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Fewer than one in ten people think Badenoch would make the best PM – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,839
    kinabalu said:

    Although there's a place for non-useful things. Life enrichment etc.
    Really? But think of efficiency and humanity. If we simply converted all retired accountants to Soylent Green, we could provide a cheap, nutritious meal to every school child.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766

    Where did I suggest it was desirable? However, if someone’s down and they’ve been persecuted they tend to become revengeful.
    try reading your posts
  • I did Latin for the first three years at Grammar School, then switched to Science, where it was off the curriculum. However I’d done enough to cope with medical/pharmaceutical dog Latin. No-one nowadays uses phrases like ‘cochlum amplum’ though.
    I did the same - 'Amo Amass Amat'
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,401

    What an odd thing to want your child to have.

    I assume you support Israelis wanting that by the same principle or is it a one way street?
    I wonder about the Israelis sometimes; the uncles etc of today’s IDF largely went resignedly into the gas chambers; this generation has fought like tigers.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,839
    Carnyx said:
    Footfall - https://amzn.eu/d/8bUIPhH

    In the event of an alien invasion, it turns out that the military had a side plan - get a bunch of SF authors to act as a think tank on what the aliens might want/do.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,825
    Carnyx said:

    In terms of current relevance to modern professions, one can discount classics teachers as they have skin in the game anyway - and RC priests don't need it now so much apart from their doctrinal studies? That leaves botanists.

    Edit: and university lecturers in classics, just as one has them in Sanskrit.

    It's all going to depend on your philosophy of education; and also on whether that philosophy allows for difference. To many people it is obvious that education is there to guess what you will need in the future to get a job etc. To others the heart of education is understanding that absolutely everything we are now is built by standing on the shoulders of giants, both individuals (Newton, Darwin, Aristotle etc) and cultures (classical, religious, empiricism etc) so that in a sense there is only one subject, embracing all the others, and that is history.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,410
    Foxy said:

    There you go again, talking down Britain.
    Not Britain but British people - far too many of whom are failing in life.

    Now there are problems out involving inadequate education/training, housing affordability and the interaction of work with welfare.

    There are things which government could and should do better in helping the people generally and the disadvantaged in particular.

    Yet for all that how many of the millions of Britons with failing lives do so because of their own choices, their own behaviour.

    Why can so many immigrants come to this country get jobs, work hard, buy homes, be successful while too many of our own people cannot ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,839

    I wonder about the Israelis sometimes; the uncles etc of today’s IDF largely went resignedly into the gas chambers; this generation has fought like tigers.
    There was a time travel story (back to WWII), where a characters comments (something like) -

    “So in your world, the Germans and Japanese are pacifists? And the Jews have founded a second Sparta?”
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,825

    Footfall - https://amzn.eu/d/8bUIPhH

    In the event of an alien invasion, it turns out that the military had a side plan - get a bunch of SF authors to act as a think tank on what the aliens might want/do.
    Starmer's plan is to ask the Interstellar Aliens Regulatory Authority to ask the Martians for ideas about how to grow the economy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083
    edited January 19

    I did the same - 'Amo Amass Amat'
    Caesar adsum iam forte.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,839
    algarkirk said:

    It's all going to depend on your philosophy of education; and also on whether that philosophy allows for difference. To many people it is obvious that education is there to guess what you will need in the future to get a job etc. To others the heart of education is understanding that absolutely everything we are now is built by standing on the shoulders of giants, both individuals (Newton, Darwin, Aristotle etc) and cultures (classical, religious, empiricism etc) so that in a sense there is only one subject, embracing all the others, and that is history.
    It’s both. And the ratio of each and at what stage are an eternal battle without an answer. And differ for each human.

    As to Latin, the cancelling (in effect) of GSCEs while pupils are about to do their mocks is bizarre. And rather cruel, in a thoughtless manner.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,429

    I did the same - 'Amo Amass Amat'
    Amo, amas, amat, amamus, amatis, amant
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,825
    ydoethur said:

    Caesar adsum iam forte.
    Pompey et erat...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083
    algarkirk said:

    Pompey et erat...
    No wonder he was sic in hat.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,135
    Foxy said:

    If they couldn't destroy Hamas after 16 months of total blockade, total bombardment and total surveillance, how much longer do you think the siege needs to go on?
    Feels like a work smarter not harder situation. It's become evident over recent months that the strategy for achieving the goal of destroying Hamas has failed. I don't think that necessarily means that destroying Hamas is impossible, but either a different approach to achieving that end is required, or a different means of achieving long-term security for Israel is required.

    Either way, there's still a job for the IDF to do, even if it's a different one to what they've been doing for the past year and a bit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083

    It’s both. And the ratio of each and at what stage are an eternal battle without an answer. And differ for each human.

    As to Latin, the cancelling (in effect) of GSCEs while pupils are about to do their mocks is bizarre. And rather cruel, in a thoughtless manner.
    It will be genuinely funny if any tutor sues them for breach of contract and wins.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,825
    ydoethur said:

    No wonder he was sic in hat.
    To say nothing of Caesar sic in omnibus.
  • Amo, amas, amat, amamus, amatis, amant
    I went for the short version !!!!!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,602

    I wonder about the Israelis sometimes; the uncles etc of today’s IDF largely went resignedly into the gas chambers; this generation has fought like tigers.
    Do you think those might be connected?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,602
    ydoethur said:

    Caesar adsum iam forte.
    Pompey had a rat
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,401
    Deleted
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,401

    Do you think those might be connected?
    Yes.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,003

    I did the same - 'Amo Amass Amat'
    λύω: λύεις: λύει:

    I did Latin and Greek to O-level though I did maths and sciences at A-Level.

    I tried my Greek in Greece and it was like speaking Anglo-Saxon in England. At least I can read the letters and a few of the words are the same.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,394
    ydoethur said:

    Caesar adsum iam forte.
    Ecce homo qui est faba!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083

    Ecce homo qui est faba!
    Bean on the sauce?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,839

    Ecce homo qui est faba!
    Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083

    Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres
    Can we keep it civilia please?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,813

    Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres
    Latinus merda est.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,127

    I wonder about the Israelis sometimes; the uncles etc of today’s IDF largely went resignedly into the gas chambers; this generation has fought like tigers.
    The two are connected, the over-compensatory urge.
  • I have been thinking for quite a while how many parallels Brexit and Trump have

    I voted Remain, largely because of Cameron, and was quite shocked at the result

    We are being told continuously by those who regret Brexit, that it was won on lies and that they are far more educated and intelligent then those who voted leave

    The Democrats in the US have much the same attitude, but in both cases they lost

    Post the Brexit referendum it was incumbent on all mps to Brexit with the best deal possible ( which for me is staying in the single market whilst being outside the EU, and is still my position) but mps from all sides either wanted their own Brexit or even stop it

    It is therefore the collective failure of all sides that we have a less than perfect solution

    In the US the Democrats persisted with a failing President and completely misjudged the people

    Todays release of prisoners in the Israel - Gaza war is widely being attributed to Trump, and I expect he will end the Ukraine conflict as well

    Maybe politicians should listen more to the people, and not suggest they have the answer when clearly they haven’t

    It may upset many, but Trump is bringing something completely different to politics and watching this unfold will be fascinating
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,429

    I went for the short version !!!!!
    I loved the logic and structure and declensions and conjugations. I suppose being a scientist helped understand it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,401
    Barnesian said:

    λύω: λύεις: λύει:

    I did Latin and Greek to O-level though I did maths and sciences at A-Level.

    I tried my Greek in Greece and it was like speaking Anglo-Saxon in England. At least I can read the letters and a few of the words are the same.
    Wasn’t there something like that in ‘Captain Corelli’s Mandolin’?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,839
    ydoethur said:

    Can we keep it civilia please?
    These days, the plan is that Gaul becomes

    1) Screaming Eagles Land
    2) Malmesbury Land
    3) The bit no one wants.

    This basically - https://youtu.be/X3b9t5IET5M?si=I3wFvo6103Ezahne
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692

    I have been thinking for quite a while how many parallels Brexit and Trump have

    I voted Remain, largely because of Cameron, and was quite shocked at the result

    We are being told continuously by those who regret Brexit, that it was won on lies and that they are far more educated and intelligent then those who voted leave

    The Democrats in the US have much the same attitude, but in both cases they lost

    Post the Brexit referendum it was incumbent on all mps to Brexit with the best deal possible ( which for me is staying in the single market whilst being outside the EU, and is still my position) but mps from all sides either wanted their own Brexit or even stop it

    It is therefore the collective failure of all sides that we have a less than perfect solution

    In the US the Democrats persisted with a failing President and completely misjudged the people

    Todays release of prisoners in the Israel - Gaza war is widely being attributed to Trump, and I expect he will end the Ukraine conflict as well

    Maybe politicians should listen more to the people, and not suggest they have the answer when clearly they haven’t

    It may upset many, but Trump is bringing something completely different to politics and watching this unfold will be fascinating

    Don’t get too into Trump. You may need to do a rapid 180 in due course.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,003

    Wasn’t there something like that in ‘Captain Corelli’s Mandolin’?
    We didn't do Captain Corelli’s Mandolin.

    Our set books were Xenophon's Anabasis and Euripides Medea.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520

    What an odd thing to want your child to have.

    I assume you support Israelis wanting that by the same principle or is it a one way street?
    It certainly is with you.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083

    These days, the plan is that Gaul becomes

    1) Screaming Eagles Land
    2) Malmesbury Land
    3) The bit no one wants.

    This basically - https://youtu.be/X3b9t5IET5M?si=I3wFvo6103Ezahne
    Firs' in get or its?

    (Alright, you bloody try punning on Vercingetorix.)
  • TimS said:

    Don’t get too into Trump. You may need to do a rapid 180 in due course.
    Funnily enough I expected that response from some on here

    I am not into Trump but made an observation which I did 'qualify' when I said it may upset many
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692

    Wasn’t there something like that in ‘Captain Corelli’s Mandolin’?
    Ah, Captain Corelli’s mandolin. The epitome of uncool middlebrow among my early adulthood acquaintances, but it’s actually a rollicking good read.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,813

    I have been thinking for quite a while how many parallels Brexit and Trump have

    I voted Remain, largely because of Cameron, and was quite shocked at the result

    We are being told continuously by those who regret Brexit, that it was won on lies and that they are far more educated and intelligent then those who voted leave

    The Democrats in the US have much the same attitude, but in both cases they lost

    Post the Brexit referendum it was incumbent on all mps to Brexit with the best deal possible ( which for me is staying in the single market whilst being outside the EU, and is still my position) but mps from all sides either wanted their own Brexit or even stop it

    It is therefore the collective failure of all sides that we have a less than perfect solution

    In the US the Democrats persisted with a failing President and completely misjudged the people

    Todays release of prisoners in the Israel - Gaza war is widely being attributed to Trump, and I expect he will end the Ukraine conflict as well

    Maybe politicians should listen more to the people, and not suggest they have the answer when clearly they haven’t

    It may upset many, but Trump is bringing something completely different to politics and watching this unfold will be fascinating

    Definitely upsets me. I strongly believe the world can do without the something completely different that Trump is bringing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,477

    Politicians over the last 30 years have had a habit of passing gestural, sweeping laws embedding broad principles into legislation. Do not blame the judiciary if judges then take these laws at face value.

    The more things that governments have to comply with, the more on which they can be challenged - and the woollier the language in the Act, the greater the scope for judicial interpretation.

    If you don't like the lengthiness of the process required, don't limit people's ability to go to court to enforce the law, reform the law to enable a swifter process. Of course, if that's what you do want, you'll have to also answer for the unanticipated consequences of removing or restricting rights.
    Yes, of course these changes are down to legislation, much but not all of it from the Blair years, and yes it needs to be repealed.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,370

    Some ideas that would work with Labour politics

    1) Rework the company tax system to reward investment in plant and training, and make up the difference from taxing financialisation of companies. Buy a zillion quids worth of CNC machines - thumbs up. Borrow a zillion quid to strip the company of value - thumbs down.

    2) Training. The universities take on training and the academic side of apprenticeships. Companies buy into this service, providing the hands on side of apprenticeships, and paying money towards the classroom side. This creates nationally recognised qualifications which represent transferable skills.

    3) Create a series of experiments in helping the part time workers become full time workers. How to help them out of the tax/benefit trap.

    There is a modern apprenticeship system that sort of does (2). It was introduced by the Tories. It is, however, a ridiculously complex system that stops it from being as useful as it should be.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,951
    Scott_xP said:

    There is an interview with Michael Heseltine in The Times today. Among other things he talks about this

    He recalls his own emergence as a public figure when the Tories went into opposition in 1974. “Who was leading the attack? Me. Every day. And on Sunday, I got up and did it all over again. That’s opposition. You never take time off. And it will rapidly emerge who’s any good at it.”

    Someone who the polls suggest is clearly good at it is Nigel Farage. Virtually every conversation I have with a Conservative these days covers whether they should try to destroy Farage or do a deal with him.

    “Destroy him,” Heseltine snaps. “Farage is about economic failure and immigration. It’s the worst stirring of the racial pot.


    and this

    He thinks some sort of mobility deal allowing under-30s to live and work in the EU, which even Starmer is wary of, is a “very good idea”.

    “This is where you have to be prepared to take Farage on. Are you going to deny that to the young generations, the cultural opportunities of Europe, the social opportunities? You’ve got to be aggressive about it and paint it as an older generation denying the young what they have taken for granted all their adult lives.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/michael-heseltine-interview-nigel-farage-destroy-8dvj6jmnx

    Easily the most impressive politician of his generation. This country would be a different and better place had he succeeded Thatcher.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,559
    Carnyx said:

    In terms of current relevance to modern professions, one can discount classics teachers as they have skin in the game anyway - and RC priests don't need it now so much apart from their doctrinal studies? That leaves botanists.

    Edit: and university lecturers in classics, just as one has them in Sanskrit.

    My favourite botanical name is Capsella bursa-pastoris (Shepherd's Purse). If that ain't dog Latin I don't know what is. My least favourite is Senecio squalidus (Oxford Ragwort). I assume translating Oxford as squalidus was some sort of feeble joke by a Cambridge chap, but if it made him happy it would be cruel to complain.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,477

    Yes. but we like F&M for various reasons. ;)
    Afternoon tea there (it used to be called St James') is a treat. Go for it.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692

    Funnily enough I expected that response from some on here

    I am not into Trump but made an observation which I did 'qualify' when I said it may upset many
    The thing is, in this pre-inauguration period, being positive about Trump is a majority position. Everyone’s jumping on that wagon. “Upsetting many” is the new in-thing.

    The man is, was, and always will be a self-obsessed narcissist, a bully, a wannabe tyrant and a thoroughly unpleasant human being. Just as he was in 2016-20 (and particularly in January 2020).

    Him winning doesn’t change that. Nor does fellow bully and narcissist Netanyahu finally accepting Biden’s ceasefire proposal from last May in time for the inauguration of his friend make Trump some grand peacemaker in our time.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,171
    ydoethur said:

    It will be genuinely funny if any tutor sues them for breach of contract and wins.
    From the coverage I've seen, this is where the government initially put the breakpoint in their contract with the Latin Excellence people.

    So blame everyone's favourite fireplace salesman and former ed sec for that one.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 727
    My understanding is that Greek has developed over the centuries less than English so that Classical Greek is the equivalent to Chaucerian English and New Testament Greek is the equivalent of Elizabethan English.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,003

    Funnily enough I expected that response from some on here

    I am not into Trump but made an observation which I did 'qualify' when I said it may upset many
    I know what you mean though. Trump is a disruptor. He will break things. Some things may be better broken to possibly enable a better replacement. But most things won't. He is likely to be a disaster but there may be a faint silver lining.

    My friends tell me that I'm a hopeless optimist. Happy but always disappointed.
  • FF43 said:

    Definitely upsets me. I strongly believe the world can do without the something completely different that Trump is bringing.
    You may be right but possiblty the world has not managed to find the different answer
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,477
    edited January 19
    Leon said:

    Can I just say that I’m glad that I have effortlessly established another PB meme

    *bows with a swoop of his hat, like a cavalier*
    Not sure why you're bringing vauxhalls into it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520

    Really? But think of efficiency and humanity. If we simply converted all retired accountants to Soylent Green, we could provide a cheap, nutritious meal to every school child.
    Oh do stop it, Malmesbury.

    Ww know you're dissatisfied with your position and your place. But don't you understand it's not our problem.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083

    From the coverage I've seen, this is where the government initially put the breakpoint in their contract with the Latin Excellence people.

    So blame everyone's favourite fireplace salesman and former ed sec for that one.
    More than happy to. Even if they're not actually to blame, that would be karma.

    It may be that he and his staff were so dim they thought nobody would exercise the option midway through a year.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,564

    Easily the most impressive politician of his generation. This country would be a different and better place had he succeeded Thatcher.
    I got into the habit of watching old politics/debate shows from the 1970s during #indyref and then the in the run up to #brexit. And I don't think I can remember Heseltine appearing in more than one or two out of the dozens or hundreds I might have watched.

    Maybe he was working behind the scenes. On Sunday. In his head.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,913
    edited January 19
    Barnesian said:

    I know what you mean though. Trump is a disruptor. He will break things. Some things may be better broken to possibly enable a better replacement. But most things won't. He is likely to be a disaster but there may be a faint silver lining.

    My friends tell me that I'm a hopeless optimist. Happy but always disappointed.
    A very good response - much my view
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,003
    SandraMc said:

    My understanding is that Greek has developed over the centuries less than English so that Classical Greek is the equivalent to Chaucerian English and New Testament Greek is the equivalent of Elizabethan English.

    That figures. I speak Chaucerian Greek.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692
    edited January 19

    Not sure why you're bringing vauxhalls into it.
    Growing up I associated major car model names with boring normality. Now I realise just how exotic most of them were.

    Cavalier, Astra, Sierra, Granada, Cortina, Orion, Fiesta, Nova.

    Then there was “Escort”. What an odd name for a car.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,370
    ohnotnow said:

    I wish 'proper' home cooking/DIY skills were taught. The main home-economics lessons I remember are "how to make a knitted pom-pom" and "making a pizza" (which was a bread roll, some tomato puree and grated cheddar under the grill). Metalwork was a sort of weird garden implement that made no sense at all. Basically cutting a triangle out of a rectangle but not calling it a 'shiv'.
    They were cancelled by Thatcher when she was Education Secretary, weren't they?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,783
    Barnesian said:

    I know what you mean though. Trump is a disruptor. He will break things. Some things may be better broken to possibly enable a better replacement. But most things won't. He is likely to be a disaster but there may be a faint silver lining.

    My friends tell me that I'm a hopeless optimist. Happy but always disappointed.
    The problem is that when the Broligarchs spoke of "move fast and break things" we didn't expect them to start with democracy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520

    Feels like a work smarter not harder situation. It's become evident over recent months that the strategy for achieving the goal of destroying Hamas has failed. I don't think that necessarily means that destroying Hamas is impossible, but either a different approach to achieving that end is required, or a different means of achieving long-term security for Israel is required.

    Either way, there's still a job for the IDF to do, even if it's a different one to what they've been doing for the past year and a bit.
    I don't think 'destroying Hamas' was the primary driver of what they've done to Gaza. I think it was vengeance.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692
    ohnotnow said:

    I got into the habit of watching old politics/debate shows from the 1970s during #indyref and then the in the run up to #brexit. And I don't think I can remember Heseltine appearing in more than one or two out of the dozens or hundreds I might have watched.

    Maybe he was working behind the scenes. On Sunday. In his head.
    He was always on the Today Programme. Had the same knack as Salmond of being able to dismantle the interviewer while seeming to stay jocular and friendly.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083
    TimS said:

    Growing up I associated major car model names with boring normality. Now I realise just how exotic most of them were.

    Cavalier, Astra, Sierra, Granada, Cortina, Orion, Fiesta, Nova.

    Then there was “Escort”. What an odd name for a car.
    Although apparently they're very collectible now. Keith Vaz is said to have quite a thing for them.
  • CJohnCJohn Posts: 76

    Talking up Britain. Young British people don't want to work in mainland Europe not because there's anything wrong with them, but because they can do better elsewhere already.

    More British people went to work in Australia than the entire mainland EU combined, despite needing visas for the former and not for the latter.
    In Australia they speak Oz.
    British people can speak Oz quite well; what nearly all can't speak is French, Spanish, Italian, German, Polish.

    So of course they have to fuck off all the way to the southern hemisphere or the US to get jobs requiring speech.


    , in Europe they don't an
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692
    edited January 19
    kinabalu said:

    I don't think 'destroying Hamas' was the primary driver of what they've done to Gaza. I think it was vengeance.
    The traditional Israeli approach - seen to great effect vs Heszbollah - of a series of assassinations of the top brass, would surely have had a far better impact than the brutal collective punishment they’ve run with.

    I assume the difference is in the psychology of vengeance. Hezbollah are seen as an organised political foe. Hamas are seen as the representatives of an entire hostile population.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,564

    There is a modern apprenticeship system that sort of does (2). It was introduced by the Tories. It is, however, a ridiculously complex system that stops it from being as useful as it should be.
    It's also not really functioning as (I'd guess) intended. It's open to anyone over 16. We've had people in their 60s apply for it. Fine, in a way - you want to learn a new skill. But you're doing some youngster out of a rung on the ladder.

    I wish the UK as a whole wasn't as 'snobby' about vocational training and qualifications. I've had amazing, eager people with college certificates apply for jobs and seen them not get offered a place as they didn't have a degree. You know. A proper qualification. It's really quite depressing.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,135
    edited January 19
    When Thatcher first became Tory leader most people didn't think she'd become PM or be an effective PM if she did.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,477
    ohnotnow said:

    I got into the habit of watching old politics/debate shows from the 1970s during #indyref and then the in the run up to #brexit. And I don't think I can remember Heseltine appearing in more than one or two out of the dozens or hundreds I might have watched.

    Maybe he was working behind the scenes. On Sunday. In his head.
    I am impressed with Heseltine for being alive - good for him. But if the above example of cliched reflexive unthinking euroloonery - "destroy him" is the makes him the most impressive politician of anything, God help us all.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,502
    TimS said:

    The traditional Israeli approach - seen to great effect vs Heszbollah - of a series of assassinations of the top brass, would surely have had a far better impact than the brutal collective punishment they’ve run with.

    I assume the difference is in the psychology of vengeance. Hezbollah are seen as an
    organised political foe. Hamas are seen as the representatives of an entire hostile population.
    I thought it wa a because the Hamas top brass cleared off to Qatar, whereas the Hezbollah leaders were dumb enough to stay in Lebanon.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,171

    They were cancelled by Thatcher when she was Education Secretary, weren't they?
    More recently than that- in fact, learning to cook is still in the National Curriculum;

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-design-and-technology-programmes-of-study/national-curriculum-in-england-design-and-technology-programmes-of-study#key-stage-3

    But one of the academy freedoms (so brought in under Blair and turbocharged by the coalition) is to be able to ignore the National Curriculum. Not wasting time or money on cooking lessons frees up time to get better GCSE results.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,564

    Talking up Britain. Young British people don't want to work in mainland Europe not because there's anything wrong with them, but because they can do better elsewhere already.

    More British people went to work in Australia than the entire mainland EU combined, despite needing visas for the former and not for the latter.
    We're also really good at filling in forms, and not very good at foreign languages.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692
    tlg86 said:

    I thought it wa a because the Hamas top brass cleared off to Qatar, whereas the Hezbollah leaders were dumb enough to stay in Lebanon.
    Yes that’s probably part of the calculation. But I think there was also raw rage and the desire to meet out a punishment beating to Gaza, which was never there with Hezbollah.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,564
    TimS said:

    He was always on the Today Programme. Had the same knack as Salmond of being able to dismantle the interviewer while seeming to stay jocular and friendly.
    Ah! I think the modern incarnation of the Today Programme has made me wipe it from my historical searches. I might see if I can find old recordings from interesting times.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,127
    kinabalu said:

    I don't think 'destroying Hamas' was the primary driver of what they've done to Gaza. I think it was vengeance.
    If nations and peoples can have collective personalities, for Israel it’s definitely personal with Gaza, and Palestinians generally.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083
    CJohn said:

    In Australia they speak Oz.
    British people can speak Oz quite well; what nearly all can't speak is French, Spanish, Italian, German, Polish.

    So of course they have to fuck off all the way to the southern hemisphere or the US to get jobs requiring speech.


    , in Europe they don't an
    They speak Oz? Surely not. They speak Strine.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,564

    They were cancelled by Thatcher when she was Education Secretary, weren't they?
    Not sure. Being in the wilds of Scotland at the time I'm not sure if her policies were in effect here or not.

    Though I do remember being made to drink weird little cartons of warm milk. I wish those had been cancelled. Claggy, manky, warm heat-treated milk. Snatch away!
  • Sky saying Trump is to give a 90 minute victory speech

    Live on Sky
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520

    Sky saying Trump is to give a 90 minute victory speech

    Live on Sky

    The snooker's on.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,196
    TimS said:

    Growing up I associated major car model names with boring normality. Now I realise just how exotic most of them were.

    Cavalier, Astra, Sierra, Granada, Cortina, Orion, Fiesta, Nova.

    Then there was “Escort”. What an odd name for a car.
    Indeed and it was also the name of a ‘jazz mag’ as was Fiesta.

    There was never a Ford Razzle IIRC.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083

    Sky saying Trump is to give a 90 minute victory speech

    Live on Sky

    I hope the autocue is working this time.

    Or maybe not, as him babbling inanely about sharks and judges' sons who turn out to be New York Post reporters would add considerably to the gaiety of the nation and make the Yanks look even sillier than they already do.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,975
    TimS said:

    Growing up I associated major car model names with boring normality. Now I realise just how exotic most of them were.

    Cavalier, Astra, Sierra, Granada, Cortina, Orion, Fiesta, Nova.

    Then there was “Escort”. What an odd name for a car.
    The Escort is called "Escortti" in Finnish, which led to a joke-pun misunderstanding with "S-kortti" in Aki Kaurismäki's film The Grump
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692
    ohnotnow said:

    We're also really good at filling in forms, and not very good at foreign languages.
    It’s entirely logical that we’re not good at foreign languages, because we don’t need to be. We speak the lingua franca already.

    We are good at 2 other things our European and American counterparts are rubbish at: driving on the other side of the road when on holiday (its second nature to us but terrifying to Euro and US visitors to Britain), and converting effortlessly between imperial and metric.

    I mean how many nations on earth would you find saying “I had to drive 25 miles to get to the start of my 10k run. It was bloody freezing, only 10 Celsius when we started. Last year it was in the 80s. Still, it’s all helping with the diet. I’ve shed 5 kilos since I started and my waistline is 2 inches smaller.”
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,839
    ohnotnow said:

    It's also not really functioning as (I'd guess) intended. It's open to anyone over 16. We've had people in their 60s apply for it. Fine, in a way - you want to learn a new skill. But you're doing some youngster out of a rung on the ladder.

    I wish the UK as a whole wasn't as 'snobby' about vocational training and qualifications. I've had amazing, eager people with college certificates apply for jobs and seen them not get offered a place as they didn't have a degree. You know. A proper qualification. It's really quite depressing.
    Which is why I want to merge it with the Universities.

    "So, you have a First in CNC operation and Elizabethan Poetry from Kings, Cambridge?"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,042
    TimS said:

    It’s entirely logical that we’re not good at foreign languages, because we don’t need to be. We speak the lingua franca already.

    We are good at 2 other things our European and American counterparts are rubbish at: driving on the other side of the road when on holiday (its second nature to us but terrifying to Euro and US visitors to Britain), and converting effortlessly between imperial and metric.

    I mean how many nations on earth would you find saying “I had to drive 25 miles to get to the start of my 10k run. It was bloody freezing, only 10 Celsius when we started. Last year it was in the 80s. Still, it’s all helping with the diet. I’ve shed 5 kilos since I started and my waistline is 2 inches smaller.”
    Brilliant.

    Can I also recommend this: https://youtu.be/JYqfVE-fykk?si=Z3uz_OxLt_6FFl_Y
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,879
    Taz said:

    Indeed and it was also the name of a ‘jazz mag’ as was Fiesta.

    There was never a Ford Razzle IIRC.

    It's really bad that I can't do Latin chat or Heseltine talk but I'm happy to get into it when it's Razzle and Escort.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,429

    Sky saying Trump is to give a 90 minute victory speech

    Live on Sky

    Why am I not surprised it's on sky. Trump only needs to Trump for it to be Breeeaaaking News!!!
    I hope BBC news had better things to cover.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,564
    TimS said:

    It’s entirely logical that we’re not good at foreign languages, because we don’t need to be. We speak the lingua franca already.

    We are good at 2 other things our European and American counterparts are rubbish at: driving on the other side of the road when on holiday (its second nature to us but terrifying to Euro and US visitors to Britain), and converting effortlessly between imperial and metric.

    I mean how many nations on earth would you find saying “I had to drive 25 miles to get to the start of my 10k run. It was bloody freezing, only 10 Celsius when we started. Last year it was in the 80s. Still, it’s all helping with the diet. I’ve shed 5 kilos since I started and my waistline is 2 inches smaller.”
    It'll be interesting to see if the "Babel Fish" aspect of the LLM's being available have any effect on this. I'd guess not for a while as it's still really handy to be able to quickly say "Aye, some of those - ta!". But we're not that far off a universal translator in our ears.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692
    edited January 19
    Taz said:

    Indeed and it was also the name of a ‘jazz mag’ as was Fiesta.

    There was never a Ford Razzle IIRC.

    I could imagine a porno mag called Vanden Plas.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,839
    TimS said:

    It’s entirely logical that we’re not good at foreign languages, because we don’t need to be. We speak the lingua franca already.

    We are good at 2 other things our European and American counterparts are rubbish at: driving on the other side of the road when on holiday (its second nature to us but terrifying to Euro and US visitors to Britain), and converting effortlessly between imperial and metric.

    I mean how many nations on earth would you find saying “I had to drive 25 miles to get to the start of my 10k run. It was bloody freezing, only 10 Celsius when we started. Last year it was in the 80s. Still, it’s all helping with the diet. I’ve shed 5 kilos since I started and my waistline is 2 inches smaller.”
    How many furlongs was that? Also, many kids seem to use stones for weight. And kilos for everything else.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083
    edited January 19

    How many furlongs was that? Also, many kids seem to use stones for weight. And kilos for everything else.
    So they're only pro-grams for certain actions?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    My favourite botanical name is Capsella bursa-pastoris (Shepherd's Purse). If that ain't dog Latin I don't know what is. My least favourite is Senecio squalidus (Oxford Ragwort). I assume translating Oxford as squalidus was some sort of feeble joke by a Cambridge chap, but if it made him happy it would be cruel to complain.
    I don't know - it seems perfectly sound classical Latin to me, but IANAE. Not like some of those mediaeval charters.

    As for the ragwort, it's an original Linnean name, i.e. by Carl von Linne in the mid-C18, so can't be a Fenland joke unless there is some Swedish connexion I am missing. Maybe it just looked scrubby.

    Never forgotten beiong taught at school about its seed being transported by the Victorian railways ...

    https://archive.bsbi.org.uk/Wats24p31.pdf
    https://botanicalepithets.net/dictionary/dictionary.170.html
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,370

    More recently than that- in fact, learning to cook is still in the National Curriculum;

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-design-and-technology-programmes-of-study/national-curriculum-in-england-design-and-technology-programmes-of-study#key-stage-3

    But one of the academy freedoms (so brought in under Blair and turbocharged by the coalition) is to be able to ignore the National Curriculum. Not wasting time or money on cooking lessons frees up time to get better GCSE results.
    There was a shift under Thatcher from cooking lessons to food technology, before all that.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692

    How many furlongs was that? Also, many kids seem to use stones for weight. And kilos for everything else.
    And TV screens are always measured in inches.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    It's really bad that I can't do Latin chat or Heseltine talk but I'm happy to get into it when it's Razzle and Escort.
    Maxi was a woman's skirt. So too, on a much smaller scale, was Mini.
  • Why am I not surprised it's on sky. Trump only needs to Trump for it to be Breeeaaaking News!!!
    I hope BBC news had better things to cover.
    BBC just showing live pictures from Washington

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,839
    ohnotnow said:

    It'll be interesting to see if the "Babel Fish" aspect of the LLM's being available have any effect on this. I'd guess not for a while as it's still really handy to be able to quickly say "Aye, some of those - ta!". But we're not that far off a universal translator in our ears.
    A number of people who I used to work with are scattered around Europe. They tell me that to an astonishing degree, business is conducted in English. Even in France, if the company is vaguely "forward looking", the meetings are held in English.

    Easy to see why - English is the new lingua franca of the world, and expecting anyone from India to speak German (say) without years of training.....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Which is why I want to merge it with the Universities.

    "So, you have a First in CNC operation and Elizabethan Poetry from Kings, Cambridge?"
    OTOH the latter wouldn't date so quickly, at least in terms of content rather than developed skills.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,429

    BBC just showing live pictures from Washington

    Oh dear...
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,975

    How many furlongs was that? Also, many kids seem to use stones for weight. And kilos for everything else.
    The hundredweight cwt is of course 112 pounds just to keep foreigners on their toes.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,394

    A number of people who I used to work with are scattered around Europe. They tell me that to an astonishing degree, business is conducted in English. Even in France, if the company is vaguely "forward looking", the meetings are held in English.

    Easy to see why - English is the new lingua franca of the world, and expecting anyone from India to speak German (say) without years of training.....
    I keep telling you - English is the best language in the world!
This discussion has been closed.