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The age cohorts least likely to be conscripted are the most in favour of conscription

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,731
    kinabalu said:

    Yes, I know you think this. And you may be right. Let's see how it pans out. But as of now I'm not ready to join the PB consensus that it's a monstrosity.
    Aside from I have actual expertise in the area…

    From previous encounters with regulation that raises barriers, pointlessly, for small entrants…. Nothing will change. Forcing a small cycling forum to close doesn’t register with government. The big guys *like* barriers to entry.

    It’s the same in building. Every year the door steps of paper get heavier. Now AI generated, often.

    Actually site safety is getting worse. And firms are hiding injuries - “if you tell them this happened on the site, we will not pay your wages you are owed.”

    So the big corporates will carry on selling radicalisation, porn made from actual crimes etc etc.

    But at least OFCOM can have a shiny new office. Full of people bustling around in circles. So that’s good.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,899
    BillyLiar said:

    Completely off topic, but at the weekend I went to see NeZha 2 (pronounced, roughly, 'Nerjar'), the animated Chinese film that is blitzing the all-time box office list, and is now up to fifth on the highest-grossers list, just behind Titanic. The film has only been out for eight weeks.

    I was looking forward to sniffing out clunky propaganda moments, but - despite the Little Pinks on the Chinese internet lauding the film's patriotism - there really aren't any. In truth, it's a superb movie. In the subtitled version, it's easy to follow plotlines (based loosely on Chinese mythology) and the visuals are richly impressive on the big screen. It's funny and moving too, and concludes with an extended battle sequence that (apparently) features 200 million individually rendered characters (AI did its bit, along with 4,000 animators). For scale, just imagine the whole population of Brazil beating the shit out of each other.

    But there was one surprising element of the film worth commenting on. The takeaway message was pretty much: do your own thing; follow your heart; ignore the advice of elderly pontificators. That's in part aligned with a key theme in mythology throughout the world - cheeky rebels good, musty authority bad - but there is more to it than that, and the message has really resonated with Chinese Gen Zs, who have embraced the film enthusiastically. After the early-life prison tariff that is the Chinese education system, so many have reached their early 20s with nothing - high rents, no jobs, zero expectations. The film obviously has official backing, so the censors must have got wind of the discontent amongst this demographic and allowed the film to sound this note of solidarity with the audience. This an unsual change and a potentially hopeful moment. And even if it isn't, it's an effing great piece of cinema.

    I really want to see a dubbed version (with the lips synched up with AI) of "The Wandering Earth 2", which nobody but me has heard of. Apart from a billion Chinese, of course.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited March 18
    I was struck by how little was actually said in the announcement by Liz Kendall. It was all quite brief really, I think done and dusted in 20 mins. Lots of Tories bad, we won't do what they proposed, but not a huge amount of detail.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,270
    Scott_xP said:

    @samstein

    Remarkably telling new ad from VoteVets targeting vulnerable House Rs. The spot focuses solely on Musk cutting VA services. it doesn't once mention Trump

    https://x.com/samstein/status/1901976514335260769

    To get you to the actual ad quicker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL_6LpDeEw4
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,187
    Scott_xP said:

    IIRC the actor that played Godfrey fought in WW1
    He also wrote "The Ghost Train".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,240
    The thesis is falsified

    The IT Crowd, Black Books, Spaced and others only address class obliquely if at all

    I think it WAS true that class pervaded nearly all UK comedy, not any more
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,227
    MaxPB said:

    Hamas literally just had to hand over the hostages and dead bodies and this wouldn't be happening. Why aren't you blaming Hamas?
    If you think handing over the hostages would have stopped the Israelis doing this then I have a very rickety bridge to sell you. Even they aren't pretending that is the case. Look at their news conference this morning where they outlined the aims of this renewed bombimg and shelling. Yes they mention the hostages - who I think are now unlikely ever to be released given Israel's actions today - but they also fall back on the aims from before the cease fire. Destroy the Hamas command and control structure and target their weapons dumps and fighters.

    I doubt very much that Netenyahu ever had any intention of honouring the cease fire - neither did Hamas. But the idea that handing over the hostages would have stopped this attack is just bollocks.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited March 18

    If you think handing over the hostages would have stopped the Israelis doing this then I have a very rickety bridge to sell you. Even they aren't pretending that is the case. Look at their news conference this morning where they outlined the aims of this renewed bombimg and shelling. Yes they mention the hostages - who I think are now unlikely ever to be released given Israel's actions today - but they also fall back on the aims from before the cease fire. Destroy the Hamas command and control structure and target their weapons dumps and fighters.

    I doubt very much that Netenyahu ever had any intention of honouring the cease fire - neither did Hamas. But the idea that handing over the hostages would have stopped this attack is just bollocks.

    Are there any hostages to even hand over? Hamas struggled towards the end of the first phase, missing one deadline where they clearly couldn't find the number of required alive hostages. It seemed like they even struggled for bodies as well.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,187

    I think of the chap I knew, years back, who looked at the idea of building a factory in the U.K. vs Far East.

    He got the distinct impression that for a lot of people, in some deprived areas, new jobs and businesses were not wanted.
    Not just the people. I remember seeing a letter from a Government Ministry to a German company wanting to build a factory in Swansea that effectively said "Fuck off, and take your green jobs with you..." That was certainy how it was interpeted.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,973
    edited March 18

    Well yes, but the lower middle class see him as a posho. And he starts off himself seeing himself better than them and especially working class e.g. the work experience episode.

    IMO, the setup does revolve around differences in perception and reality in class.
    Yeah, fair enough. In hindsight, I agree with you.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,227

    Are there any hostages to even hand over? Hamas struggled towards the end of the first phase, missing one deadline where they clearly couldn't find the number of required alive hostages. It seemed like they even struggled for bodies as well.
    Quite poossibly. Who decided how many there were I wonder? Was it Israel just believing that everyone unaccounted for must be a hostage? Did Hamas ever present a list? Who knows.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited March 18
    Leon said:

    The thesis is falsified

    The IT Crowd, Black Books, Spaced and others only address class obliquely if at all

    I think it WAS true that class pervaded nearly all UK comedy, not any more

    Has the golden age of UK comedy passed? Is there anything up there with Office, Phoenix Nights, InBetweeners, IT Crowd, Peep Show, etc currently? The fact a one off Gavin and Stacey was the biggest thing in comedy all year by miles and Mrs Brown Boys keeps getting renewed sort of indicates that perhaps things aren't that healthy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,240
    I’m literally here. In the most boring country in the Americas. Possibly the world. Uruguay

    At least it can only surprise on the upside
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,673
    edited March 18
    Leon said:

    Also The Office: only tangentially touches on class

    Much more about the hopelessness of all young British life. Cheerfully

    Apologies, coming to this late so may be rehashing old ground, but can't resist an interlude on sitcoms - the greatest of all British artforms:

    Best sitcoms of the last 60 years, OTTOMH:
    Dad's Army - some jokes about class in there but not the central tenet of the show.
    Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads - almost 100% about class, albeit from a specifically Northern perspective. (Ditto I Never Knew You Cared)
    Porridge - Not really about class at all
    The Young Ones - Ditto
    Yes Minister - sort of about class
    Ever Decreasing Circles - very much a middleclass-com, but not really much about class in there.
    One Foot in the Grace - ditto. (Although slightly incongruously, Victor was a security guard at the start.)
    Father Ted - sui generis, and really Irish rather than British.
    The Royle Family - touches on class but not the basis of the humour.
    The Office - see Leon's comment above.
    The IT crowd -again, not really.
    Car Share - arguably? You have to be very well attuned to the nuances of Northern class to spot it though.
    Detectorists - not really about class.


    So I'm not convinced.


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,187

    Are there any hostages to even hand over? Hamas struggled towards the end of the first phase, missing one deadline where they clearly couldn't find the number of required alive hostages. It seemed like they even struggled for bodies as well.
    I believe Israel is taking the view that there are no live hostages left to hand over. Those tortured by Hamas will have been killed to stop them telling their stories to the world on release.

    Hamas can now say "well, they were alive, until you killed them in these new strikes." Which might even have been true. I can imagine Hamas keeing them close to the leadership for this very reason. There is a terrible cynicism at play on both sides.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    “This is a significant reform package that is expected to save over £5 billion in 2029/30 and the OBR will set out their final assessment of the costings next week,”
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,791
    TimS said:

    The best sitcoms had proper depth to multiple characters. There are at least 5 or 6 three dimensional characters in Dad’s Army before you get into the more thinly drawn ones.

    I feel quite similar about Allo-Allo, but not so much for three dimensional characters- most are deliberately absurd and stereotypical- but for the depth and diversity of the stereotypes.

    Among the French characters in particular we have so many recognisable types: the harassed but benign Rene, the grating-voiced matriarch Edith, the pompous pillar of the community M. Alfonse, the saucy maids - and each of those two represent slightly different French archetypes - and the 1968-coded resistance fighter. And there are several very stereotypical yet each very different versions of Germanness on display.
    Dad's Army, Allo Allo, even It Ain't Half Hot Mum also had quite solid backgrounds. Sometimes I jokingly call them documentaries but they were well-grounded so that if you look past the jokes you can see how things really were in wartime Britain, France or India.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,673
    Dura_Ace said:

    Incredibly based take.
    Do you mean 'biased'? If so, what is your take? I haven't seen or even heard of the film but I quite enjoyed @BillyLiar 's report.
  • BillyLiarBillyLiar Posts: 4


    Incredibly based take.

    Biased? If you mean I'm biased towards good films, you've got me there fella, guilty as charged.

    If you don't mean that, what are you talking about?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,973
    Cookie said:

    Do you mean 'biased'? If so, what is your take? I haven't seen or even heard of the film but I quite enjoyed @BillyLiar 's report.
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=based
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,187

    I was struck by how little was actually said in the announcement by Liz Kendall. It was all quite brief really, I think done and dusted in 20 mins. Lots of Tories bad, we won't do what they proposed, but not a huge amount of detail.

    ...because Labour is about to follow the Tory playbook.

    They will get crucified for it - not by the Tories, but by Reform.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,282

    I was struck by how little was actually said in the announcement by Liz Kendall. It was all quite brief really, I think done and dusted in 20 mins. Lots of Tories bad, we won't do what they proposed, but not a huge amount of detail.

    What I took from it was:

    1) They will bring back F2F assessments, (which will help weed out bogus claimants)
    2) They are increasing the eligibility criteria (so some current claimants won't be able to claim any more)
    3) They are making it harder for young people to claim (to stop young people going straight from school to benefits)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,615

    If you think handing over the hostages would have stopped the Israelis doing this then I have a very rickety bridge to sell you. Even they aren't pretending that is the case. Look at their news conference this morning where they outlined the aims of this renewed bombimg and shelling. Yes they mention the hostages - who I think are now unlikely ever to be released given Israel's actions today - but they also fall back on the aims from before the cease fire. Destroy the Hamas command and control structure and target their weapons dumps and fighters.

    I doubt very much that Netenyahu ever had any intention of honouring the cease fire - neither did Hamas. But the idea that handing over the hostages would have stopped this attack is just bollocks.

    The belligerents couldn't reach agreement on continuing the ceasefire so hostilities commenced.

    There's war for you.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,615

    Has the golden age of UK comedy passed? Is there anything up there with Office, Phoenix Nights, InBetweeners, IT Crowd, Peep Show, etc currently? The fact a one off Gavin and Stacey was the biggest thing in comedy all year by miles and Mrs Brown Boys keeps getting renewed sort of indicates that perhaps things aren't that healthy.
    Some cracking US comedy shows now, or being aired now, taking over, perhaps, from the golden age of drama. Shrinking, Ted Lasso, The Kominsky Method, Platonic, etc
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,502
    edited March 18

    Aside from I have actual expertise in the area…

    From previous encounters with regulation that raises barriers, pointlessly, for small entrants…. Nothing will change. Forcing a small cycling forum to close doesn’t register with government. The big guys *like* barriers to entry.

    It’s the same in building. Every year the door steps of paper get heavier. Now AI generated, often.

    Actually site safety is getting worse. And firms are hiding injuries - “if you tell them this happened on the site, we will not pay your wages you are owed.”

    So the big corporates will carry on selling radicalisation, porn made from actual crimes etc etc.

    But at least OFCOM can have a shiny new office. Full of people bustling around in circles. So that’s good.
    Yep, new regs can definitely be counterproductive. Although not so much this one imo. On balance, and recognising the downsides, I support this one.

    An interesting question is how to assess the success or failure of a change. You need to compare the damage caused to the damage prevented. Unless it's incredibly obvious this isn't easy. In fact it's probably often impossible.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,282
    The Beeb are saying that the tightening of PIP eligibility will impact 1 million people
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,791
    edited March 18
    Van hits pedestrians on the Strand in London

    A van has crashed into a number of pedestrians on the Strand in central London, the Metropolitan Police has confirmed.

    Police said the incident, which happened close to the entrance to King's College London at approximately 11:50 GMT, was not terror related.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8ypjyv3ymo
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,075
    Forsa / Germany

    Union 27%
    AfD 23%
    SPD 14%
    Green 12%
    Left 11%
    FDP 4%
    BSW 3%
    Others 6%

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,673

    Best comedy in recent years from the UK is Friday Night Dinner.

    Not really about class but family.

    I ought to like Friday Night Dinner - but it just didn't land with me.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,615
    edited March 18
    BillyLiar said:

    Biased? If you mean I'm biased towards good films, you've got me there fella, guilty as charged.

    If you don't mean that, what are you talking about?

    Just be thankful Dura didn't mention crankshafts in his comment.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,354
    Dura_Ace said:

    Yes, until recently. It was primarily used as a pension bumping bribe to get people out with no fuss.

    I got promoted to Commander on my very last day of service to get rid of me because they were concerned that I was going to top myself on MoD property which would have caused a great deal of unwelcome and tiresome paperwork.
    Being Commander Bond would definitely have made me much cheerier too.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,075
    edited March 18
    Leon said:

    I’m literally here. In the most boring country in the Americas. Possibly the world. Uruguay

    At least it can only surprise on the upside

    Beloved of provincial middle-class German tourists. Might explain it, lol.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,240

    Has the golden age of UK comedy passed? Is there anything up there with Office, Phoenix Nights, InBetweeners, IT Crowd, Peep Show, etc currently? The fact a one off Gavin and Stacey was the biggest thing in comedy all year by miles and Mrs Brown Boys keeps getting renewed sort of indicates that perhaps things aren't that healthy.
    Absolutely passed. It’s dismal now

    It’s also passed in the USA but their golden age was more recent
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131

    The Beeb are saying that the tightening of PIP eligibility will impact 1 million people

    Sounds like "tightening" might be a bit of an understatement.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,077

    If you think handing over the hostages would have stopped the Israelis doing this then I have a very rickety bridge to sell you. Even they aren't pretending that is the case. Look at their news conference this morning where they outlined the aims of this renewed bombimg and shelling. Yes they mention the hostages - who I think are now unlikely ever to be released given Israel's actions today - but they also fall back on the aims from before the cease fire. Destroy the Hamas command and control structure and target their weapons dumps and fighters.

    I doubt very much that Netenyahu ever had any intention of honouring the cease fire - neither did Hamas. But the idea that handing over the hostages would have stopped this attack is just bollocks.

    If one were cynical one might think it suits Netanyahu that the hostages are now a lost cause, a perpetually festering sore to be displayed to the world along with all the others.

    From my brief listen to the news the hostages’ families are very angry, not that Bibi cares much.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,358
    Cookie said:

    I ought to like Friday Night Dinner - but it just didn't land with me.
    I was in absolute tears when [redacted] passed away.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,077
    edited March 18
    BillyLiar said:



    Biased? If you mean I'm biased towards good films, you've got me there fella, guilty as charged.

    If you don't mean that, what are you talking about?

    Based not biased. Yer good..
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,367
    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1901988045554872777

    Macron is reportedly resisting British defence companies being included in the 800 billion rearmament plan for Europe.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,731

    Van hits pedestrians on the Strand in London

    A van has crashed into a number of pedestrians on the Strand in central London, the Metropolitan Police has confirmed.

    Police said the incident, which happened close to the entrance to King's College London at approximately 11:50 GMT, was not terror related.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8ypjyv3ymo

    Van driver who doesn’t know how to drive, part XXXVIII
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,731
    kinabalu said:

    Yep, new regs can definitely be counterproductive. Although not so much this one imo. On balance, and recognising the downsides, I support this one.

    An interesting question is how to assess the success or failure of a change. You need to compare the damage caused to the damage prevented. Unless it's incredibly obvious this isn't easy. In fact it's probably often impossible.
    It’s simple. Regulation costs. Therefore, if there isn’t an identifiable improvement, it’s a fuck up.

    The resistance to this idea is from those who get all excited by clipboards and rules.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,282

    ...because Labour is about to follow the Tory playbook.

    They will get crucified for it - not by the Tories, but by Reform.
    I suspect the Reform line will be that if we need to save money on benefits then focus first on migrants, child benefit being sent abroad etc etc
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,973

    It’s simple. Regulation costs. Therefore, if there isn’t an identifiable improvement, it’s a fuck up.

    The resistance to this idea is from those who get all excited by clipboards and rules.
    As a construction lawyer, I agree.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,436

    Has the golden age of UK comedy passed? Is there anything up there with Office, Phoenix Nights, InBetweeners, IT Crowd, Peep Show, etc currently? The fact a one off Gavin and Stacey was the biggest thing in comedy all year by miles and Mrs Brown Boys keeps getting renewed sort of indicates that perhaps things aren't that healthy.
    Two more obscure ones from the 80s that hardly anybody ever mentions, but I'd take over any of those (except maybe the IT Crowd):

    Hot Metal - a brilliant satire on tabloid journalism
    Happy Families - about a psychopathic grandmother and her brainless grandson trying to reassemble her granddaughters from around the world to harvest their organs.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,367

    I suspect the Reform line will be that if we need to save money on benefits then focus first on migrants, child benefit being sent abroad etc etc
    Otherwise known as common sense.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,673

    I was in absolute tears when [redacted] passed away.
    Comedy can do that. It touches you in ways drama can't.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,973

    Otherwise known as common sense.
    Only if it's a meaningful sum.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 619
    viewcode said:

    I really want to see a dubbed version (with the lips synched up with AI) of "The Wandering Earth 2", which nobody but me has heard of. Apart from a billion Chinese, of course.
    WE1 was terrible. Hope WE2 is a lot better.

    Their Wolf Warrior films are quite good - a Chinese copy of a lot a US Seal/Ranger movies
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,270

    Otherwise known as common sense.
    https://www.davidsonmorris.com/immigrants-economic-contributions/

    Research indicates that immigrants paid approximately £20 billion in taxes in 2020, which is substantially higher than the costs associated with public services they utilise. This tax revenue is essential for funding public services and social welfare programmes that benefit all residents.

    Studies have shown that the tax contributions made by immigrants generally outweigh the public service costs incurred. According to the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration (CReAM), immigrants from outside the EU contributed about £4.6 billion more in taxes than they received in benefits and public services. Even among EU immigrants, the net fiscal contribution remains positive, although slightly less pronounced.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,359
    @peterbakernyt

    Trump declares that it constitutes a high crime and misdemeanor worthy of impeachment for a federal judge to rule against him.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,720
    TOPPING said:

    The belligerents couldn't reach agreement on continuing the ceasefire so hostilities commenced.

    There's war for you.
    Given the enormous disparities in firepower and casualties, I'd suggest that "hostilities and ""war" aren't really suitable terms. "Slaughter" and "genocide" would appear to be more fitting.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    edited March 18

    “This is a significant reform package that is expected to save over £5 billion in 2029/30 and the OBR will set out their final assessment of the costings next week,”

    That’s not far off from being in the roundings.

    The pitiful young wastrel claimant just interviewed on R4 WATO did nothing to persuade listeners that we aren’t just wasting a shedload of public finances.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,187
    Fishing said:

    Two more obscure ones from the 80s that hardly anybody ever mentions, but I'd take over any of those (except maybe the IT Crowd):

    Hot Metal - a brilliant satire on tabloid journalism
    Happy Families - about a psychopathic grandmother and her brainless grandson trying to reassemble her granddaughters from around the world to harvest their organs.
    Hot Metal in the shadow of Drop The Dead Donkey.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,077

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1901988045554872777

    Macron is reportedly resisting British defence companies being included in the 800 billion rearmament plan for Europe.

    As someone recently said, we don’t have the cards right now. Even the state visit Trump card is looking a bit shit.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,786
    edited March 18

    Liz Kendall just complained about too many Tory consultations before announcing another new consultation....

    Kendall plans to save £5bn a year by 2030. To get the scale of this, the government has set aside £12bn for the infected blood scandal. It is tiny in the the great scheme of things, but is £1000 pa for 5 million people - so it's tiny and massive at the same time.

    And as always, all welfare systems will get dislocated on the question, impossible for administrators to ask in the modern world, but which working class communities have strong feelings about, of distinguishing between the deserving and the undeserving recipients.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,791

    Van driver who doesn’t know how to drive, part XXXVIII
    Coked off his tits maybe. One young woman dead, two pedestrians in hospital.

    The driver of the van, a 26-year-old man, was arrested at the scene on suspicion of causing death by careless driving and driving with a concentration of a specified controlled drug above the specified limit.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8ypjyv3ymo
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,187

    https://www.davidsonmorris.com/immigrants-economic-contributions/

    Research indicates that immigrants paid approximately £20 billion in taxes in 2020, which is substantially higher than the costs associated with public services they utilise. This tax revenue is essential for funding public services and social welfare programmes that benefit all residents.

    Studies have shown that the tax contributions made by immigrants generally outweigh the public service costs incurred. According to the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration (CReAM), immigrants from outside the EU contributed about £4.6 billion more in taxes than they received in benefits and public services. Even among EU immigrants, the net fiscal contribution remains positive, although slightly less pronounced.
    Sounding rather coy about the actual benefit of EU immigrants' contribution there...

    Give us the numbers!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,502
    edited March 18

    It’s simple. Regulation costs. Therefore, if there isn’t an identifiable improvement, it’s a fuck up.

    The resistance to this idea is from those who get all excited by clipboards and rules.
    Not quite as simple as that. Eg there might be tangible benefits but they are exceeded by the cost. That probably means don't do it. Or the benefits could be huge but intangible. That might mean it's a goer even though you can't prove it.

    But anyway, with the OSA, your view is what. That there are no benefits? Or that there are but they are difficult to measure?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,411

    The Detectorists (which is great) maybe?
    Gavin and Stacey (which isn’t).
    Is detectorists comedy? Don't get me wrong - I love it, but I'm not sure I'd class it as comedy.

    Where does Ghosts fall?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,631
    Leon said:

    Absolutely passed. It’s dismal now

    It’s also passed in the USA but their golden age was more recent
    The same phenomenon we see with pop music and general TV though. When we remember the past we only remember the best stuff. We then compare it with the whole spectrum of material that’s out there currently.

    There was plenty of bilge in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. Probably a lower floor back then, and possibly a higher ceiling.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,354

    For France, its main proponent, the EU Army was always about spending German Euros in French arms factories, and had very little to do with defence.
    I'm not sure why British defence companies should be included, unless they're making something indispensable or of a far higher quality than EU companies can provide.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,786
    IanB2 said:

    That’s not far off from being in the roundings.

    The pitiful young wastrel claimant just interviewed on R4 WATO did nothing to persuade listeners that we aren’t just wasting shedload of public finances.
    I accept that the BBC needs to be balanced but over many years I have never heard a news programme like WATO discuss in any detail or at all cases where large quantities of public money go in benefits to people because they are feckless wasters who prefer to live off other people working.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,673

    Hot Metal in the shadow of Drop The Dead Donkey.
    On the subject of forgotten gems from the 80s, I would advance Chance in a Million.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,973

    I'm not sure why British defence companies should be included, unless they're making something indispensable or of a far higher quality than EU companies can provide.
    It's not that they should, but rather that it would be better for our economy if they were.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,631

    Is detectorists comedy? Don't get me wrong - I love it, but I'm not sure I'd class it as comedy.

    Where does Ghosts fall?
    Detectorists is surely comedy drama, like Fleabag.

    Among recent comedies, Motherland - which I expect is mainly popular among people who recognise the milieu ie parents of school age children - is definitely heavily about class, as is the spinoff Amandaland.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,411

    Has the golden age of UK comedy passed? Is there anything up there with Office, Phoenix Nights, InBetweeners, IT Crowd, Peep Show, etc currently? The fact a one off Gavin and Stacey was the biggest thing in comedy all year by miles and Mrs Brown Boys keeps getting renewed sort of indicates that perhaps things aren't that healthy.
    I love Not Going Out, which has a superb ensemble, but even that is getting past it now.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,815
    ...
    Leon said:

    Absolutely passed. It’s dismal now

    It’s also passed in the USA but their golden age was more recent
    Upstart Crow, Mum and Motherland are very good. Not so keen on Amandaland but my wife thinks it hilarious.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    edited March 18
    Tesla stock sinking again today.

    Oh dear, what a shame, never mind….
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,494
    Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland withdraw from the Ottawa convention on anti-personnel land mines. Finland to follow soon.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,673

    Is detectorists comedy? Don't get me wrong - I love it, but I'm not sure I'd class it as comedy.

    Where does Ghosts fall?
    Ghosts is ok, but definitely feels post-golden-age. Everything in it is good, but it somehow feels less than the sum of its parts. But I have only seen about 5 episodes so maybe it is worth sticking with.

    Detectorists absolutely is comedy. It's extremely slow paced, but that's ok.

    I'm going to stick up for Gavin and Stacey in the face of TUD's cynicism. I missed that off my list but for me it is absolutely perfect. Funnier than 99% of sitcoms, an unbeatable narrative arc, and genuine warmth and likeability. It gets looked down on because it's a crowd-pleaser, but sometimes the masses are right.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    carnforth said:

    Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland withdraw from the Ottawa convention on anti-personnel land mines. Finland to follow soon.

    The border between proper Europe and Russia is going to be made to look like the former Berlin Wall, isn’t it?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,411
    Cookie said:

    Ghosts is ok, but definitely feels post-golden-age. Everything in it is good, but it somehow feels less than the sum of its parts. But I have only seen about 5 episodes so maybe it is worth sticking with.

    Detectorists absolutely is comedy. It's extremely slow paced, but that's ok.

    I'm going to stick up for Gavin and Stacey in the face of TUD's cynicism. I missed that off my list but for me it is absolutely perfect. Funnier than 99% of sitcoms, an unbeatable narrative arc, and genuine warmth and likeability. It gets looked down on because it's a crowd-pleaser, but sometimes the masses are right.
    I'd stick with Ghosts. Eventually the back story of all the characters is revealed and it adds a lot. There are some great moments (often touching) within it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,339

    I hope the Ukrainians are watching Gaza and getting the message about how much faith they can put in US brokered ceasefires.

    "It's gonna be beautiful!"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    And the next problem for the government....

    Pharmacies to cut hours and services from April 1

    https://chemistanddruggist.co.uk/news/funding/breaking-pharmacies-to-cut-hours-and-services-from-april-1-5Y2YIQRCFNEDXM2NWLUW2J3V34/

    The @NPA1921 has announced that it is advising its 6,000 member pharmacies to limit services and reduce opening hours in protest against “unsustainable” #funding.

    https://x.com/ChemistDruggist/status/1901921123996250539
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,354
    edited March 18
    ...

    It's not that they should, but rather that it would be better for our economy if they were.
    It probably would be, but not for the EU. It would mean production of potentially key weapons sitting outside EU territory and at (moderate) risk of being requisitioned if the shit ever hit the fan, apart from the revenue going elsewhere.

    It goes without saying that we should not depend unduly on EU companies for similar reasons.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    edited March 18
    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round? Until that becomes clear, it’s a screaming sell.

    The market’s only been open half an hour and I am up another £500 already.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,411

    And the next problem for the government....

    Pharmacies to cut hours and services from April 1

    https://chemistanddruggist.co.uk/news/funding/breaking-pharmacies-to-cut-hours-and-services-from-april-1-5Y2YIQRCFNEDXM2NWLUW2J3V34/

    The @NPA1921 has announced that it is advising its 6,000 member pharmacies to limit services and reduce opening hours in protest against “unsustainable” #funding.

    https://x.com/ChemistDruggist/status/1901921123996250539

    This has been coming. At the same time as trying to get pharmacy to do more too...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,339
    Scott_xP said:

    @peterbakernyt

    Trump declares that it constitutes a high crime and misdemeanor worthy of impeachment for a federal judge to rule against him.

    USA morphs into Trumpistan...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited March 18

    This has been coming. At the same time as trying to get pharmacy to do more too...
    And of course the NI rise....the bit that Rachel from accounts seemed to forget that NI increases affect lots of these services not just horrible greedy mega corps.
  • BillyLiarBillyLiar Posts: 4


    I really want to see a dubbed version (with the lips synched up with AI) of "The Wandering Earth 2", which nobody but me has heard of. Apart from a billion Chinese, of course.



    The subtitled version had limited release in the UK, but it was less enjoyable than the first film (which itself was pretty average) and overdid the flag-waving content. The Netflix series was not great but more fun and could include all the Cultural Revolution stuff.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,791
    algarkirk said:

    I accept that the BBC needs to be balanced but over many years I have never heard a news programme like WATO discuss in any detail or at all cases where large quantities of public money go in benefits to people because they are feckless wasters who prefer to live off other people working.
    Tbh, when I was desperately searching for jobs back in the day, I wanted as many as possible to be feckless wasters.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,815

    I hope the Ukrainians are watching Gaza and getting the message about how much faith they can put in US brokered ceasefires.

    Somehow Richard I suspect Ukraine will be f***** even harder than the Palestinians by teatime today. The art of the deal, my arse.
  • IanB2 said:

    The question is what could turn Tesla’s slide of share price round?

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    edited March 18

    Musk getting banished by Trump and going into rehab?
    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,220
    Nigelb said:

    Any idea when today's German parliamentary vote on the budget will be announced ?

    3.30pm German time
  • Cookie said:

    Ghosts is ok, but definitely feels post-golden-age. Everything in it is good, but it somehow feels less than the sum of its parts. But I have only seen about 5 episodes so maybe it is worth sticking with.

    Detectorists absolutely is comedy. It's extremely slow paced, but that's ok.

    I'm going to stick up for Gavin and Stacey in the face of TUD's cynicism. I missed that off my list but for me it is absolutely perfect. Funnier than 99% of sitcoms, an unbeatable narrative arc, and genuine warmth and likeability. It gets looked down on because it's a crowd-pleaser, but sometimes the masses are right.
    Broadly agree with that.

    I'd give a shout to Toast (although that does look like it's in the past as no sign of another after Toast of Tinseltown a couple of years ago) and Everyone Else Burns.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    kamski said:

    3.30pm German time
    So only twenty minutes to wait, then?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,631
    IanB2 said:

    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,240
    Jeez. Uruguay looks and feels richer than Britain, so far


    Early days tho. I’ve been out of the airport for 17 minutes
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,211

    The Held Back areas voting Reform.

    Meaning they are going to be held back because, well, voting Reform...

    I was in Grimsby last week for a funeral. Looking around the mourners, I suspect many voted for Boris. Even more for Farage.

    Ironically, the only obvious growth area there is in 3-4 bedroom Executive houses. A truly massive boom. Where these executives are going to come from is a mystery.
    Did you give them Nobby's best line "I remember this place before it was gentrified"
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,631

    Broadly agree with that.

    I'd give a shout to Toast (although that does look like it's in the past as no sign of another after Toast of Tinseltown a couple of years ago) and Everyone Else Burns.
    What we’re missing recently is proper knockabout farces, the sort that are excruciating to watch. Motherland gets close at times but remains relatively gentle.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,411

    Broadly agree with that.

    I'd give a shout to Toast (although that does look like it's in the past as no sign of another after Toast of Tinseltown a couple of years ago) and Everyone Else Burns.
    Toast needs you to step into the surreal. If you do, it can be briliant.
    The episode where Toast cannot let go of the pillar, so it becomes part of his portrayal is superb. Add in the weird distorted portrayal of real life actors (Peter Davidson etc) and its a gem.

    "Yes I can hear you, Clem Fandango..."
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,359
    IanB2 said:

    Musk has 13% of Tesla shares, and the only obvious way out for the company is for him to sell out and the company continue with him cut loose. The question is how long it will take for them to reach the same conclusion?

    Meanwhile, their global brand is worse than Ratnered.
    Never mind, he's still got SpaceX.

    Oh...

    Musk’s impotent attempts to get his giant shiny phallus to work are the perfect metaphor for the man.

    https://www.planetearthandbeyond.co/p/starship-was-doomed-from-the-beginning
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,791
    TimS said:

    They need to get the share price down to double digits, then buy him out cheaply.
    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,631

    Musk can't sell without triggering a huge tax liability (subject to a handy law change). The way squillionaires avoid tax is by borrowing money using their stakes as collateral. No income, no capital gains.
    The Tesla patriotic tax cuts and incentives act winging its way to congress as we speak.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,731
    kinabalu said:

    Not quite as simple as that. Eg there might be tangible benefits but they are exceeded by the cost. That probably means don't do it. Or the benefits could be huge but intangible. That might mean it's a goer even though you can't prove it.

    But anyway, with the OSA, your view is what. That there are no benefits? Or that there are but they are difficult to measure?
    What are the supposed benefits of the act? Measure those.

    The moment that people start saying that the benefits are “huge but intangible”, that’s when I say “TILT”. That’s a justification for anything.

    Grinding up the unemployable to make Soyulent Green has huge, but intangible benefits. According to me.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,348
    Cookie said:

    Ghosts is ok, but definitely feels post-golden-age. Everything in it is good, but it somehow feels less than the sum of its parts. But I have only seen about 5 episodes so maybe it is worth sticking with.

    Detectorists absolutely is comedy. It's extremely slow paced, but that's ok.

    I'm going to stick up for Gavin and Stacey in the face of TUD's cynicism. I missed that off my list but for me it is absolutely perfect. Funnier than 99% of sitcoms, an unbeatable narrative arc, and genuine warmth and likeability. It gets looked down on because it's a crowd-pleaser, but sometimes the masses are right.
    Ghosts is a family favourite in our house, ditto the Goes Wrong Show. Death in Paradise is a guilty pleasure too, it's actually pretty funny. My son is a big fan of People Just Do Nothing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,697
    MaxPB said:

    Hamas literally just had to hand over the hostages and dead bodies and this wouldn't be happening. Why aren't you blaming Hamas?
    While that's half true, there's no great evidence that Netanyahu wouldn't have done this anyway.
    He did after all say thaf he reserved the right to resume the war after all hostages had been returned.
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