Remember when Cameron genuinely thought LOL meant "Lots Of Love" ?
It was great, a few of his staff told me they'd often messages from Dave along the following lines
'Sorry to hear your grandfather is in hospital
LOL
Dave'
They found it comforting/amusing in difficult times.
It would have been like a term of endearment.
How was lunch with the soon to be ermine clad Lord JohnO?
Depressing.
Nothing to do with JohnO's magnificent company but the realisation that Jenrick is going to win and he'll be an utter disaster, the the pineapple on the pizza with Trump winning the presidency a few days later.
I think Harris v Trump is still neck and neck, all comes down to Pennsylvania and North Carolina
Remember when Cameron genuinely thought LOL meant "Lots Of Love" ?
It was great, a few of his staff told me they'd often messages from Dave along the following lines
'Sorry to hear your grandfather is in hospital
LOL
Dave'
They found it comforting/amusing in difficult times.
It would have been like a term of endearment.
How was lunch with the soon to be ermine clad Lord JohnO?
Depressing.
Nothing to do with JohnO's magnificent company but the realisation that Jenrick is going to win and he'll be an utter disaster, the the pineapple on the pizza with Trump winning the presidency a few days later.
It might be he is simply a stage the Tories have to go through before they realise they have to pick someone sane.
The problem is if Jenrick is a Truss like disaster they won't learn the actual lesson they need to learn and instead double down with Kemi Badenoch winning the second time round...
Fortunately for the Tories Starmer is already the second most unpopuar PM this century after Truss so even Jenrick or Badenoch could make gains against him
I really fear a Jenrick or Badenoch win but everything is so uncertain and volatile anything could happen
Indeed 25% to Labour and the same to Conservative, Lib Dems and Reform is not the impossible imagination that it would have been a while ago
Remember when Cameron genuinely thought LOL meant "Lots Of Love" ?
It was great, a few of his staff told me they'd often messages from Dave along the following lines
'Sorry to hear your grandfather is in hospital
LOL
Dave'
They found it comforting/amusing in difficult times.
It would have been like a term of endearment.
How was lunch with the soon to be ermine clad Lord JohnO?
Depressing.
Nothing to do with JohnO's magnificent company but the realisation that Jenrick is going to win and he'll be an utter disaster, the the pineapple on the pizza with Trump winning the presidency a few days later.
It might be he is simply a stage the Tories have to go through before they realise they have to pick someone sane.
The problem is if Jenrick is a Truss like disaster they won't learn the actual lesson they need to learn and instead double down with Kemi Badenoch winning the second time round...
Fortunately for the Tories Starmer is already the second most unpopuar PM this century after Truss so even Jenrick or Badenoch could make gains against him
First rule in politics - get the awkward bits out of the way early.
By the time 2028 comes along (especially if copyright protector, dodgy planning deal Jenrick is the Tory leader) the current issues will be forgotten as people feel better off.
I suspect as when it comes to elections the economy will be the only thing that matters.
Seriously. This country would have been better governed by ME, armed with a ZX Spectrum, during a heroin gouch, than by both the Tories or Labour these last 20 fucking years
Basic basic decisions have gone wrong. A garden gnome could have done better
The last competent leader of Britain was Blair pre Iraq. That is a looooooooong time
Plus Cameron 2010-2015, Sunak was also competent just partygate and the Truss disaster budget meant he could not win
Con + Ref are probably going to be on 50% pretty soon. The question is can they somehow transform that into winning a majority of seats, because at this year's GE they got 39% of the vote and 19% of seats between them.
There is no “they”.
Very many of those saying they will vote Reform are simply fed up with all the establishmanet partied and are registering a NOTA preference. A lot of them won’t be arsed to vote at all, hence Reform might better be renamed Underperform.
If the C+R total reaches 50% it simply means there are even more pissed off people than before; not that there is a majority wanting to see Dodgy Jenrick as Prime Minister.
To be honest this was the claim made before the last election. None of the commentators seriously thought Reform would do as well as the polls suggested and many on here were confidently claiming they would get no seats at all. There was a huge amount of wishful thinking going on with regard to [the lack of] Reform support. There were also plenty saying that the only seat Reform would win would be Farage's. And yet Reform did gain seats and came far too close in plenty of others.
This sort of thinking is dangerous. At least for those of us who would rather not see Reform gaining seats. It is also the same thinking that was prevelant before the EU Referendum, especially on here. In that instance I was glad that the received wisdom was wrong. In this case I will not be.
Post worthy of a +1 rather than just a like.
While people were debating the outcome of a second referendum the other day, I can't help but remember the 2019 European Parliament elections where Farage's lot came top on 30% and the Tories a miserable 4th on 8%. While the figures don't transpose directly into FPTP, it would have given Farage's vehicle a 100-200 majority if translated to a westminster election.
I could easily see this becoming the outcome of 2029 if neither the Tories nor Labour get their act together.
I really do hope you are wrong. A few months ago I would have said you were for sure. I thought they would get a few seats at the GE but not really make a big break through (so I am perhaps guilty of exactly the blindness I criticise even though that was the outcome). But I am shaken by the recent favourable polling about attacks on refugees and asylum seekers and do start to very much worry about what might happen if Labour and the Tories both continue to fail to provide proper leadership and Governance.
If Labour and Starmer fail to deliver and/or continue to demonstrate as they are doing that they are indeed "all the bloody same" then I dont think Jenrick's tory shower will be the beneficiaries. It's Farage all the way in 2029.
If the next general election result was say Labour 27% Reform 23% and Tories 23%, then the Tories would gain 60 Labour seats while Reform would only gain 37 Labour seats. So under FPTP even if the Tories didn't gain any extra votes compared to 2024 if Farage ate into the Labour vote it would be the Tories the main beneficiaries
That will be making assumptions about more or less uniform swing. In our system you have to win local seats, not national votes, and how seats are won will depend on the parties emphasis and campaigning and so on, and most of all on how voters behave.
in 2024 GE the voters behaved in such a way as to give the LDs loads more seats than could have been the case with the same number of votes. Voters can do the same with Reform if they want.
They can, if they want to. But hardly anyone really minds the Lib Dems. I do, but even that's mostly for ancestral family loyalty reasons.
Plenty of people really object to Reform. And, at some weird subconscious level, FPTP takes account of that.
Very interesting. I think I agree. I am rather fan of FPTP in single member seats. And I think the collective nation does act in particular ways as you suggest. Reform get more votes than the LDs in 2024 but few seats. LDs are genuinely capable of grown up politics. Reform clearly are not. Is there a subtle link between these facts?
I voted Labour, for the first time, for three linked reasons: to change the government and ensure we had one, to not vote for Reform, to make sure the Tories lost as badly as possible. Not out of any pro Labour conviction. Maybe I was not alone. And maybe there is, Jung like, a collective unconscious will.
I do though wonder how large the set of people is who didn't vote Reform this year on the assumption they couldn't win/were going to be fairly irrelevant, who might be more inclined to vote for them now they've seen Reform getting a second place in their constituency...
My very fallible opinion is that there is a ceiling to Reform support, but that could be wrong, and the other parties are trying hard to look at bad as them anyway. So all this is one reason, of many, why the next general election is not going to be dull.
Labour (I think) have already lost the chance to consolidate their position so as to make the next election a boring foregone conclusion. This isn't happening.
Remember when Cameron genuinely thought LOL meant "Lots Of Love" ?
It was great, a few of his staff told me they'd often messages from Dave along the following lines
'Sorry to hear your grandfather is in hospital
LOL
Dave'
They found it comforting/amusing in difficult times.
It would have been like a term of endearment.
How was lunch with the soon to be ermine clad Lord JohnO?
Depressing.
Nothing to do with JohnO's magnificent company but the realisation that Jenrick is going to win and he'll be an utter disaster, the the pineapple on the pizza with Trump winning the presidency a few days later.
It might be he is simply a stage the Tories have to go through before they realise they have to pick someone sane.
The problem is if Jenrick is a Truss like disaster they won't learn the actual lesson they need to learn and instead double down with Kemi Badenoch winning the second time round...
Fortunately for the Tories Starmer is already the second most unpopuar PM this century after Truss so even Jenrick or Badenoch could make gains against him
First rule in politics - get the awkward bits out of the way early.
By the time 2028 comes along (especially if copyright protector, dodgy planning deal Jenrick is the Tory leader) the current issues will be forgotten as people feel better off.
I suspect as when it comes to elections the economy will be the only thing that matters.
I wonder what a proto-PB would have been saying in Autumn 1979, or indeed what the medium would have been?
Remember when Cameron genuinely thought LOL meant "Lots Of Love" ?
It was great, a few of his staff told me they'd often messages from Dave along the following lines
'Sorry to hear your grandfather is in hospital
LOL
Dave'
They found it comforting/amusing in difficult times.
It would have been like a term of endearment.
How was lunch with the soon to be ermine clad Lord JohnO?
Depressing.
Nothing to do with JohnO's magnificent company but the realisation that Jenrick is going to win and he'll be an utter disaster, the the pineapple on the pizza with Trump winning the presidency a few days later.
It might be he is simply a stage the Tories have to go through before they realise they have to pick someone sane.
The problem is if Jenrick is a Truss like disaster they won't learn the actual lesson they need to learn and instead double down with Kemi Badenoch winning the second time round...
Fortunately for the Tories Starmer is already the second most unpopuar PM this century after Truss so even Jenrick or Badenoch could make gains against him
I really fear a Jenrick or Badenoch win but everything is so uncertain and volatile anything could happen
Indeed 25% to Labour and the same to Conservative, Lib Dems and Reform is not the impossible imagination that it would have been a while ago
Labour, Tories and Reform all on 25% is not impossible, though I can't see the LDs going over 15%, especially as the Greens probably get 7% or so and the SNP 2-3% and the NI vote
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Con + Ref are probably going to be on 50% pretty soon. The question is can they somehow transform that into winning a majority of seats, because at this year's GE they got 39% of the vote and 19% of seats between them.
There is no “they”.
Very many of those saying they will vote Reform are simply fed up with all the establishmanet partied and are registering a NOTA preference. A lot of them won’t be arsed to vote at all, hence Reform might better be renamed Underperform.
If the C+R total reaches 50% it simply means there are even more pissed off people than before; not that there is a majority wanting to see Dodgy Jenrick as Prime Minister.
To be honest this was the claim made before the last election. None of the commentators seriously thought Reform would do as well as the polls suggested and many on here were confidently claiming they would get no seats at all. There was a huge amount of wishful thinking going on with regard to [the lack of] Reform support. There were also plenty saying that the only seat Reform would win would be Farage's. And yet Reform did gain seats and came far too close in plenty of others.
This sort of thinking is dangerous. At least for those of us who would rather not see Reform gaining seats. It is also the same thinking that was prevelant before the EU Referendum, especially on here. In that instance I was glad that the received wisdom was wrong. In this case I will not be.
Post worthy of a +1 rather than just a like.
While people were debating the outcome of a second referendum the other day, I can't help but remember the 2019 European Parliament elections where Farage's lot came top on 30% and the Tories a miserable 4th on 8%. While the figures don't transpose directly into FPTP, it would have given Farage's vehicle a 100-200 majority if translated to a westminster election.
I could easily see this becoming the outcome of 2029 if neither the Tories nor Labour get their act together.
I really do hope you are wrong. A few months ago I would have said you were for sure. I thought they would get a few seats at the GE but not really make a big break through (so I am perhaps guilty of exactly the blindness I criticise even though that was the outcome). But I am shaken by the recent favourable polling about attacks on refugees and asylum seekers and do start to very much worry about what might happen if Labour and the Tories both continue to fail to provide proper leadership and Governance.
If Labour and Starmer fail to deliver and/or continue to demonstrate as they are doing that they are indeed "all the bloody same" then I dont think Jenrick's tory shower will be the beneficiaries. It's Farage all the way in 2029.
If the next general election result was say Labour 27% Reform 23% and Tories 23%, then the Tories would gain 60 Labour seats while Reform would only gain 37 Labour seats. So under FPTP even if the Tories didn't gain any extra votes compared to 2024 if Farage ate into the Labour vote it would be the Tories the main beneficiaries
That will be making assumptions about more or less uniform swing. In our system you have to win local seats, not national votes, and how seats are won will depend on the parties emphasis and campaigning and so on, and most of all on how voters behave.
in 2024 GE the voters behaved in such a way as to give the LDs loads more seats than could have been the case with the same number of votes. Voters can do the same with Reform if they want.
They can, if they want to. But hardly anyone really minds the Lib Dems. I do, but even that's mostly for ancestral family loyalty reasons.
Plenty of people really object to Reform. And, at some weird subconscious level, FPTP takes account of that.
Very interesting. I think I agree. I am rather fan of FPTP in single member seats. And I think the collective nation does act in particular ways as you suggest. Reform get more votes than the LDs in 2024 but few seats. LDs are genuinely capable of grown up politics. Reform clearly are not. Is there a subtle link between these facts?
I voted Labour, for the first time, for three linked reasons: to change the government and ensure we had one, to not vote for Reform, to make sure the Tories lost as badly as possible. Not out of any pro Labour conviction. Maybe I was not alone. And maybe there is, Jung like, a collective unconscious will.
I would rather single member seats were done via transferable votes. Far better that a candidate wins by 50% of preferred votes (even if it's my second choice) rather than the Reform (or Labour) candidate winning on 35% of the vote.
The AV is the one and only change I would like but, like Scottish independence and membership of the EU a referendum has settled it the other way.
Long enough ago that you could hold another referendum for it in 2030 or so and I suspect the 2028 result may make that something a lot more parties would support...
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
Hang on - you are basing that on Labour finalising the handing over of the Chango Islands where the initial decision was made by Bozo / Truss depending on who you read.
The only thing that should be obvious to everyone that the decision wasn't made in 2009 and definitely was not started and finalised between July to October 2024..
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
Remember when Cameron genuinely thought LOL meant "Lots Of Love" ?
It was great, a few of his staff told me they'd often messages from Dave along the following lines
'Sorry to hear your grandfather is in hospital
LOL
Dave'
They found it comforting/amusing in difficult times.
It would have been like a term of endearment.
How was lunch with the soon to be ermine clad Lord JohnO?
Depressing.
Nothing to do with JohnO's magnificent company but the realisation that Jenrick is going to win and he'll be an utter disaster, the the pineapple on the pizza with Trump winning the presidency a few days later.
It might be he is simply a stage the Tories have to go through before they realise they have to pick someone sane.
The problem is if Jenrick is a Truss like disaster they won't learn the actual lesson they need to learn and instead double down with Kemi Badenoch winning the second time round...
Fortunately for the Tories Starmer is already the second most unpopuar PM this century after Truss so even Jenrick or Badenoch could make gains against him
First rule in politics - get the awkward bits out of the way early.
By the time 2028 comes along (especially if copyright protector, dodgy planning deal Jenrick is the Tory leader) the current issues will be forgotten as people feel better off.
I suspect as when it comes to elections the economy will be the only thing that matters.
I can’t see any strategy of short term hit, for long term gain. I just see a government that is clueless.
I think there is a desperate will here, to think that this government will come good.
Even though, we know they’re crap. As are their rivals.
It is a definite possibility. They couldn't get much worse!
They are doing just fine. Avoided all the key strikes, building up to the budget, scraping the barnacles off the boat. Call me Chemical Boba if you will, but aside from the silly froth they are going okay.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
We need a Reform government. That is the only conclusion. The fucking Tories began this handover
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
And we now know these “diplomatic channels” work. That’s the example set by the Mauritians
Just put a bit of moral pressure on pathetic Britain and it folds immediately
The moral pressure would surely be on Argentina, given the Malv... er, I mean the Falklands have never actually been part of Argentina?
Just as the Chagos islands have never been part of Mauritius.
Detached from Mauritius in 1965.
The Falklands have never been detached from Argentina, because, er, it's never been part of Argentina.
I thought that the precursor country to Argentina had a penal colony on the Falklands in the 1830s, somewhat later than the first British colony, which was itself shortly after the first French colony and before the first Spanish colony.
IIRC the proto-Argentine effort failed before the British returned. So I would say that Argentina do have some sort of tenuous claim, but it's arguably weaker than the French claim, certainly weaker than the British claim, and insignificant compared to the people who are living there now.
But the precedent has been set. Once a claimant country gets a judgment against us on the ICJ, or in the UN, or both, we fold
Argentina can skillfully organize enough friends, via China, to get that done. Then, on the precedent so fucking stupidly set in the Chagos, we fold
The Tories are desperately stupid idiots for starting this, I think Starmer is an actual traitor
Low IQ Leon, just a couple of points, firstly you voted for Starmer, secondly as you do not do nuance, here's the Chief Minister of Gibraltar, quoting a Labour Foreign Office Minister on why any comparisons between the Chagos Islands and GIbraltar & The Falkland Islands is nonsense.
This from @SDoughtyMP puts what was beyond doubt, beyond doubt. It is a sine qua non that only the People of Gibraltar decide any matter related to the sovereignty of #Gibraltar.
The current reporting and debate in UK seems to be more about party politics, blame-gaming and Tory Party leadership issues rather than anything remotely to do with sovereignty of any Overdeas Territory.
I said this Chagos Surrender would reveal more dangerous rocks beyond (aside from its intrinsic self harming futility) and so it is. Already. The sharks gather as Britain bleeds out via the Starmer Artery
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
Remember when Cameron genuinely thought LOL meant "Lots Of Love" ?
It was great, a few of his staff told me they'd often messages from Dave along the following lines
'Sorry to hear your grandfather is in hospital
LOL
Dave'
They found it comforting/amusing in difficult times.
It would have been like a term of endearment.
How was lunch with the soon to be ermine clad Lord JohnO?
Depressing.
Nothing to do with JohnO's magnificent company but the realisation that Jenrick is going to win and he'll be an utter disaster, the the pineapple on the pizza with Trump winning the presidency a few days later.
It might be he is simply a stage the Tories have to go through before they realise they have to pick someone sane.
The problem is if Jenrick is a Truss like disaster they won't learn the actual lesson they need to learn and instead double down with Kemi Badenoch winning the second time round...
Fortunately for the Tories Starmer is already the second most unpopuar PM this century after Truss so even Jenrick or Badenoch could make gains against him
First rule in politics - get the awkward bits out of the way early.
By the time 2028 comes along (especially if copyright protector, dodgy planning deal Jenrick is the Tory leader) the current issues will be forgotten as people feel better off.
I suspect as when it comes to elections the economy will be the only thing that matters.
I can’t see any strategy of short term hit, for long term gain. I just see a government that is clueless.
Oh I really don't disagree - but if they start to shape up it will all be forgotten.
At the moment though - I would like to put the whole lot of them into a room and tell them how the world really works...
Literally the only decent thing I've seen this Government do is the minor changes at Euston, it won't work but at least they've realised there is a problem.
Now find a way to reinstate the engineer Lord Hendy got fired and remove him before every contract awarded by Network Rail since 2018 ends up in Judicial review...
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
We need a Reform government. That is the only conclusion. The fucking Tories began this handover
Did you not see Reform's economic policies. They made Truss's look sane and would have had the IMF in by now...
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
I would not expect the current government to be on my side, anywhere that there is a dispute over British sovereignty.
Seriously. This country would have been better governed by ME, armed with a ZX Spectrum, during a heroin gouch, than by both the Tories or Labour these last 20 fucking years
Basic basic decisions have gone wrong. A garden gnome could have done better
The last competent leader of Britain was Blair pre Iraq. That is a looooooooong time
Plus Cameron 2010-2015, Sunak was also competent just partygate and the Truss disaster budget meant he could not win
Cameron 2010-15 looked like a good government because Cameron was the prime minister from central casting. Take a closer look and the Lansley NHS reforms were a clusterflip; Universal Credit almost as bad but IDS would say he was undermined by the Chancellor; 20,000 coppers were axed; and the student loan scheme introduced which aside from anything else alienated even successful graduates from the blue team.
Cameron was well on his way to becoming our worst Prime Minister since Lord North.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
I think you meant to say "rescue the islanders from the fascist jackboot" which was Michael Foot's argument in that compelling Saturday debate that I listened to in the supermarket car park, rooted to the spot.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
I would not expect the current government to be on my side, anywhere that there is a dispute over British sovereignty.
Of course, the Tory approach is not much better.
That certainly is the experience of British colonial subjects such as the Chagossians. They were neither consulted nor compensated for their loss of their islands when we deported them to newly independent Mauritius.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
And we now know these “diplomatic channels” work. That’s the example set by the Mauritians
Just put a bit of moral pressure on pathetic Britain and it folds immediately
The moral pressure would surely be on Argentina, given the Malv... er, I mean the Falklands have never actually been part of Argentina?
Just as the Chagos islands have never been part of Mauritius.
Detached from Mauritius in 1965.
The Falklands have never been detached from Argentina, because, er, it's never been part of Argentina.
I thought that the precursor country to Argentina had a penal colony on the Falklands in the 1830s, somewhat later than the first British colony, which was itself shortly after the first French colony and before the first Spanish colony.
IIRC the proto-Argentine effort failed before the British returned. So I would say that Argentina do have some sort of tenuous claim, but it's arguably weaker than the French claim, certainly weaker than the British claim, and insignificant compared to the people who are living there now.
But the precedent has been set. Once a claimant country gets a judgment against us on the ICJ, or in the UN, or both, we fold
Argentina can skillfully organize enough friends, via China, to get that done. Then, on the precedent so fucking stupidly set in the Chagos, we fold
The Tories are desperately stupid idiots for starting this, I think Starmer is an actual traitor
Low IQ Leon, just a couple of points, firstly you voted for Starmer, secondly as you do not do nuance, here's the Chief Minister of Gibraltar, quoting a Labour Foreign Office Minister on why any comparisons between the Chagos Islands and GIbraltar & The Falkland Islands is nonsense.
This from @SDoughtyMP puts what was beyond doubt, beyond doubt. It is a sine qua non that only the People of Gibraltar decide any matter related to the sovereignty of #Gibraltar.
The current reporting and debate in UK seems to be more about party politics, blame-gaming and Tory Party leadership issues rather than anything remotely to do with sovereignty of any Overdeas Territory.
I said this Chagos Surrender would reveal more dangerous rocks beyond (aside from its intrinsic self harming futility) and so it is. Already. The sharks gather as Britain bleeds out via the Starmer Artery
I think there is a desperate will here, to think that this government will come good.
Even though, we know they’re crap. As are their rivals.
It is a definite possibility. They couldn't get much worse!
They are doing just fine. Avoided all the key strikes, building up to the budget, scraping the barnacles off the boat. Call me Chemical Boba if you will, but aside from the silly froth they are going okay.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
Labour have been left with a full set of operational A boats to find and destroy the Argentine fleet. No excuses.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
And we now know these “diplomatic channels” work. That’s the example set by the Mauritians
Just put a bit of moral pressure on pathetic Britain and it folds immediately
The moral pressure would surely be on Argentina, given the Malv... er, I mean the Falklands have never actually been part of Argentina?
Just as the Chagos islands have never been part of Mauritius.
Detached from Mauritius in 1965.
The Falklands have never been detached from Argentina, because, er, it's never been part of Argentina.
I thought that the precursor country to Argentina had a penal colony on the Falklands in the 1830s, somewhat later than the first British colony, which was itself shortly after the first French colony and before the first Spanish colony.
IIRC the proto-Argentine effort failed before the British returned. So I would say that Argentina do have some sort of tenuous claim, but it's arguably weaker than the French claim, certainly weaker than the British claim, and insignificant compared to the people who are living there now.
But the precedent has been set. Once a claimant country gets a judgment against us on the ICJ, or in the UN, or both, we fold
Argentina can skillfully organize enough friends, via China, to get that done. Then, on the precedent so fucking stupidly set in the Chagos, we fold
The Tories are desperately stupid idiots for starting this, I think Starmer is an actual traitor
Low IQ Leon, just a couple of points, firstly you voted for Starmer, secondly as you do not do nuance, here's the Chief Minister of Gibraltar, quoting a Labour Foreign Office Minister on why any comparisons between the Chagos Islands and GIbraltar & The Falkland Islands is nonsense.
This from @SDoughtyMP puts what was beyond doubt, beyond doubt. It is a sine qua non that only the People of Gibraltar decide any matter related to the sovereignty of #Gibraltar.
The current reporting and debate in UK seems to be more about party politics, blame-gaming and Tory Party leadership issues rather than anything remotely to do with sovereignty of any Overdeas Territory.
I said this Chagos Surrender would reveal more dangerous rocks beyond (aside from its intrinsic self harming futility) and so it is. Already. The sharks gather as Britain bleeds out via the Starmer Artery
FFS get a grip.
Ukraine is the prime example of how voluntarily giving up power for the good of the international community can end badly. They should have kept their nuclear weapons.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
And we now know these “diplomatic channels” work. That’s the example set by the Mauritians
Just put a bit of moral pressure on pathetic Britain and it folds immediately
The moral pressure would surely be on Argentina, given the Malv... er, I mean the Falklands have never actually been part of Argentina?
Just as the Chagos islands have never been part of Mauritius.
Detached from Mauritius in 1965.
The Falklands have never been detached from Argentina, because, er, it's never been part of Argentina.
I thought that the precursor country to Argentina had a penal colony on the Falklands in the 1830s, somewhat later than the first British colony, which was itself shortly after the first French colony and before the first Spanish colony.
IIRC the proto-Argentine effort failed before the British returned. So I would say that Argentina do have some sort of tenuous claim, but it's arguably weaker than the French claim, certainly weaker than the British claim, and insignificant compared to the people who are living there now.
But the precedent has been set. Once a claimant country gets a judgment against us on the ICJ, or in the UN, or both, we fold
Argentina can skillfully organize enough friends, via China, to get that done. Then, on the precedent so fucking stupidly set in the Chagos, we fold
The Tories are desperately stupid idiots for starting this, I think Starmer is an actual traitor
Low IQ Leon, just a couple of points, firstly you voted for Starmer, secondly as you do not do nuance, here's the Chief Minister of Gibraltar, quoting a Labour Foreign Office Minister on why any comparisons between the Chagos Islands and GIbraltar & The Falkland Islands is nonsense.
This from @SDoughtyMP puts what was beyond doubt, beyond doubt. It is a sine qua non that only the People of Gibraltar decide any matter related to the sovereignty of #Gibraltar.
The current reporting and debate in UK seems to be more about party politics, blame-gaming and Tory Party leadership issues rather than anything remotely to do with sovereignty of any Overdeas Territory.
I said this Chagos Surrender would reveal more dangerous rocks beyond (aside from its intrinsic self harming futility) and so it is. Already. The sharks gather as Britain bleeds out via the Starmer Artery
FFS get a grip.
Ukraine is the prime example of how voluntarily giving up power for the good of the international community can end badly. They should have kept their nuclear weapons.
Clinton persuaded them iirc.
So America owes them big time. Biden should stop vacillating.
Seriously. This country would have been better governed by ME, armed with a ZX Spectrum, during a heroin gouch, than by both the Tories or Labour these last 20 fucking years
Basic basic decisions have gone wrong. A garden gnome could have done better
The last competent leader of Britain was Blair pre Iraq. That is a looooooooong time
Plus Cameron 2010-2015, Sunak was also competent just partygate and the Truss disaster budget meant he could not win
Cameron 2010-15 looked like a good government because Cameron was the prime minister from central casting. Take a closer look and the Lansley NHS reforms were a clusterflip; Universal Credit almost as bad but IDS would say he was undermined by the Chancellor; 20,000 coppers were axed; and the student loan scheme introduced which aside from anything else alienated even successful graduates from the blue team.
Cameron was well on his way to becoming our worst Prime Minister since Lord North.
He cut the debt, cut tax, ensured even part time work paid with universal credit and provided more parental choice with free schools
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Macron announces France not sending weapons to Israel
Like us, I suspect they import more (certainly more that cannot be substituted) from Israel than they export to it. Cutting their nose off to spite their face, potentially.
France has been performatively announcing they won’t sell arms to Israel since De Gaulle.
Think Arabs, oil money, arms sales.
The actual sale of arms to Israel kept on happening. When asked, the French response was a shrug and "Je suis désolé“.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
We don't have any operational attack subs.
Everything else about your post was correct, nuanced and considered, however.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Are you OK - maybe a cuppa and rich tea biscuit time
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
Seriously. This country would have been better governed by ME, armed with a ZX Spectrum, during a heroin gouch, than by both the Tories or Labour these last 20 fucking years
Basic basic decisions have gone wrong. A garden gnome could have done better
The last competent leader of Britain was Blair pre Iraq. That is a looooooooong time
Plus Cameron 2010-2015, Sunak was also competent just partygate and the Truss disaster budget meant he could not win
Cameron 2010-15 looked like a good government because Cameron was the prime minister from central casting. Take a closer look and the Lansley NHS reforms were a clusterflip; Universal Credit almost as bad but IDS would say he was undermined by the Chancellor; 20,000 coppers were axed; and the student loan scheme introduced which aside from anything else alienated even successful graduates from the blue team.
Cameron was well on his way to becoming our worst Prime Minister since Lord North.
I disliked Cameron politically, but there was a coherency to what was doing during his time in office - which of course the Tories barely have had post-2016. The problem was that a lot of it was storing up problems for tomorrow that were deemed not immediately pressing or that affected those not going to vote Tory. Ironically the opposite of his 'fix the roof' mantra.
That wasn't a great idea, but if one was being generous could say was predicated on the better times arriving after the austerity drive and taking the pressure off.
Then Brexit and the ensuing chaos happened (arguably the referendum itself was a case of a put off problem that was made worse by doing so). Which whatever you think of it in the end, drove a coach and horses through Cameron's plans and any hope of a more benign economic and political period when in theory could turn the taps on and fix things that had been parked since 2010. Then of course Covid happened. Then Ukraine. Then Truss.
The result being problems have been left to fester until they're gangrenous when smart people with knowledge of their area were beginning to sound the alarm a decade, a decade and a half, or more ago.
If there's a lesson for Labour there, it's that if you think a problem needs fixing, don't put it off or do a bodge job because it suits you politically to do so now.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
We don't have any operational attack subs.
Everything else about your post was correct, nuanced and considered, however.
As of May 2024, the Royal Navy has six operational fleet submarines: one Trafalgar-class submarine and five Astute-class submarines. Two more Astute-class submarines are under construction.
You are thinking of our "Vanguard" Trident subs which at some point recently have all been "not at sea".
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
And we now know these “diplomatic channels” work. That’s the example set by the Mauritians
Just put a bit of moral pressure on pathetic Britain and it folds immediately
The moral pressure would surely be on Argentina, given the Malv... er, I mean the Falklands have never actually been part of Argentina?
Just as the Chagos islands have never been part of Mauritius.
Not true. They were until 1968.
Indeed we deported the Chagossians to Mauritius (and the Seychelles) for that reason.
Err wasn't that simply because we administered them as one unit during the empire ???
How on earth is that a basis for them claiming sovereignty over Chagos ?
Because we administered them as one. It's why Rodriguez Island is part of Mauritius too.
We administered Burma in the same administrative unit as India, yet that does not give them any residual right to their land.
If we had de-populated Burma by deporting all it's people to India then they might reasonably do so.
The Chagossians in Mauritius seem to back the transfer.
The Telegraph reporting tonight it will need an act of Parliament and a vote
And yet their own cartoon sums it up: Cleverly, Truss, Lammy and Starmer are all shouting at each other and pointing at a map of Chagos and saying "your fault".
For the tories to pretend they are not involved in this decision is desperate bollocks.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Seriously. This country would have been better governed by ME, armed with a ZX Spectrum, during a heroin gouch, than by both the Tories or Labour these last 20 fucking years
Basic basic decisions have gone wrong. A garden gnome could have done better
The last competent leader of Britain was Blair pre Iraq. That is a looooooooong time
Plus Cameron 2010-2015, Sunak was also competent just partygate and the Truss disaster budget meant he could not win
Cameron 2010-15 looked like a good government because Cameron was the prime minister from central casting. Take a closer look and the Lansley NHS reforms were a clusterflip; Universal Credit almost as bad but IDS would say he was undermined by the Chancellor; 20,000 coppers were axed; and the student loan scheme introduced which aside from anything else alienated even successful graduates from the blue team.
Cameron was well on his way to becoming our worst Prime Minister since Lord North.
I disliked Cameron politically, but there was a coherency to what was doing during his time in office - which of course the Tories barely have had post-2016. The problem was that a lot of it was storing up problems for tomorrow that were deemed not immediately pressing or that affected those not going to vote Tory. Ironically the opposite of his 'fix the roof' mantra.
That wasn't a great idea, but if one was being generous could say was predicated on the better times arriving after the austerity drive and taking the pressure off.
Then Brexit and the ensuing chaos happened (arguably the referendum itself was a case of a put off problem that was made worse by doing so). Which whatever you think of it in the end, drove a coach and horses through Cameron's plans and any hope of a more benign economic and political period when in theory could turn the taps on and fix things that had been parked since 2010. Then of course Covid happened. Then Ukraine. Then Truss.
The result being problems have been left to fester until they're gangrenous when smart people with knowledge of their area were beginning to sound the alarm a decade, a decade and a half, or more ago.
If there's a lesson for Labour there, it's that if you think a problem needs fixing, don't put it off or do a bodge job because it suits you politically to do so now.
Yes that's the problem with austerity. For a year or two it is tolerable, but if you go on long enough the accumulated damage leaves failing public services. Services that have a massive backlog of investment needed to bring up to tolerable standards.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Was there a single Argentinian killed by a Falkland Islander in the entire conflict?
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
And we now know these “diplomatic channels” work. That’s the example set by the Mauritians
Just put a bit of moral pressure on pathetic Britain and it folds immediately
The moral pressure would surely be on Argentina, given the Malv... er, I mean the Falklands have never actually been part of Argentina?
Just as the Chagos islands have never been part of Mauritius.
Not true. They were until 1968.
Indeed we deported the Chagossians to Mauritius (and the Seychelles) for that reason.
Err wasn't that simply because we administered them as one unit during the empire ???
How on earth is that a basis for them claiming sovereignty over Chagos ?
Because we administered them as one. It's why Rodriguez Island is part of Mauritius too.
We administered Burma in the same administrative unit as India, yet that does not give them any residual right to their land.
If we had de-populated Burma by deporting all it's people to India then they might reasonably do so.
The Chagossians in Mauritius seem to back the transfer.
The Telegraph reporting tonight it will need an act of Parliament and a vote
And yet their own cartoon sums it up: Cleverly, Truss, Lammy and Starmer are all shouting at each other and pointing at a map of Chagos and saying "your fault".
For the tories to pretend they are not involved in this decision is desperate bollocks.
Not sure what that has to do with an Act of Parliament if indeed it is needed
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
We don't have any operational attack subs.
Everything else about your post was correct, nuanced and considered, however.
As of May 2024, the Royal Navy has six operational fleet submarines: one Trafalgar-class submarine and five Astute-class submarines. Two more Astute-class submarines are under construction.
You are thinking of our "Vanguard" Trident subs which at some point recently have all been "not at sea".
The latest just launched, hopefully the defeatist useless PB left doesn't have too much echo in our weak and hapless PM and Foreign Secretary
BBC News report on 20 years of Park Run. The problem is since they started, levels of obesity and overweight-ness have gone up, not down. What does that tell us?
BBC News report on 20 years of Park Run. The problem is since they started, levels of obesity and overweight-ness have gone up, not down. What does that tell us?
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
We don't have any operational attack subs.
Everything else about your post was correct, nuanced and considered, however.
As of May 2024, the Royal Navy has six operational fleet submarines: one Trafalgar-class submarine and five Astute-class submarines. Two more Astute-class submarines are under construction.
You are thinking of our "Vanguard" Trident subs which at some point recently have all been "not at sea".
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Was there a single Argentinian killed by a Falkland Islander in the entire conflict?
BBC News report on 20 years of Park Run. The problem is since they started, levels of obesity and overweight-ness have gone up, not down. What does that tell us?
A divergence between the healthy and unhealthy, the rich and poor, net contributors and net recipients.
BBC News report on 20 years of Park Run. The problem is since they started, levels of obesity and overweight-ness have gone up, not down. What does that tell us?
That the issue may be complex and not easily fixed*
* separately it does seem that Ozempic and other GLP-1 are solving the issue because food is harder than cigarettes to stop people consuming
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
If you followed it then you would not make such a silly statement
Of course it was touch and go and winning the peace was by no means certain
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
If you followed it then you would not make such a silly statement
Of course it was touch and go and winning the peace was by no means certain
Exactly my memory of watching it and paying considerable attention at the time. And backed up with reading more recent accounts.
It's not as if Mrs T had much else in the South Atlantic.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
I can just about remember the Falklands War and I was 10 at the time with my Dad organising the loading of the ships (ideally don't put cornflakes beneath a tank) - the logistic issues have never been spoken about but they were touch and go...
Given that I'm now 53 and knowing your age I doubt you can remember the first thing about it let alone actually knew what was going on.
BBC News report on 20 years of Park Run. The problem is since they started, levels of obesity and overweight-ness have gone up, not down. What does that tell us?
That only a few people do it?
That there is an increasing split - more people are serious and semi serious about fitness. While a large number of people have got worse, as the same time.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
And we now know these “diplomatic channels” work. That’s the example set by the Mauritians
Just put a bit of moral pressure on pathetic Britain and it folds immediately
The moral pressure would surely be on Argentina, given the Malv... er, I mean the Falklands have never actually been part of Argentina?
Just as the Chagos islands have never been part of Mauritius.
Not true. They were until 1968.
Indeed we deported the Chagossians to Mauritius (and the Seychelles) for that reason.
Err wasn't that simply because we administered them as one unit during the empire ???
How on earth is that a basis for them claiming sovereignty over Chagos ?
Because we administered them as one. It's why Rodriguez Island is part of Mauritius too.
We administered Burma in the same administrative unit as India, yet that does not give them any residual right to their land.
If we had de-populated Burma by deporting all it's people to India then they might reasonably do so.
The Chagossians in Mauritius seem to back the transfer.
The Telegraph reporting tonight it will need an act of Parliament and a vote
And yet their own cartoon sums it up: Cleverly, Truss, Lammy and Starmer are all shouting at each other and pointing at a map of Chagos and saying "your fault".
For the tories to pretend they are not involved in this decision is desperate bollocks.
Not sure what that has to do with an Act of Parliament if indeed it is needed
The rest is politics
Personally I have no problem with the decision
The context of the cartoon is a news piece claiming there is "fury" and that a vote will need to be taken and immediately following that paragraph we have Jenrick being quoted as saying "staunch opposition" etc etc.
Yet Johnson started this and Cleverly did most of the ground work.
BBC News report on 20 years of Park Run. The problem is since they started, levels of obesity and overweight-ness have gone up, not down. What does that tell us?
As an aside Park Run doesn't exist in France anymore (Mrs Eek did it a couple of times when we were in Paris) - as you now do need a Doctor's note to participate...
Seriously. This country would have been better governed by ME, armed with a ZX Spectrum, during a heroin gouch, than by both the Tories or Labour these last 20 fucking years
Basic basic decisions have gone wrong. A garden gnome could have done better
The last competent leader of Britain was Blair pre Iraq. That is a looooooooong time
Plus Cameron 2010-2015, Sunak was also competent just partygate and the Truss disaster budget meant he could not win
Cameron 2010-15 looked like a good government because Cameron was the prime minister from central casting. Take a closer look and the Lansley NHS reforms were a clusterflip; Universal Credit almost as bad but IDS would say he was undermined by the Chancellor; 20,000 coppers were axed; and the student loan scheme introduced which aside from anything else alienated even successful graduates from the blue team.
Cameron was well on his way to becoming our worst Prime Minister since Lord North.
He cut the debt, cut tax, ensured even part time work paid with universal credit and provided more parental choice with free schools
Debt rose under Cameron, and free schools were basically Labour's academies under a different name.
Cameron looked like a good prime minister: he dressed smartly and spoke well, but it was mainly smoke and mirrors, like his disconnected windmill and cycling to work followed by a car carrying his suit.
Incidentally, quite by chance I have in front of me a Times piece from 2006, remarking on there being five old Etonians in Cameron's inner circle, and another 12 in his shadow ministerial team.
BBC News report on 20 years of Park Run. The problem is since they started, levels of obesity and overweight-ness have gone up, not down. What does that tell us?
That only a few people do it?
It's more than just a few, about 150,000 a week. It's a fairly small subset of the running community given its not particularly serious, you need to live fairly close to one and Saturday morning will exclude lots of people with hangovers (ahem).
About 20% of the UK population have a Strava account too.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
Once the Belgrano was sunk, no large Argentine vessels set sail.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
If you followed it then you would not make such a silly statement
Of course it was touch and go and winning the peace was by no means certain
Exactly my memory of watching it and paying considerable attention at the time. And backed up with reading more recent accounts.
It's not as if Mrs T had much else in the South Atlantic.
Mrs T was willing to order large Argentine ships to be sunk with heavy loss of life as Sunil said, pour encourager les autres
On topic, with the possible exception of Corbyn this problem will solve itself because these people will feel the desperate need for clicks so they'll gradually tend alt-right until they're not recognizably Labour any more, and then if they split anybody's vote it'll be Farage's.
"In 1980, a new UK Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, Nicholas Ridley, went to the Falklands trying to sell the islanders the benefits of a "leaseback" scheme, which met with strong opposition from the islanders. On his return to London in December 1980, he reported to parliament but was viciously attacked at what was seen as a sellout."
"In 1980, a new UK Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, Nicholas Ridley, went to the Falklands trying to sell the islanders the benefits of a "leaseback" scheme, which met with strong opposition from the islanders. On his return to London in December 1980, he reported to parliament but was viciously attacked at what was seen as a sellout."
Im pretty sure the mandarins in the Foreign Office would be pleased to see the back of the islands.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
I can just about remember the Falklands War and I was 10 at the time with my Dad organising the loading of the ships (ideally don't put cornflakes beneath a tank) - the logistic issues have never been spoken about but they were touch and go...
Given that I'm now 53 and knowing your age I doubt you can remember the first thing about it let alone actually knew what was going on.
I was 38 with 3 children and very much watching it as Sheffield was sunk, 32 Welsh Guards were killed, and at times it was on a knife edge until the Belgrano was sunk
Those who lived through it, and those who lost British Servicemen, know it was a difficult mission and at personal loss to many
Any talk of us even attempting such a unpredictable repeat really hasn't learnt the lesson from the history of the conflict, nearly 40 years ago
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
If you followed it then you would not make such a silly statement
Of course it was touch and go and winning the peace was by no means certain
Exactly my memory of watching it and paying considerable attention at the time. And backed up with reading more recent accounts.
It's not as if Mrs T had much else in the South Atlantic.
Mrs T was willing to order large Argentine ships to be sunk with heavy loss of life as Sunil said, pour encourager les autres
You must be using Google on overtime tonight
You clearly did not live through it on a daily basis
"In 1980, a new UK Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, Nicholas Ridley, went to the Falklands trying to sell the islanders the benefits of a "leaseback" scheme, which met with strong opposition from the islanders. On his return to London in December 1980, he reported to parliament but was viciously attacked at what was seen as a sellout."
Im pretty sure the mandarins in the Foreign Office would be pleased to see the back of the islands.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
Do you think they'll invade a la 1982???
No, President Milei made clear 'As a presidential candidate, Milei said Argentina had lost the war to the British and must “make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels,” according to state news agency Télam.
And we now know these “diplomatic channels” work. That’s the example set by the Mauritians
Just put a bit of moral pressure on pathetic Britain and it folds immediately
The moral pressure would surely be on Argentina, given the Malv... er, I mean the Falklands have never actually been part of Argentina?
Just as the Chagos islands have never been part of Mauritius.
Not true. They were until 1968.
Indeed we deported the Chagossians to Mauritius (and the Seychelles) for that reason.
Err wasn't that simply because we administered them as one unit during the empire ???
How on earth is that a basis for them claiming sovereignty over Chagos ?
Because we administered them as one. It's why Rodriguez Island is part of Mauritius too.
We administered Burma in the same administrative unit as India, yet that does not give them any residual right to their land.
If we had de-populated Burma by deporting all it's people to India then they might reasonably do so.
The Chagossians in Mauritius seem to back the transfer.
The Telegraph reporting tonight it will need an act of Parliament and a vote
And yet their own cartoon sums it up: Cleverly, Truss, Lammy and Starmer are all shouting at each other and pointing at a map of Chagos and saying "your fault".
For the tories to pretend they are not involved in this decision is desperate bollocks.
Not sure what that has to do with an Act of Parliament if indeed it is needed
The rest is politics
Personally I have no problem with the decision
The context of the cartoon is a news piece claiming there is "fury" and that a vote will need to be taken and immediately following that paragraph we have Jenrick being quoted as saying "staunch opposition" etc etc.
Yet Johnson started this and Cleverly did most of the ground work.
I know and it would have been signed over in due course once the air base was secured
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Was there a single Argentinian killed by a Falkland Islander in the entire conflict?
BBC News report on 20 years of Park Run. The problem is since they started, levels of obesity and overweight-ness have gone up, not down. What does that tell us?
A divergence between the healthy and unhealthy, the rich and poor, net contributors and net recipients.
(my theory is this is what kills off the NHS)
A few 'healthy eating' YT channels I've watched of late have given me a remarkable insight. It seems being quite well-off, eating nice organic food (ideally from your own copious garden), really helps.
Having a massive US-style fridge full of ferments, pickles and preserves - also double-plus-good.
(Not saying it's the only factor, but as with many things, having a bit of cash and security in life sure helps)
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
If desire to win was all that mattered a lot of wars would have ended differently.
It really was touch and go, as any Falklands vet would tell you.
BBC News report on 20 years of Park Run. The problem is since they started, levels of obesity and overweight-ness have gone up, not down. What does that tell us?
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
I can just about remember the Falklands War and I was 10 at the time with my Dad organising the loading of the ships (ideally don't put cornflakes beneath a tank) - the logistic issues have never been spoken about but they were touch and go...
Given that I'm now 53 and knowing your age I doubt you can remember the first thing about it let alone actually knew what was going on.
I was 38 with 3 children and very much watching it as Sheffield was sunk, 32 Welsh Guards were killed, and at times it was on a knife edge until the Belgrano was sunk
Those who lived through it, and those who lost British Servicemen, know it was a difficult mission and at personal loss to many
Any talk of us even attempting such a unpredictable repeat really hasn't learnt the lesson from the history of the conflict, nearly 40 years ago
I think you'll find you're wrong. Due to <insert non sequitur>.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
If desire to win was all that mattered a lot of wars would have ended differently.
It really was touch and go, as any Falklands vet would tell you.
I remember the attack on the Sheffield and a deep feeling of foreboding which was later matched at Bluff Cove and even when the Belgrano was sunk a feeling of unease as to how the international community would react
BBC News report on 20 years of Park Run. The problem is since they started, levels of obesity and overweight-ness have gone up, not down. What does that tell us?
A divergence between the healthy and unhealthy, the rich and poor, net contributors and net recipients.
(my theory is this is what kills off the NHS)
A few 'healthy eating' YT channels I've watched of late have given me a remarkable insight. It seems being quite well-off, eating nice organic food (ideally from your own copious garden), really helps.
Having a massive US-style fridge full of ferments, pickles and preserves - also double-plus-good.
(Not saying it's the only factor, but as with many things, having a bit of cash and security in life sure helps)
I think it's time.
I cooked tonight, dishwasher is broken. Half a dozen utensils and knives, three pans and stuff like graters, garlic press, measuring bowl etc etc. Decent meal, my partner is suitably impressed and I've been promised scrambled eggs in the morning. But the washing up...
Would've been a lot easier to chuck a frozen pizza in, for roughly the same £ cost.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Was there a single Argentinian killed by a Falkland Islander in the entire conflict?
No as the article said they formed resistance and sabotage of Argentine communications. They had bided their time over taking up arms as the British had arrived.
Leon is right, if weak, hand wringing useless British heritage haters like you take control of Starmer and his hapless government then Great Britain is dead.
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
If desire to win was all that mattered a lot of wars would have ended differently.
It really was touch and go, as any Falklands vet would tell you.
Would they? Wars, certainly wars of invasion, almost always end as one side gives up the fight and has no stomach for more loss of life
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Was there a single Argentinian killed by a Falkland Islander in the entire conflict?
No as the article said they formed resistance and sabotage of Argentine communications. They had bided their time over taking up arms as the British had arrived.
Leon is right, if weak, hand wringing useless British heritage haters like you take control of Starmer and his hapless government then Great Britain is dead.
You must be crushed
Someone's been sniffing the 'send-in-the-tanks' fumes this evening.
"In 1980, a new UK Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, Nicholas Ridley, went to the Falklands trying to sell the islanders the benefits of a "leaseback" scheme, which met with strong opposition from the islanders. On his return to London in December 1980, he reported to parliament but was viciously attacked at what was seen as a sellout."
Im pretty sure the mandarins in the Foreign Office would be pleased to see the back of the islands.
"In 1980, a new UK Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, Nicholas Ridley, went to the Falklands trying to sell the islanders the benefits of a "leaseback" scheme, which met with strong opposition from the islanders. On his return to London in December 1980, he reported to parliament but was viciously attacked at what was seen as a sellout."
Im pretty sure the mandarins in the Foreign Office would be pleased to see the back of the islands.
The mandarins of the Foreign Office would be pleased to see the back of everywhere except central London and Oxford
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Was there a single Argentinian killed by a Falkland Islander in the entire conflict?
No as the article said they formed resistance and sabotage of Argentine communications. They had bided their time over taking up arms as the British had arrived.
Leon is right, if weak, hand wringing useless British heritage haters like you take control of Starmer and his hapless government then Great Britain is dead.
You must be crushed
Sad to say but you have lost it tonight
The fact you refer to an article shows you were not old enough at the time to have first hand knowledge
You need to speak to Simon Weston and other of our vets who will think you are frankly insane
“Argentina’s foreign minister, Diana Mondino, promised “concrete action” to ensure that the Falklands, the British-controlled archipelago that Argentina calls the Malvinas and claims as its own, are handed to Buenos Aires.
She said: “Following the path we have already taken, with concrete actions and not empty rhetoric, we will recover full sovereignty over our Malvinas Islands.””
Guardian
And, they may well find Labour tango.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
Even Starmer isn't stupid enough to give away the Falklands to Argentina without the Falkland Islanders consent, it would be political suicide and bring down his government. If anything got Farage into government that would be it
Their starting point will be that all the ills of the world are down to Britain and there can be no moral or legitimate reason for Britain to hold any form of overseas territory anywhere, and anyone else who has a claim must have a good point. The rest will follow from that. Any opposition will be put down to a 'Rule Britannia' mentality, which they'll find even eww and will do all the work confirmation bias needs to do for them.
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
They also accept self determination though, given Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly have voted to stay British in referendums on the subject they can't challenge that.
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
What are they going to invade with
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
If you are fighting for your freedom you not only have personal guns, you can use knives to slit throats, even go full wicker man on an invader who gets detached from his comrades.
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
Why didn't the Islanders resist like this in 1982?
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
As Thatcher had sent a task force within five minutes. Longer time they could well have started killing Argentine occupation forces otherwise
Were you even alive during the Falklands war and witnessed just how touch and go it was ?
I was alive and there is nothing touch and go if you have the desire to win no matter what the cost which Thatcher did
I can just about remember the Falklands War and I was 10 at the time with my Dad organising the loading of the ships (ideally don't put cornflakes beneath a tank) - the logistic issues have never been spoken about but they were touch and go...
Given that I'm now 53 and knowing your age I doubt you can remember the first thing about it let alone actually knew what was going on.
I was 38 with 3 children and very much watching it as Sheffield was sunk, 32 Welsh Guards were killed, and at times it was on a knife edge until the Belgrano was sunk
Those who lived through it, and those who lost British Servicemen, know it was a difficult mission and at personal loss to many
Any talk of us even attempting such a unpredictable repeat really hasn't learnt the lesson from the history of the conflict, nearly 40 years ago
I think you'll find you're wrong. Due to <insert non sequitur>.
Comments
Indeed 25% to Labour and the same to Conservative, Lib Dems and Reform is not the impossible imagination that it would have been a while ago
By the time 2028 comes along (especially if copyright protector, dodgy planning deal Jenrick is the Tory leader) the current issues will be forgotten as people feel better off.
I suspect as when it comes to elections the economy will be the only thing that matters.
Labour (I think) have already lost the chance to consolidate their position so as to make the next election a boring foregone conclusion. This isn't happening.
I'm not sure there's any trench they'd fight in for the British national interest.
It's remarkable how much money something like Wogan had to dress a set for 3 minutes of TV..
You've got to get into the mindset of how these people think.
Yes 99.8%
No 0.2%
The only thing that should be obvious to everyone that the decision wasn't made in 2009 and definitely was not started and finalised between July to October 2024..
Falkland Islanders would also declare UDI if the Starmer government even considered handing them over to Argentina and would fight and kill any Argentine who stepped on their shores, they are better armed than in 1982. Given a Starmer government would also be trounced by a Farage and/or Tory landslide if the Falklands were given away to Argentina without Islanders consent, the new hard right UK government would certainly re invade the Falklands to impose UK rule again
The Chagossians in Mauritius seem to back the transfer.
Burma is a military dictatorship
Yet both were British.
At the moment though - I would like to put the whole lot of them into a room and tell them how the world really works...
Literally the only decent thing I've seen this Government do is the minor changes at Euston, it won't work but at least they've realised there is a problem.
Now find a way to reinstate the engineer Lord Hendy got fired and remove him before every contract awarded by Network Rail since 2018 ends up in Judicial review...
Of course, the Tory approach is not much better.
Cameron was well on his way to becoming our worst Prime Minister since Lord North.
It was touch and go in 1982, and we do not have the military or logistics to fight a war 8,000 miles away now
Oh hang on...
The UK of course also has more aircraft carriers and subs than Argentina to sink Argentine ships with
So America owes them big time. Biden should stop vacillating.
Think Arabs, oil money, arms sales.
The actual sale of arms to Israel kept on happening. When asked, the French response was a shrug and "Je suis désolé“.
Everything else about your post was correct, nuanced and considered, however.
Or perhaps life isn't like your armchair fantasies?
That wasn't a great idea, but if one was being generous could say was predicated on the better times arriving after the austerity drive and taking the pressure off.
Then Brexit and the ensuing chaos happened (arguably the referendum itself was a case of a put off problem that was made worse by doing so). Which whatever you think of it in the end, drove a coach and horses through Cameron's plans and any hope of a more benign economic and political period when in theory could turn the taps on and fix things that had been parked since 2010. Then of course Covid happened. Then Ukraine. Then Truss.
The result being problems have been left to fester until they're gangrenous when smart people with knowledge of their area were beginning to sound the alarm a decade, a decade and a half, or more ago.
If there's a lesson for Labour there, it's that if you think a problem needs fixing, don't put it off or do a bodge job because it suits you politically to do so now.
Damned tango-dancing surrender monkeys.
You are thinking of our "Vanguard" Trident subs which at some point recently have all been "not at sea".
For the tories to pretend they are not involved in this decision is desperate bollocks.
The Treasury refuses to confirm 1 January start date as unions, tax experts and school leaders say it is unworkable
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/05/doubts-grow-over-labours-vat-plan-for-private-schools
The rest is politics
Personally I have no problem with the decision
UK ‘resolutely committed’ to its overseas territories, says foreign office minister
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/05/uk-resolutely-committed-to-its-overseas-territories-says-foreign-minister
"Britain launches new nuclear attack submarine" https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-launches-new-nuclear-attack-submarine/
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/no-british-attack-submarines-at-sea-for-over-47-days/
"Please note, readers, that the Vanguard fleet, carrying the Continuous At Sea Deterrent, continues to meet its obligations."
(my theory is this is what kills off the NHS)
* separately it does seem that Ozempic and other GLP-1 are solving the issue because food is harder than cigarettes to stop people consuming
https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1842163198075519130
Of course it was touch and go and winning the peace was by no means certain
It's not as if Mrs T had much else in the South Atlantic.
Given that I'm now 53 and knowing your age I doubt you can remember the first thing about it let alone actually knew what was going on.
Yet Johnson started this and Cleverly did most of the ground work.
Cameron looked like a good prime minister: he dressed smartly and spoke well, but it was mainly smoke and mirrors, like his disconnected windmill and cycling to work followed by a car carrying his suit.
Incidentally, quite by chance I have in front of me a Times piece from 2006, remarking on there being five old Etonians in Cameron's inner circle, and another 12 in his shadow ministerial team.
About 20% of the UK population have a Strava account too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymggS4NsylY
Those who lived through it, and those who lost British Servicemen, know it was a difficult mission and at personal loss to many
Any talk of us even attempting such a unpredictable repeat really hasn't learnt the lesson from the history of the conflict, nearly 40 years ago
You clearly did not live through it on a daily basis
I wonder if Chagos might be unwound too.
Having a massive US-style fridge full of ferments, pickles and preserves - also double-plus-good.
(Not saying it's the only factor, but as with many things, having a bit of cash and security in life sure helps)
It really was touch and go, as any Falklands vet would tell you.
There were some very dark moments in the campaign
I cooked tonight, dishwasher is broken. Half a dozen utensils and knives, three pans and stuff like graters, garlic press, measuring bowl etc etc. Decent meal, my partner is suitably impressed and I've been promised scrambled eggs in the morning. But the washing up...
Would've been a lot easier to chuck a frozen pizza in, for roughly the same £ cost.
Leon is right, if weak, hand wringing useless British heritage haters like you take control of Starmer and his hapless government then Great Britain is dead.
You must be crushed
The fact you refer to an article shows you were not old enough at the time to have first hand knowledge
You need to speak to Simon Weston and other of our vets who will think you are frankly insane