People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
Seems Kemi and Farage are saying the same on this, and seems the Lib Dems are not happy, so if labour supporters cannot see the optics then they are falling into the same trap as WFA
And saying Kemi should STFU indicates she has touched a raw nerve
No she should just STFU because she has nothing important to say on anything . The Tories need to get rid of her and put someone in charge who isn’t clueless .
These double contribution conventions are common for temporary workers so you don’t pay contributions in two countries .
It’s no big deal but of course Kemi useless is hacked off that Labour got the deal that her government couldn’t .
it is a fairly big deal in the way it will affect the operation of local labour markets, if it means overseas staff are 20% cheaper purely by dint of the operation of the tax system.
Temporary workers from abroad are a tiny proportion of the workforce . I really don’t get the controversy .
So Accenture India hires 10k developers there and seconds them to the UK temporarily for three years and rinses and repeats that cycle indefinitely which means for 10k workers the government is losing £90m per year in tax vs if those workers were hired locally.
We need to see the detail and limitations on this policy but on the face of it, I think it's a poor idea and no trade deal at all would be preferable.
Aren’t there still limits on the amount of temporary workers . It’s reciprocal though and this applies to UK workers in India .
Let's see what the limits actually are though, if it's a few hundred or a couple of thousand per year then big deal. If it's unlimited then I think there's going to be a lot of abuse.
We also need rather more detail on the other side of the equation. There do seem to be significant benefits for the UK in terms of improved trade with India.
I think Sainsbury's and Tesco must be licking their lips at having a go at grabbing the Indian middle classes for British style supermarkets. There's a huge untapped market for them in India.
The trade in services ought also to benefit us. (And Scotland ought to do pretty well from the whisky and salmon concessions.)
It's entirely possible (though far from guaranteed) that the trade benefits turn out larger than claimed.
Like much else, what matters from a political POV is how it's perceived in two or three years' time. Quite a lot of the questions will be clarified long before then.
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
Problem is, those voting Reform don't have any confidence these people are "temporary" do they? Should they?
The current Government, as with the last Government have appalling communication skills. Farage on the other hand is a master. Most of your former PB Tory comrades seem to have drunk the (new) Britain Trump snake oil
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
Seems Kemi and Farage are saying the same on this, and seems the Lib Dems are not happy, so if labour supporters cannot see the optics then they are falling into the same trap as WFA
And saying Kemi should STFU indicates she has touched a raw nerve
No she should just STFU because she has nothing important to say on anything . The Tories need to get rid of her and put someone in charge who isn’t clueless .
If she goes she will simply be replaced with Jenrick, who has almost identical views but just articulates them much better, much more aggressively, knows his brief, and is good at social media. Is that really what you want?
These double contribution conventions are common for temporary workers so you don’t pay contributions in two countries .
It’s no big deal but of course Kemi useless is hacked off that Labour got the deal that her government couldn’t .
it is a fairly big deal in the way it will affect the operation of local labour markets, if it means overseas staff are 20% cheaper purely by dint of the operation of the tax system.
Temporary workers from abroad are a tiny proportion of the workforce . I really don’t get the controversy .
So Accenture India hires 10k developers there and seconds them to the UK temporarily for three years and rinses and repeats that cycle indefinitely which means for 10k workers the government is losing £90m per year in tax vs if those workers were hired locally.
We need to see the detail and limitations on this policy but on the face of it, I think it's a poor idea and no trade deal at all would be preferable.
Aren’t there still limits on the amount of temporary workers . It’s reciprocal though and this applies to UK workers in India .
Let's see what the limits actually are though, if it's a few hundred or a couple of thousand per year then big deal. If it's unlimited then I think there's going to be a lot of abuse.
We also need rather more detail on the other side of the equation. There do seem to be significant benefits for the UK in terms of improved trade with India.
I think Sainsbury's and Tesco must be licking their lips at having a go at grabbing the Indian middle classes for British style supermarkets. There's a huge untapped market for them in India.
British supermarkets seem to be a bit inept at foreign expansion. Compared with Carrefour for example.
These double contribution conventions are common for temporary workers so you don’t pay contributions in two countries .
It’s no big deal but of course Kemi useless is hacked off that Labour got the deal that her government couldn’t .
it is a fairly big deal in the way it will affect the operation of local labour markets, if it means overseas staff are 20% cheaper purely by dint of the operation of the tax system.
Temporary workers from abroad are a tiny proportion of the workforce . I really don’t get the controversy .
So Accenture India hires 10k developers there and seconds them to the UK temporarily for three years and rinses and repeats that cycle indefinitely which means for 10k workers the government is losing £90m per year in tax vs if those workers were hired locally.
We need to see the detail and limitations on this policy but on the face of it, I think it's a poor idea and no trade deal at all would be preferable.
Aren’t there still limits on the amount of temporary workers . It’s reciprocal though and this applies to UK workers in India .
Let's see what the limits actually are though, if it's a few hundred or a couple of thousand per year then big deal. If it's unlimited then I think there's going to be a lot of abuse.
We also need rather more detail on the other side of the equation. There do seem to be significant benefits for the UK in terms of improved trade with India.
I think Sainsbury's and Tesco must be licking their lips at having a go at grabbing the Indian middle classes for British style supermarkets. There's a huge untapped market for them in India.
British supermarkets seem to be a bit inept at foreign expansion. Compared with Carrefour for example.
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
Seems Kemi and Farage are saying the same on this, and seems the Lib Dems are not happy, so if labour supporters cannot see the optics then they are falling into the same trap as WFA
And saying Kemi should STFU indicates she has touched a raw nerve
No she should just STFU because she has nothing important to say on anything . The Tories need to get rid of her and put someone in charge who isn’t clueless .
I fear she will be replaced by Jenrick. An operator even more oily than Farage.
"If Labour can display some competence and deliver some improvements they could win back plenty of supporters, with potentially over four years to the next election there’s plenty of time for them to turn it around but so far it appears Labour are trying to prove the old maxim that oppositions do not win general elections, governments lose them."
This Labour Government is currently on course to set the record for having the most one term MPs in a Parliament by a country mile.
The optics of this story are terrible for Starmer's Labour government, is there anyone in No10 who understands the importance of getting the political message right?
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
More precisely, you don’t pay it twice on the same earnings in 2 countries.
Is it right that the employer won't pay the NI on Indian workers that it would if it employed someone from the UK?
Ok I’ll bite (but I’m about to head into choir after my weekly Tuesday Micky Ds). They will almost all pay the gross amount that allows the expat to pay their NI in India. If they don’t, the employee’s net income will be lower than that of a local hire. The same happens in equalisation arrangements in both directions in the dozens of countries where there’s a double social security agreement.
It would have been frankly bizarre if we hadn’t agreed this as part of the trade deal.
These double contribution conventions are common for temporary workers so you don’t pay contributions in two countries .
It’s no big deal but of course Kemi useless is hacked off that Labour got the deal that her government couldn’t .
it is a fairly big deal in the way it will affect the operation of local labour markets, if it means overseas staff are 20% cheaper purely by dint of the operation of the tax system.
Temporary workers from abroad are a tiny proportion of the workforce . I really don’t get the controversy .
So Accenture India hires 10k developers there and seconds them to the UK temporarily for three years and rinses and repeats that cycle indefinitely which means for 10k workers the government is losing £90m per year in tax vs if those workers were hired locally.
We need to see the detail and limitations on this policy but on the face of it, I think it's a poor idea and no trade deal at all would be preferable.
Aren’t there still limits on the amount of temporary workers . It’s reciprocal though and this applies to UK workers in India .
Let's see what the limits actually are though, if it's a few hundred or a couple of thousand per year then big deal. If it's unlimited then I think there's going to be a lot of abuse.
We also need rather more detail on the other side of the equation. There do seem to be significant benefits for the UK in terms of improved trade with India.
I think Sainsbury's and Tesco must be licking their lips at having a go at grabbing the Indian middle classes for British style supermarkets. There's a huge untapped market for them in India.
British supermarkets seem to be a bit inept at foreign expansion. Compared with Carrefour for example.
To be fair, Iceland managed to take over a whole country.
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
Seems Kemi and Farage are saying the same on this, and seems the Lib Dems are not happy, so if labour supporters cannot see the optics then they are falling into the same trap as WFA
And saying Kemi should STFU indicates she has touched a raw nerve
No she should just STFU because she has nothing important to say on anything . The Tories need to get rid of her and put someone in charge who isn’t clueless .
As a conservative, unlike yourself, I have no problem with Kemi
Indeed, I think Starmer is far more of a problem for labour
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
Seems Kemi and Farage are saying the same on this, and seems the Lib Dems are not happy, so if labour supporters cannot see the optics then they are falling into the same trap as WFA
And saying Kemi should STFU indicates she has touched a raw nerve
No she should just STFU because she has nothing important to say on anything . The Tories need to get rid of her and put someone in charge who isn’t clueless .
If she goes she will simply be replaced with Jenrick, who has almost identical views but just articulates them much better, much more aggressively, knows his brief, and is good at social media. Is that really what you want?
I’d rather the Tories do better . The worst thing for Labour is the total collapse of the Tory vote .
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
Seems Kemi and Farage are saying the same on this, and seems the Lib Dems are not happy, so if labour supporters cannot see the optics then they are falling into the same trap as WFA
And saying Kemi should STFU indicates she has touched a raw nerve
No she should just STFU because she has nothing important to say on anything . The Tories need to get rid of her and put someone in charge who isn’t clueless .
When they were negotiating the Indian FTA in government (recall that Kemi was the trade minister at one point) the mutual social security deal was already on the table and considered a no brainer. I know because I attended regular briefings from the negotiation team.
Basically, everyone now wants to live in Singapore or Dubai. They’re done with democracy and liberalism. It’s not delivering. They want autocracy, clean streets and zero crime
Low level crime is a really big one IMO, especially in big cities across the UK. There just doesn't seem to be any push back from the police against phone thieves, bike thieves, fare jumpers, shop looters etc... It makes people feel as if we live in a lawless society and all of the statistics in the world that suggest it's the same as somewhere else in Europe doesn't make a difference. Millions of people have experienced this kind of crime first hand and tens of millions have either witnessed or had family/friends who have low level crime committed against them and everyone is fed up.
Social media is the main reason for this perception. Tiktok is full of it, even if the crime survey shows people don't actually experience much crime at all. Theft from the person is increasing, but it's still a very low rate. Fraud is much bigger problem.
Part of me thinks the answer is the police using social media much better. Their videos of them smashing moped thieves into walls gets millions of views and likes.
It’s not fucking social media you dolt
I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Shoplifters walking into my local Tesco’s and Sainsburys and calmly sweeping entire shelves. That never used to happen. Now I see it all the time
Ditto graffiti, litter, general grottiness. I travel a great deal so I can see how much cleaner and safer foreign cities are compared to the UK. East Asia is a different and superior world. You don’t have to worry about your phone because no one will steal it
Why can’t we have that?
I walk around my local town with no fear at all. The graffiti we have is mainly from a local artist who used pastels to paint birds and other animals on shops etc. There is litter but not much and it is dealt with. This weekend we had a super 'spring in the park event' - its was great.
London is not the UK.
Given how many Brits live or work in large cities I suggest my experience is at least as common as yours
Absolutely and I'm not doubting you experience. What is the solution though? Massively increase police and prison spending and lock the feckers up? Better social clubs for kids? Conscription?
I’ve given it. Advanced forms of hi tech corporal punishment
You get caught shoplifting? You will be pepper sprayed in the eyes every day for a week. It will cause no long term damage but it will be bloody painful
Steal a phone? You will be tasered, twice a day til Monday
Lifter or graffiti? You will be given terrifying mind altering drugs that give you a hideous trip which you never want to repeat
Cheap and easy and no need for prison and we save loads of money. Do it
100 per cent detection rate and a £50 fine would do. Harsh punishment is a symptom of failure. If society cannot catch criminals, it relies on harsher and harsher punishments which spiral up because it does not work if there is almost no chance of being caught. Go back a couple of hundred years before the development of modern policing and more than 200 offences attracted the death penalty – including shoplifting.
My personal favourite was that getting married without your employer’s permission was punishable with 7 years transportation to Australia
These double contribution conventions are common for temporary workers so you don’t pay contributions in two countries .
It’s no big deal but of course Kemi useless is hacked off that Labour got the deal that her government couldn’t .
it is a fairly big deal in the way it will affect the operation of local labour markets, if it means overseas staff are 20% cheaper purely by dint of the operation of the tax system.
Temporary workers from abroad are a tiny proportion of the workforce . I really don’t get the controversy .
So Accenture India hires 10k developers there and seconds them to the UK temporarily for three years and rinses and repeats that cycle indefinitely which means for 10k workers the government is losing £90m per year in tax vs if those workers were hired locally.
We need to see the detail and limitations on this policy but on the face of it, I think it's a poor idea and no trade deal at all would be preferable.
Aren’t there still limits on the amount of temporary workers . It’s reciprocal though and this applies to UK workers in India .
Let's see what the limits actually are though, if it's a few hundred or a couple of thousand per year then big deal. If it's unlimited then I think there's going to be a lot of abuse.
We also need rather more detail on the other side of the equation. There do seem to be significant benefits for the UK in terms of improved trade with India.
I think Sainsbury's and Tesco must be licking their lips at having a go at grabbing the Indian middle classes for British style supermarkets. There's a huge untapped market for them in India.
British supermarkets seem to be a bit inept at foreign expansion. Compared with Carrefour for example.
To be fair, Iceland managed to take over a whole country.
Um there are only 2 Iceland stores in Iceland - one in Kópavogur and 1 on the outskirts of Reykjavík.
Wow, Farage is claiming there are no legal numerical limits to the number of workers that can be hired from India, under this scheme. Can that possibly be true?
It feels.... insane
This is from a government that promises to go "further and faster" in bringing down immigration; yet they've just - allegedly - conjured up a mammoth incentive for eligible companies to hire from a foreign country with 1.4bn people
HOWEVER we really do need the deets. Farage says it is potentially unlimited, the Times says it is 100 people a year? That is quite the difference
If Farage is right then labour will be in great difficulty
Let's see but Farage video is terrible for labour especially after last week
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
Seems Kemi and Farage are saying the same on this, and seems the Lib Dems are not happy, so if labour supporters cannot see the optics then they are falling into the same trap as WFA
And saying Kemi should STFU indicates she has touched a raw nerve
No she should just STFU because she has nothing important to say on anything . The Tories need to get rid of her and put someone in charge who isn’t clueless .
If she goes she will simply be replaced with Jenrick, who has almost identical views but just articulates them much better, much more aggressively, knows his brief, and is good at social media. Is that really what you want?
I’d rather the Tories do better . The worst thing for Labour is the total collapse of the Tory vote .
That's interesting, and honest, so thanks
I believe the Tories are probably doomed, they've got one more roll of the dice in terms of leader. It's Jenrick or - somehow - Boris
The polls say Boris could turn it around, which astonishes me - but them's the polls
Jenriick would be a smarter, sharper version of Badenoch
One of those two will be the Tories' final bid for survival, and if it fails then oblivion beckons
I promise you, the #TradeDeal the UK government has just struck with #India will not be a good deal for Britian - eg in terms of impacts on migration, jobs, taxes
Labour are "cutting off their nose to spite our nation's face" rather than focus on repairing trade with the EU!
Stinks of desperation, not to mention selling out our morals to Modi and his right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)
Wow, Farage is claiming there are no legal numerical limits to the number of workers that can be hired from India, under this scheme. Can that possibly be true?
It feels.... insane
This is from a government that promises to go "further and faster" in bringing down immigration; yet they've just - allegedly - conjured up a mammoth incentive for eligible companies to hire from a foreign country with 1.4bn people
HOWEVER we really do need the deets. Farage says it is potentially unlimited, the Times says it is 100 people a year? That is quite the difference
If Farage is right then labour will be in great difficulty
Let's see but Farage video is terrible for labour especially after last week
Here is another viewpoint, this Tweeter is on the right - Daily Express - but generally quite honest
"🔥Former Home Office official says India is "literally laughing at us" and "taking us for mugs".
It's a huge capitulation and one even Rishi Sunak refused to grant in order to get a deal over the line before the election.
India is already the worst country in the world for returns agreements for illegal migrants in Britain who we want to return."
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
More precisely, you don’t pay it twice on the same earnings in 2 countries.
Is it right that the employer won't pay the NI on Indian workers that it would if it employed someone from the UK?
Ok I’ll bite (but I’m about to head into choir after my weekly Tuesday Micky Ds). They will almost all pay the gross amount that allows the expat to pay their NI in India. If they don’t, the employee’s net income will be lower than that of a local hire. The same happens in equalisation arrangements in both directions in the dozens of countries where there’s a double social security agreement.
It would have been frankly bizarre if we hadn’t agreed this as part of the trade deal.
The details rarely matter. The world is turning increasingly protectionist driven by social media and our demographic challenges. What was a sensible detail that no-one cared about in our 1990-2020 world is now easily portrayed as catastrophic to the audience.
I promise you, the #TradeDeal the UK government has just struck with #India will not be a good deal for Britian - eg in terms of impacts on migration, jobs, taxes
Labour are "cutting off their nose to spite our nation's face" rather than focus on repairing trade with the EU!
Stinks of desperation, not to mention selling out our morals to Modi and his right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)
Of course, this is the other side of the argument where pro EU (re-joiners) see trade deals as complicating their desire to re-join the EU
Interesting because the test is based on picking up blocks, a physical task. It involves a lot of high tech measurement kit and AI analysis so not something you can do at home, but might be a new take on the autism explosion.
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
Seems Kemi and Farage are saying the same on this, and seems the Lib Dems are not happy, so if labour supporters cannot see the optics then they are falling into the same trap as WFA
And saying Kemi should STFU indicates she has touched a raw nerve
No she should just STFU because she has nothing important to say on anything . The Tories need to get rid of her and put someone in charge who isn’t clueless .
As a conservative, unlike yourself, I have no problem with Kemi
Indeed, I think Starmer is far more of a problem for labour
You hit the nail on the head. I like Kemi Badenoch, she is refreshingly honest and says it how it is while Jenrick is in the right Shadow Cabinet post to be most effective.
I promise you, the #TradeDeal the UK government has just struck with #India will not be a good deal for Britian - eg in terms of impacts on migration, jobs, taxes
Labour are "cutting off their nose to spite our nation's face" rather than focus on repairing trade with the EU!
Stinks of desperation, not to mention selling out our morals to Modi and his right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)
I would be interested how many posts our Travel Correspondent has made today. It must be a prolific performance.
lol. It has been quite heroic. I've got a cold so all I can physically manage is the odd comment on here, and the occasional look at naughty photos of my Camden PCSO ex girlfriend for 3-4 hours
Hopefully I will be better soon, and I have lots of work to do
Who was the Supreme Allied Commander who oversaw D day and victory in Europe?
A. General Dwight Eisenhower B. Sir Winston Churchill C. Captain George Mainwaring D. General Bernard Montgomery
Popular and actual answers to follow.
Fun anecdote, Churchill told Eisenhower he wanted to be on a ship on D-Day so he could see the landings.
Eisenhower really didn't want Churchill to be there, he liked Churchill a lot but was worried if the Germans got lucky they might kill Churchill and no matter how successful the landings were that would be the story but Churchill wouldn't budge.
At one lunch with King George VI General Eisenhower told the King of his problem, and the King told him he would sort it.
The King told Churchill that if Churchill was going then so would he as it would look bad that King wasn't there. Churchill realising that if the Germans got lucky and killed the King that would be the story, so Churchill decided he wouldn't be there at Normandy.
I would be interested how many posts our Travel Correspondent has made today. It must be a prolific performance.
lol. It has been quite heroic. I've got a cold so all I can physically manage is the odd comment on here, and the occasional look at naughty photos of my Camden PCSO ex girlfriend for 3-4 hours
Hopefully I will be better soon, and I have lots of work to do
Is there anything we can do to help you rekindle your romance?
The more hours you are inflagrante the fewer opportunities you have to post.
I would be interested how many posts our Travel Correspondent has made today. It must be a prolific performance.
lol. It has been quite heroic. I've got a cold so all I can physically manage is the odd comment on here, and the occasional look at naughty photos of my Camden PCSO ex girlfriend for 3-4 hours
Hopefully I will be better soon, and I have lots of work to do
Anything to stop you dumping your endless stream of braindead sewage in here.
Who was the Supreme Allied Commander who oversaw D day and victory in Europe?
A. General Dwight Eisenhower B. Sir Winston Churchill C. Captain George Mainwaring D. General Bernard Montgomery
Popular and actual answers to follow.
Fun anecdote, Churchill told Eisenhower he wanted to be on a ship on D-Day so he could see the landings.
Eisenhower really didn't want Churchill to be there, he liked Churchill a lot but was worried if the Germans got lucky they might kill Churchill and no matter how successful the landings were that would be the story but Churchill wouldn't budge.
At one lunch with King George VI General Eisenhower told the King of his problem, and the King told him he would sort it.
The King told Churchill that if Churchill was going then so would he as it would look bad that King wasn't there. Churchill realising that if the Germans got lucky and killed the King that would be the story, so Churchill decided he wouldn't be there at Normandy.
What a nice story to counter the now at least 66 frantic travel posts.
"The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."
Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.
I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
This is the worst part: " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else." So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.
Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
What clown thought it was a good idea to make it better and cheaper to import foreign workers rather than have local people doing jobs , Douglas Alexander involved guaranteed it would be a shit sandwich for locals. Heard him on TV stating it would not increase immigration as they would be classed as temporary workers and so not immigrants, they really think we are stupid.
Wow, Farage is claiming there are no legal numerical limits to the number of workers that can be hired from India, under this scheme. Can that possibly be true?
It feels.... insane
This is from a government that promises to go "further and faster" in bringing down immigration; yet they've just - allegedly - conjured up a mammoth incentive for eligible companies to hire from a foreign country with 1.4bn people
HOWEVER we really do need the deets. Farage says it is potentially unlimited, the Times says it is 100 people a year? That is quite the difference
If Farage is right then labour will be in great difficulty
Let's see but Farage video is terrible for labour especially after last week
Farage is right that Labour will be in great difficulty. I can think of 200,000 people (IT contractors) who will be very annoyed as they know how this will play out.
Oh god, not no deal is better than a bad deal all over again...
If it's limited to 100 spots per year as leaked to The Times then it's fine, if it's unlimited then the government are in serious trouble.
On that I'm extremely sceptical.
Why would the Indian government negotiate for several years for just 100 spots?
Because they thought they might get a lot more? We don't know what the ask was.
And, we don't know that is was important to them. There was lots of reporting of it because it involves immigration. Plus, remainers loved talking about it because it made brexit seem futile,
“Winning trophies is about being in the right moment, in the right place. Liverpool have won the title with less points than we had in the last two seasons. With the points from the last two season, we have two Premier Leagues.” 😬
Points after 35 games: Arsenal 22/23: 81 Arsenal 23/24: 80 Liverpool 24/25: 82
I promise you, the #TradeDeal the UK government has just struck with #India will not be a good deal for Britian - eg in terms of impacts on migration, jobs, taxes
Labour are "cutting off their nose to spite our nation's face" rather than focus on repairing trade with the EU!
Stinks of desperation, not to mention selling out our morals to Modi and his right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)
I wonder if the deal involves any "toys" for the Kashmir Occupation Force Indian Army.
“Winning trophies is about being in the right moment, in the right place. Liverpool have won the title with less points than we had in the last two seasons. With the points from the last two season, we have two Premier Leagues.” 😬
Points after 35 games: Arsenal 22/23: 81 Arsenal 23/24: 80 Liverpool 24/25: 82
Surely you understand the point he is making? Liverpool have won the league already this season with 82 points, Arsenal got more than 82 points in both of the last two seasons and didn't win it. The "after 35 games " part is a red herring
Who was the Supreme Allied Commander who oversaw D day and victory in Europe?
A. General Dwight Eisenhower B. Sir Winston Churchill C. Captain George Mainwaring D. General Bernard Montgomery
Popular and actual answers to follow.
All of the above.
A) Military commander B Politician who insisted on more divisions. C) Organised the lynch pin of rear area defence D) Kept Eisenhower on his toes by wanting his job so obviously.
“Winning trophies is about being in the right moment, in the right place. Liverpool have won the title with less points than we had in the last two seasons. With the points from the last two season, we have two Premier Leagues.” 😬
Points after 35 games: Arsenal 22/23: 81 Arsenal 23/24: 80 Liverpool 24/25: 82
Surely you understand the point he is making? Liverpool have won the league already this season with 82 points, Arsenal got more than 82 points in both of the last two seasons and didn't win it. The "after 35 games " part is a red herring
He seems to forget Liverpool didn't win the title with 92 and 97 (sob) points.
Who was the Supreme Allied Commander who oversaw D day and victory in Europe?
A. General Dwight Eisenhower B. Sir Winston Churchill C. Captain George Mainwaring D. General Bernard Montgomery
Popular and actual answers to follow.
Fun anecdote, Churchill told Eisenhower he wanted to be on a ship on D-Day so he could see the landings.
Eisenhower really didn't want Churchill to be there, he liked Churchill a lot but was worried if the Germans got lucky they might kill Churchill and no matter how successful the landings were that would be the story but Churchill wouldn't budge.
At one lunch with King George VI General Eisenhower told the King of his problem, and the King told him he would sort it.
The King told Churchill that if Churchill was going then so would he as it would look bad that King wasn't there. Churchill realising that if the Germans got lucky and killed the King that would be the story, so Churchill decided he wouldn't be there at Normandy.
Eisenhower was actually more worried that Churchill would start issuing orders….
I promise you, the #TradeDeal the UK government has just struck with #India will not be a good deal for Britian - eg in terms of impacts on migration, jobs, taxes
Labour are "cutting off their nose to spite our nation's face" rather than focus on repairing trade with the EU!
Stinks of desperation, not to mention selling out our morals to Modi and his right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)
I would be interested how many posts our Travel Correspondent has made today. It must be a prolific performance.
lol. It has been quite heroic. I've got a cold so all I can physically manage is the odd comment on here, and the occasional look at naughty photos of my Camden PCSO ex girlfriend for 3-4 hours
Hopefully I will be better soon, and I have lots of work to do
Is there anything we can do to help you rekindle your romance?
The more hours you are inflagrante the fewer opportunities you have to post.
“Winning trophies is about being in the right moment, in the right place. Liverpool have won the title with less points than we had in the last two seasons. With the points from the last two season, we have two Premier Leagues.” 😬
Points after 35 games: Arsenal 22/23: 81 Arsenal 23/24: 80 Liverpool 24/25: 82
Surely you understand the point he is making? Liverpool have won the league already this season with 82 points, Arsenal got more than 82 points in both of the last two seasons and didn't win it. The "after 35 games " part is a red herring
He seems to forget Liverpool didn't win the title with 92 and 97 (sob) points.
Vintage Prem seasons, no doubt.
I would have thought that if someone other than Man City had the title sewn up with three games to go having secured 88pts the following season, Klopp would have felt as exasperated as Arteta does now.
I promise you, the #TradeDeal the UK government has just struck with #India will not be a good deal for Britian - eg in terms of impacts on migration, jobs, taxes
Labour are "cutting off their nose to spite our nation's face" rather than focus on repairing trade with the EU!
Stinks of desperation, not to mention selling out our morals to Modi and his right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)
Gina Miller is Steve Bray with a pen.
She made much play of being a director of a hedge fund. As I recall, she had a PR job for BMW prior to that, and the other hedge fund director was her husband. But I suppose hedge funds are partly PR.
I mentioned last week I spoke to somebody who told me the big fear isn't Labour losing support to Reform but their support splintering leftwards towards the Greens, Lib Dems, and PC.
I promise you, the #TradeDeal the UK government has just struck with #India will not be a good deal for Britian - eg in terms of impacts on migration, jobs, taxes
Labour are "cutting off their nose to spite our nation's face" rather than focus on repairing trade with the EU!
Stinks of desperation, not to mention selling out our morals to Modi and his right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)
Of course, this is the other side of the argument where pro EU (re-joiners) see trade deals as complicating their desire to re-join the EU
I think it's more that she doesn't like Modi (and, fair enough).
“Winning trophies is about being in the right moment, in the right place. Liverpool have won the title with less points than we had in the last two seasons. With the points from the last two season, we have two Premier Leagues.” 😬
Points after 35 games: Arsenal 22/23: 81 Arsenal 23/24: 80 Liverpool 24/25: 82
Surely you understand the point he is making? Liverpool have won the league already this season with 82 points, Arsenal got more than 82 points in both of the last two seasons and didn't win it. The "after 35 games " part is a red herring
He seems to forget Liverpool didn't win the title with 92 and 97 (sob) points.
Vintage Prem seasons, no doubt.
I would have thought that if someone other than Man City had the title sewn up with three games to go having secured 88pts the following season, Klopp would have felt as exasperated as Arteta does now.
He's fine with it, he's utterly delighted Liverpool have won another title.
The 97 points season one still haunts me, I know we won the Champions League that season, but when you hit 97 points and don't win the title I was convinced Liverpool would never win the title.
There was a run of games in the 2018/19 and 2019/20 seasons when we won 110 points out 114 points, that’s 38 games played, 36 wins, and 2 draws.
“Winning trophies is about being in the right moment, in the right place. Liverpool have won the title with less points than we had in the last two seasons. With the points from the last two season, we have two Premier Leagues.” 😬
Points after 35 games: Arsenal 22/23: 81 Arsenal 23/24: 80 Liverpool 24/25: 82
Surely you understand the point he is making? Liverpool have won the league already this season with 82 points, Arsenal got more than 82 points in both of the last two seasons and didn't win it. The "after 35 games " part is a red herring
He seems to forget Liverpool didn't win the title with 92 and 97 (sob) points.
Vintage Prem seasons, no doubt.
I would have thought that if someone other than Man City had the title sewn up with three games to go having secured 88pts the following season, Klopp would have felt as exasperated as Arteta does now.
He's fine with it, he's utterly delighted Liverpool have won another title.
The 97 points season one still haunts me, I know we won the Champions League that season, but when you hit 97 points and don't win the title I was convinced Liverpool would never win the title.
There was a run of games in the 2018/19 and 2019/20 seasons when we won 110 points out 114 points, that 38 games played, 36 wins, and 2 draws.
That was some of the best football ever played.
Sorry, I meant Klopp would have been exasperated in the season following the 92 and 97 point seasons had someone secured the title with 88, not that he was envious of Arne Slot now
We’re going to see a significant fall in the numbers over the next two ONS updates .
It’s a fair question. I reckon they have to fall by a LOT. They need to go south of 250,000 - which is a massive drop. Even that would be historically a massive number - but small in comparison to the Boriswave
If they also stop the boats pretty much outright then it might be enough. I have my doubts they can achieve this. They are so fixated on growth and the easiest way to boost growth is the cheap calories of immigration. See this recent India deal. That doesn’t sound like a government wanting to majorly crush migration stats
As with many of the immigration deals, the "reciprocal" part of it is to a large extent theoretical; as with A8 migration, there will be hundreds, if not thousands of Indian workers coming to the UK for each UK worker who makes the return journey. I wouldn't have thought there would be many Reform inclined voters among them
We’re going to see a significant fall in the numbers over the next two ONS updates .
It’s a fair question. I reckon they have to fall by a LOT. They need to go south of 250,000 - which is a massive drop. Even that would be historically a massive number - but small in comparison to the Boriswave
If they also stop the boats pretty much outright then it might be enough. I have my doubts they can achieve this. They are so fixated on growth and the easiest way to boost growth is the cheap calories of immigration. See this recent India deal. That doesn’t sound like a government wanting to majorly crush migration stats
75,000 a year used to be regarded as a lot until about 20 years ago.
We’re going to see a significant fall in the numbers over the next two ONS updates .
It’s a fair question. I reckon they have to fall by a LOT. They need to go south of 250,000 - which is a massive drop. Even that would be historically a massive number - but small in comparison to the Boriswave
If they also stop the boats pretty much outright then it might be enough. I have my doubts they can achieve this. They are so fixated on growth and the easiest way to boost growth is the cheap calories of immigration. See this recent India deal. That doesn’t sound like a government wanting to majorly crush migration stats
Well, it is worth remembering that they will fall by a lot. Mostly, it must be said, because of things done by Sunak.
Firstly, the higher income thresholds mean fewer people will get working visas than used to be the case.
Secondly, there has been a big crackdown on student visas issued.
Thirdly, we're about to anniversary the first year of really high student numbers, and even if only 40% of them go home, that'll still be quite a big negative contributor to total numbers.
Yvette Cooper was not informed about govt's plans to make it cheaper for Indian workers to come to UK as part of the free trade deal, @kiranstacey@elenicourea report in their story tonight.
Home Sec was left in the dark over controversial elements of agreement which will mean Indian workers and companies avoiding national insurance, even as those on British employers are being hiked.
Home Office officials said to have been confused by process of agreeing the deal, having expected to be informed about anything which could increase migration to UK.
"The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."
Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.
I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
This is the worst part: " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else." So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.
Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani
"Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"
..Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers gain from a three year National Insurance exemption, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement". The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and UK firms' workers transferred to India. The agreement means they will only pay social security contributions in their home country, rather than in both places. The UK already has similar "double contribution convention" agreements with 17 other countries including the EU, the US and South Korea, the government said...
I want to see more clarity on this before getting excited.
So, basically, it's nothing like some of the descriptions from the radical right trolls on social media.
I've said this before, but explaining why the bad thing was done, or saying we've done the bad thing before, does not stop it being a bad thing.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. It is not to enrich the populations of other countries. As I keep saying: they don't know how to fly the plane.
We’re going to see a significant fall in the numbers over the next two ONS updates .
It’s a fair question. I reckon they have to fall by a LOT. They need to go south of 250,000 - which is a massive drop. Even that would be historically a massive number - but small in comparison to the Boriswave
If they also stop the boats pretty much outright then it might be enough. I have my doubts they can achieve this. They are so fixated on growth and the easiest way to boost growth is the cheap calories of immigration. See this recent India deal. That doesn’t sound like a government wanting to majorly crush migration stats
Well, it is worth remembering that they will fall by a lot. Mostly, it must be said, because of things done by Sunak.
Firstly, the higher income thresholds mean fewer people will get working visas than used to be the case.
Secondly, there has been a big crackdown on student visas issued.
Thirdly, we're about to anniversary the first year of really high student numbers, and even if only 40% of them go home, that'll still be quite a big negative contributor to total numbers.
They will also fall a lot because of things not done by Sunak: the Ukraine and Hong Kong schemes have mostly played out.
I think it would be better to wait for the full details of the UK-India trade deal including a proper impact assessment before leaping to judgement, but here goes anyway...
At first sight this deal looks like a win-win, including the agreement to exempt Indian workers from social security contributions in the UK (and vice versa).
This appears to be a standard agreement to avoid double taxation for people working here temporarily, just like we already have with many other countries.
Without it, Indian workers and their employers in the UK have to pay social security contributions in both the UK and India, even though they are not eligible for all the benefits (especially the state pension) that National Insurance gets you.
What's more, the worker/employer will still have to pay Indian social security contributions, which are similar to those in the UK, as well as other additional costs including visa/sponsorship fees and the NHS surcharge.
So this deal alone will not allow Indian workers to 'undercut' British ones, especially as visa numbers will still be limited. Instead, it creates a level playing field between the two, which is surely a good thing?
I stand ready to be corrected, but does anyone think I'm wrong on this? 🤔
ps. whatever you think of the arguments here, the fact that people who follow this stuff far more closely than me have so many different views also underlines just how awful Labour's comms have been! 🙄
We’re going to see a significant fall in the numbers over the next two ONS updates .
The actual flow of immigrants may not matter a great deal to the politics of immigration (which is a proxy for race). There was net emigration in the 1960s, yet that was when Powell made his "Rivers of Blood" speech. It remained net emigration through the 1970s rise of the National Front, and was net emigration in some years as recently as 1992, despite talk of the country being "swamped".
Anti-immigration feeling is driven more by cultural change than numbers as far as I can see, and short of reviving the "If they are Black, send them back" NF slogan not a feeling that will be easily satisfied.
"The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."
Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.
I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
This is the worst part: " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else." So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.
Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani
"Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"
..Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers gain from a three year National Insurance exemption, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement". The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and UK firms' workers transferred to India. The agreement means they will only pay social security contributions in their home country, rather than in both places. The UK already has similar "double contribution convention" agreements with 17 other countries including the EU, the US and South Korea, the government said...
I want to see more clarity on this before getting excited.
So, basically, it's nothing like some of the descriptions from the radical right trolls on social media.
I've said this before, but explaining why the bad thing was done, or saying we've done the bad thing before, does not stop it being a bad thing.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. It is not to enrich the populations of other countries. As I keep saying: they don't know how to fly the plane.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is not just to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. The government also wants to bring prosperity (in part because prosperity pays for the preserving, protecting and defending bit). Trade deals with other countries can be very good things, enriching both countries and also strengthening relationships in other positive ways.
I don't know the details of this trade deal. It may be a good or bad thing. I do know that radical right trolls, here and elsewhere, are mischaracterising it, as they lie about most things. It's the same approach Trump and the Republicans took.
Does anybody here actually know whether the new ‘online triage’ offered/forced on patients at my local GP count toward the ‘millions of extra appointments’ Labour are talking about securing? @foxy ?
It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?
Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain
Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave
This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course
More cod psychology from Leon. It's infantile. Why not visit one of the decent agencies and get them to show you round their research departments. Pumping out the same crap day ofter interminable day just gets interesting posters to slide away
"The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."
Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.
I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
This is the worst part: " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else." So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.
Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani
"Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"
..Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers gain from a three year National Insurance exemption, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement". The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and UK firms' workers transferred to India. The agreement means they will only pay social security contributions in their home country, rather than in both places. The UK already has similar "double contribution convention" agreements with 17 other countries including the EU, the US and South Korea, the government said...
I want to see more clarity on this before getting excited.
So, basically, it's nothing like some of the descriptions from the radical right trolls on social media.
I've said this before, but explaining why the bad thing was done, or saying we've done the bad thing before, does not stop it being a bad thing.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. It is not to enrich the populations of other countries. As I keep saying: they don't know how to fly the plane.
Pros and cons, isn't it. If something brings a net benefit to the UK it's probably worth doing if we can. If we follow that rule we'll do ok, by and large.
Does anybody here actually know whether the new ‘online triage’ offered/forced on patients at my local GP count toward the ‘millions of extra appointments’ Labour are talking about securing? @foxy ?
I have no idea.
The numbers of GP appointments both face to face and online used to be published on the DoH website, so should be fairly easy to analyse.
Does anybody here actually know whether the new ‘online triage’ offered/forced on patients at my local GP count toward the ‘millions of extra appointments’ Labour are talking about securing? @foxy ?
I would prefer to be able to ask my doctor for an appointment outside of opening hours - if all you've got is an infection that could be fungal or viral waiting to 8am to post the photos is a bit pointless.
It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?
Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain
Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave
This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course
More cod psychology from Leon. It's infantile. Why not visit one of the decent agencies and get them to show you round their research departments. Pumping out the same crap day ofter interminable day just gets interesting posters to slide away
"The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."
Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.
I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
This is the worst part: " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else." So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.
Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani
"Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"
..Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers gain from a three year National Insurance exemption, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement". The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and UK firms' workers transferred to India. The agreement means they will only pay social security contributions in their home country, rather than in both places. The UK already has similar "double contribution convention" agreements with 17 other countries including the EU, the US and South Korea, the government said...
I want to see more clarity on this before getting excited.
So, basically, it's nothing like some of the descriptions from the radical right trolls on social media.
I've said this before, but explaining why the bad thing was done, or saying we've done the bad thing before, does not stop it being a bad thing.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. It is not to enrich the populations of other countries. As I keep saying: they don't know how to fly the plane.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is not just to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. The government also wants to bring prosperity (in part because prosperity pays for the preserving, protecting and defending bit). Trade deals with other countries can be very good things, enriching both countries and also strengthening relationships in other positive ways.
I don't know the details of this trade deal. It may be a good or bad thing. I do know that radical right trolls, here and elsewhere, are mischaracterising it, as they lie about most things. It's the same approach Trump and the Republicans took.
It allows Indian IT workers to come here and not pay 8% Employee NI and it may or may not allow TCS avoid paying employers NI...
People are aware that this exact same arrangement already applies to temporary workers from a host of overseas countries , including the EU and countries in the EEA .
Kemi needs to STFU and stop embarrassing herself . Does she realize that her own government signed upto exactly the same thing in the Brexit agreement.
If you’re a temporary worker you don’t pay NI.
Seems Kemi and Farage are saying the same on this, and seems the Lib Dems are not happy, so if labour supporters cannot see the optics then they are falling into the same trap as WFA
And saying Kemi should STFU indicates she has touched a raw nerve
No she should just STFU because she has nothing important to say on anything . The Tories need to get rid of her and put someone in charge who isn’t clueless .
If she goes she will simply be replaced with Jenrick, who has almost identical views but just articulates them much better, much more aggressively, knows his brief, and is good at social media. Is that really what you want?
I’d rather the Tories do better . The worst thing for Labour is the total collapse of the Tory vote .
That's interesting, and honest, so thanks
I believe the Tories are probably doomed, they've got one more roll of the dice in terms of leader. It's Jenrick or - somehow - Boris
The polls say Boris could turn it around, which astonishes me - but them's the polls
Jenriick would be a smarter, sharper version of Badenoch
One of those two will be the Tories' final bid for survival, and if it fails then oblivion beckons
Ironically, bar Boris returning, PR would now be better than FPTP for the Tories longer term survival
"The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."
Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.
I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
This is the worst part: " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else." So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.
Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani
"Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"
..Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers gain from a three year National Insurance exemption, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement". The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and UK firms' workers transferred to India. The agreement means they will only pay social security contributions in their home country, rather than in both places. The UK already has similar "double contribution convention" agreements with 17 other countries including the EU, the US and South Korea, the government said...
I want to see more clarity on this before getting excited.
So, basically, it's nothing like some of the descriptions from the radical right trolls on social media.
I've said this before, but explaining why the bad thing was done, or saying we've done the bad thing before, does not stop it being a bad thing.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. It is not to enrich the populations of other countries. As I keep saying: they don't know how to fly the plane.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is not just to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. The government also wants to bring prosperity (in part because prosperity pays for the preserving, protecting and defending bit). Trade deals with other countries can be very good things, enriching both countries and also strengthening relationships in other positive ways.
I don't know the details of this trade deal. It may be a good or bad thing. I do know that radical right trolls, here and elsewhere, are mischaracterising it, as they lie about most things. It's the same approach Trump and the Republicans took.
If you just assume without spending a single second researching it that what Pop Right people say on every topic is nonsense you'll be correct 99% of the time. Given life is short it's an approach I thoroughly recommend.
"The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."
Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.
I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
This is the worst part: " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else." So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.
Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani
"Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"
..Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers gain from a three year National Insurance exemption, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement". The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and UK firms' workers transferred to India. The agreement means they will only pay social security contributions in their home country, rather than in both places. The UK already has similar "double contribution convention" agreements with 17 other countries including the EU, the US and South Korea, the government said...
I want to see more clarity on this before getting excited.
So, basically, it's nothing like some of the descriptions from the radical right trolls on social media.
I've said this before, but explaining why the bad thing was done, or saying we've done the bad thing before, does not stop it being a bad thing.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. It is not to enrich the populations of other countries. As I keep saying: they don't know how to fly the plane.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is not just to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. The government also wants to bring prosperity (in part because prosperity pays for the preserving, protecting and defending bit). Trade deals with other countries can be very good things, enriching both countries and also strengthening relationships in other positive ways.
I don't know the details of this trade deal. It may be a good or bad thing. I do know that radical right trolls, here and elsewhere, are mischaracterising it, as they lie about most things. It's the same approach Trump and the Republicans took.
It allows Indian IT workers to come here and not pay 8% Employee NI and it may or may not allow TCS avoid paying employers NI...
It allows Indian IT workers who are currently employed by an Indian firm to come here with that firm for a limited period of time, and it allows UK workers to do the same in India.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
Does anybody here actually know whether the new ‘online triage’ offered/forced on patients at my local GP count toward the ‘millions of extra appointments’ Labour are talking about securing? @foxy ?
I have no idea.
The numbers of GP appointments both face to face and online used to be published on the DoH website, so should be fairly easy to analyse.
I had it in mind that an online appointment was a communication with the doctor in real time, ie they’re on the other end of a chat or Skype/teams call. What I got was a series of preset multiple choice questions on the gov.uk website, but that might just be what they mean by triage rather than an online appointment
NEW: Tulsi Gabbard, now the US director of national intelligence, used the same easily cracked password for different online accounts including a personal Gmail account and Dropbox over a period of years, leaked records reviewed by WIRED reveal.
I promise you, the #TradeDeal the UK government has just struck with #India will not be a good deal for Britian - eg in terms of impacts on migration, jobs, taxes
Labour are "cutting off their nose to spite our nation's face" rather than focus on repairing trade with the EU!
Stinks of desperation, not to mention selling out our morals to Modi and his right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)
Of course, this is the other side of the argument where pro EU (re-joiners) see trade deals as complicating their desire to re-join the EU
I think it's more that she doesn't like Modi (and, fair enough).
"The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."
Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.
I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
This is the worst part: " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else." So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.
Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani
"Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"
..Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers gain from a three year National Insurance exemption, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement". The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and UK firms' workers transferred to India. The agreement means they will only pay social security contributions in their home country, rather than in both places. The UK already has similar "double contribution convention" agreements with 17 other countries including the EU, the US and South Korea, the government said...
I want to see more clarity on this before getting excited.
So, basically, it's nothing like some of the descriptions from the radical right trolls on social media.
I've said this before, but explaining why the bad thing was done, or saying we've done the bad thing before, does not stop it being a bad thing.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. It is not to enrich the populations of other countries. As I keep saying: they don't know how to fly the plane.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is not just to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. The government also wants to bring prosperity (in part because prosperity pays for the preserving, protecting and defending bit). Trade deals with other countries can be very good things, enriching both countries and also strengthening relationships in other positive ways.
I don't know the details of this trade deal. It may be a good or bad thing. I do know that radical right trolls, here and elsewhere, are mischaracterising it, as they lie about most things. It's the same approach Trump and the Republicans took.
It allows Indian IT workers to come here and not pay 8% Employee NI and it may or may not allow TCS avoid paying employers NI...
It allows Indian IT workers who are currently employed by an Indian firm to come here with that firm for a limited period of time, and it allows UK workers to do the same in India.
We've made it easier for this business model to facilitate wage arbitrage in service industries.
On the super reliable “angry Daily Mail comments” metric, British Jobs For Indian Workers is a catastrophe. 7000 angry comments in about 3 hours. Up there with WFA
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
'Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers will also gain from a three-year exemption from social security payments, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
There is a part of me that likes the smaller parties winning. I don't know what a Plaid Senedd would do (compulsory Welsh? 10mph speed limit?) but it would be nice to see them try.
Comments
(And Scotland ought to do pretty well from the whisky and salmon concessions.)
It's entirely possible (though far from guaranteed) that the trade benefits turn out larger than claimed.
Like much else, what matters from a political POV is how it's perceived in two or three years' time. Quite a lot of the questions will be clarified long before then.
It's a shame the Tories lost Portsmouth North.
This Labour Government is currently on course to set the record for having the most one term MPs in a Parliament by a country mile.
Top story in the Daily Mail - ''British workers come last': Fury as employers who hire Indian workers are given a major tax break under Labour's free trade deal'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14683447/Britain-signs-25-5billion-India-free-trade-deal.html
The optics of this story are terrible for Starmer's Labour government, is there anyone in No10 who understands the importance of getting the political message right?
It would have been frankly bizarre if we hadn’t agreed this as part of the trade deal.
Indeed, I think Starmer is far more of a problem for labour
ETA for context
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reciprocal-agreements/reciprocal-agreements
"Nigel Farage couldn't design Labour's policy more to Reform's benefit even if he was actually put in charge of it."
https://x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1919807928057360891
Let's see but Farage video is terrible for labour especially after last week
I believe the Tories are probably doomed, they've got one more roll of the dice in terms of leader. It's Jenrick or - somehow - Boris
The polls say Boris could turn it around, which astonishes me - but them's the polls
Jenriick would be a smarter, sharper version of Badenoch
One of those two will be the Tories' final bid for survival, and if it fails then oblivion beckons
https://x.com/thatginamiller/status/1919783359976243331
I promise you, the #TradeDeal the UK government has just struck with #India will not be a good deal for Britian - eg in terms of impacts on migration, jobs, taxes
Labour are "cutting off their nose to spite our nation's face" rather than focus on repairing trade with the EU!
Stinks of desperation, not to mention selling out our morals to Modi and his right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)
"🔥Former Home Office official says India is "literally laughing at us" and "taking us for mugs".
It's a huge capitulation and one even Rishi Sunak refused to grant in order to get a deal over the line before the election.
India is already the worst country in the world for returns agreements for illegal migrants in Britain who we want to return."
https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1919778259769643234
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14683271/two-minute-practical-test-you-child-autism.html
Interesting because the test is based on picking up blocks, a physical task. It involves a lot of high tech measurement kit and AI analysis so not something you can do at home, but might be a new take on the autism explosion.
Hopefully I will be better soon, and I have lots of work to do
A. General Dwight Eisenhower
B. Sir Winston Churchill
C. Captain George Mainwaring
D. General Bernard Montgomery
Popular and actual answers to follow.
Perhaps word count is a better metric.
Eisenhower really didn't want Churchill to be there, he liked Churchill a lot but was worried if the Germans got lucky they might kill Churchill and no matter how successful the landings were that would be the story but Churchill wouldn't budge.
At one lunch with King George VI General Eisenhower told the King of his problem, and the King told him he would sort it.
The King told Churchill that if Churchill was going then so would he as it would look bad that King wasn't there. Churchill realising that if the Germans got lucky and killed the King that would be the story, so Churchill decided he wouldn't be there at Normandy.
https://x.com/rebeccarightnow/status/1919792279226876325/photo/1
The more hours you are inflagrante the fewer opportunities you have to post.
E. Donald J Trump
Apparently the popular youth vote went with C.
Why would the Indian government negotiate for several years for just 100 spots?
If Labour don’t win next year’s Welsh elections, it’ll be first time they’ve not won an election there since 1922.
🟢PLAID 30
🌐REFORM 25
🔴LABOUR 18
🔵CONSERVATIVES 13
🟡LIB DEMS 7
🟢GREEN 5
https://x.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1919810958135844876
And, we don't know that is was important to them. There was lots of reporting of it because it involves immigration. Plus, remainers loved talking about it because it made brexit seem futile,
Mikel Arteta on Arsenal’s hunt for trophies:
“Winning trophies is about being in the right moment, in the right place. Liverpool have won the title with less points than we had in the last two seasons. With the points from the last two season, we have two Premier Leagues.” 😬
Points after 35 games:
Arsenal 22/23: 81
Arsenal 23/24: 80
Liverpool 24/25: 82
https://x.com/The_Mighty_Mojo/status/1919815991942414405
A) Military commander
B Politician who insisted on more divisions.
C) Organised the lynch pin of rear area defence
D) Kept Eisenhower on his toes by wanting his job so obviously.
I would have thought that if someone other than Man City had the title sewn up with three games to go having secured 88pts the following season, Klopp would have felt as exasperated as Arteta does now.
The 97 points season one still haunts me, I know we won the Champions League that season, but when you hit 97 points and don't win the title I was convinced Liverpool would never win the title.
There was a run of games in the 2018/19 and 2019/20 seasons when we won 110 points out 114 points, that’s 38 games played, 36 wins, and 2 draws.
That was some of the best football ever played.
https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/17/sunder-katwala-what-happens-to-the-politics-of-immigration-when-numbers-start-falling/
We’re going to see a significant fall in the numbers over the next two ONS updates .
If they also stop the boats pretty much outright then it might be enough. I have my doubts they can achieve this. They are so fixated on growth and the easiest way to boost growth is the cheap calories of immigration. See this recent India deal. That doesn’t sound like a government wanting to majorly crush migration stats
Firstly, the higher income thresholds mean fewer people will get working visas than used to be the case.
Secondly, there has been a big crackdown on student visas issued.
Thirdly, we're about to anniversary the first year of really high student numbers, and even if only 40% of them go home, that'll still be quite a big negative contributor to total numbers.
Yvette Cooper was not informed about govt's plans to make it cheaper for Indian workers to come to UK as part of the free trade deal, @kiranstacey @elenicourea report in their story tonight.
Home Sec was left in the dark over controversial elements of agreement which will mean Indian workers and companies avoiding national insurance, even as those on British employers are being hiked.
Home Office officials said to have been confused by process of agreeing the deal, having expected to be informed about anything which could increase migration to UK.
The function of the government of the United Kingdom is to preserve, protect and defend its people, institutions and the Crown. It is not to enrich the populations of other countries. As I keep saying: they don't know how to fly the plane.
At first sight this deal looks like a win-win, including the agreement to exempt Indian workers from social security contributions in the UK (and vice versa).
This appears to be a standard agreement to avoid double taxation for people working here temporarily, just like we already have with many other countries.
Without it, Indian workers and their employers in the UK have to pay social security contributions in both the UK and India, even though they are not eligible for all the benefits (especially the state pension) that National Insurance gets you.
What's more, the worker/employer will still have to pay Indian social security contributions, which are similar to those in the UK, as well as other additional costs including visa/sponsorship fees and the NHS surcharge.
So this deal alone will not allow Indian workers to 'undercut' British ones, especially as visa numbers will still be limited. Instead, it creates a level playing field between the two, which is surely a good thing?
I stand ready to be corrected, but does anyone think I'm wrong on this? 🤔
https://x.com/julianhjessop/status/1919815453565694071?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
ps. whatever you think of the arguments here, the fact that people who follow this stuff far more closely than me have so many different views also underlines just how awful Labour's comms have been! 🙄
https://x.com/julianhjessop/status/1919822793039806638?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
Anti-immigration feeling is driven more by cultural change than numbers as far as I can see, and short of reviving the "If they are Black, send them back" NF slogan not a feeling that will be easily satisfied.
I don't know the details of this trade deal. It may be a good or bad thing. I do know that radical right trolls, here and elsewhere, are mischaracterising it, as they lie about most things. It's the same approach Trump and the Republicans took.
That doesn't mean we need to lower the level of NI for Indian immigrants
The numbers of GP appointments both face to face and online used to be published on the DoH website, so should be fairly easy to analyse.
However it’s important to note
1. This is the daily mail
And
2. 5000 of these people might be me, bored with a cold
WWII trivia question - what was the greatest reduction in rank, in the British Army?
NEW: Tulsi Gabbard, now the US director of national intelligence, used the same easily cracked password for different online accounts including a personal Gmail account and Dropbox over a period of years, leaked records reviewed by WIRED reveal.
https://bsky.app/profile/wired.com/post/3lojmigx7zk23
The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and to UK firms' workers transferred to India. Social security contributions will be paid by employers and employees in their home country only, rather than in both places.'
So for all those British workers heading for the big job in India at less than UK minimum wage it is a great outcome (unless they get some plum job like adviser to an Indian billionaire in Mumbai)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo