Labour is being a bit shit at the moment on the things that matter, like the economy and social care, so maybe all this Tommy Robinson Musk stuff about the last government is kind of ok by them.
I’d rather they actually pulled their fingers out and started doing stuff though. Follow Ed Miliband’s lead.
I mean, if Ed Milliband redirects the £20bn CCS budget to putting an electric car charging point in every lampost, that'd be an ok thing to follow.
Labour is being a bit shit at the moment on the things that matter, like the economy and social care, so maybe all this Tommy Robinson Musk stuff about the last government is kind of ok by them.
I’d rather they actually pulled their fingers out and started doing stuff though. Follow Ed Miliband’s lead.
Given that Ed Miliband is about to waste billions on carbon capture just as the western world rapidly reduces it's carbon output I would prefer they did nothing.
Equally the Chagos islands appear to be a very bad political move...
Those passages do Starmer credit but it is remarkable how the landscape has changed.
Firstly, in Scotland, we have the rape shield provisions found in the Criminal Procedure (S) Act 1995. These make it impermissible to ask any complainer about any prior sexual or criminal conduct unless an application has been made to the court explaining in advance why that evidence might be relevant (an obvious example being a previous admitted false allegation). Secondly, in Scotland, we have gone a long way (some might say too far) in excluding what we call collateral material, such as that the complainer had consented on other occasions. Taken together, the scope of cross examination has been very severely restricted and it tends to be relatively brief.
Secondly, we have simply stopped being apologetic about our victims. Many, possibly even most, have found themselves in situations where they have been sexually abused because they have drug problems, drink problems or psychological issues relating to their mental health. We have gone on the front foot about this. They have been picked because they have these vulnerabilities. It is not a reason to doubt the evidence of the victim, it is a reason to look carefully at the conduct of the accused.
Thirdly, and possibly most controversially in Scotland, the old protections of corroboration have been substantially diminished. What is meant by a de recenti statement (that is immediately after the event) has been extended to months if there are good reasons why it had not been made earlier. Similarly, the rule on distress viewed by an independent witness has been extended in time.
The result of these changes is that it is a very rare allegation of rape that does not get to a jury. Whether they are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt is a different matter but juries too, in my experience, are far more realistic than they used to be about what has really been going on. The #MeToo movement has had a definite and positive effect here. Jurors are much more willing to see abuses of power and addictions as vitiating any question of consent.
Personally, I have some reservations about some of the excluded evidence. I have some worries that a life changing conviction can and does come to pass on the back of what is, in reality, a single source of evidence. I have concerns about the sheer number of cases that are being prosecuted and the delays that causes. But what an improvement.
The general principle of law (English law at least) is that it's preferable to free 10 guilty men rather than wrongly inprison one innocent man.
The problem with rape is that it's a crime which often takes place in private, and which is only criminal if the victim's state of mind at the time make it so. It's therefore unsurprising that, unfortunately, in murky circumstances, when it's basically his word vs hers, particularly in cases where consent has been given in the past, juries have been reluctant to convict.
I'm deeply unconvinced that putting a finger on the scales by withholding relevant information (eg previous consent) is the right course of action. Sure it will mean more guilty men jailed, and that can only be a good thing, but IMHO the potential cost in innocent lives ruined is too high.
Incidentally, none of this is very relevant to the apparent difficulties in apprehending the grooming gangs currently being hotly discussed - enough of their victims were under 16 where it should have only required DNA/medical evidence that intercourse had occurred to prove a charge of statutory rapes.
Problem there is a lack of DNA evidence due to the time between the most recent occurance and reporting the incident to the police.
In one case, the Police litterally caught the offenders in the act. They let the men go. And arrested the girl for being drunk and disorderly.
Is the problem more that 'the police are woeful', then?
They were fixing a problem.
There was no prospect of prosecuting the men. Too difficult etc.
By arresting the girl, they took her away from the men and locked her up in a cell for the night.
From Hillsborough, Stefan Kisco, The Met, and so many other scandals, the police need wiping out and restarting from scratch.
In so many cases they decided the victims were scum and didn't need help.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
If we can talk about something else, admittedly rather depressing, a few days ago an embankment collapsed on the historic Bridgewater Canal.
It's still leaking, and still collapsing. The banks for several hundred yards either side of the breach have been undermined, leading to the steel linings falling into the main channel, and the stop boards are breaking because they're all rotten. Meanwhile, the area damaged by flooding is extensive.
I do not see how this gets repaired, given the owners. We could well have lost the first major canal of the Industrial Age.
The failure mode of the embankment is curious; it'd be interesting to discover how it happened. If we do...
Suggestions I believe that there was a culvert under it which collapsed due to the pressure of floodwater and took the whole embankment with it. It breached pretty much there in the 70s, I think it required the local councils to chip in to get it repaired then.
The other day I had a look at the old ?six inch? maps on NLS, and the modern 1:25,000 maps. There is a stream running away (downstream) from the canal embankment at the place it burst, and the stream is not present upstream. This led me to posit that there was a sluice or overflow structure there. Having said that, although the canal slightly widens at that point on Google Maps Streetview (*), there is not much evident.
Why it's interesting is the fact it has continued to collapse both ways along the canal, with erosion outside the sheet piling, as if the bank is being eroded away from the outside of the canal, not the inside. But IANAE.
(*) Actually point photos taken by users,
OTOH the drone pics look like the embankment crosses a shallow valley (from the flood pattern) so there ought to be a stream on the higher side ... puzzling!
Looking at the maps and the aerial views, I think there used to be a stream running across the field. The canal was then built, and the stream downstream used as an overflow (or whatever) from the canal. To avoid needing another expensive culvert under the embankment, they diverted the tiny stream upstream into the river.
In fact, looking at it again, the 'stream' might actually be an old course of the river.
But I'm probably wrong. It's fun thinking about it, though. At least for me...
So... thinking about it, as a WAG; if it is an old course of the river, could the flood water that built up on the upstream side of the embankment have eroded away the infill of the old river, allowing water to pass under the embankment and weakening its foundations?
Without knowing the sedimentology, it's hard to say, but one can certainly imagine a case where the old stream bed was infilled with sand or whatever. The floodwater could certainly have increased the local water table within the embankment and caused erosion to commence at the downstream side.
Edit: but whatever, I do hope the canal gets repaired.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
Why do I need to come to terms with it? I mean how do you know I have or haven't?
I've not participated in any of the crimes, I don't know anybody who has, if I did I would have gone to the authorities.
Should I also come to terms with the CSE crimes committed by the Catholic Church and the Church of England or is that different?
Because all you do is deflect. You simply won't admit that there is a particular problem with women among British Pakistani men. I suggest you start watching youtube channels from people like Candid With Lubna.
Fuck off, you tried to turn this into a partisan smear about the Labour AG then have been embarrassed the process started under a Tory AG and another Tory AG did something similar.
I have consistently said there's a problem and it needs sorting. I pointed out there was an approach by the mosques to stamp this out.
My mantra has always been let justice be done though the heavens fall.
“My mantra has always been let justice be done though the heavens fall.”
Excellently British.
For full effect, you need to be wearing three piece tweed, plus fours, affecting a moustache that can be used as a rifle rest, and personally thrashing a bounder.
Like Yarxley-Lennon.
Will a morning suit suffice?
I have an addiction to wearing morning suits.
No, no. This is PoshBritishInNoNonesenseDownToEarthMode.
You don't get into fisticuffs with ruffians wearing a morning suit. One dresses for the occasion.
Those passages do Starmer credit but it is remarkable how the landscape has changed.
Firstly, in Scotland, we have the rape shield provisions found in the Criminal Procedure (S) Act 1995. These make it impermissible to ask any complainer about any prior sexual or criminal conduct unless an application has been made to the court explaining in advance why that evidence might be relevant (an obvious example being a previous admitted false allegation). Secondly, in Scotland, we have gone a long way (some might say too far) in excluding what we call collateral material, such as that the complainer had consented on other occasions. Taken together, the scope of cross examination has been very severely restricted and it tends to be relatively brief.
Secondly, we have simply stopped being apologetic about our victims. Many, possibly even most, have found themselves in situations where they have been sexually abused because they have drug problems, drink problems or psychological issues relating to their mental health. We have gone on the front foot about this. They have been picked because they have these vulnerabilities. It is not a reason to doubt the evidence of the victim, it is a reason to look carefully at the conduct of the accused.
Thirdly, and possibly most controversially in Scotland, the old protections of corroboration have been substantially diminished. What is meant by a de recenti statement (that is immediately after the event) has been extended to months if there are good reasons why it had not been made earlier. Similarly, the rule on distress viewed by an independent witness has been extended in time.
The result of these changes is that it is a very rare allegation of rape that does not get to a jury. Whether they are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt is a different matter but juries too, in my experience, are far more realistic than they used to be about what has really been going on. The #MeToo movement has had a definite and positive effect here. Jurors are much more willing to see abuses of power and addictions as vitiating any question of consent.
Personally, I have some reservations about some of the excluded evidence. I have some worries that a life changing conviction can and does come to pass on the back of what is, in reality, a single source of evidence. I have concerns about the sheer number of cases that are being prosecuted and the delays that causes. But what an improvement.
The general principle of law (English law at least) is that it's preferable to free 10 guilty men rather than wrongly inprison one innocent man.
The problem with rape is that it's a crime which often takes place in private, and which is only criminal if the victim's state of mind at the time make it so. It's therefore unsurprising that, unfortunately, in murky circumstances, when it's basically his word vs hers, particularly in cases where consent has been given in the past, juries have been reluctant to convict.
I'm deeply unconvinced that putting a finger on the scales by withholding relevant information (eg previous consent) is the right course of action. Sure it will mean more guilty men jailed, and that can only be a good thing, but IMHO the potential cost in innocent lives ruined is too high.
Incidentally, none of this is very relevant to the apparent difficulties in apprehending the grooming gangs currently being hotly discussed - enough of their victims were under 16 where it should have only required DNA/medical evidence that intercourse had occurred to prove a charge of statutory rapes.
Problem there is a lack of DNA evidence due to the time between the most recent occurance and reporting the incident to the police.
In one case, the Police litterally caught the offenders in the act. They let the men go. And arrested the girl for being drunk and disorderly.
Is the problem more that 'the police are woeful', then?
They were fixing a problem.
There was no prospect of prosecuting the men. Too difficult etc.
By arresting the girl, they took her away from the men and locked her up in a cell for the night.
From Hillsborough, Stefan Kisco, The Met, and so many other scandals, the police need wiping out and restarting from scratch.
In so many cases they decided the victims were scum and didn't need help.
There's a possible racist angle with police as well as with perpetrators. Did police think the victims were sluts because they were sleeping with brown men? Was it not only fear of "upsetting minorities" but also racist disgust? Police attitudes must be part of any enquiry.
I think Bad Enoch will outlast Farage as Farage has a tendency to get bored, give the leadership up to others so he can concentrate on other matters/make money in the States, then return to the leadership whenever it suits him again.
If Farage steps down he can always step back up again, Kemi can't.
On the other hand, Kemi's leadership has two modes of failure- she can jump (agree, unlikely) or be pushed (inevitable in the end). As of now, Nigel can't be pushed from what he owns lock, stock and Rupert.
Someone needs to ask her if she supports what he said, or just his right to say it.
What Kemi Badenoch needs to do is GET SOME POLICIES.
The Tories have no track record of delivery - none. It therefore follows that to get anywhere with the electorate they are going to have to be MORE specific about their policies, timetable, costings, even drafting the bills ready, than the other parties. Kemi needs to get some policies - clever policies, well-thought out policies, eye-catching policies, do the ENGINEERING WORK on them and GET THEM OUT. That is where she will find the Tories' niche - the party of experience, receipts, and holding themselves accountable for delivery because they understand that they failed to deliver before.
On that I agree. No matter how hard she tries she’s not going to be Elon’s favourite. Not if he thinks Farage is too weak and prefers Tommy. The anti woke right is a crowded and competitive field.
I hate to say it, and I know you’d absolutely love it, but the big area for the Tories if they’re so inclined is climate change scepticism, Australian style. Policies to increase fossil fuel subsidies and slash renewables investment, at the same time as cutting fuel duty. It would promise a short term sugar rush in an area Reform aren’t so bothered about because it’s not about race.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
Are you seriously trying to claim that Islam - especially conservative Islam - does not have a problem with patriarchy and misogyny, considerably worse than anywhere else?
This is futile, and makes you look idiotic. And you may not be the brightest spark in the world, or even that middlebrow, but you are not stupid
On the efficacy of previous enquiries, from the Jay report (2014):
"One child who was being prepared to give evidence received a text saying the perpetrator had her younger sister and the choice of what happened next was up to her. She withdrew her statements. At least two other families were terrorised by groups of perpetrators, sitting in cars outside the family home, smashing windows, making abusive and threatening phone calls. On some occasions child victims went back to perpetrators in the belief that this was the only way their parents and other children in the family would be safe. In the most extreme cases, no one in the family believed that the authorities could protect them."
Sweet Jesus Christ. Contrast that with the people defending the culture of the gang rapists (here and elsewhere)
We need an overall inquiry, which is ferociously neutral and forensic. And will put people in court, and then in jail
Perhaps Skyr Toolmakersson will actually surprise us, and do that. If he does, I will be the first to applaud
We don't need yet another inquiry to kick the problem into the long grass. We might have needed more aggressive legal strategies, as some of us on PB recommended in the past, such as lock up the gangs for other gang-related activity which will free victims to come forward, as with Al Capone, as with the Twins, for instance. Or rely on forensic evidence: if your DNA is found on an 12-year-old minge, you're nicked. Or trail victims and bug venues as is done with OCGs.
But where we are now is that an awful lot of these child rape gangs are behind bars. How does Musk think he can read sentencing remarks if they've not been sentenced?
Those passages do Starmer credit but it is remarkable how the landscape has changed.
Firstly, in Scotland, we have the rape shield provisions found in the Criminal Procedure (S) Act 1995. These make it impermissible to ask any complainer about any prior sexual or criminal conduct unless an application has been made to the court explaining in advance why that evidence might be relevant (an obvious example being a previous admitted false allegation). Secondly, in Scotland, we have gone a long way (some might say too far) in excluding what we call collateral material, such as that the complainer had consented on other occasions. Taken together, the scope of cross examination has been very severely restricted and it tends to be relatively brief.
Secondly, we have simply stopped being apologetic about our victims. Many, possibly even most, have found themselves in situations where they have been sexually abused because they have drug problems, drink problems or psychological issues relating to their mental health. We have gone on the front foot about this. They have been picked because they have these vulnerabilities. It is not a reason to doubt the evidence of the victim, it is a reason to look carefully at the conduct of the accused.
Thirdly, and possibly most controversially in Scotland, the old protections of corroboration have been substantially diminished. What is meant by a de recenti statement (that is immediately after the event) has been extended to months if there are good reasons why it had not been made earlier. Similarly, the rule on distress viewed by an independent witness has been extended in time.
The result of these changes is that it is a very rare allegation of rape that does not get to a jury. Whether they are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt is a different matter but juries too, in my experience, are far more realistic than they used to be about what has really been going on. The #MeToo movement has had a definite and positive effect here. Jurors are much more willing to see abuses of power and addictions as vitiating any question of consent.
Personally, I have some reservations about some of the excluded evidence. I have some worries that a life changing conviction can and does come to pass on the back of what is, in reality, a single source of evidence. I have concerns about the sheer number of cases that are being prosecuted and the delays that causes. But what an improvement.
The general principle of law (English law at least) is that it's preferable to free 10 guilty men rather than wrongly inprison one innocent man.
The problem with rape is that it's a crime which often takes place in private, and which is only criminal if the victim's state of mind at the time make it so. It's therefore unsurprising that, unfortunately, in murky circumstances, when it's basically his word vs hers, particularly in cases where consent has been given in the past, juries have been reluctant to convict.
I'm deeply unconvinced that putting a finger on the scales by withholding relevant information (eg previous consent) is the right course of action. Sure it will mean more guilty men jailed, and that can only be a good thing, but IMHO the potential cost in innocent lives ruined is too high.
Incidentally, none of this is very relevant to the apparent difficulties in apprehending the grooming gangs currently being hotly discussed - enough of their victims were under 16 where it should have only required DNA/medical evidence that intercourse had occurred to prove a charge of statutory rapes.
Problem there is a lack of DNA evidence due to the time between the most recent occurance and reporting the incident to the police.
In one case, the Police litterally caught the offenders in the act. They let the men go. And arrested the girl for being drunk and disorderly.
Is the problem more that 'the police are woeful', then?
They were fixing a problem.
There was no prospect of prosecuting the men. Too difficult etc.
By arresting the girl, they took her away from the men and locked her up in a cell for the night.
From Hillsborough, Stefan Kisco, The Met, and so many other scandals, the police need wiping out and restarting from scratch.
In so many cases they decided the victims were scum and didn't need help.
There's a possible racist angle with police as well as with perpetrators. Did police think the victims were sluts because they were sleeping with brown men? Was it not only fear of "upsetting minorities" but also racist disgust? Police attitudes must be part of any enquiry.
Some of the cops arrested so far have been Muslim themselves, likewise implicated councillors
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
Why do I need to come to terms with it? I mean how do you know I have or haven't?
I've not participated in any of the crimes, I don't know anybody who has, if I did I would have gone to the authorities.
Should I also come to terms with the CSE crimes committed by the Catholic Church and the Church of England or is that different?
Because all you do is deflect. You simply won't admit that there is a particular problem with women among British Pakistani men. I suggest you start watching youtube channels from people like Candid With Lubna.
Fuck off, you tried to turn this into a partisan smear about the Labour AG then have been embarrassed the process started under a Tory AG and another Tory AG did something similar.
I have consistently said there's a problem and it needs sorting. I pointed out there was an approach by the mosques to stamp this out.
My mantra has always been let justice be done though the heavens fall.
I haven't been embarrassed by anything. What 'process' are you talking about? A whole series of different legal decisions which others have been happy to refer to but not the one that Habib referenced regarding a Syrian migrant made by the current AG as I understand. A person I DID NOT smear but simply asked for an answer to.
Can you direct me to all your posts about the Church scandals and victims?
Sexual crimes committed by men against women and girls are a profound human problem that exists across all societies. I take the fairly standard liberal view. I have no love for any religious grouping. I don't go through all my previous posts but if I felt that there was a deliberate attempt to censor or deflect away from what had gone on in the Church/BBC/Hollywood I'd be saying so.
Those passages do Starmer credit but it is remarkable how the landscape has changed.
Firstly, in Scotland, we have the rape shield provisions found in the Criminal Procedure (S) Act 1995. These make it impermissible to ask any complainer about any prior sexual or criminal conduct unless an application has been made to the court explaining in advance why that evidence might be relevant (an obvious example being a previous admitted false allegation). Secondly, in Scotland, we have gone a long way (some might say too far) in excluding what we call collateral material, such as that the complainer had consented on other occasions. Taken together, the scope of cross examination has been very severely restricted and it tends to be relatively brief.
Secondly, we have simply stopped being apologetic about our victims. Many, possibly even most, have found themselves in situations where they have been sexually abused because they have drug problems, drink problems or psychological issues relating to their mental health. We have gone on the front foot about this. They have been picked because they have these vulnerabilities. It is not a reason to doubt the evidence of the victim, it is a reason to look carefully at the conduct of the accused.
Thirdly, and possibly most controversially in Scotland, the old protections of corroboration have been substantially diminished. What is meant by a de recenti statement (that is immediately after the event) has been extended to months if there are good reasons why it had not been made earlier. Similarly, the rule on distress viewed by an independent witness has been extended in time.
The result of these changes is that it is a very rare allegation of rape that does not get to a jury. Whether they are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt is a different matter but juries too, in my experience, are far more realistic than they used to be about what has really been going on. The #MeToo movement has had a definite and positive effect here. Jurors are much more willing to see abuses of power and addictions as vitiating any question of consent.
Personally, I have some reservations about some of the excluded evidence. I have some worries that a life changing conviction can and does come to pass on the back of what is, in reality, a single source of evidence. I have concerns about the sheer number of cases that are being prosecuted and the delays that causes. But what an improvement.
The general principle of law (English law at least) is that it's preferable to free 10 guilty men rather than wrongly inprison one innocent man.
The problem with rape is that it's a crime which often takes place in private, and which is only criminal if the victim's state of mind at the time make it so. It's therefore unsurprising that, unfortunately, in murky circumstances, when it's basically his word vs hers, particularly in cases where consent has been given in the past, juries have been reluctant to convict.
I'm deeply unconvinced that putting a finger on the scales by withholding relevant information (eg previous consent) is the right course of action. Sure it will mean more guilty men jailed, and that can only be a good thing, but IMHO the potential cost in innocent lives ruined is too high.
Incidentally, none of this is very relevant to the apparent difficulties in apprehending the grooming gangs currently being hotly discussed - enough of their victims were under 16 where it should have only required DNA/medical evidence that intercourse had occurred to prove a charge of statutory rapes.
Problem there is a lack of DNA evidence due to the time between the most recent occurance and reporting the incident to the police.
In one case, the Police litterally caught the offenders in the act. They let the men go. And arrested the girl for being drunk and disorderly.
Is the problem more that 'the police are woeful', then?
They were fixing a problem.
There was no prospect of prosecuting the men. Too difficult etc.
By arresting the girl, they took her away from the men and locked her up in a cell for the night.
From Hillsborough, Stefan Kisco, The Met, and so many other scandals, the police need wiping out and restarting from scratch.
In so many cases they decided the victims were scum and didn't need help.
There's a possible racist angle with police as well as with perpetrators. Did police think the victims were sluts because they were sleeping with brown men? Was it not only fear of "upsetting minorities" but also racist disgust? Police attitudes must be part of any enquiry.
To be honest based on the experience of some of my female friends when it comes to sexual assaults (by white Brits) then police aren't interested unless there's footage or several corroborating witnesses.
You have one glass of prosecco and basically you're an unreliable witness/victim.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
Why do I need to come to terms with it? I mean how do you know I have or haven't?
I've not participated in any of the crimes, I don't know anybody who has, if I did I would have gone to the authorities.
Should I also come to terms with the CSE crimes committed by the Catholic Church and the Church of England or is that different?
Because all you do is deflect. You simply won't admit that there is a particular problem with women among British Pakistani men. I suggest you start watching youtube channels from people like Candid With Lubna.
Fuck off, you tried to turn this into a partisan smear about the Labour AG then have been embarrassed the process started under a Tory AG and another Tory AG did something similar.
I have consistently said there's a problem and it needs sorting. I pointed out there was an approach by the mosques to stamp this out.
My mantra has always been let justice be done though the heavens fall.
I haven't been embarrassed by anything. What 'process' are you talking about? A whole series of different legal decisions which others have been happy to refer to but not the one that Habib referenced regarding a Syrian migrant made by the current AG as I understand. A person I DID NOT smear but simply asked for an answer to.
Can you direct me to all your posts about the Church scandals and victims?
Sexual crimes committed by men against women and girls are a profound human problem that exists across all societies. I take the fairly standard liberal view. I have no love for any religious grouping. I don't go through all my previous posts but if I felt that there was a deliberate attempt to censor or deflect away from what had gone on in the Church/BBC/Hollywood I'd be saying so.
If we can talk about something else, admittedly rather depressing, a few days ago an embankment collapsed on the historic Bridgewater Canal.
It's still leaking, and still collapsing. The banks for several hundred yards either side of the breach have been undermined, leading to the steel linings falling into the main channel, and the stop boards are breaking because they're all rotten. Meanwhile, the area damaged by flooding is extensive.
I do not see how this gets repaired, given the owners. We could well have lost the first major canal of the Industrial Age.
The failure mode of the embankment is curious; it'd be interesting to discover how it happened. If we do...
Suggestions I believe that there was a culvert under it which collapsed due to the pressure of floodwater and took the whole embankment with it. It breached pretty much there in the 70s, I think it required the local councils to chip in to get it repaired then.
The other day I had a look at the old ?six inch? maps on NLS, and the modern 1:25,000 maps. There is a stream running away (downstream) from the canal embankment at the place it burst, and the stream is not present upstream. This led me to posit that there was a sluice or overflow structure there. Having said that, although the canal slightly widens at that point on Google Maps Streetview (*), there is not much evident.
Why it's interesting is the fact it has continued to collapse both ways along the canal, with erosion outside the sheet piling, as if the bank is being eroded away from the outside of the canal, not the inside. But IANAE.
(*) Actually point photos taken by users,
OTOH the drone pics look like the embankment crosses a shallow valley (from the flood pattern) so there ought to be a stream on the higher side ... puzzling!
Looking at the maps and the aerial views, I think there used to be a stream running across the field. The canal was then built, and the stream downstream used as an overflow (or whatever) from the canal. To avoid needing another expensive culvert under the embankment, they diverted the tiny stream upstream into the river.
In fact, looking at it again, the 'stream' might actually be an old course of the river.
But I'm probably wrong. It's fun thinking about it, though. At least for me...
So... thinking about it, as a WAG; if it is an old course of the river, could the flood water that built up on the upstream side of the embankment have eroded away the infill of the old river, allowing water to pass under the embankment and weakening its foundations?
The sheet piling construction was always vulnerable to water erosion of the soil around the canal, IIRC
Which is why, again, IIRC, there is provision to close off sections of the canal for repair, quite frequently along its length.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
Who's ignoring it? They were charged and convicted. We all know the catholic church is riddled with abuse. No one's pretending that isn't because of priests being unable to marry. Root causes, see? Proper left wing attention to root causes. Unless it's inconvenient? Then fuck root causes.
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
My uncle once had a seafood starter that was so off that he collapsed in minutes, and an ambulance was called because everyone assumed he'd had a heart attack. The place was closed done a few months later when it was discovered they'd been storing all their food in an unrefrigerated shed.
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
Whether you like it or not, this is the face Britain is now presenting to the world. And it is deeply, deeply shameful. The world is looking at us with disgust, outrage and bewilderment
And it ain't just Republicans in the USA. Look at the comments page on the liberal New York Times. Look at forums in France, Holland, Italy, Spain, Australia
They have all suddenly seen this, and grimaced with repulsion. Our national repuation is in the fucking toilet
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
At the university canteen in Dar Es Salaam I chomped into a chicken thigh and felt a pop, then a squirt. A large pus-filled abscess hidden next to the thigh bone had exploded in my mouth. A day later I succumbed to fever and diarrhoea which stayed with me for a week.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
Why do I need to come to terms with it? I mean how do you know I have or haven't?
I've not participated in any of the crimes, I don't know anybody who has, if I did I would have gone to the authorities.
Should I also come to terms with the CSE crimes committed by the Catholic Church and the Church of England or is that different?
Because all you do is deflect. You simply won't admit that there is a particular problem with women among British Pakistani men. I suggest you start watching youtube channels from people like Candid With Lubna.
Fuck off, you tried to turn this into a partisan smear about the Labour AG then have been embarrassed the process started under a Tory AG and another Tory AG did something similar.
I have consistently said there's a problem and it needs sorting. I pointed out there was an approach by the mosques to stamp this out.
My mantra has always been let justice be done though the heavens fall.
I haven't been embarrassed by anything. What 'process' are you talking about? A whole series of different legal decisions which others have been happy to refer to but not the one that Habib referenced regarding a Syrian migrant made by the current AG as I understand. A person I DID NOT smear but simply asked for an answer to.
Can you direct me to all your posts about the Church scandals and victims?
Sexual crimes committed by men against women and girls are a profound human problem that exists across all societies. I take the fairly standard liberal view. I have no love for any religious grouping. I don't go through all my previous posts but if I felt that there was a deliberate attempt to censor or deflect away from what had gone on in the Church/BBC/Hollywood I'd be saying so.
The Archbishop of Canterbury has just resigned for a deliberate attempt to deflect away from what has gone on in the Church of England.
I mean Donald Trump picked an Attorney General who was under public investigation for sex trafficking and sex with a minor. The GOP is hardly in a strong position on the moral outrage.
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
My uncle once had a seafood starter that was so off that he collapsed in minutes, and an ambulance was called because everyone assumed he'd had a heart attack. The place was closed done a few months later when it was discovered they'd been storing all their food in an unrefrigerated shed.
lol!
I think you win with your first effort
Nothing can beat that except actual death (and I hope no one can beat that). Bravo! As it were....
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
Whether you like it or not, this is the face Britain is now presenting to the world. And it is deeply, deeply shameful. The world is looking at us with disgust, outrage and bewilderment
And it ain't just Republicans in the USA. Look at the comments page on the liberal New York Times. Look at forums in France, Holland, Italy, Spain, Australia
They have all suddenly seen this, and grimaced with repulsion. Our national repuation is in the fucking toilet
It’s the face we are showing, thanks to Elon, to the very online English speaking world. My French neighbours are hardly aware of the fact Boris Johnson is no longer PM.
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
At the university canteen in Dar Es Salaam I chomped into a chicken thigh and felt a pop, then a squirt. A large pus-filled abscess hidden next to the thigh bone had exploded in my mouth. A day later I succumbed to fever and diarrhoea which stayed with me for a week.
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
At the university canteen in Dar Es Salaam I chomped into a chicken thigh and felt a pop, then a squirt. A large pus-filled abscess hidden next to the thigh bone had exploded in my mouth. A day later I succumbed to fever and diarrhoea which stayed with me for a week.
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
My uncle once had a seafood starter that was so off that he collapsed in minutes, and an ambulance was called because everyone assumed he'd had a heart attack. The place was closed done a few months later when it was discovered they'd been storing all their food in an unrefrigerated shed.
lol!
I think you win with your first effort
Nothing can beat that except actual death (and I hope no one can beat that). Bravo! As it were....
No-one was ill because of it, but a pub by the river in Cambridge once served a colleague a battered fish that was hot on the outside, but still frozen solid on the inside. A fishy baked alaska,
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
Who's ignoring it? They were charged and convicted. We all know the catholic church is riddled with abuse. No one's pretending that isn't because of priests being unable to marry. Root causes, see? Proper left wing attention to root causes. Unless it's inconvenient? Then fuck root causes.
Multiple people have been charged and convicted in the Rotherham case, which you just brought up. Several people here obsessively post about Muslim grooming gangs, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
My uncle once had a seafood starter that was so off that he collapsed in minutes, and an ambulance was called because everyone assumed he'd had a heart attack. The place was closed done a few months later when it was discovered they'd been storing all their food in an unrefrigerated shed.
Keep them coming! It takes something to relegate abscess noshing to runner up.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
Who's ignoring it? They were charged and convicted. We all know the catholic church is riddled with abuse. No one's pretending that isn't because of priests being unable to marry. Root causes, see? Proper left wing attention to root causes. Unless it's inconvenient? Then fuck root causes.
Multiple people have been charged and convicted in the Rotherham case, which you just brought up. Several people here obsessively post about Muslim grooming gangs, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
It's been in the news in the past few days. We tend to be topical here. "Brought up" Jesus Christ.
I mean Donald Trump picked an Attorney General who was under public investigation for sex trafficking and sex with a minor. The GOP is hardly in a strong position on the moral outrage.
It's interesting how this has brought out a strain of anti-Americanism in various British commentators who could previously content themselves with the thought that even though we're no longer as rich and powerful as the Americans, as least we don't have their guns and social issues, and we have our NHS.
Now even that sense of superiority is being taken away from them. It's like a cultural Suez Crisis.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
Why do I need to come to terms with it? I mean how do you know I have or haven't?
I've not participated in any of the crimes, I don't know anybody who has, if I did I would have gone to the authorities.
Should I also come to terms with the CSE crimes committed by the Catholic Church and the Church of England or is that different?
Because all you do is deflect. You simply won't admit that there is a particular problem with women among British Pakistani men. I suggest you start watching youtube channels from people like Candid With Lubna.
Fuck off, you tried to turn this into a partisan smear about the Labour AG then have been embarrassed the process started under a Tory AG and another Tory AG did something similar.
I have consistently said there's a problem and it needs sorting. I pointed out there was an approach by the mosques to stamp this out.
My mantra has always been let justice be done though the heavens fall.
I haven't been embarrassed by anything. What 'process' are you talking about? A whole series of different legal decisions which others have been happy to refer to but not the one that Habib referenced regarding a Syrian migrant made by the current AG as I understand. A person I DID NOT smear but simply asked for an answer to.
Can you direct me to all your posts about the Church scandals and victims?
Sexual crimes committed by men against women and girls are a profound human problem that exists across all societies. I take the fairly standard liberal view. I have no love for any religious grouping. I don't go through all my previous posts but if I felt that there was a deliberate attempt to censor or deflect away from what had gone on in the Church/BBC/Hollywood I'd be saying so.
So you cannot, thanks.
No I'm not gonna bother wasting my time. I don't even know what functions you have to look up old posts.
Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.
I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans haven't previously heard of the rape gang scandal/coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK. He said they only see whatever Robinson and his supporters put on YT about the rape gangs over the past 10 years and suddenly everything he's been saying seems prophetic and his imprisonment looks like the state attempting to silence him over these videos.
He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
Why do I need to come to terms with it? I mean how do you know I have or haven't?
I've not participated in any of the crimes, I don't know anybody who has, if I did I would have gone to the authorities.
Should I also come to terms with the CSE crimes committed by the Catholic Church and the Church of England or is that different?
It's very different. I can't quite put my finger on why and certainly wouldn't write it down such thoughts. But rest assured, it's very different.
It was the people within the institutions that committed the crimes. The "Management" covered it up.
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
My uncle once had a seafood starter that was so off that he collapsed in minutes, and an ambulance was called because everyone assumed he'd had a heart attack. The place was closed done a few months later when it was discovered they'd been storing all their food in an unrefrigerated shed.
Most food poisioning takes 3-8 hours, so that must have been some nasty shit.
On the efficacy of previous enquiries, from the Jay report (2014):
"One child who was being prepared to give evidence received a text saying the perpetrator had her younger sister and the choice of what happened next was up to her. She withdrew her statements. At least two other families were terrorised by groups of perpetrators, sitting in cars outside the family home, smashing windows, making abusive and threatening phone calls. On some occasions child victims went back to perpetrators in the belief that this was the only way their parents and other children in the family would be safe. In the most extreme cases, no one in the family believed that the authorities could protect them."
Sweet Jesus Christ. Contrast that with the people defending the culture of the gang rapists (here and elsewhere)
We need an overall inquiry, which is ferociously neutral and forensic. And will put people in court, and then in jail
Perhaps Skyr Toolmakersson will actually surprise us, and do that. If he does, I will be the first to applaud
We don't need yet another inquiry to kick the problem into the long grass. We might have needed more aggressive legal strategies, as some of us on PB recommended in the past, such as lock up the gangs for other gang-related activity which will free victims to come forward, as with Al Capone, as with the Twins, for instance. Or rely on forensic evidence: if your DNA is found on an 12-year-old minge, you're nicked. Or trail victims and bug venues as is done with OCGs.
But where we are now is that an awful lot of these child rape gangs are behind bars. How does Musk think he can read sentencing remarks if they've not been sentenced?
I hear you, but I think this is now so sensational and global and appalling, the government has no choice but to start with yet another inquiry, but much much bigger
To put this in context, it's like the whole world watched the Mr Bates docudrama, in one weekend, except this was about the rape of 100,000 underage British girls, not 60 subpostmasters wrongly convicted
The UK is standing shivering and alone and ashamed, and the planet is pointing at us with derision and disgust. Giving away Diego Garcia is not gonna cut it
I mean Donald Trump picked an Attorney General who was under public investigation for sex trafficking and sex with a minor. The GOP is hardly in a strong position on the moral outrage.
It's interesting how this has brought out a strain of anti-Americanism in various British commentators who could previously content themselves with the thought that even though we're no longer as rich and powerful as the Americans, as least we don't have their guns and social issues, and we have our NHS.
Now even that sense of superiority is being taken away from them. It's like a cultural Suez Crisis.
From whence do you get your sense of superiority? Because it’s a particularly regal one.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
Who's ignoring it? They were charged and convicted. We all know the catholic church is riddled with abuse. No one's pretending that isn't because of priests being unable to marry. Root causes, see? Proper left wing attention to root causes. Unless it's inconvenient? Then fuck root causes.
Multiple people have been charged and convicted in the Rotherham case, which you just brought up. Several people here obsessively post about Muslim grooming gangs, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
It's been in the news in the past few days. We tend to be topical here. "Brought up" Jesus Christ.
Several people here been obsessively posting about Muslim grooming gangs for as long as I remember being on PB, whether or not the matter has been in the news, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
Why do I need to come to terms with it? I mean how do you know I have or haven't?
I've not participated in any of the crimes, I don't know anybody who has, if I did I would have gone to the authorities.
Should I also come to terms with the CSE crimes committed by the Catholic Church and the Church of England or is that different?
Because all you do is deflect. You simply won't admit that there is a particular problem with women among British Pakistani men. I suggest you start watching youtube channels from people like Candid With Lubna.
Fuck off, you tried to turn this into a partisan smear about the Labour AG then have been embarrassed the process started under a Tory AG and another Tory AG did something similar.
I have consistently said there's a problem and it needs sorting. I pointed out there was an approach by the mosques to stamp this out.
My mantra has always been let justice be done though the heavens fall.
I haven't been embarrassed by anything. What 'process' are you talking about? A whole series of different legal decisions which others have been happy to refer to but not the one that Habib referenced regarding a Syrian migrant made by the current AG as I understand. A person I DID NOT smear but simply asked for an answer to.
Can you direct me to all your posts about the Church scandals and victims?
Sexual crimes committed by men against women and girls are a profound human problem that exists across all societies. I take the fairly standard liberal view. I have no love for any religious grouping. I don't go through all my previous posts but if I felt that there was a deliberate attempt to censor or deflect away from what had gone on in the Church/BBC/Hollywood I'd be saying so.
So you cannot, thanks.
No I'm not gonna bother wasting my time. I don't even know what functions you have to look up old posts.
Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.
I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans who haven't lived in the UK have never previously heard of thr rape gang scandal and coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK.
He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.
He talked a lot about police corruption and organised crime as a fact of life in US cities as something that is quite similar in that people external to the US would be horrified if they learned that in some big cities 20-30% of police were on the take from organised crime syndicates at one point. He contrasted that with what seems to be our systemic issue of rape gangs in UK cities and pointed out that in the US there was/is a personal gain element to being in the payroll of organised crime which motivates those people in the police or government organisations to look the other way, he doesn't understand (and he said this is probably the biggest point of confusion for Americans) what these police officers and other people in government had to gain by looking the other way. There doesn't seem to be a big paper trail of corrupt payments by these rape gangs to police and government officials so what was in it for them, is the big question that in America.
Finally, he said to me that he'd be surprised if this is a UK specific problem, he's of the opinion that these kinds of rape gangs will be rife all across Europe operating under similar circumstances in many countries, I think he's probably right.
Given the horrific conditions in the brutally downtrodden "districts" around Paris...
If we can talk about something else, admittedly rather depressing, a few days ago an embankment collapsed on the historic Bridgewater Canal.
It's still leaking, and still collapsing. The banks for several hundred yards either side of the breach have been undermined, leading to the steel linings falling into the main channel, and the stop boards are breaking because they're all rotten. Meanwhile, the area damaged by flooding is extensive.
I do not see how this gets repaired, given the owners. We could well have lost the first major canal of the Industrial Age.
The failure mode of the embankment is curious; it'd be interesting to discover how it happened. If we do...
Suggestions I believe that there was a culvert under it which collapsed due to the pressure of floodwater and took the whole embankment with it. It breached pretty much there in the 70s, I think it required the local councils to chip in to get it repaired then.
The other day I had a look at the old ?six inch? maps on NLS, and the modern 1:25,000 maps. There is a stream running away (downstream) from the canal embankment at the place it burst, and the stream is not present upstream. This led me to posit that there was a sluice or overflow structure there. Having said that, although the canal slightly widens at that point on Google Maps Streetview (*), there is not much evident.
Why it's interesting is the fact it has continued to collapse both ways along the canal, with erosion outside the sheet piling, as if the bank is being eroded away from the outside of the canal, not the inside. But IANAE.
(*) Actually point photos taken by users,
OTOH the drone pics look like the embankment crosses a shallow valley (from the flood pattern) so there ought to be a stream on the higher side ... puzzling!
Looking at the maps and the aerial views, I think there used to be a stream running across the field. The canal was then built, and the stream downstream used as an overflow (or whatever) from the canal. To avoid needing another expensive culvert under the embankment, they diverted the tiny stream upstream into the river.
In fact, looking at it again, the 'stream' might actually be an old course of the river.
But I'm probably wrong. It's fun thinking about it, though. At least for me...
So... thinking about it, as a WAG; if it is an old course of the river, could the flood water that built up on the upstream side of the embankment have eroded away the infill of the old river, allowing water to pass under the embankment and weakening its foundations?
The sheet piling construction was always vulnerable to water erosion of the soil around the canal, IIRC
Which is why, again, IIRC, there is provision to close off sections of the canal for repair, quite frequently along its length.
The stop planks they are using appear to be mostly rotten. There's videos showing ones they've tried to use that have just splintered and have been left on the bank, whilst one they actually used is broken. (Stop planks are often stored alongside the canal beside the special inserts in the bank that they slot into, whose name I've forgotten.)
I know a little about this, having done similar in the past in culverts. They've put the stop planks in, then put sheeting behind it, and are dropping one-tonne bags of fine aggregate in an attempt to stop the canal. Which confuses me: we would always use clay (ideally in the form of wet (unfired) bricks). Though that would require people getting into the culvert to lay them out. Which was a fun job. If you could not get people in, then bags of clay would be placed.
ISTR Brunel 'fixed' a hole in the Thames Tunnel by dropping bags of clay into the breach from a boat.
The problem with using relatively fine aggregate is that it will get washed away if the bags get holes in them, or water overtops them.
He spoke about police corruption and organised crime as a fact of life in US cities which is quite similar in that people external to the US would be horrified to learn that in big cities 20-30% of police were on the take at one point. He compared that with what seems to be our systemic issue of rape gangs in UK cities and pointed out that in the US there was/is a personal gain element to being in the payroll of organised crime which motivates those people in the police or government organisations to look the other way, he doesn't understand (and he said this is probably the biggest point of confusion for Americans) what these police officers and other people in government had to gain by looking the other way. There doesn't seem to be a big paper trail of corrupt payments by these rape gangs to police and government officials so what was in it for them, is the big question that in America.
Finally, he said to me that he'd be surprised if this is a UK specific problem, he's of the opinion that these kinds of rape gangs will be rife all across Europe operating under similar circumstances in many countries, I think he's probably right.
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
My uncle once had a seafood starter that was so off that he collapsed in minutes, and an ambulance was called because everyone assumed he'd had a heart attack. The place was closed done a few months later when it was discovered they'd been storing all their food in an unrefrigerated shed.
Keep them coming! It takes something to relegate abscess noshing to runner up.
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
If we can talk about something else, admittedly rather depressing, a few days ago an embankment collapsed on the historic Bridgewater Canal.
It's still leaking, and still collapsing. The banks for several hundred yards either side of the breach have been undermined, leading to the steel linings falling into the main channel, and the stop boards are breaking because they're all rotten. Meanwhile, the area damaged by flooding is extensive.
I do not see how this gets repaired, given the owners. We could well have lost the first major canal of the Industrial Age.
The failure mode of the embankment is curious; it'd be interesting to discover how it happened. If we do...
Suggestions I believe that there was a culvert under it which collapsed due to the pressure of floodwater and took the whole embankment with it. It breached pretty much there in the 70s, I think it required the local councils to chip in to get it repaired then.
The other day I had a look at the old ?six inch? maps on NLS, and the modern 1:25,000 maps. There is a stream running away (downstream) from the canal embankment at the place it burst, and the stream is not present upstream. This led me to posit that there was a sluice or overflow structure there. Having said that, although the canal slightly widens at that point on Google Maps Streetview (*), there is not much evident.
Why it's interesting is the fact it has continued to collapse both ways along the canal, with erosion outside the sheet piling, as if the bank is being eroded away from the outside of the canal, not the inside. But IANAE.
(*) Actually point photos taken by users,
OTOH the drone pics look like the embankment crosses a shallow valley (from the flood pattern) so there ought to be a stream on the higher side ... puzzling!
Looking at the maps and the aerial views, I think there used to be a stream running across the field. The canal was then built, and the stream downstream used as an overflow (or whatever) from the canal. To avoid needing another expensive culvert under the embankment, they diverted the tiny stream upstream into the river.
In fact, looking at it again, the 'stream' might actually be an old course of the river.
But I'm probably wrong. It's fun thinking about it, though. At least for me...
So... thinking about it, as a WAG; if it is an old course of the river, could the flood water that built up on the upstream side of the embankment have eroded away the infill of the old river, allowing water to pass under the embankment and weakening its foundations?
The sheet piling construction was always vulnerable to water erosion of the soil around the canal, IIRC
Which is why, again, IIRC, there is provision to close off sections of the canal for repair, quite frequently along its length.
The stop planks they are using appear to be mostly rotten. There's videos showing ones they've tried to use that have just splintered and have been left on the bank, whilst one they actually used is broken. (Stop planks are often stored alongside the canal beside the special inserts in the bank that they slot into, whose name I've forgotten.)
I know a little about this, having done similar in the past in culverts. They've put the stop planks in, then put sheeting behind it, and are dropping one-tonne bags of fine aggregate in an attempt to stop the canal. Which confuses me: we would always use clay (ideally in the form of wet (unfired) bricks). Though that would require people getting into the culvert to lay them out. Which was a fun job. If you could not get people in, then bags of clay would be placed.
ISTR Brunel 'fixed' a hole in the Thames Tunnel by dropping bags of clay into the breach from a boat.
The problem with using relatively fine aggregate is that it will get washed away if the bags get holes in them, or water overtops them.
According to the CanalWorld thread they’ve started replacing the leaky stop planks with earth dams.
Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.
I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans haven't previously heard of the rape gang scandal/coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK. He said they only see whatever Robinson and his supporters put on YT about the rape gangs over the past 10 years and suddenly everything he's been saying seems prophetic and his imprisonment looks like the state attempting to silence him over these videos.
He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.
...
What has surprised me is the outrage and repulsion in the LIBERAL Anglosphere. Australia, Canada, America, and beyond. All saying "Britain has lost all right to lecture anyone on human rights, rape culture, misogyny, racism"
Basically, we are humiliated. Our only choice is to face up to it. I hope Starmer sees this, with his speech
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
My uncle once had a seafood starter that was so off that he collapsed in minutes, and an ambulance was called because everyone assumed he'd had a heart attack. The place was closed done a few months later when it was discovered they'd been storing all their food in an unrefrigerated shed.
Keep them coming! It takes something to relegate abscess noshing to runner up.
A friend of mine at University once used the sink for vomiting and the toilet for diarrhoea at the same time. Such are small bathrooms.
I think Bad Enoch will outlast Farage as Farage has a tendency to get bored, give the leadership up to others so he can concentrate on other matters/make money in the States, then return to the leadership whenever it suits him again.
If Farage steps down he can always step back up again, Kemi can't.
On the other hand, Kemi's leadership has two modes of failure- she can jump (agree, unlikely) or be pushed (inevitable in the end). As of now, Nigel can't be pushed from what he owns lock, stock and Rupert.
Someone needs to ask her if she supports what he said, or just his right to say it.
What Kemi Badenoch needs to do is GET SOME POLICIES.
The Tories have no track record of delivery - none. It therefore follows that to get anywhere with the electorate they are going to have to be MORE specific about their policies, timetable, costings, even drafting the bills ready, than the other parties. Kemi needs to get some policies - clever policies, well-thought out policies, eye-catching policies, do the ENGINEERING WORK on them and GET THEM OUT. That is where she will find the Tories' niche - the party of experience, receipts, and holding themselves accountable for delivery because they understand that they failed to deliver before.
On that I agree. No matter how hard she tries she’s not going to be Elon’s favourite. Not if he thinks Farage is too weak and prefers Tommy. The anti woke right is a crowded and competitive field.
I hate to say it, and I know you’d absolutely love it, but the big area for the Tories if they’re so inclined is climate change scepticism, Australian style. Policies to increase fossil fuel subsidies and slash renewables investment, at the same time as cutting fuel duty. It would promise a short term sugar rush in an area Reform aren’t so bothered about because it’s not about race.
You'll be shocked to learn I don't agree 100%. Reform are going hard on abandoning Net Zero. That gives space for the Tories to go middle way. I'd always try to be more inventive. Tidal Lagoons. Small modular reactors. Not an end to renewables, an end to shit renewables. Decoupling electricity and gas prices. And yes, some gas investment and certainly securing North Sea Oil.
Perhaps regional votes on fracking. I want fracking and believe it will come but it definitely doesn't unite the Tory Party.
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
Who's ignoring it? They were charged and convicted. We all know the catholic church is riddled with abuse. No one's pretending that isn't because of priests being unable to marry. Root causes, see? Proper left wing attention to root causes. Unless it's inconvenient? Then fuck root causes.
Multiple people have been charged and convicted in the Rotherham case, which you just brought up. Several people here obsessively post about Muslim grooming gangs, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
It's been in the news in the past few days. We tend to be topical here. "Brought up" Jesus Christ.
Several people here been obsessively posting about Muslim grooming gangs for as long as I remember being on PB, whether or not the matter has been in the news, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
You don't get it do you? I don't think I've personally posted about it very often. But the reason I do is because there is such an attempt to avoid it. The media is usually all over stories about child sexual abuse and yet when the grotesque verdict came in from Rotherham the entire mainstream media save GB News ignored it. What explanation can there be for this?
I had a feeling that Farage was not going to survive long as Reform party head. He lacks the ability to be a true leader who inspires others. The Reform party is now being run partly from the USA and they are ruthless in making sure you have the right people in place. Farage will be moved possibly into the chairman role.
I am surprised that the PB contributors dont understand the power of Tommy Robinson in UK politics. Outside the UK he is seen as a Nelson Mandela who is a political prisoner because he can rally the masses. I watched his movie and saw nothing wrong with it. It is crazy that he is being locked up in a maximum security jail for making a documentary. He is not a saint but he has more charisma than the whole of the Labour front bench. I cannot fathom the comments of contributors such as Malmesbury. Tommy saw his sister becoming addicted to drugs by a Muslim gang and then raped by her pusher. You want to criticise him for speaking out?!
I used to live in Oxford as a teenager only 100 yards from a care home at the centre of a major CSE scandal and half a mile from the guest house used for most of the crimes. This scandal was the worst crime committed in Oxford for the last 40 years and still scars the town. The politicians on all sides underestimate the trauma inflicted.
Our country is weak at the moment and getting weaker by the day. The business community of which I am part of is not going to save Starmer and we are enjoying watching him squirm. If you ask us who do we support Trump / Musk or Starmer the answer is clear.
I am wondering if any of the 3 leaders will be left by the end of 2025.
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
My uncle once had a seafood starter that was so off that he collapsed in minutes, and an ambulance was called because everyone assumed he'd had a heart attack. The place was closed done a few months later when it was discovered they'd been storing all their food in an unrefrigerated shed.
Keep them coming! It takes something to relegate abscess noshing to runner up.
A friend of mine at University once used the sink for vomiting and the toilet for diarrhoea at the same time. Such are small bathrooms.
If we can talk about something else, admittedly rather depressing, a few days ago an embankment collapsed on the historic Bridgewater Canal.
It's still leaking, and still collapsing. The banks for several hundred yards either side of the breach have been undermined, leading to the steel linings falling into the main channel, and the stop boards are breaking because they're all rotten. Meanwhile, the area damaged by flooding is extensive.
I do not see how this gets repaired, given the owners. We could well have lost the first major canal of the Industrial Age.
The failure mode of the embankment is curious; it'd be interesting to discover how it happened. If we do...
Suggestions I believe that there was a culvert under it which collapsed due to the pressure of floodwater and took the whole embankment with it. It breached pretty much there in the 70s, I think it required the local councils to chip in to get it repaired then.
The other day I had a look at the old ?six inch? maps on NLS, and the modern 1:25,000 maps. There is a stream running away (downstream) from the canal embankment at the place it burst, and the stream is not present upstream. This led me to posit that there was a sluice or overflow structure there. Having said that, although the canal slightly widens at that point on Google Maps Streetview (*), there is not much evident.
Why it's interesting is the fact it has continued to collapse both ways along the canal, with erosion outside the sheet piling, as if the bank is being eroded away from the outside of the canal, not the inside. But IANAE.
(*) Actually point photos taken by users,
OTOH the drone pics look like the embankment crosses a shallow valley (from the flood pattern) so there ought to be a stream on the higher side ... puzzling!
Looking at the maps and the aerial views, I think there used to be a stream running across the field. The canal was then built, and the stream downstream used as an overflow (or whatever) from the canal. To avoid needing another expensive culvert under the embankment, they diverted the tiny stream upstream into the river.
In fact, looking at it again, the 'stream' might actually be an old course of the river.
But I'm probably wrong. It's fun thinking about it, though. At least for me...
So... thinking about it, as a WAG; if it is an old course of the river, could the flood water that built up on the upstream side of the embankment have eroded away the infill of the old river, allowing water to pass under the embankment and weakening its foundations?
The sheet piling construction was always vulnerable to water erosion of the soil around the canal, IIRC
Which is why, again, IIRC, there is provision to close off sections of the canal for repair, quite frequently along its length.
The stop planks they are using appear to be mostly rotten. There's videos showing ones they've tried to use that have just splintered and have been left on the bank, whilst one they actually used is broken. (Stop planks are often stored alongside the canal beside the special inserts in the bank that they slot into, whose name I've forgotten.)
I know a little about this, having done similar in the past in culverts. They've put the stop planks in, then put sheeting behind it, and are dropping one-tonne bags of fine aggregate in an attempt to stop the canal. Which confuses me: we would always use clay (ideally in the form of wet (unfired) bricks). Though that would require people getting into the culvert to lay them out. Which was a fun job. If you could not get people in, then bags of clay would be placed.
ISTR Brunel 'fixed' a hole in the Thames Tunnel by dropping bags of clay into the breach from a boat.
The problem with using relatively fine aggregate is that it will get washed away if the bags get holes in them, or water overtops them.
To start with, planks would be useless. You want something closer to a railway sleeper.
I would have gone with put a couple of the boards in. Then back with bags of shingle - the giant bags you crane in. When that is settled, another board and build the wall of shingle bags higher - you'd also make the wall of shingle thicker as it gets higher.
Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.
I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans haven't previously heard of the rape gang scandal/coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK. He said they only see whatever Robinson and his supporters put on YT about the rape gangs over the past 10 years and suddenly everything he's been saying seems prophetic and his imprisonment looks like the state attempting to silence him over these videos.
He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.
...
What has surprised me is the outrage and repulsion in the LIBERAL Anglosphere. Australia, Canada, America, and beyond. All saying "Britain has lost all right to lecture anyone on human rights, rape culture, misogyny, racism"
Basically, we are humiliated. Our only choice is to face up to it. I hope Starmer sees this, with his speech
We still 'punched above our weight' in international legal institutions, so this kind of scandal cuts at the heart of our soft power. Something is rotten in the state of Britain.
On the efficacy of previous enquiries, from the Jay report (2014):
"One child who was being prepared to give evidence received a text saying the perpetrator had her younger sister and the choice of what happened next was up to her. She withdrew her statements. At least two other families were terrorised by groups of perpetrators, sitting in cars outside the family home, smashing windows, making abusive and threatening phone calls. On some occasions child victims went back to perpetrators in the belief that this was the only way their parents and other children in the family would be safe. In the most extreme cases, no one in the family believed that the authorities could protect them."
Sweet Jesus Christ. Contrast that with the people defending the culture of the gang rapists (here and elsewhere)
We need an overall inquiry, which is ferociously neutral and forensic. And will put people in court, and then in jail
Perhaps Skyr Toolmakersson will actually surprise us, and do that. If he does, I will be the first to applaud
We don't need yet another inquiry to kick the problem into the long grass. We might have needed more aggressive legal strategies, as some of us on PB recommended in the past, such as lock up the gangs for other gang-related activity which will free victims to come forward, as with Al Capone, as with the Twins, for instance. Or rely on forensic evidence: if your DNA is found on an 12-year-old minge, you're nicked. Or trail victims and bug venues as is done with OCGs.
But where we are now is that an awful lot of these child rape gangs are behind bars. How does Musk think he can read sentencing remarks if they've not been sentenced?
I hear you, but I think this is now so sensational and global and appalling, the government has no choice but to start with yet another inquiry, but much much bigger
To put this in context, it's like the whole world watched the Mr Bates docudrama, in one weekend, except this was about the rape of 100,000 underage British girls, not 60 subpostmasters wrongly convicted
The UK is standing shivering and alone and ashamed, and the planet is pointing at us with derision and disgust. Giving away Diego Garcia is not gonna cut it
Hardly anyone outside of this country is interested in its business. As for inquiries, they are useless: a can kicking exercise used by politicians to bury difficult problems, absolve themselves of the need to act and pass them on to their successors. The social care inquiry proposed by Streeting will achieve absolutely nothing of value and we all know it. IICSA achieved absolutely nothing of value and a second IICSA would also achieve absolutely nothing of value. The real point of all these inquiries is to be pointless.
Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.
I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans haven't previously heard of the rape gang scandal/coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK. He said they only see whatever Robinson and his supporters put on YT about the rape gangs over the past 10 years and suddenly everything he's been saying seems prophetic and his imprisonment looks like the state attempting to silence him over these videos.
He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.
...
What has surprised me is the outrage and repulsion in the LIBERAL Anglosphere. Australia, Canada, America, and beyond. All saying "Britain has lost all right to lecture anyone on human rights, rape culture, misogyny, racism"
Basically, we are humiliated. Our only choice is to face up to it. I hope Starmer sees this, with his speech
I think the context of the "why" on the coverup/allowing it to continue is the best reason I've had for the anger across the rest of the world. That point he made about organised crime buying off police and politicians being contrasted to seeming little to no personal gain for the police and authorities who turned a blind eye and then covered for these rapists. No one can compute as to why potentially thousands of people in the police and authorities acted this way when they weren't being paid to do so or having their families threatened by criminals if they didn't do as they were told as happens in the US with organised crime syndicates. It's the best insight I've heard about it in a long time.
Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.
If Farage was actually astute he wouldn't have gotten involved with Musk, or Trump for that matter, in the first place.
Thanks for putting me right. My bad, someone pointed me in the direction of Thomas Knox's X feed so I thought Ted Cruz was responding to Thomas Knox. Easy error to make though.
Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.
I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans haven't previously heard of the rape gang scandal/coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK. He said they only see whatever Robinson and his supporters put on YT about the rape gangs over the past 10 years and suddenly everything he's been saying seems prophetic and his imprisonment looks like the state attempting to silence him over these videos.
He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.
...
He doesn't seem to have had much choice in the matter, but I agree, he's played it well. Stayed classy and nice to Musk, not slated Tommy Robinson either, but remained absolutely firm.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
Who's ignoring it? They were charged and convicted. We all know the catholic church is riddled with abuse. No one's pretending that isn't because of priests being unable to marry. Root causes, see? Proper left wing attention to root causes. Unless it's inconvenient? Then fuck root causes.
Multiple people have been charged and convicted in the Rotherham case, which you just brought up. Several people here obsessively post about Muslim grooming gangs, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
It's been in the news in the past few days. We tend to be topical here. "Brought up" Jesus Christ.
Several people here been obsessively posting about Muslim grooming gangs for as long as I remember being on PB, whether or not the matter has been in the news, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
You don't get it do you? I don't think I've personally posted about it very often. But the reason I do is because there is such an attempt to avoid it. The media is usually all over stories about child sexual abuse and yet when the grotesque verdict came in from Rotherham the entire mainstream media save GB News ignored it. What explanation can there be for this?
Rotherham and the other scandals have been very extensively covered by the mainstream media down the years. I was just watching BBC News and they covered the new Musk/Farage spat and talked about these events and calls for a (new) inquiry.
Some other coverage of Rotherham recently includes
Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.
I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans haven't previously heard of the rape gang scandal/coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK. He said they only see whatever Robinson and his supporters put on YT about the rape gangs over the past 10 years and suddenly everything he's been saying seems prophetic and his imprisonment looks like the state attempting to silence him over these videos.
He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.
...
What has surprised me is the outrage and repulsion in the LIBERAL Anglosphere. Australia, Canada, America, and beyond. All saying "Britain has lost all right to lecture anyone on human rights, rape culture, misogyny, racism"
Basically, we are humiliated. Our only choice is to face up to it. I hope Starmer sees this, with his speech
We still 'punched above our weight' in international legal institutions, so this kind of scandal cuts at the heart of our soft power. Something is rotten in the state of Britain.
Yes, exactly. Liberal human rights lawyers - including Keir Starmer, of course- love to believe this. Britain is an exemplar. That's PRECISELY why they've tried to do the insane Diego Garcia deal, to make them feel good, personally, and to gain some illusory soft power of moral superiority. It was already delusional and pathetic, but now?
Now we look like some grotesque version of a dystopian Somalia, with 100,000-1,000,000 raped underage kids, and an entire Liberal elite class that ignored it, or actually enabled it, and then covered it up, and over decades. In my opinion, it is the worst scandal to hit any western nation in the post war era. It was always lurking, now Musk has made sure the iceberg has met the Titanic
Can you imagine any British politician daring to lecture anyone else, around the world, after this?
Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.
I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans haven't previously heard of the rape gang scandal/coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK. He said they only see whatever Robinson and his supporters put on YT about the rape gangs over the past 10 years and suddenly everything he's been saying seems prophetic and his imprisonment looks like the state attempting to silence him over these videos.
He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.
...
What has surprised me is the outrage and repulsion in the LIBERAL Anglosphere. Australia, Canada, America, and beyond. All saying "Britain has lost all right to lecture anyone on human rights, rape culture, misogyny, racism"
Basically, we are humiliated. Our only choice is to face up to it. I hope Starmer sees this, with his speech
I know quite a lot about the grooming gangs, taxi driver, night time economy preying on vulnerable kids with drugs and whatnot and really horrible...but the real stomach churning paedophiles who abused pre-pubescent kids, many within their own families and their own children were almost universally white men.....and that is based on a thirty year career working in this area rather than just reading stuff on the Internet that seems to reinforce racist tropes....
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
And it's not just America is it. Does Tim think we are being unfairly tarnished? If we were getting international opprobrium over say the plight of the poor I doubt the people who are so unhappy with us taking regard of what others say on grooming gangs would have the same attitude.
I had a feeling that Farage was not going to survive long as Reform party head. He lacks the ability to be a true leader who inspires others. The Reform party is now being run partly from the USA and they are ruthless in making sure you have the right people in place. Farage will be moved possibly into the chairman role.
I am surprised that the PB contributors dont understand the power of Tommy Robinson in UK politics. Outside the UK he is seen as a Nelson Mandela who is a political prisoner because he can rally the masses. I watched his movie and saw nothing wrong with it. It is crazy that he is being locked up in a maximum security jail for making a documentary. He is not a saint but he has more charisma than the whole of the Labour front bench. I cannot fathom the comments of contributors such as Malmesbury. Tommy saw his sister becoming addicted to drugs by a Muslim gang and then raped by her pusher. You want to criticise him for speaking out?!
I used to live in Oxford as a teenager only 100 yards from a care home at the centre of a major CSE scandal and half a mile from the guest house used for most of the crimes. This scandal was the worst crime committed in Oxford for the last 40 years and still scars the town. The politicians on all sides underestimate the trauma inflicted.
Our country is weak at the moment and getting weaker by the day. The business community of which I am part of is not going to save Starmer and we are enjoying watching him squirm. If you ask us who do we support Trump / Musk or Starmer the answer is clear.
I am wondering if any of the 3 leaders will be left by the end of 2025.
That's pretty much errant nonsense from beginning to end. Well done. Great satire.
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
My uncle once had a seafood starter that was so off that he collapsed in minutes, and an ambulance was called because everyone assumed he'd had a heart attack. The place was closed done a few months later when it was discovered they'd been storing all their food in an unrefrigerated shed.
Keep them coming! It takes something to relegate abscess noshing to runner up.
A friend of mine at University once used the sink for vomiting and the toilet for diarrhoea at the same time. Such are small bathrooms.
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
And it's not just America is it. Does Tim think we are being unfairly tarnished? If we were getting international opprobrium over say the plight of the poor I doubt the people who are so unhappy with us taking regard of what others say on grooming gangs would have the same attitude.
It puts the "smash the gangs" policy into perspective
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
Who's ignoring it? They were charged and convicted. We all know the catholic church is riddled with abuse. No one's pretending that isn't because of priests being unable to marry. Root causes, see? Proper left wing attention to root causes. Unless it's inconvenient? Then fuck root causes.
Multiple people have been charged and convicted in the Rotherham case, which you just brought up. Several people here obsessively post about Muslim grooming gangs, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
It's been in the news in the past few days. We tend to be topical here. "Brought up" Jesus Christ.
Several people here been obsessively posting about Muslim grooming gangs for as long as I remember being on PB, whether or not the matter has been in the news, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
You don't get it do you? I don't think I've personally posted about it very often. But the reason I do is because there is such an attempt to avoid it. The media is usually all over stories about child sexual abuse and yet when the grotesque verdict came in from Rotherham the entire mainstream media save GB News ignored it. What explanation can there be for this?
Rotherham and the other scandals have been very extensively covered by the mainstream media down the years. I was just watching BBC News and they covered the new Musk/Farage spat and talked about these events and calls for a (new) inquiry.
Some other coverage of Rotherham recently includes
On the recent convictions in Rotherham, not historic cases, the only journalist present for the sentencing was Charlie Peters from GB News. The entire legacy media did not want to know about it.
Perhaps you don't think another child sex scandal in Rotherham was newsworthy?
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
My uncle once had a seafood starter that was so off that he collapsed in minutes, and an ambulance was called because everyone assumed he'd had a heart attack. The place was closed done a few months later when it was discovered they'd been storing all their food in an unrefrigerated shed.
Keep them coming! It takes something to relegate abscess noshing to runner up.
A friend of mine at University once used the sink for vomiting and the toilet for diarrhoea at the same time. Such are small bathrooms.
We’ve all done that at least once!
Haven’t we?
Brings back memories of a bad lobster bisque in Tel Aviv. I would have happily checked out during that episode.
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
Who's ignoring it? They were charged and convicted. We all know the catholic church is riddled with abuse. No one's pretending that isn't because of priests being unable to marry. Root causes, see? Proper left wing attention to root causes. Unless it's inconvenient? Then fuck root causes.
Multiple people have been charged and convicted in the Rotherham case, which you just brought up. Several people here obsessively post about Muslim grooming gangs, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
It's been in the news in the past few days. We tend to be topical here. "Brought up" Jesus Christ.
Several people here been obsessively posting about Muslim grooming gangs for as long as I remember being on PB, whether or not the matter has been in the news, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
You don't get it do you? I don't think I've personally posted about it very often. But the reason I do is because there is such an attempt to avoid it. The media is usually all over stories about child sexual abuse and yet when the grotesque verdict came in from Rotherham the entire mainstream media save GB News ignored it. What explanation can there be for this?
Rotherham and the other scandals have been very extensively covered by the mainstream media down the years. I was just watching BBC News and they covered the new Musk/Farage spat and talked about these events and calls for a (new) inquiry.
Some other coverage of Rotherham recently includes
On the recent convictions in Rotherham, not historic cases, the only journalist present for the sentencing was Charlie Peters from GB News. The entire legacy media did not want to know about it.
The articles I linked to are on recent convictions, mostly relating to September 2024, but some to May 2024. When was this particular sentencing that Peters reported on? Do you have a link to something more reliable than a Goodwin tweet?
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
And it's not just America is it. Does Tim think we are being unfairly tarnished? If we were getting international opprobrium over say the plight of the poor I doubt the people who are so unhappy with us taking regard of what others say on grooming gangs would have the same attitude.
I just find the idea of Americans lecturing us on the iniquities of misogyny a little irritating. We have a problem- the whole world has a problem. But let us criticise ourselves. Not pay such obsessive attention to what a mad billionaire is saying.
I had a feeling that Farage was not going to survive long as Reform party head. He lacks the ability to be a true leader who inspires others. The Reform party is now being run partly from the USA and they are ruthless in making sure you have the right people in place. Farage will be moved possibly into the chairman role.
I am surprised that the PB contributors dont understand the power of Tommy Robinson in UK politics. Outside the UK he is seen as a Nelson Mandela who is a political prisoner because he can rally the masses. I watched his movie and saw nothing wrong with it. It is crazy that he is being locked up in a maximum security jail for making a documentary. He is not a saint but he has more charisma than the whole of the Labour front bench. I cannot fathom the comments of contributors such as Malmesbury. Tommy saw his sister becoming addicted to drugs by a Muslim gang and then raped by her pusher. You want to criticise him for speaking out?!
I used to live in Oxford as a teenager only 100 yards from a care home at the centre of a major CSE scandal and half a mile from the guest house used for most of the crimes. This scandal was the worst crime committed in Oxford for the last 40 years and still scars the town. The politicians on all sides underestimate the trauma inflicted.
Our country is weak at the moment and getting weaker by the day. The business community of which I am part of is not going to save Starmer and we are enjoying watching him squirm. If you ask us who do we support Trump / Musk or Starmer the answer is clear.
I am wondering if any of the 3 leaders will be left by the end of 2025.
That's pretty much errant nonsense from beginning to end. Well done. Great satire.
A useful comment. I am glad you are able to spell the word satire correctly. Congratulations !! You must be very proud
Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.
I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans haven't previously heard of the rape gang scandal/coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK. He said they only see whatever Robinson and his supporters put on YT about the rape gangs over the past 10 years and suddenly everything he's been saying seems prophetic and his imprisonment looks like the state attempting to silence him over these videos.
He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.
...
What has surprised me is the outrage and repulsion in the LIBERAL Anglosphere. Australia, Canada, America, and beyond. All saying "Britain has lost all right to lecture anyone on human rights, rape culture, misogyny, racism"
Basically, we are humiliated. Our only choice is to face up to it. I hope Starmer sees this, with his speech
I know quite a lot about the grooming gangs, taxi driver, night time economy preying on vulnerable kids with drugs and whatnot and really horrible...but the real stomach churning paedophiles who abused pre-pubescent kids, many within their own families and their own children were almost universally white men..
You're right about the last point, yet when did the police and authorities cover up for those paedophiles and refuse to investigate multiple reports of gang rapes? What people like you and others on here don't understand is that the anger across the world is about the coverup by the British establishment that allowed the rapists to continue raping these poor children at will. A rapist is going to rape, sadly there is little we can do to stop that other than remove that person from society.
When those cases with those disgusting men raping their daughters/sons/nieces/nephews came to light charges were brought and they got locked up, the failure there a lot of the time was among other family members not coming forwards to make those reports and children feeling unable to do so, however when those reports are made action is usually taken and investigations made. The difference here is that those actions and investigations never happened, those rapists were allowed to continue with impunity even after reports were made to the police and other people in authority.
Do you see the difference, people understand that the rapists are awful and clearly need to be locked up and I'm glad that there has been action to do so over the last decade (though not nearly enough and sentences haven't been anywhere near tough enough). What we need answers on are the systemic coverups that seemingly cut across all parts of the state. What drove these ordinary people who probably were decent in their daily lives to turn a blind eye to the suffering of these girls and allow these rapists to continue and how many of them are still operating in children's services, how do we change that culture of valuing cultural harmony higher than the kids who were being raped? These are questions that need answers.
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
Very good move by Nige to separate himself from Elon Musk yesterday surrounding Tommy Robinson. Nige remains the country's most astute politician by a country mile. What Reform may lose on the very far right to the EDL they will gain 10x on the left and right.
I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans haven't previously heard of the rape gang scandal/coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK. He said they only see whatever Robinson and his supporters put on YT about the rape gangs over the past 10 years and suddenly everything he's been saying seems prophetic and his imprisonment looks like the state attempting to silence him over these videos.
He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.
...
What has surprised me is the outrage and repulsion in the LIBERAL Anglosphere. Australia, Canada, America, and beyond. All saying "Britain has lost all right to lecture anyone on human rights, rape culture, misogyny, racism"
Basically, we are humiliated. Our only choice is to face up to it. I hope Starmer sees this, with his speech
We still 'punched above our weight' in international legal institutions, so this kind of scandal cuts at the heart of our soft power. Something is rotten in the state of Britain.
Yes, exactly. Liberal human rights lawyers - including Keir Starmer, of course- love to believe this. Britain is an exemplar. That's PRECISELY why they've tried to do the insane Diego Garcia deal, to make them feel good, personally, and to gain some illusory soft power of moral superiority. It was already delusional and pathetic, but now?
Now we look like some grotesque version of a dystopian Somalia, with 100,000-1,000,000 raped underage kids, and an entire Liberal elite class that ignored it, or actually enabled it, and then covered it up, and over decades. In my opinion, it is the worst scandal to hit any western nation in the post war era. It was always lurking, now Musk has made sure the iceberg has met the Titanic
Can you imagine any British politician daring to lecture anyone else, around the world, after this?
You really are naively ignorant about all this Sean....you are a mouthpiece for this kind of racism....
White kids. mostly those in the care system, have been appallingly left to the wolves for decades, and exploited by white men....it seems to be only the Asian connection now that stokes your vile hatred....
Another question would be why are there so few Asian, teenage girls in the care system that suffer this same kind of abuse?....we talk about a lot about honour stuff in relation to Asian girls, but their kids are not left languishing unprotected in the care system...
The BBC's over-U.S. focus gets ever more egregious
Three out of four of tonight's headline TV news were essentially U.S. news, or U.S domestic news. Bad weather in the U.K, bad weather about to be a problem in the U.S. Musk's views on Trump, and live from the Golden Globes, from Hollywood tonight. No wonder Musk thinks he has an automatic right to interfere here
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
Who's ignoring it? They were charged and convicted. We all know the catholic church is riddled with abuse. No one's pretending that isn't because of priests being unable to marry. Root causes, see? Proper left wing attention to root causes. Unless it's inconvenient? Then fuck root causes.
Multiple people have been charged and convicted in the Rotherham case, which you just brought up. Several people here obsessively post about Muslim grooming gangs, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
It's been in the news in the past few days. We tend to be topical here. "Brought up" Jesus Christ.
Several people here been obsessively posting about Muslim grooming gangs for as long as I remember being on PB, whether or not the matter has been in the news, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
You don't get it do you? I don't think I've personally posted about it very often. But the reason I do is because there is such an attempt to avoid it. The media is usually all over stories about child sexual abuse and yet when the grotesque verdict came in from Rotherham the entire mainstream media save GB News ignored it. What explanation can there be for this?
Rotherham and the other scandals have been very extensively covered by the mainstream media down the years. I was just watching BBC News and they covered the new Musk/Farage spat and talked about these events and calls for a (new) inquiry.
Some other coverage of Rotherham recently includes
On the recent convictions in Rotherham, not historic cases, the only journalist present for the sentencing was Charlie Peters from GB News. The entire legacy media did not want to know about it.
The articles I linked to are on recent convictions, mostly relating to September 2024, but some to May 2024. When was this particular sentencing that Peters reported on? Do you have a link to something more reliable than a Goodwin tweet?
Those discussing the grooming gangs may wish to see the twitter feed of former PB contributor Sean Thomas. You can find it here: https://nitter.poast.org/thomasknox .
Is that the same Sean Thomas who used to post about hiring prostitutes?
The same Sean Thomas who 'in 2003 he wrote an article in The Spectator about his problems with internet porn, and how it caused him to “wank myself into hospital”'
He must have real respect for women.
Many British men can be said to lack respect for women but you need to start coming to terms with the particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin. The crimes are grotesque.
There is no "particular problem of misogyny among British men of Pakistani origin". There has been a problem involving some individual British men of Pakistani origin. Blaming a group for the actions of some individuals is wrong. We shouldn't blame all white British men living in north London for the lack of respect from Sean Thomas. We shouldn't blame all British men of Pakistani origin for the actions of some. Why does this need to be explained to you?
Owen Jones levels of delusion. Have a read through this:
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
Who's ignoring it? They were charged and convicted. We all know the catholic church is riddled with abuse. No one's pretending that isn't because of priests being unable to marry. Root causes, see? Proper left wing attention to root causes. Unless it's inconvenient? Then fuck root causes.
Multiple people have been charged and convicted in the Rotherham case, which you just brought up. Several people here obsessively post about Muslim grooming gangs, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
It's been in the news in the past few days. We tend to be topical here. "Brought up" Jesus Christ.
Several people here been obsessively posting about Muslim grooming gangs for as long as I remember being on PB, whether or not the matter has been in the news, but ignore other grooming gangs or other forms of systemic child sexual abuse. Why is that?
You don't get it do you? I don't think I've personally posted about it very often. But the reason I do is because there is such an attempt to avoid it. The media is usually all over stories about child sexual abuse and yet when the grotesque verdict came in from Rotherham the entire mainstream media save GB News ignored it. What explanation can there be for this?
Rotherham and the other scandals have been very extensively covered by the mainstream media down the years. I was just watching BBC News and they covered the new Musk/Farage spat and talked about these events and calls for a (new) inquiry.
Some other coverage of Rotherham recently includes
On the recent convictions in Rotherham, not historic cases, the only journalist present for the sentencing was Charlie Peters from GB News. The entire legacy media did not want to know about it.
The articles I linked to are on recent convictions, mostly relating to September 2024, but some to May 2024. When was this particular sentencing that Peters reported on? Do you have a link to something more reliable than a Goodwin tweet?
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
This is infinitely vaster, longer, greater, horribler than the Pelicot case, or indeed anything in the USA in terms of sex crime and state cover-up. But if that gets you through your Lib Dem multikulti day, do carry on
The BBC's over-U.S. focus gets ever more egregious
Three out of four of tonight's headline TV news were essentially U.S. news, or U.S domestic news. Bad weather in the U.K, bad weather about to be a problem in the U.S. Musk's views on Trump, and live from the Golden Globes, from Hollywood tonight. No wonder Musk thinks he has an automatic right to interfere here
Sky News is just as bad. I don't see why they interrupt programming to show the orange one doing speeches.
The US with their daily mass shootings can fuck right off.
No, we should feel shame that the gross outrage has been tolerated here.
Is everyone on this island such a bloody cuck that news only becomes news if it, quote, “gains traction” among Americans? Can we not pull our heads out of their arses for one second?
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Do you not feel any shame, that this happened in our country? None at all?
I think most of us felt shame about this, as well as the wider me too revelations, a few years ago. As are the French now about their own shameful multiple rape story. But Americans suddenly discovering it now, to indulge a South African loon’s own hypocritical instincts? That can fuck off.
There's plenty of this exact kind of horrific shit going on in the US.
Yeah Elon's so worried about sexual abuse that he's best pals with Trump. I don't know what has really started all this off but I doubt that Elon's concern is sincere.
I think it is sincere. Again you're looking at this from a party political, jaded British perspective. Tell someone who has never heard of this scandal that over a period of 20-30 years between 250,000 and 500,000 children were raped in the UK by Muslim men and those rapes were covered up and the victims silenced by the British police and government authorities and they'd be pretty fucking angry about it, then tell them that those people who covered it up got away with it and many are still in those positions of power and they'll be apoplectic with rage.
Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.
The BBC's over-U.S. focus gets ever more egregious
Three out of four of tonight's headline TV news were essentially U.S. news, or U.S domestic news. Bad weather in the U.K, bad weather about to be a problem in the U.S. Musk's views on Trump, and live from the Golden Globes, from Hollywood tonight. No wonder Musk thinks he has an automatic right to interfere here
What a smallminded attitude that only British stories should get focus, though almost all of those have a British connection. Farage is British and there are many British nominees for the Golden Globes. Is it not newsworthy? How many British nominees would there need to be to make the story domestic enough for you?
To calm things down, I am watching an episode of Netflix's Chef's Table, with the Indian Chef Gaggan Anand, who created the "number 1 restaurant in Asia" - according to Restaurant Magazine's infamous top 50/100 etc
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
My uncle once had a seafood starter that was so off that he collapsed in minutes, and an ambulance was called because everyone assumed he'd had a heart attack. The place was closed done a few months later when it was discovered they'd been storing all their food in an unrefrigerated shed.
Keep them coming! It takes something to relegate abscess noshing to runner up.
A friend of mine at University once used the sink for vomiting and the toilet for diarrhoea at the same time. Such are small bathrooms.
The BBC's over-U.S. focus gets ever more egregious
Three out of four of tonight's headline TV news were essentially U.S. news, or U.S domestic news. Bad weather in the U.K, bad weather about to be a problem in the U.S. Musk's views on Trump, and live from the Golden Globes, from Hollywood tonight. No wonder Musk thinks he has an automatic right to interfere here
Comments
Equally the Chagos islands appear to be a very bad political move...
In so many cases they decided the victims were scum and didn't need help.
Iain Owens, 45, Elaine Lannery, 39, Lesley Williams, 42, Paul Brannan, 40, Scott Forbes, 50, Barry Watson and John Clark, both 47, had denied all of the allegations against them but were found guilty after a nine-week trial at the High Court in Glasgow.
All seven were convicted of sexual abuse - including rape - with Owens, Lannery, Brannan and Williams also being found guilty of attempting to murder a child by pushing her into a microwave and trapping her in other places.
The Sky News reporting gets more graphic: https://news.sky.com/story/seven-members-of-paedophile-gang-guilty-of-running-monstrous-child-sex-abuse-ring-13008082
Horrendous acts are committed by people of all ethnicities and cultures. They way to stop this is not to demonise a particular ethnic group while ignoring the evils committed by others.
I know Gaggan, he's a dude and a laugh (loves a drink). His food CAN be genuinely amazing. I had no idea he was from such a poor background. Even more reason to admire him
However Ihave to say one night I went there in Bangkok and he did a special dinner - invented on the spot - for a bunch of us friends, hacks, flint knappers, and one dish was so disgusting and poisonous I crapped myself for days, got a thrombosed heammerhoid thereby, and spent ten weeks in crippling agony, with dogs leaping up at my bleeding arse, to add to the humuliation
Is that the worst restaurant experience of any PB-er? Can anyone outdo that?
Edit: but whatever, I do hope the canal gets repaired.
You don't get into fisticuffs with ruffians wearing a morning suit. One dresses for the occasion.
I hate to say it, and I know you’d absolutely love it, but the big area for the Tories if they’re so inclined is climate change scepticism, Australian style. Policies to increase fossil fuel subsidies and slash renewables investment, at the same time as cutting fuel duty. It would promise a short term sugar rush in an area Reform aren’t so bothered about because it’s not about race.
This is futile, and makes you look idiotic. And you may not be the brightest spark in the world, or even that middlebrow, but you are not stupid
But where we are now is that an awful lot of these child rape gangs are behind bars. How does Musk think he can read sentencing remarks if they've not been sentenced?
You have one glass of prosecco and basically you're an unreliable witness/victim.
Which is why, again, IIRC, there is provision to close off sections of the canal for repair, quite frequently along its length.
For everyone else my I refer you to picture 17 to see the "bath"
And it ain't just Republicans in the USA. Look at the comments page on the liberal New York Times. Look at forums in France, Holland, Italy, Spain, Australia
They have all suddenly seen this, and grimaced with repulsion. Our national repuation is in the fucking toilet
I think you win with your first effort
Nothing can beat that except actual death (and I hope no one can beat that). Bravo! As it were....
If it wasn't for@Starkdawning, you would win
"Eating an abscess" is right up there
OMG!
I haven't worn a shoe like that since my uni days.
Now even that sense of superiority is being taken away from them. It's like a cultural Suez Crisis.
I was talking to an American about all of this controversy at lunch today and he put it in perspective for me as to why it's blowing up in the US and why Tommy Robinson is seen as a "freedom fighter" rather than a far right nut. He says that Americans haven't previously heard of the rape gang scandal/coverup, they aren't as jaded with the British establishment as we are so their anger around the thought of 250,000 girls being raped over two decades with no action taken by the authorities under the guise of not wanting to be seen as racist has captured everyone's attention. Not just on the right wing but among liberals like him too, who see similar policies in liberal cities and now think twice about having the concept of "protected people/culture" or having any single culture above criticism as Muslim culture has become in the UK. He said they only see whatever Robinson and his supporters put on YT about the rape gangs over the past 10 years and suddenly everything he's been saying seems prophetic and his imprisonment looks like the state attempting to silence him over these videos.
He suggested that it simply doesn't compute to any American that the systematic rape of young girls by a group of people can be overlooked by law enforcement. He pointed out that the catholic church in the US has had it's reckoning and one of the reasons why it carried on for so long was that the church made a lot of effort to hide and cover everything up internally so there was no chance of external investigations by police or the FBI. What he said that has made the US public so confused is that the authorities looked the other way after being told by numerous people that this was happening at a huge scale in northern cities.
...
To put this in context, it's like the whole world watched the Mr Bates docudrama, in one weekend, except this was about the rape of 100,000 underage British girls, not 60 subpostmasters wrongly convicted
The UK is standing shivering and alone and ashamed, and the planet is pointing at us with derision and disgust. Giving away Diego Garcia is not gonna cut it
site:vf.politicalbetting.com "FrankBooth"
plus any further keywords you want.
I know a little about this, having done similar in the past in culverts. They've put the stop planks in, then put sheeting behind it, and are dropping one-tonne bags of fine aggregate in an attempt to stop the canal. Which confuses me: we would always use clay (ideally in the form of wet (unfired) bricks). Though that would require people getting into the culvert to lay them out. Which was a fun job. If you could not get people in, then bags of clay would be placed.
ISTR Brunel 'fixed' a hole in the Thames Tunnel by dropping bags of clay into the breach from a boat.
The problem with using relatively fine aggregate is that it will get washed away if the bags get holes in them, or water overtops them.
He spoke about police corruption and organised crime as a fact of life in US cities which is quite similar in that people external to the US would be horrified to learn that in big cities 20-30% of police were on the take at one point. He compared that with what seems to be our systemic issue of rape gangs in UK cities and pointed out that in the US there was/is a personal gain element to being in the payroll of organised crime which motivates those people in the police or government organisations to look the other way, he doesn't understand (and he said this is probably the biggest point of confusion for Americans) what these police officers and other people in government had to gain by looking the other way. There doesn't seem to be a big paper trail of corrupt payments by these rape gangs to police and government officials so what was in it for them, is the big question that in America.
Finally, he said to me that he'd be surprised if this is a UK specific problem, he's of the opinion that these kinds of rape gangs will be rife all across Europe operating under similar circumstances in many countries, I think he's probably right.
One problem that for all their other faults the French don’t suffer. It’s like Blair and Bush all over again.
Basically, we are humiliated. Our only choice is to face up to it. I hope Starmer sees this, with his speech
A source close to her told the newspaper: “Tulip’s previous understanding of how she gained ownership of the property has changed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/05/investigate-tulip-siddiq-dictator-links-say-tory-mps/
Perhaps regional votes on fracking. I want fracking and believe it will come but it definitely doesn't unite the Tory Party.
I had a feeling that Farage was not going to survive long as Reform party head. He lacks the ability to be a true leader who inspires others. The Reform party is now being run partly from the USA and they are ruthless in making sure you have the right people in place. Farage will be moved possibly into the chairman role.
I am surprised that the PB contributors dont understand the power of Tommy Robinson in UK politics. Outside the UK he is seen as a Nelson Mandela who is a political prisoner because he can rally the masses. I watched his movie and saw nothing wrong with it. It is crazy that he is being locked up in a maximum security jail for making a documentary. He is not a saint but he has more charisma than the whole of the Labour front bench. I cannot fathom the comments of contributors such as Malmesbury. Tommy saw his sister becoming addicted to drugs by a Muslim gang and then raped by her pusher. You want to criticise him for speaking out?!
I used to live in Oxford as a teenager only 100 yards from a care home at the centre of a major CSE scandal and half a mile from the guest house used for most of the crimes. This scandal was the worst crime committed in Oxford for the last 40 years and still scars the town. The politicians on all sides underestimate the trauma inflicted.
Our country is weak at the moment and getting weaker by the day. The business community of which I am part of is not going to save Starmer and we are enjoying watching him squirm. If you ask us who do we support Trump / Musk or Starmer the answer is clear.
I am wondering if any of the 3 leaders will be left by the end of 2025.
Haven’t we?
I would have gone with put a couple of the boards in. Then back with bags of shingle - the giant bags you crane in. When that is settled, another board and build the wall of shingle bags higher - you'd also make the wall of shingle thicker as it gets higher.
Some other coverage of Rotherham recently includes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyly0rdyz0o
https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2024-06-05/rotherham-grooming-scandal-seven-men-convicted-of-abusing-girls
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rotherham-child-abuse-operation-stovewood-sentence-b2551406.html
https://news.sky.com/story/rotherham-child-abuse-gang-leader-sentenced-for-further-rape-of-young-girl-13142736
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/sep/06/rotherham-man-jailed-nine-years-longest-sentence-summer-riots
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13847393/Rotherham-grooming-gang-plied-girls-young-11-drugs-alcohol-raping-jailed-total-106-years.html
The explanation is that you are not very good at judging what stories are being covered, but have already made your mind up as to the answer.
Now we look like some grotesque version of a dystopian Somalia, with 100,000-1,000,000 raped underage kids, and an entire Liberal elite class that ignored it, or actually enabled it, and then covered it up, and over decades. In my opinion, it is the worst scandal to hit any western nation in the post war era. It was always lurking, now Musk has made sure the iceberg has met the Titanic
Can you imagine any British politician daring to lecture anyone else, around the world, after this?
https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1875637006405136433
On the recent convictions in Rotherham, not historic cases, the only journalist present for the sentencing was Charlie Peters from GB News. The entire legacy media did not want to know about it.
Perhaps you don't think another child sex scandal in Rotherham was newsworthy?
A useful comment. I am glad you are able to spell the word satire correctly. Congratulations !! You must be very proud
When those cases with those disgusting men raping their daughters/sons/nieces/nephews came to light charges were brought and they got locked up, the failure there a lot of the time was among other family members not coming forwards to make those reports and children feeling unable to do so, however when those reports are made action is usually taken and investigations made. The difference here is that those actions and investigations never happened, those rapists were allowed to continue with impunity even after reports were made to the police and other people in authority.
Do you see the difference, people understand that the rapists are awful and clearly need to be locked up and I'm glad that there has been action to do so over the last decade (though not nearly enough and sentences haven't been anywhere near tough enough). What we need answers on are the systemic coverups that seemingly cut across all parts of the state. What drove these ordinary people who probably were decent in their daily lives to turn a blind eye to the suffering of these girls and allow these rapists to continue and how many of them are still operating in children's services, how do we change that culture of valuing cultural harmony higher than the kids who were being raped? These are questions that need answers.
White kids. mostly those in the care system, have been appallingly left to the wolves for decades, and exploited by white men....it seems to be only the Asian connection now that stokes your vile hatred....
Another question would be why are there so few Asian, teenage girls in the care system that suffer this same kind of abuse?....we talk about a lot about honour stuff in relation to Asian girls, but their kids are not left languishing unprotected in the care system...
Three out of four of tonight's headline TV news were essentially U.S. news,
or U.S domestic news. Bad weather in the U.K, bad weather about to be a problem in the U.S. Musk's views on Trump, and live from the Golden Globes, from Hollywood tonight. No wonder Musk thinks he has an automatic right to interfere here
That was the September 2024 sentencing. They may not have had a reporter in court, but the BBC covered that at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyly0rdyz0o
The Yorkshire Post covered it at https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/courts/cruel-and-manipulative-seven-rotherham-men-jailed-after-committing-some-of-the-worst-offending-against-children-4782667
The Daily Mail covered it at https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13847393/Rotherham-grooming-gang-plied-girls-young-11-drugs-alcohol-raping-jailed-total-106-years.html
etc.
https://thecritic.co.uk/why-was-i-the-only-reporter/
Look at the case from the outside in and think about just how fucked up it all was. I have no doubt that Elon Musk is sincere in his concern, I don't think he's got a very good handle on who can bring change on this and how to go about forcing through change on this subject and making an unwilling establishment which doesn't want the finger pointed at it's own culture as the point of failure. The amount of institutional resistance to this is absolutely massive.