The Trump legacy, the UK chooses Europe over the open sea? – politicalbetting.com

viewcode said:

Senator John Kennedy (the junior United States senator from Louisiana) has objections to the Chagos Islands deal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0FKJ1zyRSY

StillWaters said:

bondegezou said:

StillWaters said:

bondegezou said:

https://www.wired.com/story/kash-patel-elite-depot-shein/

Trump's FBI pick, Kash Patel, won't divest himself of shares in Chinese company that represent a conflict of interest.

Why does it represent a conflict of interest per se?

“Hi, boss. Should we continue this investigation into Shein?”

*Then* it would be a conflict.

But how often does the FBI investigate companies rather than individuals?

Leon said:

Driver said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Gardenwalker said:

Eabhal said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

No, it's a process of othering ie demonisation.

Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.

It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.

But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.

The activist in person is probably a pest.
You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.

It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.

When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”

This is silly.
The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke.
For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.

So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?

No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets

We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads

Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on

If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder

Hmm. I'm kind of minded to agree with that... but this went on for over two years, I understand, which would seem to be plenty of time to learn how to behave,

On the upside at least this might teach lefties to stop being utter prigs and hypocrites. Or so we can hope

Malmesbury said:

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

Unfortunately that is not it

There is much more

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/08/health-minister-andrew-gwynne-sacked-over-whatsapp-comments?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

There’s really nothing in there that’s actually offensive or outrageous.

Albeit, it’s probably simply stupid to post such things as an MP.

Are you serious ?

Starmer has not instantly sacked him and condemned his remarks if he took your view

I never thought you would be an apologist for someone who makes rascist, antisemitic and wishing death on a pensioner remarks

The remarks are really only horrific, racist and antisemitism if you are a professional offense-monger.

I accept, however, that the UK is full of snowflakes and communicating such remarks is no longer compatible with being in the Ministry.

I assume you do not know all the comments Gwynne made not least in regard to his colleagues Dianne Abbott and Angela Rayner [which I am not repeating ] plus his antisemitic remarks about Jews.

The problem is that Gwynne's remarks as I understand it span a two year period and involve at least another Labour mp and Labour councillors no doubt all of whom did not expect them to be leaked to the Daily Mail at which point they become public knowledge, and certainly in Gwynne's case are seen as unacceptable but also the consequences for Labour as demonstrated by Trevor Philips this morning is who is the other Labour mp and why wasn't he/she been sacked as well

It remains to be seen whether sacking Gwynne has ended the story

A shiny sixpence says that worse remarks have been made by someone in the Mail's editorial offices in the last 24 hours. Because that's what high-pressure workplaces are like.

In reality, Gwynne has been sacked for being stupid, and for making his party look bad, not for the inherent awfulness of his thoughts.

Remember kids- if it's on the internet, it's potentially there forever.

The *written* word will follow you to the grave.

Oh, and email is less secure than sending a postcard.

Gardenwalker said:

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

No, it's a process of othering ie demonisation.

Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.

It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.

But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.

The activist in person is probably a pest.
You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.

"The activist in person is probably a pest."

You do realise how stupid that makes you sound?

Activists are always pests.

Imagine the fun of running a town council in the 1850s, and Cassius Clay turns up to give a speech on his personal hobby horse.

This will nearly inevitably end up in a fight. On a number of previous occasions Clay has stabbed (and killed) people in such fights.

He has written a book, boasting of this.

The venue will be wrecked, maybe even burnt down. And the town will suffer a full riot, quite possibly.

Activists, eh?

I have no idea what this analogy is supposed to mean, but I’d hope to defend the town councillors right to pass a joke about Cassius Clay.

Battlebus said:

Off topic slightly and something that puzzles me somewhat - why is there no party standing up for an English Parliament? Your could do away with the HoL and make Westminster the upper Chamber. If Reform were to suggest it, would that kill one-nation Conservatism.

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

No, it's a process of othering ie demonisation.

Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.

It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.

But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.

The activist in person is probably a pest.
You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.

"The activist in person is probably a pest."

You do realise how stupid that makes you sound?

Activists are always pests.

Imagine the fun of running a town council in the 1850s, and Cassius Clay turns up to give a speech on his personal hobby horse.

This will nearly inevitably end up in a fight. On a number of previous occasions Clay has stabbed (and killed) people in such fights.

He has written a book, boasting of this.

The venue will be wrecked, maybe even burnt down. And the town will suffer a full riot, quite possibly.

Activists, eh?

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

No, it's a process of othering ie demonisation.

Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.

It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.

But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.

The activist in person is probably a pest.
You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.

"The activist in person is probably a pest."

You do realise how stupid that makes you sound?

Activists are always pests.

Imagine the fun of running a town council in the 1850s, and Cassius Clay turns up to give a speech on his personal hobby horse.

This will nearly inevitably end up in a fight. On a number of previous occasions Clay has stabbed (and killed) people in such fights.

He has written a book, boasting of this.

The venue will be wrecked, maybe even burnt down. And the town will suffer a full riot, quite possibly.

Activists, eh?

... oh, you meant Cassius *Marcellus* Clay. Not the other one. Makes a lot more sense now.

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

No, it's a process of othering ie demonisation.

Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.

It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.

But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.

The activist in person is probably a pest.
You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.

"The activist in person is probably a pest."

You do realise how stupid that makes you sound?

Activists are always pests.

Imagine the fun of running a town council in the 1850s, and Cassius Clay turns up to give a speech on his personal hobby horse.

This will nearly inevitably end up in a fight. On a number of previous occasions Clay has stabbed (and killed) people in such fights.

He has written a book, boasting of this.

The venue will be wrecked, maybe even burnt down. And the town will suffer a full riot, quite possibly.

Activists, eh?

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

No, it's a process of othering ie demonisation.

Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.

It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.

But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.

The activist in person is probably a pest.
You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.

"The activist in person is probably a pest."

You do realise how stupid that makes you sound?

Activists are always pests.

Imagine the fun of running a town council in the 1850s, and Cassius Clay turns up to give a speech on his personal hobby horse.

This will nearly inevitably end up in a fight. On a number of previous occasions Clay has stabbed (and killed) people in such fights.

He has written a book, boasting of this.

The venue will be wrecked, maybe even burnt down. And the town will suffer a full riot, quite possibly.

Activists, eh?

... oh, you meant Cassius *Marcellus* Clay. Not the other one. Makes a lot more sense now.

“1850s”??

MattW said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Gardenwalker said:

Eabhal said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

No, it's a process of othering ie demonisation.

Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.

It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.

But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.

The activist in person is probably a pest.
You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.

It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.

When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”

This is silly.
The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke.
For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.

So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?

No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets

We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads

Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on

If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder

For the DOGE kid, I'm more concerned about his being granted access to classified information (UK equivalent would perhaps be the entire HMRC or DVLA database), and the Trump/Musk regime's belief that it is OK to do this with no security clearance in basic violation of the law.

But those are simply the values of the regime.

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

You mean, like Borley Rectory was, and was?

Gardenwalker said:

JosiasJessop said:

Driver said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Gardenwalker said:

Eabhal said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

No, it's a process of othering ie demonisation.

Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.

It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.

But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.

The activist in person is probably a pest.
You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.

It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.

When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”

This is silly.
The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke.
For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.

So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?

No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets

We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads

Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on

If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder

Hmm. I'm kind of minded to agree with that... but this went on for over two years, I understand, which would seem to be plenty of time to learn how to behave,

A question is whether the other people on the group told him he was out of order and complained, or whether some of them encouraged him. If it was a place where nasty/ribald/out of order comments were made by many people and mostly ignored (*), then it is *slightly* more excusable than if it was a forum where people were trying to organise or achieve things and he just repeatedly went off one one.

(*) As happens on here on occasion, including from me...

Actually, you’ve repeatedly been told that “Musky Baby” is totally unacceptable.

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

Unfortunately that is not it

There is much more

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/08/health-minister-andrew-gwynne-sacked-over-whatsapp-comments?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

There’s really nothing in there that’s actually offensive or outrageous.

Albeit, it’s probably simply stupid to post such things as an MP.

Are you serious ?

Starmer has not instantly sacked him and condemned his remarks if he took your view

I never thought you would be an apologist for someone who makes rascist, antisemitic and wishing death on a pensioner remarks

The remarks are really only horrific, racist and antisemitism if you are a professional offense-monger.

I accept, however, that the UK is full of snowflakes and communicating such remarks is no longer compatible with being in the Ministry.

I assume you do not know all the comments Gwynne made not least in regard to his colleagues Dianne Abbott and Angela Rayner [which I am not repeating ] plus his antisemitic remarks about Jews.

The problem is that Gwynne's remarks as I understand it span a two year period and involve at least another Labour mp and Labour councillors no doubt all of whom did not expect them to be leaked to the Daily Mail at which point they become public knowledge, and certainly in Gwynne's case are seen as unacceptable but also the consequences for Labour as demonstrated by Trevor Philips this morning is who is the other Labour mp and why wasn't he/she been sacked as well

It remains to be seen whether sacking Gwynne has ended the story

A shiny sixpence says that worse remarks have been made by someone in the Mail's editorial offices in the last 24 hours. Because that's what high-pressure workplaces are like.

In reality, Gwynne has been sacked for being stupid, and for making his party look bad, not for the inherent awfulness of his thoughts.

Remember kids- if it's on the internet, it's potentially there forever.

The *written* word will follow you to the grave.

Oh, and email is less secure than sending a postcard.

Email is extremely secure.
As a record which is extremely difficult to scrub.

StillWaters said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Mexicanpete said:

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

No, it's a process of othering ie demonisation.

Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.

It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.

But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.

I fwiiw, believe Gwynne's commentary is unacceptable and unprofessional and he should have gone. In an earlier, less febrile time I am sure he could have passed it off as "satire".

Far from condemning Gwynne, his transparency should be applauded.
Politicians should be obliged to tweet at least 100 times a day so we'd know what really lies behind the 360° smirk. QEI complained she couldn't see into men's souls. We've solved that problem.

I don’t think QEI was complaining. She had no desire to look into men’s souls.

An early version of Clinton’s “don’t ask, don’t tell”?

Battlebus said:

Off topic slightly and something that puzzles me somewhat - why is there no party standing up for an English Parliament? Your could do away with the HoL and make Westminster the upper Chamber. If Reform were to suggest it, would that kill one-nation Conservatism.

MattW said:

Scott_xP said:

MattW said:

As in eg Uganda under Amin, the independent judiciary, and independent institutions such as churches, will be the last bulwarks of a free society that can continue to exist.

You haven't seen the Whitehouse Faith Advisor then

"Any offence against Trump is an offence against God..."

I saw the full Trump address at the National Prayer Breakfast.

I can't source that quote, but I'm assuming it comes from his "Faith Adviser" Paula White, who is a Megachurch Minister with a private jet, who is associated with the "Word of Faith" movement aka Prosperity Gospel. It flourishes in wealthy circles in the USA because it gives a theology justifying being rich, and staying rich. It has it's origins in characters such as Kenneth Hagin, and Kenneth Hopeland - and arguably before that Oral Roberts, and more recently Benny Hinn. PBers may be more familiar with the latter two.

Bluntly, I'd call it a perversion of Christian doctrine. It tends not to do well in the UK because UK Evangelical circles have a far more integrated social concern tradition going back to at least Wesley, and our society is less Balkanised by wealth than the USA.

Trump's support afaics comes from some Evangelicals who I term Trumpvangelicals, who tend to be concentrated in charismatic megachurches, places such as "Reformed" churches which embrace dogmas making women second class humans ("Male Headship"), and conservative / charismatic denominations - anti-abortion movement heartlands, and parts of the Roman Catholic Right (where JD Vance comes from, and where eg Opus Dei are influential in the Federalist Society).

Trump also has some sort of "faith task group" in the White House; I am not sure who they are yet. He's embracing caricatured "protect white people" policies already - as eg in his assault on the new (quite reasonable - I posted an analysis from RC Bishops) Compulsory Purchase law in South Africa. I assume the latter is motivated by Musk.

I'd expect some figures to emerge to speak against Trump who will be the equivalent of Archbishop Desmond Tutu, as they will be in time be some of the few who will have platforms he cannot destroy from which to make criticisms - even though false narratives are already being propagated about for example the Lutheran Church.

I'd be interested in comment from @HYUFD or others, who may have knowledge in this area.

Scott_xP said:

MattW said:

Trump also has some sort of "faith task group" in the White House; I am not sure who they are yet.

@RpsAgainstTrump

“To say no to President Trump would be to say no to God.”

Meet televangelist Paula White, who Donald Trump just appointed to lead the White House ‘Faith Office.’

This is not normal.

https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1888106904137699827

Leon said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

Excellent series. The first is on iPlayer as well. You may think it's bunkum, but it's very entertaining.

Yeah it’s great. A lot of the stories are quite easily explicable (but still entertaining). A few stand out as Whoah

The Battersea Poltergeist was one. Also that terrifying Scottish bothy. And now Hollymount Farm. Brrrr

Danny Robbins is a very gifted presenter - likeable and plausible. Never sensational

MattW said:

Scott_xP said:

MattW said:

As in eg Uganda under Amin, the independent judiciary, and independent institutions such as churches, will be the last bulwarks of a free society that can continue to exist.

You haven't seen the Whitehouse Faith Advisor then

"Any offence against Trump is an offence against God..."

I saw the full Trump address at the National Prayer Breakfast.

I can't source that quote, but I'm assuming it comes from his "Faith Adviser" Paula White, who is a Megachurch Minister with a private jet, who is associated with the "Word of Faith" movement aka Prosperity Gospel. It flourishes in wealthy circles in the USA because it gives a theology justifying being rich, and staying rich. It has it's origins in characters such as Kenneth Hagin, and Kenneth Hopeland - and arguably before that Oral Roberts, and more recently Benny Hinn. PBers may be more familiar with the latter two.

Bluntly, I'd call it a perversion of Christian doctrine. It tends not to do well in the UK because UK Evangelical circles have a far more integrated social concern tradition going back to at least Wesley, and our society is less Balkanised by wealth than the USA.

Trump's support afaics comes from some Evangelicals who I term Trumpvangelicals, who tend to be concentrated in charismatic megachurches, places such as "Reformed" churches which embrace dogmas making women second class humans ("Male Headship"), and conservative / charismatic denominations - anti-abortion movement heartlands, and parts of the Roman Catholic Right (where JD Vance comes from, and where eg Opus Dei are influential in the Federalist Society).

Trump also has some sort of "faith task group" in the White House; I am not sure who they are yet. He's embracing caricatured "protect white people" policies already - as eg in his assault on the new (quite reasonable - I posted an analysis from RC Bishops) Compulsory Purchase law in South Africa. I assume the latter is motivated by Musk.

I'd expect some figures to emerge to speak against Trump who will be the equivalent of Archbishop Desmond Tutu, as they will be in time be some of the few who will have platforms he cannot destroy from which to make criticisms - even though false narratives are already being propagated about for example the Lutheran Church.

I'd be interested in comment from @HYUFD or others, who may have knowledge in this area.

Nigelb said:

LOL

Trump 2 is oddly passionate about crypto, mass layoffs, and the plight of the white South African. I wonder what changed with him.
https://x.com/agraybee/status/1888350143839121724

Leon said:

CharlieShark said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

Uncanny is one of my unexpected best TV programmes at the moment, loved the first series. Kids (well, more my son) mocked it when I explained about it and that they might enjoy. They were quickly engrossed. We'll probably watch next episode today.

No idea if bull or not, but I think the people involved believe it, even if they can't explain it.

Hollymount Farm (if you’ve not seen it) is PROPERLY creepy. Even scary

As with all the best ones, and as you say - it’s the plain spoken rationality of the witnesses which most unnerves. These are ordinary but intelligent people with no interest in the paranormal - who have seen something truly frightening that they can’t explain, and which appears - prima facie - to be supernatural

Even if you dismiss all of it is as bollocks it’s compelling as a study of human psychology

Sean_F said:

Leon said:

CharlieShark said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

Uncanny is one of my unexpected best TV programmes at the moment, loved the first series. Kids (well, more my son) mocked it when I explained about it and that they might enjoy. They were quickly engrossed. We'll probably watch next episode today.

No idea if bull or not, but I think the people involved believe it, even if they can't explain it.

Hollymount Farm (if you’ve not seen it) is PROPERLY creepy. Even scary

As with all the best ones, and as you say - it’s the plain spoken rationality of the witnesses which most unnerves. These are ordinary but intelligent people with no interest in the paranormal - who have seen something truly frightening that they can’t explain, and which appears - prima facie - to be supernatural

Even if you dismiss all of it is as bollocks it’s compelling as a study of human psychology

I do not know exactly what ghosts might be, but I’ve heard enough rational people describe things that can only be described in supernatural terms.

You yourself have commented about the atmosphere of oppressive horror, at Babi Yar.

biggles said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

Excellent series. The first is on iPlayer as well. You may think it's bunkum, but it's very entertaining.

Yeah it’s great. A lot of the stories are quite easily explicable (but still entertaining). A few stand out as Whoah

The Battersea Poltergeist was one. Also that terrifying Scottish bothy. And now Hollymount Farm. Brrrr

Danny Robbins is a very gifted presenter - likeable and plausible. Never sensational

Bothies can be deeply unsettling if you're by yourself, no signal and more than a day's walk away from civilisation.

It’s all nonsense. Good fun but nonsense.

The guy who presents Uncanny is fairly decent (although seeing him on tv makes me think of D:Ream); however for me to even vaguely consider the possibility of a ghost it would have to appear in front on me, in broad daylight, and consent to a range of tests in lab conditions. And even then my reaction would be “that’s a bloody good illusion”.

The story always involves someone in a dark, unsettling location, under psychological pressure and/or in search of an easy answer to explain a more profound trauma.

To summarise: I ain’t afraid of no ghost.

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

CharlieShark said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

Uncanny is one of my unexpected best TV programmes at the moment, loved the first series. Kids (well, more my son) mocked it when I explained about it and that they might enjoy. They were quickly engrossed. We'll probably watch next episode today.

No idea if bull or not, but I think the people involved believe it, even if they can't explain it.

Hollymount Farm (if you’ve not seen it) is PROPERLY creepy. Even scary

As with all the best ones, and as you say - it’s the plain spoken rationality of the witnesses which most unnerves. These are ordinary but intelligent people with no interest in the paranormal - who have seen something truly frightening that they can’t explain, and which appears - prima facie - to be supernatural

Even if you dismiss all of it is as bollocks it’s compelling as a study of human psychology

It’s fascinating. I am a skeptic, don’t believe that ghosts exist but I cannot deny this kind of testimony. The most interesting series that Robbins has done, in my opinion, was the Witch Farm, centred on a farm in the Brecon Beacons. So much stuff going on over years and yet the people who bought the place afterwards report precisely zero activity of any kind. How to explain that? Some would say that certain people are able to see and hear ghosts, others might argue that they are more susceptible to imagining things.
I often wonder how much false memory plays into this. Events as described cannot have happened on their own - objects moving etc. but did they happen as described?

Nigelb said:

.

MattW said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Gardenwalker said:

Eabhal said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

No, it's a process of othering ie demonisation.

Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.

It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.

But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.

The activist in person is probably a pest.
You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.

It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.

When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”

This is silly.
The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke.
For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.

So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?

No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets

We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads

Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on

If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder

For the DOGE kid, I'm more concerned about his being granted access to classified information (UK equivalent would perhaps be the entire HMRC or DVLA database), and the Trump/Musk regime's belief that it is OK to do this with no security clearance in basic violation of the law.

But those are simply the values of the regime.

Was 'Big Balls' the racist, or the one who was previously sacked for leaking confidential information ?

Scott_xP said:

Nigelb said:

LOL

Trump 2 is oddly passionate about crypto, mass layoffs, and the plight of the white South African. I wonder what changed with him.
https://x.com/agraybee/status/1888350143839121724

There is a future in which the supposed guardrails of democracy and legality in the US hold, as they mostly did last time

But there is also a (much more likely) future in which neither are true.

I am not convinced enough people are freaking out to the required degree about this...

Nigelb said:

"Do you think Elon Musk is honest and trustworthy?"

No: 42%
Yes: 31%

Unsure: 27%

YouGov / Feb 6, 2025 / n=1106
https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1888360258919113171

I expect that unsure number to drop rapidly.

MattW said:

Nigelb said:

.

MattW said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Gardenwalker said:

Eabhal said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:

A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:

“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'

Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”

https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z

Is that it? It’s simple black humour.

No, it's a process of othering ie demonisation.

Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.

It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.

But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.

The activist in person is probably a pest.
You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.

It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.

When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”

This is silly.
The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke.
For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.

So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?

No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets

We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads

Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on

If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder

For the DOGE kid, I'm more concerned about his being granted access to classified information (UK equivalent would perhaps be the entire HMRC or DVLA database), and the Trump/Musk regime's belief that it is OK to do this with no security clearance in basic violation of the law.

But those are simply the values of the regime.

Was 'Big Balls' the racist, or the one who was previously sacked for leaking confidential information ?

I'm not totally au fait with all the details - but this is a partial summary:

There is a 25 year old called Marko Elez who was allowed Read Only access under the initial interim injunction, who resigned when his posts promoting eugenics and racism came out. He is thought to have obtained write access and to have been recoding parts of the national payments systems. He was reinstated one day later.

Big Balls was one social media pseudonym of a 19 year old called 19-year-old Edward Coristine, who had been sacked from a previous employer for leaking confidential information to a competitor.

I am not aware that Coristine has been sacked since he is afaics ruled out of access by the temporary injunction.

Source (one amongst many):https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/08/elon-musk-doge-team-staff

Nigelb said:

"Do you think Elon Musk is honest and trustworthy?"

No: 42%
Yes: 31%

Unsure: 27%

YouGov / Feb 6, 2025 / n=1106
https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1888360258919113171

I expect that unsure number to drop rapidly.

biggles said:

Nigelb said:

"Do you think Elon Musk is honest and trustworthy?"

No: 42%
Yes: 31%

Unsure: 27%

YouGov / Feb 6, 2025 / n=1106
https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1888360258919113171

I expect that unsure number to drop rapidly.

To be fair, I think he’s honest. I don’t think he hides his malign intent.

biggles said:

Nigelb said:

"Do you think Elon Musk is honest and trustworthy?"

No: 42%
Yes: 31%

Unsure: 27%

YouGov / Feb 6, 2025 / n=1106
https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1888360258919113171

I expect that unsure number to drop rapidly.

To be fair, I think he’s honest. I don’t think he hides his malign intent.

MoonRabbit said:

bigjohnowls said:

Nigelb said:

"Do you think Elon Musk is honest and trustworthy?"

No: 42%
Yes: 31%

Unsure: 27%

YouGov / Feb 6, 2025 / n=1106
https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1888360258919113171

I expect that unsure number to drop rapidly.

Do you think Elon Musk is a C**t?"

Yes 87%
No 1%
Unsure 12%

BJO Poll Feb 9th 2025

Elon Musk please explain.

Leon said:

Sean_F said:

Leon said:

CharlieShark said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

Uncanny is one of my unexpected best TV programmes at the moment, loved the first series. Kids (well, more my son) mocked it when I explained about it and that they might enjoy. They were quickly engrossed. We'll probably watch next episode today.

No idea if bull or not, but I think the people involved believe it, even if they can't explain it.

Hollymount Farm (if you’ve not seen it) is PROPERLY creepy. Even scary

As with all the best ones, and as you say - it’s the plain spoken rationality of the witnesses which most unnerves. These are ordinary but intelligent people with no interest in the paranormal - who have seen something truly frightening that they can’t explain, and which appears - prima facie - to be supernatural

Even if you dismiss all of it is as bollocks it’s compelling as a study of human psychology

I do not know exactly what ghosts might be, but I’ve heard enough rational people describe things that can only be described in supernatural terms.

You yourself have commented about the atmosphere of oppressive horror, at Babi Yar.

Yes. Hence my whole concept of “noom”

I can easily be persuaded that intense human emotions can pervade places in ways we don’t understand. The idea we’ve got the entire universe sorted and comprehended is facile. Physicists can’t agree if we live in a vast simulation or an infinite series of universes - or something simply beyond our ken

We are also only beginning to grasp the intense mystery of consciousness itself and how it is intimately yet weirdly bound up with the fabric of “reality”

Humility with an open mind is the only way to approach this stuff. And I HATE being humble

algarkirk said:

Scott_xP said:

Nigelb said:

LOL

Trump 2 is oddly passionate about crypto, mass layoffs, and the plight of the white South African. I wonder what changed with him.
https://x.com/agraybee/status/1888350143839121724

There is a future in which the supposed guardrails of democracy and legality in the US hold, as they mostly did last time

But there is also a (much more likely) future in which neither are true.

I am not convinced enough people are freaking out to the required degree about this...

Yes. There is a very precise thing to watch; and I hope the media do their job.

turbotubbs said:

MoonRabbit said:

bigjohnowls said:

Nigelb said:

"Do you think Elon Musk is honest and trustworthy?"

No: 42%
Yes: 31%

Unsure: 27%

YouGov / Feb 6, 2025 / n=1106
https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1888360258919113171

I expect that unsure number to drop rapidly.

Do you think Elon Musk is a C**t?"

Yes 87%
No 1%
Unsure 12%

BJO Poll Feb 9th 2025

Elon Musk please explain.

Who is unsure?

BartholomewRoberts said:

bigjohnowls said:

Nigelb said:

"Do you think Elon Musk is honest and trustworthy?"

No: 42%
Yes: 31%

Unsure: 27%

YouGov / Feb 6, 2025 / n=1106
https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1888360258919113171

I expect that unsure number to drop rapidly.

Do you think Elon Musk is a C**t?"

Yes 87%
No 1%
Unsure 12%

BJO Poll Feb 9th 2025

No he's not, having neither the depth nor warmth.

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

CharlieShark said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

Uncanny is one of my unexpected best TV programmes at the moment, loved the first series. Kids (well, more my son) mocked it when I explained about it and that they might enjoy. They were quickly engrossed. We'll probably watch next episode today.

No idea if bull or not, but I think the people involved believe it, even if they can't explain it.

Hollymount Farm (if you’ve not seen it) is PROPERLY creepy. Even scary

As with all the best ones, and as you say - it’s the plain spoken rationality of the witnesses which most unnerves. These are ordinary but intelligent people with no interest in the paranormal - who have seen something truly frightening that they can’t explain, and which appears - prima facie - to be supernatural

Even if you dismiss all of it is as bollocks it’s compelling as a study of human psychology

It’s fascinating. I am a skeptic, don’t believe that ghosts exist but I cannot deny this kind of testimony. The most interesting series that Robbins has done, in my opinion, was the Witch Farm, centred on a farm in the Brecon Beacons. So much stuff going on over years and yet the people who bought the place afterwards report precisely zero activity of any kind. How to explain that? Some would say that certain people are able to see and hear ghosts, others might argue that they are more susceptible to imagining things.
I often wonder how much false memory plays into this. Events as described cannot have happened on their own - objects moving etc. but did they happen as described?

Witch Farm was great. Proper goosebumps

I think Hollymount might be better. But then it might be better because it’s a better story - and we all love a good story and will willingly suspend our disbelief to get that enjoyment

I have generally found the early Uncannies betterthat later ones. There was one with Daisy May Cooper which felt like a parody, as if she was using the show for some reason. A bit like the first ever season of Big Brother, where the contestants had no prior knowledge compared to later series where they all did. I worry now that some people might be trying to get on the show.

Yes I agree. Also it’s a first album syndrome

When a band makes the first album they have all the great songs they’ve acquired in the years leading up to that - and they all go on that first effort

For many it’s the peak moment then downhill

However check Hollymount

turbotubbs said:

biggles said:

Leon said:

biggles said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

Excellent series. The first is on iPlayer as well. You may think it's bunkum, but it's very entertaining.

Yeah it’s great. A lot of the stories are quite easily explicable (but still entertaining). A few stand out as Whoah

The Battersea Poltergeist was one. Also that terrifying Scottish bothy. And now Hollymount Farm. Brrrr

Danny Robbins is a very gifted presenter - likeable and plausible. Never sensational

Bothies can be deeply unsettling if you're by yourself, no signal and more than a day's walk away from civilisation.

It’s all nonsense. Good fun but nonsense.

The guy who presents Uncanny is fairly decent (although seeing him on tv makes me think of D:Ream); however for me to even vaguely consider the possibility of a ghost it would have to appear in front on me, in broad daylight, and consent to a range of tests in lab conditions. And even then my reaction would be “that’s a bloody good illusion”.

The story always involves someone in a dark, unsettling location, under psychological pressure and/or in search of an easy answer to explain a more profound trauma.

To summarise: I ain’t afraid of no ghost.

For me this is as ludicrously over-confident as someone who insists that QAnon is real

How can you know? How many people screen out jarring or bizarre visual evidence simply because it makes no sense? To their world view?

Check the gorilla on the basketball court - a famous experiment

Or think back to how many people dismissed the idea of a global Covid pandemic until the last moment - because it had never happened before and therefore could never happen

Read the actual words. I am applying sensible scepticism which used to be mainstream until the West started going weird (insert essay here about the death of mainstream religion having a bad side as well as a good one).

If you want me to develop the point, what I am saying is this: no matter how credible the individual seems, if they report that an object moved by itself or a person appeared and disappearing, there are many KNOWN explanations we can reach for before we toy with an unknown one.

I am scientist. I would love us to discover a new complexity to the universe. And as you say, in many ways we know nothing. But anything we discover must be measured and codified to prove that it is something new. Otherwise, we might as well go back to pagan gods.

Ghosts, in the sense of the dead speaking to the living, must also answer the same logic challenge as UFOs. Why do so cryptically and not in the open in front of everyone? If my grandparents could speak to me from beyond the veil, I am confident they would do just that. Politely knock on the door and come in for a chat.

If they are meant to be a sort of “psychic imprint” then why aren’t they everywhere?

Houdini famously said that he would come back if it was possible.
He didn’t.

One of the issues with a lot of the more exotic interpretations of Fortean style events is that they are often nice sounding ideas with no basis in reality or means to test. A classic is Stone Tape Theory. How do you test such an idea? The believer on the show spouts such things all the time as if they are accepted ideas akin to scientifically proven and tested ideas. They are not.

viewcode said:

MattW said:

algarkirk said:

Scott_xP said:

Nigelb said:

LOL

Trump 2 is oddly passionate about crypto, mass layoffs, and the plight of the white South African. I wonder what changed with him.
https://x.com/agraybee/status/1888350143839121724

There is a future in which the supposed guardrails of democracy and legality in the US hold, as they mostly did last time

But there is also a (much more likely) future in which neither are true.

I am not convinced enough people are freaking out to the required degree about this...

Yes. There is a very precise thing to watch; and I hope the media do their job.

A huge problem there is that non-compliant media are being systematically excluded:

The Pentagon just doubled the number of media “rotating out” from 4 to 8 to “make room for other outlets.”

OUT- NYT, WAPO, NBC, CNN, POLITICO, THE HILL, THE WAR ZONE, NPR

IN: NY Post, Washington Examiner
TV, OAN, Newsmax, HuffPo, The Free Press, The Daily Caller, Breitbart
https://x.com/KellieMeyerNews/status/1888020207731622069

(For me, the War Zone is notable. I'm not sure about HuffPo.)

Anybody who thinks The War Zone shouldn't be read in a defence context is not serious.

Leon said:

biggles said:

Leon said:

biggles said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

Excellent series. The first is on iPlayer as well. You may think it's bunkum, but it's very entertaining.

Yeah it’s great. A lot of the stories are quite easily explicable (but still entertaining). A few stand out as Whoah

The Battersea Poltergeist was one. Also that terrifying Scottish bothy. And now Hollymount Farm. Brrrr

Danny Robbins is a very gifted presenter - likeable and plausible. Never sensational

Bothies can be deeply unsettling if you're by yourself, no signal and more than a day's walk away from civilisation.

It’s all nonsense. Good fun but nonsense.

The guy who presents Uncanny is fairly decent (although seeing him on tv makes me think of D:Ream); however for me to even vaguely consider the possibility of a ghost it would have to appear in front on me, in broad daylight, and consent to a range of tests in lab conditions. And even then my reaction would be “that’s a bloody good illusion”.

The story always involves someone in a dark, unsettling location, under psychological pressure and/or in search of an easy answer to explain a more profound trauma.

To summarise: I ain’t afraid of no ghost.

For me this is as ludicrously over-confident as someone who insists that QAnon is real

How can you know? How many people screen out jarring or bizarre visual evidence simply because it makes no sense? To their world view?

Check the gorilla on the basketball court - a famous experiment

Or think back to how many people dismissed the idea of a global Covid pandemic until the last moment - because it had never happened before and therefore could never happen

Read the actual words. I am applying sensible scepticism which used to be mainstream until the West started going weird (insert essay here about the death of mainstream religion having a bad side as well as a good one).

If you want me to develop the point, what I am saying is this: no matter how credible the individual seems, if they report that an object moved by itself or a person appeared and disappearing, there are many KNOWN explanations we can reach for before we toy with an unknown one.

I am scientist. I would love us to discover a new complexity to the universe. And as you say, in many ways we know nothing. But anything we discover must be measured and codified to prove that it is something new. Otherwise, we might as well go back to pagan gods.

Ghosts, in the sense of the dead speaking to the living, must also answer the same logic challenge as UFOs. Why do so cryptically and not in the open in front of everyone? If my grandparents could speak to me from beyond the veil, I am confident they would do just that. Politely knock on the door and come in for a chat.

If they are meant to be a sort of “psychic imprint” then why aren’t they everywhere?

I could be wrong but weren’t you the guy that said you’d only believe in UFOs if one landed on the White House lawn in front of 3000 live cameras and even then you wouldn’t believe it?! Apologies if I’ve got that wrong

Also, the idea that we should all worship at the door of the science lab as that is a source of unimpeachable truth has surely been destroyed by Covid. Whether you believe in lab leak or not (spoiler: it happened) the entire scientific elite conspired to conceal a very plausible explanation for a hideous disaster likely caused by science

In short, scientists lied because scientists are human with human fears and interests and flaws and prejudices - and credulities

biggles said:

kamski said:

a

biggles said:

Nigelb said:

"Do you think Elon Musk is honest and trustworthy?"

No: 42%
Yes: 31%

Unsure: 27%

YouGov / Feb 6, 2025 / n=1106
https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1888360258919113171

I expect that unsure number to drop rapidly.

To be fair, I think he’s honest. I don’t think he hides his malign intent.

For someone who is honest, he says and posts an awful lot of things that are false.

To be fair, we’re slight divided by the English language here. He lies a lot, but I was giving him some credit for not hiding his intent or true self. In that sense, he’s honest. A bit like Trump.

MattW said:

algarkirk said:

Scott_xP said:

Nigelb said:

LOL

Trump 2 is oddly passionate about crypto, mass layoffs, and the plight of the white South African. I wonder what changed with him.
https://x.com/agraybee/status/1888350143839121724

There is a future in which the supposed guardrails of democracy and legality in the US hold, as they mostly did last time

But there is also a (much more likely) future in which neither are true.

I am not convinced enough people are freaking out to the required degree about this...

Yes. There is a very precise thing to watch; and I hope the media do their job.

A huge problem there is that non-compliant media are being systematically excluded:

The Pentagon just doubled the number of media “rotating out” from 4 to 8 to “make room for other outlets.”

OUT- NYT, WAPO, NBC, CNN, POLITICO, THE HILL, THE WAR ZONE, NPR

IN: NY Post, Washington Examiner
TV, OAN, Newsmax, HuffPo, The Free Press, The Daily Caller, Breitbart
https://x.com/KellieMeyerNews/status/1888020207731622069

(For me, the War Zone is notable. I'm not sure about HuffPo.)

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

biggles said:

Leon said:

biggles said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

Excellent series. The first is on iPlayer as well. You may think it's bunkum, but it's very entertaining.

Yeah it’s great. A lot of the stories are quite easily explicable (but still entertaining). A few stand out as Whoah

The Battersea Poltergeist was one. Also that terrifying Scottish bothy. And now Hollymount Farm. Brrrr

Danny Robbins is a very gifted presenter - likeable and plausible. Never sensational

Bothies can be deeply unsettling if you're by yourself, no signal and more than a day's walk away from civilisation.

It’s all nonsense. Good fun but nonsense.

The guy who presents Uncanny is fairly decent (although seeing him on tv makes me think of D:Ream); however for me to even vaguely consider the possibility of a ghost it would have to appear in front on me, in broad daylight, and consent to a range of tests in lab conditions. And even then my reaction would be “that’s a bloody good illusion”.

The story always involves someone in a dark, unsettling location, under psychological pressure and/or in search of an easy answer to explain a more profound trauma.

To summarise: I ain’t afraid of no ghost.

For me this is as ludicrously over-confident as someone who insists that QAnon is real

How can you know? How many people screen out jarring or bizarre visual evidence simply because it makes no sense? To their world view?

Check the gorilla on the basketball court - a famous experiment

Or think back to how many people dismissed the idea of a global Covid pandemic until the last moment - because it had never happened before and therefore could never happen

Read the actual words. I am applying sensible scepticism which used to be mainstream until the West started going weird (insert essay here about the death of mainstream religion having a bad side as well as a good one).

If you want me to develop the point, what I am saying is this: no matter how credible the individual seems, if they report that an object moved by itself or a person appeared and disappearing, there are many KNOWN explanations we can reach for before we toy with an unknown one.

I am scientist. I would love us to discover a new complexity to the universe. And as you say, in many ways we know nothing. But anything we discover must be measured and codified to prove that it is something new. Otherwise, we might as well go back to pagan gods.

Ghosts, in the sense of the dead speaking to the living, must also answer the same logic challenge as UFOs. Why do so cryptically and not in the open in front of everyone? If my grandparents could speak to me from beyond the veil, I am confident they would do just that. Politely knock on the door and come in for a chat.

If they are meant to be a sort of “psychic imprint” then why aren’t they everywhere?

I could be wrong but weren’t you the guy that said you’d only believe in UFOs if one landed on the White House lawn in front of 3000 live cameras and even then you wouldn’t believe it?! Apologies if I’ve got that wrong

Also, the idea that we should all worship at the door of the science lab as that is a source of unimpeachable truth has surely been destroyed by Covid. Whether you believe in lab leak or not (spoiler: it happened) the entire scientific elite conspired to conceal a very plausible explanation for a hideous disaster likely caused by science

In short, scientists lied because scientists are human with human fears and interests and flaws and prejudices - and credulities

Whether you are right or wrong about covid, you are wrong to describe around five scientists as ‘the entire scientific elite’.

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

biggles said:

Leon said:

biggles said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Leon said:

Does anyone else watch/listen to the “podcast” Uncanny?

The case of Hollymount Farm is one of the clearest examples of a haunting I’ve encountered. Still might be total bull, of course

Excellent series. The first is on iPlayer as well. You may think it's bunkum, but it's very entertaining.

Yeah it’s great. A lot of the stories are quite easily explicable (but still entertaining). A few stand out as Whoah

The Battersea Poltergeist was one. Also that terrifying Scottish bothy. And now Hollymount Farm. Brrrr

Danny Robbins is a very gifted presenter - likeable and plausible. Never sensational

Bothies can be deeply unsettling if you're by yourself, no signal and more than a day's walk away from civilisation.

It’s all nonsense. Good fun but nonsense.

The guy who presents Uncanny is fairly decent (although seeing him on tv makes me think of D:Ream); however for me to even vaguely consider the possibility of a ghost it would have to appear in front on me, in broad daylight, and consent to a range of tests in lab conditions. And even then my reaction would be “that’s a bloody good illusion”.

The story always involves someone in a dark, unsettling location, under psychological pressure and/or in search of an easy answer to explain a more profound trauma.

To summarise: I ain’t afraid of no ghost.

For me this is as ludicrously over-confident as someone who insists that QAnon is real

How can you know? How many people screen out jarring or bizarre visual evidence simply because it makes no sense? To their world view?

Check the gorilla on the basketball court - a famous experiment

Or think back to how many people dismissed the idea of a global Covid pandemic until the last moment - because it had never happened before and therefore could never happen

Read the actual words. I am applying sensible scepticism which used to be mainstream until the West started going weird (insert essay here about the death of mainstream religion having a bad side as well as a good one).

If you want me to develop the point, what I am saying is this: no matter how credible the individual seems, if they report that an object moved by itself or a person appeared and disappearing, there are many KNOWN explanations we can reach for before we toy with an unknown one.

I am scientist. I would love us to discover a new complexity to the universe. And as you say, in many ways we know nothing. But anything we discover must be measured and codified to prove that it is something new. Otherwise, we might as well go back to pagan gods.

Ghosts, in the sense of the dead speaking to the living, must also answer the same logic challenge as UFOs. Why do so cryptically and not in the open in front of everyone? If my grandparents could speak to me from beyond the veil, I am confident they would do just that. Politely knock on the door and come in for a chat.

If they are meant to be a sort of “psychic imprint” then why aren’t they everywhere?

I could be wrong but weren’t you the guy that said you’d only believe in UFOs if one landed on the White House lawn in front of 3000 live cameras and even then you wouldn’t believe it?! Apologies if I’ve got that wrong

Also, the idea that we should all worship at the door of the science lab as that is a source of unimpeachable truth has surely been destroyed by Covid. Whether you believe in lab leak or not (spoiler: it happened) the entire scientific elite conspired to conceal a very plausible explanation for a hideous disaster likely caused by science

In short, scientists lied because scientists are human with human fears and interests and flaws and prejudices - and credulities

Whether you are right or wrong about covid, you are wrong to describe around five scientists as ‘the entire scientific elite’.

It was the entire establishment- such as it exists /- from fauci and Farrar and vallance and the rest - down through the lancet and nature - and down to underlings like you (tho to your credit you have admitted there was a cover up)

Anyway I’m not here to rehash that argument not today. Ghosts are more fun

So is rugby. Cmon Scotland!!

MattW said:

MattW said:

algarkirk said:

Scott_xP said:

Nigelb said:

LOL

Trump 2 is oddly passionate about crypto, mass layoffs, and the plight of the white South African. I wonder what changed with him.
https://x.com/agraybee/status/1888350143839121724

There is a future in which the supposed guardrails of democracy and legality in the US hold, as they mostly did last time

But there is also a (much more likely) future in which neither are true.

I am not convinced enough people are freaking out to the required degree about this...

Yes. There is a very precise thing to watch; and I hope the media do their job.

A huge problem there is that non-compliant media are being systematically excluded:

The Pentagon just doubled the number of media “rotating out” from 4 to 8 to “make room for other outlets.”

OUT- NYT, WAPO, NBC, CNN, POLITICO, THE HILL, THE WAR ZONE, NPR

IN: NY Post, Washington Examiner
TV, OAN, Newsmax, HuffPo, The Free Press, The Daily Caller, Breitbart
https://x.com/KellieMeyerNews/status/1888020207731622069

(For me, the War Zone is notable. I'm not sure about HuffPo.)

On The War Zone, they have no presence there. No idea what Hegseth is playing at.

Maybe you saw the news that TWZ was one of the outlets listed in the expanded rotational media office space initiative that Pentagon is now executing. We were one of the additional four outlets rotating out.

The funny thing is, we have no physical presence in the Pentagon, let alone a desk or office space. None. Never have. We don't even have a Pentagon corespondent. We are a tiny little outlet that does everything possible, and as policy, to remain apolitical.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/bunker-talk-lets-talk-about-all-the-things-we-did-and-didnt-cover-this-week-131

Andy_JS said:

RefUK = 200,000 members.

https://www.reformparty.uk/counter