In Kemiworld tactical voting is dirty tricks – politicalbetting.com
In Kemiworld tactical voting is dirty tricks – politicalbetting.com
In today’s The Times supporters of Kemi Badenoch are whining that Tory MPs are voting tactically
Comments
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First, unlike Kemi? Surely not!0
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Bitchy hit piece from TSE for a Saturday morning.
Good morning PB.1 -
Which PB?GIN1138 said:Bitchy hit piece from TSE for a Saturday morning.
Good morning PB.0 -
The first version was much bitchier.GIN1138 said:Bitchy hit piece from TSE for a Saturday morning.
Good morning PB.
'It is so woke to complain about tactical voting. Kemi needs to stop being such a snowflake.'11 -
Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it2 -
Good morning, everyone.
Understanding tactical voting is important. It played a part in the Conservative woe at the recent election.
Slept rather terribly. Not sure this bodes well for the DC20 one shot I'm running this evening, but we shall see.0 -
I'm sure...TheScreamingEagles said:
The first version was much bitchier.GIN1138 said:Bitchy hit piece from TSE for a Saturday morning.
Good morning PB.0 -
I don’t know… comparing Kemi favourably to something that is white… that’s a bit woke isn’t it?TheScreamingEagles said:
The first version was much bitchier.GIN1138 said:Bitchy hit piece from TSE for a Saturday morning.
Good morning PB.
'It is so woke to complain about tactical voting. Kemi needs to stop being such a snowflake.'0 -
Some other observations.
If Jenrick really has enough supporters to lend some out and still come top, he's a shoe-in for the final round.
Which might be why Team Kemi now are portraying her as the mod(chortle)... the cent(giggle)... the less right wing option. I mean, that's insane, isn't it?
Finally, I can sort of see how boosting a beatable Cleverly at the expense of Badenoch is a race thing, but it's awfully subtle, and I suspect the subtleties will be lost on most. It doesn't sit well with the anti-woke thing.0 -
I think the race is so close, as the first round shows, that no candidate has enough spare votes to allow their supporters to indulge in tactical voting. I suspect MPs are actually just voting for the candidate they prefer, but where's the story in that?1
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Cheers up Big G.Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it
At this rate, there will be another Conservative leadership election soon.6 -
See, I did think about saying 'There's something about the night about Kemi Badenoch badmouthing James Cleverly because she's worrying about not making the final two'StillWaters said:
I don’t know… comparing Kemi favourably to something that is white… that’s a bit woke isn’t it?TheScreamingEagles said:
The first version was much bitchier.GIN1138 said:Bitchy hit piece from TSE for a Saturday morning.
Good morning PB.
'It is so woke to complain about tactical voting. Kemi needs to stop being such a snowflake.'0 -
Badenoch who famously would pick a fight with an empty room is picking one with her would-be voters.1
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Golly gosh, that would have been a shocking thing to writeTheScreamingEagles said:
See, I did think about saying 'There's something about the night about Kemi Badenoch badmouthing James Cleverly because she's worrying about not making the final two'StillWaters said:
I don’t know… comparing Kemi favourably to something that is white… that’s a bit woke isn’t it?TheScreamingEagles said:
The first version was much bitchier.GIN1138 said:Bitchy hit piece from TSE for a Saturday morning.
Good morning PB.
'It is so woke to complain about tactical voting. Kemi needs to stop being such a snowflake.'0 -
The thing for me that is truly shocking is that Ann Widdecombe made that comment about a Jewish man.StillWaters said:
Golly gosh, that would have been a shocking thing to writeTheScreamingEagles said:
See, I did think about saying 'There's something about the night about Kemi Badenoch badmouthing James Cleverly because she's worrying about not making the final two'StillWaters said:
I don’t know… comparing Kemi favourably to something that is white… that’s a bit woke isn’t it?TheScreamingEagles said:
The first version was much bitchier.GIN1138 said:Bitchy hit piece from TSE for a Saturday morning.
Good morning PB.
'It is so woke to complain about tactical voting. Kemi needs to stop being such a snowflake.'
To my innocent ears that sounded very antisemitic.0 -
Not convinced about this - wouldn’t immediately associate Jewish with darkness/night. More an allusion to his Romanian heritage.TheScreamingEagles said:
The thing for me that is truly shocking is that Ann Widdecombe made that comment about a Jewish man.StillWaters said:
Golly gosh, that would have been a shocking thing to writeTheScreamingEagles said:
See, I did think about saying 'There's something about the night about Kemi Badenoch badmouthing James Cleverly because she's worrying about not making the final two'StillWaters said:
I don’t know… comparing Kemi favourably to something that is white… that’s a bit woke isn’t it?TheScreamingEagles said:
The first version was much bitchier.GIN1138 said:Bitchy hit piece from TSE for a Saturday morning.
Good morning PB.
'It is so woke to complain about tactical voting. Kemi needs to stop being such a snowflake.'
To my innocent ears that sounded very antisemitic.
Now Labour’s Fagin posters were - and still are - a stain on them1 -
Just elect a leader and get on with realising they are very poor and then get on with replacing them...Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it3 -
The race is so close as the first round shows, because there is nobody head and shoulders above the rest in a field of political pygmies.No_Offence_Alan said:I think the race is so close, as the first round shows, that no candidate has enough spare votes to allow their supporters to indulge in tactical voting. I suspect MPs are actually just voting for the candidate they prefer, but where's the story in that?
2 -
Anyhoo, where do Patel's votes go this week?
I had her down as "right wing but realistic"; which bit of that is more important to her supporters?0 -
If Robert Jenrick is elected, the 'them' being replaced will be the party as a whole, and the replacers will be the Liberal Democrats.MarqueeMark said:
Just elect a leader and get on with realising they are very poor and then get on with replacing them...Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it5 -
I get the impression that Badenoch believes she deserves the leadership, and is working backwards from that conclusion.6
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I'm loving every minute of it. It involves lots of ballots — what's not to like. 😊Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it4 -
Mr. B, " I get the impression that Badenoch believes she deserves the leadership, and is working backwards from that conclusion. "
That's a posteriori thinking, used by the religious. And also by others in many ways. If someone has a cause they just believe it's inherently right then hunt for evidence to support the conclusion rather than assessing evidence to come to a conclusion.1 -
Emblematic of long-Johnson. Johnson vigorously stirred the dregs to the top and out popped Jenrick.MarqueeMark said:
Just elect a leader and get on with realising they are very poor and then get on with replacing them...Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it
Tugsy is ok if he drops the faux right wing rhetoric.0 -
Nah, they will cycle through until they find a leader that has an effective voice and presence. But they aren't on that list offered up this time.ydoethur said:
If Robert Jenrick is elected, the 'them' being replaced will be the party as a whole, and the replacers will be the Liberal Democrats.MarqueeMark said:
Just elect a leader and get on with realising they are very poor and then get on with replacing them...Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it0 -
Ukraine has hit a Russian ammunition warehouse filled with North Korean missiles.
Shame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZOb2maZH6U&ab_channel=Kanal136 -
Your post is now precised and spell checked.Andy_JS said:
It involves lots of b*ll*cks. 😊Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it
0 -
So you're saying the current options on offer have something of the shite about them?MarqueeMark said:
Nah, they will cycle through until they find a leader that has an effective voice and presence. But they aren't on that list offered up this time.ydoethur said:
If Robert Jenrick is elected, the 'them' being replaced will be the party as a whole, and the replacers will be the Liberal Democrats.MarqueeMark said:
Just elect a leader and get on with realising they are very poor and then get on with replacing them...Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it4 -
"Right wing but realistic" is presumably why Patel doesn't have many votes and was the first to be pushed outStuartinromford said:Anyhoo, where do Patel's votes go this week?
I had her down as "right wing but realistic"; which bit of that is more important to her supporters?1 -
Maybe.MarqueeMark said:
Nah, they will cycle through until they find a leader that has an effective voice and presence. But they aren't on that list offered up this time.ydoethur said:
If Robert Jenrick is elected, the 'them' being replaced will be the party as a whole, and the replacers will be the Liberal Democrats.MarqueeMark said:
Just elect a leader and get on with realising they are very poor and then get on with replacing them...Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it
Cleverly is probably the best option on the menu- though Patel might have been able to do the Michael Howard thing. But the succession planning has been awful, mostly because the Conservatives have burnt through a couple of generations of potential talent in the last five years.
And yes, there probably is another effective Conservative leader out there, they just don't know it yet. Heck, they might not even be an MP yet. Whether there will be a meaningful Conservative party from them to lead is another matter. There should be, but it won't take that much bad luck/judgement for a tumble in third party irrelevance.0 -
The Hunt is on for a serious leader.3
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Good morning everyone.
I've had another little nibble, laying Kemi.
Several interesting FPTs that I missed:
Speaking as an NT life member since just post-University, I don't see how this change undermines catering to all members. That is reflecting social trends, and compared to all of our political parties (for example), and the Telegraph readership, the National Trust has a good age profile, with an average membership age somewhere in the mid-40s. Attention needs to paid to all groups, not just near pensioners and older.StillWaters said:
But why do they need a plan? Surely you just cater to all customers and stock what sells?DecrepiterJohnL said:
From the story link:-Taz said:
Although they like their money.Cookie said:
The idea is that half the food in the cafes will be vegan. The unsold half, presumably. Presumably because they hate their customers.turbotubbs said:
Is half vegan a bit like half virgin?Eabhal said:
It's sad that I see that URL and immediately assume it's nonsense. I hope the Times doesn't go that way.Cookie said:While we're on about clickbaity-yet-seemingly-true stories in the headlines, in further evidence that they hate the British in general and their customers in particular, National Trust cafes to go half-vegan:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/
National Trust catering is already about 40 per cent plant-based nationally, and the charity said it could increase to 50 per cent within two years if the resolution is passed, while keeping dairy, eggs and meat on the menu.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/ (£££)
Not such a big move, then, from 40 to 50 per cent.
I don't even see the Telegraph showing that the number of meat etc dishes will be reduced in any signficant way; they assume it's a zero sum game. Clearly the customers and marketing and product quality need to match. I'd be concerned if it goes much higher - say to 70-80%.
NT need to keep up with their customers, and there are plenty of things to be addressed. There are certain advantages to reducing the numbers of cattle, such as increased accessibility being possible by the removal of cattle-grids (there are alternative strategies).
NT properties are far too focused on "drive here and walk around" by assumed culture; my local NT rural estate has 175k people within 5 miles who could be walking (or wheeling or cycling) there, and would be likely repeat visitors; but it is not seriously addressed. The focus has been more heavily on tourists. And 25% of adults do not, or cannot, have a driving licence; that's a lot of lost potential members. They are starting to address that.
Reading the Telegraph piece and preceding articles they have published puffing, for example, the "Restore Trust" campaign group, I'd say it's just another element in their culture war, and a farmer is a useful walk-on cameo.
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It's Mordaunt-ing than that. The best candidate isn't even in Parliament at present.Jonathan said:The Hunt is on for a serious leader.
2 -
I hope that the Conservative Party can restore itself to sanity and good health. The country benefits from all decent parties being decent.Stuartinromford said:
Maybe.MarqueeMark said:
Nah, they will cycle through until they find a leader that has an effective voice and presence. But they aren't on that list offered up this time.ydoethur said:
If Robert Jenrick is elected, the 'them' being replaced will be the party as a whole, and the replacers will be the Liberal Democrats.MarqueeMark said:
Just elect a leader and get on with realising they are very poor and then get on with replacing them...Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it
Cleverly is probably the best option on the menu- though Patel might have been able to do the Michael Howard thing. But the succession planning has been awful, mostly because the Conservatives have burnt through a couple of generations of potential talent in the last five years.
And yes, there probably is another effective Conservative leader out there, they just don't know it yet. Heck, they might not even be an MP yet. Whether there will be a meaningful Conservative party from them to lead is another matter. There should be, but it won't take that much bad luck/judgement for a tumble in third party irrelevance.
Of the remaining candidates I look at Stride and remember the guy grifting away during the election campaign, literally delivering the most absurd laughable spin lines and trying to insist he and they were serious. Sorry mate, no. Tugenhat seems to have grafted away in the background out of view, had a good reputation but has soiled himself prostrate before the membership. No.
That leaves Jenrick, Badenoch and Cleverley. The latter is the least worst option by a considerable distance. Still a toad, but not as reprehensible a toad as Jenrick is. And Badenoch? As prickly as Truss without the talent.
If they go for the wrong leader, we'll have another leadership contest before the next election. Probably. Unless they are so mad that they leave Jenrick in place despite the obvious drawbacks.5 -
Ah the Penny has dropped.Mexicanpete said:
It's Mordaunt-ing than that. The best candidate isn't even in Parliament at present.Jonathan said:The Hunt is on for a serious leader.
1 -
I’m sure that the Telegraph is pushing an agenda.MattW said:Good morning everyone.
I've had another little nibble, laying Kemi.
Several interesting FPTs that I missed:
Speaking as an NT life member since just post-University, I don't see how this change undermines catering to all members. That is reflecting social trends, and compared to all of our political parties (for example), and the Telegraph readership, the National Trust has a good age profile, with an average membership age somewhere in the mid-40s. Attention needs to paid to all groups, not just near pensioners and older.StillWaters said:
But why do they need a plan? Surely you just cater to all customers and stock what sells?DecrepiterJohnL said:
From the story link:-Taz said:
Although they like their money.Cookie said:
The idea is that half the food in the cafes will be vegan. The unsold half, presumably. Presumably because they hate their customers.turbotubbs said:
Is half vegan a bit like half virgin?Eabhal said:
It's sad that I see that URL and immediately assume it's nonsense. I hope the Times doesn't go that way.Cookie said:While we're on about clickbaity-yet-seemingly-true stories in the headlines, in further evidence that they hate the British in general and their customers in particular, National Trust cafes to go half-vegan:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/
National Trust catering is already about 40 per cent plant-based nationally, and the charity said it could increase to 50 per cent within two years if the resolution is passed, while keeping dairy, eggs and meat on the menu.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/ (£££)
Not such a big move, then, from 40 to 50 per cent.
I don't even see the Telegraph showing that the number of meat etc dishes will be reduced in any signficant way; they assume it's a zero sum game. Clearly the customers and marketing and product quality need to match. I'd be concerned if it goes much higher - say to 70-80%.
NT need to keep up with their customers, and there are plenty of things to be addressed. There are certain advantages to reducing the numbers of cattle, such as increased accessibility being possible by the removal of cattle-grids (there are alternative strategies).
NT properties are far to focused on "drive here and walk around" by assumed culture; my local NT rural estate has 175k people within 5 miles who could be walking there, and would be repeat visitors; but it is not seriously addressed. The focus has been more heavily on tourists. And 25% of adults do not, or cannot, have a driving licence.
Reading the Telegraph piece and preceding
articles they have published puffing, for
example, the "Restore Trust" campaign group, I'd say it's just another element in
their culture war, and a farmer is a useful walk-on cameo.
Generally, though, vegan food tastes (to me) less good than traditional food. Of course you have it on offer and if it sells better you adjust your stocking policies.
But it seems very odd to have a strategic objective to increase stocking of a product that some customers don’t like as much. It’s a bureaucratic mindset.
(FWIW I spend a considerable amount of time thinking about burping cows and how to manage their methane emissions)1 -
At the start line Patel seemed to me to be the most credible candidate (if one conveniently ignores her back story).RochdalePioneers said:
I hope that the Conservative Party can restore itself to sanity and good health. The country benefits from all decent parties being decent.Stuartinromford said:
Maybe.MarqueeMark said:
Nah, they will cycle through until they find a leader that has an effective voice and presence. But they aren't on that list offered up this time.ydoethur said:
If Robert Jenrick is elected, the 'them' being replaced will be the party as a whole, and the replacers will be the Liberal Democrats.MarqueeMark said:
Just elect a leader and get on with realising they are very poor and then get on with replacing them...Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it
Cleverly is probably the best option on the menu- though Patel might have been able to do the Michael Howard thing. But the succession planning has been awful, mostly because the Conservatives have burnt through a couple of generations of potential talent in the last five years.
And yes, there probably is another effective Conservative leader out there, they just don't know it yet. Heck, they might not even be an MP yet. Whether there will be a meaningful Conservative party from them to lead is another matter. There should be, but it won't take that much bad luck/judgement for a tumble in third party irrelevance.
Of the remaining candidates I look at Stride and remember the guy grifting away during the election campaign, literally delivering the most absurd laughable spin lines and trying to insist he and they were serious. Sorry mate, no. Tugenhat seems to have grafted away in the background out of view, had a good reputation but has soiled himself prostrate before the membership. No.
That leaves Jenrick, Badenoch and Cleverley. The latter is the least worst option by a considerable distance. Still a toad, but not as reprehensible a toad as Jenrick is. And Badenoch? As prickly as Truss without the talent.
If they go for the wrong leader, we'll have another leadership contest before the next election. Probably. Unless they are so mad that they leave Jenrick in place despite the obvious drawbacks.
Maybe like Starmer for Labour in 2020 the next leader is the Kinnock/ Howard candidate. Not there to win an election but appointed to steady the ship.0 -
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Christi knows what the people of Gillingham were thinking to deprive us.Jonathan said:
Ah the Penny has dropped.Mexicanpete said:
It's Mordaunt-ing than that. The best candidate isn't even in Parliament at present.Jonathan said:The Hunt is on for a serious leader.
1 -
To be clear, I won't be voting in the leadership. There is just such a collective lack of self-awareness amongst those standing. They are the problem. There is nobody there who will enthuse the public to vote for them, even if Starmer crashes and burns.
As I told my (ex)MP, the best bet is probably to put Cleverly in charge, on the basis that he will oversee a two or three year beauty parade, where some new talent can develop their own manifesto to attract the lost voters.10 -
1
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Leadership elections post defeat are interesting. Compared to the Tories now, Labour had a mountain of talent in 2010 and 2015, but in both cases contrived to pick someone ill suited to the task.
It seems to be happening to the Tories. I still don’t understand how anyone in the Tory party can possibly believe that Jenrick is the answer. Davey and Farage will be delighted.
If I had to choose from who is left Cleverly stands out as someone with a bit of wit and warmth . Stride is the safe back to the 90s candidate. Interesting in a way. Old school.
Badenoch clearly has potential star quality. She’s will grab attention and could take on Farage. However she loves herself slightly too much and her politicking is clumsy and therefore hugely risky. I imagine her abrasive style has limited appeal to blue wall Tories.
Cleverly is probably the best one unless they want to roll the dice with Kemi and the bet comes good because her abrasive style is just a persona.4 -
So vegan apples taste worse than....apples?StillWaters said:
I’m sure that the Telegraph is pushing an agenda.MattW said:Good morning everyone.
I've had another little nibble, laying Kemi.
Several interesting FPTs that I missed:
Speaking as an NT life member since just post-University, I don't see how this change undermines catering to all members. That is reflecting social trends, and compared to all of our political parties (for example), and the Telegraph readership, the National Trust has a good age profile, with an average membership age somewhere in the mid-40s. Attention needs to paid to all groups, not just near pensioners and older.StillWaters said:
But why do they need a plan? Surely you just cater to all customers and stock what sells?DecrepiterJohnL said:
From the story link:-Taz said:
Although they like their money.Cookie said:
The idea is that half the food in the cafes will be vegan. The unsold half, presumably. Presumably because they hate their customers.turbotubbs said:
Is half vegan a bit like half virgin?Eabhal said:
It's sad that I see that URL and immediately assume it's nonsense. I hope the Times doesn't go that way.Cookie said:While we're on about clickbaity-yet-seemingly-true stories in the headlines, in further evidence that they hate the British in general and their customers in particular, National Trust cafes to go half-vegan:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/
National Trust catering is already about 40 per cent plant-based nationally, and the charity said it could increase to 50 per cent within two years if the resolution is passed, while keeping dairy, eggs and meat on the menu.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/ (£££)
Not such a big move, then, from 40 to 50 per cent.
I don't even see the Telegraph showing that the number of meat etc dishes will be reduced in any signficant way; they assume it's a zero sum game. Clearly the customers and marketing and product quality need to match. I'd be concerned if it goes much higher - say to 70-80%.
NT need to keep up with their customers, and there are plenty of things to be addressed. There are certain advantages to reducing the numbers of cattle, such as increased accessibility being possible by the removal of cattle-grids (there are alternative strategies).
NT properties are far to focused on "drive here and walk around" by assumed culture; my local NT rural estate has 175k people within 5 miles who could be walking there, and would be repeat visitors; but it is not seriously addressed. The focus has been more heavily on tourists. And 25% of adults do not, or cannot, have a driving licence.
Reading the Telegraph piece and preceding
articles they have published puffing, for
example, the "Restore Trust" campaign group, I'd say it's just another element in
their culture war, and a farmer is a useful walk-on cameo.
Generally, though, vegan food tastes (to me) less good than traditional food. Of course you have it on offer and if it sells better you adjust your stocking policies.
But it seems very odd to have a strategic objective to increase stocking of a product that some customers don’t like as much. It’s a bureaucratic mindset.
(FWIW I spend a considerable amount of time thinking about burping cows and how to manage their methane emissions)
Seriously, mention the word vegan,and people lose their shit over it.
5 -
Steadying the ship would be Cleverly. Another thing going for him is a much better track record than the others in government. He got through the Home Office graveyard gig more or less unscathed. While none of these candidates is likely to be PM the possiblity you might is the reason why you do this. Cleverly is the most plausible prime minister.Mexicanpete said:
At the start line Patel seemed to me to be the most credible candidate (if one conveniently ignores her back story).RochdalePioneers said:
I hope that the Conservative Party can restore itself to sanity and good health. The country benefits from all decent parties being decent.Stuartinromford said:
Maybe.MarqueeMark said:
Nah, they will cycle through until they find a leader that has an effective voice and presence. But they aren't on that list offered up this time.ydoethur said:
If Robert Jenrick is elected, the 'them' being replaced will be the party as a whole, and the replacers will be the Liberal Democrats.MarqueeMark said:
Just elect a leader and get on with realising they are very poor and then get on with replacing them...Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it
Cleverly is probably the best option on the menu- though Patel might have been able to do the Michael Howard thing. But the succession planning has been awful, mostly because the Conservatives have burnt through a couple of generations of potential talent in the last five years.
And yes, there probably is another effective Conservative leader out there, they just don't know it yet. Heck, they might not even be an MP yet. Whether there will be a meaningful Conservative party from them to lead is another matter. There should be, but it won't take that much bad luck/judgement for a tumble in third party irrelevance.
Of the remaining candidates I look at Stride and remember the guy grifting away during the election campaign, literally delivering the most absurd laughable spin lines and trying to insist he and they were serious. Sorry mate, no. Tugenhat seems to have grafted away in the background out of view, had a good reputation but has soiled himself prostrate before the membership. No.
That leaves Jenrick, Badenoch and Cleverley. The latter is the least worst option by a considerable distance. Still a toad, but not as reprehensible a toad as Jenrick is. And Badenoch? As prickly as Truss without the talent.
If they go for the wrong leader, we'll have another leadership contest before the next election. Probably. Unless they are so mad that they leave Jenrick in place despite the obvious drawbacks.
Maybe like Starmer for Labour in 2020 the next leader is the Kinnock/ Howard candidate. Not there to win an election but appointed to steady the ship.4 -
On that latter point, isn't the truth that the party doesn't understand - or even accept - that it has lost the voters? On the outside I look at the contest and sit agog at the complete lack of self-awareness. Its not just that you got demolished, its *why* you got demolished.MarqueeMark said:To be clear, I won't be voting in the leadership. There is just such a collective lack of self-awareness amongst those standing. They are the problem. There is nobody there who will enthuse the public to vote for them, even if Starmer crashes and burns.
As I told my (ex)MP, the best bet is probably to put Cleverly in charge, on the basis that he will oversee a two or three year beauty parade, where some new talent can develop their own manifesto to attract the lost voters.
If the Tories want to return to Conservatism - sound finance, pro business, internationalist - then Labour are there begging to be attacked. But instead of that, there seems to be this desperate push to go further down the rabbit hole. The rabbit hole that got you first hated and then demolished.
I don't get it.2 -
Mr. Stopper, I remember hearing about halal bread once, which did make me wonder what bread wouldn't qualify and if there's some sort of porkbread or hambread I didn't know about.0
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Labour and the Lib Dem’s are currently more conservative in the traditional , sound money pragmatist, patriotic sense than the Conservatives, which is a problem for them. It’s also a problem for Labour and the LibDems as expectation for change mount.RochdalePioneers said:
On that latter point, isn't the truth that the party doesn't understand - or even accept - that it has lost the voters? On the outside I look at the contest and sit agog at the complete lack of self-awareness. Its not just that you got demolished, its *why* you got demolished.MarqueeMark said:To be clear, I won't be voting in the leadership. There is just such a collective lack of self-awareness amongst those standing. They are the problem. There is nobody there who will enthuse the public to vote for them, even if Starmer crashes and burns.
As I told my (ex)MP, the best bet is probably to put Cleverly in charge, on the basis that he will oversee a two or three year beauty parade, where some new talent can develop their own manifesto to attract the lost voters.
If the Tories want to return to Conservatism - sound finance, pro business, internationalist - then Labour are there begging to be attacked. But instead of that, there seems to be this desperate push to go further down the rabbit hole. The rabbit hole that got you first hated and then demolished.
I don't get it.
Many Tories seem to want to be right wing radicals, conservative in name only1 -
You made me look.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Stopper, I remember hearing about halal bread once, which did make me wonder what bread wouldn't qualify and if there's some sort of porkbread or hambread I didn't know about.
Sounds delicious actually. No doubt numerous posts revealing it was invented in 1998 to follow.
https://www.theitaliangardenproject.com/blog/a-new-york-treat-pane-con-ciccioli1 -
Nothing important in any possible tactics. If Kemi has the real and wholehearted support of 41 MPs she will be on the final ballot and if she doesn't, she should not be there.
Tory MPs are small in number and (I suspect) about the inflict a major disaster on their party, but collectively there is nothing the 80 can do to any group of 41 to keep the '41 group' candidate off the cup final.0 -
Presumably something like this, which I’ve made a few times and is tremendous, I have his book on my IPad.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Stopper, I remember hearing about halal bread once, which did make me wonder what bread wouldn't qualify and if there's some sort of porkbread or hambread I didn't know about.
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/33280/pain-au-bacon-ken-forkish0 -
He's the one I really wished was.TimS said:
I don’t think Hunt’s in the running.Jonathan said:The Hunt is on for a serious leader.
I don't buy the stuff about him not appealing to Reform; I think he'd have made a solid and serious Conservative offer on that, and he'd be great at fighting Labour on the economy and winning back LD seats.4 -
Human nature.RochdalePioneers said:
On that latter point, isn't the truth that the party doesn't understand - or even accept - that it has lost the voters? On the outside I look at the contest and sit agog at the complete lack of self-awareness. Its not just that you got demolished, its *why* you got demolished.MarqueeMark said:To be clear, I won't be voting in the leadership. There is just such a collective lack of self-awareness amongst those standing. They are the problem. There is nobody there who will enthuse the public to vote for them, even if Starmer crashes and burns.
As I told my (ex)MP, the best bet is probably to put Cleverly in charge, on the basis that he will oversee a two or three year beauty parade, where some new talent can develop their own manifesto to attract the lost voters.
If the Tories want to return to Conservatism - sound finance, pro business, internationalist - then Labour are there begging to be attacked. But instead of that, there seems to be this desperate push to go further down the rabbit hole. The rabbit hole that got you first hated and then demolished.
I don't get it.
To admit "we got an unparalleled tonking, despite our opponent being the textbook definition of "adequate but uninspiring" and it was deserved because we were that awful" requires a lot of honesty. Few of us possess that.
Much easier to think "one more heave" and draw fantasy arrows on the battle plan. (See "we'll spend a couple of years reabsorbing Reform, then go for the not currently blue wall".)
In recent cycles, it has taken multiple defeats for Red or Blue to act on the message from the electorate. Partly because each defeat gets harder to ignore. But also because it means that the "we" becomes a "they", which is much easier to handle objectively.2 -
Bacon bread is definitely a thing.Theuniondivvie said:
You made me look.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Stopper, I remember hearing about halal bread once, which did make me wonder what bread wouldn't qualify and if there's some sort of porkbread or hambread I didn't know about.
Sounds delicious actually. No doubt numerous posts revealing it was invented in 1998 to follow.
https://www.theitaliangardenproject.com/blog/a-new-york-treat-pane-con-ciccioli
And lard can be used in bread recipes (though rare in the UK).
But it actually makes more sense than putting a "suitable for vegetarians" mark on a carton of pure orange juice.0 -
They should look at the Lords for a Major figure.Omnium said:
Christi knows what the people of Gillingham were thinking to deprive us.Jonathan said:
Ah the Penny has dropped.Mexicanpete said:
It's Mordaunt-ing than that. The best candidate isn't even in Parliament at present.Jonathan said:The Hunt is on for a serious leader.
0 -
Conservatism isn't internationalist; that's a Labour/LD philosophy.RochdalePioneers said:
On that latter point, isn't the truth that the party doesn't understand - or even accept - that it has lost the voters? On the outside I look at the contest and sit agog at the complete lack of self-awareness. Its not just that you got demolished, its *why* you got demolished.MarqueeMark said:To be clear, I won't be voting in the leadership. There is just such a collective lack of self-awareness amongst those standing. They are the problem. There is nobody there who will enthuse the public to vote for them, even if Starmer crashes and burns.
As I told my (ex)MP, the best bet is probably to put Cleverly in charge, on the basis that he will oversee a two or three year beauty parade, where some new talent can develop their own manifesto to attract the lost voters.
If the Tories want to return to Conservatism - sound finance, pro business, internationalist - then Labour are there begging to be attacked. But instead of that, there seems to be this desperate push to go further down the rabbit hole. The rabbit hole that got you first hated and then demolished.
I don't get it.
It isn't "nationalist" either - or isolationist - it's about constructively engaging with other nations with the British national interest at heart and robustly defending those interests.2 -
Hunt won in 2024 in a seat he really should have lost. He knows a few things.Casino_Royale said:
He's the one I really wished was.TimS said:
I don’t think Hunt’s in the running.Jonathan said:The Hunt is on for a serious leader.
I don't buy the stuff about him not appealing to Reform; I think he'd have made a solid and serious Conservative offer on that, and he'd be great at fighting Labour on the economy and winning back LD seats.
That alone should qualify him1 -
Yes, I think so too, though they may not have known how even the votes were.No_Offence_Alan said:I think the race is so close, as the first round shows, that no candidate has enough spare votes to allow their supporters to indulge in tactical voting. I suspect MPs are actually just voting for the candidate they prefer, but where's the story in that?
I suspect the reason that many MPs of the Cleverly vote didn't declare is that they are keeping their powder dry to declare in later rounds and finish on the winning side.1 -
Thanks very much.Mexicanpete said:
Your post is now precised and spell checked.Andy_JS said:
It involves lots of b*ll*cks. 😊Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
The whole conservative leadership race is a complete switch off for me
Just elect a leader and get on with it0 -
Labour moves to defend Wokery in schools, and the shield the campaign to "decolonise" the curriculum:
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/labour-drops-plans-to-teach-nuanced-history-of-british-empire-s0lzx2fb00 -
The country and party would be in a far better place had he beaten Johnson in 2019.Casino_Royale said:
He's the one I really wished was.TimS said:
I don’t think Hunt’s in the running.Jonathan said:The Hunt is on for a serious leader.
I don't buy the stuff about him not appealing to Reform; I think he'd have made a solid and serious Conservative offer on that, and he'd be great at fighting Labour on the economy and winning back LD seats.3 -
Bless you sir that is interesting. To reciprocate, here is https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/MattW said:BTW, this is the "Population around a Point" website:
https://www.tomforth.co.uk/circlepopulations/1 -
It didn’t occur to you that you might not understand what ‘halal’ means?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Stopper, I remember hearing about halal bread once, which did make me wonder what bread wouldn't qualify and if there's some sort of porkbread or hambread I didn't know about.
0 -
If they strike anyway it'll all have been for nothing. (Joke).Casino_Royale said:Labour moves to defend Wokery in schools, and the shield the campaign to "decolonise" the curriculum:
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/labour-drops-plans-to-teach-nuanced-history-of-british-empire-s0lzx2fb00 -
This has to be one of the funniest stories in ages.
A TikTok viral “ATM Glitch” was reportedly used by thousands of people to withdraw “Free money” from Chase Bank ATMs.
Unfortunately, banks and police see it rather differently. People were paying in cheques for large amounts, and withdrawing it quickly before the cheque bounced.
Err, that’s fraud and theft guys, not a “glitch”.
https://gizmodo.com/idiots-who-tried-tiktoks-viral-free-money-glitch-at-atms-are-getting-reported-for-fraud-20004958381 -
Pre-covid, the staff canteen at my global megacorp employer sold more plant-based sausage rolls than animal-based sausage rolls. It might be there is more scope here, although since I rarely eat meat, I'm not best-placed to judge. I have heard that plant-based burgers are good but too expensive, and plant-based milk substitutes proliferate in supermarkets.StillWaters said:
I’m sure that the Telegraph is pushing an agenda.MattW said:Good morning everyone.
I've had another little nibble, laying Kemi.
Several interesting FPTs that I missed:
Speaking as an NT life member since just post-University, I don't see how this change undermines catering to all members. That is reflecting social trends, and compared to all of our political parties (for example), and the Telegraph readership, the National Trust has a good age profile, with an average membership age somewhere in the mid-40s. Attention needs to paid to all groups, not just near pensioners and older.StillWaters said:
But why do they need a plan? Surely you just cater to all customers and stock what sells?DecrepiterJohnL said:
From the story link:-Taz said:
Although they like their money.Cookie said:
The idea is that half the food in the cafes will be vegan. The unsold half, presumably. Presumably because they hate their customers.turbotubbs said:
Is half vegan a bit like half virgin?Eabhal said:
It's sad that I see that URL and immediately assume it's nonsense. I hope the Times doesn't go that way.Cookie said:While we're on about clickbaity-yet-seemingly-true stories in the headlines, in further evidence that they hate the British in general and their customers in particular, National Trust cafes to go half-vegan:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/
National Trust catering is already about 40 per cent plant-based nationally, and the charity said it could increase to 50 per cent within two years if the resolution is passed, while keeping dairy, eggs and meat on the menu.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/ (£££)
Not such a big move, then, from 40 to 50 per cent.
I don't even see the Telegraph showing that the number of meat etc dishes will be reduced in any signficant way; they assume it's a zero sum game. Clearly the customers and marketing and product quality need to match. I'd be concerned if it goes much higher - say to 70-80%.
NT need to keep up with their customers, and there are plenty of things to be addressed. There are certain advantages to reducing the numbers of cattle, such as increased accessibility being possible by the removal of cattle-grids (there are alternative strategies).
NT properties are far to focused on "drive here and walk around" by assumed culture; my local NT rural estate has 175k people within 5 miles who could be walking there, and would be repeat visitors; but it is not seriously addressed. The focus has been more heavily on tourists. And 25% of adults do not, or cannot, have a driving licence.
Reading the Telegraph piece and preceding
articles they have published puffing, for
example, the "Restore Trust" campaign group, I'd say it's just another element in
their culture war, and a farmer is a useful walk-on cameo.
Generally, though, vegan food tastes (to me) less good than traditional food. Of course you have it on offer and if it sells better you adjust your stocking policies.
But it seems very odd to have a strategic objective to increase stocking of a product that some customers don’t like as much. It’s a bureaucratic mindset.
(FWIW I spend a considerable amount of time thinking about burping cows and how to manage their methane emissions)
So it might be that rather than dictate a universal changeover, we concentrate on what works best.1 -
Oh dear. They’ve deviated a long way from that. Part of the party’s problem. They are weak on all counts there.Casino_Royale said:
Conservatism isn't internationalist; that's a Labour/LD philosophy.RochdalePioneers said:
On that latter point, isn't the truth that the party doesn't understand - or even accept - that it has lost the voters? On the outside I look at the contest and sit agog at the complete lack of self-awareness. Its not just that you got demolished, its *why* you got demolished.MarqueeMark said:To be clear, I won't be voting in the leadership. There is just such a collective lack of self-awareness amongst those standing. They are the problem. There is nobody there who will enthuse the public to vote for them, even if Starmer crashes and burns.
As I told my (ex)MP, the best bet is probably to put Cleverly in charge, on the basis that he will oversee a two or three year beauty parade, where some new talent can develop their own manifesto to attract the lost voters.
If the Tories want to return to Conservatism - sound finance, pro business, internationalist - then Labour are there begging to be attacked. But instead of that, there seems to be this desperate push to go further down the rabbit hole. The rabbit hole that got you first hated and then demolished.
I don't get it.
It isn't "nationalist" either - or isolationist - it's about constructively engaging with other nations with the British national interest at heart and robustly defending those interests.0 -
hey, does anybody want to see four moored nuclear subs because we don't know how to decommission them?
Maitland Road, Rosyth: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4T5aP7mqy6DN5u7A81 -
Agreed. I rmember when my church was thinking of allowing part of the premises to be used by a couple that wanted to run a vegan coffee shop. They brought some cakes along to one meeting which were lovely. One church member point blank refused to even try them because they were vegan.twistedfirestopper3 said:
So vegan apples taste worse than....apples?StillWaters said:
I’m sure that the Telegraph is pushing an agenda.MattW said:Good morning everyone.
I've had another little nibble, laying Kemi.
Several interesting FPTs that I missed:
Speaking as an NT life member since just post-University, I don't see how this change undermines catering to all members. That is reflecting social trends, and compared to all of our political parties (for example), and the Telegraph readership, the National Trust has a good age profile, with an average membership age somewhere in the mid-40s. Attention needs to paid to all groups, not just near pensioners and older.StillWaters said:
But why do they need a plan? Surely you just cater to all customers and stock what sells?DecrepiterJohnL said:
From the story link:-Taz said:
Although they like their money.Cookie said:
The idea is that half the food in the cafes will be vegan. The unsold half, presumably. Presumably because they hate their customers.turbotubbs said:
Is half vegan a bit like half virgin?Eabhal said:
It's sad that I see that URL and immediately assume it's nonsense. I hope the Times doesn't go that way.Cookie said:While we're on about clickbaity-yet-seemingly-true stories in the headlines, in further evidence that they hate the British in general and their customers in particular, National Trust cafes to go half-vegan:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/
National Trust catering is already about 40 per cent plant-based nationally, and the charity said it could increase to 50 per cent within two years if the resolution is passed, while keeping dairy, eggs and meat on the menu.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/ (£££)
Not such a big move, then, from 40 to 50 per cent.
I don't even see the Telegraph showing that the number of meat etc dishes will be reduced in any signficant way; they assume it's a zero sum game. Clearly the customers and marketing and product quality need to match. I'd be concerned if it goes much higher - say to 70-80%.
NT need to keep up with their customers, and there are plenty of things to be addressed. There are certain advantages to reducing the numbers of cattle, such as increased accessibility being possible by the removal of cattle-grids (there are alternative strategies).
NT properties are far to focused on "drive here and walk around" by assumed culture; my local NT rural estate has 175k people within 5 miles who could be walking there, and would be repeat visitors; but it is not seriously addressed. The focus has been more heavily on tourists. And 25% of adults do not, or cannot, have a driving licence.
Reading the Telegraph piece and preceding
articles they have published puffing, for
example, the "Restore Trust" campaign group, I'd say it's just another element in
their culture war, and a farmer is a useful walk-on cameo.
Generally, though, vegan food tastes (to me) less good than traditional food. Of course you have it on offer and if it sells better you adjust your stocking policies.
But it seems very odd to have a strategic objective to increase stocking of a product that some customers don’t like as much. It’s a bureaucratic mindset.
(FWIW I spend a considerable amount of time thinking about burping cows and how to manage their methane emissions)
Seriously, mention the word vegan,and people lose their shit over it.1 -
Has anyone actually asked Trump if he intends to appoint either of his idiot sons to administration posts ?
‘A huge mistake’: Trump’s crypto allies cringe over family’s startup
The crypto venture is attracting what appear to be hacks and attempted scams ahead of its launch.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/06/trump-family-crypto-startup-00177566
0 -
One of those irregular adjectives it seems. I am nuanced, you are woke, they are baffled what it's all about.Casino_Royale said:Labour moves to defend Wokery in schools, and the shield the campaign to "decolonise" the curriculum:
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/labour-drops-plans-to-teach-nuanced-history-of-british-empire-s0lzx2fb01 -
He’s already appointed his daughter in law and JD Vance on the basis of a very close relationship with Don Jr.Nigelb said:Has anyone actually asked Trump if he intends to appoint either of his idiot sons to administration posts ?
‘A huge mistake’: Trump’s crypto allies cringe over family’s startup
The crypto venture is attracting what appear to be hacks and attempted scams ahead of its launch.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/06/trump-family-crypto-startup-00177566
Why should his actual sons be denied?0 -
Hunt was very lucky in that the big issue in his constituency (a dodgy contaminated village water supply) was fixed 2 days before the election. That is probably what won it for him..Jonathan said:
Hunt won in 2024 in a seat he really should have lost. He knows a few things.Casino_Royale said:
He's the one I really wished was.TimS said:
I don’t think Hunt’s in the running.Jonathan said:The Hunt is on for a serious leader.
I don't buy the stuff about him not appealing to Reform; I think he'd have made a solid and serious Conservative offer on that, and he'd be great at fighting Labour on the economy and winning back LD seats.
That alone should qualify him0 -
I quite like Jacob Rees Mogg's idea (if it was him) delivered in the Liz Truss blue sky thinking session that we could plug a nuclear submarine into the grid and get free power.viewcode said:hey, does anybody want to see four moored nuclear subs because we don't know how to decommission them?
Maitland Road, Rosyth: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4T5aP7mqy6DN5u7A8
I have no idea whether it would work, perhaps someone with greater nuclear knowledge than myself (almost everyone here) could opine.1 -
This easily must be one of the biggest unforced errors a Chancellor has made so early in their time in No. 11 for a very very long time:
Labour MP: “It hasn’t even been thought through properly. We’re going to end up with more old people in hospital or care as a result, with all the costs involved in that,”
A third Labour MP who represents a marginal seat said they had received about 200 emails on the issue, many of them along the lines of: “I’ve just voted Labour for the first time but never again”
Labour ministers reveal grave concerns about winter fuel payment cut
Frontbenchers say they have had string of complaints from constituents and policy ‘won’t be worth the political hit’
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/sep/07/labour-ministers-reveal-grave-concerns-about-winter-fuel-payment-cut2 -
I'd see it as being from the same tradition as the people who gave us TheyWorkForYou and WhatDoTheyKnow.viewcode said:
Bless you sir that is interesting. To reciprocate, here is https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/MattW said:BTW, this is the "Population around a Point" website:
https://www.tomforth.co.uk/circlepopulations/
My only caveat would be to run a couple of sanity checks to make sure you trust the results, as we do not have immediate visibility of the quality of the underlying data, unless it is in the website somewhere else. But that's a standard check we all do anyway, just as we all read the article behind a tweeted headline
. It seems to be about right in my area.
Thanks for the link in your reply.1 -
It's a bit naive from Kem's lot.
Everyone knows that backbench tory MPs are the most sophisticated electorate in the world when it comes to leadership voting.
1 -
Vegans refuse to try bacon sandwiches - they can hardly object when the opposite is true. I have a friend with a coffee shop who makes great vegan bakery - I always ask her what she has with eggs and milk and butter in and buy that because those are going to be better, with less crappy fake ingredients.prh47bridge said:
Agreed. I rmember when my church was thinking of allowing part of the premises to be used by a couple that wanted to run a vegan coffee shop. They brought some cakes along to one meeting which were lovely. One church member point blank refused to even try them because they were vegan.twistedfirestopper3 said:
So vegan apples taste worse than....apples?StillWaters said:
I’m sure that the Telegraph is pushing an agenda.MattW said:Good morning everyone.
I've had another little nibble, laying Kemi.
Several interesting FPTs that I missed:
Speaking as an NT life member since just post-University, I don't see how this change undermines catering to all members. That is reflecting social trends, and compared to all of our political parties (for example), and the Telegraph readership, the National Trust has a good age profile, with an average membership age somewhere in the mid-40s. Attention needs to paid to all groups, not just near pensioners and older.StillWaters said:
But why do they need a plan? Surely you just cater to all customers and stock what sells?DecrepiterJohnL said:
From the story link:-Taz said:
Although they like their money.Cookie said:
The idea is that half the food in the cafes will be vegan. The unsold half, presumably. Presumably because they hate their customers.turbotubbs said:
Is half vegan a bit like half virgin?Eabhal said:
It's sad that I see that URL and immediately assume it's nonsense. I hope the Times doesn't go that way.Cookie said:While we're on about clickbaity-yet-seemingly-true stories in the headlines, in further evidence that they hate the British in general and their customers in particular, National Trust cafes to go half-vegan:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/
National Trust catering is already about 40 per cent plant-based nationally, and the charity said it could increase to 50 per cent within two years if the resolution is passed, while keeping dairy, eggs and meat on the menu.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/ (£££)
Not such a big move, then, from 40 to 50 per cent.
I don't even see the Telegraph showing that the number of meat etc dishes will be reduced in any signficant way; they assume it's a zero sum game. Clearly the customers and marketing and product quality need to match. I'd be concerned if it goes much higher - say to 70-80%.
NT need to keep up with their customers, and there are plenty of things to be addressed. There are certain advantages to reducing the numbers of cattle, such as increased accessibility being possible by the removal of cattle-grids (there are alternative strategies).
NT properties are far to focused on "drive here and walk around" by assumed culture; my local NT rural estate has 175k people within 5 miles who could be walking there, and would be repeat visitors; but it is not seriously addressed. The focus has been more heavily on tourists. And 25% of adults do not, or cannot, have a driving licence.
Reading the Telegraph piece and preceding
articles they have published puffing, for
example, the "Restore Trust" campaign group, I'd say it's just another element in
their culture war, and a farmer is a useful walk-on cameo.
Generally, though, vegan food tastes (to me) less good than traditional food. Of course you have it on offer and if it sells better you adjust your stocking policies.
But it seems very odd to have a strategic objective to increase stocking of a product that some customers don’t like as much. It’s a bureaucratic mindset.
(FWIW I spend a considerable amount of time thinking about burping cows and how to manage their methane emissions)
Seriously, mention the word vegan,and people lose their shit over it.0 -
Not much use for the decaying ones. Mind you the ‘active’ ones aren’t much better.Luckyguy1983 said:
I quite like Jacob Rees Mogg's idea (if it was him) delivered in the Liz Truss blue sky thinking session that we could plug a nuclear submarine into the grid and get free power.viewcode said:hey, does anybody want to see four moored nuclear subs because we don't know how to decommission them?
Maitland Road, Rosyth: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4T5aP7mqy6DN5u7A8
I have no idea whether it would work, perhaps someone with greater nuclear knowledge than myself (almost everyone here) could opine.
https://x.com/navylookout/status/1832327498454950046?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q1 -
1st world problem.viewcode said:hey, does anybody want to see four moored nuclear subs because we don't know how to decommission them?
Maitland Road, Rosyth: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4T5aP7mqy6DN5u7A81 -
It's quite funny because Sunak lending Kemi votes to knock better rivals than Liz out of the members' ballot was what thrust her into the limelight in the first place.rottenborough said:It's a bit naive from Kem's lot.
Everyone knows that backbench tory MPs are the most sophisticated electorate in the world when it comes to leadership voting.0 -
did any of them go off?MarqueeMark said:Ukraine has hit a Russian ammunition warehouse filled with North Korean missiles.
Shame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZOb2maZH6U&ab_channel=Kanal130 -
I suppose it depends whether the nuclear 'bit' is depleted or whether it's the submarine itself that is knackered. Perhaps it's both.Theuniondivvie said:
Not much use for the decaying ones. Mind you the ‘active’ ones aren’t much better.Luckyguy1983 said:
I quite like Jacob Rees Mogg's idea (if it was him) delivered in the Liz Truss blue sky thinking session that we could plug a nuclear submarine into the grid and get free power.viewcode said:hey, does anybody want to see four moored nuclear subs because we don't know how to decommission them?
Maitland Road, Rosyth: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4T5aP7mqy6DN5u7A8
I have no idea whether it would work, perhaps someone with greater nuclear knowledge than myself (almost everyone here) could opine.
https://x.com/navylookout/status/1832327498454950046?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q0 -
Agreed . I’m shocked that any politician was so tone deaf to think there wouldn’t be a furore . And the sums raised are paltry. Starmer should have vetoed this move and told Reeves to find the money elsewhere . The WFA debacle has now overtaken everything . Clueless is being kind to both Reeves and Starmer . Labour need to put forward some mitigation for the WFA removal .rottenborough said:This easily must be one of the biggest unforced errors a Chancellor has made so early in their time in No. 11 for a very very long time:
Labour MP: “It hasn’t even been thought through properly. We’re going to end up with more old people in hospital or care as a result, with all the costs involved in that,”
A third Labour MP who represents a marginal seat said they had received about 200 emails on the issue, many of them along the lines of: “I’ve just voted Labour for the first time but never again”
Labour ministers reveal grave concerns about winter fuel payment cut
Frontbenchers say they have had string of complaints from constituents and policy ‘won’t be worth the political hit’
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/sep/07/labour-ministers-reveal-grave-concerns-about-winter-fuel-payment-cut1 -
The "crypto ally" quoted there is Nic Carter, who is one of the stupidest people in crypto, and there are some very stupid people in crypto.Nigelb said:Has anyone actually asked Trump if he intends to appoint either of his idiot sons to administration posts ?
‘A huge mistake’: Trump’s crypto allies cringe over family’s startup
The crypto venture is attracting what appear to be hacks and attempted scams ahead of its launch.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/06/trump-family-crypto-startup-00177566
It makes the Trump family money and loses basically zero votes. Apparently Nic is worried that embracing an obvious grift will lose support from the crypto industry, but everybody except him knows perfectly well that Trump is a scammer. The crypto industry is giving him bribes because they know he can be bribed.0 -
Indeed. Families are a vital market both today and for the future - and overlap with the grandparents taking their grandweans out.MattW said:Good morning everyone.
I've had another little nibble, laying Kemi.
Several interesting FPTs that I missed:
Speaking as an NT life member since just post-University, I don't see how this change undermines catering to all members. That is reflecting social trends, and compared to all of our political parties (for example), and the Telegraph readership, the National Trust has a good age profile, with an average membership age somewhere in the mid-40s. Attention needs to paid to all groups, not just near pensioners and older.StillWaters said:
But why do they need a plan? Surely you just cater to all customers and stock what sells?DecrepiterJohnL said:
From the story link:-Taz said:
Although they like their money.Cookie said:
The idea is that half the food in the cafes will be vegan. The unsold half, presumably. Presumably because they hate their customers.turbotubbs said:
Is half vegan a bit like half virgin?Eabhal said:
It's sad that I see that URL and immediately assume it's nonsense. I hope the Times doesn't go that way.Cookie said:While we're on about clickbaity-yet-seemingly-true stories in the headlines, in further evidence that they hate the British in general and their customers in particular, National Trust cafes to go half-vegan:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/
National Trust catering is already about 40 per cent plant-based nationally, and the charity said it could increase to 50 per cent within two years if the resolution is passed, while keeping dairy, eggs and meat on the menu.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/ (£££)
Not such a big move, then, from 40 to 50 per cent.
I don't even see the Telegraph showing that the number of meat etc dishes will be reduced in any signficant way; they assume it's a zero sum game. Clearly the customers and marketing and product quality need to match. I'd be concerned if it goes much higher - say to 70-80%.
NT need to keep up with their customers, and there are plenty of things to be addressed. There are certain advantages to reducing the numbers of cattle, such as increased accessibility being possible by the removal of cattle-grids (there are alternative strategies).
NT properties are far too focused on "drive here and walk around" by assumed culture; my local NT rural estate has 175k people within 5 miles who could be walking (or wheeling or cycling) there, and would be likely repeat visitors; but it is not seriously addressed. The focus has been more heavily on tourists. And 25% of adults do not, or cannot, have a driving licence; that's a lot of lost potential members. They are starting to address that.
Reading the Telegraph piece and preceding articles they have published puffing, for example, the "Restore Trust" campaign group, I'd say it's just another element in their culture war, and a farmer is a useful walk-on cameo.
And your point leads to greater usage by locals as opposed to the single time in a lifetime visit syndrome.
I think, for me, the anti-wokists really discredited themselves when they complained - effectively - about Armstrong having been so woke 150 years ago as to buy and display an anti-slavery statue at Cragside, where it remains in the niche which Armstrong allocated to it ...0 -
I’m not the one losing my shit here…twistedfirestopper3 said:StillWaters said:
I’m sure that the Telegraph is pushing an agenda.MattW said:Good morning everyone.
I've had another little nibble, laying Kemi.
Several interesting FPTs that I missed:
Speaking as an NT life member since just post-University, I don't see how this change undermines catering to all members. That is reflecting social trends, and compared to all of our political parties (for example), and the Telegraph readership, the National Trust has a good age profile, with an average membership age somewhere in the mid-40s. Attention needs to paid to all groups, not just near pensioners and older.StillWaters said:
But why do they need a plan? Surely you just cater to all customers and stock what sells?DecrepiterJohnL said:
From the story link:-Taz said:
Although they like their money.Cookie said:
The idea is that half the food in the cafes will be vegan. The unsold half, presumably. Presumably because they hate their customers.turbotubbs said:
Is half vegan a bit like half virgin?Eabhal said:
It's sad that I see that URL and immediately assume it's nonsense. I hope the Times doesn't go that way.Cookie said:While we're on about clickbaity-yet-seemingly-true stories in the headlines, in further evidence that they hate the British in general and their customers in particular, National Trust cafes to go half-vegan:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/
National Trust catering is already about 40 per cent plant-based nationally, and the charity said it could increase to 50 per cent within two years if the resolution is passed, while keeping dairy, eggs and meat on the menu.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/ (£££)
Not such a big move, then, from 40 to 50 per cent.
I don't even see the Telegraph showing that the number of meat etc dishes will be reduced in any signficant way; they assume it's a zero sum game. Clearly the customers and marketing and product quality need to match. I'd be concerned if it goes much higher - say to 70-80%.
NT need to keep up with their customers, and there are plenty of things to be addressed. There are certain advantages to reducing the numbers of cattle, such as increased accessibility being possible by the removal of cattle-grids (there are alternative strategies).
NT properties are far to focused on "drive here and walk around" by assumed culture; my local NT rural estate has 175k people within 5 miles who could be walking there, and would be repeat visitors; but it is not seriously addressed. The focus has been more heavily on tourists. And 25% of adults do not, or cannot, have a driving licence.
Reading the Telegraph piece and preceding
articles they have published puffing, for
example, the "Restore Trust" campaign group, I'd say it's just another element in
their culture war, and a farmer is a useful walk-on cameo.
Generally, though, vegan food tastes (to me) less good than traditional food. Of course you have it on offer and if it sells better you adjust your stocking policies.
But it seems very odd to have a strategic objective to increase stocking of a product that some customers don’t like as much. It’s a bureaucratic mindset.
(FWIW I spend a considerable amount of time thinking about burping cows and how to manage their methane emissions)
So vegan apples taste worse than....apples?
Seriously, mention the word vegan,and people lose their shit over it.
0 -
It weird how wound up some people get about what other people eat. It stems from deep childhood memories and being forced to eat your greens. Anyone who likes their greens is deeply suspicious to them.StillWaters said:
I’m not the one losing my shit here…twistedfirestopper3 said:StillWaters said:
I’m sure that the Telegraph is pushing an agenda.MattW said:Good morning everyone.
I've had another little nibble, laying Kemi.
Several interesting FPTs that I missed:
Speaking as an NT life member since just post-University, I don't see how this change undermines catering to all members. That is reflecting social trends, and compared to all of our political parties (for example), and the Telegraph readership, the National Trust has a good age profile, with an average membership age somewhere in the mid-40s. Attention needs to paid to all groups, not just near pensioners and older.StillWaters said:
But why do they need a plan? Surely you just cater to all customers and stock what sells?DecrepiterJohnL said:
From the story link:-Taz said:
Although they like their money.Cookie said:
The idea is that half the food in the cafes will be vegan. The unsold half, presumably. Presumably because they hate their customers.turbotubbs said:
Is half vegan a bit like half virgin?Eabhal said:
It's sad that I see that URL and immediately assume it's nonsense. I hope the Times doesn't go that way.Cookie said:While we're on about clickbaity-yet-seemingly-true stories in the headlines, in further evidence that they hate the British in general and their customers in particular, National Trust cafes to go half-vegan:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/
National Trust catering is already about 40 per cent plant-based nationally, and the charity said it could increase to 50 per cent within two years if the resolution is passed, while keeping dairy, eggs and meat on the menu.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/ (£££)
Not such a big move, then, from 40 to 50 per cent.
I don't even see the Telegraph showing that the number of meat etc dishes will be reduced in any signficant way; they assume it's a zero sum game. Clearly the customers and marketing and product quality need to match. I'd be concerned if it goes much higher - say to 70-80%.
NT need to keep up with their customers, and there are plenty of things to be addressed. There are certain advantages to reducing the numbers of cattle, such as increased accessibility being possible by the removal of cattle-grids (there are alternative strategies).
NT properties are far to focused on "drive here and walk around" by assumed culture; my local NT rural estate has 175k people within 5 miles who could be walking there, and would be repeat visitors; but it is not seriously addressed. The focus has been more heavily on tourists. And 25% of adults do not, or cannot, have a driving licence.
Reading the Telegraph piece and preceding
articles they have published puffing, for
example, the "Restore Trust" campaign group, I'd say it's just another element in
their culture war, and a farmer is a useful walk-on cameo.
Generally, though, vegan food tastes (to me) less good than traditional food. Of course you have it on offer and if it sells better you adjust your stocking policies.
But it seems very odd to have a strategic objective to increase stocking of a product that some customers don’t like as much. It’s a bureaucratic mindset.
(FWIW I spend a considerable amount of time thinking about burping cows and how to manage their methane emissions)
So vegan apples taste worse than....apples?
Seriously, mention the word vegan,and people lose their shit over it.0 -
Whatever your views on the policy, Reeves announced it in an utterly cack-handed, tone deaf way that was always going to store up problems. Her first test and she really flubbed it.nico679 said:
Agreed . I’m shocked that any politician was so tone deaf to think there wouldn’t be a furore . And the sums raised are paltry. Starmer should have vetoed this move and told Reeves to find the money elsewhere . The WFA debacle has now overtaken everything . Clueless is being kind to both Reeves and Starmer . Labour need to put forward some mitigation for the WFA removal .rottenborough said:This easily must be one of the biggest unforced errors a Chancellor has made so early in their time in No. 11 for a very very long time:
Labour MP: “It hasn’t even been thought through properly. We’re going to end up with more old people in hospital or care as a result, with all the costs involved in that,”
A third Labour MP who represents a marginal seat said they had received about 200 emails on the issue, many of them along the lines of: “I’ve just voted Labour for the first time but never again”
Labour ministers reveal grave concerns about winter fuel payment cut
Frontbenchers say they have had string of complaints from constituents and policy ‘won’t be worth the political hit’
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/sep/07/labour-ministers-reveal-grave-concerns-about-winter-fuel-payment-cut1 -
Too clever by half. Sometimes happens.Luckyguy1983 said:
It's quite funny because Sunak lending Kemi votes to knock better rivals than Liz out of the members' ballot was what thrust her into the limelight in the first place.rottenborough said:It's a bit naive from Kem's lot.
Everyone knows that backbench tory MPs are the most sophisticated electorate in the world when it comes to leadership voting.0 -
Does this tell us that Starmer is just stepping back and letting Reeves get on with the economics because it an area in knows absolutely nothing about? Or was he involved in the decision and agreed it was a good move?nico679 said:
Agreed . I’m shocked that any politician was so tone deaf to think there wouldn’t be a furore . And the sums raised are paltry. Starmer should have vetoed this move and told Reeves to find the money elsewhere . The WFA debacle has now overtaken everything . Clueless is being kind to both Reeves and Starmer . Labour need to put forward some mitigation for the WFA removal .rottenborough said:This easily must be one of the biggest unforced errors a Chancellor has made so early in their time in No. 11 for a very very long time:
Labour MP: “It hasn’t even been thought through properly. We’re going to end up with more old people in hospital or care as a result, with all the costs involved in that,”
A third Labour MP who represents a marginal seat said they had received about 200 emails on the issue, many of them along the lines of: “I’ve just voted Labour for the first time but never again”
Labour ministers reveal grave concerns about winter fuel payment cut
Frontbenchers say they have had string of complaints from constituents and policy ‘won’t be worth the political hit’
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/sep/07/labour-ministers-reveal-grave-concerns-about-winter-fuel-payment-cut
The latter is even worse than the former.1 -
Oh yes. Yes they did, over the course of several hours. What a shame.rottenborough said:
did any of them go off?MarqueeMark said:Ukraine has hit a Russian ammunition warehouse filled with North Korean missiles.
Shame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZOb2maZH6U&ab_channel=Kanal13
https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/18322224818908039640 -
Sure. I’m all for options and responding to customer demand. (Although the unit economics of plant based burgers make me smile. Talking about burning money!)DecrepiterJohnL said:
Pre-covid, the staff canteen at my global megacorp employer sold more plant-based sausage rolls than animal-based sausage rolls. It might be there is more scope here, although since I rarely eat meat, I'm not best-placed to judge. I have heard thatStillWaters said:
I’m sure that the Telegraph is pushing an agenda.MattW said:Good morning everyone.
I've had another little nibble, laying Kemi.
Several interesting FPTs that I missed:
Speaking as an NT life member since just post-University, I don't see how this change undermines catering to all members. That is reflecting social trends, and compared to all of our political parties (for example), and the Telegraph readership, the National Trust has a good age profile, with an average membership age somewhere in the mid-40s. Attention needs to paid to all groups, not just near pensioners and older.StillWaters said:
But why do they need a plan? Surely you just cater to all customers and stock what sells?DecrepiterJohnL said:
From the story link:-Taz said:
Although they like their money.Cookie said:
The idea is that half the food in the cafes will be vegan. The unsold half, presumably. Presumably because they hate their customers.turbotubbs said:
Is half vegan a bit like half virgin?Eabhal said:
It's sad that I see that URL and immediately assume it's nonsense. I hope the Times doesn't go that way.Cookie said:While we're on about clickbaity-yet-seemingly-true stories in the headlines, in further evidence that they hate the British in general and their customers in particular, National Trust cafes to go half-vegan:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/
National Trust catering is already about 40 per cent plant-based nationally, and the charity said it could increase to 50 per cent within two years if the resolution is passed, while keeping dairy, eggs and meat on the menu.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/ (£££)
Not such a big move, then, from 40 to 50 per cent.
I don't even see the Telegraph showing that the number of meat etc dishes will be reduced in any signficant way; they assume it's a zero sum game. Clearly the customers and marketing and product quality need to match. I'd be concerned if it goes much higher - say to 70-80%.
NT need to keep up with their customers, and there are plenty of things to be addressed. There are certain advantages to reducing the numbers of cattle, such as increased accessibility being possible by the removal of cattle-grids (there are alternative strategies).
NT properties are far to focused on "drive here and walk around" by assumed culture; my local NT rural estate has 175k people within 5 miles who could be walking there, and would be repeat visitors; but it is not seriously addressed. The focus has been more heavily on tourists. And 25% of adults do not, or cannot, have a driving licence.
Reading the Telegraph piece and preceding
articles they have published puffing, for
example, the "Restore Trust" campaign group, I'd say it's just another element in
their culture war, and a farmer is a useful walk-on cameo.
Generally, though, vegan food tastes (to me) less good than traditional food. Of course you have it on offer and if it sells better you adjust your stocking policies.
But it seems very odd to have a strategic objective to increase stocking of a product that some customers don’t like as much. It’s a bureaucratic mindset.
(FWIW I spend a considerable amount of time thinking about burping cows and how to manage their methane emissions)
plant-based burgers are good but too expensive, and plant-based milk substitutes proliferate in supermarkets.
So it might be that rather than dictate a universal changeover, we concentrate on what works best.
If they sell, stock them.
But your stock policies shouldn’t be determined by a vote2 -
The Tories made a big mistake from a long term point of view in choosing Johnson over Hunt, when all the Tory MPs knew damn well that Johnson lacked the character to be PM. Hunt is a good communicator, a serious person and is rooted close to the political centre ground. They would not be in the mess they are now if they had not made the Faustian pact of electing Johnson.Casino_Royale said:
He's the one I really wished was.TimS said:
I don’t think Hunt’s in the running.Jonathan said:The Hunt is on for a serious leader.
I don't buy the stuff about him not appealing to Reform; I think he'd have made a solid and serious Conservative offer on that, and he'd be great at fighting Labour on the economy and winning back LD seats.2 -
Meh. They just got elected, the voters will have forgotten about it in 5 years. This is the right time to hose out the bad policies that are unpopular to end.nico679 said:
Agreed . I’m shocked that any politician was so tone deaf to think there wouldn’t be a furore . And the sums raised are paltry. Starmer should have vetoed this move and told Reeves to find the money elsewhere . The WFA debacle has now overtaken everything . Clueless is being kind to both Reeves and Starmer . Labour need to put forward some mitigation for the WFA removal .rottenborough said:This easily must be one of the biggest unforced errors a Chancellor has made so early in their time in No. 11 for a very very long time:
Labour MP: “It hasn’t even been thought through properly. We’re going to end up with more old people in hospital or care as a result, with all the costs involved in that,”
A third Labour MP who represents a marginal seat said they had received about 200 emails on the issue, many of them along the lines of: “I’ve just voted Labour for the first time but never again”
Labour ministers reveal grave concerns about winter fuel payment cut
Frontbenchers say they have had string of complaints from constituents and policy ‘won’t be worth the political hit’
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/sep/07/labour-ministers-reveal-grave-concerns-about-winter-fuel-payment-cut1 -
Trump would end sanctions on Russia: https://newrepublic.com/post/185652/trump-sanctions-promise-adviser-charged-russia-media0
-
Of course he would.bondegezou said:Trump would end sanctions on Russia: https://newrepublic.com/post/185652/trump-sanctions-promise-adviser-charged-russia-media
2 -
They considered it during the early years of the Troubles. When strikes threatened power production they considered parking a nukesub in Belfast and running cables thru. But there are logistic problems: the reactor doesn't have a handy output socket and getting the cables out is difficultLuckyguy1983 said:
I quite like Jacob Rees Mogg's idea (if it was him) delivered in the Liz Truss blue sky thinking session that we could plug a nuclear submarine into the grid and get free power.viewcode said:hey, does anybody want to see four moored nuclear subs because we don't know how to decommission them?
Maitland Road, Rosyth: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4T5aP7mqy6DN5u7A8
I have no idea whether it would work, perhaps someone with greater nuclear knowledge than myself (almost everyone here) could opine.
Everything in a submarine that goes in or out has to fit thru a hatch. The submarines weren't built to allow cables to be run from the hatch to the reactor and I'm not sure the cable diameter was smaller than the hatch diameter. They thought they'd have to carve a hole in the hull.
Perhaps they could have done it eventually (military move fast when needed) but the urgency went away
TLDR: subs aren't built to do this4 -
Anyone who likes broccoli is surely somebody you should be deeply suspicious of?Jonathan said:
It weird how wound up some people get about what other people eat. It stems from deep childhood memories and being forced to eat your greens. Anyone who likes their greens is deeply suspicious to them.StillWaters said:
I’m not the one losing my shit here…twistedfirestopper3 said:StillWaters said:
I’m sure that the Telegraph is pushing an agenda.MattW said:Good morning everyone.
I've had another little nibble, laying Kemi.
Several interesting FPTs that I missed:
Speaking as an NT life member since just post-University, I don't see how this change undermines catering to all members. That is reflecting social trends, and compared to all of our political parties (for example), and the Telegraph readership, the National Trust has a good age profile, with an average membership age somewhere in the mid-40s. Attention needs to paid to all groups, not just near pensioners and older.StillWaters said:
But why do they need a plan? Surely you just cater to all customers and stock what sells?DecrepiterJohnL said:
From the story link:-Taz said:
Although they like their money.Cookie said:
The idea is that half the food in the cafes will be vegan. The unsold half, presumably. Presumably because they hate their customers.turbotubbs said:
Is half vegan a bit like half virgin?Eabhal said:
It's sad that I see that URL and immediately assume it's nonsense. I hope the Times doesn't go that way.Cookie said:While we're on about clickbaity-yet-seemingly-true stories in the headlines, in further evidence that they hate the British in general and their customers in particular, National Trust cafes to go half-vegan:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/
National Trust catering is already about 40 per cent plant-based nationally, and the charity said it could increase to 50 per cent within two years if the resolution is passed, while keeping dairy, eggs and meat on the menu.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/06/national-trust-cafe-food-vegan-net-zero-hypocrisy-vote/ (£££)
Not such a big move, then, from 40 to 50 per cent.
I don't even see the Telegraph showing that the number of meat etc dishes will be reduced in any signficant way; they assume it's a zero sum game. Clearly the customers and marketing and product quality need to match. I'd be concerned if it goes much higher - say to 70-80%.
NT need to keep up with their customers, and there are plenty of things to be addressed. There are certain advantages to reducing the numbers of cattle, such as increased accessibility being possible by the removal of cattle-grids (there are alternative strategies).
NT properties are far to focused on "drive here and walk around" by assumed culture; my local NT rural estate has 175k people within 5 miles who could be walking there, and would be repeat visitors; but it is not seriously addressed. The focus has been more heavily on tourists. And 25% of adults do not, or cannot, have a driving licence.
Reading the Telegraph piece and preceding
articles they have published puffing, for
example, the "Restore Trust" campaign group, I'd say it's just another element in
their culture war, and a farmer is a useful walk-on cameo.
Generally, though, vegan food tastes (to me) less good than traditional food. Of course you have it on offer and if it sells better you adjust your stocking policies.
But it seems very odd to have a strategic objective to increase stocking of a product that some customers don’t like as much. It’s a bureaucratic mindset.
(FWIW I spend a considerable amount of time thinking about burping cows and how to manage their methane emissions)
So vegan apples taste worse than....apples?
Seriously, mention the word vegan,and people lose their shit over it.1 -
And yet some Tories who allegedly support Ukraine at the same time want a Trump win .bondegezou said:Trump would end sanctions on Russia: https://newrepublic.com/post/185652/trump-sanctions-promise-adviser-charged-russia-media
5
