Voting has now closed and can Bobby J sink any lower? – politicalbetting.com
Voting closed at 5pm in the race to succeed Rishi Sunak and Robert Jenrick’s chances are near rock bottom (but he has been lower before) but I do think he remains a smidgen of value given the last YouGov poll had him losing to Badenoch by a mere 4%.
A group representing 1,400 private schools will press ahead with plans for a legal challenge against the government’s introduction of VAT from January, the BBC can reveal.
In a board meeting on Thursday, the Independent Schools Council (ISC), the body which includes most independent schools in the UK, voted to pave the way for legal action.
Lord David Pannick KC, one of the country’s leading barristers in cases relating to government decisions, is to lead the challenge which will be brought on behalf of parents, including those with children with special educational needs and disabilities (Send).
She's a strong candidate, I think. It's a pity she had to start from behind the eight ball.
Don't understand that, she got 2% in the 2020 primary and has achieved absolutely nothing as VP. Her position and voting etc record makes Bernie Sanders look like Farage. She has 'not Trump' going for her. And that's about it.
Yes, it’s an unpopular view but she’s absolutely the worst presidential candidate of all time. She has nothing in her favour except ‘not Trump’.
I don't think the polling backs that up: she's significantly better rated by pollsters than Hillary Clinton, and Democrats are significantly more enthused about voting for her than they were for Clinton.
She's a strong candidate, I think. It's a pity she had to start from behind the eight ball.
Don't understand that, she got 2% in the 2020 primary and has achieved absolutely nothing as VP. Her position and voting etc record makes Bernie Sanders look like Farage. She has 'not Trump' going for her. And that's about it.
Yes, it’s an unpopular view but she’s absolutely the worst presidential candidate of all time. She has nothing in her favour except ‘not Trump’.
Worst of all time even as hyperbole is pretty ridiculous. I really don't get it at all.
Is she amazing? Probably not, though just referring to past primaries doesn't mean anything, Biden went through two and still ended up winning a third and the presidency. Record as VP? Not much to go on.
The campaign itself? Hard to judge these things until we see the outcomes. She's not done much open questioning, but had plenty of the big crowd events Americans love. She's reached out to disaffected Republicans and taken a tougher stance on the border etc to serk to address concerns. And the end result is it's sadly still 50/50, but hardly disastrous then.
So is it enough? Probably not, and that will be it's own statement. But has she been horrendous? No.
She's a strong candidate, I think. It's a pity she had to start from behind the eight ball.
Don't understand that, she got 2% in the 2020 primary and has achieved absolutely nothing as VP. Her position and voting etc record makes Bernie Sanders look like Farage. She has 'not Trump' going for her. And that's about it.
As a matter of interest, what was the last VP you would say achieved something? It's the sort of role where it's hard to be seen to 'achieve' anything. Yet a fair few VPs end up becoming president (assassinations excepted).
Agreed, I always thought the VPs job was a "spare". I didn't think they actually did or were responsible for anything.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
Imo We need to decide the core priorities of the state, and focus on doing those and providing for those better. Probably moving to an insurance based NHS model along the lines of the continent
A group representing 1,400 private schools will press ahead with plans for a legal challenge against the government’s introduction of VAT from January, the BBC can reveal.
In a board meeting on Thursday, the Independent Schools Council (ISC), the body which includes most independent schools in the UK, voted to pave the way for legal action.
Lord David Pannick KC, one of the country’s leading barristers in cases relating to government decisions, is to lead the challenge which will be brought on behalf of parents, including those with children with special educational needs and disabilities (Send).
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
Arguably we have that now, with managerialist technocrats Starmer and Reeves running the ship, and they've certainly been laying on the gloomstering and doomstering.
The idea politicians can't be honest comes from 2017 but imo blaming the social care manifesto completely misreads that election. Lynton Crosby ran a dire campaign apparently designed for Boris, but most important were the two terrorist outrages against a backdrop of massive police cuts. Law and order scuppered the law and order party.
FPT - Rachel Reeves has something personal against private schools.
She's on the record as favouring the abolition of all private schools and all grammar schools. And she's tone-deaf to why either are beneficial. She's had multiple appeals over recent months about the impact rushing a major tax change in the middle of an academic year will have on pupils and staff, who still don't know what the legislation will say and have barely a few weeks to plan for it, and she's ignored them all. Education is a public good, that's why it's never been taxed, and she's now about to do so because she has an axe to grind.
All because a couple of pompous public school boys ribbed her over her background when she was playing chess 30 years ago and she's had a chip on her shoulder ever since.
It tells you a lot about someone who's that determined and bloody-minded about revenge: none of it good.
She's a strong candidate, I think. It's a pity she had to start from behind the eight ball.
Don't understand that, she got 2% in the 2020 primary and has achieved absolutely nothing as VP. Her position and voting etc record makes Bernie Sanders look like Farage. She has 'not Trump' going for her. And that's about it.
Yes, it’s an unpopular view but she’s absolutely the worst presidential candidate of all time. She has nothing in her favour except ‘not Trump’.
I don't think the polling backs that up: she's significantly better rated by pollsters than Hillary Clinton, and Democrats are significantly more enthused about voting for her than they were for Clinton.
Yes, I agree: Hillary Clinton was a worse candidate.
Q: we remember the political bets when the favourite lost, and often state that if a 12% chance comes good that the markets were wrong.
But in general on the major political markets does the 70% chance comes through 70% of the time, the 20% chance 20% of the time etc.?
I know the answer to this one! The process you describe is called "calibration" and is the way that bookmakers and data scientists assess their probabilistic predictions against the outcomes (I disagree, and so does Gardner and Tetlock who prefer the Brier score). The British GE market is reasonably well calibrated for the Labour and Conservative parties, but is not well calibrated for the Liberals, whose odds on winning/most seats are skewed.
This anecdote would be really good if I knew how well the POTUS market was calibrated, now wouldn't it...
I hold no special animus towards Jenrick nor positivity towards Badenoch, but she comes across as having more personality, which can work for and against a candidate, and that might be what people are looking for, and willing to throw the dice.
FPT - Rachel Reeves has something personal against private schools.
She's on the record as favouring the abolition of all private schools and all grammar schools. And she's tone-deaf to why either are beneficial. She's had multiple appeals over recent months about the impact rushing a major tax change in the middle of an academic year will have on pupils and staff, who still don't know what the legislation will say and have barely a few weeks to plan for it, and she's ignored them all. Education is a public good, that's why it's never been taxed, and she's now about to do so because she has an axe to grind.
All because a couple of pompous public school boys ribbed her over her background when she was playing chess 30 years ago and she's had a chip on her shoulder ever since.
It tells you a lot about someone who's that determined and bloody-minded about revenge: none of it good.
TBF, Kemi has a much bigger chip on her shoulder about her treatment when young. And there was clearly something with Liz Truss.
And you with woke and this has a pretty personal element, though you're not a leading politician.
I've not seen Reeves reference this stuff, do you have sources?
I have sympathy with both Kemi's sorry and encountering public school oiks (who have also played a major role in the failure of the nation in the last 15 years), but public policy against such perceived issues should be on some kind of more objective footing.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
The NHS money pit continues. Despite the money chucked at the things it’s worse than ever.
Any chance someone will stop doing the same old thing again and again, and perhaps consider what actually works elsewhere?
£200bn a year budget. TWO HUNDRED BILLION A YEAR.
And, for what??
Do you think about your comments or just reflexively beat your keyboard at every triggering event?
As a country we spent less than comparable nations. So yes £200 billion.
'This analysis examines how health care spending in the UK compares with EU countries in the decade preceding the pandemic. Taking a longer term view enables us to see how trends in spending may have impacted health care resilience today.
Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.
If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).
Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.
Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).'
Do we have any inklings, soundings or just gossip on who will be victorious? The obvious winner Kemi Badenoch or the grovelling cur Jenrick? Being even handed, of course
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
Arguably we have that now, with managerialist technocrats Starmer and Reeves running the ship, and they've certainly been laying on the gloomstering and doomstering.
The idea politicians can't be honest comes from 2017 but imo blaming the social care manifesto completely misreads that election. Lynton Crosby ran a dire campaign apparently designed for Boris, but most important were the two terrorist outrages against a backdrop of massive police cuts. Law and order scuppered the law and order party.
I don't think any party can be honest with what needs to be done and still get elected frankly
the corollary to that is therefore democracy can no longer work as we can't fix the country while using it. I have an absolute preference for democracy however if it can't fix our current situation maybe for a time we need to fall back on something else. Just like in ww2, I don't think anyone wanted rationing but we needed to do it.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
I don't think to say we are a "mess" that can be "fixed" by politicians is the right framing. But we do have problems and I agree that our politics penalises being honest about what is and isn't realistic for governments to do. This is mainly the fault of the electorate.
Eg this idea that the government (Tory or Labour) can enact policies to transform our growth prospects relative to our peers. That's delusional. I'd like politicians to stop promising it. Banning them from even talking about growth would be ideal tbh.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
It seems unlikely. So far as I can see all of the parties are simply on the wrong track - Reform/Tories are off in some odd authoritarian type tailspin, and the rest are simply spend, spend, spend.
Actual policies that might go some way to fixing things seem to me to be only likely if from nowhere a bit of a different political movement emerges. Somewhere in the Traditional Liberal/Traditional Tory space would do very nicely. I can't really think of a single politician though that is somehow going to leap to the challenge.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
I don't think to say we are a "mess" that can be "fixed" by politicians is the right framing. But we do have problems and I agree that our politics penalises being honest about what is and isn't realistic for governments to do.
Eg this idea they can enact policies to transform our growth prospects relative to our peers. That's delusional. I'd like politicians to stop promising it. Banned from even talking about growth would be ideal tbh.
Which bit are you disagreeing with?
a) The country is in a mess b) The country can't be fixed by parties that get elected for a five year term
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
I honestly don't think we're in much more of a 'mess' than we have in other periods of our history. It's just that our bubbles are much wider, and we get to hear about issues that are not particularly issues for us directly. Life was really shite fifty or a hundred years ago; it was just that many of us expected it to be shite.
When she was younger, a female relative had a close shave with an attacker on the street. She did not report it to the police, and told only her fellow nurses. Nowadays, it might be local or national headlines.
Expectations of behaviour are higher, and the limits of tolerable behaviour much narrower. and stepping outside both of those can become much more widely known than was possible decades ago.
I'd argue that rather than making the country a 'mess', it makes us stronger.
Not sure what is funnier, that the boost to GDP from the budget finally reaches the touted 1.4% figure in....2073/74...or that the OBR forecast is believed to be remotely accurate up to that date.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
I honestly don't think we're in much more of a 'mess' than we have in other periods of our history. It's just that our bubbles are much wider, and we get to hear about issues that are not particularly issues for us directly. Life was really shite fifty or a hundred years ago; it was just that many of us expected it to be shite.
When she was younger, a female relative had a close shave with an attacker on the street. She did not report it to the police, and told only her fellow nurses. Nowadays, it might be local or national headlines.
Expectations of behaviour are higher, and the limits of tolerable behaviour much narrower. and stepping outside both of those can become much more widely known than was possible decades ago.
I'd argue that rather than making the country a 'mess', it makes us stronger.
Back then yes that behaviour was treated less seriously and frankly still is. However back then at least police for burglary for instance was a crime worth investigating.
However I wasn't just talking about daily services I was referring to the ever expanding bill we are paying for less and less, lots of causes none of which can be addressed by a party that actually wants to be elected
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
I don't think to say we are a "mess" that can be "fixed" by politicians is the right framing. But we do have problems and I agree that our politics penalises being honest about what is and isn't realistic for governments to do.
Eg this idea they can enact policies to transform our growth prospects relative to our peers. That's delusional. I'd like politicians to stop promising it. Banned from even talking about growth would be ideal tbh.
Which bit are you disagreeing with?
a) The country is in a mess b) The country can't be fixed by parties that get elected for a five year term
I believe both a and b to be true
Vote Malmesbury. I will protect you from Democracy.
A rollercoaster week so far for Trump and Harris .
It started off badly for Trump with the hate rally and joke gate , Biden then rode in to help him with his garbage gaffe and now the Trump campaign is trying to distance itself from the House Speaker Mike Johnson’s comments on Obamacare .
Trump then decides to crash and burn even more with women by telling them he’ll protect them whether they like it or not .
So I think of the card carrying pb blue lovelies, @Casino_Royale@TSE@MaxPB and yours truly have voted for Kemi while @HYUFD and @Mortimer backed Jenrick. And @MarqueeMark 'abstained'. Have I missed anyone?
The result will be announced at 11.00 am on Saturday.
I spoke with @SaraSidnerCNN this morning about why I think Trump currently has a slight advantage in momentum, but also how the election could go either way next Tuesday.
Not a bold stance, I know – but it is the reality.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
The NHS money pit continues. Despite the money chucked at the things it’s worse than ever.
Any chance someone will stop doing the same old thing again and again, and perhaps consider what actually works elsewhere?
£200bn a year budget. TWO HUNDRED BILLION A YEAR.
And, for what??
Do you think about your comments or just reflexively beat your keyboard at every triggering event?
As a country we spent less than comparable nations. So yes £200 billion.
'This analysis examines how health care spending in the UK compares with EU countries in the decade preceding the pandemic. Taking a longer term view enables us to see how trends in spending may have impacted health care resilience today.
Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.
If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).
Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.
Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).'
So I think of the card carrying pb blue lovelies, @Casino_Royale@TSE@MaxPB and yours truly have voted for Kemi while @HYUFD and @Mortimer backed Jenrick. And @MarqueeMark 'abstained'. Have I missed anyone?
Q: we remember the political bets when the favourite lost, and often state that if a 12% chance comes good that the markets were wrong.
But in general on the major political markets does the 70% chance comes through 70% of the time, the 20% chance 20% of the time etc.?
Markets like football pretty much do. But political markets? No. They panic and fly around the place like headless chickens. This market is an example of that. It's been all over the place. And now the publicly available evidence, anyway, suggests Jenrick is value and I think most of us here who actually bet agree with this (exception of @viewcode ). I see no reason to think he should be longer priced than 3/1 and I'd price him more like 2/1 myself.
Unfortunately with rare exceptions like the presidential markets they're just not big enough that (imo) you could do this for a living, or certainly not my trading style. But it's nice to have a hobby that makes money.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
The NHS money pit continues. Despite the money chucked at the things it’s worse than ever.
Any chance someone will stop doing the same old thing again and again, and perhaps consider what actually works elsewhere?
£200bn a year budget. TWO HUNDRED BILLION A YEAR.
And, for what??
Do you think about your comments or just reflexively beat your keyboard at every triggering event?
As a country we spent less than comparable nations. So yes £200 billion.
'This analysis examines how health care spending in the UK compares with EU countries in the decade preceding the pandemic. Taking a longer term view enables us to see how trends in spending may have impacted health care resilience today.
Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.
If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).
Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.
Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).'
So I think of the card carrying pb blue lovelies, @Casino_Royale@TSE@MaxPB and yours truly have voted for Kemi while @HYUFD and @Mortimer backed Jenrick. And @MarqueeMark 'abstained'. Have I missed anyone?
The result will be announced at 11.00 am on Saturday.
I would have been for Kemi but not a member this time
So I think of the card carrying pb blue lovelies, @Casino_Royale@TSE@MaxPB and yours truly have voted for Kemi while @HYUFD and @Mortimer backed Jenrick. And @MarqueeMark 'abstained'. Have I missed anyone?
The result will be announced at 11.00 am on Saturday.
I wouldn't call myself a blue lovely as I'm neither blue nor lovely, but I am a member of the party and I voted for Kemi.
So I think of the card carrying pb blue lovelies, @Casino_Royale@TSE@MaxPB and yours truly have voted for Kemi while @HYUFD and @Mortimer backed Jenrick. And @MarqueeMark 'abstained'. Have I missed anyone?
The result will be announced at 11.00 am on Saturday.
I would have been for Kemi but not a member this time
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
I don't think to say we are a "mess" that can be "fixed" by politicians is the right framing. But we do have problems and I agree that our politics penalises being honest about what is and isn't realistic for governments to do.
Eg this idea they can enact policies to transform our growth prospects relative to our peers. That's delusional. I'd like politicians to stop promising it. Banned from even talking about growth would be ideal tbh.
Which bit are you disagreeing with?
a) The country is in a mess b) The country can't be fixed by parties that get elected for a five year term
I believe both a and b to be true
I'm saying it can't be fixed period. It's not that kind of thing. But, yes, our politics could be more honest and if it were that would help. But there's that electorate in the way. They don't reward honesty.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
I don't think to say we are a "mess" that can be "fixed" by politicians is the right framing. But we do have problems and I agree that our politics penalises being honest about what is and isn't realistic for governments to do.
Eg this idea they can enact policies to transform our growth prospects relative to our peers. That's delusional. I'd like politicians to stop promising it. Banned from even talking about growth would be ideal tbh.
Which bit are you disagreeing with?
a) The country is in a mess b) The country can't be fixed by parties that get elected for a five year term
I believe both a and b to be true
Trouble is, most of the alternatives to democracy that humanity has tried end up worse.
A possible suggestion. Mutually agreed governments of occupation. So (say) we elect the German government, they elect the French, the French elect ours. Stops voters voting themselves pay rises but gives a guardrail against dictators going sour.
I don`t know why Jenrick is such long odds unless the bookies have inside knowledge.
They've met him?
He was on the telly at lunchtime and I had to turn it off. The guy is simply odious. The sort of bloke you'd avoid in an otherwise empty pub.
The fake accent is one of the more annoying aspects.
Kemi is crap and cowardly and weird but far less annoying than JENRICK. Given we'd have to put up with him on the telly for the next five two years, all those PB Tories who have cast their votes for Kemi are doing a public service.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
The NHS money pit continues. Despite the money chucked at the things it’s worse than ever.
Any chance someone will stop doing the same old thing again and again, and perhaps consider what actually works elsewhere?
£200bn a year budget. TWO HUNDRED BILLION A YEAR.
And, for what??
Do you think about your comments or just reflexively beat your keyboard at every triggering event?
As a country we spent less than comparable nations. So yes £200 billion.
'This analysis examines how health care spending in the UK compares with EU countries in the decade preceding the pandemic. Taking a longer term view enables us to see how trends in spending may have impacted health care resilience today.
Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.
If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).
Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.
Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).'
I'm not getting that from the quotes. There's total spending and capital investment is a subset of that.
I thought the "too many people, not enough machines" issue was broadly accepted.
More an imbalance of the staff ratios (see the classic plate washer to plate dryer ratio), stupid management practices from the 19th Cent. (I've actually seen a bloke with clipboard doing time-and-motion on the doctors in A&E!!!!), and an absence of clear lines of responsibility for patients.
So you have lots of people milling around, trying to do.... stuff.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
I don't think to say we are a "mess" that can be "fixed" by politicians is the right framing. But we do have problems and I agree that our politics penalises being honest about what is and isn't realistic for governments to do.
Eg this idea they can enact policies to transform our growth prospects relative to our peers. That's delusional. I'd like politicians to stop promising it. Banned from even talking about growth would be ideal tbh.
Which bit are you disagreeing with?
a) The country is in a mess b) The country can't be fixed by parties that get elected for a five year term
I believe both a and b to be true
I'm saying it can't be fixed period. It's not that kind of thing. But, yes, our politics could be more honest and if it were that would help. But there's that electorate in the way. They don't reward honesty.
So you are saying the same...it can't be fixed by our current democratic set up....why are you disagreeing then?
So I think of the card carrying pb blue lovelies, @Casino_Royale@TSE@MaxPB and yours truly have voted for Kemi while @HYUFD and @Mortimer backed Jenrick. And @MarqueeMark 'abstained'. Have I missed anyone?
The result will be announced at 11.00 am on Saturday.
I would have been for Kemi but not a member this time
Ditto. I was last a member in 2020, after having voted for Hunt, and campaigned against Corbyn.
Q: we remember the political bets when the favourite lost, and often state that if a 12% chance comes good that the markets were wrong.
But in general on the major political markets does the 70% chance comes through 70% of the time, the 20% chance 20% of the time etc.?
Markets like football pretty much do. But political markets? No. They panic and fly around the place like headless chickens. This market is an example of that. It's been all over the place. And now the publicly available evidence, anyway, suggests Jenrick is value and I think most of us here who actually bet agree with this (exception of @viewcode ). I see no reason to think he should be longer priced than 3/1 and I'd price him more like 2/1 myself.
Unfortunately with rare exceptions like the presidential markets they're just not big enough that (imo) you could do this for a living, or certainly not my trading style. But it's nice to have a hobby that makes money.
Famously I try not to bet on value per se: I try to pick bets which I think will win and give a good return (hence my focus on Nevada). So though I acknowledge that Jenrick may be mispriced, I think that he will lose and will not bet on him except as a hedge. I am not anticipating doing that if that helps.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
We are part of the problem, we punish honesty and difficult decisions.
You need very strong leaders to overcome that and bring the public with them. Our leaders are weak, often running scared even with big majorities.
A major problem is that parties have to rule out rises on all the major taxes before elections, so afterwards they have to concentrate on more innovative methods of raising money or cut services too deeply. It would probably have been better to raise the money via income tax or VAT but that's politically impossible - made so by political parties themselves and their perceived (and probably correct) estimate of how we the public would react.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
I don't think to say we are a "mess" that can be "fixed" by politicians is the right framing. But we do have problems and I agree that our politics penalises being honest about what is and isn't realistic for governments to do.
Eg this idea they can enact policies to transform our growth prospects relative to our peers. That's delusional. I'd like politicians to stop promising it. Banned from even talking about growth would be ideal tbh.
Which bit are you disagreeing with?
a) The country is in a mess b) The country can't be fixed by parties that get elected for a five year term
I believe both a and b to be true
Trouble is, most of the alternatives to democracy that humanity has tried end up worse.
A possible suggestion. Mutually agreed governments of occupation. So (say) we elect the German government, they elect the French, the French elect ours. Stops voters voting themselves pay rises but gives a guardrail against dictators going sour.
So I think of the card carrying pb blue lovelies, @Casino_Royale@TSE@MaxPB and yours truly have voted for Kemi while @HYUFD and @Mortimer backed Jenrick. And @MarqueeMark 'abstained'. Have I missed anyone?
The result will be announced at 11.00 am on Saturday.
Anyone who feels sorry for Jeremy Clarkson and his Brexiteer farmers hoot your horns.......
I suspect there are going to substantial demonstrations outside number 10 by the farming community and those new labour mps in rural constituencies are unlikely to win at the next GE
So I think of the card carrying pb blue lovelies, @Casino_Royale@TSE@MaxPB and yours truly have voted for Kemi while @HYUFD and @Mortimer backed Jenrick. And @MarqueeMark 'abstained'. Have I missed anyone?
The result will be announced at 11.00 am on Saturday.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
The NHS money pit continues. Despite the money chucked at the things it’s worse than ever.
Any chance someone will stop doing the same old thing again and again, and perhaps consider what actually works elsewhere?
£200bn a year budget. TWO HUNDRED BILLION A YEAR.
And, for what??
Do you think about your comments or just reflexively beat your keyboard at every triggering event?
As a country we spent less than comparable nations. So yes £200 billion.
'This analysis examines how health care spending in the UK compares with EU countries in the decade preceding the pandemic. Taking a longer term view enables us to see how trends in spending may have impacted health care resilience today.
Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.
If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).
Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.
Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).'
Where are you reading this? They seem pretty clear about day-to-day and long term investment. See the conclusion:
'This analysis shows that over the past decade the UK has spent less on both day-to-day care and investment spending on health care compared with the average EU14 countries. This is mirrored by less capacity, fewer physical resources and therefore greater vulnerability to sudden surges in demand. This meant the UK had to increase spending more rapidly than other countries to respond to the pandemic. Of course, international comparisons also have limitations. Population characteristics differ, and some countries may use resources more efficiently than others and there may be differences in how countries recorded COVID-19 spend.
Overall if the UK had matched EU14 levels of spending per person on health, day-to-day running costs would have been £39bn higher each year, on average, over the past decade (£30.5bn of which would have been additional government spending). For capital spending, matching the cumulative EU14 average over the past decade would have resulted in the UK investing £33bn more in health-related buildings and equipment. These are significant gaps in spending. Had UK spending kept up with European neighbours it is fair to assume the NHS would have been more resilient and had greater capacity to provide care during the pandemic and reduce the large backlog of care that is its legacy.'
This underinvestment was a choice. We're now living in the bit of the future Cameron & May chose not to think about.
So I think of the card carrying pb blue lovelies, @Casino_Royale@TSE@MaxPB and yours truly have voted for Kemi while @HYUFD and @Mortimer backed Jenrick. And @MarqueeMark 'abstained'. Have I missed anyone?
The result will be announced at 11.00 am on Saturday.
So I think of the card carrying pb blue lovelies, @Casino_Royale@TSE@MaxPB and yours truly have voted for Kemi while @HYUFD and @Mortimer backed Jenrick. And @MarqueeMark 'abstained'. Have I missed anyone?
The result will be announced at 11.00 am on Saturday.
Anyone who feels sorry for Jeremy Clarkson and his Brexiteer farmers hoot your horns.......
I suspect there are going to substantial demonstrations outside number 10 by the farming community and those new labour mps in rural constituencies are unlikely to win at the next GE
The joke on @Woger is that Clarkson was exactly the kind of person the Remain campaign needed.
If you've actually heard him talk on the subject, he puts across an interesting, funny and attention grabbing case why Remain was the right answer.
I don`t know why Jenrick is such long odds unless the bookies have inside knowledge.
They've met him?
He was on the telly at lunchtime and I had to turn it off. The guy is simply odious. The sort of bloke you'd avoid in an otherwise empty pub.
The fake accent is one of the more annoying aspects.
Kemi is crap and cowardly and weird but far less annoying than JENRICK. Given we'd have to put up with him on the telly for the next five two years, all those PB Tories who have cast their votes for Kemi are doing a public service.
But who will lead them into the next election? What are the odds on Boris?
I don`t know why Jenrick is such long odds unless the bookies have inside knowledge.
At this stage, it will be very clear.
I think Jenrick will still pip 40% of the members vote but it's pretty clear Kemi has won this.
The 1.15 is free money
How is it clear? Genuine question.
Anecdotally she seems to have won on PB, but lost amongst members I know, some of whom really "ought" to have been voting for her.
The only set of reasonably-accessible Conservatives I have is PB: all others are too diffuse. They include a wide range, from the less ideological @Big_G_NorthWales to the Last Centurion @HYUFD. As a convenient convenience (ouch) sample I find them useful, but yes you are correct, they are not representative. So yes, it wouldn't surprise me if she's lost. But you make your decisions on the data you have at the time: I've second-guessed myself enough in the past and not keen on repeating it.
A council is considering a city centre ban on cyclists to protect pedestrians, with fines for people who do not comply.
Birmingham City council has become the latest local authority to discuss barring cyclists from pedestrian-only areas to curb anti-social cycling.
A report by the council’s regulation and community safety executives has raised concerns that food and parcel couriers on e-bikes, travelling “at speed and without care for pedestrians”, pose a particular danger to the public in areas of high footfall.
The report, published earlier this month, proposes extending the city’s public spaces protection order to encompass cycling. The move would add it to a list of anti-social behaviours that includes graffiti, street drinking, large gatherings, and excessive noise.
The report said cycling could be “restricted by time periods” or banned outright, with the issue being put to a public consultation.
So I think of the card carrying pb blue lovelies, @Casino_Royale@TSE@MaxPB and yours truly have voted for Kemi while @HYUFD and @Mortimer backed Jenrick. And @MarqueeMark 'abstained'. Have I missed anyone?
The result will be announced at 11.00 am on Saturday.
fpt Serious question here, not trying to provoke just soliciting opinions
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
I don't think to say we are a "mess" that can be "fixed" by politicians is the right framing. But we do have problems and I agree that our politics penalises being honest about what is and isn't realistic for governments to do. This is mainly the fault of the electorate.
Eg this idea that the government (Tory or Labour) can enact policies to transform our growth prospects relative to our peers. That's delusional. I'd like politicians to stop promising it. Banning them from even talking about growth would be ideal tbh.
Hm. I think I get where you're coming from. Growth can't be magicked out of nowhere simply by wanting it, just as you can't legislate for sunshine. But politicians can do a lot to inhibit growth. So by not doing those things, they can promote growth. Of course, some of those obviously growth-inhibiting things are things which on balance we might want to do anyway - like, for example, green belt protection.
I dislike both Badenoch and Jenrick but will be happy to see the back of the latter. At least Badenoch might bring something different to the table , and as far as I know she hasn’t had murals painted over !
Comments
I think most of us agree the country is in a mess, don't think that is in dispute
So given that how many believe a government can actually get elected with policies that could fix the mess.
Personally my view is however you fix it either to the left or right......you wont get elected being honest about it
Q: What do hillbillies do for Halloween?
A: Pump kin.
Is she amazing? Probably not, though just referring to past primaries doesn't mean anything, Biden went through two and still ended up winning a third and the presidency. Record as VP? Not much to go on.
The campaign itself? Hard to judge these things until we see the outcomes. She's not done much open questioning, but had plenty of the big crowd events Americans love. She's reached out to disaffected Republicans and taken a tougher stance on the border etc to serk to address concerns. And the end result is it's sadly still 50/50, but hardly disastrous then.
So is it enough? Probably not, and that will be it's own statement. But has she been horrendous? No. And a tie breaker.
We need to decide the core priorities of the state, and focus on doing those and providing for those better. Probably moving to an insurance based NHS model along the lines of the continent
You need very strong leaders to overcome that and bring the public with them. Our leaders are weak, often running scared even with big majorities.
The idea politicians can't be honest comes from 2017 but imo blaming the social care manifesto completely misreads that election. Lynton Crosby ran a dire campaign apparently designed for Boris, but most important were the two terrorist outrages against a backdrop of massive police cuts. Law and order scuppered the law and order party.
But in general on the major political markets does the 70% chance comes through 70% of the time, the 20% chance 20% of the time etc.?
She's on the record as favouring the abolition of all private schools and all grammar schools. And she's tone-deaf to why either are beneficial. She's had multiple appeals over recent months about the impact rushing a major tax change in the middle of an academic year will have on pupils and staff, who still don't know what the legislation will say and have barely a few weeks to plan for it, and she's ignored them all. Education is a public good, that's why it's never been taxed, and she's now about to do so because she has an axe to grind.
All because a couple of pompous public school boys ribbed her over her background when she was playing chess 30 years ago and she's had a chip on her shoulder ever since.
It tells you a lot about someone who's that determined and bloody-minded about revenge: none of it good.
Any chance someone will stop doing the same old thing again and again, and perhaps consider what actually works elsewhere?
And, for what??
I think Jenrick will still pip 40% of the members vote but it's pretty clear Kemi has won this.
The 1.15 is free money
This anecdote would be really good if I knew how well the POTUS market was calibrated, now wouldn't it...
And you with woke and this has a pretty personal element, though you're not a leading politician.
I've not seen Reeves reference this stuff, do you have sources?
I have sympathy with both Kemi's sorry and encountering public school oiks (who have also played a major role in the failure of the nation in the last 15 years), but public policy against such perceived issues should be on
some kind of more objective footing.
As a country we spent less than comparable nations. So yes £200 billion.
'This analysis examines how health care spending in the UK compares with EU countries in the decade preceding the pandemic. Taking a longer term view enables us to see how trends in spending may have impacted health care resilience today.
Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.
If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).
Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.
Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).'
https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/how-does-uk-health-spending-compare-across-europe-over-the-past-decade
Also my accent has been compared to 'If Jimmy Carr* was from Yorkshire.'
*Also Hugh Grant.
the corollary to that is therefore democracy can no longer work as we can't fix the country while using it. I have an absolute preference for democracy however if it can't fix our current situation maybe for a time we need to fall back on something else. Just like in ww2, I don't think anyone wanted rationing but we needed to do it.
Eg this idea that the government (Tory or Labour) can enact policies to transform our growth prospects relative to our peers. That's delusional. I'd like politicians to stop promising it. Banning them from even talking about growth would be ideal tbh.
TSE can be amusing.
I've no idea why anyone would compare him to Jimmy C.
Actual policies that might go some way to fixing things seem to me to be only likely if from nowhere a bit of a different political movement emerges. Somewhere in the Traditional Liberal/Traditional Tory space would do very nicely. I can't really think of a single politician though that is somehow going to leap to the challenge.
a) The country is in a mess
b) The country can't be fixed by parties that get elected for a five year term
I believe both a and b to be true
When she was younger, a female relative had a close shave with an attacker on the street. She did not report it to the police, and told only her fellow nurses. Nowadays, it might be local or national headlines.
Expectations of behaviour are higher, and the limits of tolerable behaviour much narrower. and stepping outside both of those can become much more widely known than was possible decades ago.
I'd argue that rather than making the country a 'mess', it makes us stronger.
https://x.com/Joe_Mayes/status/1852037042781249797
https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1852033622494105832
No.
However I wasn't just talking about daily services I was referring to the ever expanding bill we are paying for less and less, lots of causes none of which can be addressed by a party that actually wants to be elected
It started off badly for Trump with the hate rally and joke gate , Biden then rode in to help him with his garbage gaffe and now the Trump campaign is trying to distance itself from the House Speaker Mike Johnson’s comments on Obamacare .
Trump then decides to crash and burn even more with women by telling them he’ll protect them whether they like it or not .
After all the rapist is going to protect American women.
The result will be announced at 11.00 am on Saturday.
Frank Luntz
@FrankLuntz
I spoke with @SaraSidnerCNN this morning about why I think Trump currently has a slight advantage in momentum, but also how the election could go either way next Tuesday.
Not a bold stance, I know – but it is the reality.
https://x.com/FrankLuntz
Unfortunately with rare exceptions like the presidential markets they're just not big enough that (imo) you could do this for a living, or certainly not my trading style. But it's nice to have a hobby that makes money.
Going to be shocked when you find your Clarkson did not support Brexit.
I thought the "too many people, not enough machines" issue was broadly accepted.
A possible suggestion. Mutually agreed governments of occupation. So (say) we elect the German government, they elect the French, the French elect ours. Stops voters voting themselves pay rises but gives a guardrail against dictators going sour.
fivetwo years, all those PB Tories who have cast their votes for Kemi are doing a public service.So you have lots of people milling around, trying to do.... stuff.
Anecdotally she seems to have won on PB, but lost amongst members I know, some of whom really "ought" to have been voting for her.
But, I’ll likely rejoin if Kemi wins.
It would probably have been better to raise the money via income tax or VAT but that's politically impossible - made so by political parties themselves and their perceived (and probably correct) estimate of how we the public would react.
(Incidentally, *still* trying to find that video of the RSS in black shorts. Dammit, that was so perfect...)
'This analysis shows that over the past decade the UK has spent less on both day-to-day care and investment spending on health care compared with the average EU14 countries. This is mirrored by less capacity, fewer physical resources and therefore greater vulnerability to sudden surges in demand. This meant the UK had to increase spending more rapidly than other countries to respond to the pandemic. Of course, international comparisons also have limitations. Population characteristics differ, and some countries may use resources more efficiently than others and there may be differences in how countries recorded COVID-19 spend.
Overall if the UK had matched EU14 levels of spending per person on health, day-to-day running costs would have been £39bn higher each year, on average, over the past decade (£30.5bn of which would have been additional government spending). For capital spending, matching the cumulative EU14 average over the past decade would have resulted in the UK investing £33bn more in health-related buildings and equipment. These are significant gaps in spending. Had UK spending kept up with European neighbours it is fair to assume the NHS would have been more resilient and had greater capacity to provide care during the pandemic and reduce the large backlog of care that is its legacy.'
This underinvestment was a choice. We're now living in the bit of the future Cameron & May chose not to think about.
If you've actually heard him talk on the subject, he puts across an interesting, funny and attention grabbing case why Remain was the right answer.
Here's hoping for an uneventful twelve days or so.
What are the odds on Boris?
Birmingham City council has become the latest local authority to discuss barring cyclists from pedestrian-only areas to curb anti-social cycling.
A report by the council’s regulation and community safety executives has raised concerns that food and parcel couriers on e-bikes, travelling “at speed and without care for pedestrians”, pose a particular danger to the public in areas of high footfall.
The report, published earlier this month, proposes extending the city’s public spaces protection order to encompass cycling. The move would add it to a list of anti-social behaviours that includes graffiti, street drinking, large gatherings, and excessive noise.
The report said cycling could be “restricted by time periods” or banned outright, with the issue being put to a public consultation.
I think I get where you're coming from. Growth can't be magicked out of nowhere simply by wanting it, just as you can't legislate for sunshine.
But politicians can do a lot to inhibit growth. So by not doing those things, they can promote growth.
Of course, some of those obviously growth-inhibiting things are things which on balance we might want to do anyway - like, for example, green belt protection.