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Breaking: Reform – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197

    As per the last thread, I must say the more I look at Vance, the more worrying the future of America looks.

    Look at Thiel, Musk and Vance's seeming mentor. He says fhat "democracy and freedom are incompatible. Then you have other figures like Andreesen and Nick Land, in a cluster of techno-supremacists. Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin are perhaps the two most worrying intellectual influences on Musk and Vance of all, as explicit anti-democrats.

    Yarvin makes every political nutter you ever encountered look sane.
    And he is weirdly influential in Washington.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,445
    edited March 7
    kle4 said:

    As per the last thread, I must say the more I look at Vance, the more worrying the future of America looks.

    Look at Thiel, Musk and Vance's seeming mentor. He says fhat "democracy and freedom are incompatible. Then you have other figures like Andreesen and Nick Land, in a cluster of techno-supremacists. Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin are perhaps the two most worrying intellectual influences on Musk and Vance of all, as explicit anti-democrats.

    He means that democracy for the 99% is incompatible with freedom for the 1%.
    Indeed. We really are in the age where tech billionaires think they are gods.
    In much the same way autocrats in places like China probably read dystopian fiction and use it as a manual, the techbros read cautionary tales about the excesses of corporation run futures and AIs controlling human civilization and decide 'Yes, that sounds great'.
    The tech bros have become successful in a sector where the winner takes all. Where the business with the deepest pockets and widest global reach becomes a monopoly, and enjoys untrammelled power. Where the logic is that a successful small enterprise must be bought and subsumed by its bigger peers, and where the American way is the only way. With an exception made for the Chinese.

    Big tech is very different from most other sectors in that respect. It’s not surprising that their attitude to political power tends to the monopolistic too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    As per the last thread, I must say the more I look at Vance, the more worrying the future of America looks.

    Look at Thiel, Musk and Vance's seeming mentor. He says fhat "democracy and freedom are incompatible. Then you have other figures like Andreesen and Nick Land, in a cluster of techno-supremacists. Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin are perhaps the two most worrying intellectual influences on Musk and Vance of all, as explicit anti-democrats.

    He means that democracy for the 99% is incompatible with freedom for the 1%.
    Indeed. We really are in the age where tech billionaires think they are gods.
    In much the same way autocrats in places like China probably read dystopian fiction and use it as a manual, the techbros read cautionary tales about the excesses of corporation run futures and AIs controlling human civilization and decide 'Yes, that sounds great'.
    "Tech Company: At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from classic sci-fi novel "Don't Create The Torment Nexus""
    Musk and Zuckerberg seem particular prone to this type of thing. Bezos seems more like he just wants to own as much as possible, treat people as slaves and work them to death, much more traditional, whereas they go in more for the change the world, mess with the human mind and experience kind of deal.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769
    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    edited March 7
    MaxPB said:



    Those carbon capture billions must be looking pretty doomed...

    Fingers crossed, £22bn is 8-12 new boats/subs or 100+ fighter jets or a bunch of tanks and amphibious transports.

    £22bn for carbon capture is a gigantic piss away of money.
    Much of that money was due to come from energy bill levies, so don’t bank on it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    TimS said:

    kle4 said:

    As per the last thread, I must say the more I look at Vance, the more worrying the future of America looks.

    Look at Thiel, Musk and Vance's seeming mentor. He says fhat "democracy and freedom are incompatible. Then you have other figures like Andreesen and Nick Land, in a cluster of techno-supremacists. Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin are perhaps the two most worrying intellectual influences on Musk and Vance of all, as explicit anti-democrats.

    He means that democracy for the 99% is incompatible with freedom for the 1%.
    Indeed. We really are in the age where tech billionaires think they are gods.
    In much the same way autocrats in places like China probably read dystopian fiction and use it as a manual, the techbros read cautionary tales about the excesses of corporation run futures and AIs controlling human civilization and decide 'Yes, that sounds great'.
    The tech bros have become successful in a sector where the winner takes all. Where the business with the deepest pockets and widest global reach becomes a monopoly, and enjoys untrammelled power. Where the logic is that a successful small enterprise must be bought and subsumed by its bigger peers, and where the American way is the only way. With an exception made for the Chinese.

    Big tech is very different from most other sectors in that respect. It’s not surprising that their attitude to political power tends to the monopolistic too.
    They've done some great things the techbros, but I like when financebros, hunting the next big tech thing, pour money into non-tech things hoping they will be scalable in the same way.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    edited March 7
    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,445
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    As per the last thread, I must say the more I look at Vance, the more worrying the future of America looks.

    Look at Thiel, Musk and Vance's seeming mentor. He says fhat "democracy and freedom are incompatible. Then you have other figures like Andreesen and Nick Land, in a cluster of techno-supremacists. Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin are perhaps the two most worrying intellectual influences on Musk and Vance of all, as explicit anti-democrats.

    He means that democracy for the 99% is incompatible with freedom for the 1%.
    Indeed. We really are in the age where tech billionaires think they are gods.
    In much the same way autocrats in places like China probably read dystopian fiction and use it as a manual, the techbros read cautionary tales about the excesses of corporation run futures and AIs controlling human civilization and decide 'Yes, that sounds great'.
    "Tech Company: At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from classic sci-fi novel "Don't Create The Torment Nexus""
    Musk and Zuckerberg seem particular prone to this type of thing. Bezos seems more like he just wants to own as much as possible, treat people as slaves and work them to death, much more traditional, whereas they go in more for the change the world, mess with the human mind and experience kind of deal.
    Bezos looks like a Bond villain whereas Zuckerberg looks like Chris from Coldplay. Musk looks like, well, an Afrikaner. None is avuncular. No tech billionaire does avuncular, not even Gates.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    It's a mystery why Russia thinks it can get favourable terms.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,672
    edited March 7
    kle4 said:

    It's a mystery why Russia thinks it can get favourable terms.

    It's what Edward VIII advised Hitler to do.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249

    Details of Labour’s cuts to welfare have been leaked.

    Will go down badly with the faithful but I suspect but will be more popular with the country at large.

    My guess is, it will be like Attlee cutting welfare to fund the Korean War.

    People will moan, but history will view it kindly.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,445
    edited March 7
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    They’ve not learned. This article shows that even the rebels haven’t learned.

    Everyone is competing to win the misery cup. It’s what did for Rachel Reeves (and consumer confidence) last year. It’s what risks doing for the Tories, and Reform now.

    You want to live the same life your parents had? Well bloody cheer up. Yes we have a thug in the White House, war on our doorstep and environmental meltdown, but let’s be honest we’re a successful developed economy, with high life expectancy, high levels of education, relatively low levels of crime, passports that’ll take us to most of the world with ease, and a pretty strong brand and reputation internationally. It’s not that bad.

    We need a bit of cheer and optimism and hope. The first politician that grasps this (Boris at least attempted to, and before him Blair) has a huge potential vote to harvest.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,869
    Nigelb said:

    As per the last thread, I must say the more I look at Vance, the more worrying the future of America looks.

    Look at Thiel, Musk and Vance's seeming mentor. He says fhat "democracy and freedom are incompatible. Then you have other figures like Andreesen and Nick Land, in a cluster of techno-supremacists. Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin are perhaps the two most worrying intellectual influences on Musk and Vance of all, as explicit anti-democrats.

    Yarvin makes every political nutter you ever encountered look sane.
    And he is weirdly influential in Washington.
    Yes, a thoroughbred fascist loon. He seems to be the traditionalist, "white Russian" buttressing for Thiel's anti-democratic, technofuturist vision.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    TimS said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    They’ve not learned. This article shows that even the rebels haven’t learned.

    Everyone is competing to win the misery cup. It’s what did for Rachel Reeves (and consumer confidence) last year. It’s what risks doing for the Tories, and Reform now.

    You want to live the same life your parents had? Well bloody cheer up. Yes we have a thug in the White House, war on our doorstep and environmental meltdown, but let’s be honest we’re a successful developed economy, with high life expectancy, high levels of education, relatively low levels of crime, passports that’ll take us to most of the world with ease, and a pretty strong brand and reputation internationally. It’s not that bad.

    We need a bit of cheer and optimism and hope. The first politician that grasps this (Boris at least attempted to, and before him Blair) has a huge potential vote to harvest.
    I agree to a degree, but things do seem to have genuinely taken a turn - when the gloomsters were trying to unpick Boris's slightly more optimistic tone, it didn't really work as things didn't seem that bad for many people.

    But now? What I've referred to as 'low grade crappiness' is pretty pervasive, and I don't think it's just imagination. We seem to pay loads but get poorly working stuff in return, and constantly in need of more money which we apparently don't have. It wears you down.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    As per the last thread, I must say the more I look at Vance, the more worrying the future of America looks.

    Look at Thiel, Musk and Vance's seeming mentor. He says fhat "democracy and freedom are incompatible. Then you have other figures like Andreesen and Nick Land, in a cluster of techno-supremacists. Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin are perhaps the two most worrying intellectual influences on Musk and Vance of all, as explicit anti-democrats.

    He means that democracy for the 99% is incompatible with freedom for the 1%.
    Indeed. We really are in the age where tech billionaires think they are gods.
    In much the same way autocrats in places like China probably read dystopian fiction and use it as a manual, the techbros read cautionary tales about the excesses of corporation run futures and AIs controlling human civilization and decide 'Yes, that sounds great'.
    "Tech Company: At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from classic sci-fi novel "Don't Create The Torment Nexus""
    Musk and Zuckerberg seem particular prone to this type of thing. Bezos seems more like he just wants to own as much as possible, treat people as slaves and work them to death, much more traditional, whereas they go in more for the change the world, mess with the human mind and experience kind of deal.
    Musk is putting chips in people's brains. Musk is a fan of Iain M. Banks, the Scottish socialist and trade-union fan and science fiction author (I assume Musk didn't get Banks's political points). Banks wrote the novel "Surface Detail", which included the character of "Veppers"

    Veppers is the richest person in his society. He made some of his fortune by providing the hardware to run virtual Hells. A "virtual Hell" is a virtual environment involving torture et al in which the virtual recreations of the dead are tortured indefinitely.

    We don't worry enough about Musk.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,869
    TimS said:

    kle4 said:

    As per the last thread, I must say the more I look at Vance, the more worrying the future of America looks.

    Look at Thiel, Musk and Vance's seeming mentor. He says fhat "democracy and freedom are incompatible. Then you have other figures like Andreesen and Nick Land, in a cluster of techno-supremacists. Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin are perhaps the two most worrying intellectual influences on Musk and Vance of all, as explicit anti-democrats.

    He means that democracy for the 99% is incompatible with freedom for the 1%.
    Indeed. We really are in the age where tech billionaires think they are gods.
    In much the same way autocrats in places like China probably read dystopian fiction and use it as a manual, the techbros read cautionary tales about the excesses of corporation run futures and AIs controlling human civilization and decide 'Yes, that sounds great'.
    The tech bros have become successful in a sector where the winner takes all. Where the business with the deepest pockets and widest global reach becomes a monopoly, and enjoys untrammelled power. Where the logic is that a successful small enterprise must be bought and subsumed by its bigger peers, and where the American way is the only way. With an exception made for the Chinese.

    Big tech is very different from most other sectors in that respect. It’s not surprising that their attitude to political power tends to the monopolistic too.
    Read this week, their ideological monstrosity is a terrible indictment o
    Of the failure to regulate monopolies in the tech sector since 2000, and ideological neoliberalism. In fact it almost reads as a history of what happens when you let extreme neoliberalism run wild
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,869
    Read this *way*, that should be, apologies for another autocorrect.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,558
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:



    Those carbon capture billions must be looking pretty doomed...

    Fingers crossed, £22bn is 8-12 new boats/subs or 100+ fighter jets or a bunch of tanks and amphibious transports.

    £22bn for carbon capture is a gigantic piss away of money.
    Much of that money was due to come from energy bill levies, so don’t bank on it.
    Too late to stop all of it. NZT and NEP/ECC have already taken FID. That's a few billion right there.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,724
    geoffw said:

    ydoethur said:

    The Reform People’s Front are at war with the People’s Front of Reform.

    Whatever happened to the Popular Front? He’s over there - SPLITTER!!!

    In front of me I saw - two Fukkers.

    But these Fukkers were Farage and Lowe.
    Was it Fokkers at 4 o'clock?
    (Where's Biggles when you need him?)

    Nice to be wanted, but I try not to think about those particular fokkers.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,558
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    >

    If so, good. Carbon-capture is expensive, doesn't work, and makes things worse. Over 20 billion is too much. Over 20 pence would be too much. Nuke it from orbit just to be sure.

    I would be happy for the government to spend 20 pence on CCS.
    It'll buy a shoebox to bury it in. Next to the budgie. :)
    I don't think that would be classed as permanent sequestration.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665
    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    Black Sea.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,904
    Utterly shocked by the Rupert Lowe allegations. Didn't expect this sort of thing to happen with Reform UK.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,445
    edited March 7
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    They’ve not learned. This article shows that even the rebels haven’t learned.

    Everyone is competing to win the misery cup. It’s what did for Rachel Reeves (and consumer confidence) last year. It’s what risks doing for the Tories, and Reform now.

    You want to live the same life your parents had? Well bloody cheer up. Yes we have a thug in the White House, war on our doorstep and environmental meltdown, but let’s be honest we’re a successful developed economy, with high life expectancy, high levels of education, relatively low levels of crime, passports that’ll take us to most of the world with ease, and a pretty strong brand and reputation internationally. It’s not that bad.

    We need a bit of cheer and optimism and hope. The first politician that grasps this (Boris at least attempted to, and before him Blair) has a huge potential vote to harvest.
    I agree to a degree, but things do seem to have genuinely taken a turn - when the gloomsters were trying to unpick Boris's slightly more optimistic tone, it didn't really work as things didn't seem that bad for many people.

    But now? What I've referred to as 'low grade crappiness' is pretty pervasive, and I don't think it's just imagination. We seem to pay loads but get poorly working stuff in return, and constantly in need of more money which we apparently don't have. It wears you down.
    Those are practical problems though. That’s what I mean. The sort of issues politicians are there to fix. It’s not about saying everything is rosy, it’s about saying here are the things that don’t work and we have a plan to fix them.

    Whereas much of the political world, particularly on the right, is well past that and into “this country is irretrievably lost”. There’s no hope there.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,558
    And the £22 bn won't start to be spent until 2028 or so, and then be drip fed over 10 years.

    Same goes for the extra £30 billion that would be required for the rest of Track 1 and the two Track 2 clusters. Mind, I am not 100% certain that the rest of the funding will be announced any time soon.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665
    Huge win for Gove at Knapper's Dispatch as Tim Shipman formal announces he is their new Pol Ed.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665
    Andy_JS said:

    Utterly shocked by the Rupert Lowe allegations. Didn't expect this sort of thing to happen with Reform UK.

    :smirk:
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,148

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    Black Sea.
    I know the movement of military ships through the Bosphorus is covered by a treaty. Does that Treaty tie Turkey's hands. By which I mean could they decide to allow warships through from an allied country if they were so inclined?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,275
    The Guardian lamenting so much of the UK economy goes through foreign owned businesses:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/06/britain-us-uk-assets-economic-disaster-labour

    This is what you get when you have a trade deficit for a generation.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665
    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,168
    kle4 said:

    https://x.com/skynews/status/1898124977355784439

    Gene Hackman's wife died from a rare infectious disease around a week before the actor died, medical investigators have said.

    Hackman had advanced Alzheimer's and died from heart disease.

    I get it says they lived a private life, but as rich as they must have been no-one like a maid or carer support was scheduled to be there for over a week? Extremely private I guess.
    Or their kids???
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Trump has sown the wind.

    Now, let him reap the whirlwind.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,168

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Caucasus you say?

    Putin has been occupying the Abkhazia and South Ossetia regions of Georgia since 2008.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,989

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    Black Sea.
    Give Turkey Crimea.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665

    Douglas Carswell🇬🇧🇺🇸
    @DouglasCarswell
    ·
    1h
    Rupert Lowe has lost the party whip. Why am I not surprised?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    Black Sea.
    Give Turkey Crimea.
    Troll.

    :smile:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,904
    Is there any possibility of reconciliation between Farage and Lowe?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Trump has sown the wind.

    Now, let him reap the whirlwind.
    Sadly, not sure he will be the one reaping it.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,168
    edited March 7

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    Black Sea.
    I know the movement of military ships through the Bosphorus is covered by a treaty. Does that Treaty tie Turkey's hands. By which I mean could they decide to allow warships through from an allied country if they were so inclined?
    Montreux Convention

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    Why shouldn’t it?

    And, as with Britain, Turkey should hope for privileged access to the single market, too.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665

    kle4 said:

    https://x.com/skynews/status/1898124977355784439

    Gene Hackman's wife died from a rare infectious disease around a week before the actor died, medical investigators have said.

    Hackman had advanced Alzheimer's and died from heart disease.

    I get it says they lived a private life, but as rich as they must have been no-one like a maid or carer support was scheduled to be there for over a week? Extremely private I guess.
    Or their kids???
    They were found by the weekly care/help/maintenance person I think.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Andy_JS said:

    Utterly shocked by the Rupert Lowe allegations. Didn't expect this sort of thing to happen with Reform UK.

    Serious question - why?

    If the allegations are true they aren't ideological or partisan behaviours, they are the sorts of things people in authority are prone to do when abusing that authority.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,325
    Andy_JS said:

    Is there any possibility of reconciliation between Farage and Lowe?

    Kiss and make up?
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 908
    TimS said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    They’ve not learned. This article shows that even the rebels haven’t learned.

    Everyone is competing to win the misery cup. It’s what did for Rachel Reeves (and consumer confidence) last year. It’s what risks doing for the Tories, and Reform now.

    You want to live the same life your parents had? Well bloody cheer up. Yes we have a thug in the White House, war on our doorstep and environmental meltdown, but let’s be honest we’re a successful developed economy, with high life expectancy, high levels of education, relatively low levels of crime, passports that’ll take us to most of the world with ease, and a pretty strong brand and reputation internationally. It’s not that bad.

    We need a bit of cheer and optimism and hope. The first politician that grasps this (Boris at least attempted to, and before him Blair) has a huge potential vote to harvest.
    "I feel in regard to this aged England, with the possessions, honors and trophies, and also with the infirmities of a thousand years gathering around her, irretrievably committed as she now is to many old customs which cannot be suddenly changed; pressed upon by the transitions of trade and new and all incalculable modes, fabrics, arts, machines and competing populations.

    I see her not dispirited, not weak, but well remembering that she has seen dark days before;—indeed with a kind of instinct that she sees a little better in a cloudy day, and that in storm of battle and calamity she has a secret vigor and a pulse like a cannon. I see her in her old age, not decrepit, but young and still daring to believe in her power of endurance and expansion. Seeing this, I say, All hail! mother of nations, mother of heroes, with strength still equal to the time; still wise to entertain and swift to execute the policy which the mind and heart of mankind requires in the present hour, and thus only hospitable to the foreigner and truly a home to the thoughtful and generous who are born in the soil."
    And that was written before the Second World War!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Nigelb said:

    Can’t argue with any of this.

    Murphy: Six Weeks In, This White House Is On Its Way To Being The Most Corrupt In U.S. History

    https://www.murphy.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/murphy-six-weeks-in-this-white-house-is-on-its-way-to-being-the-most-corrupt-in-us-history
    … I’m a big Boston Red Sox fan. One of the most famous players in Red Sox recent history is Manny Ramirez. Manny Ramirez was a good baseball player, but he had a habit of doing some pretty ridiculous things on the field and off the field that were really detrimental to the team, some really bizarre on-field behavior – cutting off throws from other outfielders before they got to the infield – bizarre off-the-field behavior that disrupted the team. It became so regular that a phrase was adopted among the Red Sox fans: ‘That's just Manny being Manny.’ Over the years it just was accepted that every year Manny Ramirez was going to do a whole bunch of stuff that was really detrimental to the team. And over time, it just kind of became accepted, that that was a fact of life, a way of life with Manny Ramirez. And as time went on, people reacted less hostilely. It barely got noticed in some cases when he was engaged in these detrimental forms of conduct.

    “And I tell that story because it stands for kind of a universal concept: when bad behavior gets normalized, it no longer feels like bad behavior. Even if that behavior is hurting people. Today, the world is littered with corrupt governments, governments where the leaders and the really rich men who surround the leaders – the oligarchs – steal from people…

    “Vladimir Putin, for instance, has never had a job outside of government, but he's reportedly worth $200 billion. … They've been doing this so openly and brazenly, they're so public in their corruption in Russia, that it's just accepted. It's just mainstream, the fact that Putin and his cronies steal from the Russian people.

    “That's what's happening in America today. And it's heartbreaking for me to say this, but in the first six weeks of the Trump presidency, Trump and Elon Musk and their billionaire friends have engaged in a stunning rampage of open public corruption. It's not fundamentally different than what happened in Russia. These are efforts to steal from the American people to enrich themselves. And their strategy is to do it all out in the open, to do it at such a dizzying pace that the country just gets overwhelmed or anesthetized or dulled into a sense that we just all have to accept the corruption – or, maybe more charitably, that this is just how government works, that government is just corrupt, and so the fact that it's happening out in the open instead of happening secretly, well, it's really nothing new.

    “But this is not how government works…

    It is now.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665
    Trump and Bessent on again tonight about bitcoin reserves for US government.

    Apparently it is about "stability"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Utterly shocked by the Rupert Lowe allegations. Didn't expect this sort of thing to happen with Reform UK.

    Serious question - why?

    If the allegations are true they aren't ideological or partisan behaviours, they are the sorts of things people in authority are prone to do when abusing that authority.
    I think he was joking
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018


    Douglas Carswell🇬🇧🇺🇸
    @DouglasCarswell
    ·
    1h
    Rupert Lowe has lost the party whip. Why am I not surprised?

    Yes, Farage and Carswell also did not get on, though isn't Carswell a total loon now?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    Why shouldn’t it?

    And, as with Britain, Turkey should hope for privileged access to the single market, too.
    Indeed.
    “Stunning twist” is hyperbole, but it’s still significant news that they want direct involvement.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    kle4 said:


    Douglas Carswell🇬🇧🇺🇸
    @DouglasCarswell
    ·
    1h
    Rupert Lowe has lost the party whip. Why am I not surprised?

    Yes, Farage and Carswell also did not get on, though isn't Carswell a total loon now?
    What do you mean, now?
    He was always a loon.

    However, Farage is a loon AND a lazy sociopath.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    Why shouldn’t it?

    And, as with Britain, Turkey should hope for privileged access to the single market, too.
    Indeed.
    “Stunning twist” is hyperbole, but it’s still significant news that they want direct involvement.
    UK-France-Turkey in Ukraine.
    What could go wrong?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:



    Those carbon capture billions must be looking pretty doomed...

    Fingers crossed, £22bn is 8-12 new boats/subs or 100+ fighter jets or a bunch of tanks and amphibious transports.

    £22bn for carbon capture is a gigantic piss away of money.
    Much of that money was due to come from energy bill levies, so don’t bank on it.
    Too late to stop all of it. NZT and NEP/ECC have already taken FID. That's a few billion right there.
    No doubt.
    But it would make sense to curtail what can be curtailed.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,869

    Trump and Bessent on again tonight about bitcoin reserves for US government.

    Apparently it is about "stability"

    Thiel's Founder's Fund was one of the first to make big investment in crypto.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
    You’re a paranoid rich man, who’s persuaded himself he lives in the worst of times.

    My grandparents faced much worse, with a lot more fortitude.
    Unfortunately, Leon is “very online”.
    It’s simply not mentally healthy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018

    kle4 said:


    Douglas Carswell🇬🇧🇺🇸
    @DouglasCarswell
    ·
    1h
    Rupert Lowe has lost the party whip. Why am I not surprised?

    Yes, Farage and Carswell also did not get on, though isn't Carswell a total loon now?
    What do you mean, now?
    He was always a loon.

    However, Farage is a loon AND a lazy sociopath.
    Well, opinions will vary about looniness of course.

    But what I meant was that I think he's now more radical and raving. Your standard permanently online escalation.

    Farage, for all I think some of his views (eg on Russia) are loony, I don't think generally comes across like one on most matters.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,168

    kle4 said:

    https://x.com/skynews/status/1898124977355784439

    Gene Hackman's wife died from a rare infectious disease around a week before the actor died, medical investigators have said.

    Hackman had advanced Alzheimer's and died from heart disease.

    I get it says they lived a private life, but as rich as they must have been no-one like a maid or carer support was scheduled to be there for over a week? Extremely private I guess.
    Or their kids???
    They were found by the weekly care/help/maintenance person I think.
    I know but you'd think the children would check up on them every so often?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Trump has sown the wind.

    Now, let him reap the whirlwind.
    Sadly, not sure he will be the one reaping it.

    Trump will live out his days immensely powerful, rich, and adored by tens of millions.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
    You’re a paranoid rich man, who’s persuaded himself he lives in the worst of times.

    My grandparents faced much worse, with a lot more fortitude.
    Upper lips are not very stiff these days. Mine isn't, and like any ageing grouch my opinion of Gen Z is they are even worse.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769

    Huge win for Gove at Knapper's Dispatch as Tim Shipman formal announces he is their new Pol Ed.

    Never believe anything until it's been formally denied. Wasn't Shippers formally denying this a few days ago?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249


    Andrew Pierce
    @toryboypierce
    ·
    4h
    Suspending @RupertLowe10 from @reformparty_uk
    will create a potentially fatal civil war in the party from which they might not recover

    https://x.com/toryboypierce/status/1898080165583782087



    Larry the Cat
    @Number10cat

    It's a risk we'll just have to take

    We shall just have to bear that hardship as best we can.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Trump has sown the wind.

    Now, let him reap the whirlwind.
    Sadly, not sure he will be the one reaping it.

    Trump will live out his days immensely powerful, rich, and adored by tens of millions.
    Like Mao then.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
    You’re a paranoid rich man, who’s persuaded himself he lives in the worst of times.

    My grandparents faced much worse, with a lot more fortitude.
    Unfortunately, Leon is “very online”.
    It’s simply not mentally healthy.
    Whilst I agree, it's a charge few of us could defend ourselves from.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    Bills of attainder are barred by the constitution, but executive orders ?
    Not so much.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/03/addressing-risks-from-perkins-coie-llp/

    Trump finds another low to plumb.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    The problem with suspending Rupert Lowe from Reforn is that Rupert had quite a fan base among what passes as the “Reform intelligentsia.”

    And since the suspension looks like ab underhand move to punish Lowe for his comments yesterday, it makes Farage look like a fraudulent despot.

    Whether the man sat in front of GB “News” cares is less obvious, but I think there will be trickle-down damage.

    Not a good few weeks for Reform.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
    You’re a paranoid rich man, who’s persuaded himself he lives in the worst of times.

    My grandparents faced much worse, with a lot more fortitude.
    Unfortunately, Leon is “very online”.
    It’s simply not mentally healthy.
    Whilst I agree, it's a charge few of us could defend ourselves from.
    Yes, but we all need to heed Plato and the many, many other loons we have seen lose their intellectual bearings.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Nigelb said:

    Bills of attainder are barred by the constitution, but executive orders ?
    Not so much.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/03/addressing-risks-from-perkins-coie-llp/

    Trump finds another low to plumb.

    Politicians settle scores, but has anyone ever tried it so brazenly and so intensely, without a care for other matters, as Trump?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
    You’re a paranoid rich man, who’s persuaded himself he lives in the worst of times.

    My grandparents faced much worse, with a lot more fortitude.
    Unfortunately, Leon is “very online”.
    It’s simply not mentally healthy.
    Whilst I agree, it's a charge few of us could defend ourselves from.
    Yes, but we all need to heed Plato and the many, many other loons we have seen lose their intellectual bearings.
    I'm just waiting for the day I crack.

    Or I did long ago and passed into the gentle valleys of insanity on the other side.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    edited March 7
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Bills of attainder are barred by the constitution, but executive orders ?
    Not so much.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/03/addressing-risks-from-perkins-coie-llp/

    Trump finds another low to plumb.

    Politicians settle scores, but has anyone ever tried it so brazenly and so intensely, without a care for other matters, as Trump?
    For this alone he should be impeached.

    Again, hard to disagree with this.

    This is the most absurd and appalling document to issue from an official government body in the United States in modern American history.

    We are losing our country.

    https://x.com/HeathMayo/status/1897845053269168335
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,482

    The problem with suspending Rupert Lowe from Reforn is that Rupert had quite a fan base among what passes as the “Reform intelligentsia.”

    And since the suspension looks like ab underhand move to punish Lowe for his comments yesterday, it makes Farage look like a fraudulent despot.

    Whether the man sat in front of GB “News” cares is less obvious, but I think there will be trickle-down damage.

    Not a good few weeks for Reform.

    Entirely unrelated - but last weekend I rewatched the Adam Curtis documentary 'The Mayfair Set'. The episode entitled 'Entrepreneur Spelt S.P.I.V.' quite struck me.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Trump has sown the wind.

    Now, let him reap the whirlwind.
    Sadly, not sure he will be the one reaping it.

    Trump will live out his days immensely powerful, rich, and adored by tens of millions.
    Only in his own head at the very secure care home.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,003
    Andy_JS said:

    Is there any possibility of reconciliation between Farage and Lowe?

    Depends what their learned friends think I guess. Farage is going to have to be very very careful how he talks about this when interviewed.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,632
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
    You’re a paranoid rich man, who’s persuaded himself he lives in the worst of times.

    My grandparents faced much worse, with a lot more fortitude.
    I've faced much worse.
    My 10 year old daughter came home from school the other day concerned because people had been telling her Putin was going to drop a bomb on Britain. Which he might. But is struck me that for my childhood, the threat of annihilation was the constant background noise. As was discussed earlier, the USSR's plans for the destruction of the world were so comprehensive they even made time to wipe out New Zealand.
    Objectively, today is a far better time to be alive than the early 80s.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,724

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    Why shouldn’t it?

    And, as with Britain, Turkey should hope for privileged access to the single market, too.
    Indeed.
    “Stunning twist” is hyperbole, but it’s still significant news that they want direct involvement.
    UK-France-Turkey in Ukraine.
    What could go wrong?
    Don’t like the look of those Russians near Afghanistan. Time for some red coats. Well, khaki…
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    The Caucasus in play?

    So many parts moving now as Trump turns the entire post-war table or at least post-89 table up on its arse without a coherent thought.

    Who knows where the pieces now will fall.

    Trump has sown the wind.

    Now, let him reap the whirlwind.
    Sadly, not sure he will be the one reaping it.

    Trump will live out his days immensely powerful, rich, and adored by tens of millions.
    Only in his own head at the very secure care home.
    I wish it were so. But given his age, that he is essentially immune for life from any criminal prosecution now and length of time it would take even if he wasn't, the fervour of support he has, and his ability to grift from his base, neither his freedom or wealth look like being affected in his lifetime.

    Maybe he's not really happy inside or something, as he seems to be consumed with bitterness and rage, but that's probably just a coping mechanism for me that he cannot really have everything he wants as it seems.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Bills of attainder are barred by the constitution, but executive orders ?
    Not so much.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/03/addressing-risks-from-perkins-coie-llp/

    Trump finds another low to plumb.

    Politicians settle scores, but has anyone ever tried it so brazenly and so intensely, without a care for other matters, as Trump?
    There appears to be no real opposition, either.
    The Democrats are feeble, if not invisible.

    Even the media is kind of demoralised.
    I saw that EO come in and throught, “WTF”, but even the NYT just tut-tuts rather than recognises it for what it is (ie an attempted Act of Attainder) and why that it is an abomination,

    The only safeguard in the system is the legal system, but I feel like Americans have sub-contracted out politics to various anonymous judges.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,482
    Nigelb said:

    Can’t argue with any of this.

    Murphy: Six Weeks In, This White House Is On Its Way To Being The Most Corrupt In U.S. History

    https://www.murphy.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/murphy-six-weeks-in-this-white-house-is-on-its-way-to-being-the-most-corrupt-in-us-history
    … I’m a big Boston Red Sox fan. One of the most famous players in Red Sox recent history is Manny Ramirez. Manny Ramirez was a good baseball player, but he had a habit of doing some pretty ridiculous things on the field and off the field that were really detrimental to the team, some really bizarre on-field behavior – cutting off throws from other outfielders before they got to the infield – bizarre off-the-field behavior that disrupted the team. It became so regular that a phrase was adopted among the Red Sox fans: ‘That's just Manny being Manny.’ Over the years it just was accepted that every year Manny Ramirez was going to do a whole bunch of stuff that was really detrimental to the team. And over time, it just kind of became accepted, that that was a fact of life, a way of life with Manny Ramirez. And as time went on, people reacted less hostilely. It barely got noticed in some cases when he was engaged in these detrimental forms of conduct.

    “And I tell that story because it stands for kind of a universal concept: when bad behavior gets normalized, it no longer feels like bad behavior. Even if that behavior is hurting people. Today, the world is littered with corrupt governments, governments where the leaders and the really rich men who surround the leaders – the oligarchs – steal from people…

    “Vladimir Putin, for instance, has never had a job outside of government, but he's reportedly worth $200 billion. … They've been doing this so openly and brazenly, they're so public in their corruption in Russia, that it's just accepted. It's just mainstream, the fact that Putin and his cronies steal from the Russian people.

    “That's what's happening in America today. And it's heartbreaking for me to say this, but in the first six weeks of the Trump presidency, Trump and Elon Musk and their billionaire friends have engaged in a stunning rampage of open public corruption. It's not fundamentally different than what happened in Russia. These are efforts to steal from the American people to enrich themselves. And their strategy is to do it all out in the open, to do it at such a dizzying pace that the country just gets overwhelmed or anesthetized or dulled into a sense that we just all have to accept the corruption – or, maybe more charitably, that this is just how government works, that government is just corrupt, and so the fact that it's happening out in the open instead of happening secretly, well, it's really nothing new.

    “But this is not how government works…

    I keep thinking that Hunter S. Thompson and William Burroughs could both have made a fortune writing about the current goings on. Thompson in particular I can imagine being in his glory wading into this new swamp.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,275

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
    You’re a paranoid rich man, who’s persuaded himself he lives in the worst of times.

    My grandparents faced much worse, with a lot more fortitude.
    Unfortunately, Leon is “very online”.
    It’s simply not mentally healthy.
    Leon's life experience is varied but very non-standard.

    Posh hotels and restaurants at one end together with druggie squats and being on remand for rape on the other.

    Very top 10% and bottom 10% but not much of the 80% in the middle.

    Its what made him for many years an interesting PBer but it does detach him from the ordinariness of the average life.

    There's not much NOOM in the 9 to 5.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,860
    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
    You’re a paranoid rich man, who’s persuaded himself he lives in the worst of times.

    My grandparents faced much worse, with a lot more fortitude.
    I've faced much worse.
    My 10 year old daughter came home from school the other day concerned because people had been telling her Putin was going to drop a bomb on Britain. Which he might. But is struck me that for my childhood, the threat of annihilation was the constant background noise. As was discussed earlier, the USSR's plans for the destruction of the world were so comprehensive they even made time to wipe out New Zealand.
    Objectively, today is a far better time to be alive than the early 80s.
    And 2000 was a better time to be alive than either, though you wouldn't have known it by reading the media of the day.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,374

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
    You’re a paranoid rich man, who’s persuaded himself he lives in the worst of times.

    My grandparents faced much worse, with a lot more fortitude.
    Unfortunately, Leon is “very online”.
    It’s simply not mentally healthy.
    Leon's life experience is varied but very non-standard.

    Posh hotels and restaurants at one end together with druggie squats and being on remand for rape on the other.

    Very top 10% and bottom 10% but not much of the 80% in the middle.

    Its what made him for many years an interesting PBer but it does detach him from the ordinariness of the average life.

    There's not much NOOM in the 9 to 5.
    We need "Leon in Suburbia". Send him to Solihull for a year.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,275
    carnforth said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
    You’re a paranoid rich man, who’s persuaded himself he lives in the worst of times.

    My grandparents faced much worse, with a lot more fortitude.
    Unfortunately, Leon is “very online”.
    It’s simply not mentally healthy.
    Leon's life experience is varied but very non-standard.

    Posh hotels and restaurants at one end together with druggie squats and being on remand for rape on the other.

    Very top 10% and bottom 10% but not much of the 80% in the middle.

    Its what made him for many years an interesting PBer but it does detach him from the ordinariness of the average life.

    There's not much NOOM in the 9 to 5.
    We need "Leon in Suburbia". Send him to Solihull for a year.
    I did once suggest he travel around the country meeting other PBers.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,632
    I feel sad that Stuart Pearce is 62.
    Do you remember when a bin lorry fell on his car? His response was to get out of the car and look a bit cross.
    They don't make footballers like that any more.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,234
    After the hatchet job on him tonight perhaps Lowe might defect to the Tories. He is too posh for Reform really
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,234
    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    He is going to the Telegraph
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,234

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    The social contract is broken. Before me lies a future of personal immiseration, demographic revolution, and global war. I just want the same lives my parents had. I want a Britain that is vaguely civilised, not a bankrupt, self-loathing, and crime-ridden Yookay

    He may be disappointed in that case. But is definitely sounding the alarm.

    Too many in our party don’t quite realise just how much we’re hated. MPs are blinded by survivorship bias. Labour’s travails lull them into a false sense of smug security, rather than waking them up to how volatile politics has become. They write Reform off as a passing fad, and assume that since we’ve made it through 300-odd years, that we have a divine right to exist.

    We do not. We are dying on our feet.
    That’s the problem.

    So many people on the right have persuaded themselves that living in a flawed, but free and prosperous democracy, is the worst fate that can befall a nation.

    It used to be the far left which was this fucking stupid.
    Because your diagnosis of the uk is fucking bullshit
    You’re a paranoid rich man, who’s persuaded himself he lives in the worst of times.

    My grandparents faced much worse, with a lot more fortitude.
    Unfortunately, Leon is “very online”.
    It’s simply not mentally healthy.
    Leon's life experience is varied but very non-standard.

    Posh hotels and restaurants at one end together with druggie squats and being on remand for rape on the other.

    Very top 10% and bottom 10% but not much of the 80% in the middle.

    Its what made him for many years an interesting PBer but it does detach him from the ordinariness of the average life.

    There's not much NOOM in the 9 to 5.
    The most interesting people tend to be found in the richest 10% and the poorest 10%, everyone else is just muddling along
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,168
    Synth Britannia music docu on BBC4 right now.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,869
    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Can’t argue with any of this.

    Murphy: Six Weeks In, This White House Is On Its Way To Being The Most Corrupt In U.S. History

    https://www.murphy.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/murphy-six-weeks-in-this-white-house-is-on-its-way-to-being-the-most-corrupt-in-us-history
    … I’m a big Boston Red Sox fan. One of the most famous players in Red Sox recent history is Manny Ramirez. Manny Ramirez was a good baseball player, but he had a habit of doing some pretty ridiculous things on the field and off the field that were really detrimental to the team, some really bizarre on-field behavior – cutting off throws from other outfielders before they got to the infield – bizarre off-the-field behavior that disrupted the team. It became so regular that a phrase was adopted among the Red Sox fans: ‘That's just Manny being Manny.’ Over the years it just was accepted that every year Manny Ramirez was going to do a whole bunch of stuff that was really detrimental to the team. And over time, it just kind of became accepted, that that was a fact of life, a way of life with Manny Ramirez. And as time went on, people reacted less hostilely. It barely got noticed in some cases when he was engaged in these detrimental forms of conduct.

    “And I tell that story because it stands for kind of a universal concept: when bad behavior gets normalized, it no longer feels like bad behavior. Even if that behavior is hurting people. Today, the world is littered with corrupt governments, governments where the leaders and the really rich men who surround the leaders – the oligarchs – steal from people…

    “Vladimir Putin, for instance, has never had a job outside of government, but he's reportedly worth $200 billion. … They've been doing this so openly and brazenly, they're so public in their corruption in Russia, that it's just accepted. It's just mainstream, the fact that Putin and his cronies steal from the Russian people.

    “That's what's happening in America today. And it's heartbreaking for me to say this, but in the first six weeks of the Trump presidency, Trump and Elon Musk and their billionaire friends have engaged in a stunning rampage of open public corruption. It's not fundamentally different than what happened in Russia. These are efforts to steal from the American people to enrich themselves. And their strategy is to do it all out in the open, to do it at such a dizzying pace that the country just gets overwhelmed or anesthetized or dulled into a sense that we just all have to accept the corruption – or, maybe more charitably, that this is just how government works, that government is just corrupt, and so the fact that it's happening out in the open instead of happening secretly, well, it's really nothing new.

    “But this is not how government works…

    I keep thinking that Hunter S. Thompson and William Burroughs could both have made a fortune writing about the current goings on. Thompson in particular I can imagine being in his glory wading into this new swamp.
    I remember in the first days of Biden's adninistration, there was a lot of talk of a big crackdown on monopoly capitalism, in the shape of big tech.
    But Sanders ideas on this were soon shelved, as bad for the economy.

    Looking at monstrous trajectory of Thiel, Musk, Bezos, and Zuckerberg, that might have been a disastrous decision for American democracy, and the reason seems to be the same ideological capture by extreme neoliberal ideas about regulation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,234
    Nigelb said:

    Another BIG move by Turkey

    In a stunning twist, Turkey is reportedly open to deploying peacekeepers to Ukraine—but only if Ankara gets a seat at the table in all major security discussions (which it will).

    Believe me, this is only the beginning.

    https://x.com/zriboua/status/1895151906072469872

    Putin might agree to that as could Zelensky
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,325
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    William Atkinson's resignation article in ConHome. He's a bit...anguished.

    https://conservativehome.com/2025/03/04/living-on-a-thin-line/

    He is going to the Telegraph
    Out of the frying pan...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,234
    edited March 7

    Details of Labour’s cuts to welfare have been leaked.

    Will go down badly with the faithful but I suspect but will be more popular with the country at large.

    If your main priority is cutting welfare you will be voting Tory or Reform anyway. Could see some leakage to the Greens from Labour even if fiscally may be necessary.

    The left will want more tax rises to fill the gap
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,904
    edited March 7

    Synth Britannia music docu on BBC4 right now.

    Thanks for the alert Sunil. Do you watch the Top of the Pops replays on BBC4 on Fridays at 7pm?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109

    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Can’t argue with any of this.

    Murphy: Six Weeks In, This White House Is On Its Way To Being The Most Corrupt In U.S. History

    https://www.murphy.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/murphy-six-weeks-in-this-white-house-is-on-its-way-to-being-the-most-corrupt-in-us-history
    … I’m a big Boston Red Sox fan. One of the most famous players in Red Sox recent history is Manny Ramirez. Manny Ramirez was a good baseball player, but he had a habit of doing some pretty ridiculous things on the field and off the field that were really detrimental to the team, some really bizarre on-field behavior – cutting off throws from other outfielders before they got to the infield – bizarre off-the-field behavior that disrupted the team. It became so regular that a phrase was adopted among the Red Sox fans: ‘That's just Manny being Manny.’ Over the years it just was accepted that every year Manny Ramirez was going to do a whole bunch of stuff that was really detrimental to the team. And over time, it just kind of became accepted, that that was a fact of life, a way of life with Manny Ramirez. And as time went on, people reacted less hostilely. It barely got noticed in some cases when he was engaged in these detrimental forms of conduct.

    “And I tell that story because it stands for kind of a universal concept: when bad behavior gets normalized, it no longer feels like bad behavior. Even if that behavior is hurting people. Today, the world is littered with corrupt governments, governments where the leaders and the really rich men who surround the leaders – the oligarchs – steal from people…

    “Vladimir Putin, for instance, has never had a job outside of government, but he's reportedly worth $200 billion. … They've been doing this so openly and brazenly, they're so public in their corruption in Russia, that it's just accepted. It's just mainstream, the fact that Putin and his cronies steal from the Russian people.

    “That's what's happening in America today. And it's heartbreaking for me to say this, but in the first six weeks of the Trump presidency, Trump and Elon Musk and their billionaire friends have engaged in a stunning rampage of open public corruption. It's not fundamentally different than what happened in Russia. These are efforts to steal from the American people to enrich themselves. And their strategy is to do it all out in the open, to do it at such a dizzying pace that the country just gets overwhelmed or anesthetized or dulled into a sense that we just all have to accept the corruption – or, maybe more charitably, that this is just how government works, that government is just corrupt, and so the fact that it's happening out in the open instead of happening secretly, well, it's really nothing new.

    “But this is not how government works…

    I keep thinking that Hunter S. Thompson and William Burroughs could both have made a fortune writing about the current goings on. Thompson in particular I can imagine being in his glory wading into this new swamp.
    I remember in the first days of Biden's adninistration, there was a lot of talk of a big crackdown on monopoly capitalism, in the shape of big tech.
    But Sanders ideas on this were soon shelved, as bad for the economy.

    Looking at monstrous trajectory of Thiel, Musk, Bezos, and Zuckerberg, that might have been a disastrous decision for American democracy, and the reason seems to be the same ideological capture by extreme neoliberal ideas about regulation.
    The capture you talk about has been a clear risk for fifteen years or more.

    And we have been on this journey since the deregulation of media that took place in the 80s and 90s.

    It may be that digital media is not actually compatible with democracy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,665
    Interesting.

    John Bolton is tonight saying EU moves to kind of replace NATO are a mistake as it gives Trump a good way to say 'there you go, you don't need us'

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,374
    Is there a market on next cabinet resignation? At the right odds wouldn't mind a punt on Miliband. One or more of his schemes is on the chopping block...
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