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Will the Ayrshire hotelier follow Musk’s lead in renouncing Farage? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,232
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    The abuse took place over a very long period of time, around 4 decades so on an annual basis the numbers are quite believable when you consider it was a national scandal, not just a few cities in the North.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,526
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    It's not like you to link to an explicitly racist X account. Have a look.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,017
    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc

    I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him

    However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation

    Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?

    Not a restaurant, but my grandmother, a fine Hebridean woman and a good cook, was a bit hard nosed about food storage (she’d laughingly describe her own mother pinging maggots off a piece of mutton before serving it). Gran tended to store cooked foods in the larder rather than the fridge, and more than once I doggedly munched on food I knew was on the edge of safety. The worst occasion was cooked chicken that I knew was off but persisted with. Foolishly went drinking in Edinburgh afterwards to get the taste away, bagged off with someone, post coital puke in their lav, diarrhoea on the first train back to Glasgow, poop turned white for a couple of days.
    The 80s were great.
    My childhood piano teacher had no fridge. He used to keep supermarket yoghurts in the larder, and reckoned they tasted best between two weeks and a month.
    It's quite possible to live without a fridge. Penetration in the UK is surprisingly recent. In my family I think parents had their fridge from the start - 1960s, and one set of grandparents had a round cornered 1930s or 1950s (?) style fridge. The other side (who were turn of the century born had a pantry and no fridge up until I think the 1970s. They had a small holding and dad used to do milk rounds with a horse and cart in the 1940s / 1950s.

    UK households with fridges:

    1948: Only 2% of UK households owned a fridge.
    1959: Around 13% of homes had a fridge.
    1960s: Refrigerators became more affordable and popular, and their use changed the way people prepared and stored food.
    1970: 58% of UK households owned a fridge.
    Today: 97% of UK homes have a fridge.

    My little cottage had a traditional larder - N side of the house, down 3 steps, and about 8ft by 4ft. It was filled in during renovation in about 1983.

    Now quite a few self-builders put in pantries on the N-side outside the insulated envelope. I have a corridor suitable for adding a cool-cupboard in due course.

    There are plenty of non-electric ideas around evaporative in insulative cooling.

    When did PBers get the first fridge in your houses?
    Interesting. I presume the late penetration of refrigeration in Iberia is responsible for their love (or tolerance) of UHT milk.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,232
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    And this is where, I think, this and the Pelicot atrocity are related. If these disgusting men think they can get away with these rapes then they will do it and invite other men like them to do it and it really paints and extremely grim picture of society that such a high percentage of men are capable of this and seemingly comfortable raping young girls. It's truly sickening that 9-12% of men from a specific background were suspected or charged with taking part in these rape gangs. Project that figure across the nation and it's a very, very scary figure indeed.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,355
    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc

    I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him

    However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation

    Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?

    Not a restaurant, but my grandmother, a fine Hebridean woman and a good cook, was a bit hard nosed about food storage (she’d laughingly describe her own mother pinging maggots off a piece of mutton before serving it). Gran tended to store cooked foods in the larder rather than the fridge, and more than once I doggedly munched on food I knew was on the edge of safety. The worst occasion was cooked chicken that I knew was off but persisted with. Foolishly went drinking in Edinburgh afterwards to get the taste away, bagged off with someone, post coital puke in their lav, diarrhoea on the first train back to Glasgow, poop turned white for a couple of days.
    The 80s were great.
    My childhood piano teacher had no fridge. He used to keep supermarket yoghurts in the larder, and reckoned they tasted best between two weeks and a month.
    It's quite possible to live without a fridge. Penetration in the UK is surprisingly recent. In my family I think parents had their fridge from the start - 1960s, and one set of grandparents had a round cornered 1930s or 1950s (?) style fridge. The other side (who were turn of the century born had a pantry and no fridge up until I think the 1970s. They had a small holding and dad used to do milk rounds with a horse and cart in the 1940s / 1950s.

    UK households with fridges:

    1948: Only 2% of UK households owned a fridge.
    1959: Around 13% of homes had a fridge.
    1960s: Refrigerators became more affordable and popular, and their use changed the way people prepared and stored food.
    1970: 58% of UK households owned a fridge.
    Today: 97% of UK homes have a fridge.

    My little cottage had a traditional larder - N side of the house, down 3 steps, and about 8ft by 4ft. It was filled in during renovation in about 1983.

    Now quite a few self-builders put in pantries on the N-side outside the insulated envelope. I have a corridor suitable for adding a cool-cupboard in due course.

    There are plenty of non-electric ideas around evaporative in insulative cooling.

    When did PBers get the first fridge in your houses?
    c. 1960, when I was 10. My parents had a deep suspicion of 'tick' so they amassed folding money until they could afford one for cash. By this point we'd already had a TV for three years! In those far-off days TV was more interesting than a fridge.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,978

    Surreal on here tonight. I've just seen Hammond sent back to the pavilion (a cricket joke).
    But, even more absurd than Hammond's innings, I've read a post that compared Tommy Robinson to Nelson Mandela.

    What a Wally.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,143
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    I remember doing a back of an envelope calculation for one of the Northern towns adding up those who had been convicted and comparing it to the census data. The result was pretty similar, roughly 1/10 of the south Asian population had been convicted. It made the protestations that the remainder did not know seem pretty hollow to me. I think it was Rotherham but I can't remember for sure.

    But given some of these children were being raped hundreds of times by different men the number of perpetrators doesn't necessarily tell us a lot about the number of victims.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,017
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    I remember doing a back of an envelope calculation for one of the Northern towns adding up those who had been convicted and comparing it to the census data. The result was pretty similar, roughly 1/10 of the south Asian population had been convicted. It made the protestations that the remainder did not know seem pretty hollow to me. I think it was Rotherham but I can't remember for sure.

    But given some of these children were being raped hundreds of times by different men the number of perpetrators doesn't necessarily tell us a lot about the number of victims.
    Given how hard rape is to prosecute - if 1/10 were convicted, one would have to imagine 25% to 50% were involved.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,893
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    And this is where, I think, this and the Pelicot atrocity are related. If these disgusting men think they can get away with these rapes then they will do it and invite other men like them to do it and it really paints and extremely grim picture of society that such a high percentage of men are capable of this and seemingly comfortable raping young girls. It's truly sickening that 9-12% of men from a specific background were suspected or charged with taking part in these rape gangs. Project that figure across the nation and it's a very, very scary figure indeed.
    Yes, it is one of the most frightening stats I have seen

    There are some incendiary claims on TwiX that in certain communities EVERYONE KNEW and kept quiet, for the sake of the peace, and because the idea of men predating girls OUTSIDE the community - especially kaffir girls, white trash, etc - was better than it happening inside the community

    If this attitude really prevailed in significant Muslim enclaves - and we do NOT have anything like proof, tho the initial numbers are worrying - then the epic scale of this tragedy gets even worse. It is almost bottomless

    This is yet another reason we have to brace, and to overturn the rock, and examine. If this is all nonsense, then let us know it - and be relieved
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,643
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    It is incredible how they just don't get How this looks. Imagine if we discovered in one weekend all this about Spain, or Canada, or Australia, that they essentially allowed 500,000 white girls to be raped and tortured by racist Muslim rape gangs, over decades, on the basis that properly investigating it would "harm community relations". And that many politicians, cops, councillors, journalists, actively conspired to cover it all up

    We would gaze at them with appalled despair and profound contempt. Yet, because it is us, it is mystifying to them why there is worldwide outrage. This is a profound failure of Theory of Mind
    What's scary is that I think my American friend is right and we'll eventually find evidence of these rape gangs operating across lots of European cities, it won't just be the UK.
    There is already evidence in Holland, and elsewhere. In the Netherlands it is called "loverboy" syndrome

    This is actually a subject on which I know a lot, having beem writing about it for 12 years at least. I genuinely wish - in a perverse, selfish way - that I could say Britain is just one of many countries suffering this. But I do not believe this is true. I believe we in the UK are uniquely bad, possibly by an order of magnitude

    I will be "happy" (can't think of a better word) if I am proven wrong

    It's some weird mix of British familial breakdown, class snobbery, a certain type of unwanted and predatory migrant, police paralysis (thanks to Macpherson) and urban decay in the north (which then spread)

    It's fucking grim and it is fucking depressing and still we have a certain type of left liberal, here and elsewhere, denying it even happened. God help us. This is OUR shame and we must address it
    Google Marc Dutroux.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,893

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    It's not like you to link to an explicitly racist X account. Have a look.
    Shooting the messenger doesn't work any more. Because the so-called legitimate messengers (BBC, legacy media) are proven liars, so we have no choice but to rely on unreliable others.

    Just disprove his maths, if you do that, fair play to you
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,143
    carnforth said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    I remember doing a back of an envelope calculation for one of the Northern towns adding up those who had been convicted and comparing it to the census data. The result was pretty similar, roughly 1/10 of the south Asian population had been convicted. It made the protestations that the remainder did not know seem pretty hollow to me. I think it was Rotherham but I can't remember for sure.

    But given some of these children were being raped hundreds of times by different men the number of perpetrators doesn't necessarily tell us a lot about the number of victims.
    Given how hard rape is to prosecute - if 1/10 were convicted, one would have to imagine 25% to 50% were involved.
    I can imagine that in cases like that with young victims with various other issues identification was the biggest issue. It would be surprising if the children even knew many of their names.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,232
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    And this is where, I think, this and the Pelicot atrocity are related. If these disgusting men think they can get away with these rapes then they will do it and invite other men like them to do it and it really paints and extremely grim picture of society that such a high percentage of men are capable of this and seemingly comfortable raping young girls. It's truly sickening that 9-12% of men from a specific background were suspected or charged with taking part in these rape gangs. Project that figure across the nation and it's a very, very scary figure indeed.
    Yes, it is one of the most frightening stats I have seen

    There are some incendiary claims on TwiX that in certain communities EVERYONE KNEW and kept quiet, for the sake of the peace, and because the idea of men predating girls OUTSIDE the community - especially kaffir girls, white trash, etc - was better than it happening inside the community

    If this attitude really prevailed in significant Muslim enclaves - and we do NOT have anything like proof, tho the initial numbers are worrying - then the epic scale of this tragedy gets even worse. It is almost bottomless

    This is yet another reason we have to brace, and to overturn the rock, and examine. If this is all nonsense, then let us know it - and be relieved
    And on that grim note I shall part for the evening, I have a consulting day tomorrow for a company on readying their ancient data architecture for AI.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,238
    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc

    I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him

    However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation

    Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?

    Not a restaurant, but my grandmother, a fine Hebridean woman and a good cook, was a bit hard nosed about food storage (she’d laughingly describe her own mother pinging maggots off a piece of mutton before serving it). Gran tended to store cooked foods in the larder rather than the fridge, and more than once I doggedly munched on food I knew was on the edge of safety. The worst occasion was cooked chicken that I knew was off but persisted with. Foolishly went drinking in Edinburgh afterwards to get the taste away, bagged off with someone, post coital puke in their lav, diarrhoea on the first train back to Glasgow, poop turned white for a couple of days.
    The 80s were great.
    My childhood piano teacher had no fridge. He used to keep supermarket yoghurts in the larder, and reckoned they tasted best between two weeks and a month.
    It's quite possible to live without a fridge. Penetration in the UK is surprisingly recent. In my family I think parents had their fridge from the start - 1960s, and one set of grandparents had a round cornered 1930s or 1950s (?) style fridge. The other side (who were turn of the century born had a pantry and no fridge up until I think the 1970s. They had a small holding and dad used to do milk rounds with a horse and cart in the 1940s / 1950s.

    UK households with fridges:

    1948: Only 2% of UK households owned a fridge.
    1959: Around 13% of homes had a fridge.
    1960s: Refrigerators became more affordable and popular, and their use changed the way people prepared and stored food.
    1970: 58% of UK households owned a fridge.
    Today: 97% of UK homes have a fridge.

    My little cottage had a traditional larder - N side of the house, down 3 steps, and about 8ft by 4ft. It was filled in during renovation in about 1983.

    Now quite a few self-builders put in pantries on the N-side outside the insulated envelope. I have a corridor suitable for adding a cool-cupboard in due course.

    There are plenty of non-electric ideas around evaporative in insulative cooling.

    When did PBers get the first fridge in your houses?
    Interesting. I presume the late penetration of refrigeration in Iberia is responsible for their love (or tolerance) of UHT milk.
    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc

    I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him

    However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation

    Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?

    Not a restaurant, but my grandmother, a fine Hebridean woman and a good cook, was a bit hard nosed about food storage (she’d laughingly describe her own mother pinging maggots off a piece of mutton before serving it). Gran tended to store cooked foods in the larder rather than the fridge, and more than once I doggedly munched on food I knew was on the edge of safety. The worst occasion was cooked chicken that I knew was off but persisted with. Foolishly went drinking in Edinburgh afterwards to get the taste away, bagged off with someone, post coital puke in their lav, diarrhoea on the first train back to Glasgow, poop turned white for a couple of days.
    The 80s were great.
    My childhood piano teacher had no fridge. He used to keep supermarket yoghurts in the larder, and reckoned they tasted best between two weeks and a month.
    It's quite possible to live without a fridge. Penetration in the UK is surprisingly recent. In my family I think parents had their fridge from the start - 1960s, and one set of grandparents had a round cornered 1930s or 1950s (?) style fridge. The other side (who were turn of the century born had a pantry and no fridge up until I think the 1970s. They had a small holding and dad used to do milk rounds with a horse and cart in the 1940s / 1950s.

    UK households with fridges:

    1948: Only 2% of UK households owned a fridge.
    1959: Around 13% of homes had a fridge.
    1960s: Refrigerators became more affordable and popular, and their use changed the way people prepared and stored food.
    1970: 58% of UK households owned a fridge.
    Today: 97% of UK homes have a fridge.

    My little cottage had a traditional larder - N side of the house, down 3 steps, and about 8ft by 4ft. It was filled in during renovation in about 1983.

    Now quite a few self-builders put in pantries on the N-side outside the insulated envelope. I have a corridor suitable for adding a cool-cupboard in due course.

    There are plenty of non-electric ideas around evaporative in insulative cooling.

    When did PBers get the first fridge in your houses?
    Interesting. I presume the late penetration of refrigeration in Iberia is responsible for their love (or tolerance) of UHT milk.
    I didn't have a fridge when I bought my house in 2012. First one was a hand-me-down from friends revovating their kitchen a year or so later, then I had my grandparents fridge freezer when they went in a home a couple of years after that.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,978
    The central question regards the grooming gangs is what it says about the British establishment. Are they in hoc to radical progressive ideology pace Matthew Goodwin or is that they don't really believe anything at all (Kathleen Stock) or they are simply loyal to their careers (John Gray). I'd love to have an answer. I very much support the idea of meritocracy but I can't help feeling that those who have reached the heights of British power over the last 50 years are those that have been most driven to attain it and I'm not sure such people tend to have much of an inner moral code.

    Good night.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,017
    A quick thread about TV documentaries on Grooming Gangs and "Fake Grooming Gangs" and which are still on streaming and which mysteriously absent:

    https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1875847368656167394
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571

    The central question regards the grooming gangs is what it says about the British establishment. Are they in hoc to radical progressive ideology pace Matthew Goodwin or is that they don't really believe anything at all (Kathleen Stock) or they are simply loyal to their careers (John Gray). I'd love to have an answer. I very much support the idea of meritocracy but I can't help feeling that those who have reached the heights of British power over the last 50 years are those that have been most driven to attain it and I'm not sure such people tend to have much of an inner moral code.

    Good night.

    • It's a big world and they couldn't come to terms with the numbers.
    • It was just easier not to notice.
    It's not a nice world, is it :(
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571

    ...pace Matthew Goodwin...

    I was told off the other day for using the word "pace" in the way you use it. Apparently, you use "pace" when you are disagreeing with the person. If you are citing that person, you use "per", not "pace".

  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,162
    edited January 6

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    This is infinitely vaster, longer, greater, horribler than the Pelicot case, or indeed anything in the USA in terms of sex crime and state cover-up. But if that gets you through your Lib Dem multikulti day, do carry on
    I've come to the conclusion that whatever ideology people claim to believe in, some people are so far up their party political arses they can't see the wood for the trees. I onced got involved in a political campaign and quickly realised that the need to continually chant the mantra wasn't for me.

    Just read an extraordinary piece by former Tory MP for Telford Lucy Allan. I don't know anything of her but it fits with so much of what I've heard about this story down the years. For those who think I have an agenda against Muslims I will say this. There are many men who if allowed to will commit sexual abuse. I'm kind of cynical in this respect. But what outrages me is how so much of the British state seems to have engaged in a deliberate attempt to betray it's own citizens right to justice when they have been the victims of the most appalling crimes.
    She's a funny, fairly pernicious imo, old stick.

    Publicly supported the Reform Candidate a few days before the 2024 Election, and left the Conservatives.
    https://youtu.be/YqL8PbGPlpI?t=189

    Reportedly (by the BBC and others) forged a death threat from a constituent.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35027252

    History of bullying staff. Has promoted a few things that are a little loopy (to me). And somehow has had a couple of senior public sector positions.

    She was one of several Conservative MPs who promoted a fake video alleging that Keir Starmer obstructed the prosecution of grooming gangs:

    Downing Street has rebuked Conservative MPs, including a minister, for sharing a video from a far-right Twitter account that falsely claimed Sir Keir Starmer obstructed the prosecution of grooming gang members when he led the Crown Prosecution Service.
    ...
    The video was shared by Dorries as well as the Telford MP Lucy Allan and Maria Caulfield, who represents Lewes. All commented at what the video purported to show, with Dorries calling it “revealing”.


    So, a useful idiot for the Far Right.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Allan_(politician)

    My view is that much of this deliberately racialised narrative is fake, and too many people (including here) are unfortunately falling for it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,367
    Trump won't renounce Farage, Farage has backed him and the MAGA movement for far longer than Musk has and Trump values loyalty above all else.

    Farage also is pushing a UK and US trade deal so the UK avoids the tariffs Trump is planning on imposing on the EU, China, Mexico and Canada
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,017
    Local blog:

    https://debunkingtamworth.com/

    Hit with US subpeona on behalf of UK councillor:

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42603292
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,367
    edited January 6
    Lawrence Fox meanwhile has now shifted from Reclaim, his former party and distanced himself from Farage and now backs Badenoch

    'There is no mechanism within the constitution of the party for him to be replaced.

    We need a united, democratic and accountable alternative.

    I think you would like
    @KemiBadenoch


    She’s fighting an uphill battle with her party, but I have faith in her.'
    https://x.com/LozzaFox/status/1875905843264430283
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,367

    viewcode said:

    Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .

    Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?

    The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'

    He must have real respect for women.
    Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
    Why do I need to come to terms with it? I mean how do you know I have or haven't?

    I've not participated in any of the crimes, I don't know anybody who has, if I did I would have gone to the authorities.

    Should I also come to terms with the CSE crimes committed by the Catholic Church and the Church of England or is that different?
    Because all you do is deflect. You simply won't admit that there is a particular problem with women among British Pakistani men. I suggest you start watching youtube channels from people like Candid With Lubna.

    https://www.youtube.com/@Lubna.Candid
    Fuck off, you tried to turn this into a partisan smear about the Labour AG then have been embarrassed the process started under a Tory AG and another Tory AG did something similar.

    I have consistently said there's a problem and it needs sorting. I pointed out there was an approach by the mosques to stamp this out.

    My mantra has always been let justice be done though the heavens fall.
    I haven't been embarrassed by anything. What 'process' are you talking about? A whole series of different legal decisions which others have been happy to refer to but not the one that Habib referenced regarding a Syrian migrant made by the current AG as I understand. A person I DID NOT smear but simply asked for an answer to.
    Can you direct me to all your posts about the Church scandals and victims?
    Sexual crimes committed by men against women and girls are a profound human problem that exists across all societies. I take the fairly standard liberal view. I have no love for any religious grouping. I don't go through all my previous posts but if I felt that there was a deliberate attempt to censor or deflect away from what had gone on in the Church/BBC/Hollywood I'd be saying so.
    The Archbishop of Canterbury has just resigned for a deliberate attempt to deflect away from what has gone on in the Church of England.
    Smyth was a barrister not even a C of E priest who ran a few evangelical camps, Welby resigned only as he didn't follow up further a Lambeth Palace referral to police in 2013
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,162
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    In 2022 there were 107k children being "looked after" in the care system in England and Wales (a record). A generation of kids in these facilities is probably 5-10 years maximum and maybe less so the number of kids in care over 30 years might amount to 400k, probably less, in the whole country. Some of the victims were of course not in care but I agree that some of the numbers being thrown around are far too high. Of course any number of children being abused like that is too high.

    https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/statistics-briefings/looked-after-children
    I think you need to drill down on context in that, to get a proper picture.

    80% are not in "these facilities", if you mean Residential Homes or Institutions. ~80% are with Foster Parents, or Parents. Residential Homes are around 20%.




  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,162
    carnforth said:

    Local blog:

    https://debunkingtamworth.com/

    Hit with US subpeona on behalf of UK councillor:

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42603292

    Do you think this is genuine? I can't see any names - even of the blog.

    It usually works the other way round.

    AFAIK, UK legislation is a rather more productive way of doing such an attack.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,150
    eek said:

    Is it just me or are the latest trolls really incompetent.

    I mean who cares what people in Benidorm think about Tommy Robinson

    This one can at least capitalise proper nouns.

    This place has gone mad over the last three evenings. Hats off to TSE for teasing out our fash sympathetic posters. Some surprises but the usual names remained in the frame too.

    Oh and when Musk frog marches Socialists and Centrist Dads down to the stadium for their final outing could he also consider posters who call "Twitter", "twatter"?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,367
    edited January 6

    Musk is now retweeting an account suggesting Farage has Stockholm syndrome over Islam.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1876025855740359040

    That could be very damaging for Farage, his Reform core vote is hardly pro Islam and he is highly unlikely to win over Labour or LD, Green, SNP or Corbynite pro Gaza Independent voters who are more tolerant of the growing Islamic community in the UK.

    Indeed he now risks being squeezed from both ends. Musk and Fox seem to be becoming more pro Kemi while Tommy Robinson has previously backed UKIP and could well come back to lead UKIP once released from jail and challenge Farage for white working class support on the grounds he is not hard enough on containing Islam in the UK
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,647

    eek said:

    Is it just me or are the latest trolls really incompetent.

    I mean who cares what people in Benidorm think about Tommy Robinson

    This one can at least capitalise proper nouns.

    This place has gone mad over the last three evenings. Hats off to TSE for teasing out our fash sympathetic posters. Some surprises but the usual names remained in the frame too.

    Oh and when Musk frog marches Socialists and Centrist Dads down to the stadium for their final outing could he also consider posters who call "Twitter", "twatter"?
    No. It is Twatter. Always has been.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,017
    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    Local blog:

    https://debunkingtamworth.com/

    Hit with US subpeona on behalf of UK councillor:

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42603292

    Do you think this is genuine? I can't see any names - even of the blog.

    It usually works the other way round.

    AFAIK, UK legislation is a rather more productive way of doing such an attack.
    I found the site by looking at the HN commenter's previous comments. No reason to think it isn't.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,029
    MattW said:

    I'm taking a PB break from commenting; I've had enough of the current BTL hysteria.

    See you all in a week or three. Stay sane.

    ATB to @rcs1000 and @TSE .

    I know what you mean. I'm only on here occasionally these days. Best wishes.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571
    Andy_JS said:

    MattW said:

    I'm taking a PB break from commenting; I've had enough of the current BTL hysteria.

    See you all in a week or three. Stay sane.

    ATB to @rcs1000 and @TSE .

    I know what you mean. I'm only on here occasionally these days. Best wishes.
    Damn, there's only going to be a few people left... :(
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571
    To swerve slightly from today's theme, you will recall my insistence that storytelling techniques are central to politics, and that Labour have neglected this at their peril. John Harris (someone who should have been sent to the Lords) agrees with me and has written in the Guardian, which you can find here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/05/labours-new-year-resolution-starmer-story-social-democratic
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,413
    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    And @Foxy
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571
    edited January 6

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    And @Foxy
    Oh, damn... :(:(
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571
    In the desire for something light and frothy in the face of so much horror, the Golden Globes award ceremony is on. Here'e the link: https://www.theguardian.com/film/live/2025/jan/05/golden-globes-2025-the-winners-the-losers-the-red-carpet-live
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571
    viewcode said:

    In the desire for something light and frothy in the face of so much horror, the Golden Globes award ceremony is on. Here'e the link: https://www.theguardian.com/film/live/2025/jan/05/golden-globes-2025-the-winners-the-losers-the-red-carpet-live

    Bucky won Best Film Actor, Demi Moore won Best Film Actress. Colin Farrell and Jodie Foster the TV equivalents.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,615
    Trudeau to resign

    https://x.com/business/status/1876083488115347745

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is likely to announce his resignation as leader of the Liberal Party this week, the Globe and Mail reported
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,893
    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    It’s unpleasant for them because we are witnessing the collapse of their lifelong religion - liberal multiculturalism - in realtime. In days. That’s it
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,571
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    It’s unpleasant for them because we are witnessing the collapse of their lifelong religion - liberal multiculturalism - in realtime. In days. That’s it
    Whilst you might be right, you'd hardly expect them to like it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,754
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    It’s unpleasant for them because we are witnessing the collapse of their lifelong religion - liberal multiculturalism - in realtime. In days. That’s it
    There's the fact that, for Labour supporters, they're having to change to defence from offence after around fifteen years. That might well be uncomfortable.

    But I might hazard another guess: more than one poster has mentioned the atmosphere in the BTL comments since you returned. Might you consider that *you* are actually part of the problem?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,150

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    And @Foxy
    @Foxy suggested this place had become a sewer a couple of nights ago. If anything it has subsequently got worse. It is no longer for the faint hearted, particularly if overt racial prejudice makes one queasy.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,293
    viewcode said:

    In the desire for something light and frothy in the face of so much horror, the Golden Globes award ceremony is on. Here'e the link: https://www.theguardian.com/film/live/2025/jan/05/golden-globes-2025-the-winners-the-losers-the-red-carpet-live

    Host Nikki Glaser killed it with the opening monologue.

    https://x.com/goldenglobes/status/1876077747359088733

    Different style to Ricky Gervais, but still doing a good job of poking fun at the lot of them.
    “Welcome to the Golden Globes, Ozempic’s biggest night”
    “You’re all so famous and powerful, you can do anything. Except tell the country who to vote for”.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,293
    Three-hour interview with Zelensky, by Lex Fridman.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u321m25rKXc

    (They spoke in a combination of English, Ukranian, and Russian. You can choose whether to listen to the original audio, or to choose an overdub of the whole thing in the language of your choice. Impressive production).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,754
    Sandpit said:

    Three-hour interview with Zelensky, by Lex Fridman.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u321m25rKXc

    (They spoke in a combination of English, Ukranian, and Russian. You can choose whether to listen to the original audio, or to choose an overdub of the whole thing in the language of your choice. Impressive production).

    The clip I've seen has Zelensky explaining why he would not conduct the interview in Russian, as Fridman stupidly wanted.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,754
    Sandpit said:

    Three-hour interview with Zelensky, by Lex Fridman.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u321m25rKXc

    (They spoke in a combination of English, Ukranian, and Russian. You can choose whether to listen to the original audio, or to choose an overdub of the whole thing in the language of your choice. Impressive production).

    Also, some in Ukraine are claiming that Fridman's editing and translation into English are (ahem) rather poor.

    "Kremlin asset Lex Fridman weaponized fake English dubbing of Zelensky interview conducted in Russian. The asshole dubbed Zelensky saying Ukraine punishes corruption with a "slap on the wrist." The idiom doesn't even exist in Russian, whereas in English it means an inconsequential reprimand."

    https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:lfxlhdtxkyczcuroq4q2umqy/post/3lezjejyx2c2t?ref_src=embed
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,040
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    And this is where, I think, this and the Pelicot atrocity are related. If these disgusting men think they can get away with these rapes then they will do it and invite other men like them to do it and it really paints and extremely grim picture of society that such a high percentage of men are capable of this and seemingly comfortable raping young girls. It's truly sickening that 9-12% of men from a specific background were suspected or charged with taking part in these rape gangs. Project that figure across the nation and it's a very, very scary figure indeed.
    I agree that there is a commonality with the Pelicot case. That commonality being current male culture, and the culture of impunity around rape and sexual assault.

    The strange thing about the news of the grooming gangs is that this blew up as a scandal nearly a decade ago in Britain, since when there have been regular court cases and convictions. It's not obvious to me that there's a particular problem with prosecuting these cases, while there certainly is a problem with prosecuting rape more generally, if you compare conviction rates to the British Crime Survey.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,150
    tyson said:

    MaxPB said:

    tyson said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.

    I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans haven't previously heard of the rape gang scandal/coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK. He said they only see whatever Robinson and his supporters put on YT about the rape gangs over the past 10 years and suddenly everything he's been saying seems prophetic and his imprisonment looks like the state attempting to silence him over these videos.

    He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.

    ...

    What has surprised me is the outrage and repulsion in the LIBERAL Anglosphere. Australia, Canada, America, and beyond. All saying "Britain has lost all right to lecture anyone on human rights, rape culture, misogyny, racism"

    Basically, we are humiliated. Our only choice is to face up to it. I hope Starmer sees this, with his speech
    I know quite a lot about the grooming gangs, taxi driver, night time economy preying on vulnerable kids with drugs and whatnot and really horrible...but the real stomach churning paedophiles who abused pre-pubescent kids, many within their own families and their own children were almost universally white men..
    You're right about the last point, yet when did the police and authorities cover up for those paedophiles and refuse to investigate multiple reports of gang rapes? What people like you and others on here don't understand is that the anger across the world is about the coverup by the British establishment that allowed the rapists to continue raping these poor children at will. A rapist is going to rape, sadly there is little we can do to stop that other than remove that person from society.

    When those cases with those disgusting men raping their daughters/sons/nieces/nephews came to light charges were brought and they got locked up, the failure there a lot of the time was among other family members not coming forwards to make those reports and children feeling unable to do so, however when those reports are made action is usually taken and investigations made. The difference here is that those actions and investigations never happened, those rapists were allowed to continue with impunity even after reports were made to the police and other people in authority.

    Do you see the difference, people understand that the rapists are awful and clearly need to be locked up and I'm glad that there has been action to do so over the last decade (though not nearly enough and sentences haven't been anywhere near tough enough). What we need answers on are the systemic coverups that seemingly cut across all parts of the state. What drove these ordinary people who probably were decent in their daily lives to turn a blind eye to the suffering of these girls and allow these rapists to continue and how many of them are still operating in children's services, how do we change that culture of valuing cultural harmony higher than the kids who were being raped? These are questions that need answers.
    I think you'll find that those vulnerable kids are still being exploited in much the same way...local authorities simply pay for them to be cared for by unregulated providers and ship them to other areas of the country to avoid responsibility....


    In my experience there really was no cover up...the police were just not interested (and didn't have the time) in hearing about 16 year old kids in care taking drugs and not returning to placements...and they are as hopeless now in dealing with it as they were then....

    I honestly try to avoid this kind of discussion because it is too close to home, but the level of ignorance is astonishing...

    Is it ignorance? Partially, but it is also an opportunity to racially stereotype Muslims. Funny thing is all Muslims are "guilty" but the extrapolation doesn't extend to all taxi drivers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,293
    Zelensky to Trump: Look, you have $300bn of frozen Russian assets, let us use that to buy your weapons and then rebuild our country.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,754
    Oh, and in other news, Friday *might* be an exciting day for astroheads. New Glenn's maiden launch has been puhsed back two days to then (AIUI because of weather), and the next Starship flight is also due that day.

    Good luck to both!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,647
    MattW said:

    I'm taking a PB break from commenting; I've had enough of the current BTL hysteria.

    See you all in a week or three. Stay sane.

    ATB to @rcs1000 and @TSE .

    A shame.

    Buy To Let is controversial, true. But surely not that problematic?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,293
    Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail appears to be the source for the Trudeau-to-resign story.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-expected-to-announce-resignation-before-national-caucus/

    Justin Trudeau is expected to announce as early as Monday that he will resign as Liberal Party Leader, three sources said Sunday, as the Prime Minister faces a caucus revolt and dismal public opinion polls that show his party will likely be swept out of power by Pierre Poilievre’s Conservatives.

    “The sources stressed that they don’t know definitely when Mr. Trudeau will announce his plans to leave but said they expect it will happen before a key national caucus meeting on Wednesday. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the sources because they were not authorized to discuss internal party matters.

    “One of the sources, who spoke recently to the Prime Minister, said Mr. Trudeau realizes he needs to make a statement before he meets the Liberal caucus so it doesn’t look like he was forced out by his own MPs.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,025
    Sandpit said:

    Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail appears to be the source for the Trudeau-to-resign story.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-expected-to-announce-resignation-before-national-caucus/

    Justin Trudeau is expected to announce as early as Monday that he will resign as Liberal Party Leader, three sources said Sunday, as the Prime Minister faces a caucus revolt and dismal public opinion polls that show his party will likely be swept out of power by Pierre Poilievre’s Conservatives.

    “The sources stressed that they don’t know definitely when Mr. Trudeau will announce his plans to leave but said they expect it will happen before a key national caucus meeting on Wednesday. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the sources because they were not authorized to discuss internal party matters.

    “One of the sources, who spoke recently to the Prime Minister, said Mr. Trudeau realizes he needs to make a statement before he meets the Liberal caucus so it doesn’t look like he was forced out by his own MPs.

    I suspect this is far too little far too late for Trudeau and the Liberals. The polls look horrible - the latest Angus Reid has the Liberals in third, five points behind the NDP and facing a Conservative landslide on a 14% swing.

    Poilievre has to deal with the distractions of Trump and that will take some navigating but he looks set to be the winner of the next election and some poor Liberal schmuck will get six months of being Prime Minister before being consigned to the dustbin of history.
  • Trudeau to resign

    https://x.com/business/status/1876083488115347745

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is likely to announce his resignation as leader of the Liberal Party this week, the Globe and Mail reported

    Some good news for a Monday morning.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,647

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    And this is where, I think, this and the Pelicot atrocity are related. If these disgusting men think they can get away with these rapes then they will do it and invite other men like them to do it and it really paints and extremely grim picture of society that such a high percentage of men are capable of this and seemingly comfortable raping young girls. It's truly sickening that 9-12% of men from a specific background were suspected or charged with taking part in these rape gangs. Project that figure across the nation and it's a very, very scary figure indeed.
    I agree that there is a commonality with the Pelicot case. That commonality being current male culture, and the culture of impunity around rape and sexual assault.

    The strange thing about the news of the grooming gangs is that this blew up as a scandal nearly a decade ago in Britain, since when there have been regular court cases and convictions. It's not obvious to me that there's a particular problem with prosecuting these cases, while there certainly is a problem with prosecuting rape more generally, if you compare conviction rates to the British Crime Survey.
    There were actually 3 real problems.

    The first problem was no prosecutions. Thanks to Mrs May, prosecutions are stacking up.

    The second problem is the total lack of accountability for those who not merely ignored what was going on, but worked to suppress reporting of it.

    Thirdly the victims have been, in general, ignored.

    The last two problems are the standard operating position of the state. See Hillsborough, Aberfan, Post Office, Blood scandal etc.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,757

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    And this is where, I think, this and the Pelicot atrocity are related. If these disgusting men think they can get away with these rapes then they will do it and invite other men like them to do it and it really paints and extremely grim picture of society that such a high percentage of men are capable of this and seemingly comfortable raping young girls. It's truly sickening that 9-12% of men from a specific background were suspected or charged with taking part in these rape gangs. Project that figure across the nation and it's a very, very scary figure indeed.
    I agree that there is a commonality with the Pelicot case. That commonality being current male culture, and the culture of impunity around rape and sexual assault.

    The strange thing about the news of the grooming gangs is that this blew up as a scandal nearly a decade ago in Britain, since when there have been regular court cases and convictions. It's not obvious to me that there's a particular problem with prosecuting these cases, while there certainly is a problem with prosecuting rape more generally, if you compare conviction rates to the British Crime Survey.
    There were actually 3 real problems.

    The first problem was no prosecutions. Thanks to Mrs May, prosecutions are stacking up.

    The second problem is the total lack of accountability for those who not merely ignored what was going on, but worked to suppress reporting of it.

    Thirdly the victims have been, in general, ignored.

    The last two problems are the standard operating position of the state. See Hillsborough, Aberfan, Post Office, Blood scandal etc.
    Actually, there is a specific fourth problem too, which is a consequence of these and which continues to this day:

    There continues to be an epidemic of sexual abuse in the care system.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,647
    A

    Trudeau to resign

    https://x.com/business/status/1876083488115347745

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is likely to announce his resignation as leader of the Liberal Party this week, the Globe and Mail reported

    Hmmmm.

    Not sure this will move the Canadian polls.

    The ratings of the party vs leader suggest this is as much about anger at the incumbents as anything else.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,699
    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    Local blog:

    https://debunkingtamworth.com/

    Hit with US subpeona on behalf of UK councillor:

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42603292

    Do you think this is genuine? I can't see any names - even of the blog.

    It usually works the other way round.

    AFAIK, UK legislation is a rather more productive way of doing such an attack.
    The sole purpose of the US subpeona is to get Cludflare to release the ownership details of the site.

    So the story is likely to be true and the issue is simply that you can’t be 100% anonymous online. Cloudflare are busting going to pass your details in because he won’t be paying them enough to justify anything else - they aim to solve DDOS attacks not privacy ones
  • eekeek Posts: 28,699

    MattW said:

    I'm taking a PB break from commenting; I've had enough of the current BTL hysteria.

    See you all in a week or three. Stay sane.

    ATB to @rcs1000 and @TSE .

    A shame.

    Buy To Let is controversial, true. But surely not that problematic?
    I think autocorrect replaces SYL / Tommy Robinson with a different acronym that @MattW uses in his day job
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,589
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    I'm taking a PB break from commenting; I've had enough of the current BTL hysteria.

    See you all in a week or three. Stay sane.

    ATB to @rcs1000 and @TSE .

    A shame.

    Buy To Let is controversial, true. But surely not that problematic?
    I think autocorrect replaces SYL / Tommy Robinson with a different acronym that @MattW uses in his day job
    Surely he is just using Below The Line to refer to the comments section?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,647
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    I'm taking a PB break from commenting; I've had enough of the current BTL hysteria.

    See you all in a week or three. Stay sane.

    ATB to @rcs1000 and @TSE .

    A shame.

    Buy To Let is controversial, true. But surely not that problematic?
    I think autocorrect replaces SYL / Tommy Robinson with a different acronym that @MattW uses in his day job
    I was trying to inject some humour into the proceedings. Failed abjectly, as usual.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,754
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    And this is where, I think, this and the Pelicot atrocity are related. If these disgusting men think they can get away with these rapes then they will do it and invite other men like them to do it and it really paints and extremely grim picture of society that such a high percentage of men are capable of this and seemingly comfortable raping young girls. It's truly sickening that 9-12% of men from a specific background were suspected or charged with taking part in these rape gangs. Project that figure across the nation and it's a very, very scary figure indeed.
    I agree that there is a commonality with the Pelicot case. That commonality being current male culture, and the culture of impunity around rape and sexual assault.

    The strange thing about the news of the grooming gangs is that this blew up as a scandal nearly a decade ago in Britain, since when there have been regular court cases and convictions. It's not obvious to me that there's a particular problem with prosecuting these cases, while there certainly is a problem with prosecuting rape more generally, if you compare conviction rates to the British Crime Survey.
    There were actually 3 real problems.

    The first problem was no prosecutions. Thanks to Mrs May, prosecutions are stacking up.

    The second problem is the total lack of accountability for those who not merely ignored what was going on, but worked to suppress reporting of it.

    Thirdly the victims have been, in general, ignored.

    The last two problems are the standard operating position of the state. See Hillsborough, Aberfan, Post Office, Blood scandal etc.
    Actually, there is a specific fourth problem too, which is a consequence of these and which continues to this day:

    There continues to be an epidemic of sexual abuse in the care system.
    And a fifth problem too: shocking levels of abuse of all sorts in society, and often acceptance of abuse.

    (Not that I think that problem's got any worse...)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,647
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    Local blog:

    https://debunkingtamworth.com/

    Hit with US subpeona on behalf of UK councillor:

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42603292

    Do you think this is genuine? I can't see any names - even of the blog.

    It usually works the other way round.

    AFAIK, UK legislation is a rather more productive way of doing such an attack.
    The sole purpose of the US subpeona is to get Cludflare to release the ownership details of the site.

    So the story is likely to be true and the issue is simply that you can’t be 100% anonymous online. Cloudflare are busting going to pass your details in because he won’t be paying them enough to justify anything else - they aim to solve DDOS attacks not privacy ones
    This relates to a whole stack of court cases in the US. Cloudflare simply do not fight a request to identify coming from a judicial court.

    If you want privacy for your domain, don’t use Cloudfare.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,647
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    The grooming gang story continues to gain traction in the US.

    https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1875984544828129472

    The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
    No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
    Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?

    One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
    Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
    I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
    There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
    Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
    I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.

    Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
    Not saying you're wrong, but where does this 250,000 children figure come from? It sounds implausible to me.

    250,000 acts of abuse with many children abused many times to get to that figure seems more plausible.
    Ann Cryer who did a lot of legwork on this estimated that 250k children were abused by these rape gangs over a 20-30 year period as a low estimate. Over that timeframe it seems plausible when you consider the national scale of the problem.
    If is worth remembering that if you believe those numbers, then you are saying sending like 5% of young women of a certain age were abused by the gangs.

    I struggle to believe that.

    It's also worth remembering that the majority of kids who were abused were in the care system (where sexual abuse is still rife today), which again makes it hard to get to those kinds of total numbers.

    It's over at least 50 years. The first cases of Pakistani gang grooming date back that far. In this light, it is very very easy to reach hundreds of thousands

    Also, the abuse was at extremely high level within communities

    "𝗧𝗘𝗟𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗗

    The Telford inquiry reveals that during Operation Chalice, approximately 1 in 8 adult Muslim men in Telford were identified as suspects, and 1 in 11 were arrested."

    https://x.com/CompositeGuy_/status/1875946399642317205

    And this is where, I think, this and the Pelicot atrocity are related. If these disgusting men think they can get away with these rapes then they will do it and invite other men like them to do it and it really paints and extremely grim picture of society that such a high percentage of men are capable of this and seemingly comfortable raping young girls. It's truly sickening that 9-12% of men from a specific background were suspected or charged with taking part in these rape gangs. Project that figure across the nation and it's a very, very scary figure indeed.
    I agree that there is a commonality with the Pelicot case. That commonality being current male culture, and the culture of impunity around rape and sexual assault.

    The strange thing about the news of the grooming gangs is that this blew up as a scandal nearly a decade ago in Britain, since when there have been regular court cases and convictions. It's not obvious to me that there's a particular problem with prosecuting these cases, while there certainly is a problem with prosecuting rape more generally, if you compare conviction rates to the British Crime Survey.
    There were actually 3 real problems.

    The first problem was no prosecutions. Thanks to Mrs May, prosecutions are stacking up.

    The second problem is the total lack of accountability for those who not merely ignored what was going on, but worked to suppress reporting of it.

    Thirdly the victims have been, in general, ignored.

    The last two problems are the standard operating position of the state. See Hillsborough, Aberfan, Post Office, Blood scandal etc.
    Actually, there is a specific fourth problem too, which is a consequence of these and which continues to this day:

    There continues to be an epidemic of sexual abuse in the care system.
    Yes, you are right.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,293
    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail appears to be the source for the Trudeau-to-resign story.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-expected-to-announce-resignation-before-national-caucus/

    Justin Trudeau is expected to announce as early as Monday that he will resign as Liberal Party Leader, three sources said Sunday, as the Prime Minister faces a caucus revolt and dismal public opinion polls that show his party will likely be swept out of power by Pierre Poilievre’s Conservatives.

    “The sources stressed that they don’t know definitely when Mr. Trudeau will announce his plans to leave but said they expect it will happen before a key national caucus meeting on Wednesday. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the sources because they were not authorized to discuss internal party matters.

    “One of the sources, who spoke recently to the Prime Minister, said Mr. Trudeau realizes he needs to make a statement before he meets the Liberal caucus so it doesn’t look like he was forced out by his own MPs.

    I suspect this is far too little far too late for Trudeau and the Liberals. The polls look horrible - the latest Angus Reid has the Liberals in third, five points behind the NDP and facing a Conservative landslide on a 14% swing.

    Poilievre has to deal with the distractions of Trump and that will take some navigating but he looks set to be the winner of the next election and some poor Liberal schmuck will get six months of being Prime Minister before being consigned to the dustbin of history.
    He must have memories of was it 1994 (Edit: 1993), when the Conservatives went from government to two seats overnight.

    Trudeau knows that the electoral system can dump you hard in Canada, and that it must be in the interests of his party to go into it with a new leader to at least avoid a similar fate.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,647
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail appears to be the source for the Trudeau-to-resign story.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-expected-to-announce-resignation-before-national-caucus/

    Justin Trudeau is expected to announce as early as Monday that he will resign as Liberal Party Leader, three sources said Sunday, as the Prime Minister faces a caucus revolt and dismal public opinion polls that show his party will likely be swept out of power by Pierre Poilievre’s Conservatives.

    “The sources stressed that they don’t know definitely when Mr. Trudeau will announce his plans to leave but said they expect it will happen before a key national caucus meeting on Wednesday. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the sources because they were not authorized to discuss internal party matters.

    “One of the sources, who spoke recently to the Prime Minister, said Mr. Trudeau realizes he needs to make a statement before he meets the Liberal caucus so it doesn’t look like he was forced out by his own MPs.

    I suspect this is far too little far too late for Trudeau and the Liberals. The polls look horrible - the latest Angus Reid has the Liberals in third, five points behind the NDP and facing a Conservative landslide on a 14% swing.

    Poilievre has to deal with the distractions of Trump and that will take some navigating but he looks set to be the winner of the next election and some poor Liberal schmuck will get six months of being Prime Minister before being consigned to the dustbin of history.
    He must have memories of was it 1994 (Edit: 1993), when the Conservatives went from government to two seats overnight.

    Trudeau knows that the electoral system can dump you hard in Canada, and that it must be in the interests of his party to go into it with a new leader to at least avoid a similar fate.
    Or not go down with the ship - at this point can anyone make a difference.

    My guess is that a successor will get a brief, small poll bump, then back to the same story. Think post Boris Johnson in the U.K…
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,293

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail appears to be the source for the Trudeau-to-resign story.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-expected-to-announce-resignation-before-national-caucus/

    Justin Trudeau is expected to announce as early as Monday that he will resign as Liberal Party Leader, three sources said Sunday, as the Prime Minister faces a caucus revolt and dismal public opinion polls that show his party will likely be swept out of power by Pierre Poilievre’s Conservatives.

    “The sources stressed that they don’t know definitely when Mr. Trudeau will announce his plans to leave but said they expect it will happen before a key national caucus meeting on Wednesday. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the sources because they were not authorized to discuss internal party matters.

    “One of the sources, who spoke recently to the Prime Minister, said Mr. Trudeau realizes he needs to make a statement before he meets the Liberal caucus so it doesn’t look like he was forced out by his own MPs.

    I suspect this is far too little far too late for Trudeau and the Liberals. The polls look horrible - the latest Angus Reid has the Liberals in third, five points behind the NDP and facing a Conservative landslide on a 14% swing.

    Poilievre has to deal with the distractions of Trump and that will take some navigating but he looks set to be the winner of the next election and some poor Liberal schmuck will get six months of being Prime Minister before being consigned to the dustbin of history.
    He must have memories of was it 1994 (Edit: 1993), when the Conservatives went from government to two seats overnight.

    Trudeau knows that the electoral system can dump you hard in Canada, and that it must be in the interests of his party to go into it with a new leader to at least avoid a similar fate.
    Or not go down with the ship - at this point can anyone make a difference.

    My guess is that a successor will get a brief, small poll bump, then back to the same story. Think post Boris Johnson in the U.K…
    Oh indeed. A new leader will probably lead to a heavy defeat at the polls, but carrying on with Trudeau will definitely lead to a heavy defeat at the polls.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,388
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    It’s unpleasant for them because we are witnessing the collapse of their lifelong religion - liberal multiculturalism - in realtime. In days. That’s it
    Horse dips in and out quite regularly anyway and Beibherli_C has been relatively infrequent. Sorry to see Matt stop posting. He’s one of the good ones.

    I get the discussion is uncomfortable for many of us.

    But it’s a discussion we need to have.

    Again it’s a case of institutional inaction, in this case due to ‘community cohesion’ initially and then to protect the institution. We see this so often.

    Look at the fawning and cowering response to the community in Leeds that rioted after children were taken into care. The judiciary and politicians were practically apologetic for doing , essentially, the right thing.

    Institutions in this country are there to serve us not themselves. Same with the public sector.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,388

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    I'm taking a PB break from commenting; I've had enough of the current BTL hysteria.

    See you all in a week or three. Stay sane.

    ATB to @rcs1000 and @TSE .

    A shame.

    Buy To Let is controversial, true. But surely not that problematic?
    I think autocorrect replaces SYL / Tommy Robinson with a different acronym that @MattW uses in his day job
    Surely he is just using Below The Line to refer to the comments section?

    I did wonder as he’s a landlord.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,140

    NEW THREAD

  • TazTaz Posts: 15,388
    edited January 6

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    And @Foxy
    @Foxy suggested this place had become a sewer a couple of nights ago. If anything it has subsequently got worse. It is no longer for the faint hearted, particularly if overt racial prejudice makes one queasy.
    Perhaps you should flounce too ? Then come back a few days later.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,388
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail appears to be the source for the Trudeau-to-resign story.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-expected-to-announce-resignation-before-national-caucus/

    Justin Trudeau is expected to announce as early as Monday that he will resign as Liberal Party Leader, three sources said Sunday, as the Prime Minister faces a caucus revolt and dismal public opinion polls that show his party will likely be swept out of power by Pierre Poilievre’s Conservatives.

    “The sources stressed that they don’t know definitely when Mr. Trudeau will announce his plans to leave but said they expect it will happen before a key national caucus meeting on Wednesday. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the sources because they were not authorized to discuss internal party matters.

    “One of the sources, who spoke recently to the Prime Minister, said Mr. Trudeau realizes he needs to make a statement before he meets the Liberal caucus so it doesn’t look like he was forced out by his own MPs.

    I suspect this is far too little far too late for Trudeau and the Liberals. The polls look horrible - the latest Angus Reid has the Liberals in third, five points behind the NDP and facing a Conservative landslide on a 14% swing.

    Poilievre has to deal with the distractions of Trump and that will take some navigating but he looks set to be the winner of the next election and some poor Liberal schmuck will get six months of being Prime Minister before being consigned to the dustbin of history.
    He must have memories of was it 1994 (Edit: 1993), when the Conservatives went from government to two seats overnight.

    Trudeau knows that the electoral system can dump you hard in Canada, and that it must be in the interests of his party to go into it with a new leader to at least avoid a similar fate.
    So what’s gone wrong for Trumps governor of Canada ? Didn’t he used to be massively popular ?

    Is it policy missteps or something else ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,150
    Dura_Ace said:

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    I have a very high tolerance for unpleasantness but I'm done.

    I come to pb because it's informative and amusing. Right wing fucktards blasting ropes of jizz into each other's faces because of Musk's latest tweet is neither of those things,
    I'll miss your automotive adventures. But yes the place has become a hotbed of islamophobia. One poster in particular tees up the hatred and several this week have taken the shot. Good luck in the Kingdom. Come back with an abandoned supercar.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,617

    carnforth said:

    viewcode said:

    Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .

    Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?

    The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'

    He must have real respect for women.
    Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
    There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
    Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
    Read https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-67924138 for a more recent case.

    Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.

    All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.


    The Sky News reporting gets more graphic: https://news.sky.com/story/seven-members-of-paedophile-gang-guilty-of-running-monstrous-child-sex-abuse-ring-13008082

    Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
    you cannot stop it if authorities let off a large amount of it due to race/religion etc. Great way to ensure certain groups are demonised when they are allowed to do as they wish. Country is in a right state and it would be a different story if it was the toffs children being assaulted and raped.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,150
    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    And @Foxy
    @Foxy suggested this place had become a sewer a couple of nights ago. If anything it has subsequently got worse. It is no longer for the faint hearted, particularly if overt racial prejudice makes one queasy.
    Perhaps you should flounce too ? Then come back a few days later.
    I thought you avoided reading my posts. I don't read your "Reeves is shit" posts as you advised. I'll leave if I so desire and based on the islamophobic bile spitting that has gone on over the last few days why wouldn't I?

    The site has been a great asset for me since 2005. I did leave for a number of years but came back for GE 2017 and it has remained informative throughout although over the years we have lost some great posters, sometimes because of the behaviour of other posters, and one in particular.

    If you want it to be part of a Conservative/Reform echo chamber chewing the fat with the Field Marshal and others that's fine. However an anti Muslim echo chamber, cloaked in the shroud of Rochdale taxi driver child abuse doesn't interest me. By the number of posters actively condemning then leaving the site over this weekend suggests racial hatred is not for them either

    Several posters should be ashamed of themselves, but due to their lack of self awareness, I doubt they will. I'll come and go as I please until the mods say otherwise. If you want me gone you better take it up with them.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,617

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    have to be an idiot to be taken in though
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,388

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    And @Foxy
    @Foxy suggested this place had become a sewer a couple of nights ago. If anything it has subsequently got worse. It is no longer for the faint hearted, particularly if overt racial prejudice makes one queasy.
    Perhaps you should flounce too ? Then come back a few days later.
    I thought you avoided reading my posts. I don't read your "Reeves is shit" posts as you advised. I'll leave if I so desire and based on the islamophobic bile spitting that has gone on over the last few days why wouldn't I?

    The site has been a great asset for me since 2005. I did leave for a number of years but came back for GE 2017 and it has remained informative throughout although over the years we have lost some great posters, sometimes because of the behaviour of other posters, and one in particular.

    If you want it to be part of a Conservative/Reform echo chamber chewing the fat with the Field Marshal and others that's fine. However an anti Muslim echo chamber, cloaked in the shroud of Rochdale taxi driver child abuse doesn't interest me. By the number of posters actively condemning then leaving the site over this weekend suggests racial hatred is not for them either

    Several posters should be ashamed of themselves, but due to their lack of self awareness, I doubt they will. I'll come and go as I please until the mods say otherwise. If you want me gone you better take it up with them.
    No, I said I had no wish to engage with you. However on this it is worth breaking that rule.

    I do not see the commentary as Anti Muslim. More a concern about how the grooming scandal became what it was. I appreciate that is uncomfortable and for some of you then you find it challenging. So be it. It is a conversation that has to be had.

    On the day that seemed to stress so many fragile flowers I was posting about darts.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,045

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    And @Foxy
    @Foxy suggested this place had become a sewer a couple of nights ago. If anything it has subsequently got worse. It is no longer for the faint hearted, particularly if overt racial prejudice makes one queasy.
    Perhaps you should flounce too ? Then come back a few days later.
    I thought you avoided reading my posts. I don't read your "Reeves is shit" posts as you advised. I'll leave if I so desire and based on the islamophobic bile spitting that has gone on over the last few days why wouldn't I?

    The site has been a great asset for me since 2005. I did leave for a number of years but came back for GE 2017 and it has remained informative throughout although over the years we have lost some great posters, sometimes because of the behaviour of other posters, and one in particular.

    If you want it to be part of a Conservative/Reform echo chamber chewing the fat with the Field Marshal and others that's fine. However an anti Muslim echo chamber, cloaked in the shroud of Rochdale taxi driver child abuse doesn't interest me. By the number of posters actively condemning then leaving the site over this weekend suggests racial hatred is not for them either

    Several posters should be ashamed of themselves, but due to their lack of self awareness, I doubt they will. I'll come and go as I please until the mods say otherwise. If you want me gone you better take it up with them.
    Good post. This place has become toxic. Even those who were sometimes interesting or even amusing have stopped being or stopped posting. It's become a really ugly place
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,045
    Dura_Ace said:

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    I have a very high tolerance for unpleasantness but I'm done.

    I come to pb because it's informative and amusing. Right wing fucktards blasting ropes of jizz into each other's faces because of Musk's latest tweet is neither of those things,
    Moi aussi
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,388
    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    I have a very high tolerance for unpleasantness but I'm done.

    I come to pb because it's informative and amusing. Right wing fucktards blasting ropes of jizz into each other's faces because of Musk's latest tweet is neither of those things,
    Moi aussi
    I know we don't always see eye to eye but all the best Roger. Sincerely.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,045
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Sorry to see so many “take a break” in recent days.

    Hopefully it’s clearer than ever that Musk and X seek only to sow division.

    @BatteryCorrectHorse , @MattW, @Beibheirli_C ... even @Andy_JS , PB's shining star, now comments here occasionally

    In the end people comment here voluntarily, and if it becomes unpleasant they will leave.
    It’s unpleasant for them because we are witnessing the collapse of their lifelong religion - liberal multiculturalism - in realtime. In days. That’s it
    Horse dips in and out quite regularly anyway and Beibherli_C has been relatively infrequent. Sorry to see Matt stop posting. He’s one of the good ones.

    I get the discussion is uncomfortable for many of us.

    But it’s a discussion we need to have.

    Again it’s a case of institutional inaction, in this case due to ‘community cohesion’ initially and then to protect the institution. We see this so often.

    Look at the fawning and cowering response to the community in Leeds that rioted after children were taken into care. The judiciary and politicians were practically apologetic for doing , essentially, the right thing.

    Institutions in this country are there to serve us not themselves. Same with the public sector.
    Don't confuse 'a discussiion we need to have' with a bunch of racists airing their racism which is what it is
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