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Fewer than one in ten people think Badenoch would make the best PM – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,261
edited January 19 in General
imageFewer than one in ten people think Badenoch would make the best PM – politicalbetting.com

Whilst there is a strong incumbency bias in best PM polling it is notable when a PM doesn’t consistently lead in this metric but what I find notable in this polling that Kemi Badenoch is a rounding error away from being fourth in what normally has been a two horse race for decades.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,954
    Fewer than one in ten people are wrong. ;)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,954
    But the people who think Farage would make the best PM are insane.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Good morning, everyone.

    Should've been Hunt. Cleverly would've been better of those who stood. Farcical his own supporters fell for Jenrick's nonsense.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,899
    edited January 19
    Times change....Spurs are 15th in the Premier League..... Notts Forest are 4th.. Bournemouth are 6th...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,658
    I don’t think you can make a direct judgement here.

    I’d exclude Farage from the analysis - haven’t looked at the detail but suspect that they are all Reform loyalists.

    Kemi has struggled with air time - perhaps a weakness - but I don’t think anyone could break the Farage love in with the media at the moment. Mostly people are just saying “don’t know”.

    It’s Starmer being in second place that is the interesting finding here
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,530

    Times change....Spurs are 15th in the Premier League..... Notts Forest are 4th.. Bournemouth are 6th...

    Liverpool are still six points clear with a game in hand. ⚽️

    YNWA.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    Sandpit said:

    NOTA gets 44%, is that a record and more worthy of the headline?

    They must have asked PB readers, and we split evenly between TSE and Cyclefree.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,530
    FPT:

    Dave Chappelle doing a 17-minute opening monologue on SNL. Something for everyone there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57pGarTBJrU
  • By the way Elon Musk is a twat who ruins everything he touches.

    It is now close to impossible to embed Tweets in thread headers.

    In the past all you had to do was post a link to the Tweet, now you have to arse around for five mins with embed codes.
  • Sandpit said:

    NOTA gets 44%, is that a record and more worthy of the headline?

    It has been higher in the past, notably in the Johnson/Corbyn era.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158

    By the way Elon Musk is a twat who ruins everything he touches.

    He is not just the exemplification but the veritable personification of Lord Cameron's first law of tweets.

    And as he makes them all directly or indirectly, he must be the Perfect Twat.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,856
    I am back from visiting the in-laws in India. Is the SMO over yet?

    The tories have a lot of problems but their biggest problem, Olukemi, is at least one they can do something about. At this point they might as well let her take the hit for the locals before they fuck her off. She'll be the fifth tory leader that SKS has seen off.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    edited January 19
    Dura_Ace said:

    I am back from visiting the in-laws in India. Is the SMO over yet?

    The tories have a lot of problems but their biggest problem, Olukemi, is at least one they can do something about. At this point they might as well let her take the hit for the locals before they fuck her off. She'll be the fifth tory leader that SKS has seen off.

    I don't think it starts until tomorrow, does it?

    Oh, you mean Ukraine not Panama?

    (I make it four, by the way - Johnson, Truss, Sunak are the other three.)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,856

    By the way Elon Musk is a twat who ruins everything he touches.

    His PoE2 streaming fiasco where claimed to be Level 97 on hardcore and then was shit at the game was (lol*lmao)^kek. Bro got fucking cooked in the chat.
  • Betty Brown didn’t celebrate her 92nd birthday on Monday like a typical nonagenarian.

    Instead, the Glaswegian grandmother blew out the candles on her pink birthday cake in the green room of the BBC studios after appearing on Newsnight, and the next morning met the post office minister in Whitehall.

    “My week has been exciting, unbelievable, unexpected — and just wonderful,” says Brown, who in the past year has become one of the key voices in the sub-postmasters’ campaign for justice. Beaming, she warms her hands on a cup of tea in the kitchen of her son Alastair’s farmhouse in Co Durham while her two grandsons potter around.

    After decades feeling ashamed of having lost everything when she handed back the keys to her beloved post office in the northeast of England, Brown is now in the spotlight. As the oldest member of the Justice for Sub-postmasters Alliance, founded by Sir Alan Bates, she is demanding justice — and payouts — for wronged sub-postmasters.

    A year after the Post Office scandal came to prominence, thanks to the hit ITV series Mr Bates vs The Post Office, victims are still waiting for their claims to be settled. Sub-postmasters lost thousands of pounds, their jobs and in some cases their homes when the company’s Horizon computer system, rolled out in branches in the early 2000s, proved defective.

    Now Brown and hundreds of other sub-postmasters are trapped in an Kafka-esque nightmare. A team of government-funded independent psychologists, forensic accountants and lawyers have been deployed to assess individuals and come up with a “financial redress” figure for them to claim compensation. Yet application forms filled with legal jargon can be filled out only by lawyers. The Department for Business and Trade aims to provide an offer in 40 working days. “The victims are being re-victimised,” says Brown.

    At the same time claims are being contested by an “independent panel” in the Department for Business and Trade. Many sub-postmasters, after spending hours filling out forms, have been offered as little as 10 per cent of their total claim amounts. Brown has been offered 29 per cent. Bates, the leader of a group of sub-postmasters who 2019 won a High Court Group Litigation Order (GLO) case against the Post Office, was initially offered 16 per cent of his claim. His second offer was upped to about 30 per cent. He has still not accepted and has forwarded his claim to be reviewed again by Sir Ross Cranston.

    “It’s disgusting,” says Brown. “I had nothing to do with the amount that’s on that claim because it’s independently assessed,” she says.

    Many of the group have been left feeling as if they are being tested again — and are stuck in a deadlock, where the government is refusing to pay out. And Brown is not getting any younger.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/at-92-ive-been-re-victimised-by-the-post-office-scandal-zscp7kdzt
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    A Labour leader severing past four Tory leaders and into his fifth would equal Blair's record. And it took Blair over 11 years to reach that point.

    One thing perhaps we should all remember about Starmer is his remarkable capacity for confounding expectations. It's less than five years since Hartlepool when we were all talking about the imminent Labour leadership election and who would replace him.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,856
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I am back from visiting the in-laws in India. Is the SMO over yet?

    The tories have a lot of problems but their biggest problem, Olukemi, is at least one they can do something about. At this point they might as well let her take the hit for the locals before they fuck her off. She'll be the fifth tory leader that SKS has seen off.

    I don't think it starts until tomorrow, does it?

    Oh, you mean Ukraine not Panama?

    (I make it four, by the way - Johnson, Truss, Sunak are the other three.)
    You are right. I had thought he was Labour leader just before May spasmodically danced off our national stage but he wasn't.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,064

    Sandpit said:

    NOTA gets 44%, is that a record and more worthy of the headline?

    It has been higher in the past, notably in the Johnson/Corbyn era.
    These polling figures are odd of course, but predictable. What remains odd is that in the political world there is a lack of a sense of the next tier of stellar leadership at different places on the greasy pole. Labour have one or two prominent figures but no more than that. The Tories have none at all, not even a few vague names. The LDs have none. And - this could be important - Reform have none. The SNP have Kate Forbes. Weird; and a bit troubling.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    I wonder if the Russian Orthodox Church have thought through their latest announcement that the war in Ukraine began because of masturbation?

    I mean, calling Putin a tosser isn't wrong but isn't a great health or career move.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,856
    ydoethur said:

    A Labour leader severing past four Tory leaders and into his fifth would equal Blair's record. And it took Blair over 11 years to reach that point.

    One thing perhaps we should all remember about Starmer is his remarkable capacity for confounding expectations. It's less than five years since Hartlepool when we were all talking about the imminent Labour leadership election and who would replace him.

    Buddy can grind. No doubt.

    I think he's been written off every week on here since he became Labour leader. Kemi has the same chance of leading the tories into the next GE as do you or I. Outside chance of him getting #6 if the tories pick somebody scandal prone with an ossuary for a closet.


  • TazTaz Posts: 15,736

    Times change....Spurs are 15th in the Premier League..... Notts Forest are 4th.. Bournemouth are 6th...

    We were in Newcastle yesterday for a nice meal, Eritrean/Ethiopian very pleasant, lots of entitled and sad faced geordies moping around after their hammering by Bournemouth. A team all my toon fan co workers said they’d thrash !
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,736
    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,570

    By the way Elon Musk is a twat who ruins everything he touches.

    It is now close to impossible to embed Tweets in thread headers.

    In the past all you had to do was post a link to the Tweet, now you have to arse around for five mins with embed codes.

    BlueSky is the way ahead...

    😇
  • Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,064

    Betty Brown didn’t celebrate her 92nd birthday on Monday like a typical nonagenarian.

    Instead, the Glaswegian grandmother blew out the candles on her pink birthday cake in the green room of the BBC studios after appearing on Newsnight, and the next morning met the post office minister in Whitehall.

    “My week has been exciting, unbelievable, unexpected — and just wonderful,” says Brown, who in the past year has become one of the key voices in the sub-postmasters’ campaign for justice. Beaming, she warms her hands on a cup of tea in the kitchen of her son Alastair’s farmhouse in Co Durham while her two grandsons potter around.

    After decades feeling ashamed of having lost everything when she handed back the keys to her beloved post office in the northeast of England, Brown is now in the spotlight. As the oldest member of the Justice for Sub-postmasters Alliance, founded by Sir Alan Bates, she is demanding justice — and payouts — for wronged sub-postmasters.

    A year after the Post Office scandal came to prominence, thanks to the hit ITV series Mr Bates vs The Post Office, victims are still waiting for their claims to be settled. Sub-postmasters lost thousands of pounds, their jobs and in some cases their homes when the company’s Horizon computer system, rolled out in branches in the early 2000s, proved defective.

    Now Brown and hundreds of other sub-postmasters are trapped in an Kafka-esque nightmare. A team of government-funded independent psychologists, forensic accountants and lawyers have been deployed to assess individuals and come up with a “financial redress” figure for them to claim compensation. Yet application forms filled with legal jargon can be filled out only by lawyers. The Department for Business and Trade aims to provide an offer in 40 working days. “The victims are being re-victimised,” says Brown.

    At the same time claims are being contested by an “independent panel” in the Department for Business and Trade. Many sub-postmasters, after spending hours filling out forms, have been offered as little as 10 per cent of their total claim amounts. Brown has been offered 29 per cent. Bates, the leader of a group of sub-postmasters who 2019 won a High Court Group Litigation Order (GLO) case against the Post Office, was initially offered 16 per cent of his claim. His second offer was upped to about 30 per cent. He has still not accepted and has forwarded his claim to be reviewed again by Sir Ross Cranston.

    “It’s disgusting,” says Brown. “I had nothing to do with the amount that’s on that claim because it’s independently assessed,” she says.

    Many of the group have been left feeling as if they are being tested again — and are stuck in a deadlock, where the government is refusing to pay out. And Brown is not getting any younger.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/at-92-ive-been-re-victimised-by-the-post-office-scandal-zscp7kdzt

    These are exacly that matters we vote switchers voted Labour for, as the only possible government to clear up historic messes in a timely manner. Making the NHS perfect takes time, and we know that. But 6 months is too long for clearing up what are, compared with NHS or lack of national defence, small issues.

    Add this to the indifference about social care (the basic structure of reforms should by now be absolutely clear even if implementation had to wait a year or so) to the dismal list.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 123
    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    A Labour leader severing past four Tory leaders and into his fifth would equal Blair's record. And it took Blair over 11 years to reach that point.

    One thing perhaps we should all remember about Starmer is his remarkable capacity for confounding expectations. It's less than five years since Hartlepool when we were all talking about the imminent Labour leadership election and who would replace him.

    Buddy can grind. No doubt.

    I think he's been written off every week on here since he became Labour leader. Kemi has the same chance of leading the tories into the next GE as do you or I. Outside chance of him getting #6 if the tories pick somebody scandal prone with an ossuary for a closet.


    LOL
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,064
    ydoethur said:

    A Labour leader severing past four Tory leaders and into his fifth would equal Blair's record. And it took Blair over 11 years to reach that point.

    One thing perhaps we should all remember about Starmer is his remarkable capacity for confounding expectations. It's less than five years since Hartlepool when we were all talking about the imminent Labour leadership election and who would replace him.

    He has not confounded expectations in any good way in relation to the government's task of problem solving and explanation of direction. A half decent and trusted opposition would demolish them. He is lucky in having no alternative government in waiting; so vacant is the space that Farage is getting taleked up.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,570

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
    How much is roast baby nowadays?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,821
    edited January 19

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
    You two don't lunch together daily. The implication in her case is £12.70 a day - implying well upward of £2K a year.

    And it's not so long ago that Gen Xers and millennials' lack of housing was blamed by Tories on a liking for avocados.

    Edit: I have no particuiar opinion on the matter myself. But one can see how it goes down (so to speak) in a society where a Sainsbury or Boots Meal Deal is luxury for many.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,570
    On topic, that 44% DK doesn't just work for Badenoch of course.

    The big move in polling is mostly to DK, particularly from Labour. They have not so much switched as gone back to political slumber. It doesn't mean that they are lost to Labour either.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,242

    I don’t think you can make a direct judgement here.

    I’d exclude Farage from the analysis - haven’t looked at the detail but suspect that they are all Reform loyalists.

    Kemi has struggled with air time - perhaps a weakness - but I don’t think anyone could break the Farage love in with the media at the moment. Mostly people are just saying “don’t know”.

    It’s Starmer being in second place that is the interesting finding here

    She hasn't 'struggled with air time', she hasn't done any interviews.

    Which is probably just as well as she has nothing to say.
  • Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
    How much is roast baby nowadays?
    At Claridge's it was £195 plus service charge.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,668
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    NOTA gets 44%, is that a record and more worthy of the headline?

    It has been higher in the past, notably in the Johnson/Corbyn era.
    These polling figures are odd of course, but predictable. What remains odd is that in the political world there is a lack of a sense of the next tier of stellar leadership at different places on the greasy pole. Labour have one or two prominent figures but no more than that. The Tories have none at all, not even a few vague names. The LDs have none. And - this could be important - Reform have none. The SNP have Kate Forbes. Weird; and a bit troubling.
    Whatever the rights or wrongs of the last decade of politics, it has played merry hell with the promotion pipeline.

    Besides- what we all want really is a leader to solve the nation's chronic problems in a way that doesn't really inconvenience us. Hence Farage's popularity with fans who hear the sizzle but ignore the lack of realistic sausage. Starmer doesn't really have a fandom; even if he ultimately succeeds, I don't see that changing.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,576
    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    I assume it’s an ironic take on Tory comments about young people and avocado on toast / Netflix / not being able to buy a house.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,736

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
    I’m guessing it’s not the local Spoons for a pie and a pint.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,469
    ydoethur said:

    A Labour leader severing past four Tory leaders and into his fifth would equal Blair's record. And it took Blair over 11 years to reach that point.

    One thing perhaps we should all remember about Starmer is his remarkable capacity for confounding expectations. It's less than five years since Hartlepool when we were all talking about the imminent Labour leadership election and who would replace him.

    He was the beneficiary of the notion that "Governments lose elections rather than Oppositions win them".

    Hopefully once the broadcast and print media are over their fixation with trying to make Farage PM, Kemi will get a look in. Remember Starmer was a slow starter and still became PM.

    If Badenoch fails, the alternative spectre of Jenrick looms large. On that thought, perhaps Farage isn't so bad after all.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,530
    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Oh no, not £12.70 on lunch. No-one has ever spent so much on lunch before. Err…
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,736
    edited January 19
    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    I assume it’s an ironic take on Tory comments about young people and avocado on toast / Netflix / not being able to buy a house.
    I thought that at first but not from the journalists twitter feed where he just doubles down on it. Unless that is simply him tweeting for clicks.

    Is the Mirror really capable of that level of irony ? I’ve not read it for donkeys.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,576

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    NOTA gets 44%, is that a record and more worthy of the headline?

    It has been higher in the past, notably in the Johnson/Corbyn era.
    These polling figures are odd of course, but predictable. What remains odd is that in the political world there is a lack of a sense of the next tier of stellar leadership at different places on the greasy pole. Labour have one or two prominent figures but no more than that. The Tories have none at all, not even a few vague names. The LDs have none. And - this could be important - Reform have none. The SNP have Kate Forbes. Weird; and a bit troubling.
    Whatever the rights or wrongs of the last decade of politics, it has played merry hell with the promotion pipeline.

    Besides- what we all want really is a leader to solve the nation's chronic problems in a way that doesn't really inconvenience us. Hence Farage's popularity with fans who hear the sizzle but ignore the lack of realistic sausage. Starmer doesn't really have a fandom; even if he ultimately succeeds, I don't see that changing.
    The Lib Dems don’t have none. There are 3 or 4 competent politicians in reasonably safe (it’s all relative when you’re Lib Dem) seats. Daisy Cooper, Munira Wilson, Calum Miller, Josh Babarinde. And my next but one leader tip on the left of the party: Bobby Dean.
  • Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
    I’m guessing it’s not the local Spoons for a pie and a pint.
    Spoons is a bit too upmarket for us horny handed sons of toil, last time we had our annual dinner at Claridge's and next month we're here.

    https://balthazarlondon.com/menus/

    I know, me eating at a French restaurant.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,736
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
    How much is roast baby nowadays?
    Ask the Bishop of Bath and Wells.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,576
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    I assume it’s an ironic take on Tory comments about young people and avocado on toast / Netflix / not being able to buy a house.
    I thought that at first but not from the journalists twitter feed where he just doubles down on it. Unless that is simply him tweeting for clicks.

    Is the Mirror really capable of that level of irony ? I’ve not read it for donkeys.
    The Star seems more that inclined, I don’t read the Mirror either but the connection seems too obvious not to be the trigger.

    £12.70 is actually quite reasonable for a steak.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,469
    edited January 19
    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    £12.70 for a steak lunch? I'd say the lady can spot a bargain.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,530

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
    How much is roast baby nowadays?
    At Claridge's it was £195 plus service charge.
    (Let’s all hope that Claridge’s lawyers aren’t in a bad mood on a Sunday morning).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,242
    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    A Labour leader severing past four Tory leaders and into his fifth would equal Blair's record. And it took Blair over 11 years to reach that point.

    One thing perhaps we should all remember about Starmer is his remarkable capacity for confounding expectations. It's less than five years since Hartlepool when we were all talking about the imminent Labour leadership election and who would replace him.

    Buddy can grind. No doubt.

    I think he's been written off every week on here since he became Labour leader. Kemi has the same chance of leading the tories into the next GE as do you or I. Outside chance of him getting #6 if the tories pick somebody scandal prone with an ossuary for a closet.


    'Buddy can grind' - cringe. This defender of Sir Lard-bucket schtick from you is unutterably grim.

    SKS has somehow even made you turn shit.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,736
    algarkirk said:

    Betty Brown didn’t celebrate her 92nd birthday on Monday like a typical nonagenarian.

    Instead, the Glaswegian grandmother blew out the candles on her pink birthday cake in the green room of the BBC studios after appearing on Newsnight, and the next morning met the post office minister in Whitehall.

    “My week has been exciting, unbelievable, unexpected — and just wonderful,” says Brown, who in the past year has become one of the key voices in the sub-postmasters’ campaign for justice. Beaming, she warms her hands on a cup of tea in the kitchen of her son Alastair’s farmhouse in Co Durham while her two grandsons potter around.

    After decades feeling ashamed of having lost everything when she handed back the keys to her beloved post office in the northeast of England, Brown is now in the spotlight. As the oldest member of the Justice for Sub-postmasters Alliance, founded by Sir Alan Bates, she is demanding justice — and payouts — for wronged sub-postmasters.

    A year after the Post Office scandal came to prominence, thanks to the hit ITV series Mr Bates vs The Post Office, victims are still waiting for their claims to be settled. Sub-postmasters lost thousands of pounds, their jobs and in some cases their homes when the company’s Horizon computer system, rolled out in branches in the early 2000s, proved defective.

    Now Brown and hundreds of other sub-postmasters are trapped in an Kafka-esque nightmare. A team of government-funded independent psychologists, forensic accountants and lawyers have been deployed to assess individuals and come up with a “financial redress” figure for them to claim compensation. Yet application forms filled with legal jargon can be filled out only by lawyers. The Department for Business and Trade aims to provide an offer in 40 working days. “The victims are being re-victimised,” says Brown.

    At the same time claims are being contested by an “independent panel” in the Department for Business and Trade. Many sub-postmasters, after spending hours filling out forms, have been offered as little as 10 per cent of their total claim amounts. Brown has been offered 29 per cent. Bates, the leader of a group of sub-postmasters who 2019 won a High Court Group Litigation Order (GLO) case against the Post Office, was initially offered 16 per cent of his claim. His second offer was upped to about 30 per cent. He has still not accepted and has forwarded his claim to be reviewed again by Sir Ross Cranston.

    “It’s disgusting,” says Brown. “I had nothing to do with the amount that’s on that claim because it’s independently assessed,” she says.

    Many of the group have been left feeling as if they are being tested again — and are stuck in a deadlock, where the government is refusing to pay out. And Brown is not getting any younger.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/at-92-ive-been-re-victimised-by-the-post-office-scandal-zscp7kdzt

    These are exacly that matters we vote switchers voted Labour for, as the only possible government to clear up historic messes in a timely manner. Making the NHS perfect takes time, and we know that. But 6 months is too long for clearing up what are, compared with NHS or lack of national defence, small issues.

    Add this to the indifference about social care (the basic structure of reforms should by now be absolutely clear even if implementation had to wait a year or so) to the dismal list.
    Labour really are proving just to be as shit as the Tories. Surely an easy win for them and good PR just to make the process far simpler and get it over the line. Looks like the big winners will be the govt appointed professionals who will be trousering their cash as they go along. It’s in their interests for this to go on and on as well.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,570

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    £12.70 for a steak lunch? I'd say the lady can spot a bargain.
    Looking at the Farmer J website it's not a whole steak, more accurately few slices of flank, with rice and some sides.

    Better than a Big Mac, but why not eat in one of Parliaments multiple subsidised spots?
  • More than 10 years some Israelis have been held hostage by Hamas. I wasn't aware of this. No wonder many in Israel question the wisdom of this ceasefire.

    Ethiopian-Israeli Avera Mengistu and Bedouin Arab Israeli Hisham al-Sayed were seized in 2014 and 2015 respectively after they crossed into Gaza on their own. The Israeli government has said both suffered from mental health issues at the time. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly4j92je1wo

  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,282
    edited January 19
    Foxy said:

    On topic, that 44% DK doesn't just work for Badenoch of course.

    The big move in polling is mostly to DK, particularly from Labour. They have not so much switched as gone back to political slumber. It doesn't mean that they are lost to Labour either.

    OK there's a long way to go, but this does remind me of all those posts during the last parliament saying the Conservatives would be fine because their voters had gone to "don't know", and would switch back come the actual election...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,469
    edited January 19
    ...
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    £12.70 for a steak lunch? I'd say the lady can spot a bargain.
    Looking at the Farmer J website it's not a whole steak, more accurately few slices of flank, with rice and some sides.

    Better than a Big Mac, but why not eat in one of Parliaments multiple subsidised spots?
    Would you want to break bread with 411 Communist Members of Parliament?

    She could take her own sandwiches.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,570
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Betty Brown didn’t celebrate her 92nd birthday on Monday like a typical nonagenarian.

    Instead, the Glaswegian grandmother blew out the candles on her pink birthday cake in the green room of the BBC studios after appearing on Newsnight, and the next morning met the post office minister in Whitehall.

    “My week has been exciting, unbelievable, unexpected — and just wonderful,” says Brown, who in the past year has become one of the key voices in the sub-postmasters’ campaign for justice. Beaming, she warms her hands on a cup of tea in the kitchen of her son Alastair’s farmhouse in Co Durham while her two grandsons potter around.

    After decades feeling ashamed of having lost everything when she handed back the keys to her beloved post office in the northeast of England, Brown is now in the spotlight. As the oldest member of the Justice for Sub-postmasters Alliance, founded by Sir Alan Bates, she is demanding justice — and payouts — for wronged sub-postmasters.

    A year after the Post Office scandal came to prominence, thanks to the hit ITV series Mr Bates vs The Post Office, victims are still waiting for their claims to be settled. Sub-postmasters lost thousands of pounds, their jobs and in some cases their homes when the company’s Horizon computer system, rolled out in branches in the early 2000s, proved defective.

    Now Brown and hundreds of other sub-postmasters are trapped in an Kafka-esque nightmare. A team of government-funded independent psychologists, forensic accountants and lawyers have been deployed to assess individuals and come up with a “financial redress” figure for them to claim compensation. Yet application forms filled with legal jargon can be filled out only by lawyers. The Department for Business and Trade aims to provide an offer in 40 working days. “The victims are being re-victimised,” says Brown.

    At the same time claims are being contested by an “independent panel” in the Department for Business and Trade. Many sub-postmasters, after spending hours filling out forms, have been offered as little as 10 per cent of their total claim amounts. Brown has been offered 29 per cent. Bates, the leader of a group of sub-postmasters who 2019 won a High Court Group Litigation Order (GLO) case against the Post Office, was initially offered 16 per cent of his claim. His second offer was upped to about 30 per cent. He has still not accepted and has forwarded his claim to be reviewed again by Sir Ross Cranston.

    “It’s disgusting,” says Brown. “I had nothing to do with the amount that’s on that claim because it’s independently assessed,” she says.

    Many of the group have been left feeling as if they are being tested again — and are stuck in a deadlock, where the government is refusing to pay out. And Brown is not getting any younger.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/at-92-ive-been-re-victimised-by-the-post-office-scandal-zscp7kdzt

    These are exacly that matters we vote switchers voted Labour for, as the only possible government to clear up historic messes in a timely manner. Making the NHS perfect takes time, and we know that. But 6 months is too long for clearing up what are, compared with NHS or lack of national defence, small issues.

    Add this to the indifference about social care (the basic structure of reforms should by now be absolutely clear even if implementation had to wait a year or so) to the dismal list.
    Labour really are proving just to be as shit as the Tories. Surely an easy win for them and good PR just to make the process far simpler and get it over the line. Looks like the big winners will be the govt appointed professionals who will be trousering their cash as they go along. It’s in their interests for this to go on and on as well.
    Sure, they inherited the scheme from the Tories (indeed wasn't it Badenoch herself?) but they have had time to streamline it.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,821
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    I assume it’s an ironic take on Tory comments about young people and avocado on toast / Netflix / not being able to buy a house.
    I thought that at first but not from the journalists twitter feed where he just doubles down on it. Unless that is simply him tweeting for clicks.

    Is the Mirror really capable of that level of irony ? I’ve not read it for donkeys.
    £££, but I'd say it's a direct response - not ironic at all.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,081
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    £12.70 for a steak lunch? I'd say the lady can spot a bargain.
    Looking at the Farmer J website it's not a whole steak, more accurately few slices of flank, with rice and some sides.

    Better than a Big Mac, but why not eat in one of Parliaments multiple subsidised spots?
    Catering at Parliament is having a bad rep at the moment.

    As to £12.70 for a steak - that’s a not absurd price for a takeaway lunch in London now.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,570
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic, that 44% DK doesn't just work for Badenoch of course.

    The big move in polling is mostly to DK, particularly from Labour. They have not so much switched as gone back to political slumber. It doesn't mean that they are lost to Labour either.

    OK there's a long way to go, but this does remind me of all those posts during the last parliament saying the Conservatives would be fine because their voters had gone to "don't know", and would switch back come the actual election...
    Yes, and Truss and Sunak couldn't regain them. Indeed many did not vote in what was a historically low turnout election.

    I would put myself down as a DK at the moment, as I am not sure who I will vote for, not least because I am unsure where I will be living in 2029. If I'm on the IoW probably Green, if in Leics probably LD, if back in Leicester South probably Shockhat Adam, who is really impressing me as an independent.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,469

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    £12.70 for a steak lunch? I'd say the lady can spot a bargain.
    Looking at the Farmer J website it's not a whole steak, more accurately few slices of flank, with rice and some sides.

    Better than a Big Mac, but why not eat in one of Parliaments multiple subsidised spots?
    Catering at Parliament is having a bad rep at the moment.

    As to £12.70 for a steak - that’s a not absurd price for a takeaway lunch in London now.
    The story is bollocks. Kemi doesn't do lunch. "Lunch is for wimps".

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/12/12/lunch-breaks-are-for-wimps-says-kemi-badenoch/
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,282
    Reality check:

    https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bundestagswahl/wahlprogramme-gutverdiener-100.html

    Shows that the "tax relief" proposals of the AfD and FDP will mostly benefit the rich, other parties benefit the less rich
    Eg

    It (FDP program) is really lucrative for those with high or top incomes: a single-income couple with two children with an exemplary gross annual income of 180,000 euros would receive around 19,190 if the AfD program were implemented. It would be 11,990 for the FDP and 5,840 euros for the Union. With the SPD program, this family would have 2,200 euros more at their disposal. With the Greens, income would increase by 100 euros, with the BSW it would remain unchanged. Only the Left's program would reduce income by around 800 euros.

    So much for the AfD being against the elites!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,409
    Ed Davey likely would make a decent PM, certainly better than two others on that list.

    He comes from a party that hasn't produced prime ministers for a hundred years however.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,282
    kamski said:

    Reality check:

    https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bundestagswahl/wahlprogramme-gutverdiener-100.html

    Shows that the "tax relief" proposals of the AfD and FDP will mostly benefit the rich, other parties benefit the less rich
    Eg

    It (FDP program) is really lucrative for those with high or top incomes: a single-income couple with two children with an exemplary gross annual income of 180,000 euros would receive around 19,190 if the AfD program were implemented. It would be 11,990 for the FDP and 5,840 euros for the Union. With the SPD program, this family would have 2,200 euros more at their disposal. With the Greens, income would increase by 100 euros, with the BSW it would remain unchanged. Only the Left's program would reduce income by around 800 euros.

    So much for the AfD being against the elites!

    Also

    A single-income couple with two children and a gross income of 40,000 euros would be better off financially if the election programs of the Left Party (plus 6,150 euros/year), the BSW (plus 1,010 euros), the Greens (plus 870 euros) or the SPD (plus 860 euros) were implemented. With the Union's program, it would still be 300 euros more per year.If the election programs of the FDP or AfD were implemented, this family would have less money at its disposal, according to the ZEW. For the AfD, it would be 440 euros less per year, and for the FDP, 1,520 euros less.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,151

    Betty Brown didn’t celebrate her 92nd birthday on Monday like a typical nonagenarian.

    Instead, the Glaswegian grandmother blew out the candles on her pink birthday cake in the green room of the BBC studios after appearing on Newsnight, and the next morning met the post office minister in Whitehall.

    “My week has been exciting, unbelievable, unexpected — and just wonderful,” says Brown, who in the past year has become one of the key voices in the sub-postmasters’ campaign for justice. Beaming, she warms her hands on a cup of tea in the kitchen of her son Alastair’s farmhouse in Co Durham while her two grandsons potter around.

    After decades feeling ashamed of having lost everything when she handed back the keys to her beloved post office in the northeast of England, Brown is now in the spotlight. As the oldest member of the Justice for Sub-postmasters Alliance, founded by Sir Alan Bates, she is demanding justice — and payouts — for wronged sub-postmasters.

    A year after the Post Office scandal came to prominence, thanks to the hit ITV series Mr Bates vs The Post Office, victims are still waiting for their claims to be settled. Sub-postmasters lost thousands of pounds, their jobs and in some cases their homes when the company’s Horizon computer system, rolled out in branches in the early 2000s, proved defective.

    Now Brown and hundreds of other sub-postmasters are trapped in an Kafka-esque nightmare. A team of government-funded independent psychologists, forensic accountants and lawyers have been deployed to assess individuals and come up with a “financial redress” figure for them to claim compensation. Yet application forms filled with legal jargon can be filled out only by lawyers. The Department for Business and Trade aims to provide an offer in 40 working days. “The victims are being re-victimised,” says Brown.

    At the same time claims are being contested by an “independent panel” in the Department for Business and Trade. Many sub-postmasters, after spending hours filling out forms, have been offered as little as 10 per cent of their total claim amounts. Brown has been offered 29 per cent. Bates, the leader of a group of sub-postmasters who 2019 won a High Court Group Litigation Order (GLO) case against the Post Office, was initially offered 16 per cent of his claim. His second offer was upped to about 30 per cent. He has still not accepted and has forwarded his claim to be reviewed again by Sir Ross Cranston.

    “It’s disgusting,” says Brown. “I had nothing to do with the amount that’s on that claim because it’s independently assessed,” she says.

    Many of the group have been left feeling as if they are being tested again — and are stuck in a deadlock, where the government is refusing to pay out. And Brown is not getting any younger.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/at-92-ive-been-re-victimised-by-the-post-office-scandal-zscp7kdzt

    If Starmer paid the sub postmasters full compensation now, it would do more than any other act to restore his popularity.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    kamski said:

    Reality check:

    https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bundestagswahl/wahlprogramme-gutverdiener-100.html

    Shows that the "tax relief" proposals of the AfD and FDP will mostly benefit the rich, other parties benefit the less rich
    Eg

    It (FDP program) is really lucrative for those with high or top incomes: a single-income couple with two children with an exemplary gross annual income of 180,000 euros would receive around 19,190 if the AfD program were implemented. It would be 11,990 for the FDP and 5,840 euros for the Union. With the SPD program, this family would have 2,200 euros more at their disposal. With the Greens, income would increase by 100 euros, with the BSW it would remain unchanged. Only the Left's program would reduce income by around 800 euros.

    So much for the AfD being against the elites!

    Elites arent a homogenous bunch. They're against the people living off the state and for the Mittelstandler who earn their own money.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,151
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    NOTA gets 44%, is that a record and more worthy of the headline?

    It has been higher in the past, notably in the Johnson/Corbyn era.
    These polling figures are odd of course, but predictable. What remains odd is that in the political world there is a lack of a sense of the next tier of stellar leadership at different places on the greasy pole. Labour have one or two prominent figures but no more than that. The Tories have none at all, not even a few vague names. The LDs have none. And - this could be important - Reform have none. The SNP have Kate Forbes. Weird; and a bit troubling.
    Welcome to the age of the SpAd.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,081
    edited January 19

    Betty Brown didn’t celebrate her 92nd birthday on Monday like a typical nonagenarian.

    Instead, the Glaswegian grandmother blew out the candles on her pink birthday cake in the green room of the BBC studios after appearing on Newsnight, and the next morning met the post office minister in Whitehall.

    “My week has been exciting, unbelievable, unexpected — and just wonderful,” says Brown, who in the past year has become one of the key voices in the sub-postmasters’ campaign for justice. Beaming, she warms her hands on a cup of tea in the kitchen of her son Alastair’s farmhouse in Co Durham while her two grandsons potter around.

    After decades feeling ashamed of having lost everything when she handed back the keys to her beloved post office in the northeast of England, Brown is now in the spotlight. As the oldest member of the Justice for Sub-postmasters Alliance, founded by Sir Alan Bates, she is demanding justice — and payouts — for wronged sub-postmasters.

    A year after the Post Office scandal came to prominence, thanks to the hit ITV series Mr Bates vs The Post Office, victims are still waiting for their claims to be settled. Sub-postmasters lost thousands of pounds, their jobs and in some cases their homes when the company’s Horizon computer system, rolled out in branches in the early 2000s, proved defective.

    Now Brown and hundreds of other sub-postmasters are trapped in an Kafka-esque nightmare. A team of government-funded independent psychologists, forensic accountants and lawyers have been deployed to assess individuals and come up with a “financial redress” figure for them to claim compensation. Yet application forms filled with legal jargon can be filled out only by lawyers. The Department for Business and Trade aims to provide an offer in 40 working days. “The victims are being re-victimised,” says Brown.

    At the same time claims are being contested by an “independent panel” in the Department for Business and Trade. Many sub-postmasters, after spending hours filling out forms, have been offered as little as 10 per cent of their total claim amounts. Brown has been offered 29 per cent. Bates, the leader of a group of sub-postmasters who 2019 won a High Court Group Litigation Order (GLO) case against the Post Office, was initially offered 16 per cent of his claim. His second offer was upped to about 30 per cent. He has still not accepted and has forwarded his claim to be reviewed again by Sir Ross Cranston.

    “It’s disgusting,” says Brown. “I had nothing to do with the amount that’s on that claim because it’s independently assessed,” she says.

    Many of the group have been left feeling as if they are being tested again — and are stuck in a deadlock, where the government is refusing to pay out. And Brown is not getting any younger.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/at-92-ive-been-re-victimised-by-the-post-office-scandal-zscp7kdzt

    If Starmer paid the sub postmasters full compensation now, it would do more than any other act to restore his popularity.
    He probably wants to.

    Remember the popularity in parliament, when they passed primary legislation to declare the SPOs not guilty? Who opposed the motion?

    Notably this was a massive slap in the face for the judicial (civil service/courts) system. Strangely, those who claim that criticising the actions of the courts is anarchy, were silent as the courts were overturned.

    I found it interesting and ominous.

    Anyway, the above account of the invention of a process to stall/reduce the payouts is utterly… familiar and expected.

    Read the accounts of the survivors if Aberfan.

    Same shit, different arseholes.

    Process State making everything into a Big Process.

    Starmer has already done his wet fish slap against this sort of thing. But ran away at the first sign of resistance.

    I’ll bet they are sizing up a building to house the “SPO Claims Administration” quango. Complete with an executive office decorated with hand made walnut (illegally logged) for the CEO who will be on 6 figures.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,838

    But the people who think Farage would make the best PM are insane.

    Simpletons. People who think the world is simple and believe in (their words not mine) common sense solutions. Think the RN’s frigate complement (all 8 of them) should be deployed in the Straits of Dover. What for is anyone’s guess.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
    You two don't lunch together daily. The implication in her case is £12.70 a day - implying well upward of £2K a year.

    And it's not so long ago that Gen Xers and millennials' lack of housing was blamed by Tories on a liking for avocados.

    Edit: I have no particuiar opinion on the matter myself. But one can see how it goes down (so to speak) in a society where a Sainsbury or Boots Meal Deal is luxury for many.
    Its a nonsense attack line. You get this sort of thing sometimes where even though there are plenty of good attack lines to choose from some people still completely miss the mark.

    Its not as bad as making up bad things about politician X when they have done loads of bad things for real, but its not that far off.

    Its more than someone would spend getting Greggs for lunch daily, but not so much more its shocking profligacy for an average joe. And left to implication shows it as not very effective, the way it was written the author apparently thought it was bad justvin isolation.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,282

    kamski said:

    Reality check:

    https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bundestagswahl/wahlprogramme-gutverdiener-100.html

    Shows that the "tax relief" proposals of the AfD and FDP will mostly benefit the rich, other parties benefit the less rich
    Eg

    It (FDP program) is really lucrative for those with high or top incomes: a single-income couple with two children with an exemplary gross annual income of 180,000 euros would receive around 19,190 if the AfD program were implemented. It would be 11,990 for the FDP and 5,840 euros for the Union. With the SPD program, this family would have 2,200 euros more at their disposal. With the Greens, income would increase by 100 euros, with the BSW it would remain unchanged. Only the Left's program would reduce income by around 800 euros.

    So much for the AfD being against the elites!

    Elites arent a homogenous bunch. They're against the people living off the state and for the Mittelstandler who earn their own money.
    Whatevs
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Reality check:

    https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bundestagswahl/wahlprogramme-gutverdiener-100.html

    Shows that the "tax relief" proposals of the AfD and FDP will mostly benefit the rich, other parties benefit the less rich
    Eg

    It (FDP program) is really lucrative for those with high or top incomes: a single-income couple with two children with an exemplary gross annual income of 180,000 euros would receive around 19,190 if the AfD program were implemented. It would be 11,990 for the FDP and 5,840 euros for the Union. With the SPD program, this family would have 2,200 euros more at their disposal. With the Greens, income would increase by 100 euros, with the BSW it would remain unchanged. Only the Left's program would reduce income by around 800 euros.

    So much for the AfD being against the elites!

    Also

    A single-income couple with two children and a gross income of 40,000 euros would be better off financially if the election programs of the Left Party (plus 6,150 euros/year), the BSW (plus 1,010 euros), the Greens (plus 870 euros) or the SPD (plus 860 euros) were implemented. With the Union's program, it would still be 300 euros more per year.If the election programs of the FDP or AfD were implemented, this family would have less money at its disposal, according to the ZEW. For the AfD, it would be 440 euros less per year, and for the FDP, 1,520 euros less.
    Anti elitists are often just in favour of different elites, or even the same ones just with rowdier rhetoric.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,409
    The United States actually more despotic than China now.


  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,369
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
    How much is roast baby nowadays?
    Drowned baby for pudding should be relatively cheap.

    https://youtu.be/tksGdDNk6zI?si=C34Q8a-jqxXzFUY_
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,570

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    NOTA gets 44%, is that a record and more worthy of the headline?

    It has been higher in the past, notably in the Johnson/Corbyn era.
    These polling figures are odd of course, but predictable. What remains odd is that in the political world there is a lack of a sense of the next tier of stellar leadership at different places on the greasy pole. Labour have one or two prominent figures but no more than that. The Tories have none at all, not even a few vague names. The LDs have none. And - this could be important - Reform have none. The SNP have Kate Forbes. Weird; and a bit troubling.
    Welcome to the age of the SpAd.
    Have any of our party leaders ever worked as a Spad?

    Indeed maybe that's the problem, insufficient study of policy development.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,856

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    A Labour leader severing past four Tory leaders and into his fifth would equal Blair's record. And it took Blair over 11 years to reach that point.

    One thing perhaps we should all remember about Starmer is his remarkable capacity for confounding expectations. It's less than five years since Hartlepool when we were all talking about the imminent Labour leadership election and who would replace him.

    Buddy can grind. No doubt.

    I think he's been written off every week on here since he became Labour leader. Kemi has the same chance of leading the tories into the next GE as do you or I. Outside chance of him getting #6 if the tories pick somebody scandal prone with an ossuary for a closet.


    'Buddy can grind' - cringe. This defender of Sir Lard-bucket schtick from you is unutterably grim.

    SKS has somehow even made you turn shit.
    I've always liked him because he represented the McLibel Two. I wouldn't vote for the c-nt in a million years though.

    And he can grind.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    ydoethur said:

    A Labour leader severing past four Tory leaders and into his fifth would equal Blair's record. And it took Blair over 11 years to reach that point.

    One thing perhaps we should all remember about Starmer is his remarkable capacity for confounding expectations. It's less than five years since Hartlepool when we were all talking about the imminent Labour leadership election and who would replace him.

    He was the beneficiary of the notion that "Governments lose elections rather than Oppositions win them".

    Hopefully once the broadcast and print media are over their fixation with trying to make Farage PM, Kemi will get a look in. Remember Starmer was a slow starter and still became PM.

    If Badenoch fails, the alternative spectre of Jenrick looms large. On that thought, perhaps Farage isn't so bad after all.
    Jenrick seems to be a chameleon, not really believing much of anything, so im a little surprised he would be seen as the great hope of the right of the party, or feared by others as such.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,220
    ydoethur said:

    I wonder if the Russian Orthodox Church have thought through their latest announcement that the war in Ukraine began because of masturbation?

    I mean, calling Putin a tosser isn't wrong but isn't a great health or career move.

    The Russian Church is anti-masturbation and pro-aggression.

    Imagine how much better that part of the world would be if it were pro-masturbation and anti-aggression.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,369
    FF43 said:

    Ed Davey likely would make a decent PM, certainly better than two others on that list.

    He comes from a party that hasn't produced prime ministers for a hundred years however.

    Well, they had a hand in Truss.
    So to speak.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,081
    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder if the Russian Orthodox Church have thought through their latest announcement that the war in Ukraine began because of masturbation?

    I mean, calling Putin a tosser isn't wrong but isn't a great health or career move.

    The Russian Church is anti-masturbation and pro-aggression.

    Imagine how much better that part of the world would be if it were pro-masturbation and anti-aggression.
    The behaviour of the Russian Army does give off a strong Andrew Tate vibe.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    NOTA gets 44%, is that a record and more worthy of the headline?

    It has been higher in the past, notably in the Johnson/Corbyn era.
    These polling figures are odd of course, but predictable. What remains odd is that in the political world there is a lack of a sense of the next tier of stellar leadership at different places on the greasy pole. Labour have one or two prominent figures but no more than that. The Tories have none at all, not even a few vague names. The LDs have none. And - this could be important - Reform have none. The SNP have Kate Forbes. Weird; and a bit troubling.
    Welcome to the age of the SpAd.
    Have any of our party leaders ever worked as a Spad?

    Indeed maybe that's the problem, insufficient study of policy development.

    Spadification is more of a general name for the blandification and narrowing of the political class now, rather than a direct descriptor as its a holdover from around the Cameron/Ed M era

    Neither current leader may fit that particular mould, but theres a lot fewer 'normal' MPs than existed historically nonetheless.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,282
    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Reality check:

    https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bundestagswahl/wahlprogramme-gutverdiener-100.html

    Shows that the "tax relief" proposals of the AfD and FDP will mostly benefit the rich, other parties benefit the less rich
    Eg

    It (FDP program) is really lucrative for those with high or top incomes: a single-income couple with two children with an exemplary gross annual income of 180,000 euros would receive around 19,190 if the AfD program were implemented. It would be 11,990 for the FDP and 5,840 euros for the Union. With the SPD program, this family would have 2,200 euros more at their disposal. With the Greens, income would increase by 100 euros, with the BSW it would remain unchanged. Only the Left's program would reduce income by around 800 euros.

    So much for the AfD being against the elites!

    Also

    A single-income couple with two children and a gross income of 40,000 euros would be better off financially if the election programs of the Left Party (plus 6,150 euros/year), the BSW (plus 1,010 euros), the Greens (plus 870 euros) or the SPD (plus 860 euros) were implemented. With the Union's program, it would still be 300 euros more per year.If the election programs of the FDP or AfD were implemented, this family would have less money at its disposal, according to the ZEW. For the AfD, it would be 440 euros less per year, and for the FDP, 1,520 euros less.
    Anti elitists are often just in favour of different elites, or even the same ones just with rowdier rhetoric.
    It's not a tax cut for the richest rowdies. It's a tax cut for the richest. The BSW and die Linke also claim to be anti-elite parties, but without the "taking from the poor to give to the rich" reality of the AfD, who are unsurprisingly full of shit. As well as bring pro-Putin Nazi apologists.

    But for some people on here the AfD are the good guys.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,683
    Farage has more name recognition than Badenoch and is more charismatic so it is not that surprising more voters think he would be the best PM. However Kemi also has lower negatives than Farage and the largest percentage of voters don't know who they would prefer to be PM so they are voters she can squeeze. Starmer will be concerned by the fact Farage beats him by 1% as best PM too.

    The fact half of Tory and Reform voters reject a merger between the two so there are still differences between the right of centre parties. Some 2024 Tories would go LD rather than vote Reform and some Reform voters will have come from Labour not the Tories and also want to be a distinctive populist right party
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,570
    FF43 said:

    The United States actually more despotic than China now.


    Yes, funny how data harvesting by big US companies around the world is fine and dandy, but anyone else doing the same is a national security issue.

    Trump will bring resore TikTok. He wants another servile Social Media alogarithm.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,576
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Reality check:

    https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bundestagswahl/wahlprogramme-gutverdiener-100.html

    Shows that the "tax relief" proposals of the AfD and FDP will mostly benefit the rich, other parties benefit the less rich
    Eg

    It (FDP program) is really lucrative for those with high or top incomes: a single-income couple with two children with an exemplary gross annual income of 180,000 euros would receive around 19,190 if the AfD program were implemented. It would be 11,990 for the FDP and 5,840 euros for the Union. With the SPD program, this family would have 2,200 euros more at their disposal. With the Greens, income would increase by 100 euros, with the BSW it would remain unchanged. Only the Left's program would reduce income by around 800 euros.

    So much for the AfD being against the elites!

    Also

    A single-income couple with two children and a gross income of 40,000 euros would be better off financially if the election programs of the Left Party (plus 6,150 euros/year), the BSW (plus 1,010 euros), the Greens (plus 870 euros) or the SPD (plus 860 euros) were implemented. With the Union's program, it would still be 300 euros more per year.If the election programs of the FDP or AfD were implemented, this family would have less money at its disposal, according to the ZEW. For the AfD, it would be 440 euros less per year, and for the FDP, 1,520 euros less.
    The FDP are an interesting bunch. Members of the ALDE bloc but very different from any others in that group.

    The only European party with what I’d describe as full on Thatcherite “neoliberal” policies. Forget orange book, more like a Tory party run by 1990s vintage John Redwood and Peter Lilley but with more socially liberal views. It’s a brave position to be in these days.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,821
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
    You two don't lunch together daily. The implication in her case is £12.70 a day - implying well upward of £2K a year.

    And it's not so long ago that Gen Xers and millennials' lack of housing was blamed by Tories on a liking for avocados.

    Edit: I have no particuiar opinion on the matter myself. But one can see how it goes down (so to speak) in a society where a Sainsbury or Boots Meal Deal is luxury for many.
    Its a nonsense attack line. You get this sort of thing sometimes where even though there are plenty of good attack lines to choose from some people still completely miss the mark.

    Its not as bad as making up bad things about politician X when they have done loads of bad things for real, but its not that far off.

    Its more than someone would spend getting Greggs for lunch daily, but not so much more its shocking profligacy for an average joe. And left to implication shows it as not very effective, the way it was written the author apparently thought it was bad justvin isolation.
    Hmm. But 'not so much more that it's shocking prfligacy for the average' person? We obvs live in different circles!
  • By the way Elon Musk is a twat who ruins everything he touches.

    It is now close to impossible to embed Tweets in thread headers.

    In the past all you had to do was post a link to the Tweet, now you have to arse around for five mins with embed codes.

    As of yesterday I am now dark on Twitter. As entertaining as watching the cultural skip fire was, I have better things to do with my time. Plus as I listened to Jess Phillips on the Electoral Disfunction podcast she said something that opened my eyes.

    The furore about her blew up as Musk started tweeting. She hadn't a clue because she doesn't have Twitter any more - she had to be told. There's the winning strategy - don't look up...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,576
    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder if the Russian Orthodox Church have thought through their latest announcement that the war in Ukraine began because of masturbation?

    I mean, calling Putin a tosser isn't wrong but isn't a great health or career move.

    The Russian Church is anti-masturbation and pro-aggression.

    Imagine how much better that part of the world would be if it were pro-masturbation and anti-aggression.
    Be more wanky and less tankie.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,683
    FF43 said:

    Ed Davey likely would make a decent PM, certainly better than two others on that list.

    He comes from a party that hasn't produced prime ministers for a hundred years however.

    It had a Deputy PM less than 10 years ago
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,570
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    NOTA gets 44%, is that a record and more worthy of the headline?

    It has been higher in the past, notably in the Johnson/Corbyn era.
    These polling figures are odd of course, but predictable. What remains odd is that in the political world there is a lack of a sense of the next tier of stellar leadership at different places on the greasy pole. Labour have one or two prominent figures but no more than that. The Tories have none at all, not even a few vague names. The LDs have none. And - this could be important - Reform have none. The SNP have Kate Forbes. Weird; and a bit troubling.
    Welcome to the age of the SpAd.
    Have any of our party leaders ever worked as a Spad?

    Indeed maybe that's the problem, insufficient study of policy development.

    Spadification is more of a general name for the blandification and narrowing of the political class now, rather than a direct descriptor as its a holdover from around the Cameron/Ed M era

    Neither current leader may fit that particular mould, but theres a lot fewer 'normal' MPs than existed historically nonetheless.
    I'm not sure that's really true.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Betty Brown didn’t celebrate her 92nd birthday on Monday like a typical nonagenarian.

    Instead, the Glaswegian grandmother blew out the candles on her pink birthday cake in the green room of the BBC studios after appearing on Newsnight, and the next morning met the post office minister in Whitehall.

    “My week has been exciting, unbelievable, unexpected — and just wonderful,” says Brown, who in the past year has become one of the key voices in the sub-postmasters’ campaign for justice. Beaming, she warms her hands on a cup of tea in the kitchen of her son Alastair’s farmhouse in Co Durham while her two grandsons potter around.

    After decades feeling ashamed of having lost everything when she handed back the keys to her beloved post office in the northeast of England, Brown is now in the spotlight. As the oldest member of the Justice for Sub-postmasters Alliance, founded by Sir Alan Bates, she is demanding justice — and payouts — for wronged sub-postmasters.

    A year after the Post Office scandal came to prominence, thanks to the hit ITV series Mr Bates vs The Post Office, victims are still waiting for their claims to be settled. Sub-postmasters lost thousands of pounds, their jobs and in some cases their homes when the company’s Horizon computer system, rolled out in branches in the early 2000s, proved defective.

    Now Brown and hundreds of other sub-postmasters are trapped in an Kafka-esque nightmare. A team of government-funded independent psychologists, forensic accountants and lawyers have been deployed to assess individuals and come up with a “financial redress” figure for them to claim compensation. Yet application forms filled with legal jargon can be filled out only by lawyers. The Department for Business and Trade aims to provide an offer in 40 working days. “The victims are being re-victimised,” says Brown.

    At the same time claims are being contested by an “independent panel” in the Department for Business and Trade. Many sub-postmasters, after spending hours filling out forms, have been offered as little as 10 per cent of their total claim amounts. Brown has been offered 29 per cent. Bates, the leader of a group of sub-postmasters who 2019 won a High Court Group Litigation Order (GLO) case against the Post Office, was initially offered 16 per cent of his claim. His second offer was upped to about 30 per cent. He has still not accepted and has forwarded his claim to be reviewed again by Sir Ross Cranston.

    “It’s disgusting,” says Brown. “I had nothing to do with the amount that’s on that claim because it’s independently assessed,” she says.

    Many of the group have been left feeling as if they are being tested again — and are stuck in a deadlock, where the government is refusing to pay out. And Brown is not getting any younger.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/at-92-ive-been-re-victimised-by-the-post-office-scandal-zscp7kdzt

    If Starmer paid the sub postmasters full compensation now, it would do more than any other act to restore his popularity.
    The WASPI crowd would go bananas if money was found for that (even considering their call for 'compensation' is a different level entirely).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,081
    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder if the Russian Orthodox Church have thought through their latest announcement that the war in Ukraine began because of masturbation?

    I mean, calling Putin a tosser isn't wrong but isn't a great health or career move.

    The Russian Church is anti-masturbation and pro-aggression.

    Imagine how much better that part of the world would be if it were pro-masturbation and anti-aggression.
    Be more wanky and less tankie.
    Shorten it

    “More wank, less tank”
  • novanova Posts: 710

    Betty Brown didn’t celebrate her 92nd birthday on Monday like a typical nonagenarian.

    Instead, the Glaswegian grandmother blew out the candles on her pink birthday cake in the green room of the BBC studios after appearing on Newsnight, and the next morning met the post office minister in Whitehall.

    “My week has been exciting, unbelievable, unexpected — and just wonderful,” says Brown, who in the past year has become one of the key voices in the sub-postmasters’ campaign for justice. Beaming, she warms her hands on a cup of tea in the kitchen of her son Alastair’s farmhouse in Co Durham while her two grandsons potter around.

    After decades feeling ashamed of having lost everything when she handed back the keys to her beloved post office in the northeast of England, Brown is now in the spotlight. As the oldest member of the Justice for Sub-postmasters Alliance, founded by Sir Alan Bates, she is demanding justice — and payouts — for wronged sub-postmasters.

    A year after the Post Office scandal came to prominence, thanks to the hit ITV series Mr Bates vs The Post Office, victims are still waiting for their claims to be settled. Sub-postmasters lost thousands of pounds, their jobs and in some cases their homes when the company’s Horizon computer system, rolled out in branches in the early 2000s, proved defective.

    Now Brown and hundreds of other sub-postmasters are trapped in an Kafka-esque nightmare. A team of government-funded independent psychologists, forensic accountants and lawyers have been deployed to assess individuals and come up with a “financial redress” figure for them to claim compensation. Yet application forms filled with legal jargon can be filled out only by lawyers. The Department for Business and Trade aims to provide an offer in 40 working days. “The victims are being re-victimised,” says Brown.

    At the same time claims are being contested by an “independent panel” in the Department for Business and Trade. Many sub-postmasters, after spending hours filling out forms, have been offered as little as 10 per cent of their total claim amounts. Brown has been offered 29 per cent. Bates, the leader of a group of sub-postmasters who 2019 won a High Court Group Litigation Order (GLO) case against the Post Office, was initially offered 16 per cent of his claim. His second offer was upped to about 30 per cent. He has still not accepted and has forwarded his claim to be reviewed again by Sir Ross Cranston.

    “It’s disgusting,” says Brown. “I had nothing to do with the amount that’s on that claim because it’s independently assessed,” she says.

    Many of the group have been left feeling as if they are being tested again — and are stuck in a deadlock, where the government is refusing to pay out. And Brown is not getting any younger.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/at-92-ive-been-re-victimised-by-the-post-office-scandal-zscp7kdzt

    If Starmer paid the sub postmasters full compensation now, it would do more than any other act to restore his popularity.
    I doubt it. I would expect pics of a pensioner, or WASPI woman, or farmer and headlines along the lines of "what about us?" The subpostmasters would likely join junior doctors as a target.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,668
    kle4 said:

    Betty Brown didn’t celebrate her 92nd birthday on Monday like a typical nonagenarian.

    Instead, the Glaswegian grandmother blew out the candles on her pink birthday cake in the green room of the BBC studios after appearing on Newsnight, and the next morning met the post office minister in Whitehall.

    “My week has been exciting, unbelievable, unexpected — and just wonderful,” says Brown, who in the past year has become one of the key voices in the sub-postmasters’ campaign for justice. Beaming, she warms her hands on a cup of tea in the kitchen of her son Alastair’s farmhouse in Co Durham while her two grandsons potter around.

    After decades feeling ashamed of having lost everything when she handed back the keys to her beloved post office in the northeast of England, Brown is now in the spotlight. As the oldest member of the Justice for Sub-postmasters Alliance, founded by Sir Alan Bates, she is demanding justice — and payouts — for wronged sub-postmasters.

    A year after the Post Office scandal came to prominence, thanks to the hit ITV series Mr Bates vs The Post Office, victims are still waiting for their claims to be settled. Sub-postmasters lost thousands of pounds, their jobs and in some cases their homes when the company’s Horizon computer system, rolled out in branches in the early 2000s, proved defective.

    Now Brown and hundreds of other sub-postmasters are trapped in an Kafka-esque nightmare. A team of government-funded independent psychologists, forensic accountants and lawyers have been deployed to assess individuals and come up with a “financial redress” figure for them to claim compensation. Yet application forms filled with legal jargon can be filled out only by lawyers. The Department for Business and Trade aims to provide an offer in 40 working days. “The victims are being re-victimised,” says Brown.

    At the same time claims are being contested by an “independent panel” in the Department for Business and Trade. Many sub-postmasters, after spending hours filling out forms, have been offered as little as 10 per cent of their total claim amounts. Brown has been offered 29 per cent. Bates, the leader of a group of sub-postmasters who 2019 won a High Court Group Litigation Order (GLO) case against the Post Office, was initially offered 16 per cent of his claim. His second offer was upped to about 30 per cent. He has still not accepted and has forwarded his claim to be reviewed again by Sir Ross Cranston.

    “It’s disgusting,” says Brown. “I had nothing to do with the amount that’s on that claim because it’s independently assessed,” she says.

    Many of the group have been left feeling as if they are being tested again — and are stuck in a deadlock, where the government is refusing to pay out. And Brown is not getting any younger.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/at-92-ive-been-re-victimised-by-the-post-office-scandal-zscp7kdzt

    If Starmer paid the sub postmasters full compensation now, it would do more than any other act to restore his popularity.
    The WASPI crowd would go bananas if money was found for that (even considering their call for 'compensation' is a different level entirely).
    Bonus
  • Dura_Ace said:

    I am back from visiting the in-laws in India. Is the SMO over yet?

    The tories have a lot of problems but their biggest problem, Olukemi, is at least one they can do something about. At this point they might as well let her take the hit for the locals before they fuck her off. She'll be the fifth tory leader that SKS has seen off.

    She is a symptom of the problem, not the problem.

    The Tories have lost touch with what they stand for. Instead of being the party of small business they became the party of fuck business. Instead of being the party of the Union they became the party of partitioning off NI. Instead of being the party of fiscal prudence and low taxes they vastly increased both the national debt and taxes, and managed to leave us broke for good measure.

    For a long time, Tory leaders would look fondly back onto Thatcher and say "I am she". Like corrupted Caesars in Rome, they say it but have long forgotten what it is they are supposed to be replicating. Take Kemi away and replace her, and they'll get another idiot. We know that actual Tories still exist, but the party has long since stopped voting for them.

    This is why they are being replaced by Reform. Hate him or despise him, Farage and his band of fukers have honed the message to cut through not just to the formerly Tory faithful but to the young and dispossessed as well. They *sound* like radical Tories. The actual Tories can't out radical them, and we can all see that they don't actually believe it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    NOTA gets 44%, is that a record and more worthy of the headline?

    It has been higher in the past, notably in the Johnson/Corbyn era.
    These polling figures are odd of course, but predictable. What remains odd is that in the political world there is a lack of a sense of the next tier of stellar leadership at different places on the greasy pole. Labour have one or two prominent figures but no more than that. The Tories have none at all, not even a few vague names. The LDs have none. And - this could be important - Reform have none. The SNP have Kate Forbes. Weird; and a bit troubling.
    Welcome to the age of the SpAd.
    Have any of our party leaders ever worked as a Spad?

    Indeed maybe that's the problem, insufficient study of policy development.

    Spadification is more of a general name for the blandification and narrowing of the political class now, rather than a direct descriptor as its a holdover from around the Cameron/Ed M era

    Neither current leader may fit that particular mould, but theres a lot fewer 'normal' MPs than existed historically nonetheless.
    I'm not sure that's really true.
    Im on my phone so its hard to check, but im sure theres been a big drop in the number of MPs with manual labour backgrounds for example. And i doubt they are being replaced by people with mundane white collar jobs.

    That may not in itself be a bad thing, there's always been many lawyers and doctors as people respect those and think they make good MPs (and i guess they find it easier to find the time to do the job for some reason) but id be very surpised if you can find that more average professions havecnot declined.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,081
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of Badenoch this is a bizarre attack on her. Spending £12.70 on a steak for lunch. So what.

    https://x.com/mikeysmith/status/1880585881658249248?s=61

    Wait until they see what JohnO and myself spend on our PB Tory lunches.
    You two don't lunch together daily. The implication in her case is £12.70 a day - implying well upward of £2K a year.

    And it's not so long ago that Gen Xers and millennials' lack of housing was blamed by Tories on a liking for avocados.

    Edit: I have no particuiar opinion on the matter myself. But one can see how it goes down (so to speak) in a society where a Sainsbury or Boots Meal Deal is luxury for many.
    Its a nonsense attack line. You get this sort of thing sometimes where even though there are plenty of good attack lines to choose from some people still completely miss the mark.

    Its not as bad as making up bad things about politician X when they have done loads of bad things for real, but its not that far off.

    Its more than someone would spend getting Greggs for lunch daily, but not so much more its shocking profligacy for an average joe. And left to implication shows it as not very effective, the way it was written the author apparently thought it was bad justvin isolation.
    Hmm. But 'not so much more that it's shocking prfligacy for the average' person? We obvs live in different circles!
    I’m reminded of a comedy under Brown. The head of the military (CDS) had made some comments about underfunding the army.

    So a backbencher was primed to get him on expenses. The slight problem was that the CDS was the kind of chap who took the heads of other armies to Aske (Pizza and Pasta chain on the level of Pizza Express).

    So he was literally sharing a bottle of the £9.99 Shiraz with the head of the French Army…

    Further, said backbench MP turned out to have a taste for rather finer food. On expenses.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 722
    FF43 said:

    The United States actually more despotic than China now.


    Really? Have you tried to Google "Tiananmen Square" from China recently?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,369
    nova said:

    Betty Brown didn’t celebrate her 92nd birthday on Monday like a typical nonagenarian.

    Instead, the Glaswegian grandmother blew out the candles on her pink birthday cake in the green room of the BBC studios after appearing on Newsnight, and the next morning met the post office minister in Whitehall.

    “My week has been exciting, unbelievable, unexpected — and just wonderful,” says Brown, who in the past year has become one of the key voices in the sub-postmasters’ campaign for justice. Beaming, she warms her hands on a cup of tea in the kitchen of her son Alastair’s farmhouse in Co Durham while her two grandsons potter around.

    After decades feeling ashamed of having lost everything when she handed back the keys to her beloved post office in the northeast of England, Brown is now in the spotlight. As the oldest member of the Justice for Sub-postmasters Alliance, founded by Sir Alan Bates, she is demanding justice — and payouts — for wronged sub-postmasters.

    A year after the Post Office scandal came to prominence, thanks to the hit ITV series Mr Bates vs The Post Office, victims are still waiting for their claims to be settled. Sub-postmasters lost thousands of pounds, their jobs and in some cases their homes when the company’s Horizon computer system, rolled out in branches in the early 2000s, proved defective.

    Now Brown and hundreds of other sub-postmasters are trapped in an Kafka-esque nightmare. A team of government-funded independent psychologists, forensic accountants and lawyers have been deployed to assess individuals and come up with a “financial redress” figure for them to claim compensation. Yet application forms filled with legal jargon can be filled out only by lawyers. The Department for Business and Trade aims to provide an offer in 40 working days. “The victims are being re-victimised,” says Brown.

    At the same time claims are being contested by an “independent panel” in the Department for Business and Trade. Many sub-postmasters, after spending hours filling out forms, have been offered as little as 10 per cent of their total claim amounts. Brown has been offered 29 per cent. Bates, the leader of a group of sub-postmasters who 2019 won a High Court Group Litigation Order (GLO) case against the Post Office, was initially offered 16 per cent of his claim. His second offer was upped to about 30 per cent. He has still not accepted and has forwarded his claim to be reviewed again by Sir Ross Cranston.

    “It’s disgusting,” says Brown. “I had nothing to do with the amount that’s on that claim because it’s independently assessed,” she says.

    Many of the group have been left feeling as if they are being tested again — and are stuck in a deadlock, where the government is refusing to pay out. And Brown is not getting any younger.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/at-92-ive-been-re-victimised-by-the-post-office-scandal-zscp7kdzt

    If Starmer paid the sub postmasters full compensation now, it would do more than any other act to restore his popularity.
    I doubt it. I would expect pics of a pensioner, or WASPI woman, or farmer and headlines along the lines of "what about us?" The subpostmasters would likely join junior doctors as a target.
    I think the incredible (sic) ability of the public to move on from events would suggest not. The postmasters were so last year.

    The possibility of Starmer taking matters into his own hands with a big dramatic gesture also seems thin.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,282
    TimS said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Reality check:

    https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bundestagswahl/wahlprogramme-gutverdiener-100.html

    Shows that the "tax relief" proposals of the AfD and FDP will mostly benefit the rich, other parties benefit the less rich
    Eg

    It (FDP program) is really lucrative for those with high or top incomes: a single-income couple with two children with an exemplary gross annual income of 180,000 euros would receive around 19,190 if the AfD program were implemented. It would be 11,990 for the FDP and 5,840 euros for the Union. With the SPD program, this family would have 2,200 euros more at their disposal. With the Greens, income would increase by 100 euros, with the BSW it would remain unchanged. Only the Left's program would reduce income by around 800 euros.

    So much for the AfD being against the elites!

    Also

    A single-income couple with two children and a gross income of 40,000 euros would be better off financially if the election programs of the Left Party (plus 6,150 euros/year), the BSW (plus 1,010 euros), the Greens (plus 870 euros) or the SPD (plus 860 euros) were implemented. With the Union's program, it would still be 300 euros more per year.If the election programs of the FDP or AfD were implemented, this family would have less money at its disposal, according to the ZEW. For the AfD, it would be 440 euros less per year, and for the FDP, 1,520 euros less.
    The FDP are an interesting bunch. Members of the ALDE bloc but very different from any others in that group.

    The only European party with what I’d describe as full on Thatcherite “neoliberal” policies. Forget orange book, more like a Tory party run by 1990s vintage John liberal views. It’s a brave position to be in these days.
    They're basically lobbyists for rich people who don't want to pay tax.

    Plus wreckers in the current government by vetoing badly needed increased borrowing.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,103
    Canadian Federal Court to allow challenge on Trudeau's prorogation.

    https://x.com/Gray_Mackenzie/status/1880764999066661053

    Wonder if they will consider our recent decision on the matter - sometimes courts consider cases in other similar legal jurisdictions...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited January 19

    By the way Elon Musk is a twat who ruins everything he touches.

    It is now close to impossible to embed Tweets in thread headers.

    In the past all you had to do was post a link to the Tweet, now you have to arse around for five mins with embed codes.

    As of yesterday I am now dark on Twitter. As entertaining as watching the cultural skip fire was, I have better things to do with my time. Plus as I listened to Jess Phillips on the Electoral Disfunction podcast she said something that opened my eyes.

    The furore about her blew up as Musk started tweeting. She hadn't a clue because she doesn't have Twitter any more - she had to be told. There's the winning strategy - don't look up...
    I don't see the benefit for a politician. It increases the odds youll say something stupid and get caught, no one engages with an MP positively that way, and you'll get told if theres stuff on twitter you need to know.

    Politicians and billionaires for that matter just create opportunity to look as foolish as the rest if us if they spend time on social media.

    Especially if they like a drink or Ketamin.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,760
    FF43 said:

    Ed Davey likely would make a decent PM, certainly better than two others on that list.

    He comes from a party that hasn't produced prime ministers for a hundred years however.

    Ed Davey reminds me of Rory Kinnear who did make a decent PM.


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