A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The AI models are not intelligent at all. Try getting one to create a simple crossword or even a sujiko puzzle
Creative intelligence isn't the point. But they can do the work of millions, if directed.
Most people can't compose a crossword. You could probably train an AI to do so without massive effort.
Musk probably has an AI writing his social media posts. Some selection of the output would be required, but it would explain his 300 tweets per day. Doing that for Trump would be even easier, given his tiny vocabulary and copious public archive of bullshit.
Nah, I know AI can thrash chess grandmasters with ease and spot cancer years before doctors but I struggle to believe that they could come up with the windmill/birds or sharks/electric batteries stories for at least another few decades.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
A bit like "he/him"?
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.
By that rationale there's no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico's name. It's only a badge change, after all.
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.
By that rationale there's no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico's name. It's only a badge change, after all.
Are you boycotting lamingtons over Ayers Rock to Uluru?
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
I fwiiw, believe Gwynne's commentary is unacceptable and unprofessional and he should have gone. In an earlier, less febrile time I am sure he could have passed it off as "satire".
The AI models are not intelligent at all. Try getting one to create a simple crossword or even a sujiko puzzle
Creative intelligence isn't the point. But they can do the work of millions, if directed.
Most people can't compose a crossword. You could probably train an AI to do so without massive effort.
Musk probably has an AI writing his social media posts. Some selection of the output would be required, but it would explain his 300 tweets per day. Doing that for Trump would be even easier, given his tiny vocabulary and copious public archive of bullshit.
Nah, I know AI can thrash chess grandmasters with ease and spot cancer years before doctors but I struggle to believe that they could come up with the windmill/birds or sharks/electric batteries stories for at least another few decades.
You clearly have clearly forgotten how often he repeats his daft shtick. AI (currently) is a tool, not a replacement - but you can probably automate 90%.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Attempts at 'humour' can be very dangerous in politics. A Tory minister once made a dark 'joke' about the cockle pickers who died in Morecombe Bay. It was during a private dinner party, and it still lot her her job.
Ann Winterton’s remark was simply crass and tasteless.
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.
By that rationale there's no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico's name. It's only a badge change, after all.
If there's no problem with Erdogan changing Turkey to Turkiye, there should be no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.
Especially as the USA is actually a (kind of) English speaking country.
As in eg Uganda under Amin, the independent judiciary, and independent institutions such as churches, will be the last bulwarks of a free society that can continue to exist.
You haven't seen the Whitehouse Faith Advisor then
"Any offence against Trump is an offence against God..."
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
Neil Henderson @hendopolis · 2h SUNDAY EXPRESS: Tories call for Reform pact to save UK #TomorrowsPapersToday
The only surprise would be that it took this long for more people to start saying it.
You can see from the front page of Reform's website that they really do want to be friends.
Yet not one poll, even FindOutNow, is forecasting a Reform majority even as most polls forecast a hung parliament. So the political reality for Farage is without a deal with the Tories he has near zero chance of becoming PM or getting into government
The Conservatives would be mad to attempt a pact with Reform, even if the latter were interested in such a thing. Farage, despite the fact that recent approval ratings flatter him when compared to a struggling Prime Minister and an invisible Opposition leader, is not particularly popular amongst the electorate as a whole; being the Not Farage Party is really the only attribute that the Tories have left to sell to their remaining voters.
The idea that Con+Ref = 50% and a deal is therefore all that is needed to win them an election handsomely is for the birds. I'm not sure how many Reform voters would desert if they thought their preferred party were morphing back into Tories, but a large chunk of what's left of the Conservative vote would sit on its hands or go Liberal Democrat.
I'm not sure you're right here. If the Tory Party actually said "stick a fork in us, we're done" and wound themselves up, where would their remaining voters go? Surely by now, the only ones left must either be intensely tribal, or so disinterested in politics to have not noticed that the Tory Party has decended into a bad cartoon of itself.
I'm not sure I'd want to predict where those voters end up going.
Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.
+1 Sky News were all over Trump's press conference with pm of Japan. They called it breaking news FFS. What on earth had that to do with us?
I've started to fast forward Trump coverage. It's bloated and pandering. Anything important, I'll read a summary later on.
He and his team have clearly given thought as to the performative shock and awe stuff they always intended to drop in the weeks after his election win.
It's still not obvious whether they have a coherent legislative programme for the next two to four years?
I see they've now torn up the 'support for EV;s' programme (or possibly program!).
How's that going down with Musk?
They also cancelled rural broadband (which on technical - but not social policy - grounds, is rather more justifiable. Pretty good for Starlink.
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
A bit like "he/him"?
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?
Entirely uninterested and unperturbed by the pronouns thing, but isn't it just shorthand for avoidance of gender specific forms of address? Is it even possible to address someone in the first person with gender defined without adding titles?
If the trial in Glasgow of course 'youse' must be used at all times, eg 'Where were youse on the night of the 25th' etc.
Obvs if the pannel is a Dr or Professor DavidL has it sewn up.
Well, unless they have head and shoulders in their overnight bag, that might really throw me, apparently.
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.
By that rationale there's no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico's name. It's only a badge change, after all.
Are you boycotting lamingtons over Ayers Rock to Uluru?
Nope, for the cunning reason I have no idea what lamingtons is.
Also, I'm not boycotting Civ VII as I was planning on, at most, waiting for a deep sale and probably not buying it at all.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.
By that rationale there's no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico's name. It's only a badge change, after all.
If there's no problem with Erdogan changing Turkey to Turkiye, there should be no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.
Especially as the USA is actually a (kind of) English speaking country.
That's an interesting comparison.
I found the Turkey change pretty odd as it seemed totally unnecessary. There's also a question about dictating what someone else calls something (the Germans don't insist on Deutschland, for example).
I am in a cafe next to the Royal Free after my second bout of treatment. I am shivering with cold on account, I assume, of the hideous weather.
An American at the table next to me has ordered a cappuccino with chocolate on top. At 11 am.
Is there to be no end to my suffering??
I thought it was allowed until around 11. Breakfast or brunch, even if the latter is a modern invention.
Personally I drink cortados.
It's the chocolate. I've occasionally clashed with Cyclefree over this (de gustibus, etc), but in her weakened state, it must be very trying. I sympathise, and wish her a quick recovery.
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.
By that rationale there's no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico's name. It's only a badge change, after all.
If there's no problem with Erdogan changing Turkey to Turkiye, there should be no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.
Especially as the USA is actually a (kind of) English speaking country.
It will get confusing when future changes are made. Mount Trumpmore, Trump DC, New Trump, Los Trump, Las Trump, San Trump. DJT Airport.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
I fwiiw, believe Gwynne's commentary is unacceptable and unprofessional and he should have gone. In an earlier, less febrile time I am sure he could have passed it off as "satire".
Far from condemning Gwynne, his transparency should be applauded. Politicians should be obliged to tweet at least 100 times a day so we'd know what really lies behind the 360° smirk. QEI complained she couldn't see into men's souls. We've solved that problem.
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.
By that rationale there's no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico's name. It's only a badge change, after all.
If there's no problem with Erdogan changing Turkey to Turkiye, there should be no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.
Especially as the USA is actually a (kind of) English speaking country.
It will get confusing when future changes are made. Mount Trumpmore, Trump DC, New Trump, Los Trump, Las Trump, San Trump. DJT Airport.
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.
By that rationale there's no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico's name. It's only a badge change, after all.
If there's no problem with Erdogan changing Turkey to Turkiye, there should be no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.
Especially as the USA is actually a (kind of) English speaking country.
The USA doesn’t own the Gulf of Mexico though. Try looking at an Atlas.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Attempts at 'humour' can be very dangerous in politics. A Tory minister once made a dark 'joke' about the cockle pickers who died in Morecombe Bay. It was during a private dinner party, and it still lot her her job.
I tend to agree with @Gardenwalker - I didn't find anything toooo shocking in the comments. Not very nice to hear for those who were the butt of the jokes, but nothing a harrassed telephonist might not say after a going over from an unhappy customer. Labour Ministers have done waaay worse and not resigned - Andrew Gwynne's nasty barbs are less than nothing compared to Hermer's unacceptable conflicts of interest.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
People understandably have a lot of criticisms of Trump but on the plus side I really think we should look on his undertaking not to extradite Prince Harry as a generous and sympathetic gesture.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.
By that rationale there's no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico's name. It's only a badge change, after all.
If there's no problem with Erdogan changing Turkey to Turkiye, there should be no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.
Especially as the USA is actually a (kind of) English speaking country.
The USA doesn’t own the Gulf of Mexico though. Try looking at an Atlas.
I could have made the same point about Denali/Mount McKinley, if you feel that a better analogy?
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.
By that rationale there's no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico's name. It's only a badge change, after all.
If there's no problem with Erdogan changing Turkey to Turkiye, there should be no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.
Especially as the USA is actually a (kind of) English speaking country.
The USA doesn’t own the Gulf of Mexico though. Try looking at an Atlas.
I could have made the same point about Denali/Mount McKinley, if you feel that a better analogy?
I am in a cafe next to the Royal Free after my second bout of treatment. I am shivering with cold on account, I assume, of the hideous weather.
An American at the table next to me has ordered a cappuccino with chocolate on top. At 11 am.
Is there to be no end to my suffering??
I was diagnosed with Type I diabetes after an ambulance trip to the Royal Free back in 2001 for hyperglaecemia bought on after a stomach bug killed my pancreas, when I was living on Mansfield Road, in the studio flat attic of a landlord who's day job was maintaining CeeFax.
One of the nice things about that hospital is the proliferation of cafes in the area, and a decent avoidance of Hampstead prices if one goes the other way.
If you are an NT member, it's also worth a visit to the modernist Willow Road by Goldfinger, pop around teh corner to look at 49a Downshire Hill (Anthony Hopkins), and take in the Lawn Road (Isokon) flats which are on the way to the Belsize Park tube and look like a 1930s ocean linuer - next to (of all things) a tennis club.
Marina Hyde in the Guardian mentioned the left’s commoditisation of opinion. In other words, correct thinking liberals have to adopt, however contradictory, the whole package of “correct” views off the shelf but, in reality, a substantial part of society that fully support gay rights also support the death penalty - which are not found together in the left-liberal package.
I think that’s true more broadly. Disliking Trump and regretting Brexit may not, paradoxically, necessarily be a bar to supporting Farage.
That's the two party / FPTP commoditisation of opinion. The RINO rhetoric is an example of the same thing.
A PR system is slightly more likely to avoid such nonsense. If you're not MAGA, or 'uber-liberal' (whatever that might mean), you have other options to make your electoral voice heard.
It also favours a bit more honesty (just a bit, I'm not going to push it) from politicians, as they can ditch any pretence of being interested in everyone's welfare and adopt a special interest platform if they want to. The Conservatives, for example, would be free to rebrand as the Grey Party and campaign for the abolition of inheritance tax and annual 20% hikes to the state pension paid for by selling the poor into slavery, and would probably do rather well.
Frankly, any prolonged period of 4/5/6 major party politics is going to test FPTP to destruction. A majority of parties that can agree an alternative only has to be spat out of the random number generator once to pull it down. It's perfectly possible to imagine a scenario where the Tories implode, Davey mops up wealthy Southern England, Labour fails and is driven back into the cities, and suddenly LD + Ref + SNP = Maj in 2029. If Reform are actually serious about, well, reform then they could prop up a Lib Dem minority for exactly as long as it takes to ram PR through Parliament, followed by another election.
With a weak, floundering Government and a weak, floundering Opposition co-existing, the foundations of the current duopoly have never been shakier.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
There’s really nothing in there that’s actually offensive or outrageous.
Albeit, it’s probably simply stupid to post such things as an MP.
Are you serious ?
Starmer has not instantly sacked him and condemned his remarks if he took your view
I never thought you would be an apologist for someone who makes rascist, antisemitic and wishing death on a pensioner remarks
The remarks are really only horrific, racist and antisemitism if you are a professional offense-monger.
I accept, however, that the UK is full of snowflakes and communicating such remarks is no longer compatible with being in the Ministry.
Do-gooding pests are the reason anything ever improves.
Perhaps part of the reason the UK has become a bit of a shithole is because politicians treat anyone who actually cares about something as irritating weirdos. A cultural lethargy and complacency; we'd much rather wallow in our own mediocricity and decline.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
There’s really nothing in there that’s actually offensive or outrageous.
Albeit, it’s probably simply stupid to post such things as an MP.
Are you serious ?
Starmer has not instantly sacked him and condemned his remarks if he took your view
I never thought you would be an apologist for someone who makes rascist, antisemitic and wishing death on a pensioner remarks
The remarks are really only horrific, racist and antisemitism if you are a professional offense-monger.
I accept, however, that the UK is full of snowflakes and communicating such remarks is no longer compatible with being in the Ministry.
I assume you do not know all the comments Gwynne made not least in regard to his colleagues Dianne Abbott and Angela Rayner [which I am not repeating ] plus his antisemitic remarks about Jews.
The problem is that Gwynne's remarks as I understand it span a two year period and involve at least another Labour mp and Labour councillors no doubt all of whom did not expect them to be leaked to the Daily Mail at which point they become public knowledge, and certainly in Gwynne's case are seen as unacceptable but also the consequences for Labour as demonstrated by Trevor Philips this morning is who is the other Labour mp and why wasn't he/she been sacked as well
It remains to be seen whether sacking Gwynne has ended the story
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
There’s really nothing in there that’s actually offensive or outrageous.
Albeit, it’s probably simply stupid to post such things as an MP.
Are you serious ?
Starmer has not instantly sacked him and condemned his remarks if he took your view
I never thought you would be an apologist for someone who makes rascist, antisemitic and wishing death on a pensioner remarks
The remarks are really only horrific, racist and antisemitism if you are a professional offense-monger.
I accept, however, that the UK is full of snowflakes and communicating such remarks is no longer compatible with being in the Ministry.
I assume you do not know all the comments Gwynne made not least in regard to his colleagues Dianne Abbott and Angela Rayner [which I am not repeating ] plus his antisemitic remarks about Jews.
The problem is that Gwynne's remarks as I understand it span a two year period and involve at least another Labour mp and Labour councillors no doubt all of whom did not expect them to be leaked to the Daily Mail at which point they become public knowledge, and certainly in Gwynne's case are seen as unacceptable but also the consequences for Labour as demonstrated by Trevor Philips this morning is who is the other Labour mp and why wasn't he/she been sacked as well
It remains to be seen whether sacking Gwynne has ended the story
It’s a non-story. Trivia. There are no consequences for Labour, as much as you might devoutly wish it.
The actual issue for Labour is that the economy is in the doldrums, and Starmer is already a busted flush.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
There’s really nothing in there that’s actually offensive or outrageous.
Albeit, it’s probably simply stupid to post such things as an MP.
Are you serious ?
Starmer has not instantly sacked him and condemned his remarks if he took your view
I never thought you would be an apologist for someone who makes rascist, antisemitic and wishing death on a pensioner remarks
The remarks are really only horrific, racist and antisemitism if you are a professional offense-monger.
I accept, however, that the UK is full of snowflakes and communicating such remarks is no longer compatible with being in the Ministry.
I assume you do not know all the comments Gwynne made not least in regard to his colleagues Dianne Abbott and Angela Rayner [which I am not repeating ] plus his antisemitic remarks about Jews.
The problem is that Gwynne's remarks as I understand it span a two year period and involve at least another Labour mp and Labour councillors no doubt all of whom did not expect them to be leaked to the Daily Mail at which point they become public knowledge, and certainly in Gwynne's case are seen as unacceptable but also the consequences for Labour as demonstrated by Trevor Philips this morning is who is the other Labour mp and why wasn't he/she been sacked as well
It remains to be seen whether sacking Gwynne has ended the story
A shiny sixpence says that worse remarks have been made by someone in the Mail's editorial offices in the last 24 hours. Because that's what high-pressure workplaces are like.
In reality, Gwynne has been sacked for being stupid, and for making his party look bad, not for the inherent awfulness of his thoughts.
Remember kids- if it's on the internet, it's potentially there forever.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Attempts at 'humour' can be very dangerous in politics. A Tory minister once made a dark 'joke' about the cockle pickers who died in Morecombe Bay. It was during a private dinner party, and it still lot her her job.
Ann Winterton’s remark was simply crass and tasteless.
So are these comments. At best.
But that's the point: if "you can never say anything crass, tasteless or blunt, even in joking form" is applied to politicians of one party, the same standards should be applied to politicians of every party.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Attempts at 'humour' can be very dangerous in politics. A Tory minister once made a dark 'joke' about the cockle pickers who died in Morecombe Bay. It was during a private dinner party, and it still lot her her job.
Ann Winterton’s remark was simply crass and tasteless.
So are these comments. At best.
But that's the point: if "you can never say anything crass, tasteless or blunt, even in joking form" is applied to politicians of one party, the same standards should be applied to politicians of every party.
21 Chinese cocklepickers were drowned in Morecambe, in February 2004, and Ann Winterton was cracking jokes about it the SAME MONTH.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Attempts at 'humour' can be very dangerous in politics. A Tory minister once made a dark 'joke' about the cockle pickers who died in Morecombe Bay. It was during a private dinner party, and it still lot her her job.
Ann Winterton’s remark was simply crass and tasteless.
So are these comments. At best.
But that's the point: if "you can never say anything crass, tasteless or blunt, even in joking form" is applied to politicians of one party, the same standards should be applied to politicians of every party.
Gwynne problem is the extent of his comments over 2 years and the fact they have now been put in the public domain
The Jewish Labour movement have issued a statement saying they are appalled at the vile anti semetic rascist comments made by Andrew Gwynne
The media certainly are very much leading on this story
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Attempts at 'humour' can be very dangerous in politics. A Tory minister once made a dark 'joke' about the cockle pickers who died in Morecombe Bay. It was during a private dinner party, and it still lot her her job.
Ann Winterton’s remark was simply crass and tasteless.
So are these comments. At best.
But that's the point: if "you can never say anything crass, tasteless or blunt, even in joking form" is applied to politicians of one party, the same standards should be applied to politicians of every party.
In every case that politicians have got it in the neck for crass, tasteless or blunt jokes, the jokes weren’t funny.
If you are going to go Full Lenny Bruce, remember that shock humour comes with integral consequences for failing to be funny.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
There’s really nothing in there that’s actually offensive or outrageous.
Albeit, it’s probably simply stupid to post such things as an MP.
Are you serious ?
Starmer has not instantly sacked him and condemned his remarks if he took your view
I never thought you would be an apologist for someone who makes rascist, antisemitic and wishing death on a pensioner remarks
The remarks are really only horrific, racist and antisemitism if you are a professional offense-monger.
I accept, however, that the UK is full of snowflakes and communicating such remarks is no longer compatible with being in the Ministry.
I assume you do not know all the comments Gwynne made not least in regard to his colleagues Dianne Abbott and Angela Rayner [which I am not repeating ] plus his antisemitic remarks about Jews.
The problem is that Gwynne's remarks as I understand it span a two year period and involve at least another Labour mp and Labour councillors no doubt all of whom did not expect them to be leaked to the Daily Mail at which point they become public knowledge, and certainly in Gwynne's case are seen as unacceptable but also the consequences for Labour as demonstrated by Trevor Philips this morning is who is the other Labour mp and why wasn't he/she been sacked as well
It remains to be seen whether sacking Gwynne has ended the story
A shiny sixpence says that worse remarks have been made by someone in the Mail's editorial offices in the last 24 hours. Because that's what high-pressure workplaces are like.
In reality, Gwynne has been sacked for being stupid, and for making his party look bad, not for the inherent awfulness of his thoughts.
Remember kids- if it's on the internet, it's potentially there forever.
The *written* word will follow you to the grave.
Oh, and email is less secure than sending a postcard.
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
I wouldn't say riled (not least because I'm too sleepy for that). But it's daft removing Christ from the Christian calendar. Bastardising history/the calendar for political reasons is not something I like.
Mind you, Civ does get some things wrong. Having Victoria as Queen of England (nope, Britain), or Saladin as an Arabic leader (he was a Kurd) springs to mind.
How is using a more neutral term “Bastardising history”? Do you object to the use of the Gregorian calendar too?
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
"mere words" for goodness sake. What about the teenagers who have killed themselves after being bullied on social media.?
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Attempts at 'humour' can be very dangerous in politics. A Tory minister once made a dark 'joke' about the cockle pickers who died in Morecombe Bay. It was during a private dinner party, and it still lot her her job.
Ann Winterton’s remark was simply crass and tasteless.
So are these comments. At best.
But that's the point: if "you can never say anything crass, tasteless or blunt, even in joking form" is applied to politicians of one party, the same standards should be applied to politicians of every party.
21 Chinese cocklepickers were drowned in Morecambe, in February 2004, and Ann Winterton was cracking jokes about it the SAME MONTH.
I am not defending Winterton over this. I am saying that if you really think her comments were wrong, then Gwynne's comments are also wrong. And there are compounding factors in Gwynne's; such as the scale, length of time they were over, and the forum.
It's topics like this that make some people appear like silly party hacks.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
There’s really nothing in there that’s actually offensive or outrageous.
Albeit, it’s probably simply stupid to post such things as an MP.
Are you serious ?
Starmer has not instantly sacked him and condemned his remarks if he took your view
I never thought you would be an apologist for someone who makes rascist, antisemitic and wishing death on a pensioner remarks
The remarks are really only horrific, racist and antisemitism if you are a professional offense-monger.
I accept, however, that the UK is full of snowflakes and communicating such remarks is no longer compatible with being in the Ministry.
The problem is that Labour have spent the last decade being that professional offense-monger. Reduces any sympathy I might have had for him. I know that he would definitely be on the airways demanding the head of any Conservative MP who wrote something similar. Always came across as deeply unpleasant. Starmer is probably relieved he's gone, like with Haigh, he can bring in one of his own replacements.
I would be more interested in knowing if he actually did sort out the issue over bin collections.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
No. TBH I think you are trivialising.
It's culture war stuff, and I'm surprised to hear it from any Labour MP - even that one. We've seen how the Welsh Tories first demanded that 20mph limits be done more quickly, then turned their coats and tried to create a wedge issue to save themselves at the 2024 Election.
Enough of this chatter, and it becomes perceived as acceptable in some groups to lean out of a car and push people over, or string cables across cycle tracks. Both of these are rare, but not unknown at present. It creates what is known as a "permission structure". Members of the House of Lords (eg Hogan Howe) referring the Lords to (eg) people on cycles who he thinks are in his way as "a plague of mosquitoes" can work in a similar way, especially when combined with fictional claims.
There was another one last week down in Bournemouth in a Facebook Group called BCP and Dorset Motorists, which I track as I did much professional training down there - to keep an eye out and to do a bit of education. There was a Lib Dem Councillor gathering evidence of dangerous behaviour at primary school drop-off time by parents with their vehicles on the zig-zag markings.
He did some filming and published a video with extensive blurring (for obvious reasons).
The attempt within the group was to make him out to be a paedophile filming kids and turning it into a safeguarding issue, and it made the local paper. That's the Rebecca Brooks tabloid playbook from the 1990s. The attempt is to demonise a "cyclist", rather than address the safety concern for children wanting to walk, wheel or cycle to school.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
I’ve certainly said worse, but politicians aren’t allowed to tell offensive jokes, in the way that ordinary people can.
Nor are standup comics if they want to get anywhere on the scene, at least according to a friend of mine. NIgel Farage and straight white men generally are fair game, but gays, women, minorities or the disabled absolutely aren't.
So they self-censor, so they're less funny, so standup comedy is declining fast.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
For the DOGE kid, I'm more concerned about his being granted access to classified information (UK equivalent would perhaps be the entire HMRC or DVLA database), and the Trump/Musk regime's belief that it is OK to do this with no security clearance in basic violation of the law.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
I’ve certainly said worse, but politicians aren’t allowed to tell offensive jokes, in the way that ordinary people can.
Nor are standup comics if they want to get anywhere on the scene, at least according to a friend of mine. NIgel Farage and straight white men generally are fair game, but gays, women, minorities or the disabled absolutely aren't.
So they self-censor, so they're less funny, so standup comedy is declining fast.
Go woke, no joke, go broke.
Has anyone explained to you the difference between punching up and punching down in comedy?
It's not the cappuccino at 11. It's the chocolate. Which is just ridiculous. At any time. Honestly, the English turn every drink - other than tea - into a version of Ovaltine, which is just disgusting.
Also he was having pancakes with berries and scrambled eggs with ketchup. I mean, really .......
Anyway, am at home, in bed and feel bloody awful. Just utterly drained and sick, in the physical rather than the metaphysical sense. Time for a good long sleep.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
Hmm. I'm kind of minded to agree with that... but this went on for over two years, I understand, which would seem to be plenty of time to learn how to behave,
It's not the cappuccino at 11. It's the chocolate. Which is just ridiculous. At any time. Honestly, the English turn every drink - other than tea - into a version of Ovaltine, which is just disgusting.
Also he was having pancakes with berries and scrambled eggs with ketchup. I mean, really .......
Anyway, am at home, in bed and feel bloody awful. Just utterly drained and sick, in the physical rather than the metaphysical sense. Time for a good long sleep.
I am so sorry you are experiencing health issues but the best advice is to be kind to yourself and listen to your body
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
"mere words" for goodness sake. What about the teenagers who have killed themselves after being bullied on social media.?
Bullying is different
Is there evidence this Labour MP was part of a group persecuting one individual? If so that’s a step up and worthy of much greater censure. Doubly, triply so, if aimed at a child
But we need perspective. People say stupid offensive shit on WhatsApp, in texts, on social media, they are human
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
Hmm. I'm kind of minded to agree with that... but this went on for over two years, I understand, which would seem to be plenty of time to learn how to behave,
A question is whether the other people on the group told him he was out of order and complained, or whether some of them encouraged him. If it was a place where nasty/ribald/out of order comments were made by many people and mostly ignored (*), then it is *slightly* more excusable than if it was a forum where people were trying to organise or achieve things and he just repeatedly went off one one.
(*) As happens on here on occasion, including from me...
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
"The activist in person is probably a pest."
You do realise how stupid that makes you sound?
Activists are always pests.
Imagine the fun of running a town council in the 1850s, and Cassius Clay turns up to give a speech on his personal hobby horse.
This will nearly inevitably end up in a fight. On a number of previous occasions Clay has stabbed (and killed) people in such fights.
He has written a book, boasting of this.
The venue will be wrecked, maybe even burnt down. And the town will suffer a full riot, quite possibly.
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.
By that rationale there's no problem with Trump changing the Gulf of Mexico's name. It's only a badge change, after all.
There isn’t.
He could call it “Fred” for all I care
Everyone else will carry on calling it the Gulf of Mexico
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
I’ve certainly said worse, but politicians aren’t allowed to tell offensive jokes, in the way that ordinary people can.
Nor are standup comics if they want to get anywhere on the scene, at least according to a friend of mine. NIgel Farage and straight white men generally are fair game, but gays, women, minorities or the disabled absolutely aren't.
So they self-censor, so they're less funny, so standup comedy is declining fast.
Go woke, no joke, go broke.
Has anyone explained to you the difference between punching up and punching down in comedy?
Ah, yes.
"We're allowed to take this piss out of you but you're not allowed to take the piss out of us because we're victims"...
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
Hmm. I'm kind of minded to agree with that... but this went on for over two years, I understand, which would seem to be plenty of time to learn how to behave,
It's a lesson to everyone in public life that any communication, no matter how confidential you think it is should not compromise you if it comes into the public domain
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
I’ve certainly said worse, but politicians aren’t allowed to tell offensive jokes, in the way that ordinary people can.
Nor are standup comics if they want to get anywhere on the scene, at least according to a friend of mine. NIgel Farage and straight white men generally are fair game, but gays, women, minorities or the disabled absolutely aren't.
So they self-censor, so they're less funny, so standup comedy is declining fast.
Go woke, no joke, go broke.
Has anyone explained to you the difference between punching up and punching down in comedy?
That’s a separate issue from whether or not a joke is funny.
And, punching up can be just as crass and unfunny as punching down.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
Hmm. I'm kind of minded to agree with that... but this went on for over two years, I understand, which would seem to be plenty of time to learn how to behave,
On the upside at least this might teach lefties to stop being utter prigs and hypocrites. Or so we can hope
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
I’ve certainly said worse, but politicians aren’t allowed to tell offensive jokes, in the way that ordinary people can.
Nor are standup comics if they want to get anywhere on the scene, at least according to a friend of mine. NIgel Farage and straight white men generally are fair game, but gays, women, minorities or the disabled absolutely aren't.
So they self-censor, so they're less funny, so standup comedy is declining fast.
Go woke, no joke, go broke.
Has anyone explained to you the difference between punching up and punching down in comedy?
Ah, yes.
"We're allowed to take this piss out of you but you're not allowed to take the piss out of us because we're victims"...
Feel free to explain now Nigel Farage, a rich commodities trader turned MP and party leader, is the victim in this comparison.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
I’ve certainly said worse, but politicians aren’t allowed to tell offensive jokes, in the way that ordinary people can.
Nor are standup comics if they want to get anywhere on the scene, at least according to a friend of mine. NIgel Farage and straight white men generally are fair game, but gays, women, minorities or the disabled absolutely aren't.
So they self-censor, so they're less funny, so standup comedy is declining fast.
Go woke, no joke, go broke.
Has anyone explained to you the difference between punching up and punching down in comedy?
That’s a separate issue from whether or not a joke is funny.
And, punching up can be just as crass and unfunny as punching down.
All sorts and forms of comedy can be done well or badly, sure.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
No. TBH I think you are trivialising.
It's culture war stuff, and I'm surprised to hear it from any Labour MP - even that one. We've seen how the Welsh Tories first demanded that 20mph limits be done more quickly, then turned their coats and tried to create a wedge issue to save themselves at the 2024 Election.
Enough of this chatter, and it becomes perceived as acceptable in some groups to lean out of a car and push people over, or string cables across cycle tracks. Both of these are rare, but not unknown at present. It creates what is known as a "permission structure". Members of the House of Lords (eg Hogan Howe) referring the Lords to (eg) people on cycles who he thinks are in his way as "a plague of mosquitoes" can work in a similar way, especially when combined with fictional claims.
There was another one last week down in Bournemouth in a Facebook Group called BCP and Dorset Motorists, which I track as I did much professional training down there - to keep an eye out and to do a bit of education. There was a Lib Dem Councillor gathering evidence of dangerous behaviour at primary school drop-off time by parents with their vehicles on the zig-zag markings.
He did some filming and published a video with extensive blurring (for obvious reasons).
The attempt within the group was to make him out to be a paedophile filming kids and turning it into a safeguarding issue, and it made the local paper. That's the Rebecca Brooks tabloid playbook from the 1990s. The attempt is to demonise a "cyclist", rather than address the safety concern for children wanting to walk, wheel or cycle to school.
What do you think? I think the "alarm" is pure politics.
It works both ways though. Parents parking on zig-zags is potentially dangerous. People who film young children are potentially dangerous. Both are, rightly, verboten. Both sides have given themselves permission to break the rules, for they are clearly on the side of the angels.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
I fwiiw, believe Gwynne's commentary is unacceptable and unprofessional and he should have gone. In an earlier, less febrile time I am sure he could have passed it off as "satire".
Far from condemning Gwynne, his transparency should be applauded. Politicians should be obliged to tweet at least 100 times a day so we'd know what really lies behind the 360° smirk. QEI complained she couldn't see into men's souls. We've solved that problem.
I don’t think QEI was complaining. She had no desire to look into men’s souls.
An early version of Clinton’s “don’t ask, don’t tell”?
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
I’ve certainly said worse, but politicians aren’t allowed to tell offensive jokes, in the way that ordinary people can.
Nor are standup comics if they want to get anywhere on the scene, at least according to a friend of mine. NIgel Farage and straight white men generally are fair game, but gays, women, minorities or the disabled absolutely aren't.
So they self-censor, so they're less funny, so standup comedy is declining fast.
Go woke, no joke, go broke.
Has anyone explained to you the difference between punching up and punching down in comedy?
Working class white boys have some of the worst educational outcomes in the country, ergo any humour aimed at white men is punching down? Is that what you think? Or are you just making up shit to justify your own bigotry?
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
"The activist in person is probably a pest."
You do realise how stupid that makes you sound?
The world is full of do-gooders and green-inkers. Many of them post on PB. They make for ripe comic material.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
"The activist in person is probably a pest."
You do realise how stupid that makes you sound?
Activists are always pests.
Imagine the fun of running a town council in the 1850s, and Cassius Clay turns up to give a speech on his personal hobby horse.
This will nearly inevitably end up in a fight. On a number of previous occasions Clay has stabbed (and killed) people in such fights.
He has written a book, boasting of this.
The venue will be wrecked, maybe even burnt down. And the town will suffer a full riot, quite possibly.
Activists, eh?
I have no idea what this analogy is supposed to mean, but I’d hope to defend the town councillors right to pass a joke about Cassius Clay.
This reminds me of a video I saw from a typically plank-like Trump supporter who soon after discovered that his legally-in-the-USA-but-not-yet-a-citizen wife was going to be deported under Trump's new authoritarian regime.
One has a measure of human sympathy - but he's reaping the whirlwind he sowed.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
"mere words" for goodness sake. What about the teenagers who have killed themselves after being bullied on social media.?
Jesus Christ. No doubt you’ll soon be comparing the poor Gwynne to Adolf Hitler, who wrote “mere words” in his best-selling joke book, Mein Kampf.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
Good luck. Isn't it simply this: most people, especially blokes, have within their heads and standing at one shoulder a whole range of demons of their worse nature, and at the same time are rational people chained to a sometimes lunatic especially on the subject of women.
Some can make a living out of writing all this down for the entertainment of readers, and fair play to them. Others get away with lots because of their nature and circumstances (Boris, Trump, Hitler for a time).
But for most positions of responsibility, most of the time, the moment the demons and the lunatic are given free expression you are taking a bet on your personal future, which you might lose. For most people sanity consists in part in keeping the demons and lunatics firmly within ones head. Civilisation rests on people generally doing so.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
Hmm. I'm kind of minded to agree with that... but this went on for over two years, I understand, which would seem to be plenty of time to learn how to behave,
A question is whether the other people on the group told him he was out of order and complained, or whether some of them encouraged him. If it was a place where nasty/ribald/out of order comments were made by many people and mostly ignored (*), then it is *slightly* more excusable than if it was a forum where people were trying to organise or achieve things and he just repeatedly went off one one.
(*) As happens on here on occasion, including from me...
Actually, you’ve repeatedly been told that “Musky Baby” is totally unacceptable.
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
The activist in person is probably a pest. You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
It's the kind of thing that turns cyclists into "militants". You express concern about kids being hit by drivers as they cycle to school and your local councillor responds with a hope that you are ground up under the wheels of a HGV.
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
This is silly. The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke. For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
So police officers who make distasteful jokes on WhatsApp shouldn’t be fired then?
No, they shouldn’t. And nor should this Labour MP. And nor should the DOGE kid with his edgy tweets
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
Fair enough I think in ordinary roles. There's little to be gained from chucking someone out of a job they are otherwise doing well and qualified for because made fruity comments they thought were private. Absent any aggravating material. Police are a difficult one as given the powers we give them there needs to be confidence they're not making decisions based on foul views. So context may be important.
In the case of Gwynne, it's politics and the nature of it. Labour want to win elections, of course they're going to ditch someone caught insulting voters who is going to reminded of that at every turn. That's politics. Michael Howard in his day sacked a Tory for stating the obvious that the Tories would cut more than they were letting on because it harmed the party's message.
In the case of the DOGE kids. Well. The question is more whether putting a load of children whose main qualification appears to be being fans of Musk (obviously they can code, but so can lots of other more experienced people). Who clearly haven't grown up enough to not behave stupidly in charge of remaking the entire US government in the first place. The fact that decisions that maybe the most controversial and consequential in 80+ years are being made by people who haven't grown out of their "haha Neo-Nazis are cool as they trigger the libs" phase of adolescent rebellion is a story.
Thanks for that post, it’s fantastic. It confirms everything I have been explaining about this.
US are playing us as their bitch on Chagos - have been doing so all along. It’s there in all the things your man didn’t say and spun around - that as patriotic Britains in our interest, not theirs, things we need to be mindful of, to cut through any “spin” in the video. I’ll repeat them, yet again.
Take the key bit, where he talks about standing beside us as we take “a hit” at the United Nations. At least he was honest about the hit - many PB pirates claim there will be no such hit!
But US won’t be taking the hit. The UN assembly have passed motions for UK to cede sovereignty, their courts have found against us on the illegality on which we took the islands, and I agree we could say no, keep appealing against it - but do you concede we cannot do this stalling without at least some reputational damage, self inflicted hit upon a senior leader in the institution?
As we swallow their “just trying to save us from our own mistake” spin your video was 100% about: we know United States (and India) behind all the “we are your special friend” have never been fans but belligerent enemies of British Colonialism - hacking away at Britains Old Empire and influence for most last hundred years - whilst, where it suits them like this - using us to do the messy stuff for them, like ethically cleanse Chagos.
When he repeats Mauritius want £18B the same £9B over 100 years lease money, but inflation proofed, that came into us after newspaper reports about Mauritius government allegedly said the agreement was inflation proofed, but both parties in the negotiation clearly and consistently deny that’s any part of the package - like we can’t guess now who planted that in the press to support their argument - are you quite comfortable repeating £18B?
I still claim I have the British Foreign Office and Chatham House on my side - whilst you have a Populist UK press and the US Gentleman in the video coaching you. These are the key facts I think supporting my argument, that I am wary about facing down the UN on this, as MAGA want us to: How history got us here consists of US calling all the shots on Chagos since mid 60s, such as ethically cleanse the island, which we did for them. UK negotiated this new deal not independently from USA, but with the Biden Administration - who obviously liked it as they wrote it. And India likes it too.
To what degree do you sense you have been, and maybe still being played by the likes of the Gentleman in the video?
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
I’ve certainly said worse, but politicians aren’t allowed to tell offensive jokes, in the way that ordinary people can.
Nor are standup comics if they want to get anywhere on the scene, at least according to a friend of mine. NIgel Farage and straight white men generally are fair game, but gays, women, minorities or the disabled absolutely aren't.
So they self-censor, so they're less funny, so standup comedy is declining fast.
Go woke, no joke, go broke.
Has anyone explained to you the difference between punching up and punching down in comedy?
Ah, yes.
"We're allowed to take this piss out of you but you're not allowed to take the piss out of us because we're victims"...
Thanks for that post, it’s fantastic. It confirms everything I have been explaining about this.
US are playing us as their bitch on Chagos - have been doing so all along. It’s there in all the things your man didn’t say and spun around - that as patriotic Britains in our interest, not theirs, things we need to be mindful of, to cut through any “spin” in the video. I’ll repeat them, yet again.
Take the key bit, where he talks about standing beside us as we take “a hit” at the United Nations. At least he was honest about the hit - many PB pirates claim there will be no such hit!
But US won’t be taking the hit. The UN assembly have passed motions for UK to cede sovereignty, their courts have found against us on the illegality on which we took the islands, and I agree we could say no, keep appealing against it - but do you concede we cannot do this stalling without at least some reputational damage, self inflicted hit upon a senior leader in the institution?
As we swallow their “just trying to save us from our own mistake” spin your video was 100% about: we know United States (and India) behind all the “we are your special friend” have never been fans but belligerent enemies of British Colonialism - hacking away at Britains Old Empire and influence for most last hundred years - whilst, where it suits them like this - using us to do the messy stuff for them, like ethically cleanse Chagos.
When he repeats Mauritius want £18B the same £9B over 100 years lease money, but inflation proofed, that came into us after newspaper reports about Mauritius government allegedly said the agreement was inflation proofed, but both parties in the negotiation clearly and consistently deny that’s any part of the package - like we can’t guess now who planted that in the press to support their argument - are you quite comfortable repeating £18B?
I still claim I have the British Foreign Office and Chatham House on my side - whilst you have a Populist UK press and the US Gentleman in the video coaching you. These are the key facts I think supporting my argument, that I am wary about facing down the UN on this, as MAGA want us to: How history got us here consists of US calling all the shots on Chagos since mid 60s, such as ethically cleanse the island, which we did for them. UK negotiated this new deal not independently from USA, but with the Biden Administration - who obviously liked it as they wrote it. And India likes it too.
To what degree do you sense you have been, and maybe still being played by the likes of the Gentleman in the video?
And why do I regularly post on PB whilst eating Sunday Lunch? 🤦♀️
Comments
An American at the table next to me has ordered a cappuccino with chocolate on top. At 11 am.
Is there to be no end to my suffering??
MAGA finding out that tariffs are not, in fact, payed by China, as they were promised.
https://x.com/notcapnamerica/status/1888024598391967806
Imagine a similar "joke" about a pedestrian run down on a Zebra crossing, or a 6 year old run down crossing the road to school where the Local Highways Authority has refused to provide such a Zebra crossing.
It's mild compared to a lot of the stuff that comes in eg Facebook groups or Youtube comments for "motorists", or even the racism-hinting dog whistles put out by some of our politicians.
But we need to require elected politicians to engage with the case or issue.
There is much more
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/08/health-minister-andrew-gwynne-sacked-over-whatsapp-comments?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Not sure about the dogs element.
AI (currently) is a tool, not a replacement - but you can probably automate 90%.
Especially as the USA is actually a (kind of) English speaking country.
"Any offence against Trump is an offence against God..."
Breakfast or brunch, even if the latter is a modern invention.
Personally I drink cortados.
You’re being an absolute snowflake, I’m afraid.
Pretty good for Starlink.
Also, I'm not boycotting Civ VII as I was planning on, at most, waiting for a deep sale and probably not buying it at all.
Albeit, it’s probably simply stupid to post such things as an MP.
I found the Turkey change pretty odd as it seemed totally unnecessary. There's also a question about dictating what someone else calls something (the Germans don't insist on Deutschland, for example).
I've occasionally clashed with Cyclefree over this (de gustibus, etc), but in her weakened state, it must be very trying. I sympathise, and wish her a quick recovery.
Try looking at an Atlas.
Have a good day, everyone.
Starmer has not instantly sacked him and condemned his remarks if he took your view
I never thought you would be an apologist for someone who makes rascist, antisemitic and wishing death on a pensioner remarks
When your elected representatives won't take you seriously, or indeed respond with a wish for your agonising death, you either give up or turn to more direct radical action.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
The consequences, if it falls flat, are integral.
Starmer fans please explain.
The MP didn’t “respond”, he made a private joke.
For all we know, the activist in question is a do-gooding pest.
I accept, however, that the UK is full of snowflakes and communicating such remarks is no longer compatible with being in the Ministry.
America’s Demographic Revolution
https://split-ticket.org/2025/02/08/americas-demographic-revolution/
I honestly found @Leon’s piece about visiting Dachau very funny, but you’d certainly be sacked as a minister if you posted something like that.
Or is Trump denying the Steal?
One of the nice things about that hospital is the proliferation of cafes in the area, and a decent avoidance of Hampstead prices if one goes the other way.
If you are an NT member, it's also worth a visit to the modernist Willow Road by Goldfinger, pop around teh corner to look at 49a Downshire Hill (Anthony Hopkins), and take in the Lawn Road (Isokon) flats which are on the way to the Belsize Park tube and look like a 1930s ocean linuer - next to (of all things) a tennis club.
(Given you, you have probably done his already
Frankly, any prolonged period of 4/5/6 major party politics is going to test FPTP to destruction. A majority of parties that can agree an alternative only has to be spat out of the random number generator once to pull it down. It's perfectly possible to imagine a scenario where the Tories implode, Davey mops up wealthy Southern England, Labour fails and is driven back into the cities, and suddenly LD + Ref + SNP = Maj in 2029. If Reform are actually serious about, well, reform then they could prop up a Lib Dem minority for exactly as long as it takes to ram PR through Parliament, followed by another election.
With a weak, floundering Government and a weak, floundering Opposition co-existing, the foundations of the current duopoly have never been shakier.
Perhaps part of the reason the UK has become a bit of a shithole is because politicians treat anyone who actually cares about something as irritating weirdos. A cultural lethargy and complacency; we'd much rather wallow in our own mediocricity and decline.
#iagreewithnick
The problem is that Gwynne's remarks as I understand it span a two year period and involve at least another Labour mp and Labour councillors no doubt all of whom did not expect them to be leaked to the Daily Mail at which point they become public knowledge, and certainly in Gwynne's case are seen as unacceptable but also the consequences for Labour as demonstrated by Trevor Philips this morning is who is the other Labour mp and why wasn't he/she been sacked as well
It remains to be seen whether sacking Gwynne has ended the story
There are no consequences for Labour, as much as you might devoutly wish it.
The actual issue for Labour is that the economy is in the doldrums, and Starmer is already a busted flush.
In reality, Gwynne has been sacked for being stupid, and for making his party look bad, not for the inherent awfulness of his thoughts.
Remember kids- if it's on the internet, it's potentially there forever.
But that's the point: if "you can never say anything crass, tasteless or blunt, even in joking form" is applied to politicians of one party, the same standards should be applied to politicians of every party.
So no I don’t think there’s an equivalence.
As usual, @stuartinromford has the best take.
The Jewish Labour movement have issued a statement saying they are appalled at the vile anti semetic rascist comments made by Andrew Gwynne
The media certainly are very much leading on this story
If you are going to go Full Lenny Bruce, remember that shock humour comes with integral consequences for failing to be funny.
The Concentration Camp Watchtower joke is funny.
Oh, and email is less secure than sending a postcard.
We are far too censorious about all this nonsense, they are mere words, whether uttered by left, right or fucking annoying centrist dads
Give people a chance to apologise, learn from mistakes, move on
If they THEN continue to be wankers, then by all means come down much harder
It's topics like this that make some people appear like silly party hacks.
I would be more interested in knowing if he actually did sort out the issue over bin collections.
It's culture war stuff, and I'm surprised to hear it from any Labour MP - even that one. We've seen how the Welsh Tories first demanded that 20mph limits be done more quickly, then turned their coats and tried to create a wedge issue to save themselves at the 2024 Election.
Enough of this chatter, and it becomes perceived as acceptable in some groups to lean out of a car and push people over, or string cables across cycle tracks. Both of these are rare, but not unknown at present. It creates what is known as a "permission structure". Members of the House of Lords (eg Hogan Howe) referring the Lords to (eg) people on cycles who he thinks are in his way as "a plague of mosquitoes" can work in a similar way, especially when combined with fictional claims.
There was another one last week down in Bournemouth in a Facebook Group called BCP and Dorset Motorists, which I track as I did much professional training down there - to keep an eye out and to do a bit of education. There was a Lib Dem Councillor gathering evidence of dangerous behaviour at primary school drop-off time by parents with their vehicles on the zig-zag markings.
He did some filming and published a video with extensive blurring (for obvious reasons).
The attempt within the group was to make him out to be a paedophile filming kids and turning it into a safeguarding issue, and it made the local paper. That's the Rebecca Brooks tabloid playbook from the 1990s. The attempt is to demonise a "cyclist", rather than address the safety concern for children wanting to walk, wheel or cycle to school.
Here's his video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIHtq1r02Zs
And here's the newspaper article:
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/24907934.cllr-adrian-chapmanlaw-regrets-alarm-filming-outside-school/
What do you think? I think the "alarm" is pure politics.
So they self-censor, so they're less funny, so standup comedy is declining fast.
Go woke, no joke, go broke.
You do realise how stupid that makes you sound?
But those are simply the values of the regime.
Also he was having pancakes with berries and scrambled eggs with ketchup. I mean, really .......
Anyway, am at home, in bed and feel bloody awful. Just utterly drained and sick, in the physical rather than the metaphysical sense. Time for a good long sleep.
Sleep is a great healer
Is there evidence this Labour MP was part of a group persecuting one individual? If so that’s a step up and worthy of much greater censure. Doubly, triply so, if aimed at a child
But we need perspective. People say stupid offensive shit on WhatsApp, in texts, on social media, they are human
(*) As happens on here on occasion, including from me...
Imagine the fun of running a town council in the 1850s, and Cassius Clay turns up to give a speech on his personal hobby horse.
This will nearly inevitably end up in a fight. On a number of previous occasions Clay has stabbed (and killed) people in such fights.
He has written a book, boasting of this.
The venue will be wrecked, maybe even burnt down. And the town will suffer a full riot, quite possibly.
Activists, eh?
He could call it “Fred” for all I care
Everyone else will carry on calling it the Gulf of Mexico
"We're allowed to take this piss out of you but you're not allowed to take the piss out of us because we're victims"...
And, punching up can be just as crass and unfunny as punching down.
An early version of Clinton’s “don’t ask, don’t tell”?
Many of them post on PB.
They make for ripe comic material.
One has a measure of human sympathy - but he's reaping the whirlwind he sowed.
No doubt you’ll soon be comparing the poor Gwynne to Adolf Hitler, who wrote “mere words” in his best-selling joke book, Mein Kampf.
Some can make a living out of writing all this down for the entertainment of readers, and fair play to them. Others get away with lots because of their nature and circumstances (Boris, Trump, Hitler for a time).
But for most positions of responsibility, most of the time, the moment the demons and the lunatic are given free expression you are taking a bet on your personal future, which you might lose. For most people sanity consists in part in keeping the demons and lunatics firmly within ones head. Civilisation rests on people generally doing so.
But how often does the FBI investigate companies rather than individuals?
In the case of Gwynne, it's politics and the nature of it. Labour want to win elections, of course they're going to ditch someone caught insulting voters who is going to reminded of that at every turn. That's politics. Michael Howard in his day sacked a Tory for stating the obvious that the Tories would cut more than they were letting on because it harmed the party's message.
In the case of the DOGE kids. Well. The question is more whether putting a load of children whose main qualification appears to be being fans of Musk (obviously they can code, but so can lots of other more experienced people). Who clearly haven't grown up enough to not behave stupidly in charge of remaking the entire US government in the first place. The fact that decisions that maybe the most controversial and consequential in 80+ years are being made by people who haven't grown out of their "haha Neo-Nazis are cool as they trigger the libs" phase of adolescent rebellion is a story.
US are playing us as their bitch on Chagos - have been doing so all along. It’s there in all the things your man didn’t say and spun around - that as patriotic Britains in our interest, not theirs, things we need to be mindful of, to cut through any “spin” in the video. I’ll repeat them, yet again.
Take the key bit, where he talks about standing beside us as we take “a hit” at the United Nations. At least he was honest about the hit - many PB pirates claim there will be no such hit!
But US won’t be taking the hit. The UN assembly have passed motions for UK to cede sovereignty, their courts have found against us on the illegality on which we took the islands, and I agree we could say no, keep appealing against it - but do you concede we cannot do this stalling without at least some reputational damage, self inflicted hit upon a senior leader in the institution?
As we swallow their “just trying to save us from our own mistake” spin your video was 100% about: we know United States (and India) behind all the “we are your special friend” have never been fans but belligerent enemies of British Colonialism - hacking away at Britains Old Empire and influence for most last hundred years - whilst, where it suits them like this - using us to do the messy stuff for them, like ethically cleanse Chagos.
When he repeats Mauritius want £18B the same £9B over 100 years lease money, but inflation proofed, that came into us after newspaper reports about Mauritius government allegedly said the agreement was inflation proofed, but both parties in the negotiation clearly and consistently deny that’s any part of the package - like we can’t guess now who planted that in the press to support their argument - are you quite comfortable repeating £18B?
I still claim I have the British Foreign Office and Chatham House on my side - whilst you have a Populist UK press and the US Gentleman in the video coaching you. These are the key facts I think supporting my argument, that I am wary about facing down the UN on this, as MAGA want us to: How history got us here consists of US calling all the shots on Chagos since mid 60s, such as ethically cleanse the island, which we did for them. UK negotiated this new deal not independently from USA, but with the Biden Administration - who obviously liked it as they wrote it. And India likes it too.
To what degree do you sense you have been, and maybe still being played by the likes of the Gentleman in the video?
- Eric Draven
Trump loyalty test for national security jobs.
JLP@JLPartnersPolls
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5h
NEW:
@JLPartnersPolls
POLARIS forecast in The Sunday Times shows Reform up to 102 seats, Labour down sharply.
🔴 LAB 200 (-211)
🔵 CON 190 (+69)
🟣 REF 102 (+97)
🟡 LDEM 70 (-2)
23 of the 40 'Red Wall' seats that delivered Boris Johnson's 2019 victory are set to go to Reform.