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History today – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,218
edited December 22 in General
History today – politicalbetting.com

As 2025 approaches, we asked the public to tell us in their own words what has been the single most significant historical event to have occurred since 1 January 20001. Covid: 26%2. 9/11: 24%3. Queen dying: 11%4. Ukraine war: 7%5. Brexit: 5%https://t.co/XNYRKP1Xym pic.twitter.com/vG9aLJCY2B

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Comments

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    First like Usyk.

    Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    edited December 22
    Second time post, which is an important one.

    Quite an important piece from the BBC, about Russia murdering ("executing") Ukrainian POWs.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7ve11lr247o

    Anyone who follows knows the story, but it's good to see some more generally prominent coverage.
  • Tyson Fury attacks a Ukrainian, and people are literally cheering him on. Once again, the rich and famous can get away with anything. It's a disgrace

    https://x.com/BristOliver/status/1870606580695339371
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    A good piece on the absurd WASPI campaign from the New Statesman

    https://youtu.be/TxnmMl7-k7E?si=LeTLzXHPnBvAiXZY
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    edited December 22
    The events are interconnected, but I would also say the 2008 GFC, as it turned people against their incumbent governments, setting off a lot of unfortunate events.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    9/11 wasn't all that significant in itself. It was one terrorist event amongst many. But the fallout was massive.

    The queen's death the most significant event of the past 24 years - is ludicrous.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Tyson Fury attacks a Ukrainian, and people are literally cheering him on. Once again, the rich and famous can get away with anything. It's a disgrace

    https://x.com/BristOliver/status/1870606580695339371

    But as usual the Ukranian prevails.

    One good quote from last night:

    Think for how many years British boxing fans talked about Joshua v Fury as the dream fight, well guess who beat both of them - twice.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    My vote would go for the rise of China, but that isn't a point in time event so may not count.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/12/12/trump-says-vehemently-disagrees-us-missiles-ukraine-russia/

    Trump to reverse decision to allow Ukraine to use long-range missiles against Russia.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    On topic, I’d have technological development in 3rd place behind the top two in the poll, and, as @FF43 says above, the changing geopolitics and the rise of China probably in 4th.
  • Odd to think that at the end of 2024, we are already a quarter of the way through the 21st Century.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    MattW said:

    Second time post, which is an important one.

    Quite an important piece from the BBC, about Russia murdering ("executing") Ukrainian POWs.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7ve11lr247o

    Anyone who follows knows the story, but it's good to see some more generally prominent coverage.

    The really stupid thing from Russia is the simultaneous view that Ukranians are not a real people but rather misguided Russians,and their genocidal campaign against what they see as their own. It makes no sense at all.

    Nothing has more cemented the Ukranians national identity and view that they are not Russians, and that their future lies with the rest of Europe more than the actions of the invaders.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915
    This might sound weird, but I think the great financial crash of 2008 has a branding problem. 9/11 and the Covid pandemic have simple, universally used names, in the same way that the Wall Street Crash and the Great Depression did. Or events like Bloody Sunday and Black Wednesday.

    The economic calamity of 2008 has been known by various names - the credit crunch, the subprime crisis, the very anodyne and non-specific "great financial crash". No single name has stuck, and so the specific event slips from the collective consciousness, although I agree with TSE on its paramount importance.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968

    Odd to think that at the end of 2024, we are already a quarter of the way through the 21st Century.

    We've had a pandemic and a financial crisis, and have something of a Cold War right now (hot in Ukraine, of course). Hopefully we don't continue the 20th century re-enactment...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I’d have technological development in 3rd place behind the top two in the poll, and, as @FF43 says above, the changing geopolitics and the rise of China probably in 4th.

    In terms of its impact on us all and the way it has changed society out of all recognition you would have to say the invention of the smartphone is probably the most significant change since 2000.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Betting Post

    F1: just had a small sum on Lawson, boosted each way on Ladbrokes at 29 to win in Australia.

    The car matters most. In the first five races of 2024 Perez was 2nd three times and 3rd once. Yes, Australia was their iffy track, but that was a bit weird (2023 Singapore was the same and in 2024 Verstappen did perfectly well, finishing 2nd to Norris there).
  • Odd to think that at the end of 2024, we are already a quarter of the way through the 21st Century.

    We've had a pandemic and a financial crisis, and have something of a Cold War right now (hot in Ukraine, of course). Hopefully we don't continue the 20th century re-enactment...
    Roaring twenties. You want to be long us stocks for the next four years.

  • https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/12/12/trump-says-vehemently-disagrees-us-missiles-ukraine-russia/

    Trump to reverse decision to allow Ukraine to use long-range missiles against Russia.

    Trump is a surrender monkey.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Second time post, which is an important one.

    Quite an important piece from the BBC, about Russia murdering ("executing") Ukrainian POWs.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7ve11lr247o

    Anyone who follows knows the story, but it's good to see some more generally prominent coverage.

    The really stupid thing from Russia is the simultaneous view that Ukranians are not a real people but rather misguided Russians,and their genocidal campaign against what they see as their own. It makes no sense at all.

    Nothing has more cemented the Ukranians national identity and view that they are not Russians, and that their future lies with the rest of Europe more than the actions of the invaders.
    It’s a very odd form of racial hatred.
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I’d have technological development in 3rd place behind the top two in the poll, and, as @FF43 says above, the changing geopolitics and the rise of China probably in 4th.

    I think you could make the case for the rise of the smartphone and social media. This was pretty much at the same time as the GFC. A lot of downward trends in social isolation, obesity, mental health, fertility and the degradation of political discussion begin there.

    (He says, typing on his smartphone...)
    Social media is an addiction (I’m an addict).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/12/12/trump-says-vehemently-disagrees-us-missiles-ukraine-russia/

    Trump to reverse decision to allow Ukraine to use long-range missiles against Russia.

    Trump is a surrender monkey.
    Cheese eating or whine grizzling?
  • ydoethur said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/12/12/trump-says-vehemently-disagrees-us-missiles-ukraine-russia/

    Trump to reverse decision to allow Ukraine to use long-range missiles against Russia.

    Trump is a surrender monkey.
    Cheese eating or whine grizzling?
    There's nothing that Trump like more than a good whine.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915
    FF43 said:

    9/11 wasn't all that significant in itself. It was one terrorist event amongst many. But the fallout was massive.

    The queen's death the most significant event of the past 24 years - is ludicrous.

    The scale of 9/11 was large. 2,996 deaths compared to 3,720 over the many decades of the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

    But I think we can now see, with the Taliban back in charge in Afghanistan, that the impact from 9/11 has now largely dissipated.
  • How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915
    FF43 said:

    My vote would go for the rise of China, but that isn't a point in time event so may not count.

    I think you can tie that into the economic difficulty of 2008, which caused much more trouble for the West than for China, which enjoyed the Beijing Olympics that year.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited December 22

    How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    I brought this up a few weeks ago, questioning was it really all about property. I think the answer is most definitely yes. I presume the old sale and lease back tactic of asset strippers e.g. what the Americans wanted to buy Morrisons for, where by all these prime locations in places like London will be sold for housing, the units on retail parks sold and lease back, etc, until it finally all goes tits up with no assets left on the books only huge liabilities.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    A small cycling forum is closing down due to the online safety bill coming in.

    Could this be one of many to come ahead of this law coming in.

    https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    Just thinking about Mr Dancer's comparison to the twentieth century, what would people in 1925 have picked as the most important moment so far? Probably either one aspect of the outbreak of WW1 or the Armistice.

    But in the longer term, that accolade would surely have to go to the development of powered aircraft, which began either in 1903 with the Wright brothers or with either Brazilian or German pioneers (depending on what you call a 'powered aircraft' and which account you believe). That changed the whole planet in innumerable dramatic ways, including its weather systems.

    I wonder if we're also overlooking something because the pandemic, 9/11 and financial crises are all blocking our view. Answer - very probably, but we won't know what it is (and I do hope that's not triggered a certain Multiple ID poster).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145

    How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    It's the only way to finance our trade deficit, other than cutting consumption and saving more.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    edited December 22
    Taz said:

    A good piece on the absurd WASPI campaign from the New Statesman

    https://youtu.be/TxnmMl7-k7E?si=LeTLzXHPnBvAiXZY

    It might have been absurd but Labour backed it all the way until it was on their doorstep. Theabsurd Angela Rayner with her promise...

    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/Wv61pmtwjARPfoum/
  • Foxy said:

    How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    It's the only way to finance our trade deficit, other than cutting consumption and saving more.
    Trouble is, apart from the one-off sale price, it exacerbates our trade deficit.
  • How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    So what? Its a private firm, no more special than Amazon or Yodel or any other of the plethora of delivery firms that exist.

    Assets will go abroad for as long as we run a trade deficit.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049

    Taz said:

    A good piece on the absurd WASPI campaign from the New Statesman

    https://youtu.be/TxnmMl7-k7E?si=LeTLzXHPnBvAiXZY

    It might have been absurd but Labour backed it all the way until it was on their doorstep. Theabsurd Angela Rayner with her promise...

    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/Wv61pmtwjARPfoum/
    Exactly the point made by George Eaton in that piece.
  • How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    So what? Its a private firm, no more special than Amazon or Yodel or any other of the plethora of delivery firms that exist.

    Assets will go abroad for as long as we run a trade deficit.
    You have cause and effect the wrong way round, and also have misunderstood the relevance of its being a private firm, which is only that it can be sold.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    A good piece on the absurd WASPI campaign from the New Statesman

    https://youtu.be/TxnmMl7-k7E?si=LeTLzXHPnBvAiXZY

    It might have been absurd but Labour backed it all the way until it was on their doorstep. Theabsurd Angela Rayner with her promise...

    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/Wv61pmtwjARPfoum/
    Exactly the point made by George Eaton in that piece.
    Thanks . I hadn't read the piece but nice to know I am in concordance with the writer.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915

    How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    So what? Its a private firm, no more special than Amazon or Yodel or any other of the plethora of delivery firms that exist.

    Assets will go abroad for as long as we run a trade deficit.
    You have cause and effect the wrong way round, and also have misunderstood the relevance of its being a private firm, which is only that it can be sold.
    Running a trade deficit weakens the pound, which makes British assets cheaper for foreign capital to buy, which leads to asset sales.

    What have I got wrong?
  • How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    So what? Its a private firm, no more special than Amazon or Yodel or any other of the plethora of delivery firms that exist.

    Assets will go abroad for as long as we run a trade deficit.
    You have cause and effect the wrong way round, and also have misunderstood the relevance of its being a private firm, which is only that it can be sold.
    I don't have cause and effect the wrong way round, its all interconnected.

    If you want assets to flow into this country, rather than out of it, we need to save more than we spend.

    Yes its a vicious circle as assets going abroad mean we then need to pay rent/profits abroad which aggravates the deficit, but that is a consequence of the prior deficits just as interest is a consequence of prior deficits.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,712
    It's not a bad list.

    I agree that the GFC is too low, and the rise of China - whilst not an "event" - is hugely significant.

    I'd definitely put 9/11 ahead of Covid. The former was horrifying terror that forever changed how we do things.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    So what? Its a private firm, no more special than Amazon or Yodel or any other of the plethora of delivery firms that exist.

    Assets will go abroad for as long as we run a trade deficit.
    You have cause and effect the wrong way round, and also have misunderstood the relevance of its being a private firm, which is only that it can be sold.
    Running a trade deficit weakens the pound, which makes British assets cheaper for foreign capital to buy, which leads to asset sales.

    What have I got wrong?
    Yes exports need to rise and imports need to fall, otherwise the only way the books balance is with capital injections from overseas.

    Perhaps building a million new student housing units and boarding school places reserved for overseas students is the way to go.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,136
    edited December 22
    If anybody wants to see where the nanny state leads, this video contains a fascinating if horrifying clip of a petty Chinese official trying to bully a single man into having children. From 9:24 for about three minutes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR5F_8dSjOw

    "Have a kid or we'll demolish your house" - it should be mandatory viewing for anyone tempted by socialism or other totalitarian ideologies.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395
    ydoethur said:

    Just thinking about Mr Dancer's comparison to the twentieth century, what would people in 1925 have picked as the most important moment so far? Probably either one aspect of the outbreak of WW1 or the Armistice.

    But in the longer term, that accolade would surely have to go to the development of powered aircraft, which began either in 1903 with the Wright brothers or with either Brazilian or German pioneers (depending on what you call a 'powered aircraft' and which account you believe). That changed the whole planet in innumerable dramatic ways, including its weather systems.

    I wonder if we're also overlooking something because the pandemic, 9/11 and financial crises are all blocking our view. Answer - very probably, but we won't know what it is (and I do hope that's not triggered a certain Multiple ID poster).

    The sort of thing that is coming out from the research scientists on the effects on the human brain and society, I'm surprised social media are not on the list of the poll at all. But maybe that is a process not an event.
  • Taz said:

    A small cycling forum is closing down due to the online safety bill coming in.

    Could this be one of many to come ahead of this law coming in.

    https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/

    Could this similarly affect PB?
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,314
    I'd go for the GFC - I think Brexit, Trump, and the rise of right-wing populism can be tracked back to it. The idea the ordinary working man bailed out the bankers, none of whom were punished for helping cause the crisis, and has been worse off since has fuelled populism.
  • Looks like DeSantis has said No to the Trump family:

    Lara Trump, daughter-in-law of US President-elect Donald Trump, has withdrawn her name from consideration for a seat in the Senate.

    She stepped down this month as co-chairwoman of the Republican National Committee (RNC), fuelling speculation that she might replace outgoing Senator Marco Rubio, a Florida Republican, whom Trump has nominated for secretary of state.

    But in a post on X, she said she had removed herself from consideration "after an incredible amount of thought, contemplation, and encouragement from so many".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20npx58nnxo
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    I was about to go for the 2008 financial crisis but when I told my wife that she said, "of course you would, it plays to your interests."

    Which is spot on, as usual, and rather shows the pointlessness of this kind of polling. Covid and 9/11 both changed the world in different ways too, neither for the better sadly, but trying hard to set aside my bias, I still think 2008 changed our world more than anything else. If only our political class would stop pretending otherwise. It was, in many ways, the point where Keynesian economics ran out of road.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Taz said:

    A small cycling forum is closing down due to the online safety bill coming in.

    Could this be one of many to come ahead of this law coming in.

    https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/

    Could this similarly affect PB?
    That came up 2 or 3 days back - not criticising you, not at all, just that it arose in passing and could be easily missed. Main nub of it was that 'private' option is being disabled so the mods can easily check previous posts (but our emails are still concealed); and, more generally, some of us have to behave ourselves more when making accusations about identifiable persons.

    Maybe we ned a header when the mods and OGH have had a chance to consider it all.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Taz said:

    A small cycling forum is closing down due to the online safety bill coming in.

    Could this be one of many to come ahead of this law coming in.

    https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/

    It’s almost certain that the CPS and police will attempt to establish legal precedent as quickly as possible, using small forums and message boards.

    They’ll then use that precedent to go after Facebook, Google, and X.

    They really don’t want the test cases and appeals to be against companies with unlimited legal budgets and a point to prove, they want the law to be ‘settled’ within a year or two.

    It will be interesting to see if Zuckerberg and Musk see what’s coming, and get their lawyers lined up behind those early test cases.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937

    Taz said:

    A good piece on the absurd WASPI campaign from the New Statesman

    https://youtu.be/TxnmMl7-k7E?si=LeTLzXHPnBvAiXZY

    It might have been absurd but Labour backed it all the way until it was on their doorstep. The absurd Angela Rayner with her promise...

    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/Wv61pmtwjARPfoum/
    That's 2019, 2 elections ago and X Prime Ministers ago.

    It wasn't in the 2024 Manifesto.

    (And no - that's not support for Rayner.)
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    A small cycling forum is closing down due to the online safety bill coming in.

    Could this be one of many to come ahead of this law coming in.

    https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/

    It’s almost certain that the CPS and police will attempt to establish legal precedent as quickly as possible, using small forums and message boards.

    They’ll then use that precedent to go after Facebook, Google, and X.

    They really don’t want the test cases and appeals to be against companies with unlimited legal budgets and a point to prove, they want the law to be ‘settled’ within a year or two.

    It will be interesting to see if Zuckerberg and Musk see what’s coming, and get their lawyers lined up behind those early test cases.
    Will I still be able to say that Angela Rayner is an absurd politician?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,265
    ydoethur said:

    Just thinking about Mr Dancer's comparison to the twentieth century, what would people in 1925 have picked as the most important moment so far? Probably either one aspect of the outbreak of WW1 or the Armistice.

    But in the longer term, that accolade would surely have to go to the development of powered aircraft, which began either in 1903 with the Wright brothers or with either Brazilian or German pioneers (depending on what you call a 'powered aircraft' and which account you believe). That changed the whole planet in innumerable dramatic ways, including its weather systems.

    I wonder if we're also overlooking something because the pandemic, 9/11 and financial crises are all blocking our view. Answer - very probably, but we won't know what it is (and I do hope that's not triggered a certain Multiple ID poster).

    The annoying thing is that he'd almost certainly be right.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    A small cycling forum is closing down due to the online safety bill coming in.

    Could this be one of many to come ahead of this law coming in.

    https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/

    It’s almost certain that the CPS and police will attempt to establish legal precedent as quickly as possible, using small forums and message boards.

    They’ll then use that precedent to go after Facebook, Google, and X.

    They really don’t want the test cases and appeals to be against companies with unlimited legal budgets and a point to prove, they want the law to be ‘settled’ within a year or two.

    It will be interesting to see if Zuckerberg and Musk see what’s coming, and get their lawyers lined up behind those early test cases.
    Will I still be able to say that Angela Rayner is an absurd politician?
    Find a specialist lawyer and pay for an opinion.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Sandpit said:

    How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    So what? Its a private firm, no more special than Amazon or Yodel or any other of the plethora of delivery firms that exist.

    Assets will go abroad for as long as we run a trade deficit.
    You have cause and effect the wrong way round, and also have misunderstood the relevance of its being a private firm, which is only that it can be sold.
    Running a trade deficit weakens the pound, which makes British assets cheaper for foreign capital to buy, which leads to asset sales.

    What have I got wrong?
    Yes exports need to rise and imports need to fall, otherwise the only way the books balance is with capital injections from overseas.

    Perhaps building a million new student housing units and boarding school places reserved for overseas students is the way to go.
    Only if we can fill them. We have an ongoing crisis at Dundee University which has seen the departure of our Principal "with immediate effect". There are a variety of reasons for this, and Dundee is very far from alone, but gearing up on student accommodation into a headwind of falling international numbers is a major factor.
  • How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    So what? Its a private firm, no more special than Amazon or Yodel or any other of the plethora of delivery firms that exist.

    Assets will go abroad for as long as we run a trade deficit.
    You have cause and effect the wrong way round, and also have misunderstood the relevance of its being a private firm, which is only that it can be sold.
    I don't have cause and effect the wrong way round, its all interconnected.

    If you want assets to flow into this country, rather than out of it, we need to save more than we spend.

    Yes its a vicious circle as assets going abroad mean we then need to pay rent/profits abroad which aggravates the deficit, but that is a consequence of the prior deficits just as interest is a consequence of prior deficits.
    Cause and Effect are the major misunderstanding of almost all interpretations of history since probably the 1840s.

    They lead to the imagination of a chain of intention and even a deliberate chain of responsibility.

    Things happened and because they happened other things happened. There is no chain of intention. History is a series of independent events and their dependent consequences, events and consequences.

    Let us take an example. The UK has the most dangerous deluded ruler for several hundred years, fact. By cause and effect then logically you go back to AJP Taylor as the cause of Keir Starmer being Prime Minister. No in a free and fairish election Labour party candidates got more votes than their opponents in over 400 seats. That is the only cause of him being PM. A disaster, yes, but not the fault of AJP Taylor, objectionable as he undeniably was.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    So what? Its a private firm, no more special than Amazon or Yodel or any other of the plethora of delivery firms that exist.

    Assets will go abroad for as long as we run a trade deficit.
    You have cause and effect the wrong way round, and also have misunderstood the relevance of its being a private firm, which is only that it can be sold.
    Running a trade deficit weakens the pound, which makes British assets cheaper for foreign capital to buy, which leads to asset sales.

    What have I got wrong?
    Yes exports need to rise and imports need to fall, otherwise the only way the books balance is with capital injections from overseas.

    Perhaps building a million new student housing units and boarding school places reserved for overseas students is the way to go.
    Only if we can fill them. We have an ongoing crisis at Dundee University which has seen the departure of our Principal "with immediate effect". There are a variety of reasons for this, and Dundee is very far from alone, but gearing up on student accommodation into a headwind of falling international numbers is a major factor.
    Well if they can’t fill the places, it usually means the price is too high and/or their marketing isn’t good enough.

    I’ll take a guess that they put all of their eggs in the Chinese and Russian baskets, only for those countries to go horribly tits-up.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,136
    edited December 22

    How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    So what? Its a private firm, no more special than Amazon or Yodel or any other of the plethora of delivery firms that exist.

    Assets will go abroad for as long as we run a trade deficit.
    You have cause and effect the wrong way round, and also have misunderstood the relevance of its being a private firm, which is only that it can be sold.
    Running a trade deficit weakens the pound, which makes British assets cheaper for foreign capital to buy, which leads to asset sales.

    What have I got wrong?
    It's much more complicated than that, because it depends on the type of asset and also expectations.

    Without going into too much detail, you need to differentiate between financial and non-financial assets. Financial assets, like a company or a bond, are those held for the stream of cashflows that will ultimately result, and if the pound falls, the asset will be cheaper, but the stream of cashflows will also be worth less. So the asset will be neither more nor less attractive to foreigners overall.

    And, more importantly, if the pound is projected to continue to fall, the future stream of cashflows will fall in value more than the immediate reduction in the asset price, so the asset will actually be LESS not more attractive to foreigners.

    So much for financial assets. If we're talking about non-financial assets like fine art or a house you're going to live in, of course you will spot bargains when the exchange rate falls, unless you expect it to fall further. But they're a very small part of the total in practice - most assets by value that are bought across borders are financial.

    Incidentally, trade flows don't impact the value of the currency much compared to financial flows, which are set by interest rates and interest rate expectations. The very basic undergraduate models were made in the 1930s and postwar when financial flows were much smaller than today. We've been running a trade deficit for decades, but the pound now is roughly where it was in trade weighted terms in 2010. Japan has been running a trade surplus for decades, but the yen is notably weak. The US has been running a deficit even longer than we have but the dollar is strong. But ours and America's economies are expected to have higher long-term growth than Japan's, which will lead to higher expected interest rates which will lead to stronger currencies, whatever the trade numbers show.

    OK, Sunday morning economics lesson over. But it's always a delight to recall my international economics classes from decades back ...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    F1: excitingly, second Podcast episode is up, looking back at the midfield. Starts with the stand-alone teams of Aston Martin, Williams, and Sauber, but two-thirds is the battle for sixth between RB, Haas, and Alpine. I'll put the transcript and some lovely graphs up soon on the blog.

    https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/undercutters-ep2-f1-2024-midfield-battle/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Dura_Ace said:

    That Covid result must be conditioned by recency. It was nowhere near as significant 9/11 which was the End of the End of History.

    9/11 was certainly the most significant day of my life. I was having coffee in the Dirty Shirt Mess somewhere off the coast of India when all of a sudden all of the dept. heads disappeared into the carrier's CIC and didn't come out. Our boss was actually in the air at the time. He landed, went into the CIC still wearing full survival rig without saying anything. The tension was phenomenal. I can still remember every detail of that day like it was yesterday.

    Covid, was incidental in comparison. I did loads of DIY and ignored all of the rapidly changing and ultimately stupid rules.

    Didn't your mum die from Covid?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    A small cycling forum is closing down due to the online safety bill coming in.

    Could this be one of many to come ahead of this law coming in.

    https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/

    It’s almost certain that the CPS and police will attempt to establish legal precedent as quickly as possible, using small forums and message boards.

    They’ll then use that precedent to go after Facebook, Google, and X.

    They really don’t want the test cases and appeals to be against companies with unlimited legal budgets and a point to prove, they want the law to be ‘settled’ within a year or two.

    It will be interesting to see if Zuckerberg and Musk see what’s coming, and get their lawyers lined up behind those early test cases.
    Will I still be able to say that Angela Rayner is an absurd politician?
    Find a specialist lawyer and pay for an opinion.
    I’m sure Carter-F*** will give you an hour of a media barrister’s time for only a few grand.

    (If the big tech giants had any sense, they’d put every specialist media barrister in London on a retainer, therefore preventing the CPS from instructing them because of a conflict of interest).
  • Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A small cycling forum is closing down due to the online safety bill coming in.

    Could this be one of many to come ahead of this law coming in.

    https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/

    Could this similarly affect PB?
    That came up 2 or 3 days back - not criticising you, not at all, just that it arose in passing and could be easily missed. Main nub of it was that 'private' option is being disabled so the mods can easily check previous posts (but our emails are still concealed); and, more generally, some of us have to behave ourselves more when making accusations about identifiable persons.

    Maybe we ned a header when the mods and OGH have had a chance to consider it all.
    Ah, I saw the discussion about private profiles but missed what prompted it. Thanks.

    That link indicated there was an onerous amount of admin and management for those runnjng/moderating online forums. Risk assessments, trained moderators etc.

    The Internet is proving very hard to manage/contain /police - there's such a lot of good stuff but attempts to control the downsides, eg scams, fake news, illegal/immoral content, etc inevitably impact on all the good stuff.

    It's a worry that smaller websites might be targeted by law enforcement in order to show that the new laws are working, while the big companies that can afford legal assistance are left largely unfettered, and potentially meantime the dark underworld parts of the ineternet just carry on as normal.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    On the header, as a hinge point in history I'd put 9/11 at the top internationally, because it lead to the War on Terror and all the associated abuses, which have massively damaged the value of the post-WW2 settlement. Plus destroying any moral authority of the West.

    For the UK, for the same criterion I'd say the death of QEII, as it marks the end of an era for a lot of countries.

    IMO Brexit and the Ukraine War cannot really be assessed yet.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    edited December 22
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just thinking about Mr Dancer's comparison to the twentieth century, what would people in 1925 have picked as the most important moment so far? Probably either one aspect of the outbreak of WW1 or the Armistice.

    But in the longer term, that accolade would surely have to go to the development of powered aircraft, which began either in 1903 with the Wright brothers or with either Brazilian or German pioneers (depending on what you call a 'powered aircraft' and which account you believe). That changed the whole planet in innumerable dramatic ways, including its weather systems.

    I wonder if we're also overlooking something because the pandemic, 9/11 and financial crises are all blocking our view. Answer - very probably, but we won't know what it is (and I do hope that's not triggered a certain Multiple ID poster).

    The annoying thing is that he'd almost certainly be right.
    It's a possibility, although it would be a dramatic break with tradition from him.

    But from what I have heard, I would actually suggest the most likely left-field candidate is the vaccines developed for Covid - which appear to be promising in many other fields of medicine to the extent they may be genuinely revolutionary.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    MattW said:

    Second time post, which is an important one.

    Quite an important piece from the BBC, about Russia murdering ("executing") Ukrainian POWs.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7ve11lr247o

    Anyone who follows knows the story, but it's good to see some more generally prominent coverage.

    It's really a shame that some international organisations that are so noisy about certain countries' crimes appear utterly silent over Russia's.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A small cycling forum is closing down due to the online safety bill coming in.

    Could this be one of many to come ahead of this law coming in.

    https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/

    Could this similarly affect PB?
    That came up 2 or 3 days back - not criticising you, not at all, just that it arose in passing and could be easily missed. Main nub of it was that 'private' option is being disabled so the mods can easily check previous posts (but our emails are still concealed); and, more generally, some of us have to behave ourselves more when making accusations about identifiable persons.

    Maybe we ned a header when the mods and OGH have had a chance to consider it all.
    Ah, I saw the discussion about private profiles but missed what prompted it. Thanks.

    That link indicated there was an onerous amount of admin and management for those runnjng/moderating online forums. Risk assessments, trained moderators etc.

    The Internet is proving very hard to manage/contain /police - there's such a lot of good stuff but attempts to control the downsides, eg scams, fake news, illegal/immoral content, etc inevitably impact on all the good stuff.

    It's a worry that smaller websites might be targeted by law enforcement in order to show that the new laws are working, while the big companies that can afford legal assistance are left largely unfettered, and potentially meantime the dark underworld parts of the ineternet just carry on as normal.
    With the added kicker that the US is all-in on ‘freedom of speech’, so most sites not based out of the UK will be unaffected. Expect many of the more controversial UK sites (and their employees) to relocate themselves overseas as a result.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    MattW said:

    Second time post, which is an important one.

    Quite an important piece from the BBC, about Russia murdering ("executing") Ukrainian POWs.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7ve11lr247o

    Anyone who follows knows the story, but it's good to see some more generally prominent coverage.

    It's really a shame that some international organisations that are so noisy about certain countries' crimes appear utterly silent over Russia's.
    UN and ICC are just shite, they have their pet obsessions yet never say much about the real wrong un's. Sockpuppet grifters.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    A good piece on the absurd WASPI campaign from the New Statesman

    https://youtu.be/TxnmMl7-k7E?si=LeTLzXHPnBvAiXZY

    It might have been absurd but Labour backed it all the way until it was on their doorstep. The absurd Angela Rayner with her promise...

    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/Wv61pmtwjARPfoum/
    That's 2019, 2 elections ago and X Prime Ministers ago.

    It wasn't in the 2024 Manifesto.

    (And no - that's not support for Rayner.)
    No it wasn’t but it still did not stop many many labour candidates, now MPs enjoying photo ops with and pledging undying support for these entitled boomers. All looking foolish now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited December 22
    US Navy admits that they just shot down one of their own F/A-18 jets in the Red Sea yesterday.

    Two crew members ejected successfully and were picked up from the sea.

    The conspiracy theory is that the Houthis shot it down, and the Americans think that admitting to a blue-on-blue is less embarrassing!
    https://x.com/geiger_capital/status/1870674221484871690?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Mrs J and our son are currently doing some of the Cambridge Latin Course; chatting, discussing and laughing as they do it.

    I have absolutely zero capability at languages, but Latin should be encouraged for those who have willing and talent. Even state school pupils.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    edited December 22
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just thinking about Mr Dancer's comparison to the twentieth century, what would people in 1925 have picked as the most important moment so far? Probably either one aspect of the outbreak of WW1 or the Armistice.

    But in the longer term, that accolade would surely have to go to the development of powered aircraft, which began either in 1903 with the Wright brothers or with either Brazilian or German pioneers (depending on what you call a 'powered aircraft' and which account you believe). That changed the whole planet in innumerable dramatic ways, including its weather systems.

    I wonder if we're also overlooking something because the pandemic, 9/11 and financial crises are all blocking our view. Answer - very probably, but we won't know what it is (and I do hope that's not triggered a certain Multiple ID poster).

    The annoying thing is that he'd almost certainly be right.
    It's a possibility, although it would be a dramatic break with tradition from him.

    But from what I have heard, I would actually suggest the most likely left-field candidate is the vaccines developed for Covid - which appear to be promising in many other fields of medicine to the extent they may be genuinely revolutionary.
    Good morning comrades and colleagues!

    There are very few* 'revolutionary' events which are stand-alone. The Covid experience facilitated the development and especially the use of the likes of Zoom and Teams. Quite a lot of elderly people of my acquaintance, who would once have relied on their own physical social circles now routinely meet up with like minded people across the globe.
    And, going back a century, would airplanes have developed in the way they did but for WWI.

    *Edited for sense, due to finger failure.
  • Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    A good piece on the absurd WASPI campaign from the New Statesman

    https://youtu.be/TxnmMl7-k7E?si=LeTLzXHPnBvAiXZY

    It might have been absurd but Labour backed it all the way until it was on their doorstep. The absurd Angela Rayner with her promise...

    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/Wv61pmtwjARPfoum/
    That's 2019, 2 elections ago and X Prime Ministers ago.

    It wasn't in the 2024 Manifesto.

    (And no - that's not support for Rayner.)
    No it wasn’t but it still did not stop many many labour candidates, now MPs enjoying photo ops with and pledging undying support for these entitled boomers. All looking foolish now.
    Like every other election winner ever.

    If you don't want to look foolish, don't join the bloody circus.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,360
    DavidL said:

    I was about to go for the 2008 financial crisis but when I told my wife that she said, "of course you would, it plays to your interests."

    Which is spot on, as usual, and rather shows the pointlessness of this kind of polling. Covid and 9/11 both changed the world in different ways too, neither for the better sadly, but trying hard to set aside my bias, I still think 2008 changed our world more than anything else. If only our political class would stop pretending otherwise. It was, in many ways, the point where Keynesian economics ran out of road.

    On the contrary, 2008 saw the revival of Keynesian economics. It was out of fashion among the likes of Greenspan et al who were running the central banks before the crisis.
  • Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    A good piece on the absurd WASPI campaign from the New Statesman

    https://youtu.be/TxnmMl7-k7E?si=LeTLzXHPnBvAiXZY

    It might have been absurd but Labour backed it all the way until it was on their doorstep. The absurd Angela Rayner with her promise...

    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/Wv61pmtwjARPfoum/
    That's 2019, 2 elections ago and X Prime Ministers ago.

    It wasn't in the 2024 Manifesto.

    (And no - that's not support for Rayner.)
    No it wasn’t but it still did not stop many many labour candidates, now MPs enjoying photo ops with and pledging undying support for these entitled boomers. All looking foolish now.
    Including the prime minister. Even if the Waspi women campaign leaders are overreaching, it has been ruled that notification was inadequate.

    The danger for Labour comes if they are seen to have followed the LibDem path of promising (even if only implied) one thing but reversing once in power.

    The danger for government generally is that it is added to the list along with contaminated blood and subpostmasters of things that deserve compensation but we'll drag our feet until they're all dead and forgotten.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    F1: Undercutters episode 2 transcript, for those who prefer text, or like looking at lovely graphs: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2024/12/undercutters-ep2-f1-2024-midfield.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    edited December 22

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just thinking about Mr Dancer's comparison to the twentieth century, what would people in 1925 have picked as the most important moment so far? Probably either one aspect of the outbreak of WW1 or the Armistice.

    But in the longer term, that accolade would surely have to go to the development of powered aircraft, which began either in 1903 with the Wright brothers or with either Brazilian or German pioneers (depending on what you call a 'powered aircraft' and which account you believe). That changed the whole planet in innumerable dramatic ways, including its weather systems.

    I wonder if we're also overlooking something because the pandemic, 9/11 and financial crises are all blocking our view. Answer - very probably, but we won't know what it is (and I do hope that's not triggered a certain Multiple ID poster).

    The annoying thing is that he'd almost certainly be right.
    It's a possibility, although it would be a dramatic break with tradition from him.

    But from what I have heard, I would actually suggest the most likely left-field candidate is the vaccines developed for Covid - which appear to be promising in many other fields of medicine to the extent they may be genuinely revolutionary.
    Good morning comrades and colleagues!

    There are very few* 'revolutionary' events which are stand-alone. The Covid experience facilitated the development and especially the use of the likes of Zoom and Teams. Quite a lot of elderly people of my acquaintance, who would once have relied on their own physical social circles now routinely meet up with like minded people across the globe.
    And, going back a century, would airplanes have developed in the way they did but for WWI.

    *Edited for sense, due to finger failure.
    Yes, but it would have been slower.

    Just as atomic energy and weapons would have been developed, but it would have taken more time.

    Or indeed, in medical terms again, penicillin.

    War injects massive capital resources into things that expedites what would otherwise be slow development hampered by lack of cash.

    Of course, it can go the other way. The Nuffield aero engine, which offered a power-weight ratio far in excess of any other internal combustion engine, was abandoned due to the Air Ministry's obsession with secrecy which annoyed Lord Nuffield so much he cancelled the programme. Equally, that made jet engines a more attractive option than they would otherwise have been.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    edited December 22
    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    Second time post, which is an important one.

    Quite an important piece from the BBC, about Russia murdering ("executing") Ukrainian POWs.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7ve11lr247o

    Anyone who follows knows the story, but it's good to see some more generally prominent coverage.

    It's really a shame that some international organisations that are so noisy about certain countries' crimes appear utterly silent over Russia's.
    UN and ICC are just shite, they have their pet obsessions yet never say much about the real wrong un's. Sockpuppet grifters.
    That's not quite fair. The ICC did ban Steve Smith when he was caught cheating, although I"m not sure what the UN had to do with it.

    Oh, you don't mean the International Cricket Council?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,712

    I'd go for the GFC - I think Brexit, Trump, and the rise of right-wing populism can be tracked back to it. The idea the ordinary working man bailed out the bankers, none of whom were punished for helping cause the crisis, and has been worse off since has fuelled populism.

    I don't think it's that simple, but it is typical of centrists who seek an economic explanation for everything- because that is how they see the world.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,712
    Fishing said:

    If anybody wants to see where the nanny state leads, this video contains a fascinating if horrifying clip of a petty Chinese official trying to bully a single man into having children. From 9:24 for about three minutes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR5F_8dSjOw

    "Have a kid or we'll demolish your house" - it should be mandatory viewing for anyone tempted by socialism or other totalitarian ideologies.

    People will put their fingers in their ears and only get it when its consequences are directly experienced.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A small cycling forum is closing down due to the online safety bill coming in.

    Could this be one of many to come ahead of this law coming in.

    https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/

    Could this similarly affect PB?
    That came up 2 or 3 days back - not criticising you, not at all, just that it arose in passing and could be easily missed. Main nub of it was that 'private' option is being disabled so the mods can easily check previous posts (but our emails are still concealed); and, more generally, some of us have to behave ourselves more when making accusations about identifiable persons.

    Maybe we ned a header when the mods and OGH have had a chance to consider it all.
    Ah, I saw the discussion about private profiles but missed what prompted it. Thanks.

    That link indicated there was an onerous amount of admin and management for those runnjng/moderating online forums. Risk assessments, trained moderators etc.

    The Internet is proving very hard to manage/contain /police - there's such a lot of good stuff but attempts to control the downsides, eg scams, fake news, illegal/immoral content, etc inevitably impact on all the good stuff.

    It's a worry that smaller websites might be targeted by law enforcement in order to show that the new laws are working, while the big companies that can afford legal assistance are left largely unfettered, and potentially meantime the dark underworld parts of the ineternet just carry on as normal.
    It’s safe to assume that the authorities will go for soft targets.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,712
    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A small cycling forum is closing down due to the online safety bill coming in.

    Could this be one of many to come ahead of this law coming in.

    https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/

    Could this similarly affect PB?
    That came up 2 or 3 days back - not criticising you, not at all, just that it arose in passing and could be easily missed. Main nub of it was that 'private' option is being disabled so the mods can easily check previous posts (but our emails are still concealed); and, more generally, some of us have to behave ourselves more when making accusations about identifiable persons.

    Maybe we ned a header when the mods and OGH have had a chance to consider it all.
    Ah, I saw the discussion about private profiles but missed what prompted it. Thanks.

    That link indicated there was an onerous amount of admin and management for those runnjng/moderating online forums. Risk assessments, trained moderators etc.

    The Internet is proving very hard to manage/contain /police - there's such a lot of good stuff but attempts to control the downsides, eg scams, fake news, illegal/immoral content, etc inevitably impact on all the good stuff.

    It's a worry that smaller websites might be targeted by law enforcement in order to show that the new laws are working, while the big companies that can afford legal assistance are left largely unfettered, and potentially meantime the dark underworld parts of the ineternet just carry on as normal.
    It’s safe to assume that the authorities will go for soft targets.
    That's our society all over at the moment.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    A good piece on the absurd WASPI campaign from the New Statesman

    https://youtu.be/TxnmMl7-k7E?si=LeTLzXHPnBvAiXZY

    It might have been absurd but Labour backed it all the way until it was on their doorstep. The absurd Angela Rayner with her promise...

    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/Wv61pmtwjARPfoum/
    That's 2019, 2 elections ago and X Prime Ministers ago.

    It wasn't in the 2024 Manifesto.

    (And no - that's not support for Rayner.)
    No it wasn’t but it still did not stop many many labour candidates, now MPs enjoying photo ops with and pledging undying support for these entitled boomers. All looking foolish now.
    Including the prime minister. Even if the Waspi women campaign leaders are overreaching, it has been ruled that notification was inadequate.

    The danger for Labour comes if they are seen to have followed the LibDem path of promising (even if only implied) one thing but reversing once in power.

    The danger for government generally is that it is added to the list along with contaminated blood and subpostmasters of things that deserve compensation but we'll drag our feet until they're all dead and forgotten.
    Post Office Horizon and the contaminated blood scandal both involve relatively limited numbers of genuine victims. Compensation for them is expensive but the money can be found. The WASPI case is different. The Government is correct to say that the scale of payouts required, given the numbers of women involved, is too great to be afforded and a bad use of public funds. I also question the victim narrative in this case: what's really happened here, as with the stopping of WFP for better off pensioners, is that Boomers have been done out of an entitlement and they're screaming accordingly.

    The pension age had to be equalised at some point, and this cohort had the misfortune to be the ones affected, but that doesn't mean they deserve big handouts.

    The issue here is that they expected to be allowed to claim a pension whilst men of the same age continued to have to work, and threw a wobbly when they were told no. Demanding gender equality so long as it works in your favour and then throwing a strop when it doesn't engender much sympathy.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721

    Fishing said:

    If anybody wants to see where the nanny state leads, this video contains a fascinating if horrifying clip of a petty Chinese official trying to bully a single man into having children. From 9:24 for about three minutes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR5F_8dSjOw

    "Have a kid or we'll demolish your house" - it should be mandatory viewing for anyone tempted by socialism or other totalitarian ideologies.

    People will put their fingers in their ears and only get it when its consequences are directly experienced.
    Bit different to the time when Chinese women were put off having children because "they might have a girl, and they could only have one"!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546

    MattW said:

    Second time post, which is an important one.

    Quite an important piece from the BBC, about Russia murdering ("executing") Ukrainian POWs.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7ve11lr247o

    Anyone who follows knows the story, but it's good to see some more generally prominent coverage.

    It's really a shame that some international organisations that are so noisy about certain countries' crimes appear utterly silent over Russia's.
    When the Armenians were ethnically cleansed from Nagorno Karabakh, there was barely a word of protest.

    Their Russian “allies” lifted not a finger in their defence.

    To paraphrase Kissinger, it might be dangerous to be Russia’s enemy, but it’s lethal to be Russia’s ally.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Second time post, which is an important one.

    Quite an important piece from the BBC, about Russia murdering ("executing") Ukrainian POWs.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7ve11lr247o

    Anyone who follows knows the story, but it's good to see some more generally prominent coverage.

    It's really a shame that some international organisations that are so noisy about certain countries' crimes appear utterly silent over Russia's.
    When the Armenians were ethnically cleansed from Nagorno Karabakh, there was barely a word of protest.

    Their Russian “allies” lifted not a finger in their defence.

    To paraphrase Kissinger, it might be dangerous to be Russia’s enemy, but it’s lethal to be Russia’s ally.
    Similar to the Arab saying about the British.
  • I am surprised under-25s view 9/11 as a significant event, they wouldn't be old enough to remember it first-hand.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Sandpit said:

    US Navy admits that they just shot down one of their own F/A-18 jets in the Red Sea yesterday.

    Two crew members ejected successfully and were picked up from the sea.

    The conspiracy theory is that the Houthis shot it down, and the Americans think that admitting to a blue-on-blue is less embarrassing!
    https://x.com/geiger_capital/status/1870674221484871690?

    Either is possible; but the fact they say it was shot down from a Navy ship indicates a cover-up might be more difficult, as there would have been many witnesses to the firing of a missile.
  • How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    If we don't make/create and things the world wants, all that is left is selling the silver.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,360
    Covid for me. Truly global event that affected everyone.
    GFC probably didn't make much difference to lots of people around the world who had their own financial crises on different timelines.
    Sept 11th I suspect will be seen (as I think Singapore President suggested) as a strategic blunder the US made, taking their eyes off Asia Pacific and focusing on dead end wars in middle east.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772

    I am surprised under-25s view 9/11 as a significant event, they wouldn't be old enough to remember it first-hand.

    I'm not old enough to remember WW2 but I still viewed it as a 'significant event' if only because so many people kept talking about it.

    Or the moon landing, if you want a narrower parallel.
  • Weather update: when you can feel the wind in this house, it’s fair to say that it’s windy as fu
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    ydoethur said:

    I am surprised under-25s view 9/11 as a significant event, they wouldn't be old enough to remember it first-hand.

    I'm not old enough to remember WW2 but I still viewed it as a 'significant event' if only because so many people kept talking about it.

    Or the moon landing, if you want a narrower parallel.
    Moon landing is a really interesting one, Armstrong’s One Small Step was only eight years before I was born, but it might as well have been 80 years for how much I remember it.

    But ask me where I was when Challenger exploded, when I was eight years old, and I can recall it in significant detail.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Sandpit said:

    US Navy admits that they just shot down one of their own F/A-18 jets in the Red Sea yesterday.

    Two crew members ejected successfully and were picked up from the sea.

    The conspiracy theory is that the Houthis shot it down, and the Americans think that admitting to a blue-on-blue is less embarrassing!
    https://x.com/geiger_capital/status/1870674221484871690?

    Definitely a blue-on-blue. The shootdown was by the USS Gettysburg, a Tico class DDG.

    I hope the Captain enjoys his next draft as Officer, IC Latrines in American Samoa.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited December 22

    How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    Selling off the family silver* as McMillan put it. One of the less welcome legacies of Thatcher.

    *To foreign asset strippers.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    The in/out EU referendum.

    A nation votes to impose economic sanctions on itself.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    The pandemic was the biggest event, easily. It established state control over every aspect of life for months on end and had wide public support. Dissenters were condemned and overall it was a period of great shame both for the government and for the public who didn't do enough to rebel against lockdowns and vaccine mandates. I hope if something like this ever happens again people will ignore lockdowns completely and tell the government to go as stick their vaccine mandates up their arse.

    It is troubling to me how easily we acquiesced to absolutely unthinkable terms of living for something that was never particularly deadly. People said that similar measures had been used previously, sure but those pandemics had a significantly higher death rate and measures were justified. COVID had a less than 0.1% death rate for healthy adults. The demands made in our lifestyles wasn't worth it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    How Royal Mail can deliver billions to new owner Daniel Kretinsky
    A sprawling property portfolio and the sale of its lucrative European arm could reap huge rewards for the Czech billionaire — and his posties

    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/how-royal-mail-can-deliver-billions-to-new-owner-daniel-kretinsky-hpxchhss7 (£££)

    Selling England by the pound. Once again the government opens the door for British assets to flow abroad.

    So what? Its a private firm, no more special than Amazon or Yodel or any other of the plethora of delivery firms that exist.

    Assets will go abroad for as long as we run a trade deficit.
    You have cause and effect the wrong way round, and also have misunderstood the relevance of its being a private firm, which is only that it can be sold.
    Running a trade deficit weakens the pound, which makes British assets cheaper for foreign capital to buy, which leads to asset sales.

    What have I got wrong?
    Yes exports need to rise and imports need to fall, otherwise the only way the books balance is with capital injections from overseas.

    Perhaps building a million new student housing units and boarding school places reserved for overseas students is the way to go.
    Only if we can fill them. We have an ongoing crisis at Dundee University which has seen the departure of our Principal "with immediate effect". There are a variety of reasons for this, and Dundee is very far from alone, but gearing up on student accommodation into a headwind of falling international numbers is a major factor.
    Universities are about to collapse

    And for the same reason I’d put THAT technological change at number 1, much much higher than Covid and 9/11 (equal second)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    edited December 22
    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    A good piece on the absurd WASPI campaign from the New Statesman

    https://youtu.be/TxnmMl7-k7E?si=LeTLzXHPnBvAiXZY

    It might have been absurd but Labour backed it all the way until it was on their doorstep. The absurd Angela Rayner with her promise...

    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/Wv61pmtwjARPfoum/
    That's 2019, 2 elections ago and X Prime Ministers ago.

    It wasn't in the 2024 Manifesto.

    (And no - that's not support for Rayner.)
    No it wasn’t but it still did not stop many many labour candidates, now MPs enjoying photo ops with and pledging undying support for these entitled boomers. All looking foolish now.
    Including the prime minister. Even if the Waspi women campaign leaders are overreaching, it has been ruled that notification was inadequate.

    The danger for Labour comes if they are seen to have followed the LibDem path of promising (even if only implied) one thing but reversing once in power.

    The danger for government generally is that it is added to the list along with contaminated blood and subpostmasters of things that deserve compensation but we'll drag our feet until they're all dead and forgotten.
    Post Office Horizon and the contaminated blood scandal both involve relatively limited numbers of genuine victims. Compensation for them is expensive but the money can be found. The WASPI case is different. The Government is correct to say that the scale of payouts required, given the numbers of women involved, is too great to be afforded and a bad use of public funds. I also question the victim narrative in this case: what's really happened here, as with the stopping of WFP for better off pensioners, is that Boomers have been done out of an entitlement and they're screaming accordingly.

    The pension age had to be equalised at some point, and this cohort had the misfortune to be the ones affected, but that doesn't mean they deserve big handouts.

    The issue here is that they expected to be allowed to claim a pension whilst men of the same age continued to have to work, and threw a wobbly when they were told no. Demanding gender equality so long as it works in your favour and then throwing a strop when it doesn't engender much sympathy.
    Yes, protesting the increase in pension age and demanding the full amount is what I described as overreach.

    However, it is true that notification was inadequate, and it is not absurd to suggest that compensation for that and that alone might be in order, or that the normal pension requirements (other than age) can be waived in these cases. The ombudsman has already ruled this is so.

    But the merits are irrelevant to the point, which was Labour's apparent volte face on reaching Downing Street. This is compared to the LibDem handling of tuition fees, again without debating the merits of that decision.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    US Navy admits that they just shot down one of their own F/A-18 jets in the Red Sea yesterday.

    Two crew members ejected successfully and were picked up from the sea.

    The conspiracy theory is that the Houthis shot it down, and the Americans think that admitting to a blue-on-blue is less embarrassing!
    https://x.com/geiger_capital/status/1870674221484871690?

    Definitely a blue-on-blue. The shootdown was by the USS Gettysburg, a Tico class DDG.

    I hope the Captain enjoys his next draft as Officer, IC Latrines in American Samoa.
    You reckon he’s gonna be lucky enough to be Latrines Officer in American Samoa?
  • The in/out EU referendum.

    A nation votes to impose economic sanctions on itself.

    Thing is, we did the damage to ourselves afterwards. Because we didn’t know what the European Union actually was, or what we wanted instead. Bit stupid really.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395
    edited December 22
    MaxPB said:

    The pandemic was the biggest event, easily. It established state control over every aspect of life for months on end and had wide public support. Dissenters were condemned and overall it was a period of great shame both for the government and for the public who didn't do enough to rebel against lockdowns and vaccine mandates. I hope if something like this ever happens again people will ignore lockdowns completely and tell the government to go as stick their vaccine mandates up their arse.

    It is troubling to me how easily we acquiesced to absolutely unthinkable terms of living for something that was never particularly deadly. People said that similar measures had been used previously, sure but those pandemics had a significantly higher death rate and measures were justified. COVID had a less than 0.1% death rate for healthy adults. The demands made in our lifestyles wasn't worth it.

    That figure's too low. More like 1% or more in the UK IIRC. [Edit: overall, for all, but that includes children, though.]
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