation for the service being so shit.

    Not hard to see why they're bleeding customers.
    They once made me physically tremble.
    I had my hands shake I was so furious with someone recently. I'd always thought that was a myth.
    I thought the same about Kundalini orgasms. Until I had one with my Corbynite wife
    I'm not sure @kinabalu has ever had any type of orgasm.
    July 4th. Oh god oh god oh god.
    I'm having what he's having!
    Grammar can be complex in a threaded context. I do not really need to know this either. But.
    Is Sunil sleeping with Mrs Kinabalu or the Corbynite ex-wife?
    And my pronouns sourcing is a bit retro too.
    Sorry if I’ve taken a simplistic position.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,379
    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    That would be controversial even by Trump standards .
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,056
    stodge said:

    The morning thread also has a subtle music reference in the headline.

    Unlike this thread's header where the headline was as subtle as a Reform Party leaflet about immigration.

    It's also, which is a far worse sin, not the first time you've tried a pun using Joy Division - it was "Gove will tear us apart" last time.

    On a complete tangent, this time last week we were in Cadiz and by the fish market there was a bloke on a guitar playing Sultans of Swing and I realised that tune is nearly 50 years ago. It is the classical music de nos jours and will likely still be played in 50 years time.

    I feel old...
    I really like this version - the impatient can skip the first 30 seconds, in which nothing happens.
    https://youtu.be/x0RV0kgdqJU?si=PyX-P_XmeMHgxBNB

    Dire Straits are a bit of a guilty pleasure.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,105
    Video of that Tanker interception (or not) by the Estonians. The commentator is Suchomimus, who is a western Ukraine commentator with a wonderful accent.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Z0Ew10Jds
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,056
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    I don't know enough about the incident to know whether he is guilty or not. But I find it almost impossible to imagine he had a fair trial.
    By that logic there should be no felons at all in American prisons.

    I suppose that might be Trump's thinking (if we can call what goes on in his brain 'thinking').
    Well there can't have been too many whose case was so difficult for a jury to take a neutral and disinterested view of. Must have been hard for a jury to try this when there were actual riots going in in support of the victim.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,219
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Kemi very very good on PMQs.

    Sir Gobble Gobble fluffed his lines, though with the Tories' recent travails, that was lucky for Badenoch.

    Were you really listening to this week’s?

    Kemi trying to make something of a moribund department store closing, which the company owner (who by coincidence is a known Tory member) tried to jokingly link to Reeves by having a Reeves closing down sale, when it transpires that the company closed most of its stores during the last government and went into liquidation three years ago? So no link with the NI changes in the budget at all! Kemi clearly read the poorly researched little item in the Torygraph and rushed to PMQs to blurt it out, without doing any checking or research at all. Is that the sort of person we need running our country??
    You undermine your own argument. My verdict was pronounced on who had the best of the exchange. You on the other hand had to go off and research why Kemi was wrong. Whether or not upon reflection and research I agree with your points or not (I suspect I wouldn't), that has nothing to do with who had the best of the exchange - if you're explaining, you're losing.

    Kemi was clear and lucid in her attacks, and responded in real time when Sir Useless made a false claim about Government support for hospices. He was evasive (which focus groups hate) and tried to go on the attack, but even judged purely on how he executed that strategy, he gobbled his 'dead party walking' attack lines and threw them away.
    Let’s see how things look when the facts come out…

    Not that I think Starmer did well. The most notable thing is how wary he is of Ed Davey’s questions, his knowing that they are very carefully aimed at the real views of most of the MPs sitting behind our PM.
    Labour defections to the Lib Dems coming soon?
    I very much doubt if there is a realistic chance of Labour defections to LDs at the moment. There is a possible way in which this could happen between now and the next election.

    The LD problem is that they are credited with a chance in up to about 100 seats - more or less none currently Labour. But, just as Reform have gone from outsiders to potentially winning 300+ seats so a similar trajectory could take the LDs from where they are to a similar place. This needs momentum and incremental polling rises.

    Success breeds success, momentum breeds momentum and in two years the next election could be talked about as LD v Reform if such and such occurs. And then the defections. Tory to LDs and Reform; Labour to LD.

    I give that sort of picture a 10% chance. The voters are getting a taste for destruction of great parties.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,880
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    I don't know enough about the incident to know whether he is guilty or not. But I find it almost impossible to imagine he had a fair trial.
    He didn't. Not even close.

    He's guilty though. Question is the sentence and how he's being treated.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,934
    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14710271/Taxi-driver-says-victim-assault-David-Lammy-wife-refused-pay-590-fare-driving-Italy-French-ski-resort.html

    A taxi driver has claimed British Foreign Secretary David Lammy and his wife Nicola Green refused to pay a fare of nearly £600 after he drove them more than 360 miles from Italy to a ski resort in France.

    The driver said he collected Lammy, 52 and his artist wife, 53, on April 10 at the town of Forli near Bologna after they had accompanied King Charles and Queen Camilla on a three-day state visit to Italy.

    But he alleges that Lammy 'became aggressive' when asked for payment after he drove some six hours into the night to reach Flaine, a ski village in Haute Savoie in the French Alps.

    Given it would be on expenses , why was he concerned.
    Some expenses policies forbid paying anything in addition to the pre-approved expenditure to prevent various shenanigans. Imagine if it got out that Lammy was expensing way more than what the FO system deemed necessary.

    It shouldn’t be on expenses anyway



  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,880
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    I don't know enough about the incident to know whether he is guilty or not. But I find it almost impossible to imagine he had a fair trial.
    If you said anything other than he should burn in hell for eternity in 2020 you'd have risked your livelihood, or worse, and possibly even had your collar felt.

    That was one hell of a crazy year.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,984

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    For obscure reasons, I've had cause today to get in touch with Deutsche Bahn. I tried to find an email address on their website. Not only was this easy to do, but it turned out to be even easier to phone them. They not only told you what their phone number was, they were actually quite open about it. For most British companies you have to hunt their number down like a hawk after a rodent - it's there but they don't want you to know it.
    It's actually easier to have an English-speaking conversation with Deutsche Bahn than with its British equivalent. Whatever that is.

    It's such horseshit. Even if they can demonstrate a lower customer services "overhead" I bet the brand damage costs more.

    It's probably more that Brits don't want to talk to other people if they can possibly avoid it.
    I had to contact British Gas multiple times recently and despite low expectations was astonished at how bad their customer service is. Nothing they were supposed to arrange ever happened, almost no notes of the increasingly lengthy saga were taken. They paid out £80 in compensation for the service being so shit.

    Not hard to see why they're bleeding customers.
    They once made me physically tremble.
    I had my hands shake I was so furious with someone recently. I'd always thought that was a myth.
    I thought the same about Kundalini orgasms. Until I had one with my Corbynite wife
    I'm not sure @kinabalu has ever had any type of orgasm.
    July 4th. Oh god oh god oh god.
    I'm having what he's having!
    Grammar can be complex in a threaded context. I do not really need to know this either. But.
    Is Sunil sleeping with Mrs Kinabalu or the Corbynite ex-wife?
    It's just a "When Harry Met Sally" reference.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX9qfSEKyuc
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,934
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14710271/Taxi-driver-says-victim-assault-David-Lammy-wife-refused-pay-590-fare-driving-Italy-French-ski-resort.html

    A taxi driver has claimed British Foreign Secretary David Lammy and his wife Nicola Green refused to pay a fare of nearly £600 after he drove them more than 360 miles from Italy to a ski resort in France.

    The driver said he collected Lammy, 52 and his artist wife, 53, on April 10 at the town of Forli near Bologna after they had accompanied King Charles and Queen Camilla on a three-day state visit to Italy.

    But he alleges that Lammy 'became aggressive' when asked for payment after he drove some six hours into the night to reach Flaine, a ski village in Haute Savoie in the French Alps.

    He had paid £800 and was asked for another £600 cash at the end.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9ygl5g5n9o

    The taxi driver is being prosecuted.
    For driving the stolen goods to the nearest police station..
    And removing a considerable amount of cash from Lammy's wife's handbag.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9ygl5g5n9o
    Pretty mad for a thief to go directly to a police station and report a theft
    I don't want to get into the legality or otherwise of this....however am I the only one that thinks booking a 600 taxi ride is odd?
    I've paid for insanely expensive taxi rides two or three times, and it's usually been because there's been no other option.

    For example: I was once diverted to Atlanta, due to weather and landed there at 8pm. The problem was that I needed to be in Pensacola the next morning for a 9am meeting that was not missable (and this was before Zoom). So, I paid an insane amount of money to get someone to drive
    me 300 or so miles.

    Another time, I had a package holiday booked and work interfered and I wasn't going to be there at the start of the trip, so I needed to get a taxi a ridiculous distance.
    I did an overnight taxi ride from Stockholm tp Brussels once to catch the Eurostar…
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,402

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    I don't know enough about the incident to know whether he is guilty or not. But I find it almost impossible to imagine he had a fair trial.
    If you said anything other than he should burn in hell for eternity in 2020 you'd have risked your livelihood, or worse, and possibly even had your collar felt.

    That was one hell of a crazy year.
    It's a positive sign for equities that he's moving away from the economic madness of tariffs onto meat and drink culture wars
  • isamisam Posts: 41,602
    edited 8:57PM

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    Well obviously we don't pay for migrant's education, but if you take that out, it shows we should only take the highly skilled, which is what immigration sceptics have been saying for the last 20 years
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,219
    edited 9:00PM
    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    Personal income tax and NI is not the only way that people contribute to the economy and to tax revenues. GDP per worker is £90k per annum, while the average salary is only £37k.
    How much vat is someone earning 10 k a year contributing the answer is bugger all
    What do you make of farmers then? They grow about 70% of the nation's food consumption, but most of their income comes from subsidies. Their food means that you and I can go to work and contribute to the economy and pay our taxes.
    Sadiq khan argued they will contribute money, that is what we are talking about. Peripherals are irrelevant because everyone working contributes those too so the only measure is fiscal as we all balance out with our work our other contributions.

    If you are so fond of farmers contributions why were you cheering on the IHT change on them, after all they grow 70% of the nations food consumption.
    I'm just pointing out that salary is not a good indicator of economic contribution. If a social care worker from Nigeria on minimum wage enables two working age adults to rejoin the workforce instead of caring for a relative, taxes per capita would likely increase.

    (It was a IHT on landowners, not farmers. Though many farmers happen to be them too. Having spent some time in Australia, I appreciate what a raw deal farmers get here with our extraordinarily low supermarket prices)
    Economic contribution is a limited indicator of reality. Farming's contribution to the economy in financial terms is marginal. But that is to judge by price not value. You can't eat diamonds or financial services.

    When I look at what the genuinely voluntary sector does in rural and small town communities, it adds up to a huge contribution, showing up nowhere in GDP. Add child care and old people care within families. It's colossal. A society that doesn't have a way of pricing in all these things - to say nothing of bird song, trees and nice free stuff - is binding itself in chains.

    (I am retired and live a privileged existence. I have spend much of today doing some of those things for free, including in a school. I consider myself lucky to be able to).
  • isamisam Posts: 41,602
    edited 9:05PM

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    For obscure reasons, I've had cause today to get in touch with Deutsche Bahn. I tried to find an email address on their website. Not only was this easy to do, but it turned out to be even easier to phone them. They not only told you what their phone number was, they were actually quite open about it. For most British companies you have to hunt their number down like a hawk after a rodent - it's there but they don't want you to know it.
    It's actually easier to have an English-speaking conversation with Deutsche Bahn than with its British equivalent. Whatever that is.

    It's such horseshit. Even if they can demonstrate a lower customer services "overhead" I bet the brand damage costs more.

    It's probably more that Brits don't want to talk to other people if they can possibly avoid it.
    I had to contact British Gas multiple times recently and despite low expectations was astonished at how bad their customer service is. Nothing they were supposed to arrange ever happened, almost no notes of the increasingly lengthy saga were taken. They paid out £80 in compensation for the service being so shit.

    Not hard to see why they're bleeding customers.
    They once made me physically tremble.
    I had my hands shake I was so furious with someone recently. I'd always thought that was a myth.
    I thought the same about Kundalini orgasms. Until I had one with my Corbynite wife
    I'm not sure @kinabalu has ever had any type of orgasm.
    July 4th. Oh god oh god oh god.
    I'm having what he's having!
    Grammar can be complex in a threaded context. I do not really need to know this either. But.
    Is Sunil sleeping with Mrs Kinabalu or the Corbynite ex-wife?
    It's just a "When Harry Met Sally" reference.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX9qfSEKyuc
    The Muppets version of that scene, with Miss Piggy playing the Meg Ryan role, is absolutely brilliant

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqfIHlap7G8
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,272
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    I don't know enough about the incident to know whether he is guilty or not. But I find it almost impossible to imagine he had a fair trial.
    By that logic there should be no felons at all in American prisons.

    I suppose that might be Trump's thinking (if we can call what goes on in his brain 'thinking').
    Well there can't have been too many whose case was so difficult for a jury to take a neutral and disinterested view of. Must have been hard for a jury to try this when there were actual riots going in in support of the victim.
    You're saying that if you kill someone in a manner which he sufficiently high profile, you shouldn't be tried ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,396
    @maitlis

    BREAKING: No Trump and no Putin attending Turkey peace talks. This kind of makes Zelenskyy s point Russia is not serious about peace right now - .. 🇺🇦 🇷🇺
  • isamisam Posts: 41,602
    stodge said:

    The morning thread also has a subtle music reference in the headline.

    Unlike this thread's header where the headline was as subtle as a Reform Party leaflet about immigration.

    It's also, which is a far worse sin, not the first time you've tried a pun using Joy Division - it was "Gove will tear us apart" last time.

    On a complete tangent, this time last week we were in Cadiz and by the fish market there was a bloke on a guitar playing Sultans of Swing and I realised that tune is nearly 50 years ago. It is the classical music de nos jours and will likely still be played in 50 years time.

    I feel old...
    It's difficult to argue Reform aren't having any joy as well... and who are the "us"?

    Anyway, last year I read up about Sultan's of Swing, interesting back story. Knopfler in a SE London pub watching a crappy jazz band being ignored by half a dozen punters
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,500
    Scott_xP said:

    @maitlis

    BREAKING: No Trump and no Putin attending Turkey peace talks. This kind of makes Zelenskyy s point Russia is not serious about peace right now - .. 🇺🇦 🇷🇺

    Should give them the tub of lard treatment.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,399

    Went to a little restaurant a hundred yards from my Airbnb, called Oui Oui Cherie, and had delicious duck breast


    The French do know what to do with a duck.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,196
    IanB2 said:

    Went to a little restaurant a hundred yards from my Airbnb, called Oui Oui Cherie, and had delicious duck breast


    The French do know what to do with a duck.
    It’s ’kin ‘ard.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,490
    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:



    A skilled migrant’s family will contribute £12,000 a year.’
    ‘A British skilled worker’s family takes from the economy.’

    Sadiq Khan has a ‘lovely stat’ that he says dispels the idea that migrants are 'sponges or skivers’.


    https://x.com/lbc/status/1922289232606835017?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sadiq khan talking bollocks that makes a change
    I don’t know about Khan’s specific figure, but take a look at figure 1 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/
    From the link you posted can I point you at a quote "Oxford Economics (2018) found that a single 20-year old with no children only needed to earn just over £10,000 per year to ‘break even"....now given as I think you will agree someone on 10k a year is

    a) paying not tax or ni.
    b) as someone the other day posts cant remember who average nhs costs by decile age which sited 20 to 29 the average nhs cost was 2k
    c) at 10k a year frankly they cant afford to live here unless getting top up benefits

    I call that report a complete steaming pile of bollocks
    Personal income tax and NI is not the only way that people contribute to the economy and to tax revenues. GDP per worker is £90k per annum, while the average salary is only £37k.
    How much vat is someone earning 10 k a year contributing the answer is bugger all
    What do you make of farmers then? They grow about 70% of the nation's food consumption, but most of their income comes from subsidies. Their food means that you and I can go to work and contribute to the economy and pay our taxes.
    Sadiq khan argued they will contribute money, that is what we are talking about. Peripherals are irrelevant because everyone working contributes those too so the only measure is fiscal as we all balance out with our work our other contributions.

    If you are so fond of farmers contributions why were you cheering on the IHT change on them, after all they grow 70% of the nations food consumption.
    I'm just pointing out that salary is not a good indicator of economic contribution. If a social care worker from Nigeria on minimum wage enables two working age adults to rejoin the workforce instead of caring for a relative, taxes per capita would likely increase.

    (It was a IHT on landowners, not farmers. Though many farmers happen to be them too. Having spent some time in Australia, I appreciate what a raw deal farmers get here with our extraordinarily low supermarket prices)
    Economic contribution is a limited indicator of reality. Farming's contribution to the economy in financial terms is marginal. But that is to judge by price not value. You can't eat diamonds or financial services.

    When I look at what the genuinely voluntary sector does in rural and small town communities, it adds up to a huge contribution, showing up nowhere in GDP. Add child care and old people care within families. It's colossal. A society that doesn't have a way of pricing in all these things - to say nothing of bird song, trees and nice free stuff - is binding itself in chains.

    (I am retired and live a privileged existence. I have spend much of today doing some of those things for free, including in a school. I consider myself lucky to be able to).
    I gave up replying 'retired' when asked about my work because I work as hard as I'm able. But all voluntary, so no economic contribution.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,196
    Starmer’s gone too far this time.

    https://x.com/bbcpolitics/status/1922577343857537036

    Margaret Thatcher festival planned to mark centenary of her birth
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,255
    isam said:

    stodge said:

    The morning thread also has a subtle music reference in the headline.

    Unlike this thread's header where the headline was as subtle as a Reform Party leaflet about immigration.

    It's also, which is a far worse sin, not the first time you've tried a pun using Joy Division - it was "Gove will tear us apart" last time.

    On a complete tangent, this time last week we were in Cadiz and by the fish market there was a bloke on a guitar playing Sultans of Swing and I realised that tune is nearly 50 years ago. It is the classical music de nos jours and will likely still be played in 50 years time.

    I feel old...
    It's difficult to argue Reform aren't having any joy as well... and who are the "us"?

    Anyway, last year I read up about Sultan's of Swing, interesting back story. Knopfler in a SE London pub watching a crappy jazz band being ignored by half a dozen punters
    The White Swan. Long closed, not far from me and @OnlyLivingBoy
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,255
    edited 9:29PM
    Scott_xP said:

    @maitlis

    BREAKING: No Trump and no Putin attending Turkey peace talks. This kind of makes Zelenskyy s point Russia is not serious about peace right now - .. 🇺🇦 🇷🇺

    Russia appears to be planning a spring offensive. I expect the aim is for a final push, show Trump resistance is futile and Ukraine needs to give Russia what it wants, and then come away with a very generous settlement.

    Hopefully it’ll have similar success to the German spring offensive of 1918.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,970
    edited 9:29PM
    LONDON (Reuters) -U.S. energy officials are reassessing the risk posed by Chinese-made devices that play a critical role in renewable energy infrastructure after unexplained communication equipment was found inside some of them, two people familiar with the matter said.

    Power inverters, which are predominantly produced in China, are used throughout the world to connect solar panels and wind turbines to electricity grids. They are also found in batteries, heat pumps and electric vehicle chargers.

    While inverters are built to allow remote access for updates and maintenance, the utility companies that use them typically install firewalls to prevent direct communication back to China.

    However, rogue communication devices not listed in product documents have been found in some Chinese solar power inverters by U.S experts who strip down equipment hooked up to grids to check for security issues, the two people said.

    ---

    Now about those Chinese cars.....
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,255
    edited 9:30PM
    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    That would be controversial even by Trump standards .
    We’re all Chauvin-ists now
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,970
    Does Putin ever leave Russia?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,602
    Edward Leigh(Tory MP): "I've been a member of the Conservative friends of Israel for over 40 years... when is genocide not genocide?"

    https://x.com/haggis_uk/status/1922623401430008147?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,255

    Does Putin ever leave Russia?

    He visited Donbas a few months ago.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,970
    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    That would be controversial even by Trump standards .
    My understanding is that because he was found guilty of state and federal charges that a Trump pardon wouldn't make much difference in the short term, he would still be in a jail for a long time. It would make a difference way down the line with potential for parole.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,500

    LONDON (Reuters) -U.S. energy officials are reassessing the risk posed by Chinese-made devices that play a critical role in renewable energy infrastructure after unexplained communication equipment was found inside some of them, two people familiar with the matter said.

    Power inverters, which are predominantly produced in China, are used throughout the world to connect solar panels and wind turbines to electricity grids. They are also found in batteries, heat pumps and electric vehicle chargers.

    While inverters are built to allow remote access for updates and maintenance, the utility companies that use them typically install firewalls to prevent direct communication back to China.

    However, rogue communication devices not listed in product documents have been found in some Chinese solar power inverters by U.S experts who strip down equipment hooked up to grids to check for security issues, the two people said.

    ---

    Now about those Chinese cars.....

    I note that we still don't have a reason for the Spanish power cut.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,970
    TimS said:

    Does Putin ever leave Russia?

    He visited Donbas a few months ago.
    As I say, does he ever leave Russia*.....

    * The land he sees as Russia.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,884
    Still laughing from yesterday over the Who Wants To Be A Millionaire contestant who unironically said he left Leicester in order to get away from "life in the fast lane".
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,105
    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    This could be some top trolling.

    A pardon for Derek Chauvin.

    https://x.com/leadingreport/status/1922666435836264893?s=61

    That would be controversial even by Trump standards .
    I'd say it's something Trump might try as an attempt to reignite riots so he could declare a state of emergency, or similar. IMO he's that cynical, and at present elements of the system are still standing up to him; his backers will not like that.

    I don't know the case in detail either, but both the Medical Examiner and the family's Doctor found cause of death to be homicide, and kneeling on someone's neck for 9 minutes until they are very thoroughly dead is ... a touch suggestive.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,207

    Starmer’s gone too far this time.

    https://x.com/bbcpolitics/status/1922577343857537036

    Margaret Thatcher festival planned to mark centenary of her birth

    ''What a good idea!'' 😇
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,804
    IanB2 said:

    Went to a little restaurant a hundred yards from my Airbnb, called Oui Oui Cherie, and had delicious duck breast


    The French do know what to do with a duck.
    I do love a bit of duck: a much undereaten meat. (And I not too woke I hope, @Casino_Royale?)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,984
    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Went to a little restaurant a hundred yards from my Airbnb, called Oui Oui Cherie, and had delicious duck breast


    The French do know what to do with a duck.
    I do love a bit of duck: a much undereaten meat. (And I not too woke I hope, @Casino_Royale?)
    Is it vegan???
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,402
    Andy_JS said:

    Still laughing from yesterday over the Who Wants To Be A Millionaire contestant who unironically said he left Leicester in order to get away from "life in the fast lane".

    All the way to Junction 22 of the M1
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,402

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Went to a little restaurant a hundred yards from my Airbnb, called Oui Oui Cherie, and had delicious duck breast


    The French do know what to do with a duck.
    I do love a bit of duck: a much undereaten meat. (And I not too woke I hope, @Casino_Royale?)
    Is it vegan???
    No. Birds all tend to love a wriggly worm or three.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,576
    Andy_JS said:

    Still laughing from yesterday over the Who Wants To Be A Millionaire contestant who unironically said he left Leicester in order to get away from "life in the fast lane".

    Not everyone can take the pace.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,970
    edited 9:56PM
    Who could have guessed that Apple faked most of their Apple (Un)Intelligence demos.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,822

    Starmer’s gone too far this time.

    https://x.com/bbcpolitics/status/1922577343857537036

    Margaret Thatcher festival planned to mark centenary of her birth

    Most amusing. South Kesteven District Council must be awash with money.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,272
    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,970
    edited 10:01PM
    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    2039....Its a f##king railway not search for AGI.....in fact we will probably have AGI before HS2 is finished.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,822
    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    On a point of order, it's not accurate to place Old Oak Common in outer London, given it's in Acton and not far from Notting Hill.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,984
    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    2039? I'll be 64 that year - what was the Beatles song?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,984

    Starmer’s gone too far this time.

    https://x.com/bbcpolitics/status/1922577343857537036

    Margaret Thatcher festival planned to mark centenary of her birth

    Most amusing. South Kesteven District Council must be awash with money.
    They'll receive a Government Grantham.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,579

    Does Putin ever leave Russia?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_visit_by_Vladimir_Putin_to_China

    Probably not going to get a second UK state visit unless Starmer really wants to ingratiate himself with Trump.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,884
    edited 10:12PM
    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    It's no exaggeration to say I'm probably going to be in a care home by the time this project is finished, and I was only 25 when I started posting on PB.

    If it had been built by a team of tortoises it would have been finished earlier.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,970
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    It's no exaggeration to say I'm probably going to be in a care home by the time this project is finished, and I was only 25 when I started posting on PB.

    If it had been built by a team of tortoises it would have been finished earlier.
    But you will be able to get to London 10 minutes faster on your one day out a year from the care home....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,970

    Does Putin ever leave Russia?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_visit_by_Vladimir_Putin_to_China

    Probably not going to get a second UK state visit unless Starmer really wants to ingratiate himself with Trump.
    So its literally once in 5+ years.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,563
    a
    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    For that money, we could build a reusable heavy lift rocket and have our own moon landings. Probably 5x over, if we don’t let BAe near it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,884
    isam said:

    Reform have bought the Conservative Club in Blackpool, and turned it into the first ‘Reform Pub’

    Gawd, it's actually grimmer than I even imagined.
    #ThePhoenixClub #ReformUKPub #Blackpool #Reform #ReformUK #Farage

    https://x.com/in_bloke/status/1922253489318629879?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    An amazing fact is that that pub has more public snooker tables than the whole of the United States.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,052

    Starmer’s gone too far this time.

    https://x.com/bbcpolitics/status/1922577343857537036

    Margaret Thatcher festival planned to mark centenary of her birth

    Most amusing. South Kesteven District Council must be awash with money.
    They'll receive a Government Grantham.
    Can you send us the Lincs?
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,133
    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    The ski holiday was almost certainly booked before Mr Lammy discovered he would be in Bologna. Otherwise Cortina or Cervinia would make much more sense.
    Yes I assume so.

    But I love these travel logistics challenges. It’s like race across the world (on in 15 minutes).

    Always more fun attempting public transport in these situations. London to Amsterdam is an example: boring flight to Schiphol, or the train to Brussels and change, or for the really adventurous get the Harwich ferry?

    EDIT: or by the time I next need to go to Amsterdam in June I might have a new EV, so perhaps I should make it a road trip via Calais.

    My son is somehow getting to our house outside Cluny next month with his friends on public transport that I didn’t even realise existed. There’s a bus you have to ring up to book.
    Here’s one I’m planning just for the fun of it:


  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,133
    edited 10:26PM
    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    The ski holiday was almost certainly booked before Mr Lammy discovered he would be in Bologna. Otherwise Cortina or Cervinia would make much more sense.
    Yes I assume so.

    But I love these travel logistics challenges. It’s like race across the world (on in 15 minutes).

    Always more fun attempting public transport in these situations. London to Amsterdam is an example: boring flight to Schiphol, or the train to Brussels and change, or for the really adventurous get the Harwich ferry?

    EDIT: or by the time I next need to go to Amsterdam in June I might have a new EV, so perhaps I should make it a road trip via Calais.

    My son is somehow getting to our house outside Cluny next month with his friends on public transport that I didn’t even realise existed. There’s a bus you have to ring up to book.
    Here’s a train trip I’m planning just for the fun of it:


  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,338
    edited 10:30PM
    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    Why is the UK so utterly hopeless when it comes to rail infrastructure projects or providing a fast and efficient reasonable priced rail service for travellers compared to other countries?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,884
    edited 10:29PM
    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    The ski holiday was almost certainly booked before Mr Lammy discovered he would be in Bologna. Otherwise Cortina or Cervinia would make much more sense.
    Yes I assume so.

    But I love these travel logistics challenges. It’s like race across the world (on in 15 minutes).

    Always more fun attempting public transport in these situations. London to Amsterdam is an example: boring flight to Schiphol, or the train to Brussels and change, or for the really adventurous get the Harwich ferry?

    EDIT: or by the time I next need to go to Amsterdam in June I might have a new EV, so perhaps I should make it a road trip via Calais.

    My son is somehow getting to our house outside Cluny next month with his friends on public transport that I didn’t even realise existed. There’s a bus you have to ring up to book.
    I travelled to Lisbon by train a few years ago, even though it was a lot more awkward than flying.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,884

    Who could have guessed that Apple faked most of their Apple (Un)Intelligence demos.

    I have no idea what this is about, I'll have to look it up.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    On a point of order, it's not accurate to place Old Oak Common in outer London, given it's in Acton and not far from Notting Hill.
    Old Oak Common is about three minutes by fast train out of Paddington. Why can they not extend HS2 into Paddington rather than cross London to Euston/ Kings Cross sometime in the 2070s?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,663
    sarissa said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    The ski holiday was almost certainly booked before Mr Lammy discovered he would be in Bologna. Otherwise Cortina or Cervinia would make much more sense.
    Yes I assume so.

    But I love these travel logistics challenges. It’s like race across the world (on in 15 minutes).

    Always more fun attempting public transport in these situations. London to Amsterdam is an example: boring flight to Schiphol, or the train to Brussels and change, or for the really adventurous get the Harwich ferry?

    EDIT: or by the time I next need to go to Amsterdam in June I might have a new EV, so perhaps I should make it a road trip via Calais.

    My son is somehow getting to our house outside Cluny next month with his friends on public transport that I didn’t even realise existed. There’s a bus you have to ring up to book.
    Here’s a train trip I’m planning just for the fun of it:


    Don't miss out Ragusa when you are in Sicily!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,379
    If rumours are correct it looks like the UK government are willing to provoke the “ Brexit betrayal “ tirades from the right wing press in an effort to give a boost to growth .

    And of course the OBR will factor in any easing of trade barriers with the EU to its forecasts so this could help Reeves .
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,563
    Andy_JS said:

    Who could have guessed that Apple faked most of their Apple (Un)Intelligence demos.

    I have no idea what this is about, I'll have to look it up.
    Many “AI” and robotics “demos” use a lot of humans behind the scenes.

    It turned out that the live Amazon store system that watched you, and charge you for what you picked up, was very often housing humans in cube farm in India to take over from the machines.

    Waymo (the automated taxi people) started with pretty much human remote driving and have progressed by reducing it. A lot.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,884

    Andy_JS said:

    Who could have guessed that Apple faked most of their Apple (Un)Intelligence demos.

    I have no idea what this is about, I'll have to look it up.
    Many “AI” and robotics “demos” use a lot of humans behind the scenes.

    It turned out that the live Amazon store system that watched you, and charge you for what you picked up, was very often housing humans in cube farm in India to take over from the machines.

    Waymo (the automated taxi people) started with pretty much human remote driving and have progressed by reducing it. A lot.
    Thanks Malmesbury.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,970
    edited 10:45PM

    Andy_JS said:

    Who could have guessed that Apple faked most of their Apple (Un)Intelligence demos.

    I have no idea what this is about, I'll have to look it up.
    Many “AI” and robotics “demos” use a lot of humans behind the scenes.

    It turned out that the live Amazon store system that watched you, and charge you for what you picked up, was very often housing humans in cube farm in India to take over from the machines.

    Waymo (the automated taxi people) started with pretty much human remote driving and have progressed by reducing it. A lot.
    The thing about the faked Apple Intelligence demo that was quite funny was it wasn't actually very impressive compared to state of the art models, so they have really been caught with their pants down. It seems this has all come to light because Apple are being sued by people who bought the new hardware they say because of the promised Apple Intelligence functionality.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,563

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    On a point of order, it's not accurate to place Old Oak Common in outer London, given it's in Acton and not far from Notting Hill.
    Old Oak Common is about three minutes by fast train out of Paddington. Why can they not extend HS2 into Paddington rather than cross London to Euston/ Kings Cross sometime in the 2070s?
    X billions.

    As I once pointed out to Paul Spudis - cost does matter. If going to the moon costs $20Bn per mission, you’ll be lucky to get another flag and some footprints.

    If train lines cost a billion a mile, we are not going to have many trains.

    At the costs of HS2, it is interesting to consider that, in most countries, it would have been cheaper to build the entire line as deep tunnel. Imagine it. Dead straight line, 250 feet down, below *everything*.

    But then we would have missed out on all the fun planning enquiries. And the bat tunnel farce.
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