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The fundamentals and history still favour Trump and punters agree – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,085
edited October 15 in General
imageThe fundamentals and history still favour Trump and punters agree – politicalbetting.com

Our analysis shows candidate ahead on key issue wins 85% of the time.So available data suggests coin toss but it does seem like fundamentals (& low Biden approvals) favour Trump. Especially if you add history of polling misses in blue wall.So yeah ????

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,969
    I see there is a massive logic fail occurred on the previous thread. Duh!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,546
    @ProjectLincoln

    Trump just cancelled another tv interview. This isn't normal and Americans deserve to know what is wrong with him.

    https://x.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1846198091483173253
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,851
    edited October 15
    Scott_xP said:

    @ProjectLincoln

    Trump just cancelled another tv interview. This isn't normal and Americans deserve to know what is wrong with him.

    https://x.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1846198091483173253

    There's an advertorial on there for mocktail cannabis drinks: "alcohol-free drinks that offer a zero-proof buzz ".
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,509
    UK considering EU-style common charging cable
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2lj58jql8o

    I do hope that we're going to exercise our Brexit freedoms and mandate USB B Micro :lol:
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,546
    Selebian said:

    UK considering EU-style common charging cable
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2lj58jql8o

    I do hope that we're going to exercise our Brexit freedoms and mandate USB B Micro :lol:

    5 pin DIN
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,851
    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    UK considering EU-style common charging cable
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2lj58jql8o

    I do hope that we're going to exercise our Brexit freedoms and mandate USB B Micro :lol:

    I misread that as BBC Micro - which would be even better.
    "From Acorns mighty oaks grow"
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,700
    edited October 15
    Take the names, personalities and partisan politics out of it and consider how the situation would look to someone new.

    The incumbent is unpopular because of perceived failure on the economy and has been forced to withdraw from the contest following a disastrous debate. They have been replaced by their deputy, leaving their party tied to the record of the incumbent.

    The challenger is favoured on the two most important issues to the electorate - the economy and immigration - and is personally more popular now than when they won election eight years ago.


    That sounds like it should be a blowout win for the Challenger. It won't be, in part because the strength of the partisan divide makes a blowout win for either side much more difficult.

    But the Democrats and Harris have a hell of a mountain to climb for this election.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,353
    Posted in the previous thread just as it died, of course.

    My gut is that the polls are overstating Trump. I think they have overcorrected for the errors of the last election - there are no shy Trump voters now. If they are making a mistake about the composition of the electorate, I think it is more likely that they are underestimating the number of new voters and turnout % for young women, both of which skew Harris.

    Furthermore, I think, given the small sample sizes of most of the Trump-biased pollsters (Rasmussen, Trafalgar etc…), there is a programme of poll shopping going on specifically in order to bias the RCP averages in Trumps favor.

    My gut is that Harris wins 310-320 Electoral College votes (I.e. all the swing states, with an outside possibility of a Florida surprise). My fear is that this is wishful thinking.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,813
    Selebian said:

    UK considering EU-style common charging cable
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2lj58jql8o

    I do hope that we're going to exercise our Brexit freedoms and mandate USB B Micro :lol:

    Centronics 50 pin....
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,350
    Hold on. Econometric models don't work in US elections, or at least haven't done so a lot. It hasn't been "the economy stupid" since the 1990s.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,511
    This seems so familiar:

    "So here is a theory. The normal resting state of the race is for Trump to be a little ahead. But Harris has enjoyed three big bumps since becoming the Democratic candidate, and each of them has made the race trend her way before fading. The first bump, and biggest by far, was when Biden pulled out of the race. The second, and second biggest, was the Democratic convention. And the third was the Sept. 10 debate between Harris and Trump."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/3187728/a-shift-in-the-race/

    So similar to what I have written on here a couple of times over the last few weeks. Harris needs another bump.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,710
    "XL bully savages fellow family dog after owner appeals destruction order"

    https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2024-10-14/xl-bully-saved-from-destruction-savages-fellow-family-dog
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,847
    viewcode said:

    Hold on. Econometric models don't work in US elections, or at least haven't done so a lot. It hasn't been "the economy stupid" since the 1990s.

    The challenger is very much running on the cost of living increases of the past four years.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,813
    Andy_JS said:

    "XL bully savages fellow family dog after owner appeals destruction order"

    https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2024-10-14/xl-bully-saved-from-destruction-savages-fellow-family-dog

    There's a joke in there, about face eating leopards. But somehow....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,358
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    I think this insane Kamala Harris racist crypto bailout policy statement COULD be her “deplorables” - whereas the Columbus Day speech was bad but not dire as it was old. This is new

    But yesterday you were saying the Columbus Day speech was Kamala’s deplorables moment.

    *emits a wearied sigh*
    You’re going to be finding a lot of deplorables moments over the next month, aren’t you?
    It's slightly odd. His contributions on the US election are not at all what you would expect from someone who'd prefer Donald Trump to lose it.
    Well look, I'd prefer Donald Trump to lose it. But Donald Trump's failings are well known. It's sadly no longer particularly interesting to say 'look at what terrible thing Donald Trump has said now' because he can't actually appear any more unhinged than he already is. If he came onto stage and held his finger horizontally on his lips and flickered it up and down going 'bibibibibibibibi', grinned and pointed at his audience, then walked off, it would no longer particularly surprise us, would it?
    Whereas Kamala becoming more awful - like the clip from 2021 yesterday, and this tweet today - is new news.
    I don't want Trump to win. But Kamala is going to blow it by being an identity-obsessed lunatic who appears to disapprove of the concept of her country and most of the people in it. Isn't she? All she had to do was appear the reasonable centrist, but she can't, because that's not where her instincts lie, and she thinks the views of the weird identity-obsessed crowd she hangs round with are the views of the whole country. It's kind of frustrating. And worthy of comment.
    That clip wasn't part of the campaign it was from 3 years ago. Hardly new news. And this today is a targeted pitch to a voter segment (young black men) who Donald Trump has been making gains with. It's nothing more or less than you'd expect her to be doing.
    But spouting shite is not the answer. Her Tweet today was ridiculous, especially the bit about Crypto.
    Do Black people have a natural talent for Crypto?
    Apparently not according to Kamala. She thinks they’re all gullible fools who need protecting from their bad investments, unlike other races
    To be honest, there probably is a reasonable point in there had she had the brains to make it rather than that Brainfart of a tweet.

    Namely that Crypto is something that could probably do with some proper oversight and regulation. She may even roll back from that tweet and start making that point.
    The proposal is a "regulatory framework for crypto and digital assets" so that seems to be what she is proposing.
    The targeting "Black men and others" is a bit odd from a UK perspective but perhaps that's normal for the US.
    Interesting it's spun as pro-digital assets, I suspect the last thing creators of digital "assets" want is a regulatory framework.
    Even worse than “black guys are easily scammed by crypto dealers” is her assumption that black men want to become, or are already, bigtime weed-dealers so the wants to make that legal

    You say this is normal for America but it’s nonsense. If a Republican put out this mad tweet - let alone Trump - the Dems would be screaming “racist stereotyping”. You know that’s true. Because it is true. This looks like racist stereotyping of a particularly infantilising and patronising kind

    Kamala might have good intentions but this is utterly misconceived and a potential major gaffe
    It looks insane. But most of American politics looks insane to me.
    "Now you're talking semantics! What if I told you insane was working a 50-hour week for 50 years, at the end of which they tell you to piss off. Ending up in some retirement village, hoping to die rather than suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,833
    DavidL said:

    This seems so familiar:

    "So here is a theory. The normal resting state of the race is for Trump to be a little ahead. But Harris has enjoyed three big bumps since becoming the Democratic candidate, and each of them has made the race trend her way before fading. The first bump, and biggest by far, was when Biden pulled out of the race. The second, and second biggest, was the Democratic convention. And the third was the Sept. 10 debate between Harris and Trump."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/3187728/a-shift-in-the-race/

    So similar to what I have written on here a couple of times over the last few weeks. Harris needs another bump.

    That is a very convincing article, unfortunately.

    Biden scraped home in the Electoral College, with a 4% lead. If Harris leads by 2% or so, that likely flips Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, and Pennsylvania to Trump.



  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,358
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    This seems so familiar:

    "So here is a theory. The normal resting state of the race is for Trump to be a little ahead. But Harris has enjoyed three big bumps since becoming the Democratic candidate, and each of them has made the race trend her way before fading. The first bump, and biggest by far, was when Biden pulled out of the race. The second, and second biggest, was the Democratic convention. And the third was the Sept. 10 debate between Harris and Trump."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/3187728/a-shift-in-the-race/

    So similar to what I have written on here a couple of times over the last few weeks. Harris needs another bump.

    That is a very convincing article, unfortunately.

    Biden scraped home in the Electoral College, with a 4% lead. If Harris leads by 2% or so, that likely flips Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, and Pennsylvania to Trump.



    306 EVs against 232 is scraping home?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,813

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    I think this insane Kamala Harris racist crypto bailout policy statement COULD be her “deplorables” - whereas the Columbus Day speech was bad but not dire as it was old. This is new

    But yesterday you were saying the Columbus Day speech was Kamala’s deplorables moment.

    *emits a wearied sigh*
    You’re going to be finding a lot of deplorables moments over the next month, aren’t you?
    It's slightly odd. His contributions on the US election are not at all what you would expect from someone who'd prefer Donald Trump to lose it.
    Well look, I'd prefer Donald Trump to lose it. But Donald Trump's failings are well known. It's sadly no longer particularly interesting to say 'look at what terrible thing Donald Trump has said now' because he can't actually appear any more unhinged than he already is. If he came onto stage and held his finger horizontally on his lips and flickered it up and down going 'bibibibibibibibi', grinned and pointed at his audience, then walked off, it would no longer particularly surprise us, would it?
    Whereas Kamala becoming more awful - like the clip from 2021 yesterday, and this tweet today - is new news.
    I don't want Trump to win. But Kamala is going to blow it by being an identity-obsessed lunatic who appears to disapprove of the concept of her country and most of the people in it. Isn't she? All she had to do was appear the reasonable centrist, but she can't, because that's not where her instincts lie, and she thinks the views of the weird identity-obsessed crowd she hangs round with are the views of the whole country. It's kind of frustrating. And worthy of comment.
    That clip wasn't part of the campaign it was from 3 years ago. Hardly new news. And this today is a targeted pitch to a voter segment (young black men) who Donald Trump has been making gains with. It's nothing more or less than you'd expect her to be doing.
    But spouting shite is not the answer. Her Tweet today was ridiculous, especially the bit about Crypto.
    Do Black people have a natural talent for Crypto?
    Apparently not according to Kamala. She thinks they’re all gullible fools who need protecting from their bad investments, unlike other races
    To be honest, there probably is a reasonable point in there had she had the brains to make it rather than that Brainfart of a tweet.

    Namely that Crypto is something that could probably do with some proper oversight and regulation. She may even roll back from that tweet and start making that point.
    The proposal is a "regulatory framework for crypto and digital assets" so that seems to be what she is proposing.
    The targeting "Black men and others" is a bit odd from a UK perspective but perhaps that's normal for the US.
    Interesting it's spun as pro-digital assets, I suspect the last thing creators of digital "assets" want is a regulatory framework.
    Even worse than “black guys are easily scammed by crypto dealers” is her assumption that black men want to become, or are already, bigtime weed-dealers so the wants to make that legal

    You say this is normal for America but it’s nonsense. If a Republican put out this mad tweet - let alone Trump - the Dems would be screaming “racist stereotyping”. You know that’s true. Because it is true. This looks like racist stereotyping of a particularly infantilising and patronising kind

    Kamala might have good intentions but this is utterly misconceived and a potential major gaffe
    It looks insane. But most of American politics looks insane to me.
    "Now you're talking semantics! What if I told you insane was working a 50-hour week for 50 years, at the end of which they tell you to piss off. Ending up in some retirement village, hoping to die rather than suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"
    Yeah

    https://youtu.be/TE3EZdoWIUw?si=fyede9OFYSwMHAdq
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,546
    @TimesRadio
    “If I had to bet, I think Kamala Harris will win comfortably.”

    @RoryStewartUK tells @jhansonradio that polling companies are no longer working, and they’re scared to predict Trump will lose after miscalculating the 2016 election.

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1846219051518849350
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,456
    FPT...

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @harris_wins

    Donald Trump’s rallies are going so poorly that Kamala Harris just played a highlight reel at her rally tonight.

    https://x.com/harris_wins/status/1845986531992879455

    If his rallies are going so poorly and recent polls have Harris ahead how do we account for his 1.79 price on bf? Too short surely?
    I have a suspicion that some of the polls and betting sites are being manipulated by the Trump campaign to set up the narrative that the election was stolen.

    They have the money to distort the betting and partisan polling outfits that hide their methodology, and they have the motive and ability.

    It might be a betting opportunity.

    Remember not to bet more than you can afford to lose.
    I'll be about £2K down if Trump wins with a landslide. On the other hand I'm cumulatively £3.2K up on all my political betting so it's Ladbroke's et al's money I'm playing with. I'll be about £2K up if Kamala wins with a landslide.
    I'm similar but a bit more. Yet I'm not kidding when I say that if I contemplate what a Trump win would mean the potential hit to my betting P/L hardly features.

    But anyway he's not winning. She is. :smile:
    As much as I want her to win because a Trump win would please Putin and embolden Nethanyahu and his economic policies would be a calamity and inflationary as well as increasing the US debt far more than hers my one comfort with him winning would be the reaction of PB's posters for Kamala on here and the grieving they would endure.
    Why would that give you comfort?
    Because their support is borderline obsessive to the extent they will brook no criticism of her. Wilful blindness and they are emotionally invested in her.

    It is a purity test here. If you dare to criticise Kamala, and she is not a great candidate, you get pulled up (as has happened to me a couple of times) for not criticising Trump in the same post.

    I am pretty much where Cookie is on Kamala v Trump. Goes without saying Trump is not going to be great for the USA but Kamala's flaws should be criticised.
    I've always vaguely supposed that people on here are so (understandably) desperate for Trump not to win that it is taboo to say that Harris is also rubbish in case it somehow persuades people not to vote for her.
    I can sort of understand this impulse in UK elections - we are all voters, after all - but I think we can safely assume our views are not being sought by the voters of Erie PA before they make up their minds. (Granted the excellent @Jim_Miller and @SeaShantyIrish2 may look in but I think it's safe to say they have already made up their minds.)
    I think we can reasonably say what we like without fear of jinxing anything.
    So is it just Jim Miller who is "excellent"? Or both me and him? Personally would agree with the former rather than latter!

    As to your statement that, "I think we can safely assume our views are not being sought by the voters of Erie PA before they make up their minds" me thinks this is true in the sense you mean.

    HOWEVER, am concerned that a segment of PBers has been working to turn PB into an adjunct AND amplifyer for Putinist pro-Trump propaganda. Does anyone actually know, is this board being (ab)used in thi way, for example being cited at validation by MAGA-mongers back in the USA?
    We see regular Putinist trolls, who are swiftly excised. We do also see regular PBers repeating Putinist, pro-Trump propaganda, but I think that's because they believe it. They are acting sincerely, if also being полезные дураки, useful idiots.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,499
    viewcode said:

    Hold on. Econometric models don't work in US elections, or at least haven't done so a lot. It hasn't been "the economy stupid" since the 1990s.

    Until they do again.
    No one knows.
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62
    Having problems logging in as TimT, so here I am as MTimT2 …
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62

    Take the names, personalities and partisan politics out of it and consider how the situation would look to someone new.

    The incumbent is unpopular because of perceived failure on the economy and has been forced to withdraw from the contest following a disastrous debate. They have been replaced by their deputy, leaving their party tied to the record of the incumbent.

    The challenger is favoured on the two most important issues to the electorate - the economy and immigration - and is personally more popular now than when they won election eight years ago.


    That sounds like it should be a blowout win for the Challenger. It won't be, in part because the strength of the partisan divide makes a blowout win for either side much more difficult.

    But the Democrats and Harris have a hell of a mountain to climb for this election.

    I hear what you are saying, and the economy is apparently what is driving a lot of first time voters. But I think that there will be a surge in younger women voters this time, compared to all previous elections, and their driving motive is but one thing …. Hint, it’s not the economy or immigration.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,897
    Rogue cyclists who run red lights face prosecution in the square mile.

    As a cyclist this is to be welcomed.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/rogue-cyclists-prosecuted-courts-fines-red-traffic-lights-city-of-london-b1187884.html
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,361

    FPT...

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @harris_wins

    Donald Trump’s rallies are going so poorly that Kamala Harris just played a highlight reel at her rally tonight.

    https://x.com/harris_wins/status/1845986531992879455

    If his rallies are going so poorly and recent polls have Harris ahead how do we account for his 1.79 price on bf? Too short surely?
    I have a suspicion that some of the polls and betting sites are being manipulated by the Trump campaign to set up the narrative that the election was stolen.

    They have the money to distort the betting and partisan polling outfits that hide their methodology, and they have the motive and ability.

    It might be a betting opportunity.

    Remember not to bet more than you can afford to lose.
    I'll be about £2K down if Trump wins with a landslide. On the other hand I'm cumulatively £3.2K up on all my political betting so it's Ladbroke's et al's money I'm playing with. I'll be about £2K up if Kamala wins with a landslide.
    I'm similar but a bit more. Yet I'm not kidding when I say that if I contemplate what a Trump win would mean the potential hit to my betting P/L hardly features.

    But anyway he's not winning. She is. :smile:
    As much as I want her to win because a Trump win would please Putin and embolden Nethanyahu and his economic policies would be a calamity and inflationary as well as increasing the US debt far more than hers my one comfort with him winning would be the reaction of PB's posters for Kamala on here and the grieving they would endure.
    Why would that give you comfort?
    Because their support is borderline obsessive to the extent they will brook no criticism of her. Wilful blindness and they are emotionally invested in her.

    It is a purity test here. If you dare to criticise Kamala, and she is not a great candidate, you get pulled up (as has happened to me a couple of times) for not criticising Trump in the same post.

    I am pretty much where Cookie is on Kamala v Trump. Goes without saying Trump is not going to be great for the USA but Kamala's flaws should be criticised.
    I've always vaguely supposed that people on here are so (understandably) desperate for Trump not to win that it is taboo to say that Harris is also rubbish in case it somehow persuades people not to vote for her.
    I can sort of understand this impulse in UK elections - we are all voters, after all - but I think we can safely assume our views are not being sought by the voters of Erie PA before they make up their minds. (Granted the excellent @Jim_Miller and @SeaShantyIrish2 may look in but I think it's safe to say they have already made up their minds.)
    I think we can reasonably say what we like without fear of jinxing anything.
    So is it just Jim Miller who is "excellent"? Or both me and him? Personally would agree with the former rather than latter!

    As to your statement that, "I think we can safely assume our views are not being sought by the voters of Erie PA before they make up their minds" me thinks this is true in the sense you mean.

    HOWEVER, am concerned that a segment of PBers has been working to turn PB into an adjunct AND amplifyer for Putinist pro-Trump propaganda. Does anyone actually know, is this board being (ab)used in thi way, for example being cited at validation by MAGA-mongers back in the USA?
    We see regular Putinist trolls, who are swiftly excised. We do also see regular PBers repeating Putinist, pro-Trump propaganda, but I think that's because they believe it. They are acting sincerely, if also being полезные дураки, useful idiots.
    Yes, I know all about that, of course.

    What I do NOT know, is the degree (if any) that PB is being (ab)used as part of the Putin/Trump echo chamber back in US and elsewhere?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,499
    For any other candidate, this sort of thing would be a massive negative.
    But Trump voters simply don't believe it, or don't care.

    Below is a fascinating example of Trump supporters' fantasy world. They tell a story of Trump charity to Nelson Mandela that somehow has gone untold until now.

    What actually happened was that Trump creditors seized his "Trump Shuttle" airline during Trump's first bankruptcy in summer 1990. The creditors leased Trump-branded planes to anyone who would pay a commercial rate, including Nelson Mandela's eight-city US tour that year...

    https://x.com/davidfrum/status/1845924420621422788

    There's an entire thread of this stuff.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,511
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    This seems so familiar:

    "So here is a theory. The normal resting state of the race is for Trump to be a little ahead. But Harris has enjoyed three big bumps since becoming the Democratic candidate, and each of them has made the race trend her way before fading. The first bump, and biggest by far, was when Biden pulled out of the race. The second, and second biggest, was the Democratic convention. And the third was the Sept. 10 debate between Harris and Trump."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/3187728/a-shift-in-the-race/

    So similar to what I have written on here a couple of times over the last few weeks. Harris needs another bump.

    That is a very convincing article, unfortunately.

    Biden scraped home in the Electoral College, with a 4% lead. If Harris leads by 2% or so, that likely flips Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, and Pennsylvania to Trump.



    She can afford to lose the first 3 if she holds that last one. This race is all about Pennsylvania. Always has been, always will be. Harris was there yesterday. She should be there practically every day until November 5th.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,511
    MTimT2 said:

    Having problems logging in as TimT, so here I am as MTimT2 …

    Are you going to start making weird beeping noises?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,851
    Scott_xP said:

    @TimesRadio
    “If I had to bet, I think Kamala Harris will win comfortably.”

    @RoryStewartUK tells @jhansonradio that polling companies are no longer working, and they’re scared to predict Trump will lose after miscalculating the 2016 election.

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1846219051518849350

    Can someone let him know how exchanges work?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,358
    Does the Boeing 737 Have ANOTHER Major Flaw!?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnlVzYBDcqw
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    This seems so familiar:

    "So here is a theory. The normal resting state of the race is for Trump to be a little ahead. But Harris has enjoyed three big bumps since becoming the Democratic candidate, and each of them has made the race trend her way before fading. The first bump, and biggest by far, was when Biden pulled out of the race. The second, and second biggest, was the Democratic convention. And the third was the Sept. 10 debate between Harris and Trump."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/3187728/a-shift-in-the-race/

    So similar to what I have written on here a couple of times over the last few weeks. Harris needs another bump.

    That is a very convincing article, unfortunately.

    Biden scraped home in the Electoral College, with a 4% lead. If Harris leads by 2% or so, that likely flips Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, and Pennsylvania to Trump.



    Remember, the Washington Examiner is owned by the Moonies and is very conservative. Not exactly an impartial source.
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62
    edited October 15
    DavidL said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Having problems logging in as TimT, so here I am as MTimT2 …

    Are you going to start making weird beeping noises?
    LOL. My wife accuses me of making lots of noises, but beeping is not usually the charge …
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,207
    DavidL said:

    This seems so familiar:

    "So here is a theory. The normal resting state of the race is for Trump to be a little ahead. But Harris has enjoyed three big bumps since becoming the Democratic candidate, and each of them has made the race trend her way before fading. The first bump, and biggest by far, was when Biden pulled out of the race. The second, and second biggest, was the Democratic convention. And the third was the Sept. 10 debate between Harris and Trump."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/3187728/a-shift-in-the-race/

    So similar to what I have written on here a couple of times over the last few weeks. Harris needs another bump.

    Yes. I don't think she will get one. I very much want her to win, but though any candidate is better then Trump for me, for the USA as a whole I doubt if Harris is quite up to the mark. I have thought Trump will win all along and I still do.

    I am even more sure that the result will be either a straight Trump win, accepted as a fact by more or less all, or a result which will be bitterly contested more or less for ever with an outcome uncertain.

    What this election lacks is any sense of joy that a great democracy is going to make a great democratic decision and democracy will thankfully and cheerfully get on with the outcome. This is an aspect of UK elections which really exists. I think it is tragically absent in the USA.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,847
    Scott_xP said:

    @TimesRadio
    “If I had to bet, I think Kamala Harris will win comfortably.”

    @RoryStewartUK tells @jhansonradio that polling companies are no longer working, and they’re scared to predict Trump will lose after miscalculating the 2016 election.

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1846219051518849350

    Centrist foreign former politician absolutely horrified by the idea that Trump could win again, desperately hopes all the polling is wrong…
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,511
    MTimT2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    This seems so familiar:

    "So here is a theory. The normal resting state of the race is for Trump to be a little ahead. But Harris has enjoyed three big bumps since becoming the Democratic candidate, and each of them has made the race trend her way before fading. The first bump, and biggest by far, was when Biden pulled out of the race. The second, and second biggest, was the Democratic convention. And the third was the Sept. 10 debate between Harris and Trump."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/3187728/a-shift-in-the-race/

    So similar to what I have written on here a couple of times over the last few weeks. Harris needs another bump.

    That is a very convincing article, unfortunately.

    Biden scraped home in the Electoral College, with a 4% lead. If Harris leads by 2% or so, that likely flips Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, and Pennsylvania to Trump.



    Remember, the Washington Examiner is owned by the Moonies and is very conservative. Not exactly an impartial source.
    The source is very pro Trump, no doubt about it. But the argument is one that fits the facts as I have pointed out myself in the past. Its a mistake to disregard the argument just because you don't like its source.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,415
    Scott_xP said:

    @TimesRadio
    “If I had to bet, I think Kamala Harris will win comfortably.”

    @RoryStewartUK tells @jhansonradio that polling companies are no longer working, and they’re scared to predict Trump will lose after miscalculating the 2016 election.

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1846219051518849350

    And what the hell does he know?

    This is just supposition
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,147

    Scott_xP said:

    @TimesRadio
    “If I had to bet, I think Kamala Harris will win comfortably.”

    @RoryStewartUK tells @jhansonradio that polling companies are no longer working, and they’re scared to predict Trump will lose after miscalculating the 2016 election.

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1846219051518849350

    And what the hell does he know?

    This is just supposition
    He knows a lot less than he thinks he does.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,689
    edited October 15

    FPT...

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Barnesian said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @harris_wins

    Donald Trump’s rallies are going so poorly that Kamala Harris just played a highlight reel at her rally tonight.

    https://x.com/harris_wins/status/1845986531992879455

    If his rallies are going so poorly and recent polls have Harris ahead how do we account for his 1.79 price on bf? Too short surely?
    I have a suspicion that some of the polls and betting sites are being manipulated by the Trump campaign to set up the narrative that the election was stolen.

    They have the money to distort the betting and partisan polling outfits that hide their methodology, and they have the motive and ability.

    It might be a betting opportunity.

    Remember not to bet more than you can afford to lose.
    I'll be about £2K down if Trump wins with a landslide. On the other hand I'm cumulatively £3.2K up on all my political betting so it's Ladbroke's et al's money I'm playing with. I'll be about £2K up if Kamala wins with a landslide.
    I'm similar but a bit more. Yet I'm not kidding when I say that if I contemplate what a Trump win would mean the potential hit to my betting P/L hardly features.

    But anyway he's not winning. She is. :smile:
    As much as I want her to win because a Trump win would please Putin and embolden Nethanyahu and his economic policies would be a calamity and inflationary as well as increasing the US debt far more than hers my one comfort with him winning would be the reaction of PB's posters for Kamala on here and the grieving they would endure.
    Why would that give you comfort?
    Because their support is borderline obsessive to the extent they will brook no criticism of her. Wilful blindness and they are emotionally invested in her.

    It is a purity test here. If you dare to criticise Kamala, and she is not a great candidate, you get pulled up (as has happened to me a couple of times) for not criticising Trump in the same post.

    I am pretty much where Cookie is on Kamala v Trump. Goes without saying Trump is not going to be great for the USA but Kamala's flaws should be criticised.
    I've always vaguely supposed that people on here are so (understandably) desperate for Trump not to win that it is taboo to say that Harris is also rubbish in case it somehow persuades people not to vote for her.
    I can sort of understand this impulse in UK elections - we are all voters, after all - but I think we can safely assume our views are not being sought by the voters of Erie PA before they make up their minds. (Granted the excellent @Jim_Miller and @SeaShantyIrish2 may look in but I think it's safe to say they have already made up their minds.)
    I think we can reasonably say what we like without fear of jinxing anything.
    So is it just Jim Miller who is "excellent"? Or both me and him? Personally would agree with the former rather than latter!

    As to your statement that, "I think we can safely assume our views are not being sought by the voters of Erie PA before they make up their minds" me thinks this is true in the sense you mean.

    HOWEVER, am concerned that a segment of PBers has been working to turn PB into an adjunct AND amplifyer for Putinist pro-Trump propaganda. Does anyone actually know, is this board being (ab)used in thi way, for example being cited at validation by MAGA-mongers back in the USA?
    We see regular Putinist trolls, who are swiftly excised. We do also see regular PBers repeating Putinist, pro-Trump propaganda, but I think that's because they believe it. They are acting sincerely, if also being полезные дураки, useful idiots.
    Yes, I know all about that, of course.

    What I do NOT know, is the degree (if any) that PB is being (ab)used as part of the Putin/Trump echo chamber back in US and elsewhere?
    Just skip over all of Leon’s cognitively-challenged posts, and you will be just fine.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,878

    Rick Wilson
    @TheRickWilson
    ·
    50m
    At this rate, if Trump is sworn in, JD Vance will invoke the 25th Amendment in the car on the way back to the White House.

    https://x.com/TheRickWilson
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,350
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    Hold on. Econometric models don't work in US elections, or at least haven't done so a lot. It hasn't been "the economy stupid" since the 1990s.

    Until they do again.
    No one knows.
    Hah! Fair point :(
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,350
    edited October 15
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @TimesRadio
    “If I had to bet, I think Kamala Harris will win comfortably.”

    @RoryStewartUK tells @jhansonradio that polling companies are no longer working, and they’re scared to predict Trump will lose after miscalculating the 2016 election.

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1846219051518849350

    Centrist foreign former politician absolutely horrified by the idea that Trump could win again, desperately hopes all the polling is wrong…
    I desperately need a one-handed psephologist. Somebody find a psephologist, amputate a hand, and bring them to me so I may put them to the question.
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62
    edited October 15
    DavidL said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    This seems so familiar:

    "So here is a theory. The normal resting state of the race is for Trump to be a little ahead. But Harris has enjoyed three big bumps since becoming the Democratic candidate, and each of them has made the race trend her way before fading. The first bump, and biggest by far, was when Biden pulled out of the race. The second, and second biggest, was the Democratic convention. And the third was the Sept. 10 debate between Harris and Trump."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/3187728/a-shift-in-the-race/

    So similar to what I have written on here a couple of times over the last few weeks. Harris needs another bump.

    That is a very convincing article, unfortunately.

    Biden scraped home in the Electoral College, with a 4% lead. If Harris leads by 2% or so, that likely flips Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, and Pennsylvania to Trump.



    Remember, the Washington Examiner is owned by the Moonies and is very conservative. Not exactly an impartial source.
    The source is very pro Trump, no doubt about it. But the argument is one that fits the facts as I have pointed out myself in the past. Its a mistake to disregard the argument just because you don't like its source.
    Read the article. And agree your comment re sources. BUT.
    1. I think the Trump campaign is poll shopping. The sample sizes for Rasmussen, Trafalgar and Insider Advantage are all small and they are pumping out a lot of them. There is no pollster reliability weighting on RCP, so these small polls, shopped or not, count the same as those less frequent polls from the most reputable.
    2. I think they are doing this as a deliberate campaign to skew the RCP average to Trump, and that these actions more than account for the shift back towards Trump since the debate.
    3. I doubt the pollsters have the right electorate and, unlike last time, this time they are underestimating the Dem vote.

    This may be my confirmation bias. But don’t forget, the Washington Examiner is just as susceptible to confirmation bias as anyone else.

    Good news that the judge has just thrown out the GA rule allowing local election officials’ right to dispute results.

    PS. I see you have also mentioned the possibility of poll shopping. And, yes, it is way to close for comfort
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,511
    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    This seems so familiar:

    "So here is a theory. The normal resting state of the race is for Trump to be a little ahead. But Harris has enjoyed three big bumps since becoming the Democratic candidate, and each of them has made the race trend her way before fading. The first bump, and biggest by far, was when Biden pulled out of the race. The second, and second biggest, was the Democratic convention. And the third was the Sept. 10 debate between Harris and Trump."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/3187728/a-shift-in-the-race/

    So similar to what I have written on here a couple of times over the last few weeks. Harris needs another bump.

    Yes. I don't think she will get one. I very much want her to win, but though any candidate is better then Trump for me, for the USA as a whole I doubt if Harris is quite up to the mark. I have thought Trump will win all along and I still do.

    I am even more sure that the result will be either a straight Trump win, accepted as a fact by more or less all, or a result which will be bitterly contested more or less for ever with an outcome uncertain.

    What this election lacks is any sense of joy that a great democracy is going to make a great democratic decision and democracy will thankfully and cheerfully get on with the outcome. This is an aspect of UK elections which really exists. I think it is tragically absent in the USA.
    It's not a million miles away from when we had a choice of Boris or Corbyn. Indeed, I think Harris is better than either of them.

    In the stories about Salmond I did hear one clip from him where he promised that he would accept the result of the referendum gracefully if it went against him (debatable if he lived up to that but there we are). But what he said then is the day after a positive vote there would be no yes campaign and no no campaign. There would be team Scotland looking to take the country forward.

    After Brexit you have to wonder at the truth of that too. I would say that it is unusual, whether in this country or the US for a democratic fight to bring people together. Sometimes the stakes seem higher than others. Corbyn was a real threat to this country. Trump is a real threat to democracy in the US. A clear win would be a good thing but I very much doubt we will see it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,511
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @TimesRadio
    “If I had to bet, I think Kamala Harris will win comfortably.”

    @RoryStewartUK tells @jhansonradio that polling companies are no longer working, and they’re scared to predict Trump will lose after miscalculating the 2016 election.

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1846219051518849350

    Centrist foreign former politician absolutely horrified by the idea that Trump could win again, desperately hopes all the polling is wrong…
    I desperately need a one-handed psephologist. Somebody find a psephologist, amputate a hand, and bring them to me so I may put them to the question.
    Would you be asking them to put their best foot forward?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,878
    Dan Neidle
    @DanNeidle
    ·
    3h
    I don’t believe for a second the Budget will actually put up employer national insurance. It’s one of the worst taxes the Government could raise, and it probably breaks a manifesto promise.

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1846175976218091703
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,499
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    This seems so familiar:

    "So here is a theory. The normal resting state of the race is for Trump to be a little ahead. But Harris has enjoyed three big bumps since becoming the Democratic candidate, and each of them has made the race trend her way before fading. The first bump, and biggest by far, was when Biden pulled out of the race. The second, and second biggest, was the Democratic convention. And the third was the Sept. 10 debate between Harris and Trump."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/3187728/a-shift-in-the-race/

    So similar to what I have written on here a couple of times over the last few weeks. Harris needs another bump.

    That is a very convincing article, unfortunately.

    Biden scraped home in the Electoral College, with a 4% lead. If Harris leads by 2% or so, that likely flips Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, and Pennsylvania to Trump.

    She can afford to lose the first 3 if she holds that last one. This race is all about Pennsylvania. Always has been, always will be. Harris was there yesterday. She should be there practically every day until November 5th.
    PA is pretty likely the key state - but there are other ways for Harris to win which aren't that unlikely.

    As far as the header is concerned, here's some issues polling released by the Harris campaign.
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1845895615030456820

    They think the election is as tight as most of us now do.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,147
    I think TSE is right. This is a 50/50 one. Either candidate trading above ~2.2 is probably modest value. Not much to get excited about, maybe better to keep powder dry for the night and try to react to the data as it comes out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,499
    These also the possibility of the October surprise being Trump having another cognitive moment (or half hour).
    That music thing looked really weird. Is there a full video of it anywhere ? (Edited excerpts can be misleading.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,813

    Dan Neidle
    @DanNeidle
    ·
    3h
    I don’t believe for a second the Budget will actually put up employer national insurance. It’s one of the worst taxes the Government could raise, and it probably breaks a manifesto promise.

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1846175976218091703

    Your reminder that only Extreme Right Wing Neon Nazis believe that National Insurance has anything to do with National Insurance....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,499
    DavidL said:

    This seems so familiar:

    "So here is a theory. The normal resting state of the race is for Trump to be a little ahead. But Harris has enjoyed three big bumps since becoming the Democratic candidate, and each of them has made the race trend her way before fading. The first bump, and biggest by far, was when Biden pulled out of the race. The second, and second biggest, was the Democratic convention. And the third was the Sept. 10 debate between Harris and Trump."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/daily-memo/3187728/a-shift-in-the-race/

    So similar to what I have written on here a couple of times over the last few weeks. Harris needs another bump.

    "Democrats grow anxious" ... LOL.
    That's true of every campaign ever; it's their default.
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62
    Nigelb said:

    These also the possibility of the October surprise being Trump having another cognitive moment (or half hour).
    That music thing looked really weird. Is there a full video of it anywhere ? (Edited excerpts can be misleading.)

    I think the constant drum beat about Trump’s cognitive abilities is beginning to have a cumulative impact. It won’t shift the MAGA base, but it could stiffen the resolve of the Haley voters, or swing those who would only vote Trump because they think he is better on policy issues than Harris. Marginal stuff, but it is the margins that are going to swing this race
  • lintolinto Posts: 38
    Interesting to see there seems to be a bit of a head of steam for Harris appearing on the Joe Rogan show. After being on Fox seems like they're on the attack and putting her out there on shows that lean to the right, not sure what it means but doesn't seem like a sign of weakness to me. Are the right male voters who listen to Rogan open to her after all?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,581
    Well fwiw (lots to me, little to anyone else) I think the polls are overstating Trump this time. So the clear Harris win, when it comes, is going to surprise me less than it does most people.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,499

    Dan Neidle
    @DanNeidle
    ·
    3h
    I don’t believe for a second the Budget will actually put up employer national insurance. It’s one of the worst taxes the Government could raise, and it probably breaks a manifesto promise.

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1846175976218091703

    "We need to get people back into the workforce."

    "Let's raise taxes on that."
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,358
    kinabalu said:

    Well fwiw (lots to me, little to anyone else) I think the polls are overstating Trump this time. So the clear Harris win, when it comes, is going to surprise me less than it does most people.

    Well just three weeks left!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,581
    MTimT2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    These also the possibility of the October surprise being Trump having another cognitive moment (or half hour).
    That music thing looked really weird. Is there a full video of it anywhere ? (Edited excerpts can be misleading.)

    I think the constant drum beat about Trump’s cognitive abilities is beginning to have a cumulative impact. It won’t shift the MAGA base, but it could stiffen the resolve of the Haley voters, or swing those who would only vote Trump because they think he is better on policy issues than Harris. Marginal stuff, but it is the margins that are going to swing this race
    Trump being a deranged wannabe fascist isn't fully priced in iyo then? :smile:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,581

    kinabalu said:

    Well fwiw (lots to me, little to anyone else) I think the polls are overstating Trump this time. So the clear Harris win, when it comes, is going to surprise me less than it does most people.

    Well just three weeks left!
    I know! ... oh god.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,578
    Early in person voting has started in Georgia today, I wonder if a certain ex president has ticked the box for Harris
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,499
    MTimT2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    These also the possibility of the October surprise being Trump having another cognitive moment (or half hour).
    That music thing looked really weird. Is there a full video of it anywhere ? (Edited excerpts can be misleading.)

    I think the constant drum beat about Trump’s cognitive abilities is beginning to have a cumulative impact. It won’t shift the MAGA base, but it could stiffen the resolve of the Haley voters, or swing those who would only vote Trump because they think he is better on policy issues than Harris. Marginal stuff, but it is the margins that are going to swing this race
    I wasn't really considering the cumulative impact so much as the possibility of his decline becoming so bad it's impossible even for the loyalists to completely deny.
    An event with an impact along the lines of the Biden debate.

    That's why he's cancelling planned interviews etc. If there's a growing problem, then three weeks is a very long time to manage it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,878
    Nigelb said:

    Dan Neidle
    @DanNeidle
    ·
    3h
    I don’t believe for a second the Budget will actually put up employer national insurance. It’s one of the worst taxes the Government could raise, and it probably breaks a manifesto promise.

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1846175976218091703

    "We need to get people back into the workforce."

    "Let's raise taxes on that."
    Yeh, doesn't make a lot of sense frankly.

    But maybe desperation is setting in at the Treasury?
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62
    kinabalu said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    These also the possibility of the October surprise being Trump having another cognitive moment (or half hour).
    That music thing looked really weird. Is there a full video of it anywhere ? (Edited excerpts can be misleading.)

    I think the constant drum beat about Trump’s cognitive abilities is beginning to have a cumulative impact. It won’t shift the MAGA base, but it could stiffen the resolve of the Haley voters, or swing those who would only vote Trump because they think he is better on policy issues than Harris. Marginal stuff, but it is the margins that are going to swing this race
    Trump being a deranged wannabe fascist isn't fully priced in iyo then? :smile:
    With the 97% (or whatever the actual figure is) who have made up their mind, yes. Believe it or not, there are still some people who haven’t decided. Most worryingly, it seems that the deranged part phases the electorate more than the fascist part.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,611
    Nigelb said:

    Dan Neidle
    @DanNeidle
    ·
    3h
    I don’t believe for a second the Budget will actually put up employer national insurance. It’s one of the worst taxes the Government could raise, and it probably breaks a manifesto promise.

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1846175976218091703

    "We need to get people back into the workforce."

    "Let's raise taxes on that."
    It is much more likely that employers will have to pay NI on pension contributions than an increase in the 'basic' rate of 13.8%. This would apparently raise £17bn per year!

    This means Rachel wouldn't have to raise too many other taxes, good thing too bearing in mind most of what had been talked about won't work.

    Still room for increase in CGT to 30%, reduction/elimination of CGT and dividend allowances, ISA limits, done technical IHT changes.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,611
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well fwiw (lots to me, little to anyone else) I think the polls are overstating Trump this time. So the clear Harris win, when it comes, is going to surprise me less than it does most people.

    Well just three weeks left!
    I know! ... oh god.
    I am less confident of Kamala winning than I was a few weeks ago but....

    DYOR!
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62
    Nigelb said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    These also the possibility of the October surprise being Trump having another cognitive moment (or half hour).
    That music thing looked really weird. Is there a full video of it anywhere ? (Edited excerpts can be misleading.)

    I think the constant drum beat about Trump’s cognitive abilities is beginning to have a cumulative impact. It won’t shift the MAGA base, but it could stiffen the resolve of the Haley voters, or swing those who would only vote Trump because they think he is better on policy issues than Harris. Marginal stuff, but it is the margins that are going to swing this race
    I wasn't really considering the cumulative impact so much as the possibility of his decline becoming so bad it's impossible even for the loyalists to completely deny.
    An event with an impact along the lines of the Biden debate.

    That's why he's cancelling planned interviews etc. If there's a growing problem, then three weeks is a very long time to manage it.
    I really want for him to be on stage in prime time and have simultaneous attacks of endless violent noisy diarrhea and word salad aphasia.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,361
    linto said:

    Interesting to see there seems to be a bit of a head of steam for Harris appearing on the Joe Rogan show. After being on Fox seems like they're on the attack and putting her out there on shows that lean to the right, not sure what it means but doesn't seem like a sign of weakness to me. Are the right male voters who listen to Rogan open to her after all?

    One of the secrets to the political success of Democratic former WA State Gov. Gary Locke (served two terms from 1997-2005) was his willingness to appear (if thats the right word) as a guest on right-wing nut-bag talk radio.

    Gary (first Asian American governor on US mainland) was greatly helped by his unflappable demeanor, including ability to listen to insults, bullshit, etc. while NOT responding in kind.

    He actually turned into a rather unlikely audience favorite, to the point that he actually hosted a few of these shows on Seattle talk radio, subsituting for the regular shock jock, Republican John Carlson.

    Incidentially, Carlson ran against Locke for Gov in 2000 . . . who beat him like a gong (58% versus 40%).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,985
    ...

    linto said:

    Interesting to see there seems to be a bit of a head of steam for Harris appearing on the Joe Rogan show. After being on Fox seems like they're on the attack and putting her out there on shows that lean to the right, not sure what it means but doesn't seem like a sign of weakness to me. Are the right male voters who listen to Rogan open to her after all?

    One of the secrets to the political success of Democratic former WA State Gov. Gary Locke (served two terms from 1997-2005) was his willingness to appear (if thats the right word) as a guest on right-wing nut-bag talk radio.

    Gary (first Asian American governor on US mainland) was greatly helped by his unflappable demeanor, including ability to listen to insults, bullshit, etc. while NOT responding in kind.

    He actually turned into a rather unlikely audience favorite, to the point that he actually hosted a few of these shows on Seattle talk radio, subsituting for the regular shock jock, Republican John Carlson.

    Incidentially, Carlson ran against Locke for Gov in 2000 . . . who beat him like a gong (58% versus 40%).
    I think it's a good idea for her, if she can hold her own.
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62
    @SeaShanty. Any surprises to look for in Washington re House elections?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,985
    ...
    MTimT2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    These also the possibility of the October surprise being Trump having another cognitive moment (or half hour).
    That music thing looked really weird. Is there a full video of it anywhere ? (Edited excerpts can be misleading.)

    I think the constant drum beat about Trump’s cognitive abilities is beginning to have a cumulative impact. It won’t shift the MAGA base, but it could stiffen the resolve of the Haley voters, or swing those who would only vote Trump because they think he is better on policy issues than Harris. Marginal stuff, but it is the margins that are going to swing this race
    I wasn't really considering the cumulative impact so much as the possibility of his decline becoming so bad it's impossible even for the loyalists to completely deny.
    An event with an impact along the lines of the Biden debate.

    That's why he's cancelling planned interviews etc. If there's a growing problem, then three weeks is a very long time to manage it.
    I really want for him to be on stage in prime time and have simultaneous attacks of endless violent noisy diarrhea and word salad aphasia.
    Repulsive post.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,604
    The more I see Starmer the more I think Gordon Brown.....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,847
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @TimesRadio
    “If I had to bet, I think Kamala Harris will win comfortably.”

    @RoryStewartUK tells @jhansonradio that polling companies are no longer working, and they’re scared to predict Trump will lose after miscalculating the 2016 election.

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1846219051518849350

    Centrist foreign former politician absolutely horrified by the idea that Trump could win again, desperately hopes all the polling is wrong…
    That's not quite accurate. The polling still favours Harris, just. 538 has Harris winning 54 times out of 100 and Trump 45.
    It's just incredibly close. Are right wing pretendy pollsters twisting this? Maybe. Will Harris's GOTV and new voter registration give her an advantage? Maybe. Will the polls underestimate support for Trump once again? Maybe.

    Anyone expressing a confident view one way or the other at this point almost certainly doesn't know what they are talking about.
    Oh absolutely it’s too close to call. My comment had much more to do with the wishcasting of the likes of Rory Stewart, thinking that it must be inconceivable for the evil orange man to win, when the actual polling says it’s very much a toss-up.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,813
    edited October 15

    The more I see Starmer the more I think Gordon Brown.....

    Unfair on Gordon, actually.

    He could, when in the mood, deliver an engaging speech. Not Blair level, but really quite good.

    Starmer is to Brown what Sunak was to Cameron.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,596

    Nigelb said:

    Dan Neidle
    @DanNeidle
    ·
    3h
    I don’t believe for a second the Budget will actually put up employer national insurance. It’s one of the worst taxes the Government could raise, and it probably breaks a manifesto promise.

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1846175976218091703

    "We need to get people back into the workforce."

    "Let's raise taxes on that."
    It is much more likely that employers will have to pay NI on pension contributions than an increase in the 'basic' rate of 13.8%. This would apparently raise £17bn per year!

    This means Rachel wouldn't have to raise too many other taxes, good thing too bearing in mind most of what had been talked about won't work.

    Still room for increase in CGT to 30%, reduction/elimination of CGT and dividend allowances, ISA limits, done technical IHT changes.
    The CGT and dividend allowances are too low currently. Reducing them, or in effect eliminating would cause an admin nightmare. I have no idea how I would calculate CGT on some shares we have eg issued monthly via payroll but not CGT free issued between 20 and 5 years ago some paid for some foc and about 200 allocations. Small beer and impossible to calculate.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,878
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @TimesRadio
    “If I had to bet, I think Kamala Harris will win comfortably.”

    @RoryStewartUK tells @jhansonradio that polling companies are no longer working, and they’re scared to predict Trump will lose after miscalculating the 2016 election.

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1846219051518849350

    Centrist foreign former politician absolutely horrified by the idea that Trump could win again, desperately hopes all the polling is wrong…
    That's not quite accurate. The polling still favours Harris, just. 538 has Harris winning 54 times out of 100 and Trump 45.
    It's just incredibly close. Are right wing pretendy pollsters twisting this? Maybe. Will Harris's GOTV and new voter registration give her an advantage? Maybe. Will the polls underestimate support for Trump once again? Maybe.

    Anyone expressing a confident view one way or the other at this point almost certainly doesn't know what they are talking about.
    Oh absolutely it’s too close to call. My comment had much more to do with the wishcasting of the likes of Rory Stewart, thinking that it must be inconceivable for the evil orange man to win, when the actual polling says it’s very much a toss-up.
    Stewart is very much a rationalist and there is very little that is rational happening in US 2024 election.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,813
    MTimT2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    These also the possibility of the October surprise being Trump having another cognitive moment (or half hour).
    That music thing looked really weird. Is there a full video of it anywhere ? (Edited excerpts can be misleading.)

    I think the constant drum beat about Trump’s cognitive abilities is beginning to have a cumulative impact. It won’t shift the MAGA base, but it could stiffen the resolve of the Haley voters, or swing those who would only vote Trump because they think he is better on policy issues than Harris. Marginal stuff, but it is the margins that are going to swing this race
    Trump being a deranged wannabe fascist isn't fully priced in iyo then? :smile:
    With the 97% (or whatever the actual figure is) who have made up their mind, yes. Believe it or not, there are still some people who haven’t decided. Most worryingly, it seems that the deranged part phases the electorate more than the fascist part.
    It's more (for Trump) about people who are identifying with what he allegedly represents. See the interviews with black men, saying they will vote for Trump - for them it seems to be all about economics.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,581

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well fwiw (lots to me, little to anyone else) I think the polls are overstating Trump this time. So the clear Harris win, when it comes, is going to surprise me less than it does most people.

    Well just three weeks left!
    I know! ... oh god.
    I am less confident of Kamala winning than I was a few weeks ago but....

    DYOR!
    Well I'm also less confident than a few weeks ago. But still pretty confident.
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @TimesRadio
    “If I had to bet, I think Kamala Harris will win comfortably.”

    @RoryStewartUK tells @jhansonradio that polling companies are no longer working, and they’re scared to predict Trump will lose after miscalculating the 2016 election.

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1846219051518849350

    Centrist foreign former politician absolutely horrified by the idea that Trump could win again, desperately hopes all the polling is wrong…
    That's not quite accurate. The polling still favours Harris, just. 538 has Harris winning 54 times out of 100 and Trump 45.
    It's just incredibly close. Are right wing pretendy pollsters twisting this? Maybe. Will Harris's GOTV and new voter registration give her an advantage? Maybe. Will the polls underestimate support for Trump once again? Maybe.

    Anyone expressing a confident view one way or the other at this point almost certainly doesn't know what they are talking about.
    Oh absolutely it’s too close to call. My comment had much more to do with the wishcasting of the likes of Rory Stewart, thinking that it must be inconceivable for the evil orange man to win, when the actual polling says it’s very much a toss-up.
    Stewart is very much a rationalist and there is very little that is rational happening in US 2024 election.
    LOL. It’s pretty rational if you analyze it emotionally.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,813
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well fwiw (lots to me, little to anyone else) I think the polls are overstating Trump this time. So the clear Harris win, when it comes, is going to surprise me less than it does most people.

    Well just three weeks left!
    I know! ... oh god.
    I am less confident of Kamala winning than I was a few weeks ago but....

    DYOR!
    Well I'm also less confident than a few weeks ago. But still pretty confident.
    I'm exactly where I was - 45% for Trump, nailed on. 45% for Harris, nailed on. Coin flip in the last 10%. Once you add in differential turnout and shenanigans at the polls and after.... I've got no idea whose going to win.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,511

    The more I see Starmer the more I think Gordon Brown.....

    Gordon Brown had some fairly daft ideas. But at least he had ideas.
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62

    MTimT2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    These also the possibility of the October surprise being Trump having another cognitive moment (or half hour).
    That music thing looked really weird. Is there a full video of it anywhere ? (Edited excerpts can be misleading.)

    I think the constant drum beat about Trump’s cognitive abilities is beginning to have a cumulative impact. It won’t shift the MAGA base, but it could stiffen the resolve of the Haley voters, or swing those who would only vote Trump because they think he is better on policy issues than Harris. Marginal stuff, but it is the margins that are going to swing this race
    Trump being a deranged wannabe fascist isn't fully priced in iyo then? :smile:
    With the 97% (or whatever the actual figure is) who have made up their mind, yes. Believe it or not, there are still some people who haven’t decided. Most worryingly, it seems that the deranged part phases the electorate more than the fascist part.
    It's more (for Trump) about people who are identifying with what he allegedly represents. See the interviews with black men, saying they will vote for Trump - for them it seems to be all about economics.
    Very much so. I am talking about the currently undecideds, who have not bought into the identity politics of either side. From the analysis I have seen, this group is looking at each of policy, competence, and character as issues to help them decide.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,898
    edited October 15
    Thomas Tuchel is the new England manager.

    Not the German I wanted.

    https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/thomas-tuchel-agrees-new-england-manager-c90909spr
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,847

    ...

    linto said:

    Interesting to see there seems to be a bit of a head of steam for Harris appearing on the Joe Rogan show. After being on Fox seems like they're on the attack and putting her out there on shows that lean to the right, not sure what it means but doesn't seem like a sign of weakness to me. Are the right male voters who listen to Rogan open to her after all?

    One of the secrets to the political success of Democratic former WA State Gov. Gary Locke (served two terms from 1997-2005) was his willingness to appear (if thats the right word) as a guest on right-wing nut-bag talk radio.

    Gary (first Asian American governor on US mainland) was greatly helped by his unflappable demeanor, including ability to listen to insults, bullshit, etc. while NOT responding in kind.

    He actually turned into a rather unlikely audience favorite, to the point that he actually hosted a few of these shows on Seattle talk radio, subsituting for the regular shock jock, Republican John Carlson.

    Incidentially, Carlson ran against Locke for Gov in 2000 . . . who beat him like a gong (58% versus 40%).
    I think it's a good idea for her, if she can hold her own.
    I love the idea that her team is ‘negotiating’ with Rogan.

    Rogan organises pretty much everything himself, he has one producer and one booker to give him ideas, that’s it.

    His ‘rules’ are going to be that you turn up, sit for at least two hours, and we broadcast what we record with no edits bar a bathroom break. Anything else and he’ll come across as a massive sellout to his own fanbase.

    The same rules will of course apply to Trump.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,581

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well fwiw (lots to me, little to anyone else) I think the polls are overstating Trump this time. So the clear Harris win, when it comes, is going to surprise me less than it does most people.

    Well just three weeks left!
    I know! ... oh god.
    I am less confident of Kamala winning than I was a few weeks ago but....

    DYOR!
    Well I'm also less confident than a few weeks ago. But still pretty confident.
    I'm exactly where I was - 45% for Trump, nailed on. 45% for Harris, nailed on. Coin flip in the last 10%. Once you add in differential turnout and shenanigans at the polls and after.... I've got no idea whose going to win.
    Touch of false precision here but I rate it 60/40 Harris. Down from where I was which was 67/33.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,350
    Depressingly convincing reason why there won't be a season three for Ncuti Gatwa...and it's not what you think [TL:DR: the UK TV and film industry is collapsing rapidly]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtLekgVMNNA 26 mins
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,784

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well fwiw (lots to me, little to anyone else) I think the polls are overstating Trump this time. So the clear Harris win, when it comes, is going to surprise me less than it does most people.

    Well just three weeks left!
    I know! ... oh god.
    I am less confident of Kamala winning than I was a few weeks ago but....

    DYOR!
    Well I'm also less confident than a few weeks ago. But still pretty confident.
    I'm exactly where I was - 45% for Trump, nailed on. 45% for Harris, nailed on. Coin flip in the last 10%. Once you add in differential turnout and shenanigans at the polls and after.... I've got no idea whose going to win.
    And nobody can really have much of an idea.

    Like it or not, the US polling industry is so contaminated with garbage, quite a lot of it in pretty bad faith, that any available signal is drowned out by noise. Most of their news media seem to have gone the same way.

    On this side of the pond, the Mail and the Guardian are both dreadful in their own ways. But even when they fail to meet the standard of telling their readers what's actually going on around them, even when they don't particularly try, there is still an acknowledgement that there is a standard from which they have willingly fallen. In the intersection of American/Social/News Media, even that acknowledgement seems to have gone.
  • Thomas Tuchel would become the England men's senior team's fourth foreign coach after Sven-Göran Eriksson (Swedish), Fabio Capello (Italian) and Steve McClaren (Dutch).


    https://x.com/jonnygabriel/status/1846154883780493500?s=46
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,581

    The more I see Starmer the more I think Gordon Brown.....

    What, a towering intellect but lacking interpersonal skills?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,361
    Sandpit said:

    ...

    linto said:

    Interesting to see there seems to be a bit of a head of steam for Harris appearing on the Joe Rogan show. After being on Fox seems like they're on the attack and putting her out there on shows that lean to the right, not sure what it means but doesn't seem like a sign of weakness to me. Are the right male voters who listen to Rogan open to her after all?

    One of the secrets to the political success of Democratic former WA State Gov. Gary Locke (served two terms from 1997-2005) was his willingness to appear (if thats the right word) as a guest on right-wing nut-bag talk radio.

    Gary (first Asian American governor on US mainland) was greatly helped by his unflappable demeanor, including ability to listen to insults, bullshit, etc. while NOT responding in kind.

    He actually turned into a rather unlikely audience favorite, to the point that he actually hosted a few of these shows on Seattle talk radio, subsituting for the regular shock jock, Republican John Carlson.

    Incidentially, Carlson ran against Locke for Gov in 2000 . . . who beat him like a gong (58% versus 40%).
    I think it's a good idea for her, if she can hold her own.
    I love the idea that her team is ‘negotiating’ with Rogan.

    Rogan organises pretty much everything himself, he has one producer and one booker to give him ideas, that’s it.

    His ‘rules’ are going to be that you turn up, sit for at least two hours, and we broadcast what we record with no edits bar a bathroom break. Anything else and he’ll come across as a massive sellout to his own fanbase.

    The same rules will of course apply to Trump.
    Bugeater IS already a massive sellout.

    Rogan was great as a actor (at least on "NewsRadio) back in the last millennium. Since then . . .
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,847

    MTimT2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    These also the possibility of the October surprise being Trump having another cognitive moment (or half hour).
    That music thing looked really weird. Is there a full video of it anywhere ? (Edited excerpts can be misleading.)

    I think the constant drum beat about Trump’s cognitive abilities is beginning to have a cumulative impact. It won’t shift the MAGA base, but it could stiffen the resolve of the Haley voters, or swing those who would only vote Trump because they think he is better on policy issues than Harris. Marginal stuff, but it is the margins that are going to swing this race
    Trump being a deranged wannabe fascist isn't fully priced in iyo then? :smile:
    With the 97% (or whatever the actual figure is) who have made up their mind, yes. Believe it or not, there are still some people who haven’t decided. Most worryingly, it seems that the deranged part phases the electorate more than the fascist part.
    It's more (for Trump) about people who are identifying with what he allegedly represents. See the interviews with black men, saying they will vote for Trump - for them it seems to be all about economics.
    Reagan was right - it’s the economy, stupid.

    Almost no-one bar the elites and the shareholders, feels better off than four years ago.

    https://x.com/1nicdar/status/1846198298371076266
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,433
    I think this election is very much about differential turnout of supporters in the swing states rather than convincing the undecideds, who are few in number and most of whom won't vote anyway.

    Graduates are much more likely to vote than non-graduates. Kamala has a big lead with graduates.

    She has a better ground game with more money and resources.

    "Anti" sentiment is a more powerful motivator to vote than "pro". There is much more "anti" sentiment against Trump. Look at the net approval ratings. Look at the candidates!

    So ignoring the polls, which I suspect are being manipulated, who has the better chance?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,578

    Thomas Tuchel is the new England manager.

    Not the German I wanted.

    https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/thomas-tuchel-agrees-new-england-manager-c90909spr

    Oh, I thought it would be Lee Carsley after he aced the Greek examination
  • Further proof that lawyers like Starmer are the best of humanity whilst the rozzers are a disgrace.

    Undercover policeman admits spying on Keir Starmer when he was a barrister

    Spy says he accessed details of legal advice Starmer gave campaigners in McLibel case


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/15/undercover-policeman-admits-spying-on-keir-starmer-when-he-was-a-barrister
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,700
    It's being reported now that Western intelligence thinks North Korea has sent 10,000 troops to help Russia in the war. This is not a good development.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 34
    Barnesian said:

    I think this election is very much about differential turnout of supporters in the swing states rather than convincing the undecideds, who are few in number and most of whom won't vote anyway.

    Graduates are much more likely to vote than non-graduates. Kamala has a big lead with graduates.

    She has a better ground game with more money and resources.

    "Anti" sentiment is a more powerful motivator to vote than "pro". There is much more "anti" sentiment against Trump. Look at the net approval ratings. Look at the candidates!

    So ignoring the polls, which I suspect are being manipulated, who has the better chance?

    If the GOP manipulate polling, why did it understate them in 2016 and 2020?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,207

    Dan Neidle
    @DanNeidle
    ·
    3h
    I don’t believe for a second the Budget will actually put up employer national insurance. It’s one of the worst taxes the Government could raise, and it probably breaks a manifesto promise.

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1846175976218091703

    This makes perfectly good sense of course but doesn't address the harder question. Which are the tax increases which: stick to the
    election pledges, raise 20-30 billion a year, don't cause flight of the monied from the country, don't end up losing more than you gain, don't discourage enterprise, don't cost jobs and are reasonably willingly paid by those taxed?

    Personally I suggest 5% VAT on all food; taxes on non-work income to be the same as earned income (including pensioners like me); revalue property for council tax and ensure a 2 million house always pays loads and loads more than a 200k house, regardless of location.

    These modest suggestions would probably bring the government down.
  • MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 62
    trukat said:

    Barnesian said:

    I think this election is very much about differential turnout of supporters in the swing states rather than convincing the undecideds, who are few in number and most of whom won't vote anyway.

    Graduates are much more likely to vote than non-graduates. Kamala has a big lead with graduates.

    She has a better ground game with more money and resources.

    "Anti" sentiment is a more powerful motivator to vote than "pro". There is much more "anti" sentiment against Trump. Look at the net approval ratings. Look at the candidates!

    So ignoring the polls, which I suspect are being manipulated, who has the better chance?

    If the GOP manipulate polling, why did it understate them in 2016 and 2020?
    Now is not then
  • Is the allegation that Taylor Swift is trying to influence government policy? This row has completely got away from me.
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