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This poll is barking – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nearly finished a week of doing my taxes. Just a couple of hours needed now, after Christmas

    What gets me REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY QUITE RESENTFUL is the fact that: if I am a day late filing my returns, I get INSTANTLY fined. But HMRC, all working from home, are now taking A YEAR to process Tax Exemption forms, despite multiple calls, and feeble promises, thereby costing me serious money

    Utter state of this country

    I'm not joking. A YEAR. AT LEAST

    To process one form
    Bureacracies tend to be more concerned with adherence to their own rules by others than their own compliance with standards, rules, or the law.
    It's making me quite irritable. I spoke to my Knapping Foreign Tax Accountant today, and she said the only tax authority in the world that is as fucked up as the UK's is....Germany's

    And it just so happens that my much-needed tax form is for exemption from tax by.... Germany

    She said "the whole thing could take easily two years, or more"

    I've already waited one year for the UK - AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DELIVERED - and even when I get the form, perhaps when I am dead, I have to wait at least another year for the fucking krauts to be as shite as the British

    It is emblematic of the two sick men of Europe. Germany and the UK
    We sent a form to reclaim some German VAT (MwSt) (Well our German accountants did) a few weeks back. I reckon it'll be at least a couple of years we're out of pocket (If we're lucky) on it
    Fucking maddening. I reckon HMRC's pitiful chaos - along with that of Germany's - is costing me thousands. Maybe tens of thousands if for some reason I keel over in the interim

    WTF am I meant to do? My government no longer serves its purpose, it cannot run an efficient state. And yet when I vote for the other lot, they are just as bad, indeed significantly worse

    For this reason alone I will vote Reform, to terrify the shit out of ALL the Establishment. I want them frightened for their jobs and I want half of them sacked
    still waiting for a refund from HMRC from April - all it says is "pending" -apparently referred to a special department despite them accepting evidence of the pension contributions that caused the refund. Can you get to talk to that department -nah of course not - the only conversation you will have (after about 30 minutes of infuriating nannying messages about finding out online any query ) is with yourself saying "Fing hell" when it then cuts you off
    They're all at home. When I call them I can literally hear their fucking pets and kids kicking off, and then they say "Oh I can't find the file, let me get back to you in a few days"

    Well maybe you can't find it because you are sitting on your obese butt in your fucking house in Newent, you pathetic lazy bint

    I have honestly had HMRC twats say to me, "We understand we have failed you, we are now expediting your case"

    EXPEDITING

    And then - nothing. She goes and has another biscuit. If I ran my life like this I'd be out of work in weeks

    It is utterly pathetic. Get them back in the office and halve their pay with the threat of instant dismissal and replacement by a keen, eager, articulate robot
    Hypothetically, if Starmer were to sort out HMRC (extremely unlikely, I know), would you vote for him … again ?
    lolno

    Edit to add: I don't blame this shit on Starmer. But I don't see him sorting out public sector inefficiency
    Neither do I …. but, hypothetically ?

    (To be clear, I didn’t vote for him last time, and don’t plan to next. Just curious.)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,940
    edited December 20
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    You're diseased. Many people have died and you are focusing on the speed of the CCTV footage, and whether it is "fake"
    You can't bang on about AI all the time and not expect people to take a very close at video footage when it's shared across social media. I was on PB when half this forum thought some clips from ARMA III was actually real footage from a Ukrainian battlefield.

    I haven't suggested that this terrorist attack hasn't happened, which you are wrongly implying. I just think there is something odd about the particular video you shared.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483
    edited December 20

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    So you're not just commenting on the speed of the film but also think it's faked in some way? That's a bit too conspiracy-minded.
    No, I just think it's been sped up a bit by whoever has shared it.
    CCTV, especially older systems, often has a lower frames rate than normal continuous filming. As mentioned above.

    This was to reduce storage issues.
    Talking of CCTV, this has also emerged today. The man got a caution. Judge for yourself. The Met is now squirming

    https://x.com/CrimeLdn/status/1870129798095512036

    Remember people went to jail for hurty Facebook posts

    The Met's official response:


    "This video shows a domestic violence incident that took place in Rainham on 31 July 2023. It is horrifying and difficult to watch.

    The man in the video was given a caution for common assault at the time.

    Violence of any kind is unacceptable but we know violence against women and girls poses a particularly serious problem that we are determined to tackle effectively.

    It is clear we have lessons to learn from the way we handled this case. We have made contact with the victim again to offer our support."
  • Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    I have seen the video and the car speed is horrific but what makes you think it is speeded up ?
    The speed at which people run away. Their cadence is way too fast.
    This is Sky report which confirms the car was driven at speed

    Maybe be wise to wait for the details rather than your speculation

    It is horrific and people have died tonight

    https://news.sky.com/story/man-arrested-after-car-driven-at-speed-into-crowd-at-christmas-market-in-germany-live-updates-13277329
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    For balance, I should say this CAN be fixed

    The UKPO - the passport office - was fricking terrible for a while. Now they are super efficient. I've heard this from multiple sources, and experienced it myself. Personal phone calls the next day, and results within a week

    Whatever happened at the UKPO, apply it to the HMRC

    (Glaswegian here, who knows people who work at the Glasgow UKPO).

    They hired a decent amount of staff to cover the demand.

    It's a crazy off-the-wall idea, but seems to have worked on this one occassion.
    lol. And bravo!

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,828

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    I have seen the video and the car speed is horrific but what makes you think it is speeded up ?
    The speed at which people run away. Their cadence is way too fast.
    This is Sky report which confirms the car was driven at speed

    Maybe be wise to wait for the details rather than your speculation

    It is horrific and people have died tonight

    https://news.sky.com/story/man-arrested-after-car-driven-at-speed-into-crowd-at-christmas-market-in-germany-live-updates-13277329
    From that link:

    "German police suspect explosive device in vehicle - reports

    German police suspect an explosive device in the vehicle, the German public broadcaster MDR reports, citing the police.
    It is unclear if the police suspect the device still to be in situ."
  • Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    If they are ex mp's voters have judged them unfit to govern so you put them back in a government role in the lords....thats what is wrong
    I was thinking about that when I saw Thangam Debbonaire’s (sp?) name on the list. I’d rather see her back in the Commons, but she seems to be a sensible woman and an asset to Parliament.
    An indication that Labour don’t expect to win the seat back anytime soon.
    Labour do not expect a by-election anytime soon, more like. Thangam Debbonaire will be in her 60s by the next general election, and meanwhile is someone Starmer wanted in the Cabinet.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,074
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    So you're not just commenting on the speed of the film but also think it's faked in some way? That's a bit too conspiracy-minded.
    No, I just think it's been sped up a bit by whoever has shared it.
    CCTV, especially older systems, often has a lower frames rate than normal continuous filming. As mentioned above.

    This was to reduce storage issues.
    Talking of CCTV, this has also emerged today. The man got a caution. Judge for yourself. The Met is now squirming

    https://x.com/CrimeLdn/status/1870129798095512036

    Remember people went to jail for hurty Facebook posts

    The Met's official response:


    "This video shows a domestic violence incident that took place in Rainham on 31 July 2023. It is horrifying and difficult to watch.

    The man in the video was given a caution for common assault at the time.

    Violence of any kind is unacceptable but we know violence against women and girls poses a particularly serious problem that we are determined to tackle effectively.

    It is clear we have lessons to learn from the way we handled this case. We have made contact with the victim again to offer our support."
    A caution = a conviction, but with less paperwork.

    So the police got a conviction, without increasing the load on courts. Which met their targets for domestic violence.

    The targets are met. The paperwork is immaculate, probably.

    What’s your problem? Eh? Eh?

    Questioning justice like that is probable a non-crime that needs reporting. Mind how you go.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    You're diseased. Many people have died and you are focusing on the speed of the CCTV footage, and whether it is "fake"
    You can't bang on about AI all the time and not expect people to take a very close at video footage when it's shared across social media. I was on PB when half this forum thought some clips from ARMA III was actually real footage from a Ukrainian battlefield.

    I haven't suggested that this terrorist attack hasn't happened, which you are wrongly implying. I just think there is something odd about the particular video you shared.
    I never shared any video

    I deliberately did NOT share, so you have no idea what you are talking about. Go and look down the thread. Twat
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,940

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    I have seen the video and the car speed is horrific but what makes you think it is speeded up ?
    The speed at which people run away. Their cadence is way too fast.
    This is Sky report which confirms the car was driven at speed

    Maybe be wise to wait for the details rather than your speculation

    It is horrific and people have died tonight

    https://news.sky.com/story/man-arrested-after-car-driven-at-speed-into-crowd-at-christmas-market-in-germany-live-updates-13277329
    I'd ask you to have a read through my comments again. The only query I raised was over the particular video that Leon referenced above.
  • Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    You're diseased. Many people have died and you are focusing on the speed of the CCTV footage, and whether it is "fake"
    You can't bang on about AI all the time and not expect people to take a very close at video footage when it's shared across social media. I was on PB when half this forum thought some clips from ARMA III was actually real footage from a Ukrainian battlefield.

    I haven't suggested that this terrorist attack hasn't happened, which you are wrongly implying. I just think there is something odd about the particular video you shared.
    I never shared any video

    I deliberately did NOT share, so you have no idea what you are talking about. Go and look down the thread. Twat
    Your initial TwiX link included a video.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    So you're not just commenting on the speed of the film but also think it's faked in some way? That's a bit too conspiracy-minded.
    No, I just think it's been sped up a bit by whoever has shared it.
    CCTV, especially older systems, often has a lower frames rate than normal continuous filming. As mentioned above.

    This was to reduce storage issues.
    Talking of CCTV, this has also emerged today. The man got a caution. Judge for yourself. The Met is now squirming

    https://x.com/CrimeLdn/status/1870129798095512036

    Remember people went to jail for hurty Facebook posts

    The Met's official response:


    "This video shows a domestic violence incident that took place in Rainham on 31 July 2023. It is horrifying and difficult to watch.

    The man in the video was given a caution for common assault at the time.

    Violence of any kind is unacceptable but we know violence against women and girls poses a particularly serious problem that we are determined to tackle effectively.

    It is clear we have lessons to learn from the way we handled this case. We have made contact with the victim again to offer our support."
    A caution = a conviction, but with less paperwork.

    So the police got a conviction, without increasing the load on courts. Which met their targets for domestic violence.

    The targets are met. The paperwork is immaculate, probably.

    What’s your problem? Eh? Eh?

    Questioning justice like that is probable a non-crime that needs reporting. Mind how you go.
    I'm basically done with this country. And Europe. Unless we elect some serious people

    Trump is a fucking lunatic, but at least he offers America a chance of escaping Europe's fate
  • Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    I have seen the video and the car speed is horrific but what makes you think it is speeded up ?
    The speed at which people run away. Their cadence is way too fast.
    This is Sky report which confirms the car was driven at speed

    Maybe be wise to wait for the details rather than your speculation

    It is horrific and people have died tonight

    https://news.sky.com/story/man-arrested-after-car-driven-at-speed-into-crowd-at-christmas-market-in-germany-live-updates-13277329
    I'd ask you to have a read through my comments again. The only query I raised was over the particular video that Leon referenced above.
    Frankly in the circumstances I think your comments are unnecessary conjecture in what has been a terrible tragedy
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483
    edited December 20

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    You're diseased. Many people have died and you are focusing on the speed of the CCTV footage, and whether it is "fake"
    You can't bang on about AI all the time and not expect people to take a very close at video footage when it's shared across social media. I was on PB when half this forum thought some clips from ARMA III was actually real footage from a Ukrainian battlefield.

    I haven't suggested that this terrorist attack hasn't happened, which you are wrongly implying. I just think there is something odd about the particular video you shared.
    I never shared any video

    I deliberately did NOT share, so you have no idea what you are talking about. Go and look down the thread. Twat
    Your initial TwiX link included a video.
    I did not directly link a video. I wouldn't. Whole thing is horrific, I can't help if a video is buried in a TwiX thread
  • Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    You're diseased. Many people have died and you are focusing on the speed of the CCTV footage, and whether it is "fake"
    You can't bang on about AI all the time and not expect people to take a very close at video footage when it's shared across social media. I was on PB when half this forum thought some clips from ARMA III was actually real footage from a Ukrainian battlefield.

    I haven't suggested that this terrorist attack hasn't happened, which you are wrongly implying. I just think there is something odd about the particular video you shared.
    I never shared any video

    I deliberately did NOT share, so you have no idea what you are talking about. Go and look down the thread. Twat
    I agree with you having seen the video and definitely would not share it

    However, speculation about the video and vehicle speed is just insensitive at best, and utterly thoughtless at worst
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,053

    Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.

    We have a few miniature sticks on our Christmas tree, albeit not illuminated.
    Whatever happened to sugar mice?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,426
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    So you're not just commenting on the speed of the film but also think it's faked in some way? That's a bit too conspiracy-minded.
    No, I just think it's been sped up a bit by whoever has shared it.
    CCTV, especially older systems, often has a lower frames rate than normal continuous filming. As mentioned above.

    This was to reduce storage issues.
    Talking of CCTV, this has also emerged today. The man got a caution. Judge for yourself. The Met is now squirming

    https://x.com/CrimeLdn/status/1870129798095512036

    Remember people went to jail for hurty Facebook posts

    The Met's official response:


    "This video shows a domestic violence incident that took place in Rainham on 31 July 2023. It is horrifying and difficult to watch.

    The man in the video was given a caution for common assault at the time.

    Violence of any kind is unacceptable but we know violence against women and girls poses a particularly serious problem that we are determined to tackle effectively.

    It is clear we have lessons to learn from the way we handled this case. We have made contact with the victim again to offer our support."
    A caution = a conviction, but with less paperwork.

    So the police got a conviction, without increasing the load on courts. Which met their targets for domestic violence.

    The targets are met. The paperwork is immaculate, probably.

    What’s your problem? Eh? Eh?

    Questioning justice like that is probable a non-crime that needs reporting. Mind how you go.
    I'm basically done with this country. And Europe. Unless we elect some serious people

    Trump is a fucking lunatic, but at least he offers America a chance of escaping Europe's fate
    "I'm basically done with this country."

    Well, fuck off then. Go away. Skedaddle. Vamoose. I'm sure you can find the airport easily enough. Please don't come back. ;)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,053
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    I also have no time at all for the harrassing TV licence protection racket, it is a total scandal, as is the confused law about who needs a TV licence, but there is a misjudgment here.

    A civil society depends upon being able to deem that receiving a letter according to a statutory and lawful procedure means you are on notice of its contents. Eg a Notice of Intended Prosecution for motoring offences. It's not enough to argue that you throw letters away unopened and therefore you don't know what is going on.
    Have you not noticed how shit the Royal Mail is now? I reckon 10% of my promised letter and parcels, if sent by Royal Mail, do not make it
    If it cost the BBC's enforcers the same to send each of these letters as it costs us to send a second class letter, there would be fewer of them.

    I haven't had the Christmas one, but I get more than one a month.
    We are needing a, possibly crowdfunded, test case using a top lawyer to take on the BBC and ensure they publicly lose the case. If necessary, take it all the way to the Supreme Court.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    How is not having a licence sufficient evidence to convict someone of watching TV illegally?

    That is equivalent to being convicted of driving without a licence just because you have not passed your test.

    It isn't. There has to be evidence of illegal use of relevant broadcasts/interweb etc.

    I have a licence (mostly for a family member to watch Gardeners World) but would happily pay it anyway, though I don't need to, for R4, R3 (though it's a shadow of its glory days) and World Service.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    So you're not just commenting on the speed of the film but also think it's faked in some way? That's a bit too conspiracy-minded.
    No, I just think it's been sped up a bit by whoever has shared it.
    CCTV, especially older systems, often has a lower frames rate than normal continuous filming. As mentioned above.

    This was to reduce storage issues.
    Talking of CCTV, this has also emerged today. The man got a caution. Judge for yourself. The Met is now squirming

    https://x.com/CrimeLdn/status/1870129798095512036

    Remember people went to jail for hurty Facebook posts

    The Met's official response:


    "This video shows a domestic violence incident that took place in Rainham on 31 July 2023. It is horrifying and difficult to watch.

    The man in the video was given a caution for common assault at the time.

    Violence of any kind is unacceptable but we know violence against women and girls poses a particularly serious problem that we are determined to tackle effectively.

    It is clear we have lessons to learn from the way we handled this case. We have made contact with the victim again to offer our support."
    A caution = a conviction, but with less paperwork.

    So the police got a conviction, without increasing the load on courts. Which met their targets for domestic violence.

    The targets are met. The paperwork is immaculate, probably.

    What’s your problem? Eh? Eh?

    Questioning justice like that is probable a non-crime that needs reporting. Mind how you go.
    I'm basically done with this country. And Europe. Unless we elect some serious people

    Trump is a fucking lunatic, but at least he offers America a chance of escaping Europe's fate
    "I'm basically done with this country."

    Well, fuck off then. Go away. Skedaddle. Vamoose. I'm sure you can find the airport easily enough. Please don't come back. ;)
    YOU DID THE EMOJI AGAIN
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.

    Candy canes, surely?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,053
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    For balance, I should say this CAN be fixed

    The UKPO - the passport office - was fricking terrible for a while. Now they are super efficient. I've heard this from multiple sources, and experienced it myself. Personal phone calls the next day, and results within a week

    Whatever happened at the UKPO, apply it to the HMRC

    (Glaswegian here, who knows people who work at the Glasgow UKPO).

    They hired a decent amount of staff to cover the demand.

    It's a crazy off-the-wall idea, but seems to have worked on this one occassion.
    Why should it only be one occasion. We need a Government wide hit squad to blitz underperforming departments. Seems like HMRC should be the first target.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,989
    algarkirk said:

    How is not having a licence sufficient evidence to convict someone of watching TV illegally?

    That is equivalent to being convicted of driving without a licence just because you have not passed your test.

    It isn't. There has to be evidence of illegal use of relevant broadcasts/interweb etc.

    I have a licence (mostly for a family member to watch Gardeners World) but would happily pay it anyway, though I don't need to, for R4, R3 (though it's a shadow of its glory days) and World Service.
    Well it is if you don't turn up to a court date you never knew you had....to me it seems they are saying guilty unless you turn up and prove yourself innocent
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    edited December 20

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    What absolute lunatic has made Toby Young a peer?

    Oh, I see now.

    FPT

    Toby Young, if I rightly remember the Channel 4 docudrama When Boris Met Dave, was at Oxford with Boris and David Cameron. Accepted by mistake, Tobes got a first in PPE like Dave and was sacked from the Times like Boris. He is the quintessential Conservative.
    I know Tobes reasonably well. OOOOH the stories I could tell, but shan't

    He used to be quite a lad, but these days is much more sensible. He is doing genuinely good work with the Free Speech Union, taking on very deserving cases, he has also been cancelled at least twice, quite nastily, generally by people who hate the idea of Academies, or indeed of anyone rightwing

    For the Free Speech Union alone it's a good appointment, far more deserved that 90% of these fucking time wasters on the left. Have you seen Starmer's list? Fucksake Well done Kemi
    I agree. The fact he provokes billious attacks from our lefties says everything about his politics, nothing about his suitability. Do you folks want the Lords rammed to the rafters with centrist drones nodding through every bit of authoritarian lunacy that Sir Helmet dreams up? - Wait don't answer that.
    Look at Starmer's list, and weep for Britain


    Steamer’s new peerages:

    Professor Wendy Alexander
    Sir Brendan Barber
    Luciana Berger
    Mary Bousted
    Kevin Brennan
    Lyn Brown
    Dinah Caine
    Kay Carberry
    Margaret Curran
    Thangam Debbonaire
    Julie Elliott
    David Evans
    Sue Gray
    Theresa Griffin
    Anji Hunter
    Carwyn Jones
    Mike Katz
    Gerard Lemos
    Alison Levitt KC
    Anne Longfield
    Deborah Mattinson
    Steve McCabe
    Claude Morae
    Wendy Nichols
    Simon Pitkeathley
    Dame Anne Marie Rafferty
    Krish Raval
    Marvin Rees

    Revd Dr Russell David Rook
    Phil Wilson
    At the same time they got rid of 42 Conservative peers this is a massive stacking of parliament on party political grounds.

    And narry a whisper from the hypocrite who accused the Tories of electoral malfeasance for asking for voter ID or redistricting

    They didn't get rid of Conservative peers. They got rid of hereditaries. Not the same thing.

    The Tories are still the largest party in the Lords as I understand it.
    42 of the life peers were elected by conservatives vs 2 elected by labour peers.

    Grant that that is wrong (I was in favour a proper reform of the lords to get rid of the hereditaries) but this is a massive change in the composition of the house by executive fiat
    This is turbo-baloney ! But I think you know that.

    I'll be gentle, as it's a Friday and @Leon is probably at Chez Toynbee in Primrose Hill necking Mateus Rose, with a dual headache from Val Policella and the booze, the Groucho still being closed by the Metropolitan Police (for a few more days), serious crime for the investigation of.

    Data (suspect it may not be totally up to date - but good enough):

    (Name of PM, Peers Appointed (Peers pa), Tory Peers, Lab Peers, Tory Extras)
    Cam the Ham: 243 (40), 110, 55, +55
    May the Fey: 43 (14), 26, 4, +22
    Boris the Bullshitter: 87 (29), 44, 13, +31
    Truss the (unable to find suitable word allowed by @TSE ): 29 (29), 16, 8, +8
    Sunak the Sunk: 59 (29), 30, 12, +18

    30 extra Lab vs 6 extra Tory is barely a scratch on the surface of the scratch on the surface of the long run difference the other way. Hereditaries are a side issue - the removal of an inbuilt bias, which still barely accounts for the difference back to Boris even if we allow it.

    I'd say that we have another 30 Labour coming in in each of the next 2 years, to get them to ~260-270 - so about +80 swing back out of +138 Tories over 14 years, but it will be limited by shrinking the size of the HoL from the current ~800 to ~700 over the Parliament. All depending on how the wider reform proposals go. Then because of the Election rout we need quite a lot more Lib Dems, and to lose a few Tories, if we are to reflect popular vote in the longer term (one guide that has been claimed).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,426
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    So you're not just commenting on the speed of the film but also think it's faked in some way? That's a bit too conspiracy-minded.
    No, I just think it's been sped up a bit by whoever has shared it.
    CCTV, especially older systems, often has a lower frames rate than normal continuous filming. As mentioned above.

    This was to reduce storage issues.
    Talking of CCTV, this has also emerged today. The man got a caution. Judge for yourself. The Met is now squirming

    https://x.com/CrimeLdn/status/1870129798095512036

    Remember people went to jail for hurty Facebook posts

    The Met's official response:


    "This video shows a domestic violence incident that took place in Rainham on 31 July 2023. It is horrifying and difficult to watch.

    The man in the video was given a caution for common assault at the time.

    Violence of any kind is unacceptable but we know violence against women and girls poses a particularly serious problem that we are determined to tackle effectively.

    It is clear we have lessons to learn from the way we handled this case. We have made contact with the victim again to offer our support."
    A caution = a conviction, but with less paperwork.

    So the police got a conviction, without increasing the load on courts. Which met their targets for domestic violence.

    The targets are met. The paperwork is immaculate, probably.

    What’s your problem? Eh? Eh?

    Questioning justice like that is probable a non-crime that needs reporting. Mind how you go.
    I'm basically done with this country. And Europe. Unless we elect some serious people

    Trump is a fucking lunatic, but at least he offers America a chance of escaping Europe's fate
    "I'm basically done with this country."

    Well, fuck off then. Go away. Skedaddle. Vamoose. I'm sure you can find the airport easily enough. Please don't come back. ;)
    YOU DID THE EMOJI AGAIN
    Aw diddums. Let me play this tiny violin for you.

    But again, I have to ask: what sort of 'change' were you suggesting we need earlier?

    Oh, and you appear to have a problem with the caps lock key. I suggest it might be user error.
  • Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.

    We have a few miniature sticks on our Christmas tree, albeit not illuminated.
    Whatever happened to sugar mice?
    "In my weakened state, I ate them all!"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    You're diseased. Many people have died and you are focusing on the speed of the CCTV footage, and whether it is "fake"
    You can't bang on about AI all the time and not expect people to take a very close at video footage when it's shared across social media. I was on PB when half this forum thought some clips from ARMA III was actually real footage from a Ukrainian battlefield.

    I haven't suggested that this terrorist attack hasn't happened, which you are wrongly implying. I just think there is something odd about the particular video you shared.
    I never shared any video

    I deliberately did NOT share, so you have no idea what you are talking about. Go and look down the thread. Twat
    There was a video on the original link you posted.
    (Whether or not you intended.)
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    How is not having a licence sufficient evidence to convict someone of watching TV illegally?

    That is equivalent to being convicted of driving without a licence just because you have not passed your test.

    It isn't. There has to be evidence of illegal use of relevant broadcasts/interweb etc.

    I have a licence (mostly for a family member to watch Gardeners World) but would happily pay it anyway, though I don't need to, for R4, R3 (though it's a shadow of its glory days) and World Service.
    Well it is if you don't turn up to a court date you never knew you had....to me it seems they are saying guilty unless you turn up and prove yourself innocent
    Unless there is an exception I don't know about, non action by a defendant is never taken in law as a guilty plea, and the prosecution have to prove their case as if it were a not guilty plea. They would have to prove unlawful use.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,327
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Bin lorries.
    Bin lorries.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    Guardian reported the likely perpetrator as a Saudi citizen.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Sky reporting 11 dead, citing Bild as the source.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,989
    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    How is not having a licence sufficient evidence to convict someone of watching TV illegally?

    That is equivalent to being convicted of driving without a licence just because you have not passed your test.

    It isn't. There has to be evidence of illegal use of relevant broadcasts/interweb etc.

    I have a licence (mostly for a family member to watch Gardeners World) but would happily pay it anyway, though I don't need to, for R4, R3 (though it's a shadow of its glory days) and World Service.
    Well it is if you don't turn up to a court date you never knew you had....to me it seems they are saying guilty unless you turn up and prove yourself innocent
    Unless there is an exception I don't know about, non action by a defendant is never taken in law as a guilty plea, and the prosecution have to prove their case as if it were a not guilty plea. They would have to prove unlawful use.
    Its a civil offence....the criminal offence is then not paying the fine you never actually should have owed
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,327
    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    How is not having a licence sufficient evidence to convict someone of watching TV illegally?

    That is equivalent to being convicted of driving without a licence just because you have not passed your test.

    It isn't. There has to be evidence of illegal use of relevant broadcasts/interweb etc.

    I have a licence (mostly for a family member to watch Gardeners World) but would happily pay it anyway, though I don't need to, for R4, R3 (though it's a shadow of its glory days) and World Service.
    Well it is if you don't turn up to a court date you never knew you had....to me it seems they are saying guilty unless you turn up and prove yourself innocent
    Unless there is an exception I don't know about, non action by a defendant is never taken in law as a guilty plea, and the prosecution have to prove their case as if it were a not guilty plea. They would have to prove unlawful use.
    That's criminal law, isn't it? The first stage in TV licensing is civil. Very convenient, from a certain perspective.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Bin lorries.
    Bin lorries.
    Unfortunate timing
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,152
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    For balance, I should say this CAN be fixed

    The UKPO - the passport office - was fricking terrible for a while. Now they are super efficient. I've heard this from multiple sources, and experienced it myself. Personal phone calls the next day, and results within a week

    Whatever happened at the UKPO, apply it to the HMRC

    (Glaswegian here, who knows people who work at the Glasgow UKPO).

    They hired a decent amount of staff to cover the demand.

    It's a crazy off-the-wall idea, but seems to have worked on this one occassion.
    I found a random blogpost from Taxwatch from earlier this year -- https://www.taxwatchuk.org/hmrc-skills-future/ -- that says that HMRC is one of only four government departments that has shrunk since 2010. It also sounds like they have an "inability to pay the going rate for good staff" problem -- their median pay for senior staff is lower than that for staff at that grade elsewhere in the civil service, plus it's less than an experienced HMRC employee could get for moving to the private sector with that knowledge of how HMRC works. So they employ 38% fewer "tax professionals" than they did in 2016, and their age profile now has a lot of younger people on national minimum wage doing first line phone support and a bulge of experienced over-60s who don't want to change job before they retire, and a dip in the middle. (If you think it's bad now, what's it going to be like when those over-60s retire and take all their institutional knowledge and experience with them?)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,327
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Bin lorries.
    Bin lorries.
    Unfortunate timing
    Fair enough, perhaps, but at least I waited. Not some, though.
  • Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,074
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Bin lorries.
    Bin lorries.
    EV acceleration? I’ve seen some videos where an EV launched off a slope and ended up flying like a missile through the air. If that ended in a crowd….
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483

    Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!

    Musk correctly sees the mortal threat to Europe

    I am, however, not sure his diagnosis is right
  • Reuters : President Musk calls on his German counterpart Scholz to step down.
    More to follow.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166

    Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!

    I call for Musk to put a sock in it, for a couple of days !!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    On Tuesday Night, Christians gathered in the Syrian City of Homs for the Annual Lighting of the Christmas Tree, featuring Music from Pitbull, Fireworks, and Free Syrian Flags.
    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1870184575395123300
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    House Republican: ‘Last time I checked, Elon Musk doesn’t have a vote in Congress’
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5050395-elon-musk-impacts-congress/
  • Music from Pitbull ?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,828
    Another reminder that posting on social media can be incitement to violence:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgmk9ege84o

    Eight sentenced in France for actions that led to teacher beheading
  • Nigelb said:

    Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!

    I call for Musk to put a sock in it, for a couple of days !!!
    I am not sure he listens to anyone including Trump
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Nigelb said:

    House Republican: ‘Last time I checked, Elon Musk doesn’t have a vote in Congress’
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5050395-elon-musk-impacts-congress/

    It appears he has many, many votes...

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,891

    Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!

    So what?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,426
    edited December 20

    Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!

    I'm looking forward to see him say the same about Trump the next time there's a mass shooting in the USA.

    Sadly, we should not have long to wait.
  • Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!

    So what?
    Not sure his intervention helps to be fair
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,074

    Music from Pitbull ?

    Cuban American Rapper?

    Should have been these guys - https://youtu.be/bWXazVhlyxQ?si=KlMUXoy9pZ4PE5nD
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Bin lorries.
    Bin lorries.
    EV acceleration? I’ve seen some videos where an EV launched off a slope and ended up flying like a missile through the air. If that ended in a crowd….
    Someone working as a doctor for many years doesn't really fit the normal profile for this.

    If there was a bomb in the car then all bets are off, but has that been officially confirmed?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    The combination of control freak and snowflake is not a pretty one.
    Musk is a brilliant entrepreneur, but a dangerous fool when it comes to politics.

    Musk says he’ll fund ‘moderate’ Democratic primary challengers

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5051116-elon-musk-funding-democrat-primary-challenges/
    .. “Oh … forgot to mention that I’m also going to be funding moderate candidates in heavily Democrat districts, so that the country can get rid of those who don’t represent them, like this jacka‑‑,” Musk wrote Thursday night on his social media platform X.
    The ally of President-elect Trump made the comments in response to a clip of a floor speech from Rep. Richard Neal (D-Mass.), the ranking member of the Ways and Means Committee, who slammed Musk’s threat to primary Republicans if they supported an earlier bipartisan spending proposal this week.
    “Can you image what the next two years are going to be like if every time that Congress works its will and then there’s a tweet? Or from an individual who has no official portfolio, who threatens members on the Republican side with a primary and they succumb?” Neal said in a fiery floor speech Thursday night….


    A polite no thank you would be the correct response.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,074

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Bin lorries.
    Bin lorries.
    EV acceleration? I’ve seen some videos where an EV launched off a slope and ended up flying like a missile through the air. If that ended in a crowd….
    Someone working as a doctor for many years doesn't really fit the normal profile for this.

    If there was a bomb in the car then all bets are off, but has that been officially confirmed?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2007_UK_terrorist_incidents
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483
    Re the Saudi attacker in Germany (as per Bild and Welt)

    So he's killed 11 and injired 80 (according to reports), at a Christmas market

    Cui bono? How do Islamists hope to gain from this, or is it simply a nihilistic urge to kill Christians? If it is logical, then to what end?

    If this continues then the inevitable end will be mass deportation of Muslims from Europe. That is obvious. Is that what they want? Why? I don't see anything else emerging as a result

    All they are doing is paving the road to Far Right governments in Europe that are extremely hostile to Islam. I'm genuinely confused. How does that benefit the Islamist cause? Or is there actually no rationale at all?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916
    Abbott is clearly fulfilling the sour, catty Ted Heath role in this parliament. She’s even got the same spot in the Commons.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,426

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Bin lorries.
    Bin lorries.
    EV acceleration? I’ve seen some videos where an EV launched off a slope and ended up flying like a missile through the air. If that ended in a crowd….
    There was a famous one at a Canadian checkpoint last year - though I don't think that was an EV (hybrid, perhaps?). Many people suspected it was terrorism. It was not.

    That sad crash was caught on video, and it is notable how fae the car 'flew' through the air before impact.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/23/us-canada-border-vehicle-crash-explosion
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916
    I also am so very depressed about the news coming out of Germany. So close to Christmas (not that this would be anything but horrific at any time) it has left me feeling desperately sad. I will likely stay away from the news and the fallout.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166

    Nigelb said:

    Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!

    I call for Musk to put a sock in it, for a couple of days !!!
    I am not sure he listens to anyone including Trump
    You’d think someone that smart would be aware Germany has election in February, Scholz having lost a confidence vote.

    Calling for a pointless gesture is not evidence of political genius.
  • I also am so very depressed about the news coming out of Germany. So close to Christmas (not that this would be anything but horrific at any time) it has left me feeling desperately sad. I will likely stay away from the news and the fallout.

    It is just horrible and understandable how you feel
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720
    edited December 20

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Bin lorries.
    Bin lorries.
    EV acceleration? I’ve seen some videos where an EV launched off a slope and ended up flying like a missile through the air. If that ended in a crowd….
    Someone working as a doctor for many years doesn't really fit the normal profile for this.

    If there was a bomb in the car then all bets are off, but has that been officially confirmed?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2007_UK_terrorist_incidents
    Yes, I do remember that one.

    It still seems odd to me for someone working as a doctor to flip and kill people in this rather haphazard (and horrific) manner.

    There are plenty of other manners for doctors to do harm...and admittedly plenty of examples.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,074
    edited December 20
    Leon said:

    Re the Saudi attacker in Germany (as per Bild and Welt)

    So he's killed 11 and injired 80 (according to reports), at a Christmas market

    Cui bono? How do Islamists hope to gain from this, or is it simply a nihilistic urge to kill Christians? If it is logical, then to what end?

    If this continues then the inevitable end will be mass deportation of Muslims from Europe. That is obvious. Is that what they want? Why? I don't see anything else emerging as a result

    All they are doing is paving the road to Far Right governments in Europe that are extremely hostile to Islam. I'm genuinely confused. How does that benefit the Islamist cause? Or is there actually no rationale at all?

    Part of Jihadist thinking is to bring The War Between Real (TM) Islam vs The West to a boil.

    So that all Muslims return to The True Faith (bearing wives with sticks, slaughtering Infidels etc) in response to growing intolerance.

    Rather than celebrating Christmas, letting their wives and daughters wear makeup, voting etc etc.

    It’s a rather boring variation on the old idea of the Fuckwit Left to bring on Fascism, so that the People will embrace Lenin on the rebound.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,973
    Best reason to like Starmer I've heard in a while.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,886
    Chris LaCivita is as Trumpian as they come. He wouldn't be on my Christmas card list. If you can take his criticism of Mandelson as another Tory-Farage win, well done and good luck, but Danny the Fink seems to think it is a reasonable appointment.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!

    I call for Musk to put a sock in it, for a couple of days !!!
    I am not sure he listens to anyone including Trump
    You’d think someone that smart would be aware Germany has election in February, Scholz having lost a confidence vote.

    Calling for a pointless gesture is not evidence of political genius.
    He called for support of AFD earlier today before this tragedy

    As I said earlier does Farage really want to be associated with this and take money from Musk ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483

    Leon said:

    Re the Saudi attacker in Germany (as per Bild and Welt)

    So he's killed 11 and injired 80 (according to reports), at a Christmas market

    Cui bono? How do Islamists hope to gain from this, or is it simply a nihilistic urge to kill Christians? If it is logical, then to what end?

    If this continues then the inevitable end will be mass deportation of Muslims from Europe. That is obvious. Is that what they want? Why? I don't see anything else emerging as a result

    All they are doing is paving the road to Far Right governments in Europe that are extremely hostile to Islam. I'm genuinely confused. How does that benefit the Islamist cause? Or is there actually no rationale at all?

    Part of Jihadist thinking is to bring The War Between Real (TM) Islam vs The West to a boil.

    So that all Muslims return to The True Faith (bearing wives with sticks, slaughtering Infidels etc) in response to growing intolerance.

    Rather than celebrating Christmas, letting their wives and daughters wear makeup, voting etc etc.

    It’s a rather boring variation on the old idea of the Fuckwit Left to bring on Fascism, so that the People will embrace Lenin on the rebound.
    Is that it? Genuinely?

    At least you offer a hypothesis, so thankyou, and you could easily be right. Depressing, however

    I am surprised I have not asked this before, I always kinda lazily presumed Islamist attacks were some form of revenge on the west for supporting Israel. Maybe I didn't think hard enough. But anyway I don't believe this Isreal stuff any more. This looks like pure hatred of everything western and an attempt to stir up religious war
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    edited December 20

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Bin lorries.
    Bin lorries.
    EV acceleration? I’ve seen some videos where an EV launched off a slope and ended up flying like a missile through the air. If that ended in a crowd….
    There was a famous one at a Canadian checkpoint last year - though I don't think that was an EV (hybrid, perhaps?). Many people suspected it was terrorism. It was not.

    That sad crash was caught on video, and it is notable how fae the car 'flew' through the air before impact.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/23/us-canada-border-vehicle-crash-explosion
    I posted one - not sure if electric - that went through a gym wall at basically 2nd floor height, after hitting a roundabout.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlSYf99riAg
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    edited December 20
    Nigelb said:

    Guardian reported the likely perpetrator as a Saudi citizen.

    …said to have arrived in Germany in 2006 and worked as a doctor...
    Predating the mass migrations promoted by the destabilisations of Syria and Libya.

    Doesn’t fit anyone’s narrative.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,375
    Well he did try and have her deselected...
  • Chris LaCivita is as Trumpian as they come. He wouldn't be on my Christmas card list. If you can take his criticism of Mandelson as another Tory-Farage win, well done and good luck, but Danny the Fink seems to think it is a reasonable appointment.
    I am only reporting the news - not passing judgment other than asking how much Musks support helps Farage if at all

    As Sky news is on in the background in our home most of the time they are the main source of my posts more often than not with their actual report attached
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Guardian reported the likely perpetrator as a Saudi citizen.

    …said to have arrived in Germany in 2006 and worked as a doctor...
    Predating the mass migrations promoted by the destabilisations of Syria and Libya.

    Doesn’t fit anyone’s narrative.
    He's a Muslim from Saudi. What extra narrative do you need?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,074
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re the Saudi attacker in Germany (as per Bild and Welt)

    So he's killed 11 and injired 80 (according to reports), at a Christmas market

    Cui bono? How do Islamists hope to gain from this, or is it simply a nihilistic urge to kill Christians? If it is logical, then to what end?

    If this continues then the inevitable end will be mass deportation of Muslims from Europe. That is obvious. Is that what they want? Why? I don't see anything else emerging as a result

    All they are doing is paving the road to Far Right governments in Europe that are extremely hostile to Islam. I'm genuinely confused. How does that benefit the Islamist cause? Or is there actually no rationale at all?

    Part of Jihadist thinking is to bring The War Between Real (TM) Islam vs The West to a boil.

    So that all Muslims return to The True Faith (bearing wives with sticks, slaughtering Infidels etc) in response to growing intolerance.

    Rather than celebrating Christmas, letting their wives and daughters wear makeup, voting etc etc.

    It’s a rather boring variation on the old idea of the Fuckwit Left to bring on Fascism, so that the People will embrace Lenin on the rebound.
    Is that it? Genuinely?

    At least you offer a hypothesis, so thankyou, and you could easily be right. Depressing, however

    I am surprised I have not asked this before, I always kinda lazily presumed Islamist attacks were some form of revenge on the west for supporting Israel. Maybe I didn't think hard enough. But anyway I don't believe this Isreal stuff any more. This looks like pure hatred of everything western and an attempt to stir up religious war
    According to actual stuff written by Bin Liner and others, it’s

    - Revenge
    - Acting out Gods will
    - Achieving martyrdom to buck up the Faithful
    - Working towards the Final War between Good and Evil.

    The last is amusing, since in many religions (including some branches of Islam) bringing in the Apocalypse is an action of the Devil and his worshipers
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,256
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Guardian reported the likely perpetrator as a Saudi citizen.

    …said to have arrived in Germany in 2006 and worked as a doctor...
    Predating the mass migrations promoted by the destabilisations of Syria and Libya.

    Doesn’t fit anyone’s narrative.
    It vindicates the people who were against migration from the beginning.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,074
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Bin lorries.
    Bin lorries.
    EV acceleration? I’ve seen some videos where an EV launched off a slope and ended up flying like a missile through the air. If that ended in a crowd….
    There was a famous one at a Canadian checkpoint last year - though I don't think that was an EV (hybrid, perhaps?). Many people suspected it was terrorism. It was not.

    That sad crash was caught on video, and it is notable how fae the car 'flew' through the air before impact.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/23/us-canada-border-vehicle-crash-explosion
    I posted one - not sure if electric - that went through a gym wall at basically 2nd floor height, after hitting a roundabout.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlSYf99riAg
    There was one in LA - a thief stole a Tesla from a valet parking it, went completely GTA.

    Ended up with the crushed remains of the car jammed between two buildings, 15 feet above the ground. Looked like it had gone into a junkyard compactor. The thief survived.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,413
    “Freezing This Christmas” by Sir Starmer & Granny Harmers makes #37 in the Xmas single chart. It remained #1 in sales and in downloads.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,212
    edited December 20

    Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!

    So what?
    Not sure his intervention helps to be fair
    He’s one of those ego journeys that people sometimes go on where they start to believe their own hype until they totally piss someone even more powerful off. The slight frisson here is that question mark in all of our heads as to whether there is actually someone more powerful, or is he it?

    Meanwhile I’m back in France on my way to Bourgogne and staying overnight in the land of the Chtis. And more than ever this region is becoming little England.

    One of the cute quirks of France is that its frontier lands combine Frenchness with a touch of the neighbouring culture. So French Catalonia and the Cote Basque are a bit Basque and Catalan, the coast Eastwards from Nice to Menton is a bit Italian, Savoie is quite Swiss, Alsace is very German (obviously) and Flanders is rather Belgian. The far North is increasingly British.

    Exhibits this evening:

    - This, in a local chain restaurant:



    That’s right folks, they’re advertising authentic British cheddar, not with their “Le Welsh” but with their Chicken salad.
    - the whole of St Quentin, a town with a hollowed out and windswept centre, with a Subway outlet and litter blowing like tumbleweed in the streets, and most of the action happening in suburban chain restaurants including the place we ended up eating (by the way, decent mid range chains are the saviours of French restauration, as they have been in Britain. They will drive people away from lazy mediocre places and force up quality in privately owned restaurants).
    - Youths hanging out with large beers, in the rain, outside a pub whose beer smell you could pick up from many metres away
    - A group of hooded kids, some in baseball caps, gathered around a souped up Renault that had been covered in Christmas fairy lights and was revving.
    - Branches of B&M bargains.

    It made me strangely proud.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,074
    TimS said:

    Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!

    So what?
    Not sure his intervention helps to be fair
    He’s one of those ego journeys that people sometimes go on where they start to believe their own hype until they totally piss someone even more powerful off. The slight frisson here is that question mark in all of our heads as to whether there is actually someone more powerful, or is he it?

    Meanwhile I’m back in France on my way to Bourgogne and staying overnight in the land of the Chtis. And more than ever this region is becoming little England.

    One of the cute quirks of France is that its frontier lands combine Frenchness with a touch of the neighbouring culture. So French Catalonia and the Cote Basque are a bit Basque and Catalan, the coast Eastwards from Nice to Menton is a bit Italian, Savoie is quite Swiss, Alsace is very German (obviously) and Flanders is rather Belgian. The far North is increasingly British.

    Exhibits this evening:

    - This, in a local chain restaurant:



    That’s right folks, they’re advertising authentic British cheddar, not with their “Le Welsh” but with their Chicken salad.
    - the whole of St Quentin, a town with a hollowed out and windswept centre, with a Subway outlet and litter blowing like tumbleweed in the streets, and most of the action happening in suburban chain restaurants including the place we ended up eating (by the way, decent mid range chains are the saviours of French restauration, as they have been in Britain. They will drive people away from lazy mediocre places and force up quality in privately owned restaurants).
    - Youths hanging out with large beers, in the rain, outside a pub whose beer smell you could pick up from many metres away
    - A group of hooded kids, some in baseball caps, gathered around a souped up Renault that had been covered in Christmas fairy lights and was revving.
    - Branches of B&M bargains.

    It made me strangely proud.
    I’ve encountered “proper” Cheddar as ingredient in a number of countries. Even found it in Peruvian food in Peru - and not in Lima…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    edited December 20

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Guardian reported the likely perpetrator as a Saudi citizen.

    …said to have arrived in Germany in 2006 and worked as a doctor...
    Predating the mass migrations promoted by the destabilisations of Syria and Libya.

    Doesn’t fit anyone’s narrative.
    It vindicates the people who were against migration from the beginning.
    2006 had literally the lowest numbers for immigration into Germany over the last three decades.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,413

    Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.

    We have a few miniature sticks on our Christmas tree, albeit not illuminated.
    Whatever happened to sugar mice?
    They’re in the rain?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,212
    Leon said:

    Re the Saudi attacker in Germany (as per Bild and Welt)

    So he's killed 11 and injired 80 (according to reports), at a Christmas market

    Cui bono? How do Islamists hope to gain from this, or is it simply a nihilistic urge to kill Christians? If it is logical, then to what end?

    If this continues then the inevitable end will be mass deportation of Muslims from Europe. That is obvious. Is that what they want? Why? I don't see anything else emerging as a result

    All they are doing is paving the road to Far Right governments in Europe that are extremely hostile to Islam. I'm genuinely confused. How does that benefit the Islamist cause? Or is there actually no rationale at all?

    Chi bono? People who thrive on chaos and conflict, which includes a lot of Jihadis who really couldn’t care less whether there’s a far right government in Germany, in fact they’d probably revel in it because it brings that clash of civilisations closer to realisation, and their counterparts in the likes of AfD who love this kind of thing.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,426
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Bin lorries.
    Bin lorries.
    EV acceleration? I’ve seen some videos where an EV launched off a slope and ended up flying like a missile through the air. If that ended in a crowd….
    There was a famous one at a Canadian checkpoint last year - though I don't think that was an EV (hybrid, perhaps?). Many people suspected it was terrorism. It was not.

    That sad crash was caught on video, and it is notable how fae the car 'flew' through the air before impact.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/23/us-canada-border-vehicle-crash-explosion
    I posted one - not sure if electric - that went through a gym wall at basically 2nd floor height, after hitting a roundabout.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlSYf99riAg
    I remember seeing that one, and the view from inside the gym showing where the car ended up.

    But is that the sort of thing we're seeing with this car's behaviour?

    It'd be interesting to know what the make of car was: apparently they never got to the bottom of what caused the crash at the Canadian border I linked to above (which many called a terrorist incident). But allegedly the couple complained that the car's accelerator had previously got stuck, and Bentley had recently had a recall for stuck accelerators...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,413
    Most reports now have 2 deaths in Magdeburg and 68 injured, including 15 seriously.
  • Driver said:

    Best reason to like Starmer I've heard in a while.
    Best reason to like Diane Abbot that I have EVER heard
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,256
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Guardian reported the likely perpetrator as a Saudi citizen.

    …said to have arrived in Germany in 2006 and worked as a doctor...
    Predating the mass migrations promoted by the destabilisations of Syria and Libya.

    Doesn’t fit anyone’s narrative.
    It vindicates the people who were against migration from the beginning.
    2006 had literally the lowest number for immigration into Germany over the last three decades.
    There’s a reason that the policy objective now is remigration and not lower immigration.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,886

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Guardian reported the likely perpetrator as a Saudi citizen.

    …said to have arrived in Germany in 2006 and worked as a doctor...
    Predating the mass migrations promoted by the destabilisations of Syria and Libya.

    Doesn’t fit anyone’s narrative.
    It vindicates the people who were against migration from the beginning.
    You've taken an act of tragic insanity and made an over simplistic extrapolation. It is what you lot on the far right do. Like Farage quoting Andrew Tate's bollocks after the outrage in Southport.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,212
    Maybe one of our successful businessmen, Jim Ratcliffe say, should chime in with partisan political recommendations every time there’s a mass shooting with equivalent mortality in America. He might get a bit tired of it after a few days though,
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,471
    TimS said:

    Musk calls for Scholz to resign !!!!

    So what?
    Not sure his intervention helps to be fair
    He’s one of those ego journeys that people sometimes go on where they start to believe their own hype until they totally piss someone even more powerful off. The slight frisson here is that question mark in all of our heads as to whether there is actually someone more powerful, or is he it?

    Meanwhile I’m back in France on my way to Bourgogne and staying overnight in the land of the Chtis. And more than ever this region is becoming little England.

    One of the cute quirks of France is that its frontier lands combine Frenchness with a touch of the neighbouring culture. So French Catalonia and the Cote Basque are a bit Basque and Catalan, the coast Eastwards from Nice to Menton is a bit Italian, Savoie is quite Swiss, Alsace is very German (obviously) and Flanders is rather Belgian. The far North is increasingly British.

    Exhibits this evening:

    - This, in a local chain restaurant:



    That’s right folks, they’re advertising authentic British cheddar, not with their “Le Welsh” but with their Chicken salad.
    - the whole of St Quentin, a town with a hollowed out and windswept centre, with a Subway outlet and litter blowing like tumbleweed in the streets, and most of the action happening in suburban chain restaurants including the place we ended up eating (by the way, decent mid range chains are the saviours of French restauration, as they have been in Britain. They will drive people away from lazy mediocre places and force up quality in privately owned restaurants).
    - Youths hanging out with large beers, in the rain, outside a pub whose beer smell you could pick up from many metres away
    - A group of hooded kids, some in baseball caps, gathered around a souped up Renault that had been covered in Christmas fairy lights and was revving.
    - Branches of B&M bargains.

    It made me strangely proud.
    St Quentin you've been living Hell to me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    If they are ex mp's voters have judged them unfit to govern so you put them back in a government role in the lords....thats what is wrong
    I was thinking about that when I saw Thangam Debbonaire’s (sp?) name on the list. I’d rather see her back in the Commons, but she seems to be a sensible woman and an asset to Parliament.
    An indication that Labour don’t expect to win the seat back anytime soon.
    Well, it did go Green during a Labour landslide, they aren't getting it back until the Green bubble pops.

    To their credit the Greens well exceeded my expectations, I thought they'd only get 1 seat, if that, not 4, it will be interesting if they can maintain that, especially with Labour expected to do worse.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    For balance, I should say this CAN be fixed

    The UKPO - the passport office - was fricking terrible for a while. Now they are super efficient. I've heard this from multiple sources, and experienced it myself. Personal phone calls the next day, and results within a week

    Whatever happened at the UKPO, apply it to the HMRC

    (Glaswegian here, who knows people who work at the Glasgow UKPO).

    They hired a decent amount of staff to cover the demand.

    It's a crazy off-the-wall idea, but seems to have worked on this one occassion.
    People tend to talk past each other on these matters (as with many others of course). You will have people insist money/people is always the answer, even if things are systemically inefficient and unproductive, but then you have the other people who implicitly appear to see any level of employment or pay for people in the public sector as somethign to be avoided.

    So it is probably easy to fall into the traps of hollowing out an organisation or uselessly dousing them with money.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483
    TimS said:

    Maybe one of our successful businessmen, Jim Ratcliffe say, should chime in with partisan political recommendations every time there’s a mass shooting with equivalent mortality in America. He might get a bit tired of it after a few days though,

    Musk is a lot smarter than you, my friend, and a lot smarter than "Jim Ratcliffe"

    He can see where we're headed. But you need an IQ of 134.7 - just slightly whoosh for you - and an open mind (no chance of that, with you)

    However, he is wrong on the AfD
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    Tomorrow marks the centenary of the NYT’s “Hitler tamed by Prison” article.
    https://x.com/EricColumbus/status/1870166834818761112
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,886
    edited December 20

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Guardian reported the likely perpetrator as a Saudi citizen.

    …said to have arrived in Germany in 2006 and worked as a doctor...
    Predating the mass migrations promoted by the destabilisations of Syria and Libya.

    Doesn’t fit anyone’s narrative.
    It vindicates the people who were against migration from the beginning.
    2006 had literally the lowest number for immigration into Germany over the last three decades.
    There’s a reason that the policy objective now is remigration and not lower immigration.
    How did you respond when a white redneck drove his Dodge Challenger at speed into a crowd a couple of years ago?

    You should be condemning both without prompt rather than just the one involving brown people.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,575
    GIN1138 said:

    Well he did try and have her deselected...
    Having won that battle against him I wonder if she'll join Corbyn's mooted new party, or realise she'll annoy Starmer more by sticking it out.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,483

    Most reports now have 2 deaths in Magdeburg and 68 injured, including 15 seriously.

    Great, do keep us posted on your creepily reduced Islamist-murder death toll. You are providing a vital service
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