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Ten years on – politicalbetting.com

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  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,627
    MattW said:

    I posted a link with 2022 data - your Germany number is very out of line on the data on the map there. But it shows a fall in Germany from 13% to 10% over just a year or so in 2022. Similar big recent fall in the UK from 15% to 10%. Norway 14% to 7%. Denmark the other way 1~13% to 18%.

    What an interesting set of numbers.

    Flight of Oligarchs, impact of COVID? The swings are a bit old for impact of the Ukraine War.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/income-share-top-1-before-tax-wid

    Sorry I wasn't clear. The 25% was share of income tax paid, not share of income. Your figures look right to me and OWID is a great source.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,520
    edited September 2024

    Sounds very implausible - steels helmets rust and would collapse over time. Steel junk isn't a common component in roads.

    The scrap vault would have been higher.
    I just looked up the 1920s Pathe footage. I'm surmising this is perhaps where he got it from.

    So it looks genuine, albeit probably a cockup at the time.

    https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/118925/
  • eekeek Posts: 29,690

    Hasn't every prior Prime Minister going back decades accepted free tickets to sporting events? (Possibly excepting Truss on the grounds she wasn't around long enough.)
    Yep and it's the done thing - people expect the PM to be there at the Euro finals say and likewise the FA (or whoever) is happy to provide the seat for free.

    It's a complete none story - but I can see why the SKS haters on here love it so much...
  • eek said:

    I don't see anything wrong with suppliers providing the clothes for free provided there is a clear set of rules

    1) Must be a UK designer
    2) where used No 10 press office will provide a list of the clothes provided


    Remember there are significant benefits to a designer for just getting a dress on TV / media - the quid pro quo is simple, free clothes in return for some publicity ..
    I don’t like the idea of the PM being used for promotional purposes beyond the very generic (British cars etc)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Until the universal adoption of robot wars as the way to settle disputes...
    Well FPV drones seem to be the Ukranians’ favourite method at the moment.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,078

    My theory, so far, is that Hezbollah order a shipment or shipments of these, en masse. Hence the apparent identical make/model.

    Where the shipment was switched, in the supply chain, is anyones guess.

    One thing to consider is that making/modifying several thousand of these devices was an industrial operation, of its own.
    Question to ponder is what help the Taiwanese secret service might be getting in return?
  • https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/uniforms-work-clothing-and-tools

    (Nothing for generic smart clothing.)
    I know all that, I was a fireman... but it's only bit of tax relief. You can't buy new clothes and get the taxpayer to reimburse you.
  • TOPPING said:

    *That* Mark Almond?
    It could only happen if the iPhone had a soft cell.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,627

    Hasn't every prior Prime Minister going back decades accepted free tickets to sporting events? (Possibly excepting Truss on the grounds she wasn't around long enough.)

    EDIT: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/18/keir-starmer-100000-in-tickets-and-gifts-more-than-any-other-recent-party-leader has some figures. Yes, past party leader accepted similar freebies, but Starmer has accepted more. Crucially, PMs don't have to declare events that they are invited to as PM.
    Yeah you're right. But maybe one of those things where public perception changes and its good to be ahead of the curve?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,086
    MattW said:

    I just looked up the 1920s Pathe footage.

    So it looks genuine, albeit probably a cockup at the time.

    https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/118925/
    The video is genuine - but as the youtube narrator points out, looks like it was done at the depot for scrapping German equipment (see lots of German field guns), not on a road in Croydon.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,527
    eek said:

    Yep and it's the done thing - people expect the PM to be there at the Euro finals say and likewise the FA (or whoever) is happy to provide the seat for free.

    It's a complete none story - but I can see why the SKS haters on here love it so much...
    Starmer seems to go to every Arsenal match he can.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    eek said:

    Also exactly what part of an iPhone could you remove to add some explosives in a way that isn't obvious. It's not like there is any spare space in there except possibly the battery and if the battery was reduced the seriously reduced battery life would be obvious.
    Indeed, not to mention the rather large amount of security in Apple’s supply chain. Right now there’s new iPhones being transported on 747 freighters chartered specifically for the purpose, accompanied by Apple’s own security peeps.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,520

    The video is genuine - but as the youtube narrator points out, looks like it was done at the depot for scrapping German equipment (see lots of German field guns), not on a road in Croydon.
    Yep - the one thing I can't spot is the Purley Way reference.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    The issue is the time and space to do it (o think someone said 500 hours). Easiest to do that before it leaves the factory
    If it takes one man 10 minutes to modify one device, then it takes 500 man-hours (30,000 minutes) to modify 3,000 of them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,436

    Makes one wonder how and why the Israelis made such a bog of defending their southern border last October.
    Especially given they ignored warnings from neighbours.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,597
    Nigelb said:

    The other point is that while tactically brilliant, what analysis I've seen says that it won't do much to affect Hezbollah's capability other than temporarily. And it's likely to presage a much more serious conflict (which is quite likely Netanyahu's intention).

    Whether that ends up being to Israel's benefit is questionable.
    I remember one poster on PB several weeks back predicting that there would be an all-out war between Israel and Hezbollah by now. Thankfully, that prediction was a poor one.

    It seems in both parties' interests to keep attacking the other on a limited scale, but to steer away from major conflict. This has the obvious danger of one or both sides miscalculating and the situation escalating.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,086
    IanB2 said:

    Question to ponder is what help the Taiwanese secret service might be getting in return?
    Maybe the Israeli's ordered the custom pager design "Batman Begins" style*. That is, the pager without the explosive battery, but with the modified circuit board. Then they order explosive filled batteries from somewhere else.

    *In the film, Bruce Wayne and Lucius Fox order nondestript parts for his equipment from various Chinese companies, then assemble them.
  • There are lots of jobs where you need to look smart or are required to dress to a code. Do they get an allowance from their employer?
    Starmer is in the wrong here.
    The only example I know of is for broadcast meteorologists, who receive a clothing allowance for clothes in which to present the weather forecast. Although there's one RTÉ forecaster who doesn't demonstrate any evidence of using the allowance.

    Definite suspicion that some of the others are using the allowance to dress themselves for cocktail parties after their broadcast duties are complete, but I think that's an acceptable perk of the job.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,520
    rkrkrk said:

    Yeah you're right. But maybe one of those things where public perception changes and its good to be ahead of the curve?
    At this stage afaics we don't a public opinion change; we just have some astroturfing from a couple of newspapers trying to stir the pot.

    That's not to say it won't change, of course.
  • eek said:

    Yep and it's the done thing - people expect
    the PM to be there at the Euro finals say
    and likewise the FA (or whoever) is happy to
    provide the seat for free.

    It's a complete none story - but I can see
    why the SKS haters on here love it so
    much...
    Can you really not see the difference between (a) the PM attending the Euro finals in his official capacity; and (b) an Arsenal fan who happens to be PM going to a series of home matches ?

  • Starmer seems to go to every Arsenal match he can.
    ..well someone has to do it...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,527

    ..well someone has to do it...
    Not when the taxpayer's paying for it, though!
  • Sandpit said:

    If it takes one man 10 minutes to modify
    one device, then it takes 500 man-hours (30,000 minutes) to modify 3,000 of them.
    I wasn’t questioning the maths - it’s plausible. Just saying it’s not easy to pull something out of the shipping channel and, presumably, hard to do once landed in Iran or Syria. So Taiwan by process of elimination
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,485
    edited September 2024

    Not sure this was on Davey's agenda

    BBC News - Sexual assault arrest at Lib Dem conference
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd98n073lgdo

    From what I have heard of all the party conferences I am surprised this isn't more commonplace. Events where a large number of people party and get drunk, away from home then I am sure a number of advances are made that are inappropriate and go very badly wrong. A slapped face was and probably still is the response in most cases, although if it is really inappropriate, a serial offender, or there is a power difference between the two parties (eg Chris Rennard) that is rather more serious.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,279
    edited September 2024

    <

    Sounds very implausible - steels helmets rust and would collapse over time. Steel junk isn't a common component in roads.

    The scrap vault would have been higher. The video of steamrollering helmets makes more sense as increasing the density for shipping to a steel works for recycling.

    The paths around the Qaws an-Nasr in Baghdad are paved with Iranian helmets, replete with holes from the bullets and shrapnel that wasted their previous owners. MattW would do his fucking nut.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 2,010

    They had no definite way of ensuring a pager wasn't in the hands of an innocent person when it exploded, or if a Hezbollah fighter had his baby in his arms, or what sort of collateral damage the explosion might trigger.
    I just can't condone that.
    No army can 100% know that there won't be collateral damage to its actions, only mitigate the risk, especially when it's fighting an enemy that deliberately embeds itself in the civilian population. The question under international law is, can the risk (sometimes high to certain) be justified as proportional to the aims? If an army or terror group are using civilians as cover for attacks, then that is very much their war crime - not the response.

    As Hezbollah has been endlessly firing rockets at Israel, themselves killing innocent people, and threatening worse, there's clearly an argument that it is proportionate - especially when you consider that the alternative means of inflicting this much damage on Hezbollah would likely be far more devastating to civilians.

    At times it seems lots of people are determined to condemn Israel for existing and fighting back against enemies who wish to destroy it - and have little concern about the blood spilt doing so among their own people - whatever they do.

    Find a way to specifically target Hezbollah members - outrage. Conduct missile strikes to hit Hezbollah - also outrage. Ground invasion - also outrage. Just what is it Israel is supposed to do? Sit back and accept rockets raining down on its northern cities and towns permanently?

    For example we practically levelled Mosul to destroy ISIS, killing thousands of civilians - but there were few complaints as it was generally understood that the threat of ISIS remaining in Iraq and potentially recovering to carry out its atrocities was so great that it had to be done, despite the cost in civilian life.

    You'd add that if a Hezbollah fighter has his baby in his arms and they are harmed, that's very much on him for being a Hezbollah fighter. You don't get to be a terrorist target innocent people with your attacks, go back to your family and cry because targeting you might put your own family at risk. You chose to be a terrorist. Those are the consequences.
  • Might be total tripe since gleaned from glances at twitter, but some suggestions that the pagers were supplied via Hungary and the explosive was injected into them there, and that software was installed to exploit a hardware glitch that allowed the batteries to heat sufficiently to detonate the explosive remotely
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459
    eek said:

    Also exactly what part of an iPhone could you remove to add some explosives in a way that isn't obvious. It's not like there is any spare space in there except possibly the battery and if the battery was reduced the seriously reduced battery life would be obvious.
    There's certainly very little spare space in modern smartphones.
    Though I've seen some speculation that it might be possible to use a very small amount of explosive within the battery, as an accelerator, to ignite the battery, possibly explosively.
    That would probably need the cooperation of the battery manufacturer, though. (Some iPhone batteries are made in China, I think?)
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 727
    edited September 2024

    Not when the taxpayer's paying for it, though!
    I don't know if it has been mentioned but Lady Victoria Sponger is trending on Twitter/X.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,597
    rkrkrk said:

    Yeah you're right. But maybe one of those things where public perception changes and its good to be ahead of the curve?
    I am not worried about Starmer being invited to a Taylor Swift concert. I don't think this will bias how he governs the country. I am more worried by things like the fast-track COVID contract fraud.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459
    IanB2 said:

    Question to ponder is what help the Taiwanese secret service might be getting in return?
    The Taiwanese manufacturer claims the pagers were made by a European outfit who licensed the design and IP.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,854

    Hasn't every prior Prime Minister going back decades accepted free tickets to sporting events? (Possibly excepting Truss on the grounds she wasn't around long enough.)

    EDIT: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/18/keir-starmer-100000-in-tickets-and-gifts-more-than-any-other-recent-party-leader has some figures. Yes, past party leader accepted similar freebies, but Starmer has accepted more. Crucially, PMs don't have to declare events that they are invited to as PM.
    This particular story is about accepting gifts as a Leader of the Opposition. Gift rules are much tighter for ministers. Starmer is unusual amongst recent prime ministers for having a long period as non minister prior to being PM. The only other one is David Cameron.

    It does seem a lot of gifts though.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,527
    Nigelb said:

    The Taiwanese manufacturer claims the pagers were made by a European outfit who licensed the design and IP.
    Well, they would, wouldn't they!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,716
    edited September 2024
    IanB2 said:

    Question to ponder is what help the Taiwanese secret service might be getting in return?



     .
  • kjh said:

    From what I have heard of all the party conferences I am surprised this isn't more commonplace. Events where a large number of people party and get drunk, away from home then I am sure a number of advances are made that are inappropriate and go very badly wrong. A slapped face was and probably still is the response in most cases, although if it is really inappropriate, a serial offender, or there is a power difference between the two parties (eg Chris Rennard) that is rather more serious.
    Has anyone heard from @RochdalePioneers today?

    😈
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459

    I remember one poster on PB several weeks back predicting that there would be an all-out war between Israel and Hezbollah by now. Thankfully, that prediction was a poor one.

    It seems in both parties' interests to keep attacking the other on a limited scale, but to steer away from major conflict. This has the obvious danger of one or both sides miscalculating and the situation escalating.
    That was my point; this quite likely ends that unspoken agreement.

    The issue isn't really 'was the fairly low level of collateral damage worth it', so much as whether or not the operation's objectives were worth the escalation.
    Of course, it's at least reasonably likely that escalation was one of the objectives.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,943

    Starmer seems to go to every Arsenal match he can.
    I would expect any PM to be an Arsenal fan and go to matches because he wants to. I would expect the PM usually to pay his way, like people on minimum wage have to, and the state to pick up a massive bill for the security costs of him being there.

    He might learn a lot if he joined, for example, the Carlisle United away crowd on the journey, the match, and the return when playing Gillingham on a wet Tuesday night in January.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,186
    Selebian said:

    It's a long time ago - some might even say 'a generation' :wink: - so could definitely be revisited. But actually organising a fair vote would, from now, take some time. So it's the best we have for now.

    I mean, if there was going to be a referendum in the future, you'd need a period of stability, possibly under neither Russian nor Ukrainian control (as either would likely tend to discourage residents identifying with the other from staying/returning and raise questions about any vote). It's definitely suboptimal, but it's a consequence of the fighting and subsequent more formalised invasion. The route to a free referendum was not - and could not - be paved with Russian tanks.
    Was wondering for a sec why there were Russian tanks in Scotland
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459

    Well, they would, wouldn't they!
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9qvl3vlvlvo
    ...Caught in the crisis, Taiwanese firm Gold Apollo's founder Hsu Ching-Kuang flatly denied his company had anything to do with the attacks.

    Instead, Mr Hsu has said he licensed his trade mark to a company in Hungary called BAC Consulting to use the Gold Apollo name on their own pagers. BBC attempts to contact BAC have so far been unsuccessful.

    “You look at the pictures from Lebanon,” Mr Hsu told reporters outside his firm's offices on Wednesday. "They don’t have any mark saying Made in Taiwan on them, we did not make those pagers!”..

    ...Mr Hsu said it was pagers made by BAC Consulting that were used in the Lebanon attacks. He told reporters that his company had signed an agreement with BAC Consulting three years ago.

    The money transfers from BAC had been "very strange", he added. There had been problems with the payments, which had come through the Middle East, he told reporters, but he did not go into detail.

    Initially, he said, BAC wanted to buy pagers from Gold Apollo to sell in Europe. But after about a year they came up with a new plan to make their own pagers and licensed Gold Apollo's name.

    "We only provide brand trademark authorisation and have no involvement in the design or manufacturing of this product,” a statement from Gold Apollo said.

    But the fact there is now a team from the Taipei investigation bureau inside his office – with large numbers of carboard boxes - suggests the Taiwanese authorities are not entirely reassured...
  • I remember one poster on PB several weeks back predicting that there would be an all-out war between Israel and Hezbollah by now. Thankfully, that prediction was a poor one.

    It seems in both parties' interests to keep attacking the other on a limited scale, but to steer away from major conflict. This has the obvious danger of one or both sides miscalculating and the situation escalating.
    Some of the external parties have the same incentive. Russia and China both want enough to be catching fire in the Middle East to keep the US busy there, but not so much that they seriously damage trade.
  • Can't remember who was looking for old comments, but this might help

    Go to the user's comment page and add ?Page=p2 to the url, like

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/profile/comments/BlancheLivermore?Page=p2

    And change the number at the end to get the page of comments you want to see
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,527
    algarkirk said:

    I would expect any PM to be an Arsenal fan and go to matches because he wants to. I would expect the PM usually to pay his way, like people on minimum wage have to, and the state to pick up a massive bill for the security costs of him being there.

    He might learn a lot if he joined, for example, the Carlisle United away crowd on the journey, the match, and the return when playing Gillingham on a wet Tuesday night in January.
    They'd notice someone new.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Hasn't every prior Prime Minister going back decades accepted free tickets to sporting events? (Possibly excepting Truss on the grounds she wasn't around long enough.)

    EDIT: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/18/keir-starmer-100000-in-tickets-and-gifts-more-than-any-other-recent-party-leader has some figures. Yes, past party leader accepted similar freebies, but Starmer has accepted more. Crucially, PMs don't have to declare events that they are invited to as PM.
    To give an example of one sport I know, the Sports Minister doesn’t have to declare a ticket to the British Grand Prix, because they are there in an official capacity and will present a trophy to the winner at the podium ceremony after the race.

    Some other random minister or MP, who accepts a £10k Paddock Club ticket for the weekend, either from F1 or another company, but isn’t involved in an official capacity at the event itself, has to declare the hospitality.

    The PM attending sporting events and concerts at Wembley, as guest of the FA, needs to be declared unless he’s actually involved in proceedings at the event, and not just there to enjoy themselves.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,582
    algarkirk said:

    I would expect any PM to be an Arsenal fan and go to matches because he wants to. I would expect the PM usually to pay his way, like people on minimum wage have to, and the state to pick up a massive bill for the security costs of him being there.

    He might learn a lot if he joined, for example, the Carlisle United away crowd on the journey, the match, and the return when playing Gillingham on a wet Tuesday night in January.
    On this I rather feel sorry for Starmer. He will need his security team around him, as a sad fact of modern life. How then does he get to watch Arsenal? In his season ticketed seat? Logistics seem to mitigate against that. So the club steps in and he gets 'free' hospitality. And then is portrayed in a negative light for wanting to engage in his hobby of watching Arsenal.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,007
    edited September 2024

    I am not worried about Starmer being invited to a Taylor Swift concert. I don't think this will bias how he governs the country. I am more worried by things like the fast-track COVID contract fraud.
    Starmer has accepted £100,000 for clothes, glasses, football and concert tickets from a fellow millionaire whilst claiming he will be different and rejects sleaze and cronyism

    It is unacceptable and hypocritical of him, and frankly where is his pride as so much more was expected of him and now the great British public reject his freebies by 62% to 13%

    I am also very surprised as an Arsenal supporters he hasn't been a season ticket holder for years - after all I am not a millionaire but I had a Manchester United season ticket for decades
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,086
    CatMan said:

    Was wondering for a sec why there were Russian tanks in Scotland
    That’s @HYUFD in his Covenanter
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    MattW said:

    IFS say 29% not 60%. in March this year That's higher than I expected, though - I had a number of ~27% in my head.

    Someone just about in the top 1 per cent of income tax payers, on £200,000, say, will be paying a good £10,000 a year more than in 2009. Our reliance on top earners has continued to grow. That top 1 per cent pay 29 per cent of all income tax now, up from 25 per cent in 2010 and 21 per cent at the turn of the century. Whisper it quietly, but this Tory government has taken a serious chunk out of the incomes of the 1 per cent.
    https://ifs.org.uk/articles/how-tax-burden-high-when-most-us-are-taxed-so-low
    Perhaps I stand corrected then. Thanks.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,083

    On this I rather feel sorry for Starmer. He will need his security team around him, as a sad fact of modern life. How then does he get to watch Arsenal? In his season ticketed seat? Logistics seem to mitigate against that. So the club steps in and he gets 'free' hospitality. And then is portrayed in a negative light for wanting to engage in his hobby of watching Arsenal.
    Why feel sorry for him? It’s not like he’s PM for life, he can choose not to watch his team for a while - like many have to if it’s a toss up between finances, family plans etc.

    Ah poor Keir, can’t watch his football team because he’s PM.

    Honestly - why can’t people now accept you make choices and sacrifices. Don’t fucking bleat about being papped if you decide to make your living from being famous. Likewise if you choose to try and be PM don’t complain about the intrusion into your family life or not being able to do something like watch Arsenal (again, loads of people can’t watch them who love them).

    You sacrifice these things for attaining the highest elected power in the land. The chance to drive the country in a direction you believe in. To meet other heads of states, intervene in world affairs. Make shitloads of money afterwards.

    There should be no sympathy. He chose it. Get a loan and buy clothes as it will be wiped with your first speech after retiring as PM.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,078

    I wasn’t questioning the maths - it’s plausible. Just saying it’s not easy to pull something out of the shipping channel and, presumably, hard to do once landed in Iran or Syria. So Taiwan by process of elimination
    Also, I believe it’s 5,000 - creating a more plausibly casualty rate, as a decent number of them must have been lying about on tables or in pockets hanging up somewhere.

    A minor detail of the reporting suggested the pagers received the message and had been coded to bleep a few times before they went off - presumably so the user would go get it - but that video from the Lebanese market, if genuine, contains no sign of it - the explosion comes out of the blue.
  • Train drivers accept pay offer

    I bet they do until the next time
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,653
    The dutch migration minister has asked the EU for an opt-out from the common EU asylum policy:

    https://x.com/MinisterAenM/status/1836299969986199800
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459

    Train drivers accept pay offer

    I bet they do until the next time

    Isn't that how it works for everyone ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,436

    Train drivers accept pay offer

    I bet they do until the next time

    Same as the Junior Doctors and all the others this govt just capitulated to without getting any concessions.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,436

    Starmer has accepted £100,000 for clothes, glasses, football and concert tickets from a fellow millionaire whilst claiming he will be different and rejects sleaze and cronyism

    It is unacceptable and hypocritical of him, and frankly where is his pride as so much more was expected of him and now the great British public reject his freebies by 62% to 13%

    I am also very surprised as an Arsenal supporters he hasn't been a season ticket holder for years - after all I am not a millionaire but I had a Manchester United season ticket for decades
    He's a keen, devoted, passionate die hard Arsenal fan.

    Isn't there a waiting list for season tickets. He is probably on that ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459
    Pennsylvania GOP state senator calling out more lies about Haitians.

    https://x.com/CameraForSenate/status/1836135759474233415
    This is not true. The business owner provides transportation for workers to get to & from his facility. These are not immigrants being bussed in by Kamala. I follow you & repost but you are playing into the hands of people who are jeopardizing the safety of innocent children in our local school. These Haitians are working hard, sending their children to school and opening businesses. They are here legally. They did not cross our border. Many are professionals who escaped horrific conditions in their home country. There was no workforce in Charleroi a few years ago when a business owner desperately needed them. He advertised and looked for workers for a long time. Before shutting down completely, he hired an agency that connected immigrants who were vetted and LEGAL to work in his facility. Instead of closing, he now has three shifts working around the clock. He also renovated multiple dilapidated apartment buildings and put them back on the tax roll for the town. He’s been vilified wrongly. Please, check the facts before posting information the jeopardizes the safety of good, hard-working people. Thank you...
  • Taz said:

    Same as the Junior Doctors and all the others this govt just capitulated to without getting any concessions.
    And leaving Granny to shiver in the cold
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,561
    edited September 2024

    And leaving Granny to shiver in the cold
    Granny’s had big increases in her pension over the last few years, granny should stop moaning.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,854
    Nigelb said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9qvl3vlvlvo
    ...Caught in the crisis, Taiwanese firm Gold Apollo's founder Hsu Ching-Kuang flatly denied his company had anything to do with the attacks.

    Instead, Mr Hsu has said he licensed his trade mark to a company in Hungary called BAC Consulting to use the Gold Apollo name on their own pagers. BBC attempts to contact BAC have so far been unsuccessful.

    “You look at the pictures from Lebanon,” Mr Hsu told reporters outside his firm's offices on Wednesday. "They don’t have any mark saying Made in Taiwan on them, we did not make those pagers!”..

    ...Mr Hsu said it was pagers made by BAC Consulting that were used in the Lebanon attacks. He told reporters that his company had signed an agreement with BAC Consulting three years ago.

    The money transfers from BAC had been "very strange", he added. There had been problems with the payments, which had come through the Middle East, he told reporters, but he did not go into detail.

    Initially, he said, BAC wanted to buy pagers from Gold Apollo to sell in Europe. But after about a year they came up with a new plan to make their own pagers and licensed Gold Apollo's name.

    "We only provide brand trademark authorisation and have no involvement in the design or manufacturing of this product,” a statement from Gold Apollo said.

    But the fact there is now a team from the Taipei investigation bureau inside his office – with large numbers of carboard boxes - suggests the Taiwanese authorities are not entirely reassured...
    My reading is the Gold Apollo CEO probably is telling the truth but there were massive red flags he chose to ignore. Presumably it was important to the Israeli security services that the pagers should be branded Taiwanese to avoid Hezbollah having any suspicions.
  • Starmer has accepted £100,000 for clothes, glasses, football and concert tickets from a fellow millionaire whilst claiming he will be different and rejects sleaze and cronyism

    It is unacceptable and hypocritical of him, and frankly where is his pride as so much more was expected of him and now the great British public reject his freebies by 62% to 13%

    I am also very surprised as an Arsenal supporters he hasn't been a season ticket holder for years - after all I am not a millionaire but I had a Manchester United season ticket for decades
    He is an Arsenal season ticket holder for years.

    The issue is he cannot use his normal seat because of the plethora of armed coppers that travel with him.
  • Taz said:

    He's a keen, devoted, passionate die hard Arsenal fan.

    Isn't there a waiting list for season tickets. He is probably on that ?
    I started supporting Man Utd in 1953 and when I moved to North Wales in 1965 I bought a season ticket which I only relinquished a few years ago as I tired of the driving to the matches
  • Nigelb said:

    Pennsylvania GOP state senator calling out more lies about Haitians.

    https://x.com/CameraForSenate/status/1836135759474233415
    This is not true. The business owner provides transportation for workers to get to & from his facility. These are not immigrants being bussed in by Kamala. I follow you & repost but you are playing into the hands of people who are jeopardizing the safety of innocent children in our local school. These Haitians are working hard, sending their children to school and opening businesses. They are here legally. They did not cross our border. Many are professionals who escaped horrific conditions in their home country. There was no workforce in Charleroi a few years ago when a business owner desperately needed them. He advertised and looked for workers for a long time. Before shutting down completely, he hired an agency that connected immigrants who were vetted and LEGAL to work in his facility. Instead of closing, he now has three shifts working around the clock. He also renovated multiple dilapidated apartment buildings and put them back on the tax roll for the town. He’s been vilified wrongly. Please, check the facts before posting information the jeopardizes the safety of good, hard-working people. Thank you...

    If Trump loses what are the odds the GOP will spend the next four years tearing itself apart in recrimination and despair?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459
    The 'dark side' of the Moon is pretty boring.
    We got lucky with the view for the last few billion years.

    This photograph shows us the other side of the Moon, which we usually do not see. It was captured by the Chinese Chang'e 5-T1 spacecraft.
    https://x.com/MAstronomers/status/1836071363846746267
  • He is an Arsenal season ticket holder for years.

    The issue is he cannot use his normal seat because of the plethora of armed coppers that travel with him.
    That is understandable but when you become PM you have to adjust to the demands of Office
  • Jeremy Vine thinks pager beeps - user responds in some way - 17 seconds later it explodes

    Might bring it closer to definition of booby trap
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,597
    Nigelb said:

    The 'dark side' of the Moon is pretty boring.
    We got lucky with the view for the last few billion years.

    This photograph shows us the other side of the Moon, which we usually do not see. It was captured by the Chinese Chang'e 5-T1 spacecraft.
    https://x.com/MAstronomers/status/1836071363846746267

    How then do you explain the record high sales of Pink Floyd’s The Dark Side of the Moon, hmmm?

  • On this I rather feel sorry for Starmer. He will need his security team around him, as a sad fact of modern life. How then does he get to watch Arsenal? In his season ticketed seat? Logistics seem to mitigate against that. So the club steps in and he gets 'free' hospitality. And then is portrayed in a negative light for wanting to engage in his hobby of watching Arsenal.
    Or arsenal moves seats around to make space for the security team and the state pays the cost of those seats
  • Does anyone have any high quality canned soup recommendations?

    I've decided on canned soup as my best form of hot sustenance during my upcoming walk through the wilds of Wessex

    I've bought a couple of little camping gas cannisters with an attachment to make them a gas 'hob'

    Heating up soup in cans mean I can save my mess tin for boiling water for coffee in the mornings

    I'm definitely getting a tin or two of Baxters Cullen Skink, it's £3.90 in Waitrose

    https://shop.baxters.com/products/cullen-skink
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,007
    edited September 2024

    Granny’s had big increases in her pension over the last few years, granny should stop moaning.
    This highlights the problem that the idea grannies are well served with the pension increases is far away from the real lives of pensioners just above the threshold and is incentive to their plight

    Yes 25% of pensioners do not need the WFA but many millions more do as we will see this winter
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    edited September 2024
    Sandpit said:

    To give an example of one sport I know, the Sports Minister doesn’t have to declare a ticket to the British Grand Prix, because they are there in an official capacity and will present a trophy to the winner at the podium ceremony after the race.

    Some other random minister or MP, who accepts a £10k Paddock Club ticket for the weekend, either from F1 or another company, but isn’t involved in an official capacity at the event itself, has to declare the hospitality.

    The PM attending sporting events and concerts at Wembley, as guest of the FA, needs to be declared unless he’s actually involved in proceedings at the event, and not just there to enjoy themselves.
    Am I the only one on PB that thinks this is all confected outrage, the tickets and the frocks?

    Sir Keir gets free tickets for Arsenal from Arsenal FC. These are not at taxpayers' expense. So what? Ditto Taylor Swift gigs.

    Lady Vic gets free frocks (which she wears in her public capacity as first lady) from a longstanding Labour donor who would otherwise sink that money into Labour's general coffers. These frocks are not at taxpayers' expense. Again, so what?

    It is true that Sir Keir declared the latter late, but he did declare them and – and this is a key point that seems to have been lost – did so before any media interest, once he realised that they should have been declared.

    It's just a more glamorous version of Donkeygate. A whole load of wup.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,597

    This highlights the problem that the idea grannies are well served with the pension increases is far away from the real lives of pensioners just above the thresaehold and is incentive to their plight

    Yes 25% of pensioners do not need the WFA but many millions more do as we will see this winter
    I’m not convinced that 75% of pensioners need WFA.
  • MJW said:

    No army can 100% know that there won't be collateral damage to its actions, only mitigate the risk, especially when it's fighting an enemy that deliberately embeds itself in the civilian population. The question under international law is, can the risk (sometimes high to certain) be justified as proportional to the aims? If an army or terror group are using civilians as cover for attacks, then that is very much their war crime - not the response.

    As Hezbollah has been endlessly firing rockets at Israel, themselves killing innocent people, and threatening worse, there's clearly an argument that it is proportionate - especially when you consider that the alternative means of inflicting this much damage on Hezbollah would likely be far more devastating to civilians.

    At times it seems lots of people are determined to condemn Israel for existing and fighting back against enemies who wish to destroy it - and have little concern about the blood spilt doing so among their own people - whatever they do.

    Find a way to specifically target Hezbollah members - outrage. Conduct missile strikes to hit Hezbollah - also outrage. Ground invasion - also outrage. Just what is it Israel is supposed to do? Sit back and accept rockets raining down on its northern cities and towns permanently?

    For example we practically levelled Mosul to destroy ISIS, killing thousands of civilians - but there were few complaints as it was generally understood that the threat of ISIS remaining in Iraq and potentially recovering to carry out its atrocities was so great that it had to be done, despite the cost in civilian life.

    You'd add that if a Hezbollah fighter has his baby in his arms and they are harmed, that's very much on him for being a Hezbollah fighter. You don't get to be a terrorist target innocent people with your attacks, go back to your family and cry because targeting you might put your own family at risk. You chose to be a terrorist. Those are the consequences.
    Israel has a right to defend itself and Hezbollah are horrible shits, but imagine the pager is on a table in a cafe, and maims a kid that is a total stranger to the Hezbollah fella. The kids parents are not terrorists.
    Israel had no definite way of knowing that it would only kill and maim wrong 'uns or their dependants.
    Would you be happy with the UK using such tactics?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,780

    I’m not convinced that 75% of pensioners need WFA.
    Im not convinced 100% of the PMs wives need a £19,000 dress allowance.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459
    JD Vance got a former professor to delete a blog post Vance wrote in 2012 attacking GOP over anti-immigrant rhetoric

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/17/politics/jd-vance-delete-2012-blog-post-attacking-gop-anti-immigrant-rhetoric/index.html
    A week after President Barack Obama won reelection in November 2012, JD Vance, then a law student at Yale, wrote a scathing rebuke of the Republican Party’s stance on migrants and minorities, criticizing it for being “openly hostile to non-whites” and for alienating “Blacks, Latinos, [and] the youth.”

    Four years later, as Vance considered a career in GOP politics, he asked a former college professor to delete the article. That professor, Brad Nelson, taught Vance at Ohio State University while Vance was an undergraduate student. After Vance graduated, Nelson asked him to contribute to a blog he ran for the non-partisan Center for World Conflict and Peace.

    Nelson told CNN that during the 2016 Republican primary he agreed to delete the article at Vance’s request, so that Vance might have an easier time getting a job in Republican politics. However, the article, titled “A Blueprint for the GOP,” remains viewable on the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine.

    “A significant part of Republican immigration policy centers on the possibility of deporting 12 million people (or ‘self-deporting’ them),” Vance wrote. “Think about it: we conservatives (rightly) mistrust the government to efficiently administer business loans and regulate our food supply, yet we allegedly believe that it can deport millions of unregistered aliens. The notion fails to pass the laugh test. The same can be said for too much of the party’s platform.”..
  • I’m not convinced that 75% of pensioners need WFA.
    The 25% is the suggested number of millionaire pensioners and I did not say 75% needed the WFA but many millions do

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,582
    Nigelb said:

    The 'dark side' of the Moon is pretty boring.
    We got lucky with the view for the last few billion years.

    This photograph shows us the other side of the Moon, which we usually do not see. It was captured by the Chinese Chang'e 5-T1 spacecraft.
    https://x.com/MAstronomers/status/1836071363846746267

    I don't know, it looks rather beautiful. Although if Dr Who is right, when the egg hatches we'll get a new moon to gawp at.
  • Granny’s had big increases in her pension over the last few years, granny should stop moaning.
    May be the PM can lend her some warm clothes?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,582

    Israel has a right to defend itself and Hezbollah are horrible shits, but imagine the pager is on a table in a cafe, and maims a kid that is a total stranger to the Hezbollah fella. The kids parents are not terrorists.
    Israel had no definite way of knowing that it would only kill and maim wrong 'uns or their dependants.
    Would you be happy with the UK using such tactics?
    All good points.

    How are Hezbollah stopping their rockets from hitting non combatants again?

    The best solution would be for them all to grow the feck up and start talking and not fighting.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,083

    Does anyone have any high quality canned soup recommendations?

    I've decided on canned soup as my best form of hot sustenance during my upcoming walk through the wilds of Wessex

    I've bought a couple of little camping gas cannisters with an attachment to make them a gas 'hob'

    Heating up soup in cans mean I can save my mess tin for boiling water for coffee in the mornings

    I'm definitely getting a tin or two of Baxters Cullen Skink, it's £3.90 in Waitrose

    https://shop.baxters.com/products/cullen-skink

    You don’t want to cook the soup in the can - cans now usually have lining which releases bad things in direct heat.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,780

    Am I the only one on PB that thinks this is all confected outrage, the tickets and the frocks?

    Sir Keir gets free tickets for Arsenal from Arsenal FC. These are not at the taxpayers' expense. So what? Ditto Taylor Swift gigs.

    Lady Vic gets free frocks (which she wears in her public capacity as first lady) from a longstanding Labour donor who would otherwise sink that money into Labour's general coffers. These frocks are not at the taxpayers' expense. Again, so what?

    It is true that Sir Keir declared the latter late, but he did declare them and – and this is a key point that seems to have been lost – did so before any media interest, once he realised that they should have been declared.

    It's just a more glamorous version of Donkeygate. A whole load of wup.
    Mandy Rice Davies springs to mind
  • Nigelb said:

    The 'dark side' of the Moon is pretty boring.
    We got lucky with the view for the last few billion years.

    This photograph shows us the other side of the Moon, which we usually do not see. It was captured by the Chinese Chang'e 5-T1 spacecraft.
    https://x.com/MAstronomers/status/1836071363846746267

    As a matter of fact it's all dark.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,597

    Im not convinced 100% of the PMs wives need a £19,000 dress allowance.
    The £19k wasn’t public money, so what’s that got to do with WFA?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,431

    I think it was supposed to be buried underground, or otherwise hard to explode. The Irish Sun describes the ammunition depot as reputedly indestructible.

    Dare I say that it would be a perfect Storm Shadow target, though it seems to be twice as far from the Ukrainian border as the maximum Storm Shadow range.
    The range of Ukrainian drones seems to have caught Russia flat-footed. When their airfields in Murmansk are being targeted, I imagine Putin is questioning the lack of briefings on how this was A Thing.

    Saw an interesting thread recently about how the lack of oil storage capacity (as a result of stuff-go-boom) means Russia is having to close down large numbers of oil wells. Last time this happened was at the fall of the Soviet Union. Some of those wells and pipelines took many years to get back up and running - and required much Western cash and expertise.

    The Russian winter is about to screw over their hydrocarbon industry again. Pipelines freeze up - and become candles dozens or hundreds of miles long. If there is one thing that will drag Russia to the negotiating table, it is the wholesale destruction of their hydrocarbons industry west of the Urals. Their infrastructure can't be moved - and it seems, nor can it be protected from air attacks with cheap and cheerful drones. The Ukrainians may be holding back until November 5th and the US election, for (Biden) fear of gas prices wrecking the Democrats' chances of winning. But shortly after that, expect everything that looks like a refinery or processing centre or distribution hub to be hit in one night.
  • All good points.

    How are Hezbollah stopping their rockets from hitting non combatants again?

    The best solution would be for them all to grow the feck up and start talking and not fighting.
    Agreed.
  • Am I the only one on PB that thinks this is all confected outrage, the tickets and the frocks?

    Sir Keir gets free tickets for Arsenal from Arsenal FC. These are not at the taxpayers' expense. So what? Ditto Taylor Swift gigs.

    Lady Vic gets free frocks (which she wears in her public capacity as first lady) from a longstanding Labour donor who would otherwise sink that money into Labour's general coffers. These frocks are not at the taxpayers' expense. Again, so what?

    It is true that Sir Keir declared the latter late, but he did declare them and – and this is a key point that seems to have been lost – did so before any media interest, once he realised that they should have been declared.

    It's just a more glamorous version of Donkeygate. A whole load of wup.
    It is indefensible for Statmer to receive £100,000 from a fellow millionaire to dress him and his wife and lots of other freebies but as I said previously the great British public reject his largesse by 62% to 13% so you are one of the 13%
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,943

    He is an Arsenal season ticket holder for years.

    The issue is he cannot use his normal seat because of the plethora of armed coppers that travel with him.
    Answer: Starmer pays for his ticket; Arsenal very kindly provide whatever is needed seat/position wise for security so saving the tax payer. Starmer's honour secured, Arsenal get good publicity. Another 1-0 home win for the Arsenal.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,780

    The £19k wasn’t public money, so what’s that got to do with WFA?
    We dont know if it is or not, What favours will the benefactor get in return ?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,953
    darkage said:

    I would guess they have assets/investments? I think @kyf_100 has been complaining about similar things.
    The CGT rates are what - 20% max after allowances for a higher rate tax payer?. In other european countries they are closer to 40%.
    If you have a gain of say £100k it is a significant difference.
    I could bore you about CGT ad infinitum, suffice to say

    1. It's a disincentive to investment. From a betting perspective, if you flip a coin for £10, you gain £10 if you win and lose your £10 if you make the wrong call. Add in CGT at 20% and it's a gain of £8 vs a loss of £10, so the risk/reward is skewed. Now consider CGT at 45%. Heads I win £5.50, tails I lose £10. This has real world effects on investment - I've already declined a six figure investment in a promising startup in anticipation of a 45% rate, because the risk/reward is too unbalanced.

    2. Around 50% of disposals are for £5m or more, meaning most will be clobbered by a 45% rate. Let's say you have a gain of £2m. You might not want to take the kids out of school or quit your day job to avoid the current £400k tax bill. But at 45% you could fly to Dubai, dispose of the asset, and pay 0%. Meaning you could spend 200k a year for the next 5 years without working and still be up on paying tax in the UK.

    3. The rich already pay into the Uk coffers disproportionately, it's oft cited that the top 1% of taxpayers account for ~27% of all treasury income. They get little for it, and we live in a globalised market for talent now. I've worked abroad twice in my lifetime and would do so again. Add in the fact that many working in London and our top industries were born elsewhere, have an EU passport, or are married to a non UK citizen and the whole 'stay and pay your taxes in 'your' country' argument gets very thin very quickly.

    A 45% CGT rate would be one of the highest in the entire world, and would lead to a dramatic reduction in investment as demonstrated by point (1), while encouraging the globally mobile rich to leave due to points (2) and (3), disproportionately affecting the treasury's coffers. HMRC themselves have said that raising the current CGT rates more than 5% (so from 20% to 25% or 24% to 29% for property) would be net negative to the exchequer.

    It's pure unalloyed madness from an economic perspective, and if Labour do it, it will be one of the greatest acts of economic self harm the country has ever witnessed. Even if you don't pay CGT yourself, the knock on effect in terms of reduced jobs in the economy, particularly in start ups and tech, will lead to a brain drain that the UK would take many, many years to recover from.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,431
    Nigelb said:

    The 'dark side' of the Moon is pretty boring.
    We got lucky with the view for the last few billion years.

    This photograph shows us the other side of the Moon, which we usually do not see. It was captured by the Chinese Chang'e 5-T1 spacecraft.
    https://x.com/MAstronomers/status/1836071363846746267

    Where the man go?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    He is an Arsenal season ticket holder for years.

    The issue is he cannot use his normal seat because of the plethora of armed coppers that travel with him.
    Quite so. G's was yet another low-information post. Similar to the odious Sarah Vine who suggested he should "just watch the games on telly like everyone else". I submit that she knows sweet FA about football and even less about proper football fans, you know, the people who actually attend matches.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,148
    TOPPING said:

    Not at all. Look at Nick's hesitancy to put forward his view on Russia/Ukraine. It is because of the reaction to anything dissenting posted about Russia/Ukraine on PB.
    That's true. I mean somebody may disagree with him and that would never do.
  • Does anyone have any high quality canned soup recommendations?

    I've decided on canned soup as my best form of hot sustenance during my upcoming walk through the wilds of Wessex

    I've bought a couple of little camping gas cannisters with an attachment to make them a gas 'hob'

    Heating up soup in cans mean I can save my mess tin for boiling water for coffee in the mornings

    I'm definitely getting a tin or two of Baxters Cullen Skink, it's £3.90 in Waitrose

    https://shop.baxters.com/products/cullen-skink

    Isn’t that a lot of extra weight?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    algarkirk said:

    Answer: Starmer pays for his ticket; Arsenal very kindly provide whatever is needed seat/position wise for security so saving the tax payer. Starmer's honour secured, Arsenal get good publicity. Another 1-0 home win for the Arsenal.
    It's almost certainly cheaper and easier for Arsenal just to give him a free hospitality pass for the matches, it a suite that is setup to accommodate his security detail, without the club's staff jumping through ludicrous logistical hoops every home game.
  • Am I the only one on PB that thinks this is all confected outrage, the tickets and the frocks?

    Sir Keir gets free tickets for Arsenal from Arsenal FC. These are not at taxpayers' expense. So what? Ditto Taylor Swift gigs.

    Lady Vic gets free frocks (which she wears in her public capacity as first lady) from a longstanding Labour donor who would otherwise sink that money into Labour's
    general coffers. These frocks are not at taxpayers' expense. Again, so what?

    It is true that Sir Keir declared the latter late, but he did declare them and – and this is a key point that seems to have been lost – did so before any media interest, once he realised that they should have been declared.

    It's just a more glamorous version of Donkeygate. A whole load of wup.
    And then the PM is asked to make a judgement call on whether the Super-Duper-Premier League including Arsenal is a good thing.

    The PM should not be taking money or favours from anyone. Big or small.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,690
    edited September 2024
    It seems Sue Grey is paid more than SKS is.

    Which to me tells me that we are not paying the Prime Minister enough...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx247wkq137o
  • Israel has a right to defend itself and
    Hezbollah are horrible shits, but imagine the
    pager is on a table in a cafe, and maims a
    kid that is a total stranger to the Hezbollah
    fella. The kids parents are not terrorists.

    Israel had no definite way of knowing that it
    would only kill and maim wrong 'uns or their
    dependants.

    Would you be happy with the UK using such
    tactics?
    Imagine a world in which terrorists are relaxed about the tools of their trade and leave them out in the open where any passing Mossad operative could grab it and have access to messages from the leadership of the organisation.


  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    It is indefensible for Statmer to receive £100,000 from a fellow millionaire to dress him and his wife and lots of other freebies but as I said previously the great British public reject his largesse by 62% to 13% so you are one of the 13%
    So what? I seek not to hold the common view, but the right one.

    The only rule he 'broke' was declaring Lady Vic's frocks late – but rectified this once he realised the error.

    The fact that Big G, the bloke on the internet, got out of bed the wrong side one morning and started clutching his pearls is irrelevant.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,007
    edited September 2024
    eek said:

    It seems Sue Grey is paid more than SKS is.

    Which to me tells me that we are not paying the Prime Minister enough...

    Point of order

    I think it is Sue Gray

    And yes the PM is not paid enough

    Indeed I would argue the PM and all mps should have a good pay rise but a ban on receiving any gifts
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,436
    eek said:

    It seems Sue Grey is paid more than SKS is.

    Which to me tells me that we are not paying the Prime Minister enough...

    I think you could say the same for our MP's too given their responsibilities.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,431

    Am I the only one on PB that thinks this is all confected outrage, the tickets and the frocks?

    Sir Keir gets free tickets for Arsenal from Arsenal FC. These are not at taxpayers' expense. So what? Ditto Taylor Swift gigs.

    Lady Vic gets free frocks (which she wears in her public capacity as first lady) from a longstanding Labour donor who would otherwise sink that money into Labour's general coffers. These frocks are not at taxpayers' expense. Again, so what?

    It is true that Sir Keir declared the latter late, but he did declare them and – and this is a key point that seems to have been lost – did so before any media interest, once he realised that they should have been declared.

    It's just a more glamorous version of Donkeygate. A whole load of wup.
    You weren't outraged at the confected outrage over Tory MPs supposedly betting on the date of the election (which Labour quietly forgot about when there was shown to be no wrong doing).

    You're in Government. If you can't be "whiter than white" - suck it up.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    The £19k wasn’t public money, so what’s that got to do with WFA?
    A key point which many PB Tories can't seem to grasp.

    Funny old world.
This discussion has been closed.