"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
A more interesting and provocative list would be “telltale signs you are more posh than you think” targeted at those people who insist they’re salt of the earth working class and in touch with the views of the masses, despite their very evident middle classness.
- Sourdough - Microsoft teams - Floorboards - Flat whites - Cycling - Amazon prime - Wagamama - Kitchen extensions - Monzo - Rightmove & Zoopla - Greek Yoghurt - Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
It's shocking that most people didn't feel able to report anything while he was alive.
This is very common.
He'd have had lots of people in authority and influence coming out to bat for him on the airwaves, and his lawyers and money would have descended in seconds to silence anyone who spoke.
There are lots of examples of people in power where strong rumours abound but going public and changing the public narrative around them is extremely high risk.
From what I understand, add hired thugs to lawyers and money.
ETA: wasn't his chief of security at Harrods ex-police and with lots of contacts and influence still in the police?
Sadly, I can believe it.
This was clearly known up on high - the fugger was repeatedly refused a passport, and rightly so - but that still doesn't mean anyone would have come out to bat for any woman who'd dared to speak out at the time.
Private Eye got this one right. They have been publishing on his sexual harassment for decades.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I wear tie clips most days, not as jewelry but rather for practicality as I do not want my tie and ID lanyard falling on patients when I am examining them.
How do you manage to do that given you spend virtually all your time on here?
Is your other hand clutching your iPhone as you type out yet another post using autocorrect, making irregular and slightly rushed eye contact with your patient in the process?
Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.
It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.
It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)
Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.
(*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...
I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.
But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.
But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
Was that the same as torpedo gate?
On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.
No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
No, Torpedogate was a veritable flesh wound compared with RAFgate... one speaks only of the latter in hushed tones. It is simply not suitable for a family forum.
I always think it shows a weakness when a poster apologises for an error but then some still seem to delight in ignoring it
I corrected my mistake about taking down the ballistic missiles and replicated the Ministry of Defence statement tha RAF planes were involved in the action that night
Pity we are not all perfect but can correct our errors
In over 62,000 posts I have erred on occasions but try to convey accurate information often accompanied by quotes from Sky, Guardian, Independent and others
This is a Conservative blog and you are quite rightly all piling into the Commies.
BigG. you have been like a terrier in calling out the most egregious corruption of the last decade. Currygate, Goonergate, Glassesgate, Victoria'ssecretgate, RAFgate, Angie'shousegate and Torpedogate, to name but a few.
Anabob you are not playing nicely on BigG's gates. "Go, walk out the door,...you're not welcome anymore". It's all going a bit Correct Horse Battery with everyone piling in on you, I thought Felix was particularly vicious.
@Anabobazina they have tumbled your game and you need a really flamboyant flounce to go out in style! My anti- PBTory flounce a fortnight ago was a bit shite so I can't offer up any advice
I’ll survive! (What in the holy name of Aphrodite is Victoriassecretgate?)
A lot of commentators here have taken a particularly keen interest in the first lady's underwear.
It caused one overwrought poster (I won't name and shame) to type the word "panties".
A moment of deep cringe that took a while to dissipate.
“First Lady” is rather the mal mot here.
As for Lady Starmer’s panties, it could become a PB stock-in-phrase, if we try hard enough. A colourful variation to Sir Keir’s curry.
Mods!
"pant**s"
Ok, I remarked on this at the time but I'll ask again. What is wrong with the word "panties"? Is this some cultural taboo I am unaware of? Does this apply to other elements of womens underwear? Is "bra" still OK? Am genuinely puzzled.
You just shouldn't say it esp if you're a man of a certain age.
Bra is absolutely fine.
"Panties" is afaik an Americanism. They are forced to use it because they misuse "pants".
Therefore it's use is to be deprecated, and scorned.
The correct word is a choice of knickers, undies or pants.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I wear tie clips most days, not as jewelry but rather for practicality as I do not want my tie and ID lanyard falling on patients when I am examining them.
How do you manage to do that given you spend virtually all your time on here?
Is your other hand clutching your iPhone as you type out yet another post using autocorrect, making irregular and slightly rushed eye contact with your patient in the process?
I work irregular hours but not usually at 0730 on a Saturday.
Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.
It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.
It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)
Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.
(*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...
I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.
But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.
But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
Was that the same as torpedo gate?
On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.
No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
No, Torpedogate was a veritable flesh wound compared with RAFgate... one speaks only of the latter in hushed tones. It is simply not suitable for a family forum.
I always think it shows a weakness when a poster apologises for an error but then some still seem to delight in ignoring it
I corrected my mistake about taking down the ballistic missiles and replicated the Ministry of Defence statement tha RAF planes were involved in the action that night
Pity we are not all perfect but can correct our errors
In over 62,000 posts I have erred on occasions but try to convey accurate information often accompanied by quotes from Sky, Guardian, Independent and others
This is a Conservative blog and you are quite rightly all piling into the Commies.
BigG. you have been like a terrier in calling out the most egregious corruption of the last decade. Currygate, Goonergate, Glassesgate, Victoria'ssecretgate, RAFgate, Angie'shousegate and Torpedogate, to name but a few.
Anabob you are not playing nicely on BigG's gates. "Go, walk out the door,...you're not welcome anymore". It's all going a bit Correct Horse Battery with everyone piling in on you, I thought Felix was particularly vicious.
@Anabobazina they have tumbled your game and you need a really flamboyant flounce to go out in style! My anti- PBTory flounce a fortnight ago was a bit shite so I can't offer up any advice
I’ll survive! (What in the holy name of Aphrodite is Victoriassecretgate?)
A lot of commentators here have taken a particularly keen interest in the first lady's underwear.
It caused one overwrought poster (I won't name and shame) to type the word "panties".
A moment of deep cringe that took a while to dissipate.
“First Lady” is rather the mal mot here.
As for Lady Starmer’s panties, it could become a PB stock-in-phrase, if we try hard enough. A colourful variation to Sir Keir’s curry.
Mods!
"pant**s"
Ok, I remarked on this at the time but I'll ask again. What is wrong with the word "panties"? Is this some cultural taboo I am unaware of? Does this apply to other elements of womens underwear? Is "bra" still OK? Am genuinely puzzled.
You just shouldn't say it esp if you're a man of a certain age.
Bra is absolutely fine.
"Panties" is afaik an Americanism. They are forced to use it because they misuse "pants".
Therefore it's use is to be deprecated, and scorned.
The correct word is a choice of knickers, undies or pants.
Now you know.
Every day is a school day on PB but personally I, not being an American who confuses pants with trousers, simply use pants.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I wear tie clips most days, not as jewelry but rather for practicality as I do not want my tie and ID lanyard falling on patients when I am examining them.
How do you manage to do that given you spend virtually all your time on here?
Is your other hand clutching your iPhone as you type out yet another post using autocorrect, making irregular and slightly rushed eye contact with your patient in the process?
I work irregular hours but not usually at 0730 on a Saturday.
So, between 2.34am and 4.10am on a Thursday morning, then?
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I wear tie clips most days, not as jewelry but rather for practicality as I do not want my tie and ID lanyard falling on patients when I am examining them.
How do you manage to do that given you spend virtually all your time on here?
Is your other hand clutching your iPhone as you type out yet another post using autocorrect, making irregular and slightly rushed eye contact with your patient in the process?
I work irregular hours but not usually at 0730 on a Saturday.
Surely wearing a tie, let alone a tie clip, makes you common these days.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I wear tie clips most days, not as jewelry but rather for practicality as I do not want my tie and ID lanyard falling on patients when I am examining them.
How do you manage to do that given you spend virtually all your time on here?
Is your other hand clutching your iPhone as you type out yet another post using autocorrect, making irregular and slightly rushed eye contact with your patient in the process?
I work irregular hours but not usually at 0730 on a Saturday.
Surely wearing a tie, let alone a tie clip, makes you common these days.
I have no idea, as I do not care much for British social class signifiers.
It's more that suits don't look right without a tie, and I like to dress well. Most British men care little for clothes and dress badly. Women notice, as they generally care to look presentable.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I wear tie clips most days, not as jewelry but rather for practicality as I do not want my tie and ID lanyard falling on patients when I am examining them.
How do you manage to do that given you spend virtually all your time on here?
Is your other hand clutching your iPhone as you type out yet another post using autocorrect, making irregular and slightly rushed eye contact with your patient in the process?
I work irregular hours but not usually at 0730 on a Saturday.
Surely wearing a tie, let alone a tie clip, makes you common these days.
Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.
It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.
It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)
Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.
(*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...
I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.
But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.
But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
Was that the same as torpedo gate?
On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.
No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
No, Torpedogate was a veritable flesh wound compared with RAFgate... one speaks only of the latter in hushed tones. It is simply not suitable for a family forum.
I always think it shows a weakness when a poster apologises for an error but then some still seem to delight in ignoring it
I corrected my mistake about taking down the ballistic missiles and replicated the Ministry of Defence statement tha RAF planes were involved in the action that night
Pity we are not all perfect but can correct our errors
In over 62,000 posts I have erred on occasions but try to convey accurate information often accompanied by quotes from Sky, Guardian, Independent and others
This is a Conservative blog and you are quite rightly all piling into the Commies.
BigG. you have been like a terrier in calling out the most egregious corruption of the last decade. Currygate, Goonergate, Glassesgate, Victoria'ssecretgate, RAFgate, Angie'shousegate and Torpedogate, to name but a few.
Anabob you are not playing nicely on BigG's gates. "Go, walk out the door,...you're not welcome anymore". It's all going a bit Correct Horse Battery with everyone piling in on you, I thought Felix was particularly vicious.
@Anabobazina they have tumbled your game and you need a really flamboyant flounce to go out in style! My anti- PBTory flounce a fortnight ago was a bit shite so I can't offer up any advice
I’ll survive! (What in the holy name of Aphrodite is Victoriassecretgate?)
A lot of commentators here have taken a particularly keen interest in the first lady's underwear.
It caused one overwrought poster (I won't name and shame) to type the word "panties".
A moment of deep cringe that took a while to dissipate.
“First Lady” is rather the mal mot here.
As for Lady Starmer’s panties, it could become a PB stock-in-phrase, if we try hard enough. A colourful variation to Sir Keir’s curry.
Mods!
"pant**s"
Ok, I remarked on this at the time but I'll ask again. What is wrong with the word "panties"? Is this some cultural taboo I am unaware of? Does this apply to other elements of womens underwear? Is "bra" still OK? Am genuinely puzzled.
You just shouldn't say it esp if you're a man of a certain age.
Bra is absolutely fine.
"Panties" is afaik an Americanism. They are forced to use it because they misuse "pants".
Therefore it's use is to be deprecated, and scorned.
The correct word is a choice of knickers, undies or pants.
Now you know.
Knickers for girls, pants for boys no? Or that's how it was growing up.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I wear tie clips most days, not as jewelry but rather for practicality as I do not want my tie and ID lanyard falling on patients when I am examining them.
How do you manage to do that given you spend virtually all your time on here?
Is your other hand clutching your iPhone as you type out yet another post using autocorrect, making irregular and slightly rushed eye contact with your patient in the process?
I work irregular hours but not usually at 0730 on a Saturday.
Surely wearing a tie, let alone a tie clip, makes you common these days.
Matt Smith had it right. Bow ties are the way to go.
Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.
It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.
It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)
Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.
(*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...
I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.
But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.
But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
Was that the same as torpedo gate?
On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.
No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
No, Torpedogate was a veritable flesh wound compared with RAFgate... one speaks only of the latter in hushed tones. It is simply not suitable for a family forum.
I always think it shows a weakness when a poster apologises for an error but then some still seem to delight in ignoring it
I corrected my mistake about taking down the ballistic missiles and replicated the Ministry of Defence statement tha RAF planes were involved in the action that night
Pity we are not all perfect but can correct our errors
In over 62,000 posts I have erred on occasions but try to convey accurate information often accompanied by quotes from Sky, Guardian, Independent and others
This is a Conservative blog and you are quite rightly all piling into the Commies.
BigG. you have been like a terrier in calling out the most egregious corruption of the last decade. Currygate, Goonergate, Glassesgate, Victoria'ssecretgate, RAFgate, Angie'shousegate and Torpedogate, to name but a few.
Anabob you are not playing nicely on BigG's gates. "Go, walk out the door,...you're not welcome anymore". It's all going a bit Correct Horse Battery with everyone piling in on you, I thought Felix was particularly vicious.
@Anabobazina they have tumbled your game and you need a really flamboyant flounce to go out in style! My anti- PBTory flounce a fortnight ago was a bit shite so I can't offer up any advice
I’ll survive! (What in the holy name of Aphrodite is Victoriassecretgate?)
A lot of commentators here have taken a particularly keen interest in the first lady's underwear.
It caused one overwrought poster (I won't name and shame) to type the word "panties".
A moment of deep cringe that took a while to dissipate.
“First Lady” is rather the mal mot here.
As for Lady Starmer’s panties, it could become a PB stock-in-phrase, if we try hard enough. A colourful variation to Sir Keir’s curry.
Mods!
"pant**s"
Ok, I remarked on this at the time but I'll ask again. What is wrong with the word "panties"? Is this some cultural taboo I am unaware of? Does this apply to other elements of womens underwear? Is "bra" still OK? Am genuinely puzzled.
You just shouldn't say it esp if you're a man of a certain age.
Bra is absolutely fine.
"Panties" is afaik an Americanism. They are forced to use it because they misuse "pants".
Therefore it's use is to be deprecated, and scorned.
The correct word is a choice of knickers, undies or pants.
Now you know.
Every day is a school day on PB but personally I, not being an American who confuses pants with trousers, simply use pants.
Especially since part of your job is to lock up knickers?
Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.
It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.
It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)
Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.
(*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...
I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.
But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.
But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
Was that the same as torpedo gate?
On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.
No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
No, Torpedogate was a veritable flesh wound compared with RAFgate... one speaks only of the latter in hushed tones. It is simply not suitable for a family forum.
I always think it shows a weakness when a poster apologises for an error but then some still seem to delight in ignoring it
I corrected my mistake about taking down the ballistic missiles and replicated the Ministry of Defence statement tha RAF planes were involved in the action that night
Pity we are not all perfect but can correct our errors
In over 62,000 posts I have erred on occasions but try to convey accurate information often accompanied by quotes from Sky, Guardian, Independent and others
This is a Conservative blog and you are quite rightly all piling into the Commies.
BigG. you have been like a terrier in calling out the most egregious corruption of the last decade. Currygate, Goonergate, Glassesgate, Victoria'ssecretgate, RAFgate, Angie'shousegate and Torpedogate, to name but a few.
Anabob you are not playing nicely on BigG's gates. "Go, walk out the door,...you're not welcome anymore". It's all going a bit Correct Horse Battery with everyone piling in on you, I thought Felix was particularly vicious.
@Anabobazina they have tumbled your game and you need a really flamboyant flounce to go out in style! My anti- PBTory flounce a fortnight ago was a bit shite so I can't offer up any advice
I’ll survive! (What in the holy name of Aphrodite is Victoriassecretgate?)
A lot of commentators here have taken a particularly keen interest in the first lady's underwear.
It caused one overwrought poster (I won't name and shame) to type the word "panties".
A moment of deep cringe that took a while to dissipate.
“First Lady” is rather the mal mot here.
As for Lady Starmer’s panties, it could become a PB stock-in-phrase, if we try hard enough. A colourful variation to Sir Keir’s curry.
Mods!
"pant**s"
Ok, I remarked on this at the time but I'll ask again. What is wrong with the word "panties"? Is this some cultural taboo I am unaware of? Does this apply to other elements of womens underwear? Is "bra" still OK? Am genuinely puzzled.
You just shouldn't say it esp if you're a man of a certain age.
Bra is absolutely fine.
"Panties" is afaik an Americanism. They are forced to use it because they misuse "pants".
Therefore it's use is to be deprecated, and scorned.
The correct word is a choice of knickers, undies or pants.
Now you know.
Every day is a school day on PB but personally I, not being an American who confuses pants with trousers, simply use pants.
Not being a Usonian, I dedicate 0.00001% of my time to educating them subliminally .
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
A more interesting and provocative list would be “telltale signs you are more posh than you think” targeted at those people who insist they’re salt of the earth working class and in touch with the views of the masses, despite their very evident middle classness.
- Sourdough - Microsoft teams - Floorboards - Flat whites - Cycling - Amazon prime - Wagamama - Kitchen extensions - Monzo - Rightmove & Zoopla - Greek Yoghurt - Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
One curiosity about British class consciousness is the obsession with not wanting to appear middle class. In America it's the opposite, with politicians there keen to stress their middle class values.
As the son of a salesman and secretary, I am undeniably of middle class origin, and have never had pretension to anything else. Maybe it's my time in Australasia and America that makes a difference, but I have no British middle class cringe.
Incidentally, apart from Wagamama I don't really fit your list.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
A more interesting and provocative list would be “telltale signs you are more posh than you think” targeted at those people who insist they’re salt of the earth working class and in touch with the views of the masses, despite their very evident middle classness.
- Sourdough - Microsoft teams - Floorboards - Flat whites - Cycling - Amazon prime - Wagamama - Kitchen extensions - Monzo - Rightmove & Zoopla - Greek Yoghurt - Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
Four of those for me.
Incidentally, I once nearly got thrown out of the (then) local Waitrose, down in Romsey. They sometimes had a sommelier to give advice on wines (the only supermarket I've seen this in).
I was perusing the wines, and went to the sommelier. "I've a complaint," I said. "Oh yes?" he said, suddenly interested. I point at a bottle. "What does this say?" "It says it's a dry white, sir." "Well, darned it, I want a bottle with liquid in it, not one that's dry!"
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
I've watched him occasionally on YouTube and it is a brilliant schtick for sparking controversy and debate. He clearly doesn't take it entirely seriously himself, but gets a decent living and a certain celebrity from it- I'll bet he can hardly believe his luck as he writes another "pass the port" article for the Daily Mail. Of course, it is mostly a load of nonsense, but the man is on the brink of becoming a national treasure on the back of such ephemera. As always, though, it shows the original sin in the UK is still class prejudice not race prejudice as it is in the USA.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
A more interesting and provocative list would be “telltale signs you are more posh than you think” targeted at those people who insist they’re salt of the earth working class and in touch with the views of the masses, despite their very evident middle classness.
- Sourdough - Microsoft teams - Floorboards - Flat whites - Cycling - Amazon prime - Wagamama - Kitchen extensions - Monzo - Rightmove & Zoopla - Greek Yoghurt - Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
In that case if I'd ever heard of Monzo, I'd be Royalty.
Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.
It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.
It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)
Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.
(*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...
I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.
But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.
But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
Was that the same as torpedo gate?
On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.
No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
No, Torpedogate was a veritable flesh wound compared with RAFgate... one speaks only of the latter in hushed tones. It is simply not suitable for a family forum.
I always think it shows a weakness when a poster apologises for an error but then some still seem to delight in ignoring it
I corrected my mistake about taking down the ballistic missiles and replicated the Ministry of Defence statement tha RAF planes were involved in the action that night
Pity we are not all perfect but can correct our errors
In over 62,000 posts I have erred on occasions but try to convey accurate information often accompanied by quotes from Sky, Guardian, Independent and others
This is a Conservative blog and you are quite rightly all piling into the Commies.
BigG. you have been like a terrier in calling out the most egregious corruption of the last decade. Currygate, Goonergate, Glassesgate, Victoria'ssecretgate, RAFgate, Angie'shousegate and Torpedogate, to name but a few.
Anabob you are not playing nicely on BigG's gates. "Go, walk out the door,...you're not welcome anymore". It's all going a bit Correct Horse Battery with everyone piling in on you, I thought Felix was particularly vicious.
@Anabobazina they have tumbled your game and you need a really flamboyant flounce to go out in style! My anti- PBTory flounce a fortnight ago was a bit shite so I can't offer up any advice
I’ll survive! (What in the holy name of Aphrodite is Victoriassecretgate?)
A lot of commentators here have taken a particularly keen interest in the first lady's underwear.
It caused one overwrought poster (I won't name and shame) to type the word "panties".
A moment of deep cringe that took a while to dissipate.
“First Lady” is rather the mal mot here.
As for Lady Starmer’s panties, it could become a PB stock-in-phrase, if we try hard enough. A colourful variation to Sir Keir’s curry.
Mods!
"pant**s"
Ok, I remarked on this at the time but I'll ask again. What is wrong with the word "panties"? Is this some cultural taboo I am unaware of? Does this apply to other elements of womens underwear? Is "bra" still OK? Am genuinely puzzled.
You just shouldn't say it esp if you're a man of a certain age.
Bra is absolutely fine.
"Panties" is afaik an Americanism. They are forced to use it because they misuse "pants".
Therefore it's use is to be deprecated, and scorned.
The correct word is a choice of knickers, undies or pants.
Now you know.
Knickers for girls, pants for boys no? Or that's how it was growing up.
Pretty much, but we all have some variations, I'm sure.
In my grandma's latter years (age 80+, time period late 1980s), when mum used to do her washing, she always called Grandma's lower underwear "pants". which was a usage I had not heard before that always stuck in my memory - to me that was somewhat depersonalised. So variation, but rhetorically the basic principle is that Usonians are incorrect .*
* One linguistic battle I think I have unfortunately lost is asking for "Cafe au Lait" in coffee shops; very few of them know what it is. "White Americano" is a horrible term.
The story about the Transport Minister and 'DP world' reveals the difficulties of the Labour government in relation to business. There is an attempt on the part of Starmer to do the Mandelson/Blair era co-operation but it then gets undermined by the left wing/trade union faction who - this time around - are way off message and lurking not far below the surface.
Forget the polls PB is such fun as the apologists led by chief moron Anabobazina are now begging posters to be nice. They should really be re-reading Animal Farm. Politics is a grubby business and as all good conservatives know the troughs tempt all the piggies with remarkable speed this time.
It's funny to see posters who acted all moral at pointing out failures by the Conservative Party and its MPs, who are suddenly blind to issues now Labour is in government. Especially whilst they still decry the Conservatives.
It sorta shows that it was not morality that drove their criticisms, but naked partisanship. (*)
Fortunately, not every posted suffers from this affliction.
(*) For some odd reason, I initially wrote that as parsnipship. Which opens up some intriguing possibilities. A ship made out of a parsnip? A ship carrying nothing but parsnips? The state of being a parsnip?
Aren’t you the poster who gives a green-ish card to Johnson while continuing to castigate Keir for his curry?
Was I giving a "green-ish card" to Johnson? I don't think so...
I was certainly the poster who was castigating Johnson back as far as his time as MoL, and stating that he would not be a good PM. I also stated well before the election that Starmer would probably be better than Sunak, but would have problems because he is not a salesman.
But currygate's interesting. One of my criticisms of Johnson was that he had a habit of not learning lessons: when he makes a mistake, he's either too stupid, too stubborn or too proud to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Currygate was a mistake from the optics POV at least; and Starmer's making similar mistakes again. And again.
I think Starmer fucked up the optics here badly.
But currygate really wasn’t interesting. It was a load of bollocks served up by alt-right journalists and the ever credulous BigG
Were you here for RAFgate? That one was a proper zinger. I only learned of it the other day thanks to @TheScreamingEagles 's explanation. Wow. Just wow.
Was that the same as torpedo gate?
On one level, you have to salute BigG’s indefatigabilty.
No wonder he was selected as special driver for Windsor Davies MP in 1948!
No, Torpedogate was a veritable flesh wound compared with RAFgate... one speaks only of the latter in hushed tones. It is simply not suitable for a family forum.
I always think it shows a weakness when a poster apologises for an error but then some still seem to delight in ignoring it
I corrected my mistake about taking down the ballistic missiles and replicated the Ministry of Defence statement tha RAF planes were involved in the action that night
Pity we are not all perfect but can correct our errors
In over 62,000 posts I have erred on occasions but try to convey accurate information often accompanied by quotes from Sky, Guardian, Independent and others
This is a Conservative blog and you are quite rightly all piling into the Commies.
BigG. you have been like a terrier in calling out the most egregious corruption of the last decade. Currygate, Goonergate, Glassesgate, Victoria'ssecretgate, RAFgate, Angie'shousegate and Torpedogate, to name but a few.
Anabob you are not playing nicely on BigG's gates. "Go, walk out the door,...you're not welcome anymore". It's all going a bit Correct Horse Battery with everyone piling in on you, I thought Felix was particularly vicious.
@Anabobazina they have tumbled your game and you need a really flamboyant flounce to go out in style! My anti- PBTory flounce a fortnight ago was a bit shite so I can't offer up any advice
I’ll survive! (What in the holy name of Aphrodite is Victoriassecretgate?)
A lot of commentators here have taken a particularly keen interest in the first lady's underwear.
It caused one overwrought poster (I won't name and shame) to type the word "panties".
A moment of deep cringe that took a while to dissipate.
“First Lady” is rather the mal mot here.
As for Lady Starmer’s panties, it could become a PB stock-in-phrase, if we try hard enough. A colourful variation to Sir Keir’s curry.
Mods!
"pant**s"
Ok, I remarked on this at the time but I'll ask again. What is wrong with the word "panties"? Is this some cultural taboo I am unaware of? Does this apply to other elements of womens underwear? Is "bra" still OK? Am genuinely puzzled.
You just shouldn't say it esp if you're a man of a certain age.
Bra is absolutely fine.
"Panties" is afaik an Americanism. They are forced to use it because they misuse "pants".
Therefore it's use is to be deprecated, and scorned.
The correct word is a choice of knickers, undies or pants.
Now you know.
Every day is a school day on PB but personally I, not being an American who confuses pants with trousers, simply use pants.
Especially since part of your job is to lock up knickers?
Not nearly as big a part as dealing with those who have unlawfully unlocked them.
I was wondering if somebody who knows more about accounting than me could give some guidance on a few questions - not advice!
1) I believe all businesses whose turnover exceeds the VAT threshold have to register for VAT whether they charge it or not. Does that apply to charities?
2) If not, what current additional procedures do they have to go through for accounting and audit?
3) How long does it actually take to set up VAT registration for a medium-sized concern with a turnover of say £3-4 million?
If anybody does know the answers to those I’d be grateful.
Bloody hell. £3 to £4 m turnover! And they say teaching doesn't pay.
Not inviting Musk was a good idea. The man's a mad racist twat with a distinctly patchy record, and at the moment his business empire is in quite severe difficulty, being dragged down by the dead weight of his mismanagement of whatever he's calling Twitter this week.
Calling out P&O Ferries is also a good idea. Their behaviour was utterly disgusting, conceivably illegal and the supine behaviour of the government at the time was pathetic. They are not to be trusted and therefore should not be 'investment partners' any more than Macquarie should.
Distancing the government from calling out criminals is not a good idea. It makes Starmer look cowardly and stupid.
It's interesting, though, isn't it. I distinctly remember the outrage from all sides on here when DP World/P&O did that. ETA: 'that' being fire and rehire P&O workers so their pay and conditions could be worsened.
Is/was that outrage completely empty? Or should DP World face consequences for such a blatant transfer of power from worker to shareholder? If so, what should those consequences be? And are we in such a hole that we can't afford to uphold certain standards of who we will accept investment from?
These aren't loaded questions, I can see either side of the argument. But it does seem like we are licensing such behaviour if we claim to be outraged by DP World but do nothing.
I was wondering if somebody who knows more about accounting than me could give some guidance on a few questions - not advice!
1) I believe all businesses whose turnover exceeds the VAT threshold have to register for VAT whether they charge it or not. Does that apply to charities?
2) If not, what current additional procedures do they have to go through for accounting and audit?
3) How long does it actually take to set up VAT registration for a medium-sized concern with a turnover of say £3-4 million?
If anybody does know the answers to those I’d be grateful.
Bloody hell. £3 to £4 m turnover! And they say teaching doesn't pay.
I should be so lucky!
I'm actually asking because there are all sorts of rumours swirling about VAT on private schools and that's the average turnover of a small-ish private secondary school outside London.
It's interesting, though, isn't it. I distinctly remember the outrage from all sides on here when DP World/P&O did that.
Is/was that outrage completely empty? Or should DP World face consequences for such a blatant transfer of power from worker to shareholder? If so, what should those consequences be? And are we in such a hole that we can't afford to uphold certain standards of who we will accept investment from?
These aren't loaded questions, I can see either side of the argument. But it does seem like we are licensing such behaviour if we claim to be outraged by DP World but do nothing.
Thing is, in my entirely non-expert view it's not just about getting the money in to start with but making sure it stays here and is spent on what it's earmarked to be spent on.
Anyone who breaks a contract without warning can't be trusted to do that, so should immediately be ruled out of any government partnership.
The story about the Transport Minister and 'DP world' reveals the difficulties of the Labour government in relation to business. There is an attempt on the part of Starmer to do the Mandelson/Blair era co-operation but it then gets undermined by the left wing/trade union faction who - this time around - are way off message and lurking not far below the surface.
Is Haigh particularly left wing? I know she supported Corbyn but you can look further up the Labour hierarchy and find similar.
It's interesting, though, isn't it. I distinctly remember the outrage from all sides on here when DP World/P&O did that.
Is/was that outrage completely empty? Or should DP World face consequences for such a blatant transfer of power from worker to shareholder? If so, what should those consequences be? And are we in such a hole that we can't afford to uphold certain standards of who we will accept investment from?
These aren't loaded questions, I can see either side of the argument. But it does seem like we are licensing such behaviour if we claim to be outraged by DP World but do nothing.
Thing is, in my entirely non-expert view it's not just about getting the money in to start with but making sure it stays here and is spent on what it's earmarked to be spent on.
Anyone who breaks a contract without warning can't be trusted to do that, so should immediately be ruled out of any government partnership.
Yes I hadn't considered that aspect. On that basis it seems like an entirely sensible thing for Haigh to say.
Makes me worry (a bit more) that Starmer is leaving any principles or vision at the door of number 10.
Mr. Doethur, the fun part for the Government is that if you take your view then Starmer's wrong and the Government's divided; if you take the alternative view the minister's wrong and the Government's divided.
Mr. H, a fair point. The Government would be in better shape if it hadn't slashed ready-to-go investment while throwing money at union pay demands, stating there would be tax rises and leaving months of speculation, and *then* having the current little split over investment.
If they'd done better elsewhere this might be looked at in a more 'moral stand' kind of way. Because they've been almost uniformly poor economically this just looks like another entry in that pattern.
Mr. Doethur, the fun part for the Government is that if you take your view then Starmer's wrong and the Government's divided; if you take the alternative view the minister's wrong and the Government's divided.
Mr. H, a fair point. The Government would be in better shape if it hadn't slashed ready-to-go investment while throwing money at union pay demands, stating there would be tax rises and leaving months of speculation, and *then* having the current little split over investment.
If they'd done better elsewhere this might be looked at in a more 'moral stand' kind of way. Because they've been almost uniformly poor economically this just looks like another entry in that pattern.
Well, the government is divided. That's obvious.
But on this issue, Starmer is clearly in the wrong and Haigh, whatever her other faults, is in the right.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I wear tie clips most days, not as jewelry but rather for practicality as I do not want my tie and ID lanyard falling on patients when I am examining them.
How do you manage to do that given you spend virtually all your time on here?
Is your other hand clutching your iPhone as you type out yet another post using autocorrect, making irregular and slightly rushed eye contact with your patient in the process?
I work irregular hours but not usually at 0730 on a Saturday.
Surely wearing a tie, let alone a tie clip, makes you common these days.
I have no idea, as I do not care much for British social class signifiers.
It's more that suits don't look right without a tie, and I like to dress well. Most British men care little for clothes and dress badly. Women notice, as they generally care to look presentable.
On a slightly more troubling note this was the response of a Polish general yesterday to the latest problems on the Lithuanian border:
Polish general Rajmund Andrzejczak: "If Russia attacks even an inch of Lithuanian territory, the response will come immediately. Not on the first day, but in the first minute. We will hit all strategic targets within a radius of 300 km. We will attack St. Petersburg directly".…
I mean, I admire the sentiment, Article 5 and all that, but it does seem to suggest that they are on something of a hair trigger.
It's interesting, though, isn't it. I distinctly remember the outrage from all sides on here when DP World/P&O did that.
Is/was that outrage completely empty? Or should DP World face consequences for such a blatant transfer of power from worker to shareholder? If so, what should those consequences be? And are we in such a hole that we can't afford to uphold certain standards of who we will accept investment from?
These aren't loaded questions, I can see either side of the argument. But it does seem like we are licensing such behaviour if we claim to be outraged by DP World but do nothing.
Thing is, in my entirely non-expert view it's not just about getting the money in to start with but making sure it stays here and is spent on what it's earmarked to be spent on.
Anyone who breaks a contract without warning can't be trusted to do that, so should immediately be ruled out of any government partnership.
My viewpoint is that DP World will rapidly change its viewpoint - if they don’t invest the most someone else will take the business and may actually be in a better location (Harwich say).
On a slightly more troubling note this was the response of a Polish general yesterday to the latest problems on the Lithuanian border:
Polish general Rajmund Andrzejczak: "If Russia attacks even an inch of Lithuanian territory, the response will come immediately. Not on the first day, but in the first minute. We will hit all strategic targets within a radius of 300 km. We will attack St. Petersburg directly".…
I mean, I admire the sentiment, Article 5 and all that, but it does seem to suggest that they are on something of a hair trigger.
Or (one might hope) playing Putin at his own game and performatively appearing so.
It's interesting, though, isn't it. I distinctly remember the outrage from all sides on here when DP World/P&O did that.
Is/was that outrage completely empty? Or should DP World face consequences for such a blatant transfer of power from worker to shareholder? If so, what should those consequences be? And are we in such a hole that we can't afford to uphold certain standards of who we will accept investment from?
These aren't loaded questions, I can see either side of the argument. But it does seem like we are licensing such behaviour if we claim to be outraged by DP World but do nothing.
Thing is, in my entirely non-expert view it's not just about getting the money in to start with but making sure it stays here and is spent on what it's earmarked to be spent on.
Anyone who breaks a contract without warning can't be trusted to do that, so should immediately be ruled out of any government partnership.
I've been kind of hoping for a while that Man U are going to break their contract with their manager although I suppose it cannot be said to be without warning.
The story about the Transport Minister and 'DP world' reveals the difficulties of the Labour government in relation to business. There is an attempt on the part of Starmer to do the Mandelson/Blair era co-operation but it then gets undermined by the left wing/trade union faction who - this time around - are way off message and lurking not far below the surface.
I find myself having sympathy with both sides.
I have no time for Middle Eastern Arabs who only care about themselves and making the maximum amount of money they can, and expect the world to serve them accordingly, but also the crass stupidity and rudeness of insulting your biggest investors days prior to them signing a really important deal for you and the country is beyond belief.
Both are signs of terrible self-awareness, diplomacy and people skills.
It's interesting, though, isn't it. I distinctly remember the outrage from all sides on here when DP World/P&O did that. ETA: 'that' being fire and rehire P&O workers so their pay and conditions could be worsened.
Is/was that outrage completely empty? Or should DP World face consequences for such a blatant transfer of power from worker to shareholder? If so, what should those consequences be? And are we in such a hole that we can't afford to uphold certain standards of who we will accept investment from?
These aren't loaded questions, I can see either side of the argument. But it does seem like we are licensing such behaviour if we claim to be outraged by DP World but do nothing.
Absolutely. We should sup with a very long spoon, if at all, with an overseas company that fired workers to employ agency staff from overseas on casualised terms, then off shores the profits. It's like being colonised by a reverse East India Company.
What's the point of Brexit if we don't protect the British worker from exploitation?
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
A more interesting and provocative list would be “telltale signs you are more posh than you think” targeted at those people who insist they’re salt of the earth working class and in touch with the views of the masses, despite their very evident middle classness.
- Sourdough - Microsoft teams - Floorboards - Flat whites - Cycling - Amazon prime - Wagamama - Kitchen extensions - Monzo - Rightmove & Zoopla - Greek Yoghurt - Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
One curiosity about British class consciousness is the obsession with not wanting to appear middle class. In America it's the opposite, with politicians there keen to stress their middle class values.
As the son of a salesman and secretary, I am undeniably of middle class origin, and have never had pretension to anything else. Maybe it's my time in Australasia and America that makes a difference, but I have no British middle class cringe.
Incidentally, apart from Wagamama I don't really fit your list.
I am middle class but don't have the cringe because I'm not lower middle class.
On a slightly more troubling note this was the response of a Polish general yesterday to the latest problems on the Lithuanian border:
Polish general Rajmund Andrzejczak: "If Russia attacks even an inch of Lithuanian territory, the response will come immediately. Not on the first day, but in the first minute. We will hit all strategic targets within a radius of 300 km. We will attack St. Petersburg directly".…
I mean, I admire the sentiment, Article 5 and all that, but it does seem to suggest that they are on something of a hair trigger.
The Poles know the Russians very well. They know you literally cannot give them an inch and threats are the only language their government understand. They have seen that dozens of times over the centuries since Russia destroyed the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.
Vicious counter-threats are also how West Germany and West Berlin were never invaded, despite the fact that Khrushchev threatened to invade them on several occasions.
But also, they just hate Russians for all they've done to Poland. Old Polish joke.
'If you're attacked by a Russian and a German at the same time, who do you kill first?
Mr. Doethur, the only thing I'd add to your Polish comment is that the Baltic Tigers are all small countries. If Russia gets the jump and can move rapidly they could be fully occupied pretty quickly, so a fast response makes sense on that score too.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
A more interesting and provocative list would be “telltale signs you are more posh than you think” targeted at those people who insist they’re salt of the earth working class and in touch with the views of the masses, despite their very evident middle classness.
- Sourdough - Microsoft teams - Floorboards - Flat whites - Cycling - Amazon prime - Wagamama - Kitchen extensions - Monzo - Rightmove & Zoopla - Greek Yoghurt - Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
One curiosity about British class consciousness is the obsession with not wanting to appear middle class. In America it's the opposite, with politicians there keen to stress their middle class values.
As the son of a salesman and secretary, I am undeniably of middle class origin, and have never had pretension to anything else. Maybe it's my time in Australasia and America that makes a difference, but I have no British middle class cringe.
Incidentally, apart from Wagamama I don't really fit your list.
But "middle class" in America doesn't mean exactly the same thing as here. There is middle class is basically referred to those in steady job but not particularly well off, its a bit like the I know how it feels my mum was on tax credits type thing we see here. Its a way of saying I am not part of the underclass, I do my bit, but I am not rich by any means.
Where as here, middle class refers to those from professional families who have had a very comfortable upbringing.
It is true though in the US, people are very keen to display their status, how successful they are, how much money they make, in a way that is often seen a vulgar or rubbing other people's noses in it in the UK. There is something of a martyr syndrome here, I work so hard and yet I still struggle, which we see with those ridiculous Telegraph / Times pieces about people on very good money complaining it ain't all roses.
Mr. Doethur, the only thing I'd add to your Polish comment is that the Baltic Tigers are all small countries. If Russia gets the jump and can move rapidly they could be fully occupied pretty quickly, so a fast response makes sense on that score too.
I think the Kursk operation shows that Russia has few combat ready troops elsewhere than the Donbas.
I suspect that any build up would be seen, so plenty of warnings too.
If the Poles wanted thay could wipe out Baltic Russian forces in a week.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
A more interesting and provocative list would be “telltale signs you are more posh than you think” targeted at those people who insist they’re salt of the earth working class and in touch with the views of the masses, despite their very evident middle classness.
- Sourdough - Microsoft teams - Floorboards - Flat whites - Cycling - Amazon prime - Wagamama - Kitchen extensions - Monzo - Rightmove & Zoopla - Greek Yoghurt - Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
That's a far more interesting, and revealing, list than the other one. I'm not sure which Lady Glenconner we mean, but the current one is a 1930s girl. And the 'posh' house (Holkham Hall) is pastiche Palladio.
To me it reads very "Islington dinner party", sort of from Inner Londoners who never get beyond the M25, and are significantly out of touch. Stereotypically, they'd get Abel & Cole (Okay, Ya?) to "be organic" rather than grow their own, or use a farm shop which might involve taking mud off a carrot.
(My comments are probably also revealing ).
Cycling is interesting to me; "middle class" is one of the baseless distracting tropes used by anti-LTN types, who don't want others to have what they have got. The changing demographics (from TFL) say different, but around here transport cycling has always been people who do it for the cost or convenience. There is a separate layer who take their cycle 5-10 miles in their car to cycle it somewhere, like walking the dog or the disabled relative.
Wagamama iirc started as a mass-catering echoing-hall stripped down food chain in London in the 1990s for "quick eat and go".
To Aldi for wine sounds like people who have only just discovered it in say the last 10 years. My relations in London used to always return there with a boot full of Aldi food, as it saved 1/4 or 1/3 - that's back to the late 1990s.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
A more interesting and provocative list would be “telltale signs you are more posh than you think” targeted at those people who insist they’re salt of the earth working class and in touch with the views of the masses, despite their very evident middle classness.
- Sourdough - Microsoft teams - Floorboards - Flat whites - Cycling - Amazon prime - Wagamama - Kitchen extensions - Monzo - Rightmove & Zoopla - Greek Yoghurt - Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
One curiosity about British class consciousness is the obsession with not wanting to appear middle class. In America it's the opposite, with politicians there keen to stress their middle class values.
As the son of a salesman and secretary, I am undeniably of middle class origin, and have never had pretension to anything else. Maybe it's my time in Australasia and America that makes a difference, but I have no British middle class cringe.
Incidentally, apart from Wagamama I don't really fit your list.
But "middle class" in America doesn't mean exactly the same thing as here. There is middle class is basically referred to those in steady job but not particularly well off, its a bit like the I know how it feels my mum was on tax credits type thing we see here. Its a way of saying I am not part of the underclass, but I am not rich by any means.
Where as here, middle class refers to those from professional families who have had a very comfortable upbringing.
I don't think that at all. What are the 40% of the population in SE groups B and C1 if not middle class?
On a slightly more troubling note this was the response of a Polish general yesterday to the latest problems on the Lithuanian border:
Polish general Rajmund Andrzejczak: "If Russia attacks even an inch of Lithuanian territory, the response will come immediately. Not on the first day, but in the first minute. We will hit all strategic targets within a radius of 300 km. We will attack St. Petersburg directly".…
I mean, I admire the sentiment, Article 5 and all that, but it does seem to suggest that they are on something of a hair trigger.
What's left of the Russian military wouldn't want to take on Poland.
But Putin might.
Whether his orders would be implemented is quesionable.
The story about the Transport Minister and 'DP world' reveals the difficulties of the Labour government in relation to business. There is an attempt on the part of Starmer to do the Mandelson/Blair era co-operation but it then gets undermined by the left wing/trade union faction who - this time around - are way off message and lurking not far below the surface.
The big mistake I think here was inviting DP World to be centerpiece of your high profile event. It was asking for trouble.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
A more interesting and provocative list would be “telltale signs you are more posh than you think” targeted at those people who insist they’re salt of the earth working class and in touch with the views of the masses, despite their very evident middle classness.
- Sourdough - Microsoft teams - Floorboards - Flat whites - Cycling - Amazon prime - Wagamama - Kitchen extensions - Monzo - Rightmove & Zoopla - Greek Yoghurt - Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
One curiosity about British class consciousness is the obsession with not wanting to appear middle class. In America it's the opposite, with politicians there keen to stress their middle class values.
As the son of a salesman and secretary, I am undeniably of middle class origin, and have never had pretension to anything else. Maybe it's my time in Australasia and America that makes a difference, but I have no British middle class cringe.
Incidentally, apart from Wagamama I don't really fit your list.
I am middle class but don't have the cringe because I'm not lower middle class.
That's very much in the realm of the Ronnie, Corbett, Ronnie Barker and John Cheese sketch.
"Class" and "class" are both nebulous notions. The mere fact that we rate people on the basis of where they went to school or how they drink their tea perhaps explains the post industrial decline of Britain.
Occasionally I would wind up at British Steel/Corus/Tata in Port Talbot. Their works canteen was a great leveller with the Plant Superintendent, FD, Furnaceman and Cleaner all eating at the same table.
"Class" and "class" seemed to be dying institutions, they came back with a vengeance from 2010.
I was wondering if somebody who knows more about accounting than me could give some guidance on a few questions - not advice!
1) I believe all businesses whose turnover exceeds the VAT threshold have to register for VAT whether they charge it or not. Does that apply to charities?
2) If not, what current additional procedures do they have to go through for accounting and audit?
3) How long does it actually take to set up VAT registration for a medium-sized concern with a turnover of say £3-4 million?
If anybody does know the answers to those I’d be grateful.
It's shocking that most people didn't feel able to report anything while he was alive.
This is very common.
He'd have had lots of people in authority and influence coming out to bat for him on the airwaves, and his lawyers and money would have descended in seconds to silence anyone who spoke.
There are lots of examples of people in power where strong rumours abound but going public and changing the public narrative around them is extremely high risk.
From what I understand, add hired thugs to lawyers and money.
ETA: wasn't his chief of security at Harrods ex-police and with lots of contacts and influence still in the police?
Sadly, I can believe it.
This was clearly known up on high - the fugger was repeatedly refused a passport, and rightly so - but that still doesn't mean anyone would have come out to bat for any woman who'd dared to speak out at the time.
Private Eye got this one right. They have been publishing on his sexual harassment for decades.
I was wondering if somebody who knows more about accounting than me could give some guidance on a few questions - not advice!
1) I believe all businesses whose turnover exceeds the VAT threshold have to register for VAT whether they charge it or not. Does that apply to charities?
2) If not, what current additional procedures do they have to go through for accounting and audit?
3) How long does it actually take to set up VAT registration for a medium-sized concern with a turnover of say £3-4 million?
If anybody does know the answers to those I’d be grateful.
Bloody hell. £3 to £4 m turnover! And they say teaching doesn't pay.
I should be so lucky!
I'm actually asking because there are all sorts of rumours swirling about VAT on private schools and that's the average turnover of a small-ish private secondary school outside London.
It will be interesting to see how the government intends to frame the VAT legislation to encompass private "schools" but not private "universities". Regulations specify the product or service provided, not to the status of the provider, although there's a voluntary exclusion for registered charities which, of course, some schools currently make use of. So to nail the private schools the law will have to specify the 'wrong sort' of charity and the 'wrong sort' of private education. Could be messy.
I've often wondered for how much longer the zero rating of printed matter can be justified.
I was wondering if somebody who knows more about accounting than me could give some guidance on a few questions - not advice!
1) I believe all businesses whose turnover exceeds the VAT threshold have to register for VAT whether they charge it or not. Does that apply to charities?
2) If not, what current additional procedures do they have to go through for accounting and audit?
3) How long does it actually take to set up VAT registration for a medium-sized concern with a turnover of say £3-4 million?
If anybody does know the answers to those I’d be grateful.
The story about the Transport Minister and 'DP world' reveals the difficulties of the Labour government in relation to business. There is an attempt on the part of Starmer to do the Mandelson/Blair era co-operation but it then gets undermined by the left wing/trade union faction who - this time around - are way off message and lurking not far below the surface.
The big mistake I think here was inviting DP World to be centerpiece of your high profile event. It was asking for trouble.
The current Government haven't done anything yet, which in itself warrants substantial criticism. They have allowed inertia to prevail.
The comms have been shocking. When the Telegraph makes up a fictional budgetary story it should be slapped down by No 10, even if something similar winds up in the budget. Anything that has appeared positive like the employment rights stuff or sending plane loads of Vietnamese migrants home has been ignored by the media- and remarkably by the Government Spin Doctors. There is no doubt they are very bad at Machiavellian politics.
Not sure how many followed the drama over the TIPP/American Greatness poll which showed Harris leading in Pennsylvania by 4 points with registered voters which then turned into a 1 point Trump lead with likely voters .
Essentially the pollster dropped Philadelphia RV from 124 to 12 likely voters .
This was not some tabulation error . They have since stated that their screener did this . Even though a large proportion of those voters said they were likely to vote the other questions over rode that . They have also admitted that this screener will be used in all their future polling !
They seem to be falling into the same trap that effected Gallup several years ago , an over harsh screener is attempting to crack a nut with a sledge hammer .
A word about the female v male vote . So far we’ve seen just under 55% of the early vote combined being female in states which report that . We should also bear in mind assumptions in the polling around that , national gender gaps in polling are quite different to those assumed at state level.
The percentage of the female vote varies between states . This is especially important in the swing states. More about that later for those who like my US election musings ....
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
He's right though. And your reaction is the typically defensive one of one who recognises the list largely applies to them.
Class is the thing we love to hate in this country, but everyone is steeped in it.
Only 2 things on that list are part of my life - liquid soap and viewing Rightmove - but I'm as far from refined/posh as you can get.
I was wondering if somebody who knows more about accounting than me could give some guidance on a few questions - not advice!
1) I believe all businesses whose turnover exceeds the VAT threshold have to register for VAT whether they charge it or not. Does that apply to charities?
2) If not, what current additional procedures do they have to go through for accounting and audit?
3) How long does it actually take to set up VAT registration for a medium-sized concern with a turnover of say £3-4 million?
If anybody does know the answers to those I’d be grateful.
1) Sort of. If your sales of VAT-able items are over £90k in a 12month period, then you have to register. This will include sales of things zero rated for VAT, but not things exempt from VAT. I think Education is currently exempt, so potentially private schools don't need to be registered. Being a charity is irrelevant, they are subject to the same VAT rules as everyone else. That said, for some businesses, it can be worth registering to reclaim their input VAT, even if they are below the £90k threshold. I'm not sure if you can do this if your only product is VAT exempt (otherwise I'm going to VAT registered as a sole trader to reclaim all the input VAT in my life) - you definitely can do this if your business is selling things that are zero rated.
2) Not a lot, assuming they are using modern accounting software. You run a quarterly report in SAGE or whatever, it spits out the VAT collected on sales, VAT paid on purchases. Submit it to HMRC, and they either direct debit the balance or credit you a refund the following month.
3) Pass. Probably depends a bit on how the existing accounting system is set up.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
A more interesting and provocative list would be “telltale signs you are more posh than you think” targeted at those people who insist they’re salt of the earth working class and in touch with the views of the masses, despite their very evident middle classness.
- Sourdough - Microsoft teams - Floorboards - Flat whites - Cycling - Amazon prime - Wagamama - Kitchen extensions - Monzo - Rightmove & Zoopla - Greek Yoghurt - Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
That's a far more interesting, and revealing, list than the other one. I'm not sure which Lady Glenconner we mean, but the current one is a 1930s girl. And the 'posh' house (Holkham Hall) is pastiche Palladio.
To me it reads very "Islington dinner party", sort of from Inner Londoners who never get beyond the M25, and are significantly out of touch. Stereotypically, they'd get Abel & Cole (Okay, Ya?) to "be organic" rather than grow their own, or use a farm shop which might involve taking mud off a carrot.
(My comments are probably also revealing ).
Cycling is interesting to me; "middle class" is one of the baseless distracting tropes used by anti-LTN types, who don't want others to have what they have got. The changing demographics (from TFL) say different, but around here transport cycling has always been people who do it for the cost or convenience. There is a separate layer who take their cycle 5-10 miles in their car to cycle it somewhere, like walking the dog or the disabled relative.
Wagamama iirc started as a mass-catering echoing-hall stripped down food chain in London in the 1990s for "quick eat and go".
To Aldi for wine sounds like people who have only just discovered it in say the last 10 years. My relations in London used to always return there with a boot full of Aldi food, as it saved 1/4 or 1/3 - that's back to the late 1990s.
Is all this claptrap about "class" some new fad the kiddies have invented?
I grew up in a Liverpool slum, but did Greats at Oxford. I've never owned a house in my life and now live almost entirely on a State pension - but my house is surrounded by millionaires (though, obviously, I'm old enough to think a "millionaire" is rich) and had Marlborough's people telling me with envy the other day about Howden's plans to spend even more on his Horse Trials than their boss.
I don't use a bike: I never had one because my parents couldn't afford such a luxury, so I never learned to cycle. I don't drink "flar whites" partly because I don't know what they are - but mostly because I've been told they're some kind of coffee, and coffee gives me the runs. I've been told these "flat whites" indicare some kind of status: to me they're silly-looking drinks Ozzies used to drink - and in my day Australia was where that bloke from Crocodile Dundee came from and no-one would touch anything from Australia except beer.
Actually: what is it about kiddies? In my day, people on the telly were always known as "people on the telly". When did anyone start giving a four x about actors' names?
Youth of today. Not just entitled snowflakes, but rich, class-obsessed entitled snowflakes.
Send them all to Australia, I say. Only language they'll understand.
"The 16 telltale signs you’re more common than you think – according to an etiquette expert
After Lady Glenconner’s pronouncement that fish knives are for the unrefined, we asked William Hanson what else is par for the coarse
1. Tie clips 2. Liquid soap 3. Eating on the street 4. Holding a knife like a pen 5. Mounted televisions 6. Applying make-up in public 7. Gin and tonic 8. Prosecco in lieu of champagne 9. Eating on the Tube 10. Personalised number plates 11. Zoopla and Rightmove 12. Hot tubs 13. The Great British Bake Off 14. Trainers (in particular, Adidas) 15. Buying portraits 16. Salted caramel"
Yes, I recognise that list. It's very British. Aspirational working class. Except whoever is selling or buying a house is going to use Rightmove unless they have a personal agent or money is no object.
The odd one is (7) as Colonial Administrators and well-to-do ex-pats would drink that extensively.
Maybe it's about all the new naff flavoured gins.
Nah, it's a list produced by someone who has just put on things that *he* thinks are a bit unclassy. I'd love to go around William Hanson's gaff and judge him by my high standards.
It's a bit like the person on Twix who's producing a list of c**ts that is just a list of his personal dislikes.
Besides, IMO class is best shown by how you act, not these stupid things.
Hanson is an arse. He’s not exactly upper class himself and is one of those people who think that by adopting airs and graces and etiquette that he thinks are followed by the upper classes people will think he is upper class. Clearly he doesn’t get that the real upper classes are hammering their gin and tonics. Will use whichever knife is clean to eat their fish and don’t give a fig about silly rules like this.
Today however there will be a load of insecure weirdos binning their trainers, cancelling their portrait purchases and hissing at GBBO.
And who ever thought tie clips were anything but naff anyway?
I think Hanson is a faux-wannabe and a bit of a prat, and you're right he's an imitator- making those sorts of list alone is unclassy- but it largely rings true.
I'd say he's middle-class desperately wanting to appear upper-class.
Those on his list will either be aspirational working class, and proud of it, or lower middle-class horrified they might be associated with the same, and will thus turn their guns on Hanson.
A more interesting and provocative list would be “telltale signs you are more posh than you think” targeted at those people who insist they’re salt of the earth working class and in touch with the views of the masses, despite their very evident middle classness.
- Sourdough - Microsoft teams - Floorboards - Flat whites - Cycling - Amazon prime - Wagamama - Kitchen extensions - Monzo - Rightmove & Zoopla - Greek Yoghurt - Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
I was wondering if somebody who knows more about accounting than me could give some guidance on a few questions - not advice!
1) I believe all businesses whose turnover exceeds the VAT threshold have to register for VAT whether they charge it or not. Does that apply to charities?
2) If not, what current additional procedures do they have to go through for accounting and audit?
3) How long does it actually take to set up VAT registration for a medium-sized concern with a turnover of say £3-4 million?
If anybody does know the answers to those I’d be grateful.
Bloody hell. £3 to £4 m turnover! And they say teaching doesn't pay.
I should be so lucky!
I'm actually asking because there are all sorts of rumours swirling about VAT on private schools and that's the average turnover of a small-ish private secondary school outside London.
my local members only drinking den recently got caught by the vat thresholds and put the price of a pint up 20% overnight.
Comments
- Sourdough
- Microsoft teams
- Floorboards
- Flat whites
- Cycling
- Amazon prime
- Wagamama
- Kitchen extensions
- Monzo
- Rightmove & Zoopla
- Greek Yoghurt
- Going to Aldi & Lidl for the wine section
Is your other hand clutching your iPhone as you type out yet another post using autocorrect, making irregular and slightly rushed eye contact with your patient in the process?
Therefore it's use is to be deprecated, and scorned.
The correct word is a choice of knickers, undies or pants.
Now you know.
Must be the only time you don't post.
It's more that suits don't look right without a tie, and I like to dress well. Most British men care little for clothes and dress badly. Women notice, as they generally care to look presentable.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BPgQp2VuZwQ&t=60s&pp=2AE8kAIB
As the son of a salesman and secretary, I am undeniably of middle class origin, and have never had pretension to anything else. Maybe it's my time in Australasia and America that makes a difference, but I have no British middle class cringe.
Incidentally, apart from Wagamama I don't really fit your list.
Incidentally, I once nearly got thrown out of the (then) local Waitrose, down in Romsey. They sometimes had a sommelier to give advice on wines (the only supermarket I've seen this in).
I was perusing the wines, and went to the sommelier. "I've a complaint," I said.
"Oh yes?" he said, suddenly interested.
I point at a bottle. "What does this say?"
"It says it's a dry white, sir."
"Well, darned it, I want a bottle with liquid in it, not one that's dry!"
I really, truthfully, did this.
As always, though, it shows the original sin in the UK is still class prejudice not race prejudice as it is in the USA.
It's not quite deliberately not inviting Musk, but a Labour minister has managed to chase away a little more investment: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r82pjd8gpo
https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-trump-lost-new-york-times-interview-e81ea9bc1900cab9eaf691e216d7a49e#
In my grandma's latter years (age 80+, time period late 1980s), when mum used to do her washing, she always called Grandma's lower underwear "pants". which was a usage I had not heard before that always stuck in my memory - to me that was somewhat depersonalised. So variation, but rhetorically the basic principle is that Usonians are incorrect
There are lots of threads on Quora (sample below).
https://www.quora.com/In-the-UK-what-is-the-difference-between-the-terms-pants-and-knickers-Are-they-interchangeable
* One linguistic battle I think I have unfortunately lost is asking for "Cafe au Lait" in coffee shops; very few of them know what it is. "White Americano" is a horrible term.
https://x.com/dungarbhan/status/1844995736175313091?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
Calling out P&O Ferries is also a good idea. Their behaviour was utterly disgusting, conceivably illegal and the supine behaviour of the government at the time was pathetic. They are not to be trusted and therefore should not be 'investment partners' any more than Macquarie should.
Distancing the government from calling out criminals is not a good idea. It makes Starmer look cowardly and stupid.
Is/was that outrage completely empty? Or should DP World face consequences for such a blatant transfer of power from worker to shareholder? If so, what should those consequences be? And are we in such a hole that we can't afford to uphold certain standards of who we will accept investment from?
These aren't loaded questions, I can see either side of the argument. But it does seem like we are licensing such behaviour if we claim to be outraged by DP World but do nothing.
I'm actually asking because there are all sorts of rumours swirling about VAT on private schools and that's the average turnover of a small-ish private secondary school outside London.
Anyone who breaks a contract without warning can't be trusted to do that, so should immediately be ruled out of any government partnership.
To which the new one is - being forced to finish a bottle of Turkish champagne which we were given for breakfast - we really only wanted a glas each
Makes me worry (a bit more) that Starmer is leaving any principles or vision at the door of number 10.
Mr. H, a fair point. The Government would be in better shape if it hadn't slashed ready-to-go investment while throwing money at union pay demands, stating there would be tax rises and leaving months of speculation, and *then* having the current little split over investment.
If they'd done better elsewhere this might be looked at in a more 'moral stand' kind of way. Because they've been almost uniformly poor economically this just looks like another entry in that pattern.
But on this issue, Starmer is clearly in the wrong and Haigh, whatever her other faults, is in the right.
Polish general Rajmund Andrzejczak: "If Russia attacks even an inch of Lithuanian territory, the response will come immediately. Not on the first day, but in the first minute. We will hit all strategic targets within a radius of 300 km. We will attack St. Petersburg directly".…
I mean, I admire the sentiment, Article 5 and all that, but it does seem to suggest that they are on something of a hair trigger.
I have no time for Middle Eastern Arabs who only care about themselves and making the maximum amount of money they can, and expect the world to serve them accordingly, but also the crass stupidity and rudeness of insulting your biggest investors days prior to them signing a really important deal for you and the country is beyond belief.
Both are signs of terrible self-awareness, diplomacy and people skills.
What's the point of Brexit if we don't protect the British worker from exploitation?
Vicious counter-threats are also how West Germany and West Berlin were never invaded, despite the fact that Khrushchev threatened to invade them on several occasions.
But also, they just hate Russians for all they've done to Poland. Old Polish joke.
'If you're attacked by a Russian and a German at the same time, who do you kill first?
Answer: The German. Business before pleasure.'
Where as here, middle class refers to those from professional families who have had a very comfortable upbringing.
It is true though in the US, people are very keen to display their status, how successful they are, how much money they make, in a way that is often seen a vulgar or rubbing other people's noses in it in the UK. There is something of a martyr syndrome here, I work so hard and yet I still struggle, which we see with those ridiculous Telegraph / Times pieces about people on very good money complaining it ain't all roses.
I suspect that any build up would be seen, so plenty of warnings too.
If the Poles wanted thay could wipe out Baltic Russian forces in a week.
To me it reads very "Islington dinner party", sort of from Inner Londoners who never get beyond the M25, and are significantly out of touch. Stereotypically, they'd get Abel & Cole (Okay, Ya?) to "be organic" rather than grow their own, or use a farm shop which might involve taking mud off a carrot.
(My comments are probably also revealing
Cycling is interesting to me; "middle class" is one of the baseless distracting tropes used by anti-LTN types, who don't want others to have what they have got. The changing demographics (from TFL) say different, but around here transport cycling has always been people who do it for the cost or convenience. There is a separate layer who take their cycle 5-10 miles in their car to cycle it somewhere, like walking the dog or the disabled relative.
Wagamama iirc started as a mass-catering echoing-hall stripped down food chain in London in the 1990s for "quick eat and go".
To Aldi for wine sounds like people who have only just discovered it in say the last 10 years. My relations in London used to always return there with a boot full of Aldi food, as it saved 1/4 or 1/3 - that's back to the late 1990s.
NEW THREAD
But Putin might.
Whether his orders would be implemented is quesionable.
"Class" and "class" are both nebulous notions. The mere fact that we rate people on the basis of where they went to school or how they drink their tea perhaps explains the post industrial decline of Britain.
Occasionally I would wind up at British Steel/Corus/Tata in Port Talbot. Their works canteen was a great leveller with the Plant Superintendent, FD, Furnaceman and Cleaner all eating at the same table.
"Class" and "class" seemed to be dying institutions, they came back with a vengeance from 2010.
https://www.gov.uk/vat-charities/how-to-claim-relief
I've often wondered for how much longer the zero rating of printed matter can be justified.
Which is the point really. Do charities have to follow the same accounting procedures as a business before they can reclaim VAT?
If not, I don't see how that can be set up to run from January.
The comms have been shocking. When the Telegraph makes up a fictional budgetary story it should be slapped down by No 10, even if something similar winds up in the budget. Anything that has appeared positive like the employment rights stuff or sending plane loads of Vietnamese migrants home has been ignored by the media- and remarkably by the Government Spin Doctors. There is no doubt they are very bad at Machiavellian politics.
Essentially the pollster dropped Philadelphia RV from 124 to 12 likely voters .
This was not some tabulation error . They have since stated that their screener did this . Even though a large proportion of those voters said they were likely to vote the other questions over rode that . They have also admitted that this screener will be used in all their future polling !
They seem to be falling into the same trap that effected Gallup several years ago , an over harsh screener is attempting to crack a nut with a sledge hammer .
A word about the female v male vote . So far we’ve seen just under 55% of the early vote combined being female in states which report that . We should also bear in mind assumptions in the polling around that , national gender gaps in polling are quite different to those assumed at state level.
The percentage of the female vote varies between states . This is especially important in the swing states. More about that later for those who like my US election musings ....
To me it seems a meaningless made-up list.
Good morning, everyone.
2) Not a lot, assuming they are using modern accounting software. You run a quarterly report in SAGE or whatever, it spits out the VAT collected on sales, VAT paid on purchases. Submit it to HMRC, and they either direct debit the balance or credit you a refund the following month.
3) Pass. Probably depends a bit on how the existing accounting system is set up.
I grew up in a Liverpool slum, but did Greats at Oxford. I've never owned a house in my life and now live almost entirely on a State pension - but my house is surrounded by millionaires (though, obviously, I'm old enough to think a "millionaire" is rich) and had Marlborough's people telling me with envy the other day about Howden's plans to spend even more on his Horse Trials than their boss.
I don't use a bike: I never had one because my parents couldn't afford such a luxury, so I never learned to cycle. I don't drink "flar whites" partly because I don't know what they are - but mostly because I've been told they're some kind of coffee, and coffee gives me the runs. I've been told these "flat whites" indicare some kind of status: to me they're silly-looking drinks Ozzies used to drink - and in my day Australia was where that bloke from Crocodile Dundee came from and no-one would touch anything from Australia except beer.
Actually: what is it about kiddies? In my day, people on the telly were always known as "people on the telly". When did anyone start giving a four x about actors' names?
Youth of today. Not just entitled snowflakes, but rich, class-obsessed entitled snowflakes.
Send them all to Australia, I say. Only language they'll understand.
Cycling
Greek yoghurt
Aldi wine
Still working class. Phew !