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The end of the enlightenment – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,164
edited 6:33AM in General
The end of the enlightenment – politicalbetting.com

President-elect Donald Trump has picked Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to be his next Department of Health and Human Services secretary. Kennedy, a prominent anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist, has accepted. https://t.co/GYaVudFj5Y pic.twitter.com/nlwhpIwIff

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,670
    edited November 15
    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,366
    Roy Moore to SCOTUS.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 511
    These nominations still require Senate approval though. He could just be "rewarding" loyal supporters assuming that the Senate will block them and sigh in relief at slightly less terrifying alternatives.
    A strong start though, infighting in the Senate GOP, based on his first term some of these appointees may only last a few weeks or months.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,991

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    The good news is that since it takes 6 weeks to cross the Atlantic by sailing ship, there is little chance of infectious diseases spreading from America as a result of a lack of vaccination or quarantines.

    If some of that SciFi nonsense about powered flight came true, things would be different. Why, in such a world, flu variants might be spread by aeronauts!!!
    I have recently read Malcolm Gladwell's latest book, Revenge of the Tipping Point.

    Loads of fascinating stuff, as always, but a couple of things that are relevant to this discussion.

    The first is the spread of Covid. It turns out that not only were different variants more or less effective at spreading, some infected people are MUCH more infectious than others. In particular, dehydration makes people more infectious, for example people who have just got off long International flights.

    The other is the anti-vaxing. There are cluster of parents who send their kids to a specific type of school who don't vaccinate their kids. And their kids get all the diseases as a result.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    Did the US Department of Health play any role in supporting the development of Covid vaccines?

    This could affect the development of vaccines in response to the next pandemic.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    It's the removal of fluoride which is the interesting one to me. Given that the US has multiple political experiments that show how useful it is..
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,991
    Dopermean said:

    These nominations still require Senate approval though. He could just be "rewarding" loyal supporters assuming that the Senate will block them and sigh in relief at slightly less terrifying alternatives.

    If the GOP don't nod them through Trump will suspend the Senate and make them recess appointments.

    Remember, the rules don't apply
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    Dopermean said:

    These nominations still require Senate approval though. He could just be "rewarding" loyal supporters assuming that the Senate will block them and sigh in relief at slightly less terrifying alternatives.
    A strong start though, infighting in the Senate GOP, based on his first term some of these appointees may only last a few weeks or months.

    Elon has been clear that if you don't accept the proposals you will have a competitor in the primary with enough money to utterly defeat you - we discussed that I think on Wednesday.

    So yes you can reject these candidates if you are happy for your political career to end in 2 years time.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,991
    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    These nominations still require Senate approval though. He could just be "rewarding" loyal supporters assuming that the Senate will block them and sigh in relief at slightly less terrifying alternatives.
    A strong start though, infighting in the Senate GOP, based on his first term some of these appointees may only last a few weeks or months.

    Elon has been clear that if you don't accept the proposals you will have a competitor in the primary with enough money to utterly defeat you - we discussed that I think on Wednesday.

    So yes you can reject these candidates if you are happy for your political career to end in 2 years time.

    That does of course assume Elon and Donny are still pals in 2 years time. Not a given...
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 511
    In other news, I wonder whether Jenrick had any previous connections to the beneficiaries of Bexley LLP?

    Other "cambridge-educated lawyers" in the news this week... John Smyth
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,991
    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option.

    The counterfactual to that is Brexit.

    There was no problem with being a member of the EU that Brexit actually solved.

    The populist right made a lot of noise, got their way, and it's shit.

    Murica is about to enter the Find Out phase of the same process...
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    So the German election is now going to be the 23rd February - just 4 days before Weiberfastnacht and carnival. WTF. For much of the Rhineland this is like having an election the weekend before christmas - worse in that carnival is a way bigger deal than christmas in many places.

    Not going down well round here.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Thankfully childhood vaccines are for the States to administer, rather than the Federal government.

    Kennedy’s other ideas, from implementing European food standards in the US to getting the big money out of the healthcare industry, are things that are much less controversial to the American people.

    Here’s Trump’s and RFK’s statements following his nomination: no mention of vaccines.

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1857170020427595797
    I am thrilled to announce Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as The United States Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). For too long, Americans have been crushed by the industrial food complex and drug companies who have engaged in deception, misinformation, and disinformation when it comes to Public Health. The Safety and Health of all Americans is the most important role of any Administration, and HHS will play a big role in helping ensure that everybody will be protected from harmful chemicals, pollutants, pesticides, pharmaceutical products, and food additives that have contributed to the overwhelming Health Crisis in this Country. Mr. Kennedy will restore these Agencies to the traditions of Gold Standard Scientific Research, and beacons of Transparency, to end the Chronic Disease epidemic, and to Make America Great and Healthy Again!

    https://x.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1857198805919138235
    Thank you @realDonaldTrump for your leadership and courage. I'm committed to advancing your vision to Make America Healthy Again.

    We have a generational opportunity to bring together the greatest minds in science, medicine, industry, and government to put an end to the chronic disease epidemic.

    I look forward to working with the more than 80,000 employees at HHS to free the agencies from the smothering cloud of corporate capture so they can pursue their mission to make Americans once again the healthiest people on Earth.

    Together we will clean up corruption, stop the revolving door between industry and government, and return our health agencies to their rich tradition of gold-standard, evidence-based science. I will provide Americans with transparency and access to all the data so they can make informed choices for themselves and their families.

    My commitment to the American people is to be an honest public servant. Let’s go!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    Mr. Kamski, cheers for the info on the German election date. Any thoughts on how it might pan out? Will the trend of incumbents getting a kicking continue?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,092
    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    These nominations still require Senate approval though. He could just be "rewarding" loyal supporters assuming that the Senate will block them and sigh in relief at slightly less terrifying alternatives.
    A strong start though, infighting in the Senate GOP, based on his first term some of these appointees may only last a few weeks or months.

    Elon has been clear that if you don't accept the proposals you will have a competitor in the primary with enough money to utterly defeat you - we discussed that I think on Wednesday.

    So yes you can reject these candidates if you are happy for your political career to end in 2 years time.

    Senators face re-election every 6 years. Those just elected will be there longer than Trump.

    Trump has tried threatening to primary recalcitrant Senators before with varied success. Some MAGA primary candidates crashed and burned, although others were more successful. Musk brings more money to the table, but Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski don’t have much to worry about for starters.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078
    Sean_F said:

    Roy Moore to SCOTUS.

    I think Aileen is pencilled in for that.
    Similarly qualified.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    kamski said:

    So the German election is now going to be the 23rd February - just 4 days before Weiberfastnacht and carnival. WTF. For much of the Rhineland this is like having an election the weekend before christmas - worse in that carnival is a way bigger deal than christmas in many places.

    Not going down well round here.

    Given Scholz has lost confidence, why is the election not still for three and a half months?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    RobD said:

    kamski said:

    So the German election is now going to be the 23rd February - just 4 days before Weiberfastnacht and carnival. WTF. For much of the Rhineland this is like having an election the weekend before christmas - worse in that carnival is a way bigger deal than christmas in many places.

    Not going down well round here.

    Given Scholz has lost confidence, why is the election not still for three and a half months?
    German efficiency...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078
    Dopermean said:

    These nominations still require Senate approval though. He could just be "rewarding" loyal supporters assuming that the Senate will block them and sigh in relief at slightly less terrifying alternatives.
    A strong start though, infighting in the Senate GOP, based on his first term some of these appointees may only last a few weeks or months.

    We will see.
    I think he's deadly serious, and the Senate may just buckle. No way do they reject all of them; they aren't brave enough.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,092

    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    These nominations still require Senate approval though. He could just be "rewarding" loyal supporters assuming that the Senate will block them and sigh in relief at slightly less terrifying alternatives.
    A strong start though, infighting in the Senate GOP, based on his first term some of these appointees may only last a few weeks or months.

    Elon has been clear that if you don't accept the proposals you will have a competitor in the primary with enough money to utterly defeat you - we discussed that I think on Wednesday.

    So yes you can reject these candidates if you are happy for your political career to end in 2 years time.

    Senators face re-election every 6 years. Those just elected will be there longer than Trump.

    Trump has tried threatening to primary recalcitrant Senators before with varied success. Some MAGA primary candidates crashed and burned, although others were more successful. Musk brings more money to the table, but Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski don’t have much to worry about for starters.
    Also 33 Senators are in their seventies, 5 in their eighties and 1 is in his nineties (current Senators, prior to those elected this month taking their seats). Plenty of Senators are not thinking about re-election.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,599
    Sandpit said:

    Thankfully childhood vaccines are for the States to administer, rather than the Federal government.

    Kennedy’s other ideas, from implementing European food standards in the US to getting the big money out of the healthcare industry, are things that are much less controversial to the American people.

    Here’s Trump’s and RFK’s statements following his nomination: no mention of vaccines.

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1857170020427595797
    I am thrilled to announce Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as The United States Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). For too long, Americans have been crushed by the industrial food complex and drug companies who have engaged in deception, misinformation, and disinformation when it comes to Public Health. The Safety and Health of all Americans is the most important role of any Administration, and HHS will play a big role in helping ensure that everybody will be protected from harmful chemicals, pollutants, pesticides, pharmaceutical products, and food additives that have contributed to the overwhelming Health Crisis in this Country. Mr. Kennedy will restore these Agencies to the traditions of Gold Standard Scientific Research, and beacons of Transparency, to end the Chronic Disease epidemic, and to Make America Great and Healthy Again!

    https://x.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1857198805919138235
    (Snip)

    You miss the point. RFK Jr's anti-vax standpoint has already cost health and life to people. It is anti-science, and it will be hard for him to shift position to one that is actually pro-vaccine and pro-health. The fact he did not mention vaccines is worrying, as it gives no indication that he has changed his position on it.

    Also note the 'protection from harmful chemicals'. Which is the sort of phrasing that he uses about vaccines...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,366
    edited November 15
    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option. The 'liberal establishment' has made mistake after mistake. It goes in to military conflicts with no strategic plan. It supports unlimited illegal immigration 'we can do this!' and then cannot integrate the immigrants in question.

    “Everything has failed for the last 20 years, and no one has any plan, other than to just keep things running, keep the plates spinning, kick the can down the road. Every time you listen to a member of the liberal elite, they set out an excellent analysis of the problems, but then come to a conclusion like 'we have to face up to difficult questions' , or 'we all have to try harder'.

    “In 2020 the liberal elite went completely insane and lost all its credibility, like when it supported superspreader events (mass protests) in the covid pandemic on the grounds that they have 'public health benefits', also supporting riots on grounds of stopping racism, etc. Against the backdrop of all this Trump appears sane and coherant.

    “In the end it doesn't really matter. We don't know what the counterfactual scenario is (where Harris won) but the likelihood is that it would have been a disaster which has now been avoided, although Trump could well turn out to be a disaster too.”

    👏👏👏👏

    I think a lot of people on both right and left can see what *needs* to be done.

    Increase child benefit; scrap the triple lock and abolish free prescriptions for those aged 60-65; build lots of infrastructure and housing; cut back the Due Process State; stop rewarding failure; scrap laws that require public bodies to conduct impact assessments before taking decisions.

    But, they fear electoral consequences of doing so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078
    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    These nominations still require Senate approval though. He could just be "rewarding" loyal supporters assuming that the Senate will block them and sigh in relief at slightly less terrifying alternatives.
    A strong start though, infighting in the Senate GOP, based on his first term some of these appointees may only last a few weeks or months.

    Elon has been clear that if you don't accept the proposals you will have a competitor in the primary with enough money to utterly defeat you - we discussed that I think on Wednesday.

    So yes you can reject these candidates if you are happy for your political career to end in 2 years time.

    Senators have six year terms.

    Musk buying seats might work in safe red states; less so in contested ones. For a lot of GOP senators, that shouldn't be a particularly credible threat. If they choose to give in, that's on them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Marjorie Taylor Greene isn’t going to be the CIA director, that’s going to be Kash Patel.

    https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1856347293441466514
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,271
    Nigelb said:

    Dopermean said:

    These nominations still require Senate approval though. He could just be "rewarding" loyal supporters assuming that the Senate will block them and sigh in relief at slightly less terrifying alternatives.
    A strong start though, infighting in the Senate GOP, based on his first term some of these appointees may only last a few weeks or months.

    We will see.
    I think he's deadly serious, and the Senate may just buckle. No way do they reject all of them; they aren't brave enough.
    Probably the food standards stuff will do for RFK at the confirmation hearings. If anything does.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Sandpit said:

    Thankfully childhood vaccines are for the States to administer, rather than the Federal government.

    Kennedy’s other ideas, from implementing European food standards in the US to getting the big money out of the healthcare industry, are things that are much less controversial to the American people.

    Here’s Trump’s and RFK’s statements following his nomination: no mention of vaccines.

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1857170020427595797
    I am thrilled to announce Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as The United States Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). For too long, Americans have been crushed by the industrial food complex and drug companies who have engaged in deception, misinformation, and disinformation when it comes to Public Health. The Safety and Health of all Americans is the most important role of any Administration, and HHS will play a big role in helping ensure that everybody will be protected from harmful chemicals, pollutants, pesticides, pharmaceutical products, and food additives that have contributed to the overwhelming Health Crisis in this Country. Mr. Kennedy will restore these Agencies to the traditions of Gold Standard Scientific Research, and beacons of Transparency, to end the Chronic Disease epidemic, and to Make America Great and Healthy Again!

    https://x.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1857198805919138235
    Thank you @realDonaldTrump for your leadership and courage. I'm committed to advancing your vision to Make America Healthy Again.

    We have a generational opportunity to bring together the greatest minds in science, medicine, industry, and government to put an end to the chronic disease epidemic.

    I look forward to working with the more than 80,000 employees at HHS to free the agencies from the smothering cloud of corporate capture so they can pursue their mission to make Americans once again the healthiest people on Earth.

    Together we will clean up corruption, stop the revolving door between industry and government, and return our health agencies to their rich tradition of gold-standard, evidence-based science. I will provide Americans with transparency and access to all the data so they can make informed choices for themselves and their families.

    My commitment to the American people is to be an honest public servant. Let’s go!

    Desperate stuff. The dude is full of shit.

    His own lying antivax "Children's Health Defense" organisation paid him over half a million bucks in 2023.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,599
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option.

    The counterfactual to that is Brexit.

    There was no problem with being a member of the EU that Brexit actually solved.

    The populist right made a lot of noise, got their way, and it's shit.

    Murica is about to enter the Find Out phase of the same process...
    Jesus Fucking Christ STFU about Brexit
    Jesus Fucking Christ STFU about your holidays.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078
    Sandpit said:

    Thankfully childhood vaccines are for the States to administer, rather than the Federal government.

    Kennedy’s other ideas, from implementing European food standards in the US to getting the big money out of the healthcare industry, are things that are much less controversial to the American people.

    Here’s Trump’s and RFK’s statements following his nomination: no mention of vaccines.

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1857170020427595797
    I am thrilled to announce Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as The United States Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). For too long, Americans have been crushed by the industrial food complex and drug companies who have engaged in deception, misinformation, and disinformation when it comes to Public Health. The Safety and Health of all Americans is the most important role of any Administration, and HHS will play a big role in helping ensure that everybody will be protected from harmful chemicals, pollutants, pesticides, pharmaceutical products, and food additives that have contributed to the overwhelming Health Crisis in this Country. Mr. Kennedy will restore these Agencies to the traditions of Gold Standard Scientific Research, and beacons of Transparency, to end the Chronic Disease epidemic, and to Make America Great and Healthy Again!

    https://x.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1857198805919138235
    Thank you @realDonaldTrump for your leadership and courage. I'm committed to advancing your vision to Make America Healthy Again.

    We have a generational opportunity to bring together the greatest minds in science, medicine, industry, and government to put an end to the chronic disease epidemic.

    I look forward to working with the more than 80,000 employees at HHS to free the agencies from the smothering cloud of corporate capture so they can pursue their mission to make Americans once again the healthiest people on Earth.

    Together we will clean up corruption, stop the revolving door between industry and government, and return our health agencies to their rich tradition of gold-standard, evidence-based science. I will provide Americans with transparency and access to all the data so they can make informed choices for themselves and their families.

    My commitment to the American people is to be an honest public servant. Let’s go!

    Since when did RFK accept "evidence based science" ?
    Another lying grifter. Just madder than most.

    And a vile human being, to boot.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Oh...

    https://x.com/ONS/status/1857317678517502085

    GDP fell 0.1% in September 2024, largely due to falls in manufacturing and IT.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,271
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Thankfully childhood vaccines are for the States to administer, rather than the Federal government.

    Kennedy’s other ideas, from implementing European food standards in the US to getting the big money out of the healthcare industry, are things that are much less controversial to the American people.

    Here’s Trump’s and RFK’s statements following his nomination: no mention of vaccines.

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1857170020427595797
    I am thrilled to announce Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as The United States Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). For too long, Americans have been crushed by the industrial food complex and drug companies who have engaged in deception, misinformation, and disinformation when it comes to Public Health. The Safety and Health of all Americans is the most important role of any Administration, and HHS will play a big role in helping ensure that everybody will be protected from harmful chemicals, pollutants, pesticides, pharmaceutical products, and food additives that have contributed to the overwhelming Health Crisis in this Country. Mr. Kennedy will restore these Agencies to the traditions of Gold Standard Scientific Research, and beacons of Transparency, to end the Chronic Disease epidemic, and to Make America Great and Healthy Again!

    https://x.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1857198805919138235
    Thank you @realDonaldTrump for your leadership and courage. I'm committed to advancing your vision to Make America Healthy Again.

    We have a generational opportunity to bring together the greatest minds in science, medicine, industry, and government to put an end to the chronic disease epidemic.

    I look forward to working with the more than 80,000 employees at HHS to free the agencies from the smothering cloud of corporate capture so they can pursue their mission to make Americans once again the healthiest people on Earth.

    Together we will clean up corruption, stop the revolving door between industry and government, and return our health agencies to their rich tradition of gold-standard, evidence-based science. I will provide Americans with transparency and access to all the data so they can make informed choices for themselves and their families.

    My commitment to the American people is to be an honest public servant. Let’s go!

    Since when did RFK accept "evidence based science" ?
    Another lying grifter. Just madder than most.

    And a vile human being, to boot.
    Why are you so kind to him?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option.

    The counterfactual to that is Brexit.

    There was no problem with being a member of the EU that Brexit actually solved.

    The populist right made a lot of noise, got their way, and it's shit.

    Murica is about to enter the Find Out phase of the same process...
    Jesus Fucking Christ STFU about Brexit
    Radical free speech Leon speaks.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,972
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    It's the removal of fluoride which is the interesting one to me. Given that the US has multiple political experiments that show how useful it is..
    Does this mean Yanks are now going to have British teeth? One small step in the return of the colony to the mother country.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078
    Sandpit said:

    Marjorie Taylor Greene isn’t going to be the CIA director, that’s going to be Kash Patel.

    https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1856347293441466514

    Yes, MTG would be a comparatively sane pick.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,092
    Sandpit said:

    Thankfully childhood vaccines are for the States to administer, rather than the Federal government.

    Kennedy’s other ideas, from implementing European food standards in the US to getting the big money out of the healthcare industry, are things that are much less controversial to the American people.

    Here’s Trump’s and RFK’s statements following his nomination: no mention of vaccines.

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1857170020427595797
    I am thrilled to announce Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as The United States Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). For too long, Americans have been crushed by the industrial food complex and drug companies who have engaged in deception, misinformation, and disinformation when it comes to Public Health. The Safety and Health of all Americans is the most important role of any Administration, and HHS will play a big role in helping ensure that everybody will be protected from harmful chemicals, pollutants, pesticides, pharmaceutical products, and food additives that have contributed to the overwhelming Health Crisis in this Country. Mr. Kennedy will restore these Agencies to the traditions of Gold Standard Scientific Research, and beacons of Transparency, to end the Chronic Disease epidemic, and to Make America Great and Healthy Again!

    https://x.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1857198805919138235
    Thank you @realDonaldTrump for your leadership and courage. I'm committed to advancing your vision to Make America Healthy Again.

    We have a generational opportunity to bring together the greatest minds in science, medicine, industry, and government to put an end to the chronic disease epidemic.

    I look forward to working with the more than 80,000 employees at HHS to free the agencies from the smothering cloud of corporate capture so they can pursue their mission to make Americans once again the healthiest people on Earth.

    Together we will clean up corruption, stop the revolving door between industry and government, and return our health agencies to their rich tradition of gold-standard, evidence-based science. I will provide Americans with transparency and access to all the data so they can make informed choices for themselves and their families.

    My commitment to the American people is to be an honest public servant. Let’s go!

    The states are in charge of childhood vaccination programmes, but the FDA is in charge of what drugs, including vaccines, are licensed for use.

    Your faith in RFK is touching. In July 2023, Kennedy said, “there is an argument that [COVID-19] is ethnically targeted” and that “COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and Black people. The people who are the most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese ... we don't know whether it's deliberately targeted or not.” He’s repeated claims that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS. Do you really think this man is a good choice as Health Secretary?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,271
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option. The 'liberal establishment' has made mistake after mistake. It goes in to military conflicts with no strategic plan. It supports unlimited illegal immigration 'we can do this!' and then cannot integrate the immigrants in question.

    “Everything has failed for the last 20 years, and no one has any plan, other than to just keep things running, keep the plates spinning, kick the can down the road. Every time you listen to a member of the liberal elite, they set out an excellent analysis of the problems, but then come to a conclusion like 'we have to face up to difficult questions' , or 'we all have to try harder'.

    “In 2020 the liberal elite went completely insane and lost all its credibility, like when it supported superspreader events (mass protests) in the covid pandemic on the grounds that they have 'public health benefits', also supporting riots on grounds of stopping racism, etc. Against the backdrop of all this Trump appears sane and coherant.

    “In the end it doesn't really matter. We don't know what the counterfactual scenario is (where Harris won) but the likelihood is that it would have been a disaster which has now been avoided, although Trump could well turn out to be a disaster too.”

    👏👏👏👏

    I think a lot of people on both right and left can see what *needs* to be done.

    Increase child benefit; scrap the triple lock and abolish free prescriptions for those aged 60-65; build lots of infrastructure and housing; cut back the Due Process State; stop rewarding failure; scrap laws that require public bodies to conduct impact assessments before taking decisions.

    But, they fear electoral consequences of doing so.
    You forgot, as part of reducing the volume of regulation, massively increasing enforcement.

    The problem is that we have vast rule sets that are ignored by most, broken by a few. Useless. What we need is simpler, clearer, shorter rules - actually enforced.

    So “Don’t use fire lighters as a permanent part of residential buildings” and an inspectorate that detects fire lighters in building and sends people to prison for adding them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    The good news is that since it takes 6 weeks to cross the Atlantic by sailing ship, there is little chance of infectious diseases spreading from America as a result of a lack of vaccination or quarantines.

    If some of that SciFi nonsense about powered flight came true, things would be different. Why, in such a world, flu variants might be spread by aeronauts!!!
    That's not true of long-term chronic infections. Syphilis waves a flagella ...
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 181
    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option. The 'liberal establishment' has made mistake after mistake. It goes in to military conflicts with no strategic plan. It supports unlimited illegal immigration 'we can do this!' and then cannot integrate the immigrants in question.

    “Everything has failed for the last 20 years, and no one has any plan, other than to just keep things running, keep the plates spinning, kick the can down the road. Every time you listen to a member of the liberal elite, they set out an excellent analysis of the problems, but then come to a conclusion like 'we have to face up to difficult questions' , or 'we all have to try harder'.

    “In 2020 the liberal elite went completely insane and lost all its credibility, like when it supported superspreader events (mass protests) in the covid pandemic on the grounds that they have 'public health benefits', also supporting riots on grounds of stopping racism, etc. Against the backdrop of all this Trump appears sane and coherant.

    “In the end it doesn't really matter. We don't know what the counterfactual scenario is (where Harris won) but the likelihood is that it would have been a disaster which has now been avoided, although Trump could well turn out to be a disaster too.”

    👏👏👏👏

    Substitute "Socialism", "Corbynism", "Militant" or indeed "Facism" with "populist right" to see how cretinous this logical fallacy this makes you look.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    Not if they lower food standards and then try to impose them on us ...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option.

    The counterfactual to that is Brexit.

    There was no problem with being a member of the EU that Brexit actually solved.

    The populist right made a lot of noise, got their way, and it's shit.

    Murica is about to enter the Find Out phase of the same process...
    Jesus Fucking Christ STFU about Brexit
    Radical free speech Leon speaks.
    I don't think Leon is saying that it should be illegal for Scott to talk about Brexit. Just that he might prefer it if he chose not to.
    This is what people misunderstand about free speech. I'd prefer (perhaps quite strongly) you not to say that <> it ought to be illegal to say that. See also Celtic fans on Rememberance Day, or indeed much of what football fans say.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,400
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Marjorie Taylor Greene isn’t going to be the CIA director, that’s going to be Kash Patel.

    https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1856347293441466514

    Yes, MTG would be a comparatively sane pick.
    Instead he's chosen a series of insane pricks.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671
    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option. The 'liberal establishment' has made mistake after mistake. It goes in to military conflicts with no strategic plan. It supports unlimited illegal immigration 'we can do this!' and then cannot integrate the immigrants in question.

    “Everything has failed for the last 20 years, and no one has any plan, other than to just keep things running, keep the plates spinning, kick the can down the road. Every time you listen to a member of the liberal elite, they set out an excellent analysis of the problems, but then come to a conclusion like 'we have to face up to difficult questions' , or 'we all have to try harder'.

    “In 2020 the liberal elite went completely insane and lost all its credibility, like when it supported superspreader events (mass protests) in the covid pandemic on the grounds that they have 'public health benefits', also supporting riots on grounds of stopping racism, etc. Against the backdrop of all this Trump appears sane and coherant.

    “In the end it doesn't really matter. We don't know what the counterfactual scenario is (where Harris won) but the likelihood is that it would have been a disaster which has now been avoided, although Trump could well turn out to be a disaster too.”

    👏👏👏👏

    "Trump could well turn out to be a disaster too".

    This feels a bit like the early days of Truss - furtive backpedalling as people realise it could all be a disaster, coupled with "they made us vote for him!".
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,415

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    It's the removal of fluoride which is the interesting one to me. Given that the US has multiple political experiments that show how useful it is..
    Does this mean Yanks are now going to have British teeth? One small step in the return of the colony to the mother country.
    So they're all off to Turkey for a dental makeover too ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Meanwhile, commentators close to Trump think that we’re still at the beginning of the appointments:



    https://x.com/jackposobiec/status/1857300981362438566
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,670
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Marjorie Taylor Greene isn’t going to be the CIA director, that’s going to be Kash Patel.

    https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1856347293441466514

    Yes, MTG would be a comparatively sane pick.
    MTG to NASA. We need someone in charge there who can deal with the Jewish Space Laser menace.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,271
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    Not if they lower food standards and then try to impose them on us ...
    RFK claims to want “European Food Standards”

    Part of the anti-vax thing is that it grows out of concern for chemicals in food, water etc.

    Some people start with this, quite sensible, position, then spiral into the madness.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    Not if they lower food standards and then try to impose them on us ...
    Kennedy has campaigned on raising US food standards. There’s all sorts of crap in American food that is banned in Europe.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    RobD said:

    kamski said:

    So the German election is now going to be the 23rd February - just 4 days before Weiberfastnacht and carnival. WTF. For much of the Rhineland this is like having an election the weekend before christmas - worse in that carnival is a way bigger deal than christmas in many places.

    Not going down well round here.

    Given Scholz has lost confidence, why is the election not still for three and a half months?
    There has been no confidence vote. It's not until December 16th.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,271
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    The good news is that since it takes 6 weeks to cross the Atlantic by sailing ship, there is little chance of infectious diseases spreading from America as a result of a lack of vaccination or quarantines.

    If some of that SciFi nonsense about powered flight came true, things would be different. Why, in such a world, flu variants might be spread by aeronauts!!!
    That's not true of long-term chronic infections. Syphilis waves a flagella ...
    Oh true - I was just a bit surprised by the suggestion from a medico that this would have no effect on us.

    Back to the days of immigration officials checking your vaccinations?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    kamski said:

    RobD said:

    kamski said:

    So the German election is now going to be the 23rd February - just 4 days before Weiberfastnacht and carnival. WTF. For much of the Rhineland this is like having an election the weekend before christmas - worse in that carnival is a way bigger deal than christmas in many places.

    Not going down well round here.

    Given Scholz has lost confidence, why is the election not still for three and a half months?
    There has been no confidence vote. It's not until December 16th.
    How come it takes more than a month to organise a vote of confidence in the government in Germany?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    kamski said:

    RobD said:

    kamski said:

    So the German election is now going to be the 23rd February - just 4 days before Weiberfastnacht and carnival. WTF. For much of the Rhineland this is like having an election the weekend before christmas - worse in that carnival is a way bigger deal than christmas in many places.

    Not going down well round here.

    Given Scholz has lost confidence, why is the election not still for three and a half months?
    There has been no confidence vote. It's not until December 16th.
    Huh? How is that possible if the coalition collapsed? You'd think the opposition would be chomping at the bit to table such a vote.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option.

    The counterfactual to that is Brexit.

    There was no problem with being a member of the EU that Brexit actually solved.

    The populist right made a lot of noise, got their way, and it's shit.

    Murica is about to enter the Find Out phase of the same process...
    Jesus Fucking Christ STFU about Brexit
    Good job you don’t return obsessively to the same topics.
    Thing is, I have about 17 “obsessions” so you get a delightful variety of monomania, a guy who can rant in umpteen languages and even sing some of them in operatic style

    With @Scott_xP it is the same, the same, the same. It is one subject spoken in one monotone in one autistic style, devoid of wit charm intelligence or insight, and delivered with hideous regularity

    Experiencing the commentary of Scott_xP since 2016 is like being constantly rapped on the head with a small hand-made wooden penguin, in the exact same spot, every hour on the hour, for eight years

    In the end you just want the guy with the wooden penguin to REDACTED
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option. The 'liberal establishment' has made mistake after mistake. It goes in to military conflicts with no strategic plan. It supports unlimited illegal immigration 'we can do this!' and then cannot integrate the immigrants in question.

    “Everything has failed for the last 20 years, and no one has any plan, other than to just keep things running, keep the plates spinning, kick the can down the road. Every time you listen to a member of the liberal elite, they set out an excellent analysis of the problems, but then come to a conclusion like 'we have to face up to difficult questions' , or 'we all have to try harder'.

    “In 2020 the liberal elite went completely insane and lost all its credibility, like when it supported superspreader events (mass protests) in the covid pandemic on the grounds that they have 'public health benefits', also supporting riots on grounds of stopping racism, etc. Against the backdrop of all this Trump appears sane and coherant.

    “In the end it doesn't really matter. We don't know what the counterfactual scenario is (where Harris won) but the likelihood is that it would have been a disaster which has now been avoided, although Trump could well turn out to be a disaster too.”

    👏👏👏👏

    I think a lot of people on both right and left can see what *needs* to be done.

    Increase child benefit; scrap the triple lock and abolish free prescriptions for those aged 60-65; build lots of infrastructure and housing; cut back the Due Process State; stop rewarding failure; scrap laws that require public bodies to conduct impact assessments before taking decisions.

    But, they fear electoral consequences of doing so.
    I think we are way past those modest remedies
  • RobD said:

    kamski said:

    RobD said:

    kamski said:

    So the German election is now going to be the 23rd February - just 4 days before Weiberfastnacht and carnival. WTF. For much of the Rhineland this is like having an election the weekend before christmas - worse in that carnival is a way bigger deal than christmas in many places.

    Not going down well round here.

    Given Scholz has lost confidence, why is the election not still for three and a half months?
    There has been no confidence vote. It's not until December 16th.
    Huh? How is that possible if the coalition collapsed? You'd think the opposition would be chomping at the bit to table such a vote.
    Is there a hope that the current government can pull it back from the brink? Basically giving the FDP enough time to realise that they will get marmalised if the have an election now, so getting prissy about their fiscal rules would be a mistake.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    Labour took a growing economy and trashed it. We're heading for a recession and it's all down to them. Idiots.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, commentators close to Trump think that we’re still at the beginning of the appointments:



    https://x.com/jackposobiec/status/1857300981362438566

    That should read anyone with a functioning brain !

    This owning the Libs attitude is pathetic .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option.

    The counterfactual to that is Brexit.

    There was no problem with being a member of the EU that Brexit actually solved.

    The populist right made a lot of noise, got their way, and it's shit.

    Murica is about to enter the Find Out phase of the same process...
    Jesus Fucking Christ STFU about Brexit
    Radical free speech Leon speaks.
    I don't think Leon is saying that it should be illegal for Scott to talk about Brexit. Just that he might prefer it if he chose not to.
    This is what people misunderstand about free speech. I'd prefer (perhaps quite strongly) you not to say that <> it ought to be illegal to say that. See also Celtic fans on Rememberance Day, or indeed much of what football fans say.
    Leon is free to argue with Scott or ignore him.
    I'm not misunderstanding anything - just pointing out what a risible comment it was.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,232
    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option. The 'liberal establishment' has made mistake after mistake. It goes in to military conflicts with no strategic plan. It supports unlimited illegal immigration 'we can do this!' and then cannot integrate the immigrants in question.

    “Everything has failed for the last 20 years, and no one has any plan, other than to just keep things running, keep the plates spinning, kick the can down the road. Every time you listen to a member of the liberal elite, they set out an excellent analysis of the problems, but then come to a conclusion like 'we have to face up to difficult questions' , or 'we all have to try harder'.

    “In 2020 the liberal elite went completely insane and lost all its credibility, like when it supported superspreader events (mass protests) in the covid pandemic on the grounds that they have 'public health benefits', also supporting riots on grounds of stopping racism, etc. Against the backdrop of all this Trump appears sane and coherant.

    “In the end it doesn't really matter. We don't know what the counterfactual scenario is (where Harris won) but the likelihood is that it would have been a disaster which has now been avoided, although Trump could well turn out to be a disaster too.”

    👏👏👏👏

    Given you reposted darkage, I'll repost my reply. It's such an obvious logical fallacy that I can only conclude you, darkage and others are deluding yourselves or trolling.

    "As usual I agree with a lot of what you say. But there is an obvious logical fallacy of stating (correctly) how bad the liberal establishment has been and would be, and concluding that Trump by default is an answer. It is quite possible (in fact I'd say its pretty much certain) that we aren't being offered any viable solutions at present.

    It's clear you're still stuck in the 'Trump might be the answer' bit of this so I wonder: what would he need to do (or not do) for you to change your view of him? Or are you just part of the cult?

    FWIW I'd mirror your comment about the liberal elite making an excellent analysis of the problems. In some ways I think the populist right does too, it's just that their solutions will make things worse not better. I don't really know what the solutions are, though I strongly suspect that the heart of it is reforming capitalism such that workers and consumers are less alienated from the products and services that sustain our economies."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078
    edited November 15
    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, commentators close to Trump think that we’re still at the beginning of the appointments:



    https://x.com/jackposobiec/status/1857300981362438566

    Poso is a lifelong troll, trolling again.
    But no doubt there will be more shit to be dumped on the Senate by Trump.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,092
    Elon Musk meets with Iran’s ambassador to the UN to defuse tensions between the US and Iran: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/11/14/elon-musk-reportedly-met-with-irans-un-ambassador/
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    nico679 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, commentators close to Trump think that we’re still at the beginning of the appointments:



    https://x.com/jackposobiec/status/1857300981362438566

    That should read anyone with a functioning brain !

    This owning the Libs attitude is pathetic .
    In the worst case, soon, there will be no Libs, no left and right, just democrats and others......

    If you still want to own the libs past that point, you will merely be identifying yourself as an other.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,092
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    Not if they lower food standards and then try to impose them on us ...
    Kennedy has campaigned on raising US food standards. There’s all sorts of crap in American food that is banned in Europe.
    Yes, you’ve said that. You keep studiously ignoring all the batshit crazy stuff he’s also said.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    Mr. Kamski, cheers for the info on the German election date. Any thoughts on how it might pan out? Will the trend of incumbents getting a kicking continue?

    Definitely, I'd say. Nailed on CDU/CSU biggest parliamentary group, and (already unpopular) CDU leader Merz as chancellor. There will probably be a choice of SPD or Greens as junior coalition partners.

    FDP and Left probably out of parliament, and BSW in.

    Getting the FDP out of government will at least allow government borrowing to increase.

    https://dawum.de/Bundestag/

    has current opinion poll averages, what that would mean in terms of seats, and theoretically possible coalitions - though note it includes anything mathematically possible whereas other parties have ruled out working with the AfD so you can forget those options.

    Of course it's possible there could be big changes before the election, though I don't really see it, the government is just too unpopular. Though the AfD and/or BSW could improve on their current polling. What happens in Ukraine between now and then is a potential unknown.

    The SPD seem to have decided to stick with the unpopular Scholz as chancellor candidate, which I'm interpreting as meaning that they've already decided that the election is lost and want Scholz to carry the can.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    Not if they lower food standards and then try to impose them on us ...
    Kennedy has campaigned on raising US food standards. There’s all sorts of crap in American food that is banned in Europe.
    Yes, you’ve said that. You keep studiously ignoring all the batshit crazy stuff he’s also said.
    Flashback to when RFK Jr.'s anti-vaccine activism led to a measles outbreak in Samoa that resulted in the death of 83 people, mostly children.
    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1857166708810666496
  • I was given to understand that the end of the Enlightenment would be a good thing:

    "How the Enlightenment created modern race thinking, and why we should confront it." - Slate, 5 June 2018

    Race as we understand it—a biological taxonomy that turns physical difference into relations of domination—is a product of the Enlightenment... it took the scientific thought of the Enlightenment to create an enduring racial taxonomy and the “color-coded, white-over-black” ideology with which we are familiar,

    "The Enlightenment’s ‘Race’ Problem, and Ours" - New York Times, 10 February 2013

    Scholars have been aware for a long time of the curious paradox of Enlightenment thought... Equality was only ever conceived as equality among people presumed in advance to be equal... It would take explicitly counter-Enlightenment thinkers in the 18th century, such as Johann Gottfried Herder, to formulate anti-racist views of human diversity.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,599
    edited November 15

    Elon Musk meets with Iran’s ambassador to the UN to defuse tensions between the US and Iran: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/11/14/elon-musk-reportedly-met-with-irans-un-ambassador/

    The problem with this is, in what capacity was he talking? Was he talking as a representative of the US government, in the interests of US citizens? Was he talking as the world's richest man, or in the interests of Tesla and SpaceX shareholders? Those interests might often be divergent.

    And as someone says on Twix: what about the Logan Act?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,642
    edited November 15

    Elon Musk meets with Iran’s ambassador to the UN to defuse tensions between the US and Iran: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/11/14/elon-musk-reportedly-met-with-irans-un-ambassador/

    The problem with this is, in what capacity was he talking? Was he talking as a representative of the US government, in the interests of US citizens? Was he talking as the world's richest man, or in the interests of Tesla and SpaceX shareholders? Those interests might often be divergent.

    And as someone says on Twix: what about the Logan Act?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
    Time for a prosecution under the Logan Act.

    Edit - oh you’ve edited your post, making my post redundant, you rotter.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Having now experienced Manila’s Aquino Internstional Airport three times I can confidently say I will never complain about Stansted again. I will even look more kindly on Gatwick

    😶
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904

    Elon Musk meets with Iran’s ambassador to the UN to defuse tensions between the US and Iran: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/11/14/elon-musk-reportedly-met-with-irans-un-ambassador/

    The problem with this is, in what capacity was he talking? Was he talking as a representative of the US government, in the interests of US citizens? Was he talking as the world's richest man, or in the interests of Tesla and SpaceX shareholders? Those interests might often be divergent.

    And as someone says on Twix: what about the Logan Act?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
    Since when has Musk been a representative of the US Government?
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,232

    Elon Musk meets with Iran’s ambassador to the UN to defuse tensions between the US and Iran: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/11/14/elon-musk-reportedly-met-with-irans-un-ambassador/

    The problem with this is, in what capacity was he talking? Was he talking as a representative of the US government, in the interests of US citizens? Was he talking as the world's richest man, or in the interests of Tesla and SpaceX shareholders? Those interests might often be divergent.
    Hardly a new problem, though cf Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney etc. etc.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,599
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    Not if they lower food standards and then try to impose them on us ...
    Kennedy has campaigned on raising US food standards. There’s all sorts of crap in American food that is banned in Europe.
    Yes, you’ve said that. You keep studiously ignoring all the batshit crazy stuff he’s also said.
    Flashback to when RFK Jr.'s anti-vaccine activism led to a measles outbreak in Samoa that resulted in the death of 83 people, mostly children.
    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1857166708810666496
    That doesn't matter in the eyes of some on here, for *REASONS*. It should be ignored. He has been anointed by Trump, and is therefore one of the Good Guys.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,991
    Leon said:

    Experiencing the commentary of Scott_xP since 2016 is like being constantly rapped on the head with a small hand-made wooden penguin, in the exact same spot, every hour on the hour, for eight years

    aw, bless...

    The wooden penguin is of course your conscience.

    You know that you voted for the greatest mistake in recent British history.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    edited November 15
    MaxPB said:

    Labour took a growing economy and trashed it. We're heading for a recession and it's all down to them. Idiots.

    Yes. This is a completely self made slowdown and quite likely recession

    Entirely avoidable and all down to Labour’s economic and political stupidity: in a very basic way
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,991
    @GeorgeWParker

    The last time I looked, OBR estimates suggested Brexit would ultimately cost the Treasury about £40bn a year in lost tax - coincidentally the size of the ⁦
    @RachelReevesMP⁩ Budget tax rise

    https://x.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1857345478960021865
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,599
    ClippP said:

    Elon Musk meets with Iran’s ambassador to the UN to defuse tensions between the US and Iran: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/11/14/elon-musk-reportedly-met-with-irans-un-ambassador/

    The problem with this is, in what capacity was he talking? Was he talking as a representative of the US government, in the interests of US citizens? Was he talking as the world's richest man, or in the interests of Tesla and SpaceX shareholders? Those interests might often be divergent.

    And as someone says on Twix: what about the Logan Act?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
    Since when has Musk been a representative of the US Government?
    Since he made himself one.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Experiencing the commentary of Scott_xP since 2016 is like being constantly rapped on the head with a small hand-made wooden penguin, in the exact same spot, every hour on the hour, for eight years

    aw, bless...

    The wooden penguin is of course your conscience.

    You know that you voted for the greatest mistake in recent British history.
    Are you kidding? I voted for KEIR STARMER

    It doesn’t get stupider than that
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078

    Elon Musk meets with Iran’s ambassador to the UN to defuse tensions between the US and Iran: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/11/14/elon-musk-reportedly-met-with-irans-un-ambassador/

    The problem with this is, in what capacity was he talking? Was he talking as a representative of the US government, in the interests of US citizens? Was he talking as the world's richest man, or in the interests of Tesla and SpaceX shareholders? Those interests might often be divergent.

    And as someone says on Twix: what about the Logan Act?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
    The Logan Act has proved utterly toothless on many occasions.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,599
    I am henceforth going to call this not the Trump Administration, but the Mos Eisley Administration. Because all the senior figures would be found in the Cantina.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited November 15
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option.

    The counterfactual to that is Brexit.

    There was no problem with being a member of the EU that Brexit actually solved.

    The populist right made a lot of noise, got their way, and it's shit.

    Murica is about to enter the Find Out phase of the same process...
    Jesus Fucking Christ STFU about Brexit
    Alternatively STFU about AI, noom (whatever the f*** that is) lab leaks, shagging a celebrity in a French churchyard and your holidays/ breakfast/lunch/dinner/ newly minted cocktail.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    The Daily Lunacy(ies)

    BBC to launch reality show to find new 15 mins of fame desperados

    Sadiq Khan wants to introduce hotel tourist tax

    Haringey to charge larger cars more to park.

    Any more for any more?

  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    RobD said:

    kamski said:

    RobD said:

    kamski said:

    So the German election is now going to be the 23rd February - just 4 days before Weiberfastnacht and carnival. WTF. For much of the Rhineland this is like having an election the weekend before christmas - worse in that carnival is a way bigger deal than christmas in many places.

    Not going down well round here.

    Given Scholz has lost confidence, why is the election not still for three and a half months?
    There has been no confidence vote. It's not until December 16th.
    Huh? How is that possible if the coalition collapsed? You'd think the opposition would be chomping at the bit to table such a vote.
    Is there a hope that the current government can pull it back from the brink? Basically giving the FDP enough time to realise that they will get marmalised if the have an election now, so getting prissy about their fiscal rules would be a mistake.
    The FDP are anyway buggered. They are probably calculating that their only hope is to campaign as part of the opposition. FWIW I don't think people will fall for it, but I tend to forget how very little attention a lot of voters pay to politics between elections.

    @RobD The opposition may be chomping at the bit, but AIUI they can only call a constructive confidence vote ie propose an alternative chancellor that the majority vote for, and they don't have the votes (as they don't want to rely on AfD votes for this).

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,400

    I am henceforth going to call this not the Trump Administration, but the Mos Eisley Administration. Because all the senior figures would be found in the Cantina.

    You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,092
    edited November 15
    Deleted
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 511
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    Not if they lower food standards and then try to impose them on us ...
    Kennedy has campaigned on raising US food standards. There’s all sorts of crap in American food that is banned in Europe.
    Yes, you’ve said that. You keep studiously ignoring all the batshit crazy stuff he’s also said.
    Flashback to when RFK Jr.'s anti-vaccine activism led to a measles outbreak in Samoa that resulted in the death of 83 people, mostly children.
    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1857166708810666496
    I wasn't aware of that, so there we have solid factual evidence of why RFK Jr as Health Secretary is a serious threat to global health.
    Anyone got any solid factual evidence where he's prevented deaths?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,065
    edited November 15
    Good morning

    Reading the thread this morning it is clear just how acrimonious Trump's win has become and it looks like this will be the future for years to come

    I have no idea how Trump will run the US, but it seems his appointments are highly controversial, even bizarre, but how anyone opposed to Trump can influence him seems impossible and the world will just have to hope it is not a catastrophic disaster

    Maybe the world order is about to be tested to its limits, but change is coming with unknown consequences

  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    Not if they lower food standards and then try to impose them on us ...
    Kennedy has campaigned on raising US food standards. There’s all sorts of crap in American food that is banned in Europe.
    Does anyone think a Trump administration is going to impose tougher food regulations?

    OK if he can make a scam out of it I guess it's possible.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078
    If Elon wants to buy his own country, this would be a cheaper option.

    I went to Greenland to try to buy it

    Here’s what happened:

    https://x.com/drydenwtbrown/status/1856424282823541099
  • Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    The good news is that since it takes 6 weeks to cross the Atlantic by sailing ship, there is little chance of infectious diseases spreading from America as a result of a lack of vaccination or quarantines.

    If some of that SciFi nonsense about powered flight came true, things would be different. Why, in such a world, flu variants might be spread by aeronauts!!!
    Spanish flu started in America and was spread on the packed troopships across the Atlantic, which shows why we must stop burning coal for energy.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904

    ClippP said:

    Elon Musk meets with Iran’s ambassador to the UN to defuse tensions between the US and Iran: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/11/14/elon-musk-reportedly-met-with-irans-un-ambassador/

    The problem with this is, in what capacity was he talking? Was he talking as a representative of the US government, in the interests of US citizens? Was he talking as the world's richest man, or in the interests of Tesla and SpaceX shareholders? Those interests might often be divergent.

    And as someone says on Twix: what about the Logan Act?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
    Since when has Musk been a representative of the US Government?
    Since he made himself one.
    This one or the incoming one???
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078

    I was given to understand that the end of the Enlightenment would be a good thing:

    "How the Enlightenment created modern race thinking, and why we should confront it." - Slate, 5 June 2018

    Race as we understand it—a biological taxonomy that turns physical difference into relations of domination—is a product of the Enlightenment... it took the scientific thought of the Enlightenment to create an enduring racial taxonomy and the “color-coded, white-over-black” ideology with which we are familiar,

    "The Enlightenment’s ‘Race’ Problem, and Ours" - New York Times, 10 February 2013

    Scholars have been aware for a long time of the curious paradox of Enlightenment thought... Equality was only ever conceived as equality among people presumed in advance to be equal... It would take explicitly counter-Enlightenment thinkers in the 18th century, such as Johann Gottfried Herder, to formulate anti-racist views of human diversity.

    You're familiar with the Pandora myth ?
  • Sandpit said:

    Thankfully childhood vaccines are for the States to administer, rather than the Federal government.

    Kennedy’s other ideas, from implementing European food standards in the US to getting the big money out of the healthcare industry, are things that are much less controversial to the American people.

    Here’s Trump’s and RFK’s statements following his nomination: no mention of vaccines.

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1857170020427595797
    I am thrilled to announce Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as The United States Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). For too long, Americans have been crushed by the industrial food complex and drug companies who have engaged in deception, misinformation, and disinformation when it comes to Public Health. The Safety and Health of all Americans is the most important role of any Administration, and HHS will play a big role in helping ensure that everybody will be protected from harmful chemicals, pollutants, pesticides, pharmaceutical products, and food additives that have contributed to the overwhelming Health Crisis in this Country. Mr. Kennedy will restore these Agencies to the traditions of Gold Standard Scientific Research, and beacons of Transparency, to end the Chronic Disease epidemic, and to Make America Great and Healthy Again!

    https://x.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1857198805919138235
    Thank you @realDonaldTrump for your leadership and courage. I'm committed to advancing your vision to Make America Healthy Again.

    We have a generational opportunity to bring together the greatest minds in science, medicine, industry, and government to put an end to the chronic disease epidemic.

    I look forward to working with the more than 80,000 employees at HHS to free the agencies from the smothering cloud of corporate capture so they can pursue their mission to make Americans once again the healthiest people on Earth.

    Together we will clean up corruption, stop the revolving door between industry and government, and return our health agencies to their rich tradition of gold-standard, evidence-based science. I will provide Americans with transparency and access to all the data so they can make informed choices for themselves and their families.

    My commitment to the American people is to be an honest public servant. Let’s go!

    So he's going after the likes of Nestlé, Tyson, Mondolez, Coke and Pepsi?
    The average American will starve.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,972
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    This is such a superb analysis of Why Trump, FPT, by @darkage, I an simply going to repost it


    “The populist right is the answer to the problems we face by a process of elimination - there is no other answer and no other viable option.

    The counterfactual to that is Brexit.

    There was no problem with being a member of the EU that Brexit actually solved.

    The populist right made a lot of noise, got their way, and it's shit.

    Murica is about to enter the Find Out phase of the same process...
    Jesus Fucking Christ STFU about Brexit
    Radical free speech Leon speaks.
    I don't think Leon is saying that it should be illegal for Scott to talk about Brexit. Just that he might prefer it if he chose not to.
    This is what people misunderstand about free speech. I'd prefer (perhaps quite strongly) you not to say that <> it ought to be illegal to say that. See also Celtic fans on Rememberance Day, or indeed much of what football fans say.
    Leon is free to argue with Scott or ignore him.
    I'm not misunderstanding anything - just pointing out what a risible comment it was.
    The old ‘would you say it to their face’ test isn’t a bad one when it comes to online etiquette.
    Roaring ‘Jesus Fucking Christ STFU’ at someone in the pub, however boring and repetitive they are, probably not recommended.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,078
    edited November 15
    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    Not if they lower food standards and then try to impose them on us ...
    Kennedy has campaigned on raising US food standards. There’s all sorts of crap in American food that is banned in Europe.
    Does anyone think a Trump administration is going to impose tougher food regulations?

    OK if he can make a scam out of it I guess it's possible.
    Already been tested during his first administration, when he introduced a large element of self regulation for the food industry.

    One of the things implicated in the recent deli deaths scandal.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-09-30/boar-s-head-listeria-outbreak-in-deli-meat-shows-price-of-deregulation
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,271
    a

    Foxy said:

    First

    RFK in charge of Health? This really is popcorn time. At least this time a danger only to Americans.

    The good news is that since it takes 6 weeks to cross the Atlantic by sailing ship, there is little chance of infectious diseases spreading from America as a result of a lack of vaccination or quarantines.

    If some of that SciFi nonsense about powered flight came true, things would be different. Why, in such a world, flu variants might be spread by aeronauts!!!
    Spanish flu started in America and was spread on the packed troopships across the Atlantic, which shows why we must stop burning coal for energy.
    Those new fangled steamships with their hi tech triple expansion engines, are unnatural.

    And will be the death of us.
  • It is bizarre that Trump's Cabinet choices are so bizarre. You'd think he would look for quietly-competent careerists to implement his programme, advance his reputation and not compete for headlines.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,972
    viewcode said:

    Elon Musk meets with Iran’s ambassador to the UN to defuse tensions between the US and Iran: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/11/14/elon-musk-reportedly-met-with-irans-un-ambassador/

    Supervillain. I keep saying this. Actual, full-on, supervillain. He's got his own satellite network, rocket fleet, android soldiers, armoured personnel carriers, flame throwers, tunnel diggers, and now he's buying governments. If this was a comic he'd be Dr Impossible or something. He's one black glove and white cat away from monologuing.
    Only got the two nipples afaics.

    https://x.com/rmac18/status/1549119481930100736?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
This discussion has been closed.