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Despite things going suboptimally so far Labour still has the benefit of the doubt

SystemSystem Posts: 12,126
edited October 11 in General
Despite things going suboptimally so far Labour still has the benefit of the doubt– politicalbetting.com

Overall, 39% of Britons say the UK is in a worse state than before the electionBetter state: 9%About the same: 44%Worse state: 39%Among 2024 Labour voters:Better state: 24%About the same: 58%Worse state: 13%https://t.co/2Il3iOrfUr pic.twitter.com/cVYdgnjUxH

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    No pressure, then.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    I think the final 3 tweets are the ones that matter. Most people think 100 days is still too soon to tell, and on concrete actions, most of them are more popular than not.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    The Tories are +8 on the economy vs Labour on that poll and things become more difficult from here, not easier.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited October 11
    The Autumn Statement is a huge moment for Reeves and the country and the verdict over the following few days could have an enormous impact on the way they are seen by the electorate

    I understand as it stands Sunak will reply, and at least for the conservatives it is the one subject he understands as well as anyone and I do expect a robust response
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,575
    edited October 11
    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Given Rwanda was clearly designed to be a populist policy it's highly surprising that it was not actually... very popular.

    The reason is that the bulk of the British population is much woker than the right-wing loudmouths wish to believe.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited October 11
    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    And handling the riots is rather surprising

    And pensioners losing WFA has caused a problem politically for labour
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    The real issues are undercutting wages, at the low end, through illegal employment practises and the refusal of the Process State to increase infrastructure to match population.

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147
    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,788
    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Given Rwanda was clearly designed to be a populist policy it's highly surprising that it was not actually... very popular.

    The reason is that the bulk of the British population is much woker than the right-wing loudmouths wish to believe.
    No. The opposite is the case. This shows that despite Rwanda being pathetically feeble and hideously expensive and a total failure in that essentially zero people got sent there - almost half the public still want to persist with it

    That’s how keen the public is - to stop the boats
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    But you forget. Starmer has now set up a super tough “border control task force” which will sort everything

    I’m beginning to conclude Starmer is

    1 actually quite stupid and

    2 he therefore really believes crap like this. He’s a Woke apparatchik. He thinks everything can be solved by more bureaucracy
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    RIght now, it looks like the most useful thing we could do to stop the boats is abolish Saturdays.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days

    Not a single boat or a single person for the last five days, and it's a pattern that has been noted before (by @TimS I think?); I don't think the weather has been that bad this week.

    Something odd is going on there.
  • Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    But you forget. Starmer has now set up a super tough “border control task force” which will sort everything

    I’m beginning to conclude Starmer is

    1 actually quite stupid and

    2 he therefore really believes crap like this. He’s a Woke apparatchik. He thinks everything can be solved by more bureaucracy
    To paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi, who is more stupid, the stupid guy or the guy that voted for him?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,054
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    What took me by surprise is what a difference it makes when you get shorter. All of a sudden it seems, shelves etc are higher than they used to be.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    But you forget. Starmer has now set up a super tough “border control task force” which will sort everything

    I’m beginning to conclude Starmer is

    1 actually quite stupid and

    2 he therefore really believes crap like this. He’s a Woke apparatchik. He thinks everything can be solved by more bureaucracy
    To paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi, who is more stupid, the stupid guy or the guy that voted for him?
    A man is allowed to dream, even if it becomes a nightmare

    Old Cornish saying
  • MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    RIght now, it looks like the most useful thing we could do to stop the boats is abolish Saturdays.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days

    Not a single boat or a single person for the last five days, and it's a pattern that has been noted before (by @TimS I think?); I don't think the weather has been that bad this week.

    Something odd is going on there.
    It’s not equivalent of murder Tuesday during Covid?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,182
    My uneducated guess is that Reeves' budget will surprise on the downside and will precipitate an even worse market reaction than Truss-Kwarteng.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    edited October 11
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    Yeah I’m still quite fit and healthy so I should stop whining. I’ve got friends my age already dead or dying (to be cheerful)

    It’s just that I drift through life pretending I look “ohh about 43” (which I did well into my 50s). And then occasionally I get a reminder of reality. Like a passport photo
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    RIght now, it looks like the most useful thing we could do to stop the boats is abolish Saturdays.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days

    Not a single boat or a single person for the last five days, and it's a pattern that has been noted before (by @TimS I think?); I don't think the weather has been that bad this week.

    Something odd is going on there.
    Probably, the people detecting the boats get Saturday off.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    What took me by surprise is what a difference it makes when you get shorter. All of a sudden it seems, shelves etc are higher than they used to be.
    You get…. SHORTER?? 😶🤒
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    RIght now, it looks like the most useful thing we could do to stop the boats is abolish Saturdays.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days

    Not a single boat or a single person for the last five days, and it's a pattern that has been noted before (by @TimS I think?); I don't think the weather has been that bad this week.

    Something odd is going on there.
    It’s not equivalent of murder Tuesday during Covid?
    Good point - is it “Reporting Day” or “Day of crossing” ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    edited October 11

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    RIght now, it looks like the most useful thing we could do to stop the boats is abolish Saturdays.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days

    Not a single boat or a single person for the last five days, and it's a pattern that has been noted before (by @TimS I think?); I don't think the weather has been that bad this week.

    Something odd is going on there.
    It’s not equivalent of murder Tuesday during Covid?
    Possibly- though that was about reporting/collating lags wasn't it, which shouldn't be an issue here.

    Most plausible hypothesis I've heard is that the surveillance of the French beaches is good enough to pick off boats that leave in ones and two, but there's not enough capacity to catch twenty at once, so surges can get through. Which matches what people say about warfare, and indeed my experience of policing groups of difficult pupils.

    But why Saturday? Do the beach patrols all go for a super long boozy lunch or something?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    We haven't even had one day with 1000+ people crossing yet. We did have close to 1000 one day, but numbers are down on average, and the government aren't banging on about the issue all the time. I think its saliency will drop.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    The real issues are undercutting wages, at the low end, through illegal employment practises and the refusal of the Process State to increase infrastructure to match population.

    Few of the people coming over on boats are going into employment. They're not having much impact on wages. People working illegally are much more likely to be visa overstayers.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Fine words butter no parsnipships.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Not surprising if the population is disappointed with the Labour government. The concern would be if the population thought that Jenrick, Badenoch or Farage were in any shape or form the solution to that disappointment.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    But you forget. Starmer has now set up a super tough “border control task force” which will sort everything

    I’m beginning to conclude Starmer is

    1 actually quite stupid and

    2 he therefore really believes crap like this. He’s a Woke apparatchik. He thinks everything can be solved by more bureaucracy
    To paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi, who is more stupid, the stupid guy or the guy that voted for him?
    A man is allowed to dream, even if it becomes a nightmare

    Old Cornish saying
    You voted for this, own it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Given Rwanda was clearly designed to be a populist policy it's highly surprising that it was not actually... very popular.

    The reason is that the bulk of the British population is much woker than the right-wing loudmouths wish to believe.
    FTFY

    The reason is that the bulk of the British population is more sensible than the right-wing loudmouths wish to believe.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,270
    FF43 said:

    Not surprising if the population is disappointed with the Labour government. The concern would be if the population thought that Jenrick, Badenoch or Farage were in any shape or form the solution to that disappointment.

    Oppositions don't win elections, Governments lose them.

    On curent Labour form, the only thing that will stop either Jenrick or Badenoch winning in 4 years will be if they are no longer Leader of the Opposition. The good news for you (and as far as Jenrick is concerned for me as well) is that it seems to me extreely unlikely that whoever wins the Try leadership will still be there in 4 years
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462
    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    Nice. Next.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    The real issues are undercutting wages, at the low end, through illegal employment practises and the refusal of the Process State to increase infrastructure to match population.

    Few of the people coming over on boats are going into employment. They're not having much impact on wages. People working illegally are much more likely to be visa overstayers.
    I was talking about the real immigration issues. Not the Mail headline bollocks.

    I was impressed how many people missed the comment, during COVID, that enforcing the minimum wage and basic employment conditions would collapse the Leicester garment industry.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    The first 100 days of Labour have been total shite.

    Apart from being “not Tory” and “not Sunak”, I’m struggling to think of anything that might cause one to have a little hope again in the UK.
  • viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    Actually growing old is just another phase in life, and as you age you realise that you cannot do as you did, as in my case no more foreign travel, regular hospital visits (that I am grateful for), and even now using a stick but you are still alive when many of your peers are not and you just say a silent prayer of gratitude for all your blessings
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    The first 100 days of Labour have been total shite.

    Apart from being “not Tory” and “not Sunak”, I’m struggling to think of anything that might cause one to have a little hope again in the UK.

    Nuclear war with Russia might leave Slough an irradiated wasteland, inhabited by mutant, cannibal zombies.

    The only question is - who pays the CGT on the improvement in property values?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
    Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...

    I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.

    But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
  • AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    What took me by surprise is what a difference it makes when you get shorter. All of a sudden it seems, shelves etc are higher than they used to be.
    My wife, bless her, at 84 is much shorter and grateful she married a tall man who is still tall at 80 to reach up to the cupboards !!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,134
    "Spain imposes surprise border checks on Gibraltar

    A huge queue formed at the border as the Rock’s government reciprocated, but both sides stopped inspecting passports within four hours"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/11/spain-imposes-surprise-border-checks-on-gibraltar/
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    Labour rampers continue to cling on to the Budget, but in truth, Reeves has little option but to raise taxes *somewhere*, and the subsequent squealing is hardly going to restore Labour popularity.

    In any case, the job of the Budget is not to make the government popular.

    Starmer has simply failed to push out a vision.
    That’s what Britain sorely lacks.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    The real issues are undercutting wages, at the low end, through illegal employment practises and the refusal of the Process State to increase infrastructure to match population.

    Few of the people coming over on boats are going into employment. They're not having much impact on wages. People working illegally are much more likely to be visa overstayers.
    They are just bleeding the country dry, contributing ZERO and costing a fortune. At least the Tories pretended they would do something,
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    edited October 11

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
    Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...

    I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.

    But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
    I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.

    But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462
    edited October 11

    The first 100 days of Labour have been total shite.

    Apart from being “not Tory” and “not Sunak”, I’m struggling to think of anything that might cause one to have a little hope again in the UK.

    A good deal of the 'First 100 days' were either during the recess or conference season. So there really isn't much to go on but a phoney war full of trivial froth about frocks and Taylor Swift. Waiting for the budget, would seem reasonable.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,788

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Parsnipism: the economic system based on the parsnip as unit of exchange and production. As explicated by Baldrick, N in his seminal work "My Little Friend Parsnip". Was briefly the state religion of Bulgaria.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,054
    Leon said:

    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    What took me by surprise is what a difference it makes when you get shorter. All of a sudden it seems, shelves etc are higher than they used to be.
    You get…. SHORTER?? 😶🤒
    Sadly, yes. Compare photos of Queen Elizabeth II when she was young, then aged.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,270

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    We haven't even had one day with 1000+ people crossing yet. We did have close to 1000 one day, but numbers are down on average, and the government aren't banging on about the issue all the time. I think its saliency will drop.
    It will drop naturally from this point forward because of us getting into the stormy season. Labour will hope that they will be able to effectively use the breathing space to change the narrative - either through some effectove action to stop the crossings or through changing people's perceptions of the crossing. They have about 6 months to do this.

    If I were advising them I would suggest a number of things.

    1. Have an effective asylum system in place in France. Properly manned and located at the actual ports rather than in Paris. STart showingsome asylum seekers being granted asylum and let into the country doing it properly rather than risking the crossing.

    2. Reverse May's idiotic decision to include students in the net migration figures.

    3. Spend some serious time and money explaining how immigration is necessary and helps the country rather than pandering to the Reform/Tory vote. Change the narrative on immigration whilst exhibting proper control over the numbers (note this is very different to necessariy reducing net migration). Make it clear that those entering the country legally are doing it at the Country's invitation because we want them rather than making it seem like it is something over which we have no control.

    4. Do to the people smugglers what they did to the rioters. Heavy and hard. And advertise that fact just as they did with the rioters. Gross negligent manslaughter carries a maximum of life imprisonment so anyone driving a boat where people die is charged with that.
  • Labour rampers continue to cling on to the Budget, but in truth, Reeves has little option but to raise taxes *somewhere*, and the subsequent squealing is hardly going to restore Labour popularity.

    In any case, the job of the Budget is not to make the government popular.

    Starmer has simply failed to push out a vision.
    That’s what Britain sorely lacks.

    Yes, it feels that we are not so much travelling in a particular direction towards a clearly defined destination, as wandering around aimlessly in the wilderness...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    Yeah I’m still quite fit and healthy so I should stop whining. I’ve got friends my age already dead or dying (to be cheerful)

    It’s just that I drift through life pretending I look “ohh about 43” (which I did well into my 50s). And then occasionally I get a reminder of reality. Like a passport photo
    Your ears will start to get bigger once you're past 70. Don't know how you feel about that.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
    Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...

    I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.

    But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
    I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.

    But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
    Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
    Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...

    I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.

    But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
    I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.

    But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
    Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
    Was that the same as torpedo gate?

    On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.

    No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    edited October 11
    AnneJGP said:

    Leon said:

    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    What took me by surprise is what a difference it makes when you get shorter. All of a sudden it seems, shelves etc are higher than they used to be.
    You get…. SHORTER?? 😶🤒
    Sadly, yes. Compare photos of Queen Elizabeth II when she was young, then aged.
    Oh god

    What really freaks me is that the nubile and beautiful young women I tupped in my youth (and there were a few) are now…. Pensioners

    Somehow that seems inconceivable
  • AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    What took me by surprise is what a difference it makes when you get shorter. All of a sudden it seems, shelves etc are higher than they used to be.
    My wife, bless her, at 84 is much shorter and grateful she married a tall man who is still tall at 80 to reach up to the cupboards !!
    I use a set of steps
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462
    edited October 11

    Labour rampers continue to cling on to the Budget, but in truth, Reeves has little option but to raise taxes *somewhere*, and the subsequent squealing is hardly going to restore Labour popularity.

    In any case, the job of the Budget is not to make the government popular.

    Starmer has simply failed to push out a vision.
    That’s what Britain sorely lacks.

    I don't know if that post is aimed at me? I'm not a Labour 'ramper'* merely someone who thinks some balance is required after a summer of silly froth and nonsense. I agree that the vision is lacking, and that Sir Keir needs to find clear and space for that vision – and to convey it to the nation.


    *although preferable to being referred to as 'chief moron'.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    Yeah I’m still quite fit and healthy so I should stop whining. I’ve got friends my age already dead or dying (to be cheerful)

    It’s just that I drift through life pretending I look “ohh about 43” (which I did well into my 50s). And then occasionally I get a reminder of reality. Like a passport photo
    Your ears will start to get bigger once you're past 70. Don't know how you feel about that.
    Isn’t that an optical illusion because it’s actually your head shrinking and the ears stay the same?

    Still not exactly wonderful
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
    Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...

    I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.

    But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
    I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.

    But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
    Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
    Was that the same as torpedo gate?

    On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.

    No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
    No, Torpedogate was a veritable flesh wound compared with RAFgate... one speaks only of the latter in hushed tones. It is simply not suitable for a family forum.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    The first 100 days of Labour have been total shite.

    Apart from being “not Tory” and “not Sunak”, I’m struggling to think of anything that might cause one to have a little hope again in the UK.

    A good deal of the 'First 100 days' were either during the recess or conference season. So there really isn't much to go on but a phoney war full of trivial froth about frocks and Taylor Swift. Waiting for the budget, would seem reasonable.
    The first hundred days after an early May election would take you more than a week into August, but that wouldn't have stopped a government with a decent strategy and media operation from communicating a clear sense of what they were about and that they were getting stuck in.

    The listlessness and drift of the new government is really noticeable.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,185
    It’s not terribly surprising that Labour have had a shocking start in office. They basically coasted to a sizeable victory on the basis of not being the other side and revealing nothing that would frighten the horses. Sunak was pretty much correct to suggest that they didn’t have a plan as the evidence of the last couple of months is not suggestive of a political operation that knows what it wants to do with power beyond holding it. Unless they can craft a narrative on the fly they could find themselves with continued problems.

    Labour’s one salvation is that as grim as they are proving there’s nothing better lurking about. The Tories seem determined to select a leader that makes Liz Truss and IDS look like inspirational casting. The Lib Dem’s seem content to treat politics like it’s mid-80s weekend light entertainment. Reform are unlikely to shake the feeling that they are slightly sinister and none of the rest are going to trouble the credibility scorers. It’s almost too depressing for words.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462
    ....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,583

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    But you forget. Starmer has now set up a super tough “border control task force” which will sort everything

    I’m beginning to conclude Starmer is

    1 actually quite stupid and

    2 he therefore really believes crap like this. He’s a Woke apparatchik. He thinks everything can be solved by more bureaucracy
    To paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi, who is more stupid, the stupid guy or the guy that voted for him?
    A man is allowed to dream, even if it becomes a nightmare

    Old Cornish saying
    You voted for this, own it.
    That doesn't make sense. Making a decision doesn't compel you to stick pretend-cheerfully to it despite everything (though often it is human nature to do so). If you decide to go to a pub, and it turns out to be shit (because it has karaoke on, for example, or because all the decent beer is off), you don't have to pretend it's turned out brilliantly. It's entirely reasonable to say 'actually I wish I'd chosen somewhere else'.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255

    Labour rampers continue to cling on to the Budget, but in truth, Reeves has little option but to raise taxes *somewhere*, and the subsequent squealing is hardly going to restore Labour popularity.

    In any case, the job of the Budget is not to make the government popular.

    Starmer has simply failed to push out a vision.
    That’s what Britain sorely lacks.

    I don't know if that post is aimed at me? I'm not a Labour 'ramper'* merely someone who thinks some balance is required after a summer of silly froth and nonsense. I agree that the vision is lacking, and that Sir Keir needs to find clear and space for that vision – and to convey it to the nation.


    *although preferable to be referred to as 'chief moron'.
    I think you’ve been slightly in denial, referencing Labour’s majority etc.

    Keir ought to be shitting himself. It’s not at all difficult to imagine a mid-term defenestration in favour of a lean and hungry Wes Streeting.
  • kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    Yeah I’m still quite fit and healthy so I should stop whining. I’ve got friends my age already dead or dying (to be cheerful)

    It’s just that I drift through life pretending I look “ohh about 43” (which I did well into my 50s). And then occasionally I get a reminder of reality. Like a passport photo
    Your ears will start to get bigger once you're past 70. Don't know how you feel about that.
    There's a Little Red Riding Hood reply to that one, but this is the wrong forum.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    But you forget. Starmer has now set up a super tough “border control task force” which will sort everything

    I’m beginning to conclude Starmer is

    1 actually quite stupid and

    2 he therefore really believes crap like this. He’s a Woke apparatchik. He thinks everything can be solved by more bureaucracy
    To paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi, who is more stupid, the stupid guy or the guy that voted for him?
    A man is allowed to dream, even if it becomes a nightmare

    Old Cornish saying
    You voted for this, own it.
    Leon thought all those union flags with Starmer and the steely haircut spelt Far Right Strongman.

    Done up like a kipper, basically.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    Leon said:

    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    What took me by surprise is what a difference it makes when you get shorter. All of a sudden it seems, shelves etc are higher than they used to be.
    You get…. SHORTER?? 😶🤒
    As one gets older one’s spine shrinks and bows. Especially noticeable in women, eg dowagers hump.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    edited October 11
    By the way, I know it’s fashionable to scorn Badenoch’s prospects, and I would be the first to agree that she hasnt the temperament, judgment, or work ethic to be a good leader —- but the truth is she is exceedingly good copy.

    I would be very worried if I was Starmer (dull), Davey (duller), or Farage (stale).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,583

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Given Rwanda was clearly designed to be a populist policy it's highly surprising that it was not actually... very popular.

    The reason is that the bulk of the British population is much woker than the right-wing loudmouths wish to believe.
    FTFY

    The reason is that the bulk of the British population is more sensible than the right-wing loudmouths wish to believe.
    The British want to stop illegal immigration, but without any unpleasantness. It's going to take a couple of rounds of trying this before it's concluded that it can't be done pleasantly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509

    Labour rampers continue to cling on to the Budget, but in truth, Reeves has little option but to raise taxes *somewhere*, and the subsequent squealing is hardly going to restore Labour popularity.

    In any case, the job of the Budget is not to make the government popular.

    Starmer has simply failed to push out a vision.
    That’s what Britain sorely lacks.

    The job of the budget is to demonstrate they have some semblance of a coherent plan.
    I couldn't give a flying one whether it's popular or not. Or whether they have 'visions'.

    (And I would not class myself as a ramper*, or even ex-ramper.)

    *Autocorrect preferred rapper. Not that, either.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    edited October 11
    Leon said:

    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    What took me by surprise is what a difference it makes when you get shorter. All of a sudden it seems, shelves etc are higher than they used to be.
    You get…. SHORTER?? 😶🤒
    Not that; your spine collapses.

    Well, possibly that, too.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,583
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    Yeah I’m still quite fit and healthy so I should stop whining. I’ve got friends my age already dead or dying (to be cheerful)

    It’s just that I drift through life pretending I look “ohh about 43” (which I did well into my 50s). And then occasionally I get a reminder of reality. Like a passport photo
    Your ears will start to get bigger once you're past 70. Don't know how you feel about that.
    Isn’t that an optical illusion because it’s actually your head shrinking and the ears stay the same?

    Still not exactly wonderful
    No, your thinking of teeth - which stay the same size but your gums recede. Ears definitely get better. I suppose it compensates for encroaching deafness.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,185

    By the way, I know it’s fashionable to scorn Badenoch’s prospects, and I would be the first to agree that she hasnt the temperament, judgment, or work ethic to be a good leader —- but the truth is she is exceedingly good copy.

    I would be very worried if I was Starmer (dull), Davey (duller), or Farage (stale).

    She will create waves in the same way a drowning man will and to the same effect.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    Yeah I’m still quite fit and healthy so I should stop whining. I’ve got friends my age already dead or dying (to be cheerful)

    It’s just that I drift through life pretending I look “ohh about 43” (which I did well into my 50s). And then occasionally I get a reminder of reality. Like a passport photo
    Your ears will start to get bigger once you're past 70. Don't know how you feel about that.
    Isn’t that an optical illusion because it’s actually your head shrinking and the ears stay the same?

    Still not exactly wonderful
    I think it's a bit of both. I've seen old men with enormous ears and their head still looks well within the overton window.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    The real issues are undercutting wages, at the low end, through illegal employment practises and the refusal of the Process State to increase infrastructure to match population.

    Few of the people coming over on boats are going into employment. They're not having much impact on wages. People working illegally are much more likely to be visa overstayers.
    They’re not getting the chance. They’re not being processed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited October 11

    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    What took me by surprise is what a difference it makes when you get shorter. All of a sudden it seems, shelves etc are higher than they used to be.
    My wife, bless her, at 84 is much shorter and grateful she married a tall man who is still tall at 80 to reach up to the cupboards !!
    I use a set of steps
    I recommend a kickstool as an intermediate solution (at least before the steps become necessary).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
    Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...

    I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.

    But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
    I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.

    But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
    Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
    Is that the right-wing media doing things like crediting Taranto to the RAF?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    Yeah I’m still quite fit and healthy so I should stop whining. I’ve got friends my age already dead or dying (to be cheerful)

    It’s just that I drift through life pretending I look “ohh about 43” (which I did well into my 50s). And then occasionally I get a reminder of reality. Like a passport photo
    Your ears will start to get bigger once you're past 70. Don't know how you feel about that.
    There's a Little Red Riding Hood reply to that one, but this is the wrong forum.
    Yes. Let's not have the thread wandering off.
  • Carnyx said:

    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    What took me by surprise is what a difference it makes when you get shorter. All of a sudden it seems, shelves etc are higher than they used to be.
    My wife, bless her, at 84 is much shorter and grateful she married a tall man who is still tall at 80 to reach up to the cupboards !!
    I use a set of steps
    I recommend a kickstool as an intermediate solution (at least before the steps become necessary).
    Good choice, but too heavy and bulky, and can't be folded to put it out of the way
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,788
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    Yeah I’m still quite fit and healthy so I should stop whining. I’ve got friends my age already dead or dying (to be cheerful)

    It’s just that I drift through life pretending I look “ohh about 43” (which I did well into my 50s). And then occasionally I get a reminder of reality. Like a passport photo
    This YouTube details why common facial techniques (fillers, Botox, thread lifts, partial lifts) don't work once you go past 50 since the 50-plus problems are caused by muscle weakness and collagen-poor skin sagging, which those techniques don't address or have bad failure rates

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUWJR72eIPI

    Ones that still work for men your age would be hair transplants, skin resurfacing, upper and lower blepharoplasties and full deep-plane facelifts that address the face and neck. You will also want to consider liposuction around the waist. If you do Ozempic pair it with exercise to minimise skin sagging: what you have doesn't snap back any more. Stop taking drugs (I know, I know, but you aren't 17 any more). Get your pancreas checked: if you develop diabetes you won't heal any more and that really messes you up.

    Swimming weekly is always good advice.

    You have the money and time and health to do these things and you will be grateful for it at 70.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    Yeah I’m still quite fit and healthy so I should stop whining. I’ve got friends my age already dead or dying (to be cheerful)

    It’s just that I drift through life pretending I look “ohh about 43” (which I did well into my 50s). And then occasionally I get a reminder of reality. Like a passport photo
    Your ears will start to get bigger once you're past 70. Don't know how you feel about that.
    Isn’t that an optical illusion because it’s actually your head shrinking and the ears stay the same?

    Still not exactly wonderful
    No, your thinking of teeth - which stay the same size but your gums recede. Ears definitely get better. I suppose it compensates for encroaching deafness.
    No they get worse.

    They don't actually grow - it's more about the deterioration of skin, cartilage and other connective tissue. They sag.
    As does your nose.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462
    Carnyx said:

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
    Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...

    I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.

    But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
    I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.

    But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
    Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
    Is that the right-wing media doing things like crediting Taranto to the RAF?
    You will have to ask Big G ... he knows all about RAFgate. Oh my.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Christ I hate getting old

    Just wait until organs stop working. No, not that one, the important ones. No, the important important ones. Oh, never mind... :)
    Yeah I’m still quite fit and healthy so I should stop whining. I’ve got friends my age already dead or dying (to be cheerful)

    It’s just that I drift through life pretending I look “ohh about 43” (which I did well into my 50s). And then occasionally I get a reminder of reality. Like a passport photo
    Your ears will start to get bigger once you're past 70. Don't know how you feel about that.
    There's a Little Red Riding Hood reply to that one, but this is the wrong forum.
    Yes. Let's not have the thread wandering off.
    Leon started it (as usual)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462
    Is there going to be a TV debate between Kemi and JENRICK?

    Might be entertaining.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462

    Labour rampers continue to cling on to the Budget, but in truth, Reeves has little option but to raise taxes *somewhere*, and the subsequent squealing is hardly going to restore Labour popularity.

    In any case, the job of the Budget is not to make the government popular.

    Starmer has simply failed to push out a vision.
    That’s what Britain sorely lacks.

    I don't know if that post is aimed at me? I'm not a Labour 'ramper'* merely someone who thinks some balance is required after a summer of silly froth and nonsense. I agree that the vision is lacking, and that Sir Keir needs to find clear and space for that vision – and to convey it to the nation.


    *although preferable to be referred to as 'chief moron'.
    I think you’ve been slightly in denial, referencing Labour’s majority etc.

    Keir ought to be shitting himself. It’s not at all difficult to imagine a mid-term defenestration in favour of a lean and hungry Wes Streeting.
    I'd be delighted to have Wes in charge. But he has a problem – a tiny majority in Ilford because he was not allowed to campaign in the seat. Not sure how he gets around that.
  • felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
    Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...

    I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.

    But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
    I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.

    But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
    Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
    Was that the same as torpedo gate?

    On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.

    No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
    Special driver for the late Wyn Roberts at elections, especially the Falklands one when we had many questions about the sinking of the Belgrano, and finally for David Jones in 2010 when in our campaign car Brown's 'bigotgate' came over live

    How we laughed
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,185

    Is there going to be a TV debate between Kemi and JENRICK?

    Might be entertaining.

    As entertaining as root canal without anaesthetic.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462
    edited October 11

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
    Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...

    I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.

    But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
    I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.

    But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
    Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
    Was that the same as torpedo gate?

    On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.

    No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
    Special driver for the late Wyn Roberts at elections, especially the Falklands one when we had many questions about the sinking of the Belgrano, and finally for David Jones in 2010 when in our campaign car Brown's 'bigotgate' came over live

    How we laughed
    Brown was right about Mrs Duffy –– she was/is a bigot. He should have stuck to his guns!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Yup, and as more people arrive and we get more days of 1000+ illegals and videos and Nige signal boosting it across the country that number will only get less favourable for Labour. Ending the Rwanda plan was only acceptable if another replacement policy was ready to replace it "smashing the people smuggler gangs" is just a laughable slogan yet that's what replaced Rwanda as both a deterrent and removals policy.
    But you forget. Starmer has now set up a super tough “border control task force” which will sort everything

    I’m beginning to conclude Starmer is

    1 actually quite stupid and

    2 he therefore really believes crap like this. He’s a Woke apparatchik. He thinks everything can be solved by more bureaucracy
    To paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi, who is more stupid, the stupid guy or the guy that voted for him?
    A man is allowed to dream, even if it becomes a nightmare

    Old Cornish saying
    You voted for this, own it.
    That doesn't make sense. Making a decision doesn't compel you to stick pretend-cheerfully to it despite everything (though often it is human nature to do so). If you decide to go to a pub, and it turns out to be shit (because it has karaoke on, for example, or because all the decent beer is off), you don't have to pretend it's turned out brilliantly. It's entirely reasonable to say 'actually I wish I'd chosen somewhere else'.
    But going from voting Labour to viewing them as Satan's representatives on earth in the space of a few weeks is not rationally explicable.

    One side of the equation or the other is wrong. Either he didn't vote Labour or the anger and derision is mainly for show

    I think I know which. But it doesn't really matter so I'll leave it there. We don't want a loose meandering thread.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069

    Labour rampers continue to cling on to the Budget, but in truth, Reeves has little option but to raise taxes *somewhere*, and the subsequent squealing is hardly going to restore Labour popularity.

    In any case, the job of the Budget is not to make the government popular.

    Starmer has simply failed to push out a vision.
    That’s what Britain sorely lacks.

    I don't know if that post is aimed at me? I'm not a Labour 'ramper'* merely someone who thinks some balance is required after a summer of silly froth and nonsense. I agree that the vision is lacking, and that Sir Keir needs to find clear and space for that vision – and to convey it to the nation.


    *although preferable to be referred to as 'chief moron'.
    I think you’ve been slightly in denial, referencing Labour’s majority etc.

    Keir ought to be shitting himself. It’s not at all difficult to imagine a mid-term defenestration in favour of a lean and hungry Wes Streeting.
    I'd be delighted to have Wes in charge. But he has a problem – a tiny majority in Ilford because he was not allowed to campaign in the seat. Not sure how he gets around that.
    Bigger problem is that he floats or sinks with Starmer.

    If the NHS experience improves for Mr and Mrs Voter, I suspect Starmer will be forgiven a lot and he can stay in Number Ten as long as he likes.

    If it doesn't, Streeting will be in as much trouble as his boss.

    I wonder who they go for if Starmer does do an involuntary Biden in 2028 or so?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Given Rwanda was clearly designed to be a populist policy it's highly surprising that it was not actually... very popular.

    The reason is that the bulk of the British population is much woker than the right-wing loudmouths wish to believe.
    FTFY

    The reason is that the bulk of the British population is more sensible than the right-wing loudmouths wish to believe.
    The British want to stop illegal immigration, but without any unpleasantness. It's going to take a couple of rounds of trying this before it's concluded that it can't be done pleasantly.
    *visibly* unpleasant.

    It’s not for nothing that they used to say “The sun never sets on the British Empire. Because God is worried what they might do in the dark”.

    Anyone got the phone number for the Libyan Coastguard?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Rwanda is surprisingly close

    I thought the cancellation would be MORE popular. Shows the pressure on Starmer to stop the boats is still there, big time

    Given Rwanda was clearly designed to be a populist policy it's highly surprising that it was not actually... very popular.

    The reason is that the bulk of the British population is much woker than the right-wing loudmouths wish to believe.
    FTFY

    The reason is that the bulk of the British population is more sensible than the right-wing loudmouths wish to believe.
    The British want to stop illegal immigration, but without any unpleasantness. It's going to take a couple of rounds of trying this before it's concluded that it can't be done pleasantly.
    Sweden is perfect example
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited October 11

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
    Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...

    I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.

    But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
    I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.

    But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
    Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
    Was that the same as torpedo gate?

    On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.

    No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
    No, Torpedogate was a veritable flesh wound compared with RAFgate... one speaks only of the latter in hushed tones. It is simply not suitable for a family forum.
    I always think it shows a weakness when a poster apologises for an error but then some still seem to delight in ignoring it

    I corrected my mistake about taking down the ballistic missiles and replicated the Ministry of Defence statement tha RAF planes were involved in the action that night

    Pity we are not all perfect but can correct our errors

    In over 62,000 posts I have erred on occasions but try to convey accurate information often accompanied by quotes from Sky, Guardian, Independent and others
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    Please, please, Reeves get it slightly right!

    The picture is all too clear. Labour spin out of control, with Starmer's reaction time of 48 hours being a major factor. He can't help it if his brain works like the Royal Mail. Comedy all round.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    Nice. Next.
    Better than being the assistant moron.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Is there going to be a TV debate between Kemi and JENRICK?

    Might be entertaining.

    I agree, could get a bit tasty.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    Tesla's robot walks like Joe Biden....
    https://x.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1844780441292754994
  • felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.

    It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)

    Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.

    (*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
    Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
    Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...

    I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.

    But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
    I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.

    But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
    Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
    Was that the same as torpedo gate?

    On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.

    No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
    Special driver for the late Wyn Roberts at elections, especially the Falklands one when we had many questions about the sinking of the Belgrano, and finally for David Jones in 2010 when in our campaign car Brown's 'bigotgate' came over live

    How we laughed
    Brown was right about Mrs Duffy –– she was/is a bigot. He should have stuck to his guns!
    Insulting the working class live on TV is OK then
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Labour rampers continue to cling on to the Budget, but in truth, Reeves has little option but to raise taxes *somewhere*, and the subsequent squealing is hardly going to restore Labour popularity.

    In any case, the job of the Budget is not to make the government popular.

    Starmer has simply failed to push out a vision.
    That’s what Britain sorely lacks.

    I voted labour, I feel a little let down. I absolutely believed the ‘ready for govt’ line they span. In reality it was on a par with the ‘oven ready deal’ lone.

    I’m hoping the budget steadies the ship but it is misstep after misstep.

    They still have time to turn it around.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462

    felix said:

    Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.

    Nice. Next.
    Better than being the assistant moron.
    :D Fair point. I shall take solace in that small mercy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Omnium said:

    Please, please, Reeves get it slightly right!

    The picture is all too clear. Labour spin out of control, with Starmer's reaction time of 48 hours being a major factor. He can't help it if his brain works like the Royal Mail. Comedy all round.

    The landing strip for 'getting it right' is so narrow as to be virtually non-extistent. What Reeves needs to do basically is do hardly anything, but do it so well it gives people the feel good factor and increases business confidence.
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