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Why growth might not be enough for Labour – politicalbetting.com

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  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,936
    algarkirk said:

    It's just freedom of speech + internet in operation. I very rarely look at PoliticsJoe but they are not bad, and why shouldn't younger people try to make careers out of whatever opportunity they can find? It's a free market, and no-one is compelled to watch it. And it is much less clickbaity than the Guardian.
    I'm not suggesting they should be banned. I am saying they should be pointed at and mocked for their juvenilia most severely in a Pythonesque manner. Possibly whilst waving a shrubbery
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,309

    "a loophole that no-one knows anything about"

    That's the very best of epic fails. The loophole exists - found and exploited by the lawyers and validated by the judge. The loophole is definable as the Home Office are working on a change in the law to close it.

    You know who you're talking about when you say "no-one knows anything about"? Its *the Tories*. Inept drafting of the law by *the Tories* and now an inability to understand their own actions by *the Tories*.

    Not only did Kemi manage to fall into repeated bear traps of her own laying, she gifted Starmer the ability to detail just how inept the Tories were in government.

    Whose law allowed the Palestinian family onto the Ukraine framework? *The Tories*
    Who hired someone to WFM from Finland? *The Tories*
    What’s this supposed legal loophole?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,430
    Leon said:

    Me

    It’s Time. Time for the Leon Parliament

    My cabinet shall comprise Lord Byronic as Deputy PM, the right honourable Mystic Rose as Home Secretary, the Lady G as COTE, and Goodwife Heathener as Keeper of the Thermos

    Admitting Heathener now are we? Its a great character but the thermos thing was just too weird.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,123

    NATO members each have a veto on collective action by NATO. If the US says no, no collective action.

    Trump hasn’t announced leaving NATO. Yet.
    Everyone in NATO doing what USA wants cos they provide the de facto muscle being swapped for everyone doing what the USA wants despite them withdrawing the muscle doesn’t seem a great deal tbh.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,521

    What the hell was that Paddington Bear shit by Stella Creasy?

    Normally I would have fun tarring remainers with the brush, but I shall desist in this case: Stella Creasy is simply astonishingly dense.
  • "a loophole that no-one knows anything about"

    That's the very best of epic fails. The loophole exists - found and exploited by the lawyers and validated by the judge. The loophole is definable as the Home Office are working on a change in the law to close it.

    You know who you're talking about when you say "no-one knows anything about"? Its *the Tories*. Inept drafting of the law by *the Tories* and now an inability to understand their own actions by *the Tories*.

    Not only did Kemi manage to fall into repeated bear traps of her own laying, she gifted Starmer the ability to detail just how inept the Tories were in government.

    Whose law allowed the Palestinian family onto the Ukraine framework? *The Tories*
    Who hired someone to WFM from Finland? *The Tories*
    Please detail the loophole and exactly how the government have confirmed that they are closing it. Where is this detail?

    Starmer said he didn't agree with the judgement, so how is it a loophole?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,825

    Everyone in NATO doing what USA wants cos they provide the de facto muscle being swapped for everyone doing what the USA wants despite them withdrawing the muscle doesn’t seem a great deal tbh.
    Everyone in NATO has a veto.

    Which is why the Orban government was upsetting so many, little while ago.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 2,005

    People are really struggling to understand which media organisations are backing who. The Sun backed Labour. GB News is Reform.

    Probably deservedly, I doubt there are many friends of Conservatives in the media. Even the Mail was half-hearted, just in an attempt to stop a Labour landslide. That was then, can only imagine now.
    The problem for the Conservatives is that post-Brexit they don't have any critical friends in the media. The Mail, Telegraph, and The Sun became parodies of themselves in terms of becoming uncritical cheerleaders rather than papers with a certain viewpoint on behalf of their readers who were sympathetic to the Tories but capable of unexpected criticism when wrong as they saw it.

    It's like what rubbish conspiracy websites like The Canary were to Corbynism in terms of trying to serve a view rather than express it and deluding themselves.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,008
    edited February 12

    What the hell was that Paddington Bear shit by Stella Creasy?

    [big shit deleted]

  • So what you're saying is that providing we ignore the majority of people who don't vote Tory, they are definitely on track to win?
    They are your words. What I am saying is that people haven't moved on from thinking majority of media backs Conservatives, when they really don't.

    Conservatives are not on track to win anything.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 2,005
    Nigelb said:

    So Europe should be determining what happens in Ukraine, then.
    If you've no skin in the game, then you don't get to write terms of any settlement. Or nick Ukraine's mineral resources.
    Did he take Putin's cock out of his mouth before saying that?
  • Nigelb said:

    Already asked and answered.
    You're as bad as Kemi.
    Can you quote me the exact words when he said he was or was not appealing the judgement? It must have passed me by. Closing a loophole for future cases is not appealing this specific judgement.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,171
    Battlebus said:

    Interesting version of chain migration. If the court did support his application there would be bulge in the number of w**kers applying for paternity rights.
    Paternity Rights in those circs could get quite expensive.

    When the UK removed anonymity rights from sperm donors, the numbers reduced significantly.

    The Danelaw is coming back - we get a lot of sperm donors from Denmark.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,202
    edited February 12
    .

    Amazing. Is this the first PB thread ever of genuine political consensus? We all like Jeremy Hunt.

    'Like' is too strong. I've always thought him a bit of a hunt. But a fairly competent hunt, unlike most of the previous* Tory front bench. They could do worse (and already have, several times).

    *I've not been paying enough attention to comment on the current one - the Tory front bench does seem largely irrelevant at present, probably quite different with a different leader before they are in power
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,951

    Everyone in NATO doing what USA wants cos they provide the de facto muscle being swapped for everyone doing what the USA wants despite them withdrawing the muscle doesn’t seem a great deal tbh.
    Yes, this can't go on. Complaining about financial contributions is one thing; ordering every other NATO member to appease Vlad as his tanks roll towards the English Channel is a different matter entirely. The US needs to be ejected.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,450
    @EdKrassen
    🚨 TRUMPFLATION has arrived! 🚨

    January CPI inflation rose to 3.0%, surpassing expectations (2.9%), with month-over-month inflation hitting its highest level in a year.

    Funny how, when Democrats pointed to Trump’s policies as a factor in inflation under Biden, Republicans flat-out rejected the idea. But now that inflation is ticking up under Trump, suddenly it’s the past administration's fault?

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too, GOP.

    https://x.com/EdKrassen/status/1889670873004855392
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,008

    I noted this was to gain favour with about two months ago.
    You claim you posted Chagos is not about UN, but about sorting India problem 2 months before I did?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,858

    The case for a European army to replace NATO is now surely indisputable. The Trump factor has rendered the whole NATO concept utterly redundant.

    In the case of the Ukraine invasion, which is the overriding threat to Europe for the foreseeable future, it's simply fact now, as Hegseth has made crystal clear.

    That doesn't mean NATO should be discarded, but its utility is massively diminished while Trump is in office. Beyond that, who knows, but we ought not hastily dismantle a structure which has served well for so long.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,171
    edited February 12
    Leon said:

    Jeez the bbc is so horrifically and obviously biased against Trump

    “Look what he’s done now”

    “Musk is an idiot”

    “He’s insane isn’t he? - let’s get this Democrat politician on, to agree with us”

    You’d think Trump was some tinpot dictator in Central America - not the most powerful politician in the world who holds his position by winning the popular vote in a massive election

    They all seem well-evidenced and quite reasonable, to me.

    The only thing that I can see is off is the reference to an aspirational tinpot dictator in CENTRAL America !

  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,264
    Sean_F said:

    A very high likelihood of violent death, however.
    Free assisted dying! Bonus!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,442
    Scott_xP said:

    @EdKrassen
    🚨 TRUMPFLATION has arrived! 🚨

    January CPI inflation rose to 3.0%, surpassing expectations (2.9%), with month-over-month inflation hitting its highest level in a year.

    Funny how, when Democrats pointed to Trump’s policies as a factor in inflation under Biden, Republicans flat-out rejected the idea. But now that inflation is ticking up under Trump, suddenly it’s the past administration's fault?

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too, GOP.

    https://x.com/EdKrassen/status/1889670873004855392

    Most of January was under Biden.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,858
    Scott_xP said:

    @EdKrassen
    🚨 TRUMPFLATION has arrived! 🚨

    January CPI inflation rose to 3.0%, surpassing expectations (2.9%), with month-over-month inflation hitting its highest level in a year.

    Funny how, when Democrats pointed to Trump’s policies as a factor in inflation under Biden, Republicans flat-out rejected the idea. But now that inflation is ticking up under Trump, suddenly it’s the past administration's fault?

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too, GOP.

    https://x.com/EdKrassen/status/1889670873004855392

    They can, of course, as the belief is axiomatic, and the arguments required to justify it irrelevant.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,936
    Damien Walter thinks Elon is poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LQa28X-1AQ (30 mins)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,858
    MattW said:

    They all seem well-evidenced and quite reasonable, to me.

    The only thing that I can see is off is the reference to an aspirational tinpot dictator in CENTRAL America !

    That's Panama.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,508

    The case for a European army to replace NATO is now surely indisputable. The Trump factor has rendered the whole NATO concept utterly redundant.

    NATO also includes Canada and the UK and Norway, unlike the EU
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,508
    MJW said:

    The problem for the Conservatives is that post-Brexit they don't have any critical friends in the media. The Mail, Telegraph, and The Sun became parodies of themselves in terms of becoming uncritical cheerleaders rather than papers with a certain viewpoint on behalf of their readers who were sympathetic to the Tories but capable of unexpected criticism when wrong as they saw it.

    It's like what rubbish conspiracy websites like The Canary were to Corbynism in terms of trying to serve a view rather than express it and deluding themselves.
    The Times is now the Kemi Tories house journal, Hague writes for it, Gove used to
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,171

    https://x.com/dominicwaghorn/status/1889672740237361494?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Bombshell speech from US Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth to Nato:
    - US will no longer be the primary guarantor of security in Europe.
    - US troops will not be part of any Ukrainian peacekeeping deterrence force
    - No Nato protection for any forces that do take part in that force.

    He's overreaching. just as Mr Trump did when he started threatening Jordan and Eqypt to try and make them do things that would result in significant damage to them as safe and secure countries (such as they are). Mt Trump has shredded the peace process, again - such as it is.

    Hegseth is behaving like Peppermint Patty with a brainstorm, and undermining any potential Ukrainian negototation.

    In the short term he will make it impossible.

    In the medium term he will force Europe to work out how to be independent of the USA and self-reliant. It's a recipe for self-marginalisation for the USA; they are less predominant than he thinks they are.

    Just as with USAID, they are washing away the foundations of their international influence - collection of fucking clowns.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,858

    Please detail the loophole and exactly how the government have confirmed that they are closing it. Where is this detail?

    Starmer said he didn't agree with the judgement, so how is it a loophole?
    You need to work on your reading comprehension.

    "But he also said he thought the judge had made the wrong decision. That's incompatible with closing a loophole."


    "No it isn't.
    As I pointed out above, laws conflict and produce uncertainties, which is what seems to have happened here. You can think a judgment got the balance wrong, and at the same time recognise that the only way to rectify that might be legislation.
    No doubt they're trying to work out whether it's worth the time an appeal might take, along with the uncertain outcome, or whether it's simply more efficient to produce yet more legislation..."

    Are you Kemi ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,070
    edited February 12

    Most of January was under Biden.
    Did the news drop at precisely 13:30 GMT ?

    $ strengthened half a cent against £ at that point and all debt yield went up.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,921
    Sandpit said:

    It’s a good job that England can bat deep…

    I presume we are going to turn up at this latest ICC tournament for the money? Despite the embarrassment. Dear oh dear.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,171
    Nigelb said:

    That's Panama.
    Aha. As well as Washington DC.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,171
    HYUFD said:

    NATO also includes Canada and the UK and Norway, unlike the EU
    I'd see NATO without the USA being more likely.

    There are some complications such as the possibility of Mr Trump threatening to turn off all the F35s.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,936
    HYUFD said:

    NATO also includes Canada and the UK and Norway, unlike the EU
    Both Canada and Norway are currently under threat from the US.
  • WinchyWinchy Posts: 130
    edited February 12
    MattW said:

    They all seem well-evidenced and quite reasonable, to me.

    The only thing that I can see is off is the reference to an aspirational tinpot dictator in CENTRAL America !
    You mean Abbie Hoffman was wrong to write "Amerika is just another Latin dictatorship"?

    Trump is a fucking nutter. Greenland, drinking straws, and sharks FFS. And a death march "someplace else" solution to Palestine where Palestinians will live "happily and very safely".

    What I'd like to know is how he feels about "Number Five" in Guatemala, who died on 14 June 1946.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Palace_(Guatemala)

    Musk is not an idiot (obviously). Neither is Trump.
    Musk is a nutter, though. Someone worth half a trillion USD can't not be a nutter. Cf. all dictators have been nutters without exception.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,858
    Boeing might be about to lose another significant revenue stream.

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=392105
    ...Korea has been seeking to buy 36 more AH-64E Apache attack helicopters, as well as logistics and program support, at an estimated cost of $3.5 billion. The government-to-government Foreign Military Sale was approved by the U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency in August.

    However, in recent months, there has been speculation that the Korean military is reconsidering the purchase amid rising skepticism about attack helicopters in modern warfare. In light of the Russia-Ukraine war, where helicopters have suffered a high number of losses, lighter and more cost-effective unmanned aerial vehicles have gained prominence...


    A new Apache order means operating them for decades; drone capability is evolving every year.
    And $3.5bn is a lot of cash.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,109
    viewcode said:

    Damien Walter thinks Elon is poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LQa28X-1AQ (30 mins)

    As someone who seems to have been fairly early in the Elon-is-a-shit stakes, I do wonder at why some people still seem to worship the nasty lying POS.

    Is it financial? Do they think they'll benefit financially from Musk's words and actions? Or is it a stupid "rockets are cool!!!" view (*)? Or do they agree with what appears to be his worldview?

    One thing seems clear: increasing numbers are on my trajectory, than the opposite.

    (*) In which case, they would have seen Hitler as cool...
  • Not sure that's true. Model Y and Model 3 were 1st and 2nd in EV sales in December. A lot of focus on January sales, but Tesla always sell sell at the start of the quarter.
    One of my neighbours has a BYD :open_mouth:
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612
    Usaid inspector General responsible for looking into waste and fraud has been fired just a day after flagging USAID now has much less ability to ensure money doesn't go to terrorists.

    I wonder why Musk and Trump don't want govt to be able to investigate fraud and corruption?
  • NEW THREAD

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,936

    As someone who seems to have been fairly early in the Elon-is-a-shit stakes, I do wonder at why some people still seem to worship the nasty lying POS.

    Is it financial? Do they think they'll benefit financially from Musk's words and actions? Or is it a stupid "rockets are cool!!!" view (*)? Or do they agree with what appears to be his worldview?

    One thing seems clear: increasing numbers are on my trajectory, than the opposite.

    (*) In which case, they would have seen Hitler as cool...
    I tend to settle on "people are as bad as they are allowed to be and as good as they are made to be"
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,202
    Nigelb said:

    That's Panama.
    A man, a plan, a canal - Panama Trump :disappointed:
  • Nigelb said:

    You need to work on your reading comprehension.

    "But he also said he thought the judge had made the wrong decision. That's incompatible with closing a loophole."


    "No it isn't.
    As I pointed out above, laws conflict and produce uncertainties, which is what seems to have happened here. You can think a judgment got the balance wrong, and at the same time recognise that the only way to rectify that might be legislation.
    No doubt they're trying to work out whether it's worth the time an appeal might take, along with the uncertain outcome, or whether it's simply more efficient to produce yet more legislation..."

    Are you Kemi ?
    That comment was not from me and your returning comment was not to me.

    It's also doesn't mean you are right, just have a different opinion. You can do both - appeal, saying there is no loophole, the judgement is wrong, or produce new legislation to cover this loophole.

    So...what is the loophole, where is the legislation?

    Also, note you are still avoiding answering the question, did he say he was appealing or not? Are you Keir?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,821
    MattW said:

    He's overreaching. just as Mr Trump did when he started threatening Jordan and Eqypt to try and make them do things that would result in significant damage to them as safe and secure countries (such as they are). Mt Trump has shredded the peace process, again - such as it is.

    Hegseth is behaving like Peppermint Patty with a brainstorm, and undermining any potential Ukrainian negototation.

    In the short term he will make it impossible.

    In the medium term he will force Europe to work out how to be independent of the USA and self-reliant. It's a recipe for self-marginalisation for the USA; they are less predominant than he thinks they are.

    Just as with USAID, they are washing away the foundations of their international influence - collection of fucking clowns.
    To compare part of the gangster oligarchy to Peppermint Patty is not acceptable. PP is one of the giants of cartoon comic strip world. A bit dim but someone whose heart is full of well meaning and love. Anyone who wonders how different she is from Hegseth, and why her father, as I would be, is proud of his 'rare gem' could start here:

    https://schulzmuseum.org/peppermint-patty-rare-gem/
  • Nigelb said:

    You need to work on your reading comprehension.

    "But he also said he thought the judge had made the wrong decision. That's incompatible with closing a loophole."


    "No it isn't.
    As I pointed out above, laws conflict and produce uncertainties, which is what seems to have happened here. You can think a judgment got the balance wrong, and at the same time recognise that the only way to rectify that might be legislation.
    No doubt they're trying to work out whether it's worth the time an appeal might take, along with the uncertain outcome, or whether it's simply more efficient to produce yet more legislation..."

    Are you Kemi ?
    He's somebody. Perhaps arguing with me on here will change the reality of this:
    Tories ineptly draft legislation
    Lawyers use that legislation in a way not intended
    Tories whine and moan at Starmer
    Starmer says he will tighten the law to prevent a repeat.

    Problem for the Tories that this starts and finishes with them. A shit law and a shit leader. But nom, can I detail the loophole please? Erm, no. I'm irrelevant to this.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,171
    Winchy said:

    You mean Abbie Hoffman was wrong to write "Amerika is just another Latin dictatorship"?

    Trump is a fucking nutter. Greenland, drinking straws, and sharks FFS. And a death march "someplace else" solution to Palestine where Palestinians will live "happily and very safely".

    What I'd like to know is how he feels about "Number Five" in Guatemala, who died on 14 June 1946.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Palace_(Guatemala)

    Musk is not an idiot (obviously). Neither is Trump.
    Musk is a nutter, though. Someone worth half a trillion USD can't not be a nutter. Cf. all dictators have been nutters without exception.
    If I had to choose a comparator, I'm currently quite favourable to Amin's Uganda.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,392
    DavidL said:

    I presume we are going to turn up at this latest ICC tournament for the money? Despite the embarrassment. Dear oh dear.
    Dear oh dear indeed! Couple of years ago England were, if not best in the world, then not far away.
    Now.......
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,171
    edited February 12
    algarkirk said:

    To compare part of the gangster oligarchy to Peppermint Patty is not acceptable. PP is one of the giants of cartoon comic strip world. A bit dim but someone whose heart is full of well meaning and love. Anyone who wonders how different she is from Hegseth, and why her father, as I would be, is proud of his 'rare gem' could start here:

    https://schulzmuseum.org/peppermint-patty-rare-gem/
    :smile:

    I need a cartoon comparator.

    I wonder about Mr Magoo or the Wollllfff, or one of the Whacky Racers or Pigeon Catchers.

    Or is there a suitable South Park Psychopath?

    Fred Flintstone has already been bagsied by Lee Anderson.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,395

    Dear oh dear indeed! Couple of years ago England were, if not best in the world, then not far away.
    Now.......
    It never felt entirely convincing though did it?

    Odd tournament ahead.
  • This blog is a valuable resource for readers.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,991
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy5k6gk50qvo

    I didn't know there was a war in Munich...
This discussion has been closed.