From the Independent’s ‘View from Westminster’ email
Keir wins India trade deal – and that is a bad thing?
The prime minister has secured a trade deal with India that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak tried to deliver but could not. So the Conservatives are attacking it with extra brio.
Kemi Badenoch has denounced the national insurance contributions exemption for temporary workers as “two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir”, saying that she refused to agree to it when she was trade secretary.
As far as I can tell, that part of the deal is a normal double-taxation agreement, so that Indians working here temporarily but paying social security contributions in India would not be charged twice, with the same applying in reverse to British temporary workers in India.
But the terms will be exploited ruthlessly by the Tories and Reform, given the salience of immigration at the moment. Keir Starmer’s triumph has been muffled by the failure to prepare the ground for the tricky details.
Does anybody here actually know whether the new ‘online triage’ offered/forced on patients at my local GP count toward the ‘millions of extra appointments’ Labour are talking about securing? @foxy ?
I have no idea.
The numbers of GP appointments both face to face and online used to be published on the DoH website, so should be fairly easy to analyse.
I had it in mind that an online appointment was a communication with the doctor in real time, ie they’re on the other end of a chat or Skype/teams call. What I got was a series of preset multiple choice questions on the gov.uk website, but that might just be what they mean by triage rather than an online appointment
Yes, I don't think that sort of triage would count as an appointment.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the actual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad
Who was the Supreme Allied Commander who oversaw D day and victory in Europe?
A. General Dwight Eisenhower B. Sir Winston Churchill C. Captain George Mainwaring D. General Bernard Montgomery
Popular and actual answers to follow.
All of the above.
A) Military commander B Politician who insisted on more divisions. C) Organised the lynch pin of rear area defence D) Kept Eisenhower on his toes by wanting his job so obviously.
The episode of Dad's Army on right now is where Godfrey's courage is called into question.
Amid the pratfalling and character comedy, there could be serious intent, too. This 1969 story, co-writer Jimmy Perry’s favourite, is a potent example.
Mainwaring is appalled to learn that Private Godfrey was a “conchie” in the First World War, and the captain’s wrath merely inspires the other men to shun him. The way in which Godfrey is restored in his friends’ eyes — putting actor Arnold Ridley, himself an unrecognised war hero, in the spotlight — is restrained and poignant. https://www.radiotimes.com/programme/b-bdhb8z/dads-army-season-3/?episode=b-byk4ru
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
From the Independent’s ‘View from Westminster’ email
Keir wins India trade deal – and that is a bad thing?
The prime minister has secured a trade deal with India that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak tried to deliver but could not. So the Conservatives are attacking it with extra brio.
Kemi Badenoch has denounced the national insurance contributions exemption for temporary workers as “two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir”, saying that she refused to agree to it when she was trade secretary.
As far as I can tell, that part of the deal is a normal double-taxation agreement, so that Indians working here temporarily but paying social security contributions in India would not be charged twice, with the same applying in reverse to British temporary workers in India.
But the terms will be exploited ruthlessly by the Tories and Reform, given the salience of immigration at the moment. Keir Starmer’s triumph has been muffled by the failure to prepare the ground for the tricky details.
Written by John Rentoul
That's the dilemma.
It's probably a pretty reasonable arrangement. We're talking about contractors coming over from India for fixed terms, and still paying the Indian equivalent of NI in India. Plus (I think) the NHS surcharge while they're here, and they're not building up any entitlement to a UK pension.
But it took me three lines to summarise that, which is always less exciting than "Undercutting our workers" sounds. Which, like certain other memes here, is at best an incomplete summary. At worst, it's technically true but totally dishonest.
And if the threshold for a government is to only do things that can't be mashed into a dishonest summary, we might as well all give up now.
Does anybody here actually know whether the new ‘online triage’ offered/forced on patients at my local GP count toward the ‘millions of extra appointments’ Labour are talking about securing? @foxy ?
Interesting you mention it, I can only get phone appointments for my GP via the rNHS app now. I used to be able to get physical appointments, I have a painful thumb base. Probably arthritic. Wanted a physical appointment. Got a phone one.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
From the Independent’s ‘View from Westminster’ email
Keir wins India trade deal – and that is a bad thing?
The prime minister has secured a trade deal with India that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak tried to deliver but could not. So the Conservatives are attacking it with extra brio.
Kemi Badenoch has denounced the national insurance contributions exemption for temporary workers as “two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir”, saying that she refused to agree to it when she was trade secretary.
As far as I can tell, that part of the deal is a normal double-taxation agreement, so that Indians working here temporarily but paying social security contributions in India would not be charged twice, with the same applying in reverse to British temporary workers in India.
But the terms will be exploited ruthlessly by the Tories and Reform, given the salience of immigration at the moment. Keir Starmer’s triumph has been muffled by the failure to prepare the ground for the tricky details.
Written by John Rentoul
That's the dilemma.
It's probably a pretty reasonable arrangement. We're talking about contractors coming over from India for fixed terms, and still paying the Indian equivalent of NI in India. Plus (I think) the NHS surcharge while they're here, and they're not building up any entitlement to a UK pension.
But it took me three lines to summarise that, which is always less exciting than "Undercutting our workers" sounds. Which, like certain other memes here, is at best an incomplete summary. At worst, it's technically true but totally dishonest.
And if the threshold for a government is to only do things that can't be mashed into a dishonest summary, we might as well all give up now.
NARRATOR: Hardly anyone pays the equivalent of Income Tax in India.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Tories campaigning for Refuk again. Bizarre party political harikiri.
Who was the Supreme Allied Commander who oversaw D day and victory in Europe?
A. General Dwight Eisenhower B. Sir Winston Churchill C. Captain George Mainwaring D. General Bernard Montgomery
Popular and actual answers to follow.
All of the above.
A) Military commander B Politician who insisted on more divisions. C) Organised the lynch pin of rear area defence D) Kept Eisenhower on his toes by wanting his job so obviously.
The episode of Dad's Army on right now is where Godfrey's courage is called into question.
Amid the pratfalling and character comedy, there could be serious intent, too. This 1969 story, co-writer Jimmy Perry’s favourite, is a potent example.
Mainwaring is appalled to learn that Private Godfrey was a “conchie” in the First World War, and the captain’s wrath merely inspires the other men to shun him. The way in which Godfrey is restored in his friends’ eyes — putting actor Arnold Ridley, himself an unrecognised war hero, in the spotlight — is restrained and poignant. https://www.radiotimes.com/programme/b-bdhb8z/dads-army-season-3/?episode=b-byk4ru
I think that is the only episode of Dads Army that ever stuck with me. Really quite moving.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
From the Independent’s ‘View from Westminster’ email
Keir wins India trade deal – and that is a bad thing?
The prime minister has secured a trade deal with India that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak tried to deliver but could not. So the Conservatives are attacking it with extra brio.
Kemi Badenoch has denounced the national insurance contributions exemption for temporary workers as “two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir”, saying that she refused to agree to it when she was trade secretary.
As far as I can tell, that part of the deal is a normal double-taxation agreement, so that Indians working here temporarily but paying social security contributions in India would not be charged twice, with the same applying in reverse to British temporary workers in India.
But the terms will be exploited ruthlessly by the Tories and Reform, given the salience of immigration at the moment. Keir Starmer’s triumph has been muffled by the failure to prepare the ground for the tricky details.
Written by John Rentoul
That's the dilemma.
It's probably a pretty reasonable arrangement. We're talking about contractors coming over from India for fixed terms, and still paying the Indian equivalent of NI in India. Plus (I think) the NHS surcharge while they're here, and they're not building up any entitlement to a UK pension.
But it took me three lines to summarise that, which is always less exciting than "Undercutting our workers" sounds. Which, like certain other memes here, is at best an incomplete summary. At worst, it's technically true but totally dishonest.
And if the threshold for a government is to only do things that can't be mashed into a dishonest summary, we might as well all give up now.
Yes, reminds me of Starmer predicting the collapse of the NHS in the summer of chaos that didn’t happen in 2021 on the back of ‘The Johnson Variant’ of Covid
Does anybody here actually know whether the new ‘online triage’ offered/forced on patients at my local GP count toward the ‘millions of extra appointments’ Labour are talking about securing? @foxy ?
Interesting you mention it, I can only get phone appointments for my GP via the rNHS app now. I used to be able to get physical appointments, I have a painful thumb base. Probably arthritic. Wanted a physical appointment. Got a phone one.
My GPs have stopped allowing NHS app appointments at all.
I never phone them. I wander in there and bother the receptionist in person. Actually easier, and perhaps more successful.
Who was the Supreme Allied Commander who oversaw D day and victory in Europe?
A. General Dwight Eisenhower B. Sir Winston Churchill C. Captain George Mainwaring D. General Bernard Montgomery
Popular and actual answers to follow.
All of the above.
A) Military commander B Politician who insisted on more divisions. C) Organised the lynch pin of rear area defence D) Kept Eisenhower on his toes by wanting his job so obviously.
The episode of Dad's Army on right now is where Godfrey's courage is called into question.
Amid the pratfalling and character comedy, there could be serious intent, too. This 1969 story, co-writer Jimmy Perry’s favourite, is a potent example.
Mainwaring is appalled to learn that Private Godfrey was a “conchie” in the First World War, and the captain’s wrath merely inspires the other men to shun him. The way in which Godfrey is restored in his friends’ eyes — putting actor Arnold Ridley, himself an unrecognised war hero, in the spotlight — is restrained and poignant. https://www.radiotimes.com/programme/b-bdhb8z/dads-army-season-3/?episode=b-byk4ru
I think that is the only episode of Dads Army that ever stuck with me. Really quite moving.
Who was the Supreme Allied Commander who oversaw D day and victory in Europe?
A. General Dwight Eisenhower B. Sir Winston Churchill C. Captain George Mainwaring D. General Bernard Montgomery
Popular and actual answers to follow.
All of the above.
A) Military commander B Politician who insisted on more divisions. C) Organised the lynch pin of rear area defence D) Kept Eisenhower on his toes by wanting his job so obviously.
The episode of Dad's Army on right now is where Godfrey's courage is called into question.
Amid the pratfalling and character comedy, there could be serious intent, too. This 1969 story, co-writer Jimmy Perry’s favourite, is a potent example.
Mainwaring is appalled to learn that Private Godfrey was a “conchie” in the First World War, and the captain’s wrath merely inspires the other men to shun him. The way in which Godfrey is restored in his friends’ eyes — putting actor Arnold Ridley, himself an unrecognised war hero, in the spotlight — is restrained and poignant. https://www.radiotimes.com/programme/b-bdhb8z/dads-army-season-3/?episode=b-byk4ru
I think that is the only episode of Dads Army that ever stuck with me. Really quite moving.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
Looking at the long term, i.e. generations, it would be a good thing for more immigration from the Indian subcontinent. Compared to white British, they are more hard working, support their older people, and encourage education. There are excellent examples of such people on PB, for example.
Does anybody here actually know whether the new ‘online triage’ offered/forced on patients at my local GP count toward the ‘millions of extra appointments’ Labour are talking about securing? @foxy ?
Interesting you mention it, I can only get phone appointments for my GP via the rNHS app now. I used to be able to get physical appointments, I have a painful thumb base. Probably arthritic. Wanted a physical appointment. Got a phone one.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
What's the lowest GDP per capita of the countries on your list?
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
What's the lowest GDP per capita of the countries on your list?
There is a part of me that likes the smaller parties winning. I don't know what a Plaid Senedd would do (compulsory Welsh? 10mph speed limit?) but it would be nice to see them try.
Plaid and the SNP should consider joining Reform in government. They should appoint Farage as Minister for Independence, as he is the only British politician, apart from Johnson, who has successfully gained independence this century.
Looking at the long term, i.e. generations, it would be a good thing for more immigration from the Indian subcontinent. Compared to white British, they are more hard working, support their older people, and encourage education. There are excellent examples of such people on PB, for example.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
What's the lowest GDP per capita of the countries on your list?
Not sure why that’s so important given it’s apparently limited to around 1,800 workers . And companies aren’t free to just ship as many temporary workers as they like .
Looking at the long term, i.e. generations, it would be a good thing for more immigration from the Indian subcontinent. Compared to white British, they are more hard working, support their older people, and encourage education. There are excellent examples of such people on PB, for example.
Testify.
As the grandson of humble immigrants* to the UK from the Indian subcontinent I fit that description.
I have been recently contemplating emigrating though.
*Yes, the humility gene was wiped out within two generations.
There is a part of me that likes the smaller parties winning. I don't know what a Plaid Senedd would do (compulsory Welsh? 10mph speed limit?) but it would be nice to see them try.
Plaid and the SNP should consider joining Reform in government. They should appoint Farage as Minister for Independence, as he is the only British politician, apart from Johnson, who has successfully gained independence this century.
From the EU which they both opposed (and which in Plaid's case Wales also voted for)
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
What's the lowest GDP per capita of the countries on your list?
Not sure why that’s so important given it’s apparently limited to around 1,800 workers . And companies aren’t free to just ship as many temporary workers as they like .
Citation?
We have Farage saying: theoretically unlimited
The Times saying: 100 a year (this I do not believe)
From the Independent’s ‘View from Westminster’ email
Keir wins India trade deal – and that is a bad thing?
The prime minister has secured a trade deal with India that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak tried to deliver but could not. So the Conservatives are attacking it with extra brio.
Kemi Badenoch has denounced the national insurance contributions exemption for temporary workers as “two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir”, saying that she refused to agree to it when she was trade secretary.
As far as I can tell, that part of the deal is a normal double-taxation agreement, so that Indians working here temporarily but paying social security contributions in India would not be charged twice, with the same applying in reverse to British temporary workers in India.
But the terms will be exploited ruthlessly by the Tories and Reform, given the salience of immigration at the moment. Keir Starmer’s triumph has been muffled by the failure to prepare the ground for the tricky details.
Written by John Rentoul
That's the dilemma.
It's probably a pretty reasonable arrangement. We're talking about contractors coming over from India for fixed terms, and still paying the Indian equivalent of NI in India. Plus (I think) the NHS surcharge while they're here, and they're not building up any entitlement to a UK pension.
But it took me three lines to summarise that, which is always less exciting than "Undercutting our workers" sounds. Which, like certain other memes here, is at best an incomplete summary. At worst, it's technically true but totally dishonest.
And if the threshold for a government is to only do things that can't be mashed into a dishonest summary, we might as well all give up now.
If the Conservative party had any sense, they would be taking a more cautious approach on this trade deal. Instead they go full throttle against Labour when it is obvious that the Conservatives have signed this clause in many trade deals, and pretty likely it was included in draft proposals when they were negotiating with India. Labour will point these things out, it won't do them much good, but it is their best defence. The only possible winner from the saga is Reform. Labour will take a hit, as will the Conservatives, but Labour, unlike the Conservatives, have the benefit of waiting and hoping for the economy to improve by election time.
There is a part of me that likes the smaller parties winning. I don't know what a Plaid Senedd would do (compulsory Welsh? 10mph speed limit?) but it would be nice to see them try.
Plaid and the SNP should consider joining Reform in government. They should appoint Farage as Minister for Independence, as he is the only British politician, apart from Johnson, who has successfully gained independence this century.
From the EU which they both opposed (and which in Plaid's case Wales also voted for)
From the Independent’s ‘View from Westminster’ email
Keir wins India trade deal – and that is a bad thing?
The prime minister has secured a trade deal with India that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak tried to deliver but could not. So the Conservatives are attacking it with extra brio.
Kemi Badenoch has denounced the national insurance contributions exemption for temporary workers as “two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir”, saying that she refused to agree to it when she was trade secretary.
As far as I can tell, that part of the deal is a normal double-taxation agreement, so that Indians working here temporarily but paying social security contributions in India would not be charged twice, with the same applying in reverse to British temporary workers in India.
But the terms will be exploited ruthlessly by the Tories and Reform, given the salience of immigration at the moment. Keir Starmer’s triumph has been muffled by the failure to prepare the ground for the tricky details.
Written by John Rentoul
That's the dilemma.
It's probably a pretty reasonable arrangement. We're talking about contractors coming over from India for fixed terms, and still paying the Indian equivalent of NI in India. Plus (I think) the NHS surcharge while they're here, and they're not building up any entitlement to a UK pension.
But it took me three lines to summarise that, which is always less exciting than "Undercutting our workers" sounds. Which, like certain other memes here, is at best an incomplete summary. At worst, it's technically true but totally dishonest.
And if the threshold for a government is to only do things that can't be mashed into a dishonest summary, we might as well all give up now.
If the Conservative party had any sense, they would be taking a more cautious approach on this trade deal. Instead they go full throttle against Labour when it is obvious that the Conservatives have signed this clause in many trade deals, and pretty likely it was included in draft proposals when they were negotiating with India. Labour will point these things out, it won't do them much good, but it is their best defence. The only possible winner from the saga is Reform. Labour will take a hit, as will the Conservatives, but Labour, unlike the Conservatives, have the benefit of waiting and hoping for the economy to improve by election time.
Kemi made quite clear as Trade Secretary she refused to sign this form of deal with India precisely because of this clause
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
What's the lowest GDP per capita of the countries on your list?
Not sure why that’s so important given it’s apparently limited to around 1,800 workers . And companies aren’t free to just ship as many temporary workers as they like .
Citation?
We have Farage saying: theoretically unlimited
The Times saying: 100 a year (this I do not believe)
And now this new random figure of 1800. Whence?
It's quite important to know
Different things. The double contribution stuff is all temporarily transferred workers. The 100 is sui generis work visas. Different categories, different conversations.
It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?
Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain
Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave
This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course
I find your constant ghoulish prophecies of "A Reform Government or something WORSE" quite irritating. What is wrong with a Reform Government? Reform are no more right wing than Major's Tory Government in the early 90's - in many respects the last decent one we had. They're certainly no righter wing than you, so please grow some moral courage and stop these daft 'more in sorrow than in anger' warnings.
From the Independent’s ‘View from Westminster’ email
Keir wins India trade deal – and that is a bad thing?
The prime minister has secured a trade deal with India that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak tried to deliver but could not. So the Conservatives are attacking it with extra brio.
Kemi Badenoch has denounced the national insurance contributions exemption for temporary workers as “two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir”, saying that she refused to agree to it when she was trade secretary.
As far as I can tell, that part of the deal is a normal double-taxation agreement, so that Indians working here temporarily but paying social security contributions in India would not be charged twice, with the same applying in reverse to British temporary workers in India.
But the terms will be exploited ruthlessly by the Tories and Reform, given the salience of immigration at the moment. Keir Starmer’s triumph has been muffled by the failure to prepare the ground for the tricky details.
Written by John Rentoul
That's the dilemma.
It's probably a pretty reasonable arrangement. We're talking about contractors coming over from India for fixed terms, and still paying the Indian equivalent of NI in India. Plus (I think) the NHS surcharge while they're here, and they're not building up any entitlement to a UK pension.
But it took me three lines to summarise that, which is always less exciting than "Undercutting our workers" sounds. Which, like certain other memes here, is at best an incomplete summary. At worst, it's technically true but totally dishonest.
And if the threshold for a government is to only do things that can't be mashed into a dishonest summary, we might as well all give up now.
If the Conservative party had any sense, they would be taking a more cautious approach on this trade deal. Instead they go full throttle against Labour when it is obvious that the Conservatives have signed this clause in many trade deals, and pretty likely it was included in draft proposals when they were negotiating with India. Labour will point these things out, it won't do them much good, but it is their best defence. The only possible winner from the saga is Reform. Labour will take a hit, as will the Conservatives, but Labour, unlike the Conservatives, have the benefit of waiting and hoping for the economy to improve by election time.
Ridiculous. This deal is absurdly bad, at least in perception, if the Tories start saying "oh this might not be so bad" then they look like pathetic weak saps
They have no choice. They have to attack
Maybe they can achieve @williamglenn's dream and the election becomes Tories V Reform. Unlikely, but possible
It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?
Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain
Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave
This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course
I find your constant ghoulish prophecies of "A Reform Government or something WORSE" quite irritating. What is wrong with a Reform Government? Reform are no more right wing than Major's Tory Government in the early 90's - in many respects the last decent one we had. They're certainly no righter wing than you, so please grow some moral courage and stop these daft 'more in sorrow than in anger' warnings.
Uh-oh. Hostilities breaking out between the forum's premier edgelords.
This perfectly encapsulates the problem with Keir Starmer. A couple of weeks ago he was proudly announcing the end of globalisation. This week he's proudly announcing tax cuts that will make it easier for Indian workers to take British jobs. It's utterly irrational politics.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
What's the lowest GDP per capita of the countries on your list?
Not sure why that’s so important given it’s apparently limited to around 1,800 workers . And companies aren’t free to just ship as many temporary workers as they like .
Citation?
We have Farage saying: theoretically unlimited
The Times saying: 100 a year (this I do not believe)
And now this new random figure of 1800. Whence?
It's quite important to know
Different things. The double contribution stuff is all temporarily transferred workers. The 100 is sui generis work visas. Different categories, different conversations.
OK... thankyou. So what is the theoretical maximum number of Indian workers that might benefit from this?
It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?
Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain
Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave
This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course
I find your constant ghoulish prophecies of "A Reform Government or something WORSE" quite irritating. What is wrong with a Reform Government? Reform are no more right wing than Major's Tory Government in the early 90's - in many respects the last decent one we had. They're certainly no righter wing than you, so please grow some moral courage and stop these daft 'more in sorrow than in anger' warnings.
I don't remember Major's government backing leaving the EU let alone the ECHR. Nor considering replacing the NHS with an insurance based healthcare system nor promising the level of cuts Reform want.
There is an ideological case for Reform but Farage is certainly right of where Major was and not forgetting that Major hates Trump and Farage loves him
From the Independent’s ‘View from Westminster’ email
Keir wins India trade deal – and that is a bad thing?
The prime minister has secured a trade deal with India that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak tried to deliver but could not. So the Conservatives are attacking it with extra brio.
Kemi Badenoch has denounced the national insurance contributions exemption for temporary workers as “two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir”, saying that she refused to agree to it when she was trade secretary.
As far as I can tell, that part of the deal is a normal double-taxation agreement, so that Indians working here temporarily but paying social security contributions in India would not be charged twice, with the same applying in reverse to British temporary workers in India.
But the terms will be exploited ruthlessly by the Tories and Reform, given the salience of immigration at the moment. Keir Starmer’s triumph has been muffled by the failure to prepare the ground for the tricky details.
Written by John Rentoul
That's the dilemma.
It's probably a pretty reasonable arrangement. We're talking about contractors coming over from India for fixed terms, and still paying the Indian equivalent of NI in India. Plus (I think) the NHS surcharge while they're here, and they're not building up any entitlement to a UK pension.
But it took me three lines to summarise that, which is always less exciting than "Undercutting our workers" sounds. Which, like certain other memes here, is at best an incomplete summary. At worst, it's technically true but totally dishonest.
And if the threshold for a government is to only do things that can't be mashed into a dishonest summary, we might as well all give up now.
If the Conservative party had any sense, they would be taking a more cautious approach on this trade deal. Instead they go full throttle against Labour when it is obvious that the Conservatives have signed this clause in many trade deals, and pretty likely it was included in draft proposals when they were negotiating with India. Labour will point these things out, it won't do them much good, but it is their best defence. The only possible winner from the saga is Reform. Labour will take a hit, as will the Conservatives, but Labour, unlike the Conservatives, have the benefit of waiting and hoping for the economy to improve by election time.
Ridiculous. This deal is absurdly bad, at least in perception, if the Tories start saying "oh this might not be so bad" then they look like pathetic weak saps
They have no choice. They have to attack
Maybe they can achieve @williamglenn's dream and the election becomes Tories V Reform. Unlikely, but possible
And Labour will say, the Tories did the same.
How can the Tories possibly benefit? All the benefit goes to Reform.
Right now, the Conservatives need to hurt Reform not Labour.
Looking at the long term, i.e. generations, it would be a good thing for more immigration from the Indian subcontinent. Compared to white British, they are more hard working, support their older people, and encourage education. There are excellent examples of such people on PB, for example.
RACIST!
All you need is the pith helmet, the gin & tonic and a stick to thrash the beastly natives with….
From the Independent’s ‘View from Westminster’ email
Keir wins India trade deal – and that is a bad thing?
The prime minister has secured a trade deal with India that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak tried to deliver but could not. So the Conservatives are attacking it with extra brio.
Kemi Badenoch has denounced the national insurance contributions exemption for temporary workers as “two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir”, saying that she refused to agree to it when she was trade secretary.
As far as I can tell, that part of the deal is a normal double-taxation agreement, so that Indians working here temporarily but paying social security contributions in India would not be charged twice, with the same applying in reverse to British temporary workers in India.
But the terms will be exploited ruthlessly by the Tories and Reform, given the salience of immigration at the moment. Keir Starmer’s triumph has been muffled by the failure to prepare the ground for the tricky details.
Written by John Rentoul
That's the dilemma.
It's probably a pretty reasonable arrangement. We're talking about contractors coming over from India for fixed terms, and still paying the Indian equivalent of NI in India. Plus (I think) the NHS surcharge while they're here, and they're not building up any entitlement to a UK pension.
But it took me three lines to summarise that, which is always less exciting than "Undercutting our workers" sounds. Which, like certain other memes here, is at best an incomplete summary. At worst, it's technically true but totally dishonest.
And if the threshold for a government is to only do things that can't be mashed into a dishonest summary, we might as well all give up now.
If the Conservative party had any sense, they would be taking a more cautious approach on this trade deal. Instead they go full throttle against Labour when it is obvious that the Conservatives have signed this clause in many trade deals, and pretty likely it was included in draft proposals when they were negotiating with India. Labour will point these things out, it won't do them much good, but it is their best defence. The only possible winner from the saga is Reform. Labour will take a hit, as will the Conservatives, but Labour, unlike the Conservatives, have the benefit of waiting and hoping for the economy to improve by election time.
Ridiculous. This deal is absurdly bad, at least in perception, if the Tories start saying "oh this might not be so bad" then they look like pathetic weak saps
They have no choice. They have to attack
Maybe they can achieve @williamglenn's dream and the election becomes Tories V Reform. Unlikely, but possible
And Labour will say, the Tories did the same.
How can the Tories possibly benefit? All the benefit goes to Reform.
Right now, the Conservatives need to hurt Reform not Labour.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the actual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad
Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
What concerns me more is employer national insurance. If UK employers don't have to pay their (increased) national insurance contributions on temporary Indian workers, but they do for UK ones, that places UK workers at a big disadvantage.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
What's the lowest GDP per capita of the countries on your list?
Not sure why that’s so important given it’s apparently limited to around 1,800 workers . And companies aren’t free to just ship as many temporary workers as they like .
Citation?
We have Farage saying: theoretically unlimited
The Times saying: 100 a year (this I do not believe)
And now this new random figure of 1800. Whence?
It's quite important to know
Different things. The double contribution stuff is all temporarily transferred workers. The 100 is sui generis work visas. Different categories, different conversations.
OK... thankyou. So what is the theoretical maximum number of Indian workers that might benefit from this?
The double contribution? 1.438 billion, pending a relaxation of our child labour laws.
The 100 stuff? Whatever the real number is in the deal. We don't know yet.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the actual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad
Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
What concerns me more is employer national insurance. If UK employers don't have to pay their (increased) national insurance contributions on temporary Indian workers, but they do for UK ones, that places UK workers at a big disadvantage.
I'm pretty sure that is exactly the case, hence the furore. The queries surround the potential numbers, the actual gains for employers etc
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
What's the lowest GDP per capita of the countries on your list?
Not sure why that’s so important given it’s apparently limited to around 1,800 workers . And companies aren’t free to just ship as many temporary workers as they like .
Citation?
We have Farage saying: theoretically unlimited
The Times saying: 100 a year (this I do not believe)
And now this new random figure of 1800. Whence?
It's quite important to know
1800 was Alexander's figure talking to Sophie Ridge on Sky
It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?
Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain
Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave
This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course
I find your constant ghoulish prophecies of "A Reform Government or something WORSE" quite irritating. What is wrong with a Reform Government? Reform are no more right wing than Major's Tory Government in the early 90's - in many respects the last decent one we had. They're certainly no righter wing than you, so please grow some moral courage and stop these daft 'more in sorrow than in anger' warnings.
I don't remember Major's government backing leaving the EU let alone the ECHR. Nor considering replacing the NHS with an insurance based healthcare system nor promising the level of cuts Reform want.
There is an ideological case for Reform but Farage is certainly right of where Major was and not forgetting that Major hates Trump and Farage loves him
This is just a word salad.
Neither the ECHR nor the EU were the same organisations that they later became in Major's time.
Nor can you compare Major's rent-a-euroloon views now to the (mostly fairly sensible) actions of his Government then.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Yes indeed
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the aictual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad n Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Wait until Leon learns there are several tiers of taxation on say income tax, ditto NI.
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
Come on, you can do better than this
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Looking at my work system, there's around 17 countries who enjoy this benefit, a lot of these deals were signed by the Tories, including the government of which Kemi Badenoch was a member of.
What's the lowest GDP per capita of the countries on your list?
Not sure why that’s so important given it’s apparently limited to around 1,800 workers . And companies aren’t free to just ship as many temporary workers as they like .
Citation?
We have Farage saying: theoretically unlimited
The Times saying: 100 a year (this I do not believe)
And now this new random figure of 1800. Whence?
It's quite important to know
1800 was Alexander's figure talking to Sophie Ridge on Sky
Yes, but is this a guess - like Blair's 13,000 from the Accession Countries (disastrously wrong) - or is it a legal ceiling? I am sensing it is a guess. But I am happy to be corrected
Looking at the long term, i.e. generations, it would be a good thing for more immigration from the Indian subcontinent. Compared to white British, they are more hard working, support their older people, and encourage education. There are excellent examples of such people on PB, for example.
RACIST!
All you need is the pith helmet, the gin & tonic and a stick to thrash the beastly natives with….
I am sure that we have a PB contributor who is suitably equipped and motivated.
It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?
Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain
Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave
This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course
I find your constant ghoulish prophecies of "A Reform Government or something WORSE" quite irritating. What is wrong with a Reform Government? Reform are no more right wing than Major's Tory Government in the early 90's - in many respects the last decent one we had. They're certainly no righter wing than you, so please grow some moral courage and stop these daft 'more in sorrow than in anger' warnings.
Uh-oh. Hostilities breaking out between the forum's premier edgelords.
Leon and I disagree all the time. That's what happens when you have a personality - give it a try some time.
Looking at the long term, i.e. generations, it would be a good thing for more immigration from the Indian subcontinent. Compared to white British, they are more hard working, support their older people, and encourage education. There are excellent examples of such people on PB, for example.
Testify.
As the grandson of humble immigrants* to the UK from the Indian subcontinent I fit that description.
I have been recently contemplating emigrating though.
*Yes, the humility gene was wiped out within two generations.
I worked for a company that development units around the world, developing the same code base.
They conducted a study of cost per feature delivered. Actual results, not lines of code
London was the cheapest Eastern Europe was just behind Canada was next
India was dead last, by a long way. The reasons are pretty obvious if you saw the conditions.
It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?
Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain
Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave
This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course
I find your constant ghoulish prophecies of "A Reform Government or something WORSE" quite irritating. What is wrong with a Reform Government? Reform are no more right wing than Major's Tory Government in the early 90's - in many respects the last decent one we had. They're certainly no righter wing than you, so please grow some moral courage and stop these daft 'more in sorrow than in anger' warnings.
What is wrong with a Reform government? Well, there are no obviously outstanding candidates for government so that the fact there is lots potentially wrong matters less than it might but it still matters.
Here are three things:
1) Inexperience. Listen to (say) Blair, Mark Carney or Cameron for five minutes and ask whether Reform will have front bench to speak for the UK in the corridors of power. 2) From the 2024 effort - 2029 manifesto unknown - their economics is somewhere between meaningless and catastrophic. It is not possible to articulate what they mean about tax, spend, deficit, debt etc. Their figures don't add up. They are not alone in this, but of course their USP is that unlike all the others they are honest and for the people and will get stuff done. 3) They have some unpleasant friends and their leader is in many ways an unsatisfactory team player.
I agree they may well not be right wing, except on migration (if that counts as right wing). They are social democrats really, like everyone else. Their voters will leave them no choice about that.
The reaction to a bog standard social security agreement, that’s good news for British expats, Indian expats, business and both economies is mind boggling.
My firm has a few thousand people in the UK and a few thousand each in various other countries including India. At the moment if one of my team is sent to spend a couple of years in Germany, or Korea, or the Philippines or various other places they only pay NI once, here in Britain. But if they go to India they currently pay it both here and in India. We send several dozen people on assignment to our Indian office every year, and they send a similar number here, and the double taxation is a very real cost. The same is true across hundreds of multinationals. Double taxation of posted workers is unfair, and economically stupid. It hits British workers going abroad just as much as vice versa.
Remember our employee and - particularly - employer NI is much lower than most other large economies and in general UK employers posting Brits abroad benefit much more than vice versa.
The Tories are utterly hypocritical and shameless on this. At least Reform don’t pretend to want to encourage Indian business or entrepreneurs. But in one breath Kemi and Co are moaning that repealing the non dom rules mean poor old rich Indians will leave the country because they have to pay more tax, in the next they are claiming that having people pay tax only once on the same income is two tier tax. And then in the third breath they’re on their second handbrake turn and objecting to inheritance tax on the principle that you shouldn’t be taxed twice on the same income.
Who was the Supreme Allied Commander who oversaw D day and victory in Europe?
A. General Dwight Eisenhower B. Sir Winston Churchill C. Captain George Mainwaring D. General Bernard Montgomery
Popular and actual answers to follow.
All of the above.
A) Military commander B Politician who insisted on more divisions. C) Organised the lynch pin of rear area defence D) Kept Eisenhower on his toes by wanting his job so obviously.
The episode of Dad's Army on right now is where Godfrey's courage is called into question.
Amid the pratfalling and character comedy, there could be serious intent, too. This 1969 story, co-writer Jimmy Perry’s favourite, is a potent example.
Mainwaring is appalled to learn that Private Godfrey was a “conchie” in the First World War, and the captain’s wrath merely inspires the other men to shun him. The way in which Godfrey is restored in his friends’ eyes — putting actor Arnold Ridley, himself an unrecognised war hero, in the spotlight — is restrained and poignant. https://www.radiotimes.com/programme/b-bdhb8z/dads-army-season-3/?episode=b-byk4ru
I think that is the only episode of Dads Army that ever stuck with me. Really quite moving.
For Zat, You Go On Zee Liiiist!
I liked the one where Mainwaring was hanging off a barrage balloon infront of a primitive green screen effect. I howled.
The reaction to a bog standard social security agreement, that’s good news for British expats, Indian expats, business and both economies is mind boggling.
My firm has a few thousand people in the UK and a few thousand each in various other countries including India. At the moment of one of my team is sent to spend a couple of years in Germany, or Korea, or the Philippines or various other places they only pay NI once, here in Britain. But if they go to India they currently pay it here and in India. We send several dozen people on assignment to our Indian office every year, and they send a similar number here, and the double taxation is a very real cost. The same is true across hundreds of multinationals. Double taxation of posted workers is unfair, and economically stupid. It hits British workers going abroad just as much as vice versa.
The Tories are utterly hypocritical and shameless on this. At least Reform don’t pretend to want to encourage Indian business or entrepreneurs. But in one breath Kemi and Co are moaning that repealing the non dom rules mean poor old rich Indians will leave the country because they have to pay more tax, in the next they are claiming that having people pay tax only once on the same income is two tier tax. And then in the third breath they’re on their second handbrake turn and objecting to inheritance tax on the principle that you shouldn’t be taxed twice on the same income.
The Lib Dem’s will vote against it. Presumably they don’t want to encourage Indian businesses and Entrepreneurs too.
The reaction to a bog standard social security agreement, that’s good news for British expats, Indian expats, business and both economies is mind boggling.
My firm has a few thousand people in the UK and a few thousand each in various other countries including India. At the moment of one of my team is sent to spend a couple of years in Germany, or Korea, or the Philippines or various other places they only pay NI once, here in Britain. But if they go to India they currently pay it here and in India. We send several dozen people on assignment to our Indian office every year, and they send a similar number here, and the double taxation is a very real cost. The same is true across hundreds of multinationals. Double taxation of posted workers is unfair, and economically stupid. It hits British workers going abroad just as much as vice versa.
The Tories are utterly hypocritical and shameless on this. At least Reform don’t pretend to want to encourage Indian business or entrepreneurs. But in one breath Kemi and Co are moaning that repealing the non dom rules mean poor old rich Indians will leave the country because they have to pay more tax, in the next they are claiming that having people pay tax only once on the same income is two tier tax. And then in the third breath they’re on their second handbrake turn and objecting to inheritance tax on the principle that you shouldn’t be taxed twice on the same income.
The numbers of Indians that come are uncapped. Two Tier Taxes, and uncapped. We CAN cap them, but who trusts a British government to cap them, after the Boriswave?
Whatever tedious wank you churn out, this is a politically catastrophic move by Labour, and the Tories are right to pile on. And as for hypocrisy, give me a break, your party - the Liberal DEMOCRATS - wanted to simply REVOKE the Brexit referendum
It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?
Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain
Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave
This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course
I find your constant ghoulish prophecies of "A Reform Government or something WORSE" quite irritating. What is wrong with a Reform Government? Reform are no more right wing than Major's Tory Government in the early 90's - in many respects the last decent one we had. They're certainly no righter wing than you, so please grow some moral courage and stop these daft 'more in sorrow than in anger' warnings.
What is wrong with a Reform government? Well, there are no obviously outstanding candidates for government so that the fact there is lots potentially wrong matters less than it might but it still matters.
Here are three things:
1) Inexperience. Listen to (say) Blair, Mark Carney or Cameron for five minutes and ask whether Reform will have front bench to speak for the UK in the corridors of power. 2) From the 2024 effort - 2029 manifesto unknown - their economics is somewhere between meaningless and catastrophic. It is not possible to articulate what they mean about tax, spend, deficit, debt etc. Their figures don't add up. They are not alone in this, but of course their USP is that unlike all the others they are honest and for the people and will get stuff done. 3) They have some unpleasant friends and their leader is in many ways an unsatisfactory team player.
I agree they may well not be right wing, except on migration (if that counts as right wing). They are social democrats really, like everyone else. Their voters will leave them no choice about that.
That is all true, but it is also true of Conservatives and some of it, to an extent Labour too.
The reaction to a bog standard social security agreement, that’s good news for British expats, Indian expats, business and both economies is mind boggling.
My firm has a few thousand people in the UK and a few thousand each in various other countries including India. At the moment of one of my team is sent to spend a couple of years in Germany, or Korea, or the Philippines or various other places they only pay NI once, here in Britain. But if they go to India they currently pay it here and in India. We send several dozen people on assignment to our Indian office every year, and they send a similar number here, and the double taxation is a very real cost. The same is true across hundreds of multinationals. Double taxation of posted workers is unfair, and economically stupid. It hits British workers going abroad just as much as vice versa.
The Tories are utterly hypocritical and shameless on this. At least Reform don’t pretend to want to encourage Indian business or entrepreneurs. But in one breath Kemi and Co are moaning that repealing the non dom rules mean poor old rich Indians will leave the country because they have to pay more tax, in the next they are claiming that having people pay tax only once on the same income is two tier tax. And then in the third breath they’re on their second handbrake turn and objecting to inheritance tax on the principle that you shouldn’t be taxed twice on the same income.
The Lib Dem’s will vote against it. Presumably they don’t want to encourage Indian businesses and Entrepreneurs too.
The Lib Dems don’t like it because it’s a post-Brexit trade deal and they think we should focus on the EU. They are wrong on this one, it’s a decent deal - better than I expected.
Who was the Supreme Allied Commander who oversaw D day and victory in Europe?
A. General Dwight Eisenhower B. Sir Winston Churchill C. Captain George Mainwaring D. General Bernard Montgomery
Popular and actual answers to follow.
All of the above.
A) Military commander B Politician who insisted on more divisions. C) Organised the lynch pin of rear area defence D) Kept Eisenhower on his toes by wanting his job so obviously.
The episode of Dad's Army on right now is where Godfrey's courage is called into question.
Amid the pratfalling and character comedy, there could be serious intent, too. This 1969 story, co-writer Jimmy Perry’s favourite, is a potent example.
Mainwaring is appalled to learn that Private Godfrey was a “conchie” in the First World War, and the captain’s wrath merely inspires the other men to shun him. The way in which Godfrey is restored in his friends’ eyes — putting actor Arnold Ridley, himself an unrecognised war hero, in the spotlight — is restrained and poignant. https://www.radiotimes.com/programme/b-bdhb8z/dads-army-season-3/?episode=b-byk4ru
I think that is the only episode of Dads Army that ever stuck with me. Really quite moving.
For Zat, You Go On Zee Liiiist!
I liked the one where Mainwaring was hanging off a barrage balloon infront of a primitive green screen effect. I howled.
Yes, the title being, rather aptly, The Day the Balloon Went Up.
Back then it was called CSO. Often used in Dr Who.
The reaction to a bog standard social security agreement, that’s good news for British expats, Indian expats, business and both economies is mind boggling.
My firm has a few thousand people in the UK and a few thousand each in various other countries including India. At the moment of one of my team is sent to spend a couple of years in Germany, or Korea, or the Philippines or various other places they only pay NI once, here in Britain. But if they go to India they currently pay it here and in India. We send several dozen people on assignment to our Indian office every year, and they send a similar number here, and the double taxation is a very real cost. The same is true across hundreds of multinationals. Double taxation of posted workers is unfair, and economically stupid. It hits British workers going abroad just as much as vice versa.
The Tories are utterly hypocritical and shameless on this. At least Reform don’t pretend to want to encourage Indian business or entrepreneurs. But in one breath Kemi and Co are moaning that repealing the non dom rules mean poor old rich Indians will leave the country because they have to pay more tax, in the next they are claiming that having people pay tax only once on the same income is two tier tax. And then in the third breath they’re on their second handbrake turn and objecting to inheritance tax on the principle that you shouldn’t be taxed twice on the same income.
The Lib Dem’s will vote against it. Presumably they don’t want to encourage Indian businesses and Entrepreneurs too.
The Lib Dems don’t like it because it’s a post-Brexit trade deal and they think we should focus on the EU. They are wrong on this one, it’s a decent deal - better than I expected.
The reaction to a bog standard social security agreement, that’s good news for British expats, Indian expats, business and both economies is mind boggling.
My firm has a few thousand people in the UK and a few thousand each in various other countries including India. At the moment of one of my team is sent to spend a couple of years in Germany, or Korea, or the Philippines or various other places they only pay NI once, here in Britain. But if they go to India they currently pay it here and in India. We send several dozen people on assignment to our Indian office every year, and they send a similar number here, and the double taxation is a very real cost. The same is true across hundreds of multinationals. Double taxation of posted workers is unfair, and economically stupid. It hits British workers going abroad just as much as vice versa.
The Tories are utterly hypocritical and shameless on this. At least Reform don’t pretend to want to encourage Indian business or entrepreneurs. But in one breath Kemi and Co are moaning that repealing the non dom rules mean poor old rich Indians will leave the country because they have to pay more tax, in the next they are claiming that having people pay tax only once on the same income is two tier tax. And then in the third breath they’re on their second handbrake turn and objecting to inheritance tax on the principle that you shouldn’t be taxed twice on the same income.
The numbers of Indians that come are uncapped. Two Tier Taxes, and uncapped. We CAN cap them, but who trusts a British government to cap them, after the Boriswave?
Whatever tedious wank you churn out, this is a politically catastrophic move by Labour, and the Tories are right to pile on. And as for hyprocrisy, give me a break, your party - the Liberal DEMOCRATS - wanted to simply REVOKE the Brexit referendum
Having revoke in a manifesto might be offensive or bad policy, though given it was in a manifesto up for a vote (and they lost) in a democratic election I don’t see why, but it’s not hypocrisy.
As to the rest of the tedious wank, it’s just facts, that’s all.
The reaction to a bog standard social security agreement, that’s good news for British expats, Indian expats, business and both economies is mind boggling.
My firm has a few thousand people in the UK and a few thousand each in various other countries including India. At the moment of one of my team is sent to spend a couple of years in Germany, or Korea, or the Philippines or various other places they only pay NI once, here in Britain. But if they go to India they currently pay it here and in India. We send several dozen people on assignment to our Indian office every year, and they send a similar number here, and the double taxation is a very real cost. The same is true across hundreds of multinationals. Double taxation of posted workers is unfair, and economically stupid. It hits British workers going abroad just as much as vice versa.
The Tories are utterly hypocritical and shameless on this. At least Reform don’t pretend to want to encourage Indian business or entrepreneurs. But in one breath Kemi and Co are moaning that repealing the non dom rules mean poor old rich Indians will leave the country because they have to pay more tax, in the next they are claiming that having people pay tax only once on the same income is two tier tax. And then in the third breath they’re on their second handbrake turn and objecting to inheritance tax on the principle that you shouldn’t be taxed twice on the same income.
The numbers of Indians that come are uncapped. Two Tier Taxes, and uncapped. We CAN cap them, but who trusts a British government to cap them, after the Boriswave?
Whatever tedious wank you churn out, this is a politically catastrophic move by Labour, and the Tories are right to pile on. And as for hyprocrisy, give me a break, your party - the Liberal DEMOCRATS - wanted to simply REVOKE the Brexit referendum
Having revoke in a manifesto might be offensive or bad policy, though given it was in a manifesto up for a vote (and they lost) in a democratic election I don’t see why, but it’s not hypocrisy.
As to the rest of the tedious wank, it’s just facts, that’s all.
From the Independent’s ‘View from Westminster’ email
Keir wins India trade deal – and that is a bad thing?
The prime minister has secured a trade deal with India that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak tried to deliver but could not. So the Conservatives are attacking it with extra brio.
Kemi Badenoch has denounced the national insurance contributions exemption for temporary workers as “two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir”, saying that she refused to agree to it when she was trade secretary.
As far as I can tell, that part of the deal is a normal double-taxation agreement, so that Indians working here temporarily but paying social security contributions in India would not be charged twice, with the same applying in reverse to British temporary workers in India.
But the terms will be exploited ruthlessly by the Tories and Reform, given the salience of immigration at the moment. Keir Starmer’s triumph has been muffled by the failure to prepare the ground for the tricky details.
Written by John Rentoul
That's the dilemma.
It's probably a pretty reasonable arrangement. We're talking about contractors coming over from India for fixed terms, and still paying the Indian equivalent of NI in India. Plus (I think) the NHS surcharge while they're here, and they're not building up any entitlement to a UK pension.
But it took me three lines to summarise that, which is always less exciting than "Undercutting our workers" sounds. Which, like certain other memes here, is at best an incomplete summary. At worst, it's technically true but totally dishonest.
And if the threshold for a government is to only do things that can't be mashed into a dishonest summary, we might as well all give up now.
If the Conservative party had any sense, they would be taking a more cautious approach on this trade deal. Instead they go full throttle against Labour when it is obvious that the Conservatives have signed this clause in many trade deals, and pretty likely it was included in draft proposals when they were negotiating with India. Labour will point these things out, it won't do them much good, but it is their best defence. The only possible winner from the saga is Reform. Labour will take a hit, as will the Conservatives, but Labour, unlike the Conservatives, have the benefit of waiting and hoping for the economy to improve by election time.
Ridiculous. This deal is absurdly bad, at least in perception, if the Tories start saying "oh this might not be so bad" then they look like pathetic weak saps
They have no choice. They have to attack
Maybe they can achieve @williamglenn's dream and the election becomes Tories V Reform. Unlikely, but possible
And Labour will say, the Tories did the same.
How can the Tories possibly benefit? All the benefit goes to Reform.
Right now, the Conservatives need to hurt Reform not Labour.
Moronic
Explain how this helps the Conservatives and not Reform? The polling momentum will continue to shift to them and against the Tories.
What a class act Mark Carney was today. Quite moving.
"Governor" Carney
I really have no idea why people rate the bucket shop Clooney. He got filleted by Jacob Rees Mogg before a Commons Committee and was made to look like an emotional 13 year old. Appointed as a 'face' at the BOE and proved useless and regrettable. Elected as a 'face' in Canada and will prove just as useless and regrettable there.
The reaction to a bog standard social security agreement, that’s good news for British expats, Indian expats, business and both economies is mind boggling.
My firm has a few thousand people in the UK and a few thousand each in various other countries including India. At the moment of one of my team is sent to spend a couple of years in Germany, or Korea, or the Philippines or various other places they only pay NI once, here in Britain. But if they go to India they currently pay it here and in India. We send several dozen people on assignment to our Indian office every year, and they send a similar number here, and the double taxation is a very real cost. The same is true across hundreds of multinationals. Double taxation of posted workers is unfair, and economically stupid. It hits British workers going abroad just as much as vice versa.
The Tories are utterly hypocritical and shameless on this. At least Reform don’t pretend to want to encourage Indian business or entrepreneurs. But in one breath Kemi and Co are moaning that repealing the non dom rules mean poor old rich Indians will leave the country because they have to pay more tax, in the next they are claiming that having people pay tax only once on the same income is two tier tax. And then in the third breath they’re on their second handbrake turn and objecting to inheritance tax on the principle that you shouldn’t be taxed twice on the same income.
The numbers of Indians that come are uncapped. Two Tier Taxes, and uncapped. We CAN cap them, but who trusts a British government to cap them, after the Boriswave?
Whatever tedious wank you churn out, this is a politically catastrophic move by Labour, and the Tories are right to pile on. And as for hyprocrisy, give me a break, your party - the Liberal DEMOCRATS - wanted to simply REVOKE the Brexit referendum
Having revoke in a manifesto might be offensive or bad policy, though given it was in a manifesto up for a vote (and they lost) in a democratic election I don’t see why, but it’s not hypocrisy.
As to the rest of the tedious wank, it’s just facts, that’s all.
What a class act Mark Carney was today. Quite moving.
"Governor" Carney
I really have no idea why people rate the bucket shop Clooney. He got filleted by Jacob Rees Mogg before a Commons Committee and was made to look like an emotional 13 year old. Appointed as a 'face' at the BOE and proved useless and regrettable. Elected as a 'face' in Canada and will prove just as useless and regrettable there.
The reaction to a bog standard social security agreement, that’s good news for British expats, Indian expats, business and both economies is mind boggling.
My firm has a few thousand people in the UK and a few thousand each in various other countries including India. At the moment of one of my team is sent to spend a couple of years in Germany, or Korea, or the Philippines or various other places they only pay NI once, here in Britain. But if they go to India they currently pay it here and in India. We send several dozen people on assignment to our Indian office every year, and they send a similar number here, and the double taxation is a very real cost. The same is true across hundreds of multinationals. Double taxation of posted workers is unfair, and economically stupid. It hits British workers going abroad just as much as vice versa.
The Tories are utterly hypocritical and shameless on this. At least Reform don’t pretend to want to encourage Indian business or entrepreneurs. But in one breath Kemi and Co are moaning that repealing the non dom rules mean poor old rich Indians will leave the country because they have to pay more tax, in the next they are claiming that having people pay tax only once on the same income is two tier tax. And then in the third breath they’re on their second handbrake turn and objecting to inheritance tax on the principle that you shouldn’t be taxed twice on the same income.
The Lib Dem’s will vote against it. Presumably they don’t want to encourage Indian businesses and Entrepreneurs too.
The Lib Dems don’t like it because it’s a post-Brexit trade deal and they think we should focus on the EU. They are wrong on this one, it’s a decent deal - better than I expected.
They’re just opposing for the sake of it.
Yes, there’s probably a bit of that. But at least it’s not a deal they were negotiating on pretty much the same terms only a few months ago in government.
The main principled objection to this would be about Modi and the rule of law, but that’s true of several states were negotiating FTAs with.
The reaction to a bog standard social security agreement, that’s good news for British expats, Indian expats, business and both economies is mind boggling.
My firm has a few thousand people in the UK and a few thousand each in various other countries including India. At the moment of one of my team is sent to spend a couple of years in Germany, or Korea, or the Philippines or various other places they only pay NI once, here in Britain. But if they go to India they currently pay it here and in India. We send several dozen people on assignment to our Indian office every year, and they send a similar number here, and the double taxation is a very real cost. The same is true across hundreds of multinationals. Double taxation of posted workers is unfair, and economically stupid. It hits British workers going abroad just as much as vice versa.
The Tories are utterly hypocritical and shameless on this. At least Reform don’t pretend to want to encourage Indian business or entrepreneurs. But in one breath Kemi and Co are moaning that repealing the non dom rules mean poor old rich Indians will leave the country because they have to pay more tax, in the next they are claiming that having people pay tax only once on the same income is two tier tax. And then in the third breath they’re on their second handbrake turn and objecting to inheritance tax on the principle that you shouldn’t be taxed twice on the same income.
The numbers of Indians that come are uncapped. Two Tier Taxes, and uncapped. We CAN cap them, but who trusts a British government to cap them, after the Boriswave?
Whatever tedious wank you churn out, this is a politically catastrophic move by Labour, and the Tories are right to pile on. And as for hyprocrisy, give me a break, your party - the Liberal DEMOCRATS - wanted to simply REVOKE the Brexit referendum
Having revoke in a manifesto might be offensive or bad policy, though given it was in a manifesto up for a vote (and they lost) in a democratic election I don’t see why, but it’s not hypocrisy.
What a class act Mark Carney was today. Quite moving.
"Governor" Carney
I really have no idea why people rate the bucket shop Clooney. He got filleted by Jacob Rees Mogg before a Commons Committee and was made to look like an emotional 13 year old. Appointed as a 'face' at the BOE and proved useless and regrettable. Elected as a 'face' in Canada and will prove just as useless and regrettable there.
My enemies enemy seems to be the guiding principle.
Comments
Keir wins India trade deal – and that is a bad thing?
The prime minister has secured a trade deal with India that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak tried to deliver but could not. So the Conservatives are attacking it with extra brio.
Kemi Badenoch has denounced the national insurance contributions exemption for temporary workers as “two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir”, saying that she refused to agree to it when she was trade secretary.
As far as I can tell, that part of the deal is a normal double-taxation agreement, so that Indians working here temporarily but paying social security contributions in India would not be charged twice, with the same applying in reverse to British temporary workers in India.
But the terms will be exploited ruthlessly by the Tories and Reform, given the salience of immigration at the moment. Keir Starmer’s triumph has been muffled by the failure to prepare the ground for the tricky details.
Written by John Rentoul
EXCLUSIVE
Rupert Lowe could be charged over alleged threats towards Reform chair Zia Yusuf after the Met passed the case to the CPS
Lowe denies the allegations, says it is “standard practice” for sensitive cases and “looks forward to clearing my name”
https://x.com/DominicPenna/status/1919839297168969878
My Leon-sense tells me this is a terrible moment for Labour, and the Daily Mail commenters are right
Two Tier Taxes? Really????
It's like a slow political seppuku. Even if the entrails of the deal turn out to be OK it is already a PR disaster playing into all the worst perceptions of a "treacherous" "Chagos surrendering" "two tier sentencing" lefty government. And, of course, the actual details might turn out to be genuinely That Bad
Nige inches closer to Number 10
What were they thinking? Again I am boggled
Amid the pratfalling and character comedy, there could be serious intent, too. This 1969 story, co-writer Jimmy Perry’s favourite, is a potent example.
Mainwaring is appalled to learn that Private Godfrey was a “conchie” in the First World War, and the captain’s wrath merely inspires the other men to shun him. The way in which Godfrey is restored in his friends’ eyes — putting actor Arnold Ridley, himself an unrecognised war hero, in the spotlight — is restrained and poignant.
https://www.radiotimes.com/programme/b-bdhb8z/dads-army-season-3/?episode=b-byk4ru
Some of us don't even receive a personal allowance.
It's probably a pretty reasonable arrangement. We're talking about contractors coming over from India for fixed terms, and still paying the Indian equivalent of NI in India. Plus (I think) the NHS surcharge while they're here, and they're not building up any entitlement to a UK pension.
But it took me three lines to summarise that, which is always less exciting than "Undercutting our workers" sounds. Which, like certain other memes here, is at best an incomplete summary. At worst, it's technically true but totally dishonest.
And if the threshold for a government is to only do things that can't be mashed into a dishonest summary, we might as well all give up now.
What are the optics of Two Tier Taxes? It is calamitous for Labour
Really it should be spelled Two Teir, of course.
I never phone them. I wander in there and bother the receptionist in person. Actually easier, and perhaps more successful.
Reform would never have signed these deals.
So a phone appointment may be less than ideal.
https://nyboneandjoint.com/what-is-texting-thumb-and-how-do-you-treat-it/
Reporter: I was watching your face during the meeting.. what was going through your mind when the President talked about erasing the border..
Carney: I’m glad that you couldn’t tell what was going through my mind
Reporter: Oh I could
https://bsky.app/profile/acyn.bsky.social/post/3lojnhp66ok2v
As the grandson of humble immigrants* to the UK from the Indian subcontinent I fit that description.
I have been recently contemplating emigrating though.
*Yes, the humility gene was wiped out within two generations.
We have Farage saying: theoretically unlimited
The Times saying: 100 a year (this I do not believe)
And now this new random figure of 1800. Whence?
It's quite important to know
Truss
Sunak
Starmer
Not much of an uptick in quality, is it?
They have no choice. They have to attack
Maybe they can achieve @williamglenn's dream and the election becomes Tories V Reform. Unlikely, but possible
This perfectly encapsulates the problem with Keir Starmer. A couple of weeks ago he was proudly announcing the end of globalisation. This week he's proudly announcing tax cuts that will make it easier for Indian workers to take British jobs. It's utterly irrational politics.
@AllieRenison
They can’t take British jobs they need to have already been seconded on a temporary not permanent basis
Come on Dan, do some research
We have these deals on social security coordination with plenty of other countries so temporary workers do not pay the same type of tax twice
There is an ideological case for Reform but Farage is certainly right of where Major was and not forgetting that Major hates Trump and Farage loves him
How can the Tories possibly benefit? All the benefit goes to Reform.
Right now, the Conservatives need to hurt Reform not Labour.
The 100 stuff? Whatever the real number is in the deal. We don't know yet.
Neither the ECHR nor the EU were the same organisations that they later became in Major's time.
Nor can you compare Major's rent-a-euroloon views now to the (mostly fairly sensible) actions of his Government then.
If it IS a guess that is apocalyptic for Labour
BREAKING:
Indian missiles start striking Pakistani territory in at least 3 locations.
The Indian attack is now in full swing. Lots of fighter jets in the air.
https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1919848022596255826
In the words of Chris Morris on The Day Today
It’s war !!!
https://x.com/adityarajkaul/status/1919849703912382939?s=61
Twenty eight miles from Saint Gaudens to Saint Girons, to set myself up for another big one tomorrow to Foix
Nothing interesting happened, but I did get a hankering for veal
They conducted a study of cost per feature delivered. Actual results, not lines of code
London was the cheapest
Eastern Europe was just behind
Canada was next
India was dead last, by a long way. The reasons are pretty obvious if you saw the conditions.
https://x.com/DanielJHannan/status/1919828966762021130
https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/1919777258622820709
Here are three things:
1) Inexperience. Listen to (say) Blair, Mark Carney or Cameron for five minutes and ask whether Reform will have front bench to speak for the UK in the corridors of power.
2) From the 2024 effort - 2029 manifesto unknown - their economics is somewhere between meaningless and catastrophic. It is not possible to articulate what they mean about tax, spend, deficit, debt etc. Their figures don't add up. They are not alone in this, but of course their USP is that unlike all the others they are honest and for the people and will get stuff done.
3) They have some unpleasant friends and their leader is in many ways an unsatisfactory team player.
I agree they may well not be right wing, except on migration (if that counts as right wing). They are social democrats really, like everyone else. Their voters will leave them no choice about that.
My firm has a few thousand people in the UK and a few thousand each in various other countries including India. At the moment if one of my team is sent to spend a couple of years in Germany, or Korea, or the Philippines or various other places they only pay NI once, here in Britain. But if they go to India they currently pay it both here and in India. We send several dozen people on assignment to our Indian office every year, and they send a similar number here, and the double taxation is a very real cost. The same is true across hundreds of multinationals. Double taxation of posted workers is unfair, and economically stupid. It hits British workers going abroad just as much as vice versa.
Remember our employee and - particularly - employer NI is much lower than most other large economies and in general UK employers posting Brits abroad benefit much more than vice versa.
The Tories are utterly hypocritical and shameless on this. At least Reform don’t pretend to want to encourage Indian business or entrepreneurs. But in one breath Kemi and Co are moaning that repealing the non dom rules mean poor old rich Indians will leave the country because they have to pay more tax, in the next they are claiming that having people pay tax only once on the same income is two tier tax. And then in the third breath they’re on their second handbrake turn and objecting to inheritance tax on the principle that you shouldn’t be taxed twice on the same income.
https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-local-elections-labour-reform-starmer-farage-tories-lib-dems-greens-12593360
Whatever tedious wank you churn out, this is a politically catastrophic move by Labour, and the Tories are right to pile on. And as for hypocrisy, give me a break, your party - the Liberal DEMOCRATS - wanted to simply REVOKE the Brexit referendum
Back then it was called CSO. Often used in Dr Who.
As to the rest of the tedious wank, it’s just facts, that’s all.
As to the rest of the tedious wank, it’s just facts, that’s all.
https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/25133303.reform-win-rochdale-seat-previously-held-mp-elsie-blundell/
Will all Muslims naturally support Pakistan, they don’t in the case of Palestine.
The main principled objection to this would be about Modi and the rule of law, but that’s true of several states were negotiating FTAs with.